Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[Sunfish]

Aeromedic:

The answer is simple...............

The maintenance on these new aircraft will not be carried by QF engineers except for line maint.

Already the current maintenance program is being planned to be moved OS as we speak.

The board does not care who does the maintenance, just so long as it is cheap.
Compliance is another issue as well, and will only be dealt with as the need arises.


...You forgot to add that the Board will be making these decisions irrespective of whether you accept 3% or go for 5%

You also forgot to add that by the time these decisions bite QF very hard on the backside, the current Board and Management will have taken their share options, bonuses and magnificent salaries and will be long gone, possibly even in nursing homes.

Smart Corporate Boards now do an audit of corporate health and capability before paying Executive bonuses, precisely to stop Executives from generating short term profits (and huge bonuses) by destroying long term value through the sort of short term management thinking allegedly evident in Qantas......But the Board of QF isn't very smart.

My own view of the matter is that if QF is silly enough to take its maintenance offshore and out of Australia, it will eventually bite them very hard on the backside. All it requires is a diplomatic stoush between Australia and the country where the aircraft are maintained and all of a sudden your planes aren't coming home any time soon.

Or to put it another way, I don't think QF undertand what the term Force Majeure means.


Force Majeure (French for "greater force") is a common clause in contracts which essentially frees both parties from liability or obligation when an extraordinary event or circumstance beyond the control of the parties, such as war, strike, riot, crime, act of nature (e.g., flooding, earthquake, volcano), prevents one or both parties from fulfilling their obligations under the contract.

Or to put it simply, I hope QF don't decide to get their aircraft maintained in Sichuan.

[grouter]

I wish people would stop posting in a foreign anguage to show us how intelligent they are. The only non-english phrase I know is:
NIL DESPERANDUM ILLIGITIMUS CARBORUNDUM.
It means, don't let the bastards grind you down.
Stay strong, keep smiling and stay together and we will win.

[REALITY]

Any chance you or someone else knows the exact location (as in chapter etc) where one can find the procedural requirement to ensure you are up to speed with maint memo's, cts and the like prior to starting each shift??


Perhaps a quick fax of the document to each line maint port will help!?!:D

[Sunfish]

Grouty, you mus bin brung up wrongg.

Force Majeure is the actual name of a good old English legal concept. It's not a "Foreign Language" thing at all.

Good luck all with your PIA.

[dr skydrol]

Bluescope steel just given their workers 5% increase.
Did anyone see the front page of Evening standard (pommy paper) BA ceo turns down 700,000 pound bonus. Says it would be wrong for him to accept that with the chaos at terminal 5 and all those bags that went missing. What a guy.

I've said it before slow and steady wins the race.Maint manual and the PPM are our friends. Don't deviate.
Take a look what your doing this airline MR DICKson. That strikebreak account must be wiltering with all these delays.

[sniggiH]

I feel compelled to make my first post because of the trouble/delays down south.Its not all doom and gloom.I wont say my job or station but its in far NQ. I only see the tarmac through glass.We have a new leadership team including my subordinate notseW.I have a good grounding being an ex ALAEA rep and my father showed me great morals.He kept working, keeping the planes flying in the pilots dispute when everyone else was on strike and resigning. I will apply these morals to this dispute. But the house and car didn't fair so well receiving various artworks and their fair share of smeared animal waste.I hope this doesnt happen again. We have moulded the seniors very well up here getting all of them (except one) to preach the company line. It was very satisfying to get G.F to fold i thought he was made of more substance than that! The amount of overtime being worked is great with the union rep moose:hmm: leading the way. S.P is doing well too. Its a good kick in the guts from him to the union after all the resources they used just keeping him employed over the years. Its business as usual up here with no sevice disruptions and people willing to work overtime. We have the spineless plebs on this station just where we want them. They dont have the substance to stick together. There are a few militant bad seeds but we will put as much pressure on them as we can.Hope the other stations are doing just as well.:DG.H

[wanty]

So there I was, starting at my appointed time today, hanging around "the bench" just before start-time the SLAME gives me an arrival scheduled to arrive 5 minutes after my start-time.


Tick tock..ding...It's start time .......

I said to him, do you want me to go and do that arrival now ?

Yes he said, so looking him in the eye I said, you mean you are telling me to ignore the procedures manual and NOT read the maintenance memos and my CTS messages prior to commencing work ?


He found someone else to do that arrival, BUT WHY DID THEY DO IT WITHOUT READING THE PROCEDURES MANUAL FIRST ?

You are required to catch up with the maintenance memos PRIOR to commencing work !!!

SpannerTwister


My sentiments exactly.

One should also NOT be made to feel guilty about this by senior Lames and DMM'S either.

[HARDNUT]

Sniggih. One question. Are you going to put your hand out for the pay rise when we win? Its sad to hear your station obviously townsville or cairns seems divided.:ugh:

[The Black Panther]

Better still why don't go give to charity ever pay rise generated by the efforts of the ALAEA since you began employ with QF. Then go and negotiate an individual payrise with DC. I doubt you would have the skills though nor the fortitude.

Just a parasite aren't you?

I feel sorry for you. Perhaps one day you will still stand tall and get up from you knees. I doubt it though.


Keep trying to get some reaction here though it may give you some pseudo self esteem and prolong your insignificant existence.

[Talkwrench]

Well well well, I was wondering how long it would take before the pot stirrers would make their move with their reports of division in the ranks. It only took 5 days. I guess the action is hurting. I cant understand how sniggiH links 'great morals' with being a strikebreaking anti unionist. He claims he used to be an ALAEA rep! I guess we can all be thankful that he and all the other ex reps of his calibre and 'great moral standing' are no longer representing the memberships views. All everyone needs to know is that the action is working. Dont worry too much what everyone else is doing, just do your bit and we'll all be fine.

[sickofqf]

I think sniggih is pretending to be an ex-SIT lame who went up to the third floor as training coordinator many moons ago and worked his way into the FNQ Line managers position. Nothing personal against the guy, haven't had anything to do with him since he left SIT at least a decade ago.
GH as the initials at the end is a bit of a giveaway, although I doubt it's really him!

Apparantly another ex-training coordinator has also been positioned to strike break at a line station...now him I would indeed have a problem with as he likes to pretend he's still one of the boys!! :=:=:=

[dr skydrol]

SniggiH
You are no better than the Jews who used to assist the Germans in ww2 rounding up other Jews to send them to their death. If your morals are so great as you self assure yourself they are, then when this is all said and done you will say to QF I only want a 3% payrise.:confused:.
Put your money where your mouth is strikebreaker. Still hurting cause your peers voted you out for being in bed with QF with our previous union leadership.
This management won't be here forever. You will be remembered. :*

[Short_Circuit]

Sounds like there has been bulling & harassment up there in Cairns !! :=

[wanty]

STAND FIRM, LOL,

DELAYS DELAYS DELAYS

[division1]

sniggiH
The amount of overtime being worked is great with the union rep moose leading the way

Please explain numbnuts, I'm not aware of any union rep called moose up north.

[Mr Qantas]

With only a few minor delays today i thinking I wont be called to come back for a while. Nice to see that the Sydney Domestic troops have done all in there power to oppose the radical union plans to delay flights. :ok::):p:D






QF1465 Canberra 19/05/2008
06:00am 19/05/2008
06:00am T3-58 Completed
QF401 Melbourne 19/05/2008
06:00am 19/05/2008
06:00am T3-2 Completed
QF500 Brisbane 19/05/2008
06:05am 19/05/2008
06:05am T3-17 Completed
QF565 Perth 19/05/2008
06:10am 19/05/2008
06:10am T3-8 Completed
QF405 Melbourne 19/05/2008
06:30am 19/05/2008
06:30am T3-5 Completed
QF502 Brisbane 19/05/2008
06:35am 19/05/2008
06:35am T3-11 Completed
QF1461 Canberra 19/05/2008
06:45am 19/05/2008
06:45am T3-58 Completed
QF403 Melbourne 19/05/2008
06:45am 19/05/2008
06:45am T3-4 Completed
QF409 Melbourne 19/05/2008
07:00am 19/05/2008
07:05am T3-10 Completed
QF504 Brisbane 19/05/2008
07:05am 19/05/2008
07:20am T3-12 Completed
QF735 Adelaide 19/05/2008
07:10am 19/05/2008
07:10am T3-13 Completed
QF407 Melbourne 19/05/2008
07:15am 19/05/2008
07:15am T3
QF803 Canberra 19/05/2008
07:20am 19/05/2008
07:20am T3-2 Completed
QF411 Melbourne 19/05/2008
07:30am 19/05/2008
07:50am T3 Completed
QF506 Brisbane 19/05/2008
07:35am 19/05/2008
07:35am T3-3 Completed
QF1463 Canberra 19/05/2008
07:40am 19/05/2008
07:55am T3-58 Completed
QF415 Melbourne 19/05/2008
08:00am 19/05/2008
08:10am T3 Completed
QF508 Brisbane 19/05/2008
08:05am 19/05/2008
08:10am T3 Completed
QF787 Canberra 19/05/2008
08:10am 19/05/2008
08:50am T3 Completed
QF739 Adelaide 19/05/2008
08:20am 19/05/2008
08:20am T3 Completed

[wanty]

Early days pal, early days

[600ft-lb]

why would the first flights of the day go out late considering theyre all serviceable ?

and if people can't read the tone in the postings by higgins, then read harder. (hint: its a pisstake)

[Big Enis Burdett]

While your at it Mr Qantas how about posting Sunday's (18/5) delay list.

All 6 pages please.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

ALAEA notice just issued.




Firstly I would like to thank members for their solidarity over the weekend. There were only a couple of hiccups that we have been informed of. The first being a LAME who travelled to Alice Springs on his day off to cover for a Qantas employee who is currently on sick leave. We have spoken to the member who advises that management told him it was ok to do travelling duties on your day off. This is not the case and members should be well aware that Qantas may say anything to get you to break rank. Please call us for clarification on any matter where you have been asked to do something that you would not normally do on a day to day basis. In this instance members should be aware –

Overtime bans are in place for your day off. Do not accept additional work, or travel to alternative worksites during this period within or outside Australia. Do not accept shift changes to assist the company without our written guidance.

In another instance a DMM was known to have pushed an aircraft back after all other Engineers in the section had gone home. As his office was unattended during this period and no alternative Qantas man down procedure in place to safely carry out the pushback, a report has been lodged for breach of Qantas procedures. Members should be aware that the ALAEA will be encouraging all members to report LAMEs or strikebreakers who cut corners in order to dampen the effects of our Protected Action. Members should continue to work strictly to the rules defined in the various Maintenance and Qantas procedure manuals.

Discussion has continued over the weekend around the country about our decision to postpone the stop work meetings planned for last and next Friday. Members are reminded that the ACTU have offered us assistance so that we can achieve our objectives but they will not be making our decisions. ACTU Secretary Jeff Lawrence has written to Geoff Dixon seeking further meetings with an objective to discuss the outdated Qantas 3% wage policy. A copy of the letter is attached.

Finally, I wanted to share with members part of an email I received from a Qantas DMM on Friday. His questions were extremely valid and understandable from our members in the DMM position. It also must be highlighted that DMMs are covered by the Agreement we are negotiating and they participated in the democratic process that saw over 80% of our members supporting Protected Industrial action. Nearly all DMMs are ALAEA members and should not consider themselves part of the management team that are sharing in large company bonuses by limiting our wages to less than inflation.

Question-With ref to alaea notice QF 046/2008, can you please clarify my legal position as a DMM. In para 2 you mention that a DMM is an essential component of man-down and other critical procedures, yet in para 5 over the page you mention that the DMM must attend the stop work meetings. All DMM's in the company need to ensure we are legally covered with respect to WorkCover NSW. The DMM is the area warden within the building and as such is the emergency point of contact for apprentices, trade assistants and other administrative staff within their work environment who may still be at work. As such we may be legally responsible if whilst attending a stop work meeting one of these staff members are injured at work.

I have not read any notices issued by the alaea explaining their discussions with WorkCover around these issues. Forgive me if you have contacted them and have not had time to issue a notice, but I believe this information is essential prior to any stop work meetings to ensure you and I are not sitting in a court room together defending ourselves against WorkCover in the event of an incident occurring whilst at a meeting. As far as I understand protected action protects our job only and does not protect us against WorkCover and other authorities.

I have obtained my own advice around this issue but it was only verbal and as such may not stand up in court. Could you please obtain this legal advice and issue a notice defining a DMM's responsibilities during these times to ensure we are covered. Please do not read into this email and surmise as to where I am heading, I have a duty to support my mates and invest in our future but at the same time have a duty of care to other staff within my area, therefore this clarification is essential for anyone in this position of responsibility with WorkCover NSW.”


Response –“You’re spot on here regarding the responsibilities of your DMM role, it's not a job that can be left derelict by the person carrying out that role for various safety reasons. When you take part in a stop work meeting, the DMM role does not belong to you and I will elaborate I bit further.

When we withdraw our labour in pursuit of a fair and reasonable wage outcome, we do so because the company we are dealing with are not taking us seriously or valuing our contribution. We test that by putting the company in a situation that highlights our value by withdrawing our services. For a LAME, that means his transit duties, certification, rectification, supervision of AMEs, time preparing for new work etc.... For a Snr LAME this also includes the Supervision of his crew, allocation of work and the other additional responsibilities he holds. When you as a DMM stop work (and don't get paid) you leave the premises as you would any other time you finish your shift. You withdraw what you provide which is all your normal duties including the duty of care to staff in your area. You don't just withdraw the aspects of your job that the company can do without, that would defeat the purpose. You need to let the company know that you are valuable, can't be replaced by untrained staff and deserve a wage rise at least in line with inflation

The genuine concern I sense you hold for AMEs and apprentices in the section are legally covered by the Protected Industrial Action process. Although protection ensures that the airline cannot terminate your employment there are certain other phases of the workplace legislation that also absolve you of responsibility if you were to take part in legal Protected Action. When the legislation was drafted, this was catered for by ensuring that unions were required to give 3 business days notice to employers so they could put in place contingency plans. It is no secret that Newport Aviation are on standby with many strikebreakers earning about twice your wage to take over your responsibilities. If you take part in a stop work meeting and something happens whilst you are away, that is Qantas's responsibility, not yours as we have given them ample notice that you will be absent.

As one of the younger DMMs in the country I do understand that you may feel somewhat confused about your current position. This confusion was certainly created years ago when they introduced the new DMM title. It made our Foreman and Supervisors feel like they are part of the management team. Quite simply it was part of the divide and conquer strategy. I sit back watching from a distance now and wonder why so many DMMs strive to please many of today's managers who have never laid a hand on a tool, managers who have jumped over the best LAMEs in this country to become Engineering leaders when they had failed in their pursuits to even attain a single aircraft licence, I sit back and think, you would have a better chance of moving a further step up the ladder if you went a got yourself an Arts degree.

DMM's have a title but they do not share in the management bonuses. Some feel like they are the meat in the sandwich but they only feel like that because they allow management to manipulate them. DMMs are covered entirely by the same wage agreement as a level 3 LAME. DMMs are not categorised as staff although management may wish you to think that way in order to have you break rank and stay back to supervise strikebreakers. At the end of the day, all DMMs in this country will benefit from the stand being made by all ALAEA LAMEs taking part in the Protected Action. I strongly urge you to continue to think of your workmates, fellow members and their families who are making the sacrifices that we all hope will bring the fair wage offer that has been long overdue.”

[indamiddle]

sniggi has actually made 2 posts. the first one agreed with PAF!!!
to all staff going to bkk, fly thai or emirates, delays for the last 2 days brilliant on qf 1

[acslame]

Does any one know what happened with the tail pipe fire in sin?
Hopefully none of our guys went to get it!
AOG aircraft always got the companys attention

[sickofqf]

rumour around the place today is GE will be doing the engine change.....

....as for the rest of the damage I guess SIA or SASCO will send their highly skilled chaps........

Guess that'll mean several pages of holds when it stumbles home.........:eek:

[acslame]

sad but true!!!!!!

[amstrang]

Mr Qantas,
How about doing a daily report?
Just email it to all QF Lame's.

Maybe you could get one of the "special contract" guys to do it while he's waiting, after all you might as well get something for the money!

I'll look forward to reading mine if you dare!

[dr skydrol]

Do you want to be remembered as the CEO who killed Qantas. Happy retirement.:{.

[Millet Fanger]

Is there any feedback from the ACTU meeting?

Word has it Qantas is hunting around SQ for expat LAME's ? To join the Malaysian LAME's hoteled in Sydney...

[blubak]

When was the actu meeting happening?

[Toolpants]

Word has it Qantas is hunting around SQ for expat LAME's ? To join the Malaysian LAME's hoteled in Sydney...


If they find any, they should get them to fix QPA in SIN before they come down.

[NAS1801]

ACTU meeting was scheduled for Monday, it was postponed until tomorow. Representatives from all Qantas Engineering unions to attend.

In his letter to Dixon, ACTU Secretary Jeff Lawrence stated...

....it is of serious concern that a major and profitable Australian company would seek to impose a salary cut in real terms. Qantas workers have previously accepted a wage freeze to assist the company in difficult times but with a record profit forecast this is not acceptable....and.....

It is also quite shocking to view contracts negotiated by Qantas management and to in turn witness your refusal to deny that Qantas is in the process of engaging overseas contract labour to replace ALAEA members in the event that industrial action is taken pursuant to the bargaining notice provided by the union. It is dated 16th May 2008.

To quote a Qantas spokesperson from this article, dated 20th May 2008 (Today).....

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/unions-inflate-qantas-case/2008/05/19/1211182704321.html

He said the airline had yet to receive a letter from the ACTU requesting talks.Bloody liars!

[Acute Instinct]

Mr Fed Sec, I think your info stream has been simply brilliant, though I must say, nothing will replace face to face discussions. To avoid misunderstanding each other, I believe a stop work meeting may be in order, to clarify some challenging issues we all face.

[Take five]

Geoff Dixon, over and over again, keeps saying that the ALAEA have reneged on "An Agreement In Principle", supposedly struck in January 2008.

I have always thought that WE, the members, ARE THE ALAEA.

We the members have NEVER, EVER agreed to that deal after the 18 months of supposed negotiation (not).

There has been no negotiation, just a steamrollering by QF.

[Mr Invisible]

I must say that the recent media attention over the ALAEAs PIA and the resultant 'contingencies' put in place has put quite a bit of pressure on Mr Dixon so much so that I would have loved to be a fly on the wall of the latest 'emergency' meeting called by the Qantas board.

The result of that was Geoff coming out in the press and stating that "There will be no lockout, no dogs and men in balaclavas and we have no intention of replacing our workforce"

I believe that the executive of the ALAEA is doing things right, carefully planning each move and drawing out the enemy when it appears their intentions are unsavory and un-Australian

SCABs have NO PLACE in this country

An email floating around the network suggests that at this moment more than a dozen of these alternative workforce have had their contracts canceled at MAS and legal action may be pending for breech of contract

To those that have thanked the executive for their efforts on this forum, I agree and again thank them on this forum but I have gone one step further and sent a personal email to the office expressing my feelings to them all.
Can I suggest you all do the same

As a slight topic drift, I am told there is a B767 grounded in MEL at the moment with what might be a fleet wide problem can anyone shed some light on this ?

[sickofqf]

Mr Invisible said
As a slight topic drift, I am told there is a B767 grounded in MEL at the moment with what might be a fleet wide problem can anyone shed some light on this ?


Yikes, it sounds a bit too Ansett for my liking........

[Short_Circuit]

GD & DC

If you are having problems finding alternate LAMEs, even though you are offering THEM $240.000.00 p/a
How the hell do you think you will get any for $80.000 once this is over and most of the loyal staff has goooone!


What you loose today will be lost forever! :ugh:

[chockchucker]

VH_ZXB stuck in Melbourne since Sunday afternoon with a leaky drip tray.


Many water and coffee contaminated LRU's and electrical connectors with E2 equipment racks being removed.

Me thinks it won't be going anywhere for a while, with the state of the previous incorrect application of sealant to the drip tray having possible fleet wide implications.

[71TRIDENT]

I read GD's response to the ACTU letter with some amusement, I did not get 3% plus a bonus last year. If we got 3% last year, then mine must have been thrown into GD's honeypot. But the good news is that I guess bonuses can be counted as pay risesin all situations, what does this turn Management's pay rise into percentage wise?

[Bolty McBolt]

:}
Seem to remember a drip sheild above the center equipment center, forward cargo on the 744. Always gets broken by step on damage.
I doubt many in tech services would bless this kind of damage.
Might need repairing before next flight especially if the weather was damp.....:ok:

[The masked goatrider]

Is there a bug going around in Melbourne?

8 sick today at MDT, 6 sick tonight MDT, 12 sick today at MIT and only 12 left on duty (50% sick). They must have all swallowed the same crap news from GD yesterday.

VH-EBV now delayed approx 24 hours, MAS on deck 24 hours, 4 aircraft on grd in total for the whole of yesterday. And then there is ZXB. :{

[Toolpants]

There are also a lot sick at the moment in my port.

Must be a pandemic or epidemic bug. (I can never remember which one)

[Anulus Filler]

Is there a bug going around in Melbourne?

8 sick today at MDT, 6 sick tonight MDT, 12 sick today at MIT and only 12 left on duty (50% sick). They must have all swallowed the same crap news from GD yesterday.

VH-EBV now delayed approx 24 hours, MAS on deck 24 hours, 4 aircraft on grd in total for the whole of yesterday. And then there is ZXB.



MR QANTAS...Delay stats please!!!

You seem a bit quiet today.

[AlanShore]

Well Wingers?

[dr skydrol]

hello brothers,

No one doing anything stupid or out of the ordinary just working to the PPM the MM and under duress due lack of staff with OT bans.:ok:
Its hard to believe we have only been on industrial action for a week now.
Keep up the good work brothers. Keep the planes safe.
Its about time the board wakes up and outs that meglamaniac before there's not enough money to buy a cessna.
I think QE management must be thanked though for their ridiculous procedures they have put in place. They really should take the credit for the deteriation of our once great airline.

[acslame]

The really crazy thing about all this is that we are not
even following all the ppm cts EQ requirements to the letter
YET and see what is happening.
Imagine what will happen when the boys get serious!!!!!!!!!
I wonder weather our so called management team are starting
to get the picture.
I almost wish they would stand someone down so the whole
network could walk.
GO ON piss people off even more and see what happens to your
beloved shedule.

[sickofqf]

HIGHLIGHT OF THE DAY- Mr 'Dick'son to travel on OJD QF5. 1555 sched dept.Late from maint "A CHK". When arrived on bay at 1600 still 3 hours work left to carry out. Mr 'Dick'son then transferred to the British Airways flight.QF5 still hasn't departed yet.

I wonder what the QF5 passengers, especially the first and business, would think of seeing the QANTAS Chief Exec tootling off to a free British Airways seat leaving them all to sit and wait for an aircraft hopelessly delayed by his own ineptitude.........:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=

Rat abandoning a sinking ship perhaps............:ok:

[Short_Circuit]

Any truth to the rumour Geoff Dixon is off to Asia to secure his new job as head of
an Asian MRO to take over Australian Engineering work with all his Inside Knowledge,
to the determent of Australian workers and conditions?
By the timing of his imminent departure from QANTAS and his so called retirement, it does
not sound so far fetched..... :=

I hope the Mr Kevin Rudd is watching this one VERY carefully.

[2b2]

if that story is true, the media SHOULD have a field day with it.

Interesting to see if they do.

[Short_Circuit]

I'm wondering what the pax of QF5 think about those who actually caused their delays. Pop up to the departure gate and let them know. Honestly..

If the PAX only knew that the guys worked hard & IAW regulations to ensure a serviceable aircraft they would be very pleased. :ok:

QANTAS CEO Geoff Dixon flies British Airways. :eek:

BA must have better on time departures and inflight reliability. :p

[Yakfivefive]

Heard rumor the boy's down Avalon way may be going for PIA as well HHMMM (Forstaff)

[Nigd3]

All the best to you lads
I considered a move from Europe to Sydney to work for Qantas as a PE, as I had a distant impression that Qantas was a great airline to work for. However after seeing the goings on and getting more facts on the situation, I declined to take the interview process further.
After receiving a questionaire from Qantas requesting 3 main things that would make Qantas a more attractive prospective employer I wrote the following:
1 - Higher salary for living in an expensive area like Sydney
2 - Better management-workforce relationship
3 - A better public image of Qantas (or something like that)

Apologies for the rather lame (no pun intended) responses. I was limited to no. of characters and decided against saying "your management sucks and should be kicked out f*ckin pronto". You never know I might apply again when/if things get better. Not under GD though.

I really hope you get a decent and in my opinion, not unreasonable, salary increase.

NigD

[Sunfish]

SickofQF:

Rat abandoning a sinking ship perhaps............

Nope, passengers abandoning a sinking rat.

As for Mr. Dixon, my guess is that he neither knows nor cares what's happening with delays - yet.

He doesn't know because narcissists make it very clear (I don't really understand how they do this) what they want to hear and what they don't want to hear. For example, never correct a narcissist when they make a mistake, even if it's only a minor slip, you will earn their undying hatred.

Since narcissists have penetrated management from the top all the way down, you can be sure that bad news is being carefully filtered out at each level, and what can't be filtered out is being blamed on mechanical failure or anything but the engineers dispute. So nobody in senior management yet has any idea of the scope of what's happening.

Mr. Dixon will only "get the message" when it is passed down to him by someone he sucks up to, be it a Politician, large shareholder, or a Senior business person whose Board he wishes to one day join. He won't get the message relayed up to him by the little unimportant people who work for him.

As for customers and customer complaints, he doesn't give a Flying F**k, remember his letter to the residents of Hamilton Island?

I suggest that QF is going to suffer serious deterioration before you get a moment of Mr. Dixon's attention.

[max1]

PAF,

About 240 years ago, some people considered they were getting the shaft from their 'masters'. That they were being milked and not getting much back in return.
They decided they weren't going to stand for it anymore. They appealed to their 'masters' and it all fell on deaf ears. Eventually they put on a blue that was damaging to both them and their 'masters' and other third parties. This led to the creation of that bastion of the capitalist system the USA. If you were around in those days what would have been your advice to the Founding Fathers?

[capt.cynical]

From Crikey.com.au12 . Qantas trip a Fawlty Towers fever dreamDisgruntled Qantas passenger John Sneddon writes:Last week I was prepared to give Qantas CEO Geoff Dixon the benefit of the doubt when listening to his opposition to a 5% pay rise for engineers. However having attempted to fly from Brisbane to Sydney on the 10.15am Qantas flight (QF517) on Saturday morning I am not so sure. My experience was like a Fawlty Towers fever dream. Upon arrival at the airport nice and early with 2 excited children (aged 5 and 3) in tow, my wife and I were notified our flight would be delayed 20 minutes due to the late arrival of our aircraft. Initially we didn't mind the short delay as we had the opportunity to ensure we were all seated together and calm down our excited offspring. However the delay was quickly bumped out another 20 minutes for good measure. We were then told our plane had arrived but we would be delayed another half an hour while they repaired a water leak in the luggage hold. After 30 minutes we were told we would be delayed further while they "sourced" (their word) a replacement piece of hose. We were then told Qantas needed a new plane which would arrive in 20 minutes "or so". The next announcement informed us the new aircraft would leave in 1 hour and ten minutes or "perhaps a little longer". Passengers who had connecting international flights were understandably irate and had to deal with a cynical spokesandroid sorely lacking in PR skills (who incidentally, bore a striking resemblance to the Steve Vizard Qantas steward character -- he didn't hum the opening bars to Les Miserables, but you get the picture). My wife was informed that no refreshments would be provided to our young children, because they didn't deserve it "yet". She was urged to "Read [her] contract. We just agree to get you from A to B, not get you there on time." I must remember to look for that line in the next "I still call Australia home" advertising campaign.When the plane finally arrived, several flights were squeezed onto the one aircraft, creating mayhem with the boarding passes. Passengers who finally got to the departure gate were sent back to the aforementioned spokesandroid to get new boarding passes; a technicality which had not occurred to management until they invited passengers to board the aircraft. When we finally got our new boarding passes, I discovered the kids and I were seated about 20 rows from my wife, which had the potential to cause a few difficulties if one child needed the toilet mid-flight. When I pointed this out I was informed by a frustrated screen jockey there were no vacant seats around me and I would have to "deal with it". By now I regarded this inconvenience as the least of my worries, and happily agreed to do so. But once the aircraft's doors were closed I was amused to discover an empty seat right next to me which the long-suffering flight attendants permitted my wife to sit in once we were airborne. Not that we got into the skies in a hurry. We had to sit on the tarmac for another 20 minutes because (wait for it) ... they couldn't get one of the jet engines started! (I swear to God I'm not making this up) When the cabin crew announced that they needed to find some gizmo called an "air starter", the entire plane erupted in hysterical laughter. It was a touching moment. The passengers had bonded together in the face of almost comical adversity. By now we were beyond caring and actually starting to enjoy the show. The next announcement was a classic. We were told to not worry about the smoke off the starboard bow because that was just the exhaust from the elusive "air starter" and not a sign that the plane was on fire. Even the cynical amongst us started to belly-laugh. One wit seated near me asked if we were actually bound for Yogyakarta. I know the joke was in bad taste but I guess you had to be there. Eventually the plane took off 3 hours late. You may regard this as just another whinging passenger story but it was so comical as to be a cause for concern. I heard one man complain that his earlier flight was delayed and he was bumped onto our farcical flight. So that was potentially 2 or 3 flights merged into one. I assume there is some sort of cost benefit in that, but there was no suggestion of this being shared with the frustrated passengers. My wife also overheard the cabin staff saying rolling delays were being experienced as a result of fog at Brisbane airport, but the fog had certainly cleared when we arrived at the airport at 8.30am and we were never informed the situation was the result of bad weather. The cabin crew were understandably pleased that they only had to make 2 flights that day instead of 4. Whether the farce was caused by fog, the late arrival of our aircraft, a leaky hose, insufficient spare parts, a boarding pass stuff up, or a jet engine that wouldn’t start, remains to be seen. Perhaps it was a combination of all of these factors. The messages we received were so conflicting that I will honestly never know.Whatever it was, it was a PR nightmare, and its timely proximity to Geoff Dixon's assertions that a 5% pay rise for engineers was something he was prepared to descend into the trenches for made the experience all the more difficult to swallow. There was however a positive for Qantas management to consider when they review this incident (assuming they ever actually do so). The flight attendants were marvellous. The poor wretches had to handle the antagonism of frustrated passengers and present a smiling face when confronted by the prolonged and embarrassing incompetence of their employer. When the passengers laughed at Qantas, they laughed with us, and who could blame them? They handled their job with aplomb and calmed the situation down admirably.If only the spokesandroid had been more like the cabin crew.Send your tips to [email protected], submit them anonymously here or SMS tips and photos to 0427 TIP OFF.Comment on this articleSend this article to a friendBack to Index--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[POT100]

I HEAR THEY ARE HAVING FUN IN THE WEST THESE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS..5 INTERNATIONAL DELAYS YESTERDAY,ALL BEFORE 10AM..AIRCRAFT BROKEN,AIRCRAFT SWAPS, LACK OF LICENSES... AND NOT FORGETTING LACK OF MORALE..WHAT THE F:mad:CK'S HAPPENED TO QF'S 767S THESE DAYS????...2 YRS AGO THEY WERE IN PRISTINE CONDITION!!!..

[acslame]

PAF , are you suggesting that management
go up to the gate and talk to the disgruntled passengers?
I would like to see that as well, after all they are the ones
who really caused these delays arn't they!!

[rudderless1]

21 May 2008
TO: ALAEA MEMBERS - FORTAFF AVALON
RE: FORSTAFF EBA UPDATE 21 MAY
The Unions met with Management yesterday to pursue improved wages & conditions for
your EBA. The ALAEA were represented by Federal Secret&-Steve Purvinas, Industrial
Officer-Brad Stewart and Workplace Representatives Gus Shea, Tom Rozario, Yusoff
Abdul Ghani and George Andrades (Paras Parasram & Stephen Thorpe were apologies).
Whilst the negotiations covered outstanding clauses for the Agreement, the following key
issues were discussed yesterday with management;
1. The ALAEA has unequivocally rejected a 3% wage increase and on the basis of current
inflation. We have advised Forstaff that we are seeking 6% pa.
2. The union is not seeking changes to the overtime banking clauses and is adamant that
the status quo remain.
3. The parties have agreed in principle to remove reference to XPT in the disputes settling
procedure.
4. The parties are at odds with the $1,000 performance bonus and have not reached
agreement. The ALAEA has concerns about links to performance pay that we have no
control over.
5. The ALAEA is not convinced that a new agreement is necessary on the basis that the
current agreement still stands. If we were to accept a "workchoices agreement" we may
lose some conditions. As it stands members at Forstaff can remain on their existing terms
and conditions whilst receiving flow on wage rises from Qantas. Management were
advised that we will only be supporting a new agreement if wages and conditions are
improved.
After the meeting with management your Workplace Representatives met with ALAEA
union officials to discuss appropriate steps for members to take Protected Industrial Action
(PIA), should we not reach agreement with Forstaff Aviation. This step would only be
taken if members indicated to us that this is the direction they wished to travel in order to
apply pressure on Forstaff Aviation to agree to our terms for a new EBA.
"To undertake supervise and cerliy for the safety of all who ly. "
l

[blackbook]

Queensland Struggling Pansies are now Can Do Legends

With the crew down 5 lames they manage to achieve what they can't when they have the following, a full crew,over timers, rec leave and morale. Phase check completed and back by 4am.

At least the engineer from engine shop didn't succumb to QF pressure, giving no deferral for the boro.
I don't think he's part of the union but good on him.

I give up whats the point, you guy's probably voted to accept a lesser offer last EBA and voted for Howards I.R. Laws

You guys are all talk support your union or shut up.

[dr skydrol]

It is not the Lame who is willfully delaying Aircraft that was happening before PIA. It is just more delays now due to the goodwill gone and no one on OT to supplement manpower during heavy workloads. We no longer work thru mealbreaks to see the aircraft out on time. Looking for someone to blame its QE management. We are sick of being insulted.
Mr Dixon took a 26% increase last year. He says it will cost 360 million over the next 3 years to give 36,000 employees who pay taxes, high fuel costs,inflation, and higher interest rates a pay rise just above inflation. The company will make 4.5 billion over the next 3 years. Its peanuts. His 170 million dollar fund to sink us is half that money so wheres the common sense.Why are you trying to kill this Airline.Thank god the takeover bid failed (60 million GD would have made) or QF would have collapsed with their new owners Allco.
Our simple OT bans starting to have impact as MEL's expire and OSIP work backlogs. Let the scabs have their money. But don't give QF any reason to let them or their QF management Lames (most who haven't lifted a tool in decades) near the aircraft for the safety of the flying public.
I don't think there is any need to do anything more at this stage.Its only early days. As the shareholders lose confidence and the delays continue the share price will fall and that hits GD in his own wallet.The only thing he cares about. He would love nothing more than a big fight and it be over. Lets drain them.SLOW AND STEADY WILL WIN THE RACE. They can't continue like this or they will lose their business and first class pax and we all know they are the ones where we make our money.
QF just announced 4% increase infares due oil prices,thats on top of 3% a few months ago. Where is the ACCC> most of Qantas fuel is hedged at $95 a barrell.

[rudderless1]

http://www.qantas.com.au/flightinfo/do/dyn/DeparturesResponse
Sorry

The site is experiencing difficulties at present. We apologise for the delay and will endeavour to restore operations as soon as possible. Please try again in a short while. In the meantime you can contact us on 131313 within Australia or your nearest Qantas office for all other enquiries.

Thank you for your patience.


Must be getting embarrassing!:E Been shutdown a few days now.:{

[division1]

I'm most impressed with the support for calls on Mr Dixon to back down
on the 3% line in the sand. His latest announcement claims the majority
of qantas employees/unions are happy with 3% and the qantas LAMES
are being greedy and unreasonable in their 5% claim.
Seems the meeting of ALL unions representing Qantas workers voted
yesterday to support the lames and call on qantas to ditch the 3% limit
that Qantas dictates, is he mentally blind to the reality in the workplace.
Hopefully with Mr Lawence, ACTU secretary, leading the charge with a
fistfull of union resolutions and public condemnations, some satisfactory
agreement for all will be reached soon.

[Acute Instinct]

The last week has shown without doubt that QF Engineering is hopelessly addicted to overtime and goodwill for survival. The management have, through ruthless slashing, handed over the rope that suspends the guillotine over its head. The company committed itself to this dependancy. The dealer is playing hard ball. QF Engineering now shakes on its foundations like a once high class hooker going cold turkey. The inescapable realisation that without it to prop her up, she's just an empty shell. She's sold all the self respect she had, and now her children have turned against her. Her name? MS GREEDY

P.S. Just the thought of where we would be, under four more years of liberal bullying and sanctioned suppression. Gives me nightmares. GD's repetative nightmares? APA's final day, and election night! Then again it has to be asked, does he care?

[dr skydrol]

Division1 my sentiments excatly.
Thats why we must be patient stick to our OT bans whilst the government unravels the "workchoices" laws which still aren't in our favour.As they see the PIG headed CEO's we are faced with I am sure they will come to our aid.We aren't asking for anything stupid.
What a slap in the face to Mr 'Dick'son if in a few months when the TWU EBA runs out and the AWU at the end of the year. Then together one after another we begin 4 hour stop works one after the other. What a retirement gift to Dicky.Can you imagine the backlash.Remembered as the failure he is. And rather sour as he cashes in his share bonus' at 50 cents a piece.
Be patient guys don't hound our Alaea exec's who are doing a brilliant job. This won't be won overnight. We must give them our fullest support. Delays cost $350 a minute. Not doing OT costs us nothing. If the OT is hurting get a part time job in the meantime with all those days off you are having now.

[Ngineer]

Although delay numbers look like they are up, honestly ask yourself what's changed. Dispatch reliaility in most ports has been poor (to say the very least) for some time before O/T bans started, and it will never get any better under this management. As in the words of a great man, "A little less conversation, a little more action please..."

[Acute Instinct]

Yet another radio piece. This time its the ABC!http://www.abc.net.au/rn/breakfast/stories/2008/2246480.htm

Just hit download audio! Great Job Fed Sec

[Nepotisim]

Thursday Delays to remember.

QF 1 5hrs 7 mins
QF 5 6hrs 45 mins
QF 11 2hrs 17 mins
QF 45 2hrs 10 mins

Who knew O/T could make so much difference? :eek:

[Silmarillion]

I don't think anyone has gone too fix VH-QPA. The mud map at work shows the aircraft blanked out and off the schedule for the next 7 days. Oh dear what a shame never mind I'm sure DC or MH will find some so-so suitably licensed Singaporean bloke from their World's Best Practice facility up there to repair it and send it back to us, so we can Black Ban it, for them.

[Collando]

Dicksons resorted to lying now. Recent press release quotes him as saying that last Sept we recieved 3% plus $2000. Agree with the $2000 bonus but last EBA pay increase Jan 1st 2006. also stated we all recieve 10% super already.:eek:
Offers of another 1 % Super is also a con This in real terms equates to approx 1/2% wage increase of which you cant touch untill your 65. Given that the Government has already mooted that it may increase employer contributions to 10%, its probably something we will end up getting anyway

[Konehead]

First it was “the Asian financial crisis”, then came “9/11”, then it was “SARS”, and then “bird flu”. Now Qantas’ Chicken Little CEO is screaming the sky will fall in because of high oil prices. Whatever. We’ve heard it all before Geoff!

Granted, there is the usual panicked bleating in the media about high oil prices. But read a little deeper than the headlines and you’ll find these gems:

“BOEING believes oil prices will come back to a longer-term trend of $US70-80 a barrel.
The US aerospace giant does not itself analyse fuel trends but said the long-term view of its advisers was that the oil price would decrease.”
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23741779-23349,00.html (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23741779-23349,00.html).
And…
“Economists, however, believe crude could soon fall back to $US100, taking pressure off petrol and aviation fuel prices.” http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23744412-23349,00.html (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23744412-23349,00.html)

My point is, GD would have the best analysts in the business looking at fuel price trends, so he knows that these high oil prices are a speed hump and that they will eventually fall. He is using that knowledge and the current blip in prices to drive down wages.

A few more interesting points:

Qantas and Jetstar aircraft are flying slower to save fuel. “The unannounced moves, which follow similar actions by US airlines, are expected to save the carriers millions of dollars and reduce upward pressure on airfares… We have been conducting a trial where aircraft flights are taking a bit longer and burning less fuel. Early indications are that we are seeing positive savings in terms of fuel… This practice has led to fuel savings and lower carbon emissions without any significant impact on flight times." http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23744412-23349,00.html (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23744412-23349,00.html). Once those procedures are locked in, does anyone sane think a company would willingly relinquish those savings? And does a passenger really care if it takes 6 minutes longer to get to Perth. Indeed, it could be a selling point if QF badges it as “a green-house gas reduction measure”.
Qantas is increasing airfares. I quote an article in today’s Australian Business Backpage entitled “Dixon may be lucky buyout failed”: “The oil prices might be higher but so are airfares… so long as Dixon can get people paying higher fares and keep travelling, he is fine.” http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23743151-5013408,00.html (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23743151-5013408,00.html). (This is a very interesting article and I urge everyone to read it in its entirety. I have quoted from it further below.)
We are experiencing massive growth in air travel in the Asia Pacific region. Higher airfares may cut a few percentage points off this growth, but so what. There is that much growth in the pipeline that airlines simply can’t keep up. Not in capacity, nor pilots nor engineers. This growth will more than compensate for any drop-offs in demand from the US slowdown/recession. And keep in mind that the US is still an economic behemoth, so there will always be demand to a greater or lesser extent for air travel from that market.
The $200 million compensation from Airbus for A380 delays, and Qantas’ own forecast that compensation from Boeing for the B787 delays will be greater than that of the Airbus compensation; http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23741631-23349,00.html (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23741631-23349,00.html).
The possible sale of 40% of the Frequent Flyers program: another $1 billion. http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23743151-5013408,00.html (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23743151-5013408,00.html).
Qantas breaking into the next emerging market: Vietnam/South East Asia with its stake in Pacific Airlines.We all know Qantas is investing in increased capacity. With increased capacity comes the ability to fly slower and save fuel. New aircraft with lower maintenance requirements will provide savings per aircraft once the older fleet start getting retired. Also, the airlines are working with Air Services Australia, the EU, the FAA etc to streamline flying routes to save fuel. And AA is joining UAL to charge pax for baggage. How long before other airlines including QF follow their lead?

Airfares have been jacked up in Aus, as they have in the US. Chicken Little is also pointing to the US airline industry as a warning to us all. Job losses, mergers, bankruptcies, capacity cuts. But there are big differences between the US and Australia and their respective airlines:

The US is heading for or in recession.
The US airline industry is a bloated dead man walking. It needs structural adjustment to survive. So many of the airlines are flogging a dead horse by persisting with flying non-profitable routes with thirsty, expensive older aircraft. Change, downsizing etc is inevitable. Contrast this with Australia and Qantas.

We are ideally positioned to cash in on the new driver of the world economy, the Asia-Pacific region. Boeing says that 90% of its aircraft sales are to this region. Clearly, it’s where the growth is! The US is losing its position as the sole engine of the world’s economy.
QF “going forward” will be flying fuel-efficient aircraft types. QF has made the biggest order of B787s, after all!
QF has Jetstar to pick up lower profit routes.If, worst case, Qantas has to cut capacity well, OK, is that such a bad thing? “American Airlines has cut its by 12 per cent and the US industry association forecasts 20 per cent cuts across the industry. Given his domestic dominance, Dixon, in theory, has this angle covered as well, because his fleet is varied in age, which means much of it is completely written down in value. This makes it easy for him to shut down capacity by as much as 14 per cent without costing a cent. Then, of course, he has a low-cost carrier in Jetstar to pick up marginal routes.” http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23743151-5013408,00.html (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23743151-5013408,00.html).

Well how many times has GD said he is angling for capacity growth, not reduction? Orders for 65 B787s,12 A380s, umpteen A320s/A321s and more B737-800s to come.
And as you can imagine, like trying to claw back interest rate falls from the banks once they start falling, once airfares go up, they’ll probably stay up. The world airline industry will want to recoup some of those profits lost to high oil prices, so Qantas will benefit from that aspect of “competition”.

My point: all these factors will help pad Qantas’ bottom line. Both lots of compensation from Airbus and Boeing alone could pay for a 5% pay rise for ALL Qantas staff over the next few years and still leave the company with tens of millions in change. In a few years time, the US will be out of recession and helping drive the world economy; India, China, indeed the whole region will still be booming; our new fleet will be operating very efficiently both in terms of reduced maintenance costs per airframe and fuel, and things will be on the up and up for Qantas.

Has anyone heard QF announce forecast profit falls lately? Exactly. The silence is deafening.

And MY bottom line? I think QF can afford 5% for everyone, not just us.

[The masked goatrider]

GET WELL SOON

To the 26 out of 29 Mechanical LAMEs sick today in Mel Heavy.

[hi-speed tape]

.............and let's not forget the strong AU$, buys you a lot of fuel, even with high oil prices. It's all relative.
2 years ago -AU$ half the value it is now,barrel of oil half the price it is now. End of that argument for now !

[NAS1801]

Konehead, top posting! You should forward this to relevant newspapers.

[Talkwrench]

Latest notice issued by ALAEA: Qantas Management has opted for LAMEs to take 4 hour stop work meetings rather than allowing a 1 hour paid meeting for ALAEA Executives to feedback information to members about the EBA negotiations(on 29 and 30 May, next week). I just don’t understand it. The ALAEA offers to minimise disruption to Qantas customers by requesting a short, paid feedback meeting supported with skeleton crews to continue urgent work. Qantas Management refuses to approve this 1 hour paid feedback meeting in preference to a 4 hour unpaid stop work meeting. Its like Qantas Management are taking out their frustrations on their own customers. How does that work?!?! Is that some obscure piece of the Workchoices legislation????

[sickofqf]

There's no point, judging by the tone of their last few stories and their lack of interest in a balanced view I'm guessing QF have used the ad budget threat to rein them in.

So far ABC ( no ads - what a coincidence) are the only ones giving it any coverage and a pretty balanced view.

[chockchucker]

If you try to think the way QF management might think, they might insist on the four hour stop works so as to allow them to get their scabs in the door.


See they're still advertising for them in the Australian today.:mad:

[Take five]

Qantas shares $2.10 per share less than May 2007 , that’s -32.2%.

Qantas fares up 7% Domestic and up 6.5% International.

The ordinary travelling public and shareholders are losing faith in the service and reliability of our company, of which we all used to be proud and gave that extra little bit to, when it was needed.

Mr Dixon,
Do you think that you can keep making the public pay higher fares and still keep travelling with an airline, where staff at all levels are so demoralised with their, lack of job satisfaction, esteem and prospects for the future that they now just don’t care and will not give that bit extra.
All brought about solely by a management team that just cannot see reality.

Mr Howard and the Liberal Party still won’t admit.
The ONE and ONLY reason that they are not still in power, is because of the ordinary working people’s revulsion at the AWA”s and workchoices debacle.

A FAIR GO.
IS ALL THAT PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR

It is an Australian Imperitive and if we don’t get it we will rebel.

I wonder if anyone is learning anything by their mistakes.

Mr DIXON
GET REAL AND GET FAIR,
OR GO THE SAME WAY AS JOHN HOWARD

[Torres]

"Howard and the Liberal Party still won’t admit that the ONE and ONLY reason they are not still in power, is because of the ordinary working people’s revulsion at the AWA”s and workchoices debacle. A fair go is all that the people want and when they don’t get it they rebel."

Did I miss something? I thought AWAs still exist? Only change is that Kevin 07 now calls them ITEAs?

You're dreaming if you think the industrial relations scene is going to change! :E

Welcome to the new World of same, same industrial law. Only interest rates, fuel prices and home interest rates will change!

Upwards! :*

[lamem]

Federal Exec what about your delegates doing higher duties whenever they are asked to plug up a company hole.

[REALITY]

whom exactly??? or at least what port??

[Short_Circuit]

Mr Dixon's mob have backed them selves into a corner now.

Aircraft being parked with no departure dates because of the lack of staff.

Pax staring at empty departure gates wondering where their aircraft is.

Not a single engineer on strike but still nothing to fly on.

Pity help them if the engineers do take 4 hours off to discuss their

future.... 4 hours!

Hope those old pommy scabs are ready to scramble.

They have been grouped up in cold storage for 6 months earning $100,000.00 to watch cable TV ,

contracts coming to an end, no work yet.

God, that is a great way to waste $150 MILLION Dollars.

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Toolpants]

Orrrrr…. Poor PAF’y isn’t happy.

PAF, you need to find a forum where someone actually cares what you think.

[Konehead]

Whatever.

Let's be honest like Geoff. Oh wait, the catalogue of lies is too long to list. :eek:

So let's be nice to the shareholders like Geoff. Oh wait, he nearly sold the company for a way under-valued $5.45 per share. :sad:

Ok, so let's be nice to the passengers and organise a 1 hour stop work meeting with skeleton crews to keep the place running while the union keeps us informed of progress. Oh wait, the company has denied us permission and wants us to take a 4 hour stop work meeting. :confused:

[Anulus Filler]

paf

How about you discuss it after work eh? Heard of e-mail?

No. I want to spend all my spare time with my family. E-mail doesn't cut it. I want face to face at work because it concerns work. I don't mix this ****e with family time.

That is not work to rule. That is wrong. If you think it's right, then e-mail the union and ask them to release a press release stating that 26 of 29 were ill that day. They won't and you all know why. "Blue Flu"


If Dixon stopped talking diahorrea, i'm sure everyone will be well. This is pretty contageous.:sad::\:ok:

[Konehead]

Now you're just being silly. How can 6 executive members have a DISCUSSION with, not BROADCAST to 1500 members? Act your age not your shoe size.

This dispute really has nothing to do with you. I feel terribly sorry for you that you have so little in your life that you have to barge into an engineers' forum to spout your vitriolic, irrelevant, illogical, rabidly ideological, dogmatic, ill-informed opinion that no-one here really cares about anyway. I mean what DO you hope to achieve?

When you have something RELEVANT to add to the forum, a fully informed, balanced, logical viewpoint please feel free to post here. Till then, go back to the boarding lounge and wait for your delayed aircraft. Go whinge to your ideological bosom buddies in the Captains Club. That's if they'll have you. That would be because you're beneath their attention. They're not going to thank you for your posts here.

I used to laugh at you. Now I just pity you. Get a life.

[NAS1801]

This message is hidden because Pass-A-Frozo is on your ignore list.

Works a treat Konehead! Give it a go!

[Annulus Filler]

Tsunami nicknamed 'Workload' is building and on its way.

[Sunfish]

Why is QF choosing a four hour shutdown instead of a one hour paid meeting?

This is significant.

First of all what are passengers numbers like these days? Is volume down???

Way back in my former life before being at Ansett, I worked for an Oil company.

Occasionally, when there were refining problems, we literally "ran out" of petrol to deliver. So no work for about 40 tankers and about 120 drivers.

When this happened, the operations manager sometimes provoked the TWU into going on strike for a few days (this was the early 1970's, and they were very militant)......so we saved a few days wages.

I just wonder if QF has done exactly the same thing?

Or are they trying to weave a "story" about striking engineers for the media?

[hi-speed tape]

QF bag chucker's at SIT asked for a 30 min stop work meeting a couple of months ago to discuss rostering changes.They wanted to meet in the afternoon when the workload was at it's low point. QF management refused so the bag chucker's walked out for 4 hrs. There followed all sorts of threats from management, even threats of huge individual fines........Nothing came of the management threats. the bag chucker's had their 4 hr meeting and the evening flights turned to sh1t !!

[max1]

PAF,
Please read my post 1432 and give me an opinion.There is relevance.

Cheers

[Acute Instinct]

PAF,

Just before you are banished, I wish to make a parting appraisal. The lowest form of intellect used to stimulate argument is objective positioning. Individuals who utilise this method, such as yourself, interpret the short sharp responses recieved as validating their intelligence. This interpretation is akin to marvelling at the mind power of a mosquito and the stupidity of humans who swipe in a futile attempt to cease the irritation.
Now, in a nut shell you insect, 2000+ posts of non constructive sh*t stirring. You do not speak a differing view in the hope of contributing to a better outcome, you do so for reaction. Reaction that makes you feel important. Takes a special kind of individual to rack that up in there own time.
I am reasonably new to this and fully respect its addictive appeal. As such, I look forward to this PIA resolving itself so I may sign off from this site, hopefully never to return. You on the other hand, remain dedicated to the only cause that matters to you. Trying vainly to compensate for the lack of achievement in your life.
You could have tried being man enough in your hayday. I feel you may be the product of cockpit pecking order syndrome. You know it all too well, 'three birds in a cage', the two strongest take control, the third may as well just be along for the ride. How did procedure not protect you from feeling like you were inferior and insignificant?
Time has passed, as has life and opportunity, go get yourself a hobby, one that doesn't involve a computer.

[Konehead]

If you mean thread
Yes I did. I stand corrected. Thank you for pointing that out. When will you admit YOU’RE wrong?

I assert that what you do (Industrial Action) effects others. If that wasn't the case you would not be doing it. In fact the only reason engineer's are conducting such action is because it effects others. Yet you appear surprised that those "others" that are effected would wish to express a view. Quite illogical given that the entire Industrial Action thing is based upon placing an effect on others.
I appear surprised? Based on what? That only one genuine member of the travelling public (not including company trolls) has expressed a contrary view? And it happens to be you? That is hardly surprising, considering the content of many of your 2000 posts. Compare your posts to all the supportive posts we have received on this THREAD from flight attendants and pilots and people outside of the industry. Why do you bother? What pleasure or satisfaction do you derive from tilting at windmills in some quixotic crusade to teach us bad old LAMEs the error of our ways?

It still doesn’t change my opinion that you are sad and pathetic. I still can’t understand what you hope to achieve, beyond some kind of ego trip. Do you honestly think that you’re going to change any Qantas LAME’s opinion here? You’re not living it. You’re not working in the situation. You’re not experiencing the soul-destroying dilemma of working for a company you love (in many cases for decades), doing a job you love for a (temporary) management regime that you have watched gut a once proud and internationally respected engineering institution, for a wage that is below market rates, and losing money in an attempt to win a fairer outcome – an outcome, mind you, that was PROMISED us by the company years ago. May I remind you we took a pay freeze and we were promised to be looked after when times were good. Well, first there was a $500 million profit, then there was a $1 billion profit, now we’re heading for a $1.4 billion profit. Precisely how much better does it need to get before we should ask the company to deliver on its promises and share some of that wealth that we have worked so hard to create?

Further, a happy worker is a hard worker. We're unhappy. We have withdrawn our labour in the form of overtime. Just as you assert your right to express an opinion here, so I assert our right to refuse to work on our rostered days off in an expression of our opinion on how we have been treated. That is, we have gone backwards in real terms, as well as having to work well beyond what is reasonable with less of everything (logistics, manpower, training) just to keep aircraft in the air and mostly on time, while the company has raked in cash hand over fist and management have paid themselves obscene bonuses of between 30% and 50%. Where is the justice and fairness in that? This is Australia, after all, not the US of A or some feudal society of princes and serfs.

Why are YOU surprised that we have had enough and we're not taking it anymore?

[Spelling Police]

Quote "To the 26 out of 29 Mechanical LAME sick today in Mel Heavy."

As an interested spectator to this PIA I have been regularly perusing the pertinent threads.

For the most part I think ‘Pass A Frozo’ has achieved his aims of stirring the pot extremely well without adding much at all to the debate. However, his recent posts regarding the 26 LAME from 29 who were all ill on the same day actually have some merit.

If there is one aspect or factor which must be maintained by the LAME in this action, it is the moral high ground.

Once you lose the moral high ground then you run the risk of being crucified in the media by bolstering the ammunition which can be truthfully used to against you.

Just because you feel the union has been bullied, it does not make it right or moral to devalue yourselves to the same level.

If the union directive is to 'Work to Rule' then that is what you must do. Do not work above the rule, do not work below the rule, work to the rule - exactly.

Seek and hold the high ground. Genghis Khan did it, so should you!

PS. When you make your posts, the least you can do is write in complete sentences and run a spelling check before you press submit. Journalists read these boards and will make a subjective judgment about you and your cause based on your prose.

[qantastrike]

Paf your silence would be appreciated. Spelling police let me outline something to you.... You must understand that every one of those 26 LAME's have been under a lot of stress lately due to the company's inapt measure's to save a meer $3.5m... Along with all working twice as hard the big Q have also cancelled any leave. Give the guys a break. You both claim to be outside this dispute so both could not possibly understand what QF Lame's are going through... And before you say anything PAF ... This is NOT self inflicted....

P.S Sorry for any spelling mistakes i might have made here Spelling Police....:)

[acslame]

PaF, what do you do for a living?

[rudderless1]

I'm quite happy to debate the logic of your position. Apparently you aren't - simply resorting to calling people cowards if they don't wish to join industrial action that is damaging to our nation.

Being personally attacked by a socialist for taking a position contrary to a "union" line is a bit like being hit with a wet lettuce. But then again, that's how union's operate isn't it - bully individual's into joining, "No ticket, no start" and calling people cowards or of low intellect if they don't toe the union line.
Greed is damaging our nation. QF management is GREED INCORPORATED.

Really what is the difference between a collective of management people and a collective of union people? Management tries to suggest they are the only ones allowed to act as a collective? Well boo hoo, management are no more than employees of QANTAS as well. Yet for some reason they are above the "needed constraints" for the company to survive and are allowed to gouge the fatted pig for themselves.
Does a manager not perform until his bonus kicks in, does he not get paid to do his job, why do they then also need consultants to do their job!
Management in QF is a FARCE.
At $6.7 mil excluding bonus Geoff cost more than 67 LAME's. Is he worth that? LAME's have done nothing apart from pull overtime, his poor management is now exposed for all it has not done, is he still worth that?

LAME's are no longer covering up the mess PAF and AMOS's mates (GD an Co) created yet they are two of a number that just fail accept reality.:bored:

[acslame]

PaF
Firstly, no one wants to go down the path of PIA, however negotiating
is not working. Its 3% and the company wants trade offs.
So in effect we are going backwards and giving away conditions to boot.

We have sat here and listened to GD rattle off every excuse for
keeping staff wages at 3%, we have had 9/11 , SARS ,bird flu, exchange rate and now oil prices.
We have done our bit, we have had wage freezes, shown wage restraint by
not pushing for a higher pay rise than the 3% offered, and done every
dumb ass thing we have been asked to do to " save money"

The problem is that while all this was going on instead of leading by example our executives have been giving themselves massive pay rises and bonuses .
Our CEO very nearly put 60M in his pocket as a " finders fee" for the sale of QANTAS. (I am still amazed that was legal!!!!)
In effect what has been happening is that QF management have set up
quite a tidy little earner for themselves here.
All you need to do is not spend any money and a percentage of what
you dont spend will end up in your pocket.
Don't fix anything, put off any purchases , don't train people , don't
buy any equipment , its easy really!
So all these greedy little lacky's have cut thru the fat into the bone and things are starting to fall apart but they can't say that can they or there will no bonus this year.
So what do they do? they say that all is well and they all get a nice fat pay check and it really doesn't matter if things arn't because soon they will move on and it will be someone elses problem.

Well the staff have had enough
Its not just the LAME's jacking up here , its all staff.
The check in staff are getting hammered, the rampies are doing it pretty
tough, catering are constantly under threat of being sold off. We are short
of pilots and the cabin crew are getting smashed and all engineering ever gets told is that we will get outsoursed.
Every dept has its own issues. But they all have one thing in common
and that is that they have had a gutfull and it is starting to effect the
operation .

If for one minute our execs had practiced what they preached and shown
some form of restraint we may not be in the situation we are now, however
having management cry poor while giving themselves huge pay increases has worn real thin and the staff are not going to put up with it any more.

So I ask you Paf,
What do we do because I am all ears?

[indamiddle]

qf have had too few guys working, as a result bucket loads of over time. this is good for the pay, bad for the health as it eventually catches up with you. as a consequence sick leave goes up and someone else has to do overtime to catch up the hours missed. but now nobody is working overtime so a backlog begins and as cabin crew we are seeing the consequences. good luck to you all.
why anyone would have a 1 hour stopwork when legislation demands that you are docked 4 hours... why work 3 hours for free?
question, if you go sick on a day that has a 4 hour stop work are you paid for a full day if you go sick before the stop work period?

[dr skydrol]

Paf just ask those poor sods who were retrenched in the the early 90's for not being in a union the real value of union membership. If we had no unions your beloved company wouldn't even bother with pay rises. Put your wifes knickers back in her draw where they belong and wear some man pants.
It bewilders me after 18 months that Mr 'Dick'son now claims oil at $130 a barrel is the reason we must live below inflation.All QF unions and the ACTU can see thru your lies.Whats next Dicko the Burmese cyclones or the earthquakes in China.:{
Hail the ALAEA flying the fair go flag for 36,000 employees. Shame on you Dicko for :mad:ing up our company.
My dads friend went to book a ticket on QF the other day. On hearing the recorded msg,"there might be flight delays due to industrial action" he bought a ticket on virgin instead. Now thats good for business Mr 'Dick'son.:( are there any shareholders watching.

[capt.cynical]

I have been meaning to ask this ? for a long time PAF:ooh:

What is a "Frozo" ? :\

Iv'e led a sheltered life !:}

[Spelling Police]

QantasStrike,

Granted, I am not a Qantas LAME, neither am I in the employ of Qantas in any capacity. However, if you honestly believe your workforce is the only group to ever feel aggrieved towards their employer then you are quite waylaid. I have been in exactly the same position as yourselves; unappreciated, underpaid, overworked, stressed, ignored etc.

I was merely pointing out that once you lose the moral high ground, it is impossible to regain it. The moral high ground is your groups most important asset in the media battle ground. Even if 26 of the 29 LAME were actually ill on the same day, the possible public perception of this will portray your group in a very poor light.

Regards
SP.

[lamem]

Up in Brisvegus

[LAMEA380]

gees gents....the silence is deafening...wonder whats going on..i mean Friday and today, yet no posts....wow....what could be going on????

[Acute Instinct]

You just can't help yourself. Moderator attention earnt through you last affiliated act of stupidity hasn't toned you down. Word has it that's strike one for you. Could this be strike two! You must be more constructive. Dig deep and prove you have a point of view and deliver it. Pack away the petrol and state your position or at least debate somebody elses. Go as hard as you like. But you must move forward. To stand still, and light fires like an arsonist, makes you an easy target. For elimination from PPRuNe.

[max1]

PAF
Which countries airforce?, and please feel free to comment on the American War of Independence anytime.

[LAMEA380]

Acute Insect

Did i touch a raw nerve, not sure but i think the power has gone to your head.

Suggest you prepare a new Resume

[Mr Invisible]

The situation was............

Every time an aircraft went U/S Engineers from around Aus would flock to it JUST TO GET IT FIXED be it on normal time or overtime we can't help ourselves we love fixing things but..........

When you give us no respect, no future and no recognition we don't like it, it takes a while to sink in, we still love fixing aircraft but we get more and more unhappy finally............

When you get to a stage where even engineers are disenchanted enough you know the place is falling down around your ears we are at that stage........

I don't know all the answers but a change of management would go a long to solving this disharmony and unfortunately the fish always stinks from the head............

On average an engineer will stay 34 years with Qantas, managers barely last 10, the scars of this latest dispute will be borne by all for many years to come.............

And we will not forget

[Acute Instinct]

Lamea380
You just can't help yourself. Moderator attention earnt through you last affiliated act of stupidity hasn't toned you down. Word has it that's strike one for you. Could this be strike two! You must be more constructive. Dig deep and prove you have a point of view and deliver it. Pack away the petrol and state your position or at least debate somebody elses. Go as hard as you like. But you must move forward. To stand still, and light fires like an arsonist, makes you an easy target. For elimination from PPRuNe.

P.S. Again, I warn you, be constructive or risk being dismissed.

[LAMEA380]

Acute Insect

I have taken notice of your warning and will try to be more constructive.

How about this *************** is that constructive enough

Opps soory i might get banned

TID Edit: Correct statement!:=

[bb744]

Lamea380 - I hope so. Not a professional in attitude, thought or presentation. Goodbye! :=

[qantastrike]

could someone from the site please put lamea380 out of his missery and dismiss the fool. He has nothing to discuss only rant due to his side being on the back foot for a change. :ok:

[wanty]

Acute Insect

I have taken notice of your warning and will try to be more constructive.

How about this YOU ARE AN IDIOT is that constructive enough

Opps soory i might get banned


LAMEA380, the first sign of LOOSING an argument is reverting to personal insults...........:ok:


DELAY,DELAY,DELAY,DELAY,DELAY,DELAY AND YOU GUESSED IT,ANOTHER DELAY

[Sunfish]

PAF:

Being personally attacked by a socialist for taking a position contrary to a "union" line is a bit like being hit with a wet lettuce. But then again, that's how union's operate isn't it - bully individual's into joining, "No ticket, no start" and calling people cowards or of low intellect if they don't toe the union line.

You must be a relic of the 1970's because that's the last time I heard this drivel.


If you really are an Air Force Pilot (which I doubt) then by the nature of your career progression you will know very little about that which you pretend to speak with authority...


To put it another way, your purported knowledge is entirely theoretical. You have no direct experience whatsoever of that about which you speak.

To put it another way, I've already directed Moderators attention to your posts.

[aveng]

I'm an Air Force Pilot if you must know

Figures. Not that I have anything against the airforce, having been there myself - but it is like neverland. Someday you'll leave and find out what its like in the real world! Believe me there is no leading by example (that you are used to) in the corporate world.:ok:

[indamiddle]

to any ginger beer out there, can any of you explain why QF 1,31,5(euro bound) are getting huge delays while QF 11,107 (to U.S.) seem to be running near schedule

[Spanner Turner]

to any ginger beer out there, can any of you explain why QF 1,31,5(euro bound) are getting huge delays while QF 11,107 (to U.S.) seem to be running near schedule



Well mainly because the 11 and 107 are generally 'transiting aircraft' i.e only scheduled on the ground for a few hours so the only things for the gingerbeer to attend to is what the crew have entered in the log during the past sector.

The 1, 31 and 5 typically depart after a long day stop of 8-10 hours or are departing after an 'A' check (24 hours ground time - usually with 3 days worth of work!) This means lots more things to create a delay - engine runs, repositioning of A/C from base to terminal, endless paperwork, endless rectification, lack of spares, tooling, equipment, manpower, licence coverage. Then there's an uncountable number of ridiculous management arse covering procedures, rules and ideology to overcome (lean sigma, 4 pillars, cardinal rules, etc etc) Within all that there tends to be something that will stick it's head up to cause a delay.
Of course the constant carping and disrespect shown by management has erased the goodwill of the LAMEs, which was once the only thing that enabled us to negotiate all the above to 'make things happen' No good will equals lot's of delays!

[K9P]

Seems that a lot of the time
the scum floats to the top
and the sh!t flows downhill

[Acute Instinct]

Time for some intellect. It's your last swing! Are you capable? Constructively capable? Time to state your position. No more 'idiot this' 'idiot that'. Lets get down to what this thread is all about. You have the serve. This ones for free. Just make it a good one! Moderators, please take the umpires chair.

P.S. Refer post 1498 for LAMEA380 evidence and retraction of idiocy. Thanks wanty, fellow member. Happens, doesn't it, again, and again. Now, put it on the line. Let me deduce your profile. From there we shall play. Oh what, did you ignorantly believe engineers were not up to this? Did you think managers were the only ones capable? Your on notice!

[Big Unit]

All that deferred work is going to ground aircraft before long.



Just like annulus stated. "That tsunami called workload is building and its on its way". Never has that been as true as it is at the moment. Whilst it seems deathly quiet on the floor, allocations are suffering constant schedule rolling changes and our IOC area is in utter chaos. This cannot continue for much longer. We will be grounding them soon. While we are at it, let the scabs in too. Those washed up have beens would only remember the good old days 10-20 yrs ago when you sat on your arse for most of the day and slept most nights. Times have changed old boys. Come and work with me. I will happily drag your sorry arses around from expiring mel to delayed aircraft with little or no break and we can and fix a/c with no parts. I can guarantee you will only last 2 days.

[Rak-a-san]

Sickness has spread to ADL as well, only 1 avionics guy on last night who ended up grounding a jet cos of some pitot static problem, a crew harness problem and I think an electrical power contactor issue as well. I heard that the A/C was due out this morining first flt but didnt leave until after 15.00.

well done :D

when is GD going to learn the true value and scarcity of an engineer? ..... Oh thats right , apparently engineers are everywhere, just look under bushes LOL :ugh:

[Redstone]

Puss-A-Frodo, tell me how many flights were cancelled, and I will let you in on the secret.......

[Big Unit]

Pass a Frodo. Your holding on too tight man. You've lost the edge.

[Konehead]

PAF, QF has a host of flight numbers. They could cancel many and the average punter would never know, unless they were on that particular flight. Because of the number of frequencies domestically, these pax are then punted onto other flights. Further, if an aircraft goes U/S another aircraft can take over that flight number. The aircraft vs flight number replacements/swaps then cascade as long as necessary, or one or more flights may be cancelled and pax punted as above, until the U/S aircraft is made serviceable. The U/S aircraft can then slot back into the mix and everything is back to normal - except for the blood pressure and adrenalin levels of the schedulers, maintenance planners, engineers, flight crew and cabin crew, not to mention the affected passengers.
So in summary, the departure times which may be all that matters to some, may look good. So ten out of ten aircraft left a port on time +/- 15 minutes? The real damage to the network is relatively hidden to all but the bean counters who count the lost revenue because 11 aircraft should have left that port (a delay costs anything from $300 to $1000 per minute, depending on how you want to count it - direct impact or flow-on effects); and maintenance and logistics planners who then have to reschedule maintenance and/or hopefully position logistics for the changed terminating base/line station at the end of the day's flying. Scheduled maintenance ground time may be cancelled and the aircraft slotted into the network to take up the slack. The airline, QF Engineering's "customer" tell us when we can have the aircraft to work on it. We just have to figure out precisely how and when we'll do it. Unfortunately the increasing fleet age and aircraft utilisation levels over the years (one of the highest in the world) leave little time to achieve the required maintenance. Such bedlam inevitably results in aircraft turning up at a line station with work called up but no parts, tooling or test equipment or sufficient ground time to acquit the work. Aircraft may then be grounded till the required part/tool/test box arrives the next day, so starting the whole process of cascading aircraft swaps, delays and cancellations again. Overtime helps to minimise these impacts of the "customer's" unrealistic expectations of an ageing fleet's serviceability, logistics, manpower and planning.
That isn't the whole story. Others may be able to further educate you about how QF (or any airline) covers up the effects of delays and cancellations.
Engineers however, can't help themselves. We slog our guts out to get aircraft out on time. It's what we do, it's what we've been doing for decades. Old habits die hard. And long-term employees hang around because they're proud of their work and their employer. But running an operation the way QF has been ramping up to the last few years increasingly relies on the goodwill of the engineers, i.e an ageing fleet requiring more work to keep them airworthy, an expanding fleet of multiple aircraft types, reduced logistics support, reduced manpower, vastly reduced training. Sadly, the last few years has also seen that goodwill severely eroded and perhaps irreparably damaged by the actions and inaction of the current management regime. Many engineers are resigning rather than waiting for a redundancy because they are totally fed up - for the many reasons expressed in this thread and others. This may or may not be intentional by the current management regime. Historically however, engineer attrition rates have been incredibly low compared to all staff except possibly flight crew. Attrition rates now are at record levels, yet are not seen as a problem by current management because I quote "people aren't leaving in droves yet". Yet. And there's no new blood coming through because of the massive disparity in wages between what QF and competing airlines & industries are offering - upwards of $30,000.
PAF, my apologies for the digression from answering your question re delays, cancellations etc, however I also endeavour to return to the subject of the thread.
PS What's a frozo?

[Redstone]

One thing I will add to Koneheads post PAF, is the obvious observation that your good self will understand absolutely none of what he has just explained to you, only for the simple fact that you have never worked operationaly in RPT. Not your fault, not slinging mud, but just highlighting that as a RAAF driver this will all be double Dutch to you. Keep watching that web site buddy, and racking up those FF points on the Australian tax payer :ok:

[wanty]

One thing I will add to Koneheads post PAF, is the obvious observation that your good self will understand absolutely none of what he has just explained to you, only for the simple fact that you have never worked operationaly in RPT. Not your fault, not slinging mud, but just highlighting that as a RAAF driver this will all be double Dutch to you. Keep watching that web site buddy, and racking up those FF points on the Australian tax payer :ok:


LOL.......................:ok:

[Sunfish]

Good post Konehead.....And at some point CASA will step in and want to review compliance with the QF maintenance system......and at that point, which is a long way away....QF management will realise what they have done.

To put it another way, when you scrimp on maintenance, the effects take a long time to appear....but when they do, they take enormous resources (that Qantas no longer possesses) to fix.

[Short_Circuit]

I hear that just one week of no overtime by LAMEs the routine (OSIP) maintenance is running toward or past 10% overrun.

There is no more meat to keep the fleet afloat. :ooh:

No matter how hard we work, no meal breaks etc for 12 hours, aircraft will be lining up against the fence.

Time CASA had a word to the bosses..... :p

[wanty]

For p!ssing us off,we now want 10% (30% over 3 years),a level rise and total removal of quotas.:ok::E:E

[sickofqf]

PAF,

It's almost impossible to track flights that have 'dissapeared' from the schedule as every single day has a different schedule.
It's not like the old days when there was a printed timetable that they stuck to.

For example, often on Sunday mornings there will be several flights available for booking, however, when viewing the available seats there will be one which is almost empty. This is then the last one to be filled and if bookings are low it will often be cancelled with about 12-24 hours notice with minimal re-bookings needed. On the flip side, that aircraft could then be slotted onto another route which has high bookings, thus ADDING a flight to the schedule.

Unless you are studying EVERY day's schedule for several days in advance you will never see these switches and as a result of the huge planning need this ( actually very good) system has created they can also 'hide' problems when the need arises.....such as now.

I would also not trust the total truth of those departure times either. From my time at the international terminal the threat of the 'delay report' always seemed to encourage a liberal approach to 'off-blocks' call time!!

PAF, if you want to check out a real delay have a look at the 12.10pm Perth flight from SYD on Sunday.............ouch.....4 hours......that's one of those 'shouldn't even have them anymore old 747's.........what? you want us to maintain them too..........good one DC!!

[Short_Circuit]

Friday SYD PER 12:10 flight departs 21:30 ... 9h20m late:{

not due to breakage just lack of manpower to do the A check.

That does not appear on the web site :confused:

It did not finish there because,

26th May 2008, 6:00 WST The West Australian newspaper


Qantas has apologised to more than 200 passengers who were forced to wait on a plane on the tarmac of Perth Airport for nearly three hours early on Saturday morning because no staff were on duty at the terminal.

The delay was made worse because the passengers had already had to wait eight hours to board the plane because of a mechanical fault.

One passenger, who asked to remain anonymous, said by the time people disembarked just after 4am, most had been awake nearly 24 hours.

“There were no apologies,” the man said.

[Clipped]

“There were no apologies,” the man said.

Now passengers have to start getting used to it.

It's a Qantas management motto - they really could not care.

[wanty]

All chewing in to the Qantas $100 Mill fighting fund.

Wonder what sort of costs the bean counters have racked up thus far with only 1-2 weeks in to the OT bans. lol:ok:

Come on GD, you line your own pockets now start lining ours.

Give us our 5%

[NAS1801]

Wanty. It aint a case of "lining our pockets". That just sounds greedy.

It's a case of Qantas paying engineers what is owed to them. Backpay, as well as an increase of 5% taking into account the increased workloads and increased bull$hit imposed by the greedy "pocket lining" management.

Despite pprune being closed to non signed up members, I am sure there are a lot of journalists and general public that have logins. I think people should be cautious about how they word their claims. Try not to get offside with the flying public.

[Rak-a-san]

PAF, that cancelled flight on Sunday from ADL was actually ferried back to its original destination which I heard was MEL, so at great expense, fuel and pilot wages to the company, some minor sphincter puckering for the airline etc etc and not to forget some minor disruption to our paying customers, at least, albeit small, there was some disruption as a result of a poor avionics guy working his ar#se off and there being no overtime to cover. Remember the great wall of China started with just 1 brick.

Why dont you carefully study Koneheads brilliant post relating delays, digest the info, you may get a better understanding of the real world. It might even make you a better person.

I have only just met you and you are already heading for my ignore list. But before I do, two things I need to know is how long have you been suffering from small plane syndrome obviously from a protected, sheltered employer, which seems to generate blinkered rot and the other, what is a Frozo?

[Talkwrench]

ALAEA have just issued a notice under the banner of the ACTU. Looks like a lot of the other unions and the ACTU itself are now OFFICIALLY supporting our 5% wage claim. Its great to see such a united group working towards a fair and reasonable outcome now. Great work by the Federal Executive. As far as I'm concerned they are doing a top job and I thank them for their ongoing efforts over the last year and a half.

[chockchucker]

Anybody got any info on what happened at the meeting that was due to take place between the ALAEA/ACTU and Dixon today?

[Big Unit]

Chockchucker, i think this just about answers that question. Sounds like its ON now boys. Lets make those aircraft SERVICEABLE like never before. Check those log hold items to ensure no MEL's are required. Just more inspiration from our fearless 6.7million dollar boss....:eek::eek:

MESSAGE FROM THE CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER


The ALAEA advised Qantas on Friday that it would hold stopwork meetings in Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane on Thursday and Friday of this week.

The notice came despite the fact that the President of the ACTU, Sharan Burrow, said she had persuaded the ALAEA to postpone its proposed stopwork meetings for last Friday and this Friday to allow urgent discussions with Qantas.

Qantas agreed to meet this Wednesday with the ACTU and the ALAEA. However, given the ALAEA’s decision to call stopwork meetings despite our agreement to meet, we have called off the meeting (see letter to ACTU Secretary, Jeff Lawrence).

As I explained in my message of 22 May, Qantas, and all other airlines, continue to come to terms with the escalating cost of the price of oil. We are working on a range of measures to mitigate the impact and will provide details later in the week.

Thank you for your support.

Geoff Dixon

LETTER TO ACTU


Mr Jeff Lawrence
Secretary
ACTU
Level 6
365 Queen Street
MELBOURNE VIC 3000


Jeff

On 15 May Sharan Burrow stated publicly that the ACTU had persuaded the ALAEA to postpone its proposed stopwork meetings for that week to take part in urgent discussion with Qantas.

Subsequently, I received a letter from you requesting that we meet. That meeting was set for Wednesday, 28 May.

On Friday, 23 May the ALAEA notified Qantas of stopwork meetings for Thursday, 29 May and Friday, 30 May. In these circumstances, there seems to be little benefit in proceeding with our meetings on Wednesday.


Yours sincerely


GEOFF DIXON

Copy: Stephen Purvinas
Federal Secretary
ALAEA

[Ngineer]

Ouch!! Now the ACTU are offside. Another win for the ALAEA. Maybe a few early stop work meetings may be required to discuss this latest development.
How does an airline make money when they can't keep their planes flying? It looks like the share holders will also get a little bit upset when a profit downgrade, or low profit guidance, is finally announced.:D

[weeddego]

Thats it till now I have been prepared to be resonable. Game on you

[The Black Panther]

I think a 24hr stoppage is on the cards.

[division1]

Qantas agreed to meet this Wednesday with the ACTU and the ALAEA.
However, given the ALAEA’s decision to call stopwork meetings despite our agreement to meet,
we have called off the meeting (see letter to ACTU Secretary, Jeff Lawrence).


Looks to me like Mr Dixon does not have the balls to face the actu
meeting, backed by every other union supporting the ALAEA position.

It was only reasonable for the affected members to have a report back
meeting after such an important meeting of the heads. Maybe the company
denied that right because they want to force the unions hand.

All round, i'd say it's another point on the board for the suffering lames,
and because of managements stupidity, end the week with more delays.
Sydney members, 0800-1200 thursday
Brisbane members, 1800-2200 thursday
Melbourne members, 0800-1200 friday

[The Black Panther]

Sounds tactical by GD.
Should we exercise the 'Stop Work' on Thursday & Friday no doubt Qantas will use the 'unprovoked' card for the public to view. The ALAEA could withdraw the actions for the meetings which would trump the 'unprovoked' lead. The long weekend in June is approaching and by suggesting a day of PAI could take place then we may reduce forward bookings. We need a plan that reduces revenue and prevents adverse effects to the innocent public.

Keep grinding away with all the inept system of maintenance system. That seem sot be working a treat. The backlog is growing but Darth knows the best form of defence. is attack.

We took a pawn and bishop on our first move but the Queen is on the advantage line. Your move SP.

[The masked goatrider]

News just in from and old friend. Qf 5 canx, 380 pax off to the hotel. At least it won't show up as a delay.

Stopwork meetings off, meeting with Dixon back on.

[The Black Panther]

Darth could be getting help from the darkside in as far as keeping national wages restricted but 5% isn't a runaway in view of 4.3% inflation rate, but we need a nudge from an imperial leftist, a board member perhaps to suggest it may better to settle up before 8-8-8 else revenue could be effected.

V Australia approaches, 380 delayed and now capacity assets on the ground due maintenance restrictions. It is not a good set of conditions. Mind you he as had timely Ansett crumble, and at other times external factors presenting him with one resolve that was the right one to get him out of the sh#t. 8-8-8 with 15% of the fleet grounded wouldn't be looked upon fondly in the big % shareholders.

The only time he made a decision without external influence the shareholders saw his flaw in evaluation and the equity takeover was rejected. (Warren Buffet was asked recently how is he different from Equity takeovers? He said he buys companies to keep them, Equity takeover buy them to carve them up and sell them, how lucky we are to be in a PAI today)

I am still worried a cruise liner with 1500 LAMEs may arrive at circular quay willing to work for GD at $39950/yr . :eek:

[wanty]

Wanty. It aint a case of "lining our pockets". That just sounds greedy.

It's a case of Qantas paying engineers what is owed to them. Backpay, as well as an increase of 5% taking into account the increased workloads and increased bull$hit imposed by the greedy "pocket lining" management.

Despite pprune being closed to non signed up members, I am sure there are a lot of journalists and general public that have logins. I think people should be cautious about how they word their claims. Try not to get offside with the flying public.

NAS, all I have asked for is what we origonally asked for and thats 5%
which is not unreasonable in the slightest considering how arrogantly greedy management have already shown themselves to be.

[Silmarillion]

In all honesty I don't think 3% or 5% pay rises are the main issue here. GD and his bunch of thieving cohorts are using it to beat us up in the press and smoke screen the general public as to their real reason for this very public fight.

Getting rid of our Union is forefront on this mans agenda. He has bullied and intimidated other unions into accepting crippling EBA wage rises and conditions, which will see the recruitment of personnel into those jobs almost impossible in the future.

WAKE UP - GEOFF DICKSON We've had enough of your threats and your bully boys Cox and Harris, we're not afraid of you anymore, so just eat your "Humble Pie", pay us what we are due and scuttle off back under that rock from whence you can.

[sickofqf]

News just in from and old friend. Qf 5 canx, 380 pax off to the hotel. At least it won't show up as a delay.

Nope, wrong, not cancelled but now departing at 7.30 am....15 odd hours LATE!! Add to that the building disaster that is the Classic fleet in Perth....one 5.5 hours late into melbourne when it should have been in SYD for scheduled maintenance and EBW 18 hours late for one of many positional flights around the network because, boys and girls......the wheels are falling off the cart after only 2 weeks of overtime bans...........

Just ask anyone who was trying to get from MEL to SYD or back today!!!

[sickofqf]

I am still worried a cruise liner with 1500 LAMEs may arrive at circular quay willing to work for GD at $39950/yr


mate, if there was even 1 LAME in the world who would work for that money do you think the Leprechaun would be paying his LAMEs a STARTING rate of 105k ??!!


There is a shortage. Period. There will be NO cavalry to bail dick-son out this time. he is sat at a large table with a very large piece of humble-pie in front of him and soon the shareholders will tell him to get eating or start walking.......

My money is on the later and before the AGM!

[Take five]

DELAY INFORMATION

Stick’m up Post #1419 originally posted this delay site.
Not a QF altered one.
Shows each delay or cancellation for a 3 hour period.

http://www.flightstats.com/go/Home/home.do (http://www.flightstats.com/go/Home/home.do)

Just select, BY AIRPORT, AIRLINE (QF),DATE and TIME PERIOD

SYD QF 26/5/08 3pm-6pm QF5 985 minutes late

[Galley Raider]

Apparently we can only get 3% because of rising fuel prices....

Don't forget what you told the Australian Newspaper only weeks ago, Mr. Dixon.


Much of the industry was far from being in turmoil and, while he conceded no airline would escape high fuel prices, he questioned whether fuel would keep rising.
"I see the latest official American view on it ... is that jet fuel will stay up for a while but it will certainly come down within about six months.


Full article http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23606811-643,00.html

[Short_Circuit]

I think Geoff Dixon should read what Qantas has written on the careers.qantas.com.au web site.
Our growth and our current position in the market is a direct result of the people who work with Qantas and the contribution they make every day. We are very conscious that building and developing a team of experienced and motivated people has been, and will continue to be, key to our success. We proudly value and acknowledge the dedication of our 37,000 employees, 90% of whom are based in Australia
So why are you letting the experienced people walk away in disgust?

Invest in your people, not just aircraft.

5% is reasonable and deserved! (read your quote above)

[The masked goatrider]

Source ??

:O A friend. :O

[Silmarillion]

They don't care. Dixon is out for blood and he doesn't care how much he has to spend to achieve that goal.

Just look at what is happening in QANTAS Engineering, never mind the rest of the Departments. What boss would allow their company to get into a quarter of this mess without sacking the incompetent fool(s) responsible.

Cox and Harris still play God at the top with their army of YES MEN following on behind. It's a joke.

If any engineer performed his/her job in the same manner we would have been sacked on the spot.

[Silmarillion]

Why are engineers still willing to go to out stations and help this company in their hour of need??????????????????? It is beyond me.

Do they think the company will remember their good deed when the dust settles, I think not. So why help these greedy b@#t*@ds out

Surely the latest info from the union stated that Qantas can't guarantee a LAME a return flight home (within his shift time) and surely most of us should have the intelligence to just say NO!!!!

[upsidefront]

Come on members, let's be the first to blink. :ok:

GD said no meeting because the union called stop works. Now it will be fair to assume that the union will do the right thing and call off these meetings. :ugh:

I say let's call their bluff. have the stop works and let them do what they feel might be fair. This "game" will not end if neither party has the balls to make a move. I know the ot bans are hurting them, and in a week they will be begging, however let's just flex them ALAEA muscles a bit to show we mean it when we say: "Enough is enough!" :ok:

[Sunfish]

Gentlemen, you are approaching this whole issue the wrong way......

This isn't about you, its about Geoff Dixon. He has to grandstand to get the attention he craves.

Reason doesn't come into the equation at all.

[blubak]

No need to me thinks.
We did the right thing and offered our labour(skeleton) whilst report back was held-They said 'NO'. No alternative then but stopwork,obviously they dont like that!
Meeting called off-OOPS,Mistake now realised.Better go back to having the meeting.
As we were told-ALAEA has the right to have PIA,we have made our decision and sticking to it,thats all we need to do for now.If the meeting goes ahead with ACTU prob not a bad thing but maybe right now someone(qf) can see that they need it to happen more than we do.

[Short_Circuit]

Regardless of anything else, we need a union meeting to discuss what has been going on over the last 18 months.

A simple notice will not suffice!

Geoff Dixon wants to play games, we want to resolve an 18 month old issue.

Lets meet, discuss and move forward despite Qantas' lack of commitment.

The ALAEA has deferred & deferred to save the travelling public any inconvenience

Geoff Dixon has done everything he can to provoke an escalation, I think we should avail him his wishes on the public & shareholders.

Be it on HIS head!!!!!!!!!:mad:

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Dixon Says no Negotiation

The ALAEA and ACTU were advised yesterday that the Qantas CEO would not meet with us this week due to planned stop work meetings. I met with ACTU Secretary Jeff Lawrence yesterday and explained the events of late last week with our offer to the airline to provide short sanctioned feedback meetings with no disruption to services. I also explained that Qantas did not even have the decency to reply to the ALAEA request and therefore we had no option other than to provide the much needed feedback at stop work meetings. The ACTU were 100% supportive of our position.

It was suggested to me in a member email that we should consider withdrawing the gun we have at Qantas’s head to facilitate meetings. It must be highlighted that we have continuously postponed action to suit Qantas and every time we do the right thing they return to the table with nothing. Qantas on the other hand think it is ok to continually hold a gun to LAMEs heads with constant threats of outsourcing to overseas facilities. The meetings two weeks ago were postponed to hold urgent meetings and I was advised that Mr Dixon could not make time for us last week because the CEO was heading overseas. This time, our members will not make time by further postponements for Mr Dixon and our stop work meetings will proceed.

Stop Work Meeting Information

Venues are now being booked and will be advised in due course. Members who are on sick leave over the periods of the stop work meeting should not be docked 4 hours pay as they will not have taken Protected Industrial Action. Members not rostered for duty are more than welcome to attend the venues to take part in the meetings. All levels of Qantas LAME are directed to leave their workplace on the time designated for their port. This includes LAMEs, Seniors, DMMs and Maintenance Watch members.

Any member who chooses to ignore the democratic process by staying at work may be openly invited to explain their actions at a subsequent ALAEA Federal Executive meeting. The invitations and minutes will be made public. Two members have resigned in the past month and openly declared that they will continue to work during legally sanctioned stop work meetings. In both cases, the individual’s membership remains in place until their resignations are processed at the next Executive meeting. The two members who are in the process of resigning are still bound by the ALAEA rules and should continue to follow ALAEA directions.


Qantas Tech Salaried Staff

The ALAEA have advised Qantas that our members covered by the Tech Salaried Staff Agreement are now in a formal bargaining period. This Agreement covers a number of Qantas members employed as Engineering Instructors, NDT specialists, Maintenance Schedulers, Tech Officers, Flight Data Analysts, Flight Training officers etc. The formal bargaining period is the first step before a Protected Industrial Action ballot to secure a better EBA outcome.

Forstaff EBA

The ALAEA has been faxed a copy of a management notice issued yesterday in which we have been attacked for considering Protected Industrial Action for Forstaff members. The ALAEA would like to affirm the management position and agree that only ALAEA members will be able to take part in any future Protected Action unless the other unions adopt the same approach. We have invited other Forstaff Avalon unions to join us so we can stand together to ensure that a real wages outcome is attained. At this stage Forstaff have offered 3% per annum which in real terms is a wages cut. It is our view that all members are entitled to an economic adjustment to reflect inflation and additional amounts due to productivity.

Members are also reminded that the example (250) ALAEA membership at Avalon used by management is incorrect. Our membership is closer to 400 and more than half the total number of employees at Forstaff. The ALAEA does not only cover LAMEs, all categories of employees can join the ALAEA including AMEs, Utilities staff, Planners, Administrative staff and Workshop personnel.

Working to Rule

Members should now as always be working strictly to the Qantas policy and procedures even when aircraft departure times are approaching. We have been sent a number of log coupons and reports both verbal and written that indicate to us that Qantas management may be placing schedule before safety and rules may have been bent to dampen the impact of overtime restrictions. We have been reporting breaches to CASA that include, aircraft flying with unactioned defects from major ports, aircraft leaving unmanned ports with mandatory maintenance inspections unsigned or actioned, management pressure to amend form 500 reports and re-application of failed Engineering Authorities. If you are being pressured to make decisions and feel uncomfortable, take 5, review your steps thus far and do not watch your clock when you work. Members should continue to report incidents on official company paperwork and to the ALAEA who are now in contact with CASA on a daily basis.

[The Black Panther]

QANTAS TAUNTS UNION TO STRIKE!
Passengers totally disregarded by CEO.

aapnews.com

[acslame]

Well Guys,
I have to say its about bloody time we got serious with QF
and I applaud SP with his decision regarding 4hr stop work meeting.

How many times has the company taken the line that they will not
talk to us if we are taking any form of action, so we do the right thing
and call off any action and then the company offers either nothing or
exactly the same as before.
Just the old QF tactic of stall, stall stall!!

It is time to sit these clowns on the deck!
We tried to talk and all they do is lie to us. Management statements like
"no one from the ACTU has contacted us" (in regards to a meeting) or
Dixon won't meet with the ALAEA because they are planning a stop
work meeting
What bull**** is this!
The 4hr stop work meetings are because they wont let us have a
1hrs meeting with skelliton crews.
They seem to think that there tactic of stalling us as long as
possible is going to work ,well guess again.

Sunfish is correct, it is all about Dixon. He truly is just looking for
the fight now.
This man has been waging his own personnel vendetta against his
staff for years.
His tactic is lie to them, threaten them, keep them
in fear of their jobs and they will be easy to handle.
Sure along the way there will need to be a few sacrifices, just enough
to make your threats look real.
Oh and he is a vindictive bastard as well.
A few years ago the FAAA nearly took action so he got back at them by setting up the LHR and AKL cabin crew bases
( i think BKK was already up and running)

Well enough is enough!
It is time we dictate the timing of meetings.
Don't ask them to talk. They know where the Bexley office is.
Take action but don't ask them for a meeting.
Make them approach us to talk!
They will soon want to talk when their LAME's are
walking out the gate.
Our CEO places more importance in his trip to london than
the impending grounding of his fleet.
At least this way they may bring something more
than rhetoric and empty promises to the table.

I suggest that we take a staggered 4hr stop work meetings this week
then next week we take 4hr stop work meetings all at the same time
during peak times and then look at 48hr stoppages
If management want to play this way I say bring it on
Its time to stand up to this bully!

Look at how we are operating at the moment. This place
is so disfunctional that we really will be lucky to survive.
When was the last time management made a decision that
streamlined the way we do things? I can't think of one.
All that happens is that we get snowed under with crap,
and you know why that is? Its because they have no f**king
idea what they are doing and they will not listen to the
people that do.

They constantly need to "engage the workforce" because with out us
pulling them out of the **** on a daily basis this place
would go down faster than the Hindenberg.
Oh guess what, It is!!!!!

Now for all those believers out there,
If QF get there LAME less tarmac or the B1/B2 thing happens
you will find yourself out of a job or with an A license (on appropriate pay)
so fast your head will spin. And if you think that "QF will
do the right thing and look after me" you are having yourself on!!
I suggest you go find an ex syd heavy bloke and talk to them
about it because they may have a different view to you.
Remember the money they don't spend paying you goes
into bonuses for them

To the people who have decided to leave the assn and jump
in bed with management, I suggest you have a real hard think
about what you are doing. People don't forget stuff like that
and whatever short term gain you think you are getting will
follow you for the rest of your career. You will be looking
for a whole new set of workmates and the ones you are
choosing may not survive this,
Remember when this is done and dusted middle management are going to pay a heavy price for all the lies they passed on to senior management .
**** flows down hill and I would not be suprised if M and DC were
looking for a new employer.
Then who is going to look after you?


So as I see it we need to stand up to these clowns before
it becomes a totally fragmented, dissfunctional, inefficient
and more importantly, unsustainable mess.
And guess what, that point is not very far off

So SP well done.
I for one am sick and tired of having QF hold a gun to my head
Its time we fired a few shots of our own.

[The masked goatrider]

Originally Posted by The Masked Goatrider
News just in from and old friend. Qf 5 canx, 380 pax off to the hotel. At least it won't show up as a delay.

Stopwork meetings off, meeting with Dixon back on.



Sorry, my bad.

Apologies to any Qantas manager or consultant that thinks I am an asn official if you got totally confused by the incorrect message posted by me on this anonymous rumour network yesterday. I hope you weren’t sitting by the phone all day waiting for the news that the stop work meetings would be called off. Apologies also to the strikebreakers who are being rooted around with the constant changes in plans. Looks like you will get a real run on Thursday, just wondering who will be the “picture boy of scabs” making appearances in newspapers across the country. There will be one.

[Short_Circuit]

PS

2 DMM at SYD Base ACS have pledged allegiance with Strike Breaker Force 1.

Crush Those Young LAME's. they said, :oh:

Credibility, goooooone.. :=

Do you want to play a game (Dr Falcon)?

Oh, Yes Please!

GlobalThermonuclear War?

No, EBA VIII ... !!!

[Ngineer]

Bring it on.

It is time action started hard and fast. Qantas have no regard for safety, passengers or dispatch reliability. They have proved this consistenly over the last 24 months. This is where overtime bans have their shortcomings.

The only thing Qantas has regard for is dollars. Work stoppages is the only way we can hurt their bottom line and bring them back to the bargaining table. It needs to be hard and fast. Trying to increase a backload of work to force CASA to step in is unrealistic. CASA are probably trying to find a hiding place right now while mummy and daddy are fighting.

It only takes $100 mil to create a 10% profit downgrade, (though I am sure QF has this put aside for special times like these). But the market does not take too kindly to downgrades this size. Neither do share holders, and ultimately, the board.

[blackhander]

Agree asclame. Lets take the fight to them properly. They wont negotiate while we have action on but thats no different to the previous 18 months when they haven't negotiated anyway. At least we're finally standing up and saying loud and clear that enough is enough.

[AlanShore]

From acslame
Its because they have no f**king
idea what they are doing and they will not listen to the
people that do.


It's because they have no idea what you as LAMEs do that will bring them unstuck

[Ragnar Benson]

a few thoughts

when we do stop work would Casa treat the mighty Q like it did Virgin??? ie that is you dont have enough Lames park those planes boys???

And ACS Lame you are 100% correct in that they have no idea.

Every day I just smile as I let that APU turn and burn at least a 1000kg.

You think youre winning Geoff but those shareholder dividends are going up in vapour.

Everyday because of your team of management sycophants that have done more for qantas than any bloody union I just think of how miserable you are as I listen and smell that sweet jet A1 being burnt.

You have no idea but then again pride comes before a fall!!!

[acslame]

My mum always used to say " Pride comes before a fall"
Shame dicko's mum never said the same thing to him

[Ragnar Benson]

He was probably a smacked arse that was always use to getting his own way.:{:{:{

[another superlame]

Good luck guys with your feedback meeting. I hope it wakes up those imbecile managers in the place. It would be great to see Qf actually start adding to the ranks of their engineers instead of running them into the ground.

Hopefully this will also bring much more high level publicity to the cause and make Jeff Dikkhead face the shareholders he loves so dearly and explain his actions

[Bolty McBolt]

Do you want to play a game (Dr Falcon)?

Oh, Yes Please!

World Thermonuclear War?

No, EBA VIII ... !!!



Short circut...

Are you on the sauce.

Looks like the company has "escalated" PIA.
Here we go.

[Short_Circuit]

Bloody hot in these aluminium tubes sitting out in the sun all day,
maybe we should start the APU and put the aircon on like when Dicko sits on the ship!
Oh, but he flies BA.

[Short_Circuit]

Bolty
Are you on the sauce.


Yep!

Unfortunately I am not in a state to work O/T, damn. :{

Yes I am p!ssed (off).

[chksatis]

well posted short circuit, i think the association will be able to figure out those two in question are and hopefully expelling will follow. i'm sure if they want to (CRUSH) their (YOUNG) workmates, next time an error ends up happening because of them, there goes there protection, open to all legal fronts that the company will throw at them. May they RIP. Look fwd to thursday i hope the AME's working while it happens inform us and the union of all names so we can publicly shame them and let CASA know of all work they carry out outside there legal privledges.

[up2us]

Win , lose or draw this thursday at least the acs mac's will start to see what we do, and how good we do it when these 'scabs' attempt to fill our proud shoes. I should be sh#tting myself with a huge mortgage and young family to look after,however I am sick of being managed by fear.Fear is the only tool G.D has in his toolbox and D.C/M.H are his wrenches. I am glad it is coming to a head now otherwise they will lead us down the garden path and probably get rid of us in a few years time anyway. Steve and our execs can only do so much, THE REST IS UP2US!

[Short_Circuit]

And to all the young AME's that may work with these fakes, they have not worked or certified
for an aircraft for many, many years and their licence are not truly valid (once it comes to the
attention of CASA that they have been sitting in an office for eons, not exercising their licence, goonski). :=
Be very, very carefull what you do! You will be hung along side them by Qantas & CASA :eek:

[acslame]

I am actually looking forward to seeing the scab list.
after friday all will be revealed.
no hiding then boys!!

[fordran]

CASA won't be hanging anyone we all know who runs them. It starts with Q and it ends in disaster.

[ConcernedLAME]

From what I hear Management and others have had specific training from QF and verbals with CASA to reinstate their licence status..Can any one confirm this???

And BTW ...Bring that **** On...Its time to Pay!!!
For too long has GD been able to manipulate and lie to his workforce....
It must stop...Get ready for early retirement I suspect.

Cheers

[Short_Circuit]

Temporally removed for my safety & awaiting advise from the ALAEA

[wheel]

i have heard it all now sabotage you must be joking!:eek:

[Ngineer]

Rest assured that those DMM's and others that choose to stay back on Thursday are probably getting their pockets lined by management. But thats OK. Just be sure that if you are going to sell out on your mates, that the price was worth it.

[acslame]

Are you for real short circuit!
Not even Qf management can be that stupid as to think that.
They really have no idea do they!
We are not sabotaging aircraft.
All we are doing is not giving 110%
The fleet is doing the rest.
Thats the problem.
Management really has no idea what
we actually do.
If they stopped going on tree hugging jaunts and
actually acted like managers and spent time with the
workforce they might have a clue, actually
when your manager doesn't understand why we
have 2 clocks showing different times we really don't
have much of a chance do we.
Remember, what you reap is what you sow
If anyone is sabotaging the fleet is DC and
his bodgy outsourced maintenance
Well done Dave.

[Short_Circuit]

Are you for real short circuit!

YES!
Someone is making false allegations against us.

[Toolpants]

Short Circuit, I just logged on and missed what you said.
Post it again but just word it in a way that protects you.
Change the names to protect the guilty (or innocent)
Make it a hypothetical story

[life_sentence_as_AME]

After reading the posts from chksatis and Short_Circuit about an AME's role in these times of ALAEA industrial action I thought I should post the contents of an AWU Member Update I received that was released 16 May 2008.

I think most people understand that although the AME's 100% support the LAME's we are not 'legally' allowed to participate in any of your action.

The text below was copied directly from the notice.

The AWU is fully supportive of the ALAEA membership with respect to their claims for a new enterprise bargaining agreement to cover their future terms and conditions of employment with Qantas.

The ALAEA membership has recently voted to approve a range of lawful industrial action options against Qantas in pursuit of their collective claims. This action includes bans on overtime, and possibly strike action of up to 48 hours’ duration (depending on the actions of Qantas).

In the event that any of these measures are authorised or undertaken by the ALAEA, or its membership, there are some important things that AWU members must be aware of in terms of their legal rights and obligations.

These are –

1. You may be required to work a “reasonable amount of overtime”. In a general industrial sense, this means that you may be lawfully required to work up to an additional 2-4 hours per week, with appropriate penalty rates applied. This is a “common law” contractual requirement of all employees, and this legal principle applies to all Qantas employees. If you have any personal or family related reasons as to why you can’t undertake additional overtime, you should immediately raise this with your supervisor and seek the assistance of your AWU Branch Organiser as soon as possible.

2. You may be requested to perform work above, or in addition to, the work that you normally do within your pay scale or classification level. Provided that you are legally qualified, skilled, competent, trained and experienced to perform the work requested, you should comply with the request, if it is made by Qantas. If the work requested is above your pay scale or classification level, you should be paid at the higher rate.

3. For those AWU members that are engaged as LAME’s within Qantas Group operations, you are prevented by law from participating in any industrial action undertaken by members of the ALAEA. If you are uncertain of your rights with respect to this, or if you feel that you are being placed under pressure from anyone to participate in industrial action undertaken by the ALAEA or its members, please contact your AWU Branch Organiser immediately.

AWU members may enquire why they cannot participate in, or fully support, the industrial action that is being proposed by the ALAEA and its membership against Qantas. The Workplace Relations Act prohibits employees, and their unions, from engaging in industrial action that is not
lawful. This means that the AWU and its members are prevented from undertaking any form of industrial action (eg. bans, limitations on the work performed, strikes), unless we are currently negotiating an EBA with Qantas and have had the membership approve industrial action through a protected action ballot. Our EBA with Qantas does not expire until the end of December 2008, and therefore the AWU, and you as AWU members, are lawfully prevented from undertaking any form of industrial action in support of the ALAEA members.

With all of this in mind, we wish to impress upon AWU members the importance of standing by our ALAEA brothers and sisters, and we ask that AWU members not take any other steps or measures that will make it more difficult for the ALAEA and its members to achieve their industrial objectives.

If you have any further enquiries with respect to this issue, please contact
AWU National Industrial Organiser Scott McDine on (02) 8005 3333 or
by email at [email protected]. Good luck

[Rotor n Wings]

Hell guy's it is getting real now and good luck to you all.

[Sunfish]

Moderators: Please watch for trolls making inflammatory accusations of illegal acts such as sabotage or threats against people.

Gentlemen, my guess is that Mr. Dixon is going to take this all the way in the most theatrical way possible. He craves attention, and he is going to get it from the public all the way to the Prime Ministers Office as he pretends to "fight the good fight" against his staff.

The only way you are going to win this one is with iron discipline and self control. Please make no threats to anyone.

If you allow yourself to be provoked you will lose, and there will be plenty of provocation, for example if there are any allegations of sabotage, which is both highly illegal let alone immoral, you will see security staff with guard dogs "protecting the company's assets".

You are up against a management that enjoys causing pain and misery, the more public the better, because it makes them feel important.

As for Qantas profits, in my opinion, you will not make the slightest dent in this years annual result, that's already locked in. Prolonged action may make a dent in the 2008/2009 result, but that will not be from burning extra jet fuel as Ragnar Benson suggests, it will come from reducing QF's market share, although there is a lower limit to that because QF has the lion's share of capacity into and out of Australia (something which it doesn't deserve any more).

So that's what's important and that's what they cannot ignore - reduction in market share. You might like to tell the travelling public that QF does not deserve their support any more because of how they treat their staff.

[motown man]

Sunfish,

I think the point that Ragnar Benson was trying to make is that everyday within the network the big Q throw away millions of dollars due to the absolute incompetency of the Management team. They really do not understand the operation. If Q were smart enough theres no need to have this argument as there are a multitudes of savings easily obtainable that would pay for any payrise. The saving of fuel is one that Ragnar has identified. They introduce a policy but they dont engage the staff or provide the resources to implement it.

It has been my experience that there is no accountabilty for the hundreds of millions wasted on Telstra IT/A330 floor beams/EQ etc etc by poor management decisions. This occurs because they dont engage the people doing the job and who understand whats required.

In the end for years the guys on the floor have done work arounds to make the system work. As an example I have seven plus passwords and have to log into each computer application separately just to change a component. This is jurassic park staff that our management team throw at us and they tell us you cant have a payrise without a productivity increase.

From on the floor looking up you see that it far easier for the management to quible with the staff over 2% and neck poor old jo avaerage rather than they themselves being held accountable for any negligance. If only the shareholders had the smokescreen of the "Australian Airline" removed. In my experience theres not too many aussie values left in my work place displayed by management.

Management dont want our input. They have a complete arrogance when it comes to thier employees and the shareholders.

But then again isnt GD the only person that works for Q??

[dr skydrol]

Sunfish to suggest sabotage you don't understand the lame culture. I have not heard nor will I ever hear of a Lame willfully sabotaging an aircraft. We are there as representives of Casa to ensure that the Flying public is protected against these companies trying to cut corners to save $$$$.
Most of us are us trying to come to terms with the extra delays now as it has always been in our blood to get the aircraft out on time even it means forgoing our lunch or smoko breaks. However Mr 'Dick"son has knifed us so many times now our goodwill blood has run out of our bodies.
To our Fed Exec.Well done not cancellling our feedback meetings. The cat and mouse with 'Dick'son had to come to an end. He would have only turned up at the meeting and said get :mad: anyway. as more union EBA's come to an end maybe he will start to listen, but then again he lives in a bubble. STAND UNITED. We have entered the next phase.

[Short_Circuit]

Please watch for trolls making inflammatory accusations of illegal acts such as sabotage or threats against people.


To clear up what has been said the last 2 pages.

Without saying too much, someone has said to Dixon's direction that "LAMEs may be engaging in acts of sabotage". :confused:

Unfounded, lies coming from sh!t stiring managements mouth. :=

[UP D Date]

Sounds like MH and DC trying to cover their ars!s as to why the whole airline has now turned to sh!te...

[The Black Panther]

Lets look at some of the great decisions by our Management.
Please copy and paste this list as you want to add to it. It will make great reading the the managers when they see it sitting around the smoko room.
Target is $1 Billion by the end of the day.

1. Top of the List - "You've got to be mental not to accept this offer"...$40 million in Admin & regulator fees.
2. A330 galleys. At the 11th hour, oops we might take that option. here's an extra $90 million for our oversight.
3. Suggestion scheme - one of the first negative steps we saw was the cancellation of the staff suggestion scheme. Since reintroduced after someone reassessed the value of such a scheme. $200 million in lost savings from employee ideas
4. EQ- what a debacle! $200million written off after 6 years of a 10year plan. Have a look at it now. The most unfriendly piece of IT crap I have seen. How many times has someone asked you "How do find this in EQ?"
5. Qantasizing the Maintenance Manuals- try searching for "hydraulic pump" -oops one too many words for the search engine. "No results found" $2m
6. Maintenance Manuals for non Boeing items. You need to know who made the part and by what trading name that company uses. What if you can't see the part you want to replace. You know - get a spare before you start tearing down wall panels- guess what I don't know who makes it. Perhaps the IPC will help. No, no part listed thus no vendor codes. Lets do the very professionalism step and just ask someone, I mean that's what CASA would suggest ?? $25m in efficiencies covering on time checks, unschedule delays etc.


Lets continue lads....$537m to date

[str022]

How about the change of Qantas Engineering to ETOMS change all the letter heads, logos,all the official documents only to decide after 5 years it does not suit/work.....
How about that for a brilliant marketing strategy, care to guess how much that cost????
We are approaching the 1 billion target in innefficiencies... and probably go over that target by end of today

:ugh::ugh::ugh::mad::mad::mad::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[What The]

Freight Cartel Price Fixing - $60m (plus yet to be determined civil suits from affected parties)

$597m


Probably the most expensive blunder, disengaging the entire Qantas employee group.

Cost - $1bn plus per annum at least (ka-ching!)

There's the $1bn mark.

Now, let's go for $2bn.

What did the Hewitt engagement survey cost that never saw the light of day due to the poor results and bad reflection on Qantas management.

[sickofqf]

To clear up what has been said the last 2 pages.

Without saying too much, someone has said to Dixon's direction that "LAMEs may be engaging in acts of sabotage".

Unfounded, lies coming from sh!t stiring managements mouth.


and surely without the EVIDENCE to back it up that is nothing but SLANDER and the association should immediately take personal action against the manager-slime who made the accusations in the appropriate court of law.

[AlanShore]

Sabotage is a crime under the Criminal Code (all states and federal), punishable by a maximum of life imprisonment.
Defamation is a civil action, punishable by the whim of the jury, (but up to and including the loss of your house and every asset you own).
If you accuse any LAME of sabotage, you'd better have proof or else the deeds of your house when you make those claims.

[K9P]

The Black Panther

Lets look at some of the great decisions by our Management.
Please copy and paste this list as you want to add to it. It will make great reading the the managers when they see it sitting around the smoko room.
Target is $1 Billion by the end of the day.

1. Top of the List - "You've got to be mental not to accept this offer"...$40 million in Admin & regulator fees.
2. A330 galleys. At the 11th hour, oops we might take that option. here's an extra $90 million for our oversight.
3. Suggestion scheme - one of the first negative steps we saw was the cancellation of the staff suggestion scheme. Since reintroduced after someone reassessed the value of such a scheme. $200 million in lost savings from employee ideas
4. EQ- what a debacle! $200million written off after 6 years of a 10year plan. Have a look at it now. The most unfriendly piece of IT crap I have seen. How many times has someone asked you "How do find this in EQ?"
5. Qantasizing the Maintenance Manuals- try searching for "hydraulic pump" -oops one too many words for the search engine. "No results found" $2m
6. Maintenance Manuals for non Boeing items. You need to know who made the part and by what trading name that company uses. What if you can't see the part you want to replace. You know - get a spare before you start tearing down wall panels- guess what I don't know who makes it. Perhaps the IPC will help. No, no part listed thus no vendor codes. Lets do the very professionalism step and just ask someone, I mean that's what CASA would suggest ?? $25m in efficiencies covering on time checks, unschedule delays etc.


Lets continue lads....$537m to date

Then there's LEAN SIGMA (that never worked) and you could get a "Black Belt" in it LOL Budget $30 million.

[The Black Panther]

Qantas wage cut attempt unacceptable: ACTU

Posted 13 minutes ago
Australian Council for Trade Unions (ACTU) president Sharan Burrow says the future of a pay dispute between engineers and Qantas lies with the airline.
Qantas has called off today's planned meeting with the ACTU to discuss the issue.
The engineers will stop work in Sydney and Brisbane tomorrow and in Melbourne on Friday to discuss further industrial action.
Ms Burrow says the airline is trying to dictate a real wage cut for the workers at a time when it is posting record profits.
"What the Qantas engineers need is to maintain their living standards and a 3 per cent offer take it or leave it from the company is actually a cut in real wages," she said.
"That isn't acceptable in the face of what we understand to be a forecast record profit."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/28/2257943.htm?section=justin

[Toolpants]

Jetsmart / Part Smart – What a Joke - $100M
It was that useless they had to leave the old COM system running as well.

[Big Enis Burdett]

Don't forget the "Tragedy Map" How much did they pay the truck load of consultants to come up with that piece of crap.

[Nepotisim]

How about we move component overhaul out to Bankstown, that will save us lots of money and increase efficiency.

Mmmmm....................5 years later.

How about we move component maintenance back to Mascot. That will save us lots of money and increase efficiency due to the parts all being in one place.

How much are the lightbulb group costing us? What exactly do they do?

I am not a bean counter so someone else will have to put a figure on that one.

[The Black Panther]

The Qantas Management Liabilities.

Update:
1. Failed takeover big adminstration and regulation costs: Est $40m
2. A330 galley modification post acceptance contract: Reported $90m (Total to date $130m)
3. Staff Suggestion scheme: Includes the degeneration of morale and positive contributions by employess.
Est $200m over 10 years (TTD $330m)
4. EQ - Reported: $200m (TTD $530m)
5. In house AMM cost above externally available software : Est$27m (TTD $557m)
6. ETOMS/QE adminstrtaion Est $5m (TTD $562m)
7. Price fixing fines Reported $60m (TTD $662m)
8. Negative employee attitude to mangement, effecting leave, labour efficency, work output. $100m p.a. (TTD $762m)
9. Lean Sigma another word for house upkeep $30m (TTD $792m)
10. Jetfart and Fartpart Est: $100m Almost outdoes EQ but the outside contractors cleaned up: Est $100m (TTD $892m)
11. Tradegy Map. Est $29.95 not reportable (TTD $889m)
12. Telstra IT - Even the 26666 support bag the crap out of Telstra's IT support Est: $100m p.a. (TTD $989m)
13. Excess paper costs by the forest eating cameo system - 14 pages for 1 task Est $5m p.a. (TTD $994m)
14. Component Maintenance dancing Est $3m (TTD $997m)

Almost there callers, com'on dig deep for this great charity. Only another $3m

[The Mr Fixit]

In regards to the STOP WORK MEETINGS that are to take place in SYD, BNE and MEL

Every single LAME who is available must be there to support your brothers and sisters that are going over the trenches and are taking the first hit

To every single union member in Qantas your support is crucial the ALAEA is taking the first step to break the glass ceiling join us we need to know you are with us

Be under no misunderstanding this is DO OR DIE


COME ONE COME ALL
COME OUT STAND TALL
STAND TALL STAND STRONG
WE KNOW WE ARE IN THE RIGHT AND DIXON IS WRONG

WE ASK FOR 5%, WE ASK ONLY WHAT IS FAIR
THE MANAGEMENT ARE PIGS AT A TROUGH WHO JUST DON'T CARE
WE NO LONGER ACCEPT TO BE TREATED AS SLAVES
TO WORK FOR A PITTANCE THEN RETIRE TO OUR GRAVES

THE ALAEA HAVE SAID ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
MEN AND WOMEN OF PRINCIPLE THEY HAVE THE RIGHT STUFF
JOIN THEM NOW AS THEIR ACTION WILL SET US ALL FREE
FOR WHAT THEY DO TODAY WILL CREATE A NEW TOMORROW FOR YOU AND ME

IT IS OUR WAY TO STAND UP FOR OUR MATES
BEING AUSTRALIAN IT IS OUR FATE
COME ONE COME ALL
COME OUT STAND TALL

[FMU]

Don’t forget to add the cost of the ACS “Amazing People” get-togethers in the bush. This program that was designed to bring ACS together and to get everyone speaking in new terms such as “above/below the line” etc has been a failure.
Never have the ACS staff been so disengaged from the management!
Cost to engineering- I don’t know, but I’m sure the Amazing Peoples profits are up!

[1746]

"Amazing People" $14,000 per person per course - add that up!

Truely AMAZING!!!!!!!:eek::ouch:

[The Black Panther]

The Qantas Management Liabilities.

Update:
1. Failed takeover big adminstration and regulation costs: Est $40m
2. A330 galley modification post acceptance contract: Reported $90m (Total to date $130m)
3. Staff Suggestion scheme: Includes the degeneration of morale and positive contributions by employess.
Est $200m over 10 years (TTD $330m)
4. EQ - Reported: $200m (TTD $530m)
5. In house AMM cost above externally available software : Est$27m (TTD $557m)
6. ETOMS/QE adminstrtaion Est $5m (TTD $562m)
7. Price fixing fines Reported $60m (TTD $662m)
8. Negative employee attitude to mangement, effecting leave, labour efficency, work output. $100m p.a. (TTD $762m)
9. Lean Sigma another word for house upkeep $30m (TTD $792m)
10. Jetfart and Fartpart Est: $100m Almost outdoes EQ but the outside contractors cleaned up: Est $100m (TTD $892m)
11. Tradegy Map. Est $29.95 not reportable (TTD $889m)
12. Telstra IT - Even the 26666 support bag the crap out of Telstra's IT support Est: $100m p.a. (TTD $989m)
13. Excess paper costs by the forest eating cameo system - 14 pages for 1 task Est $5m p.a. (TTD $994m)
14. Component Maintenance dancing Est $3m (TTD $997m)
15. Amazing tricks weekend $14000 x 214 particpants $3m (TTD $1 Billion !!!)

Well done callers. How can the CEO be worried about $360m company wide.

Pay the workers a fair deal and we will help curb these huge annual loses if management would just go to the coal face occasionally and engage there workforce. Instead of threating them with 'the competition of globalisation', the fuel price is rising, it's the end of air travel, (Did we forget every other airline faces the same challenge), the government will open up the skies to every known airline in the world, Terrorism will stop people traveling, take over GD your the best at it......

[Millet Fanger]

How about the efficiency of moving the RB211 engine line from the new "centre of excellence" building back into the old EOC, just prior to it's demolition to make way for the A380 Hangar / hardstand area.

I wouldn't mind having my 1/1700 share of these Qantas Engineering efficiencies. Need to buy a new car to transport the soon to be increased size of my family. Got the misses up the duff - without the Overtime happening I had nothing better to do!

[Anulus Filler]

Don’t forget to add the cost of the ACS “Amazing People” get-togethers in the bush. This program that was designed to bring ACS together and to get everyone speaking in new terms such as “above/below the line” etc has been a failure.
Never have the ACS staff been so disengaged from the management!
Cost to engineering- I don’t know, but I’m sure the Amazing Peoples profits are up!

I don't know if this one has been that much of a waste of money for QF. I have seen the most militant go on these tree hugging courses...on their return they are in a zombie-like trance praising GD for his cost cutting efforts and actually ringing him giving a few suggestions of their own. Must be some sort of :mad:king chip implanted in your brain whilst sleeping. If I were on one I wouldn't be sleeping for 4 days...:sad:

[The Black Panther]

It is Amazing.
The first time QE spends some dollars on teaching supervisors some people management skills and guess what....we are going the have the biggest industrial dispute QE has every encountered.

Amazing indeed.

[blubak]

This backout by the ceo is just another excuse-he knows very well (all he has to do is see the offer to provide a skeleton staff) that the assoc and now the actu are ready to talk(as they always have been).Its very interesting to note that almost every 1 of the posts on here gives the same reasons for us all having a gutful.Maybe amazing people or some other consultants could spell it out to the company that its time to take us seriously instead of trying to make us look like fools. IT WONT WORK!!

[crow17]

Every single LAME who is available must be there to support your brothers and sisters that are going over the trenches and are taking the first hit
I cannot agree more. This is the first real chance for GD to see all the ALAEA members in full force, united like never before. Every member who doesn't have a broken leg( and then he should use crutches) should be at these meetings giving their full support. NO excuses.:D:D:D

[Johnny V]

Go on your merry little way

We have our alternative workforce ready to go though a few have dropped out

Pathetic poem Fixit you've obviously too much time on your hands and soon you will have more

To the black pussy you worry about fixing aircraft and we'll worry about the money it need not worry you what we do with it after all we made it of your backs and paid you what you are worth

[acslame]

Well done little johnny. good to see you
show some spirit.
We will see soon enough though wont we.
Remember this time we are taking 4hrs off
during a low peak period.
next time it may be on a monday morning.
Good to see you believe to BS getting fed
up to senior management.
Its clowns like you who have caused the
disasters we work with on a daily basis.
I for one am looking forward to seeing your
pathetic little scab army in action
Wonder if we will hear from you next week?

[mister hilter]

First they came for the Flight Attendants and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Flight Attendant, Then they came for the LAMEs, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Lame. Then they came for the Pilots, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Pilot. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.
With apologies and thanks to Martin Niemoeller. http://www.hoboes.com/html/FireBlade/Politics/niemoller.shtml (http://www.hoboes.com/html/FireBlade/Politics/niemoller.shtml)
I am a LAME and I intend to stand up and be heard.
I am LAME hear me roar.
This time apologies and thanks to Helen Reddy.
Do not waver; there are plenty who want to support us.
LAMEA380, johnnyv, wingers, lord of the wangs et al, try not to be around when there is not a soul left to speak up for you.
Grouter

[sickofqf]

maybe he meant he's going to accelerate our leaving.......he's idiotic enough to believe his a-licks who are probably telling him he can manage just fine without us.......

Awesome, give us all redundancy and we can all come back as scabs, on 3 times the money, to bail out the management fools who don't know which way up a dust cap goes.......

master stroke geoff...you truly are a genius........

and i bet the executive bonus scheme isn't on hold.........

[Collando]

Do not underestimate Their resolve. This will be protracted and drawn out.(even more)

Exerpt from The Australian 28/5/08 on QANTAS chairman Leigh Clifford.

Clifford remains a steadfast defender of management's right to run a business in the interests of shareholders and of an employee's right to work without unwanted interference by union representatives.
Which means that Clifford is likely to fly all the way with Geoff Dixon if the Qantas boss moves to define his final years at the airline by drawing a firm new line in its IR sand.
Dixon is currently in a stand-off with the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association over the union's 5 per cent annual wage claim.
Qantas has offered the same 3 per cent annual pay rise, plus 1 per cent extra superannuation contribution, which has been locked into agreements accepted by unions covering about 40 per cent of Dixon's workforce.
Dixon says Qantas will not yield to union demands that would add something like $360 million a year to his bottom line by year three of the Enterprise Bargaining Agreements under negotiation.
Monday's news that Qantas discount offspring Jetstar is sensibly looking to bring in foreign pilots to overcome critical shortages has only added to the tension
Qantas is one of two seriously profitable airlines in the world. Protecting and enhancing its ability to prosper through what most predict will be an enduring energy crisis is a challenge of national significance.
Which is why Dixon is ready to stare down the unions this time. :yuk:

but

Engineers hold considerable industrial power in the aviation sector because planes cannot fly without clearance from engineers

Now is the winter of our discontent.

Keep the faith, Keep up the proffesionalism, do what is right by your employer,for He is the reason you have food on the table and a roof over your head.However do not let him take you for granted and abuse your goodwill. Stand up and be counted,for what is fair and reasonable and what you truly believe in.:D

[wanty]

"Amazing People" $14,000 per person per course - add that up!

Truely AMAZING!!!!!!!:eek::ouch:


LOL, the mind truly boggles.:ok::ok:

[Mr Invisible]

Mr Fixit says

"In regards to the STOP WORK MEETINGS that are to take place in SYD, BNE and MEL

Every single LAME who is available must be there to support your brothers and sisters that are going over the trenches and are taking the first hit

To every single union member in Qantas your support is crucial the ALAEA is taking the first step to break the glass ceiling join us we need to know you are with us

Be under no misunderstanding this is DO OR DIE"

I'M WITH YOU ALBEIT A THOUSAND KMS AWAY, WISHING ALL MY SYDNEY BROTHER AND SISTERS IN ARMS THE BEST, SOCK IT TO'EM

STAND TALL, STAND STRONG

GOTTA LUV A POET

[Toolpants]

What’s going on, I’m confused.

Dicko is in the news paper today talking about accelerated annual leave plus redundancies.

YES PLEASE. I’m ready for either.

Can someone let my manager know because the only leave I’m getting at the moment is “Sick Leave” (and I've only got 130 days of that left)

[Silmarillion]

Let's not forget one of the biggest leeches on the Qantas Finances "JETSTAR".

They are supposed to pay for one engineer to transit a plane, but some days require up to 5 extra blokes to carried out virtual C checks during a transit.

When management asked whether we were receiving money back into our cost centre, the answer we got was it's coming back in dribs and drabs.

When pressed on the subject, our manager informed us the money was coming in, but at Cox's level. To date we still haven't seen a cent of that money.

Yet again Qantas Engineers get reamed to line upper managements pockets.

[ACARS747]

Are you mechanics still going to go on your "stop work" after all the announcements about the problems facing the business.

surely you aren't that ignorant to press for your 5%! just accept what everyone else has accepted.

Some of the posts on here are pure and simple fantasy! dont forget everyone has helped make Qantas what it is today NOT JUST YOU mechanics....... now get real!

[POT100]

According to todays media release from our illustrious CEO, the OT ban is not having much of an effect..
Am I the only one who thinks that NASA should have picked him up and delivered him back to his home on Mars.?..

Is Mr Ego that out of touch with what is going on with his airline??
He is destroying this company day by day..

It seems that there are no schedules at the moment just get an a/c ready and we'll see where we can send it!!!...And this management has got us to where we are today????...me thinks its time to get the rubber room ready...and throw away the key!!!

Its time for a 24hr stoppage...
I have seen what this can do to an airline and this arrogant board will not know whats hit them!!!
It will cost them millions and take days to get back to normal..

Believe me GD, you do not want that!!

[Flugbegleiter]

Are you mechanics still going to go on your "stop work" after all the announcements about the problems facing the business.

surely you aren't that ignorant to press for your 5%! just accept what everyone else has accepted.

The rest of us have accepted it mostly because we are industrially too weak. If we (flight attendants) had been able to fight for more, we certainly would have. We have been totally screwed, just like most Qantas staff. The LAMEs are one of the only groups who have any real power to fight hard.

And I don't really give a **** about the hard times ahead - I've heard it all before! Wolf! Wolf! When times were "bad", most of the company took an 18 month wage freeze. When times have been good, we have been getting pay "rises" which are below inflation - effectively a pay cut.

This has gone on for too long. My wage has slipped backwards over the years, just as the LAMEs' wages have; all the while, senior management has congratulated themselves and rewarded themselves with disgustingly massive pay-rises and bonus. It is corrupt! It's time someone said "Enough is enough".

ALAEA, you have plenty of support!

[ACARS747]

support................

they may say out loud...............but do you honestly think anyone will jeopardise their employment because the mechanics want more than what others got....................

Anyway they will back down, they always do, as with most mechanics its all bravado and talk, when push comes to shove they will eat each other.....

[rogueLAME]

Never heard some much hot air. This is coming from the same people in the same association that has done nothing but increase union fees for negioating a 3%' pay cut to its members for years. 20 years of increase and not one walk out. Why now!! Little boys now spitting the dummy

You get your money's worth boys cause your union always has.

By the way, its going up again July 1.

[wanty]

Are you mechanics still going to go on your "stop work" after all the announcements about the problems facing the business.

surely you aren't that ignorant to press for your 5%! just accept what everyone else has accepted.

Some of the posts on here are pure and simple fantasy! dont forget everyone has helped make Qantas what it is today NOT JUST YOU mechanics....... now get real!

One can easily see from your name that you are a pilot.
lol, please,if your going to call someone ignorant,do not begin a sentence with a lower case letter,sentences begin with a capitol. Even my 9 year old knows this already.

Secondly,we are ENGINEERS,not mechanics.

Last of all,remember this,there are such machines around nowadays called "UAV'S", you know those machines which are "unmannned",ie no pilot.
It is Engineers which build and repair these machines,not bus drivers.

[NAS1801]

...to the tune of a famous Mental As Anything song..... This message is hidden because ACARS747 is on your ignore list. This message is hidden because rogueLAME is on your ignore list. Woah-ho...... the list is getting bigger......

[wanty]

Posts from a European aviation engineers website



I am Aircraft fitter and am looking to the future and a new life !!!!!!!!!!! I am looking to head down under but need help .............. I have started applying for a visa but need to find a job first before i make the big step so all help will be gratefully received..................... web sites and the best place to go for work and a life style............

many thanks


Re: moving on Try these for a start

http://www.jhas.com.au/ (http://www.jhas.com.au/)
www.aviationlabour.com.au (http://www.aviationlabour.com.au/)
http://www.ausaero.com.au/ (http://www.ausaero.com.au/)



http://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/images/icons/icon1.gif Re: moving on
Plenty of soap dodgers in Adelaide as well.

But on a more serious note avoid this mob at all cost,

http://www.resumedomain.com/displayad.asp?adcode=C8278 (http://www.resumedomain.com/displayad.asp?adcode=C8278)

They're recruiting scabs for possible strike break action at Qantas.
You certainly don't want your name to appear on that list if your
looking for work in Oz.

Re: moving on I made the mistake of applying with this mob of Qantas strike breakers last week, They are putting out a blind AD after Licenced Engineers, when I found out what the real job was for they were not happy when I asked for name to removed from thier list of applicants.



Well,well,well. It is a small industry after all. Scabs will be remembered far and wide.

Particularly liked the post where Qantas got ****ty because a bloke wanted his name removed from thier list.:ok::ok::ok:

[splashman]

ACARS747,

Yes, we are mechanics, but you are not talking to fools.

Have you ever certified for a 747 ACARS system to be airworthy, in accordance with the requirements of the regulationary body, ( ie CASA ), on behalf of the people who on fly an Australian registered aircraft, and taken responsibility for that certification legally, with the knowledge that there are lives at stake should you make an error?

Nice try, but not good enough.

All the mechanics out there know, that with a few extra yards, all that you will recieve, is via what is happening now, and past.

I would doubt that there has ever been a LAME, not support an AME in going those few extra yards. I never have !

Good but not good enough ACARS747.

[Nepotisim]

From the SMH website............

Qantas has blamed the relentless rise in fuel prices for the first major cut in its services since the SARS crisis hit the airline industry five years ago, after announcing plans to retire and ground some of its domestic aircraft from July.

Reflecting moves by several US airlines to ground some aircraft rather than fly on uneconomic routes, Qantas has announced its plans to exit several low-yielding routes, including the Sydney-Gold Coast route in order to cut costs.

The airline said the domestic cuts equate to the grounding of six jets.

Within a week, Qantas said it will follow through with extra cuts to its international network.

Warning the airline's fuel bill could increase $2 billion next financial year, Qantas chief executive Geoff Dixon said in a statement this afternoon: "The fact is that fuel prices are something we have no control over, so we have to look harder at areas where we do have control."

Mr Dixon said the airline's fuel hedging policy, fuel surcharges, recruitment freeze and recent fare increases were not enough to ward off the "widening gap between the actual increase in the cost of fuel and the amount we offset".

Qantas at present only pays around US$72 a barrel for its oil needs, due to its fuel hedging policy where it locks in its fuel contracts at the start of every financial year. But from July 1, the fuel hedging will drop off and most of Qantas's fuel bill will be exposed to the current market price of around US$130 a barrel. It only has a small portion of its fuel bill for 2008-09 locked in at around US$90 a barrel.

Qantas plans to "ground" two Boeing 767s, retire one ageing 737 and speed up the retirement of its fuel-guzzling fleet of four 747-300s.

But in a worrying sign, Qantas said its low-cost subisidiary Jetstar would cancel the delivery of one A321 and ground another of its relatively new A320s. This counters moves by other airlines to focus on the retirement of older and less fuel efficient jets. Jetstar said the grounded A320 would be used as a "spare".

Jetstar will also cut back on services, axing its Sydney-Whitsunday Coast service and cutting back or axing several other routes.

"We must take these hard decisions now, however, if we are to ensure the ongoing strength of Qantas, preserve the jobs of the vast majority of our current workforce and position ourselves for growth when the trading environment improves," said Mr Dixon.






The 747-300's, sorry, gas guzzling 747-300 were always going. Two this year and two early next year. Rather expensive section 41 inspections/mods due. Has someone seen a Wolf?:eek:

[NAS1801]

It is Engineers which build and repair these machines,not bus drivers. As a wise old LAME I work with once said

You can teach a monkey to ride a bike, but what happens when the chain falls off?

[Toolpants]

It was interesting what Mr Dick didn’t say.

He (as usual) told everyone the doom and gloom. The world will end …..BUT…. He did not mention any Profit Down Grade.
His last correspondence to the ASX was “Record Profit”.


Now I’m no expert – but I’m pretty sure if your profits look like they are in doubt, you need to let the ASX (or somebody) know. They have pretty strict rules about that sort of thing.

His ASX statement today DID say “Qantas remains a fundamentally strong company, with a good balance sheet….”

[Toolpants]

BTW: Before anyone else responds to ACARS747, read his other posts.
He joined in APR2006 and has only made 6 posts since joining.
It is worth reading all 6 to work out who your dealing with.
Definitely “ignore”.

The QF pilots are on our side. Lets keep it that way.

[ejectx3]

yes we are..very much on your side......

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Should get some good press today fellas. At this stage we will be on Today show after the 0700 news and Sunrise sometime after 8.

cheers

[chanel1234]

wanty,

re your post i met with this company in the UK this week, the job i was offered was not as a scab , am considering it, i dont think that there is any problem with this , it is another role with a two year intial contract with good pay and conditions , so hopefully if i accept i wont be discriminated against.

[JETTRONIC]

Dixon is just manufacturing a gloom and doom story to smash the LAMES.

Funny that they announce the downgrade just before the industrial action begins...... Smell a rat.:confused:


The war has begun.

[PIOT Bord]

Good Job ALAEA Exec.

Very good media coverage in papers and on TV. Main reoccurring points are:- Qantas only offering 3%, Qantas cancelled negotiation meeting.

Two major financial institutions have expressed 'concerns' to Qantas about industrial unrest, Standard and Poors have down graded Qantas credit rating. Unforunately, these are the only people that Dixon will listen to.

[max1]

Acars747,
Are you positive that EVERYONE in Qantas has only taken 3%.
Maybe people in YOUR airline would not be so upset if EVERYONE had taken only 3%. Do as I say, not as I do is liable to get people cranky.
Doing the sums 3% of 4/5/6 million is still pretty good compared to 3% of 80/90/100 k. If you wish to point out pay the going rate for the right people that is fine also.

[beachhead]

The workers have been busy and had a HARDS morning at the Domestic Terminal. Pushbacks on Bay 1 with no one sorting out the roadway traffic lights and commencing pushbacks with the chocks still in the main gear to name a few. Please, please, please Take 5 and think about safety.

[blubak]

Hope all were listening to ACTU president on tv saying anything can be negotiated.We know ALAEA is listening-maybe time someone else opened their ears and took notice of the word NEGOTIATE! Just so that someone is not confused!!! NEGOTIATE, and again NEGOTIATE!

[N.E.R.D.]

Taken from ABC news:

Qantas chief executive officer Geoff Dixon says most of the engineers earn $130,000 a year and are not the working poor.

"Since 2001 these engineers have had a 37 per cent pay increase overall," he said.

"If you take into account the offer that we made to them, the union accepted a deal with us in January, which was 3 per cent [pay rise] plus 1 per cent superannuation.

"They then decided not to put it to their membership and walked away from it."

It never stops!!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[chockchucker]

As Adolf Hitler once said;" the bigger the lie, the more the people will believe it".


Just a desperate act by a despot frantically trying to maintain both an ego and a performance bonus.


I for one am a level 8 LAME who last year made $45,000 LESS than Mr. Dixon's "average" wage for LAMES.


This man is a joke who has now lost any trace of credibility that he once clung to!:mad:

[Ngineer]

You said it chocky. Myself, a smidgeon under 80k.

What is amazing to see is the attitude now of some of these company men. And i'm not talking about your company "yes man". I am talking about the good honest coal-face engineer that turns up everyday early and puts in 110%. Some of these guys are so disheartened about the way things have gone downhill. The resolve of the guys during this industrial action is so strong its incredible. These guy's are the ones with real pride in our workplace. They can see more than anyone whats really going on here.

[sickofqf]

spot on Ngineer. Apart from a few deluded pole climbing a-licks in base who seem to care more about keeping F-C onside so their 'career' keeps progressing, the majority are doing their best to ensure the fleet is as safe as it used to be back in the day......

As for $130k........Geoff, I will gladly take a 3% pay cut if you put me on that rate of pay!!! LYING JACKASS :mad::mad::ugh::ugh::yuk::yuk:

[sickofqf]

Geoff took over in August 2000

Share price was $3.42

Today after 8 years, many trough fulls of million dollar bills into his snout, a completely dislocated workforce, a miserable over-charged customer base, not to mention an attempted squirrelling away of $60million, a price fixing fine from the US and years of falling skies

Share Price is........

....wait for it.......

.......it's gonna be a big rise huh?.......

$3.38

Wow geoff, considering you hate the staff and have stated similar in the press.....you hate the passengers and have stated similar in the press and you LOVE the shareholders ( well one of them anyhow......) it's great to see how well you've served them !!

Exactly what rate of return is MINUS 5 CENTS over 8 years Geoff ?????

:D:D:D:D :ok::ok::ok::ok: :sad::sad::sad::sad: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Toolpants]

Good point SickO.

So…Did the “Dead skin that covers a wound” (I’m trying not to use the word) turn up today during the stop work meetings.

[Ngineer]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23776726-5005961,00.html

For her time she has taken to support us and all Qantas employees, I think Sharan Burrow deserves a big word of thanks from those that have the time to send a msg.

[blubak]

Can somebody please explain to us how we have had a pay rise of 37% since 2001.Obviously we are a lot more stupid than what we thought!!
On the subject of $130,000 per annum as the average wage of engineers-i am sure we would not be shy as to have our pay packets made public-again we must be really stupid as to not know what we earn.
Its ok to use accurate facts but please dont insult us-it wont get you anywhere REPEAT-IT WONT GET YOU ANYWHERE.
1% Super affected a few-You forgot to metion that bit!!

[sickofqf]

I'm more than happy to share a copy of my pay check with the press!!!

[Syd eng]

I would too. Why not show them how much some of us don't earn?