Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA [Archive] - Page 7

kotoyebe

29th May 2008, 07:32

Blubak said
Its ok to use accurate facts but please dont insult us-it wont get you anywhere REPEAT-IT WONT GET YOU ANYWHERE.

Yes it will get him somewhere. You and I know that those figures are just lies. But that doesn’t matter. This is as much a media war as an industrial war, and I’m afraid that today, di*ckson has won the battle. While we have not come out looking too bad, neither has di*kson been questioned or challenged on anything. And the fact that he hasn’t been, means that Joe Public believes him.

I have been monitoring the media all day, and di*kson has managed to get his message across. That message is that you are all greedy, and trying to bring the company down at a time of crisis and darkness. We all recognize it as the Doom and Gloom theory. Joe Public thinks it’s all true because everyone can see the pump prices every day.

And the scary thing about this, is that it was all too predictable, and the association, and the ACTU fell for it hook, line and sinker. The other day Sunfish said there was something fishy about di*ckson cancelling the meeting with the ACTU. Well, it was all well and truly planned. He was NEVER going to meet with them. You seriously think he would meet with a peak body of Unions?

The cancellation was just to provoke you guys, and then out came the doom and gloom. He played you like a fiddle. If Sunfish and I could see something fishy about this, and I’m no genius, then why didn’t the association and the ACTU? News grabs of members and Sharan Burrow outside the terminal whining about di*kson’s pay, while being all true, doesn’t cut it for the media war. You need king hits like the staple story. You need to get di*kson squirming like DC did.

And from my point of view inside the airline, everyone is behind you, but we’re obviously pretty limited in what we can do to help. But what has been shown to me is that the OT bans are working a treat. I would keep going with these, rather than stoppages. Stoppages they can plan for and come up with solutions.

To win this, you need to bank up so much work that it becomes impossible to work the schedule, and so that it starts to cost them big dollars. Hopefully someone on the board, or shareholders will start to see the light.

Finally (long first post, eh!), regardless of how this all pans out, you should all remove your goodwill towards the company while it is run by di*kson, and until the board puts someone in that sees people as an asset. Take you breaks, follow the procedures, be too drunk to come in for OT.

Stay strong

Ngineer

29th May 2008, 07:54

$130K average? Maybe they included Mr Cox's wage. You can't do that Geoff, he isn't a LAME.

sickofqf

29th May 2008, 07:55

kotoyebe,

I partially agree with your view that today belonged to Dick-son, although I think it may have been a narrow win for the union side only because the majority of the public are still in anti-howard mode and Dixon is his puppet-master in their view.

If anything won the day for the unions though it wasn't the ALAEA or Ms Burrow. It was the AWU calling his 'sky is falling; rhetoric a load of bull, dreamed up so he could sack people. It was also mentioned that there has been NO profit warnings!

Dick-son stands for all of John Howards HR values and he made that clear in public. Also, the public at large don't trust him since the whole APA thing.
Therefore, every time he does the 'chicken little' everyone I know rolls their eyes and takes it with a truckload of salt.

I think you'll find most of the real workers of this country.....and in that I include many middle-managers of many companies who use QF for flights around the country are quietly rooting for the LAMEs. Not because they like us but they just want to see one of these bigotted trough snorting twerps eat some humble pie for a change.

Therefore, having said all that, for Dick-son to have a win he actually needs to have a HUGE points lead on the day as most of what he says counts for nought in the public's view.

Now, if Dicko was given the push and Borghetti or Gregg stepped up and hammered us we'd probably be in real trouble from a PR sense.

But then they wouldn't.....they'd know they'd still be here in 2-3 years and needing us to help them bail QF out of the poo-filled hole Dick has led us into!!

I reckon we'll need to hold out for the profit annoncement....and when it would have been higher than forecast until the special allowance for the pesky union dispute..............

happy shareholders.....I doubt it......and grumpy instos = bye bye Geoff!!

sickofqf

29th May 2008, 08:22

Just to let you all know, from my mouth Mr Dick-son will hence-forth be known as "The Liar"

Why?

Well, to start with I have 130000 reasons....... :\

plus.....

The Liar said on news.com.au
"This morning in the four hours in Sydney we got just about every flight away with very slight delays,'' he said.
Apparently 45 minute to 2 hour delays are now considered VERY minor. I'll remember that next time I'm getting hauled across a delay report for a 20 minute blowout!!

plus....

"internationally there will be up to 2 hour delays but there has been little impact."

Oh really,

QF43 to Auckland departed 2hrs 10 min late.

QF11 to LA LA Land departed, no wait, no it didn't it's 7hrs 40min late...estimated!

QF5 to Frankfurt via Singapore left 34 minutes late, WOW, earliest it's been in days!!

QF31 to Singapore hasn't gone, nope, it's late and estimated to go 3hrs 50min late.

And lastly, the precious QF1, the flight which apparently is the only one that matters. The flight that needed an entire FAT management structure and special projects team to figure out how to get it out on time. Yes, THAT QF1

Well, obviously they've concentrated all over their "human skin repair layers" on that one so it took off on time........

....what ? it's still here? NOOOOOOOOOO

Yep, and isn't expected to get out before 4 long LATE hours have elapsed.

LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR LIAR
:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=

Added note: seems the AWU are about to enter wage negotiations........uh oh Geoff, the big 3 all at once.....LAMEs, LH Pilots AND the dreaded TWU.
OOps.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/29/2259351.htm

B.Dawson

29th May 2008, 08:45

For the ALAEA Guys good job keep it up,its nice to have the ACTU as well explaining the real situation to the travelling public in the media.

Heard lots of reports of the great work our southern brothers and sisters are doing to keep our skys safe,by being extra vigilant during routine inspections.Keep a close eye on the log books during our breaks from work.Note everything especially whose signing,and if serious enough a CROSS report is the next option.

Nth of Bris we have been working hard to keep the skys safe.Their has been a division of the work force with some (i dont know the best word to describe them)dried wounds,trying to work around the procedures and the relevant documentation,to get aircraft serviceable.Fortuately these people(i still havent really got a non derogatory name for them) are in the minority and all the relevant information is being passed to the ALAEA.One has already resigned from the union,even though the union backed a relative of his when he was an AME in a Criminal case.

FOR EVERYONE OF THOSE OUT THERE,THIS DISPUTE WILL NOT GO ON FOREVER,BUT REMEMBER OUR MEMORIES ARE LONG ,AND THE INDUSTRY IS SMALL. SHORT TERM GAIN.............

Last thing good job everyone (almost),stand strong.

P.s Heard a snippit that the management LAME's are getting paid a bonus for every a/c signed out,anyone heard anything?

Rak-a-san

29th May 2008, 08:53

When the stop work meeting was on today in Syd, how did the big rat fair? Did the sneaky DMMs appear from the wood rot, can anyone shed some light for us interstaties on what happened during the meetings?

cjam

29th May 2008, 09:28

I mostly just ate chips and gravy. I saw one guy reading comics.

Collando

29th May 2008, 09:35

;)This is going around Tulla at the moment

Our work which art in aviation
LAME be thy name
Thy EBA come
Thy will be done on Tarmac as it is in Hangers
Give us this day our 5 percent
And forgo our EBA offer as GD is against us
And lead us not into conceeding
But deliver us from the CEO
For ours is the signature,the aircraft and the airline
For all those who fly

Airmen

Keep smiling through the times ahead
No one said this would be easy

B.Dawson

29th May 2008, 09:41

Amen Brother

wanty

29th May 2008, 10:03

wanty,

re your post i met with this company in the UK this week, the job i was offered was not as a scab , am considering it, i dont think that there is any problem with this , it is another role with a two year intial contract with good pay and conditions , so hopefully if i accept i wont be discriminated against.

Chanel, good luck to you m8.
If your not put in the posy of a scab,all the best to you.
It is a forgone conclusion though that Q are in the process of employing a scab workforce to replace us or lock us out.
Good luck negotiating any payrises with productivity gains though.

wanty

29th May 2008, 10:13

I too put my hand up for that average wage of $130,000.00 if you don't mind thanks Geoff.
That would be a 22% increase for me and the same percentage pay rise you have already given yourself this year.

What a hypocritical jack@ss.

What a joke,apparently I earn only just barely over GD.
Sorry,my mistake,after doing my figures again,it appears I was way off the mark.

With my average YEARLY WAGE of $130,000 this would put me slightly over GD'S "WEEKLY" WAGE.

Thats right,G Dickson earns $128,000 every week

Now who is greedy Geoff ???

Correction,he doesn't actually "EARN" this money,but thats what he pays himself.

HotDog

29th May 2008, 10:20

Hail GD full of greed
The Board is with thee
Blessed art thou amongst share holders and blessed is the fruit of your efforts,PROFIT
GD SOB, pray for us LAMEs
Now and at the hour of our death.:E

numbskull

29th May 2008, 10:36

Be patient guys.

You've waited 2 years, whats a few more weeks/months. It will be worth it to put GD back in his place.

All you will lose is the occassional 4hrs pay. How many weeks/months does GD think he can sustain this amount of bad publicity.

I don't think the public is that offside. Policemen, Firemen, Teachers, Nurses and countless others are in the same boat and are hoping that you win so that it will boost their claim.

Despite the spin that GD constantly trots out, people aren't stupid. Even the general public are sick of GD crying wolf whilst he QF posts record profit after record profit and he gives himself obscene payrises.

The victory will be sweet.

Turbo 5B

29th May 2008, 10:57

Torqueman

29th May 2008, 11:06

Have a read of this GD rabble. What a farce. I was just on my way to meet the unions, blah, blah, blah....

From the Herald Sun

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23777888-5005961,00.html

QANTAS management personnel were brought in from around the country to replace Sydney engineers who walked off the job over wages this morning.
About 100 Qantas engineers protesting against a 3 per cent wage offer from the airline walked off the job in Sydney for four hours.

Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon said the replacement personnel were highly trained.

"We brought in management engineers from around the country,'' Mr Dixon said.

"I don't call anyone a strike-breaker ... the union has every right to call a strike.

"We have every right to resist it and every right to use everything that the law allows us to do to keep our airline running.''

Mr Dixon said three flights were cancelled and there had been a delay of up to 30 minutes on others.

"This morning in the four hours in Sydney we got just about every flight away with very slight delays,'' he said.

Mr Dixon said he would not negotiate with the union while strikes were ongoing.

He said a number of Qantas executives, including himself, had been on the way to Melbourne to meet union officials when the industrial action was called.

"I'm agitated a bit ... I think that our customers deserve better,'' Mr Dixon said.

"I think they (the union) are very loose with the truth.''

The Black Panther

29th May 2008, 11:40

Don't mind digging in. My trench is dug already.

One question for Fed Sec.
How long can QF suspend leave before it becomes a test of civil rights, if for example a Lame hasn't had leave for >6 months or he has extensive leave accrued?

Socket

29th May 2008, 11:40

I find it really interesting that throughout this entire dispute, even after it has been raised as a topic of interest, the press has not been interested in comparing the obscene largess dixon and co have recieved with the miniscule amounts sought by the employees that drive their success. Even worse I believe is the fact that our new government hasn't intervened and made at least a statement of support .

600ft-lb

29th May 2008, 11:46

It will be interesting to see the results of the next bit of ALAEA actions, ratcheting up the 4 hour stop work meetings to be 4 hours nationwide simultaneously.. or even perhaps local time at each port for greater effectiveness.

As for the lean sigma 'manager', he was not respected when he was 'on the tools', he fumbles over his words trying to present a lean sigma white belt presentation (trust me i had to endure 2 days of his trying to explain what lean sigma was all about, it was cringeworthy), now he's pushing aircraft back over chocks and doing dodgy signoffs...

It is quite apparent that all of the people selected for lean sigma 'executive' level jobs, given black belt training, given $130k+ remuneration packages to sit up in an office and circle jerk about moving workshops to bankstown, then back to mascot, to strategically implement ready issues where they once were 30 years ago, but then removed so they could be put back again as just a few examples is a joke. Hopefully qantas looks after you boys! No one else will think anymore of you then the the little suprise the neighbours dog left on your yard.

wanty

29th May 2008, 11:46

Are RTS allowed to be signed with defects unsigned?
Are defects allowed to be written off with out maintenance manual references?
I beleive a 767 arrived in Melbourne from Sydney with this scenario.
The "LAME"that signed apparently was a Lean Smegma manager, and the paperwork copy is on its way to CASA, so I hear.

LOL, heard a similar rumour today. Apparently it couldn't be faxed at Q today due to a Q bar of certain Fax/phone numbers. I't's all good,as long as it got faxed from a private fax machine,all is good. Not so good for the scab manager who will probably come close to loosing his licence. Gee,wonder what might happen to Q for allowing this to happen.:ok::ok::ok:

Don't forget (Tony La...r),it's channel 4 to contact the engineers from domestic and channel 5 for the international engineers.

But most of all Tony,don't forget to "PUT IN 110%" your next course could be riding on it.

Wonder what would happen if certain people used thier own home phones to tie up the board runners phone all day ???

Could be pandemonium.:ok::ok::ok:

Socket

29th May 2008, 11:47

Another point of interest, GD has made a lot of statements that are obvious lies. Why has he not been sued. Any statement that harms the LAME lawful action should be by law a breach of law. People are sued for less every day. Sue the jerk for defamation or anything. Drag the ass into court, get him under oath, THEN ask the serious questions with all to watch.

sickofqf

29th May 2008, 12:40

NAS1801

29th May 2008, 13:25

Watching Lateline business now.... Dixon on there.... lies lies lies. The only Lie this scumbag doesn't make, is the straight one in bed at night.

psychogyro

29th May 2008, 15:18

Watching Lateline business now.... Dixon on there.... lies lies lies. The only Lie this scumbag doesn't make, is the straight one in bed at night......

in response to this comment:- ive found a good method to figure out if GD, MH or DC are lying....watch and see if their lips move. 100% foolproof!

psychogyro

29th May 2008, 15:38

well acars747.....thank you for strengthening our resolve....the more people like you bleet like stuck pigs the stronger our resolve. keep it up and wipe the nutella off your lips idi0t!

Anulus Filler

29th May 2008, 16:08

Geoff Dixon told 'The Australian' today...."They have every right to strike and I respect that," Mr Dixon told The Australian.

"But we have every right to try and protect our customer base and the profitability of the company and they should respect that."

"So I say, `Yeah, you can strike. That's your business.' Do they think we will just sit there and let them do this to our company?"

We will see what the shareholders think in a few months time

Toolpants

29th May 2008, 16:15

So he’s not going to let “THEM”. When he says “THEM” I guess he means "the staff."
When he says “Our Company” I guess "OUR" means Margaret and himself.

Sunfish

29th May 2008, 21:46

Anulus Filler, the shareholders won't feel any pain, nor will there be any profit downgrades until 2008/2009. The 2008 profit is locked in and there may be enough hollow logs full of cash (in an accounting sense) left around to produce a decent result in 2008/2009 financial year.

...So don't expect a procession of shareholders carrying flaming torches to storm QF management offices and drive a stake through Dixon's heart. The vampires will remain at the controls until you produce the silver bullet...which is a measurable downward change in QF's market share.

To put it another way, you need to get to a situation where the general public (and the flying public service) collectively say "Book me on anything except Qantas"

I've also been ruminating on why QF's Board and Management allowed this whole situation to develop over the last four or five years. Partly it's due to Board and Management narcissism - they have a natural proclivity to screw with people for the fun of it - hence Dixon's letter to Hamilton Island Residents, bottlers of Grange for Managers Christmas presents while not even sending you a post card and suchlike.

However they are intelligent people and I think that, not ever having worked in the bowels of an airline, or being "airline savvy" (example= not specifying the right floor for various airbuses, etc.) they made a number of classic mistakes.

First of all, they believed the Boeing and Airbus sales pitch about the Dreamliner and the A380, firstly about delivery dates, but the big one is about maintenance manhours per block hour, Airbus and Boeing will have sold them a big story about reduced maintenance costs.

Now of course that will be backed up by penalty payments, guarantees, etc. But these only go so far when your dispatch reliability goes tits up and buggers your reputation.

So anyway, four or five years ago, QF will have commissioned, if Boeing and Airbus hadn't done it for them, some very fancy computer modelling of their network, schedules and engineering workforce requirements for the next Ten years or so....and came to the conclusion that when these new birds arrived, a lot of LAME's were going to be surplus to requirements, even without factoring in a lot of outsourcing - which will have been under discussion for the past five years and was always going to happen, no matter what they have said in public.

So having reached the conclusion five years ago that they didn't need many of you going forward, their narcissistic side was let loose to deliberately try and make life so uncomfortable that as many as possible of you would leave voluntarily without costing QF much in redundancy payments. The rest of you would be squeezed, abused, bullied and cowed into submission so as to be willing to accept whatever new working arrangements were going to be put in place for the A380 and Dreamliner.

That's why QF's Board and Management labelled QF as a "Legacy Airline" - they were deliberately telling you you had no future and no skills worth anything to them.

That's why they publicly toyed with the Tullamarine overhaul staff, maybe outsourcing their jobs to China, maybe not depending on cost cutting - or not.....and then telling them that they could keep the work...for twelve months when they would look again at outsourcing...or not.

That's why they have f****ed you around for Eighteen months over your EBA, and they would do it for another Eighteen months if they could.

Have any of you ever seen a Board and Management more deliberately, coldly and ruthlessly contemptuous of it's staff? I haven't.

So what's happened to their cunning plan? A380 and Dreamliner are late, always was going to happen, so you are stuck running older aircraft which increased maintenance workload more than planned - that's why you are all on overtime all the time.

Then the APA bid didn't get up, so he can't f**k you all in private like he planned.

Johnny Howard didn't get re-elected, so they can't stamp you into whatever mould they want under AWA's for the A380 and Dreamliner.

When these new aircraft do arrive, mark my words, they will have a few "teething problems", which will be minor if they are lucky, but that will require an inordinate amount of engineering head scratching and labor to deal with.

If you want to know what happens when a bunch of narcissists plans an entry-into -service of new equipment, read about the BA LHR T5 fiasco elsewhere on PPrune.

Then there are rising fuel prices, that make sending an aircraft to China for maintenance and repair just that little bit more expensive.

Then there is the possibility of a Global recession and financial turmoil that might see the Aussie dollar vs. Yuan exchange rates go the wrong way from QF's perspective.

Then there is the possibility of war in the Middle East, which might also make outsourcing to China problematic.

All of these increase the business risk for QF.......but Mr. Dixon will have taken his bonuses and be long gone by the time these chickens come home to roost.

So much for the Board and Management looking after the Long Term value of the business.

P.S. It's a bit rich for Mr. Dixon to use the word "Respect" in any context at all.

sickofqf

29th May 2008, 22:57

Sunfish,

Great post. Spot on. Dixon and his board of 'industrial psychopaths' are only interested in themselves and will get to where they want by any means necessary.

Sad really isn't it that the share price has gone nowhere in the 8 years they've been screwing the rat. What a sensational job they have done in looking after the shareholders he likes to spew on about.

Ngineer

29th May 2008, 22:58

"This is as much a media war as an industrial war, and I’m afraid that today, di*ckson has won the battle. " Kotoyebe.

The more Dixon talks, the better for us. Remember he is a classic Union basher, and look what this did for the Howard gov. Every one who has spoken to me, asking what's going on, have'nt spoken very highly of what they have seen of him the last 24 hours. Remember also that there are 30000 odd employees of this company. They all have family and friends, so word of mouth travels pretty quick.

I think that Qantas fail to understand the EBA process. Mr Dixon has personally stated that a 3% wage policy for all employees has already been signed off by the board. I'm sorry but this is how exec remuneration is determined, not ours. We use an EBA process. Management seem to think this bargaining process is used to deliver a package that we must accept.

This now seems to be a personal, or emotive issue for Geoff for whatever reason. Of course he has a duty of care to the financial well being of Qantas, but it now seems that his issue will get in the way of this.

At the end of the day time is on the side of the LAME, as the longer this drags out, the more these issues will come to light. Any damage to the financial security of Qantas will be at the responsibility and peril of management who refuse to take part in the legal bargaining process of this country.

As for "management contributing more to this company than any bl@#dy (sic) union", he would'nt be saying that if the shareholders, who know alot better, accepted the APA bid. Or then again, maybe he would.

Collando

29th May 2008, 23:24

Their claim is out of order and we're not going to entertain it," he said. "We're prepared to wait this one out. We are not going to change our view on this. We've got the long-term future of the company in mind more than anything else and if it means that some of our passengers have some discomfort for a while, that will be the case. These people must know that whatever they do won't be enough for us to change our minds."
So another indication of how far he is prepared to go to paint us as the bad guys. He dosnt mind if the customers have to suffer for his egomaniac behavior as long as he wins his holy cause.

One engineer who spoke to The Australian said his base salary of $63,000 made bringing up his children and paying a mortgage in Sydney almost impossible. It was difficult for his wife to get a job because of the "extreme" shift work he was asked to do. "At any moment there are 5000 people cruising at high altitude and their lives depend on my work," he said.
His job had once been considered a highly skilled occupation deserving of a healthy salary, but he was now paid little more than the average wage.
Shortly after speaking to The Australian, the engineer was phoned by management and warned off talking to the media, he said.

So now we are not entitled to freedom of speech?

I encourage you all, call talkback radio,sms talkback radio,write a letter to the editor. The more we expose Dixons mistruths, the more of the whole story that gets out there,the better. This battle has to be won in the media.:ok:

up2us

30th May 2008, 00:17

yesterdays wash up,

Sure some international flights were not too delayed, however that doesn't mean all went well. A lot of form 500's were processed and some were very interesting to say the least, wether or not they see the light of day will remain to be seen, although I believe hard copy's were also raised just in case they got lost , or the computers crash ... or oil price goes higher o'night..... or..
As was mentioned some A/C got away without big delays, what about the others ? Well......

QF 63 to JNB etd 1000 left @ 1933 . 9 1/2 HOURS.

QF 31 to SIN/LHR etd 1655 left @ 2045. nearly 4 HOURS.

QF 1 to BKK/LHR etd 1700 left @ 2115 over 4 HOURS.

QF 11 to LAX etd 1320 left @ 2100 7 1/2 HOURS

I think the qf107 left about 5 hours late as well, with the hold items doubling in 2 weeks just because of o/t bans soon these sort of delays will be the norm without stopwork feedbacks.

I hope the senior managers and the board are pleased with their efforts cause I am extremely pleased with ours under these difficult conditions.

Pegasus747

30th May 2008, 00:28

Dont take any of this personally boys :)

Dixon never met a man he didnt want to bash!

thosecotos

30th May 2008, 01:02

To put it another way, you need to get to a situation where the general public (and the flying public service) collectively say "Book me on anything except Qantas"

Unfortunately, domestically at least, there isn't the capacity to offer a genuine alternative....QF still enjoy a relative monoply in Oz. VB flights already always mostly full (and we're apparently losing money(?)), so who else is there?

You guys are brave, hopefully some of VT will be as strong with negotiations approaching. Good luck!

Short_Circuit

30th May 2008, 01:05

Looks very much like little Dicko was bullied
at school every day and has grown up bitter
and twisted.
He has bought a gun and is going to get even
with everyone regardless of the cost.
We all know how it will end.:uhoh:

Collando

30th May 2008, 01:52

Would someone in the media ask Geoff Dixon how much an engineers pay would be, relative to what it was 2001 if he started tomorrow.

Answer
Our pay has increased 17% 1.7% a year
20% if we accepted 3%

How much was inflation over that period? 22%

If anyone in the media is reading this, please check this out.
This is why we are making a stand. He is manipulating the figures to his advantage of course. (37%)But the truth is out there. It is our base rate is what we are fighting for that has been eroded over the last ten years.
It may be correct that if you have worked for QANTAS for the last ten years the total package you have gone up is 37% if bonuses and grade increases are included but in real terms the base rate has only gone up 17%

blubak

30th May 2008, 02:14

Ok to talk but get the facts right-think a lot of people by now would be getting the idea that the facts are very 1 sided and if u want to have your view point well then you get told you are not allowed-maybe we need a list of do,s and dont,s.MMMM-Truth hurts sometimes but dont be put off-there is always a reward for the man who waits.
Remain calm,dont be intimidated and dont stoop to the level of the bullies that we have become accustomed to in the past few years.

The Black Panther

30th May 2008, 02:30

Reading these posts shows one obvious fact. Where is the bargaining?
We are under an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement whereby each side it allowed to bargain.

Where do we stand when the Company says "We are not moving. Qantas has a 3% wages policy and that's it" Doesn't quite fit the bill of bargaining does it?

Record profit last year, possibly another record profit 2007/08. I don't hear a profit downgrade. The coffers are full. Senior management remunerated. Fuel hedged. Fuel prices won't stay high forever (GD quoted and has dropped twice in last two days).

Bargain we will. Snag it, change it, move it, fly it, wipe it, screw it, adjust it, fix it. But just don't hurry it.

Bump cap, Form 500, Care report, safety glasses, vest, torch, tools, DR&Rs, MPAR, Safe form, Hazard report, Form 2000, Laptop, Work card, ....how do I carry all this stuff.
I will find away :ok:

vortsa

30th May 2008, 02:31

Qantas: Dixon Denies Buy-out Rumors

NOVEMBER 27, 2006. In response to some press reports, the Chief Executive Officer and Managing Director of Qantas Airways Limited, Mr Geoff Dixon, has said that in line with protocols set up by the Qantas Board, he had had no discussions with any member of the consortium looking at taking equity in Qantas or his future role, remuneration or equity in any new company.

Lies Lies Lies..... How can any one take a liars word...... so who is telling the truth now.........I can't believe he survived that one....... but have a feeling he won't be around this time next year.

Dr Itzfukt

30th May 2008, 02:47

To add to yesterdays delays ex Syd:

The QF1 dep at 2223.

The Qf31 at 2145.

The QF11 not until minimum today - over 20 hours late.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

sickofqf

30th May 2008, 02:54

Shortly after speaking to The Australian, the engineer was phoned by management and warned off talking to the media, he said.

Oh really? So it's OK for Geoff Dixon, an EMPLOYEE of Qantas to speak to the media but it's not OK for an engineer, an EMPLOYEE of Qantas to speak to the media.

WHY?

Is it a breach of the policy manual? Then perhaps HR should sack GEOFF for breaching the policy manual.

If any jumped up HR twerpette or half-wit manager tells me to stop talking to the media I'll ram a discrimination case so far up his/her back passage they won't have a motion for a year!!!
:mad:

sickofqf

30th May 2008, 02:58

A lot of form 500's were processed and some were very interesting to say the least,

they'll get buried like they always do if they're inconvenient.:yuk:

Fax 'em to the association using a NON-Qantas fax machine, they will use them as necessary and also they will know the correct 'official' people to send them to.

sickofqf

30th May 2008, 03:03

up2us said
QF 11 to LAX etd 1320 left @ 2100 7 1/2 HOURS

mate, it actually left at 0954 Friday ( today) according to qantas.com

a mere 21 hours late.

Yeah Geoff, a small delay there..........:D:D:D:D

Big Unit

30th May 2008, 03:06

The qf11 (OEH) was late out of an A check. Funny part was that A check work package was basically stripped bare (incl boro's) so the rest could be completed in LAX by the 6 syd guys (3 mech & 3 avionics) that are trying to ramp up the A checks over there. I think its time the fed sec brought our LA guys back. What do you think fed sec.

Geoff. Its time to start looking after your staff. Respect alone can go a long way.

wanty

30th May 2008, 03:19

Hold items across the fleet now over double what they were 2 weeks ago and we are only 2 weeks in to the overtime ban.

6 weeks from now we'll have delays on all flights, due to skippers taking 40 minutes to read through and asesss what all the defects are in the front of the Techlog on every flight. We won't have to do a bl00dy thing.

Imagine 12 weeks from now,the situation is going to be laughable.:=

PPM OUR GREATEST WEAPON,THANKS GEOFFREY.:ok:

Konehead

30th May 2008, 03:42

Just received the email below from a fellow LAME. Asked me to get it out there, so can anyone/everyone out there do some fact checking, amend where necessary, copy and paste this into an email and send it to everyone in their inbox?

Hi (names deleted to protect the innocent)

You may have heard the stoush in the media between Geoff Dixon and the union representing me, the ALAEA, and the ACTU.

I’d like to correct some of Geoff Dixon’s lies.

GD: "This morning in the four hours in Sydney we got just about every flight away with very slight delays,''
Fact: 56% on time. That’s down from 80 – 90%.
Tracked: 390
Departed: 380
Cancelled: 10
Delayed:
15-30 mins: 81
30-45 mins: 28
45+mins: 57
Source: http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airline/airlineScorecard.do?airline=qf&airlineQueryDate=2008-05-29 (http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airline/airlineScorecard.do?airline=qf&airlineQueryDate=2008-05-29).
Since when is a 45+ minute delay “very slight?” If you were 45 minutes late for a meeting, would you say, “Sorry, I’m very slightly late”?
Actual examples of “45+ minute delays”:
QF43 to Auckland: departed 2hrs 10 min late.
QF11 to LA: departed 7hrs 40min late.
QF31 to Singapore: departed 3hrs 50min late.
QF1 to London: departed 4+ hours late.

GD: “Qantas chief executive officer Geoff Dixon says most of the engineers earn $130,000 a year and are not the working poor.”
Fact: The most that many engineers can ever hope to earn is around $130,000, earned through up to 40 years service and/or extensive training. Only those engineers in the highest pay grade earn that much. Qantas has limited the number of engineers in that pay grade to only 5% of the total number, or 80 of a total 1600 engineers!
Fact: An engineer at Qantas starts on $53,000 p.a. base pay, with up to 44% in shift penalties and rostered overtime on top of that for the joy of working 12 hour days and nights in all weather, weekends and public holidays. That’s $76,000 p.a. total. By comparison, Virgin Blue and Jetstar, Qantas’ “low cost carrier” are paying their entry level engineers over $105,000 p.a.!
Fact: Based on information collated by the ALAEA (of which the vast majority of engineers are members), the average wage for a Qantas engineer is around $89,000, including shift penalties – still way behind the competition and far behind Mr Dixon’s claim of $130,000.

GD: “Since 2001 these engineers have had a 37 per cent pay increase overall”
Fact: Since 2001, we have had pay rises of 12%. In 2001 & 2002 we took an 18 month pay freeze. We have not had a pay-rise for two and a half years now. In 2003 – 2006 we received Geoff Dixon’s standard 3% pay rise. Four years X 3% = 12%. This is far behind both inflation, pay-rises received by comparative industries such as the utilities, transport and mining industries, and the broader community which has enjoyed unprecedented wage growth in the last decade.

GD: "If you take into account the offer that we made to them, the union accepted a deal with us in January, which was 3 per cent [pay rise] plus 1 per cent superannuation. They then decided not to put it to their membership and walked away from it."
Fact: The ALAEA spent over 15 months negotiating a deal which the union agreed to present to the members in the form of a summary, or “Heads of Agreement” (HOA). They presented the HOA to the members in a series of meetings around the country and recommended that we voted for it on the grounds that it was the best Enterprise Bargaining Agreement (of a total of eight) that had ever been negotiated. The members overwhelmingly rejected the HOA and raised serious concerns about it. I know, because I was at the meetings. Further, when the full text of the Agreement was presented to the union executive, the almost 100 page document differed in key areas to what had been negotiated, agreed and presented to the members in the HOA - a clear breach of trust. That’s when the ALAEA walked away from the offer.

Please do not believe this man. He has been very effectively crying wolf for years. He is a former journalist and knows his way around the media. He also wields a large advertising account which media corporations are afraid to lose if they do not give him positive coverage.

Please keep these Facts in mind whenever you see Geoff Dixon in the media.

Cheers

(Name deleted to protect the innocent)

vortsa

30th May 2008, 03:50

My spies tell me they are ramping up the increase in staff at all international line stations, so as to utilise the Aus. Lame's who are exempt from the bans,. This way they will be able to at least keep up with all the over due 'A' checks, they are actively looking for ame's /technicians to employ. They have to be able to hit the ground running at least 5 years experience, and up to 10 per line station.

Perhaps it is time to bring them home.

N.E.R.D.

30th May 2008, 03:54

A copy to Ewan Hannan at "The Australian" might be in order, then he can get his facts straight.

Or maybe Uncle Geoff is handing out lollies for reporters to help him along.;);)

:yuk::yuk::yuk:

Short_Circuit

30th May 2008, 03:55

Yes, it is time.

Bring them ALL home.

It's time to Bargain & Agree (EBA) this time geoff.

Newgen

30th May 2008, 04:25

Ok guys....it's my first post on pprune so be nice...

Just wanted to say how impressed I was yesterday with all (or should I say most) of my collegues. It wasn't just a stand for something just and deserved for all of us....a CPI adjustment to bring us back from a long way behind the 8-ball....but it was also a clear display to management, the media, pax, and whoever else cared to look or ask, that we are an intelligent, respectful and extremely professional lot.

I returned to my workplace at lunchtime to find a gaggle of security guards expecting a riot with the engineer/managers who stayed on the floor, but they were instead greeted by a bunch of professional engineers who took handovers without fuss and resumed normal duties under some pretty trying circumstances (and quite a few spot fires to extinguish left by the alternate workforce...but that's for a CROSS report and not this forum).

Well done everyone for both making a stand for what's right and for doing it in such a professional manner. Every pilot, cabin crew member, caterer, ramp worker and AME I spoke to yesterday was in 100% support of us and made me very proud.

If QF had a morale problem before...it's about to get a whole lot worse I feel.

Short_Circuit

30th May 2008, 04:50

Newgen
Great to hear about the professionalism of our LAMEs going back to our jobs
with due diligence after what was a stressful 4 hours meeting. (awaiting the lockout)

Just wonder if dixon had the guard dogs on standby, I would not put it past him. :}

vortsa

30th May 2008, 05:03

PTTSwitch

30th May 2008, 05:17

Vortsa, you are completely correct, why don't we have these guys come home from Line Stations. Why do Line Stations have exemptions?

Look at the workload that is being ramped up to line stations. Not just ramped up from what i hear, but a very steep ramp at that.

Can we have the Fed Sec explain to us why this exemption is in place? Just to clear up the point. I hope its not 'taboo', or 'not to be spoken about'.

astrokmr

30th May 2008, 05:31

Just wanted to add my thanks to the guys and girls in Syd, Bne and Mel who left work yesterday and today at the appointed times.

I know the fear factor would have been with each one of you as you made those steps out the gate as you tried not to think "what happens if this all goes to s..."?

So thank you for taking those steps and for conducting yourselves in such a professional manner when in front of the media and on your return to
the workplace. You have certainly made this QF non-Syd-Bne-Mel Lame very proud!:)

Short_Circuit

30th May 2008, 05:56

The LAME's have put out another & final olive branch to save Geoff
the embarrassment of all out war of his making, (and his pending ultimate defeat).

I suggest you grab it with both hands and come to the bargaining table
and leave the lies in the board room.

We want to resolve this and ramp up the company, not pull it down GROUNDING aircraft as you would do.

As employees & shareholders, we want to build on what we have created over 80 years of blood, sweat & tears.

OUR company.

We may not own large lumps of the shares,

but we own 100% its success. :)

Wobulator

30th May 2008, 06:12

As a long time pprune watcher, first time poster and ex HM redundant LAME, I wish each and every one of you the best of luck with your PIA. I too was approached in December to take up a position that, in the end, was to sc@b against you. I declined without hesitation.

It is fantastic to see some action, finally, from the LAME’s and support from the ALAEA and ACTU (with some Tech & Cabin Crew as well) for something that should have been done at least a decade ago.

The more I read up on the past of this CEO the more infuriating it becomes seeing how his lies are just water off a duck’s back.:mad::E

This just might be the scotchbrite that removes his Teflon coating and let some sh*t start to stick to this B* for all and sundry to see. Surely the shareholders can see this by now with the very little improvement in shares since his arrival. Only getting a reasonable gain with a setup that would have lined HIS pockets so well and, by the looks of things, destroy a once fantastic, World-Class Company.

Stick to the PPM and OT bans…..simple, legal and effective (but include the regular feedback meetings).

The Engineers I knew all had loyalty, pride and were totally professional. You still have that but not the morale. Keep the esprit de corps to each other and you will win through.

Good Luck!:ok:

Negative Feedback

30th May 2008, 06:58

Been following all this for a while.

Enterprise bargaining is about "bargaining" I'll accept 3% on one condition only:
- That my efficiency and productivity goes down by 2%.

2% less attendance
2% less night shifts
2% less defect resolution
2% more corporate emails read
2% less memos read
2% more hold items
2% more missed arrivals
2% more break times
2% more time calling 26666
2% more time to complete any tasks
2% more time ordering parts
2% more delays
2% longer to get any where
2% more time reading management sermons
2% more time to stop laughing at management sermons
2% more time to try and decipher management speak
2% more ink used in write ups
2% more added to my limit factors (always using manual limits as baseline of course)
etc. etc.

There is a caveat though. For each percentage rise in the pay of our managers above the 3% base I reserve the right to increase my rate of unproductivity by the same mount.

Enough silliness.

Most non airline people (ie the average punters) I know are aware of some action taking place but really don't have much of an opinion. The company line hasn't been effectively refuted. The info "Joe public" should know about isn't really getting there. e.g. DC looking like a dumbfounded goose during the staple expose' was great, most people had a comment about that. Not getting that feedback this time. Time to fire another arrow of some sort.

Its the right time. :ok:

indamiddle

30th May 2008, 07:30

some spectacular delays. my roster is getting stuffed up but the crew will put with the pain as we are with you all the way. QF11....brilliant

Dr Itzfukt

30th May 2008, 07:32

I wonder how the QF5 went today, heard there was a late call engine change last night. Already rescheduled from a 0950 departure this morning.

:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}

chanel1234

30th May 2008, 09:03

You Aussies don’t muck around, will be migrating down under with a couple of lads , look forward to joining the union, stick it to the man

delta 4

30th May 2008, 09:40

Word of advice to all........

Let the ALAEA talk to the media for a consistent union line. We all know how they can twist your words, you can see it every night on ACA or Today Tonight ( if you can stomach that crap).

This way we dont give GD or the media ammo to nail us on, with a loose word or phrase. Remember "loose lips, sink ships" in this case possibly our EBA campaign

WE will win this but there will be pain and DEFINATELY DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE QF media machine (propaganda department). They will come from left field and punch hard. :eek:

Hang tough guys, we WILL endure this, We WILL disgrace and shame them all by being professional and stand proud, do it for each other and get our 5%.:D:D:D

The stakes are very high and the union have provoked reaction from QF with their announcement about grounding a/c (clunkers that should have gone ages ago) and redunancies.:yuk:

Attack is often the best defence and QF/GD are not IMHO are reacting to the ALAEA, we look like we want to be reasonable and negotiate yet GD is foaming at the mouth in full view of the media

I dont think they fully realise the resolve of the union memebers.......bring it on:E

D4

Short_Circuit

30th May 2008, 09:41

To all the air crew,

I am sorry that, because of geoff, you are kicked from pillar to post with your work schedules.

However, we will not compromise your's or the pax safety to get you out on schedule.

SAFETY BEFORE SCHEDULE.

PS

Take 5 (%). its Qantas Policy after all.

PSS

Qantas do not have spare engines anymore, have to lease them from British Airways or Boeing!!! :cool:

Think it may be a wait for one to come to AUS. Thanks Mr Harris, he he he he.

thosecotos

30th May 2008, 10:01

Fact: An engineer at Qantas starts on $53,000 p.a. base pay, with up to 44% in shift penalties and rostered overtime on top of that for the joy of working 12 hour days and nights in all weather, weekends and public holidays. That’s $76,000 p.a. total. By comparison, Virgin Blue and Jetstar, Qantas’ “low cost carrier” are paying their entry level engineers over $105,000 p.a.!

Sorry but this is not a fact. Neither VB or JQ offer over 100k for entry level dual licence, and we even have type rated guys who they refuse to pay as LAME's.

Here's a fact: The reason a QF engineer starts on 76k is because our fore bearers at AN and QF voted for these b*ll**** grading systems 10 years ago, wrecking it for the the next generation who are now the ones feeling the financial pinch.

acslame

30th May 2008, 10:03

Its amazing how many delays have now become reschedules !
Yet more QF "rubbery" figures.
Funny (sad) really, all they are doing is kidding themselves.
Call it what you want, your aircraft didn't go when you wanted it to
And your network is fast becoming a mess
And to the tekkies, thanks for your support.
You put a smile on my face today with stories of your dealings
with the "alternate workforce".

Yeah, take 5 (%)

wingers

30th May 2008, 10:21

i never thought i would see the day that i am ashamed to be a LAME,

thugs , intimidation, threats , i will resign and move on.

To all... i wish the vey best, the agenda has changed, it is now a ACTU agenda.

I really feel sad and totally, bewildered, never will have anything to do with this business.

So i suppose the ALAEA has won , a sad day when all i want is to work in peace.

have no fear will never post again

Red Baron

30th May 2008, 10:28

Well my email and mobile has been running hot after watching on TV and listening to radio the reports on how your two days of 4 hour stoppages went. Oh my God! Delay's, delay's and more delay's, what drugs is GD on if he thinks that these delay's have been, MINOR? :eek:

What hasn't been good to hear and read is some of you chose not to show up for the meetings that the ALAEA had organised and chose to 'go walk about' during that time. This is a time for you all to stand UNITED and not to go grocery shopping at your local shopping centre! Wake up to yourselves and look at the BIG picture.

What is the ALAEA going to do with these types of members, I know what I'd like to do to them! :ouch: :E

Keep the pressure on fella's and will someone teach those incompetent managers that the aircraft actually moves better with the chokes are out! Hah Hah Hah! What a laugh, can't wait to see that one on Australia's Funniest Home Video. :)

str022

30th May 2008, 10:31

They found a busted canon plug on the strut and it is nil stock of course, Hell it was not even in code. Boeing said something like 3 days before it makes it down to Syd.
Pax are now waiting at Hotels around town as it was due to depart at 1555 today, i guess they will have to wait a little bit longer.
The scary thing is that there is plenty more left in reserve.......

:ugh::ugh::ugh::mad::mad::mad::ugh::ugh::ugh:

dr skydrol

30th May 2008, 10:32

What a show of solidarity on Thursday. A very impressive meeting by a strong and intelligent ALAEA leadership. To the guys on outstations we all walked in Syd. Lames,Snr Lames, DMM's, Maint Watch. The security guards at the gates were their attempt to frighten us, but we held our heads high and greeted them with smiles and returned with bigger smiles than when we left. How impressed were the pilots with our actions when we returned.
Stick together and we will win. Just as they did in PERTH. God bless you all.
Thanks ALAEA FED EXEC"S.:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok: They have it under control.

Short_Circuit

30th May 2008, 11:11

They found a busted canon plug on the strut and it is nil stock of course,

If only they knew how to read the Boeing SWPM..........:bored:

There is always an alternate part number. :rolleyes:

Pity it takes a real engineer to know how to fix aircraft or find a part number. :p

Give it to me, I will find an equivalent in 2 minutes, OR LESS.
BACC63BP....... peace of p!ss :8

Did it cause a delay. d!ckheads. Pay peanuts, get monkeys,

OH, paid $200,000.00 still got monkeys. :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

PS

My apprentice could have found a part number for you if you asked him to, but I guess pride got in the way of real maintenance.. :=

PSS

next time you push back, pull the chocks out :\

PSSSSSS

When you sign the RETURN TO SERVICE, the signiture means ALL the defects have been actioned IAW the Maintanance Manual.

When unsigned items fly with an aircraft the aircraft IS UNSERVICEABLE....

ie. unsafe to fly. Now, who did the wrong thing!!!!

division1

30th May 2008, 12:42

In trying to determine the extent of GD's spin and lies,
a quick reality check of my own situation.
In the last 10 years, lv10a to lv13, my pay increased by 32%,
http://www.alaea.asn.au/plainText/AwardsAndAgreements.php
The national wage increases at the minimum rates was 37%
http://www.workplaceinfo.com.au/nocookie/conditions/nat_increase.htm
and the inflation/c.p.i. rate increased 26.6%+4.2% to date= 30.8%
http://www.oesr.qld.gov.au/queensland-by-theme/economic-performance/prices/tables/cpi-all-groups-annual-bris-aus/index.shtml

That now irks me, my sub par pay rises really do suck,
seeing i've gained 9 additional ratings in that time,
and who knows how many add on car214 training bits and pieces.
The jokes on me, seems like these additional services have all been gratis.

Like someone pointed out, the shame is catching up with him.
Our ten year total does look like the annual rate for executive pigs.
Karma at work? I hope so.

Silmarillion

30th May 2008, 13:37

Thursday at Syd, besides their inefficiecies at defect rectification they couldn't even carry out the basic transit checks.

At least 4 aircraft at Int didn't have their engine oils checked up to 2 hours after the aircraft had landed, if at all.

One 744, Pax off loaded to terminal, 4 engines run, oils checked, Pax re-boarded, delay approx 1.5 hours. All this for the sake of one standard check even our Apprentices know has to be done.

Well Done SC@B Labour, DIXON, COX, HARRIS and Co if it wasn't for the vigilance of our A.M.E's YOU could have had a major incident/disaster on YOUR hands. I'd love to hear Dixon's spin doctors get it him out of that mess.

Thanks to all of our A.M.E's from this L.A.M.E.

UP D Date

30th May 2008, 14:11

well said mr wobbles,
we must always work iaw our ppm & amm, good to hear the base boys are being so diligent!! and i do believe the 63bp is a bayonet connex, hardly a firewall receptacle...

up2us

30th May 2008, 16:31

Thanks Dr Itz & sickofqf for clarifying the qf11, I should have said 'estimated' time of dep. That is a good delay.I wonder what spin will be put out by management re all these delays.

Nudlaug

30th May 2008, 16:47

I don't care what anyone says or what the media and GD spins

The 2 things that will bring Qantas (or would any other airline) to it's knees real quick is a complete overtime ban and work to (Qantas's own laughable) rules and procedures. Isn't it awsome? All you have to do is follow (exactly and to the letter) our own procedures and rules and instead of doing crazy overtime have a beer, bbq, whatever else you fancy with your friends or family. That in itself, if done by everyone, will totally screw this airline, utterly and completely on so many levels. It takes a few weeks, months to ramp up, but it will completely f**k the whole system, you can see the effects already, give it time and the whole ugly, smelling beast will come to a real noisy screeching halt.
Finally most of the "companymen" stopped being heroes, saving those incompetent managers by masking any shortfalls, inefficiencies, lack of manpower, training and unworkable procedures by working crazy amounts of overtime and bending the rules to make the system work.
We all come to work, give it our most dilligent best day of work, put all our skills and training to good use and work exactly to rule and procedure, and then go home and spend some quality time with our family, it's almost a relief and a holiday. And by doing so the system slowly collapses. Wonderful! :D
We wouldn't even need official industrial action (although it's good that we have it) to do it, those imbeciles are handing us the very procedures to destroy the whole system, it will cost them tens/hundreds of millions to deal with it, it's not happing overnight, but every day longer will cost them more, and it goes exponentially, if we keep this up, they lose, no matter what they do or say, just watch
Not to mention that i won't endanger my fellow work mates with infectious cold symptoms anymore, if i feel the first tiny signs of those nasty bacterias encroaching, i do the right thing and stay home sick to fully recover, thank god there will be someone working overtime to replace me..... oh hang on.....
:cool:

Sunfish

30th May 2008, 19:46

PAF, why don't you piss off and go drop some bombs on women and children. This is a discussion of something that has nothing to do with you.

wanty

30th May 2008, 20:51

You Aussies don’t muck around, will be migrating down under with a couple of lads , look forward to joining the union, stick it to the man

Chanel1234, none of us want to do this and I mean none. We were only talking tonight at smoko about what a sad state of affairs this whole silly business is.

99.9% of us thrive on getting on time departures and it's in our blood to fix things but the shear arrogance of this board and particularly G D!ckson has worn people down to the point where "EVERYONE" is now saying enough is enough.

We only want a fair deal,we all have families to feed and mortgages etc and we are all sick of the lies from GD and the board about yet another new reason why we must tighten our belts while the board line thier pockets in thier ivory towers.

No one on the board has the nerve or guts or wisdom to launch a takeover or muster a vote of no confidence against GD.If only 1 person on the board would come down on the floor and take a REAL look at how hard we work and see for themselves the real contribution we make to this company.Sadly, this company is going to have one mighty big fall.

Sunfish

30th May 2008, 21:10

You are effectively all talking the same thing: Recognition of your contribution to the company.

Unfortunately narcissists don't do recognition.

cpiom

30th May 2008, 22:36

Big Unit

30th May 2008, 23:09

cpiom. Good one d!ckhead.:E:}

employes perspective

30th May 2008, 23:26

QF's biggest problem will be when all this is finished,the guys and girls will get use to not working OT,getting there lives back,saying to each other ha i've learn't to live without OT this is great.
Then it will be a case of we need to employee more arms and legs,but which engineer in there right mind would want to work for an outfit like this.
The management seem to be digging themselves a very deep hole...:eek:

Sunfish

30th May 2008, 23:31

cpiom, since you have only just joined, you might like to read the other crap PAF has posted before you give your opinion....and I'm not a LAME.

Wingers:

i never thought i would see the day that i am ashamed to be a LAME,

thugs , intimidation, threats , i will resign and move on.

To all... i wish the vey best, the agenda has changed, it is now a ACTU agenda.

I really feel sad and totally, bewildered, never will have anything to do with this business.

So i suppose the ALAEA has won , a sad day when all i want is to work in peace.

have no fear will never post again

.....I think we have just lost one troll identity, watch for others to appear.

AEROMEDIC

31st May 2008, 01:17

PAF,

Now THAT'S a strange comment. You obviously don't understand unionism.

Here's a tip.......... Don't comment on things you don't understand.

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Negative Feedback

31st May 2008, 01:42

Well, well, well. The true qualities of a "professional" LAME shine through!! In fact this forum is littered with them. If you have no adequate come back for what somebody has said you ignore them, if they don't agree with your view you defame them. I worry about the a/c I fly on, do you treat the defects, pilots and cabin crew the same way, with such malaise and greater than god attitude??
You are all showing your true and unprofessional style.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Yes there are few vegetables in this garden and you are certainly a fine example.
The problem with you grenade tossers is you always fail to back up your arguments in any way shape or form. I worry about aircraft I fly in to, especially if there are people associated with its act of flight with your dismissive attitude. Greater than God?? Must have a unfulfilled deity complex (are you jealous?) or a manager wannabe.

True and unprofessional style? I detest that term 'professional", so over used for the wrong intent. Can you explain what you really mean? Can you do it with out referring to a book?

For the record I treat my job and my responsibilities very, very seriously, even when in the course of carrying out my duties I find people including other staff, crew or passengers intensely disagreeable. It makes no difference to the quality of my work or the effort I put in to obtain the best possible outcome.... every time and always. To think I would do otherwise is an insult and I take great exception to your assertion. You did say "You are ALL showing ......."

However this is just a forum:hmm:

The grenade is back in your court, tosser.
Ooops I meant I too say, I toss the grenade back to you.:)

FMU

31st May 2008, 02:20

“A” checks (all checks) have just got a whole lot longer-
Read the Qantas Engineering Maintenance Inspection Policy ref QEPM 3-10-037
Applicable to Heavy Maintenance and Aircraft Customer Services including Base and Line Maintenance.
Make sure you record those Clearance Inspections. Note: A Clearance Inspection cannot be delegated to an AME.
QEPM 3-10-037
QEPM 3-10-037
QEPM 3-10-037
QEPM 3-10-037
QEPM 3-10-037
QEPM 3-10-037
QEPM 3-10-037

upsidefront

31st May 2008, 04:36

Hi PAF

I PMed this to you to be sure you read it. It is also posted for all to see so that you can not cry foul and say you are being attacked personally.

It is clear from your posts that you are (used to be?) a military aviator of some sorts. I salute, applaud and thank all military types out there for putting their lives on the line to make this country safe.

It takes a special kind of person to fly a fast jet in a "hot zone", knowing there are numerous people on the ground and in the air with missiles aimed at your jet pipes. Whether you fly fast jets, helicopters or transport does not matter, the risks are the same. The reason why it seems to work is that the military is based on a culture of "SIR YES SIR" and whatever the highest ranking officer said goes, no questions asked. If you wish to not comply there are ways and means of dealing with that ie. court marshall and so on. The military is no place for the individual and thats why it runs like clockwork.

I can therefore understand that it must be hard for you to look at the Q and see that it does not operate like clockwork. In fact it looks like chaos most days. From the posts I have made, you can clearly see that I am a militant unionist and I know that it is at odds with your point of view. I will be the first to admit that the union protects the weak and holds back the strong. It does however also give a voice to the small people out there so that big corporations can't just walk over them.

There's a thread running on pprune about RAAF pilots leaving at the moment. I think these people are voting with their feet as you suggested, if you don't like the conditions. There are many pilots left, I am sure, who like flying fast jets that much, that they stick around and eat the crappy conditions with a hope of these improving some time.

Now, many of the LAME's I know, myself included, thrive on the challenge of seeing a jumbo bucket of bolts arrive at the gate with numerous defects. We enjoy the challenge of applying our knowledge and skill to see the bird flying again and on time. We enjoy it that much that we are sticking it out in the hope that the conditions improve. More than waiting we are doing something about it. I know you do not agree with our actions but you don't have to.

This thread is a discussion/info forum for the Q LAME EBA. You do not have to agree with the views and you are entitled to your own (opposing) view. This thread is not about whether we are right or wrong and therefore you can not change the LAME's point of view.

I ask that next time you post you bear this in mind. I will not try to tell you how the military is run or should run. (I have no idea and don't care) I ask you to please not tell us that our actions should be criminal and so on. We are dealing with our issues the way we we see fit. It is still legal for us to do so.

You will have the opportunity to say "Told you so" when it all goes south. I hope the LAME's don't say it when they win.

Stand strong LAME

ALAEA Fed Sec

31st May 2008, 05:50

Is there some one familiar with the operation and agreement between ALAEA and Qantas that excludes the inclusion of Line station engineers?
Why are they exempt?
Is it no mans land?
Taboo?
Not to be spoken about?
If I wanted to shut down the international operation I would bring them home, Then if the company had enough manager/scabs to base around the world there would be fewer to certify back here in Aus.

Two fold result and few engineers affected, best possible result and those coming back would not be without pay they can resume their normal duties back here in Aus.

Please enlighten us why this is not being done?

Thanks for asking Vortsa. Without answering each part one of your questions individually I will just ramble a bit and hope it makes sense.

We're fully aware of the moves the airline are making to transfer work overseas. We know of the LAX workloads and I have spoken to our Rep up there, suspect LHR would be getting busier. SIN neddys may have some work thrown their way but due to limited ground time will be of little use. If you happen to know anyone in SIN or LHR let them know of our situation if they already don't.

Can we call them home? Maybe, they are on secondments. It will remain up our sleeve along with other tricks such as the move to 8 hour rosters. Do we need to bring them back now? I don't think so. Our members have been patient, they will continue to remain so and we will slowly start winding in the screws one slow step at a time. We don't want to shut down the International operation, we just want to be taken serious when we negotiate, we want a decent wage and an honest management team.

I don't think overtime restrictions for our overseas members are too far off. It is not taboo and we can talk about it. Just out of curiousity, Can somebody please advise me of the best time in UTC to call for stopwork meetings in SIN? I understand many aircraft transit through at the same time.

cheers

dr skydrol

31st May 2008, 06:45

Hello brothers,
For those wondering why we aren't doing further restrictions yet,DON"T WORRY just relax and strap yourselves in for the ride. I was at the stopwork meeting in Syd on Thursday and rest assured our OT bans are working a treat.Everything was explained but I won't go into detail the trolls are listening. For those of you Knockers who thought our union was being run by a bunch of industrial phsycopaths with personal agendas you couldn't be further from the truth. I left not just with a great sense of solidarity from my fellow members (it was standing room only with continual applause), but the fact I know these guys (our fed exec) have this full under control and every move they make they have scrutinised by their legal dept to ensure their members will not be punished by Mr Howards HR laws and QF.
DON'T STRESS they have a hell of a lot up their sleeves with Zero pain to Lame's but much pain to a company that is disrespectful and nasty.
This is the first time in my career that I can say I am proud to be an ALAEA member.:ok: :ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

wanty

31st May 2008, 07:08

This is the first time in my career that I can say I am proud to be an ALAEA member.:ok: :ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

Been thinking the very same thought myself of late. Also left the Melbourne feedback meeting believing we have plenty of ammunition we haven't even used yet.

Scabs have every reason to be concerned,thier names are now out in the open.

Heard of one melb DMM (B WH...) who stayed at work during the stoppage. This same DMM needed representation years ago after crunching a plane in to a hanger and nearly lost his job,who was it who stood by your side during this time BW ???

Thats right,it was the association,the ALAEA. The very same mob your now trying to screw.

SHAME,SHAME,SHAME.:=

Dockie

31st May 2008, 07:57

I've been told today that MB [The Snake] is sending a Melbourne Heavy Maintenance line to John Hollands [the old Ansett hangar] and sending 30 dock LAMES to ACS to fix all the hold items. I,m looking forward to it, because everyone knows what happens when you send a dockie to fix a line maintenance aircraft. We fix everything and I mean everything. We will of course do everything strictly to the AMM after we have read all the local procedures manual and all the other relevent information. Anything that is out of limits according to the AMM will of course need changing or an EA raised. As I said I am really looking forward to it.:)

HotDog

31st May 2008, 08:02

upsidefront, I must applaud you on on your very lucid missive to PAF. Immaculate spelling and punctuation! Only wish some (most) of your brethrens would demonstrate the same skills when voicing their opinions on this forum. However, allow me to quote you. This thread is a discussion/info forum for the Q LAME EBA. You do not have to agree with the views and you are entitled to your own (opposing) view. I'm not taking sides but that is exactly what PAF is doing. As an ex LAME, I hope you do get your 5% but some of the rhetoric on this thread will not garner much support in you favour.

stiffnut

31st May 2008, 09:25

The lames are banning overtime, we have not got enough people to fix our ageing fleet, what do we do, i've got an idea, lets create more managers, that'll fix it, what chance have we got when we are run by such unimaginative morons. We do not need to try to make things hard for the company during this dispute, they are doing it for themselves, eventually they will be discovered and hopefully we can return to the good old days when we were respected throughout the world as the benchmark for aircraft engineering.

The Black Panther

31st May 2008, 09:58

“To date, we have not experienced any significant issues as a result of the union’s overtime bans,” (Dixon. smh.com.au 28May08)

Word from our brothers at Brisbane International Terminal.
All customer airline transits have been relinquished to customers. That's right BIT engineering cancelled for tonight!!!
The entire night shift crew have been directed to get OGT (Hgr 2) fixed ...that apparently has some serious flight control rigging problems.

First question. Refer to quote above. When has such a significant decision been made to impact on customers including Royal Brunei, Malaysian, Thai, and Air New Zealand? Oh that's right Geoff, O/T bans are having little effect.

Safety. I know the international guys are good operators but is it wise pulling guys off line who are more accustomed to servicing requirements and application of MEL's and ATP's etc then throwing them into a flight control rigging defect. Sounds like schedule before safety to me.

I am sure they will follow the AMM to the tee and if unfamiliar seek advice. In addition to taking care with such an unfamiliar task. Decisions like this appear to be motivated by revenue and not safety. Why not wait until the heavy guys return on there normal shift?

ALAEA and CASA are been advised as you read.

PIOT Bord

31st May 2008, 10:31

“To date, we have not experienced any significant issues as a result of the union’s overtime bans,” (Dixon. smh.com.au 28May08)

Spare a thought for our Perth Brothers, they have had a very busy day trying to cope with those insignificant issues that Geoff was talking about. Qantas Domestic departures over the entire day averaged 1 hour 21 min late. That does not include the 4 cancelled flights.

To you, Geoff, this is of no concern because you were not inconvenienced, only Qantas passengers. Unfortunately for them, they could not dump Qantas to catch a British Airways flight like you did. What was your quote again Geoff? Something like 'I don't care if passengers get disrupted, I'm not giving the engineers anything'.

Your leadership is on display, it's not a pretty sight!

QF22

31st May 2008, 10:39

G'day Fed Sec
The QF guys at SIN are pretty busy from 1800-2300 S'pore time, so thats about 10:00- 15:00 UTC.

During this time they have the QF6,QF10,QF51-52, QF5, QF9 to name a few, although the QF schedule has gone out the window of late, and flights come and go at all hours.

May I suggest you target the A330 services bcoz SIAEC cannot certify for these, but SIA can cover thr B744s. I am not so familiar with the A330 flights but the QF51/52 transit is definitely one approx 1930-2110 S'pore time. Also the flight to Perth QF77-78 I think, and there is another 330 service to Adelaide I believe.

I am sure a quick check of the QF timetable will provide the necessary info.SIAEC have been put on standby to cover QF 744s, but they can't cover the A330s. I think there is only 4 QF guys with A330 coverage at SIN and the manager is not one of them. I don't know if all the QF LAEs at SIN are members of the ALAEA, as some have been there many years, and some are local contractors.

Good Luck to you and all the ALAEA brothers with this PIA.

The_King

31st May 2008, 11:39

QF668Adelaide 09:45 12:53 Departed
QF1074Broome 09:55 10:04 Departed
QF580Sydney 11:45 14:15 Departed
QF668Adelaide 09:45 12:53 Departed
QF580Sydney 11:45 14:15 Departed
QF1942Alice Springs 12:10 14:13 Departed
QF598Brisbane 12:35 14:35 Departed
QF802Melbourne 13:00 17:17 Departed
JQ6802Melbourne 13:00 17:17 Departed
QF1922Ayers Rock 13:20 14:40 Departed
QF476Melbourne 13:40 15:43 Departed
QF1894Kalgoorlie 13:50 16:40 Departed
QF592Adelaide 14:00 Cancelled
QF476Melbourne 13:40 15:43 Departed
QF1894Kalgoorlie 13:50 16:40 Departed
QF582Sydney 14:10 16:20 Departed
QF1916Karratha 14:25 15:38 Departed
QF768Melbourne 15:15 Cancelled
QF768Adelaide 15:15 17:28 Departed
QF1814Port Hedland 15:35 17:20 Departed
QF566Sydney 16:15 Cancelled
QF718Canberra 16:25 16:54 Departed
JQ653Melbourne(Avalon) 17:20 17:47 Departed
QF594Brisbane 17:35 17:52 Departed

I could go on copying and pasting but you get the idea.

Big Unit

31st May 2008, 12:17

Sleep well tonight geoff. :E:E:E:E

acslame

31st May 2008, 12:20

Man ,i tell ya
Today was just delay, delay ,delay sorry I mean
resched, resched , resched!
Funny thing is , I didn't need to do anything.
I just let the lack of spares, bodgy out sourced maint
and the dumb ass adoc navigator do it for me!
Trolls, please tell you seniors about this post
because today was all their doing!
Are you starting to get it?
I hope so because you should have listened to your staff
instead of being yes men and looking after yourselves.
I haven't even started a full work to rules yet.
when we do it will just be devistating!

division1

31st May 2008, 19:46

I'd like to hear some of the antics that went on during the
lames break for the meetings.
I've heard some beautys, like the releasing to service with
unactioned pilot reports more than once:=, the famous chock
incident:D , and the buffoon asking the belt loader dude where
to plug in the headset:ooh:, and where should he walk:yuk:.

Seems most of them have been identified now, and the scum that
still hold union membership should be terminated forthwith.
Funny thing so many of these turds required the alaea to pull them
out of the **** before, who is going to represent them when they
next get caught out.

nuked

31st May 2008, 19:54

Sunfish wrote "PAF, why don't you piss off and go drop some bombs on women and children. This is a discussion of something that has nothing to do with you"

Their are a great many people in the military who would disgusted in your opinion of what serving personal are about, bomb women and children... you care more about money then you obviously care about people who have and continue to put their lives on the line. And yes, it does have something to do with him and everybody else who belongs to this forum, PAF and thousands of other serving members have died so that we can enjoy freedom of speech in this country, and that means that they can say what ever they please, whether you like it or not. There are countries where this isn't possible, where the rule of law is based on thuggery and brow beating the individual... maybe that's where you belong.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." is one of the founding statements in a democracy, the right of ALL men and women to freedom of speech, it's the cornerstone of our society. When only the thugs can speak, when the individual is excluded because his opinion differs from yours, then it simply means that you have lost ALL valid arguments for your line of reasoning and we will all be dragged down to a living hell.

It's easy to be a coward and a bully when you can be anonymous.

chemical alli

31st May 2008, 23:46

nuked ,as the movie line goes. I neither have the time nor the patience to justify myself yadda yadda yada

Sunfish

1st Jun 2008, 01:22

Nuked, I'm sorry if you are offended. I've got six years service myself. In my opinion PAF has nothing relevant to contribute, he just writes the same stuff time and again, occasionally throwing in a few red herring references to economics from an old textbook.

To save others the time, I generally take it on myself to confute the economic rubbish he spouts.

His latest ravings suggest that it is criminal for LAMES to disrupt the plans of travellers, but he fails to follow through to the logical conclusion that if it is criminal for LAMES to disrupt things, then it must also be criminal for Management to disrupt things.

cartexchange

1st Jun 2008, 01:39

Sydney International on Sunday, 01 June 2008 for Flight QF11

Flight No. To Scheduled Departure Actual / Estimated Departure
QF11 Los Angeles 13:20 21:30 Estimated

8 hour delay so far.......and all those missed connecting flights......this is one costly very costly delayed departure.....

Flugbegleiter

1st Jun 2008, 01:49

QF11 is a big delay, but....

Sunday, 1 June 2007

QF1: Scheduled Departure: 1700h
Estimated Departure: 0730h (Mon) !!!!

Woops! Any stories, guys?

speedbirdhouse

1st Jun 2008, 01:58

QF 11 two days ago left a day late with massive resultant disruptions EX LAX.

Keep up the pressure boys.:ok:

Assertions that QF's schedules are back on track couldn't be further from the truth.........

www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/05/30/business/AS-FIN-COM-Australia-Qantas-Strike.php

wanty

1st Jun 2008, 02:18

Looking for some bean counters out there who know what it costs per minute or hour late, both in airport charges and lost revenue dollars for any and all (DELAYED),lol(RESCHEDULED FLIGHTS) both in Domestic and International levels.

Anyone care to do some number crunching and share it with the rest of us ?????

employes perspective

1st Jun 2008, 03:37

no wonder dicko wants to retire 5% of aircraft/routes,he needs all the aircraft he can get:D

POT100

1st Jun 2008, 03:52

As a member of the association i am very happy with the way things are going...The OT bans will take effect no doubt about that..
BUT I really would wish that someone from Bexley would publicly counter Dixons lies!!!
The public has seen the ACTU president outside SDT surrounded by our members shouting to be heard...
GD is being calmly interviewed in a boardroom or studio spouting his lies to the nation......'$130k per yr' , '30%plus wage increase since 2001' and no one is counteracting any of this!!!..
What the hell is the public gonna think??...
There is no doubt that GD and QF are winning the media battle, and that my brothers, will start to count more and more as this battle continues and more and more public are pissed around..
I just hope that the association has many more tricks up their sleeves..coz we're gonna need them!!!

vortsa

1st Jun 2008, 04:03

What was Dixon earning in 2001, I have a feeling he has probably had a 200% increase since then and that is being conservative. He would find it hard getting a job after Qantas, but look fwd to him proving me wrong..... hope he starts looking soon.

acslame

1st Jun 2008, 04:15

Speaking of liars ( incompetent fool or whatever else you want to call him)
Has anyone seen MH lately?
Normally he loves to be seen and take credit for other peoples hard
work but I haven't head jack from him .
Could it be that he is distancing himself from DC in the
hope that he will fill DC's position when the inevitable happens?
Now that would really suck!!!!
Talk about out of the frying pan into the fire!!
Any theories gents?

Redstone

1st Jun 2008, 04:45

I would think M has trouble on his own doorstep to deal with. One thing is for sure though, if he made promisses to Cox about what he could or could not do to the LAMEs that he is not now delivering on, he will be on thin ice.

Flugbegleiter

1st Jun 2008, 07:13

From today's Sydney Morning Herald (01/06/08):
JPMORGAN'S research arm has provided Qantas's chief executive, Geoff Dixon, with more ammunition in his fight against the union movement, by warning that the airline could post a $1 billion full-year loss if oil prices hit $US200 a barrel.The problem is, NO ONE CARES anymore! Firstly, I believe they are still crying wolf (read the full article and you will see why (http://business.smh.com.au/broker-backs-qantas-with-forecast-of-1-billion-loss-20080530-2jwi.html)). Secondly, Qantas has lost all its goodwill from staff. While things were very, very good over the last few years, we have still pretty much got F*All. Even if times look to be bad, I would NOT take another bloody wage freeze. We've done that before and got nothing in return.

So screw you red roo. Give these guys their well-deserved pay increase! A pay cut from GD alone could finance it. The difference between 3% and 5% would be no more than a $2 Million increase per year. Compared to the massive profits of the last few years, that is NOTHING. Also, Qantas is saving a FORTUNE because of the new cabin crew EBA. They can afford it.

wanty

1st Jun 2008, 07:34

Secondly, Qantas has lost all its goodwill from staff. While things were very, very good over the last few years, we have still pretty much got F*All. Even if times look to be bad, I would NOT take another bloody wage freeze. We've done that before and got nothing in return.

Qantas Don't know the meaning of and have never practiced good will to anyone but thier executives.

I for one,would now rather they go down the path of Ansett, than offer 1 more iota of good will again towards them. Even if this means my own job.

acslame

1st Jun 2008, 08:07

If oil / jet fuel hits $200 a barrel then it does so for all, even those
airlines that have done a better job of hedging than qf .
The reality of the matter is that people are not going to stop traveling.
Even if they decide that they wont fly and will jump in there car, the cost
increase will be the same if you fly or drive.
Bottom line is that everything will go up in price from food to AIRLINE
tickets. And believe me QF won't loose a cent
Geoff has already put his prices up and will do so again.
I still want my 5% and wanty is right, I have no more good will.
I am tired of being constantly lied to and quite frankly I, like a lot
of other people am only still here in the hope that QE will turn the
corner and once again be the department its employee were proud
to be a part of.
Time is however running out 'cause I am getting really sick of the
bull****

employes perspective

1st Jun 2008, 08:19

$200 a barrel,lets be realistic here the world wide economy is slowing ,don't be surprised if it gets back down to $70 a barrel soon,and the only thing that would take it that high would be a boom in the world economy,in witch case Qantas will be positioned to make a killing as Asia is fast becoming the engine room of the world economy,either way they won't be losing.

Short_Circuit

1st Jun 2008, 08:34

QF1: Scheduled Departure: 1700h
Estimated Departure: 0730h (Mon) !!!!

Woops! Any stories, guys?
Its all down to NO O/T to pull them out of the sh!t... :{

Nothing more sinister that that.

There are a lot of these MEGA delays out of SYD BASE, just not enough people.

They have been let go to the other airlines. :ugh:

employes perspective

1st Jun 2008, 08:43

what are u talking about man

rmm

1st Jun 2008, 08:48

$200 a barrel,lets be realistic here the world wide economy is slowing ,don't be surprised if it gets back down to $70 a barrel soon

From The Australian, May 23rd.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23741779-23349,00.html?from=public_rss

BOEING believes oil prices will come back to a longer-term trend of $US70-80 a barrel.

The US aerospace giant does not itself analyse fuel trends but said the long-term view of its advisers was that the oil price would decrease.

The Black Panther

1st Jun 2008, 09:14

I think we need not be worrying about which direction the price the oil price goes. We have seen a few armageddon predictions before. The millennium bug (fizzer), the green house effect (now it's politically correct to say 'climate change'). T2 & T3 (Telstra) How many mum's and dad's believed the government hipe? and of course GD has been saying Qantas is doomed for years for various reasons. Funny though $1 billion reasons seems to suggest he got it way wrong. Economists are renowned for inaccurate predictions. The weather man gets it right more of the time.

Our dispute is about the current realised profits, domestic inflation, and a reasonable and fair pay for PAST efforts and contribution.

If oil does hit $200 and the market contracts there will be job losses (no doubt) and QE may have to reduce the work force but it is all "what if's". Those who may be lucky (??) enough to retain a position with Qantas still deserve a 5% pay increase for there past contributions and to maintain there living standards. Those made redundant will be move on, retire, find other employ or reduce there living costs and go surfing.

High oil price has nothing to do with our dispute, 5% please.

employes perspective

1st Jun 2008, 09:20

YOUR SPOT ON SORRY:ok:

stiffnut

1st Jun 2008, 09:35

I reckon we can retire more aircraft than the 5% that gd wants, don't whinge geoff we're trying our best to help you he he

Short_Circuit

1st Jun 2008, 09:38

What does 11 grounded aircraft, with no one to fix them, equate to as a percentage of the fleet?

But anyway, the overtime ban has no effect on the schedule, yeah right.

ALAEA Fed Sec

1st Jun 2008, 09:48

Gee imagine if the press wrote an article about oil at $300 a barrel then Qantas would have an even bigger argument against the unions. Wait a sec, maybe we could pretend it was going to hit $400 a barrel.

POT100 the press has been predominantly on our side. I do lots of radio interviews and an occassional one on tele and the questions are generally weighted to our cause. I always counter the lies of Qantas's pr people as does Ms Burrow. We are knuckling down for a stoush that will take soem time before it is decided.

Let us deal with the press, our and the ACTU PR company are managing our feedback and we won't be put off by some alarmist posts on this rumour site. We are more than comfortable with the position we are in right now.

hi-speed tape

1st Jun 2008, 10:06

Fed Sec, please check you fax machine asap ref post 1774 from mandero

Short_Circuit

1st Jun 2008, 10:58

wanty

1st Jun 2008, 12:15

PPM 9-72-003 (I think) no more engine runs! :uhoh:

The harder we try to fix aeroplanes the bigger the brick wall THEY build to stop us (THEY = management). :ugh:

They realy want us to fail, don't they.

Not due back to work for another 3-4 days and certainly won't be going back early for overtime lol,so can you spill the beans or elaborate about
PPM 9-72-003 and engine runs thanks,even a pm.

wanty.

ALAEA Fed Sec

1st Jun 2008, 12:32

Thanks Hi-speed. Will see fax tomorrow.

LAMEs following the thread should note that the best way we can handle issues is to have the PPM, Cross report, Form 500 etc.... Faxed to our office, then we are armed with the information so we can take it to CASA or the press as required.

Members just a brief thought. As Qantas now have limited manhours available to them it is important to remember that we must -

find more defects than we can fix

This doesn't mean we go overboard or do anything we would not normally do, we just do our job properly. In a normal situation, enough Qantas LAMEs are employed to find defects and fix the ones that are reported, found or work that is otherwise required.

When we have overtime bans, this does not mean that we should find less defects. The reduction in available hours must be applied to the other side of the equation. Hope this makes sense.

cheers

kotoyebe

1st Jun 2008, 13:10

GD said:
"We have 36,000 people"
and
"If they get their five per cent and it goes across the workforce which is probably won't happen, it would add $360-million to the group wages bill over the next three years."
scource: ABC radio interview here: http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2008/s2245583.htm

So I did some maths. If I am correct in assuming he means that the extra 2% over the normal "Board has signed off a 3% wages policy...take it or f*ck off" wage rise that we have all endured for the last 7 years, then the $360mil represents a whole $9.13 per employee per day for the next 3 years.

Not a lot eh, to get your workforce offside?

Well what was even more interesting...and infuriating to me is that even this figure is overstated. We can add this to the other littany of lies we have seen over the last week. Here is why:

You extrapolate this $9.13 per day increase over a year and you get an annual increase per employee of $3333.00...the extra 2%. This suggests that the average QF employee earns...wait for it...$166,650.00 per annum after the increase.

Now I know there are well paid people at QF, but there are plenty, and I suggest the vast majority, that don't earn anywhere near that. I don't! Not even half!!

I am also getting increasingly frustrated with the media, and how all this BS is not even challenged. If a dummy like me can see this, then the media are either stupid, delibrately avoiding any scrutiny, or both.

I reckon they could have given the engineers a 10% increase just with the cost of delays over this weekend. Surely there must be some big shareholders taking notice? This is just about GD's ego and ideology. It certainly can't be about the actual dollar values.

Sorry about all the maths. If someone proves me wrong, I'll delete the post.

qantastrike

1st Jun 2008, 13:29

Just checked your maths koto and you are spot on.... Asuming GD is of course talking about the 2% only not the whole 5%.... Maybe his number crunchers made a slight error in there excitment.... :D

Good on ya koto. I knew it didnt
sound right but glad you put it in perspective.

Flugbegleiter

1st Jun 2008, 15:03

What a mess!

Today, Sunday 1 June:
QF11 and QF1 both rescheduled till tomorrow!
QF583 (747-300) cancelled at the 11th hour due to water leakage!

$$$$$$

I think this airline is falling apart! That must affect about 900-1000 pax!

cpiom

1st Jun 2008, 15:27

My point is proven. Big Unit and Negative Feedback, you both resort to childish name calling and unprofessional/inept behaviour.

In actual fact I know a lot of professional LAME's and they have my full respect. Your cause also had my support (with some reservation). As I said "it had". "LAME's" like you will lose this for all, as you will effectively lose public support, with your denegration of anybody who would dare question your motives and actions.

On top of this you have the audacity to also have a go at our defence force personnel!! The crazziness of the situation may be getting to you.

You have lost my support. It is amazing what a small vocal minority can do!

Sunfish

1st Jun 2008, 18:38

cpiom = wingers. The troll is using the same style of manufactured anger. First appeared about twelve hours after wingers signed off.

By the way, it would add $360-million to the group wages bill over the next three years."

Mr. Dixon is using "polly speak". What that phrase sounds like to the average man is:

"It would add $360 million to the Group wages billover the next three years

The annualised rate is about $120 million per year or perhaps a reduction in profits of ten percent, based on the current 1 to 1.4 billion per year figure. Not a lot really to keep your staff on side is it?

Then of course there is the question of the cost savings that could be generated by an engaged workforce, but of course anyone who has worked in maintenance knows that the marketer who brings in $100 million in new business gets rewarded, but the backroom guys who just saved the company $100 million never even get noticed.

Or, to put it another way, if you think training and experience are expensive, try ignorance instead.

But it's not really about money anyway, it's all about Mr. Dixon and his ego isn't it.

cpiom

1st Jun 2008, 19:40

Wrong Sunfish, but keep trying, you seem to have a lot of time on your hands rather than spending it with your family! (as you all keep stating)

kotoyebe, did you take into account sick leave, super, annual leave, long service leave, workers comp?? just to name a few of the extra's

"I am also getting increasingly frustrated with the media, and how all this BS is not even challenged. If a dummy like me can see this, then the media are either stupid, delibrately avoiding any scrutiny, or both."

So call me a troll or management at lest I am willing to take a level headed approach to the situation and not resort to childish name calling!!!

"This doesn't mean we go overboard or do anything we would not normally do, we just do our job properly. In a normal situation, enough Qantas LAMEs are employed to find defects and fix the ones that are reported, found or work that is otherwise required."

Fed Sec of the ALAEA this highlights the fact your members have been failing in their jobs as certifying LAME's in the past as a/c have left on time, and now the statements are out there insinuating they are finding defects to the detriment of the company and passengers for the advantage of their own financial benefit. Might send this to the press. Remember this is where your wages come from. No LAME's no Fed Sec and no political carrer.

You are all suppose to be responsible and up-standing citizens of the community. You and your union are failing in that respect.

HARDNUT

1st Jun 2008, 20:45

CPIOM. I think you have lost the plot.The fed sec is just re-enforcing our comittment to work practices.None of us would change the way we do our jobs just because there is industrial action on.we are to professional for that!

Sunfish

1st Jun 2008, 21:50

CPiom, definitely a troll - repeating previous charges by another troll.

No LAME's no Fed Sec and no political carrer.(sic)

Also obviously not a LAME or anyone who has ever inspected any aircraft which is obvious from the accusation that LAME's have ignored defects in the past.

Here is a hint CPiom, the rules, procedures and criteria pertaining to the maintenance of any aircraft, not just the Qantas Fleet, require that certain work be performed by people who are trained, suitably experienced, and who have demonstrated competency in their field of work in order to be licensed to perform it.

The reason for that being the case is that very high levels of skill, judgement, experience and expertise are required to distinguish between what is actually a defect within the meaning of the rules and regulations and what is not, otherwise trained monkeys could maintain aircraft couldn't they?

...And the exercise of that right to make judgement, conferred on LAME's by CASA, requires time, something Qantas did not realise until overtime bans went into force.

opalops

1st Jun 2008, 22:06

Well said Sunfish

Sunfish

1st Jun 2008, 22:18

Just found an interesting website about narcissism...

This quote kinda jumped out of the page at me.......

A narcissist remains forever such an infant. His world revolves around him. The people in it are but objects for him to use and control — existing for his sake, not their own. Like levers on a control panel or tools to be damaged through heavy use or livestock to be consumed. There to fulfill his needs and enhance his image. Beyond that, they have no importance. It never occurs to him that he owes them anything in return or that he should consider the effects of his actions on them.

An object has no feelings. It is not a person. It is not even a being in the usual sense of the word. You might grab an object like a screwdriver and abuse it by using it to pry something open, knowing that by using it this way you might break it. But you think nothing of breaking a screwdriver. Damaging that screwdriver is nothing. There are plenty more where that one came from.

The only thing that matters is what you want = getting open that thing you're trying to pry open with the screwdriver.

That screwdriver is of no account. It would be absurd to regard it as a having a right to better treatment. In fact, it has no right to be: it exists for your sake, for you to use and abuse as you please. It's basically just an extension of yourself, a tool, an executioner of your will, not its own.

That's what YOU are to a narcissist.

Narcissists (and psychopaths) just use other people, all other people. Any way they please. In other words, they don't relate to other people. Which is an abbreviated way of saying that they don't relate to other human beings as a human being.

...and this one...

The good thing about accepting it is that there is no hating such a person. You can't hate what you can't relate to. You can no more hate a narcissist for being a narcissist than you can hate a snake for being a snake. You don't take it personally when a snake bites you. Don't take it personally when a narcissist does, either. It wasn't you. It wasn't anything you did. You were just there, that's all. Handy.

http://www.narcissism.operationdoubles.com

Silmarillion

1st Jun 2008, 23:10

OK cpiom what is your solution to the very big problems we as LAME's are having:

In Work

- Lack of manpower to carry out the basic tasks required to keep this Qantas Fleet of aircraft in the air.
- Lack of spares to repair or maintain most of the defects we are encountering.
- Nil training of personnel on the various aircraft types, leaving the bulk of the work and responsibility of signing to a handful of over work LAME's.
- Trying to discuss the problems of how to deal with the various situations we encounter on a day to day basis with Managers who have absolutely no idea what we do.
- Intimidation and threats on a daily basis by management to get things signed and get aircraft out.
- Constant threats, by Management, of jobs losses, sackings for trying to do your job properly
- Etc, Etc, Etc............

Outside of Work

- Struggling to pay mortgages
- Struggling to keep up with the ever increasing price increases for food.
- Struggling to pay for (wait for it) petrol to get ourselves to and from work.
- Having NO Holidays with your children, because Qantas has banded leave.
- Having No extra disposable income because we have imposed our own overtime ban.
- Etc, Etc, Etc............

Until you can come up with a constructive alternative that tackles just some of the problems we are experiencing now, kindly shut up and go away.

Dockie

1st Jun 2008, 23:14

UP D Date

1st Jun 2008, 23:23

Bumpfoh

1st Jun 2008, 23:49

David,:ugh::ugh:

may I suggest to you and all of your sh!tpot subordinate managers to get off your collective coits and, heaven forbid, come down to the floor where the real work gets done, and not just for 5 minutes and then F off to the next B.S meeting, and exerience first hand what your mangement has done to the way we have to operate on a day to day basis, and only then may you understand, although I doubt it very much, the reasons why there are mounting delays across the network.

If you think it is because of a "go slow" as you imply then you are truly out of touch with your department. I experience first hand every day and night whilst on shift the frustration of my Seniors at the sheer lack of manpower for the workload and the continual "road blocks" that QE procedures put in place to inhibit our ability to carry out a task.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

As has been previously posted many times in this thread it is quite often in spite of QE management and procedures that aircraft depart on time due to the profesionalism of the LAME's on the floor.

So continue on with your staff disengaging media statements David, it only adds to our resolve.:=

Negative Feedback

1st Jun 2008, 23:52

Dear CP input output module.
A term used in military/Airbus avionic speak, so we can guess a bit more of your background.

My point is proven. Big Unit and Negative Feedback, you both resort to childish name calling and unprofessional/inept behaviour.
Refer to my previous post which you obviously didn't read.
"Read" by the way, means to actually look at the words and digest the content.

In actual fact I know a lot of professional LAME's and they have my full respect. Your cause also had my support (with some reservation). As I said "it had". "LAME's" like you will lose this for all, as you will effectively lose public support, with your denegration of anybody who would dare question your motives and actions.
I know a lot of LAMEs too. My motives are pure, my actions legal and my opinions are mine (Is this not a democracy?). Again, I say to you, read my previous post.

On top of this you have the audacity to also have a go at our defence force personnel!! The crazziness of the situation may be getting to you.
I didn't at all, there are some absolutely great guys and girls in the service. I work and socialise with them often. ............. you know what to do, read my previous post.

You have lost my support. It is amazing what a small vocal minority can do!
In this case I suggest you read all of your own posts again.
Have a nice day:)

nut turner

2nd Jun 2008, 00:16

It would appear that QANTAS has reacted with record speed to remove the newly ammended requirements for engine run approvals. Obviously the thought that the fleet could be grounded because no one could carry out a run sent alarm bells ringing late yesterday afternoon. Perhaps some thought might go into future ammendments but I won't hold my breathe. As the saying goes "Live in hope and die in dispair."

life_sentence_as_AME

2nd Jun 2008, 00:18

It is almost as if the aircraft are on the LAME's side.
I have never seen so many show stopping defects appear in such a short time. Sure there are overtime bans but 9 times out of 10 no amount of manpower can prevent a last minute defect from delaying a service.
There have been accusations of "go slows" and even more sinister things but if MH, DC or even GD came to have a look at what was actually causing most of these serious delays they would find that it is just random defects at unfortunate times (for the schedule).

If managment want to talk about "go slows" somone should ask them about an 18 month EBA "go slow".

Big Unit

2nd Jun 2008, 01:08

DC. That media blurb was a bad, bad move. You have just made it personal with the LAME's, who despite disgustingly low manpower levels and an ever increasing workload, were continuing to work through most of their smoko breaks in a vein attempt to make schedule. After that utter pile of crap you spoke about in the herald sun, with regards to go slows, you may be staring down the barrel of one huge go slow.
How about you show some balls and come down to the floor and work with us for one block (2 days and 2 nights). At least that way you could apologise in person after you see the ****fight that you and MH have caused. I wish i could express how i feel about you and your team but the mod's would ban me for life. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

wanty

2nd Jun 2008, 01:20

More lies from DC.
Herald Sun this morning.

QANTAS has blasted the "deplorable" actions of engineers for delays and cancellations over the weekend.
The airline would not say how many flights had been affected but said disruptions were higher than normal.
Qantas engineers held a four-hour stopwork meeting from 8am on Friday as part of a pay dispute.
Qantas engineering executive general manager David Cox yesterday said a go-slow by engineers was to blame for weekend disruptions.
The Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association is seeking a 5 per cent pay rise, but Qantas insists it will not change its 3 per cent a year wages policy.
The association has said it may consider two-day strikes.

To whom it may concern,

In response to today’s article regarding our ongoing pay dispute with the “GREEDY” Qantas board.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23793714-662,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23793714-662,00.html)

I for one am quite offended by David Cox’s assertion that I or any of my colleagues are “On a go slow”.
The simple answer to any and all delays at Qantas is this.

For years Qantas have bolted on to their system of maintenance a thing called “PPM” Policies and procedures manual.
Ordinarily at Qantas, Engineers follow this “PPM” to the letter and operations run smooth, ”PROVIDING ENGINEERS WORK A PLETHORA OF OVERTIME”.
Due to the fact Qantas will not budge from their “OUTDATED POLICY” of capped 3% wage increases, we now find ourselves in this “COMPLETELY LEGAL” situation of "Overtime bans"
This situation, coupled with a severe shortage of licensed engineer’s currently at Qantas, due to management cutbacks in pursuit of “MANAGEMENT BONUSES”
is “SOLELY TO BLAME”.

Why should I or any of my work colleagues work any harder or faster than normal and place ourselves in danger of making an error, which could be
costly to the flying public. I for one treat every plane I work on as though “MY FAMILY IS FLYING ON THIS FLIGHT”.

Sounds to me like someone above me in the chain of command wants us to “PUT SCHEDULE AHEAD OF SAFETY”.

If there aren’t enough Lames on shift due to overtime restrictions to get the work done, then I suggest to look at the people who have the biggest influence
on overall engineering numbers and the “LACK” of training.
Good luck with the above suggestion, as I’m tipping management will be too busy number crunching their next bonuses to care about the flying public.

Would also be nice if the HERALD SUN were a bit more balanced in their disclosure of published wages.

Engineers “Fictitious" wages of $130,000 per annum.
Geoff Dickson’s REAL WAGES OF $130,000 PER WEEK

SIGNED,

ANGRY.

Short_Circuit

2nd Jun 2008, 02:22

Qantas engineering executive general manager David Cox yesterday said a go-slow by engineers was to blame for weekend disruptions.

DC has just no idea what he is talking about. If he calls working 7 to 8 hours straight without even a pee break a "go slow" it may be time to show him
what a go slow would be like. ( ie take you legal meal breaks on time) that is all it will take and that is not even a go slow it is what is legal....

Looks like all the 744ER A checks are coming due this week. (Hint hint Fed Sec)

It would appear that QANTAS has reacted with record speed to remove the newly ammended requirements for engine run approvals.

Just another example, they have no idea what we do or how it is done, :ugh:

sickofqf

2nd Jun 2008, 02:41

Heard QF1 has been re-sched to 1030am, apparently all the city hotel rooms were already full of QF pax by the time the extended curfew was missed, 1145pm, so they had to be sent out parramatta way to find an available room!! 4 Jumbos grounded o'night in syd, and the only thing we have done is to stop doing overtime, we're not even trying yet!! Thanks MH !!

mate, the Perth classics' contents plus the passengers from the QF11 spent the night in the Qantas club in the domestic terminal due to NO hotel rooms.!!!

How the heck has that NOT made the papers.....easy.......want our advertising dollars......tow the line!!

Short_Circuit

2nd Jun 2008, 03:09

Just a thought,
maybe Dixon is going to build a Hotel around Arncliffe for his retirement.

The way he has run down QE his rooms will have 100% occupancy from cancelled
QANTAS flights. ;)

wanty

2nd Jun 2008, 04:11

Keep up the overtime bans indefinately until Dicko is ousted by the rest of the board. All we want is whats fair Geoff. 3% is below inflation.

:ugh:..QF DAY 1
:ugh:...QF DAY 2
:ugh:....QF DAY 3
:ugh:.....QF DAY 4
:ugh:......QF DAY 5
:ugh:.......QF DAY 6
:ugh:........QF DAY 7
:ugh:.........QF DAY 8
:ugh:..........QF DAY 9
:ugh:...........QF DAY 10

....... = Delays

Notice a pattern here Geoff, the red stonewall is QF engineers. Every aircraft you try and get passed us just gets blocked by defect after defect. God bless the "PPM"

Oh yeah, in case you didn't work it out,notice the delays getting longer and longer and longer. :ok:

PS

:ugh:............................................. ............................................QF

CITY HOTELS RUBBING THIER HANDS $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

:=

wanty

2nd Jun 2008, 04:32

Qantas engineering executive general manager David Cox yesterday said a go-slow by engineers was to blame for weekend disruptions.

I dare you to publicly name which flight and a particular engineer for causing a delay "illegally" COX !!!!

You'll be talken to court and sued so quickly you won't know what hit you.:=

sickofqf

2nd Jun 2008, 04:42

I would suggest we add a few extra caveats to our demands;

"At the conclusion of this EBA, we, the engineers of QE, refuse to co-operate with the following managers and demand their immediate removal from their positions.

DC
MH
KM
DH"

How's that sound ?

hell, I'd take 4% if that happened!!

Perhaps they could hire a few Lufthansa guys to right the sinking ship before it's too late.........

1746

2nd Jun 2008, 05:05

Don't forget JV = he has experience - just look at AN:D

Short_Circuit

2nd Jun 2008, 05:11

DC
MH
KM
DH"

How's that sound ?

hell, I'd take 4% if that happened!!

Hmmmm :hmm:
4% and scalps, :hmm:
Hmmmm interesting option.:hmm:

No. 5% & scalps.:p

blubak

2nd Jun 2008, 05:13

An absolute insult to the highest degree.To even suggest what he has said is a low low act.It really shows just how far removed and disengaged our management is.As has been suggested a few hours spent at the coal face is obviously needed.

sickofqf

2nd Jun 2008, 05:21

On time departures

Information from www.flightstats.com

May 31 - 66%
June 01 66%

So far June 2 66%

From Qantas.com:

Qf11 Due Sunday 01 June 13:20. Departed Monday 02 June 11:46 - 20 hours 26 minutes LATE
QF01 Due Sunday 01 June 17:00. Departed Monday 02 June 10:37 - 17 Hours 37 minutes LATE

and guess what DC.....both were NOT due to slow work but due to crap aeroplanes which have had very poor heavy maintenance inspections which failed to find basic yet long-fix defects!!!!!

.....and so the snowball grows bigger........

wanty

2nd Jun 2008, 05:27

Go slow, anyone know the "uncontrolled reference" for replacement of a 387 light bulb in p5 panel lighting on a maggot ????

No, guess I'll have to go and look myself or await my EA !!!:ok:

No need for 48 hour stoppages. OT bans working a treat,coupled with no more goodwill,these bans unstoppable. My opinion only of course.:E

The whole system soon to ground to a halt on it's own.

Internal pain is the HARDEST to fix but easily fixed with the right numbers(5%) :ok: thrown at the problem.

acslame

2nd Jun 2008, 05:30

Fed Sec,
When is the next stop work?
Lets maintain the momentum
If we haven't heard from the company by 1630hrs
then hit them with 72hrs notice of an all ports
stop work meeting during peak times.
Sorry in advance to all pax.
Call the next stop work a "vote of no confidence"
in QE management.
And I now want 6% + DC's and MH's scalps

wanty

2nd Jun 2008, 05:34

2.00 am sounds good to me.

sickofqf

2nd Jun 2008, 05:53

Wanty,

Perhaps we could hold it in the Qantas club so all the overnighting stranded passengers can listen in and realise that it's GD, DC & MH et als fault and not a "go slow"

PS, notice from association......ignore any knee-jerk changes to the PPM removing ground run approval requirement. It's apparently a safety related issue so back to NO engine runs.....and that means you A330 boys too you know!!

Nice one SP!!

blackhander

2nd Jun 2008, 05:59

Have conducted quite a few ground runs from the right hand seat and many more from the ground and now I find out I'm not qualified.
Wish I had to the time to update my quals in eQ but with so much work to do I don't know if I'll ever get the chance.
Too bad

sickofqf

2nd Jun 2008, 06:01

Blakchander,

Even if you had the time there's nothing you can do until you've had the official training which will cover the OH&S side of it.........

what a boo boo........

Ngineer

2nd Jun 2008, 06:03

Next stop work?

chanel1234

2nd Jun 2008, 06:56

hi-speed tape

2nd Jun 2008, 06:58

Personally, this is not about the money. I will take a pay freeze, as I have before, if the present management just f#@*s off and passes on the big QF to a group of people that has a passion to grow a winning product and restore a huge slice of pride into every worker that has the great fortune to wear the QF logo on thier shirt/overalls/blouse or apron .
FOG
May I be so humble as to suggest a quote for the day?
Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don"t know what you are talking about.
Attn GD, DC, MH and all your yes men/wanabe's.
Good night Gentlemen of the Engineering persuasion and God bless you all. You are to be congratulated........

hi-speed tape

2nd Jun 2008, 07:01

C1234, stay in the UK and go back to school.

wanty

2nd Jun 2008, 07:01

Next stop work?

If you asked David Cox, apparently we have already stopped work. Go slow,what an insult. Absolutely 100% work to rule, 100% of the time now.

For any members who weren't that disgruntled,now I would say D cox has peeved them off too now.

Thanks for re enforcing the solidarity David C*x,one blunder after another for you isn't it. Your days at Qantas are numbered,you'll be gone by xmas.:ok:

Flugbegleiter

2nd Jun 2008, 07:06

Hey chanel1234,

I think most of our LAMEs can actually read and write properly, just as I'm sure most of the Pommie ones can. We don't need any illiterate LAMEs, thank you. I don't think anyone who writes as poorly as you could possibly be a real LAME.

BTW, How much do you think you'd be earning if you came to work as a LAME here? Are you sure you've got your facts straight? Maybe you misread something :}

wanty

2nd Jun 2008, 07:10

ALAEA Fed Sec

2nd Jun 2008, 07:20

Take it easy on our friends from the UK guys. Most are top engineers and good union men. I think a few of you may have been tricked into responding to a 'false' LAME who is trying to start something between us and our Pommie cousins.

sickofqf

2nd Jun 2008, 07:22

Note: this is International departures from Sydney according to Qantas.com

QF11 - 22hrs:26mins Late
QF01 - 17hr:37 Late
QF163 - 1hr:35 late
QF91 - 40 Mins late
QF167 - 9 mins late
QF136 Cancelled
QF45 - 29 mins late
QF367 - 12 mins late - operated by Asiana
QF47 - 12 mins late
QF129 - 53 mins late
QF63 - 28 mins late
QF191 - 23 mins late
QF359 - 52 mins late - operated by Vietnam Airlines
QF107 - 1hr:43 late
QF375 - 15 mins late - operated by Air Vanuatu
QF127 - 1hr:28 late
QF321 - 6 mins late - Operated by Lan Chile
QF19 - 2hr:13 late
QF43 - 3 mins late
QF391 - ON TIME - Operated by Air Pacific
QF11 - 31 mins late
QF73 - 35 mins late
QF187 - 1hr:48 late
QF41 - 58 mins late
QF319 - 2 mins early - Operated by British Airways
QF5 - 17 mins late
QF189 - 55 mins late estimated
QF301 - On Time - estimated - operated by British Airways
QF31 - 3hr:50 late - estimated
QF01 - 3 hours late - estimated
QF117 - ON TIME - estimated
QF49 - ON TIME Estimated
QF21 - ON TIME - estimated

On time ( IATA standard = within 15 mins) departures so far: 26 flights ( incl codeshares not operated by QF)
30.76% On Time

On time not including non-qf operated codeshares: 20 Flights, 3 flights on time within 15 mins !!
15% On time

I think SYD International and Base are doing their bit to ensure the safety of the QF fleet!!

600ft-lb

2nd Jun 2008, 07:24

I was uniformed about you guys , i think you have it good, am coming to AUS and happy to earn the dollars that you guys earn.
I thought the man was robbin you, but now way, please compare your wages to UK guys
Looks like you guys need dose of THATCH, ie Margaret...
Man yu fellows are bpissing in the wind, i suggest you getabout fixin planes, and this comes from a staunch unionist
you Aussies need a dose of reality
i thought i was coming here to support a union of underpaide workers
am happy to be paid what you guys are
MAN YOU GUYS HAVE GOT IT GOOD , keep on strykin, unbelievable, we will be filling your jobs what tossersok, judging from the typical anti-industrial action poster, the average post count is around 3 or 4, so you fit this bill. now its interesting that the prelude to the actual 'action' (which has been very minor so far in the grand scheme of things) these particular poster's were no where to be seen.

You guys (or guy, ie 1 QF manager with vested interests)are trying hard, from whoever you are employed by. This is an obvious tack to stem the flow of information around the Qantas employee groups because there is some really good juicy info in this thread such as the PPM amendment regarding EGR's. Because if it were adhered to, aircraft that required an EGR would be grounded because Qantas have not provided recurrency training to their LAME workforce.

wingers, cpiom, channel1234, etc, you are all post counts in the single digits and you all speak from the same tune. Us greedy money grabbing LAME's on the big dollars already will gladly welcome you to Qantas to bolster our ever dwindling numbers and help reduce the workload. Here is some facts for you;

-if you were employed newly in Qantas with say 2 engine and airframe types that Qantas operate, would be graded level 4 LAME, approximately $1100 a week, or to express it in a familiar currency for you, at today exchange rate, 531 GBP.

-If you were so lucky to work the 4on4off day/day/night/night shift at the approximately 40% shift loading, (which you wont be on as it only applies to staff pre '97) 743GBP per week. 38000GBP/year
-or a base rate of pay of approx 14GBP per hour.

So, nice attempt at trying to direct a bit of flame toward you post, but I hope its all put in perspective for you. Add to that, the average house price in BNE/SYD/MEL is hovering around $500,000 and a lot more to live in a desirable suburb, good luck living the good life us LAME's take for granted.

Please, come on in, take our jobs. Though its a bit hard when you're an office jocky employed by a consultancy company that is contracted to Qantas to assist in the breaking of the union. Perhaps you should give Geoff some tips on trying to not look like the biggest prick in the world whenever he opens his mouth. He's not winning the publicity battle thats for sure.

chanel1234

2nd Jun 2008, 07:24

man all i know is ..you should compare like to like...i think your union needs to come to the UK,

happpy to swap wages, you dudes do not know how good you have it, but who gives a shi...t, i gottttta a job and i aint complaining, looks like i will be an outcast for you ALAEA prick.s

600ft-lb

2nd Jun 2008, 07:33

channel1234 - is the poor spelling and grammar on purpose to illicit a thread drift and abuse toward yourself ?

Pist n Broke

2nd Jun 2008, 07:36

What you forget mate is a lot of poms over here already have worked back home for many years.
The wages over here are not comparable to those in europe. A Qantas LAME on $57,000 equates to 23,265 pounds stirling, as an AME i wouldn't get out of bed for that never mind as an LAE.
I used to earn between 35,000 and 45,000 pounds depending on who i worked for and came here for the lifestyle, not to work my arse off on OT to make up the shortfall.
Next time you want to spout off about something check your facts you illiterate waste of space.

these figures were from 10 years ago

blubak

2nd Jun 2008, 07:42

Chanel1234-all 0f a sudden you have made an appearance!!
Just wonder where you have been all of the time this eba has been going on.
Seems like(as many have suggested) you are being put here by someone to get a reaction.Better try a new approach-we can all see right through you(and your poor grammar).

satos

2nd Jun 2008, 07:44

Chanel1234.
With such poor grammar of yours, you haven't got a hope in hell of passing the citizenship test.
Stay home and work for a bowl of rice.

hi-speed tape

2nd Jun 2008, 07:44

Guys, don't take the bait. C1234 is MH !!!! Look at his location !!!!!

hi-speed tape

2nd Jun 2008, 07:51

Good night Muzza (C1234). XXXXX LOL

employes perspective

2nd Jun 2008, 08:04

C1234,i did work in the UK back in 93-95 as a connie,i was making 950 pound a week back then as an AME,as a QF Lame i was making the equivalent of 420 pound a week in 2006,you do the math,and now that you have ,PISS OFF.:ouch::ouch::ouch:D!ckhead

employes perspective

2nd Jun 2008, 08:07

On time departures

Information from www.flightstats.com (http://www.flightstats.com/)

May 31 - 66%
June 01 66%

So far June 2 66%

From Qantas.com:

Qf11 Due Sunday 01 June 13:20. Departed Monday 02 June 11:46 - 20 hours 26 minutes LATE
QF01 Due Sunday 01 June 17:00. Departed Monday 02 June 10:37 - 17 Hours 37 minutes LATE

and guess what DC.....both were NOT due to slow work but due to crap aeroplanes which have had very poor heavy maintenance inspections which failed to find basic yet long-fix defects!!!!!

.....and so the snowball grows bigger........
http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=4153016) http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/reply_small.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4153016&noquote=1)

looks like the shutting down of H245 is really starting to pay dividends,imagine where the rest of QF engineering will be in 2 yrs time ...

Konehead

2nd Jun 2008, 08:09

you Aussies need a dose of reality
i thought i was coming here to support a union of underpaide workers
am happy to be paid what you guys are
MAN YOU GUYS HAVE GOT IT GOOD

Dude, where are you getting your facts? I've spoken to Brit LAMEs. They "wont get out of bed for less than 42 euro/hr" = AUD68/hr, or about 50% more than I'm on. Further, Ryanair, yes Ryanair, the archetypal low cost carrier is paying more than QF for my licence. MAS is also paying more than QF, tax free (less than 60 days contract).
Please tell me what you think we earn. The average is $89,000 for a 12 hr 4 on (2 days, 2 nights) 4 or 5 off roster. Let's compare apples with apples please!

chanel1234

2nd Jun 2008, 08:11

Pist n Broke

2nd Jun 2008, 08:18

If you're gonna troll and try and get a response at least make it look like you know what you're talking about.

Name calling and bullsh1t doesn't cut it here mate, try and stir up trouble where it seems you will fit in.

pre-school would seem most appropriate.

wanty

2nd Jun 2008, 08:21

KONEHEAED....BUL****T

you guys make me sick....am a proud unionst and POM....check you faxcts...lame ame wages AUS v UK,

but i dont give a shi...t, i am after the bucks, you chaps are ****..in silly... looks like you are shaftin the man for the sake of it, either way who gives a shi...t am here for the bucks, and i wont b joing you wankers, ........by the response looks like i am right, f.enahe...you guys are weak pussys who are i need of a good flogging

An earlier post by channel1234

Quote "You Aussies don’t muck around, will be migrating down under with a couple of lads , look forward to joining the union, stick it to the man"

Believe it was his second post ever.

Pity the pilots and the general flying public if your thier certifying LAME.

What a joke.

Bolty McBolt

2nd Jun 2008, 08:51

sickofqf...
[B]"At the conclusion of this EBA, we, the engineers of QE, refuse to co-operate with the following managers and demand their immediate removal from their positions.

DC
MH
KM
DH"

How's that sound ?

hell, I'd take 4% if that happened!!

B]

Mate luv it. I would vote for that.
These idiots listed above and don't forget the other pathetic wanna be nabobs NG and TG forget that after this is over, (when ever that may be)management will have to work and communicate with us to achieve any kind of goals or changes they wish to implement.
They have all shown their cards on how they feel about our worth and respect for our abilities to do our job. I for one cannot see how I will ever look any of these people in the face without thinking how much distaste and lack of respect I have for them.

Even now that belt stretching buffoon KM whom has a willing group of A380 guys is doing his level best to disengage his team by telling them
"he owns their ass" etc and that he can do what he likes with them
This guy was once respected for his ability to communicate with the guys but now he is one of the worst a pure M clone..
If any of these guys want to achieve anything further in their professional career I suggest they look in Seek.com because they will never have my support or respect again.
To the DMs and future OMs whom have already scabbed on us. Same goes double for you characters.

Fear and Loathing. I have no fear for my future or of my managers but my loathing goes beyond measure :suspect:

For the the benifit of chanel1234 for mine its not all about the money

stiffnut

2nd Jun 2008, 09:01

Life sentence as a lame wrote

QF aircraft are supporting LAME's
It is almost as if the aircraft are on the LAME's side.
I have never seen so many show stopping defects appear in such a short time. Sure there are overtime bans but 9 times out of 10 no amount of manpower can prevent a last minute defect from delaying a service.

I totally agree mate but its called KARMA.

I've heard through the grapevine that we have a 744 stuck in Sin. with two u/s t/rs anybody heard anything about it.

employes perspective

2nd Jun 2008, 09:51

like i said the closure of H245 is starting to bite

sickofqf

2nd Jun 2008, 09:51

I heard that too....carried one in and broke the other on landing.....boys up there played around, pulled 'em apart then went home.......:eek:

Well done chaps :ok:

As for the latest troll, ignore him, he isn't even close to being a Pom......who ever head a pom use the term slackers....sorry slakers...his spelling also is quite awful.

Slackers is as Aussie as drizabones and so is that troll.

In case you haven't noticed, LAMEA380 is AWOL................

In any case, he's reported and will have to come up with another IP and nic!!

indamiddle

2nd Jun 2008, 10:17

hi all, noticed a post re supposed go slow tactics where an engineer said that he is not going slow, that he is not taking rest breaks or even loo breaks. as cabin crew this concerns me as poor decisions are made when people are hungry or working with their legs their legs crossed. so please, please ,please take your break when it is due and if you have to stop in the middle of something that will delay a departure so be it. FOG

HotDog

2nd Jun 2008, 10:29

Flugbegleiter

2nd Jun 2008, 10:45

Please forgive me for straying off topic but I am genuinely interested as to how many correspondents on this D & G forum actually know the real meaning or origin of the ever popular expression of troll? Nowhere else but only on QF LAME related postings does the troll appear but in most cases it is a non-sequitur.

Definition: Troll (internet usage)
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang), is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum) or chat room (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_room), with the intention of baiting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiting_%28Internet%29) other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

In which cases specifically in these forums do you believe it has been misused?

Annulus Filler

2nd Jun 2008, 11:01

As I look into my chrystal ball and predict what will happen after an outcome, I see Qantas offering as much overtime as you bare to catch up on a huge backlog of work. I would think it will take several months to catch up. Some may say great and see plenty of $$$$, but with the current cancellation of leave, when will you be able to take annual leave once the dispute is over? I am sure they can reject annual leave on the basis of operational requirements, but not sure whether they can knock back Long Service Leave, DIL's, 20th days etc etc. Can anybody clarify?

HotDog

2nd Jun 2008, 11:08

Mein lieber Herr Flugbegleiter, just because someone has an opinion on a subject different to yours, does not imply "baiting" or to disrupt the thread in question. It simply means an expression of a different view and he shouldn't be regarded as a lowlife knave and kicked out the door( which reputably happens to be the original interpretation of "troll" in Sweden, I belive). However, I thank you for partially quoting the meaning of troll, which may result in less use of this useless term.

murrayatwell

2nd Jun 2008, 11:25

Update on EGR, news out of Brisbane is that the guy's are not current and will not be doing EGR's tonight. I hope the members in all other ports show the resolve of these men and comply for safety sake. Congrats guy's. No doubt some heated telephone conversations are underway as I type.:ok::D

REALITY

2nd Jun 2008, 11:58

May I suggest that any engineer who experiences pressure from any manager or supervisor to carry out any task by not following the PPM & AMM to the letter contact the ALAEA immediately and also complete cross reports stating whom is applying this pressure and why.

It won't take long to stop :D

PIOT Bord

2nd Jun 2008, 12:14

A Saviour has arrived for DC and MH, his name is chanel1234. This guy is the fastest worker on earth. If he can't resolve the dispute himself, he will definitely be able to do all the maintenance work himself.

Last Thursday, when in England, he was offered a job in Australia the job i was offered was not as a scab , am considering it,By Friday he had decided to migrate (with a few of his mates) You Aussies don’t muck around, will be migrating down under with a couple of ladsNow it's Monday and he's here, arrived in Syd, has taken stock and decided to join DC's teami thought i was coming here to support a union of underpaide workerskeep on strykin, unbelievable, we will be filling your jobs what tossersWhen you're next chatting to Murray, chanel1234, say hello to LAMEA380, sobast, oh yes, and Ashley as well!

wanty

2nd Jun 2008, 12:28

Don't forget a big hello to Tom Magara.... the bottle dropper. from QF dock,vigin Blue now QF scab.:ok:

NAS1801

2nd Jun 2008, 12:42

Hi All. In order to prevent this thread drifting into a verbal slanging match, may I suggest adding the following users to your ignore list.

ACARS747
amos2
chanel1234
HotDog
LAMEA380
lordofthewings
Pass-A-Frozo
Pilot Error
rogueLAME
wingers

None of the above contribute anything worthwhile to the thread and simply post to stir people into abuse. Block them, stay cool!

division1

2nd Jun 2008, 13:03

The current problems with the fleet serviceability was always
going to happen. Get rid of heavy maint, get rid of staff, shed
contracts, cut everything to the bone, these are all the making
of the management seeking short term gains and bigger bonuses.
Lame's taking back their days off have just highlighted the deep
rooted problems.
Hard to feel sorry for GD, DC, MH, et al. They all need to look in
the mirror and stop trying to blame everything on the lame's taking
back their rostered days off.
And next time provide the courtesy of a paid meeting with essential
staff on duty. To force the lames into a stop work meeting was the
pinacle of stupidity with the workloads so high.

kotoyebe

2nd Jun 2008, 13:12

Overheard my manager had a meeting that included some top guys..eg KB - the People Manager extroadinaire. Apparently the top guys had no idea of how bad the weekend was. The goss was that DC was the one passing the info upwards over the weekend, and umm, coated it in sugar!

Also heard phone calls being placed around to the airports on how much they are spending on taxi vouchers/hotel accom/meal vouchers etc. Looks like they are starting to look at the cost of this all. Lots of people around the office saying that this has already cost HEAPS more than it would have cost to pay the extra 2%. But all agree that di*kson has painted himself into a corner.

It was a bit quiet the last couple of hours tonight (compared to the weekend). Only the 12 ex LAX overnighting. The planes fixing themselves all of a sudden?!

I nearly forgot...only take 5...you deserve it..stay strong

dr skydrol

2nd Jun 2008, 13:49

Hey brothers in regards to channel1234...coming from the UK. lets remember that the labour govt. would not allow 457visa holders to break our PIA. I'd say he's just a s..t stirer just winding you up for a reaction.
To DC about our deplorable actions of going slow. :{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{. Sorry dude just not working through my mealbreaks anymore.Not going slow just can't do the same work with less manpower (ie no OT) Its simple maths.

Hardworker

2nd Jun 2008, 17:33

Well it looks like OJH is the jewel in the crown tonight, arrived off schedule due to the previous delayed departure on the strike day only have it fail on departure tonight at 2035....Engine one Hung start and engine control msg....
Isolated down to a pump & governor PAG change and FMU change....interesting to note that the aircraft ACARS a PLF of an FMU failure on start ex SIN QF32.....So even with a curfew dispensation it didnt make it out, rescheduled to depart at 1030am Local tomorrow....
The hotel and taxi bills must be sky high and all of this related to outsourcing, old cheap repairs on components and aircraft to save 50c only to have it cost millions...
Not to mention the tarnished name Qantas is getting with passengers.....
Management accountability? They all think that they have done no wrong, they have and believe that saving on the short term & earning a budget bonus is worth more than the sustainiblity of the operation. It proves that all of Engineering management firmly believe that they are not responsible for any of these delay or short falls in the PPM...

PIOT Bord

2nd Jun 2008, 19:07

Word has it that a major institutional investor, possibly JP Morgan, spoke to Dixon yesterday. Too many of their high fliers haven't been going anywhere of late / missing meetings, apparently. That was the antidotal evidence they needed to front Dixon as it was at odds with the 'spin' that Qantas fed the stockmarket / public. (Only minor delays, engineers on a go-slow, etc, etc)

It might have been what has forced Dixon to agree to meet the ALAEA. It certainly isn't out of respect or goodwill that he has agree to meet, if he has indeed agreed to a meeting. If there is a meeting, will have to ask SP if there are any traces of blood around the bully's nose.

Toolpants

2nd Jun 2008, 20:34

Next time you ring maintenance watch, say hi to one of the big bosses. See if they can put you on speaker phone.

People high up are hanging around maint watch to see if the can spot any LAME’s sabotaging aircraft. What a joke.

It is probably good they are there. They might see the real state of QE.

Sunfish

2nd Jun 2008, 20:54

Can I just suggest that please be very careful what you post on here, as you have been doing to date?

You might like to consider what might happen if someone really "bites" when a troll posts here (like C1234, complete with Americanisms and Australianisms), so no threats please.

Kotoyebe:

Apparently the top guys had no idea of how bad the weekend was. The goss was that DC was the one passing the info upwards over the weekend, and umm, coated it in sugar!

If this is indeed true, that would be consistent with my theory about narcissists in management (and of course it's only a theory, I'm not a shrink.) These people would always feed sugar coated information upwards, and those at the top would expect it anyway. That way the blame when things go wrong attaches to the sugar coaters, not the Boss, because he was deliberately misinformed.

My guess is that at some stage, if (when?) things get uncomfortable enough, you are going to be offered a meeting with QF management, and I'm going to make a prediction about it......

.....It will be either with Mr. Cox and retinue, or Mr. Dixon and retinue, but not both, ever again.

The reason is that if you win this, Mr. Cox is going to get fired. Either Dixon will make Cox fix it before he fires him, or he will deliberately exclude Cox from further negotiations, then take credit for fixing it himself, and then tell Cox to leave because he has "lost the confidence of the Board".

Of course I could be wrong. Perhaps Dixon and Cox will come to you on bended knees, offer you six percent, offer all remaining QF staff much the same, thank you for showing them the error of their ways, and promise never to be so stupid again....but hell will freeze over first.

"Look after the shareholders" my arse!

Ragnar Benson

2nd Jun 2008, 21:06

Well MH has certainly changed the culture of the workplace forever. Even after the war the results of this PIA will last a generation.

If management think that waving a little cash in front of me now to make up, will turn back the clock think again. I'm enjoying my little fox hole or should I say pigeon hole where management put people.

They have lost the goodwill of the lame its gone!!!!

Qf now have a CORPORATE Lame culture just like the corporation we work for.

Minimum investment and maximum return.

Let the PIA roll on forever!!!

Short_Circuit

2nd Jun 2008, 21:24

Management told us last year that if we were to reject 3% and the loaded clauses, things would never be the same again.

To bloody right, we have learnt so much about them and know we can stand up for ourselves.

We now have our pride back.

blubak

2nd Jun 2008, 22:49

Well said sunfish,
all we have to do is stick to the facts,no need to abuse or accuse people.
There are plenty of others out there making things up as they go along to try and get attention to their cause-however the truth will come out and then watch them duck and weave to try and distance themselves from all the lies/innuendo.

sickofqf

2nd Jun 2008, 23:04

Short Circuit said
We now have our pride back

Yep, we sure do. I haven't seen people so happy to be at work in years, we once again have the time to actually fix all the defects instead of frantically worrying about departure times and figuring out which defects are allowed to be deferred!!!!
Even most of the supervisors and DMM's have stopped the bullying......I say MOST.....CY and MS will be long remembered.......

That now legendary toolbox meeting will go down in history..........

One of the bullied has stood up to the bully and as the bully stands back up with a bloodied nose he sees that ALL the bullied ( ie all the staff...not just LAMEs) have gathered around and all HIS friends are running away...........

Bye Bye DC
Bye Bye MH
Bye Bye KM

GOOD RIDDANCE

then in a few months

Bye Bye GD......FOG

Konehead

2nd Jun 2008, 23:53

The Mechanics Creed

"Upon My Honour, I swear that I shall hold in sacred trust the rights and privileges conferred upon me as a certified mechanic.

Knowing full well that the safety and lives of others are dependent upon my skill and judgement, I shall never knowingly subject others to risks which I would not be willing to assume for myself, or those dear to me.

In discharging this trust, I pledge myself never to undertake work or approve work which I feel to be beyond the limits of my knowledge, nor shall I allow any non-certified superior to pursuade me to approve aircraft or equipment as airworthy against my better judgement, nor shall I permit my judgement to be influenced by money or other personal gain, nor shall I pass as airworthy aircraft or equipment about which I am in doubt, either as a result of direct inspection or uncertainty regarding the ability of others who have worked on it to accomplish their work satisfactorily.

I realise the grave responsibility which is mine as a certified airman, to exercise my judgement on the airworthiness of aircraft and equipment.

I therefore, pledge unyielding adherence to these precepts for the advancement of aviation and for the dignity of my vocation."

SAFETY BEFORE SCHEDULE!

tnfixer

3rd Jun 2008, 00:39

Dockie

3rd Jun 2008, 02:58

I wonder if DC is going to blame the Melbourne fog on the LAMEs go slow.

blubak

3rd Jun 2008, 03:57

Our treasurer says in the Age today that wage rises must be matched by productivity growth.Thing we could satisfy that challenge without too much trouble.U never know-once we start compling the list,we may get enough offsets for more than 5%!

dr skydrol

3rd Jun 2008, 04:04

Wow what is it now 3 weeks into PIA and look what is happening.

OH OH QF ! ITS ALMOST JULY HERE COMES THE TWU.

Better sort something out soon.Only one way out now. Give us our megre rations and we will start doing OT again (if the insults stop) to fill the voids your management have created.
Well done to all our members for not doing anything out of the norm or stupid out there or doing anything illegal to the scabs and non conformers. It just goes to show what professionals we are and what we have been doing for this company for so many years and what happens if you treat your workforce like :mad:. I bet this wasn't supposed to happen in your guide to be a manager textbooks.

Big Unit

3rd Jun 2008, 04:10

Our treasurer says in the Age today that wage rises must be matched by productivity growth.

That is sensational news. I look forward to the 50% increases in our next pay.

thosecotos

3rd Jun 2008, 04:11

Last night, 37 rostered on shift. 11 went sick. Deferred just about all the called up work. Just did what we had to so they could fly today, then the fog rolled in to stuff the schedule. Even the bloke upstairs is on our side.......

You lose 30% of your nightshift man power and you still have almost double the men of a VT nightshift and triple the men on a JQ nightshift... surely there's time to take a pee?

wanty

3rd Jun 2008, 04:19

How many VT aircraft overnight in melb,for that matter,how many j* overnight in melb ????

The latter I reckon I could fit on 1 hand and I could hold my old fella with the other hand and pee non stop all night.

Big Unit

3rd Jun 2008, 04:20

You lose 30% of your nightshift man power and you still have almost double the men of a VT nightshift and triple the men on a JQ nightshift... surely there's time to take a pee?

It's all about the workload genius. You wouldn't be in management by any chance?

Level13

3rd Jun 2008, 04:20

I stayed home from nightshift last night.Rang in sick and am curious to see my DMM's reaction when I put in my leave form.He has been unequivocal in his disagreement to the PIA,and I've heard from the boys on shift last night that he was making some unsavoury remarks.
Word is the brothers from an opposing shift were dragged into DMM's office after taking sickie's to explain their absence.
In my case partner has been chronically ill for months and with the cancellation of leave I haven't been ther for the family ,so this sickie has been a long time coming!!!
Am ready for a flat out stoush if the boss has a go!

P.S What does FOG mean??

wanty

3rd Jun 2008, 04:25

Best of luck with the illness of the family member m8,suspect I know who

(BW) the DMM your talking about is. Well bad :mad:'n luck for him isn't it.

He should remember that if he is in the association that a majority voted

for action and he should toe the alaea line or :mad: off.

PS Mention the word "Harassment" to him and he will back down.

Anulus Filler

3rd Jun 2008, 04:28

P.S What does FOG mean??

_uck _ff _eoff

Now add the letters to each blank and hey presto!:ok:

wanty

3rd Jun 2008, 04:31

BRILLIANT.:ok::ok:

FIRST USEFULL ACRONYM I'VE SEEN FOR A WHILE.

thosecotos

3rd Jun 2008, 04:44

It's all about the workload genius. You wouldn't be in management by any chance?

No mate, just seeing the world through different eyes now. Ex QF LAME enjoying greener grass and a full days work - definitely get their pound of flesh from us at VT. My only problem is that the airline I now work in support of is going broke.

I believe good LAME's at QF are worth 50% more, it's just a shame they're in the relative minority and that the ALAEA has to protect everyone.

sickofqf

3rd Jun 2008, 05:27

So far, today's on-time rate is 43%

Poor GD, it doesn't just rain it pours.....and then the FOG rolls in.........

Did you get that Geoff, even him upstairs is sending in the FOG !!!!!

Short_Circuit

3rd Jun 2008, 06:10

Did you get that Geoff, even him upstairs is sending in the FOG

...............................he he he he..........................,

By the way,

I heard EBY flew into SYD with, (and I can't believe what I am about to type),

70 odd hold items (tech & Cabin).:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}

Now there is an instant 60 min delay for crew just to read the log book.

Can anyone confirm?

I know EBW flew out with 40 holds. And, how come they have been flying for 20 plus years and only now big no.s of holds :confused:

What is CASA doing. surely it should be grounded!!!!! :eek::eek:

wanty

3rd Jun 2008, 06:21

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{:{

:ok:

CASA, THE INDEPENDANT (QANTAS POLICE FORCE)

stiffnut

3rd Jun 2008, 06:29

Was EBY the classic that was up in Hong Kong last week for a chk?

Short_Circuit

3rd Jun 2008, 06:37

EBY was in HKG a few weeks ago, I believe. OPS outsourced maintenance again....

PS

Word has it that a major institutional investor, possibly JP Morgan, spoke to Dixon yesterday. Too many of their high fliers haven't been going anywhere of late / missing meetings, apparently.

JPMorgan Chase & Co (http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/jpmc) a leading global financial services firm with assets of US$1.5 trillion

That is the only muscle Dicko will listen to. He won't listen flesh & blood.

PIOT Bord

3rd Jun 2008, 07:27

Police had to be called to the Qantas Club in Sydney today to quell the anger of passengers who had a 24 hour delay waiting for the QF31 (SYDLHR) to be serviceable.
http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,23804420-5014090,00.html

Apparently, some of the Qantas customers found out what Dixon's attitude is towards them.

Just goes to show what a patient bunch we LAMEs are. We have been trying to deal with him for more than 20 months and the police haven't been called yet!

sickofqf

3rd Jun 2008, 07:37

heres a working link

http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,23804420-5014090,00.html

Big Unit

3rd Jun 2008, 07:40

Here you go....

A QANTAS international flight has been delayed for almost 24 hours due to mechanical problems.
Angry business class passengers on the Singapore-bound flight QF31 had to be subdued by airport police officers this afternoon after they became abusive towards airline staff.

The flight, which is code-shared with Air Malta's KM2031 and British Airways flight BA7371, was scheduled to leave Sydney at 4.55pm yesterday.

The Qantas website lists the departure time as 4.30pm today - almost 24 hours later.

It is understood passengers were given hotel accommodation overnight by Qantas.

Australian Federal Police officers at the airport were called to the Qantas Club lounge during the afternoon after passengers began swearing at staff over the delay.

"It was in relation to some harsh words that were being said,'' an AFP spokeswoman said.

"When our officers arrived the situation had been defused.''

Steve Re of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association confirmed the flight had experienced technical problems last night before taking off.

He said passengers were asked to disembark so engineers could fix the problem.

After returning to the airport this morning for a 10.30am departure, passengers were advised of a further delay.

A Sydney Airport spokesman said passengers were still waiting at the departure gate to board the plane at 4pm.

Ngineer

3rd Jun 2008, 07:55

I have never seen as many stressed out managers in my life as in the last few days. With every delay, they go storming out to investigate, only to return to find that the LAME's are trying their very best to get the aircraft out.
Just wait until 4 more weeks when things come to a grinding halt. (if we make it that long).
The next step that happens in times like these, for those that have'nt seen them, is that the knives come out as all the managers stab each other in the back. Watch them drop like flies as the blame game begins, and the scapegoats are found.
On a brighter note, I have not seen morale amongst the coal face as good as this in years.

wanty

3rd Jun 2008, 08:04

Yeah a really loud noise like ":mad::mad:ICKSON was heard eminating friom the engine area which really spooked the passengers.

Everything got under way again without much fuss when the passengers were reassured by cabin crew this is a completetly normal noise and nothing to concern themselves with. Except maybe the 12-15 hour delay they had coming.:ok:

another superlame

3rd Jun 2008, 08:05

This is fantastic. A little bit of unity amongst the troops, a common cause to work to the good book PPM on your side and all of a sudden we see a boost in morale. I know 20/20 hindsight is great, but wouldn't it have been good to stand up to them 5 years ago. Hopefully Joe Public and the QF investors will open their eyes and see what FOG is doing and pressure him into submission and retirement before he stuffs the company beyond repair.

wanty

3rd Jun 2008, 08:10

another superlame

3rd Jun 2008, 08:17

Is there any news on how QF and the A380 superteam is going. Now we wouldn't want to see any more delays and dramas affect that whole project.
Oh but then again those boys have released themselves of any ALAEA involvement haven't they.
I wonder if Qf will thank them in the future for all their support during these tough times.

I wonder if QF still have JHAS in the wings as their A380 contingency.

acslame

3rd Jun 2008, 08:30

Wasn't EBY only supposed to be in HK for a super A check?
Looks like 16 days is a record.

Mind you its not the HAECO guys fault.
HAECO will do as little or as much as the customer requires and
knowing QE they will have taken the budget option.

More money spent on maintenance = less money for bonuses

Also as they are dealing with QF they will have been sent bugger all spares and as we know the QF fleet are carrying loads of defects.

Remember that suppling spares is not the MRO's problem but the aircraft operators, and as we all know QF carry jack in the way of spares.

Now how did that "just in time " spare parts policy go again?
Another QF winner
So putting stuff in hold is really their only option.
I only hope the HAECO boys do as good a job on the next one.

Short_Circuit

3rd Jun 2008, 08:33

As QE are so short of LAMEs, why not call back all those licences from TEAM A380, and give JHAS the contract.

They already have the licenced people, QE don't.

Legacy will improve with the return of the licences, JHAS will suffer the teething problems of introduction of new airframes.

Win Win situation.

(But don't bring back the A380 management team). :ok:

sickofqf

3rd Jun 2008, 09:42

Crikey, the wheels have really fallen off the cart today;

51 flights cancelled

on time rate.....wait for it.....40%

OUCH

I'm guessing DC is telling GD it's all down to the fog in melbourne.........

That's right........FOG ...........

acslame

3rd Jun 2008, 10:00

I am actually really proud to be a legacy LAME.
Can some one please explain what is wrong
with being a legacy LAME ?
I always thought it was a good thing.

FED SEC
Could you please send all ports FOG badges?
TA
PS 40%, We can do a lot better than that!!!

PIOT Bord

3rd Jun 2008, 10:39

It was a bad hair day in Melbourne today (FOG must have affected it). The average delay for all QF international departures was 6 Hours, 48mins.
That doesn't include the cancelled flights or a blow out in times for those still to go.

Now that morale has risen, I think that you would be able to drastically reduce the length of the delays if we had;-
1) enough manpower to complete work required.
2) the parts available to carry out repairs when things broke.
3) a management that understood aviation and showed respect.
4) workable procedures manuals.
5) the equipment required to do he job.
6) a CEO concerned about staff and customers (FOG again).
7) Oh yes, that's right, and 5%.

Toolpants

3rd Jun 2008, 11:17

I would love to see a graph of annual leave and sick leave now.

Qf must be hating seeing all that annual leave accumulating, always looks bad on the financial report.

The union should tell Dickson they don’t want to meet him this week if the word “3%” is going to be used. The LAMEs are quite happy to continue like this for a lot longer yet. As we are all noticing, moral just keeps getting better. I'm loving it. The most fun I had in years.

Razor

3rd Jun 2008, 11:28

I was privileged to witness the professional and careful way that some of your compatriots attended to a problem we had the other night. 3 of you all working together as a team to attempting to get it right so we could try and get out before curfew beat us. When beaten by the curfew (not your fault) we had to overnight the people and crew. Nearly every passenger was happy that everything that could have been done prior to the time we had to say sorry - "curfew has beaten us".
The job was done properly, thoroughly, and in a timely fashion. At no stage did I see any engineering staff going slow or making the job more difficult than it is. It is very satisfying and re-assuring to see this occurring. I am only sad that there have been resource pressures on you in the past and that management are trying to put the blame on you.

One word that affects this airline - resources.
Take away resources and you take away the ability to do the job properly. As a pilot, engineer, cabin crew, ground staff, caterer, clerk, payroll officer,etc..... we all are finding it hard to do the job properly and effectively with the "tools" we have been given.
Selling off these resources as been a big part of the profits that have been % points in managements pockets. We can only work with what we are given.
Somehow we must be responsible for the price of oil:ugh:

wanty

3rd Jun 2008, 12:41

The union should tell Dickson they don’t want to meet him this week if the word “3%” is going to be used. The LAMEs are quite happy to continue like this for a lot longer yet. As we are all noticing, moral just keeps getting better. I'm loving it. The most fun I had in years.

Priceless isn't it, you can almost hear them talking (squirming) about how to solve a problem they created.:=:=:=:{:{:{

The Black Panther

3rd Jun 2008, 17:42

http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/qantas-hit-by-long-delays/2008/06/04/1212258833814.html

Qantas hit by long delays

Scott Rochfort
June 4, 2008

QANTAS has blamed "technical issues" for the recent spate of delays and cancellations of its Boeing 747 flights, which culminated in a flight to London leaving about 24 hours late yesterday due to engine problems and the discovery of several blocked toilets.
After seeing off a flight from Sydney to Los Angeles more than 22 hours late and a flight to Bangkok 18 hours late on Monday, Qantas flight QF31 finally took-off at 4.22pm yesterday.
"We're investigating how this occurred," a Qantas spokesman said, referring to the blocked toilets. "We have experienced some international delays in recent days and this has been a result of technical issues."
A 747 flight to Hong Kong was also cancelled. The airline conceded the industrial dispute with its licensed aircraft maintenance engineers was starting to have an impact. Overtime bans were biting despite signs of a potential breakthrough in wage talks.
Even before the union held its first stopwork meetings last week Qantas had problems with its ageing fleet of 747s. About two weeks ago a 747-300 flight from Perth to Sydney was delayed by 20 hours.
The nightmare for passengers on flight QF31 to London, which was due to leave at 4.55pm on Monday, started when they were told the 747 was having engine problems. Passengers were forced to disembark at 10pm when the engine failed. They were put up in hotels, with the new departure confirmed for 10.30am.
Passengers passed through customs a second time, only to be told the flight was delayed until 1pm. Then, just as it was to take off, engineers were called to tend to a blocked toilet. Soon the captain reported several blocked toilets.
"It will be a very long time before I travel with Qantas again," one passenger said in an email.