Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[UP D Date]

Sydney base resembled a parking lot today, 'A' chks deferred, 76's stacking up with no-one to look at them, QF1 & QF5 delayed:D OGE 8 days with plenty to go yet!!! But apparently O/T bans dont work:ugh:

[NAS1801]

This is what Qantas used to be about. Circa 1980’s. We are committed to sustained profitable growth to increase our position of strength in the industry, to enlarge our worth and to provide a fair return to our shareholders. Um, who were the shareholders in the 1980's????

[Big M]

Um, who were the shareholders in the 1980's????



Each and every one of the Australian citizens of the time.

ABS reckons about 15,894,375 of us back then. (as of 1988)

:ok:

[Ngineer]

In that time my petrol, childcare, rent, electricity, food, insurance, car rego etc etc etc hasn't gone up by that amount

Nice one Big M, but falls on deaf ears mate. The guys we are dealing with could'nt give a toss about the family man. (GD, KB, DC, MH, RH). Or the cost of raising a family and putting food on your kids table.
No mate, to win this arguement I think we need to complain about the rising costs of a New Bentley, or Mercedes Komp, or maybe eating out each night, or housemaids, ivory ballscratchers, etc etc etc....

[Acute Instinct]

All this caused by nothing more than an overtime ban. Exersizing your rights to spend your life, the way, and where, you would like. To spend your life and spare time with your family and friends.

A hand railing was put in at the 'GAP' to stop people straying too close to the edge. To protect the unsuspecting from the likes of a gust of wind. In the scope of an operation as large as Qantas, the gust of wind produced by the overtime backdraft should resemble a dog's fart. Instead, its going through the place like hurricane Katrina and New Orlean's. Qantas sways pathetically close to the edge, having climbed over for a closer look, like a drunken sailor off an aircraft carrier, overdosing on arrogance, gargling some crap about winning the battle.

Some hangover. It may never leave him. He needs to get back to 'base' where this battle will be won.

[Rak-a-san]

I just watched GD (FOG) on th 7.30 report, what a liar. I and everyone else in ADL got screwed and took a 6% pay rise because they said that the company was going bad. Geoff told us that we had a 3% pay rise plus a 4% bone-arse last year, what F#@king planet is he on. I can assure you that my bank manager will agree that we are having trouble finding this. I rang Kerry O'Briens office to give some more up todate factural information. I mean Geoff was rather economical with the truth, wasnt he?

I was against this industrial action originally, I am now 100% support of it and dont care a sh*t if this company folds. Afterall I have been there once before because of dickheads.

Everybody should contact Kerry O'Brien let him know some facts. I have heard that Geoff watches this programe regularly.


cheers

[indamiddle]

so fog reckons a pay freeze for execs is now in place, no mention of a freeze on the bonus they beaver away at. if this goes into july they will be desperately trying to reduce the kpi targets they have to achieve based on flight delays, lost revenue to other airlines, hotel accomodation taxis and meal vouchers plus all the kpi's just for engineering alone...bugger!
rak-a-san, does the large penis in perth resemble a former f/e on the 72 who struggled to get his fat gut off the engineers panel?

[Rak-a-san]

Due to my emotional stress caused by GD on TV, I meant we all took a 6% pay cut not pay rise, in ADL:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

I am horribly sorry and will go off an spanlk myself to sleep for giving the wrong information.

Then again GD gave then wrong info why cant I?


cheers

[PerBro]

Thanks To The Fed Sec For Dealin Quickly With Todays Crap!
Remember Boys/girls Alwayz Stick Together We Are Working
Well As One For Fair And Just Outcome,forget The Corporate
Greed And Remember Why You Are Who You Are And What You
Do.stay Strong....
Cheers
Ps.only 3 More Sleeps!!!!!!:e

[Rak-a-san]

Hey indamidle

that was his twin brother, that was also loud and arrogant, he was never wrong, loved giving imtimidation, couldnt fight his way out of a paperbag, had unusual work practices, (we are safe now). I think he was an identical twin to the person you are talking about

cheers

[backyardmechanic]

BTW, Dick H in Perth, you are still, Fat and Arrogant and never welcome back in ADL, You giant Klutz

You failed to include "foul mouthed, rascist, ignorant, incompetent, greedy and extremely pig headed" and I am being polite for this forum. The crap he enjoyed putting this station through during the 8 hr debacle all for his "I promise I'll smash them into submission M and give them the worst roster anyone could ever conceive" bonus still lingers in the air over here. DH has little to no respect from the very people that lost so much of their family lives due to his money hungry arrogance. He did do one thing for this port though- built a big F.....OFF wall between himself and us and enabled us to all unite like never before. You have forever lost our support Mr Boofhead (as if you ever had it). := (all these SMILIES to pick from for my message and then I see one today in Perth just waiting to sh..t all over his ex-mates. Maybe he was just over here "testing the property market"!!!!!)

[indamiddle]

maybe one of you perth guys could ask large penis if he has been back to any of the bars in darlinghurst recently. i was told it took him almost an hour to figure out the reason so many males were there had nothing to do with being a workers' bar. the male f/a with him said that he had never seen anyone look so scared in his life (this during f/e days)

[employes perspective]

had to dig this old chestnut out again,perhaps FOG could send the aircraft back to Singapore again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvlPBr3j2qs

[employes perspective]

oh and here is part 2,i fell so safe knowing this twit is in charge http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSqpBDqVteY&feature=related
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSqpBDqVteY&feature=related)

[backyardmechanic]

To all past and present Defence force personnel please forgive me when I steal the great Anzac slogan and remind our illustrious so-called management of this company (and those that have greedily put up there hands to band-aid the situation for their own benefit-career or money reasons) that when all this is over-----


LEST WE FORGET

and repeat

LEST WE FORGET

[acslame]

I saw the "Alternate work force" list today and to be honest I
can't wait to look some of these boys in the eyes.
I was shocked to see some of the names of people I held
(notice past tense) in high esteem.
Win or loose, I and my workmates will be pesky engineers,
management will be management but you will be a sc$b!!!
And Sc%bs for life!!!
Hope the money was worth it.
I am really dissapointed in some of you.
I had thought some of you to have been better men.

[QF94]

As hard as it is for me to swallow, we are on a downward spiral irrespective of what we get out of this dispute.

Management have put in place, plans from a couple of years ago to have maintenance outsourced, and I firmly believe this dispute is exactly what they wanted.

They have an agreement and are 50% "shareholders" with Malaysian Aerospace/Airlines in an MRO to do work up in KL, of which I am led to believe that many QF 737's are being done there. The facility in LAX for 744 A checks. Manila for the 330's.

This is a plan that won't be reversed any time soon, and has been expedited with this dispute. One on which they didn't count on with the engineers being as united as they are.

The only real way out is for the major shareholders to realise what is happening within QF and the ridiculous decisions being made by management (i.e. handing back 7 contracts to customers at S.I.T., giving notice to remaining customers at S.I.T. that they won't be looked after during the dispute. Maybe they won't be back once the dispute is settled one way or the other).

The only way FOD FOG will be unseated is for the shareholders to ask for his scalp, and hopefully of all those presiding over this shambles. The "Management Team" have succeeded like no others before them in dragging QF down to the standards of the rest of the world, and their staff with them, in such a short space of time. Their divide and conquer tactic has been a boon for not only the engineers, but the staff in general, in that just about every QF employee has one thing in common. To see the back of FOD FOG and the other snouts in the trough.

This is our last shot at bringing the management to account and holding them responsible for virtually bringing the company down and ruining a once great reputation.

Without great staff and a great product, no happy customers, and very unhappy shareholders as is reflected by the current shareprice below $3.00.

Let's all keep up the heat on management. Remember, they have shown everyone that the company can still run for a few hours without them, but cannot run without its engineers or any of the front line staff for that same period of time.

[Ultralights]

who removed all the FOD videos from youtube?????

[division1]

Oh dear, the beloved shareholders are starting to show
a public interest. As predicted by some at the $3.00 setpoint.

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23913691-31037,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,23913691-31037,00.html)

ABN Amro Morgans private client adviser Bill Bishop said Qantas shares had been hit due to a number of factors. "It's a combination of things," Mr Bishop said.

"They are having the traditional battle with unions, which has manifested itself with this engineers strike.
"The engineering staff are using their muscle to withdraw services and the company is saying it's not going to budge, but they'll meet in the middle somehow."

So, middle ground eh, that might work with some churning of managers.

[MR WOBBLES]

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/

Looking tired geoff

[Boardman]

I have to agree with QF94. There could be a Master Plan here that is being brought forward by this dispute. Management did not count on us being as one and not whimping out like we have before. So, they go to good old plan "A".

Don't forget just recently they were going to ditch the whole company! Who says they won't wind back QE and use contract labour? Could be done.

No public outcry if they do. They will just say it was the Engineers fault, we had no choice.:{

Also, they will dispute this, but the delays and o/niting of aircraft have occurred due to failures on pushback close to curfew, big problems that have compounded and blown through curfew happened due to problems with the aircraft brought on by their "New World". Ha! All we do is a O/T ban and the world caves in!

Even without the O/T ban the ****e would be hitting the fan anyway. Management guys that are reading this should be very concerned with the way the "New World" has gone wrecked the fleet. We said 2 years ago this was going to happen it it has. All this dispute has done is acted as a catalyst and made it a very public bitchfight.

I take pride in my workmanship and always will. I am deeply saddened that the great copmany Qantas that taught me so much and made me and my friends the best tradesman with so much pride is now treating us like crap under their feet. They started with the Heart of Engineering, Heavy Maint, and are now ragdolling the rest of the body.

Have a feast up there in Bullsh=t Tower, once the meal is over you may not have anything left. Just like hungry pack animals.

You guys came to us looking for help to get your "New World", we put up with stupidity, tried to make it work even though we Knew it would not, sat back and did not ask for handouts because business was tough. Now it is our turn to play catch-up you have shut the door.

You reap what you sow!:=

[concerned_LAME]

Worked a treat Annulus

[concerned_LAME]

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=dixon+on+fod&search_type=&aq=f

Does anyone know when the SYD based LAME's will be recalled from LAX?

[max braking]

If only the qf management could take a step back and view the decline that they in themselves have instigated,that will have a "knock on" effect maybe reflecting into many years to come.

They will just say,well if those bloody LAMES just sucumbed to our "buggery tactics" we would have won the war.

"United for the future" we can and will give these so could chiefs the biggest shock of not only their careers, but make a benchmark in the AIRC.

Rudd needs to be involved since most us voted for him to support our down trodden cause.

I mean really it has already cost QF more $$$ than it is worth,
considering the years to come of ILL will and MISTRUST!!!.

Not to mention what the Public ratings will score.I now believe it is more than just this EBA's worth, but QF management need to be chainsawed down from there treetop paradise,

No short term win for either side can bring the company as a whole to any where near what its PEOPLE who execute the POLICY of this red tape ridden ,self perpetuating,downward spiralling company, the upper echlon "still call AUSTRALIA home".

so what will be of Qf in the final washout???

I was very dissapointed today when Anna Bligh close relative of that UGLY kiwi PM said that QF ENGINEERS should not strike as we are affecting QLD tourism.

NO Anna,you are mis informed by your advisors, and they obviously have not done appropriate research into why we are making a stand and why, against,if not one the biggest lying companys in Australia.

The public at large needs to know what the score is!!!

Know I know why Qf mgmt are so scared of the "Buggery campaign" statement as it has already been distributed to outside legal instutions for evaluation.

love your work all Aussie LAMES, if not now when will we have our VOICE!!!

I would dearly love some feed back as this is one of my first posts...

KEEP on MAX BRAKING............... ............ ... ... ... ... . .. . . . . .. .

[max braking]

all we want is a small peep into a large billion $$$$ profit which we have created with or with out mgmt.

That has been resounding evident in the last couple of days when mgmt have off scccaaabbbiiiinnngg at various dom ports..
leaving their own position vacant.

[Socket]

I am not a QF engineer, I am chief engineer of a company. Please PM me a list of the scabs. After the Ansett self destruct I had literally hundreds of applications from engineers, I suspect that when you guys win this fight, and you will, I will get applications from the scabs.

I promise you now, not one scab will EVER lift a spanner in my hangar. So please PM me the list.

[Sunfish]

One thing I find really interesting from an organisational behaviour point of view is Dixon's constant references to "The Board" every time he speaks.

Now Boards have statutory responsibilities to the shareholders, not too Geoff Dixon or any of you employees. They are supposed to ensure that the company is run competently and in accordance with the applicable laws and regulations so that the assets of the business are preserved for the shareholders and ideally enhanced over time.

The Board doesn't make business strategy, Mr. D does. The Board merely approves it or disapproves of it, in which case they sack the existing CEO and find a new one.

So my point is that when Mr. D says "The Board this" and "The Board that" it's actually meaningless drivel, because the Board has absolutely no involvement in the management of the business at all. So why does he say it? Because he is invoking a higher authority then himself, and you are expected to kneel down in fear and terror at the very mention of the holy name "The Board".

The other reason he does it though is to massage the ego's of the Board members, my guess is that they are the type of Board members who might like that, although I've seen plenty of good ones that wouldn't.

Let me tell you what a Board meeting is like. Many of you will have sat on a bowling club or school committee before. Board meetings are not much different although with money and power the trappings change. You will have the Board members arranged around a table. There will probably be the company secretary or solicitor "in attendance" to write up the minutes.

You will start with the apologies and minutes of the previous meeting. Then there will be business arising. Then Mr. D will make his report about the state of the business. There will be a few polite questions and then the Board will vote to accept his report. Mr. D will brief the Board about the decisions that need to be made (ie: - ones that he can't make on his own authority), explain what he recommends and why he recommends it, and requests their approval.

Occasionally people will be brought in to make presentations, then they leave. There is usually a mountain of supporting explanatory paperwork that Board members are expected to have waded through before the meeting, although brevity and succinct briefings are treasured by good Boards. More polite questions from the Board, some of which may be stupid, some not, but all have to be answered by the CEO. The Board votes, usually unanimously in favour. Golf claps all round. Meeting ends. That's all there is to it.

It's quite funny that some people think Boards are sacred, secret societies, where high priests engage in secret ceremonies to make corporate strategy. Nothing could be further from the truth. However some CEO's very carefully foster this belief, and I think Mr. D does because of his constant references to "The Board".

Nothing gets to the Board except through Dixon's office. My bet is that he keeps them well wrapped in cotton wool. They have no knowledge of this dispute except what he tells them, and believe me, what they know and what you know will be two very different things. Their only knowledge of this dispute can come from Mr. Dixon and TV news. Their only concern is their statutory duties as Directors so that they don't get sued by shareholders.

If I were on the Board now, I'd be concerned with the value of the brand and public perceptions. I would also be very concerned to know how this dispute has been "spun" to the Government (Transport Minister, Industrial Relations Minister, Tourism Minister and Prime Minister) and what their response would likely be.

And on that final note, I'm afraid I have to predict that the ALAEA is going to be disappointed with the ACTU and the Government. My reason being that I am beginning to believe that Prime Minster Rudd might be a narcissist like Dixon, in which case QF will dutifully suck up to him, and he will give them everything they want.

Good luck and do exactly what your Fed. Sec. tells you.

[max braking]

yes,

saw sc%b list on paper tonight....
some names ex syd heavy shocked me.....

I worked along side them them for many years...disappointing old mates!!!.maybe your your still living in the old qf world.

Dozzzas$$$$$$ ($120K for 6 mths idle) really do talk even if you have had a sleeper allegiance to your tru brothers for so sooooo many years.

HOPE YOU GUYS CAN ROCK ON IN YOUR SLEEPZONE IF YOU STILL HAVE ONE.

DONT WORRY WE WILL KEEP ON FIGHTING AGAINST THE P.I.G.S IN THE TROUGH...OINK.OINK.OINK.OINK

CRIKEY,THATS EASY TO TYPE ON A KEYBOARD......?????

in ref to your question? stby


keep monitoring

Max Braking

[max braking]

sunfish,

you couldn't have said it soo much better,maybe you should be on the ALAEA payroll, as David Cox once was.

I have not got the time or nouse to say in approval as you said, as I like your style.

enough sarcasm for one night.you were spot on!!!!, and should be heard in a wider audience.

corporate greed will one day end when the public knows the real truth!!!.

keep on max braking brethen

[opalops]

From an ex syd heavy LAME it eats at me that some of my ex syd heavy brothers are on this list of scabs. name and shame boys name and shame.
Is there a way I can view this list PLEASE , Is alist floating around red RAT smoko room at sit.keep up the good work boys:

[employes perspective]

as to FOG's argument,about why he is entitled to such a large PAY check,he keeps saying he is responsible for 36ooo employees and a 15 billion dollar turn over,stiff **** FOG,you are not responsible for 1000's of lives when these aircraft take to the skies,GET A GRIP GEOFF and F@CK OFF

[Annulus Filler]

Root of the dispute.

1. QE Mismanagement.

2. Not Enough People.

3. Will of its Employees.

How do we fix it.

1. Reward employees with what they deserve. 5% is a start.

2. Employ more to handle the workload.

3. F#$K O#F the current management who F#$k it in the first place.

[chanel1234]

Mr Fed Sec,

Why ae you not doing interviews, have you been replaced as the face of the ALAEA.

I would be intersted to know if you have been removed as the spokeperson. I think you are a fantastic TV commuicator, with speaking skills that the Australian public should be exposed to and should be back doing point duties re interviews on the TV asap.

[Mr Invisible]

Captain Dejavu

Question : Do you actually watch the news or listen to the radio ?

Plenty of refuting going on there and Dixon looking a right tosser

[Mr Invisible]

Qantas managers risking lives, says union

June 23, 2008 - 6:55PM

Qantas managers put passengers at risk when they did the work of striking engineers in Melbourne today, unions claim.
About 60 engineers, half of the 120 workers rostered to work at Melbourne's domestic terminal, walked off the job at 2am (AEST) today.
The four-hour stopwork action was repeated in Sydney and Cairns in protest against Qantas' refusal to increase its three per cent pay offer to its 1,500-strong engineer workforce.
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) is demanding a five per cent increase.
ALAEA president Paul Cousins said 12 to 15 Qantas managers from around Australia, all former engineers, worked on Melbourne aircraft overnight.
Qantas confirmed managers were deployed in several locations today while engineers were on strike.
Mr Cousins said passengers could have been endangered by the move because the managers were not as experienced as employed engineers.
"Obviously, we have big concerns in regard to that because we feel that there is an amount of competency required," he said.
Mr Cousins said engineers renew their licences every two years, and must have worked in maintenance for at least six months of a preceding 24-month period.
"We certainly don't believe that these managers that have taken over these positions could actually show those credentials," he said.
"We are concerned that these standards that have set Qantas as a benchmark in aviation safety around the world are being lessened by the use of these individuals."
Mr Cousins claimed the managers, whom he described as "scab labour", missed an important check overnight which resulted in a Sydney-bound aircraft being delayed.
"With the scab labour that they had on, which was Qantas managers masquerading as licensed engineers, basically they missed an important minimum equipment list (MEL) item," he said.
Mr Cousins said the flight with about 200 passengers was delayed for several hours.
But a Qantas spokeswoman today said there were no significant delays.
"A limited number of our Melbourne services have experienced delays of under half an hour this morning," the spokeswoman said.
Qantas executive general manager of engineering David Cox said the incident referred to by the union occurred because of paperwork and not a safety issue.
"This is another example of the union making exaggerated safety claims when it's on a campaign for more money," he said through a spokesman.
"For the union to pretend that such minor issues don't occur when its members are on duty is laughable."
Qantas executive general manager of people Kevin Brown confirmed Qantas had used managers while engineers were on strike.
Asked whether Qantas would use an alternative workforce, including offshore-trained workers, Mr Brown said: "We've said that we would consider doing that".
"We haven't deployed any of those people today and at this stage we don't expect to tomorrow."
Six Qantas flights from Sydney and Melbourne were cancelled today and another 18 have been cancelled tomorrow.
The airline said all of tomorrow's passengers had been rebooked on flights within one-and-a-half hours of their original flight times, but some international flights would experience extended delays.
Several international flights out of Sydney and Melbourne today were delayed by up to six hours, Mr Brown said.
The union withdrew a strike planned for Wednesday and Thursday after a challenge against the legality of the action last Friday in the Industrial Relations Commission.
AAP

[Konehead]

Captain Dejavu

Question : Do you actually watch the news or listen to the radio ?

Plenty of refuting going on there and Dixon looking a right tosser

Aside from your post above, I'm seeing or hearing very little.

I heard Dixon mention on the 7.30 Report we got 3 - 4% bonus and up to 7% bonuses! HUH?!
Let's do the maths:
If he's talking about us receiving a $1000 bonus: if it were to equate to a 3% bonus, it means we're being paid around $33,000/yr; and a 4% bonus would mean we were earning a measly $25,000/yr!
If he's talking about a $2000 bonus: if it were to equate to a 3% bonus, it means we're being paid $67,000; and a 4% bonus would mean we were earning $50,000!
And 7% really strains credibility: if $2,000 were to equate to a 7% bonus, we'd be earning - wait for it - $28,571!
So what is it Geoff, are we earning $25,000 - $67,000, or are we extremely well paid - most of us on $130,000 as you've publicly stated, in which case we've been gypped out of our $3,900 - $5,200 or even $9,100 bonus! (i.e. $130,000 x 3% or 4% or 7%). I'll have to ring People Disconnect about that...
Or are you LYING AGAIN! :yuk:

These are the lies that are not being repudiated. These are the lies that paint us as unreasonable, destructive, greedy money grubbers. And they're going unanswered! :mad:

[EBS]

Firstly, well done to the boys/girls involed in the PIA during the week. Stand strong and dont be intimidated.

Secondly, can someone please tell me why there is a few A380 guys in LAX??? Maybe its for the transit ops of the A380. Or maybe it goes deeper than that.....!! hint hint. Just curious..:uhoh:

[2ofsix]

Quote from Fed Sec on Page 124

Exec has approved funding for some ads. Enough said.

cheers

[sickofqf]

the empire strikes back
qantas on the front foot

trouble for them is it's a tiny, pus filled front foot worth a pinch of s##t and they know it. :}

A checks O/S have been tried before and weren't cost effective at US$36 a barrel........how the hell would that have changed at $140 ?

It's just bluster to try and break our spirit.....keep fighting the good fight and expected randon unexpected shells to fly over your heads from Bexley......:ok:

[K9P]

And how much were the "Manager's" bonuses.......was it 60%?

[sickofqf]

But I do have a lot of friends and other contacts in the electronic and the print media, and they ALL confirm that the story is very one-sided at the moment, on the Company's side!

come on mate, the press are being sent volumes of stuff, they are IGNORING it in favour of the FODrat.

The ONLY reason it is one sided in the press is because thats the way THE PRESS want it.

If it wasn't for ABC there'd be virtually NO news from the true perspective!

Now, what is it ABC DON"T have.............free press....PAH:yuk:

[The Mr Fixit]

I was thinking the same way Captain, turned on the radio late afternoon to catch a swag of one liners from the FedSec and the FedPres then turned on the telly see them again. I saw and heard Dixon one time each and on both occasions he sounded like a broken record. " Oh woe is me, the price of oil the price of oil" but we asked about his own pay-rise he perked up saying he was worth every cent.
Interesting that he has no trouble in airing his own virtues but denigrates his employees to the point we're they are totally disengaged.

I say keep it up Exec someone needs to stand up for what is right and we are right behind you.

[off-sked]

I agree with many posts regarding the one-sidedness of media coverage (particularly so in syd). Did enjoy the ABC radio interview though.

I keep hearing the association stress that highly skilled/highly trained LAME's should not be expected to take a real pay cut (not a direct quote, but close enough).

I feel that real pay cuts have already taken place and the campain is not making this public. I'd like to see the average annual pay rise that we have recieved over the last 10 years made public. I'd like the public to be made aware of the rates of pay LAME's at Qf recieve.

New LAME's having just recieved their first licence are payed less that the top graded AME's. Further more, they suffer that for 4 years (all the while, having all the responsibilities of certification), before earning slightly more than their unlicenced counterparts for another 4 years. It takes a shorter duration of training for a school leaver to become a First Officer than it does to become a LAME. We are not in a "low end" job. The truth will only serve to justify our claim.

Am not meaning to have a go at the executive. They are doing a very good job and have my full support. Just felt like having a rant.:cool:

[2ofsix]

Whoaaa

I Must have missed something, last time i checked i received $650 after tax plus $1000 of shares that are now worth less than $500 which cant be cashed until 2010...

Grand total of $1350= circa 1.5% of my salary
No pay rise since 2006, woo hoo.

I hate the way this Di*k is spinning his yarns in the press to make everyone believe we have just come up with our untimely demands and how he will not negotiate with a gun to his head.

Our demands date from september 2006, you did not negotiate then. It was the same line take it or leave it...

I must call people disconnect to ask them where is the missing 5.5% of my bonus from last year i have a spare 30 mins.
:8:yuk::8

[wantsta]

can someone pm me the list please

[Mr Invisible]

More chaos as Qantas dispute set to escalate


http://images.theage.com.au/ftage/ffximage/2008/01/16/th_QantasNoseFront_med-thumb__90x60.jpg (http://media.theage.com.au/?rid=38987) Qantas union warning on 'scabs' (http://media.theage.com.au/?rid=38987)
Qantas engineers warn the airline not to try employing 'scab' strike breakers.

QANTAS passengers will face more disruptions and cancellations, with the airline last night informed of a fresh round of rolling strikes by its licensed engineers.

The escalation of the dispute comes as yesterday's industrial action hit services hard, with 35 flights cancelled nationally by 4pm - nearly twice as many as the airline had predicted.
Some 22 flights to and from Melbourne were cancelled. Some passengers suffered delays of up to six hours.
Qantas' executive general manager of people, Kevin Brown, said the strikes were causing "more and more disruptions" but said the airline would get all passengers to their destinations on the day.
There will be some cancellations today and tomorrow, but most of the trouble will be on Friday. The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association has confirmed there will be a range of stoppages of at least four hours in Sydney, Melbourne, Avalon, Perth and Brisbane.
Association president Paul Cousins said the union was prepared to reconsider Friday's strike action if Qantas met it with a changed offer.
"The ball is in Qantas' court. They can stop this dispute at any time by coming back to the table with a reasonable offer that we can take out to our members and have (it) approved," he said.
The union says Qantas still has not budged from its original offer of a 3% pay rise to engineers. The union is asking for 5%.
Mr Brown said the airline would not meet the union while it was causing considerable disruption to Qantas customers.
Discussions between the ACTU, engineers and Qantas broke down on June 12.
Qantas has started using managers, all of whom it has said are qualified aircraft engineers, to plug the gaps when maintenance workers walk off the job. But Mr Cousins said the union was concerned at the safety compliance of those managers.
He noted that 457 visa laws would prevent Qantas from hiring foreign workers to replace local engineers. "They'll have to use a scab labour force ... which numbers well less than 100 and I don't believe they'll be able to conduct the work that 1500 highly skilled Qantas engineers do around the country."
Jetstar was forced to cancel a flight from Melbourne to Bali last night because it was unable to get mechanical work done in time for the plane's departure.
Passenger Jaz Cooper, who was travelling with two small children, said Jetstar staff simply told him the "plane is stuck in Sydney".
A spokeswoman later confirmed the plane was delayed in Sydney because it needed mechanical work, but industrial action had prevented the work being done in time.
Jetstar paid for accommodation for some interstate passengers, while local residents were simply told to go home and return for the rescheduled flight this morning.

This one I googled this morning, in fact if you Google Qantas News, ALAEA Qantas etc you will get all the media and there are heaps
http://ffxd-images.adbureau.net/ffxd/accipiter/images/AE12.gif (http://direct.fairfax.com.au/accipiter/adclick/CID=fffffffcfffffffcfffffffc/acc_random=clbhezq,begdjqleofw/AAMSZ=638X68/SITE=ONL.MH.AGE.TRAVEL/AREA=TRAVEL.AGE.TRAVEL/CAT=TRAVEL/CAT1=/CAT2=/ISIFRAME=/ADTYPE=/POS=bottom/CTYPE=STORY/pageid=clbhezq,begdjqleofw)

[max1]

Good on you engineers
I have also been listening and watching the news (as an interested third party observer) and speaking to people affected. Don't be despondent , nearly all are on your side.

Alot of people outside are in the same position as you, being told to take scraps or nothing while CEOs and management flunkies hand themselves outrageous rises on the back of your O/T and productivity.

GD stated that Qantas have an engineering record second to none, he should be asked who made that reputation and who maintains it. It doesn't matter how many managers you have in ivory towers, it is the person on the tools with their PROFESSIONAL pride who wont cut corners who maintains and guards that reputation, that they are rightly proud of.

It is this professional pride that these parasites have been gouging on.Not just you lot, but your pilots, F/As, check-in staff, and all the others proud to work for the WhiteRat.

Unfortunately this is a management trait that has swung through most of corporate Australia. Hopefully, when the media see which way the wind is blowing, they'll do a 180 and pretend they are on the side of the 'man in the street' and rage against corporate excesses.Remember Bondy was a darling then a ratbag.

Good luck, you have heaps of support even if you don't realise it.

[Ngineer]

Heard Geoff on the ABC yesterday defending his high wage, because he is in control of a $15bill company. I could not see the logic of paying highly someone in control of a large sum of money, yet paying people sh%t who are in control of a large sum of lives?

Talk about losing the plot.

Max1, Cheers mate.:ok:

[The Mainland]

Perth Stop Work 1100-1500 was canx, due no Snr Exec able to attend (maybe couldn't be gauranteed to get an on-time flight). Large Penis was visibly upset when informed. All was quiet when Large Penis told the Eng's he was going to bring on our brothers with no conscience to help out. The decision was then made to pull the guys out for the remander of the original stop work time approx 1400-1500. They went back at 1500 and the other workers were gone.

It is reported that Aqua Man doesn't know which way to point an aircraft on pushback.

QF580 was not cancelled as a result of Industrial Action. It was canx before Stop Work time of 1100 and it was because it was BROKEN! as was the case for the Jumbo in Sunday night, not Ind Action, BROKEN!

[UPPERLOBE]

The media relies on advertising revenue.

Major airlines have huge advertising budgets.

[TastyBurger]

The media relies on advertising revenue.

Major airlines have huge advertising budgets.

Hence the only major hammering the rat has received has been by the ABC

Good luck boys, keep pushing the man. The Aussie public is behind you!

[blubak]

Well MR ceo,they are the words u used on abc radio yesterday,u should now have a look at what the alaea are saying-words along the line of-if qf want to talk seriously we will consider calling off the stop work on friday.
Sounds like a fair deal to me-show the travelling public and all of your people that you do want to work with them and make a commitment to give us something fair and your troubles will be over.
UP TO YOU!!

[1me]

There were once two nations that didn't get along and it so happened that they ended up squaring off on the battle field.. Now one of those nations were Phillistines; big ugly brutes with a mean disposition and possibly questionable hygiene standards..but I digress.

The other nation were Israelites..good people and nowhere near as big and mean as the Phillistines. (and they had much better hygiene standards!!)

Everyday the Phillistines would bring to their front line Goliath; the biggest, ugliest, meanest and smelliest creature that had ever lived. He would bellow and curse and cause a general ruckus (sp) and would cause the Israelites to doubt their ability to win the battle. In fact so powerful was Goliath that a lot of the Israelites thought that they were going to be dead meat on the battlefield.

Meanwhile... Davo was at home on the family farm tending to the sheep as he always did. Being young he was not permitted to fight in the army as his brothers were.

Davo's old man called him in from the field one day and asked him to grab a swag and go and take his brothers some tucker and other goodies to improve their morale and let them know that their old man was thinking of them.

So being the good son he packed his swag and set off.

After a bit of a trip he arrived at the place where his brothers and the rest of the blokes were camped and Goliath was at it again, cursing and mocking and just being a general pain in the a$$. The Israelites were getting a bit scared at this constant abuse and their resolve was weakened.

Now Saul, the Israelite King was getting fed up with the drivel proceeding from the mouth of the ogre and offered great reward to any who defeat the Phillistine.

Davo asked the blokes why no-one would take him on but the Israelites had little courage left to confront Goliath in battle due to the constant barrage of warmongering and abuse.

"Bugger this!! I'll go and fight him myself!!" said Davo. When the king heard this he called Davo over.. "Hey Davo come over here and put this armour of mine on. It's probably a little big because you're only a boy but it might just stop you getting the stuffing knocked out of you."

"Mate this stuff weighs a bloody tonne!! I won't be able to move. How on earth do you fight in this clobber?? Thanks king but I'll be right!" Davo said.

He removed the armour and went and picked up 5 smooth stones from the river near by, and pulling his sling out of his swag he went out and confronted Goliath.

Again Goliath mocked "Who the hell are you boy!!? What? You think you can beat me? HA!!"
"Too right you ugly brute!" said Davo.

As Goliath moved in to attack him, Davo ran to the battle line grabbed one of his stones and slung it at Goliath. The stone buried itself in Goliath's forehead and he fell down dead!!

Seeing their hero dead the Phillistines turned and ran and Israelites gave chase; eventually putting them to the sword.

Upon returning to the camp the Israelites came over to Davo and there were attaboy's all round before someone asked: " Why did you pick 5 stones up? Did you think you'd miss?"

"Nah!! I thought he had four brothers!!"

The End.

[off-sked]

Ballhopper,

I too want to see this dispute end, however, management is to blame for the brand damage. This dispute didn't just begin. Management had every chance to prevent the brand damage resulting from our o/t bans coupled with their own policies of short staffing and providing insufficient ground time for maintenance.

Recent history has proven that management will restructure when ever they see fit. Of course they will blame this campain, just as they have blamed sars, 9/11, oil etc for all the change that they have already inflicted on a once world leading organisation.

As for compromise, It is not our turn.:cool:

[wantsta]

Any one else heard the rumour coming from Cathy and Virgin boys that we are all getting the arse in three weeks

FUD where do they get these rumours from?


lol, how many seperate sources from cathay and vt have u heard this from ????

No doubt spun by QF management in a hope that it will be spread around the network to instill fear amongst the troops.

QF's hopefull outcomes:

"Come on boys,let's take the 3% and start doing ot again, we can't win, they're too strong"

lol, what a joke.

M8 if that happens,there'll be plenty of people rubbing they're hands together for a cr package which is worth considerably more than vr.

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

CR AND VR are the same amounts,but none the less i'm sure there would a cue a mile long to get a pay out to leave

[sickofqf]

Come on fellas,

The network is on the verge of collapse from OT bans and the odd stop work.:ok:

What the heck do you think would happen if they sacked us....which they CAN'T.....PIA....that's about ALL it protects.:ugh:


20odd ( and I mean ODD) scabs won't help them.:{


There will be NO sackings. Trust Me !! :E


Not on the floor anyhow!! :ok:

[Slackjaw]

It's not us, its the company that is prolonging this dispute, in fact they refused to negotiate 18 months ago.

Now it's GD who is taking this personally, he is singularly damaging the company by refusing to share any of the success he rode in on. He climbed on the back of a good company and a booming economy and claimed he was brilliant. In fact he tried to take it all (APA). And those underlings he has implanted in his arse are smacking their lips at the spoils they've been promised (did they not know that they'd be left out in the cold too? S'pose tapeworms don't have brains, they can eat the s**t their hosts gives them all day long).

Too bad GD will cut them loose the moment things go bad (i.e QF freight). Too bad they have no credibility and the bitterness will continue as long GD and those perceived to have aligned themselves with him are in QF.

Yes I hope it ends soon too. Clean cut no anesthesia.

So long as GD's cronies are there we'll remember. FOG

[Syd eng]

Any one else heard the rumour coming from Cathy and Virgin boys that we are all getting the arse in three weeks

FUD where do they get these rumours from?

Heard the same rumour on Monday

[QF94]

There may be no sackings, yet, but with what's happening at S.I.T. with all our major customers being told to look elsewhere for their transit maintenance, they have done so, and still manage to keep their schedules. The issue is, these customers (BA, NZ, MH, JAL, etc) may not return. These were supposed to be QF's "Tier 1" customers. If any of them decide not to come back, particularly NZ, how many engineers won't they need? Remember when SQ was given the heave ho and told to go? We lost 20 guys just out of S.I.T.

If there aren't sackings, there may be redundancies, of which I'm sure there will be quite a queue, but that will be at the discretion of the management if there is an excess of guys wanting to go, and they'll decide to keep the guys wanting to go most, just to tick them off.

Anyway, at least the action is putting more stress on FOD FOG as he is showing signs of wear, and the management team is in a fluster as to what to do. Maybe we can remove the board and engineering management from service and place them alongside EAA and EAB in the Mojave desert just as a token of our appreciation for all they've done to QF, the staff and the customers.

[Dr Itzfukt]

Bring it on, and wrap my package in a ribbon!

[UP D Date]

Any one else heard the rumour coming from Cathy and Virgin boys that we are all getting the arse in three weeks

FUD where do they get these rumours from?
http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=4202103)

More desperate rumors from the third floor:rolleyes: Someone should tell them that they've cried wolf too many times!!! Their are a lot of stressed managers around, if you haven't noticed, the airline is slowly grinding to a halt around them, and they told Geoffrey it couldn't happen:E

I heard the fat controller himself was trying to squeeze Tech svces to issue an EA to get the QF1 out yesterday........Even though it wasn't an airbus.......Does this mean RH isnt up to the challenge.....:E

[chksatis]

so is it only sydney that (TG) has told the airlines to look elsewhere, or is it BIT,PIT,MIT as well? Just hope those airlines like BA and NZ do the same to qantas at stations like SFO,FRA,LHR,JFK and AKL then QF will really know whats hit them.

[off-sked]

Just hope those airlines like BA and NZ do the same to qantas at stations like SFO,FRA,LHR,JFK and AKL then QF will really know whats hit them.

There is every chance that the above airlines are run by managers who understand that customer work makes money and allows more engineers to be on shift (payed for by the customers) so as to deal with any unforseen maintenance issues with their own aircraft.

Dumping customer contracts is a short sighted, dumb idea and other airlines will not likely follow qantas' example.:cool:

[QF94]

That's all I know about. TG obviously has no sense when it comes to customer satisfaction. I burns me to see our competitors doing our job. Even the customers are giving each other a hand, and QF management have point blank said no to any help requested by our paying customers.

This may be one way of downsizing the work force by ticking off the airline customers, blaming the LAME's for the dispute and then laying off all the "excess" guys left behind when there are no customers to service.

Anyone else in other ports told not to service customer airlines? Or is this just a SYD eccentricity by TG?

[lamem]

It certainly applies to BNE and MEL as well. All contracts gone.

[QF94]

"Dumping customer contracts is a short sighted, dumb idea and other airlines will not likely follow qantas' example."

Say no more. This seems to be the "ideology" of our numbskull management who wouldn't know the front end of an aeroplane from the back end or who pay to fly with us. The shareholders are the ones that make the airline profitable and get the passengers to where they're going. Not engineering, pilots, cabin crew, check-in etc.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[hadagutfull]

Well if these idiots want to get rid of customers, then lets help them!!!!
So we can devote all of our efforts to the red tail, GIVE JETSTAR AND ATLAS 3 DAYS NOTICE THAT YOU WILL NOT BE HANDLING THEM!!!!:=

Anyone with the Atlas or Jetstar ticket- write an email to Quality and risk advising them to make "inactive" these qualifications on EQ.As it is not a paid bolt on, you got nothing to loose!:ok:

As these parasites are also customers, they should be treated the same way as the rest of them were... we dont want to be seen to show favourites here!! (mind you, we are the ones getting screwed by J* and their extremely favourable maint agreement) .

To all the customer airlines, they should be advised by the Fed Sec that we want to keep them, but the stupidity and armagedan tactics of those :mad:wits on the 3rd floor has overruled us.

I hope they take legal action against these twits for breach of contract and I hope they screw these :mad:ts over at overseas stations that handle the red rat!!

How much longer will they let DC and MH and I suspect TG go on with this childish and very very dangerous behaviour..... :ugh::ugh::ugh:
you lot sicken me!!:yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk::yuk:

[UP D Date]

The only reason the contracts went was MH and DC's last chance to save their collective backsides and attempt to improve the red rats despatch reliability, and clear the tsunami of workload that is building up...... Minimal, and I repeat minimal 'A' chk maint is getting done in Lax etc, certainly no OSIP, OJA was turned around out of syd yest with over 800 hrs on the sheets, and sent back out.... if their was 800 hrs scheduled, the true figure would be closer to 1000 :\

[Bolty McBolt]

I have not checked but is it possible to remove qualifications from eQ?
????
Interesting ?
:ok:

[1me]

The old saying "Happy wife - happy life!" could be equally applied to employees. If the workers are happy then productivity increases. If the workers are unhappy productivity falls... Hardly rocket science..

Begs the question then: "Who would you like to see running the company and why?"

[sickofqf]

Expect the intimidation and harrassment to get worse in the next week or two, DC and MH are like cornered tigers....... :eek:

They fear their imminent destruction and will lash out like frightened schoolgirls....... :yuk:

[wantsta]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif[/IMG] http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=4202233)


Withdrawel of engineering services for only small amounts of time recently, certainly hasn't done the share price much good lately has it, or am I missing something ???

Got to disagree with the last part of your statement here m8,I beg to differ.

Ask anyone who flies anywhwere in the world what is the most influential reason they would fly Qantas and see what the answer is.

Qantas "profits" ride on the very coat tails of their safety record. Shareholders are just on for the ride. How many people do you know going out and buying Garuda shares.

[1me]

wantsta I think you misinterpreted the statement. There was a cynical element to it.. You are both agreeing.

[magoo31]

Remember the good old days at SIT, when customer contracts were something the Manager was proud to be awarded and did everything possible to get them.

That was only a few years ago before the rot set in.

Started with the removal of KP from M's grand scheme.

Followed shortly after by PC.

That list of customer airlines we handled in SIT made QE money and offset the cost of the SIT QF operation.

What a f:mad:ken joke you've made of things M.

Bring back BD, KP and PC.

Rant over.

[wantsta]

wantsta I think you misinterpreted the statement. There was a cynical element to it.. You are both agreeing.

I stand corrected,apologies. Slight misinterpritation on my behalf.

[justforme]

Very recently, G:mad:D was traveling on a Qantas flight.
The boarding F/A was told to not say his name when he passed through the boarding area. (F/A's are told to use pax names when boarding them)

The F/A noticed that G:mad:D was standing in the gatelounge facing a pole so no one could see his face.:)

F/A became busy boarding pax, doing her job as per Qantas requirements and as a result forgot about the likes of G:mad:D and consequently used his name while passing his boarding pass through the reader.

Upon hearing Mr:mad:D name, the surrounding boarding pax realized whose company they were in, began abusing the s..t out of him HAHAHA one very red faced G:mad:D and scared F/A boarded the flight.

See, The public ARE on your side........ Don't give up the fight now!

[sickofqf]

according to a poster on HotCopper QF are spending $495K on fuel to send an aircraft to USA and back empty for a-checks...... :eek:

Surely it's not that much....that would be lunacy.....

[EWANQF]

I too see it,Would'nt Kerry O'Brien love that snippet of info.Only 4 more of those checks in LAX and our EBA 5%+5%+5% could have been paid for:ok:

[1me]

well stranger things have happened... And really, given the way they have acted thus far, it wouldn't surprise me..

[justforme]

Does any body know what percentage turned up to the stopwork meetings around the country?

[vortsa]

According to a poster on HotCopper QF are spending $495K on fuel to send an aircraft to USA and back empty for a-checks......

Surely it's not that much....that would be lunacy.....

Thats OK they have plenty of fuel to spare now they are canceling 25 flts a day.

I wonder with all this excess fuel around the price of fuel will come down. ????
Supply and demand .

[Konehead]

Remember when SQ was given the heave ho and told to go? We lost 20 guys just out of S.I.T.

Correct, done at the behest of beancounters and now SIT can only operate day-to-day with masses of overtime and limited leave! Even the beancounters say "yeah we made a mistake getting rid of so many at SIT." WOOPS!

[SeldomFixit]

I asked when the first round of customers were given up but didn't see a reply or at least didn't scroll back that far. Now that all contracts have been terminated ( Is that correct ) who is doing the work, are they taking on Q staff who want to close the door on the shambles it seems to have become and realistically how much cash has Management put into a bag and burnt by ending these contracts ? :(

[Long Bay Mauler]

Sources from the West last night say that the "Alternate Workforce" worked VH-OJA due to 3 outta 4 Classics laid up.

Can anyone else verify this?

Apparently xx,xx & xx found it in their hearts to help the Perth boys out.

But they couldnt look the boys straight in the eyes.:=

Shows the lack of training from Qantas management when there is no 744 licences on shift in a busy airport.

[Toolpants]

Don't know about OJA But;
My info is Perth are still handling their customers but the customers have brought their own engineer incase of trouble. I could be wrong.

[Qmart]

Hi All,

As a QF engineer also involved in all of this I can only hope that together we all stick together.

Rumors doing the circuit in BNE at the moment is GD intends to lock us out next month and then we individually recieve phone calls after a week to see if we are willng to come back to work for 3%.

My plee to all is that we just stick together. If we don't then we are defeated. Don't let this turn into another 89'

[Dockie]

TJU is fresh out of Lumpa Koala Poo [21 days late but that's is OK] and straight into the Hangar at Mel. Still there 6 days later. Captains #1 window changed because possible cleaning with scotchbrite and a 4 inch throttle stagger among other things. The information that we are getting from the guys that went there is almost unbelieveable. Task cards being signed off without doing the job etc etc. Where the hell is CASA?
Aah! Outsourcing is such a wonderful thing but remember safety will never be compromised.
DC assured us that sending the 737 overflow to Lumpa Koala Poo would be a wonderful thing because it is a world class facility. It's just a pity that they don't have world class maintenance staff. And no DC I'm not zenophobic.

[sickofqf]

Hi All,

As a QF engineer also involved in all of this I can only hope that together we all stick together.

Rumors doing the circuit in BNE at the moment is GD intends to lock us out next month and then we individually recieve phone calls after a week to see if we are willng to come back to work for 3%.

My plee to all is that we just stick together. If we don't then we are defeated. Don't let this turn into another 89'

Qmart,

P@ss off stooge.

You and your views are so stupid that it could only be an attempt to scare people, there will be no lock out. Nothing would leave the ground, especially Brissy, who would do the 767 a checks that are being diverted from SYD base..........IDIOT!!!!


You dumb twerps need us more than we need you !!!!
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=


Qmart.......Qantas Martin........hmmmmmmm

[Big M]

I was wondering if someone could give me an update on the progress of M's magical 'Four Pillars' strategy. That was a little gem pulled from a management textbook somewhere. One would think that fantastic, well thought out initiatives like these would be having all engineers 'pulling' in the same direction !! Are the pillars still holding the roof up ???


PPRUNE even has an emoticon for QE pillars ----> :ugh:

All those dollars spent on talks and seminars at hotels, all those 'Deliverance' trips down the river. Master strokes of management. :yuk:



:E :E :E :E :E :E hehehehehehe

[UPPERLOBE]

Look at those lovely pillars at the SIT, ah well Murphy's law will show that it's all Bollocks! :}

[biTch]

Guys, think your barking up the wrong tree.
Heard the same rumour mentioned by qmart today.

He has a valid concern, however it is a RUMOUR. All of us should make decisions based on FACTS ONLY. Attacking people with concerns is not productive.

However, events that have occurred in the past and events that MAY occur in the future are usually linked by conspiracy theorists and I like to base my decisions on reality and a good stiff drink. So time to take five .................. and stick together!!



Something that is fact is:

Some chocolate starfish licking, lowlife, truth challenged, mirror kissing scum accused the Brissy engineers today of purposely delaying the LA bound flight after doing a damned good job of getting it as serviceable as soon as humanly possible. An unsigned company notice was given to the passengers blaming the delay on engineer's industrial action.

Geez, a bit of massaging of the truth is probably a bit two way at the moment BUT, a straight out, total lie handed to the punters??? ... and you couldn't even put your name to it!!

If anyone responsible for that incredible piece of utter rot is reading this. SHAME ON YOU.
I hope your family never knows the depths to which you are prepared to sink. You sicken me and only prove the direction this company is heading. I received a copy and I couldn't believe what I was reading. That notice is now being circulated to everyone I know ......... plus the FACTS.

Time to Take 5 again .................:suspect::suspect:
Also those of you using "FOD" and "FOG" etc to access the online manuals. Please stop so I can have a go. :E

[Big M]

Any one else heard the rumour coming from Cathy and Virgin boys that we are all getting the arse in three weeks

For those who want to go down the Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt route, I refer you to section 448 of The Commonwealth of Australia Workplace Relations Act 1996.



"448
Employer not to dismiss employee etc. for engaging in protected
action
(1) An employer must not:
(a) dismiss an employee, injure an employee in his or her
employment or alter the position of an employee to the
employee’s prejudice; or
(b) threaten to dismiss an employee, injure an employee in his or
her employment or alter the position of an employee to the
employee’s prejudice;
wholly or partly because the employee is proposing to engage, is
engaging, or has engaged, in protected action."


:ok:


However, the Act does give a fair bit of(lots) of latitude for them to play dirty and is basically legalised 'buggery' so this statement by sickofqf may be true (especially the schoolgirl bit)


Expect the intimidation and harrassment to get worse in the next week or two, DC and MH are like cornered tigers....... They fear their imminent destruction and will lash out like frightened schoolgirls


Don't be intimidated by the thugs, we're not on any go slow, we're merely doing our jobs and complying
with all legal obligations that go with certifying and maintaining aircraft with hundreds of lives onboard.

[sickofqf]

Qmart,

If you are genuine then I in turn genuinely apologise.

Unfortunately we here at prune are used to seeing management stooges who have signed up minutes earlier come on here and spread Fear and Uncertainty pretty much like you did, then resort to pathetic abuse as soon as they are rumbled, as you did.

We are sick of them and they get jumped on immediately and complaints go to the mods instantly.

therefore, if you are a stooge you will soon be gone. If you are genuine, hang around, get the vibe, stop worrying and be positive.

Negative, worrying nellies undermine any campaign and are not welcome.


I repeat again, THEY need us more than WE need them.


there are not many engineers in Australia, or even the world at present.....there are hundreds of middle managers...THEY are expendable !!!
:ok:

[Konehead]

I pray the rumour is true. I would SO love to chew out the :mad: on the other end of the line and threaten legal action if they ring me again - although on what grounds I don't quite know yet! :O
CR instead of VR: bring it on baby! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand VR is taxed at your marginal rate. CR has a more favourable tax treatment - 5%, leaving you with more in real terms. Correct?

[sickofqf]

I draw to all your attentions a snippet from Hotcopper;

The Civil Aviation Safety Authority legislates that there has to be a minimum amount of Licensed Engineers for RPT operations!.And would't you know , it 1500 is about the minimum number.

:eek:

Hmm.....guess 28 'alternate workers' doesn't quite cut it............ :ugh:


As I keep saying.....

THERE WILL BE NO LOCKOUT

and in case you really don't believe me.......FOG itself has said it ad-infinitum. ;)


oh crikey............he seldom tells the whole truth........oh crap!! :p

breathe easy and re-read the quote........
:ok:

[Short_Circuit]

deleted deleted

[EWANQF]

Good 1 sickof qf:ok:.Now all you guys out there google hotcopper join up and join into the QAN share forum discussion,it's starting to heat up.They r telling the so called "Daytraders" wot this company is about and the truth.And guess wot?,this is the#1 viewed Australian Shares Forum for Daytraders,and these blokes like money and the way the discussion is going most want to bail.Seems like Darth was their hero, but not after wot they have been told.THE FACTS!!:ok:

[Short_Circuit]

So, now they have screwed the employees, the customer & the shareholder. Who is next? :}
Or should I say, who is left? :ooh:


Oh yes, the incoming Labour Government (Kevin Rudd). Remember when he (GD) warned you, not to fiddle with "Work Choices" or else!

Hmmmmmm

[sfde]

I think you've got GD and his management team all wrong. I have faith that they can turn this 5% onslaught into another record profit. They would want to because I'm already thinking 8% for EBA 9.

[vortsa]

And is EBA 9 only 6 months away????

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Hello ladies and gentlemen. Just to let everyone know, this coming Friday, all employees in Brisbane Heavy Maintenance will be voting on whether to accept the insertion of a flexibilities clause into their EBA's. This will be for Brisbane Heavy maintenance staff only.

All unions are being asked to vote for their respective EBA's. If any one union fails to agree by majority, then then the whole flexibilities document will be dead and buried according to Dixon.

Our last chance to get A330's in the door!

No more chances after this guys, this is urgent! More urgent than it was back in December 2006!! No. Maybe just as urgent as then. Who knows. It's urgent, apparently!

What's more important guys?

struggling to keep up with the cost of living and never knowing what roster you will be working in two weeks time but having a shiny new aeroplane to play with for the next 10 to 15 years?

Or maybe fighting for a fair wage outcome and having an old bucket of crap to work on for the next 2-5 years?

Friday is decision day!

[NAS1801]

So what about Tullamarine? Isn't it a bit sus that they seemed to have dropped their push for the same flexibilities crap for melbourne blokes? Tell them to shove it.

[600ft-lb]

Maybe they're intent is the close Tullamarine. They have been in the firing line for some time now. Who knows what these turkey's are thinking.

Regardless, its not an EBA issue, 5% is.

[Sunfish]

Interesting to see some new trolls around spreading FUD (Fear Uncertainty Doubt). Be aware that the tempo of this stuff will increase to a crescendo before QF management buckles. There will also be a lot more dirty tricks, perhaps leading up to a major provocation.

What will finally bite Mr. Dixon's backside is his shareholders, you know, the ones he thinks that make the airline run. I think the view of the shareholders is ultimately going to be that they want an airline with a long term prospects, not the short termist stuff that Mr. Dixon keeps serving up, but then he is retiring shortly isn't he? Might there therefore not be a temptation to maximise retirement income with one last enormous profit at the expense of long term profitability?

DO exactly as your Fed. Sec. says, no more, no less.

[chanel1234]

Sunfish is correct,i think it will get very nasty soon, Read page 9 of the SMH.

Mendearo might be in a spot of bother, especially if they decide to supeona him, intersting times

batten down the hatches lads

[Roy&HG]

Are Qantas in alittle bit of a panic with the Senate about to be handed over to Labour , out with all the old IR laws and who was the biggest provider to Howard in the Liberal IR circus before the election !!!! ;)
This has now turned to a battle of Respect and not Money, to stand up to the big management who come in and make storming changes, collect their massive pay packets then leave with a exit bonus and leave it for the worker to get the company back on its feet again .
From GD own mouth he gets the big bucks because he is looking after a 15 Billion dollar company so $6 Million is ok. Well are the LAME not maintaining most of that 15 Billion dollar company and 5% is too much !!!!!!!!
Do us all a favour fall on the sword and head back to Wagga and pour Beers !

[poison pen]

Have a look around you and you will see the airline slowly coming to a slow but grinding halt.

Qf are still canceling flights from work stoppages that occurred two days ago.
And only then we had half of us out.

Maintain the the forward momentum for the PIA and always do as the FED EXEC say's no more or no less.

Look out for your peers and help them.

Talking to friends yesterday in ref to the work stoppages and they are fully supportive of it. One of them is flying out tomorrow to Jo Burg and is prepared for the flight from hell.

We have come so far lets not turn back now. Look that little bit harder and snag everything in sight.

[sickofqf]

Slight change in sentiment from the press this morning as QF cancel 25 flights from Sydney.....

keep chipping at the wall guys, common sense will prevail as the press realise the public sentiment is with us not FOG.

Expect the SP to drop to mid 2.90's today and FOG's phone to start ringing more often..........

Also expect the intimidation to ratchet up this weekend as the small-minded yes-men fight for their careers.......:=

[empire4]

can someone please PM the scab list? i havn't seen one down south.

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

the only way i see a stop to this dispute is for GD to retire due to health reasons,and the new CEO to settle this,as this is now killing the company and this is Geoff's only way to save face I HAD TO GO DUE TO HEALTH REASONS,I WOULD LOVE TO STAY BUT!!!!!!:ok:

[Millet Fanger]

Just heard the Fed Sec on ABC radio in SYD. Clear and concise, didn't get flustered by any questions, didn't tell the ABC host "don't tell me how to run an Aircraft Engineers Association". Didn't attempt to boast about how important he was, unlike a certain airline CEO recently. Dispelled the lies that GD has been spreading. Answered all listener's questions well. Good Job!

You could teach a certain two highly paid Qantas managers a thing or two about how to handle a media interview - but who would want to have anything to do with them?

[Sunfish]

The Age is reporting QF allegations that QF staff are/will try to "intimidate" their "complementary" workers (their term for scabs), and told the AGE about an alleged "scab list" posted on the internet.

May I suggest that you post nothing related to scabs identity anywhere.

Make a mental note of who they are and perhaps share that information with others after the dispute is over.

And of course be absolute sweetness to them while the dispute continues. All it takes is one slanging match, or thrown punch, and your public support, PIA and EBA is in jeopardy.....But I expect you already know that.


Do what your Fed. Sec. says, no more, no less.

By the way, I forget who posted it, but someone posted words to the effect that:

"It takes longer to become a LAME than it does to become a Qantas Co-Pilot".

Now, with no disrespect to pilots, THAT is a sound bite that the public will understand.

It encapsulates your situation, professionalism and need for good remuneration in a flash.

[F.O.G.]

Sunfish....

Wasn't my little starfish cleaner 'M' the first to be seen using the S word ?

I could be wrong but I'm sure an underling mentioned it whilst wiping me......

love always


FOG

[blackd]

Hi PPRuNe's,
To those who follow the share market, check out the latest price of Qantas ($3.07). Shares are on the way up again. Why? A major injection of capital from US investment companies.

This follows the board meeting in NY recently. What was said, or promised, to make a US bank & an investment company buy 20 million plus shares (at an average price of $3.2228 :eek:) at time when the 'legacy' airline looks to be teetering on collapse? Could this be a fighting fund to make sure QF has the money to last through to an '89-style pilots dispute-type ending: ie lockout-outs and dismissals?

You guess is as good as mine, but I offer this advice: look out for some unexpected moves from management. This could get a lot worse.

Good luck to the ALAEA members for a speedy and equatable resolution of this dispute.

ASX details here:
QAN Company Announcements (http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/announcementSearch.do?method=searchByCode&issuerCode=QAN&releasedDuringCode=T)

[Jets on]

Sorry for the late reply.
I have been a member of ALAEA for over 25 years . I am so impressed with the membership, starting from the federal executive team down. With this unification, we have received the respect and support that we needed in this dispute. As GD said in the ‘Australian’ , the airline has changed forever.
The arrogance of DC telling the media that the new maintenance program is being implemented and no, they didn’t consult the engineers, they will use what we tell them to use.
Rumour has it that The Fat Controller has accused his 330 crews of sabotage. So much for loyalty.
He still doesn’t realise. His bulls***t about not needing licenses as we are not the PREFERRED customer is one of the reasons why his a/c are late for departure. How can you work four a/c when you only have 1 a/frame and 1 avionic licence on shift?
Even if the Rudd government ends our PIA we can still voluntarily not do O/T and continue our cause.
Good on ya fellas, the end is in sight.:ok:

[SpannerTwister]

Melbourne forecast for Friday

A shower or two clearing later. A partly cloudy day with moderate westerly winds.

SpannerTwister

[chanel1234]

Sunfish.

The list has been published on the internet, and is inacurate, the chap i spoke to said he he had nothing to do with it , yet appeared on it

I think someboty is in deep shiiiiyte

[Big Unit]

The Fat Controller has accused his 330 crews of sabotage. So much for loyalty.


No surprises there. That megalomaniac (A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence) better pull his head in soon. There is plenty of fat left to trim off that bone. :E:E

Sad thing is, I respected that guy only a few years back for what he appeared to be doing for us. How times have changed.

[Shrug]

On 2GB Ray Hadley mentioned he has received an email where an aircraft was serviced OS. When it returned, the windscreen needed replacing as it had been cleaned with scotchbrite (while OS) and scratched!

Is that true? Apparently he is chasing it up with Qantas tomorrrow.

[splashman]

Ahh, sunny long off place, I saw a quick view of names of complementry workforce a few days ago, Anyone care to PM me list, when this is over and I see a resume, I will remember...., and in the round file it goes.

Splashman has splashed!!!!, those who know will understand!!!!!:p:ooh::=:ok:

[Toolpants]

Sydney travellers have been hardest hit by more Qantas cancellations today.

Twenty-six flights have been scrapped from today's domestic schedule and all of them were in or out of Sydney, according to a spokeswoman.

And there is more pain on the short term horizon for the national carrier after the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA)confirmed more strikes were planned around the country for tomorrow and Saturday.

Strikes this week by the ALAEA over pay have left scores of flights cancelled, angry passengers stranded and the airline reeling.
"While there's no strike action today, some flights are still being affected by the strike earlier this week and the ALAEA's ongoing overtime bans," a Qantas spokeswoman said.

The short term outlook remains gloomy for the national carrier and the airline is warning passengers to brace for further pain.
"Yes there will be [cancellations] tomorrow," the spokeswoman said.
"At this stage we expect the engineers to strike."
The spokeswoman said the airline had contacted passengers affected by today's flight disruptions and was confident of accommodating them all on other flights today.

She was unable to comment on whether Qantas was considering offering the engineers more than the three per cent pay rise currently on the table. The engineers are campaigning for a five per cent rise.

ALAEA federal president Paul Cousins said strikes were planned for tomorrow in Sydney, Brisbane, Perth and Melbourne's Avalon Airport.
On Saturday, strikes will take place in Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth.

Unlike strikes earlier in the week, which took place early in the morning, Mr Cousins said the next two days of strikes would be at various times during the period from 2pm to 1am.

Mr Cousins offered a glimmer of hope that the dispute could be nearing an end.

"At the moment we have had some positive discussions with Qantas management and we would look forward to having a meeting perhaps soon, but it will be up to Qantas to decide. The ball's in their court," he said.

Mr Cousins said it would "not rule out" a meeting taking place today or tomorrow but the most likely scenario would be early next week.

[F.O.G.]

Is that true? Apparently he is chasing it up with Qantas tomorrrow.


sure is :eek:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/4202504-post3076.html

[youwishyouknew]

On 2GB Ray Hadley mentioned he has received an email where an aircraft was serviced OS. When it returned, the windscreen needed replacing as it had been cleaned with scotchbrite (while OS) and scratched!Yes I can confirm this is true. Left Malaysia and has been in Melbourne since (approx week). Had the Capt #1 window replaced due to what looked liked it had been "polished" with scotchbrite. Also got to Melbourne (somehow) with a 3 knob throttle stagger. Last I heard there was an MEC change going on after preliminary tests. There was also numerous other items including an AD that they apparently "missed".

But this is all out of a different budget of course so the Malaysian heavy checks look cost efficient, even though they were late also. From what I have heard, you wouldn't send your toughest competitors aircraft there. Things getting signed off before anyone even looking at it. There was something to do with a couple of Indian airlines losing there (possibly?) EASA approvals due to the maintenance performed at this MRO. The only way to receive it back was to black ban this same facility. :eek:

But Qantas will be ok...its cheaper than us apparently. When is the "TOTAL COST" for this sort of maintenance going to be released and what about the "TOTAL COST" for not giving us the extra 2% that we deserve. :ugh:

ARGH......:*

[Gen Y]

Well done Fed. Sec. and Fed. Pres. - both couldn't have done better on air in my opinion.

It is a shame neither had the opportunity to reply to D!xon's comments at the end of the interview though. Where does he get off telling everyone we get a 3-4% bonus each year? His final statement that we'd get a 3% pay rise plus 1% super and a 3% bonus makes our wage claim sound unreasonable to anyone that doesn't know it is TOTAL BULL:mad:!

Maintain the rage guys. And let no defect go undocumented.:ok:

[wantsta]

can anyone post a link for todays abc interview ???

-.-- --- ..- .-. / .-. . .. --. -. / .... . .-. . / .- - / --.- .- -. - .- ... / .. ... / ..-. .. -. .. ... .... . -.. / -.. .. -.-. -.- --- --..-- / .. - ... / - .. -- . / -.-- --- ..- / .--. .. ... ... . -.. / --- ..-. ..-. / .- -. -.. / - .- -.- . / -.-- --- ..- .-. / .-.. .. -.-. -.- / .- ... ... . ... / .-- .. - .... / -.-- --- ..- .-.-.- /

[PIOT Bord]

Just got off the phone to a friend/contact in scheduling (Her day off). I am reliably informed that roughly 30% of QF cancellations yesterday had nothing to do with aircraft serviceability or our PIA action. The cancellations occurred because of "yield management".

Apparently forward bookings for Qantas have dropped off markedly - particularly domestic flights. A reservations computer raises a warning re flight profitability. QF have a team that look at the info, they make the final decision.

Maybe our actions aren't having such a dramatic effect, Qantas is just using the situation to blame us! Pax anger redirected away from Qantas. Be aware of the old saying - never fight a "street brawler" in FOG.

[blubak]

Good post sunfish,
We all need to keep our wits about us,even though we may think something about our former friends/workmates,it is not going to benefit us in any way lowering ourselves to their level.let our professionalism stand out.they have lost theirs a long time ago.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Maybe the reason for the shoddy work is because all the engineers that are normally in Malaysia are currently in Australia on contract.:rolleyes:

Or is it because all the guys who normally go there on long service leave have had there leave cancelled?

The workmanship probably looked good up there when DC visited.

If only he knew at the time that 1/2 the engineers on the B737 line in Malaysia are Qantas blokes.Qantas might not have cancelled our leave then or entered into the contract.

Suckers!!!

[Gen Y]

Qantas dispute - Radio National Breakfast - 25 June 2008 (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/breakfast/stories/2008/2285015.htm)

[shagonarock]

I see that our wonderful KB has struck another blow on QF intranet.
He's done a copy and paste of an Article from yesterdays "Australian
Newspaper" Titled "Union must get real " which bags the crap out of us.

While it would be nice to have the right of reply, I'm sure the great
majority of QF workers can see the light, as they too are sick and tired
of having to bend over while qf managers shove pineapple's up our
rear ends.

If by chance you read this KB,,,, I have managed to crowbar most of those pineapples from my cakehole lately,and while they are still slightly
soiled, It would be a dream come true if I could return the favour to you,
GD and DC,,,,, So please be my guest and take a bow:eek:

If only you Morons realised that your Gross disloyalty to your workforce
will cost you far more than a mere $360 mil.

[Level13]

How can we intimidate the 'cross-dresser's' when they have already evacuated by the time we have turned up for shift!
The only person remaining is a recently promoted ops manager,who has the sympathy of the boys on the floor(clever ploy)
And finally,there is so much security on tarmac whilst these 'people' are covering us ,you couldn't get close enough to spit at them!!!

P.S: Can't wait for the roadshow's though ,looking forward to seeing DC and M;)

[MR WOBBLES]

new notice out, meeting monday between alaea actu & qf

[Level13]

How can we intimidate the 'cross-dresser's' when they have already evacuated by the time we have turned up for shift!
The only person remaining is a recently promoted ops manager,who has the sympathy of the boys on the floor(clever ploy)
And finally,there is so much security on tarmac whilst these 'people' are covering us ,you couldn't get close enough to spit at them!!!

P.S: Can't wait for the roadshow's though ,looking forward to seeing DC and M;)

[up2us]

Hi all,
Thanks for your tireless work recently. It is really appreciated by the boys/girls I have been talking to.
I have a suggestion, which if you take up, will save me so much frustration. I'm sure my tv will also like the reprieve, as every time Geoff, Kevin etc open their traps my tv is bombarded with whatever is in my hands! I nearly choked when Dixon on the 7.30 Report talked about the 3% wage increase plus the 3-4 % bonus we all received which took our rise to approx 7%. Now 7 % on supposedly 130k I would take but as you well know we haven't had an increase since Jan 06. In fact, I have a 26 month old daughter who hasn't seen her Dad receive a pay rise from Qantas.

My suggestion is... give Qantas warning that every time they deliberately mislead the public we will put the next stoppage on for THAT REASON. We will explain to the public the reason we are off with facts via print/media avenues. Therefore we can put the blame solely on Qantas for these stoppages for misleading the public. This should take some bravado out of them if they know they will be responsible for the stoppage. If they deal with the truth, then there is nothing to worry about, is there?

[Anulus Filler]

you couldn't get close enough to spit at them!!!

You wouldn't want to contaminate your spit!!!

Good to see no meetings have been cancelled because we're having a meeting on Monday. The usual stance is that the company wont talk unless we cancel the PIA then the meetings will resume. I think after 40 meetings its their turn to come to the party- no stop works cancelled until after the meetings....Stuff 'em.:ok:

[chanel1234]

The federal Workplace Ombudsman has initiated an immediate investigation into aspects of the Qantas engineers’ dispute.
Ombudsman Nicholas Wilson said today his inquiry had been prompted by allegations in today’s media that a blacklist of strike-breakers was being circulated within the airline industry as a means of intimidating non-union members.

The investigation will seek to determine if freedom of association provisions of the Workplace Relations Act have been breached.

“This is a serious matter, and if proven to be true, could result in prosecution of the guilty party,” Mr Wilson said.

The Workplace Ombudsman has been monitoring the Qantas industrial dispute and negotiating processes to ensure all parties comply with the Act.

source www.wo.gov.au

[HotDog]

This article appeared on Crikey three weeks ago.


Ben Sandilands' article:

This week’s stand offs between angry passengers and Qantas has seen air travel cross the same threshold of ugliness it did in America , the UK and much of Europe years ago.

It is close to war between some carriers and their customers abroad, with the loathing that exists between British Airways and the mob scenes of its top tier frequent flyer members throwing their cards in disgust on the floor of Heathrow Airport indicative of what happens when incompetence becomes entrenched in service delivery.

But now an Australian airline has started using security and police to protect itself from outraged punters who don’t get what they paid for, which is punctuality, civility and cleanliness.

The invasion of a Qantas Club lounge at Sydney’s international terminal on Monday by passengers who had been completely screwed by a cumulative 24-hour delay on a flight to London really isn’t the amusing incident it was reported as being in some quarters.

It was a rupture of trust that is very dangerous for Qantas, and a clear warning to Virgin Blue and Tiger.

That incident and others that followed this week arise from the inability of Qantas to maintain its fleet in reliable working order.

Pre the lounge invasion Qantas and Jetstar have dumped jetloads of hundreds of passengers at a time in terminals, even outside locked terminals, in Sydney, Perth, Hobart and Honolulu among others as aircraft broke down and staff dithered over the arrangements or obligations needed to accommodate them.

Passengers have been left sleeping on bus shed benches in some cases.

Qantas no longer has enough spare parts nor qualified maintenance staff on duty, to perform the necessary pre-flight or turnaround checks, or carry out what in a full service carrier would be otherwise routine running repairs or rectifications.

It goes beyond the current overtime bans by maintenance workers too. Most of the screw ups in Qantas and Jetstar flights this year have happened before the bans were applied.

The forced withdrawal from service of four aged 747s and several seriously unreliable senior 767s just announced by Qantas will make things much worse. These jets aren’t worth the heavy maintenance they need to remain safe and legal, but the replacements Qantas thought it was getting through a large order of Boeing 'Dreamliners' isn’t going to happen this year, as planned, or even next year, as more recently promised by the maker, and possibly not until 2011. The Dudliner hasn’t even flown yet. It is still in pieces in Seattle, being wired together.

Yet the maintenance union claims Qantas gutted its engineering resources in Australia in anticipation of outsourcing even more of the work overseas as it introduces new wide bodied jets including the giant Airbus A380s and the Dreamliners and now seems unable to cope with their late deliveries.

Whatever management and the unions say about their respective positions is lost on alienated customers.

The brand is trashing itself as management finds itself trapped by aircraft makers that can’t deliver, and maintenance arrangements that can’t cope.

[lamem]

Watch for Gov intervention next week. They will not be on our side. The tourism industry is in their ear with tails of woe. Refer to Anna Blighs comments this week. Kevin 07 will back QF at our expense.

[Sunfish]

Lamem has it right, I think. The correct response is the old Sir Humphrey's " Minister we fail to see why........."

But anyone trained should know that.

[Bolty McBolt]

Watch for Gov intervention next week. They will not be on our side. The tourism industry is in their ear with tails of woe. Refer to Anna Blighs comments this week. Kevin 07 will back QF at our expense.

More veiled threats
If QF goes down or if there is major distruptions due to goverment meddling the tourism industry will be worse off.
Its QLD tourism complaining albeit a second choice premier but lets face it, OZ tourism is getting hit because of the same reason myself and many other Australians are planning a trip to USA after many years. The OZ dollar is up and the US down.
Smashing the LAMEs up will not solve the issue.

Lamem ..Dangle another hook because I am not taking the bait

[600ft-lb]

1.Watch for Gov intervention next week. 2.They will not be on our side. 3.The tourism industry is in their ear with tails of woe.
1.
Striking Qantas aircraft engineers should end their industrial bans and get back to the negotiating table, the federal opposition says.
'First of all, this industrial action occurs under the existing industrial relations laws of the previous government,' Mr Rudd told parliament.
'Secondly, those (wage) negotiations are underway. It is regrettable that industrial action occurs. It disrupts the economy.'
Coudn't of said it better myself

2. Refer to 1.

3. Will the government direct Qantas to increase flights to Japan after they just cut more then half of the services there and back ?

HA!

[wantsta]

Friday the 4th of July is the earliest possible day for further action IF REQUIRED. What was I saying about the 4th of July some time ago ???
You watch fellas, Dicko will get his fire works like never before I feel.

I bet share price by then will be at an "all time low" as far as the last few years go. Should be a cracker of a day imo.

Now remember Geoffrey, try and act PROFESSIONAL in this upcoming meeting, after all, this is what is expected of you by your shareholders.

Try not to take things personal. At the end of the day,just remember,even when we get our 5 % or 3 % with level sweeeteners, we still think your a :mad: er, and it won't be forgotten how hard an ordeal you have made this situation. No grudges held here, lol, yeah right.

[Datum]

Arguably, there are many many more Australians concerned with the 'corporate greed' characteristic of Qantas management and other large corporations such as Telstra and Macquarie Bank etc... The same type of corporate greed that ultimately resulted in the the sub prime crisis in the USA.. Just have a listen to the radio, read the editorial/letters sections of newspapers and/or magazines.. get a feel for what people really think!..

Ultimately, the Qantas brand and the company's success is based upon numerous variables.. least of which is the current CEOs Leadership!.. Qantas management have been financially over-rewarded for years. The time has now come to share just part of those rewards amongst the rest of the workforce! :ok:

[Big M]

Sunfish said,


Lamem has it right, I think. The correct response is the old Sir Humphrey's " Minister we fail to see why........."


Sunny, I love reading your stuff - keep it up, however I don't agree with you on this one. We've played by ALL the rules for nearly two years. We have played within all laws and negotiated in good faith. A group of employees is just working their 38 hours a week - no more, no less. I don't think a Minister is going to make a declaration (under section 498 of Workplace Relations Act) because Mr Brown and Mr Dixon throw a hissy fit and the Queensland Premieress pulls out the old - no one is visiting Queensland routine.

:=

After the last election when workchoices and employment conditions were such a large factor, Kev and Julia will be in for a very short term if they do anything other than sit on the fence or side with us. The whole idea was to remove government interference from the employee-employer relationship.(i.e the current ads on television from the ACTU).
I can just imagine all those workers(and voters) out there who maybe are not quite as well trained as us or are semi or non-skilled, they'd be thinking "if the Kev '07 interfered in stopping those high skilled aircraft workers from getting a legit payrise - what chance do I have. Sorry Kev -vote gone"

[The Black Panther]

The outcome of Mondays meeting will tell a lot about the future of the dispute.

The next big event for Qantas is World Youth Day 15th - 20th July.
I suspect 747-400 and A330 will be the main types required for that event.

National School holidays begin the end of this week in Qld.

Watch this space.

[Ngineer]

Get ready guys for a very action packed week next week. Next Monday will be another stall tactic from QF managemnet. Bring it!

PS: There will be no Gov intervention.

[lamem]

Bolty I am not dangling bait merely passing on info which has been relayed from a source in the public service in CBR. Sadly we must realise that not everything is necessarily company planted bait.

[sickofqf]

lamem,

it would be a death knell VERY early for Kevin07 if he does indeed screw us !!

The ACTU will eat him alive. I have a feeling he knows this!

[primethius]

Yesterdays news is today’s fish and chip wrapping.
Having viewed the popular media and not so popular our ABC, I have noted the Licensed Engineers dispute has fallen from editorial worth amidst tyre plant future closure, bad parenting and Mugabe’s view of democracy.
No doubt the Australian flying public and overseas visitors using the system have been inconvenienced by disruption of their agenda, but accordingly it has become hardly news worthy amid the headline grabbing fray of the contemporary world.
A woman locked up in Bali, whose headline grabbing lawyer falsely accuses baggage handlers as complicit to her plight makes news.
That headliner should apologise to that hard working group and pay compensation for sullying their integrity.
The LAMEs if not careful may become anathemas rather than people pursuing a worthy cause.
Its all in the timing and delivery of message, the public generally has a short and intemperate attention span.
Given the passage of time the viewers may choose to use the written message as a liner for the cat box.
Though the protagonists may revel now in their shouts, in the future they may have to withdraw because the timing was wrong and the opposition controls the hearts and minds of those with the short attention span.

[lamem]

SickOf It will speak volumns of this government to see their response. As the Black Panther has said it will be a very interesting week after Mondays meeting to watch the next stage unfold.

[Big M]

PS: There will be no Gov intervention.


You know, on second thoughts maybe there will be government intervention. Kevin and / or Julia might just be making a call or two to FOG and telling him to pull his head in before it gets cut-off. They might just want to tell him that he has done enough damage to a highly trained/dedicated workforce and has gone so far that his greedy actions are going close to destroying an Australian icon.

Big Kev might just come out and say "enough is enough of this corporate executive greed and mismanagement whilst keeping the worker pinned under the jackboot"
"The Australian Labor Party will table new legislation to prevent this from happening and we'll put a cap on executive snouts-in-troughs"

Whilst we're at it, The Federal Police have been despatched to arrest the CEO of Qantas for his part in the Worldwide Cargo Price Fixing Cartel.

:D :D :D :D :D

(yeah I know, tell 'im he's dreamin' )

[chemical alli]

Nothing a year in the tropics wouldnt fix

[Rak-a-san]

I just watched another exhillirating episode of "Getaway", I have'nt watched it for a couple of weeks (soon realised why) but have just noticed something, please, can someone correct me if I'm wrong. At the end of each segment they used to say that you can get to this "blah blah blah" unaffordable destination by flying QANTAS. Instead, in tonights episode it was flying domestically to the locations by Virgin Blue and Internationally by ........ wait for it......... Air New Zealand. :O:O:O:O

Bloody Hell, even the QF advertising department is on a stoppage, maybe the ALAEA will get the blame for this as well? :zzz:

Or maybe, just maybe, the QANTAS product has deteriorated to such a level that even Virgin can hold their head high. :D:D:D

FOG :D:D

[Jets on]

Isn't true, that even if the Government steps in we can still continue our own voluntary O/T ban and they can't dish out any reprisals. With a united membership we can carry the battle till GD falls on his sword.

[ejectx3]

Just read on our pilot forum that the company has issued a directive to flight crew to make PA's during any delays directly blaming the Engineers OT bans ...which directly contradicts the company policy of avoiding apportioning blame for delays to other sections of the company during PA's to the cabin.

Hypocricy reigns supreme....:=

[Ngineer]

Qantas now directing flight crew to blame engineers in PA's


Its pretty obvious to everyone that Qantas is desperately trying to get us to cave by trying to wear us out mentally or emotionally. They will try this on until our PIA becomes too expensive and they will have to negotiate a fair EBA in good faith. Get used to it, if you havent already.:zzz:

[Rak-a-san]

Something I remembered as a kid ---- now applicable

WE THE WILLING, (Lame's)

LED BY THE UNKNOWING, (:mad:)

ARE DOING THE IMPOSSIBLE, ( A-Checks + stuff)

FOR THE UNGRATEFUL, (G D ) FOG

WE HAVE DONE SO MUCH, FOR SO LONG, (pull Qf outa sh*t)

WITH SO LITTLE, (No Spares)

WE ARE NOW QUALIFIED TO DO ANYTHING WITH NOTHING.


In response to the 7.30 report the other night, the reporter to contact is Greg Hoy (ABC). He is very keen (with proof) to hear from us Lame's about the facts. I chatted with him at length yesterday, he ran with the story he did, as he didnt have any other information to the contrary. I will be speaking with him again next week. It blew him out of the water when I told him that the engineers in ADL took a 6% wage reduction due to forced rerostering from the company. ( Love you Perth guys) He is eager to learn more about our wages and the disparity that exists between QF and other organisations. He is also eager to speak with Lame's that have left the big RAT and moved on. Give it some thought if you can help out might be useful :ok:

nite all :cool:

Hopefully on Monday everything will be more positive, this avenue wont need to taken any further

[Big M]

Just read on our pilot forum that the company has issued a directive to flight crew to make PA's during any delays directly blaming the Engineers OT bans


You can just SMELL the desperation can't you !!

Don't you just love the buck passing! Of course everything is someone else's fault, never, ever is it managements.

If true, I hope that this has been put out as an official Company notice or FSO with someones name appended at the bottom! If so, I'd love to see it. Of course those troublesome engineers have access to all the cockpit and cabin flight publications and we will be looking for it.


To ALL Captains, First Officers, Flight Engineers, Second Officers, CSM's, Flight Attendants, baggage handlers, check-in staff, ground handlers, we are only too happy to keep chipping away at Dixon and Browns wall. We definitely can't wait to help you all out when it comes your turn to attempt to forge an agreement with these clowns. We will not forget and will be right behind you as from your actions over the last several months we know that you are behind us. Your support and understanding is not forgotten. We can rebuild when these clowns are gone!

:ok:

[Keg]

Strewth ejectx3, you were quick off the mark! Four minutes! :}

We can only hope Direct Anywhere!

[brownsmell]

yes my friends it is all coming to reallity

I would like to thank the six sigma for the leak
As the LAMES stick together it is great to know we have freinds on the other side.
Your efforts will be rewarded when all this is over and we can return the favour back to those who deserve it
Oh and dont worry we wont forget about the rest of the yes men
sleep well!!:zzz:

[Keg]

I wonder if Ben Sandilands has a copy yet? :ok:

Crikey will LOVE QF spin like this! :}

[ejectx3]

re 4 ,minutes...what can I say? Im a troll :hmm:

[capt.cynical]

To any C/C following this thread if you hear anyone making such a PA as "OPS II INTAM" as above,please let ALAEA know.
Said person might find themselves on another LIST.:oh:

Keg. I hope you have already sent him B.S. one :ok::O

[justforme]

Captains PA to pax on SYD-CNS lunch flight a couple of days ago
"HERE AT QANTAS, WE BELIEVE IN SAFETY BEFORE SCHEDULE"
some time later the aircraft pushed back with late but happy pax

[Keg]

Haven't read the INTAM myself so can't speculate.

Currently I'm hoping that it's an error in reading and the purpose of the INTAM isn't actually to blame every 'engineering' delay on the industrial action. If it's just a matter of fact statement then I've got no problems laying out the facts- I made this comment on another unrelated thread and I'd hope that you guys would see this as us just being honest- but if it's asking me to blame things on industrial action that patently aren't the case or to be disparaging towards our engineers then it'll get treated with the contempt it deserves. :=

Of course, I'm not out of the sim for another few weeks yet so I won't have to worry about it unless you guys are still going hard in late July! For your sakes (and the sake of the airline) I hope it doesn't come to that! :eek:

[wantsta]

Good stuff all, we appreciate your integrity.

[Keg]

Deja, you've obviously seen the INTAM. Does it actually want us to blame all engineering delays on the ALAEA action? :eek:

[capt.cynical]

Capt C
From flight deck discussions to date, I can almost guarantee you 100% crew disobedience of that INTAM. What an insult to think we would do their dirty work! :=

Desperate decisions from desperate people.

Thank you & your colleages sir. C.C.:D:)

I hope no such list will be needed.:ok:

[indamiddle]

does anyone know, or even speculate, why QF5 is running 16 hours late 2 days in a row?
the LHR and LAX flights don't seem to be getting the same disruption. i will start off. 1/ we haven't forgiven the krauts over WW1 and WW2. LHR and LAX have more engineers than FRA. look fwd to any ideas. p.s. the 747-300 is scheduled to cover the catholic jihad and they had all better start praying now if they want it running on time, regardless of o/t ban and other pia actions

[justforme]

RAK-A-SAN

Would he like to talk to other people who FOG and his cronies have dismembered. Not just the LAME'S but the Pilots, Cabin Crew and the office staff from Australian Airlines. The Mildura maintenance base workers etc you get my drift.... this is a culture this a:mad:e has created. Spirit of Australia my foot

I hope the lame's get 10% they bloody deserve it. fight hard brothers:ok:

[northsteyne]

With all this PIA going on It looks like 2 of the golden children recently picked by the 2 legends in FNQ,have forgotten all the gems from there A330 course.
When I was there if a A330 had a low oil idg msg,It kind of gave you an idea of where to go and get rid of the msg.(stick good on you)
Maybe they where so worried about how to spend the allowances when they go and pick up he new one,they forgot the real job at hand.
I hope the internet man has time while he is away to learn new easy fix's for the bus,so untrained AME's like crabbie don't have to pull him out of the sh:mad: ,get out of the office more RAY,you may learn something

[QF94]

The article below is out of today's Australian. QANTAS are obviously looking for ways to shaft the Association and all the engineers in it. If there are alternative workers in our midst, play nice with the other children in the sandpit. Sand in one's eyes is not a nice feeling. And while you're rubbing the sand out of your eye's, expect a kick in the guts from management.

This management has a lot of resources and won't blink an eyelid in using them against us, even if it costs them more than paying us our 5% entitlement.

As has been stated in earlier posts, next week will more than likely be the deciding week in which way this stand-off goes.

INDUSTRIAL action will continue today over the ongoing Qantas engineers pay dispute, with 19 flights already cancelled in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane.
But a Qantas spokeswoman says all customers have been notified of the cancellations and accommodated on alternative flights.

Unionists, meanwhile, could face heavy fines if claims of intimidation during the dispute are proven.

The Federal Workplace Ombudsman is investigating a "blacklist" of strike breakers which is circulating in the industry to allegedly intimidate non-union members who could potentially be called in to do the work of striking engineers.

The Ombudsman will examine whether freedom of association provisions of the Workplace Relations Act have been breached.

Ombudsman spokesman Nicholas Wilson said the maximum penalty for a breach of the act is $33,000, which could multiply depending on the number of breaches found.

"This is a serious matter, and if proven to be true, could result in prosecution of the guilty party," Mr Wilson said.

Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) federal president Paul Cousins said members could also face union action.

Mr Cousins said he knew of the blacklist's existence on forum websites but "hadn't seen one that's been drawn up".

"We don't see it as being something that needs to be paraded," he said.

"I'll let individuals carrying out these nefarious actions against their brothers know of the consequences."

Qantas said it was cooperating with the ombudsman.

Mr Cousins said action would start today in Perth from 1pm (AEST) and was expected to continue until about 1am Saturday.

More strikes were planned for tomorrow but members were committed to ensuring the Australian public was "100 per cent safe," Mr Cousins said.

"The most shortage is in manpower and logistics," he said

[QF94]

This is the link to ASX that shows the substantial change in share holding of QANTAS in the U.S. Very interesting what went on in tha board meeting in New York.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20080626/pdf/319tyn9fvk0j5b.pdf

[Sunfish]

Regarding that notice of change in shareholding, you will note the shares are held by an American Nominee company, in other words, unless I am very mistaken, we don't know who the actual owner of the shares are - it's a secret.

Now what prompted an American company to buy shares in Qantas right now?

The CEO and Board is chanting Doom! Doom! Doom! Yet the Americans are buying in, Why ferchrisake???????????????????????????????

Would it be possible that the QF Board meeting that was held in New York last week triggered someone in America to buy QF shares?

The QF Board has a duty of continuous disclosure to the ASX - which are fulfilling by sending the ASX a notice, so I'm sure they are doing everything by the book.

Now why would anybody want QF shares just at this moment?

You would have to "mental" wouldn't you?

Oh wait, what happened to the APA bid?????????

ASIC, where are you?

[hadagutfull]

Asic wont do jack :mad:,
The management wont change
We are stuck with these f:mad:wit managers if we agree to any EBA regardless of the pay outcome.
Ill take the 3%... just get rid of this entire management team......
If we lock in an EBA based on pay alone we are screwed... they will destroy us and their vindictive, destructive behavior will continue.
I can not work under these animals....
We can rebuild with the right people.... Dixon gets up people for telling him how to run an airline.... well some one should get up him and his pack off pr:mad:ks for trying to tell engineers how to fix aircraft!!!!
We cant let this opportunity go to purge this lot so called managers.
SP--- please!!!!

[tail wheel]

MENDAERO.

I am unable to reply to your PM as you have PMs blocked in your profile.

I am unable to email you as the email address "bounces"

Tail Wheel

[Shrug]

Qantas, engineers agree to new pay talks

There has been a breakthrough in the dispute between Qantas and its engineers, but the development will not prevent another day of disruption for passengers.


The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) has called off two stop work meetings scheduled for next week after both parties agreed to resume negotiations on a stalled pay offer.


But planned industrial action in Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney today will go ahead today, forcing the cancellation of at least 19 domestic flights and another three flights tomorrow.

Qantas, engineers agree to new pay talks - Yahoo!7 News (http://au.news.yahoo.com/080626/21/17gj7.html)

[Sunfish]

From the ABC 43 minutes ago:

Qantas, engineers agree to new pay talks - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/27/2287326.htm?section=justin)



Qantas, engineers agree to new pay talks


There has been a breakthrough in the dispute between Qantas and its engineers, but the development will not prevent another day of disruption for passengers.

The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) has called off two stop work meetings scheduled for next week after both parties agreed to resume negotiations on a stalled pay offer.

But planned industrial action in Brisbane, Melbourne and Sydney today will go ahead today, forcing the cancellation of at least 19 domestic flights and another three flights tomorrow.

ALAEA spokesman Steve Purvinas says he is hopeful an agreement will be reached soon.................
..................
......................

"We've attended 40 meetings at this point of time with Qantas management and at each and every one of those they've said 'it's 3 per cent guys, take it or leave it'," he said.

"We are hoping that possibly next week they might be able to change tactics."

Do exactly what your Fed. Sec. says.

[MR WOBBLES]

June 27, 2008
Page 1 of 2

The buzz around aviation circles is that the departure of the Qantas chief executive, Geoff Dixon, could be announced as early as August and he will depart in September. But an internal source the Herald spoke to yesterday was adamant that the handover of the top job won't take place until after the first-half result in February.
Sooner or later for Dixon? | smh.com.au (http://business.smh.com.au/sooner-or-later-for-dixon-20080626-2xj5.html)

[bulolobob]

Last night on the Q&A program Bill Shorten was asked a question about the Engineers action and pay claim. His response should be heartening for all those involved.

ABC Television - Downloads (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/video/downloads.htm#?vid=qanda)

Cheers
BB

[UPPERLOBE]

What an age we live in.

Doug Mulray was right "Modern people are just no damn good" and I classify modern people as those people who have to spin ie, lie to win the argument and actually employ "spin doctors" to get the lie, er message out. They treat the public as mushrooms, a tissue of lies is just that " a tissue" having no substance.

Life has come down to the 5 second sound bite.

If the workers end up with 3% it will surely go down as one of the most pyrrhic victories for Australian management, they have disenfranchised one of the most critical groups in their organisation.

Like someone said in an earlier post pilots and engineers are in it for the long haul, they don't flit from job to job, career to career.

[triple bogie]

"pilots and engineers are in it for the long haul, they don't flit from job to job, career to career"


ain't that the truth!!!!


united we stand!!!!!!

[blackd]

Quote:

June 26, 2008
Qantas dispute - “blacklist” probe


The federal Workplace Ombudsman has initiated an immediate investigation into aspects of the Qantas engineers’ dispute.

Ombudsman Nicholas Wilson said today his inquiry had been prompted by allegations in today’s media that a blacklist of strike-breakers was being circulated within the airline industry as a means of intimidating non-union members.

The investigation will seek to determine if freedom of association provisions of the Workplace Relations Act have been breached.

“This is a serious matter, and if proven to be true, could result in prosecution of the guilty party,” Mr Wilson said.

The Workplace Ombudsman has been monitoring the Qantas industrial dispute and negotiating processes to ensure all parties comply with the Act.

Unquote.

Remember, this is a two-way street: if anybody has any proof of an 'intimidation' or 'get-even' list from management, pass it on to the WO and the Assoc. Two can play at this game!

[Long Bay Mauler]

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/img/eu_bg.jpg

"Tell the ALAEA its 3% or I'll send in the Stormtroopers"

[ejectx3]

Qan 2.950 2.960 2.950 -0.080 -2.64

[wantsta]

Lol, come to think of it, Dicko does display a remarkable likeness to the emporer, at least he thinks he is the bloody emporer.

Lets not forget something too, it was Lord Vader who turned on the emporer and threw him to his death. Come on Borgetti, there is still time to save this airline from mismanagement.

Who on the board wants to play the part of Lord Vader and throw Dicko out on his ass ???

Any takers or are we all spineless nancy boys ???

Lol, won't be his right hand man, you know the one, the same man who defended QF and their handling of the infamous "staple" splice, at the dodgy overseas mro. The bloke looks like a copy of c3p0 with glasses.

[Alien Role]

Sunfish,
Could there be a whiff of inside trading in the NY buying of QF shares, for it does not mean that the shares are being bought by offshore investors??
With a price of around $A3 now and the supposed value of QF shares beind $A5.45 (aka APA) some "in the know" might see it as the time to buy.
And what could trigger a significant jump in th QF share price?

Settlement of the Engineers dispute / EBA.
The knowledge that the present fuel prices are the result of speculative buying ( and that QF are well hedged against those high prices).
THE IMMINENT DEPARTURE OF GD AND SOME ENGINEERING "MANAGEMENT"??????? Role on.....

[F.O.G.]

In light of recent developments I'd suggest we all avail ourselves of the following;

Freedom of Association


Employees and independent contractors, as well as employers, are free to join or not to join industrial organisations of their choice. The right of entry provisions of the Industrial Relations Act 1996 No 17 [NSW Legislation website] provide certain rights for union officers to enter employers' premises, in some circumstances without the consent of the employer.

What is freedom of association?

Employees and independent contractors, as well as employers, are free to join or not to join industrial organisations of their choice. 'Industrial organisations' means trade unions (employee organisations) and employer associations.

The exception is where a person is lawfully expelled from an organisation according to its rules and the relevant laws. Both the NSW Industrial Relations Act 1996 and the federal Workplace Relations Act 1996 [Austlii website] have sections that entitle all Australians to freedom of association.

Are 'closed shops' allowed?

An arrangement to employ a member of any industrial organisation over a non-member, or a member of another industrial organisation cannot be enforced at law. Awards and agreements cannot give a right of preference in employment to union members.

top
What is freedom from victimisation?

Both state and federal laws state that an employer or industrial organisation cannot discriminate against or victimise someone because they are, or are not, a member of a trade union or employer association. Victimisation on the basis of the following is prohibited:

being a union official or elected representative
engaging in or refusing to engage in industrial action
claiming a lawful benefit or entitlement
providing information about an employer's breach of the law
engaging in or proposing to engage in a public or political activity (unless it interferes with the person's work)
Workers currently employed, and those applying for a job, are protected




I am not aware that anyone on the alleged list has been subjected to any form or abuse or discrimination based upon the existance of the list. Being disappointed in someone or ashamed of someone is neither of these. Vocalising these feelings is borderline and should be avoided, as should total ignoring of these individuals. Sadly you must continue to interact with these people or QF will set their bloodsuckers onto you via the ombudsman.



Just watched Bill Shorten's comments and I doubt very much his views were not strictly in line with the cabinet's stance. He simply would be repeating cabinet's position. All good for us.

To quote;
"these engineers are worth EVERY penny"

[wantsta]

THE IMMINENT DEPARTURE OF GD AND SOME ENGINEERING "MANAGEMENT"???????



Gee that has such a terrific vibe to it.

Once more for posterity........


THE IMMINENT DEPARTURE OF GD AND SOME ENGINEERING "MANAGEMENT"???????


AHHHH..................... THATS BETTER. :ok:

[wantsta]

can someone put the link directly to bill shorten interview,couldnt find it on the abc page. Cheers.

[F.O.G.]

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/vodcast/qanda_2008_ep06.wmv

or

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/vodcast/qanda_2008_ep06.mp4


They applause at the end of his comment is heartening!!

[biTch]

Applied for compassionate leave recently........

An old friend that I've known for decades passed away.
We've been pretty close for 20 years now and they were involved in my life for a great proportion of that.
We didn't always see eye to eye, but close friendships are like that and you move on and learn from the mistakes made.
Over the last few years the relationship became a bit strained, and typical of those with a terminal illness they tended to blame those they depended on for all their own difficulties.
I was patient, as you are with those that you have strong feelings for and forgave a lot of the strange behaviors they demonstrated.
Where possible I did my best to help, I put in long hours, tried as best I could to accommodate their increasingly bizarre requests.
They are gone now and I miss them.

RIP Qantas Engineering

............ My leave request was rejected.

[Short_Circuit]

try this link

QandA (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/vodcast_wmv.xml)

then click on qanda_2008_ep06.wmv.

go to 21 min to view all

[astrokmr]

I hope the Federal Ombudsman is investigating the MANY instances of intimidation by Qantas managers towards the LAME's!

Why is M still employed after referring to KG as a SCAB in an email when LAME's have been told if they are heard using this terminology they will face dismissal!

One rule for them and another for the workers!

To all the LAME's - you are doing a great job! Please don't give up as the many other real workers (not management!), in Qantas are definitely behind you!:)

[ejectx3]

Who would have thought that the media would read this forum? :)

Pilots tell of 'blame order' - Travel - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pilots-tell-of-blame-order/2008/06/27/1214472731193.html)

It seems that regardless of the directive, 99% (including myself) would never make that PA.

[bulolobob]

Confirms PPRuNe influence in all things aviation! :hmm:
Pilots tell of 'blame order' - Travel - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/pilots-tell-of-blame-order/2008/06/27/1214472731193.html)

Note to self - must learn to type quicker!

[ejectx3]

When this was brought to my attention via our private forum, I thought about posting the INTAM publically in this thread and decided not to ; legally not a good look; but looks like someone in depstach beat me to it. :ok:

[Ngineer]

WRT reports in "The Australian" that the Workplace Relations Ombudsman will be investigating victimisation claims. I hope that they start from the top with MH's email calling one of our own managers a "scab". Dispicable!

[Ngineer]

PS: Congrats Ejectx3, looks like your famous. Thanks to all you Brothers (and some Sisters) from the Pilots Assoc who are supporting us and revealing the truth about whats really going on around here!:D

[ejectx3]

Just call me Deep Throat, but I am waiting for a knock on the door up here in sunny Brisvegas!

[Keg]

I wonder if they quote me now that I've seen it and it DOESN'T say to blame every engineering delay on the industrial action! Still not happy about it though!

"However, the vast majority of recent delays are due to the effects of the industrial action.''

I don't think these would add up if someone did the digging.

[spreader]

I wouldn't put it past GD to use this dispute (among other tactics) to drive down the share price in order to make Qantas more attractive to prospective take over attempts.

How much money has he lost in shares since the failed APA? Best chance scenario, go for another take over!!!

We must make him accountable, as a united collective I believe we are increasing the pressure and will succeed.

[Anulus Filler]

Now that PPRUNE has made a mention in the SMH, the public can really know what's going on in the place. Once again inept management make stupid decisions of publishing another lie (in the form of a NOTAM) which was this time intercepted by the media. DESPERATE FOOLS!!!!!:}

Result....PPRUNE discovered. Thank you QF:)

Hello to all the media out there..... This 'rumor' forum will provide a lot more facts than QF would want you to know.


KEEP READING FRIENDS:ok:

[ejectx3]

Now that pprune is famous can we expect more PAF's to invade our one eyed world? :8:)

[Anulus Filler]

Now that pprune is famous can we expect more PAF's to invade our one eyed world?

Speaking of the PAF, he's gone pretty quiet after he was discovered to be KM from base. STRANGE:eek:

[K9P]

Talk about living in a Fool's Paradise................These fools are kidding themselves that it's all OK........but the damage they have done/are doing is destroying this once great ailine from core outwards.

[excellr8]

Great to see some of the Bullsh!t is finally making a U turn and hitting the idiots in upper management in the face. There is zero loyalty to the company from staff, the passengers see it the managers know it, hell even the aircraft can't seem to muster up enough motivation to keep flying! But it all starts from the top. We need leadership now not managment. The company requires vision that will get everyone on board, not division which is now manifesting itself in industrial action. The staff on the ground have done more for this company than any other senior manager has! Will planes stop flying if God doesn't sit at his desk proberly not but they sure as hell will if the Lame's don't turn up!

Well done to all those people who have stood up and been heard.:D

[wantsta]

I have in my posession, a photocopy of a "Return to service" Techlog coupon penned by an "alternative workforce manager".

In this coupon, the dill has signed his "signature" where he should have written what overnight check was carried out. Correct me if I am wrong, but on a B737 800, following an overnight service, should it not say"N37-838-check 3" I certainly don't recall a personal signature, as being the correct thing to put in the box that says "check carried out" ,what about you fellas.

Whatever should I do........???:ok:

[Keg]

One other thing just hit me about this- and forgive the slight thread drift. The article in the SMH merely repeats what some of us QF drivers have had to say. There is no extensive questioning of QF, there is no analysis of the situation. It's simply 'reporting' comments that were already in the public domain.

What I'd really like is that rather than a journo repeat my words from here that they start to ask questions about the goings on at QF that some have alluded to on this thread and others. There is a thread running that details the QF delays and yet I've not heard a journo ask why those delays are occurring. QF doesn't have it's on time departures figures on it's web site for April or May as yet but no one has asked how QF is going in that regard.

So how about it journo's? How about actually hooking in and actually asking QF some tough questions than merely parroting the words of others? Or is that too much to expect?

[Anulus Filler]

So how about it journo's? How about actually hooking in and actually asking QF some tough questions than merely parroting the words of others? Or is that too much to expect?

That depends if the advertising account has been paid.:eek:

[hewlett]

biTch.....I too have a friend with an illness I believe to be terminal.Bad advice from those meant to treat the illness appears to be the problem, however, I am still hopeful others may be found that may be able to cure the rot before its too late.Its like watching an arsenic ridden rat quietly crawling off into a corner to die.
On a brighter note I am assured by those on the way to La La Land that the punters will receive the facts only in any PA or personal contacts,no propaganda allowed.Unlike the despicable tactics anonymously employed in the terminal in canetoad county in days past.
The bro's from the Land of the Long White Cloud tell of a similiar impasse over wages recently.The CEO had the balls to come down to the hangar floor and thrash the issues out with the troops,achieving middle ground and I think a lot of respect.How about it Dicko you could even bring that weasel kb(not deserving of caps) as your second?

[Roy&HG]

We hear all the time that Qantas is spending Billions on new aircraft and that it is one of the reasons they can not give 5% , In fact they are buying these planes then flying them into international waters and selling then to the banks leasing companies via a tax loop hole . So yes they are spending Billions on new planes but collecting the money straight back within days!!!!!!!!!!!!
As for taking a pay freeze, what about the share bonus. Instead of taking a dollar value pay rise management are pocketing share options.

[opalops]

Maybe you also need to include in your eba that MH & DC be removed from their positions as all trust has gone and never to be regained, After this dispute is over how can they be effective managers OH I guess they never were effective managers in the first place good luck guys keep up the good work.:D

[stiffnut]

I personally think that it's more than mh and dc that we have to get rid off, we have to go further down the food chain to make engineering healthy again.

[speedbirdhouse]

Now that pprune is firmly in the puplic eye it might be prudent to mention some recent activity relating to the website.

It's been brought to my attention that QF "may" be trying to identify the identity of individuals who post on this site.

Specifically those who "may" post contrary to QF managements interests.

Those with interests who "may" wish to continue to bully, harass, intimidate and threaten in an effort to maintain what [at Qantas] is largely a scared and therefore compliant, workforce.

Are those receiving private messages via this site able to identify IP addresses, email accounts or the like?

A number of regulars to this site have received rather strange invitations to "private message" new joiners.............

[magoo31]

I received one of those, reply very carefully, don't give anything away.

[QF94]

Go to this link and see the guff about QF and its corporate responsibility.

Brand Details (http://www.superbrands.com.au/BrandDetails.aspx?id=34)

"Qantas is committed to the highest standards of corporate social responsibility and is a proud financial and hands-on supporter of a wide range of community, arts and sporting organisations."

Shame they don't support their own company!!

"The Product

All Qantas aircraft are maintained to the highest standards and are flown by some of the world’s most experienced pilots. Qantas also undertakes engineering, pilot and cabin crew training for customer airlines."

Customer airlines are virtually a thing of the past!!

Qantas has one of the largest aircraft engineering and maintenance operations in the Asia Pacific region and has a global reputation for operational excellence and safety.

Notice they don't include Australia!!

"Brand Values

Qantas is one of Australia’s leading brands, with the kangaroo symbol representing a proud history focused on reliability, safety, engineering excellence and customer service."

QF is now 14th, and the Kangaroo is a symbol that is to be culled by Management. Reliability is a fallacy. Safety is fast diappearing, engineering excellence has some vague meaning in Malaysia and customer service only exists for shareholders and managers alike!!!

"Things you didn't know about Qantas


Qantas was the first airline in the world to introduce Business Class.
A Qantas engineer invented the “black box”.
Hollywood superstar John Travolta became a Qantas staff member in June 2002, and earned his 747 wings.
Qantas is the oldest continuously operating airline in the world.
The design on Wunala Dreaming – the red Qantas 747-400 painted with an Aboriginal design - includes 1324 irregular dots.
A Qantas engineer invented the inflatable safety slide."
QANTAS was also the first airline in the world to destroy its reputation and put shareholders over and above the paying/flying public and staff
A QANTAS manager invented the system to trash their own staff
John Travolta should maybe replace David Cox as engineering manager. At least he knows about aeroplanes!!
QANTAS is actaully the second oldest continuosly operating airline in the world. KLM is older!!
The design of management has 1324 irregular idiots!!
A QANTAS manager invented an inflatable dildo to screw their staff. Inflation size and pressure depends on how much to screw you!!If management was so keen to protect the "brand", they would actually pull their heads out of their collective anal passages, clean the crap from their ears and eyes, and look at what's happening to the "brand" they're destroying.

That's enough of a rant from me. I Feel better now. (Medibank Private)

[tail wheel]

"Are those receiving private messages via this site able to identify IP addresses, email accounts or the like?"

No!

But observe the same standards of anonymity in your Private Messages as you would in your posts to this or any other thread.

If you receive a peculiar or suspicious PM or email, send on to me via PM or email to [email protected]

Tail Wheel

[UP D Date]

Saw EBX last night, with not one spare space in its hold item log, cabin and tech logs....... but of course it was sent out again because OGE still grounded with stut cracks, and OJE has too many fuel leaks!! We need a few pilots to start refusing to fly them..... or maybe CASA will grow some balls and finally stand up to QF:rolleyes:

[NAS1801]

Bill Shorten!!!! If I could, I'd buy you a beer! PLEASE convey your message to your boss and colleagues in parliment and make sure the plight of Qantas Engineers is not missed by our government!

[mel applied]

We need leadership now not managment.

Your ALAEA executive team is leading, QF management is an oxymoron.

Just finished my (4 days on) shift and haven't laffed so much for ages. Some very stressed/angry/unable to cope managers around at the moment. I've got my smile back, life is a giggle, big weekend on the piss planned. Close the place down. It's over. Thanks to the Rainman for the plug 20 years ago. Not even you would want to fly this airline these days. Try getting over your fear of cars - and fuel prices. Life goes on.

[stiffnut]

Brings back great memories, Rainman plugging Qantas, John Menadue, a great boss who knew how to look after his employees, until the govt. of the time thought it wasn't a good idea for employees to work for a company that liked and respected them. Wouldn't it be nice for Qantas Management to actually like us. Sorry bit of a pipe dream there.

[Suk MaDong]

Hi all. New here and just testing. Please be gentle. Is Newport Aviation a good company to work for? Do they pay good money? On time?

[crow17]

Now that we have seen the prune mentioned at the SMH it would be interesting to hear from the public who have now found this site and have read for themselves our side of the PIA. We have longed for the public to see the lies that FOG has said be brought to a more public arena.
So anyone that is new to this site and are not Engineering/Flightcrew/Cabincrew/Ground staff etc, we would like to hear your opinion on our plight and what your take on the subject is.
Cheers Crow

[stiffnut]

Thanks Colonel for your expertise, much appreciated, but i really don't care if the idiots manage to find out who i am, as what are they going to do, give me a package, i'll be the first among many who are queing up for it, also just remember when they get rid of us they won't need all those managers to manage the very few people that they have left, that includes all the f' wits in hr, to be honest i would not know what kb looks like, that's a lot to say about a person that's supposed to be in charge of looking after our welfare.

[mister hilter]

good call mate. Sick and tired of management's doom and gloom. Are we being realistic or are we just an opportunistic bunch of money grubbing union thugs. Come one, come all and tell us what you think of us and our campaign.

[mel applied]

Well Suk MaDong, Newport Aviation are employing the strikebreakers (known here as scabs). Don't think they've been deployed yet, but there is a (unofficial) list with their names on it. Apparently Qantas oxymorons aren't too happy with the list being open knowledge, but I say 'stiff farken ****' Don't try to white ant me and not expect a fight.

[NAS1801]

I think you will find Suk MaDong's post is a wind up.

[mel applied]

Caught the tail end of Menadue. Happy days indeed. Even his successor John Ward looks like a messiah these days

[Rak-a-san]

JUSTFORME

I'm sure the 7.30 report reporter would love to hear from you. His name is Greg hoy at the ABC. Give hime a ring and chat. I am trying to put something together but along with tripping over the broom that is shoved up my a e I am making slow progress.

Then again, qf has taught me the meaning of slow progress ........ holy sh$t it must be catching LOL

[Suk MaDong]

Busted me after 1 post! I'm a very much on your side unionist, and we will win this fight. Was doing a bit of fishing before so you could have let me go a little longer. Still thought it was a good user name! Say it quickly before it's banned.

[mel applied]

Thanx for coming clean SMD. You don't have to be banned. Now that we know you are on our side you can stay here for ever. Nice try at fishing. And I understand your name. You boys and your penis humor. Suck my dong - you wish. Ha Ha

[tail wheel]

The Colonel Lives.

Your post is close to the fact, but without going into details, our security is a whole lot tighter than that!

To quote our PPRuNe leader today: "Frankly, there's more chance the Pope would convert to Islam than anyone could gain access to our user details."

Suk MaDong.

No, we won't say it quickly. If you behave you can keep it, misbehave and it's gone, quicker than the chance of a pay rise at Qantas!

Tail Wheel

[vortsa]

Lowest paid workers in Aus get a 4% pay rise and Qantas is still offering 3%, BIG joke.

Minimum wage workers will get a 4% increase of pay. Unions NSW says the NSW Industrial Relations Commission decided on Friday on an increase of $21.25 per week in the minimum wage, to $552.65.

The increase will take effect from next Tuesday, July 1.

[Suk MaDong]

vorsta, not big joke, but big ego. One that's about to be deflated. Shares in downward spiral, employees (company term) disengaged, (read: extremely pissed off) Public not flying on time (this is despite QF sayiing they will accomodate all pax within 1 hr/30 mins and yet some are not leaving on the same day)
Employee morale, however is on the way up, (do we ever read about the morale of a honeymooning couple, or a pprune moderator?) and we are so happy to come to work. Just to watch the balls ups from the prvious shift.
I'm starting a book on who will be the lucky last employee who gets to turn the lights out on QF engineering. If you want to get a wager on, just pm me

[wantsta]

Hi all. New here and just testing. Please be gentle. Is Newport Aviation a good company to work for? Do they pay good money? On time?


Heard the balaclavas they hand out are tad itchy. :ok:

[SLFAussie]

I've been watching events unfold by following this PPRuNe thread since before overtime bans started and it's been eye-opening. I've learned that what goes on in the background is very different to what CEO's present in the media.

GD looks good on TV and the general public trust that look. But he’s abstract rather than concrete when giving information, he quotes information selectively to benefit his claims and he relies on the general public only getting information about the dispute through print, television and radio media.

The union has organised the campaign really skilfully by the union and I’ve been impressed with the tactics used, but I'm worried that the ALAEA reps aren’t as slick as GD in the media. Being in front of a camera and an interviewer is hard work, and it takes training, and getting exactly what you want said into print requires major skill. But someone like Bill Shorten proves that you can look good and still be on the side of the little guy.

What I learned through PPRuNe is that:

The 5% is both reasonable and necessary to maintain living standards
The 3% was never agreed to by members
That GD and other senior managers have had outrageous pay increases on top of already huge salaries
That you've been negotiating in good faith for over 18 months, but management wont budge
That you're still turning up for work, you’re not on strike, it’s only stop work meetings
That when members stop work for only two hours the whole system falls apart. Things can't be that good at Qantas if that's all it takes.
That leave is being cancelled because of understaffing
That you’re not on a go-slow, you’re actually working like crazy, but you’re refusing overtime and taking your allowed breaks instead of working through them
As a result of refusing overtime you're now able to spend time with your family.
That ALAEA members are being docked their normal pay because they don't want to work overtime
That your apologies to the public are actually sincere and you never wanted it to get that way.
GD cares more about the shareholder than the staff or customersI haven’t seen most of that in the media, and I’ve been looking closely.

But guys, stop using the word ‘scab’. You want to make management look threatening and unreasonable and not be accused of it yourself. Be polite but firm with your uncooperative colleagues. They might even be persuaded to your side of the argument when they see your success. But don’t forget the ones who impede your progress.

Reading PPRuNe means that I’m on your side. You do a vital job. I don't work in the airline industry, I'm just a paying customer. I want to know that any plane that I board is worked on by someone who’s worried about the plane’s condition, not whether they can afford their mortgage and petrol for the car.:ok:

[Hugh Jarse]

Mrs. Jarse manages between 3 and 7% every year WITHOUT offsets in a relatively unskilled vocation compared to you blokes (and me). I hope you guys get what you're aiming for. You deserve it.

but i really don't care if the idiots manage to find out who i am, as what are they going to do, give me a package, i'll be the first among many who are queing up for it, The problem is, stiffnut, if they CAN identify you, you won't get the package you're hoping for. If you read your company policy manual, you'll find that any public comment by employees, particularly in a bad light is a sackable offence which would negate your redundancy. And they'll figh it to the death...

Be careful out there....

[QF94]

Could this be QANTAS in the near future?? Is the management in training for QANTAS??

:bored: :bored: :bored:

Airline grounded on safety concerns | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23934312-12377,00.html)

"We've issued a number of notices to the airline... to make improvements and put them on notice that we were dissatisfied with their performance.

"In effect they have not improved anything and in recent days we've done more investigations and in fact found that safety standards have got worse."

He said CASA had uncovered a pattern of failures to meet the aviation safety standards within the airline.

"We've tried to work with the airline to get them to improve the standards, they've failed to do that," he said.

"That also leads us to have a lack of confidence in the management of the airline to actually treat their commitment to safety as seriously as they should."

He said the decision was not made due to any incidents with the fleet of 15 seven to 11-seater aircraft or the pilots operating them."

[Toolpants]

Has anyone heard from our engineering executive? Have they got rid of DC already?

[wantsta]

One lives in hope.

[Long Bay Mauler]

http://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/image.php?u=13&dateline=1207499140 (http://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/member.php?u=13)

"I don't want 3%,I want 5"

[mister hilter]

What's happened? Was perusing this thread early last night and was up to page 158. Now, 6 hours later, it's back to page 152. Any reason for the loss of these pages?

[division1]

Looks like some contributors have been busy on the delete key.
Definately something screwy going on with the time and date
sequence of posts yesterday. Either the pprune clock is broken
or someones buggering around in the pprune system.
Maybe QF have re-hired the fake lame dude to ferret some info.

[BIG TITS]

So many of you said you liked me - so had to sign up. Got the feeling though that this thread is becoming like a Peter Cook (RIP) sketch. Only missing a couple of runners!
Seriously, good luck to you engineers in your dispute. Make sure the loo is safe so Lisa and I can look after Raif (Ralph to you plebs) and his friends.
Best wishes
BT

[tail wheel]

"Definately something screwy going on with the time and date sequence of posts yesterday. Either the pprune clock is broken...."

There is a known database fault in the post date/time stamp.

Currently being investigated and - hopefully - rectified by our IT specialists.

"What's happened? Was perusing this thread early last night and was up to page 158. Now, 6 hours later, it's back to page 152. Any reason for the loss of these pages?"

Because some posts were deleted by the registered user, not PPRuNe. That is the user's prerogative.

Tail Wheel

[chanel1234]

Mendaero, has been busy deleting his posts.

He will no doubt be spending less time posting wrong names on the web and and more time indulging in his passion for films.

I think he might also be deleting other posts he has made on other aviation sites, as they give his identity away, silly bugger

[Wobulator]

Well done SLFAussie.

You have correctly picked up all the grievances of the LAME and put it in a clear & concise manner.

Being an ex QF LAME I have been watching pprune for some time and get terribly frustrated that what you intoned indeed does not get seen by the general public nor the media (until a little bit recently).

The Engineers do need backing like yours and I am sure they are thankful.

:D

[The Black Panther]

Patience and timing is a common trait of successful businesses. While Qantas continues to kick heads of union members no doubt the other airline operators are trying to gain ex-Qantas customers. One quiet achiever is Tiger Airways who is promoting there on-time performance.

Tiger Airways reports on-time performance - Low Cost Airline News (http://peanuts.aero/low_cost_airline_news/airline/11212/59/Tiger+Airways+reports+on-time+performance)
Tiger Airways business objective to offer the most reliable airline product in Australia has commenced with the airline reporting its on time performance statistics so consumers can make their own choice � low fares and on time with Tiger Airways or high fares and late with our competitors.It is important to stress the point that Qantas had the second highest percentage of cancellations for Apr-08 at 2.3 per cent of all flights, followed by Virgin Blue at 1.9 per cent, QantasLink and Skywest both at 1.3 per cent, Regional Express at 1.1 per cent, and Jetstar at 0.6 per cent. Tiger Airways recorded zero cancellations for the month. Wait till the June stats hit the wires....

Great work SP.
However members must keep up the PR momentum. Write to editors, call in to talk-back radio segments, post to on-line comments. Do not let Darth continue the one sided attack of our fair and reasonable wage claim. We need to get the truth to the public that these "Gordon Gecko's" have filled there own bank accounts at the expense of the workers who helped produce the company profits.