Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[jakethemuss]

Fewer flights and frequent rises ahead
Adele Ferguson
June 09, 2008

AUSTRALIANS will face increased airfares and fewer flights from Qantas and Virgin Blue as the airlines either park, sell or re-route up to 10 per cent of their domestic aircraft in a bid to hold profit margins as oil prices continue to blow out.

Both airlines are hurrying to introduce new strategic programs that include restructuring their frequent flyer business and reviewing their dividend policy.

As early as tomorrow, Virgin Blue is expected to outline a series of strategic measures to alleviate pressure on earnings from fuel price rises, which jumped another 8 per cent on Friday night to a record $US139 a barrel.

This is expected to include cancelling and/or deferring some of the seven 777s Virgin Blue has on order, moving a minimum of three on to the US route and reducing domestic capacity by up to 10 per cent. It is also believed to be considering selling a stake in its loss-making frequent flyer business, Velocity.

Qantas boss Geoff Dixon announced last week that the airline had cut 5-6 per cent of its total fleet, with a report by one of Merrill Lynch's top analysts, Kevin O'Connor, estimating the cuts were equivalent to a 10 per cent reduction in capacity on the domestic market and a much smaller reduction in its international fleet.

If both airlines reduce domestic capacity by a combined 20 per cent, it will automatically lift airfares, load factors and yields.

This is not the first time customers have copped fare increases. On April 28, Qantas announced it would increase domestic and international fares by 3.5 per cent and 3 per cent. Then on May 22 it announced a further 3 per cent rise in domestic fares and 4 per cent rise in international fares.

This is happening against a backdrop of flight cancellations and strikes caused by the seemingly endless industrial relations disputes between the unions and airline over pay.

What is fascinating about the industrial relations disputes is that its toxicity is believed to have spread inside the company. The reason is simple: he Australian understands that one of the key architects of Qantas's industrial relations strategy is an outsider, former ACTU official Ian Oldmeadow, who is renowned in union circles for being confrontational.

The Australian understands that Qantas pays Oldmeadow Consulting $3 million a year to help run its industrial relations strategy, including attending important meetings with key union figures.

During calm times it makes the job of a human resources manager easy to outsource key aspects of industrial relations, but when things turn sour, as they have now, it highlights the need for internal control of the policy.

It would no doubt make the job of Qantas's human resources manager, Kevin Brown, all the harder.

Dixon confirmed that Oldmeadow had worked for many years with Qantas's internal industrial relations team on a range of issues, but said: "Any allegation of friction in the company is mischief-making, which often raises its head when we get into disagreements."

While it is taking a significant hit from the fuel prices, as well as industrial disputes, the national carrier still stands to make a $1.5 billion profit this financial year. The big question mark is over the 2009 and 2010 profits if oil prices continue to rise and strikes intensify. But the high fuel costs and the battle with unions over pay rises are only two of the challenges facing Dixon, who is due to retire next June. Qantas is also facing big capital expenditure programs to replace some of its fleet. About 25 per cent of the fleet (by seat capacity) is of 1990s vintage or older. Old planes are costly to run and inefficient.

There are estimations that Qantas's capex over the next three years will average $3.5 billion a year, which would result in a negative free cash flow over that period. This means that if it wants to keep paying a dividend, it will have to borrow the money to fund it.

Indeed, Merrill Lynch estimates that dividends will be cut from an estimated 25c in 2009 to 9c a share, and from 30c a share in 2010 to 17.5c a share.

Against a tumultuous backdrop, Qantas has confirmed it is on track to launch its "any seat" redemption option on frequent flyer points on July 1. The board will make a decision on its ownership structure in August and later in the year it is expected to outline those plans to the market.

Any seat redemption will effectively allow members to book any seat using frequent flyer points. It will take far more points than the current system but will allow members to book a seat in the same manner as a customer who pays cash.

In an accounting sense, this spending of points will be revenue in Qantas's accounts and may help reported net profit if it allows Qantas to sell more seats.

A sell-down of the frequent flyer program would see Qantas receive cash and also record a one-off accounting gain on the sale.

For this reason, the most likely scenario is to spin it off and form a strategic alliance and sell a strategic stake to American Express or the listed loyalty program company in Canada, Aeroplan, which was spun out of Air Canada a few years ago and listed in 2005. That business has now morphed into a retail operation that manages the loyalty programs of more than 60 companies. More importantly, Aeroplan now has a much bigger market capitalisation than Air Canada.

Dixon will keep a majority stake in the business, because the last thing the airline would want to do is lose control of this business, given that it has 5 million customers.

Qantas currently earns a revenue stream from selling non-flight rewards to its 5 million Qantas Frequent Flyer members. This business generates between $100 million to $175 million a year in pre-tax profit. If these earnings are re-rated as a retailer at 20 times instead of the airline's seven times, it would be worth between $2 billion and $3.5 billion.

So, for the next six months Dixon has a lot of decisions to make, including whether he stays on or retires earlier than the expected June 2009.

Sources close to Dixon say he had hoped to be gone this year, but that was before all the industrial relations problems. In the meantime, camps are forming around the three contenders: Peter Gregg, John Borghetti and Alan Joyce.

Whoever gets the job will be taking it at a time when conditions are about to get a lot tougher for Qantas: record high fuel prices, a blowout in debt from the need to replace its ageing fleet over the next decade, vigorous competition on the international sector from carriers such as Emirates. Worse still, the Qantas share price has been dropping like a stone since the private equity deal failed just over a year ago.

Source: The Australian, 9 June 2008, http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23831633-23349,00.html?from=public_rss

[Gingerbread]

Was forwarded the following public post below by a Qantas pilot mate. Seems the AIPA President would support 3% pa plus another 3% pa at risk as a solution?

"The newspaper link: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23831633-23349,00.html?from=public_rss (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23831633-23349,00.html?from=public_rss) contains a lot more than just:

'Qantas, besieged with higher oil prices and the need to replace aircraft, is likely to cut back both domestic and international flights'.

And personally I found the following sentence quite worrying:

'(Qantas) is taking a significant hit from the fuel prices, as well as industrial disputes, (but) the national carrier still stands to make a $1.5 billion profit this financial year. The big question mark is over the 2009 and 2010 profits if oil prices continue to rise, and strikes intensify.'

While the price of oil might not come back, regretfully strikes can't help but intesify unless senior management can come up with a compromise that will not necessarily cut the real wages of staff like our LAMES if the price of oil does fall significantly some time before 2009 and Qantas continues to make comfortable profits over the life of their EBA.

There are solutions which can mitigate the sky high industrial risk facing Qantas right now. However given that:

'The Australian understands that one of the key architects of Qantas's industrial relations strategy is an outsider, former ACTU official Ian Oldmeadow, who is renowned in union circles for being confrontational.'
They are unlikely to be the ones that Ian Oldmedow Consulting has been pursuing with the ALAEA thus far. The obivious answer, which by the way, is well supported by certain fund managers who hold significant share holdings in QAN is: Instead of argueing over a certain 2%, (and waiting to see if the sky falls in, or it really is blue beyond the clouds), why not agree not to pay the 2% in dispute if the clouds don't clear but pay 4% at risk should blue sky appear. Assuming QAN's executive at risk bonuses continue to pay out at 75% on average, in the long run, the LAMES should get an average of 3% pa and QAN $hareholders will smile all the way to the bank."

Hope he is on good terms with Paul and Steve. :D

[Konehead]

1. 1999 - 2008: total pay-rises for LAMEs = 17% over 10 years, or 1.7% per annum. Community standard? 37% CPI? 34% GD? 251% in 5 years, or 50% per annum.
2. A 25% drop in LAME numbers vs. a 25% increase in fleet size in the last few years. And until recently, the vast majority of aircraft were getting out on time. That equates to a massive increase in efficiency per LAME by anyone's reckoning, despite an ageing fleet requiring relatively more maintenance.
3. We were promised to be "looked after when times are good" in return for a 30 month pay freeze. Three years of record profits under their belts, and we've been "negotiating" with them for nearly 2 of those three years to get what we were promised.
4. A top tier AME is paid more than a first-licence LAME. "Here's a licence son, take on all the responsibilities of a signatory, supervise those AMEs - oh and now give me back $X bucks a week!" HELLO!
5. A QF LAME has to work for over 30 years to receive what a 1st year LAME receives at VB or J*.
6. QF revenue growth has been more than double that of wages over the last three years, despite the rapid rise in fuel costs in the same period. That equates to a Group-wide improvement in employee efficiency, or "the ability to generate revenue per man-hour".
7. "Independent financial analysts (Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, UBS, Macquarie) conservatively project that QF revenue will continue to grow at an average of approximately 7% per annum over the next three years". Therefore, a 5% payrise over the next 3 years is affordable.
8. QF earned more revenue per employee than the domestic airline sector average: $443,000 vs. $436,000.
9. A 5% wage claim wil cost $360 million IF it flows to the rest of the company's employees. Fat chance of that happening. All staff may deserve it, but few have our leverage. And so what if it did flow through? The company can't afford 0.52% of revenue to help sustain that revenue, rather than piss people off and guarantee that revenue will fall more than that from a disengaged, un-inspired, under-performing workforce?
10. QF has increased international fares by 33% in the last 9 months, so fuel costs are being largely passed onto the customer, not eroding the bottom line, and not removing QF's ability to give us a fair pay-rise.

[indamiddle]

it is starting to hit the fan. a junior manager at the airport has informed me that all the costs of delays are now being collated. this includes meal vouchers, taxis, buses, hotels. the figures are blowing budgets out of the water. these figures do not include lost revenue for punters put on other carriers to make connections nor the punters flying VB because they are losing ,or have lost, confidence in QF making flight schedules. nor have lost revenue projections yet been made of thos who will not fly QF again (until VB stuffs up). senior managers are seeing bonuses going down the drain and are starting to bitch with each other as to exactly which port is going to carry these costs. your engineering managers are devastated (non bonus) and will be horrified if the dispute continues into the next financial year (starts july). it seems your limited actions are starting to hit some hip pockets. maybe they should all blame FOG

[indamiddle]

p.s. add 'you know who' to your ignore list. it makes this thread a lot more fun to read when you can't see his posts but you get to read the replies

[acslame]

In 20 years here there hasn't been blue sky beyond the clouds.
I very much doubt that would change if our pay rise
depended on it.
On another note, does anyone know anything about an
announcement regarding our 767 fleet?

[The cougar]

Sources close to Dixon say he had hoped to be gone this year, but that was before all the industrial relations problems. In the meantime, camps are forming around the three contenders: Peter Gregg, John Borghetti and Alan Joyce.

The board has hired an outside agency to look for a new CEO. I don't think Mr Cliffard is interested in any of these 3 amigo's. They have been tainted by GD's management style and can't work together. Separate business units dont work because everyone wants to rape each other to make their department look good!

[qfcabin]

Today's Perth 747 delayed ex Syd..and cannot get back into Syd tonight pre curfew..opting to Mel from Per for overnight.

[Konehead]

I read an interesting article by David Potts in the Sunday paper titled “Pressure at the pump may turn positive.”

He made a few key points arguing that the oil price will fall:

There’s plenty of oil, producers are lifting production and OPEC insists inventories (stored oil) are rising.
There is currently a lack of spare refining capacity. When a refinery goes down for maintenance etc, speculators buy oil futures which has a disproportionate impact on the oil price.
However, more refineries are coming on-stream in Asia, increasing supply, and some Asian countries are cutting back fuel subsidies which is reducing demand.
It’s also the weakening US dollar that is partially contributing to the oil price rise, as oil contracts are priced in US dollars.
The US Federal Reserve, and other nations’ central banks, don’t like a weak US dollar, and will take action to strengthen it before it causes inflation.
A falling oil price (due to improved supply vs. demand) and a strengthening dollar would cause the speculators to dump oil futures, further decreasing the oil price.
Increases in the share prices of oil stocks on the world’s share-markets are not matching the climbing oil price. The reason: the smart money is on the oil price falling again.
So, hang tough. Let’s hope GD plays into our hands by lunging out this EBA negotiation to try to break us. The longer we play this, the more chance we’ll see oil prices start to trend down, calling his bluff.

[vortsa]

QF cabin wrote:-

Today's Perth 747 delayed ex Syd..and cannot get back into Syd tonight pre curfew..opting to Mel from Per for overnight.




Only if they have an appropriate licensed LAME on duty tonight, suggest a good time for another sickie.

[Boardman]

Twister is on the money.
Sources in Maint Watch say the way things are building, 2 weeks will see the ****e really hit the fan. We need to take no action at all. Just wait. Carry on as usual.

Nature is taking it's own course. The Companies system is it's own worst enemy.

Having said that watch your backs guys and support your mates. There are some very low lifes watching us.

Just do your job and it will come to us.

[qfcabin]

Further to the delayed Per today..it's actually an Airbus, but still on the ground in Syd ..

[blubak]

Think we are all beginning to notice the lowlife,s come to life-doesnt take long-huh.
Often they just open their mouth,say something and u think BINGO.
In normal times they would probably get away with it but now we are a lot smarter and aware and unfortunately for them,their little world is slowly falling apart.

[HARDNUT]

Konehead dont worry about the price of oil.It shouldn't effect our pay claim. The only thing that is relevant is inflation.

[Konehead]

I'm not worried about the price of oil. I just want GD's fragile argument for restricting our wage claim to collapse like a house of cards.

[acslame]

One thing QF needs to think about is that due to
all the lies told and new bad feelings between the
2 parties,
The boys may now not accept 5%!

The further down this path I go, the
less likely I am to return to being the
"model employee" I once was and
SP, I really do want MH's head.

[Take five]

I read in the BRW last week that Qantas has hedged 90% of its fuel costs to $70 a barrel this year and 33% of its fuel costs for 2009 to $90 a barrel, so what is the big deal over fuel costs affecting our meagre, (small in quantity, poor in quality) 5% wage claim.

When I joined this company the wage rate for licensed engineers was around 60% of a flight engineer's wage.

If you look on wagenet.com.au now,which lists every federal award in Australia, you will find that it has now decreased to less than 30% of an FEO's today.

Where is the fairness and equity in that.

[CTMike]

Scabwatch these are the people working overtime in cairns. Call ins, Geoff higgins, Mark Weston, Shift extensions Mark Weston, Geoff Higgins, Beal Beal , Steven Prucha, Steven has only done one. But the others are doing as many as they can to undermine fellow workers.

[Hardworker]

I agree the 5% isn't negotiable it set in concrete now, keep on plodding along guys till June 30, the changes that MH RH DM AW KM have implemented to slash budgets is finally coming back to haunt them. The reduction of manpower at the SIT, at Base and the ridiculous changes to Maintenance watch has seen the fleet become unreliable. If ever there was any doubt of trust between management and workers, it is totally dissolved. I honestly cant see anyone from any of these departments believing anything that the managers say anymore....The new Operations Managers, Nick named "Toothless Tigers" will no doubt be out to impress all the guys and to make a name for themselves....funny how these things are last minute grasps of trying to get the business back to normal...make you wonder why we bother having these so called managers....

[sickofqf]

hmmm, two days of despatch reliability of OVER 80%........

I feel demoralised....I leave you blokes to it for a few days and look what you do.............

more effort boys, you obviously aren't looking for those defects properly!!

ps, is EBY out yet ???

[The Mr Fixit]

Spanner twister, have you been to a LAME EBA Feedback meeting ?

I think you have because at the one I was at the President said quote

"Wait patiently by the river and you will see the bodies of your dead enemies float by"

unquote

It is not his, it is from a very old but distinguished book called 'The Art of War' by Sun Tzu

Someone is doing their homework

[Short_Circuit]

EBY tomorrow, maybe.

[Ngineer]

ACS LAME,
I think you are spot on the money. Asking around the crew last night (and other crews on shift), it seems that the majority of LAME's are very happy to let this action roll on slowly. And the headline 5% is no longer acceptable. I think the guy's are enjoying the big boost in moral the last few weeks more than anything, and know it will die down when this is all over.
I would vote down 5%, and would like the overtime bans and stop work meetings to continue for another 6 months at least. I have never worked so hard, and unified with my brothers. These are definately good times.
Those acting Snr's, Supervisors and DMM's trying to make a name for themselves by cutting corners and pressuring young LAME's, we know who you are, and we will remember you.

[Ngineer]

PS; to sickofqf, re 80% dispatch reliability.

I believe they call it the "dead cat bounce".......

[Hardworker]

Well I think almost all at the SIT are not working OT after shift, except for the show ponies doing trips to Queenstown and Noumea...they will be remembered..

[company_spy]

They will all be remembered. We will never forget.

[Stick'm up]

Come on guys, it's hard times with the price of fuel and all!

How about 10% for last year, (the year of record profits and more productivity than expected).

And we give in a little and take 3% for the next 2yrs?
Just to help them out in these hard times? :E :ok:

Sounds fair.
With no removal of any of the items offered in the proposal full backpay (Shift, regrade O/T etc) of course, NO EXECPTIONS!

Any profit in year 4 = CPI + 2%. Just as a sweetner so you dont have to say sorry.:( Just FOG & Team.

[Ngineer]

But we still need these quotas sorted out.

We all pay for the high price of fuel, not just Qf. The only diff is that Qf has been making more profits as the oil price has been rising (since jan 2006, our last payrise), and of course we have not.

[Boardman]

Yep, the fools doing the trips and bignoting themslves will never live it down. Wether through stupidity, being naive, scared of retibution, being bullied or plain old pushing their own cart they are now damaged goods.

If you are committed you will easily come up with a reason why you cannot do their bidding. To comply and bend over is self destructive and will not do any good as a whole.

To the guys who are basically being selfish and thinking (stupidly) that their managers will pay them back for basically being scabs, enjoy fellas the price to pay is huge.

Also, when we get our money I hope the guys who are doing the OT and trips donate their pay increase to charity. You guys don't deserve it so give it to those who do.

No OT after shift is being done in Sydney that I have heard of. CNS guys that are doing it, you guys will reap what you sow. Karma IS a bitch!

[The masked goatrider]

Its great to see so much unity and support between LAMEs. SIT no o/t. Base no o/t. Mel no o/t. Mel Hgr 23 from 26 sick on one day. Mel Dom refusing to chock 747 aircraft. So many hold items being entered day after day by supporters in Aus, Sin and Lax. Work to rule in place Adl and Per.

and u fu**ers in Cairns have 3 scum working more o/t than they have in their lives.

Is it true that one of them learnt from his father who was a $cab in 89?
Another sat and watched the asn spend $60,000 to save his brother who was on manslaughter charges after he was involved in maintenance of an aircraft that turned into a coffin.
Third thinks he is the Be al and end all of LAMEs

Just because you amigos hide up in the tropics, do not think you will be forgotten. You will all be remembered for just what you are.

[spanner90]

Price of oil goes up, airline travel costs more...

Price of oil goes up, everybody who pays for fuel in their car takes a pay cut!:ouch:

Who pays for GD's fuel? Bet he doesn't dip into his wallet, except to drag out a corporate card (that we all pay for!).

It's not just oil, the flow on means that almost every consumer goods will cost more due to increased transportation prices.

So do you think that the prices will fall when the price of oil comes down? Not a chance, the shareholders wouldn't stand for it!

[FIVECATSLAME]

A lot of the guys up there in CNS are towing the line. Three bad eggs dont make the dozen mate.

For the sake of those making the effort in CNS. I hope you all support them and I hope you all dont forget the 3 mentioned.

[Sunfish]

Gingerbread:

The obvious answer, which by the way, is well supported by certain fund managers who hold significant share holdings in QAN is: Instead of arguing over a certain 2%, (and waiting to see if the sky falls in, or it really is blue beyond the clouds), why not agree not to pay the 2% in dispute if the clouds don't clear but pay 4% at risk should blue sky appear. Assuming QAN's executive at risk bonuses continue to pay out at 75% on average, in the long run, the LAMES should get an average of 3% pa and QAN $hareholders will smile all the way to the bank."

Whoever thought this idea up is an idiot. Don't accept it.

For a start, there can be no trust, and in any case Qantas profit figures can be any number the management chooses.

Furthermore, as has already been stated elsewhere in this thread QF profits are headed South for the next three years while they borrow to pay for all these new aircraft, so the chances of receiving some "blue sky' are minimal.

But wait, there is more. For any person who calls himself a manager to push "Bonus Schemes" this way would demonstrate their incompetence. For a start, bonus schemes have historically been responsible for more industrial mayhem than pay negotiations, as any manufacturing engineer will tell you. So anyone pushing this line is either dumb or plans not to be around when the proverbial hits the fan.

As a general rule, bonus schemes can only work where the employees involved have some control over their performance - which is not the case with a maintenance organisation, nor should it ever be, since it creates an incentive not to put safety first.

On the other hand, profit sharing is another thing, and should be encouraged.

However, the rate of inflation marches on inexorably, and there is no way that compensation for it can or should be tied to performance.

[up2us]

I am really confused on this one boys/girls. Every time GD opens his trap the doom & gloom begins, especially about oil/fuel prices atm. Heres the prob,
On sunday the qf31 left syd @ 2230 (5 1/2 hrs late) with only 3 PAX on board.
Yes you read it right, 3 PAX on board, apparently most pax were put on the qf5/ BA & SQ due to the delayed QF31. Why would you put 80 tonne of fuel on board and fly empty. GD maybe you can answer this when the fedesec asks.
Any thoughts cause my head is hurting?

[wanty]

Third thinks he is the Be al and end all of LAMEs


This LAME you refer to here wouldn't be the same LAME from Melbourne who only transferred to Cairns after being constantly knocked back for a line spot in Melbourne would it ??? SC ???

[acslame]

How is the delay situation looking?
It seems that QF got a bit of a reprieve
over the weekend.
Is EBY still in the shed?
How did our international network fare?

[Orangputi]

Hi masked goatrider

Name and shame goatrider! name and shame son! :D

[The masked goatrider]

Have been advised that travel to Noumea is now a list 1 offence.

The "I am a stupid fool" excuse will no longer be valid.

[ejectx3]

Qantas braces for safety compliance shut downs
From crikey.com.au

Qantas braces for safety compliance shut downs
Ben Sandilands writes:

No-one is putting hard figures on this, but Qantas faces widespread safety compliance enforced shut downs of its inter-city services by the end of this week unless it resolves its dispute with the maintenance union.

Several dozen Boeing 767s, the back bone of the Cityflyer services, are running out of time to have defects corrected.

A spokesman for the Civil Aviation Safety Authority said this morning he knew of no arrangements to extend the legal period in which multiply defective jets can continue in service.

The painful reality for Qantas is that it is being done slowly but thoroughly by the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association which is supporting its demand for 5% pay rises rather than the 3% on offer with over time bans.

There appears to be a scab shortage.

The union members are still working, and being paid, and the airline is grinding to a halt around them.

The airline can’t find enough qualified people in management to check and sign out jets for their next scheduled flight, even if they are within a period in which defects, which may include small cabin pressure leaks as well as blocked toilets or drains, are allowed to fly unfixed.

In recent days Qantas has diverted some international 747s to routes like Sydney-Melbourne to take the pressure off the 767s. Unfortunately the 747s are hard to efficiently load and unload between short flights, compounding the frustration for travellers already displaced by fog closures at major airports.

There are unconfirmed reports of Melbourne ground engineers not trained in 747 operations refusing to handle the jet in accordance with company rules, and being docked four hours pay for refusing to engage in what is technically dismissible conduct in service a jet for which they have no qualifications.

There are complaints from travellers that the Sydney-Melbourne trip is taking up to 6-8 hours by air, totally destroying the typical day trip to do business between either.

It can be driven in 10 hours at street legal speeds with several rest stops.

Send your tips to [email protected], submit them anonymously here or SMS tips and photos to 0427 TIP OFF.
http://www.flightlevels.com/forums/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.flightlevels.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=92313)

[Talkwrench]

It is reliably rumoured that 99% of the blokes at BNE Heavy H3 have so many family activities on and so much work to do around the house that they have been completely unavailable for overtime lately...

[acslame]

Well done BNE heavy!!!
Shame the 3 fella's at the other end of QLD
can't do likewise.
PS
GO THE BLUES!!!!!!!!!!!

[The cougar]

Originally Posted by The masked goatrider http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4169702#post4169702)
Third thinks he is the Be al and end all of LAMEs

This could be the same tool tool from syd heavy, the one that kept failing sections of his 747-400 type course.

[The masked goatrider]

One usually finds that those who are incompetent in their duty as a LAME will attempt to mask that incompetence by spending as little time on the job as possible. As a consequence they spend more time in the office with the boss highlighting or making up stories about the competent LAMEs and how they are doing damage to the business by doing their jobs properly. They commonly refer to the others as troublemakers because they find things wrong that delay aircraft.

Now the managers don't know any better because they are former HR mangers, failed workshop morts and other undesirables. They decide to promote those who know about as much about maintenance as themsleves. Over time you end up with a wonderful team of dedicated Qantasized fools who are highly efficient at paddling the Hawksebury or catching teddy bears but know little about maintenance.

As time goes by the situation worsens to a point where the dedicated LAMEs who have spent 30 years plying their craft say enough is enough. The dedicated LAMEs know exactly how to repair broken aircraft but they also know exactly how to ground them for long periods of time. There is only one way to fix the problem and it starts with goodbye. Some suggested recipients of those words -

GD DC MH DH JV KM AL DH GB MS DM RH GH MW GH MS BW and AP.

Feel free to add to the list

[murrayatwell]

Can somebody please shed some light on EBY. It is still on the ground in syd. I understand it has been there for considerable time? Aren’t those Base boy's great.:ok: including our afedsec.

[Gen Y]

Good to hear almost all LAMEs throughout the ports in a united front.
Going without overtime is tough for some but the rest of us appreciate your hardship. Personally, I am confident the ALAEAs approach is the best available to us.

I think we will get what we deserve in the end.

STAND UNITED and above all MAINTAIN OUR INTEGRITY.:D

-Gen Y

[Flugbegleiter]

Here's an interesting excerpt from an article in today's SMH:

But now nothing seems to be going according to plan.
The world economy is in the grip of an oil price shock that could make those of the 1970s look like mild tremors.
Airlines will be an early casualty and already the scythes are being unsheathed across America and Europe.
Qantas unions, meanwhile, are in an uproar over continued wage restraint proposals while the company is groaning at the seams with continued flight delays and reduced service knocking some serious dents in its once seemingly unassailable consumer loyalty.
It's in tough times that only the truly strong survive. But the
problem for Dixon and his management team is that they have cried wolf several times too often. For years, they have beaten staff over the head with dire predictions of doom about Qantas and the airline industry in general. This gave them the leeway to reduce pay and conditions and improve productivity within the airline which they, rightly, argue underpins the relative financial health of Qantas compared with its international competitors.
But it also has limited the effectiveness of the message. Frankly, no one - and particularly Qantas workers - believes a word management utters.
Geoff Dixon originally was a journalist. He rose through the Qantas ranks via the marketing and communications path, and he's an expert in the art of
massaging public opinion.
But there's only so many times you can get away with it.

Source: SMH, 10 June 2008 (http://business.smh.com.au/woes-could-still-turn-up-trumps-20080609-2o12.html?page=1)

[wanty]

Frankly, no one - and particularly Qantas workers - believes a word management utters.



Couldn't help myself,just had to hilight the "key point" to the smh article.

Just in case management in their infinate wisdom, didn't pick up on it the first time around.

[AIRTIGER2]

Nice Post Sunfish.
Sure has some relevance matey..
Looks like it may be happeneing everywhere..
Patience..........

[kotoyebe]

There appears to me to be a loss of momentum over the last 4 days. Or is it the calm before the storm? Today was ugly, but it was mainly the fog.

[wanty]

Better make it a "GOOD" offer Dickson. Your gunna need it to make it over the line pal. June 30 FAST approaching.

5% MINIMUM. All back pay 19 months worth at 5%

Sign on bonuses or should I say "Sign that aircraft out" bonuses for ALL LAMES.:ok:

A MANDATORY SIDE NOTE CLAUSE FOR ACCEPTANCE OF EBA 8

Your immediate resignation and that of your cronies.:E

[Dockie]

Originally Posted by The masked goatrider http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4169702#post4169702)
Third thinks he is the Be al and end all of LAMEs

If this is the guy i'm thinking of, he's from Melb Heavy and known by everybody as FIGJAM.

[wanty]

Qantas braces for safety compliance shut downs

The painful reality for Qantas is that it is being done slowly but thoroughly by the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association

There appears to be a scab shortage.

The union members are still working, and being paid $$$$, and the airline is grinding to a halt around them.
http://www.flightlevels.com/forums/images/buttons/quote.gif (http://www.flightlevels.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=92313)


SLOWLY,SLOWLY,SLOWLY :{:{:{

Brilliant campaign ALAEA FED EXEC. Got them by the balls now fellas.:D

Isn't life grand at times.:ok:

[Ngineer]

He better come to the party with a good offer, otherwise its game over. For those that need reminding of exactly where we would be if it was easy enough to train up a LAME, here is a link (from a few years back). Look familiar?
There is no way GD or DC would be showing us any mercy right now if we were easily replaced. We should be affording them the same level of loyalty that they (management) have shown Qf employees over the last few years.
Looks like the "wolf" cry is biting GD on the buttocks.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/2004/604/31498

[wanty]

Originally Posted by The masked goatrider http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4169702#post4169702)
Third thinks he is the Be al and end all of LAMEs

If this is the guy i'm thinking of, he's from Melb Heavy and known by everybody as FIGJAM.


GOT IT IN ONE DOCKIE, WELL AT LEAST THAT IS WHO I AM THINKING IT IS ANYWAY. TICK :ok:

[Short_Circuit]

For all who have asked about EBY (which is just out of Hong Kong outsourced maintenance).

It has been on the ground in Sydney for 8 days with 70 plus holds, fuel leaks etc,
local management thundering 'IT WILL GO & YOU WILL SIGN IT OUT" type threats, the plane might fly tonight SERVICEABLE.

Just imagine if we (the LAMEs) were locked out and the scabs moved in and signed anything management wanted.

A disaster waiting to happen.

Thanks ALAEA & LAMEs for being so professional in your duties not letting the scabs & bonus driven few send broken aircraft fly and endanger the flying public.

[Hardworker]

From what I understand the last major check done in Singapore was a bare bones check to set the clock back, nothing was fixed....outsourcing what a marvelous idea, costs you 10 times as must and more.....This is exactly the same situation British Airways was 10 years ago...the fix - sack all management and bring it all back in house to put back quality into the brand name....EBY like the other 300 series aircraft were pretty reliable (apart from the el cheapo fuek qty system), use to fly to NRT as the QF21 at 2230 every night which was always a fun challenge, but normally departed without a hitch....Now look what has happened to them, it is a disgrace!
It is painful to watch a great company be destroyed by a few people with little or no qualifications, that call themselves managers. The status of the current fleet highlights managements shortfalls and lack of understanding maintenance!

[sickofqf]

In light of the apparent 'threats' being fairly easily thrown around by Atwell-H and his little puppies RH and KM et al, can I suggest we all familiarise ourselves with the phone number of CASA and the ATSB.

If you find yourselves on the end of a 'threat', veiled or otherwise, politely ask the manager to take a step back while you contact CASA, the ATSB and the ALAEA and ask them what their opinion is of the fact you are being threatened for dutifully carrying out your sworn duty as an AUSTRALIAN LICENCED ENGINEER with a licence granted by CASA...not Quanuts.

If the threat continues, or even escalates, carry through on the call to CASA and report the threat along with the threatener's name. :=:=:=

I think you'll find it's an offence punishable by jail time!!! :eek::eek::eek:


As a side note with an upbeat theme, seems a certain minor 'manager' and former assoc member at an un-named port isn't as far on the company's side as some would have expected, my sources tell me that he's only asked ame's to go the extra mile since the dispute started, saving the Lames the trouble of declining extra 'duties'. If I named him, which I won't, a lot of people would be VERY pleasantly surprised. :ok: :D:D to him!!


Sometimes support comes from unexpected places..........;)

[sickofqf]

For all who have asked about EBY (which is just out of Hong Kong outsourced maintenance).

EBY was the straw that broke the camels back in Singapore.........

Thus we are now paying a higher price to get closer to decent quality ( as good as it can be when QF send no spares!!) at HAECO.

Still, won't be as good as 245 !!!

[SHITBOY]

3% and a grade..... that's all we will get.....

[sickofqf]

3% and a grade..... that's all we will get.....

joined Jun2008, first post.......the TROLLS are back !!!!

another one to add to IGNORE !!!

[Hardworker]

Well think its past that now, its 5% no matter what they offer up. The media will roast the ALAEA and Dickson will be seen as a hero making them LAME's only take 3%
I wont vote for anything less than 5% and I believe the majority will hold the same view point...

[sickofqf]

ngineer said;
PS; to sickofqf, re 80% dispatch reliability.

I believe they call it the "dead cat bounce".......


Glad to see it is exactly that....a mere anomaly.....back to 51% today!!!

Good work chaps.......QF11 8 hours late and counting..........GREAT SUCCESS!!

[Bolty McBolt]

kotoyebe
There appears to me to be a loss of momentum over the last 4 days. Or is it the calm before the storm? Today was ugly, but it was mainly the fog

Loss of momentum. I don't think so, Last weeks "appalling" :ok: dispatch record was due the ripple effect of the 4 hour stoppage over time bans and Melbourne FOG.

I would say calm before the storm as I have just read the hold item figures in the latest ALAEA notice. This list of holds and MELs will take effect as adjacent systems start to fail and leave the aircraft with NO MEL relief :D All this as the new OPS managers are trying to micro-manage the fleets MELs to prevent this from happening but you can't get blood out of a stone. To little to late but these new OMs have to look like they are doing something……
The aircraft will be parked no parts or manpower and nobody to care.

As many have posted. Lets be patient. Well done management. Your house of cards is about to topple. Its your bed and you can lie in it.

From what I understand the check done is Singapore was a bare bones check to set the clock back, nothing was fixed

I think you find this one went to Hong Kong
Is this the A/C that was carrying an internal fuel leak defect for best part of a month running on an EA prior to its visit to an out sourced heavy maint check last month?
Base maint should be given just as much time not to fix the same defect :}

[Collando]

After 911 QF came up with the offer of a grade increases in lui of a rise in our base rate. Ok at the time but this ploy has been successfully used over the last 10 years to decrease our base rate relative to other proffessions. How many other occupations have had their base rate only increase 17% over 10 years, while house prices have tripled and cost of living doubled.

How do grade increases affect QF Lames in the long term.

Well although it seems pretty good to those LAMES already employed at QANTAS, it means that new starters come in at base rates that have changed little over time and relative to the world around us.Yes it looks good at first but you are also keeping the base rates down at the higher levels that you havent reached yet,so you shoot yourself in the foot there.
Not to mention It is screwing the AMEs, many who are your friends, that are up and coming LAMES.
This also will ultimately mean lower super for those affected as this is also only paid on base rate.

As a collective it is a short term gain but ultimately as a group and for future LAMEs and employees its a cop out.

Please focus on 5%+5%+5% and watch wage levels creep back to what they should be for everyone now and in the future

[WOLVERINES]

You are on the money cougar that is the same man. FYI he struggled on the 330 course too but learnt how to dog the blokes and suck enough ass to get himself through.We never forget but looks like he has cause the union fought for his job but i doubt they will again. bad times ahead no flights.Ass kissing cant save you forever.

[Nasty Piece of Work]

Wait patiently by the river and you will see the dead bodies of your enemies float by

or

Hit the body and the head will die

or

patience is a virtue

51% OTP - perhaps someone threw a spanner or screwdriver in the works

[chemical alli]

Bet there is some ass puckering tech service men writing EA,s and having eternal nightmares everytime the phone rings.Only so many holds atp,s ea,s before the big one.

[AEROMEDIC]

"Still, won't be as good as 245 but no doubt will be far better than the crap coming out of AVV with the 457's and the handful of ALAEA-rule-bending a-lick company heros who see nothing and sign everything:=:=:=

Hope they don't expect a jot of support when AVV gets closed down......:ugh: "


You're being a bit rich claiming this against your fellow ALAEA members at AVV.
Avalon QF and Forstaff LAME's are doing their jobs competently and are looking to support where they can.
Unfortunately, there is no action they can take legally at this time, but their EBA is stagnant too. Fed Sec says no action required presently, so their turn will come.
In the meantime, don't slag off without cause or proof.
:=:=

[wallabyvet]

As an AVV Lame I would like you to know that I havn't seen to many "Heros" down here. We are all behind the action being carried out and will support the cause to the last man. Same as everyone else I have not seen this much unity for a long time and am actually begining to enjoy going to work again. Just remember a little unity goes a long way so would suggest keeping your posts about AVV "Above the line"........Sorry, To much tree hugging on my part, wont do it again..........:ok::ok:

[wanty]

Bet there is some ass puckering tech service men writing EA,s and having eternal nightmares everytime the phone rings.Only so many holds atp,s ea,s before the big one.


Ring Ring, Ring ring.

"Hello,Mr tech service man, can you please issue me an EA to fly VXA to sydney at 14.00 today. I know we're meant to have 2 wings but one has fallen off and we have no mel relief for it. Please, please can we have that EA, we really do need it as we have a safe hand package (Kryspey cream donuts)that must arrive in Sydney by 16:00 at the latest. Thats right, there for a senior managers get together this afternoon,apparently a new bidder has been found for QF and the board really want to set a good tone for the meeting,uh hu,thats right,my local manager told me everything will be fine."

Tech servicing "Well as long as it has management approval,I don't see a problem, you'll get your EA. Just remember to tell the pilot flying to Sydney to hold the column hard over to the left and enjoy the
flight"

Bumlick engineer "Beauty, thanks for that, hey one last question though.Do you think the managers would mind if I took one of the donuts first before safe handing them to Sydney ??? "

Tech servicing " Of course they won't mind m8, they always share the company spoils.........................." :ok:

[BluIce]

To all,

for anyone with access to an Aircraft Allocations Plan.

Take notice of extended ground time in LAX as S1 checks.

Things may not always be what they seem.

Blu.

[chemical alli]

Please retract or edit your post pertaining to the workmanship of lames in avv. Every lame job kept onshore whether in avv or bne heavy keeps another member within the alaea rank and file.This is not a pissing competition gentlemen.

[Wobulator]

Yeah M8. Delete yr post :ugh:....take 10 deep breaths :zzz:....and think b4 U type.:=

[indamiddle]

what the hell is going on with the classics? 485 just arrived melper. 802permel cxxx (planned departure 1300) 485 tomorrow melper cxxx

[Boardman]

Our maint system is a mess since the new "Team" took over.

I wonder how much research went into these guys past history and performance before they were put into such critical positions?

Let's say good old MH for example.
Word from State Rail is he stuffed them up as well and is STILL on the most hated list. This is from a very reliable source, a State Rail boss.

Blew in, made a mess, then off to cause havoc at his next port of call.

Imagine going through life being hated where ever you go. You would think the penny would drop after a while.

I don't feel sorry for the guy because he seems to enjoy himself.

Maybe he had the crap beat out of him at school everyday? Hope so!

In the good old days you would take him to the Bird Bath. He would have definetely got his name on a Plague on the one in the back of H131.

A basic Juggernaut. Like a train wreck that keeps going on and on.

[NAS1801]

Blew in, made a mess, then off to cause havoc at his next port of call. What I like to call the Segull style of management..... come flying in from out of nowehere, making a lot of noise, take out of the place whatever you can get you beak on, crap all over everything making a huge mess then f#ck right off!

[Sunfish]

Please keep your cool gentlemen. I suspect that Qantas still has a few tricks up it's sleeve. One of them will be deliberate provocation - dismissing someone on the spot or suchlike - don't take the bait! ANother might well be legal action. Be careful what you say!

Be aware that even cornered rats will lash out and try to fight.

Do exactly what your Fed. Sec. says, no more, no less, and stay absolutely legal - no threats, etc.

BTW, and off topic, but the article posted by D.P. Gumby about the failed APA bid for Qantas is priceless, but I'm not going to repost the link because I think the article is untrue and libellous, and if QF Board and Management doesn't take legal action over it today, I will be surprised.

[cpiom]

and u fu**ers in Cairns have 3 scum working more o/t than they have in their lives.

Is it true that one of them learnt from his father who was a $cab in 89?
Another sat and watched the asn spend $60,000 to save his brother who was on manslaughter charges after he was involved in maintenance of an aircraft that turned into a coffin.

Not a nice attitude from a union exec member. But probably shows the union's contempt towards not only the company but also current members who don't do exactly as they are told or the individual exec members expect!!

[Sunfish]

......and right on cue, a troll appears. Add him to your ignore list. Contempt for scabs is as old as unionism, and for good reason.

[jakethemuss]

cpiom = troll

Sunfish,

The article in question is more than a month old. I would love to see Dixon attempt to spend shareholders money defending his (according to the article) failed buyout of the airline.

This year's AGM should be a cracker!

[mel applied]

Sunny, let him go. We all know what he's up to. We also know the message intended from the original post, which he quotes. We also know the reasons for that post and the history behind it.
Sorry cpiom, but you are in the minority here. If (as you allude) you know the quoted passage(s) came from an exec member then you know enough to call up said member and ask him to qualify his post. Can guess you will be put straight and sent home, tail between legs.
Please post again after you make that call.

[Annulus Filler]

Qantas Investors Key Dates:

30 June 2008.........Financial Year End
21 August 2008......Preliminary Final Result Announcement
3 September 2008...Record Date for Final Dividend
1 October 2008.......Final Dividend Payable
16 October 2008.....Annual General Meeting

[speedbirdhouse]

Qantas bosses jet off to NY for key board meet


CITY BEAT: Rebecca Urban | June 11, 2008

QANTAS might have grounded some passengers due to the mounting cost of fuel, but it clearly has no intention of doing the same to its directors.

Despite last week announcing the closure of several routes -- particularly to Japan and Southeast Asia -- the airline will hold its next board meeting in the US.

Directors, including chairman Leigh Clifford, John Schubert and Peter Cosgrove, will jet off to New York next week for what chief executive Geoff Dixon described as "the most important meeting the company's had in the past five years". So much for saving money on jet fuel.

Cheap shots aside, Qantas has some good reasons for holding the two-day meeting in the Big Apple.

Airbus executives will be flying in from Toulouse to brief directors on the delivery schedule for the two-storey A380 jets that have been delayed repeatedly due to production problems. The new fleet is supposed to arrive by August, yet rumours of further delays have apparently left many inside the Qantas camp nervous.

The board will also meet with senior executives from Boeing, who will provide an update on the program for building its new 787 Dreamliner, which is more than a year behind schedule. Qantas is Boeing's biggest customer, having ordered 65 of the new aircraft to replace its ageing fleet.

Not surprisingly, Dixon has organised a few meetings at New York's top investment banks to discuss financing options for the fleet acquisition.

He will be accompanied by his merry team of potential successors -- executive general manger John Borghetti, chief financial officer Peter Gregg and Jetstar boss Alan Joyce.

____________________________________________

.......... and with our recent record of punctuality I can only surmise that the trough feeders will all be traveling with United.

[sickofqf]

As an AVV Lame I would like you to know that I havn't seen to many "Heros" down here.


And therein lies the problem. "haven't seen too many". :ugh:

I also received a PM from one of yours which I will respond to privately which stated OT is being done at the end of the shift etc to "help pay the bills". WTF ??? :mad:

What part of OT ban don't you understand. OK, so the assoc "allowed" end of shift OT. That was done purely so that we wouldn't be docked 4 hours pay every day when they asked us to stay back! If it isn't official you cannot be docked for saying NO. getting the picture or do you really need it spelled out? :*

No OT means NO OT.....if you can't read between the lines, or choose not to so you sleep better whilst doing "enough OT to pay the bills" then ------edited------ :=

If you are Forstaff and similar applies......please NO, your sock draw is in dissaray and it needs your attention. Have no doubt, Forstaff will paint you into the same corner we are currently in and you WILL need the support of others to get out of it......

I acknowledge that the vast majority down there are doing the right thing. I also KNOW there are several who AREN'T. That is why yesterday's cease and desist notice came from SP. :ok:


Just for your information, here in Sydney Base( where courtesy of a ridiculous housing market our bills are significantly higher whilst we earn the SAME money) there is NO overtime being worked, there are NO shift time adjustments being done and there are definitely NO favours being shown to the company so that we can 'pay the odd bill'. And we are the area formerly known as A-Lick central!! :D:D:D:D
THAT is why EBY is a WEEK late leaving from a simple 'A' Check.

Finally, it's not for the sheer fun of it that one of 'our' basic 'A' Checks is heading to AVV in ADDITION to their current work because we can't "handle" the workload...........

perhaps your 'goodwill' is being taken advantage of?

If you care to refute and set me straight in a truthful manner please do so and I will happily blank this post.

[The cougar]

Bluice
The problem with Lax ramping up A chks is that it was done with the help of Syd Base maint Lame's. A few legends making names for themselves however everyone in base knows exactly who they are, and why they went up there. Better have a good hard look at the contract boys they are offering for a permanent position in Lax as Lame's have long memories!

[crackfinder]

Give the guys in LA a chance to do the right thing, preempting their actions is going to far. There are no spare parts in Syd for an A chk so I cant imagine that this is going to go very well. Wait and see the result before passing judgment on them.

[Bolty McBolt]

The problem with Lax ramping up A chks is that it was done with the help of Syd Base maint Lame's

I don't think we have much to worry about in LAX. There is no way Air Nair can save the day..with his revolving door staff policy and a couple of SYD LAMES
We all know how much experience and effort it takes to do a full A check on a 744. Up until now the checks in L.A. have been cabin focussed and basic lubes. There has been very little in regard to inpections because if they find anything LAX does not have resourses/parts to fix the defect.

I would hope if the LAX work was ramped up the aircraft would leave with more hold items plus a few E.A.s than they arrived. :ok:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Just for info all,

I held a phone conference with the LA secondees a couple of days ago and they ae 100% committed to the good cause.

cheers

[sickofqf]

LAX are already doing their bit. Holds go up, aircraft go late.

That is all they can do and they are doing it well.

The boys in boros tell me LAX were scheduled to do a whole chunk of an ugly's a-check and 4 full engine a-check boros which CY deferred and they only achieved one boro....the rest came back to SYD along with all the rest of the CY deferred 'a' check and took two seperate 24 hour 'downtimes' to achieve....

A good result....

[OL387]

Having worked with some of the Base Maint legends up in Lax I think you will find they are a diligent bunch. Better to have them up there doing the work than the SCABS just signing stuff off. I can't imagine them having the available resources etc. :ugh:

FOG:D

[The cougar]

Mr fed sec
If they are 100% committed to the cause what are they doing there in the first place, they all went up during negotiations and one base sparky went up when PIA started. All this and air nair said he would send people to Aus to help management during PIA. I am sure a lot of people who do some o/t would love the day shift allowances. If they are behind us then they should tell management they have family issues and need to come home. No ifs or buts they along with the cns scum are prolonging this dispute!

[vortsa]

The Sydney Morning Herald

Woes could still turn up trumps
Ian Verrender
June 10, 2008

The Pacific route is a rare asset in the airline business these days; a highly profitable near-monopoly. If Dixon could get the unions to come along for the ride, he could manipulate the present fuel crisis to Qantas's advantage.


Domestically, Australia has only ever really needed 1½ airlines. Ansett, Compass I and II, and East West all fell by the wayside. If oil prices keep rising, Virgin Blue could well be the next casualty. Even if it survives, its activities will be severely curtailed. Guess who that will benefit? Geoff Dixon may still go out on a high.


Don't tell me he is going to come out of this a hero???

[Anulus Filler]

Don't tell me he is going to come out of this a hero???

Not when your own staff are against you!:=

[The cougar]

5 + 5 + 5 ++ what is going to make up for the loss of the laptop salary sacrifice

[Short_Circuit]

5 + 5 + 5 + GD + DC + MH

he he he he he.:O

[Acute Instinct]

"Leaders have a significant role in creating the state of mind that is the society. Most important, they can conceive and articulate the goals that lift people out of their petty preoccupations, carry them above the conflicts that tear a society apart, and unite them in pursuit of objectives worthy of their best efforts". - John W. Gardner

As read from page 8, 'What is leadership', in QE's leadership manual. Failed on all counts!

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

A few of us ALAEA officials went to try out the Amazing People camps at the invitation of management. I thought they were quite good and yes, we did learn something.

cheers

[Acute Instinct]

So much merit, yet so little delivery. So much hope, yet so much dispair. So much truth, yet so many lies. So much pride, yet so little morality. Like a hollow log, inhabited by snakes. Its only when the fallen tree is viewed by its end, does the rotten reality hit home. Then the rains came!

[Nepotisim]

Apparently several avionics type people were rung today and asked if they wished to go to LAX for an unspecified period for unspecified reasons.

Unfortunately all were unavailable to do the mission.:{

However one of the newly appointed ops managers was seen walking in with toolbox. Luckily he was rumoured to have resigned from the union, pending executive meeting of course.

Thanks for your help CY.:=

N

[NAS1801]

CY..... a w@nker 12 yrs ago when I had the mis-pleasure of being on his crew.... seems nothing has changed.

[MR WOBBLES]

yes boys n girls, thats right higher rate of pay than a/f single type lame.
no certification
no bull
no traffic
to much o/t
straight days or 24hr shift your choice
&
more than 5% of level 3 lame
google search select industrial & search under aircraft

I think that equates to >$82,000 on shift not bad

but then again I must of miss read the add as there is no engineer shortage

[PIOT Bord]

Acute Instinct - As per the quote you posted, D.C. and M.H. have not failed on all accounts.
and unite them in pursuit of objectives worthy of their best efforts
Come on, you must admit, they have united us in pursuit of worthy objectives
1) A fair and reasonable wage for all LAMEs (starting with a 5% increase).
2) The removal of the worst engineering management Qantas has ever known.

[company_spy]

It warms my heart to see you all holding the line. As our forbears in the trenches did all those years ago, but with the same steely sense of purpose. For our brothers in FNQ and in particular Mr Beal I would remind you who was with you shoulder to shoulder and helped you in your early days. Instant Karma's gona get you!

[division1]

Short_Circuit
5 + 5 + 5 + GD + DC + MH
he he he he he.:O

5% and the removal of DC would do it for me.
How the grand poobah got a 50% pay rise last
year makes me puke. His airy fairy policies suck,
and I'm sure a more practical engineering manager
could be had for his current 1.9 million dollar salary.

[company_spy]

Quote:

A post I saw eary in the piece



]Gentlemen, i hope we settle this

i am reliably imformed that if we do not, things will never be the same again, i am asking all like members to be aware.....i am not a troll....i implore the ALAEA to be vigilant, please do not stuff up

If we let this EBA get rammed through in it's current wording then I am telling you now, things will definatly never be the same again for Qantas LAMEs, and it's not good. Now if you are in fact an operational LAME you should understand this and be outraged at the audacity of those who seek to impose such conditions. If you are infact an agent provocateur or a company stooge then you allready know this and are by association in agreeance to all the claims made by the company.

"The ALAEA" is the sum total of ALL it's members. Hold fast, suck it up and don't shoot untill you see the whites of their eyes.[/QUOTE]

[Collando]

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23843566-462,00.html



Mr Dixon also expressed eagerness to clear two hurdles before he steps down as chief executive next April.
Industrial action continues to hurt the airline, with its licensed engineers pushing for a 5 per cent pay rise over three years.
Mr Dixon is resolute in his final offer of 3 per cent: "We are holding the line. We must hold the line. If we were to give in to that extra 2 per cent, it would cost us, across the board, $360 million after the third year. This company can't afford this," he said.
There is also the considerable matter of cleaning up Qantas' public image which, according to Mr Dixon, has unjustly taken a battering.
"We are a tall poppy. I'm not saying we don't have problems - everybody has problems. But this is, by any measure anywhere in the world, a very high-quality airline in just about every respect."


Tough talk, whos going to hold the line for you?is your army big enough?

Whos fault is it Qantas has an image problem GD

Oh your going to blame that on the engineers too eh,. or anyone except your own management team no doubt.would ruin their bonuses if you did that maybe.

Think a few cracks are beginning to show.

[fistoffive]

Cougar ,
The Group in LAX has had open dialogue with the Fed Exec and they have the full approval of the union to be in LAX. To pull out of LAX now would result in the station being FULLY manned by scab labour and the ability to monitor and measure to work being carried out at this station would be lost not only in the short term but possibly forever.
Sometimes one needs to look a little further than the outcome of one A check.............

[cpiom]

Sorry cpiom, but you are in the minority here. If (as you allude) you know the quoted passage(s) came from an exec member then you know enough to call up said member and ask him to qualify his post. Can guess you will be put straight and sent home, tail between legs.

mel applied, yes I am in the minority; on this thread, but tell me why I would bother calling anybody on the exec when they show such a gross dis-respect for others. Call me a troll or act like little kids and put your fingers in your ears "nah, nah, nah" but the facts speak louder than words or actions. Try and justify your actions as much as you like, once the customer leaves they don't come back. Less flights, less need for employees. I am not saying this will happen what I am saying is the way a minority are acting on this thread to destroy their employer, and in fact their income, whether it is good or bad, is incomprehensable.

[Sunfish]

CPIOM:

once the customer leaves they don't come back. Less flights, less need for employees. I am not saying this will happen what I am saying is the way a minority are acting on this thread to destroy their employer, and in fact their income, whether it is good or bad, is incomprehensable.(sic)

Rubbish CPIOM. Qantas has a virtual monopoly of capacity and facilities in Australia, and no matter how badly it is managed people have no choice but to fly Qantas.

As for "destroying your employer" Management are doing a pretty good job of that themselves.

Furthermore, an airline that can only be kept profitable by endlessly making its staff cheaper through not compensating them for inflation - is consuming the very resource that generates it's revenue. That's not very smart, and it's not sustainable at all.

To put it another way, if an airline's ticket price reflects inflationary pressures (which they do), and the price of all other resources it consumes reflect inflationary pressures (like fuel), then why the hell shouldn't wages paid reflect inflationary pressures?

Of course Qantas was facing severe and sustained competition both domestically and Internationally (which it isn't), then Management could legitimately ask all staff (including themselves) to take a pay cut, restructure, whatever, but to reach that point, shareholder dividends would have to be zero, not 1.5 billion.

On a different note, I understand the QF Board is going to meet in New York. My guess is that they are not going to like the funding options proposed, and in any case, they are out of their league playing games in that city. Best chance for funding the Dreamliner would be doing a Rupert Murdoch and getting the U.S. Exim (import/export) bank to fund it at concessional rates. Maybe the Europeans will do the same thing for them.

Either that....or they are going to come back and try for another end run around the Qantas Sale Act.

[Ragnar Benson]

cpiom,

You accuse the exec of showing gross dis-respect for others but is that not what our management do each day.

The corporation is a psychopath and its managers like you that have made the workplace the institution that it is.

[mel applied]

cpiom

the fact that you don't want to call your fed exec member leads me to believe that you have a mind like a steel trap - closed, rusty and won't let anything in.
There is a reason that the bulk of us feel like we do. Years of neglect will do that to any relationship.
But now we are standing as one and letting our concerns be voiced.

[mister hilter]

Ragnar...geez you're up early. Take the emotion out of your posts, please!

[Ragnar Benson]

Frankly your the one that is normally cranky!!!

[Short_Circuit]

By Andrew Carswell | June 12, 2008 The Australian



Mr Dixon said the local sector would withstand even higher fuel prices. "No Australian airline will even get close (to collapsing)," Mr Dixon said.
"I don't think there is any doubt that the Australian airline industry is one of the strongest.

Ops, that one slipped out. :uhoh:

Take 5 (%)

[aveng]

Any word from the meeting today?

[Long Bay Mauler]

Thats it AVENG,keep asking the BIG questions!!!:ok:

[wanty]

Wouldn't expect news as yet,more likely an update around 5-6 pm est I'd reckon.

Can't see Big dick buckeling on 5% issue,no doubt he will come with an
offer of 1 or 2 measly training point for all and be told to :mad: off.

Can't see members,coupled with the current unity,folding on anything less than (3% plus a level and all backpay) or (5% with all backpay)

Could very well be a mutual truce with 3% and sweeteners or ALL OUT WAR.

My money is on the latter and am fully prepared to see his career at QF pushed to an early grave.:D:D:D

[Bolty McBolt]

mel applied, yes I am in the minority; on this thread, but tell me why I would bother calling anybody on the exec when they show such a gross dis-respect for others. Call me a troll or act like little kids and put your fingers in your ears "nah, nah, nah" but the facts speak louder than words or actions. Try and justify your actions as much as you like, once the customer leaves they don't come back. Less flights, less need for employees. I am not saying this will happen what I am saying is the way a minority are acting on this thread to destroy their employer, and in fact their income, whether it is good or bad, is incomprehensable.
incoomprehensable = incomprehensible

Cpiom

While you stand alone with your opinion on this thread, which I respect, the tone of your blatherings seem to reflect that the Industrial Action currently under way will bring the LAMEs undone when the company takes its gloves off and we feel its full force of its retribution or retaliation. As you say, WE HAD your support.

I for one agree this could be the result but I do NOT agree it is because of the PIA. PIA may be a catalyst but not the cause!
If the company want to smash us, it is something they (QF) were going to do anyway. If the company do it now, it will be under the media spot light and give us a few cards to play that we would not have if it were done the slow and nasty way e.g. H245 closure. Secondly this PIA is proving to be a learning ground to many what can be achieved if we stand together, this will prove to be invaluable tool if ACS is to be segmented, sold off or out sourced. As I doubt you could sell the ACS business to even "romulous" with current tone of resentment toward the ACS management whom are loud-mouthed, air-headed, self-regarding bunch of bozos. This is very much reflected in the current floor staff to management relationship in the seething resentment towards the 3rd floor characters every time they open their mouth.
Ask your self, If ACS is to have a new owner, that owner would not need anyone above the DMM and would definitely want its own people to develop its own style and management relationship or repour. It may not be such a bad thing as I am over this current devil I know.

I am sure many members of the ALAEA have reflected on this possible outcome (many of whom do not post on prune) and realise that if we agree to the rubbish offered by the company now, we will go backwards forever in this current form and if the above also happens we need to be on the front foot to negotiate the best future and T & Cs possible.
Your Doom and Gloom or one door closing another opening depends how you look at it. :ok:
Bring it on
:ok:

[another superlame]

In many ways Bolty I think gutting ACS from DMM up and starting again without factions and chow mein clubs would be very beneficial for the guys on the floor doing the work.
I thought this was going to happen a few years back in BNE heavy when they recruited and outsider for the manager up there. But as always the old mentality crept in and has stuffed up any chance of making it a winner.

So if they started again and decided ACS is a business that has potential to make them a lot of money. the first thing to do would be cull the deadwood and start again. The whole place is full of incompetent people that wont leave because they know that they are in a sheltered workshop and the wont survive outside.

but then that is another thread i guess

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

No joy guys. Notice tomorrow.

[chemical alli]

Oh well another good faith meeting where the alaea turned up in good faith without it be recinded in kind. Sounds like we should now counter offer with a 6x6x6 and increase after every meeting with no outcome.
keep up the good work fedsec and boys were 150% behind and shoulder to shoulder

[Talkwrench]

Oh well...it appears geoff would prefer a wobbling, disfunctioning airline that stumbles to its record profit rather than a functioning and engaged airline that doesn't make quite as much profit. Which one do you think has the best chance of enjoying a 'sustainable future'? (shakes head...)

[blubak]

Just cant believe that they are prepared to let this go on-got to wonder what they are thinking and what we should do next??

[chemical alli]

Did I ask for an explanantion mendaero? Obviously you know who I am as you imply I havent attended a meeting. Did you take names and numbers as I am sure mine appears.

[ballhopper]

No joy guys. Notice tomorrow.
thanks for the update,it would be wrong to say to much before the official notice, I am disapointed that the company is not in hurry to fix this

[chockchucker]

My Advice Fed Sec, just continue the current course. QF management may not yet be willing to admit it but, we're doing them slowly yet thoroughly just with the overtime restrictions alone. Just ask anybody in the maintenance planning area. Number of aircraft deep into over-run on due maintenance is quite concerning.

However, if you wanted an avenue to up the ante a little, put a ban on higher duties. There are LAME's spread all over the place at the moment at MRO's acting as tech reps (all getting SNR LAME allowance) for aircraft currently undergoing third party heavy maintenance of one kind or another. Recall all of them and let a few more aircraft stack up against the fence and get stuck in bits in far away (and not so far away) places. Seems (sadly) the only language that QF might understand.:ugh:

[acslame]

It's time to get serious.

All ports rolling stop work meetings during peak times.
We need to stop giving QF time to sort themselves out.
Hit them hard and take back the initiative. Pretty soon
they will find that they are unable to react and will have to talk.

The only hurdle we need to clear is Dixon's ego.
(Mind you its a bloody big hurdle).
He has gone on record saying that there is no way that we will
get any more than 3% offered as that is their wage policy for non executive staff, So either we win or he wins.
there is no middle ground.
Dixon didn't get to his position by losing battles.
No one in management wants this fight except Dixon and Oldmeadow.
Dixon wants it because he wants to be seen as the great leader
who broke the unions, and oldmeadow because it is making him rich.

Dixon doesn't give a rats ass about QANTAS. He will, as he has stated just sit this out. Rest assured that he is not just going to give in over a few delays. His ego wont allow it!
If we are going to win this we are going to have to hurt them bad, and personally I think its going to take the airline getting sat on the deck
before he will even consider a serious offer.

So I think we need to seriously up the ante.
If we win this we have a chance at getting rid of the imbiciles
destroying QE.
We can win this but we will need to stand firm because the company
will get nasty.
If we lose this then we are basically f**ked and things will only get worse .

And I don't know about you boys but if I am going down I
am going fighting.

Maintain the Rage

[chemical alli]

Forget higher duty bans,That gives the company reason for standing down a single employee, One in all in. Return to the 8 hr roster.

[Take five]

It’s just more of the same union busting tactics.

Think back over the last three years.

Keep them in the dark and explain nothing.
Tell them it’s your way or the highway.
Don’t negotiate, and listen to no one.
Make them afraid of losing their jobs.

I went to my doctor the other day and he told me. "There are so many Qantas people suffering at the moment." and "It’s a wonder that 90% of you aren’t off on stress leave and suing them."

We really need to stand up and fight for this because it will be our last chance.

It’s time that the management of this company got a good wake up call because we are all sick of the crap that we have been putting up with.

Bring it on.

[stiffnut]

Keep it the way it's going boys, time is on our side, it's going to collapse in a heap within the next few weeks, osip being postponed and mels running out, they [the so called management] wont know what to do other than sit the aircraft at the fence, so how are they going to explain to gd that HIS airline is not flying anymore.

[Talkwrench]

true, stiffnut. slow and steady wins the race...

[ACARS747]

acslame stated
If we are going to win this we are going to have to hurt them bad, and personally I think its going to take the airline getting sat on the deck
before he will even consider a serious offer.

So I think we need to seriously up the ante.
If we win this we have a chance at getting rid of the imbiciles
destroying QE.Mate dont you get it! you foolish people are the ones that are hurting all the other employees! you are the ones that are destroying QF... Dixon will not give in! don't you get it and at the same time you will destroy yourselves and take down thousands of people with you.

Why should you get 5% when others have settled for the standard 3%, your input into the organisation is important,however don't over value yourselves, other sectors in our organisation provide equally valuable input are also vital to our organisation.

You are disrupting and causing great angst among thousands of other QF employees, do you really think they care about your 5%

Anyway you have unleased this upon yourselves and soon you will all be so sorry.........and at the same time taken a lot of innocent people with you.

[warpspeed]

Chemical ALLI do you want 6% and your A380 bolt on payment !

[Ngineer]

ACARS747, 99.9% of Qantas employees do support our cause. In fact everyone I have spoken to has. It's a supply and demand labour market.
We are not trying to destroy QF by any means, we are trying to rebuild it. So jump onto the winning team mate.:ok:

[wanty]

Maintain the faith in the executive. Remember we voted them in, rightly or wrongly so give them a chance to unfold their stratergy the best way they see fit.
For me personally, just seeing how unified we are now as a whole has done wonders for my self esteeem. :ok:

At Dicksons behest, let the shareholders hurt some more,with we the members "maintaining our rage" surely with time and patience on our side,eventually the shareholders will say enough is enough and Dickson and the board will feel the "FULL FORCE AND ANGER" of those same shareholders,It won't be us,we are in the middle of a LAWFULL PIA. It's like the newspaper article the other day in the smh said,

"WE ARE STILL BEING PAID OUR FULL WAGES AND SLOWLY SLOWLY WE WILL BURY THIS BOARD AND ALL THEIR ILK" :E:E:E

[stiffnut]

ACARS747
Yes the thousands of other employees do care, they are sick of the way Dixon and his henchmen are running the company at the total disregard to the thousands of hard working employees who have made Qantas what it is, I for one and i suspect thousands of others want to see him shown the door before he can graciously retire.

[Acute Instinct]

Short and simple! Go away! You must be so far away from the coal face, that you wouldn't even know your way back. Get out sometime, from where ever it is you exist. Speak to the people, a cross section of all. Tell them how you feel, express your frustration. Rather than report back to us with your words of wisdom, self evaluate your intellect, accept how pathetically out of touch your last post is, realise your place, and return to the incestuous cave from which you came.

[wanty]

acslame stated

Why should you get 5% when others have settled for the standard 3%, your input into the organisation is important,however don't over value yourselves, other sectors in our organisation provide equally valuable input are also vital to our organisation.

Didn't your old man teach you to stand up to the school bully Acars ???

What would you have us do,except crumbs that fall off Dicksons table just because your still happy to eat crumbs ???

Better to be at the table and dealt a real hand than to not be allowed to sit at the table at all.

[warpspeed]

ACARS 747 is right 30000 other people work for QF and its typical of LAMEs to care for themselves

[Long Bay Mauler]

ACARS747 is just a troll,and most likely not even a QF employee if you look at his other posts.

Best off ignoring the prat.........cause I know I will.

[wanty]

Warpseed, you are correct,30000 other people do work for QF,so why put up with a wage rise that sends you backwards. Next time it will be 0% increase then it will be you pay them 3%. Get a backbone and stop fishing.

[kotoyebe]

As one of the "other" thousands of QF employees, I couldn't care less if this dispute brings down the company. Let it be Dixon's reputation that shows he brought down Qantas after nearly 90 years, over 2%...$9.13 per day for his employees. So if I don't care, then di*kson certainly doesn't. Bring on the planes parked against the fence - the only thing he will listen to...if anything.

[str022]

Acars747 stated

You are disrupting and causing great angst among thousands of other QF employees, do you really think they care about your 5%

That is so far from the truth!!!! It is unbelievable. We had people of all departments going out of their way to talk to us and offer their moral support. Catering, Check in staff, Loaders, Cleaners and Flight Crew. We had cabin crew offering refreshments so we could take five and do a better job....
That is no word of a lie and it happens every day....

We know we are also causing extra stress for people who deal with irate pax but hey that’s the only language GD speaks. When we start hurting his back pocket he will listen very carefully. 99.9 % of QF employees want to see the back end of this ba*tard. They are sick of his bullying and same rhetoric of crying poor every time hoping we buy it.
They are prepared to take some pain to contribute to the FOG campaign.

I know the angst its causing to people like you and all the idi*ts in bull**** tower is not due to extra delays and angry pax but because it's starting to cut into your bonus pure and simple.
Well guess what? plenty more to come

:ugh::ugh::ugh::mad::mad::mad::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Mech-prentice]

If you were at the stop work meeting, you would have heard why that cannot be done!

I wasn't at the meeting (considering my username it's no surprise) but, as an interested observer, I'd love to know why 6% can't be pursued.

As an aside, I'd suggest that the overtime ban is an excellent move. It makes it really easy for non-airline people to see that their delays are caused by company mismanagement rather than "greedy engineers". I'd be wary of increasing the action to frequent stop work meetings as some suggest here. To be able to say that all the problems are happening because staff are doing all their work but nothing extra is a powerful weapon in the ALAEA's arsenal, and one I'm sure management would be glad to see you give up.

[ACARS747]

call me a troll or what ever you like.
I dont like Dixon or what the current greedy self absorbed management are doing.
What I do care about is how you lot are destroying this airline slowly for an extra 2%. and taking a lot of innoccent people along with you.
Seeing you guys post comments like " we are going to hurt them" shows to me your ignorance, as you are only hurting yourselves in the end and your families.
How are you going to explain that to them on the day you have closed this great airline..........
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[acslame]

ACARS747
Mate I get it all right!
If we don't change the way we are being run we wont have a bloody job!
GET IT.
Look at what happened to syd heavy. they did everything they were asked to and got shafted.

News flash- we are going down the same path
GET IT

We are fragmented, inefficiant, under staffed, under licensed, we have no
spares , our IT is a disgrace, our 747/767 fleet is a joke and our 330's are going the same way, and to top it off our managers wont listen because they have no idea what they are doing and somehow think that they know better. Their dumb ideas and new world bull**** is costing millions in productivity. This mate is unsustainable!

Mate I GET IT . I GET it every bloody day!
So ACARS here it is for ya. I dont care about the money!
I am going to war with the fools that are destroying the once proud
qantas engineering . This is my line in the sand
GET IT?
QF management better be careful because there are plenty of people
like me who GET IT and who have had a gutfull.
If you still don't GET IT feel free to send me a private message and I will
tell you how I really feel.
GET IT?
PS
Don't ever call me mate.
GET IT

[ACARS747]

just have a look at what kotoyebe has posted and it sums up all the destruction and ignorance that I am talking about......
this is what he or she said
As one of the "other" thousands of QF employees, I couldn't care less if this dispute brings down the company. Let it be Dixon's reputation that shows he brought down Qantas after nearly 90 years, over 2%...$9.13 per day for his employees. So if I don't care, then di*kson certainly doesn't. Bring on the planes parked against the fence - the only thing he will listen to...if anything.

And this person is supposed to be "educated" and you expect people to support you with comments like that.
Why should I or thousands of employees lose our jobs..... just to prove a point to Dixon and the rest of his cronies. No thanks I need to bring bread HOME

[ACARS747]

acslame
so you dont care about the money but because you are overworked, and you are prepared to bring down thousands of employees with you......

maaaaaaaaaaaaate! thats not right!

[chockchucker]

ACARS,

as a wise man once said;"better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".


Either we stand up for ourselves to try and maintain our standard of living, or we all might as well look for other work anyway. What's the point in banging your head against the qantas brick wall year after year and then see your living standards going backwards in the process. Don't forget the efficiencies that we're still giving up for this 5%. We're not even being offered 3% for nothing.


Sorry, but this CEO has been crying wolf (9/11, SARS, asian economic crisis, bird flu, etc) too often and now his chickens are coming home to roost.:=

[division1]

ACARS,
Like someone said once before, if you don't have
the stomach for it, stay in the car and wait for daddy
to come back when he's done doing what he has to do.

[acslame]

One more thing ACARS
every employee deserves 5%. not just the lame's.
Its been all beer and skittles for dicko and this band of merry men.
How about looking after to 33000 people who made all the profits?
they , as you put it , need to put bread on their tables too!
GET IT.

[kotoyebe]

troll747,

I don't think you read what I said. I am not one of the engineers on PIA. I am one of your other QF employees who also "needs to bring bread HOME".

Who is exactly trying to prove a point in this dispute? Have you not heard some of the comments by our esteemed CEO? And you accuse the LAME's of trying to prove a point?

If you really think that the future of the company depends on it's employees not getting an extra 2%, then why don't you go an try and talk your fellow QF employees in maybe renegotiating their T&C's down a bit? Go on. It's for the companies survival, with the oil price and all...

The survival of the company does NOT depend on it's employees not getting another 2%. It won't bring the company down. That's why I don't care.

[Red Baron]

Just ignore PAF.

[kotoyebe]

I did!...And also troll747 from now on.

[Long Bay Mauler]

If I was on $250,000 or $300,000 plus like PAF and ACARS747,then I too would think 3% is quite reasonable.

As I aint,then no I dont.

I am willing to stand up for a fair payrise and that is what I believe we as employees deserve.

All employees were treated as mugs into accepting 0% payrises after 9/11 and SARS,whilst executive management awarded themselves 66% payrises not long after.

If PIA is what it takes to either get my fairshare of the pie,or to stop greedy managers from not evenly distributing the profits to their employees after the shareholders get their piece,then I will engage with my duly elected union representatives to take the appropriate legal action required.

This is Australia 2008,not Australia 1808,where if you are lucky to be offered a payrise,you must accept whatever low offer made to you.

[Mech-prentice]

There was no Australia in 1808.

Well...

While Flinders didn't use the term "Australia" to describe this continent until 1814, and it was 1817 before Macquarie recommended that it be officially adopted, Shaw called it that in his book on Zoology in 1793. It was also used in 1693 in an English translation of a French book and Australische by the Dutch from 1638.

As for the place itself, similarly to the old puzzler about the highest mountain in the world before Everest was discovered (Everest. It just hadn't been discovered), you could say it's been around since it split from Antarctica: around 45 million years ago.


edited to fix a 20 million year mistake

[ACARS747]

yes the managers are greedy
yes the management are fools
yes they have no idea what they are doing to this great organisation.

and you lot are aiding them in their endevours to destroy this company.

I understand that you are angry with the past treatment.

SO IS EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS COMPANY

But do you realise that your actions are destroying any goodwill and public support QF we had out there.
Talk to ALL the front line staff about what they are coppimg because of your desire to destroy that "dixon"
Of course they will say they support you to your face, otherwise they will cop the ignorant abuse that they cop on this web site.

If you want to get back at dixon and his cronies, do it another way! the delays and cancellation are not accepted by the public! they dont care that you want the extra 5%, they have saved up for years for their holiday and they abuse the check in staff to the ground staff to the cabin crew when a delayed has occurred.
and you guys have NO contact with that abuse.
Why should they suffer.....and they are!

Yes something has to be done about the past mismanagement and the abuse of power, but at ALL the current employees expense.

Stop posting and talking about " we will get them". ask yourselves
Who are you really getting at?
Management will still get this years bonus.
They are probably looking at a new organisation to get at now.

The delays and disruptions are having a devastating effect on EVERYONE.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Just a website to look at for those who haven't seen it.


http://qantascampaign.wordpress.com/

[numbskull]

OK ACARS, you've made your point.

You don't need to repeat the same garbage every 5 posts.

[Bumpfoh]

If this thread was titled "QF L/H pilots EBA.................." and the pilots found themselves in a similar position to the LAME's at the moment and I got on here continuosly as you do and did nothing other than post inflamatory ramblings under the guise of exercising my right to free speech, that there would be a better than even money chance that I would be advised to go forth and multiply as for the fact that I am not employed at QF as a pilot my input into the discussion is of little benefit to the thread or cause at large.

So as as been previously been pointed out to you and other detractors if you are encouraging that the LAME's at QE continue to accept less than market rates for their profession and continue to go backwards against the current CPI than you sir are a complete and utter fool aside from the fact that you are NOT a QE LAME covered by the currently expired (by over 18 months) EBA, so go forth........ :ugh:

[Flugbegleiter]

I understand that you are angry with the past treatment.

SO IS EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS COMPANY
Yes, we are, and that's why I SUPPORT the action of the LAMEs. We would have taken action if we still had the industrial strength to, but unfortunately, we no longer do. And look at the results of having no industrial strength: New flight attendants now have the privilege of working higher hours for less money, as well as a host of other benefits. Some were critical of us signing off on our EBA, but the only alternative would have been industrial action which we would have lost, anyway.

Talk to ALL the front line staff about what they are coppimg because of your desire to destroy that "dixon"
Of course they will say they support you to your face, otherwise they will cop the ignorant abuse that they cop on this web site.WE DO SUPPORT YOU! 100% And it has already cost me real money. We do cop some pretty nasty abuse in these situations, but I am a big picture kind of person, so it doesn't sting too much. If you guys cave in, and this was all in vain, I'll never talk to you again.

If you want to get back at dixon and his cronies, do it another way! And what do you suggest, oh wise one??? Huh?

The delays and disruptions are having a devastating effect on EVERYONE.Yes, they are. But if simply withdrawing overtime and working within the company's rules are all it takes to cause such a mess, then can't you see that the problem is not with the LAMEs, but with the management. H245 should never have been closed down. That was like ripping the heart out of this airline. I still can't believe it had such little press. At least these guys are making a noise.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I think you will find that another union or organisation has put that website together. I'd say so if it was ours or if we paid for it.

[kotoyebe]

Quote by Acars747 from May 2006 in another thread:

As predicted the QANTAS techies have been posting their drivel even on this site.
And they wonder why the rest of the QF employee workforce have such disdain for them.
There is KARMA! just watch the jet star boys have them for breakfast, don't show them any sympathy they deserve what they get.
In our group we are sitting back and laughing, Jet star will put them where they belong........pushing lawn mowers or driving cabs.....

He seems to post during EBA negotiations....mmm, I wonder why?

This is the person telling the LAME's to think of the other employees in QF, and how they are hurting them......

Enough said about Acars 747

[acslame]

Well, well ACARS,after all your "I care for all employee's" dribble
I see you just like to bash anyone in dispute with the company.

Well you have everyones attention, how about you tell us how
to change QE managements destructive path.
I would love to be doing things differently but I am all out of ideas.

So lets hear it.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Thnx for the offer frozo but I'm more than happy with the way our little campaign is going. Maybe a bit further down the track when we step things up I will reconsider your offer.

[Bumpfoh]

No, I'd welcome your debate on any topic. That is what fora are for. Debate.

Quite right PAF but as I said it would appear that you are abdicating that I and many other QE LAME's should accept a real wage cut against CPI.

I doubt very much that you would accept me and others suggesting you should do the same over the next 5 to 10 years just for the shareholders sake. :ok:

[fixitdude]

Just keep on keeping on guys. No need to escalate any further. No need to go slow. Green guides still getting bigger. More aircraft approaching 110%. Just reassure the public that we are just busy with our familys and havent got time to do overtime at the moment. Surely thats not unreasonable! :ok:

[up2us]

I overheard a brother today saying he cant understand how Dixon keeps saying that if he gives us the 2% extra it will cost the company 360 mill in the 3rd year. FedSec can you run the numbers as Dixon has said this last week as well. I know there is 1600 Lames and our increase May have a follow effect to some other unions in their EBA claims,however I'm sure as hell a lot of Qantas 33000 employee's are salaried staff, contract staff even executive staff who bargain their own rises which is probably more than 5% & have nothing to do with our claim. For Dixon to say this,he is implying if some sections receive 5% all will. I wish he would be that fair to all employee's with regard to the percentages he gives execs!. So please fedsec clear this up with the media,Even better get the media to challenge his rants.I would love to hear his response to this. I am sure @ some point the big insto's will tell him to pull his head in if they knew the real figures and how little it would cost to give the Lames 'the extra 2 %'.
On a brighter note GD's wife unfortunately left for the states 1 1/2 hrs late yesterday

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Dixon's 360 mill statements? Why would we bother challenging the numbers? He has said if it flows on to all employees it would cost that. If we do some serious number crunching and can prove that it is only 330 mill who really cares?

It is 120M p/a against 1400M p/a profit. I would rather say

360 over 3 years, is that all, that is less than 10% of the profit given back to the staff. Thank you Geoff we have delivered productivity that has delivered massive profits and 10% comes back our way.

His 360 mill sounds good to me. I wouldn't even waste my time challenging it.

[amstrang]

I am a Qantas employed LAME involved in the current PIA.
I fully apologise to all non-executive staff who are adversely affected by my, and my unions, actions.

However, I am fully behind the ALAEA in the current dispute with Qantas management.
I firmly believe that we are going along the right path, the end result of our actions far out way any financial or physical pain felt by any individual!
The current management structure within Qantas Engineering is unsustainable. They are simply making too many errors of judgment.
If I were to carry out my duties with similar errors, I would be unemployed!

Non executive employees of Qantas do not work on a performance based pay structure that applies to management. We rely on a fair wage for our knowledge, experience and commitment to our work.
I do not think Qantas employees are being treated or paid fairly by their employer.

I know there are a number of people who disagree with our actions and I understand they are entitled to their opinion, but that is all it is, an opinion.
The members of the ALAEA have spoken as one and are acting as one.
It is humbling to see so many, intent on an outcome, that will benefit all employees.

I urge all ALAEA members to remain focused and committed to our quest. It will not be easy from here on. There will be many obstacles placed in our path but I believe we can and will, negotiate all hurdles with ease, if we remain united.

At the end of this dispute, no matter what the outcome, Qantas employees will never again be looked at in the same way we were previously seen by management.

My best wishes to all.


PS
PAF, go somewhere and find a friend.
ACARS, if you struggle with simple English, use your spellchecker.

[tnfixer]

Well said Amstrang.
I have had nothing but support from all other areas of the company I interact with (ground staff, F/a's, Tech crew, cleaners, ramp and catering) in our battle for a well overdue renumeration increase.
One thing we can do is go out of our way to thank them or help them so that they know we appreciate their support.
All other departments are looking at us, we must maintain our solidarity and not let them (or ourselves) down.

[Bumpfoh]

Firstly I don't think your EBA is for the next 5 - 10 years. If that's what your union wants then they are crazy.

I never suggested that it was, this was just an arbitary period of time to highlight what we have/have not received in the last 10 years.

I'll give you a hint. GD will be sitting in a multimillion dollar home and sipping a nice wine in 10 years - regardless of anything you do.

I think you have hit the nail on the head, and he will do this at the expense of the shareholder and employees alike.

what makes you think that I'm going forwards pay wise with the current inflation rate?

What your personal remuneration situation is none of my business, read what I said. If you are going backwards as you imply then by your logic you should take a pay cut for the shareholders benefit to boot.

Your logic is this: You want to declare war on China, so you've started bombing every mine site in WA and a couple of Perth suburbs.

Thats your opinion but you don't work there and are not subjected to the current QE management lunacy on a daily basis which is where our real beef lies, GD just happens to be the figure head who drives the 3% policy.:ugh:

[amstrang]

PAF,
Don't worry about us missing the point, we will look after ourselves!
You just settle down somewhere comfy and calm yourself down!

Thanks for your input and concern in the past, now, don't you give it another thought.

[acslame]

PAF & ACARS
Plenty of high talk but no suggestions on a course
of action staff should take.
So lets hear it.
I am all ears.

[Flugbegleiter]

If you wish to win your argument then tell the shareholders that GD is reducing their companies [sic] long term value.
This is one of the only good points you have made here, PAF. I totally agree with you on this one. The shareholders and the public need to know what a rotting mess this company has become.

Qantas was warned about the detrimental effects of a "disengaged workforce" about 2 years ago, but they chose to ignore this - nothing changed.

The 5% appears to be the minor issue in this dispute and to be honest, I think a lot of the guys will be disappointed if they get their 5% but there is no shake-up to management; that is what they really want.

[Collando]

When GD says it will cost the company $360 million over 3 years if the flow on of 5% extends to others,does he mean it will cost $360 mill to pay everyone 5% or does he mean that it will cost $360 mill to pay everyone an extra 2%?

Just wondered?

[Collando]

Flying Empty
Tonight...Thursday 12th of June 2008.
A 747 is flying to LAX.....empty.
Thats a whole lot of burn for absolutely no revenue.
Any one able to provide the finer details?

[sickofqf]

saddam's old buddy said...
Forget higher duty bans,That gives the company reason for standing down a single employee, One in all in. Return to the 8 hr roster.

Ali,

I agree, forget higer duty bans because that would be the quickest way to lose the dispute when pay day comes around. All those 4 hour dockings....ouch.

As for 8 hour roster, you need to talk to SP about that. He has some VERY interesting things to say about when that may be an option which QF have no need of finding out here!!


SP.
How about putting an AD in the press thanking passengers and especially QF staff for their patience during these trying times that Dixon has inflicted on us all in defence of his "legacy" ( read EGO)

I haven't seen any apologies from Dixon to HIS customers so how about we grab that moral high ground?

Better go now............defects to find.............wonder if I can ground something........

[Bolty McBolt]

Welcome ACARS747 to our little thread and glad to see you back P.A.F. Thought you had been chased off. I would have been very disappointed to see a member of a Defence force quit so easy ..unless of course you are a francophone :}

ACARS747
Troll on
Why should you get 5% when others have settled for the standard 3%

To use your myopic antagonistic type argument..
Why 5% Because we can !

All the other unions within QF large and small have been fragmented by multiple unions representing the same "profession" across the QF group or people employed on multiple pay bands, different T.Cs with casuals doing same or similar job for different money or both. :ouch:

If you want to get back at dixon and his cronies, do it another way! the delays and cancellation are not accepted by the public! they don’t care that you want the extra 5%, they have saved up for years for their holiday and they abuse the check in staff to the ground staff to the cabin crew when a delayed has occurred.

Dixon, Cox, Harris, should have thought about the repercussions of their actions after 18 months of delay tactics in negotiating the EBA.
This did not happen over night. :ugh:
Engineers have always been about getting the aircraft out so bums on seats were happy.
I can assure you our actions are not taken lightly BUT
The same tripe was served up each time by management that not even the most non discerning pallet could digest.
The company offer was given the big NO and PIA was voted in twice by a huge majority of 80% +. Something I believe made I Oldmedow choke on his chardonnay as the second result was unexpected and the rest ......is Now.

PAF. You enjoy using the word bully associated with union.
Perhaps we are bullies at the moment but that is the game we are playing and we have had good coaches :ok:
So be it

I do apologise to the rest of the prune community for actually answering and/or encouraging trolls. I promise I won’t do it again.
As my father always said Do not put any store in the ravings of an idiot.
And as my punishment I shall read my air legislation notes

[mel applied]

PS. I am a LAME but would never take directions from a union exec full of hypocrites. At least QF pay my wage

You were obviously not one of the 80-odd percent who voted in favour of PIA?
If you have a better way of advancing our claim, then let's hear it.

[cpiom]

That is apparently what you pay your union for!!
Hmm no new ideas there.

[mel applied]

cpiom

thanks for bugger all. you can highlight problems, but no solutions.
Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.

[cpiom]

mel applied, for once we agree. If one side does not back down or change their tact there is no solution. When I say one side I mean either side, I see good and bad in both and both NEED to co-exist, contra to what others are posting.

[Sunfish]

Hmmmm, we have had all the trolls here in the last twelve hours blathering on, QF must be starting to hurt.

By the way, I saw this advertisement in yesterday's paper:

ADVERTISEMENT

QANTAS REQUIRES STAFF IN ALL DEPARTMENTS

Qantas Airlines, Australia's national airline, has vacancies for staff in all departments, suitably qualified persons are invited to apply.

Qantas offers world class conditions of employment and remuneration, but unfortunately for you, only to executives. As a Qantas employee, your conditions of employment are what we say they are from day to day. The only constants being that we will do everything possible to maintain you in a state of total Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt regarding your future employment with the company. We like it like that, it makes us feel good.

We hope you that after you join Qantas, and before you find out what a rotten company we are, you will decide to make long term plans, buy a house, marry, and start a family, that way your ordinary commitments will make you pathetically dependent on continuing employment with the company. That way we can control you much better.

Of course, as you age and gain Qantas specific skills that are of little use outside Australia's sole international airline, your dependency increases since it becomes harder and harder to change jobs. This allows us to really screw you more and more as you get older.

Some of you may believe that you you will progress into senior positions or perhaps even management, thus avoiding the pressures that we put our staff under. Don't bet on it. To be promoted will require that you demonstrate to senior management that you have developed the morals and ethics of an alley cat, and at the least this will require that you show us your ability to lie convincingly and with a straight face. Very few Qantas staff, especially those who work with customers (the mugs who buy our tickets) or in responsible safety critical jobs, seem to have this ability. We still don't understand why.

In any case, we are sceptical of anyone getting into Qantas management with actual hands - on experience of aviation because you would threaten the rest of us. What we have designed instead to keep you happy is an endless progression of different grades and qualifications that you can aspire to reach, but of course don't expect increased respect or authority when you achieve any of them. You can, of course, expect vastly increased responsibility as you progress, and why you would want this is to us still a mystery.

This of course leads us to the subject of remuneration. We have carefully designed this system to look highly attractive to beginners with the company in the fond hope that by the time you learn the truth you will already be "locked in" and dependent, the Americans call this technique "Bait and switch", but at Qantas we like to think that we perfected it first.

Your salary will initially rise as you gain the basic qualifications to serve the idiots who fly with us or keep the aircraft flying. However you can expect that by middle age your salary will actually be declining in inflation adjusted terms and it will continue to do so until we terminate you, or you resign, or you bizarrely decide to remain with us until your retirement.

Don't believe our claims about reaching salaries of $130,000 plus. We keep one or two people on those figures just to prove to the rest of you morons that it isn't a mirage, but of course we aren't stupid enough to pay all of you like that are we?

We still don't understand why you accept our remuneration policy all the time. True, we do our best to scare you into accepting it, and it seems to work. We also don't understand why you are happy to see your living standards slip behind the rest of the community, some of our employees talk about "loyalty to the Company" we don't do loyalty, and our salaries and bonuses had better keep climbing every year or else.

So please come and work for us, we need more people to suck the life out of, and when we are finished with you we will throw you on the scrap heap without a second thought. Apply today.

[Socket]

CPIOM,

Quote,
Bolty if all you can do is attack somebody's opinion rather than give consructive comments, I would suggest a deeper seated emotional problem.

I have noticed a common theme though, you all speak about family time and how great it is to spend time with family and how the union PIA is helping you do that. Great, nothing better than family, more time and money spent on family the better. Maybe the question should be asked of your FedSec about spending time and child support on his kids and ex wife, or is this PIA about his political career. Once a LAME always a LAME, it's all about us.
We are all keen to put bread on the table and support our families, what is the true intention of the ALAEA?

PS. I am a LAME but would never take directions from a union exec full of hypocrites. At least QF pay my wage.

Piss off you idiot.

What is constructive about this crap.

All I see is a VERY personal attack on the FedSec. :=

If you are a LAME as you say I pity anyone having to work with you if your diagnostic/troubleshooting ability is anything like your debating skills.

You obviously have serious personal issues with the ALAEA and/or Steve so why not just start your own thread on that and leave this one to the rest of us.

What a w:mad:ker.

[division1]

At the risk of feeding the trolls, and way too much time on my hands now
cpiom..."If you have no adequate come back for what somebody has said you ignore them,
if they don't agree with your view you defame them."
cpiom..."with your denegration of anybody who would dare question your motives and actions."
cpiom..."So call me a troll or management at lest I am willing to take a level headed approach
to the situation and not resort to childish name calling!!!"
cpiom..."A VILE SLANDEROUS PERSONAL ATTACK ON A KNOWN PUBLIC INDIVIDUAL."
YOU SIR HAVE OVERSTEPPED THE MARK,
I WISH YOU WOULD RETRACT THAT DIATRIBE,
cpiom..."a union exec full of hypocrites"
AND/OR GO DIE SOMEWHERE.

[pablo m]

I am a 32 year veteran at Base Servicing (ACS) in Syd. I am ok with my pay. I am NOT OK with the lack of recognition, respect, training that the younger members of all the various LAME areas are getting, and that without a fair wage increase we will continue losing AME's and LAMEs and will not be able to attract and hold new apprentices and engineers.
I am most definitely not happy that I am daily faced with no engineers unable to tow an a/c, get into a fuel tank, unable to certify for a/c we have had for decades (LE), no training on basic equipment, lead LAMEs stretched to the absolute limit each and every shift due to insuffiient licence training (A330), and an organisation unbelievably dependent upon continual overtime, creating fatigue risks.
If my managers read this, you are setting us up to fail. You won't realise what you had until it is too late.
I challenge you DC, MH, RH, Km etc, to come down onto the hangar floors and talk with your people.

[Clipped]

Sunny,

That was hilarious and sad, because of it's tragic truth.

[PTTSwitch]

Does anyone know what happened to the A chk supposed to be happening in LAX?

[The masked goatrider]

The A check will be fine. A new Young manager went up there who will be signing all the defects and checks out even the mechanical ones. Qantas have made him an approved person to do anything he likes, CASA have endorsed that position and Murray said it was ok to work completely outside the procedures. So she'll be right. :ok::ok::ok:

[YOSHI]

Interesting to see the Trolls are getting nasty!

Good to see the ALAEA members are united, and that their unity is getting stronger every day.

All we need to do is to continue to follow the PPM, LAP's, MERB's, Take 5, SAFE, and of course the AMM Procedures. By doing this and declining to do O/T on our rostered days off, the mess that our esteemed managers have created will soon be uncovered.

There is no need to take any further action, as this will play into the hands of GD and his 'Team'. Just have patience, time is on our side.

This EBA is not just about the 5%, it is about more than that. It is about the future of safe air travel in this country.

Pablo M summed it up well, Without a reasonable wage increase, and real carreer prospects for newcommers to this industry, there is no future for aviation maintainance in Australia. This is an unacceptable situation.

GD and his team are only about money.

The ALAEA members are about much more than that.

[sickofqf]

The A check will be fine. A new Young manager went up there who will be signing all the defects and checks out even the mechanical ones. Qantas have made him an approved person to do anything he likes, CASA have endorsed that position and Murray said it was ok to work completely outside the procedures. So she'll be right.

If CY does indeed step so much as one toe outside the PPM then I would hope the ALAEA has made sure that the other boys in LAX have sufficient supplies of Form2000s and CROSS reports.....not to mention access to a non-QF fax!!

I don't think there'll be much to worry about though, CY was a useless pile of dung as a LAME and spent so much time 'networking', after he converted to Kevyanity, after his long career of being a jackass that he has VERY LITTLE hands on experience.

Beside, the 'A' checks can only happen if the aircraft goes there.....resched time boys...lets make REALLY sure those 400's are 100% serviceable.
By the way.....CPIOM reported to mods for personal attack on SP

[Bolty McBolt]

Bolty if all you can do is attack somebody's opinion rather than give consructive comments, I would suggest a deeper seated emotional problem.

I have noticed a common theme though, you all speak about family time and how great it is to spend time with family and how the union PIA is helping you do that. Great, nothing better than family, more time and money spent on family the better. Maybe the question should be asked of your FedSec about spending time and child support on his kids and ex wife, or is this PIA about his political career. Once a LAME always a LAME, it's all about us.
We are all keen to put bread on the table and support our families, what is the true intention of the ALAEA?


consructive = constructive

Interesting to see the Trolls are getting nasty!


I think Cpiom has mistaken me for someone else.
I have never mentioned family , and I did not attack your opinion.
I fact I said I respected it.
I posted my opinion on the theme of your posts and my take on your argument. (page 115 post 2287)
Never did I attack you in any way or have to resort to childish name calling, that looks like your department. :ugh:

cpiom
If one side does not back down or change their tact there is no solution. When I say one side I mean either side, I see good and bad in both and both NEED to co-exist, contra to what others are posting.

Good point, My post described exactly why I don't think it should be the LAMEs

[Mr Invisible]

I'm a little out of depth with the forensics of running a company the size of Qantas that's why I fix aircraft and that I do exceptionally well.

My brothers, sisters and I have created and maintained the safety record that is QANTAS.

It is time WE get recognized, respected and paid iaw with that effort.

WE will no longer live on our knees, this time WE stand on our own two feet.

GD is simply a dictator and in 2009 he will be retiring to Zimbabwe that is if Robert can keep the door open for him.

[Konehead]

PAF, I read one of your posts, which I can't seem to find now, stating that you posted here to debate the issues.

You’re not a debater. You’re a bomb-chucker, an agent provocateur.

When you toss the grenade that we shouldn’t go to industrial action to get what we want, you refuse to debate the point that we’ve been negotiating for almost 20 months. Should we continue negotiating forever? You offer no alternatives but silence.

When you toss the grenade that our industrial action hurts innocent people, it has been pointed out to you that:

the innocent families of LAMEs whose pay in real terms is going backwards at a time of rapidly rising housing, fuel and living costs are hurting too.
we did all we could to avoid the industrial action. We also kept the public as fully informed as our resources allowed (flyers handed to customers explaining the issues – which I can provide to you in your guise as a member of the flying public, just so you’re more fully informed of the issues you claim to debate yet do so without all the facts).
When we offered an alternative to a 4 hour stop work meeting, the company refused and forced us into it.
Qantas Engineering is so under-staffed, under-resourced and over-regulated with nonsensical, unworkable and impractical policies and procedures written by the current management regime. A company should not rely on the goodwill of its employees (i.e. working overtime and finding policy & procedure work-arounds to get the job done) to such an extent that when that goodwill is removed through the actions and inactions of its management, it will be crippled by it’s employees doing the bare minimum they’re contracted to do, within the policies and procedures written by the management.But the debate ends there. Where’s PAF? Gone AWOL.

When you tossed the grenade that we shouldn’t need a 4 hour stop work meeting (or a 1 hour paid info meeting with skeleton staff to keep the operation running), you refuse to debate the validity of a broadcast monologue by email vs. a dialogue between the union members and their elected representatives. Again, what was your alternative? And what was your response? Silence.

When you tossed the grenade that “if we don’t like it, then leave”, you refuse to acknowledge the following:

many QF staff don’t want to “just leave”. Many QF staff, and in particular LAMEs, are long serving staff. The company’s institutions (which pre-date the current management regime) actually encourage long service, such as long service leave, accumulating sick leave and superannuation benefit multiples that grow with time.
long serving staff have seen good and bad management go. The current crop falls into the latter category. They have done untold harm to a highly respected and capable institution and broken promises to its staff. We want to see the back of them, because we’re proud of what Qantas has been to us over decades of service, and we’re bitterly disappointed and ashamed of what this great company has become.
When you tossed the grenade that we weren’t worthy of the payrise we were asking for, I for one made the case, along with others, that we were. Allow me to reiterate:
Quote:
1. 1999 - 2008: total pay-rises for LAMEs = 17% over 10 years, or 1.7% per annum. Community standard? 37% CPI? 34% GD? 251% in 5 years, or 50% per annum.
2. A 25% drop in LAME numbers vs. a 25% increase in fleet size in the last few years. And until recently, the vast majority of aircraft were getting out on time. That equates to a massive increase in efficiency per LAME by anyone's reckoning, despite an ageing fleet requiring relatively more maintenance.
3. We were promised to be "looked after when times are good" in return for a 30 month pay freeze. Three years of record profits under their belts, and we've been "negotiating" with them for nearly 2 of those three years to get what we were promised.
4. A top tier AME is paid more than a first-licence LAME. "Here's a licence son, take on all the responsibilities of a signatory, supervise those AMEs - oh and now give me back $X bucks a week!" HELLO!
5. A QF LAME has to work for over 30 years to receive what a 1st year LAME receives at VB or J*.

6. QF revenue growth has been more than double that of wages over the last three years, despite the rapid rise in fuel costs in the same period. That equates to a Group-wide improvement in employee efficiency, or "the ability to generate revenue per man-hour".
7. "Independent financial analysts (Citigroup, Deutsche Bank, UBS, Macquarie) conservatively project that QF revenue will continue to grow at an average of approximately 7% per annum over the next three years". Therefore, a 5% payrise over the next 3 years is affordable.
8. QF earned more revenue per employee than the domestic airline sector average: $443,000 vs. $436,000.
9. A 5% wage claim wil cost $360 million IF it flows to the rest of the company's employees. Fat chance of that happening. All staff may deserve it, but few have our leverage. And so what if it did flow through? The company can't afford 0.52% of revenue to help sustain that revenue, rather than piss people off and guarantee that revenue will fall more than that from a disengaged, un-inspired, under-performing workforce?
10. QF has increased international fares by 33% in the last 9 months, so fuel costs are being largely passed onto the customer, not eroding the bottom line, and not removing QF's ability to give us a fair pay-rise.

On a related note, you have a tendency to hone in on a particular sentence, phrase or even a word and quibble over a point based on that, rather than holistically looking at a post in its entirety and responding to the sentiment of the post as a whole.

For example, you criticise my maths – a failure to take into account compounding. Well-spotted. I stand corrected. But figure this out maths genius:
1. GD? 251% in 5 years = what per annum exactly?
2. A 25% drop in LAME numbers vs. a 25% increase in fleet size in the last few years = what productivity/efficiency increase? Assume since 2001.

Your bomb-chucking and provocation is NOT debate. Don’t pretend otherwise.

[Konehead]

PS. I am a LAME but would never take directions from a union exec full of hypocrites. At least QF pay my wage.

So when OUR union secures a payrise higher than the standard 3%, will you give back the difference to the company or take what OUR union and members fought for?

[beachhead]

CY spotted around SYD Base today. Better get your facts straight before throwing stones gents.

[shotpeen]

just found out 48 bodys attending Aviation Aust. in BNE for AA training next week.
anyone have any more info?

[Flugbegleiter]

So when OUR union secures a payrise higher than the standard 3%, will you give back the difference to the company or take what OUR union and members fought for?
Since it is effectively the union that negotiates the pay increases (and by union, I mean all financial members of the union, along with the delegates, etc), I think it would be only fair to charge non-union members a fee to sign-on to a new EBA. Why should you all have to pay hundreds of dollars each year in union fees but they pay nothing, yet get the same results? An EBA negotiating fee would be fair for those people. Especially when it has taken industrial action to get the results!

[Sunfish]

Great first post shotpeen, what do you mean by AA training?

[sickofqf]

They have to PASS the AA exam before they become a problem.....and guess what....the smarter ones will be failing...........:ok:

...and will walk away with the loot without stepping in the door........:D


I have it on good authority quite a few who are pocketing the $100k, or whatever it's up to now, have no intention of actually seeing an aeroplane!!
:eek:

[Ngineer]

Had a chat with a person I had met who said he was from a company called S&P at a meeting recently, seemed very interested in the happenings of our airline. He commented that a credit rating was under review due to the uncertainty of profits next fin year, due to current turbulance within the company. (This was about the same time our stop works were hitting the news). Seemed pretty logical to me. I also heard there was a fairly big upcoming meeting in the big apple with our grand poohbahs and several financial guys?
Either way, it seems every time we hold a 4 hour stop work, it sends shudders through the network for many days later.

[Orangputi]

Many years since I left Qantas but I can say stand firm and give it to these bast##ds.

I used to enjoy the old stop work meetings down the old Rowers club and a few schooners. With respect to the blue team guys I think it is great you are all united in the cause, the old method was divide and conquer but you have them stuffed!

With regards to the scabs name and shame it is simple opportunism. With respect to the trolls like cpiom and who ever the other guys forget them they are just gutter dwellers of no substance!

from an old Sydney maintenance guy (in the 80's).

[UP D Date]

I believe after reading the latest notice, that the time has come to step up our pia. The company through their inherenent ineptitude and general incompetence has dragged this EBA on long enough. Its time to go to 8hr rosters, follow the ppm to the letter, and apply as much pressure as possible!!:ugh:

[sickofqf]

Steve,

Are we legally bound to give these scumbags notice of our stop work meetings or can we call snap ones?

Seems to me giving them notice is counter-productive?

[Orangputi]

Many years since I left Qantas but I can say stand firm and give it to these bast##ds.

I used to enjoy the old stop work meetings down the old Rowers club and a few schooners. With respect to the blue team guys I think it is great you are all united in the cause, the old method was divide and conquer but you have them stuffed!

With regards to the scabs name and shame it is simple opportunism. With respect to the trolls like cpiom and who ever the other guys forget them they are just gutter dwellers of no substance!

from an old Sydney maintenance guy (in the 80's).

[Short_Circuit]

I think there is not time to waste, we need to go back to 8 hour shifts.

Our people can not work 12 hours with no breaks. We are suffering from extended hour shifts with no or little breaks.
We are hounded by management to sign for unserviceable aircraft and being so fatigued, someone may just do that
(soooo fatigued, stressed & demoralised)..

The BIG BANG theory may be about to re-materialise.

Time to take 5. ie go back to 8 hour shifts.

[stiffnut]

I'd love to know how much this dispute has cost the company so far, with hiring scabs, pax in hotels, a/c flying empty etc. etc. must be eating into their fighting fund, also what would the shareholders think of all this.

[Ngineer]

SickofQF, I would'nt mind trying out the 8 hour roster again. It's been many years since we were on it, and I think it would be good for a change and for moral. However, the 4hour stop work meetings really had them running scared. Especially so that they threatened not to negotiate with us. We all saw the impact of them for at least a week later. I think we should have a running campaign of 4 hour stoppages until the company puts an offer on the table, not just another token meeting to try and buy more time.

[lamem]

I know of a Virgin guy attending that course. pommy trying to get his 737 license through CASA. Don't know of any QF Lame's on it.

[Short_Circuit]

Surely, enough is enough.
We, the LAMEs have shown good will for 20 months now all the time being shafted by our company's CEO.
If it is a fight they want, lets give them one.
A 2 day stop work meeting to discuss returning to an 8 hour shift. Allowed under the PIA.
It will take at least that to talk to the members of the ALAEA and then vote on it.
Good will has gone. Time to talk turkey.

[mel applied]

I love big t*ts

[off-sked]

Hi All..... Ive been watching for a while but thought I'd better get my own log-on and say my bit.
As I remember, 8 hour rosters weren't much fun. Not many days off etc. Happy to go there if directed of course, however I'd be hoping that it would strangle things enough to force a result from qf quickly. In my mind, it's beyond belief that qf is allowing such damage to occur and not frantically looking to reach an aggreement with us. If this thing drags on, i'd prefer to be on a roster that provides days off and shift penalties. You can be sure that we'd land on the least friendly roster concieveable, probably with plenty of 7am starts.
This campain needs to ramp up quickly of course, but with only one set of staggerred (between ports) stop work meetings behind us, I reckon having a few co-ordinated (all ports at once) stop works (ie: 2, in a week) would certainly get our plight back in the news, ground several aircraft and expose both the imported strikebreakers and those amongst us. :=

[dingle]

Totally agree off-sked. The 8 hr roster is extremely painful to us. Having done it in Perth we got a result but it took it's toll on everyone, it is especially hard on those with young children. With most peoples leave cancelled the breaks between shifts give us time to wind down and spend time with our families. However these are trying times and if that is what is needed so be it.
We'll win the war make no mistake.
All the best to you and your families.

[Acute Instinct]

I have near pissed myself. Talk about being hit with a contrasting statement. Needed that laugh.

[Ngineer]

"You can be sure that we'd land on the least friendly roster concieveable, probably with plenty of 7am starts."

Off-sked, I think your probably right mate.


"I love big t*ts"

Mel Applied, is your missus watching big brother aswell?

[The masked goatrider]

Oh the disappointment of it all I could have sworn that Qantas would fold by now but still we wait and hear from the asn that we need to allow time for the fearless Qantas leaders to get back to us at their leisure next week. Now my knees started to buckle at the thought of a lengthy campaign that required me to cut back on overtime and work to rule. I told my wife that I wanted it all to end so I could go back to cutting corners, turning a blind eye to minor defects and doing call ins at midnight. She said to me – goatrider wtf are you thinking about you moron, just close your eyes and think of the celebration party at some managers house if you guys fold – so I did and these were just some of the scenes I imagined.

The distinguished guests arriving at the Dixon Chateau at or slightly after the 13.30 commencement time to be met by AP and AMc for an introductory safety briefing.

DC standing by the h’orderves mulling over his selection when M comes up and touches him so ever gently on the arse and says “ Did I tell you we could do it or did I tell you we could do it”.

Big Kev rolling a few snags around the 12 plate stainless bbq whilst wearing an apron that says – “Gout builds character”. Four new ops managers trying to work out how to light the flame.

JV handing out pocket versions of his strategy map explaining how it should have worked at Ansett but the LAMEs had a go slow on that grounded the 767 fleet.

Dixon sharing a fluffy duck with an old friend Marg saying “who were those two fwits introducing people at the door?”

DH sitting in the corner by himself, stubby in one hand, stubby holder in the other wondering why nobody is interested in talking to him.

GB on the edge of his seat pretending he is interested in the story DR is feeding him about all the leave he rejected. Stylsey walks up and interrupts saying ‘hey GB you might want to sit on that seat properly, we’d hate somebody to hurt themselves now wouldn’t we.”

Dicko and M embracing with a slight whisper from the boss ‘he will be gone before I am mate and the job is yours”.

The group photo.



Just some of the ghastly scenes I have been imagining. Bring on the 8 hour.

[fatcat69]

SP I think you a wrong not to fight the battle on a financial as well as a moral front.

The moral claim by LAME's to maintain wages in line with inflation is not in question by anyone but our executive management who think the rules apply to their employees but not themselves. Hence they are considered irrelevant and unable to lead by their employees.

From a financial view I have provided info from the QF annual reports and is therefore not biased by us.

Yes it is true fuel costs have risen from 13% of total expenditure in to approx 30% in 2009. This is a fact and all of us including the executives have no control over this rise. But as we are the “most experienced airline” and have seen all this before we have a team of people who hedge our fuel price, its just a form of insurance.

What is more important than the rising cost of fuel is the rise in total group revenue. As long as our customers pay more per seat/km to compensate the company for the increased fuel costs the shareholders are all the better off. So lets look at the figures…….Group revenue has risen by $7.3B and fuel costs by $4B over the same period from 2004 to projected figures in 2009.

Why does Geoff keep making all these doom and gloom projections? Because they love to baffle all with figures and Bull Sh*t. Will our fuel cost really be $5.3B in 2009? Who knows. But they have said that fuel costs will be $2b higher by the end of 09………….so where is the counter prediction about revenue?? Well revenue will grow by $3.5B over the same period, so shareholders will be better off and have an extra $1.5B in their pockets.

So what about wages growth?? Yes compound 5% to all employees wages in the group and you are out $342M…. minus that from our left over revenue after increased fuel costs and our shareholders are still $1.158B better off………

Lets look at another little hole in the leaking boat… basically our Executives talk about customers but keep on cutting services, sustainable futures means less front line staff and our wonderful loyal customers are charged full service airline rates but get second rate front line service because there are just not enough check in, motivated cabin crew, ramp and engineering staff. Lets take $200M out of the $503M in marketing budget and actually provide the resources to our customers we continually bombard them with on the TV. That equates to nearly 2000 new front line staff!!!!!!!!!!!! No increase in cost but hey what would any Airport Manager or Duty Manager say to say an extra 800 staff in Sydney, 500 in MEL and another 700 spread out within the rest of the network. WOW what a revolution we could actually do what the TV ads say we do and still bore the customers with $300M in ads each year.

The final say….

Let our leaders stop telling us how to be leaders and using their new language and actually start doing it themselves. Our Board need to step up and say enough is enough before our customers desert us and our proud airline is destroyed by personal greed and gross incompetence from those who have failed to meet the moral test to lead this wonderful organization.

Thanks to all our wonderful front line staff, you are the real heart of our company not our pathetic executive team.


EstimatesEstimatesQAN Annual ReportQAN Annual ReportQAN Annual ReportQAN Annual Report200920082007200620052004Revenue 18,685,658,970 16,833,927,000 $ 15,165,700,000 $ 13,660,600,000 $ 12,648,000,000 $ 11,353,000,000 Revenue Growth11.0%11.0%11.0%8.0%11.4%Total Expenditure $ 17,299,755,981 $ 15,828,556,800 $ 14,064,600,000 $ 12,962,000,000 $ 11,527,100,000 $ 10,255,500,000 Expenditure less fuel $ 11,962,955,981 $ 11,328,556,800 $ 10,727,800,000 $ 10,159,700,000 $ 9,595,400,000 $ 8,899,900,000 5.6%5.9%7.8% $ 1,385,902,989 $ 1,005,370,200 $ 1,101,100,000 $ 698,600,000 Manpower & Staff Related $ 3,676,506,750 $ 3,501,435,000 $ 3,334,700,000 $ 3,332,170,000 $ 3,244,900,000 $ 2,938,500,000 Wages Growth 2 years $ 341,806,750 23.7%25.7%28.2%28.7%Aviation Fuel Useage L 4,680,270,000 4,561,238,000 Fuel Costs $ 5,336,800,000 $ 4,500,000,000 $ 3,336,800,000 $ 2,802,300,000 1,931,700,000 1,355,600,000 Cost per litre $ 0.71 $ 0.61 Fuel costs as a % of total costs30.85%28.43%23.72%21.62%16.76%13.22%Staff 32,831 33,788 35,520 33,862 Average Manpower & staff related cost per employee $ 101,571.69 $ 98,619.92 $ 91,354.17 $ 86,778.69 3.0%8.0%5.3%Cash Flow $ 2,353,400,000 $ 2,026,000,000 1,950,000,000 1,999,400,000 Net Cash Flow per employee 71,682.25 59,962.12 54,898.65 59,045.54 Marketing Costs $ 503,400,000 $ 469,600,000 444,300,000 466,100,000 Computer & Comms $ 527,000,000 $ 487,000,000 491,900,000 439,100,000 Computer & Comms per employee $ 16,052 $ 14,413

[cartexchange]

I deleted my post as Its best I keep out of it as it could have heated up!



Jeez, gumpy you must be on some very different flights to me ( Ive been doing this for over 20 years) once again I have never seen a captain stand anywhere near passengers when boarding or ever listen to conversations enough to blast any Cabin Crew. I doubt any tech crew would "tear strips" of anyone these days, there would be a harassment case in the office in two seconds flat!
The tech crew are always in the cockpit when pax are boarding.
I have never had a captain or any tech stand even close to me when speaking to a pax, they rarely leave the flight deck these days due to necessity.

I still stand by my statement....I have never seen any engineer explain to ANY pax about a delay or technical problem.....however please feel free to do so in the near future, I welcome you taking the heat from us.



What concerns me though is the collateral damage!

[cartexchange]

anyway...... good luck......

[Collando]

QANTAS UNIFORMS DEPARTMENT CLOSURE Due to a large recruitment exercise, the Qantas Uniforms Department in Mascot will be closed on Thursday 19 June 2008 from 8am to 4.15pm in order to perform full fittings for new recruits. For urgent issues only on this date, please contact Qantas Uniforms on ext 21450.Link (Notes://AUSSYD31/CA256E0E0073689F)

Hmmm............... Recruitment freeze, New recruits.......

Uniforms for S*%bS ? or has QF suddenly acquired more staff?????????????????????????


5%+5%+5% no more, no less,nothing else.!!!!!

[PIOT Bord]

Might be a good idea if the Syd report back meeting is held at the entrance to the Uniforms Department on Thursday. SP if you take a few enrolment forms, who knows your luck, we might pick up a few new members.

On an operational front, it was a bad day for "Return to Gate" yesterday. QF 175 and QF 31 attempted to get away but ended up with 3 hour delays. QF 77 in Perth returned to gate and is still to depart. Estimated delay is 18 hours. Might I suggest that if it is an avionic fault that you put in a request for one of the new Young ops managers. I hear they operate with their own tool box and are available for call-outs. If you get your request in early he might be able to ride the A-check back from LAX (If he is game - one doesn't know how skilled Mexican mercinaries are!).

[65thunderbird]

I have been with Qantas for over 35 years and have never seen this company so mismanaged in my time here.These so called managers have no idea how to look after there workforce that is why there is no loyalty left,even high up in the ranks.
And as for the new ops managers,what a poor chose,sorry should re phrase that,the guys they hand picked should fit nicely into Mr M's heram.
By the way from my position the company is really hurting,the deferals have blown out and the MEL's have reached crisis point.
The company is holding crisi meetings at least three times a day to see what they can plan next.

To the Fed Sec,my pesonal advise would be to stay on our existing rosters,no overtime,recall all secondments,no higher duties.

If we do the above this company will be on its knees in no time.Don't worry as ther knees are trembling fast already, just waiting for them to collapse.

Also suggest we do not go out on 4 hour stoppages but correpond to the members via email.This way the company cannot bring in outside labour.

As for the fuel crisis,how can this company justify the amount of positioning flights we are doing (no pax on board) to try and keep the scheds on track due to not enough serviceable aircraft.The last one was sending an aircraft to Lax empty due to the A check being carried out up there.I am sure the media would like to get a hold of this.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

You can't structure your campaign like this mate it would be over after the first pay day and I don't think you would lik the result.

If you ban Higher Duties the place would still operate but every single LAME would be asked to step up. Even the ones who have never acted up before. Every single LAME would then be docked their entire pay every day but they would still have to do their normal work. Same for secondments.

I don't think the scabs will be coming on next time we have a stop work. ;)

[Ngineer]

QANTAS UNIFORMS DEPARTMENT CLOSURE Due to a large recruitment exercise, the Qantas Uniforms Department in Mascot will be closed on Thursday 19 June 2008 from 8am to 4.15pm in order to perform full fittings for new recruits. For urgent issues only on this date, please contact Qantas Uniforms on ext 21450.Link (notes://AUSSYD31/CA256E0E0073689F)



Who knows? It maybe another dept gaining new recruits, or scare tactics (ie fitting out a large number (10 or 12) of the human band-aid brigade). Either way, just be patient and follow the guidance of the ALAEA who are always on the case. We'll be right.:ok:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Protected Industrial Action protects you from losing your job for participating (it is illegal to sack someone for taking part in PIA). They will claim they have a right to deduct a minimum (they will take your full day) of 4 hours pay because you didn't do what you were asked (higher duties) and although untested in the Federal Court they will do it and every LAME will have no pay. Sure fire way to end the dispute in under 2 weeks and designed by John Howard so Australian workers have no bargaining power. He did not take into account our LAME licences. Use them to your benifit guys (and girls).

[tail wheel]

A further word of warning:

Twelve "Reported Posts" overnight regarding posts in this thread. I deleted the offensive posts and, against my better judgment, elected to allow the user(s) continuing access to this forum and this thread

You all know the rules - no names, no personal attacks, no agro and animosity!!

With PPRuNe now receiving well over one million "hits" per day, moderating the Dunnunda Forums is now taking up to three hours per day, plus similar time from my fellow Moderators and even that only permits new posts to be skimmed, not read, nor the thread trend followed.

Moderators have jobs, family and other things to do in life. Perhaps in future our job may be easier if both the offending post and the user were eliminated?

Play by the rules or your access to PPRuNe will be gone, quicker than an airline CEO picking up his bonus!

:mad:

Tail Wheel

[K9P]

The problem is, as I see it, that the basically ehtical LAMEs are trying to negotiate with people that are used of amoral office politics and climbing up the knives they stick in other's backs.
Whos word would you trust a LAME's or a Manager's?

[sickofqf]

TailWheel.

In light of the way us ALAEA folk have hijacked your fine web site recently, how would we go about financially contributing to the day to day running costs of pprune?

Either PM me or put a post here telling us how we can donate.

Thanks for your patience in allowing us to be here. :ok::ok::D:D

Cheers

[acslame]

FED SEC
In regards to getting docked 4hr pay for refusing to do higher duties
why don't we test it?
Even If we do loose 4hrs pay we will at least know where we stand
and its going to further incite the workforce at the base in question.
News would spread like wildfire to all ports and delays across the network would substantually increase during that period.
I will even chip in to cover the lucky persons wages.
I am amazed it hasn't already happened because someone at my base
has been asked and knocked it back. I sure as hell wouldn't do it.
All you need to say is that you are feeling stressed buy the whole thing
and don't want the extra responsibility.
Love to see QF defend that in court.

Secondly (here goes the broken record again) its time for a 4hr all ports stop work meeting during peak period. Stagger it if need be to cause maximum disruption.
This should include overseas stations as well.
The following week take a day off and have a meeting about an
8hr roster.
We need to keep momentum.
Don't give QF time to get their s**t together.

Finally tell QF no more meetings until they have an offer .
We have dealt with them in good faith for the last time.
All this is doing is playing into Oldmeadows stalling tactics.

MAINTAIN THE RAGE!

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

We have objectives right now and the main one is to get the best EBA result.

If you want to test laws you should not jeopardise your main objective to achieve that. You will not only lose 4 hours pay you will lose all your pay every day. How will you chip in when every single LAME has no wage including you?

Weigh this up against the impact a higher duties ban would have. Say there are 100 Snr's or DMM's on duty around the country on each particular day, non have leave but 15 are sick and nobody does higher duties. How many delays would that cause? I would suggest SFA. Then not one LAME is getting paid but they must still work, this is not getting value for our buck.

Let us co-ordinate the campaign guys. We can test laws later in our time.

[tail wheel]

TailWheel.

In light of the way us ALAEA folk have hijacked your fine web site recently, how would we go about financially contributing to the day to day running costs of pprune?

Either PM me or put a post here telling us how we can donate.

Thanks for your patience in allowing us to be here. :ok::ok::D:D

CheersThanks for your offer, but PPRuNe is finally self funding from the pesky little but unobtrusive adverts you see on each page. All Moderators are totally voluntary.

What we don't have is funds for lawyers fees and Court costs defending libel and defamation actions! Professional, ethical and responsible users should not make it necessary, however it has occurred in the past.

Just remember, no user is as anonymous to PPRuNe Administration as they may think, as some have discovered to their cost when Courts order registered user information to be revealed. Your anonymity and security is assured in respect to other users and viewers.

You have not hijacked the forum. Your thread is one of many I must "skim" each day and is obviously an important rallying point and communication media for your cause. :ok:

Use the thread responsibly!! := If you leave me in peace, I'll leave you in peace. :ok:

Tail Wheel

[acslame]

FED SEC
That is why you are in charge not me.
Keep up the good work.

Am I still allowed to
MAINTAIN THE RAGE?

[Short_Circuit]

Let us co-ordinate the campaign guys. We can test laws later in our time.

You are right Fed Sec. We should not give QF the upper hand.

I have no problems loosing some wages in this PIA but to give them a chance to
try out their sc@b labour or give them opportunity to lock the gates is not our aim at present.

Maintain the information rage but do not get banned or blamed.:ok:

[blubak]

Keep up the good work fedsec-give them nothing to do us over.
just a thought-if they are coming back with something(probably nothing) next week-well lets just wait n see what it is and if its what we suspect well then we have done the right thing again and its then time to hit them and again show the media just how insincere they are.what do u think??

[rudderless1]

When acting as a Leading Hand or senior, it is your role to ensure Policy and Procedure is correctly followed. If you do it Do it Properly! It would be a nice change to see THEIR policy enforced from above. Good Leaders could help the cause rather than hinder:ok:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

All,

I need to map out some times for further stopwork meetings across the country. Can you pls post or PM me with the best times to have meetings? Also need to know exactly when rosters in each section start and finish. ie. Syd Dom nightshift finishes at 0600. Then I know that a four hour stoppage from 0200 would allow them not to go back to work. Need to know all ports though as they all vary.

cheers

[CTMike]

The best time in Cairns would be 1100 till 1500. This is the hottest part of the day so from a OH&S point of view it would be great. No one wants to get dehydrated (also i just remembered there is a lot of flights then too :ok:) We would really like to be included this time because there is quite a few people with suspect morals in this station.Some have been named and hopefully shamed previously in this thread.

Unfortunately a few bad seeds in Cairns are letting everyone else down.But it would be great to test this stations mettle. I think there will be a few suprises. :(:(:(:(:(

[Red Baron]

LET'S STEP IT UP A NOTCH!

Stop them stalling while they build the SCABforce and take the next step in PIA.

SP, if you think 8 hour rosters is the next logical move, LET'S DO IT.

I have one suggestion though. When we take our next stop work meeting, the association should allocate/approve one person to stay on the job in each port so we can identify some of these SCABS.

In my opinion the last thing we should do now, or ever, is go out on the grass indefinitely. We'll more than likely not have jobs to go back to. Don't underestimate the numbers or qualifications of the SCABS!:}

I'm sure there would be other fellow QF employees that would LOVE to take names for the ALAEA whilst your away at your meetings! :E

Hello to my good friend D.E. ;)

[LAME2]

Be careful what you wish for guys, it may just come true. 8 Hour rosters are not the best for families. If we have to go there, well so be it, but it should be a last resort when absolutly all else has failed. In the mean time we need patience and solidarity behind the executive team and their strategy. We need patience with ourselves and our colleagues. We need patience with our work ethic especially. We do not want to have any unsafe acts on the job.

4 hour stop work meetings provide media coverage for the Association. The biggest problem for QE is their hold items and slowly overrunning checks. This dispute is making management work overtime just to at their basic duties done.

Our actions cost Borgetti and the airline, not QE. Evetually the airline will hurt sufficent to rein in QE.

Pilots, during any stopwork by Engineers I suggest only use the techlog for defects. The CCL is a scam and does not have to be cleared by a lame on a transit of under 1 hour duration.

[F-Class]

S.P.

For MEL ACS, I suggest 0300hrs would be the best time to start a stop work meeting. About 0200 we can start writing all the DR+R's for all the A/C that are still in bits, to cover our bums............

Dayshift can come in at 0700, and start to sort everything out............

Just a suggestion:)

F-Class

[Ngineer]

I need to map out some times for further stopwork meetings across the country. Can you pls post or PM me with the best times to have meetings? Also need to know exactly when rosters in each section start and finish. ie. Syd Dom nightshift finishes at 0600. Then I know that a four hour stoppage from 0200 would allow them not to go back to work. Need to know all ports though as they all vary.



Thx Fed Sec for your consideration, however I don't mind having to go back to work even for 15 more minutes after a stopwork as long as it is timed properly to carry out it's desired purpose. I am sure most other LAME's would agree.

[Ngineer]

Thx Mendaero.
My idea's of when to stop work would be very damaging to the Qf schedules, and if I were to tell the Fed Sec, it would be via a PM. I will not post any tactics plain for all to see.

[Ngineer]

Its ok, I know exactly where your coming from.:ok:

[division1]

How many lames are being docked pay, while forced to continue
normal duties, because of some trumped up charges that they have
carried out UNprotected industrial action.
The management seems be pushing the limits of harrassment on the
guys up north. I understand they pulled the same stunt again today,
now the company does not understand what NO means. All the time
some scab is pre-booked to do the duties anyhow. Who do these
people think they are forcing people to work in other countries against
their will.
Perhaps if there was some WIFM for the extension or ma holders they
would be encouraged to perform the duties more often. Oh, i forgot,
they normally do it on overtime. :ugh::ugh::ugh:.
So i guess if there was a payment for the ma holder, he might actually
be compelled to go, but seeing there is not, they can GET @$#%ED.

[vicky04]

Its disapointing to see certain acting L/H pushing guys & girls into not following procedures & barking instructions over radios! Its driving me crazy:ugh:Also think it would be great to have a stop work meeting 0200
super P/R and less time to rectify all those MEL's and greenies.

[acslame]

0600 in syd. o700 in mel and 0530local in per.
Don't know about bne, adl and cns
but that would have a pretty big impact.

[Konehead]

4 hours before first flight of the day in major ports would be better. Lots of broken aircraft sitting on the deck in the morning. Then all the work needs to be done in the morning. It reinforces to all just how much work gets done at night. And we're not affecting pax directly. No LAMEs milling around in terminals.
First wave delays will hit the company all day.
The only disadvantage is there's no PR opportunity in the terminals.

[sickofqf]

The only disadvantage is there's no PR opportunity in the terminals.

No, but it'll make ALL the breakfast news bulletins on Tv and also radio for people in cars and also for the poor souls in the terminals.

[off-sked]

Just heard from reliable source GD & his entourage delayed today 1.5hrs on QF107. Well done boys! :ok: