Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[Konehead]

The only time they will give in is when they become labeled as scabs.
800 hrs O/T in a month @ SIT, are you KIDDING! That's like employing another 50 LAMEs! And then there's Base! Does any overtimer NOT see what the company is trying to do? Get as much of the massive backlog cleared before PIA! They're undermining us all. Are they stupid or do they just not care about improving their base rate and the lot of their work-mates? :mad: :ugh:
Apparently some LAMEs have refused to work O/T on a particular crew @ SYD DOM. I hear that some of the crew have been rather forcefully expressing their opinions about the counter-productive behaviour of the overtimers. One of the crew has been formally counselled for "harrassment" by QE HR. Others have had unofficial warnings from DMMs to back off. Now we're all getting letters from QE HR reminding us of the company's harrassment policy. Perhaps we need to remind the overtimers (and the company) of the company's fatigue management policy! And remind them that they are supporting a company that fails to negotiate in good faith, bullies their colleagues into submission with threats of outsourcing, trains scabs to take their jobs, grants obscene bonuses to themselves while screwing the rest of us, refuses to train us and make us as productive as we could be, ties one hand behind our backs with unworkable procedures and mismanages an institution that worked just fine until they wrecked it.

[Clipped]

Does any overtimer NOT see what the company is trying to do? Get as much of the massive backlog cleared before PIA!

A relevant adage "CLEAR ONE, RAISE TWO".

I reckon do a bit of OT now. Clear some of those debts, put a bit in the savings account and come the bans, sit back and relax. It's alot easier to not be pressured if you are not financially stressed.

[Konehead]

I reckon do a bit of OT now. Clear some of those debts, put a bit in the savings account and come the bans, sit back and relax. It's alot easier to not be pressured if you are not financially stressed.
Clipped, this is the kind of attitude that just stuns me senseless with it's short-sightedness, naivete and disregard for one's colleagues! We're financially stressed (some more than others) because we haven't had a payrise in 18 months! And our last payrises were insufficient or non-existent! We wouldn't be approaching PIA if no-one was doing O/T! The company would be on it's knees long ago! We'd all be earning just that little bit more to ease the stress! Can't you see that? :ugh:
I'd like to work some O/T too, but I and many others like me choose not to in order to put the blowtorch on the company. But with people doing O/T, our actions and sacrifice and increasing financial stress are negated. When this is all over, we can all work as much O/T as we like to help put the train-wreck back on the rails, for an increased base-rate too! THINK ABOUT IT!!!

[another superlame]

Well said Konehead

The OT needs to stop now and those fools need to realise what they are causing. I hope everyone is in for a long hard fight if the PIA gets up because that is what it will take to win.
Just like the AMEs in 2001/02.
A lot of LAMEs talk tough about going out lets hope they stick to their guns and don't get a jelly back when unity and strength is needed most.

[motown man]

Fatigue management policy until theres an AOG.

The policy was "16 hours" and then M had to approve. Did M Know???

EBC fuel manifold change. Guys from Sydney engine (SEM) did 22 hours plus to get the a/c serviceable. 0700 am start Syd fly to a/c and still going the next morning @0700.

Guys flying from Cairns to help in Bne. Fly down in the arvo work in the bne hanger then fly back after a night shift. 18 hours o/t.

Guys flying to LA for an engine change. same story bust hump, work more than 16 hours and get the a/c serviceable only to have F/a's with some real backbone tell the company that they would not extend. a/c delayed anyway.

Tell me one thing if you deliberately break policy then haven't you broken a cardinal rule.

Typical QF management. "Safety until there's a schedule."

[Clipped]

Konehead

We wouldn't be approaching PIA if no-one was doing O/T!

I actually enjoy your posts. Your cause is noble but futile. Only during PROTECTED bans will we collectively have any effect.

Only then will we be able to force these twits back to the negotiating table. Never will this current mob give you a payrise simply to keep you content. Every value of the current offer had to be negotiated.

The current offer is poor. I will vote yes for PIA. I will be ready for a lengthy battle. I will wait till an adequate and fair deal is offered to ALL members and we will prevail.

[The cougar]

Is CASA aware of this. I doubt it, as QF is self regulating as far as CASA is concerned. Those poor guys who are writing them up must go home every night with their ar$e#oles twitching. There may be some CAIR reports surfacing soon, and a few please explains to QF from the regulatory authority


Who says they have to write them they can refuse.
Domo have you heard of composite crews,4 crews made up into one, one leader.

[The masked goatrider]

I hear the Asn are putting together some more media about Qantas, their recent incidents and the self regulation scam. Hope they hit them as hard as last year.

[Mr Invisible]

Spoke to a mate in Mel Heavy last night he tells me the Prez stopped by to have a Q&A with the crew. PC spoke in short terms of where we were, where we are now and where we are going then opened to the floor my mate said the unity shown by the guys wass great to see all positive and wishing to move to PIA to further the cause. Up here in the wild west we are also ready to go sick and tired of being taken for granted. What are other bases feeling ? can we get the vote even higher ?

[The Mr Fixit]

I don't like being lied to, I don't like being taken for granted, I refuse to be treated like a second class citizen and a serf

It's time Qantas management take responsibility of their actions and especially their failings (Too many to mention in one breath)

YES TO UNITY

YES TO ONE VOICE

YES TO PIA

To Goatrider I hope you're right the last program almost cost DC his job, time to put another nail in his coffin and that nail has OGQ imprinted on it's head

[Clipped]

MENDAERO

We are about to go to battle. No army will go in unprepared, that is my point of view. Be prepared and that means financially. The longer we can COLLECTIVELY hold onto OT bans the greater the effect.

As I said, your intentions are to be commended but depending on your financial position, you may be unprepared. This is where the company will be able to exploit vulnerabilities by drawing this out and testing our COLLECTIVE resolve.

Notice that COLLECTIVE is highlighted. Your actions have little effect and only under the directions of the Executive should we act without waivering.

The company will never bow to our demands without negotiating, your not doing OT has no material effect and will not cause the company to come back to the table. IR 101 - be organised, follow your Associations call.

[Ragnar Benson]

Hey Mr Fixit,

Have you heard this rumour??

Because BNE heavy have lost so many Lames (although qantas maintains that the lame attrition rate is acceptable) to maintain the queensland government tax concessions graciously granted to QF, the management of QF handle this one as you would expect.

They second contractors from amberly and fudge the books to call them permenants.

Look forward to confirmation of this one.

[Johnny V]

Well Mr Goatrider and Mr Fixit, I dare your Pi$$ant asn to release confidential info to the masses besides the fact that they will not believe a word of it you will be hung out to dry by Qantas.

We have suspended guys pending investigation for negative drug tests, placing cones in the wrong place and going off area so nailing someone to the wall for a breech of the confidentiality policy would be easy.

You did not embarrass DC at all he stood up and answered all questions with ease staples in the wiring was just another alaea stunt and OGQ is flying very nicely thank you for asking. Very soon we will be getting 30% of our maintenance carried out overseas and CASA will back this as they are onside so are the ATSB, you are nothing but little piranhas swimming in a pool of sharks get used to just getting the leftovers.

[Ragnar Benson]

Johnny V. Now I remember a time not long after the QF/TN merger that the real JV couldn't handle the heat negotiating with 2 execs members in melbourne.

You started crying:{

[Toolpants]

I went to the Doc and told him what was going on at work.
DMM and management intimidation due to the possibility of protected action.
I wanted a couple of days off.
The doc was disgusted with Qf tactics and gave me 2 weeks off for starters.
I’m on the 4 on 4 off 12 hour shift.
Every 4 day block I’m sick costs the company $1968.
If 1700 LAMEs did it, that’s $3.3 Million.

Every 4 days sick gives me a nice 12 day break and looks after my health. So when ever the intimidation from the school yard bully starts getting to you, visit the doc and look after your health.

[Mr Qantas]

That is the most disgracefull suggestion i ever herd from a Qantas employee to be sick because you cant handle going to work. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THEN LEAVE. Try getting a real job in the real world and see how you fair. Most Lames I know are more than happy with what they get and just want to get on with life.

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

Mr Qantas You have Learn't to spell,well done,next you will be able to prove how good an engineer you are when 1700 Lame's walk off the job

[Clipped]

Mr Qantas

Most Lames I know are more than happy with what they get and just want to get on with life.

You need to leave your office. The grovellers you encounter do not reflect the majority of LAMEs who are disenchanted with management.

The upcoming vote will again highlight the extent of disconnect between the likes of you and the workforce.

[Ngineer]

Clipped, very well said. Personal O/T bans outside of PIA are more often than not both futile and dangerous to our cause. Anyone who has been around long enough has probably seen what happens when employees become unavailable. After a while the company learns to make do without us. I have seen this happen many times in the past, and have been left gob-smacked by some of the "up-an-coming" execs that have been endorsing this sort of reckless un-thought of behaviour. If it was not for the regular o/t er's then the upcoming PIA would have very little effect. As for those who rarely work o/t, what will be your net contribution to this process?
It's funny to see that some people still have no concept of the word "Public forum", especially after the demise of the last thread.

[The masked goatrider]

Ngineer nicely put. I never even thought someone could put such a positive spin on greed.

I like the way you have put it back to all of us who have been holding back our extra services for many months to get you better pay rise. Just amazing that your contribution will be more than mine because you will be missing out on $1000 per week in overtime which you have most likely been pulling every week for the last 6 months.

I'm so sorry for you and your wife who will have to live on base wage plus penalties like me and my family of 6 have had to do for 6 months. So we will be earning the same but it's you who will be giving more. I can't work that one out.

It's just like a rapist that has been mauling the girls over town for many months and he gets caught and locked up for five years. He complains that his penalty is too harsh compared to some other dude because he will miss out on all that fun he had while he was raping the women.

Maybe a box of tissues, some tampons and a womans day might appease you.

[Big M]

Just Out;

Official Australian Bureau of Statistics annual inflation rate from
1-APR-2007 to 31-MAR-2008


4.2 %

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Konehead]

Be prepared and that means financially.

If you rely on O/T for financial security, you're living beyond your means. One day, it will not be there. Then what? And where will the rest of us be? Sitting on a lower rate because the selfish kept a broken system working.


Personal O/T bans outside of PIA are more often than not both futile and dangerous to our cause. Anyone who has been around long enough has probably seen what happens when employees become unavailable. After a while the company learns to make do without us.

So, what you're saying is that if we all voluntarily made ourselves unavailable, we'd still be where we are now? How so? 800 hours of O/T in a month at SIT. O/T coming out the kazoo in Base. Perth can only operate on O/T, and I suspect some other ports too. We have delays and cancellations all the time on key sectors, and that's with O/T! If no-one did O/T the company would grind to a halt. Right or wrong? The EBA would have been signed, sealed and delivered by February if no-one worked O/T over the Dec - Jan period, and they would have spent more time with the kids.

[Ragnar Benson]

Johnny V

You preach from the high moral ground.

You have suspended guys for putting cones in the wrong place or being off area.

How do guys like you look at yourself in the mirror. The same guys that have suspended members above talk the talk but dont walk the talk.

What happens to those cash payments from the local auto shop buying the old kero drains off the Dmms.

Policy prevents employees taking the drains but now were selling them!!!!:E

[Ragnar Benson]

Mr Qantas

The question is not if you want to be at qantas but whether management want you to be there.

Isolation, intimidation and even after you leave they will still hound you like a dripping tap.


On a different note

Return of the snapper. Rumour has it that snapper is returning to reopen Sydney heavy maint.

He delivered OGS (og snapper) so maybe he will take it back to the desert when the 787 arrives.

If he takes OGS back to the desert maybe he could removed his graffitti from the hori stab ciompartment.

[Konehead]

Try getting a real job in the real world and see how you fair.

Pretty well actually. Just ask the 19 apprentices and AMEs taken on by Energy Australia.
Integral Energy will pay a mature age starter $67K. In Year 3 that will be $87K, if you've been a go-getter and done all the training available. Yes, both companies actually encourage and support training! BTW that wage is a flat rate with no overtime, 9 day fortnights and a drive home car.
The refinery also pays very well, as does the railways: $80K base rate for a similar qualification to a LAME, no shift! The for all three there is overtime as well. And then there are the mines, with up to 10 coal mines opening in NSW alone in the next coiuple of years.
Why don't YOU get out there and see what is on offer and ask yourself why the Hell so many of us choose to stay. It's to see the back of clowns like you, and to rebuild what's been torn down. Many of us have pride in what WAS, and are disgusted by what IS!

[Bumpfoh]

you and the rest of QE management remind me of the old gag which goes something like,

Masturbating with a cheese grater:- slightly amusing but mostly PAINFUL!:E

[The Mr Fixit]

Johnny ! Johnny V where are you ?

What's that do I hear sobbing ?

Time to get a larger box of tissues weasel, it's only just begun

[REALITY]

The other day, I filled my 4wd with deisel. Not that exciting really! That is untill I looked at the cost...$275!

The cost of food, education, clothing, medical insurance, electricity, water and gas has all increased dramatically.

The latest quater inflation around 4.6%.

Our last many payrises at 3%

Each payrise is REALLY a pay cut in real terms.

Yes we can work o/t to increase our useable income...but this just falsely increases our wages.

My family is more important to me than anything else.

I don't want to be in a situation that I have to work o/t just to pay for the above mentioned costs of living.

As a friend once said..IT IS TIME FOR QANTAS TO PAY!

3% doesn't cut it in my world. I will never vote yes for a pay increase that is really a pay cut.

A CPI increase is not a pay increase.

3% is a pay cut.

Anything above CPI is an increase.

Vote YES for the PIA ballot so we can get back on track and we won't have to work o/t just to survive.
Fair and reasonable pay adjustments is what I support....not one's that take essentials away from my family.

[Ngineer]

Konehead, some interesting points raised. If qantas hit a brick wall on manpower there are many options they can take. Have a good look around the tarmac at the way some other operators utilise the LAME workforce. Try even looking down Avalon way and the utilization of 457 visa's.
We gave the union the thubs up for O/T bans in December.....
The debacle that is happening at the SDT is an embarrassment to our professional trade, and a prime example of how a few people's personal agenda's can ruin our image, reputation and unity, and why sticking to PIA is so important.
If the union (and it's membership) want an O/T ban, or any other industrial action for that matter, I will fully support this along with my brothers after a democratic vote and in the proper arena of PIA, but I will not bow down to the personal agenda's of a very few mugs and thugs.:cool:

[Clipped]

Oh Konehead,

If you rely on O/T for financial security, you're living beyond your means.

Dissecting every vowel.

No, I don't budget my life on 'so many' OT hours per week. I'm not going to analyse people's spending patterns but outstanding personal debt from households has recently topped $43 billion. That means many people spend beyond their means, and this is a complex debate. Yes, there is debt in society and credit cards too. So LAMEs forming part of the general middle class, would largely have some personal debt to attend to. So taking care of some of that before PIA, will certainly help our cause if this campaign can be prolonged.

Oh and won't that hurt management. Our intention is to not deliberately hurt the airline but to only talk the language that this current management will only negotiate in.

[motown man]

Guys up north have gone tropo. They dont care about the O/T.

Rumour has it O/T is only for the club pineapple members.

Put the hours back up on the board for all to see. This will show who's in the club and whos not.

Most of the guys have learnt to live without the O/T.

You might be pleasently surprised just how much you enjoy your days off.

Secondly you will also see just how lacking our management team are by running the airline with O/T on your days off.

They need you more than you need them.

No pineapple for me. (my rectums fine)

[Konehead]

So LAMEs forming part of the general middle class, would largely have some personal debt to attend to. So taking care of some of that before PIA, will certainly help our cause if this campaign can be prolonged.

Sigh... :ugh:
Would you rather work for a higher base rate, and leverage against that higher base rate year upon year (5 + 5 + 5 + 5 vs 3 + 3 + 3 + 3) or work harder/more frequently? Working harder and more frequently is unsustainable in the long term, and as I said before, the O/T may not be there in the future. But a greater than inflation pay-rise will.
Let me repeat a question: If no-one did O/T the company would grind to a halt. Right or wrong?
Most LAMEs' debts (including my own) are sustainable for a little while longer. So by a short term sacrifice we could all achieve the ability to more readily service those debts in the long term. This EBA is about the long term, isn't it?

Our intention is to not deliberately hurt the airline but to only talk the language that this current management will only negotiate in.
Speak a language they understand: grounded aircraft. Lost revenue. Delays. The Perth brothers showed us how. A friend of a friend tells me a manager informed them that the jumbo ops (and by implication the way it's been handled by the Perth brothers) has "commercially damaged" QF.
Sometimes actions speak louder than words.

[Ultralights]

Try getting a real job in the real world and see how you fair

AME,s Wanted at HMAS Albatross! $55K! base wage, working 4 days a week, mon to thurs! all trades, sheeties, spakies and blackhanders!

average pay increases of 4.5% every year for the past 3 yrs, with retention bonuses of approx. $5k.

oh, not to mention plenty of overtime if thats your thing....

PM for details..

[Konehead]

A friend recently dug out his first AME's payslip from 20 years ago. He was on $38K with shift penalties, which back then came to about 30% of your base rate.
Today, an AME's base rate is $39K.
So AME's wages have grown 30% in 19 years.
Compare that to the economy as a whole. In many sectors real wages have risen 50% in the last decade.
We've come along way, baby. NOT.
No wonder AME's are walking away from the industry.

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

what do you mean AME's,i was a AME come LAME with 20yrs experience,got the arse at QF HM,and have also walked away from the game,until these d!ckheads wake up to themselves me and many others will not return.I'm making triple may LAME wage in retail:}

[section 41]

A little lesson in finance for any one who is interested. I dont have the actual figures for the average rate of inflation for the last 20 years but I would expect that it is far more than 3.5%.

Here are the present values of that salary in todays figures for the following inflation rates.

$38K 20 years ago @ 3.5% inflation = $75,610
$38K 20 years ago @ 4.0% inflation = $83,260
$38K 20 years ago @ 4.2% inflation = $86,520
$38K 20 years ago @ 4.5% inflation = $91,650
$38K 20 years ago @ 4.7% inflation = $95,220


Does anyone believe that the "Real salary" of the Aircraft maintenance engineer or for that matter the Licensed Aircraft maintenance engineer has improved in the last 20 years.

[lordofthewings]

Like many have said..Walking off the job will cause the company some considerable pain, but implementing o/t bans, no higher duties, asking to be taken off secondments, spending more time with your family or mates who are working Mon-Fri will impact the operation far greater, and will not make you look like a big bunch of c.nts.
Do it for yourself. For how much longer do you guys and girls want to take a battering from QF management. I have left QF, but my blood still boils to read about how so many good people are being treated...
Unfortunately many do rely on the O/T, like i also became use too..But they do know deep down they should not be relying on it, it can and will go overnight.
You dont need the alaea implementing these strategies, DO IT FOR YOURSELF...:ok:

[Millet Fanger]

With a B743 sitting on the deck for 2 weeks now waiting for a serviceable engine is symptomatic of M's work after he "managed" the Engine Line in SYD. The fact that 3 different a/c had been "directed" (only two eventuating so far)to share the ground time (redundant engine changes) is symptomatic of how he is destroying ACS. Along with engineers walking out the gate every week, morale at all-time low, hold items at an all-time high, CASA's hotline constantly busy.

Vote Yes to PIA. It is our best chance of focusing attention on his inept management skills. Maybe ASC can still be saved before it's a total basket case, and outsourced altogether.

[dynamitetom]

Wishing all the QF LAME's success in their action against the evil masters.

As an ex QF LAME and more, I have been through many battles with the company, some won some lost but there were always "scabs" who worked OT when all others voluntarily did not. Such is life.

Hope the PIA materialises and the company finally realises the worth of their workers. (tounge firmly in cheek there).

I at least hope you guys get what you are worth.

Who is that ****** posting as somethingA380????

As for the other scabs out there, I hope your conscience is clear and your backbone holds firm when the evil masters call on you.

Cheers,
Tom.

[check1-2]

ezekiel 25:17th of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the in of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, forJules' speech from Ezekiel 25:17:
'The path of the r
'The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.'
ighteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.'
he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. A'Th'The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.'
e path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.'
nd I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.'

[PIOT Bord]

Part of the In-Principle Agreement the company had with the ALAEA was that no A Type Licences for LAME's for the life of the EBA, only B1, B2 etc.
Word has it that QE are about to put out an Expressions of Interest notice for AME's to join the A380 team. The bait - an A Type licence, a $50 bolt on payment, flexible rosters (split shifts etc.) with the understanding that there will be no progression to a B1 or B2 rating. End of career advancement.

[rudderless1]

$2500, that'll make the ame's stay. Why didn't they think of it before! Its not the money after all its the flexibility of split shifts the ame's have been hanging out for.

I might hand back my License:ok:

[Toolpants]

Sorry to go back a page but I would like to respond to Mr Qantas as he seemed quite upset.

That is the most disgracefull suggestion i ever herd from a Qantas employee to be sick because you cant handle going to work.

The Doctor had a medical Degree on the wall so I guess he new what he was doing. Who am I to argue with his expertise?
If that is the most disgraceful suggestion you have heard, you should try attending a Qantas managers meeting.

IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THEN LEAVE.

Golly, calm down big fella. Who said I did not like it. I love every minute of it.
As for leaving. I applied for VR last time. They didn’t give it to me.
Like I’ve told them before; They have to pay me loads of money if I Stay.. or if I’m sick... or if they want me to leave. It’s their choice. I’m happy with all options.

Try getting a real job in the real world and see how you fair.
Been there, done that. What’s your point?

Most Lames I know are more than happy with what they get and just want to get on with life.
I must have been given the wrong numbers regarding the last PIA vote then.
Oh Well, there’s a new vote coming up, lets see how many LAMEs are happy.

I hope this clears up your confusion Mr Qantas.

[Ragnar Benson]

Toolpants what a great post!!! :D

As for Mr Qantas well

its not that guys cant handle the work its the narcissism of guys like Mr Qantas that forces them to take 4 .

[600ft-lb]

That is the point with Qantas at the moment. Most engineering employees who are LAME's will have quite a few years of service. Qantas have been dragging out the EBA negotiations to the extent they have, lets face it, could've been in the current situation 3 months after the initial EBA negotiations started, it was Qantas who have dragged it out.

But anyway by their dragging out of the EBA, shifting goal posts etc, they are achieving their goal, people are getting fed up and are leaving, Qantas are saving millions in redundancy payments if they were instead going to go and offer VR to get rid of the numbers.

This strategy no doubt has top level management support otherwise it wouldn't have progressed to this point. Don't quit Qantas, its financial suicide, think of how much you will lose by leaving and how much the greedy management will save.

[Konehead]

Message from Executive General Manager Qantas Engineering - ALAEA EBA

The ALAEA is conducting a ballot to seek your endorsement for industrial action consisting of bans and stoppages.

This action, if approved, is likely to impact our passengers, damage the reputation of Qantas Engineering and cost you money.

How you vote is obviously up to you. We will provide you with an update about the negotiations.

In January of this year, Qantas and the ALAEA reached an 'in principle' agreement and the ALAEA announced, 'in real dollar terms we feel we have reached our objective'. Yet you have never been given the opportunity to vote on that agreement. Why is that, DC? Because what the author(s) of the agreement wrote was not what your negotiating team agreed to!

Qantas will not allow the ALAEA to undermine the 3% wages policy. Wages at Qantas have more than kept pace with inflation...
Lies, damned lies and statistics! Yours has certainly outstripped inflation by 47%. But taking QF wages as a whole you're probably correct, because one has to include obscene management bonuses in the total. Pity about the rest of us.
...while cost control has enabled the Group to invest and to grow employment.
You mean like investing in cordless headsets, towbar-less tractors, a workable IT system, flatscreen monitors large enough to read a wiring diagram on, adequate logistics, training...?
Ummm, grow employment: "ops managers" - another layer of management. Just what we needed! And what of the rumour that SYD Base is 120 people over-staffed?

Qantas will not change tack as our offer underpins the competitiveness of our engineering business.
We'll see about that wont we? :}

No good will come of this action proposed by the ALAEA.
No good for you! :{

David Cox
Executive General Manager
Qantas Engineering


Most LAMEs were insulted by this email. Does he purposely try to provoke people before a ballot? You'd think he'd learn after his last letter went down like a lead balloon. He has about as much appeal as a whore with herpes.

[blubak]

Still no mention of why the 1% super increase doesnt apply to everyone covered by the eba.ALL of the asu members got the 1% super increase-if we are expected to all accept 3% pay rise then why arent we all entitled to 1% super increase.WE eagerly await an answer in the next e-mail.LETS SEE IF WE GET 1.

[Big Unit]

Im looking forward to my vote tomorrow. :}:}.
I hope the 2 at the top have clean swords. Wouldn't want your backs to get dirty when you will fall on them. Go and fcuk another company up & let us get ours back to the most respected in the world where it belongs.

[Syd eng]

Are we getting the voting papers tomorrow/this week?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Voting papers should arrive from Tues.

[dr skydrol]

I am the last person who could afford days off work. You think you have debt well see me I will make you feel better about yourself. however i will vote YES for PIA. If I can do it anyone can. 3% is such an insult.

Remember the pilots, they lost their dispute cause there are thousands of pilots flying around the outback for $0 just to get their hours up in the hope of landing a job with an airline. They were easy to replace. How many Lame's are there in this country doing this with our qualifications to replace us. Not many. Don't listen to there threats they have searched the land offered stupid money and found only a few low souls. The government has said they won't allow 457 visa holders if we play by the rules (ie PIA) so what you got is it QF. I can't wait to see these scabs try to do our jobs. What a laugh it will be. And that is the advantage we have. These managers who used to stick go-no guages in engine components have no idea what we really do for this ungrateful company. A lot has changed since these low life scabs worked on an aircraft. You maybe able to replace someone doing your old job M with a monkey but not ours.

LETS STAY STRONG. The greatest fear this management has is the shareholders. What do you think the shareholders will say when the planes aren't flying and the company is losing 10x a day what it would cost to give us a pay rise. It took days for the scheduals to recover when the ramp stopped work for 4 hours.

GD message to you. If I go out and lose money it will be more than 5% that I will vote yes for to get me back. The difference between 3 and 5 % is loose change anyway compared with the daily cost of living. Do you just have a general hatred for mankind or were you bashed at school and this is how you are repaying the normal people.
Listen to those who have left, they are on the same or more $$$ and most aren't working shifts that will take ten years off there lives anymore. There is life after QF. The time has come for fairness.

To those who think we have been offered a fair offer. Take 3 months long service leave and see what sort of money you are really on. Its not that good. Remember we took a pay freeze for these people. We aren't asking the world so lets not go soft now.
Send a strong message again VOTE YES for PIA :ok:

[Syd eng]

Thanks Steve.

[The Mr Fixit]

A Simple Concise message to DC and his cohorts

"LAMEs SAY YES TO P.I.A"

Time to right this vessel and put it back on course

Time for RESPECT AND RECOGNITION

Bring on the VOTE

[another superlame]

Good Luck with the vote Gents. Lets hope it comes up trumps and it allows QF to be given a dose of their own medicine. This has gone on way too long and now it is time to unite and vote with your feet.

[Big Unit]

allows QF to be given a dose of their own medicine


Mate, i dont want to hurt QF. I just want to see the 2 arseholes that have slowly eroded our conditions and destroyed engineering get shown the door. Now where is that ballot paper.:suspect::suspect:

Lets get this thing sorted before we lose more good men (and that includes our valuable ame's).

[section 41]

Unless you are happy with the current offer you must vote YES to PIA.

Any other outcome removes the power that we have previously given to the Fed Exec.

A strong yes vote does 2 things, shows a united front to the company and also provides a strong barganing position in the unlikely event the management see reason and deliver a better offer.

STAY STRONG

[Konehead]

Loved the latest ALAEA Notice comparing pay rates of the various Australian employers of LAMEs.

I've always wondered what the true market was...

Makes me question why the Hell I don't just move on...

Maybe I will, but not before I see the backs of MH and DC! :}

After reading this Notice, is anyone still planning on voting no for PIA?

BTW, I've done my own research into other industries and LAMEs pay rates in other countries. Very interesting! Do yourself a favour. Discover the true worth of your trouble-shooting methodology, responsibility, hand-eye skills, judgment and shiftwork.

[JETTRONIC]

Looks like the ship is sinking. Do your selfs a favour, if you get a better offer then take it. Even if the PIA does get up I don't see us getting any more than what's on offer with the other airline. Voteing yes:ok: and more than happy to fight for it but if some one is offering you 30 grand more.... well you work it out.....

[another superlame]

It is starting to get exciting

[The masked goatrider]

Just seeking clarification from any Malaysian friends watching on. I hear that 8 expats are returning to do a little bit of work out at Qantas while the real men fight for the a better wage agreement. These s***s it appears have taken emergency leave from Malaysia to return home and do the dirty on us. The emergency? They all desperately need to earn lots of money from a short time contract that requires them to enter the workplace in an armour plated bus. Can somebody please confirm that their Malysian employers are onto the scam and won't be holding their Malaysian contracts, in fact they will told told in no uncertain terms to get the hell out of their country?

[600ft-lb]

Who really cares about it all anyway... This is my attitude now.

If we are going to lose our jobs when a new wave of engineer scabs come in through the back door and take our jobs, then accept your redundancy, take a holiday, when you get back you can either take an AME contractor job at $35/hour accomodation and super on top of that, at any number of places (JHAS, Brisbane H/M, Avalon, Australian Aerospace, Air NZ(in NZ), RAAF Richmond/Amberley/South Australia, National Jet... just to name a few. You have Bermil, Aviation Labour Group as 2 contracting companies just to get yourself started).

Or you can get a job with jobstechnical.com.au being a scab at a rate of pay that is far, far in excess of what the highest get paid now at Qantas, which may even lead to training on the new fabled ever delayed types that Qantas. 100k for 6 months, around 1050 hours = around $100/hour... NOT BAD AT ALL.


Either way, you'll more then likely end up ahead of where you are now, you might lose your job, but as our ex Ansett brothers found out, nothing is forever, you would be hard pressed to find an ex Ansett engineer out there either not maintaining aircraft or doing something else on purpose. The jobs are out there, its not worth selling your souls over keeping one paying as poorly as it currently does with the climate of fear Qantas management love to hang over everyone heads ALL the time.

Cast your minds back to a time when there wasn't doom and gloom in the aviation industry. Can anyone remember when any of our management ever said 'Well done guys, everything is going just great!'

[Syd eng]

Got my PIA papers today, Yes vote in the mail tomorrow. Bring it on.

[Johnny V]

Go and have you vote it will mean nothing

All pumped are we ? We will soon see, your exec may have some balls (small though they are) but LAMEs as a population do not

We will soon have the snivellers and OT Kings breaking your backs

If that don't work we'll bring in the 'Alternative Workforce' from Malaysia, New Zealand and your OWN BROTHERS just recently retired and redundant.
(We don't care if you know who they are, they are mercenaries every last one of them paid to do our bidding)

You will crumble like stale biscuits

[trustee]

I've watched the tough guys at work on this forum over the past few weeks and it seems to me that you're blindly diving into PIA just for the heck of it.

If you don't believe the airline is in for a fall (which they may well deserve and which might just clean out the managers you say wrecked the place), you are fools. Fuel is killing my budget so must be destroying Qantas'.

Lots of frothing about leaving and making stacks in other airlines and industries - yeh sure. If you were any good you would have already backed yourself and left.

Don't get me wrong - I reckon that lots of LAMEs are worth every penny, and more - but let's face it - not all cut it.

Weigh it up - an offer on the table (that's what they keep saying) which IS better than 3% for most of us (for me it's 4.2ish%), a demand for 5% which we know we won't get OR maybe real soon a company wide pay freeze again! At least overpaid execs would get frozen too.

As well, you imply we can't trust management. Can we trust the current head kickers on the Fed Exec? I hear that lots of what we are being told by the company about the deal is true. Ask a couple of sensible Fed Exec members.

SP hasn't come clean on how this consultant turned up, what he's there for and who sent him in. SP and PC haven't come clean on how they came to sign an agreement that they now say is no good. At best poor judgement and at worst lies.

We don't know how the Fed Sec powers will get used on the 48 hour stoppage and I can't afford to lose 2 days pay!

At the end of the day, I like my job (unlike lots of you) and whilst I want better pay, I also want some long term ability to get on and fund my lifestyle and support my family. Killing off Heavy and no doubt bits of Line won't help that will it?

You can whack me for my view - and I might never use this forum again anyway - but if I make you think just for a second it's worth it.

By the way I'm not on the good boy lists of any of the senior managers - hardly know them in fact. Then again - don't know the Fed Exec either.

[Sogi]

The only stale biscuit around here is Johnny V. LOSER!!!!


Anyone here anything about the commission hearing today regarding the leave situation?

[JETTRONIC]

You getting a little nervous jonny boy.

Voted yes today, as did most of my section. :ok:

As for your strikebreakers, cool bring them in, I need a holiday, considering I haven't been able to get any leave.:*

and while your running to tell your boss please let him know a bucket load of resignations are coming his way soon.:eek:

It's about time we played the game:E

[Bumpfoh]

Mate, i dont want to hurt QF. I just want to see the 2 arseholes that have slowly eroded our conditions and destroyed engineering get shown the door. Now where is that ballot paper

Agree big fella but rest assured DC, MH, SB, IA & co would not be operating in the manner in which they are without blessing from above.

So as sentimental as your thoughts may be don't be constrained by false feelings of "love" towards QF as a whole. They would crap on us quicker than a low flying flock of seagulls with a case of the runs.

Maintain the rage.:cool:

[REALITY]

Do you want to play a game?

[Sunfish]

Good luck gentlemen. I think you will find that QF caves in rather quickly. There is a difference between "Hard men" like Chris Corrigan and bullies.

In the case of the waterfront dispute, there was need for massive structural change - and in the end, after a lot of biffo, change happened and everyone got back to work - except the scabs who were discarded immediately and permanently as pariahs. From what I know of the waterside unions (and I know a little) Corrigans masked men, dogs and strike-breakers were the only way to get the unions attention.

In your case, I fail to see much need for structural change at all, and much commercial risk in putting your airline in the hands of a foreign MRO that you have little oversight or control over.

It seems to me that your management actually enjoys doling out lots of pain, else why would they toy with you for so long, to the detriment of the shareholders, let alone yourselves? But narcissists are like that, they get their jollys by trashing other people and causing pain. But of course, when you start arcing up and causing them pain, they immediately stop playing.

To put it another way; Corrigan did what he did because he had to. QF management are doing what they are doing because they like doing it to you.

And once QF don't like the game any more, they will give you what you want to make it stop.

[B.Dawson]

Now is the time for all of the good guys ,fellow LAME brothers to unite.

For too long the company has been rubbing their hands together , every time our ,in the QF pocket union, signed an EBA. The reason the new executive was voted in because we are sick of being treated like second class citizens. Mr Fixit can fixit.

Qf ,MH and DCock must be aware that its ok to get scabs in , but these guys still have to fix a/c,its not about getting the guys through the gate.
They still have release A/c to the australian public. Casa ,the pilots ,Quality and risk, will be watching very closely!!!!!!!

NOT TO MENTION USE,AND THE UNION.

Not only will these scabs risk future employment, but there source of income............THEIR LICENCES.

And if they think that the pressure wont be on them to get the A/c over the fence,to prove us wrong...think again. Mh and DC dont give a sh*t about your CASA fine or loss of licence.


Who would you trust your multi BILLION dollar fleet to.


This is our lives and future ,MH and DC will move on,to do over some other
workforce,now is the time.

THE TIME FOR TALK IS OVER,EVERTHING IS IN PLACE,LINK ARMS,

STAND UNITED AS ONE.

[Short_Circuit]

I'm here for the long term. not a 5 year stint like managers.

I have voted & posted.

Mr QF will not be pleased..........................:ok:

[The_King]

Voting papers arrived today. Ticked YES and sent it back.

Let the games begin.

[Millet Fanger]

VOTE YES TO PIA

It's time to show DC, MH and all the rest of the management team, who are destroying Qantas Engineering in order to fatten up this year's bonus, that we are not going to take it any more.

[allouette 111]

:ok:got my ballot paper today a big yes on its way , we have suffered long enough at the hands of bad management

[Talkwrench]

The PIA ballot will get up. The question is by how much? If you want a better deal, vote yes. Alternatively, if you have had enough and just want it over with, vote yes. The best way to resolve this to all members satisfaction, with the least amount of pain, is to provide an overwhelming yes vote to the company. The higher the yes vote, the more averse the company will be to pursuing all out war. Vote yes to get this thing resolved. History proves it. Serious PIA has always resulted in a superior outcome.

[division1]

My YES vote in the mail.
And the scabs, bring 'em on, as George Bush would say.

[section 41]

Got my papers, cast my vote BRING IT ON!!

:ok::ok::ok:

[once a jolly swagman]

Count me in for PIA.

[Hardworker]

The Ballot states that overtime ban, secondments and higher duties will be imposed
So why doesnt the Union state no overtime at all, before/after or on days off,
All secondments including overseas ports be returned to their original home port and all higher duties cease...now that would really make GD DC MH and the gang wake up

[nut turner]

Having voted No to PIA I will not break ranks if the vote gets up. Having been through a number of disputes in earlier times I don't believe QANTAS will give in easily. My experience is that they would rather cut off their own nose despite their face.:ugh:
I dont think we will win any friends from the travelling public so without wanting to sound contradictory I believe that any stand down of members should be met by immediate stop work of all members at every station and not put to a local vote, obviously that will exclude staff members and those on permanent overseas stations who are under different conditions, eg Los Angeles.
It's no point p***ing some people off, we might as well p**s everyone off. At least we will get the company's attention and it may bring them to the barganing table with a genuine offer.
Lets hope it won't come to that, but I wont hold my breath. :(

[The Mr Fixit]

Trustee you quote "By the way I'm not on the good boy lists of any of the senior managers - hardly know them in fact. Then again - don't know the Fed Exec either."
So honestly you know sweet FA

Good to see new 'faces' you input is valued keep it up

Ballot arrived also another YES vote on its way

Time to send a LOUD and Clear message

[Mr Invisible]

I have not had much faith in executives past and they have not disappointed in their contempt of us but the new 'brooms' seem to have drawn a line in the sand and refuse to kowtow.

On that alone I will stand beside them

Put me down for a yes

[aveng]

yes
yes
yes

on its way!

[Anulus Filler]

Count me in....Another Yes vote on the way.:ok::ok::ok:

[Big Unit]

A massive YES for me. :}:}

[FMU]

David C latest email to the troops stating that "The ALAEA has conveniently excluded some very important and fundamental elements” in the comparison of LAME pay rates, is in itself very misleading.

The ALAEA was comparing a LAME with 1 A/F & ENG licence.
David C was comparing AVERAGE pay. i.e. he was comparing a Qantas LAME with perhaps 4 licences and 20 years service with a Virgin LAME with 2 licences and only 1 year of service. I find the David C comparison to be misleading, and an attempt to pull the wool over the LAMEs eyes. It’s amazing that he would seriously publish such a comparison table that clearly does not compare “apples with apples”. If I were to compile some data in such a slanted and misleading way and try and pass it off as serious research I would be laughed at. David, whoever gave you this information should be disciplined for his deceptive tactics. And David, shame on you for trying to pass off this load of crap.

That’s 1 more YES vote from me!

[PIOT Bord]

WHAT'S GOING UP?

- Inflation at 4.2% and rising.
- Food costs up $145 pm over the last 12 months.
- Average mortgage repayments up close to $300 pm.
- Management's pay increased 27 - 50% over the last 12 months.
- Qantas' record profit, this year an increase of over 40%

WHAT'S NOT GOING UP?

- LAME'S PAY - FOR THE LAST 2 1/2 YEARS, 0% INCREASE

HOW DO WE GET A REASONABLE INCREASE?

- Support our ALAEA Exec.
- Vote YES to PIA.
- Follow the company's PPM to the letter.
- Stay united for a quick resolution.

[Toolpants]

My yes vote is in the mail.

I love how QF says they have a “3% company policy.”

I reckon it should be ALAEA policy to “never accept wage rises below CPI.”

We should all start having our own policies.

[FMU]

With regard to DCs email to the troops comparing LAME wages-

Surprising for what it does say. DCs table shows that-
a Jetstar LAME with 2 mechanical licences from day 1 of employment earns $98,457.
This is $21,727 MORE than the Qantas mech Gr 3 LAME on day 1, who earns $76,730 and
$10,187 MORE than the Qantas GR 5 LAME with 10 years of service.
Thankyou DC for supplying the Jetstar wage figures. This only confirms the disparity in wages between Qantas and other Airlines.

DC has chosen to display AVERAGE Qantas LAME wages, and compare them to other airline STARTING wages. Not a fair comparison.

Surprising for what it does not say!

DCs table makes no mention of Newport Aviation. He has deliberately left this out, probably knowing that these figures would only add fuel to the fire that is coming.

DC, no good will come of this.

[YOSHI]

QF managment have done a great job over the last 10 or so years, keeping its workers wages down to a level BELOW the average wage in Aus. They are to be commended on this.

BUT!!!!

At what cost to the company's long term future!!!!!!!!!!!

If you want any real prospect of a future in QE, then you must vote YES for PIA.

It is the only way to get the public and the Government to see what is being done to QF, and our industry.

My YES Vote has gone in today.

Let's stick together and get this done...

[sky rocket]

That's a big YES from me.

[Big Unit]

DC, MH are you getting nervous yet? Thats a huge percentage of yes voters so far. But then again, maybe all of us on pprune are just a bunch of angry whingers. :E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E:E

[backyardmechanic]

A big YES from the West!!!!! Let's get back a small portion of what we've lost over the years. DC/MH time to actually reward the assets of this company instead of treating us like necessary evils that can be replaced by cheap o/s labour. Your lack of forsight and respect is degrading to all of Engineering and it is time you put a price on quality and safety and stopped hovering the axe over our heads every day. Let us do our jobs the way we have learnt over the many years of experience we have gained, financially compensate us for this expertise in a manner that reflects all skilled labour in this country and the company can continue to travel along it's highly profitable course. To our management, how about instead of boasting about investing in the business and spragging off all your feel good phrases and terminology, you actually invest in your people by training them and adequately compensating them financially for their skills and knowledge. 3% just won't cut it anymore no matter how many small sweeteners you try and install for a small minority. I only wish our exec had demanded more than 5%. We have a lot of 0 to <CPI increases to catch up on remember as we sat back and watched your wage increases and bonuses roll in. And let's not forget the cheshire cat grins of GD and the depatred MJ when the takeover was recommended to shareholders and the dollar sign bonuses were flashing in their eyes for all to see. P.S. Where is Allco now? How emberrassing!!!

[FCMC]

DC-If your gonna write propaganda at least get some of it right.We are not stupid. Your emails are so ill researched and written a man in your position should do better.Your meant to be an example to us.So many yes's from our way,ive lost count. Hey INSIDER where are you lately??????????????? We miss you.:rolleyes:

[motown man]

motown man is on board with a big "YES".

DC the alaea could not ask for a better "yes" ramper than you.!!!

Then again isn't that how you progress in QF by saying yes to everything. No wonder we are where we are with yes men like you.

The pendulum has completed its swing after 20 years and now its coming back. Watch Out :8

[Toolpants]

You almost got something right D.C. – It is NOT
“No good will come of this”

It should read;
“No goodwill will come from this.”

The goodwill of the whole Qantas workforce has gone and will remain that way for some time. Well done QF Management.

Real company CEO’s, the ones that start and build companies up (not “Hired Help” university managers QF have) all say the same thing,
“you look after your staff, and the rest takes care of it’s self”

[Big Unit]

Lets make this a little clearer for them....

“you look after your staff, and the rest takes care of it’s self”


Do You Understand yet??????????????????

[Clipped]

Oh no BU

Let's ALL reflect on this quote from our CEO, and remember it starts from the top down -

GD "I sometimes get criticised for this, but I have always seen shareholders as our most important stakeholders. I know some CEOs say look after your customers, look after your employees, and the returns for shareholders will follow. I do the exact opposite. We wouldn’t have staff or customers unless we had shareholders who were willing to invest in what is not the most attractive industry at present, and I am constantly stating that message to our staff".

Enough is enough. So, a big YES from me.

[Red Baron]

Well well well, it feels so good to watch this all unfold from 'the outside'. I gave QF the ar#e late last year as an engineer and have now become a,well,'Virgin'. :D

I still have close connections with many fellow QF engineers,both licensed and unlicensed and the smell of sweet victory is now starting to flow across the runways and taxi ways up into our Terminal.Well overdue gentlemen,well overdue. ;)

The emails/memo's that DC and now KB I believe are putting out to you all make me laugh.Oh and by the way where is that lovely chap JV now? You all know the one,the one that came up with that fantastic idea of closing down a fully functional Engine Shop down in Melbourne and setting up JTS.Good riddens to you JV you low bellied peice of pelican snot. :ouch:

Gentlemen,do not cave in,stay united, you now have after many years a fantastic and very focused Executive.Can't wait to see Today Tonight when they report whats been going on behind QF's walls...something to do with Anzac Day I believe? :E

I will be watching and reading pprune with much joy as I watch this all unfold.Keep up the good work and get this country's LAME's (and AME's please) what they finally deserve,a fair and just pay!

A final note to some of you whom think that your getting a fair deal of 3%,go and research what the likes of GD,KB and DC have been getting in their salaries and share holdings over the years.One of my fellow QF engineers reported that DC had a 47% wage increase last financial year. Do you all think that he has earn't every penny of it whilst he hands down a 3% wage offer to you all? I think not! :eek:

Best of luck gentlemen.

[The Mr Fixit]

Thanks for the support RB, we'll go as far as we can with this one and be taking no prisoners

A couple of Qs / inquiries
When is the Virgin agreement up for negotiation ?
Will the guys there get behind this new exec and re-support a collective agreement ?
And are they still pushing ahead with no LAMEs on pushbacks ? (a rumour I heard in MEL)

While I'm at it does anyone know what's happening at Jetstar with their agreement, I heard they were negotiating to but not using the ALAEA, not a good move me thinks, but I'd like to hear from those on the floor?

[REALITY]

Untill the Sydney Precinct is at full speed

[Take five]

SYDNEY PRECINCT


3 Terminals


2 Managers


1 Business


:{ 0 FUTURE :{


VOTE YES FOR PIA AND A FUTURE

[mister hilter]

for the first time I can remember Mrs Hilter said yes, and made me vote accordingly.
But what next?
The company will not stand around while we are at the Rowers, will they even let us back on base?
Fed Sec, I am with you all the way, but have you got contingency plans if we are all locked out and not being paid?
Can you guarantee QF will not bring in an alternative work force and leave all of us outside the gate.
Will QF dock me for refusing to start early or stay back after shift?
What constitutes unprotected industrial action? Perhaps wearing my ALAEA hat?
Regards, Eva

[REALITY]

from my understanding, there is only about 30 scabs ready to roll.

A long way shaort of the 1500 or so employed by QF

[Pilot Error]

30 scabs yes. But what about management license coverage and the AME's who are hungry for overtime?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Can you guarantee QF will not bring in an alternative work force and leave all of us outside the gate.
Will QF dock me for refusing to start early or stay back after shift?
What constitutes unprotected industrial action? Perhaps wearing my ALAEA hat?

a) no guarantees in life but don't think it's possible. Can you guarantee the ALAEA that before you walk off, be it for a meeting or some guard dogs that are marching you off, that you will do a complete and proper handover of all the work that you are part way through completing? You must be given that opportunity by law and I am confident that you will be smart enough to ensure that the handover is so complicated that no manager with a half axxxed licence can sign the aircraft out.

b) No if you folow our instructions.

c) Industrial action defined by WRA section 420. Anything that the union directs you to do that is not covered by the ballot but you still do because the union directed you to in the first place. (at least I understand it). We won't put you in that position so stay cool.

d) As long as you don't put a rugby hat on it's fine by me.

[another superlame]

Good luck to the O/T hungry AMEs it is about time they stuck it up the LAMEs for the lack of support a few years ago. Remember 2001/02 the AMEs went out but there were plenty of LAMEs who thought is was christmas with the amount of O/T they had on offer.

[PIOT Bord]

mister hitler, the SYD boys refer to a 'rowers' in Sydney. What is the location of the 'rowers' in london?

[mister hilter]

Until your last post I credited you with a lot more intelligence.
For a start it's mr hiLTer, not the way you spell it. I guess you don't know anything about Monty Python.
Also when you sign up to this site and you are asked for a location it doesn't mean you have to tell the truth. It is after all a rumour network.

Thanks fed sec for addressing my concerns. Any insight as to how the vote is going?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

The vote?

We don't get any idea from the AEC. All I know is what I read here and feedback from our Reps. If successful it won't be as high as last time because of some rubbish being spread by some managers. Most can see through it but for some very odd reason a few sections actually have taken the garbage on board. We are just hoping for 50% plus one.

cheers

btw copied this from another thread.

I am very pleased to announce that the Emirates Group has achieved record profits for the past financial year, 2007-08.

The group profit share target was set at Dhs3.75 billion, which we have surpassed.

You are, therefore, entitled to a bonus, equivalent to 14 weeks' pay, in your May salary.

Thank you for your hard work and dedication.

Ahmed bin Saeed Al-Maktoum

[Big Unit]

I think it's time we all rolled over and took the 3% and the 14 weeks bonus-pay



Gimme, gimme, gimme

[PIOT Bord]

mr hilter, sorry if my last post was a bit too 'dry', I will remove tongue from cheek. You are right though, this is a rumour network but it is preferred that rumours have at least a skerrick of truth about them. Hence, DC is unable to post his LAME pay rate comparison table on this site. What he has omitted to include is almost as corrupt as what he has included. Emirates is one of a few airlines that thank their employees with generous bonuses. Singapore being another one that gives at least a bonus 4 weeks pay. Makes our $2000 bonus look very generous, doesn't it? Not bad seeing that Bloomburgs has benchmarked all the major airlines and found that QE is 10% more productive than SQ Engineering.

P.S. Just between you and me, my first name isn't PIOT.

ALAEA Fed Sec, you obviously have contact with a members in all ports but I think you will be surprised at the large majority that will vote Yes. There are very few that I have come across that are willing to give any support to the company line. The only ones that I have stand to get big bonuses themselves if PIA doesn't get up.

[mister hilter]

Hey there PIOT (and I know it's not your first name), I think we are on the same side.
By the way, I come neither from London or Sydney. As best I can tell, votes in my station are about 60:40, but those that say no will comply with union commands.
Looking forward to the stoush,
Hilter

[grouter]

We or I don't give a toss about Mrs HiLTer. Bring on the effing PIA. Stop farting around. We are ready

[Acute Instinct]

Dear Mr Fed Sec,

Just a quick note to suggest you may be underestimating the yes/no ratio. Sydney 'precinct' modestly would have to be rated at 75 yes/25 no. Communications I have had with a reasonable spread of individuals from most departments leaves me in no doubt.

1 no vote out of 3 = 66% in favour of PIA

1 no vote out of 4 = 75% in favour of PIA

One no in four is my bet! 75% is yet another all time record response!

We are strong, we are resolved, and many of the 75% don't see the money as the first priority! Its worth so much more! Vote YES for no confidence in managements ability to steer this ship away from the iceburg. It is plain for all but the blinded top to see. Former Prime Minister John Howard lost government and destroyed a party. He learnt it the hard way. Look after the engine room. Keep it serviced, and don't forget the good oil and respect. Will QF learn before its too late? I doubt it!

[600ft-lb]

Not bad seeing that Bloomburgs has benchmarked all the major airlines and found that QE is 10% more productive than SQ Engineering.

Where abouts can I read this ?

[desmotronic]

You boys should see what Dixon thinks of his loyal employees front page todays financial review.

The management of this company has contributed more to the well being of ths company than any bloody union has.

and

Qantas has the balance sheet to defend any strikes and any such action will put Australian jobs at risk

[REALITY]

Sounds like some stress and fear is creeping into the words of our fearless leader :D

[Talkwrench]

Well, I received my Cancellation of Annual Leave letter today, hand delivered by courier. I knew that would be coming. No worries, I’ll survive. It will take substantially more than the cancellation of my annual leave to stop carrying out my legally protected industrial action and sign up to an EBA. Hmmm...I think 5% will probably do it…maybe…

[Syd eng]

Talkwrench, you should have done what some of the guys did last time they tried this. Refused to take the letter and returned it to sender.

[PIOT Bord]

600ft-lb, the benchmarking study has not been published on the internet. If you contact Bloomberg direct you might be able to get a copy. The only reference I could find on the internet is at http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=asq5q.j9Dulg&refer=australia

Well done ALAEA, the campaign is starting to produce results. GD doesn't like to get personally involved in the 'dirty work' but the media are asking questions. Nobody accepts that 3% is a reasonable offer, it will be hard for GD to defend QE's stance.

By now my YES vote will have already been counted.

[Dockie]

I received my ballot papers in the mail and ten minutes later it was posted back with a big fat YES on board.

[Annulus Filler]

I think it's time we all rolled over and took the 3% and the 14 weeks bonus-pay

I thought we were already bent over backwards. That would then make us the right way up.:O

[section 41]

??SO HAS ANYONE VOTED NO YET????????:ok::D

[Annulus Filler]

$110000 average LAME multipled by current offer (3-5%) equals $3300-$5500 pay increase pa.

Cost to Qantas - 1700 LAME's (approx) multipled by $3300-$5500 equals $5,610,000 - $9,350,000 pa.

$110000 average LAME multipled by ALAEA claim (5-7%) equals $5500-$7700 pay increase pa.

Cost to Qantas - 1700 LAME's (approx) multipled by $5500-$7700 equals $9,350,000 - $13,090,000 pa.

Qantas Cost Difference between ALAEA claim and current offer $3,740,000.

$3,740,000 divided by profit forecast $1,400,000,000 equals 0.00267%

Qantas downgrades profit forecast to $1,396,260,000. Doh.

HAPPY WORKFORCE - PRICELESS

[Sunfish]

Mr. Dixon:


The management of this company has contributed more to the well being of this company than any bloody union has.

Bull**** - and it proves the man doesn't even understand what his role is.

The effects of the decisions Dixon and his Board have made in the last five years are only now becoming apparent, starting with this ALAEA PIA stouch.

Time horizon of Board - 5 to 10 years.

Time horizon of Senior Management 3-5 years.

Time Horizon of Middle management 1 -2 years.

Time Horizon of junior mangement/ supervisors - next three months.

Engineers, Cabin crew and Pilots - today, right now, immediate - since it is they, not the other lot, that deliver the goods to the customers NOT management.

To put it another way, the Chickens are going to come home to roost for Qantas over the next five to ten years, as the long term effects of Mr. Dixon's decisons become apparent.

Annual bonuses for such people don't make much sense do they? They focus senior managers on short term thinking when they should be focussed on long term thinking.

[Redstone]

The management of this company has contributed more to the well being of this company than any bloody union has.

Yeah like a $60 000 000 fine (so far) for illegal price fixing practices

and don't forget the failed private equity "grab for cash"........

[employes perspective]

it's a shame that THE FIN didn't bother to get some balance in it's report, some advertising dollars were about to be pulled by the looks of it

[Alien Role]

Can't see that the efforts of management are such a significant factor in "the wellbeing of Qantas"

One has only to look at the "management" of Regional Op's (Jetconnect / Qlink) to see the contribution of NK.

Perhaps the most significant factor is the destruction of Ansett
ie. Engineering - 747 / 767 / 737 and A320(Jet*) licenced and little or no training costs:
Flight crew - 747 / 767 / 737 and A320(Jet*) endorsed and little training costs:
Flight attendants - many available and willing to regain employment - little training cost.
What a bonus to have those resources available to ramp up operations , together with having 40% of the market dumped in one's lap!!!!!

Qantas management have never really been put to the test.
Perhaps the Engineers will do it?

Role on.....

[rudderless1]

Don't forget the fleets of new aircraft they were enabled to buy at half price due 911 and Ansett coincidence.

Super cheap aircraft, no waiting, a ready market and a cherry picked workforce!

What about the 90 million wasted on the A330 floor due buying the wrong aircraft. :rolleyes:

APA jes would have loved carrying that debt today! Another reason to cut workers wages I suppose.

[Anulus Filler]

it's a shame that THE FIN didn't bother to get some balance in it's report, some advertising dollars were about to be pulled by the looks of it

Good. More money to put towards that bottom line.:D

[Alien Role]

rudderless1

and not to forget that when Q was "sold to the public" the Hawke/Keating Gov't wiped Q's $700 odd million debt so it could start out debt free........
what a great gift from the Aus taxpayer.

[blackbook]

Seeing my name was left of the ballot this time (not happy) i will post my vote here


yes

Lets hope my vote wasn't the one needed to get the ballot up.

[Long Bay Mauler]

What does Dixon care anyway?He is outta here within the next 18 months.

Win,lose or draw, he will either be the hero or the fallguy,and with a good PIA from us,being the fallguy is the preferred option.

But don't forget,he still has his money and bonuses regardless of the outcome of the PIA.

[Konehead]

GD is so wealthy that the money is no longer the issue. Pride is. Playing the game is. So let's make sure he loses. Pride comes before the fall. We have so much more to lose than he does. So let's dent that pride. Let's bring them all down a notch or two.

[indamiddle]

dixon said in fin review he is leaving in the first half of 2009.
i hope he means jan 1 2009.
good luck with the pia

[Take five]

Questions for ALAEA Fed Sec.

Lets get it totally right this time please.
As you are aware, there is a lot riding on this action. Not just 5%

Voting ends Thursday 8th May, counting complete Friday 9th May.

Assuming that the YES vote gets up.

1. When does PIA start.

2. Considering that we must give QF, 3 WORKING days notice. Do we notify them on Friday 9th May and give them an extra 2 days over the weekend to sort themselves out, or do we notify them of action on Monday 12th May, meaning that action should start on Thursday 15th May.

4. With the industrial laws in force at the moment does QF need to give us any notice at all about what their action will consist of.

Thank you for your efforts up till now.:D

[trustee]

So who really knows what the Fed Sec and Fed Pres are up to with jammimg our Cert IV LAME trainers?

You know - the ones that we rely on day in day out to make our lives easier?

Is it true that Fed Pres held the gun to the head of one of them in MEL, telling him to watch his back?

Is it also true that the Fed Pres was sitting on his butt, in a Human Factors course being taught by two other Cert IV LAME trainers who he wouldn't take on coz they'd stand him up?

Is it then true that another Fed Exec member - arm's healing nicely I'm told after falling off his trike - was frothing off over the weekend coz his driver's license lapsed and he had no Cert IV to teach him.

Perhaps the Fed Pres doesn't tell his mates what he's up to.

With all of that, let's face it - banning these training guys is just dumb - the headline will look good - ALAEA bans safety trainers.

GD will no doubt use that one when the Fed Sec claims the big Q isn't as safe as it used to be.

Anyway, isn't banning Cert IVs unprotected industrial action? Thought the Fed Sec was a self - taught expert on this stuff.

PIA might well just do the big Q in - but casualties will be many - on our side. I say we should NOT put our own in the middle - it's just bad leadership - that in my worldly experience - professional union organisers would never do.

You guys shouting PIA had better hope this Exec knows what they are doing.

[Bumpfoh]

And just what is your :mad: point.

The fact is QE would/should have to pay for appropriately trained personnel for the duties that the Cert IV trainers conduct, be they internal or external.

By rightfully paying internal trainers they would still be saving a buttload of $$$ so let them play their silly little game and find out the real world cost of this sort of training and in the mean time sit back and laugh and put up with the QE imposed inconvenience.:ugh:

Remember it is QE that imposes most of this bull:mad: training.

[trustee]

Now now - take a chill pill buddy.

My points are pretty clear.

Fed Pres is a hypocrit - bans training while he is on a course.

Fed Exec doesn't know of that ban coz he's out complaining that he hasn't got anyone to train him.

I'm unsure that the Exec knows what they are doing by putting a LAME (must be a member) directly in the position where he will have action taken against him by the company.

Fed Sec claims to be a self taught expert in IR. No union organiser I've ever been represented by would do any of the above - especially sacrifice a member.

Shame I had to spell all of this out. I thought LAMEs were intelligent.

[trustee]

Thx for your views Mendaero.

Isn't true that the guys doing the training are being paid already? Sure better to have the payment in the EBA.

Has it ever dawned on you that some proportion of the LAME headcount is driven by this type of work?

Have you stopped to wonder whether they will start it up again after they find an external training company to do the work?

You and your loud mates can shut me down again, but once again you just show that your whole strategy is to be bullies - with no ability to keep the jewels safe. You just play into their hands. Less LAMEs from wrecking HM, less LAMEs from making it hard to use them on work that can be done by others, less LAMEs because of high wages (yeh - I've enjoyed them too - investments have been hammered recently though - but then again I did sell some Qantas shares at $5.10)...difference I can see what's coming. You and the wrestlers just enjoy the blue.

My view (which I think this site says should be respected) is that we are being poorly lead. I also think many of my LAME colleagues think what I am willing to say.

I'm off to bed now, so save your fury - you might pop a valve!

[Mr Invisible]

Trustee
Your name implies much but your words present little I am as I have stated before a reasonably moderate individual, so

My understanding of the Cert IV's is that if there are safety issues (real not perceived) then someone not particularly a Cert IV can do the training.

The Cert IV issue I believe is about making the payment for ALL CERT IV TRAINERS in writing which the company refuses to do.

Your vent / ramble / alcohol induced rant provides us with an insight into who you are rather than the Fed Pres or the Fed Sec especially when you insult rather than explain.

I think that you are simply as this site/forum often suggests a Troll wishing to stir **** for the companies benefit and at this point I hope you stay away

[Anulus Filler]

TRUSTEE

investments have been hammered recently though - but then again I did sell some Qantas shares at $5.10)...difference I can see what's coming.

I guess what you didn't see is your investments about to be hammered. Pretty silly thing if you can see what's comming. You seem to be a new member here (joined in Apr '08). Were you banned as a previous alias? Stop spreading your FUD.

My view (which I think this site says should be respected) is that we are being poorly lead.

My view (which this site and 98% of this thread's members respect) is that we are being led brilliantly. We are finally getting e-mails and notices sent to all the members as soon as it happens. Information, meetings and feedback has never looked so good from Bexley. They are also always contactable and willing to help ASAP. These blokes are doing a magnificant job and I certanly could not be happier. WELL DONE!:D


I also think many of my LAME colleagues think what I am willing to say.

Seriously, how many LAME collegues are under that manager's desk... What are you complaining about?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I think most are aware that TRUSTEE is winding all up with typical management rhetoric. If any non puppet readers would like any of his rubbish answered just ask and I will be more than happy to.

There was a question about timing of the action. It is in a notice from yesterday but I will repeat. Qantas will be notified this Thursday if the ballot is announced and successful. First day of action the following Wednesday.

[qantas08]

trustee..... Has to be the pom F1 car from perth..... SURELY
vroom vroom:eek:

[FCMC]

TRUSTEE-Your officially added to the ignore list!

Boys at Bexley-Brilliant job,you certainly have your act together. Very proud to be led by you guys and such a shame QF management aren't as professional to deal with. If so all this would have been over long ago.

Unfortunately our Cert IV trainers are still training and ignore the notices.Our new DMM/trainer would do anything they ask but of course that's why he got the job. Its certainly not through ability or respect. In the words of another trainer on 12 hrs O/T "Im getting $1000 today to train you blokes" :=

Thats OK we will just leave you out of any ALAEA negotiated agreements.

Right then, just got to check out the Hotels to see what scabs are waiting to swoop in!:suspect:

[vicky04]

I know a cert IV trainer in mel has been stood down for refusing to do training. Way to go QE management. PIA all the way

[Toolpants]

A rumor that may cheer people up.

I heard our illustrious leader, G.D. was on the Afternoon flight from Perth back to Sydney yesterday.

After he boarded, the Perth boys found something wrong with the aircraft. One thing led to another, and soon GD was heading to a Perth hotel for the night. They just couldn’t fix it before it missed curfew.

If he thinks that was inconvenient, just wait for the PIA.

[sickofqf]

Rumours out of asia suggest the QF/MAS venture has hired a few ex SYDHMers and they are ready to do 744's for two months of 'a' checks in addition to their contract for 744 C checks and A330 heavy
...A330 heavy did I say????

Yes BNEHM....you were NEVER going to get it......so much for THAT promise GD & DC....things like that don't happen overnight....another blatant QF LIE !!


So, 2 months of no annual leave, 2 months of MAS/QF A checks.....chances are 767 and 737 to ANZ or JHAS......do these QF twits think we'll only last for two months??????

That's two months of having no 'A' checks to interrupt our defect searching on transits...............suckers!!!!!!

Go to it boys, be dilligent, and don't forget....stick to the Policy manual like glue.........wouldn't hurt to have that AMM printout in your pocket for ANY job too.....even the tyre pressures!!

and don't forget to take 5 before you do anything..........

[sickofqf]

A rumor that may cheer people up.

I heard our illustrious leader, G.D. was on the Afternoon flight from Perth back to Sydney yesterday.

After he boarded, the Perth boys found something wrong with the aircraft. One thing led to another, and soon GD was heading to a Perth hotel for the night. They just couldn’t fix it before it missed curfew.

If he thinks that was inconvenient, just wait for the PIA.


.....and then when he did get out of there they ran out of butter and salad dressing and took his off him for the PAYING passengers that he so utterly detests......

[trustee]

Ignore eh?

More likely stewing away.

Ever put on a brave face only to lie awake at night wondering what will really happen?

I don't.

If you all do what you say, I should get one of your SLAME jobs!

As you say, BRING IT ON.

I might even run as an ALAEA Rep - yeh that would be good. Go around bullying people, working on the job occassionally, meeting the big wigs, pretend to know what I'm doing, call the ACTU up for help, perhaps hire an ex AIRC commisioner.

Might even plan my political career, follow the "greats" of the union movement into parliament.

Sleep well.

[company_spy]

Sleep well.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzzzzz Zzzzzzzzzzzz

[hannibal lector]

A certain DMM from BNE loves doing HF in MEL. A one RL ring a bell. Wow this guy went to PER to help out our bros. not long ago.. SHAME he needed the union a few years back. When he was a boy.....

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I know a cert IV trainer in mel has been stood down for refusing to do training. Way to go QE management. PIA all the way


Fed Sec....What's the deal ?

Nobody has been stood down guys. A few people called our office today asking why we hadn't done anything for the "stood down" member. I asked them, have you seen him at work and they said yes. I then asked them how could he be stood down if he is here. They realised that somebody was spreading dribble.

The member has been threatened by management that he would be docked pay for not teaching driver training to LAMEs. He has not been docked yet but that is most likely because payday is next week.

The ALAEA have written to qf and highlighted that the threat would put them in breach of his employment contract if they carried it out. Saying this highlights our intention to take them to the AIRC if they do dock his wage.

This is where it currently sits.

[Bumpfoh]

trustee = TROLL

[NAS1801]

Just when I thought all the trolls had disappeared, along comes Trustee.

Of course BHM was never meant to get the A330's..... they lie to your face over and over. Just as they covered up their intentions to shut down Sydney heavy. This company is rotting from the top down. It's very sad to see.

Dixon can offshore heavy if he wants to, engineers really dont care anymore. They have been worn down over the last 5-7 years. Mission accomplished Dixon, you decripid senile old scumbag. You will go down in history as the a$$hole that tore the heart out of Qantas.

[Anulus Filler]

Mission accomplished Dixon, you decripid senile old scumbag. You will go down in history as the a$$hole that tore the heart out of Qantas.

Why don't you tell everyone what you really think?:)

[Short_Circuit]

2 months of MAS/QF A checks

2 months of tick & flick checks :ugh:

there goes the reliability down the drain even further!

[Bumpfoh]

but he may be a fully paid up member(TROLL or not) and is entitled to his opinion. Mate their is 1700 of us you think we all feel the same,
this is the task of the union to keep us all pulling in the same direction.
we start calling others names and our unity is broken and we are done.
Think 300 spartans and just do your bit,be brave and look after the bloke next to you.


Agree totally, a fair and valid point regarding trustees entitlement to opinion, and I'll assume he/she is a paid up member.

However it is the tone and content of the posts with the "pot stirring" connotations which detract form the points he/she tries to make.:ok:

So I stand by my and others assessment until proven otherwise.

[chockchucker]

Stand-by, Geoff Dixon is being interviewed on the John Faine program (774 ABC) in the next half hour on this very topic.

[PIOT Bord]

QF LAME's STAND UNITED

Qantas Management still don't understand that we are not motivated to PIA only by their pathetic pay offer. It's about
- Destruction of Qantas Engineering
- Death of a Career Path
- Safety for QF Passengers
- Lack of Training
- Equality for all in the EBA
- Recognition of Skills and Ability
- A more Equal Share of Financial Success of Qantas
- Exposing the corrupt, inept practices of QE Management

DC, MH and KB get your head out of the trough, look around and see what the issues are. You will be known as the Mugabe Management, You have no right using Qantas' Balance sheet as your personal piggy bank.

[Big Unit]

Fed Sec. Could you fax PIOT's post directly to GD, DC, and MH. Let these pr*#ks know that indeed, it is not just about the money. At the end of the day, who gives a fcuk about a measly 1-2 grand extra per year. I want to see the backs of the people that have ruined our job/livelihood.

[FCMC]

PIOT Bord-Thats just Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!:ok:

Big unit-Dont worry about faxing.
HR & others watch this sight like a hawk-HI GUYS!:}

[blubak]

Yes-excellent stuff PIOTBORD
EQUALITY is what we want!!
1% super increse for everyone-We dont need all the jargon about accumulation funds etc etc.
If it cant go into the fund we have now(which i somewhat doubt) THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE-PUT IN INTO ANOTHER FUND FOR US.
We are all sick of the excuses=-THEY SAID 1% INCREASE FOR EVERYONE!!
TIME TO DO IT.

[Short_Circuit]

This EBA is about ALL LAMEs

not just a percentage of us!

Is that simple enough? :ugh:

[Talkwrench]

1200 votes counted so far. So that means that its a valid vote (more than 50% return). Of that 1200, 81% have said Yes.

[blubak]

Yes-thats it!!,Very simple to understand 1 would have thought.
No-one is asking for an outrageous wage rise,No-one is asking for a massive bonus and No-one (as the 81% yes vote shows)is willing to be lied to or taken no notice of any more.GIVE US SOMETHING FAIR FOR EVRYONE.
A 1% super rise for everyone is FAIR,3% wage rise is probably bordering on fair and doing something positive with the quotas/levels is probably FAIR.
We keep hearing we have such good management.Well, for me(and ultimately them) the challenge is now for them to show just how good they are and present a FAIR DEAL FOR ALL.IS IT SOOOO F...ING HARD TO DO THAT????

[Long Bay Mauler]

Official Ballot results out tommorrow,and to be announced by the AEC,according to the FedSec.


The PIA ballot has been counted and the Australian Electoral Commission advise that the results will be officially declared tomorrow. Even if I did know the result I am not permitted to make any announcements prior to the declaration by the AEC. Should a successful result be declared, I will be writing to Qantas tomorrow advising them that action will commence from 0001 hour on Thursday the 13th of May 2008. My apologies to those members who are eagerly awaiting news, particularly those who have heard one of the many rumours circulating.

Cheers
Steve Purvinas
Fed Sec



:ok:

[Acute Instinct]

In response to the last two or three posts......

Please take the opportunity to familiarise yourself with what the ALAEA are demanding. 5%. Let me repeat. 5%. Just in case you missed it. 5%. The number that comes just after 4. That's right! FIVE PERCENT! The number two less than seven. 5%. The exec have now received yet another overwhelming mandate. 5%. The vast majority are not going to tolerate anything less. No sugar coated 3++++ to save the morally bankrupt faces. No favours now! No favours ever again!

This last message is for the exec. You have been given livelihoods and some souls. Most would take no less than five, regardless of bolt ons, or take their bat and ball and go home! Disgusted with the whole affair! The members are begging for scraps and still their faces are pushed to the ground. The difference between war and a deal is less than half of GD's annual package. Less than half of one mans worth per year to send 1500 people and a great Aussie Icon to the wall. GD, hope your comfortable with that, and that its worth it. Most believe you are not.


ONE LAST TIME! 5% or BUST!

P.S. A quick note to nature's own bandaids. Oxygen is getting in. Time to congeal. Once on the surface, there is no return. Like having two shadows. Yours and your deeds!

[The_King]

Great post Acute Instinct. I couldn’t agree more.

5% or shove it up their @#$.

[NAS1801]

From news.com.au

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,23663908-5014090,00.html

Qantas engineers poised to strike

May 08, 2008 08:14am

QANTAS maintenance engineers are poised to endorse industrial action in a secret ballot closing today, clearing the way for a legally protected strike campaign from May 14.

The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) alleges Qantas has already signed up strikebreakers on six-month contracts worth $100,000.

ALAEA federal secretary Steve Purvinas said he was confident the ballot would be approved, which may lead to strikes lasting two days.

"We're not going to exercise the right of 48-hours stoppages unless Qantas escalates the dispute" Mr Purvinas told Fairfax newspapers.

"If they start locking out employees all over the country then we may consider taking this action in support."

The union has about 1600 members at Qantas and they have to authorise whether a plane is safe to fly.

The ALAEA is pushing for a new enterprise agreement that includes pay rises of five per cent a year rather than the airline's standard pay offer of three per cent plus an extra one per cent in superannuation.

Qantas general manager Kevin Brown said the aviation industry was facing challenges from rising fuel prices and greater competition.

"They (the ALAEA) are making an opportunistic grab for cash, a grab for money," Mr Brown told Fairfax.

"We are not going to accede to their demands, no matter what threats they put in place".

"We have made some alternative arrangements, the details of which are our business".

[blubak]

Maybe the individual accusing the alaea of making a grab for cash should disclose by how many percent his salary has increased by for the past 3 years.
If it is more than 3% a year for the past 3 years then he would probably be guilty of making a grab for cash as well!
While we are on the subject of disclosing information,where or to who has the interest accumulated on our money(owed to us since jan 1 2007) been paid to??

[Bolty McBolt]

They (the ALAEA) are making an opportunistic grab for cash, a grab for money," Mr Brown told Fairfax.


Hello kettle this is the pot. I very much agree with blubak's comments. The arrogance of Mr Brown whom is the head of personnel, obviously knows no bounds.

Levity removed

[Acute Instinct]

1. "They (the ALAEA) are making an opportunistic grab for cash, a grab for money," Mr Brown told Fairfax.

2. "We are not going to accede to their demands, no matter what threats they put in place".

3. "We have made some alternative arrangements, the details of which are our business".

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Mr Brown,

In response,

1. We are negotiating. This is a business transaction where leverage is applied to further your cause. Its about levering for a fair and just outcome.

2. These are not threats. They are legally sanctioned promises.

3. Alternative arrangements that reflect your business. Even the companies unfair advantage of knowing the ALAEA's options, is not a deterrant. Regardless of the imaginative approach, it will only be a matter of time. Concede or be knocked out.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

"They (the ALAEA) are making an opportunistic grab for cash, a grab for money," Mr Brown told Fairfax

I honestly think this guy believes what he is saying guys. When the reporters call you, they ask lots of questions and you have no idea what will go to print. I wonder if his next words went something like this -

How dare they abuse their position by trying to take more from this airline to feed their families when I can't even make ends meet on my multi-million dollar package?

[Torqueman]

Well said.

Get the pride back.

It's time folks.

[beachhead]

If I earn $100 and the company gives me a 5% wage rise I have $105.

Let's be realistic and see things from QE's view, ...If we get 10%, every other union will want 10%. That's the reason they've painted themselves into the 3% corner.

But if I earn $100, and I get a 3% wage rise and $2 added to my..Umm..call it a level-bonus, I now have $105 and the company gave us 3%.

And for sweeteners they can take away the caps and "training" points !

Who cares how it's sliced and diced, as long as it's 5% ?

And we're not going to be conned by fancy maths, 5% is $5 on every dollar we earn, as long as it's in the bank who cares how its labeled ?

Spanner Twister




Couldn't agree more S.T. If they are not prepared to budge on the up front 3% but your balance sheet totals correctly why be pigheaded about it.

[wanty]

When we win the vote tomorrow a decision has to be made as to where to throw the pi#$up. I suggest GD's bar in sydney,rumour has it there's a
5% discount tomorrow on presentation of QF ID. :ok:

PS Thought I'd throw this in for QF managers reading the forum.

You might need this shortly,just slot in the 5% in the right field ok.

http://mycareer.com.au/consumer/features/salary/PayriseCalculator.aspx


.

[LAMEA380]

Hello comrades, as per my last post I said I would not post to after the ballot

This is a very good outcome, you have all been painted into a corner

There is no exit, and very soon you will see your pay packets diminishing,

Geat stuff , looks like the broom will finally sweep clean and those that want to work and are happy with their wages and to be working for the best airline in the world will finally take a step up the ladder.

Those of you that are gloating will soon see that your bravado means nothing, you cannot win, repeat you cannot win this

let the fun begin

I also think the Fed Sec would be better refraining from comments such as his last one, silly comments from a leader who should be refraining from childish comments that will no doubt ensure that the position of senior QF leaders will never change, so much for tactile and strategic leadership, reminds me of a song, goes something like this......true colours shining through

[Anulus Filler]

LAMEA380 out of hibernation. TROLL alert.

*****PLEASE IGNORE*****

[employes perspective]

Kevin Brown ranted off the same rubbish in the AME's dispute in 01-02,and guess what,the company lost the dispute in the end,not only that ,the cost was estimated at the 10's on millions in aircraft down times and delayed maintenance.
That dispute took a while due to the position in the company that the AME's held(nook on effect was longer),this however is different ,the company will feel the effect straight away,and they will come begging,it will not take long,the LAME's just have to stop being tight arses for a change and hold firm>YOU WILL WIN THIS EASILY<
A380 you don't have time for sitting on the internet,your arse is about to be hanging out trying to sign off all these aircraft on you very own.Make sure you cross all your T's and dot your I's,because all this extra money you think you will be making will be needed to defend yourself in the courts.

[sickofqf]

Well boys, this is it.........and the A380's arrival which is going to stretch things harder is only 2.5 months away...........how embarrassing if the damn thing sits on the fence as soon as it gets here because the REAL engineers aren't prepared to bail out the pen-pusher,night shift avoiding,a-licks........


....and remember, they ain't going to sack you like some would have you believe...because then they'd have to take you back on more pay like the budget arm of QF............


Hmmm, 95k to 105k....yep 11% pay rise............and they won't pay 5% so why would they want to pay 11?? it's all bull-dust, bluster and hope on their behalf!!!!

Game on....lets roll.......

[LAMEA380]

hey sickof you fool, you wouldnt have a clue, you should be very carefull using names, you see... if you are wrong.... which you are.... you could get yourself into a spot of bother.

I look foward to taking your job soon

[employes perspective]

IS THAT THE BEST YOU HAVE a380

[dr skydrol]

Mr d what did you mean on the Sunday Show when you said "This management has done more for this airline than any bloody union ever has". are you talking about the hundreds of million dollar fines for price fixing, or was it about when you and Ms J tried to sell out the shareholders and employees for your own personal gain?
You are about to find out exactly what your employees used to do for you. You and mr brown have made my blood boil
Remember this brothers THEY CANNOT TERMINATE YOUR EMPLOYMENT FOR TAKING PART IN PIA, We are not answerable to Qf but to CASA. If you see the management go outside the line report it immediately

STAY CALM
DON'T DO ANYTHING STUPID
FOLLOW THE MAINT MANUALS IN EVERY WORD
FOLLOW THE PPM THATS OUR BEST WEAPON.

Look at what these fools have managed without us taking PIA. I can't wait to see them cope now. They havn't a clue.

[wanty]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23668908-23349,00.html



He said the dispute was particularly wrong, given that oil had reached a record level and the union wanted to break a wages policy that had given Qantas double-digit growth and allowed it to invest $35 billion in new planes and increase jobs by about 10,000.


Somehow I don't recall oil being at record levels back in Jan 07 when the last eba expired.
Do recall reading in the papers though that GD's salary and share bonuses were at record levels.

[The Black Panther]

As we approach the decision and I would assume the ALAEA already have plans afoot, these are my opinions.

1. Forward written apologies to all customer airlines and post a national apology in newspapers to the public for any disruptions.
2. State our situation has come about from the normal grab for a fair share of company profits, the robust position Qantas has in national and international markets and the deterioration of our wages against the rising cost of living, interest rates and day to day expenses. We believe our value and contribution to Qantas is worth more than upper management is wiling to pay.
3. These 'battles' are normal in democratic countries where 'people' are permitted to legally protest or take industrial action against 'business'.
4. The newspapers & media appear to be already siding with the union given Qantas's balance sheet and the minor pay rise compared to other pay claims by various unions and employee groups. The 4.2% inflation rate against the 5% is quiet reasonable.

Finally I would be coming out firing on all cylinders. Do not give Qantas a chance to find alternate work force or methods. 48hour Strike from 0001 on the 13th May. That where we start and we will then return with a long long lag time to fix the mess until QF comes to table.

Just hold the line brothers.

[wanty]

I agree,the knockout punch is needed from the word go.

They have had 18 months to come to the table with a decent offer and have

treated us with contempt at every opportunity.

[The Black Panther]

Energex workers join industrial action

Posted Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:32pm AEST
Queensland Energex workers have joined other workers in the state's energy sector in a push for more pay and better working conditions.
About 400 workers from Ergon Energy and Powerlink have walked off the job for 24 hours today, and 590 union members at Energex have now voted to take industrial action.
Peter Simpson from the Electrical Trades Union (ETU) says employees are only being offered a 4.5 per cent pay increase, which he says is not adequate.
"They want us to trade off conditions to achieve that 4.5 per cent for all three Government Owned Corporations: Ergon, Energex and Powerlink are reading off the same script and that script's been handed to them by the Queensland State Government," he said.
Energex says their proposal is a fair pay offer and includes improvements to existing allowances and income protection.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/04/29/2230531.htm?section=business

[wanty]

Ballot result,read on people.


http://www.airc.gov.au/dispute/industrial_action/alaea/alaea_20082975.pdf

[chockchucker]

I think that's what you'd call a fairly strong mandate. In anybody's language. Be prepared for an 11th hour offer from Qantas in order to avert action, only to retreat from it once action is called off.

Old dogs and old tricks.


It's probably going to get worse before it gets better unfortunately. Stick to your guns and you'll prevail in the end. You're on the right side of this fight.:ok:

[wanty]

Due to the last eleventh hour offer from QF being not worth a pinch of goat

sh%t and falling short (in writing), of what was verbally agreed upon,they

have proven they can't be trusted.

Hit them where it counts,2 day walk off.

Ground the fleet.

[The_King]

Previously on this thread;
The trolls were suggesting (Mr Qantas to be exact) that the majority of Qf Lames were happy with their pay.

It would appear from the vote… the trolls were wrong once more.

Wow, wasn't the vote close.

[Short_Circuit]

Question

If every QF manager was to go off sick for the same 2 days

would anyone notice? :p

Question

If every LAME took the same 2 days off would Qantas survive? :eek: :}

[Annulus Filler]

Eagerly awaiting for the ALAEA's directive for next thursday. Could be a long weekend.

[wanty]

Come on now,surely under this scenario,QF managers would have everyone

believe that they have the livelihoods of every employee to worry about,they

couldn't possibly have 2 days off.

They don't have something as "TRIVIAL" as the "LIVES" of the general

travelling public to concern themselves with.

[blubak]

U can sign me up too.
Interesting to note amongst other things in there-THE 1% SUPER INCREASE FOR ALL-"FAIR" means we all get it.
1 more thing-go back a few posts,Energex thinks 4.5% is a fair offer for their staff,QF lame,s would probably agree.

[Short_Circuit]

I would like to see all above, PLUS,

NO LOSS OF WAGES on Long Service Leave.

Loss of ONLY average penalty rates on Sick Leave.

(It is only fair that all employees are treated the same, not just disadvantage shift workers as they do.)

AND 5%

[Millet Fanger]

QE Management Wrong Again

Yes they have shown that they don't understand their workforce again, just like they don't understand aviation maintenance. Totally out of touch, their trolls have misled them.

Vote result would be close to 90%. The extra couple of percent takes account of those who support the ALAEA's argument, for one reason or another didn't want to vote Yes, but fully support the democratic process. They will support PIA as directed by the Exec.

Lets see, those still holding out for the No vote are LAMEA380, trustee, Jonny V and Mr Qantas. Oh yes, and the 19 individuals that will be 'rushed' into the management ranks in Sydney. Watch this space! Look out for resignations from the ALAEA.

[Dr Itzfukt]

PIA up, 81% yes

[wanty]

How easy,just say





NO

[Short_Circuit]

NO


Bzzzzzzzz.......bzzzzzzzz.......bzzzzzzzzzzz..........click

[wanty]

lol......

.

[wanty]

......................................

[wanty]

Point Taken:ok:

[wanty]

.--. .- -.-- ..- ... --- ..- .-. ..... .--. . .-. -.-. . -. - -.-- --- ..- -.-. .... . .- .--. .--. .-. .. -.-. -.- -.. .. -.-. -.- ---

:ok:

[wanty]

.--- ..- ... - ... .- -.-- -. --- --..-- -... ..- - -... ..- --. --. . .-. --- ..-. ..-. .... .- ... ... ..- -.-. .... .- -... . - - . .-. .-. .. -. --. - --- .. -

[Short_Circuit]

.--- ..- ... - ... .- -.-- -. --- --..-- -... ..- - -... ..- --. --. . .-. --- ..-. ..-. .... .- ... ... ..- -.-. .... .- -... . - - . .-. .-. .. -. --. - --- .. -


The way it has killed the thread I guess no one was there.

[JETTRONIC]

Originally Posted by SpannerTwister
3% pa
Two levels for EVERYONE
Four-year agreement
One extra level in two years
No caps / quotas
No training points, All points are "service" points
1% extra super for ALL
Staff-travel upgrade as previously agreed
Total Wage <<== Paying attention Fed Sec ???
You want to talk about rosters ? Not in this EBA, that's a separate issue !

Don't forget "Confirmed Biss on duty travel (other airlines)":ok:

The time has come, just look at the rats run.

Show me the money:D

[wanty]

check your pm's short circuit

[Sunfish]

My guess is that QF will submit a new offer to you guys in about five minutes from now....by fax. That will be 4.55pm on Friday evening EST.

It's an old trick to eff up your weekend. Failing that it will be 4.55 pm on a weeknight to get you to work through the night to reply the next day.

Expect more cheese paring and obfuscation.

Good luck!

[MILSPEC]

Just adding my voice & support.
Don't get gready. Lets just make sure we get an outcome that is fair to ALL. With a bit of luck we might achieve the added bonus of a few management casulties.
We all know what is needed now. Support your EXEC and follow their lead.
KEEP COOL, WORK SAFE, BE PATIENT.:ok:

[blubak]

Considering we have only been getting a 3% increase for the past god knows how many yrs,it would have to be someone very shallow or biased in their thinking to even suggest we are greedy(makes us look ok in the public,s eye you would think).Yes-very important not to get greedy now,something FAIR would be nice though.1% super increse for ALL is a good place to start.

[wanty]

I couldn't care less about the extra 1% super,I want more money in my

fortnightly pay packet.I want more money to pay my bills TODAY not when I

retire.

[Short_Circuit]

wanty

.--- ..- ... - ... .- -.-- -. --- --..-- -... ..- - -... ..- --. --. . .-. --- ..-. ..-. .... .- ... ... ..- -.-. .... .- -... . - - . .-. .-. .. -. --. - --- .. -

he he he ha!:)

[Acute Instinct]

What the hell is going on here! Statements like 'lets not be greedy' and who could forget 'lets be reasonable'. You must be lost and are on the wrong thread. Who in there right mind would undertake this crap for the poultry settlements you suggest. Less than an official headline 5% will be a shameful embarrassment given our position. Forgive me if I appear unreasonable, but this line stinks of back peddling trolls attempting to condition us to give mercy if required. Who really cares what it adds up to. Its about more than the money. Its about showing the delusional people running this show that bullies and disrespect have no place at Qantas. The strength and resolve we show now shall determine our futures. To think twice in future before screwing people blind. To tell the truth instead of lies.

Minimum 5% Headline!

[Short_Circuit]

Too right

We gave them MERCY last 2 EBAs when they cried poor with the promise we would reap the benefit of the good times.

1.5 BILLION dollars profit is the good times.

Put the money where your mouth is G.D.

[Acute Instinct]

Spanner Twister! Read your list! You don't get it, do you? Me,me,me! Look a little past the front of your nose. Look as far as is required to see whats best to steer you to retirement. Bending over and being reasonable? Or taking a stand without comprimise? Don't forget, opportunity for the company to stitch a deal along the lines you suggest as reasonable, were dashes when they told you and the rest of us to get stuffed for 18 months! The difference between war and a deal at 5% is some $3.2M. Just less than half of GD's yearly package. Less than half of one man's yearly earnings to send 1600 people and Qantas to the wall. Now tell me whats reasonable! I'm off to be sick!

5% No Less!

[Talkwrench]

With respect to comments thus far, I would suggest that the best chance of improving the current offer is to stay united, follow the execs directions to the letter and encourage your colleagues to do the same.

[Toolpants]

If I could drag the conversation to another direction.

The upcoming OT Bans.
As the DMM’s are ALAEA members, I think it would be unethical for them to ask other ALAEA members to do overtime during protected action.

SO DON'T DO IT !!!!!

If we all stick together we will win.
Just let the chaos happen.

[employes perspective]

Bravo Mendareo,you Hit The Nail Square On The Head,this Eba Should Be About % Not Increasing Levels,you Are All F@cking The New People Coming Through With This Lvl Crap

[rudderless1]

Wow, members now starting to think about some one other than themselves!
That is STRENGTH!:D:ok::ok:

Keep it up, that is what the company fears most and enables 100% outcomes in lieu of 51% ones and further strength in future negs aswell:ok:.

[Ragnar Benson]

Toolpants you are right the new battle at the moment is the "OVERTIME RESTRICTIONS"

As the Fed Sec has stated in the last ALAEA notice "O/T on a rostered day will be up to the individual"

Does this mean that the ALAEA has no issue with individuals or reps choosing to do O/T on a rostered day????

You know they will hide behind the ALAEA notice and our trolls and sycophants will join the congo line of suckholes behind MH JV and DC.

Sounds likes our "MATES" will once again get the O/T and the payrise.

"DRAW THE LINE IN THE SAND".

The members have endorsed your direction. GO FOR IT!!

Give that bully the blood nose he deserves!!!!

[Acute Instinct]

Please accept my apology for not having previously elaborated on my own personal wishes. Its because I was sure somebody else would look after the bits in behind the 5. I was too busy looking at the big picture. You have done very well and I implore you to forward the details to Bexley. In the end, the final document may be twenty pages long, yet its strength, integrity,and message will be determined by one headline number. That's a 5. Please take the time to deeply consider the message for all time. We need change as much as we need money. And the message must be clear. The people make an organisation. So treat them right and they will look after the rest. Qantas has not done that, so now it is time to pay! Take pride. Pride is five. At least I could explain five to my partner as some sort of outcome. Without her turning around and showing me the P-plate driver's little pinky. Embarrassing really.


5%++++


5%++++

[600ft-lb]

read between the lines... if they come out and say no overtime at all ever, then if you refuse to do overtime as an association direction as part of our industrial action, you can be docked 4 hours pay for carrying out 'industrial action'. it is up to the individual, personally, i have to pick up the kids from school or my wife parents are arriving at the airport soon are the type of reasons which would make overtime after shift for example, unable to be done.

[Acute Instinct]

Too right! SILENCE! You cannot be forced to speak, sit, stand, walk, with a person you find unsavoury, unless it is to carry out the bare minimum required to complete a task. Works absolute wonders on children. Kids say its like a prison with no bars. Lock them up! Get's them in the corner! Accountability! Bring on the loneliness! No rumours, comments, intimidation, harrassment. Just psychological isolation..... The worst pain of all.

[wingers]

So suddenly this EBA is about the next generation!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a load of crap!!!!!!!!! spread by militants who want to damage QF for the sake of it, and hide behind this crap, i tell you all this is a big mistake and i will not be part of this gang militant mentality who will no doubt call me a troll because i dare raise a dissenting opinion.

If asked i will be doing O/T as the rules state this is ok.

As for any intimidation and crap well please spare me, i really do not give a damm, the only person i do not want intimidating me is my Bank Manager.

[employes perspective]

wingers,thinking about others than yourself is hardly militancy's,i'm sure when our predecessors fought for sick leave,annual leave,longer service,etc,etc.It was for the common good of all.
As for your bank manager i'm sure you have accumulated enough OT money to get through this dispute.

[division1]

I'd like to see rolling 4hr stop work meetings up and down the coast.
Mel one day, then Syd, Bne next, etc, etc, then go around again 4 days later
and get the other shifts. 4hrs loss of pay and maximum disruptions.
Oh yeah, don't forget to take 5, have a cuppa, take a crap,
then log what parts of the aircraft are disassembled before going to the meetings.
Too bad the meetings might be held at the peak time.
"The horror... the horror,"

[Acute Instinct]

Wingers, the supposed militants blinded by visions of truth, justice, and fairness will carry you through. If financial hardship is what shapes your views, and it appears so, I sincerely simpathise. I'm sure you understand the vast majority can not be expected to take responsibility for your situation and tone it down. The exec will look after you! I'm sure you've seen countless movie's with the following story line. 'JUST STAY IN THE CAR SON, DAD'S GOT A JOB TO DO'. You are a member of an organisation, in a situation where its all for one, and one for all. 81% leaves 19% that disagree. 19% that although object, must respect the democratic process and tow the line. This is the Australian Way. The Australian Airline will understand. The country was built on it!

[The Black Panther]

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/may2008/qant-m09.shtml



Qantas chief threatens “showdown" with workers over pay

By Terry Cook
9 May 2008

Qantas Airlines chief executive Geoff Dixon has issued a thinly-veiled strike-breaking threat against the company’s 1,700 licensed engineers, who recently threw out a deal signed by their union for a 3-percent pay rise, far less than the official inflation rate of 4.2 percent.
In a lengthy feature interview with the Australian Financial Review (AFR) on May 5, Dixon warned that the company would shift operations to low-wage locations. “We are determined—and I mean determined—to maintain that 3 percent. It’s not negotiable and I mean that. The board has signed off on it.”
An in-principle agreement signed by the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) in February was overturned by the union’s members in a ratification ballot. The engineers, who inspect and certify aircraft before they take off, are currently voting on strike action for a 5 percent claim.
While theAFR headlined the interview, “Dixon flags a final union showdown,” his threats are clearly directed against the rank-and-file who defied the ALAEA executive.
The union’s package also contained concessions, such as giving management complete control over rostering, allowing it to impose 9.5-hour, 10.9-hour and even 12-hour rosters to meet the traffic schedules of Qantas’s new A380 fleet. The proposal lifted restrictions on the employment of fixed-term contract workers and allowed the company to increase its use of part-time and casual workers.
The engineers’ rejection of the package stunned both the company and the ALAEA. The engineers had been under intense pressure to bow to the company’s dictates, with acceptance of the agreement widely billed in the media as a foregone conclusion. ALAEA federal secretary Wayne Vasta hailed the deal as “a win for our members”.
The company made known it had made strike-breaking arrangements and began recruiting a scab workforce. It threatened to send inspection work offshore if the ALAEA members “proved too disruptive”. In effect, Dixon’s interview has resurrected that threat.
Moreover, the ballot was held against the backdrop of much publicised demands by Prime Minister Kevin Rudd that workers accept “wage restraint”, supposedly to combat inflation—a call that was accepted by the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU).
The Flight Attendants Association of Australia (FAAA) had already imposed a five-year agreement on its 3,000 Australian-based long-haul cabin crew members that held down pay increases to just 3 percent annually and accepted inferior pay and longer working hours for 2,000 new starters. Qantas intended to use both the ALAEA and FAAA agreements as benchmarks to impose the 3 percent ceiling and extract concessions from the rest of its workforce.
In his AFR interview, Dixon declared that if “we can’t get the conditions to maintain our aircraft onshore,” Qantas would “decide to invest in operations overseas”. He added: “We compete with maintenance operations in Hong Kong, Singapore, China and the Philippines.”
Qantas slashed its maintenance workforce in 2006 when it shut its heavy engineering base in Sydney at the cost of 480 jobs. Last December, the airline bought a half stake in Malaysian-based MAS Aerospace Engineering to give it access to the Asian aircraft maintenance market. While Qantas claimed that the Malaysian operation would only take “overflow” work from its Australian base, Dixon’s latest threat implies the opposite.
Qantas is moving to match a host of its international competitors who have transferred maintenance operations to China. The ALAEA has responded by whipping up Australian nationalism, blaming workers in low-wage countries for the loss of “Australian” job. A genuine campaign to defend jobs and conditions would necessarily require turning to airline workers in Asia and internationally for a joint struggle against the endless cost cutting of Qantas and other airlines.
Last year, Dixon and his fellow directors backed a failed $11.1 billion takeover bid of Qantas by a Macquarie Bank-led syndicate, Airline Partners Australia (APA). The bid would have allowed APA to rip back $4 billion in dividends after 12 months and load Qantas with $7.5 billion of its own debt. Hundreds more jobs would have been axed as APA asset-stripped and carved-up the company. Dixon and other board members stood to gain as much as $200 million each.
Now, facing rising fuel prices and fierce global competition, Qantas is determined to maximise profits by imposing ever-greater cost cutting on its workforce. In the six months to December 31, it posted a pre-tax profit of $830 million from its mainline flying business, more than double the previous result.
Any strike-breaking operation by Qantas would undoubtedly have the support of the Rudd government because a defeat for the engineers would help set the scene for wider “wage restraint”. Dixon, along with other leading coporate CEOs, was an honoured participant in Rudd’s recent “2020 summit”, which advanced calls to slash corporate taxes, reduce business regulation and open up infrastructure projects to private investment.
While the engineers face a determined campaign by the company, backed by the Labor government and other sections of the corporate and financial elite, the ALAEA has made no appeal for support from other sections of Qantas workers or workers in general, all of whom face similar attacks.
Left in the hands of the ALAEA, the engineers’ dispute will be betrayed. Like every section of the union leadership, the ALAEA is well aware that a genuine struggle against Qantas would attract wide support among working people and could become a focal point for a political movement that would challenge the Rudd government and its big business agenda.

[Toolpants]

Wingers, if loss of OT is a problem for you, It would benefit you to get this dispute over as quickly as possible.
The dispute will be shorter If nobody does OT at any time now. If some do OT at the end of the shift and “make it work” for the company, you will only be prolonging the pain.

Big delays, total chaos and as soon as possible will be the way to get it over quicker.

[The Black Panther]

A report on the Bloomberg Television (Angela Macdonald-Smith)web site reports planned 4 hour stoppages on the 16 & 23 May.

"The labor association told Qantas overtime bans will start May 15 and that four-hour stop-work meetings will be held May 16 and May 23, the airline said."

The full article can be read here:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aX.BPDF36_xM&refer=home

Dixon will not be a pushover prepare for the occasional pay 40hours minus two days pay. The best weapon we have is supplied by management, don't lose your cool, follow the instructions from the union and always follow the company procedures manual.......TO THE LETTER !!!!!:E

If we don't go in hard just chill out on a standard 38hr week and let QF pay the Newport Boys the $$$$$ to take up the slack. Spend some extra time with your kids or your Missus (mistress?). We will get a call at some stage.

[blubak]

An interesting article for all to read.
http://money.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=560009

[thosecotos]

Dixon will not be a pushover

Right on. As an outsider it's easy to comment, but be careful friends. You might be fighting for 5% but there could be devastation at the end. If truly scorned, in return you might lose Tulla to JHAS and O/S, Receipt and Dispatch to the new world, and preflights on NG, 330 and 380 to MSG-3 so it will be a very expensive 2% for those who remain.

[The Black Panther]

True thosecotos, however our actions will merely fast track the outcome, whether that means new employment for some of us or a pay rise with our current employer, the outcome will not change what was going to happen at some time in the future.

Our claim for a slightly higher pay claim is not something that will send this company to the wall, it is a challenge to the company's wages policy due to a change in macro economics and the belt tightening we workers have endued while company profits have been healthy and the increase cost of living we are experiencing. I am sure if QF is gracious in defeat we can partner with them to continue our high standard of aircraft maintenance and a common goal toward a high standard of competitive work practices.

In saying that, like in any argument if either of us lose our cool there will be grief. Hopefully it's at Coward St;)

[The masked goatrider]

Hey Cotos lets forget the PIA because we are too scared. Lets just cave in and give management everything they want and hope they look after us in return. Just like they did when the SHM boys got the big A.

Have heard that the ALAEA have created some new Committees. One about Safety or something and another to monitor the strikebreakers and OT lords. I also heard that the first reports started to come back today.

OT list from Base was interesting. Two vocal opponents of 3% who recently attending the rowers meetings. Pretty sure they understood the game we are all playing and they still turn up to do the dirty on their mates. I just wonder myself if they felt just a slight bit of guilt as they walked through the gate and sat on the table with their temporary crew.

Ah well, I understand their names have been added to the list.

Have also heard that "The Voice" will be making a much overdue comeback.

[Acute Instinct]

Assess the record. Where is Spanner Twister at! This is the sort of infiltration to be expected on this thread at this time. Spanner Twister, you have sat your time on the fence. Your last post smells! Your double meanings beg questioning.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Bring back the Voice,Bring back the Voice...................

[The masked goatrider]

Our ALAEA leaders cowards because they have a committee taking the names of all the mongrels who are lapping up the OT? You don't know what a coward is DOMO.

This is what I think a coward is.

A LAME who knows very well that he is about to go to battle led by his union and the objective is to make the airline slowly bleed to death because their is no overtime. But he does overtime to help the airline out. He uses a lame excuse about it not officially starting yet knowing full well that the only reason it hadn't started is because the union has to give the company 5 days notice to comply with Howards laws. A coward is a man that can't stand up to his wife and say, darling, I know you want a new dress but I want to keep my dignity and that means a hell of a lot more to me than your new f*en dress. Thats what a coward is.

[REALITY]

There is NO excuse for helping out QF!

That is all that needs to be said.

Be strong and it will be over quickly.

[employes perspective]

send the OT bastards to Coventry,thats is what rid the the AME's of their cowards in the 01-02 dispute,just about all of them left at the end of that dispute never to return

[acslame]

You know, The part of this whole thing that just amazes me
is that all we are really going for is CPI and we get treated like the worst
people in the world.
Dixon and his mates get HUGE bonuses and pay rises and that is OK

[Anulus Filler]

ACSLAME

You know, The part of this whole thing that just amazes me
is that all we are really going for is CPI and we get treated like the worst
people in the world.
Dixon and his mates get HUGE bonuses and pay rises and that is OK


Short, sweet and to the point. You can't argue with that...unless you're an executive manager with no morals.

[wanty]

Good post and to the point. for any media reading this thread I have cut and pasted acslame's post for clarity.


You know, The part of this whole thing that just amazes me
is that all we are really going for is CPI and we get treated like the worst
people in the world.
Dixon and his mates get HUGE bonuses and pay rises and that is OK

[Short_Circuit]

You know, The part of this whole thing that just amazes me
is

that this bunch of so called managers are lying to us, the AIRC, the flying public and Government all the while

snorting from the trough and committing international fraud, ie cargo cartel, slapping each other on the back,

high "FIVEs" etc thinking what a wonderful job they are doing.

They appear to be immoral & corrupt and don't care. :=

[Toolpants]

Lets not forget they tried to sell us to a (now collapsed fund) so they could all get a couple of 100 million payment / bribe.

[Shrug]

Dixon and his mates get HUGE bonuses and pay rises and that is OK

That is "OK" as he/they are keeping your wages down. :yuk:

Good Luck LAME's. :ok:

[K9P]

Wanty
Very good point.

I think the official inflation rate for the quarter was 4%, but the real underlying inflation rate is running at about 12.5%.
So realistically, how can Qantas state a 3% rise is the standard, when the "Boards" payments/bonuses go up Dependant on economic situations.
Good Luck Guys.

[wanty]

wasn't my point k9p, it was acslame who pointed this out, I just made it larger, although I wholeheartedly agree with it.

Sick of being ripped off year after year by the suits who wouldn't know the first thing about aircraft if it bit them on the arse.:}