Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[blubak]

Fedsec & others,
if there is a chance that qf are going to come back with something at least half meaningful this week why dont we just sit tight and see what it is(sometimes u get something when u least expect it).If it proves to be useless or another obvious time wasting exercise well we still have the option to have the next round of stop-works(or whatever) but lets not cut off our noses to spite our face at this late stage when there could be some slight chance(however small it may be) that something could be offered.We have waited nearly 18 months to get to this stage-another few days is not going to make a lot of difference.Again i say, if qf again prove they can not be trusted, well we have further and more evidence on our side for the public to see and hear that we are being led up the garden path(so to speak).
Interested to hear comments on this post,tks.

[protyrekicker]

Again i say, if qf again prove they can not be trusted, well we have further and more evidence on our side for the public to see and hear that we are being led up the garden path(so to speak).
Interested to hear comments on this post,tks.

Blubak,

When is enough enough for you? If you have been reading this thread, you'd have noticed that patience is wearing thin across the board. I don't think you'll get much support for restraint at this, as you say "late stage". Too much sitting tight. Its time for us to up the ante. :confused:

What do you reckon S.nest???

[Galley Raider]

A mate of mine at SIT just told me an interesting story.
A LAME was docked 4hrs pay today for refusing to go to Noumea and back on OGT on a bodgy shift change. Krispy Kreme Mills rang up at 5am to deliver the threat but the LAME stood firm.

When OGT arrived back in Syd in the afternoon there were some irregularities in the tech log. Apparently there was an un-actioned entry into Noumea for one HF u/s. Also the A/C departed Noumea without the RTS signed!
Apparently there is a STRANGE manager/lame who is in Noumea who cannot sign Radio defects and will probably be contributing to the CASA xmas bbq fund. $$$. CASA and ALAEA have been informed.

How is this “Safety before Schedule” Mr. Cox? There is only about 2000ks of ocean between Syd and Noumea.

[section 41]

Mendero,

Like your idea to give notice of various stop work meetings at different ports while adhering to the 3 days notice required by law.

Notify 20 or 30 instances of stop work meetings and carry out 4 or 5.

BUT WHICH 4 or 5?????

Difficult for scabs and ops managers to plug all the holes in the Dyke if they don't know which Dyke will spring a leak first. It's a long way between Per and Syd or Darwin and Melbourne

For consideration Fed Sec.

[sickofqf]

Is is really a legal requirement to give them 3 days notice, i thought that only applied to the initial activation of PIA ?


"Pass-A-Frozo is on your ignore list"

ahhhhhhh, silence is bliss !!!!!!

Now for god sake everyone......IGNORE HIM and he'll crawl back under his rock........

[Acute Instinct]

1000 posts wiped and you still don't get it do you. Listening, is power. What communist state did you originate from considering your reflex accusations of same. Essential service! Protect it at all costs! Make these bastards work on their days off! Bring in a 70 hour week! Then post it on the front pages 'WORKERS FORCED TO DO OVERTIME BECAUSE PAF SAID SO! This kind of expected faeces from you would go along way to explaining why you have no need to spend time with your family. Pity you didn't listen and learn before it all fell apart in 2002. But hey 'at least you were right'.

[Konehead]

I agree with blubak. Patience is a virtue. The longer this goes, the deeper the hole QF dig themselves. After waiting 18 months, I for one can wait a few more days to let the pressure build.

However! I agree with protyrekicker in that enough is enough. We need to escalate after the next meeting.

1. Let's give them fair warning so they're correctly motivated to negotiate,
2. If QF does the highly likely "3% is all you're getting" again, smash 'em with the 4 hour stop-work meetings from the early AM hours in the main ports (BNE, SYD, MEL, ADL, PER),
3. I'm sure the vote for 8 hour shift will get up during the meetings, especially if "sold" right by the exec,
4. Warn the co. that if no progress is made, we will withdraw from the 8 hour shift at a time of our choosing. Fri 27 Jun (QLD), 4 July (NSW), Fri 11 July (VIC) is beginning of winter school holidays. Hmmm... :eek:

That said, the exec has a plan. I for one will sit back and see how it unfolds! :ok::}

[Konehead]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galley Raider
one HF u/s.....How is this “Safety before Schedule” Mr. Cox?

You're having a laugh right? One HF - I can't believe the tech crew didn't declare a MayDay!

The pilot could have applied the MEL on the U/S HF system. But an aircraft should not leave the ground without the RTS signed, unless the co. has a dispensation from CASA given with prior notice, i.e., into AYQ or HBA without a LAME on duty. Simple.

[Konehead]

A simple logic test. Do you really think Australian legislation allows you to "drag a company to it's knee's" whilst you draw your pay check that you did before you started this?

A simple logic test. How could a company let it get itself in the situation that the long term survival of the company depends on engineers doing overtime?

[acslame]

Like what paf?
They have closed line 2
closed syd heavy mnt
threatened tulla heavy with closure
outsourced work
closed support shops
threatened to give the 380 to john holland
want to give the 787 to jetstar
and we are being run by a pack of incompetent fools in a totally
unsustainable way.
so paf what are they going to do?
retrench us?
50% of lame's would now probably take it .

[Konehead]

Excellent post Konehead. Paperwork issue, NOT SAFETY ISSUE.

You guys try make it sound like "If I don't get to go pee on time it's a safety issue".

You are overplaying the safety card. Even you should admit, calling the "safety card" on one U/S HF if pretty weak.

One HF sys isn't a safety issue. Even with both HF systems U/S the aircraft could still get back to Aus, so long as it stayed in range of VHF stations, including other aircraft.
The point is, the law is the law and Co. procedure is co. procedure. We have to stick to both. It's a dismissible offence if we don't. But only if it suits the co.
CASA didnt issue a dispensation for this flight number. So QF and the LAME in question has breached CASA regs.

[protyrekicker]

The issue with aircraft flying with open defects or an unsigned RTS is a Legal one. Any airline that will knowingly break the law with regard to maintenance requirements has crossed the line. Am sure the travelling public would agree and if this has, in fact occurred, lets hope our friends at CASA have the courage to act appropriately.

[blubak]

Tks for replies protyrekicker & konehead,
Pls dont for a minute even think that my patience is not wearing thin also,i really dont know why i could even think there might be a small hope but i suppose just hoping there could be something in the pipeline.
Maybe PAF should realise that if the other party to this dispute were even half serious about solving it then we would not even be here.
Have a look in the past PAF when deals were made especially the 1 when we went without a pay rise for 18-24mts(exact times arent important but the intent of it is,it was to help the company out).
Its very easy to forget when it suits,but be assured lots of people wont forget what we have been put through so far and all for what??

[Short_Circuit]

No Return To Service = No RETURN TO SERVICE

That is the LAW.

Aircraft should not leave the ground in Australian Law!

Heads MUST roll.

[another superlame]

HEADS MUST ROLL

I hope that includes PAF the rock spider. he has obviously never had to work under the GD regime so I have decided to add the ignoramus to my ignore list as well. So long PAF I hope your rock is warm.

[sickofqf]

So long PAF I hope your rock is warm.

What's wrong with cold, wet and haemorrhoid inducing ??? :p

[upsidefront]

PAF, what's going on mate?
Five or so posts and none of them deleted before anybody could take pot shots?
Feeling fatigued?

[kotoyebe]

Last week about half of Adelaide's emergency department doctors tendered their resignations to take effect in two weeks unless their pay demands are met.

The state government says senior emergency department doctors now earn $313,158 annually and its offer will take them to $355,976, but the doctors want a rise to $424,633.
Source: Sydney Morning Herald

Quick!!!..Someone tell these communists
that they are an essential service. They will be chained to the operating tables and forced to work at whatever pay that is deemed "sustainable". Oil prices are high, so governments can't pay doctors. Typical bully behaviour by union member communist doctors trying to bring down the health system for their own selfish desires. The hospital system, like airlines in Australia are impeccably managed.

[blubak]

Paf,where did u get that information from???
We have been told we will all get 3%,we have been told we will all get 1% increase in super which isnt true,our wage structure has rewards for years of service up to a certain point-then u get nothing for years of service.
Is that a chance to argue??-dont think so!!
Now-tell us more about the chance to argue-would love to hear when we had it.

[springbeam]

Folks for the lame's that stopped work the other week and had there pay adjusted accordingly, I would like to remind all the lame's that joined after April 96(and do not attract shift penalties for starting before 0700), please check your pay slip and make sure Qantas have not deducted shift penaltys from your pay! Yet again I find myself having to ring qantas connect to ask if they wouldn't mind contacting payroll again and having the shift penalties credited back to my pay, as I do not attract them in the first place! I'snt it amazing after 12 years they still can't get it right...........? If Qantas is trying to really p:mad:s me off they know how to push my buttons....

[protyrekicker]

PAF,

With regard to:
protyrekicker: You don't commit to anything other than rumour. I.e. you prove nothing (and don't open yourself up to libel)


li·bel·ous http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png–adjective
containing, constituting, or involving a libel; maliciously defamatory.

You are quite correct. I am pleased you noticed.

I prefer the level headed, intelligent approach. Perhaps you should attempt it.

[HotDog]

This thread sounds like question time in Parliament.:yuk:

[FCMC]

So if no RTS was there an ETOPS Check done?

[acslame]

PAF
so let them dock me.
I really don't care anymore.

[Konehead]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Konehead
simple logic test. How could a company let it get itself in the situation that the long term survival of the company depends on engineers doing overtime?

The LONG term survival of the company doesn't depend on it. Taking short notice action doesn't prove that the Long term survival depends on it. You make an illogical argument.

HUH?!?!
QE has been run down to such an extent that the only way the work gets done is if people work masses of overtime. When the overtime doesnt get done, the maintenance backlog builds up. When the backlog gets too large, the aircraft will get parked against the fence. No flying = no airline.
Please tell me how this is illogical.

[ejectx3]

PAF you're grasping at straws. Any intelligent man can see that the point is that the law was broken, not that HF is a serious safety issue. Surely you aren't that lame? Oh hang on........ :}

[vicky04]

PAF

You mean the free market that lets singapore airlines fly from oz to the states!!!!!

[Sunfish]

PAF is about twenty years behind the times, as is most of the ADF, fighting the last war.

Good luck finding "communists" PAF, ....better still I enjoy your right wing rants against these ghosts.

[Sunfish]

Moderators; You are being set up, furthermore, if this person (PAF) is actually RAAF, then he is bringing the service into disrepute.

[sickofqf]

Mendaero,

Chill brother, add PAF to ignore as many of the rest of us have. He just wants an argument and will argue black is white if someone will counter him.

Concentrate your energy on winning against Dixon, not some ill-educated twerp like PAF!


Oh, PAF, don't bother commenting on this
"Pass-A-Frozo is on your ignore list" is all I'll see :}

[Konehead]

PAF, I'm still waiting to see how I'm being illogical.

[capt.cynical]

Time for bed,get torch,shine under bed,look for communists,:}

phhwoo none thier,;)

Good night.:O

CC:p

[The Black Panther]

PAF, Don't you have a thread that is a positive move for you. Somewhere to hang out with like minded people.

You actually give me a laugh as I can just see you in the Monty Python skit knocking of the door for Arguments.
Do you know that one?

Knock Knock ....Is this the Arguments room? No This is the Abuse room, The Arguments room is two doors down. :D

You are one funny guy.

[1746]

To all guys and girls personally affected by the current destruction of QE by our collective management, we have to keep our eyes on the ball.

To put it more simply DO NOT rise to the bait on this forum from those wishing to bait us.

This thread has come very, very close to being closed by the moderators!

To date we have shown collective unity and our morale is at an all time high!

Do not let this vital means of communication be closed to us all by playing the man!!!!!!

Just stay on the topic, being thoughtful and considerate of others points of view.

If someone upsets you, do not respond, ignore them and rise above their ignorance!

Stay united and keep calm.

Good work, SP and the Executive, under your leadership we have been more united than ever!:D:D:D:D:D

[fatcat69]

I caught them today on the way to the uniform store!!!!!!!!!

Recognise any of them

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2zrdxkh&s=3

LOL ;););)

[Boardman]

Regarding the OGT No RTS signed.

Remember back recently when a Cairns LAME was stood down for some time for incorrect placement of a witches hat.

He was stood down for breaching QF policy. Mind you it was for incorrect placement.

So if OGT was allowed to FLY with no RTS either someone has to get sent to the sin bin or QF is REALLY bending the rules to suit itself. Unreal!

Also, while the 4 hour stoppage was on recently, QF procedures were broken knowingly by the Scabs. They were told in one case that the wrong thing was being done. No action to get legal was taken. It resulted in delays to sort out the mess these guys left. Quality lapses went in etc. Result, the whole deal was swept under the table.

These guys will and have changed the rules to suit themselves.

What a great example these so called Leaders of our company have shown the young AME's.

Well done idiots!

[Flugbegleiter]

PAF's a phantom! Good!

I noticed the QF1 didn't go tonight; it's now due to take off at 0730h (Mon).

[Red Baron]

Now that PAF has gone can you guys now focus your energy on more impoortant matters.

But before I finish rumour has it from one of my spys in MEL Heavy that possibly 'The PAF' use to work as a contracted LAME in MEL Heavy Maintenace some years ago! He had a nick name of, what was it again, ummmmmm, Oh that's right - Ten Thumbs!

Anyone watch 60 Minutes last night? According to them with have heaps of oil that there digging out of the ground in Alberta, Northern Canada. This supply is apparantly the second largest world supply! The report then went on to say that here in Australia we have huge deposits of shale oil that's waiting to be exploited. It did use to be mined some years ago but was shut down because of the vast quantities from Bass Strait. Might want to tell GD to download this story. Here's the link:

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=578851

Look forward to hearing/reading about your next round of stop work meetings guys, keep up the great work. :ok:

[BLF Goon]

There has been many instances of policy and procedures being disregarded. The company only seems to use them when it suits.

The witches hat incident in cairns wasnt the only one up there (but probably the most famous).There have been many where they tried to hang people,one person was once stood down for writing on a blank piece of paper,another has been forced into redundency because he went home for tea (as many other people did frequently including people currently in higher positions).

The way some staff are targeted and victimised is a direct reflection on the Qld manager and his dmm's.

These few instances are the tip of the ice berg.

[pablo m]

SP thanks for all you and the Executive are doing. Please advise the unions thoughts on media ad's to highlight QE's problems, the alaea's claims, the state of QANTAS in general - are we going to see newspaper or tv ad's?? I feel we may be losing the 'hearts and minds' of both the travelling and general public - stress the iconic status of QF. The latest QF ad campaign calls us 'the most experienced airline in the world' - we are losing that experience every day.
thanks again:)

moderators - thank you for your time:ok:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Exec has approved funding for some ads. Enough said.

cheers

[Dockie]

Red Baron - Post 2482.
I believe you are right.

"But before I finish rumour has it from one of my spys in MEL Heavy that possibly 'The PAF' use to work as a contracted LAME in MEL Heavy Maintenace some years ago! He had a nick name of, what was it again, ummmmmm, Oh that's right - Ten Thumbs!"

Hello to my good friend M A.:ok:

[blubak]

Fedsec,
when are u expecting qf to get back with their latest costs and maybe even an answer for us?

[Long Bay Mauler]

Well that new notice will put the cat amongst the pidgeons.......:D

[sickofqf]

Also 1 SIT LAME just stood down for not doing a shift swap to fly to NOU.

Is this even legal Steve? :ugh:

Unless the guy was foolish enough to say "no I'm doing PIA" then surely this is harrassment or bullying, or both and the manager in question can be sued? :=


I say enough, time to make an example of one of these QF management :mad: s :ugh::ugh:


On another note....wouldn't want to be in payroll.....I'm still having trouble figuring out if I'm part of this stop-work or not......what chance do they have!! Check those pay-packets VERY carefully. :ok:

[cabinhostie]

LAME's don't give in to GD, we are counting on you to be strong.

You have the support of the public as well as the cabin crew. I was involved in a lengthy delay due to stop work meetings and all the pax commented on GD being an a:mad:ole. we like being safe.

Also don't let the people down who have turned down $100,000 for 6months sitting on their bums for the principle of solidarity.

Best of luck to all of you!!!!!!!

[sickofqf]

Also don't let the people down who have turned down $100,000 for 6months sitting on their bums for the principle of solidarity

hear Hear

Gents, this is about way more than just 5% now. This is about forcing a culture change on QF management
It won't happen while Herr Dixon is still in the jack-boots but make no mistake, the unrest and discontent has been noted up high and there will be a changing of the guard or this airline will be gone in 10 years!! :\

[cabinhostie]

Just remember Qantas Engineering managers wouldn't be managers if they were clever;)

HANG IN THERE, they haven't got the backbone or attention span to succeed in a drawn out dispute.

[cabinhostie]

"sickofqf" , interesting pseudonym, is that 33,000 voices speaking as one?:D

[wake_up_geff]

the SIT LAME wasnt stood down he was docked 4 hours pay

as for the new ALAEA notice, I wonder which domestic LAME/acting DMM it is referring to....

good tactic fedsec half out half keeping the scabs out

http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon14.gif

its a wiggly day

[sickofqf]

If I could figure out how to change one's nic I have a better one I'd rather be using!!

[hannibal lector]

Just read latest notice. Now this is what i call f:=:=king em around. Fantastic way to confuse the hell out of them. This will drive them insane... Great job SP.

[Collando]

Do ya have to give them 7 days notice though?

[emal140]

Thanks
cabin hostie

[acslame]

THATS GOLD!!!!
Love your work SP.

[Hardworker]

Now that is creative, very clever tactics, management wont know what to do as for the SIT worker - docked 4hrs for not being a YES Man...

[poison pen]

When is it Brisbane's turn? please let us play also.

[rtv]

I have supported the union during this EBA .I lost 4 hours pay last stop work and I will miss out on another 4 hours on Monday.This I can handle.But please someone explain how having half the staff at work (in Sydney Base) will achieve much at all? .Management will just shuffle staff to critical areas. Personally ( and most folk I have spoken to)I think we should hit hard and fast.Rolling stop work meetings one after another.

I feel better now.

[cabinhostie]

is it the first letter of my first name or the first letter of my last name? (signed Duty Maintenance Manager:confused:);)




C'mon guys get tough, hit 'em hard and fast:ok:

[Acute Instinct]

How will adequate licence coverage be planned? What happens if the leading hand, or foreman, or DMM's name starts with A to K? Time to shuffle the cards. What a planning nightmare!
Saudi Arabia tonight announced it will be increasing production. Oil stocks lost an average 3% in todays trade.
Down comes the price of oil, up go our spirits! :ok:

[Ngineer]

But please someone explain how having half the staff at work (in Sydney Base) will achieve much at all? .

This was my initial thought, then I realised that when we walk out we will inevitably be replaced by someone else. So why not let it be us rather than them. At least we are the safest option, and we do not cut any corners. We have had reports of engineers from the last stop work, finding parts of the check that were certified by the managers, but not even carried out!!! This is simply not on.

[Ngineer]

as for the SIT worker - docked 4hrs for not being a YES Man... Today

Have a closer look, the notice states till end of shift. 5 hours, not 4.

[838]

I agree Poison Pen we have 1000% support in Brisvegas lets have ago steve.

[Anulus Filler]

C'mon guys get tough, hit 'em hard and fast

Naahh! This is more entertaining.... Stuff them around like they have been for 18 months.:ok:

[EWANQF]

Any chance you guys could post the latest notice?.Not in my inbox.:ok:

[Syd eng]

Not got it here either.

[numbskull]

Can someone post the latest notice, or at least the guts of it for those of us not in the ALAEA any longer.

[Anulus Filler]

SP... Great thinking on the work stoppages and very creative.

Could I suggest that maybe next time you have people who's 'mother's maiden name begins with A-K' or maybe if you are of a certain star sign. That way no one in QF would know what the F@(& is going on.:ok:

Would return them the thanks for keeping us in the lurch and would be a more difficult task to follow up who's there and who isn't.;)

[tnfixer]

Good work
I'm so looking foreward to work next week.

[jakethemuss]

My guess is that you will be locked out.

Be prepared.

[600ft-lb]

If they do get locked out, watch it hit the fan everywhere else. I can see mass sickies until the 3 day notice period to take another 48 hours stop work being served happening. Won't the scabs, I mean non-unionised alternative workforce be busy then!

[rudderless1]

QP: 06412008
16 June 2008

TO: ALAEA MEMBERS - QANTAS and FORSTAFF
RE: EBA UPDATE 16JUNE
Notification to Qantas
Today the ALAEA sent notification to Qantas to clarify our continued plans for work
stoppages as part of the Protected Action authorised in May 2008. Members will note that
in most cases the work stoppages have been split with roughly half the membership
remaining at work during the PIA period. After the last round of stoppages we had a
number of maintenance mishaps reported from the period that managers were working as
LAMEs such as:
Aircraft released with open defects
Defects deferred to ONS without MEL's applied
Direct LA flights with engine oils incorrectly checked
Aircraft pushbacks commenced with chocks in place
Bay changes without gear pins fitted
The ALAEA understands that our actions should not lead to a reduction in safety either
directly or indirectly. As such we have concerns that the use of managers who are not
employed as LAMEs to do our jobs is a reduction in safety. We would rather do the
responsible thing and leave a reduced but fully qualified team of aviation professionals on
deck to carry out their normal duties.
Members Being Targeted
Today's notification also contains instruction for Sydney Domestic LAMEs to return from
Sydney International to their own section if they are acting in DMM positions. This action
is being taken as it has been reported that SIT members are being punished and taken out of
Acting positions as a punitive measure for in the words of one member "because he didn't
get the qfxxx out before curfew last night". If our members are being targeted in this way
we will not allow this to happen by positioning LAMEs from other areas in the section.
STEPHEN PURVINAS
Federal Secretary
"To undertake supervise and certify for the safety of all who fly. "

[off-sked]

If qf thinks it has the ability to operate with LAME's locked out, they'd have done it already. Any reduction of the number of LAME's at the coal face (due stp wrks or lock-out) will only serve to increase delays and greenies. Even considering the apparent levels of arrogance in management, lock-outs don't make sense.

[Red Baron]

So good to read some solidarity from other parts of QF - finally! :ok:


cabinhostie

Is it the first letter of my first name or the first letter of my last name? (signed Duty Maintenance Manager:confused:);)




C'mon guys get tough, hit 'em hard and fast:ok:


Love Your Work Fed Sec, Love Your Work! :D

[emal140]

If i get this right, QF are letting things roll on as is whilst they 'grow' there alternative workforce. The ALAEA in the meantime can maintain aircraft safety by trying to limit inappropriate personel pretending to fix aircraft, and as a consequence the defects that can't be actioned due to lack of manpower will build up and up. Am I correct so far....

My only question, what if... During the ALAEA dispute over superannuation in the late 70's/early 80's the domestic airlines TAA and Ansett rewrote their Procedures Manuals (CAA endorsed it) effectively removing all of the Australian ports except Melbourne as maintenance ports. Question is how will CASA receive Qantas currently with similar graciousness?

[acslame]

To be honest I don't think CASA want a bar of what is going on.
I haven't heard one report of them taking any action over
breaches to the regulations.
It seems to me that all they are interested in is our
licensing fees.
If anything they would be loving this, look at all
the extra money they would be making with all those
alternate workforce people re sitting AA.

[v900]

"PAF is about twenty years behind the times, as is most of the ADF, fighting the last war"

nice work sunfish, nothing like slagging off the entire defence force, it would appear that you have never served, and remember that term served, as in your country as thousands do every day. They don't do it for the great pay and conditions, they do it in some of the worst conditions imaginable and have no voice. So that somepone like you who gets peeved off at one person, PAF, can then tar everybody with the same brush. And as for fighting the last war, I suggest you do a little bit of research, you may even find that our guys are getting shot at even as I type.... so who's 20 years behind the times now? also don't forget your rant in the hanger during smoko about ADF personal, I'm sure there are a few ex members who would be more than happy to take you outside for some "contact councelling", although to do that would take guts, something that you would know very little about.

[Konehead]

"PAF is about twenty years behind the times, as is most of the ADF, fighting the last war"

nice work sunfish, nothing like slagging off the entire defence force, it would appear that you have never served, and remember that term served, as in your country as thousands do every day. They don't do it for the great pay and conditions, they do it in some of the worst conditions imaginable and have no voice. So that somepone like you who gets peeved off at one person, PAF, can then tar everybody with the same brush. And as for fighting the last war, I suggest you do a little bit of research, you may even find that our guys are getting shot at even as I type.... so who's 20 years behind the times now? also don't forget your rant in the hanger during smoko about ADF personal, I'm sure there are a few ex members who would be more than happy to take you outside for some "contact councelling", although to do that would take guts, something that you would know very little about.

Aplogies for the subject drift.
v900, I think what Sunfish is alluding to is the truism that any defence force, worldwide, prepares for the next war as though it was going to fight the last war again. Why? because they don't have a crystal ball and they can only go on what they know.
Cases in point: WW1 generals sending thousands of men to their deaths against the wire trying to break the trenchlines, holding onto the hope for a "breakthrough" and a return to manouevre warfare after the very successful Prussian defeat of the French in 1870.
The French building the Maginot Line to defend against the strategy and tactics seen by the invading Germans in WW1, only to have it outflanked by manouevre warfare in WW2.
The Americans using the tactics of massive firepower which worked so well in WW2 to fight an insurgency in Vietnam.
The defence forces as a whole can hardly be criticised for the "mistakes" of its leadership or its "failure" to adequately prepare. I don't think Sunfish is levelling such criticism. I'm sure Sunfish, like all of us, appreciates the sacrifice of our countrymen, friends and family serving in the ADF - even PAF.

[shotpeen]

Has anyone bothered to check the AAMP for the comming week. Not only have they scheduled extra A checks up there, theres also S1 overnight check happening as well. fed sec whats happening???. up there being LA

[Sunfish]

V900, actually I have served, and I was probably up to my neck in mud and leeches well before you were born. With certain notable exceptions (all ex RAAF Pilots), I'm not particularly impressed with the RAAF, but being of course Army, I guess you would expect that.

Two of the three worst managers I have ever had the misfortune to work for were ex-RAAF engineering officers who exhibited rigidity of personality and what's called "concrete thinking" (ie: An inability to think creatively) that I think matched a certain person posting here rather well.

I'm actually sorry for poor old P** because when he leaves the service he is in for a bit of a shock, especially if he has had 20 years of service coddling.

P.S. By the way, the whole American "warriors defending our freedoms" bull**** doesn't go down well in Australia, so I'd give that a miss if I were you.

[chanel1234]

Sunfish, what is it that you actually do, i noticed over 2500 posts, you are a real tosser, get a life.

As for the rest of you you are all lost , man i havent seen so much flutter and bullsh*t , your exec is allover the place ,

you guys are being docked 4 hours pay, by my calculations each time you all go out it is 250K , so it wont be long before you are in serious negative territory regardless of any pay increase. Not to worry your leader will be getting paid to run this great strategy.

It is obvious your executive hasnt got a clue about industrial strategy and negotiation and the first rules. I understand that the whole exec team is new to this, may i suggest it is very premature to pat the exec on the back, they havet got a clue, i maybe wrong but looks like you are all loosing, the overtime will start to bite not only the company but those who need it, once that happense the crack will appear and its all over.

Those that are happy with the exec performance, you need to have a cold shower, the reality will soon be evident, You Amateur unionists, you make me cry:{:{:{

[acslame]

On another note how are the delays looking?
Word around the ivory towers is that the LAME's
have resorted to sabotaging aircraft and the company
has proof that there were towels stuffed down the toilet
system ( I can't remember the flight #).
Sounds like QF bulls**t to me.
I thought it was a crook vacuum blower.

It never ceases to amaze the lies that management
are capable of

Maintain the Rage

[Ngineer]

Q: do SIT finish at 0100 or do they finish at 2400 this time of year? 5 or 4 hour stoppage for you guys?

Pretty sure from memory they finish at 0100. Their workload is sometimes printed on the back of Syd Base.

[sky rocket]

If the LAMES were sabotaging the vacuum toilets to upset GD I think you would find a herd of African elephants shoe horned into the bowl.:)

[Mech-prentice]

SIT finishes at 0100 year-round.

What's the rationale behind an 8-hour roster as a threat to QF? I know it'll increase time spent on handovers, but can't see any other disadvantage to the company. As far as I know, once you adopt an 8-hour-or-shorter roster the company can dictate the layout of that roster without negotiating with the employees. Sounds like you'd be giving them a lot of power for very little gain.

[The Colonel Lives]

I would assume that if qantas is run predominately on O/T, the current bans in place would put a significant financial burden on most engineers. That being the case then probably the 5% increase that is being disputed is dwindling down each day for all, until eventually the dispute will become just about saving face (for both ALAEA and QF). As an alternative. Qf could always apply and change procedures to align with JS and VB which probably would reduce the need for a % of engineers for Line Maintenance as argument for an equal level playing field on competition (including MSG3 requirements for new A/C types). Unfortunately like most workplaces, there tends to be 30% of the workforce that do most of the work for the other 70%. That 30% of LAMEs I feel are taking the brunt from a legacy pay (Level) system voted in by the membership 10 years ago by a selfish few who were either close to retiring or carried numerous licence types. These engineers have now seen their time out or remain on high pay scales with no real avenue for the younger generation coming through to take advantage of the higher levels. It might be time to sell the benefits and receive significant pay rises and align with the other Airlines current work procedures including an agreed % percentage of contracted workforce. I know that there are definetly hard working guys in minorities who pretty much carry the airline on a daily basis that deserve large pay increases (up to 20%), but it was the ALAEAs own membership (previous) that set the grounds for your current dispute (ie re - pay scale system) with QF taking a very agressive (and perceived immoral) advantage of your situation leaving the current membership with little avenue to negotiate a fair pay deal for the deserving few. As for alternative workforces, you are right to assume that there is little substance to replace what would be required to run the ops daily, but in some instances I would not under estimate how inefficient some areas of QF Engineering are. From my knowledge there used to be QF LAMEs (a minority)that used to work in KL on holidays and time off which wasn't well received by the locals and expats and maybe some of those guys might repay the favour, unfortunately. Both the ALAEA and QF are looking for an exit strategy and the membership suffer financially daily as a consequence. The stakes are high for both sides with QF risk of having to payout the onflow of pay rises for all unions in a declining market and the ALAEA potentially risking a large membership loss if there is a back down.

[kotoyebe]

scab watch said:
Another smart move by the ALAEA at a point where we are running out of options.
and blubak said:
Fedsec,
when are u expecting qf to get back with their latest costs and maybe even an answer for us?


These are exactly the chinks in the armour that di*kson is looking for. The aim of this whole exercise is to get the best EBA result possible. Please don't get impatient. It was always going to be a long, drawn out process.

As much as we would like change at the top, the main aim is to get the EBA through, not to highlight management failures. You can do that later.

I believe that di*kson has played his best shot. Boy, I could be wrong, and I hope I'm not. But I believe he would have used anything he had up his sleeve by now. His best chance at winning this, is to drag it out longer than you guys can.

There would be too much bad media, and too little back up in terms of alternative workforce, to lock you out.

I'm sure the exec has thought of as many scenarios as possible, and have plans to counter di*kson. Trust them.

[qfbadboy]

Any details out there about Tulla dockies being told at individual interviews to work 2 hours O/t (early start )Weds or run the risk of loosing 2 hours pay.
Would this constitute bullying ?
New notice posted covering member lockout and Alaea response.
QF do seem to be focusing more on the man than the ball as things progress.

[The Black Panther]

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/comments/0,23836,23874287-3122,00.html

RISING fuel costs and tight credit conditions pose a new dilemma for Qantas directors, who are in New York for a crucial board meeting. Perhpas if the board met locally instead of in New York, it might help to curb costs. Also if they did away with the over the top rewards the management recieve and also the staff recieve it would go a long way towards cutting costs. Why are staff still recieving free flight or paying just 10 percent of the cost for flights when they have shareholders. Why are the staff still being given free parcels of shares every year. yes give them a discount, but dont just give it all away.
Posted by: rob of brisbane 4:34pm today
Comment 1 of 2

and then...
Sure a discount but only if Qantas can't sell it. I'd be asking questions at the next AGM why the executive members have received 15-30% pay rises every year for 8 years while staff are spoon fed 3%. Real wages for Qantas staff have gone backwards thats why the Qantas engineers are currently taking industrial action. Qantas would be in the gutter if the APA takeover was successful last year. The share price is pathetic at $3.40 odd, it was this price 7 years. I think it time the shares asked management to focus on customers and employees then profits will flow to shareholders not the contrary as this management seems to think works. Posted by: Brian Hayweather 5:35pm today
Comment 2 of 2
You are right PAF. Plenty of problems on GD dinner plate. We made be down the list as far as equity goes but we are not going away. Just keep doin' our job day in day out. No dramas. "Management has contributed more to Qantas then bloody unions" It's time they earnt their keep. The elephant in the corner can only be ignored for so long.

[The Black Panther]

Qantas cost cuts nothing to do with oil price: union


At close of business, Qantas shares had fallen 3 per cent on the sharemarket to $3.22.
Meanwhile, Virgin Blue was up 0.9 per cent to 58 cents.
I think the punters are waking up to the Qantas style of management.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/06/17/2277757.htm?section=justin

[The Black Panther]

PAF Could not delete your posts so we can go back and show how inept you are at worthy debate.

Lets keep this one.

PAF said:
It will be interesting when QF turn the screws and dock everyones wages.

[hadagutfull]

Im sick of these games.. go for the fu:mad:ing companys throat

[Redstone]

Puss-A-Frodo, it seems to me that like your good self "hadagutfull" is what is usually refered to as a "Troll".

We now have Trolls fishing for Trolls :*

[Ngineer]

It seems that a manager, originally from the SDT area but has been visiting the SIT very frequently of late, has been telling the guys there that this will all be over soon - maybe by the start of July! Apparently he stated that he did'nt expect this union action to last very long (when we first started), as he was asked to sign some leave forms. It appears that this PIA is costing QF a lot more than anticipated and the managers are becoming very anxious, wanting to bring it to a stop.
Tell us something we didnt know! Is the cat out of the bag?

[HotDog]

I'm not convinced that the users on this thread of the ever popular catchphrase "Troll", actually know what it really means. Apart from it's origin in Norse mythology of a tribe of giants, in slang terms Troll (Internet), is a person who is deliberately inflammatory on the Internet in order to provoke a vehement response from other users. Just because someone doesn't agree with your views doesn't necessarily mean that he is inflammatory. I think you can be thankful that this thread has not hit the press as it would do a lot of harm to your cause.:sad:

[Redstone]

I think you can be thankful that this thread has not hit the press as it would do a lot of harm to your cause.

Harm? How do you figure? A bunch of ghost writers most of which in all reality have no connection to Qantas let alone the Engineering fraternity venting and baiting? If the press got hold of this thread they would scratch their collective heads, bin it and proceed to the nearest liquid lunch :ok:

[chanel1234]

you tellem ngineer...yep the qantas managers will fold, or perhaps they couldnt give a tos , i mean they are not getting docked,

Get real,

can i ask how many names fall in the a-k or l - z or whatever ,how many guys will get docked, and how many will not, will the WA SA and NTH QLD members chip in with 4 hours of wages that can be shared equally and when will the next lot be due, whoever thought of this idiot strategy is either dumb as dog sh*t or wants to create angst amongst members.

But the Qantas Managers are getting nervous, so no need to worry, can you please all get real or accept the offer, you are your own enemies, the managers are getting paid and you are dealing with a company with a bottomless pit, yet you punce around like fairies thinking up idiot ideas that will have no effect other than cause peop;le to question why am i getting docked this and not my pal over there who will stand to gain.

looks like a Bunch of egomaniacs running this union , they are there for a business outcome, looks like they have forgotten and are more intersted in being patted on the back and coming up with fanciful ideas, it really is simple you either go for broke and hope you win or you will loose with these half measures and half baked strike by alphabet strategies.

This is something not even the teachers union would consider

[YOSHI]

To The Colonel Lives,

The current pay scheme at QE was offered to the LAMEs by management in an effort to keep LAMEs in the company. It is, therefore, their monster and the only way to keep the younger LAMEs, and AMEs, in the company is to improve the base pay on offer. Introducing a new scheme like those used by JS & VB would increase the base rate for the younger LAMEs, and when the Union suggested this to the management negotiating team last year, their response to that was one of surprise, followed by an immediate dismissal of the idea!!!

To The Black Panther,

We all know that th only reason that QF still run the Staff Travel scheme is that it MAKES MONEY for the company, otherwise they would have dropped it years ago! And as for FREE FLIGHTS, well we all know that there is no such thing in QF.

To the Fed Sec and the Exec,

Love your work! Keep it up, we're behind you all the way!

Like the company says ......'Take 5'%.....

[wanty]

On another note how are the delays looking?
Word around the ivory towers is that the LAME's
have resorted to sabotaging aircraft and the company
has proof that there were towels stuffed down the toilet
system ( I can't remember the flight #).
Sounds like QF bulls**t to me.
I thought it was a crook vacuum blower.

It never ceases to amaze the lies that management
are capable of

Maintain the Rage


Maybe they should do a DNA swab of the towels and cross check it against swabs from all current employed LAMES !!!

Yeah right,where do I line up to take my swab ???

The only DNA sample they will get from me comes out my rear end.

What a bunch of tossers this lot are. Talk about reaching.:{:{:{

[Nepotisim]

Why would any LAME in their right mind deliberately block a dunny knowing full well he or another LAME will have to unblock it? It is a rather unpleasant job that I for one wouldn't wish on anyone.:yuk:

As said previously I believe it was a blower motor.

[YOSHI]

wanty,

Now come on, you can't expect MH or DC to take responsibility for their ineptitude, can you?

Like the company says ......'Take 5'%.....

[woollcott]

Yes, some (but not all) Melb HM LAMES were docked for declining overtime today.
The thing that stuck out in my mind was managment could not identify any personnel on their list by sight, and had to send the foreman around to advise the various people that they were required to attend an interview to explain why they declined working back /starting early.

It goes a long way to explain the mindset of Engineering management, that they are so disengaged from their workers, that they cannot put a name to any of the faces in their own department.

Insert catchy punchline here.

[Dockie]

things warm up
Any details out there about Tulla dockies being told at individual interviews to work 2 hours O/t (early start )Weds or run the risk of loosing 2 hours pay.
Would this constitute bullying ?
New notice posted covering member lockout and Alaea response.
QF do seem to be focusing more on the man than the ball as things progress.

I am one of the Tulla Dockies that was frog marched upstairs and asked to do O/T from 2300 to 0100 for "Operational reasons" PD and someone from HR was there. PD selected only a dozen or so guys who do overtime to ask the question. I believe it to be discrimination because everyone who doesn't do O/T wasn't asked and yes we were told that we would be docked 2 hours pay. I've been with the company 27 years and the current management has successfully drained every bit of goodwill out of me. I have no respect for and don't trust the current "management". Everytime they speak I assume that they are lying. I've had my say and I feel a lot better now.:)

[Sunfish]

Just for the record, please don't slag off at the QF Board for going to New York.

The very old (19th century) business rule for meeting venues is that you always "go where the money is".

If the QF Board wants money to finance it's fleet renewal, then it must go to New York and ask for it, not the other way around.


My reading of the current state of play is that there are many more rounds to go. It appears at the moment that QF are probing for weak spots, weak people, over reactions, etc., and also giving you "the silent treatment", or perhaps they are just too busy.

There will be more threats and provocations to come.

Keep up your good work and do exactly what your Fed. Sec. says.

[capt.cynical]

:) Please bring this to the attention of your management engineers.:yuk: We would hate to loose such talent. :eek:
Keep up the good fight Gents :D but please KEEP it SAFE!! :ok:


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=331524 :(

[EBS]

Current Update QF2 20mins into flight air turn back, aircraft dumped 77 tonnes.

[Red Baron]

Dockie


I am one of the Tulla Dockies that was frog marched upstairs and asked to do O/T from 2300 to 0100 for "Operational reasons" PD and someone from HR was there. PD selected only a dozen or so guys who do overtime to ask the question. I believe it to be discrimination because everyone who doesn't do O/T wasn't asked and yes we were told that we would be docked 2 hours pay. I've been with the company 27 years and the current management has successfully drained every bit of goodwill out of me. I have no respect for and don't trust the current "management". Everytime they speak I assume that they are lying. I've had my say and I feel a lot better now.:)


Dockie, sounds like a time many years ago when the AME's were dragged into the office and asked the same question during one of their EBA disputes! Mistake they made was that they weren't available, they have since learn't a lesson for next time! Was Dumb Bell sweating like a pig?

In relation to a 'blocked toilet', well if that's all that has happened so far then bugger me! Lets not forget the story of one of your 747's landing in LA with a full row of 'low oil quantity' lights fully illuminated across all four engines! :ooh:

I wonder if Dick Smith would like to hear some of these stories, co's CASA sure the hell don't want to! What was it again they said:

"Any investigation into Qantas could be detrimental to their brand name"

Say's it all doesn't fella's! :eek:

[The cougar]

Hey sunfish have you heard about globalisation, obvously not.
Most merchant banks have branches here and most of those are in the old Qantas building in Sydney. The reason Dicko and the board have gone to NY is to ensure that the mum and dad investors and the 30,000 peaved employees who are also shareholders don't hijack the AGM and let these idiots have it. They have run scared which!

[Sunfish]

Cougar, when you are asking for billions, like the QF Board is, you go to head office...in New York. My guess is also that Boeing and Airbus will be part of these discussions as well.

[Boardman]

Sunfish is right.
QF need to go talk to the people/persons who make the decision regarding that amount of money, not the Manager of the Local Branch. They have to go to Headoffice. It's a no brainer, sell the idea to the person who counts.

There is (or was) an investigation into the dunny blockage thing. It is very suspect, but the Engineers can be accounted for. Less said on the subject is better.

Which brings me to a very important comment.
It is fine to use this forum to discuss matters, vent your opinion, etc.
As it has already been said here by QF and outside posters, be very careful what you type into this forum. It can be dangerous and very desructuctive.

I have read some dumb stuff! Why do you think they use coded messages during war! Broadcasting potential plans over the Internet is just stupid.
Why not just call Geoff up and tell him in person what we are thinking to do.
If you have an idea email it or call our Fed Exec in person. Doing it publically is asking to fail. Management do read this guys! (Hi fellas, havinmg a stressfull day I hope).

Think before you post!!!!!!!!

SP keep it up son! Guys get behind him, and don't break ranks.

[Ngineer]

Cougar, when you are asking for billions, like the QF Board is, you go to head office...in New York. My guess is also that Boeing and Airbus will be part of these discussions as well.

Maybe while they're asking, they can get a couple of extra mill to pay us our 2%.

[kotoyebe]

Don't worry, I'm not responding to him. But what's with his modus operandi?

He gets on here in the evenings, then goes hell for leather (trying) to stir the sh*t up with everyone, then by the morning, he has deleted all his posts.

Is he not man enough, or have enough conviction in his ideas to keep them here? Or is he upto something else?

Thankfully, he is mostly being ignored.

[Annulus Filler]

Hey Dockie, hang in there. I think we all feel the same about the current management. Stay strong and support you buddies. We need people like you with your experience.

[Millet Fanger]

For 21 months the ALAEA has been trying to negotiate in good faith. Qantas has just stonewalled us. 12 months ago, in a meeting with Cox, it was raised that lack of renumeration and training was resulting in staff leaving in record numbers for Qantas Engineering. "Are you aware of the long term ramifications?" was a question he choose not to answer. Nothing since has been done to rectify the situation, except for increasing the O/T.

Now, as part of our legal bargaining rights, O/T levels have reduced significantly. What does our esteemed management do? Starts getting A-Checks done in LAX. The problem is that Qantas is only getting the bare minimum done to stay legal. The aircraft aren't being maintained properly. The aircraft that returned back to Syd had over 50 defects (hold items) still outstanding.

This is part of the reason why QF2 has had 15 hour plus delays out of London the past 2 days (today's being an air turn-back), QF1 had an 16 hour delay on Monday, QF107 had a "return to gate" yesterday with an associated 4 hour delay. Does Qantas Engineering Management get it? The state of health of the Qantas fleet is declining rapidly. What's their response? Let's take more engineers away from maintaining the aircraft and turn them into managers. Let's see, approx. 14 engineers - average 25 years experience each - gone.

Why are they destroying Qantas's Safety / Reliability record? Why do they not care?

[K9P]

Millet Fanger I don't think that they get it.
It's way out of their ball park
These bunch of pukes just have no comprehension of the big picture.

[The cougar]

Sunfish and Boardman,
Qantas has 2 billion dollars in the bank, which was one of the main things Maquarie bank wanted to get its hands on. The Qantas accounts department flies over to Airbus or Boeing, gets on board the new plane, flies over international waters to avoid tax, hands a cheque over, the purchase papers are signed and the rego papers are handed back. Then just before the ink is dry a leasing company buys the aircraft off Qantas, draws up the lease agreemeny and QF signs the lease papers. QF has lost $300,000,000 for all of 5 minutes. Then in 1 months time they fly back over and do it again. Qantas is not in NY to borrow $20,000,000,000 no one has it except the arabs and Qf could not afford the payments. They are in NY to avoid a nasty reception from the average shareholder who wishes to vent his anger at;
1. Selling Qantas when it wasn't theirs to sell so the board and executives could pocket huge amounts of money.
2. The freight scam which has the potential to cost Qf hundreds of millions when domestic companies are ready to sue.
3. Dixon and Jacksons smug attitude during media interviews.
4. The collapse in the share price.
5. The constantly late and cancelled flights, and piss poor service because Qf doesn't want to look after its staff.
Dont be fooled, the AGM shoud be here in AUS!

[kotoyebe]

Dont be fooled, the AGM shoud be here in AUS!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is just a BOARD meeting in NYC, not the AGM. The AGM will be held later in the year here in AUS.

But I agree with your sentiments......

[The cougar]

I stand corrected the Agm is later this year!

[cabinhostie]

Very important to do.

I heard a disturbing thing yesterday about some seniors who won't play fair.:{

Who are these people really helping? very clearly just themselves.:suspect:

C'mon guys, as I said before, HARD AND FAST. You are all worth it.:ok:

[Dr Itzfukt]

Nice one cougar :oh::oh::oh::oh:

[Collando]

http://www.skynews.com.au/business/article.aspx?id=242119

Qantas price fixing
Updated: 08:25, Wednesday June 18, 2008
Qantas is due to settle with European and Australian regulators over accusations of illegal price fixing as part of an international air freight cartel.
The Financial Review reports that the airline is in settlement talks with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, with an expectation the final figure will run into the tens of millions of dollars.
The European regulator is also set to launch action against 26 airlines involved in the cartel.
Qantas and several other airlines have indicated they will admit liability to the European Commission.
Last year Qantas also pleaded guilty to the US Department of Justice and paid a US$61 million fine.


Hmmmmm
Sorry no more than 3% we need you all to pay for our fine!!!!!!!!!! (management bonuses excluded)

[rmm]

Don't forget the upcoming class action either.

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,22840710-462,00.html

Melbourne class-action specialist Maurice Blackburn estimates potential damages at $200 million for Qantas customers who will claim they have been ripped off by the airline.

[off-sked]

CabinHostie,

Don't let this thread worry you.

On the floor, the LAME's are totally united and getting stronger each day. Whilst most (if not all) of us want to see the end of this thing, I've not seen even the slightest hint of a backdown. The bullying tactics are having little effect as members are pitching in to compensate those who are being targeted and docked pay for the cause.

Most seem confident in the fact that the Board are legally responsible for profit and loss, and there is only so much loss that can be sustained before the big investors will be asking some very hard questions of the board. It is only a matter of time before it will become obvious to all that this fight is costing more than the wage claim would have.

The fact remains that a Qf LAME at the bottom of the LAME pay scale earns less than a Qf AME (ie: not yet licensed) at the top of the his or her respective pay scale. In addition to that, it would take years and a good few licenses for a Qf LAME to be in any danger of out earning a jet* or VB LAME.

This campaign is not an ''Opportunistic grab for cash''', it's justified. Management ought to be panicking at the results of a campaign that has so far been little more than overtime bans. Its time they sort this EBA out and get started in fixing what was once a world leading operation.

[EWANQF]

Repeat after me.

"One Hold Item per turnaround,per engineer,per flight attendant,per pilot per day!"


Lets all get together and make our dreams come true for 3000 hold items across the QF fleet by the end of June.:ok:

[Big M]

Beware, turncoats in your midst. (Syd)


Inspections being carried out at night, in the rain, with the new ops managers standing over you. If you stop for a minute to think, claims are made that you are going slow.


As I can't imagine one of them standing over even a 3 year old, I can only take it that you're talking of Cranky.

Well, you can tell Cranky where he can go and stick his supposed "Go Slow". Follow the PPM, take yourself to a computer and read/print out all the procedures. Just let him try and tell you otherwise. If he thinks he knows a better way to do it, then he can pull on the over-alls and do it himself. I guess all those years of being under the desk have paid off for him. He was once quoted as saying he'd sell his Grandmother to get a DE's job. I guess she must've died before he could get her on the market to secure one of those spots. As he's just been parachuted into one of the new desperately needed managers roles, one can only guess what it is that he's sold to get this gig. I guess credit to him for persistence is due, he's been eating all those fish-eyes for years, he even dumped tens of thousands of dollars into a "motor-launch' when it was thought that to be a part of the boat club, was the way to stardom. :=

Be aware also boys of new managers whom creep around. Especially the blatant self serving one, who after being despised on the floor with the foot soldiers, rode the highway to dizzy heights and now to eventual 'management' on the back of shafting one of his own co-workers. Those who know will remember 'HF antennae-gate'. Proof right there on that night that he too would sell out any one, at any cost, to show that he was willing to be 'moulded' by management hands - look how he's turned out! Disgraceful. :yuk:

I wonder how the 'doyen' of spare engine's is going? I guess he 's sharpening his pen! Of course he'd be one of GD's poster boys for wage restraint. He'd be one of those 'average' LAME's earning 180K (and dumb enough to gloat about it) The only leech who can write his own roster - no nightshift, all weekend work (high penalty rates) do whatever you like. Of course 'roster' yourself on during the week on 'days off' for 'training' duties which will attract 'double' dollars. All this with the blessing of F Controller. All this while screwing his own team of Lames and transfering their duties to lesser paid ames from eng workshops. Brilliant management concepts at play there. :D

Yes, there are more examples but remember, they are the few and we are the many - patience, the plan is ticking over nicely, use M's ppm, CASA reg's and the maint manual. Don't let any talk of guilt sway our cause. It has nothing to do with us. If pax are delayed, it has nothing to do with us - let management front the pax and explain why it is they don't employ enough people, don't invest in training, don't purchase spares(or even worse - sell-off the ones that we did have), etc, etc, etc, you all know the reasons.

None of this is our doing, even now we are still working as hard as possible - hey, it's in our blood and impossible to change what we do. The only reason the fleet hasn't ground to a halt since the PIA started is of our continued goodwill and effort, it will be management's shortfalls that eventually start the groundings, and once they start - it will be one after the other - lest of course management approve the illegal operation of aircraft beyond maintenance intervals/defect rectification periods.

Stay safe out there, be patient, take 5, work safe and remember

"TO UNDERTAKE, SUPERVISE AND CERTIFY FOR THE SAFETY OF ALL WHO FLY"

[division1]

Quote:
Inspections being carried out at night, in the rain, with the new ops managers standing over you.
If you stop for a minute to think, claims are made that you are going slow.


I've finally found a use for this word
assclown

Urban Dictionary: assclown (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=assclown)
A person who is laughable and detestable at the same time.
Usually pretends to be a know-it-all,often
enhancing their stories,knowledge,
experience,and every thing in between
with pure bull****.

[Sogi]

Does anyone know but i'm curious to know whether or not these new ops managers positions were advertised? When were the interviews held for them?

I guess these positions didn't have to go through the usuall process with HR like every other person in QF has to go through to get a job or a new position? These new managers must have been walk up starters? :oh:

Can you shed some light on this MH?

[Anulus Filler]

Sogi

Does anyone know but i'm curious to know whether or not these new ops managers positions were advertised? When were the interviews held for them?

I guess these positions didn't have to go through the usuall process with HR like every other person in QF has to go through to get a job or a new position? These new managers must have been walk up starters?

Can you shed some light on this MH?

I heard there was a white notice put out for all these postions. My source said they were put on a notice board attached under each manager's desk. Apparently only a few people ever saw them.

Anyway, the place already has too many engineers... Why not create a few more bullsh!t postions. Before long we will all be managers...Then all the checks can go overseas because there are no engineers left to fix a/c.

What a f:mad:ing circus. :sad:

[Rotor n Wings]

Heard that a 747 had an engine change down Avalon way? is this a tactic?

[cabinhostie]

Thanks Off-Sked
I hope your right about solidarity.

I will be doing my bit to help the cause, got any good suggestions?;)

[royson]

The latest QF eba statement talks up the requirement to include the Heavy Maintenance flexibilities again, after they were sent to the bottom of the ocean in a vote by H/M staff ages ago. These so called flexibilities are unfair ,unjust , uncalled for and probably worth about 20% in any pay rise. If GD thinks he can only offer 3% or even 5% when we wear him down to included these outrageous claims he had better think again. He can threaten us all he likes but hell will freeze over before we accept this nonsense to be includued in an EBA document .

[Ngineer]

Those relying on O/T know that if this dipute ends, O/T will be the next to go and then they will be totally up the creek. You cannot rely on O/T forever, only a decent and fair basic wage.

And for a bit of comic relief, the management are holding off on the Syd precinct and performance monitoring until the EBA is sorted out. Why? Because they do not want to upset anyone with it.:rolleyes:

[opalops]

Suggest all Lames carry a voise recorder to tape any conversations between yourselves and management just in case things come back and bite you

[dunny68]

I have heard a rumor that maybe somebody can confirm;
I heard that one of the managers (running Melb/AVV) has a cross report in against him for turning a 767 around and using the gauges to confirm oils instead of physically checking them, this means a MEDA investigation. My question is: How do managers stay current when they have not been on the tools or keep current with read and signs or Online training etc, not to mention renew of CASA license(s)???http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons/mpangel.gif
Maybe the ALAEA better look a bit closer at this.....http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/infopop/icons/icon7.gif

[Dockie]

QANTAS Management Course syllabus.

Section 1: How to get everybody off side and still believe that you are doing a great job.

Section 2: How to lower morale by continually threatening your staff.

Section 3: How to cut costs to the detriment of the business but who cares - your bonus is still intact.

Section 4: Recipes you can use for your BBQ/party when you manage to successfully stitch up your staff.

Section 5: Resumes to create after you have managed to completely wreck your section of the business before you move on to your next disaster.

[The cougar]

Seems that the head of spare engines has gronks of his own. Our southern brothers informed me that 2 of his cronies went to Avalon for boro's. Best we look up partsmart and see who they were! Anyone have any news on who is doing the Noumea run?

[BN APP 125.6]

... but you have my total support in attempting to fix the impasse that the management of QF have brought upon themselves.

And as much as myself and fellow travellers will probably spend some extra hours enjoying the splendid selection of treats at the Qantas Club :yuk: , there will be plenty of us who are prepared to share a bit of pain to get the message through to the thick skulls of your overpaid underperforming management - that they are destroying their brand. And we want it fixed.

BN APP 125.6
A QF Customer (and ex- Shareholder... thank goodness)

[EWANQF]

Isn't there somebody STRANGE in Noumea?:=

[Bolty McBolt]

To those that may be wavering...Some good news for the cause.

With the amount of work backed up currently, the Planning Department are running out of people to sort and allocate the work needed or required.
Every hold item generates another EW card which needs to be allocated to a work package which may or may not need deferring.

The crap system is starting to buckle under it's own weight.
The bureaucracy that has been added to the system is helping our good cause.
Secondly, There is much anecdotal evidence that the "City" flyer up and down the east coast is a shambles. With the usual P.A. apologies blaming weather in certain cities for canxed flights only to be met with retorts from PAX saying Bull$hit......

My apologies to the check-in, planners and allocations department for the mess you have to wade through daily.

Maintain the rage for as the Rolling Stones would say.
"Tiiiime, is on my side"

Listening devices...:yuk: When the manager is addressing you. Tell him that this conversation is being recorded.
Your obligation is met ! :ok:

[sickofqf]

Seems that the head of spare engines has gronks of his own. Our southern brothers informed me that 2 of his cronies went to Avalon for boro's. Best we look up partsmart and see who they were! Anyone have any news on who is doing the Noumea run?

Before you get too worked up remember there are AMEs in that section as well and there are AMEs here in base that have worked OT recently as they are entitled. We might not like it but it happens. Get ALL the facts before you start to try and taint people by rumour. :=

If however it WAS LAMEs who went......name and shame is the game.:yuk:

[Short_Circuit]

Sounds like a good time to upgrade your mobile phones with one that
has voice recording. Most these days will record 30 plus minutes.:ok:

[FMU]

Sogi, the ops managers positions were advertised on the new “Taleo” recruitment site. There is a link to this on the intranet “Services” page. And yes they did go through the “usual” HR process. Read into that whatever you like!!

[hi-speed tape]

Just made my $ donation to "the cause". Glad to see LAME's searching out the guy's doing the collecting. Just another sign that everyone is united and ready to stand by their mates ! great effort ..........FOG !
PS: I like big tit's too

[blackhander]

So according to DH they're carrying out a 'bugger campaign'. I thought they'd been sticking it up our a:mad:ses for years

[acslame]

I just saw the "leaked " email between MH and DH.
Getting docked or stood down is one thing,
but getting Buggered is something else
all together!!!!!!
I had heard they called him the "Big Dick"
but I never in my wildest dreams thought
it was due to a "Buggery campaign" !!!
Those poor Perth boys!!!!!
I am so glad that there isn't a buggery
campaign going on in my port!!
Surely this must constitute sexual harassment?
On the harassment issue, Is M calling people people sc*bs?
Sure looks like it in his email to DH.
I wonder if M has done his harassment training?

[sickofqf]

the latest release just re-enforces my question of several days ago.

When is the association going to take one of these bullying halfwits personally to task.

SP, is it nearly time to start 'playing the man' and start driving our own divide and conquer campaign.........

.......oh, and I was wondering why my derriere had been sore lately.......

[Ngineer]

It's good to see the truth behind the lies. What "amazing peolple" our management are. Off to war we go.......

[sickofqf]

crikey mendaero,

imagine what it would be like if we DID go slow !!!

if KB keeps saying that's what we're doing, perhaps soon we WILL !!!

[chanel1234]

Been in Aus for 2 weeks

Have since realised that i cannot wait for you arsoles to go out on strike full time and get sacked, what a bunch of overpaid wankers

Its all over the paper and news, given the fuel crisis you have f all chance

but what f.cks me the most is the attitude of you wan.kers on this site

what a bunch of unorganised tossers

[stiffnut]

When the ops managers are standing behind you, especially cranky franky just smile and ask him what do you think i should do, he hasn't a clue, as when he was on the floor he was a pretty ordinary engineer who would throw a tantrum when he couldn't manage to fix anything, and as an actor and leader he was pretty hopeless, if i remember correctly on the 767 course he was nicknamed refill as all his results were 75%, not a great result for one of our superheroes, but there again he has always said he would do what it takes to get to the top no matter how many a%^es he has to lick. Stay true guys we just have to keep going as eventually somebody who is investing lots of dollars in the company will say to gd enough is enough and hopefully he will be shafted the same way he is shafting us.

[Long Bay Mauler]

http://www.royandhg.com/clubbuggery/bughouse.jpg (http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-5757)

[PitPin]

Brown do you really think we are going to take your bait !I know how hard I work and am very comfortable with it .I think you need to have a look at some of your own people who have not exactly STARRED over the last few years.

[stiffnut]

After my last post i was thinking what have all the dickheads that have crossed over to the dark side got in common, then i realised that 99% of them were either lazy or pretty dumb at doing the job they were originally employed to do ie cy ms ap ng am kg etc. etc.

[600ft-lb]

Well, being a manager, you can't promote competent people who have a clue otherwise they might take your job one day... Think of it like that.

It's called maintaining your empire.

[Dr Itzfukt]

What an abortion of a place QF Engineering has turned out to be. 10 years ago I would not for the life of me have thought anything like this could happen.

Congratulations current management for ******* up a relatively simple task of managing people. (you would be surprised as to what happy employees will do for a good company.)

What you retards have managed to do in the last 12 months should be jailable as an offence but you scumbags keep on getting away with it. Especially that king retard at the top who thinks that by selling off the company and lining his left pocket with gold would actually give him some credibility. What a failure that was and you used that other useless cow as a scapegoat.

I'm almost ashamed to tell people where I work now. Keep up the pressure and screw these ******** to the wall and watch them rot like they deserve.

Bring on redundancy and put us all out of our misery. (but not before 5 x 5 x 5.) Current management you have ruined a perfectly good company that in my view is dead forever. Well done, I hope you have a great sleep tonight.

**** you!

That is all.

[acslame]

Well said Doc

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Just a quick one guys. I spent the arvo in court again with Qantas seeking s.496 orders against the ALAEA for planning illegal industrial action in the form of overtime bans in Melbourne Heavy (shift extensions).

Pleased to report that Qantas were not successful.

[Hardworker]

Well in all truth and reality, I cant see the current Engineering management staying, with all the campaigns and lies they keep advising us LAME's I honestly cant see how anyone in Line Maintenance and Base Maintenance all all ports can trust, believe anything said from Cox down to their local managers anymore....all is lost on the path of a employee and management and I dont think it will every be the same...It is a very sad thing having worked in many other companies that realise that happy employees will go that extra mile for good management...it is a sad state of affairs, a Company that did have an "Excellence in Engineering" is now gone...probably forever!

[Ngineer]

Dr, thats absolutely golden and smack on the money mate.:D

[REALITY]

Well done Murray & Dick :D:D

You have just proven to all those committed people you supposedly manage that you have nothing but contempt and hatred for them.

It is with nothing but disgust that I read your email, however I wonder why I am suprised.

The mel acs manager, TL, is also a thug, albeit a retarded one. I just thank the almighty one that they have no-one managing qf engineering with any real managing ability.

Now we can all see the frustration that our executive must have to deal with 'negotiating' (for want of a more appropriate word!) with these incompetent thugs they call managers.

[acslame]

It really just boils down to truth doesn't it.
I have been lied to so many times that management
could slip in a true statement and I would not
be able to tell.

[not4thefainthearted]

As an outsider looking in and reading a lot of your posts, it seems that this dispute is not so much about money but about getting square with a management that can't relate to its employees without a rule book in one hand and a big stick in the other. Thank John Howard for bringing back pre conciliation/arbitration days. Is your federal secretary, the small union representative on the ACTU , bringing this to the governments attention.
Where's Julia Gilliard at the moment. I would think that the Labor party would be all over this dispute saying why this country needs a return to a proper Industrial system not one stuck in the 19th century.
Stick to it fella's this is about restoring a fair balance of power in the work place.

[wanty]

Just a quick one guys. I spent the arvo in court again with Qantas seeking s.496 orders against the ALAEA for planning illegal industrial action in the form of overtime bans in Melbourne Heavy (shift extensions).

Pleased to report that Qantas were not successful.


Well done again to all the exec.:ok:

What right of appeal do they have on that front sp ???

It would seem of late that certain "Silly Dick " managers are really messing

up thier own game plan, BUGGER.... LOL :=:=:=

:D:D:D

[Anulus Filler]

KG.....Wake up to yourself son!

Fair enough that all LAMES in Perth and the rest of Australia know your a sc@b.

BUT IT'S PRICELESS WHEN YOUR OWN MANAGER ALSO KNOWS YOU'RE ONE :{:{


BUGGER:ouch:

[wanty]

on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % THANKS on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % BIG %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % DICK%Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %
Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 % Roll on 5 %

BUGGER THAT FOG IS BACK AGAIN WITH A VENGENCE :ok:

[acslame]

Kind of make you feel like you were being used
wouldn't it

[numbskull]

Whats the buggery story all about for those of us who are only able to follow this circus via pprune??

[wanty]

Kind of make you feel like you were being used
wouldn't it

More like a lap dog I reckon. Wonder whether big dick can roll over too. lol

[Mr Chairman]

Well done the ALAEA Fed Sec and all the united Lame's around the country. This has being a long and difficult EBA for all but the members are united as never before. The recent notices are well recieved by the troops on the ground. Keep up the good work, and don't forget to work safely and follow procedures at all times.

Mr Chairman

[FCMC]

ALAEA Fed Sec Just a quick one guys. I spent the arvo in court again with Qantas seeking s.496 orders against the ALAEA for planning illegal industrial action in the form of overtime bans in Melbourne Heavy (shift extensions).

Pleased to report that Qantas were not successful. SP you are truly truly brilliant. We have so much to owe to you. No matter which way this go's you/we have given this our best shot and we will all go until the very end. :D
QF management lack experience in this type of Smart battle and struggle with such an intelligent Association as ours. Personally I feel you have them licked but where they lack intelligence they have resources and $$$$. However everyday I see guys sticking together more than ever and ultimately we will prevail.
Keep up the incredible work BEXLEY.

Now where's Insider Trader or is he too busy working out where he's staying next week!

[wanty]

New QF policy just released in private qf notes.

"Though shalt not :mad: up again" , till the next time. lol:ok:

[up2us]

I hope everyone is letting Kevin Brown know how hard we are working. I wonder if he is bombarded with the truth he may rethink if has been getting told the truth by M.H and D.C etc..

[Flugbegleiter]

As an outsider looking in and reading a lot of your posts, it seems that this dispute is not so much about money but about getting square with a management that can't relate to its employees without a rule book in one hand and a big stick in the other. Thank John Howard for bringing back pre conciliation/arbitration days. Is your federal secretary, the small union representative on the ACTU , bringing this to the governments attention.
Where's Julia Gilliard at the moment. I would think that the Labor party would be all over this dispute saying why this country needs a return to a proper Industrial system not one stuck in the 19th century.
Stick to it fella's this is about restoring a fair balance of power in the work place.
Spot on, not4thefainthearted. Just reading over the last few pages (100?) it is obvious that the 5% is really a minor issue. This dispute has happened because the staff have lost faith in the management. It is almost a mutiny. And fair enough, too!

But that leaves me questioning the following statement in the Bloomberg article (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=a.1x49nFRqYY&refer=australia) posted earlier, quoting SP:

``It's about the money,'' Purvinas said. ``We are almost in agreement about work conditions but Qantas said they won't negotiate while we have action planned.''

It's not really just "about the money" now, is it? That is maybe something symbolic, but if you guys were all really happy and being treated well, with respect, as adults, then maybe the 2% difference wouldn't matter so much.

I still wonder what will happen if you get the 5%, but nothing else changes: Management stays the same, procedures remain the same, etc, etc. There really needs to be a total change of management to fix this problem. I sincerely hope that occurs.

[wanty]

Board will revolt when QF shares touch $3.00
My prediction only.

I heard they are bringing T**mey in to run the show.Fair enough he killed Ansett quickly,but it is better than one nail at a time.

[1me]

This whole scenario just gets better doesn't it? I don't understand why they hate us so much. It's not like we go out at the drop of a hat... rather we have bent over backwards for a company who thinks that we are the most overpaid scum of the earth.

10 years ago I could have easily seen myself retiring at this company. I would have gone more than the extra mile to help out.. But how things have changed! I can just about guarantee I will not be retiring at Qantas. I can also just about guarantee that the days of me going the extra mile to help the company out have just about faded into obscurity.

This once proud airline is all but bereft of integrity. The amount of expertise and experience that they have let walk (or more correctly; pushed) out the door is almost criminal. And yet they ride a reputation for safety that we, and our forebears, have created; all the while undermining the very foundation that they stand on.

I think it's great that we are finally doing something constructive. And while I don't always understand the reasoning for suggested action, I do trust the leadership of this executive and they have my full support. I am also glad to see that us LAME's are sticking together and not buckling under pressure from those who seek to devalue and belittle us.

I wonder how many phone calls KB has received this evening?

[Millet Fanger]

Do you mean the Board is going to revolt tomorrow? The way the share price is falling, that's when it will be.

Can't wait!

[wanty]

Purely and simply they hate us for this reason and this reason only.


We will not be kicked in the teeth or asked to bend over, look back and smile any longer.They see our actions as a threat NOT to shareholder interests,but as a THREAT to the bonuses they won't recieve, if spoils are shared with the people who helped create them, we the employees.

[acslame]

Can someone post the "leaked email " for numbskull and all to see?

Next time a QF manager tells a lie to the public lets give 72hrs notice to the
company and name the manager and the statement as the reason why!!

Go slow? 4HRS for you KB.
130k a year ? 4HRS for you GD
Bugger campaign? well no 4HRS for you DH, that was actually the truth!

The turnstiles would be smoking the way management lie!
The ALAEA would need to notify when we were at work!

[wanty]

Do you mean the Board is going to revolt tomorrow? The way the share price is falling, that's when it will be.

Can't wait!


Look at QF sh... pr... over a fairly long period and you will see it hasn't been this low for a long time,call it support level. This breaks and all sorts of bells and whistles will blow in LARGE shareholder ears.
Watch the fireworks then.

July 4 approaching.:ok:

[UP D Date]

'Oh dear', you can hear MH sigh, if only I'd made the big Dick redundant when I had the chance, only a few short months ago during my roster debacle.......:ugh:

[UP D Date]

Maybe they could make him a CSM!!!!:ok:

[PerBro]

"CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE........."
CAUGHT IN THE MIDDLE.........."
LOVE THAT ONE,WELCOME TO PERTH KENNETH!
WATCH OUT DONT WANT TO GET CAUGHT WITH OUR
PANTS DOWN DO WE?

BUGGA:sad:

[Anulus Filler]

You don't get a nickname like BIG DICK from not being one. Everyone knows that this bloke can F@ck up a game of tic-tac-toe!:sad:

[Long Bay Mauler]

http://www.royandhg.com/clubbuggery/rhg6.jpg

[Collando]

You know they live in a different world those managers,

A self delusional world that says to them when they look in the the mirror that they are actually great managers and that the only problem that they have is the childish rabble they call the workforce, who maintain a culture that they are not responsible for,but a fine tuned business none the less, with world class MROs, world class equipment, perfect working environment, not quite enough managers though, but there the best ones we could find,for the least amount of money. And all that for no training although we did go bushwacking but funnilly enough I cant remember an amazing thing about it or what they were trying to teach us!!!!!

We are a Godsend to our shareholders. Who wants to buy us?????? for a small fee to the QANTAS executive It can be arranged.Im sure its in everybodys interest, dont worry about the $100 million plus that we owe in fines for illegal and improper price fixing deals, it was nothing to do with us here at the top. And I know the share price is lower than it was 8 years ago and its dropped 40% and we pay sh*t dividends but we're good, really.........Honest.......dont you trust us ? why not?

Dont worry about the engineers either, we intend to hold them down untill there completely buggered, and their small grievence of 2% is swept away,after all its not about the money its about control and we cant let them have any control over us with those things they call licences.

If only we could buy CASA completely this would all be over.

[wanty]

Let me tell you a story bout a tird named dick,
He ruled from the top and was considered a :mad:,
Had his own company which he tried to flog,
Sale went south and down the river like a log,
Silly old marg got tossed aside,
He said it don't matter I'll take it in my stride,
Theres always next year,I'll still be here,
What about the workers,they'll buy me a beer,
Where oh where can I hide now,
Whats that,whats that,problems overseas??,
Toss them 60 mill,go away please,
Oil,oil,oil, prices too high,
Thats it,thats it,gotta run with that,
Everyones to blame except the fat cat,
3%,3%,3% can't give any more,
To give 5%, will leave me poor,
Don't listen to Steve and the wook they'll restore your pride,
Listen to me I'll take you for a ride,
Please don't listen to your execuuu tive,
With you doing that we can't divide,
Listen to us, you must abide,
Take a good look at our big sticks,
We hand them out, to all our ass licks,
Come and get a taste of my bonUUs,
It's big it's huge it's of whopping size,
Don't you complain,you'll get ya payrise,
Tow the company line or we'll dock your pay,
**** we lost in court today, ok you've had your say,
Aircraft,aircraft stacked against the fence,
Shareholders money flushed down the drain,
It don't matter, I'll feel no pain,
You'll live in squaller,but I'll be in spain,
Country icon I turned to ****,
Suppose it don't matter,I got my bit,
Companies in shambles,companies a mess,
Where oh where can I go next

[Long Bay Mauler]

http://by104w.bay104.mail.live.com/att/GetAttachment.aspx?tnail=0&messageId=b2a795d5-89a3-4546-974b-16dc7b3853e8&Aux=14|0|8CAA06590C756A0| (http://by104w.bay104.mail.live.com/mail/ReadMessageLight.aspx?Action=ScanAttachment&AllowUnsafeContentOverride=False&AttachmentIndex=0&AttachmentDepth=0&FolderID=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000001&InboxSortAscending=False&InboxSortBy=Date&IsMessageSafe=True&MessageCodePage=20127&ReadMessageId=b2a795d5-89a3-4546-974b-16dc7b3853e8&n=1690368650)

[ejectx3]

Please can we see the leaked email?

[Toolpants]

numbskull (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=107223)


Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Sydney
Posts: 239
Whats the buggery story all about for those of us who are only able to follow this circus via pprune??









An e-mail was leaked that was between Management.

One of the little YES men that management is using to do their dirty work was mentioned. Management themselves “M” refer to him as a scab.

They talk about escalating the dispute, docking peoples pay and what it will take to cause a walk out. They then say (and I quote) “Staying with a buggery campaign always a option.... Dick”

BTW. I think Dick is the manager's name and not a tool for the buggering but I’m not sure.

[D.P. Gumby]

http://www.v7n.com/forums/attachments/graphic-design-forum/1029d1121804285-ass-clown-award-assclown.jpg

Insert Executive/Managers Name into the Award



EVERYONE OF THEM HAS QUALIFIED

[Anulus Filler]

Now it's made the headlines with managers' names mentioned.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/qantas-buggery-a-concern-union-20080619-2tk4.html

What a crock of crap when KB opens his gob...

Qantas executive general manager (people) Kevin Brown said the "buggery campaign" referred to in the email was a reference to the union, not any plans of Qantas. "The only disruptive actions towards the customers at the moment are by the union," he said.

The "buggery campain" is a reference from YOUR MANAGERS about what is being carried out to the LAME'S. It has never originated from the union. These are the type of characters we are dealing with. Once again you have been exposed as a blatant liar.:=:=:}

[The cougar]

Sickofqf
The AME's with PE stamps can't sign for their own boro's!
Next time the puppet fools feed the strategy map into us ensure everyone says
"ITS NOT THE BUSINESS WE KNOW ,ITS THE BUSINESS WE KNEW".
If that big ugly fool from Perth wants to bugger me let him try.
Seems big M is a tee totaler due to a bad experience , I have heard he has already fallen off the wagon! He seems to no longer be a star in GD's eye anymore.

[Sunfish]

1me:

I don't understand why they hate us so much. It's not like we go out at the drop of a hat... rather we have bent over backwards for a company who thinks that we are the most overpaid scum of the earth.

Please understand, it's not about you, it's about them. Narcissists hate everybody who works for them because you are little unimportant people as far as they are concerned. Your job is to shut up and deliver what is required by them to advance their careers.

Understand it's nothing personal, do you think that the tiger snake that bites you is making a personal statement? Nope. It's just doing what it must.

Understand that if the company were making a trillion dollars profit a year and QF shares were $12,000 each, they would still only offer you 3%, because that's what you are worth.

To put it another way, do you think if I won Tattslotto I'd start feeding my dog on caviar? Why would I? - That's the way they think.

I'd really like to see this thread and others like the APA debacle thread archived, because the picture it paints of what happens when narcissists manage a company for a number of years is highly instructive, if not tragic.

My guess is that there are going to be "discussions" in Board and Management circles this weekend, and if they have a "nuclear option" they will try and use it next week.

Please be very careful at work and do exactly as your Fed. Sec. says.

[opalops]

EX SYD HVY LAME any chance to be reemployed in SYD sounds like fun lololol:D

[ling_woo]

I'm not surprised Fairfax got hold of this

--------------------------------------------------

EMAIL FROM QANTAS SENIOR MANAGER DICK HAYES TO SENIOR MANAGER MURRAY HARRIS

'If we escalate and advise them that they will lose pay, do you think they will work on, or walk off? Too hard to call with any certainty, could go either way but given some of the personalities I tend to favour walk off based on the peer pressure evident. Staying with a buggery campaign always a option. Dick'

--------------------------------------------------

Union national secretary Steve Purvinas said the "buggery campaign" was part of a management attempt to target its members. "What we've heard is management have put together a team of people to start harassing and targeting members who are toeing the union line," he said. "Putting pressure on people to do things they shouldn't do."

Engineers have been docked pay for refusing to do overtime, something the airline says is within the law.

Qantas executive general manager (people) Kevin Brown said the "buggery campaign" referred to in the email was a reference to the union, not any plans of Qantas. "The only disruptive actions towards the customers at the moment are by the union," he said.

[The Black Panther]

Engineers' strike over salaries hits Qantas shares

QANTAS shares fell to their lowest price in a year as the airline said it would take all steps necessary to minimise disruption from an engineers strike set for Monday....snip...Qantas shares closed 10¢ lower at $3.12 after falling as low as $3.09.http://business.theage.com.au/engineers-strike-over-salaries-hits-qantas-shares-20080619-2tml.html

This is the only headline GD will notice. It's taken a while.

"It's shareholders who are important. We don't worry about customers or employees"

[The Black Panther]

Virgin Blue says high oil prices will force some major airlines around the world to shut down within the next six months.
In Australia both Qantas and Virgin Blue have responded to soaring costs by cutting back flights and increasing fares.
Virgin Blue CEO Brett Godfrey told ABC1's Lateline Business (http://abc.net.au/lateline/business) the situation is far worse than it was during recent aviation crises

I think we have to be aware of the public viewpoint. IF ?? oil continues to rise perhaps an option maybe be.
1. 6% backpay previous 18 mths to end of last EBA.
2. Take 3% offer
3. Lock in 5% increase based on any increase in executive remuneration or bonus issue. That is to say when the first announcement of an increase to made we line up for our 5%.
4. 3 year EBA

We must remain flexible but am for the best outcome. I am concerned the oil price will work against us.

[wanty]

I think we have to be aware of the public viewpoint. IF ?? oil continues to rise perhaps an option maybe be.
1. 6% backpay previous 18 mths to end of last EBA.
2. Take 3% offer
3. Lock in 5% increase based on any increase in executive remuneration or bonus issue. That is to say when the first announcement of an increase to made we line up for our 5%.
4. 3 year EBA

We must remain flexible but am for the best outcome. I am concerned the oil price will work against us.


We have for a longtime been flexible and some years got 0 % increase.
How have the fat cats at the top rewarded us with our flexibility,by rewarding themselves with HUGE BONUSES.
Where did the money come from for these bonuses ???
Straight out of your backpocket and that of every other employee who remained flexible.
Why doesn't G D!cko show flexibilty ????
Executive payrises on hold, give me a break !!!

If D!cko was a good leader he would have led by example years ago.
What is the example he has displayed ???
To milk the cow and all who feed from her for all it's worth.

[employes perspective]

i think if the oil price hits $500 a barrel no one really cares anymore,this little boy has cried wolf one o many times,in fact if where to hit that mark the pay rise would have to be in the 25% PA bracket,Qantas would smart to lock in 5% now before the cost of living goes up further..:E

[REALITY]

Just follow the instructions from Bexley. It's that simple :ok:

[SpannerTwister]

Just follow the instructions from Bexley. It's that simple :ok:

And also, do not leak e-mails....Oh, hang on, we knew that already, it's the other side that's got a problem in that area !:}

FedSec....If asked to do O/T, are good responses...

"Yes, I'd like to, BUT I cannot as I'm feeling really fatigued"
"Yes, I'd like to BUT I have a family commitment so I cannot this time"
"Yes, I'd like to BUT ...........so I cannot at this time"


SpannerTwister

[The Black Panther]

We have for a longtime been flexible and some years got 0 % increase.
How have the fat cats at the top rewarded us with our flexibility,by rewarding themselves with HUGE BONUSES.We should remain flexible. That is not to say to take less than what we have set out to claim.

SP is doing a great job. As others say here we await directions from the Bexley Bunker!

[PIOT Bord]

Speaking of FOG - It appears we have somebody else on our side.
The weather bureau says it has been one of the foggiest months in more than 40 years, with four days of heavy fog recorded at the Brisbane Airport.
Bugger that eh!

[wanty]

And also, do not leak e-mails....Oh, hang on, we knew that already, it's the other side that's got a problem in that area !:}

FedSec....If asked to do O/T, are good responses...

"Yes, I'd like to, BUT I cannot as I'm feeling really fatigued"
"Yes, I'd like to BUT I have a family commitment so I cannot this time"
"Yes, I'd like to BUT ...........so I cannot at this time"


SpannerTwister

Allow me to fill in the gap there spannertwister.

............ = my hemaroids are acting up so ...................

............ = can't stand being around you managers any longer............

............ = I have a media interview regarding bullying at work ...........

............ = I have a job interview ..................................................

............ = I'm watching the sun set,it's gunna be AMAZING ...............

[Dockie]

To SP and the boys - You're doing a great job and a BIG thankyou from the boys at Melbourne Heavy. We're behind you 110% [No pun intended].
That KB is a piece of work is'nt he. How could you possibly trust them ever again.
I'm showing my age here but I knew big Dick when he was an FE on 72s and my hasn't he gone downhill since.

[Point0Five]

For those that haven't already realized

In Australia, it's spelt: realised.

[off-sked]

We have all heard of Fuel Hedging. Its the stuff that has allowed Qf to make huge profits by passing on open market fuel price increases (fuel surcharges, ticket price increases etc) to it's customers whilst not being subject to open market fuel prices (fuel hedged at $76/barrel prices).

Daily Telegraph 11 June

The airline expects to make a record profit of upwards of $1.5 billion this financial year, due largely to its fuel hedging program, which has seen it pay $US76 a barrel for fuel.
But, from July 1, the airline will have to pay $US112 a barrel until the end of December, and substantially more thereafter if fuel prices remain high.


Qf has also been running a LAME Hedging program whereby they have have successfully hedged LAME pay at rates well below open market rates.

The current environment is for qf, an environment in which the the companies costs (ie: fuel and Labour) are alligning closer to the costs faced by other airlines in the open market and closer to the "level playing field" that Qf management has been claiming it has wanted for years.

[fatcat69]

When the manager drone out the same old lines come back to them with the truth.

Yes fuel prices are going up but so are ticket prices. In fact ticket prices have risen faster than the fuel prices and we are making record profits.

Consumers still pay the same price for a ticket to london as they did over 10 years ago...... they are very well off and have been living in a fools paradise.

Fuel represents 23% of our costs today and if Mr Dixons predictions are correct will represent 30%. Yes thats bad but if ticket prices just keep pace with growth over the last few years our shareholders will be earning more net profits than today.

As usual they only tell half a story and "bugger" all of us !!!!!!!!!!!:}:}:}

[Konehead]

I think we have to be aware of the public viewpoint. IF ?? oil continues to rise perhaps an option maybe be.
1. 6% backpay previous 18 mths to end of last EBA.
2. Take 3% offer
3. Lock in 5% increase based on any increase in executive remuneration or bonus issue. That is to say when the first announcement of an increase to made we line up for our 5%.
4. 3 year EBA

We must remain flexible but am for the best outcome. I am concerned the oil price will work against us.

The oil price will fall. Here's why:
1. The price is high due to speculators buying up oil futures
2. Supply oustrips world demand by 200,000 barrels per day.
3. Saudi Arabia has just announced it is increasing supply by another 200,000 barrels per day.
4. There is an upcoming meeting in Jedda, Saudi Arabia. Discussions between OPEC and concerned economies (Australia is invited: Martin Ferguson, Minister For Resources & Energy is attending) regarding the oil price. Further production increases? Reform of the world oil market to limit the effect of speculators? Whatever results, the effect will be to lower the price. Why?
5. Because the "Captains of Industry" and governments will not allow one sector of the economy - oil - dictate business input costs and inflation to them.

[fatcat69]

So if we had people smart enough to hedge our fuel prices back in 2006 and allow us to pay only $72 a bbl why do we have no hedging in place from July 1....

I know what happened without being there. Some clown manager came in with no experience in running an airline and sacked the guy who for the last 20 years has been protecting our business from any large spikes in the oil price. Every year it cost them a small amount of money to protect them from billions of dollars in risk.....yeah but we sacked him and saved $100K a year

Well done, and whos head will roll for it!!!! ohhh yeah we all take less than inflation!!!!! and FOG gets more shares and a bonus for making our business sustainable.........................not :ok::ok:

Qantas grounds jets over soaring fuel bill - News - Travel - theage.com.au (http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/costs-fuel-qantas-cuts/2008/05/28/1211654109671.html)

Qantas at present only pays around US$72 a barrel for its oil needs, due to its fuel hedging policy where it locks in its fuel contracts at the start of every financial year. But from July 1, the fuel hedging will drop off and most of Qantas's fuel bill will be exposed to the current market price of around US$130 a barrel. It only has a small portion of its fuel bill for 2008-09 locked in at around US$90 a barrel.

[Konehead]

In fact ticket prices have risen faster than the fuel prices and we are making record profits.
We WERE making record profits. Not any more.
I hear from a reliable source that forward bookings have plummeted. No-one is buying tickets with QF anymore. Especially to London. It would seem that dispatch reliability has affected consumer confidence. When you buy a ticket you expect to get there on the advertised day, let alone the time. That has to be costing millions in lost revenue.
The "alternative workforce" must be costing a pretty penny. A very reliable source (an "alternative worker")tells me the following:
1. 55 "alternative workers"
2. $100,000 for first 6 months, or $211,000/week in "sit-down money"
3. $140,000 for second 6 months
4. Accomodation in serviced apartments in Sydney: conservatively assume $150/night, or $57,000/week
5. All training (CAR214, airside drivers authority, you name it) - God knows how much!
6. Fllights up and down the east coast for "famil" and "positioning" - God knows how much!
That's a pretty expensive insurance policy, considering the ALAEA has been publicly adamant that QF aren't going to provoke us into "striking".
The hotel bills (5-star accomodation), meal vouchers (@$30 each) and taxi fares for pax on delayed/cancelled flights has gotta be hurting.
Massive amounts of overtime for planning, ops and frontline staff to deal with the delays and disruptions.
All that leave we can't take is a liability on the company books. No leave for 2 months now, and no likelihood of getting any soon. Ouch.
Lost customers: a good source once told me that internal research has shown that once QF lose a customer, they never get them back, due to the superior product offered elsewhere. No point having an award winning IFE product if the IFE system doesnt work, and award winning cabin service, if there aren't enough flight attendants to deliver it, and the flight attendants you do have are divided along pay scales, leading to the "I'm not paid enough to clean up spew/work through my break/attend to that passenger - you're paid more than me, you do it" attitude.

[Dockie]

I had to go to Adelaide a few years ago to fix an 73 and I can remember big Dick walking into the hangar and complaining that he a had a wheel and brake to change and that was for the whole shift. Talk about a go slow.

[Sunfish]

Dixon is really a one trick pony. He screams to the media about how difficult the airline business is, then generates record profits each year. It's a good strategy for two reasons.

First, it gives him a solid foundation from which to attack his employees wages and conditions.

Secondly, it reduces the pressure from the public and economists for the Government to open the skies and allow more competition. The last round(two years ago?) was won yet again by Qantas when Singapore airlines was again frozen out.

The sad reality is that QF profits come not from having people rushing to their door because their product is just so superior that people will pay any price to fly QF. Nope, people fly QF because they have no choice. Every competitors aircraft is full, and QF controls something like 45% of the International market and God knows how much of the domestic market.

In other words, people fly QF because they have no choice and GD knows it. That's why he can offer a rotten product, delivered in ancient aircraft, by bored and disengaged staff.

And the airline still makes big money.

Now this isn't really a new strategy that GD has dreamed up. He borrowed it from the farmers who have been doing it for at least 40 years while laughing all the way to the bank.

- if it rains "We can't get into the paddocks to plant", "There going to be too much grass and a bad bushfire season".

- If it doesn't rain - obvious.

- If meat prices are high "We can't afford to restock"

- If they get a bumper crop "There is a glut on the market and prices are depressed".

And so on and so on.

GD's **** about "Asian Competitors", "Oil Prices", "Economic downturns", "SARS", etc. are exactly the same as the farmers.

Keep going. Labor is just another cost like oil, and you get to pay the going rate. Do what your Fed.Sec. says.

[blubak]

Maybe this man has an intimate knowledge of this e-mail.!
It seems like he is suggesting he knows what was meant but not said or is it just another failed blatant attempt to try and do a cover up?
Remember(whoever u are),that once the evidence is out there(as in e mail) there is no point in trying to cover it up.There are no prizes for 2nd.
The e mail is straight to the point and we all know what it means.

Just a question-anyone know why wed & thurs meetings cancelled?

[Millet Fanger]

You have got to give it to the lighthouse group, all those years planning away and they finally achieved something - shut down PPRuNe for 12 hours. On you Ash, sobast, LAMEA380 - whatever you are calling yourself now.

On a different note, bad hair day for Syd Dom yesterday. 9 cancellations and 3 "return to gate" with an ensuing minimum 2 hour delay. Apparently GD would prefer to shut down Qantas than sit down at a table and negotiate. I wonder if Geoff has heard of FOG.

[fatcat69]

"I hear from a reliable source that forward bookings have plummeted. "

For the next three weeks at least all flights north on the Kangaroo route are oversold, same on the way back.

As you say when all the competitors a/c are full (eg SQ with staff who are happy and provide service to the customer) thay have no other choice than to buy a seat on QF.

We spend $ 500M a year on ads showing how great QF service is.......what a joke. Take $200M and use it to employ 2000 more front line staff at airports checking pax, loading bags and engineers to fix hold items....what a difference that would make!!!

Quote of the week from sunfish

"That's why he can offer a rotten product, delivered in ancient aircraft, by bored and disengaged staff."

[PIOT Bord]

"Forward bookings" particularly on international flights look a minimum of 3 months in advance. Most people booking to go to places like London have made that decision quite a while ago, particularly with school holidays approaching and the peak tourist season in the northern hemisphere.

It would be a BUGGER if those travelling don't encounter FOG.

[wake_up_geff]

GD was sitting one day reading the Financial Review thinking ....

"how can I screw the LAME'S more.....I know I'll suspend the foreign operators contracts and blame the LAME'S for it...perfect and if I project the cost it comes to .....mmmmm 5.7%......I'm sure there won't be any repercussions from that!!"

wake up geff


http://www.foxnews.com/images/242832/0_61_wiggles.jpg

[The masked goatrider]

Just a question-anyone know why wed & thurs meetings cancelled?

I know. Spoke to Steve last night after he got out of court apparently it went something like this.

Qantas claimed that the stopwork meetings from Wednesday were not because of the EBA but were retaliation for their buggery campaign. Now you can only have PIA for your agreement, not because you are pi$$ed off.

SP was ready to provide the evidence that the plans were all drawn up the week before in fact they even told management the week before that they should expect the notices for the rolling stoppages.

SP would have been asked on the stand when he found out about the Qantas campaign of buggery and who his source was, he wasn't going to lie on the stand so that left him with 2 options.

Option one, refuse to answer and get done for contempt of court which has a maximum of 6 months jail (plenty of buggery there) or reveal his source. Now one would think that its no big deal to dob in a Qantas manager but when the same manager supplies tonnes of useful advice and documents, you tend not to want to go down that path.

The other means to prevent Qantas putting him on the stand was to just cancel Wed-Thu meetings and Qantas had no case. Took 10 minutes before Qantas dropped it. This was all about finding out which Manager is the leak.

[Acute Instinct]

This EBA should have been done an dusted 18 Months ago, influenced by the economic conditions prevalent at that time. Stall, stall, stall, to the next sob story. The boy who cried wolf! It's the oil this time, really it is!
Questions have been asked as to why QF's hedging is about to expire or otherwise deteriorate. Look a little deeper. These speculative calls come down to the wire. Congratulations should be extended to QF's hedging department. It appears yet again that they have read the market perfectly. Give or take 3 months, the current hedging performance will efficently expire just as the oil price slumps to true market levels. Qantas have led the Airline world with incredibly accurate hedging policies and this time is no different. When QF's hedging appears to be losing its economic viability, bet on one thing, the oil price is about to fall. They are the best Airline Economics Management Team in the world. Problem is, you can't run any business in spite of your employees. Irrepairable damage sustained. Just like VH-OJH. Fix it at all costs to save the brand value. $110M on one aircraft. Disenfranchising your work force would have to be worth ten OJH's. Priorities? Is there an insurance policy to pick up this bill? APA, all eggs into one basket. Where to now?

[YOSHI]

off-sked,

QF has'nt lost/cancelled the customer contracts, they have subcontracted them to JH!!! i.e. comtract labour ( labour hire LAME!! ).
This is what QF want, a labour hire system where they dictate who, how many, where and when they employ a LAME. This is the vision of KMcD, and most likely supported by MH. They just want us to walk out the door without our redundancy packages, thats why they are not negotiating with us, hopeing we will get dissenchanted and leave!

[off-sked]

Thanks... I should have guessed

[tnfixer]

Just a question-anyone know why wed & thurs meetings cancelled?


I must have missed something. I didn't know anything about meetings/stopwork next thurs.

[off-sked]

Steve,

With the manpower freed up by loosing contract work at the terminals, will the O/T bans still have significant effect?

[tnfixer]

heard rumors it's on PPRuNe somewhere.
also saw a list on the table in the smoko room last week.

[FMU]

I hear that those LAMEs with customer “tail” payments, and who are no longer using them, are now having those payments taken away. Managers are calling the affected staff into the office 1 by 1 and giving them a pay cut of $100 or more per week. Fair enough some might say, they're not utilising the approval, but I got to question the timing of doing this.

Is this just another part of their BUGGERY campaign to provoke a response?

[blubak]

Seems like they are really confused-they are not sure now whether the buggery campaign is theirs or not and who it is actually against!!
Another e-mail might solve it!!
No great loss with no meetings later in week,might be another few e-mails between now and then.
Be a big witch hunt now to try and find the source-u just got to laugh!:)

[sniggiH]

Last time i posted there was some confusion as to who i am. I am the current DMM in cairns,along with my subordinate notseW. I used to be in Melb Heavy then Mel Dom Then OOL finally on to cairns.I have had many nick names,Huggy Bear,Coolangatta Gold,Jabba.

This Buggery thing is mild compared to the campain of harassment and bullying i have been runing for 18months. Not the whole workforce in cairns but just a select few.

We target certain individuals that have their own personalities and intimidate them. I have got rid of a few people to date with a few more close to cracking.

With this industrial action i have been doing as much overtime as i can( i need the extra funds for my divorse).I dont have a promblem being a scab. ,

[chksatis]

Oh well with all that spare time on our hands next week not working customers, we will endevour to transit qantas to absolute perfection, which means sorry they wont be flying anywhere!!!

[Short_Circuit]

BUGGER it,
I think I should start to slow down a bit and take 5 and take 5 again and take 5 again.
If you are being accused of it anyway .......

(5+5+5%)

[Toolpants]

Qantas 20 June 08
137 flights with delays of more than 45mins. Way to go Geoff.

Airline / Scheduled / Tracked/ Departed / Cancelled /15-30 / 30-45 / 45+ / Ontime
Qantas / ---516----- / ---470--- / ---444---- / -----26------ /-- 69-- / --54-- / 137 /--- 41%

[Collando]

Item from news site crikey.com may be of interest ...



5 . Flying on Qantas next week? You might want to read this
Ben Sandilands writes:

If this week is any guide, next week’s rolling stop work meetings by Qantas ground engineers will make flying on the airline hell.

On Tuesday just after midnight a 747, QF2 made an emergency return landing at London Heathrow after smoke filled the cabin, and the pilots, wearing oxygen masks, dumped 77 tonnes of fuel on the way back.

On Wednesday a domestic Qantas 767 docked at Sydney with smoke pouring out of a defective undercarriage. And while delays blamed on overtime bans by ground engineers crippled the timetable, several jets were flown abroad empty, apparently to get the minimum maintenance needed for them to legally re-enter passenger service.

Get used to minimum maintenance. The reason Qantas can’t fly to schedule is that it dare not knowingly break the rules on the legal minimums without being liable for criminal prosecutions potentially far more serious than systematically stealing from its freight clients through illegal price fixing.

A late Qantas jet should be a safe Qantas jet. Assuming the managers who are standing in for engineers know what they are doing.

This coming week is critical to the dispute between Qantas and its licensed engineers and mechanics. If Qantas finds a way to replace them root and branch, which is one of the rumours going around, it will cost way more than giving in to demands for a 5% rather than 3% pay rise for each of the next three years. And if a screw up kills a jetload of passengers it costs them "everything".

Or maybe not. It is an unpleasant reality that in any airline there is a team that calculates and manages risk. Including the risk of loosing a "hull", a pseudonym for several hundred people wrapped in aluminium, say once every ten or twenty years versus the terrible inefficiencies of the no-longer fashionable cultures of "excessive" excellence in flight and operational standards that built the world’s leading carriers, including Qantas.

The cost of compliance with regulations is one of the few areas left, other than labor "reforms", where savings can be made.

CASA is holding the line. An email received this morning from within the safety regulator says:

Were keeping a close eye on all that is going on in Qantas. We are making it clear to them that the standards set down in their manuals and the regulations must be met at all times.

There are no short cuts being granted. It is up to Qantas to manage this situation but we will take appropriate action if standards are not met.

[Dr Itzfukt]

Bugger me

:ooh::ooh::ooh::ooh::ooh:

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Hi All. Thought I mite post after reading for some time.

Yesterday, a meeting was held in Brisbane Heavy Maintenance between unions, (ALAEA, AMWU, AWU and CEPU) and QF (Brent Earnshaw, manager Brisbane Heavy Maint., James Moreley from IR and David Hyland). The meeting was "medeated" by a representative from the ACTU.

The objective was to provide unions with another opportunity to discuss the Heavy Maintenance flexibilities clause. (Suite of rosters, 20th day banking and DILPH banking). The offer is back on it seems.

So after four hours of discussion, it came down to this.

Employees in Brisbane Heavy accept the flexibilities and QF will commit to A330 Heavy maintenance onshore. No movement on pay. No movement on 3%. No incentive whatsoever other than a commitment to A330 work onshore.

The carrot on the stick is rotten. People don't want to eat it.

We are expected to vote within the next fortnight on this clause being included in our EBA’s.

$hit sandwiches anyone? Yes, we know they were served up months ago and you declined but let's try again anyway albeit, with stale bread.

[fixitdude]

What about flexibilities for Mel Heavy? They can come and talk to us about them.....But at no stage should the Flexibilities for Heavy (Victoria or Brisvegas) be put back in the EBA for all to vote on!!!!!!:=

[Millet Fanger]

With all the stress of loosing customer work and trying to deal with the ramifications of QE management's mess up, I thought I would take my family to the movies for some good quality time. We're going to see the new blockbuster "Honey (Geoff) I've shrunk the company!" - directed by David and Murray.

[spangled1]

might be a bit off topic at the moment, but i hear a certain DMM in FNQ is offering type training on the the space shuttle. does anyone know what the tail payment or grade is for this new rig. and would also like to know what the allowance is (ie how many rubles) for a posting on the ISS?
:rolleyes:

[division1]

fixitdude
What about flexibilities for Mel Heavy? They can come and talk to us about them.....But at no stage should
the Flexibilities for Heavy (Victoria or Brisvegas) be put back in the EBA for all to vote on!!!!!!:=


I thought that was the reason for the original proposal to fail.
If the management wants "(Suite of rosters, 20th day banking and DILPH banking).", why not give it to them.

"So after four hours of discussion, it came down to this.
Employees in Brisbane Heavy accept the flexibilities and QF will commit to A330 Heavy maintenance onshore. "

Too easy, just have a local agreement, it could begin next month.
(Brent Earnshaw, manager Brisbane Heavy Maint., James Moreley from IR and David Hyland)
Surely these guys know that already, why not put an extended hour shift
in there for everyone to vote on too. Assclowns.

[UPPERLOBE]

The current situation is not a management mess up, they planned it this way. They want to chop the LAME numbers and re build the system their way, they been aiming this way for the last three years or more.

This is all someones management wet dream out of some text book, they even quote it if you listen between the lines.

You guy's are right they don't know how operating an airline works because they don't care about the way it "was" done they are following some warped ideal, they will keep the minimum in house and sell the rest.

Man, it sucks, all we stood for, you know old fogey sentiments like "integrity" and "the safety of the a/c comes first" and the pride in being an engineer means jack to these morons.

Yep, it's a conspiracy alright, and sad to say that at the end of the day they own the airline, sadly, we thought we were part of the family apparently not, aye.

[SeldomFixit]

What part of, you'll be offered employment with JH after QF closes the door on you, don't you understand ??????:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Dr Itzfukt]

Who were the boro boys?

[The Bungeyed Bandit]

Dr Itzfukt,

"Who were the boro boys?"

Wouldn't want to give you a "BUM STEER"

[One Eye Redundant]

Dr Itzfukt,

"Who were the boro boys?"

I've heard one of them could be at home at the helm of the star ship Enterprise (the next generation).

[stiffnut]

Getting rid of the foreign operator maintenance in my opinion has been planned way in advance, look at it from managements point of view, they have not got enough manpower to look after our own aircraft, and have little hope of attracting the necessary engineers on existing wages, so by getting rid of foreign contracts they have freed up some manpower from the S.I.T. that can be re-deployed to the jetbase to cover their shortfall as very few apprentices are coming through for the next few years and ames are leaving at an alarming rate, just another knee jerk reaction, reminds you of the NSW state government.

[sickofqf]

Don't forget....and i use a quote from Lateline......

"The disgraced former premier of Western Australia during the 1980s"

....I love cryptic clues........

[sickofqf]

First of all you'll need a free anonymiser like this.

Then somewhere to host the names, like this, or even a text file on somewhere like Rapidshare.com

Then just let us know where to go, we can PM you the names we know of that aren't on the list yet !!

There's always those free optus terminals is the SIT.........

[The Black Panther]

So what is the full story? All I know is.
BIT Customer contracts canceled Manpower about now ~40 surplus
SIT Customer contracts canceled manpower about now ~ ?? surplus
MIT ?????
PIT ?????

[sickofqf]

Two quotes from Seldom Fixit;
The fact you are discussing it here rather than in direct email to your membership astounds me.
You will be rolled even before your PIA begins.

Hmm, seems the FedSec is only rising in the membership's estimation....off the mark buddy. :rolleyes:

What part of, you'll be offered employment with JH after QF closes the door on you, don't you understand ??????

On this one you could be correct......but don't think we'll be sad. QF will HAVE to pay us out, simple legal technicality......and then JH will give us a 20k pay rise..........ooooooo that hurts.....I'm sooooooo scared...........:eek:

Mate, don't you get it.......most of the LAMEs would be happy if this happened as they are sick and tired of the Qantas twits running the show.:ok:

Oh, and if those twits think they'll still have a job "managing" the QF-JH contracts......think again.......that adds dollars to the equation.

Why would QANTAS Airways need QE to be a middle twit in the relationship with JH? Answer? They wouldn't.

Whatever the outcome it's bye bye MH DC KM DH K'scab'G etc !! :D:D:D

[sickofqf]

So what is the full story? All I know is.
BIT Customer contracts canceled Manpower about now ~40 surplus
SIT Customer contracts canceled manpower about now ~ ?? surplus
MIT ?????
PIT ?????


Umm, and who exactly is going to do these contracts..........oh that's right, appropriately licensed engineers who the likes of Emirates, Cathay, AMSA etc will recruit..........from where exactly........

Hmm, guess there'll be a few less 'spare' personnel after all.

Good one

[LAME2]

So why dump the contracts to a third party? Did the overseas airlines refuse to send their own engineers or was the cost of this to be born by QE and assessed as too expensive? Is the actions of QE management a direct result of our stop work meetings and perhaps mounting pressure from the board/CASA? Is the dumping permanent or short term? Perhaps as alluded to in an earlier post, the source of the leaked email was perhaps becoming uneasy with the masters plans.

So many questions and so few answers. I'm struggling to keep up with these recent developments.