Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[Anulus Filler]

Jetstar heir joins Qantas? top flight : thewest.com.au (http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuId=3&ContentID=99963)

PLEASE EXPLAIN

Could someone explain to me WTF is going on with adding another senior level of management to the already 'senior' levels. How is it that the head of engineering and the head of flt ops will report to another executive which then reports to Joyce?

Looking from the outside, seems like a bit of 'Jobs for the boys' on the part of Joyce.

Better hope it all works out.:sad:

[KING GEORGE II]

now that M got boned, who's sniggih going to have dinner with. On a serious note and to the attention of the FED SEC and Gavin Harris, when will QF investigate the O/T being carried out by the DMM's in club pineapple FNQ. I''m hearing from the boys up north that the 2 unionless DMM's are still writing their own o/t. For 10 years no o/t was carried out by the previous DMM'S and when sniggi and his subordinate got the job (thanks to elma fudd) they racked up 150k in o/t alone. 4 hour call ins daily for useless CPA,senior meetings etc, whilst at the same time no aircraft to be seen. Gav needs to bone the ring leader asap to gain any respect in his new job. good luck

[Nasty Piece of Work]

Understand This

WHILE COX HEADS ENGINEERING NOTHING WILL CHANGE
Once again he has promoted an idiot without due process

ALAEA, What are you doing ? Have you been paid off ?

[Ngineer]

Murray's gone !!! Gavin Harris is the new boss !!!


Is this another rumour or has there been an internal announcement made?

[Johnny V]

I received a distressing email on Friday that announced the departure from Qantas of MH, you b$%^&*#s at the ALAEA have caused another fall of a great man first BD then JV then MH I hate you all QE will slowly descend into the mire as DC has his hands tied by the unions.
GH is an up an comer he has battled hard and paid his dues his strong performance in QLD shows he is made of the right stuff good luck to him maybe he can sought you commies out

[Ngineer]

Looks like it's official then. Good!

Understand This

WHILE COX HEADS ENGINEERING NOTHING WILL CHANGE
Once again he has promoted an idiot without due process

ALAEA, What are you doing ? Have you been paid off ? Yesterday 19:38

Hang in there. This is just the begining, and a movement in the right direction. There is still a bit of Fat to be trimmed from our management. This is just the start.

Keep your heads down and butts up and keep focused on getting em out safely. If you are a LAME (on the floor) you have nothing to worry about.

Don't be fooled into talking the talk or walking the walk of this management crowd that have no aviation engineering experience.

More heads will roll as there is a fox amongst the chickens.

[Short_Circuit]

I can't believe the levels of management these days with a new level created this week. Back in Jimmy Bowtie's days, he cut management down to 4 levels from CEO to shop floor to stop the crap filter,
today there are 9 levels in QE.... out of control crap filters... :ugh::{

[Short_Circuit]

Gavin Harris will take on the new position of Group General Manager Line Maintenance Operation including International, Domestic and Overseas Line Maintenance Operations and the Maintenance Control Centre.

David Hyland will take on the position of Group General Manager Aircraft Maintenance Service swill have responsibility for all Heavy Maintenance and Sydney Base Maintenance facilities, Commercial Planning, Technical Training and the Qantas Engineering Apprentice program.

Bye bye M

http://avatars.jurko.net/uploads/avatar_17005.gif

[Ngineer]

"persue other interests"


Vanished into "intelligent space" .

Amazing People (http://www.amazingpeople.com.au/p.aspx?n=ODUOM-WYEGX-MMEVC-PHHZR-TPEEM)

[Short_Circuit]

Amazing People

The only amazing people I know are the LAME's that have stuck out the buggery campaign and want to re-build QE. :ok:

And a few of the Ops Managers, not all, just a few.

Go the Future Fleet.:)

[POT100]

I'm Sure Gh Will Do A Better Job Than The Previous Incompetent.i Hope He Has The Acumen To Run This Business The Way It Should Be Run And Rebuild All The Broken Bridges..but Will Someone, Please Please Tell Me Why We Still Have That Bungling E.g.m Still In Charge????..if He Continues To Be The Public Face Of Engineering Then God Help Us All!!

[hadagutfull]

GH the GGM of LINE MAINT OPERATIONS. :D...... does this mean the end of this ACS SIO SDO crap....:yuk:
Does this mean the end of TG as well???

At last some movement in the right direction.... hope the momentum continues

[The Black Panther]

G... will take on the new position of Group General Manager Line Maintenance Operation

Another Yes Man. Never had the guts to stand up for his beliefs so it appeared. Else it was just a guise.
Seemed to struggle with face to face managing so perhaps putting him behind a desk is best for his career. Good luck to him. It's a big change from the days when he would be MIA on Saturday afternoons at Base Maintenace while he played cricket and others on his crew covered for him. Doubt his recall will remember those times as he slips on another pair of 'buggery boots'..the first pair have worn out.

Lets just hope we can turn this estranged relationship around before divorce becomes the only resolve.

[division1]

Why not wish GH well in his new job?
Maybe he can now make some real decisions,
decisions that will better our lot in line maintenance.
Blind freddy could see his hands were tied as the macsqld.
With his namesake gone, it gives everyone something to hope for.

[Nasty Piece of Work]

"Why not wish GH well in his new job?
Maybe he can now make some real decisions,
decisions that will better our lot in line maintenance.
Blind freddy could see his hands were tied as the macsqld.
With his namesake gone, it gives everyone something to hope for." :yuk::yuk::yuk:

DIV 1 you had a lot of good things to say during the EBA dispute but this is pure dribble :ugh::ugh::ugh:

A LAME for five mins, a manager for ten and now hes gonna save us, damn me, have you lost the plot ? Blk P has it right another Cox yes man couldn't stand up for the truth then and now will do even less, expect the same **** ops managers, no man transit, no training and useless unaccountable racist bullying managers
"Hey Paul, is it one lantern or two ?"

[The Mr Fixit]

mmmmm a Harris for a Harris.............time will tell :confused:
I would have thought Cox would have learnt by his mistakes though and gone through a rigorous interview program before appointing anyone permanently, this still has the stink of Nepotism I'm afraid :ugh:

[Anulus Filler]

Mr Fixit, I think you meant:


Mathew 5:38
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.


Qantas 09:08
Ye have heard that it hath been said, A Harris for a Harris, and a Cox for a Cock.

:)

[sthaussiepilot]

Sorry if its already been posted,
Lyell Strambi joins a revamped Qantas team | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24408260-23349,00.html)

Thoughts?

[sthaussiepilot]

One of the best things I've herd

The world neither knows or cares if you hate it.

Suck it up buttercup, :ok:

No point hating it, wont help with anything at all

[ampclamp]

thanks.
We won an EBA battle we have a scalp (we assume so anyway) of one of the architects so I just reckon we get on with the job , & make the most of life.
Steve Purvinas :cool: was never going to be given an executive job;) so no matter who gets it some of us will whinge and moan about how useless he /she /is /was/ will /always has been.
Time will tell and I keep an open mind to the change.Costs me nothing.

[Clipped]

1500 LAMEs had been telling the airline for nearly five years that we were heading in the wrong direction. Yet they allowed QE to fall in a heap, to the cost of millions upon millions of $ .. and what has been the NET gain .. that's right, zip.

Gavin and David, speaking on behalf of 1500 LAMEs .. You both have a great responsibility ... don't f#%k it up. There is no more eloquent way to say it.

[B.Dawson]

Guys seriously.....

I'm sorry to say that having seen,and worked for Gavin, I think that not much is going to change.The way he has let the 2 DMM's in Club Pinapple FNQ run unchecked,with huge o/t bills,bullying,chronyism(promoting the useless spineless ass kissers),and the usual idiotic decisions. I don't think that its going to change the spots on the leopard.Talk to the guys in Bris and see if they think its a good move.

So long off the coal face,he forgets what its like down the mine!!

time will tell.

[hannibal lector]

Lets give him a go, we shouldn't judge straight away. He knows what will happen if he upsets the LAME workforce, just look at what happened M. EBA up in 2 years so the way i see it if he does well and we are in a good mood than the EBA will get through with little fuss, if he follows M's path we won't wait 3-4 years we will protest vote and another head will roll.
It's always spoken, " these managers come and go but we will always remain" so i suggest work with us, embrace us, and your life will be easy. Challenge us, provoke us, and you will end up like M. I know G reads these sites so think about the past and correct them for the future. You will only get 2 years so do the right thing.................................................

[The Mr Fixit]

Oh I don't hate the world just the idiots that inhabit it ! ! !

By the way to all the L H Pilots at AIPA......... Lodge for your bargaining period and PIA NOW ! ! !

[Clipped]

He knows what will happen if he upsets the LAME workforce

Make no mistake about it. Q IR will use a different strategy to that of EBA8. They will never allow us to compromise their 'programme'.

They will try to fragment us - just like the pilots, the flt attendants, the caterers and the cargo loaders.

They will use the AMSAs, John Hollands, IASAs, ALGs, Forstaffs, MAS and of course Air Nair and probably a few others to ensure we never wield the same monopolising power we showed in our recent campaign.

But, of course, they could simply begin developing that collapsed 'bridge of trust' and engage the very competent workforce they already have ... Wait, that just sounds too reasonable!

[sthaussiepilot]

Qantas move to put air scares behind it | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24423065-23349,00.html)

Qantas's problems began on July 25, when an explosion ripped a hole in the fuselage of one of its 747s flying from Hong Kong to Melbourne. The hole in the side of the plane forced an emergency landing in Manila.

What it should say is
"Qantas's PR problems began on July 25, when an explosion ripped a hole in the fuselage of one of its 747s flying from Hong Kong to Melbourne. The hole in the side of the plane forced an emergency landing in Manila."

As I recall there was an aborted take off at LAX earlier that year, there was a QF jet land in Adelaide with a cracked window, and maybe a few minor things (I cant remember, so I'm not going to make something up)


(Also just my opinion :ugh: (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24423065-23349,00.html) I'm fairly sure that if they were serious about this they would move maintence back to Australia)

[hewlett]

s a pilot

Make no mistake, they are serious.Not about the quality tho its about the $.Its called risk management.The risk has been taken they just haven't learnt to manage it yet.

[sthaussiepilot]

Pity they cant go back to the older days, where in maintence if a doller needed to be spent, it was done, and there were no questions about it...

(I belive others were discussing that recently)

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Qantas 'not meeting own safety standard' | NEWS.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,24423792-5014090,00.html)

"He also warned unions they needed to ensure the airline remained competitive, and how they responded to that challenge would determine how much work went offshore".

Mr Clifford. It is a two way street. As an engineer, I have seen the rapid decline in management support of engineering over the last five to seven years. We are being expected to do more, with less for less. Constant obstructions in the form of overly complicated and often unworkable procedures implemented by management that are out of touch are one of the main problems we face. Blaming the delays on engineers is buck passing. They were simply following the procedures that your managers had implemented.

Want efficiencies? Remove the layers and layers of management that do little but hider our efforts and start supporting the working staff. I'd suspect this applies to all areas, not just engineering.

[Clipped]

He also warned unions they needed to ensure the airline remained competitive, and how they responded to that challenge would determine how much work went offshore.

"Warned unions". And hence we have found the root of all our problems - The Chairman. With this mentality, what hope do we have?

and

But he conceded that Qantas needed to be more active in rebutting claims of safety problems.

"Rebutt". How about fixing the problems?

It's hopeless.

[Ngineer]

"He also warned unions they needed to ensure the airline remained competitive, and how they responded to that challenge would determine how much work went offshore".

Once again, another bean counter with absolutey no aviation engineering experience or understanding of the importance / history of Qantas engineering, making bold and ignorant comments on engineering cost cutting. Stick to digging out red rock buddy!

[hi-speed tape]

I remember when Gav lost the Singapore contract through gross incompetence then made everything better by figuring out that if he were to get rid of 20 lames from the SIT all would be well !!:D Way to go Gav !!! Can't wait for your next call ! and some folk are saying, give the guy a chance !!:ugh:
When are QF going to bring in some one with a track record????

[hi-speed tape]

PS: and when I say 'track record"' I don't mean the farkin monorail track !

[Torqueman]

Management response to safety claims and how to improve issues.

"Move along, nothing to see here".

:mad:

[Redstone]

No delay as Dixon pockets $12m Qantas pay cheque

· Matt O'Sullivan
· October 1, 2008
QANTAS'S departing boss, Geoff Dixon, was paid almost $12 million last financial year, at the same time he was calling for wage restraint from staff to counter high jet fuel prices.
The salaries for Mr Dixon and his senior executives are likely to create discontent among the airline's staff, who have faced a management intent on capping wage rises at 3 per cent a year and which has laid off 1500 workers.
Mr Dixon's total package of $11.92 million for the year to June included a cash bonus of $3 million and almost $6.4 million in share-based payments. The value of the share component has fallen since grant date and was worth $3.86 million at year-end. Nevertheless, it is big rise on 2006-07, when Mr Dixon's total package reached $6.5 million.
Qantas's share price fell 45 per cent last financial year as it battled high fuel prices and a slowing economy in the last quarter. Yesterday the stock fell 10c, to $3.13.
The airline has also faced heightened fears about the safety of its aircraft and serious problems with its schedules after a 10-week industrial dispute with aircraft engineers.
In May Qantas said it was freezing senior executive pay in response to the high fuel prices.
The carrier's annual report, released yesterday, shows the total package for the former chief financial officer Peter Gregg rose about 50 per cent, to $6.04 million. It included a share-based payment of almost $3 million (worth about $2 million at year-end) and a cash bonus of $1.48 million.
The third-in-charge at Qantas, John Borghetti, took away $2.69 million - almost unchanged - as well as share-based payments of $2.8 million ($2 million at year-end).
Qantas's chief executive-in-waiting, Alan Joyce, enjoyed a 44 per cent increase in his pay to $2.4 million for the year. Mr Joyce, the boss of Jetstar until this week, also benefited from share-based payments valued at $2.3 million at grant date.
Unions have been seeking annual pay rises of about 5 per cent for their members at Qantas.

[Ngineer]

Not sure what to make of the latest union announcement. It seems the company is crying poor that they have insuff manpower to clear a backlog, and are requesting more casual workers because they can't get enough overtimers. WTF!! I know of plenty of LAME's who are willing to work O/T but are not being asked. It seems that the bulls#!t continues to justify outsourcing and cheap labour.

[Ka.Boom]

Not a business but a responsibility.
When will these incompetent management imbeciles see that there is a distinction?

[Talkwrench]

Does Line Maintenance Management realise that there are plenty of LAME's in the Heavy Maintenance sheds getting minimal to no overtime that are ready and willing to assist the Line boys at any time? All they have to do is ask. If the backlog is so bad on the line, surely Heavy Maintenance Management could let a few LAME's go every now and then. It's not like the blokes are run flat off their feet in the middle of a C4 check (except the sheetys!). It shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to establish an arrangement between the two departments to get some sort of call in system going. Obviously first option at OT being the lineys and then if not enough take up, look at the Heavy Maintenance availability list and call em up. Would any Line guys care to comment? Would you prefer Heavy Maintenance blokes come to assist on OT or would you prefer casuals from outside? Furthermore, I note that in the latest ALAEA notice, it is advised that casuals (if they end up working on line) would be prime candidates for taking up permanent positions as they become available. In my opinion, it should be the Heavy Maintenace and Base Maintenance guys that should be the prime candidates and indeed be given preference for any permanent positions that become available on line. To my mind it seems a logical career progression to develop from apprentice to heavy/base as ame then lame and then progress to line. Any comments?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Just a couple of quick answers guys. The recruitment is in to Base Maint Syd so no heavy guys are being cut out unless you wanted a transfer into Syd which I think could be organised.

Any idea for overtime management would be welcomed by the new managers, our meeting was a positive one and yes HM to Line is something already being explored. We have already highlighted that some Line guys are putting their names down for OT and don't get called. I think it is a matter of lining up the workload with known manpower levels.

cheers

[blubak]

Ur spot on NGINEER!!
They are crying poor again,how many chances have they had and still dont know how to treat their workforce with some respect.YES-there are lots of people willing to work o/t(well maybe not so many as before they decided to bully and screw us any way they could during the pia) but as u say the opportunity is NEVER offered.Its time they came out face to face with the workers and listened to how we feel.Get the basics right(including reinstating the pay of all the people who were docked) and then we might think about working o/t or whatever.Remember-an elephant never forgets!
For what its worth-im in agreement with giving the new boss a go,we could be surprised.

[Talkwrench]

Thanks for the quick response fed sec and for the whole execs ongoing efforts post eba8 certification.

[Short_Circuit]

Before time moves on too long, how is the EBA IX log of claims going.

In light of the wage increase of those on the top of the ladder, are we looking at 50% wage rises also? :ok:

[QF94]

Does Line Maintenance Management realise that there are plenty of LAME's in the Heavy Maintenance sheds getting minimal to no overtime that are ready and willing to assist the Line boys at any time? All they have to do is ask. If the backlog is so bad on the line, surely Heavy Maintenance Management could let a few LAME's go every now and then. It's not like the blokes are run flat off their feet in the middle of a C4 check (except the sheetys!). It shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to establish an arrangement between the two departments to get some sort of call in system going. Obviously first option at OT being the lineys and then if not enough take up, look at the Heavy Maintenance availability list and call em up. Would any Line guys care to comment? Would you prefer Heavy Maintenance blokes come to assist on OT or would you prefer casuals from outside? Furthermore, I note that in the latest ALAEA notice, it is advised that casuals (if they end up working on line) would be prime candidates for taking up permanent positions as they become available. In my opinion, it should be the Heavy Maintenace and Base Maintenance guys that should be the prime candidates and indeed be given preference for any permanent positions that become available on line. To my mind it seems a logical career progression to develop from apprentice to heavy/base as ame then lame and then progress to line. Any comments?


For one, when the SIT guys are putting in for O/T, the only option that is given is 12 hours over at base to help them out. Nothing on line as we have no foreign customers, and QF management seem to be balking at bringing them back, or making it very difficult for them to come back. And as has been stated, when guys are putting in for O/T, there are no call backs to come in, so the SIT guys have become accustomed to getting no O/T and therefoe doing no O/T, particularly with the system in place to lodge a chit for O/T by way of fax, and get an SMS to say to come in and report to the base supervisors.

With the current change in engineering management, we can only hope that there is acknowledgement from management of the stuff ups of the past management and move on, otherwise it's just more of the same, but with different names.

It will take more than just O/T to fix the mess that has been left by MH and created by DC. Maybe he should be replaced and have a totally clean slate to start with.

[Clipped]

With the current change in engineering management

Is there, really?

It will need a monumental mindset and management personnel change to begin a positive effect.

Coupled with the news of Dixon's payout - it just reinforces what we have all despised about this crop of management - their lies, greed, selfishness etc etc.

Frankly, it's disgusting.

[The Black Panther]

Clipped wrote:
Coupled with the news of Dixon's payout - it just reinforces what we have all despised about this crop of management - their lies, greed, selfishness etc etc.


I totally agree. The French Prime Minister has described the current credit crunch as being "on the edge of an abyss". Oil prices have fell back to $90 because of world recession due a slowing in demand. Spain, Ireland, Japan and the Netherlands to name a few, are all in recession. Dixon steps off the podium after saying 2009 will be very tough and puts his hand out for the $12m after wasting $150m fighting LAMEs over $2-$3m. I'm not angry, I just feel disillusioned by the immoral and unethical acts corporate leaders display. For our world to be a better place we can do without these two-faced parasites like GD. There are some great leaders out there but unfortunately we encountered one the most distasteful CEO Qantas has ever appointed. I laugh at the one time GD had to make a decision (APA Equity takeover) and it would have sent us to the wall. If oil prices didn't nail us the heavily laden debt we would have carried under the equity model would have. Could you imagine QF obtaining more debt in the climate that will surround business in the next few years. As usual the big red rat was lucky, this time it saved our jobs.

Let's move on and hope his legacy of short term profit, ahead of customers and employees not forgetting deception, lies, greed .....is forever forgotten. I hope his mother still loves him?

Even though some of my peers are reluctant to forget too quickly about the buggery campaign, like any good relationship we need to forgive and move on (note: I did note say forget). Bitterness won't help our long term goals of getting engineering back to the high standards we all know can be achieved.

[The Mr Fixit]

TBP the buggery campaign still lives on in most ports just ask the guys in Cairns, Darwin, Perth, Melbourne, Sydney and Avalon
That is why it is hard to move on it seems the middle managers or the now defunct MACs still have a lot of sh!t on their livers

[HARDNUT]

Fed Sec

To get the maint back on track there has to be more managers leaving. D.C would be a good start to show the company is serious about fixing the problem.

Also in far north QLD there are two DMM's that dont knowthe PIA is over,they are still victimising certain workers who took part in the PIA.

I am suprised they still have jobs.

All i can think is this situation will be taken care of in December when Cairns has a restructure. Cant wait to wave these GREEDY tools goodbye.:ok:

[Anulus Filler]

DIXON & CO., YOU GREED FUELLED INDIVIDUALS, THIS MEANS YOU


CLICK HERE:
Greed has brought us undone: PM | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24451390-601,00.html)

[emal140]

A point worth noting is that GH was chosen and mentored by BD. I think that the plan QF wanted that threw BD and brought in MH was in hindsight MH's undoing. However, the agenda BD was following may now be back in voque as his cadet is now in the high chair. Does this mean permanent nightshifts again...? MH was the outlaw of permanent NS remember... not BD!

[relay429]

"Futhermore, i note that in the latest ALAEA notice, it is advised that casuals (if they end up working on-line) would be prime candidates for taking up permanent positions..."

If it's like two certain part-timers at SIT you have no worries about casuals or them getting a full time position as the pair haven't signed a Return To Service or made a log entry in two years or more. One of them is being paid for a 747 rating that is on his CASA licence but never has had it converted in the EQ system. This has been going on for the last eight years. Additionally if he does get cornered to sign for the classic, which comes across to SIT about twice a year, he can't remember his licence number. These two have set the benchmark for the company (as SIT management know about them) and future part time/casual employees. What a joke.:suspect:

[relay429]

If the backlog is so bad on the line

There is no backlog on the line. People from SIT are being sent to the hangars everyday. So that must mean there is an excess of labour at SIT.

There are certain individuals from SIT that work 12 hour shifts at the hangars on most of their days off, but it's not for the money:E (a RH saying comes to mind) but to provide licence coverage for the depleated base maintenance crews.

Just a thought, but if these individuals declined their coverage on certain shifts that have a shortfall, wouldn't it force the company into putting on more courses to give the base LAMEs and AMEs the opportunity of progressing their careers and benifiting financially. Isn't that what you wanted and most AME's want a career path:ok:

[Ngineer]

We have already highlighted that some Line guys are putting their names down for OT and don't get called.

Thanks Fed Sec. As the SIT guys seem to be becoming the new sl*ts of the base (ie, being shafted from one end of the airport to the other), it's probably only fair that they get a gernsey if there is no overtime at the SIT. (Sorry if I offended any of you SIT guys, that is not my intention).

[Bumpfoh]

It will take more than just O/T to fix the mess that has been left by MH and created by DC. Maybe he should be replaced and have a totally clean slate to start with.

To get the maint back on track there has to be more managers leaving. D.C would be a good start to show the company is serious about fixing the problem.

A thorough investigation into the current status of QE would definitley throw up these two core findings.:E

We wait with anticipation for implementation of these recommendations!:suspect:

[Toolpants]

Does anyone know where M is going?
Will he be part of the “Qantas Group” somewhere or will he be out the door completely?

Someone told me he is still answering his e-mails?

[Redstone]

'M' will materialise when and where you least expect...... beware the buffoon!

[QF22]

I read on the A330 thread Cox may be gone as well ?

Any info , or just wishful thinking ?

[QF22]

Well i guess this thread is just about dead, not a nibble re D Cox going !

Maybe everyone is more concerned about their share porfolios, or what's left of them ?

Cheers !

[MR WOBBLES]

no brother just counting my backpay , ps payslips are out
thanks ALAEA

[The Mr Fixit]

Yes rumours abound of the departure of the QE head and also others

[Short_Circuit]

Well i guess this thread is just about dead, not a nibble re D Cox going !
We are spending all our spare time praying that it is true. :)

[Ngineer]

I don't know about DC, but I just read a copy of an email the other day about SIT customer contracts and nearly fell over. I heard from a reliable source that the author had been given the flick, but obviously the source was not that reliable.

[Clipped]

Was that the letter from Tony G?

Could someone please rewrite or summarise it in some intelligible form.

The guy is a twit with a hell of a title and hopefully a very short Q career.

[Ngineer]

Yup, I think it basically read that it will only take on contracts of identical types to QF aircraft. To be even more basic, cost management.

[QF94]

Re: TALKWRENCH post 4289
Quote:
If the backlog is so bad on the line
There is no backlog on the line. People from SIT are being sent to the hangars everyday. So that must mean there is an excess of labour at SIT.

There are certain individuals from SIT that work 12 hour shifts at the hangars on most of their days off, but it's not for the moneyhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif (a RH saying comes to mind) but to provide licence coverage for the depleated base maintenance crews.

Just a thought, but if these individuals declined their coverage on certain shifts that have a shortfall, wouldn't it force the company into putting on more courses to give the base LAMEs and AMEs the opportunity of progressing their careers and benifiting financially. Isn't that what you wanted and most AME's want a career pathhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif


relay, maybe you haven't noticed that the PIA is over. LAME's voted for the pay rise and regrades, and the ALAEA and QF Engineering management agreed and kissed and made up.

Now that LAME's want to do O/T, for love or money, is no concern of anyone else. People have bills and mortgages to pay, and with the current downturn in world financial markets, if you haven't noticed, is a fair case of get what you can while you can.

There should be no line between Line Maintenance, Base Maintenance, Domestic or International. If you wear a QANTAS uniform, and we all do, we work for QANTAS, even though we are in different cost centres makes no difference. Guys (and girls) in Base are no more valuable than those on line and vice versa, but for you to even mention that LAME's on line to not do O/T just to help the cause of those in base, is just a tad selfish and self serving. Maybe you're in line for a course to help your career path.

Perhaps you and the guys complaining in base should be putting in for O/T to benefit you financially, then you wouldn't have so many Line guys coming over and scuttling your career advancement whilst waiting for that ever elusive course you so desire.

Wake up and take a look around you. You are part of a bigger picture than base maintenance. There are many guys prepared to do the work you're not prepared to do. Just a fact of life.

[division1]

Was that the letter from Tony G?
The guy is a twit with a hell of a title and hopefully a very short Q career.

Four thousand three hundred odd posts and this turds name pops up.
Destroyer of line maint traditions and co-operation with our customers,
Up to his nuts in the buggery of anyone with a customer payment or
overseas posting, yes, he reeks of $hit.

[employes perspective]

QF94 it's a pity no one had that attitude before H245 was shut down,now look at the mess QF is in

[relay429]

Firstly, I would like to clear up any misunderstandings:

1) I do not work in base maintenance
2) As far a licences are concerned i am not in the pineapple club, however, i have no desire to do another course.
3) Yes i have noticed that the PIA is over but my post had nothing to do with the PIA.
4) I am awake and i do look at the big picture.

My post was intended to point out the lack of licence coverage in base and the pressure the company is putting on guys who hold licences on certain types.

People have bills and mortgages to pay and with the current downturn, if you haven't noticed, is a fair case to get what you can while you can.

If you have overextended yourself so much that you rely on overtime to pay the bills it seems a "tad selfish and self serving" and a little short sighted to have this mercenary approach.

There are many guys prepared to do the work you're not prepared to do.

Plenty of guys in base are prepared to do the work. it is just a question of having the right licence to cover the workload in base. For example, why was an A330 crew recently disbanded for two shifts because there was no licence coverage available on the crew??? Unfortunately your theory on having "no line between Line Maintence, Base Maintenance, Domestic or International" failed on this occasion because of a lack of licences. These licences were already in use elsewhere and could not be spared. This point has been hidden from management in the scramble for people doing overtime outside their ordinary work area. To elaborate on this point, MH though it was ok not to type train anyone because he though the business was running smoothly whereas we were just one step away from the A330 example given above. It seems like you are in agreement with MH:D. Look at where this way of thinking got him!:ok:

qf94: for me, i don't want this to be turned into a slinging match as we are both from engineering and yes, we do wear the same QANTAS uniform. My intention was to highlight the mess that our previous management (MH) has gotten us into.;)

[griffin one]

Air China gone to cathay permanently. way to go M ,TG, NG, word on the street is unless QE gets its act in gear, BA will be employing locally by the end of october.
To the nasayers. PIA is over and if the sio guys and girls didnt come to base maybe they wouldnt have a job as the sio is overstaffed due to inept contractual decisions made by our superiors. As the fedsec said we know have to move forward and grow. for those that want the good old days remember that meant niteshift at the sio doing more than just chk2,s

Glad to pass lake gaunt on the right, On the way to work and on the left on the way home.

[QF94]

QF94 it's a pity no had that attitude before H245 was shut down,now look at the mess QF is in


I had this view prior to the demise of HM in SYD, and am awaiting the demise of Int'l Line Maint with little or no foreign contracts returning. As the posts on this thread have been saying, we are "overstaffed", but not due to our own inefficiencies, but that of our incompetent (more like intentionally destroying) foreign operator contract manager, who looks set to bring down Line Maint.

I hope I'm wrong, and will gladly admit to being wrong.

[hadagutfull]

For :mad: sake GH!!!! You are now in the box seat... over ride the stupid decisions and stop the rot!!! You were the line station/ customer liason man before!! You know what the revenue is worth.... YOU CAN OVER RIDE THEM... YOU ARE THE BOSS NOW!!!

The SIT is not just CHK2's... even with the customer work, they were getting work packages the size of phone books for their day stoppers, plus MEL rectification, plus inbound defect rectification etc....

These guys are happy to see lake gaunt on their left as they drive to work... without a doubt.

But, with all respect to the other departments... better the devil you know!

[blackhander]

Can someone tell me what proportion of backpay was due this pay and whats due in November? (Plain English please).
Pay was a bit lighter than expected

[ampclamp]

seriously, I dont know anyone who has a good grip on exactly what was coming when , but I think the next lot will be the regrade backpay from Jan 2008 until now.Prob a bit less than the first tranche of $$
The letter we got was not exactly clear and the hair splitters and bush lawyers in my workplace had a field day.:hmm:
No doubt one of the "experts" will work it out to the .01 of a dollar but frankly if it is close to what was sent to me in the estimate it'll do.

I have enough trouble working out the freakin' payslip every fortnight!

[The Black Panther]

A reasonable person would have thought the back pay would come with a line by line statement of what makes up he total amount. Instead we will have to jump the hoops through Peopleconnect......"sorry I can't answer that, I will get pay section to call you"..then pay section.

World's best practice.
Voted Best Airline in the world.
Awarded best industrial relationship airline by ....
You know what I mean.

[ampclamp]

BP, you could die of old age waiting for people disconnect to answer a query.
I dont think a line by line explanation is beyond them after all they need to work it out so must know exactly where every dollar comes from and why.
Not holding my breath but just happy its sorted, sort of.;)

[QF22]

Well it had to happen ! 21Jan to 14Oct 2008 and 4327 threads,and I think this one is dead. I see a few new threads popping up to take it's place.
The PIA is over and so is this thread. Well done lads to a long battle and well deserved victory. I hope ?
RIP TO PIA !

[notasheep]

The Wilkinson sword is Out.
I Feel Sorry For A Bloke That Spends So Much Time And Effort
Being So Bitter.
I Think You Have Bitten Off More Than You Can Chew This Time.

[ampclamp]

not a sheep,
for the uninitiated, what and who are you talking about pls?

[QF22]

I think he has been drinking too much of his backpay ? ? ?

[QF94]

not a sheep,
for the uninitiated, what and who are you talking about pls?


Unless you work at SIT you may not know the situation. Not all those at SIT even know the situation. Should be interesting though.

[ampclamp]

still none the wiser!
I'm across some of the syd int issues but not aware of the wilkinson sword reference.
no point in posting the scuttlebutt if the general populace dont get it.:confused:
I just hope the contracts start to come back.

[QF94]

I just hope the contracts start to come back.

JAL back today, and ANZ supposedly soon. Still awaiting the outcome of BA and QF's insistence on just doing the 744 and not the 777.

[One-Shot Insecticide]

notasheep


Wilkinson sword

The Wilkinson sword is Out.
I Feel Sorry For A Bloke That Spends So Much Time And Effort
Being So Bitter.
I Think You Have Bitten Off More Than You Can Chew This Time.


notasheep / NORM-ally it isn't the done thing to try and name names :=, however, you are right about one thing. You are "notasheep"... More like a snake in the grass.

[hadagutfull]

Not in here please gentlemen :=

[ampclamp]

thanks,thats excellent news! at least its a start.
on hol's at present so had not heard.

[opalops]

FYI Philippine Airlines gone to Virgin Atlantic permanently.As of the 15th Dec

[Ngineer]

From what I hear, I dont think many other contracts will be coming back too soon. Whilst most other airlines are trying to get as many contracts back as possible to bring in revenue, as usual QF lack the insight and timing to do this. Mainly because a few think OT and Tail payments makes it un-economical to do so, regardless of what cashflow maybe incoming.
When we were sacking LAME's left right and centre, other airlines were recruiting. And now that we are re-employing, others are freezing the workforce. Sound familiar? I have not seen many business moves that have made much sense from our short sighted management.
On another note, it seems strange that when we were in good economic times, chicken little was clucking that the sky was falling but we went on to make a record profit. Now that the future economic outlook isnt so good, I have heard them say we are well placed to ride out the financial tsunami. Should be interesting times ahead. I think 2009 will be a tuff year for AJ. Maybe GD's exit is perfect timing for him.

[FMU]

JHAS are looking for B747-400/PW4000 LAMEs for the SIT. Don't know the airline they would be handling, but as far as I can recall only United, Air Pacific and SQ operate them into SYD.

[QF22]

United used to have it's own team, and SQ is done by AMSA.
Air Pacific is part owned by QF so surely they will still handle them?
What news of GH has he taken the reins from MH?
Surley GH knows the value of customer contracts?
Oh on the other hand he did give up the SQ contract in 2005 !
Why don't a committe of LAMEs meet GH to discuss?
This is a pretty important issue for ACS guys, a lot of bread n butter involved. If customer work is handled correctly you can make money !
I recall customer work in some ports covered the wages bill for all QF guys, therefore QFs aircraft were covered at no cost.
About time a few Snr LAMEs/DMMs paid GH a visit the gave him a good slap around the face to wake him up !

[QF94]

United used to have it's own team, and SQ is done by AMSA.
Air Pacific is part owned by QF so surely they will still handle them?
What news of GH has he taken the reins from MH?
Surley GH knows the value of customer contracts?
Oh on the other hand he did give up the SQ contract in 2005 !
Why don't a committe of LAMEs meet GH to discuss?
This is a pretty important issue for ACS guys, a lot of bread n butter involved. If customer work is handled correctly you can make money !
I recall customer work in some ports covered the wages bill for all QF guys, therefore QFs aircraft were covered at no cost.
About time a few Snr LAMEs/DMMs paid GH a visit the gave him a good slap around the face to wake him up !


Everyone knows in the former ACS SIT (I say former ACS, due to the title being removed from our vehicles and anything that identifies engineering) that customer contracts were paying for QF's maintenance there, but due to us pesky engineers and our industrial dispute, this was the perfect backdrop for the company to use against us to hand back money making contracts to our longstanding customers so that we could clear a backlog of defects that was building up much earlier than our dispute due to the lack of ground time, parts and labour. The problem lies with the short sightedness of management to see past their next bonus review, as they most probably weren't going to be in the section afterwards, and it would be the next management team's problem.

As for About time a few Snr LAMEs/DMMs paid GH a visit the gave him a good slap around the face to wake him up !
This is a joke as the new faces that will be filling in the DMM positions both in base and SIT have done what it takes to become a DMM, and will continue to do so. This doesn't include standing up to management and slapping them in the face telling to wake up and stop stuffing up. This is a sure-fire way to neutralise further career advancements for them.

Let's hope that the snoozing managers do wake up to see the error of their ways and have balls enough to say we stuffed up, let's see what we can do to fix this. I live in hope!

[Short_Circuit]

The problem with the backlog of work is that we in ACS have backed off to 99% output. Prior to this we were running on 120% which was not sustainable, especially during the PIA. Now that we are over that (some what) we again can ramp up to 100% and the SIO boys can go back to making money for the company.
We have lost a lot of experienced LAME's & AME's and will suffer for many years to come, however, with some guarantee of training and removal of those who want to kill the LAME progression, we will once again rise to the the call.
QE will never attract AME's until a guarantee of training and progression is assured.

[Clipped]

I think 2009 will be a tuff year for AJ. Maybe GD's exit is perfect timing for him.

As I've posted elsewhere - Kevin B is leaving Q early 2009. Another wasteful attempt of management. Good riddance.

FOG FOK

[Bootstrap1]

In regards to JHAS looking for 744/PW LAMEs it is too do Air Pac. Apparently AMSA was audited by Air Pac and it wasn't up too scratch

[QF22]

The PIA is over and you guys had a win, and it was great to see the ALAEA and LAMEs working together for a just cause.
I am not saying you go down that path again, and you probably can't anyway.
My point is why can't a few of the 'old heads' ie very Snr LAMEs and the ALAEA get together and have a meeting with GH. He has been doing customer contracts for years, he knows what they are worth.
He may be the boss now, but most will remember him as a snot nosed snork !
He has made it to the top, but how long will he stay there? If he can't make this dis-functional Line Maint operation work he will be gone ! ! !
Apply some pressure, you must still have lots of multi-licensed LAMEs who can do customer work. Maybe bring back the old pier 'C' concept (now I am showing my age).
A properly structured and managed customer group will make money !
Give GH a dig and see if he is willing to listen and make things right !
If not, see him off like MH ! GH has to eat and live like the rest of us, he needs his job. His choice, work together for the betterment of us all, or work against us and his life at QF could be very hard, and short lived !

[another superlame]

Just to add a snippet about QF not wanting to do other operators a/c that QF doesn't fly,ie BA 777, I heard some juicy gossip that a merger between QF and BA has been given the thumbs up by the government regulators. So if QF/BA is one then surely they will service anything BA flies to our sunny shores.

Just thinking out aloud

[hi-speed tape]

Nah ! QF management would more likely retrench all its own engineers, then ask BA if it could import some Poms to fix QF aircraft !!

[comrade10]

Clipped
100% agreed, we need to rid qantas of these "union hating" so called industrial relations expertss. if their claim to fame is that they can sleep at night believing they can get one over the unions and its leaders at qantas than they need to move on and get a life! good ridence GD and KB....

[FMU]

Interesting reading was the court transcript of the ALAEA v Qantas illegal wage dockings during the PIA. Especially at page 36, PN259.

“THE COMMISSIONER: Sorry the question is - just answer the question, your counsel will clean up after you, we’ll be here all day if we just don’t answer the question. The question was did you make any investigation to see if there was any alternative arrangements, if the answer is no, just say no?---No.”

Sounds like the Commissioner wasn’t at all happy with the way SIO mgr DM was answering the questions.

DM is another one who should be following MH out the gate!

[Bumpfoh]

Considering his background you would've thought that he would know better than to pee off the commish.

Then again perhaps HE thought HE did know better than the commish and it backfired on him big time, seems like he knows as much about the dealings with the IRC as he does aircraft maintenance! :E

He is a FULL TOSSER!:ok:

P.S this get's it back on the front page!:D

[BrissySparkyCoit]

Interesting reading was the court transcript of the ALAEA v Qantas

Anyone got a link?

[Jethro Gibbs]

which union is going door to door trying to get members at avalon ?

[rudderless1]

See the union notice mailed to all members. 356kb of plain text. It takes a while to read.:ok::ouch:

[Ngineer]

Interesting reading was the court transcript of the ALAEA v Qantas

Interesting, yet disturbing. It led me to ask why was an IR employee ever promoted to managing an Engineering dept. The obvious answers are both despicable and low.

[QF22]

G'day lads, howz it all going at ACS? M is gone, has G taken the reins and brought back all the contracts?

[Short_Circuit]

All is not so well at Pity City.

"We wish to advise that you have been unsuccessful in your application ".:mad:

[QF22]

Sorry Short Circuit you lost me there?
You were unsuccessful?(trust me I have lots of those letters too)
Surely the new boss has made some positive changes by now?
If not I think things are looking grim for all, including himself !

[Clipped]

G'day lads, howz it all going at ACS?

It's Line Maintenance Operations, not ACS. That is where the good news begins .. and ends.

So far, little has changed.

Management dodging any serious questioning, that way they don't have to lie to you in the face. Bridging relations? No chance.

[QF22]

Sorry I stand corrected, never did like ACS anyway.
At least you have a title that can be identified with now.
I hope there is more positive developments soon !

[Ngineer]

ACS? How can you be named "Aircraft Customer Services" without having any customers? Oh, sorry I forgot. Qantas is a customer of course!:rolleyes:

[Clipped]

GH today announced his 'new' line up.

Same flies around the same dung.

A great opportunity to realign on the right direction, however, wasted with the usual suspects having even bigger portfolios.

What a shame, but unsurprising.

[hadagutfull]

I agree clipped
a complete disappointment.... to say the least.
Why do they persist with the same "team" that were the instigators of this disaster we are now in.....?? :ugh: :ugh:
How do they justify so many levels of management.... :mad:
GH....... disappointed old mate.
..........................................next batter up............

[Ngineer]

a complete disappointment.... to say the least.


My hopeful optimism was very short lived. The same inexperienced guys making the same bad calls, whilst feeding the low morale on the floor. Maybe Lyell Strambi will be our last hope.

By the way, I thought the SIT boys were supposed to be getting back a few contracts in exchange for allowing some extra casual workers. What's going on there?

[employes perspective]

just wondering,QF have contacted me as an EX HM LAME for the casual postions,are they paying 100k for 6 months as before,or is it a new deal.

[thosecotos]

just wondering,QF have contacted me as an EX HM LAME for the casual postions,are they paying 100k for 6 months as before,or is it a new deal.


Very good question! Ought to be at least that given what's (apparently) at stake in terms of airworthiness.

Not to mention a bit of extra money for sufferance, because no matter what you'll be labelled a sc*b anyway... not for strikebreaking but for taking someones overtime, or their training, or keeping a AME out of being a LAME, or just because! :rolleyes:

[Short_Circuit]

just wondering,QF have contacted me as an EX HM LAME for the casual positions,are they paying 100k for 6 months as before

Keep dreaming!

[QF94]

My hopeful optimism was very short lived. The same inexperienced guys making the same bad calls, whilst feeding the low morale on the floor. Maybe Lyell Strambi will be our last hope.

By the way, I thought the SIT boys were supposed to be getting back a few contracts in exchange for allowing some extra casual workers. What's going on there?

The only contract that has returned is JAL. QF is still quibbling with BA about only doing the 747's and not the 777's. Silly really, as BA will still have to keep guys here to sign the 777. Even sillier, is that QF is still paying our guys the 777 payment until the contract is formally terminated. That goes the same for the Air New Zealand A320's. Guys are still getting their payments, but QF won't take back the contracts.

OJK is still down in Manila because Philippines don't have a hangar for the aircraft to be repaired. This is in response to QF's desire to not want to take back the certification of the PR A330's. Way to go guys. We have a couple aircraft down (OJK Manila, QPA SYD) and our overly edumacated management can't see the impending wreck happening before them. But all is OK as we have the new pride of the fleet and saviour of the company, OQA to save the day.

And to top it all off, a couple of new layers of management have been added for whatever reason. Maybe we should label QF engineering Sara Lee. Layer upon layer upon layer. Maybe it is felt that the ineptitude of our previous/current management (not much difference really) can be hidden by all the layers of puffy cream with the strawberry on top.

How far can this madness go? Are the lunatics really running the assylum?

[employes perspective]

THOSECOTOS would that be the same people that did nothing to help us fellow LAME's in 06 that were shown the door

[Ngineer]

The only contract that has returned is JAL. QF is still quibbling with BA about only doing the 747's and not the 777's. Silly really, as BA will still have to keep guys here to sign the 777. Even sillier, is that QF is still paying our guys the 777 payment until the contract is formally terminated.

Are you for real? What a joke, and a waste of good money/revenue. Are these guys blind? We should not be taking on any casuals if indeed this is the case (I thought it was a mutual agreement).

But all is OK as we have the new pride of the fleet and saviour of the company, OQA to save the day.


And if anyone had any sense, the A380 crews could be earning us extra $$$ by taking on the SIA A380 contract instead of sitting on their a$$es waiting for ours to get built. I am sure there would be a bit of work on it while it stops here in SYD, a prime opportunity to get it done and rack up a bit of experience for the guys.

[thosecotos]

THOSECOTOS would that be the same people that did nothing to help us fellow LAME's in 06 that were shown the door

Yeah unfortunately that's them. Same guys you've been sticking up for in this and other threads... the same one's who waved you goodbye whilst thanking their collective stars when you were punted.

[QF94]

And if anyone had any sense, the A380 crews could be earning us extra $$$ by taking on the SIA A380 contract instead of sitting on their a$$es waiting for ours to get built. I am sure there would be a bit of work on it while it stops here in SYD, a prime opportunity to get it done and rack up a bit of experience for the guys.

That won't be happening either. SIA don't want a bar of QF after QF gave them the boot a couple of years ago. Since QF handed all the contracts back to the customers, and helped build our competition's businesses, AMSA not only do SIA, but Malaysian and a couple of the other operators that we used to do.

I am led to believe by the guys that work for SIA engineering in SYD that SIA have instructed both their engineers and aircraft security to stop any QF personnel approaching the aircraft or trying to get aboard. This is how much poison QF has injected into what were prime customers paying for QF aircraft at S.I.T.

And to top that off, the QF Team A380 crews have enough on their own plate with the beginnings of infighting amongst themselves and with the management.

Aaaaahhhh. Just another day in the sunny paradise of QF.

[QF22]

And Guess Who Your New Boss Is ! The One Who Lost The SIA Contract In The First Place !
Good Luck Guys You're Gonna Need It !

[ampclamp]

Is the next lot of backpay due this pay? If not, when pls refresh my memory.

[1746]

Is the next lot of backpay due this pay? If not, when pls refresh my memory.

Yes it is. Enjoy:D

[Clipped]

And to top it all off, a couple of new layers of management have been added for whatever reason.

Why. Because GH knows his #ss is on the line, when we spiral into the abyss. Therefore, create fall guys - KM and DM. Management 101, save thyself.

[lamem]

And then they give QLD to MT. Let the paybacks begin. The guys in QLD tell me there will be a buggery campaign soon but not from the engineers. The manager, by his very style of management and history of pay backs and harassment, will force a buggery fight by all concerned. The dispute is far from over in QLD in fact it seems to be worse than during the PIA. The word from MTS is QLD work is backing up and being forced onto other ports. At least his budget looks good. I wonder how long the other managers will allow that to go on. :ugh:

[QF22]

Multiple layers of management didn't save M, ultimately the buck stops with G, and he knows it.
I think he has made a big mistake not re-engaging the workforce.
As for MT the lads will sort him out !

[Syd eng]

Anything about Sydney Base being part of DH's heavy set up? Or have they changed that too?

[Short_Circuit]

There is a task force of Lufthansa Technics guys invading SYD Base at the moment.
H245 is cleaned out and ready to occupy. Looks like the end of Aus Base Maint? :yuk:

[The masked goatrider]

H245 is the Jetstar hangar.

Mel Line Manager on last warning.

All contracts dumped during pia about to return in a stepped approach over next 3 months.

Union have a Qantas based media blackout atm and this will remain in place whilst positive moves are taking place behind the scenes (such as the removal of M).

Union sitting on a mountain of incriminating evidence against CASA, 4 Corners preparing to do story.

[Short_Circuit]

Sounds like interesting times are afoot! :ooh:

[another superlame]

Any news on the employment front for base maint. On one hand they need bodies but they are dragging their feet employing or even interveiwing

[ampclamp]

Ah ha, the goat rider strikes again with some juicy stuff!
does sound very interesting.

I do think some people are being premature in judging GH already whether you have history with him or not.
It takes time to do anything at qantas even simple garden variety stuff.
Turning around an entire division will take years.

All the extra management types does make you wonder though.
Maybe there will be more changes than we bargained for and those guys will be needed...
but it does smack of padding ones backside with multiple layers of lower order scapegoats.
Anyway my mind remains open, nothing to gained by being negative all the time.
Of to a good start with m and kb going, not to mention the BACKPAY, there you go I mentioned it:).Thanks to SP and the crew!
Makes a nice diff to the pay packet guys, much appreciated.

[hi-speed tape]

Info item for anyone away from work.
official email notice - ANZ 767 & 747 work to return to SIT as of 19 Nov 08.
Word on the floor - Malaysian have pulled the pin on us, but Thai will return as of Feb 09.

[QF22]

I believe MAS will be handled by AMSA.

[Short_Circuit]

So, what is the latest with the buggery campaign against LAMEs.

All is toooooo quiet. :confused:

[Ngineer]

So, what is the latest with the buggery campaign against LAMEs.


I think the DMM positions have upset alot of people. What should have been a no-brainer was turned into a complete shamozzle by upper management. Many very experienced and competant leaders were snubbed. Whether this is a buggery campaign or just pure stupidity is lost to me. Either way, this madness will hopefully go when they have finished grooming TD to be the next DM.

Unfortunately when inexperienced people rise to a place of power and responsibilty, they sometimes get people offside trying to demand respect by being over-powering or demanding due to their lack of self-confidence. I hope we do not have to bear the brunt of this.

[hadagutfull]

Whilst I congratulate those who applied for the positions and were successful, I believe the interview process is still very flawed... there is no taking into account the persons years of service, experience, operational performance, sickies and attendance and ability to manage manpower either on a person to person level or as someone in charge of a team.

Same can be said for the A380 selection process....

It seems if you can talk the "official" talk, quote some of the management business philosophies and show that you are a true believer in the over cooked safety beliefs... you are an ideal candidate for any position.

There are so many excellent LAMES out there that put in a brilliant effort every day that deserve training without this interview and application crap... let their reputation and performance speak for themselves, and let them see their efforts are seen and appreciated.

Perhaps Mr Fedsec might discuss this with the new management team at the next meeting.

[ampclamp]

mate I could not agree more.The targeted selection process is crap.
If you can spin a good yarn quote PPM etc you may well get a run.
Some selections using this process are spot on others are unbelieveable.
A good shyster can beat the system hands down.

One thing is sure you do not need this crappy process to select a suitable candidate.having worked there most of their working lives those who want and deserve the job should be well and truly obvious.Even outsiders come with a record being known in the industry.Its hard to hide being a shonk no matter where you've been.Its a small world.

PS.No sour grapes here.No applications made.happy being a pawn.:cool:

[QF94]

Whilst I congratulate those who applied for the positions and were successful, I believe the interview process is still very flawed... there is no taking into account the persons years of service, experience, operational performance, sickies and attendance and ability to manage manpower either on a person to person level or as someone in charge of a team.

Same can be said for the A380 selection process....

Unfortunately, the 'merits' do not apply to choosing and 'ideal' candidate for the job that will be managing people and steering the engineering section in the direction the upper management wants. Unless you are a YES man with a CAN DO at any cost attitude, the selection process has always been and always will be for the chosen few, with maybe a token position filled by an 'outsider' who won't get too much in the way.

It seems if you can talk the "official" talk, quote some of the management business philosophies and show that you are a true believer in the over cooked safety beliefs... you are an ideal candidate for any position.

Refer to my comments above. Sing the tune management wants to hear, and you'll go places.

There are so many excellent LAMES out there that put in a brilliant effort every day that deserve training without this interview and application crap... let their reputation and performance speak for themselves, and let them see their efforts are seen and appreciated.

Do you believe for one minute that the excellent LAME's will be promoted off the floor to manage. There wouldn't be anyone left to run the show and actually keep the aircraft in the air. Think of the consequences if all the good LAME's were in management. Besides, it has been proven that you don't need experience or putting in a brilliant effort to become any level of management. Just ask DM, Manager NSW/ACT line stations. An Arts degree and no interest in aircraft lands you a plum job.

Us LAME's should just sit back and enjoy the ride, because the first ones to fall will be the decision makers, as we have too many of them and not enough LAME's/AME's to do the work.

Perhaps Mr Fedsec might discuss this with the new management team at the next meeting.

Yeah and Geoff Dixon will hand back his $12M dollars and Management will work for only their salary and no bonuses.

[Ngineer]

Besides, it has been proven that you don't need experience or putting in a brilliant effort to become any level of management. Just ask DM, Manager NSW/ACT line stations. An Arts degree and no interest in aircraft lands you a plum job.


I think he landed this position due to his experience in employee relations/industrial relations. True GD style, buggary all the way. We all saw this with the very distasteful harrassing/interview processes that was enjoyed during and after the PIA. This will never be forgotten.

With the poor press that we have had of late GD has finally got what he wanted, that is "just an airline".:E

Do you believe for one minute that the excellent LAME's will be promoted off the floor to manage. There wouldn't be anyone left to run the show and actually keep the aircraft in the air. Think of the consequences if all the good LAME's were in management.

QF94 good thinking, what a good manager you would make. However after watching the A380 team fiasco, and the valuable licence's and manpower that was robbed from various sections to create this team, I just cannot buy your idea.

[hadagutfull]

Mate I agree with your post, except that my reference to the many excellent LAMES who put in great effort.....etc, for them its the type training, not management training, that they deserve without all the crap involved with it these days.

The old system of the training school telling the manager "we got 6 slots on 744 course, gimme some names" was generally fair. If you did a good job and had a good reputation, you would be rewarded.

That system was being abused by some managers not so long ago and used as a carrot to dangle for certain people.

Most of us would love to pick up another rating, sit back, and watch the constant revolving management door.

[thosecotos]

We all saw this with the very distasteful harrassing/interview processes that was enjoyed during and after the PIA. This will never be forgotten

Not forgotten? So what, do you think they care? Shaking in their boots for sure. I thought the union was spruiking rebuilding of bridges? The PIA finished 5 minutes ago in relative terms, the place needs the wheel reinvented and you guys are already throwing knives

Most of us would love to pick up another rating, sit back....

Freudian slip? Picking up ratings then sitting back... yep, seen plenty of that before :ok:

[hadagutfull]

Oops... that didnt come out right!!

how about... sit back with the extra rating and diligently do our jobs as we always do...:ok:

[Ngineer]

Not forgotten? So what, do you think they care? Shaking in their boots for sure. I thought the union was spruiking rebuilding of bridges? The PIA finished 5 minutes ago in relative terms, the place needs the wheel reinvented and you guys are already throwing knives



I think you may have lost touch with the workforce mate. Have you been on LSL the last few years?

[the rim]

unfortunally i have seen it all before ....and now all you need is the can do approach and you will get what you want ....but the "can do" approach is only achieved at someone else's expence...look at line stations now they all are bidding against each other for the position what hope do the rest of us have....Gavin take hold of it before its too late so you have the right people in the right positions NOW

[QF22]

I think GH has had his hands on it for years, that's the problem !

[another superlame]

A few of the comments are about the lack of good LAMEs etc, well they have advertised and I and a few other ex HM LAMEs have applied to come back but they are dragging the chain in doing so.

You would think it is an open and shut case, as we have ratings on QF aircraft,most of us were QF snorks we know our way around the Jet Base and the red tape that comes with it.

If the rumours are true that they made a mistake in shutting down Syd HM and getting rid of all that experience why is it taking so long to make the wrongs right.

The PIA is over the EBA is signed and QF are still in the news for the wrong reasons far too often. They can't use the PIA as an excuse any longer for what makes the news. Could someone please take their balls out of their wives handbags and make a decision.

If it drags on for too much longer they will need to do another world trip to recruit LAMEs, ie South Africa,Hong Kong, Ireland, South America. Last time they did this it was a total sh1t fight for all involved. But then QF managers can ony remember as far back as their last bonus.

[another superlame]

Can someone post or email me current LAME rates of pay for levels 4,5 and 6 please.
I have been unable to get them anywhere. Just doing my homework in case I get offered the Casual LAME spot.
Thanks

[Ngineer]

Does anyone know if the casual LAME spots are still going ahead? Considering there are alot of LAME's willing to work O/T but not being asked why is this still happening? Is this part of the comany's ploy of zero overtime, or to combat the next round of EBA negotiations.

Also, are the rumors true that there are LAME's who will be taking on the new AME positions being filled. If so, how can this be? How can a LAME be paid as an AME? I thought we had been through this all before, or is this a case of bringing in "definition of a LAME" by stealth.

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

ngineer i take it you are a good Unionist,if so positions should always be filled with new people rather than O/T,if you can't live without O/t you should get out of the industry:ok:

[Ngineer]

if so positions should always be filled with new people rather than O/T

Exactly, so employ more permanents not casuals. The quotas were put in place for good reason. This is not healthy for our workforce!

if you can't live without O/t you should get out of the industryhttp://static.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

I cannot understand this issue of why people work OT (whether because they need to or want to, and I suspect it is probably the latter) that you have raised. It is pointless to my arguement. Whatever the reason is, I am glad that there are still alot of people that do.

[another superlame]

I think the casual approach is too get around the employment freeze.
Casual might end up being permanent in the future

[numbskull]

Casual positions are still moving forward. Aparently prospective applicants will hear something before xmas with a start date sometime in late Jan.

60 hr max per fortnight. 3 x 12 hr days one week, 2 x 12 hr Early nights the next. No day shift penalties, 25% loading for casual rates, no sick/annual leave etc. No weekends, No overtime -only at normal casual rates IF there is any ( ie not double time).

LAME Base Rates as of 1/1/2009 per week

Gr 4 - $1185 ($31.18 p/hr)
Gr 5 - $1267 ($33.42 p/hr)
Gr 6 - $1350 ($35.52 p/hr)
Gr 7 - $1433 ($37.71 p/hr)
Gr 8 - $1515 ($39.86 p/hr)

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

at those rates they are better off going to South Africa again,Sinapore and Malayasian pay better than that,who are these numbskulls kidding besides themselves

[Ngineer]

at those rates they are better off going to South Africa again,Sinapore and Malayasian pay better than that

With the current exchange rate you could make a killing over there at the moment. (if paid in $US).

[Clipped]

One of the guys at work asked a very interesting question yesterday - "Where is MH"?

A quick check on the Q directory still shows he is 'current'. He even still appears, with title, on the ACS Leadership structure.

A couple of guys rumoured he was o/s, on a better exchange rate, working with or setting up a MRO. Is there a sinister motive?

Anyone else out there know any more of our ex-esteemed leader?

[QF22]

Who cares about MH, what is GH doing, any constructive?

[Ngineer]

Just alot of talk it seems. The fact that DC is still here shows that nothing has changed. I guess MH was the fallguy, with business as usual. Heard the same rumors about MH in Malaysia, though find it hard to believe.

I have heard AJ on radio drumming out the usual "we always put safety first" claptrap that previous management did. At our level though, its more like Affordable Safety.

[QF22]

I guess all is well at QE?
Managers at the coal face?
Wallets bulging after payrise?
New AMEs employed?
No new posts so everybody happy?

[another superlame]

QF22 are they new AMEs employed or just redeployed from other sections?

[QF22]

Don't ask me, I was asking the question, hence the ? after each sentence !
Just trying to CPR a dead thread, and at the same time get an update from the coalface.
Cheers !

[YOSHI]

So far no new AMEs have been seen at the coal face. It may not happen until the AME EBA is sorted out. As far as I have heard their offer is similar to the LAME's. This may help when it comes to attracting new blood to QE.
No managers at the coal face yet, well not that I have seen!
Wallets are not bulging, most are just glade we can pay our bills.
New ops managers are starting to make their precence felt, not always in a good way, but they are trying to improve things for us.

All is not well at QE, at times there is a shortage of licence coverage, but still no training. O/T is beeing rostered into the pattern and some of the guys who 'retired' recently may be comming back on a part time basis to make up the numbers in Servicing.

What is glaringly obvious is the fact that there does not seem to be any real plan for the future, just a series of 'stop gap' measures.

I hope this changes sooner rather than later, for the good of QE and those who have given their time and effort (both in the past and the present) to keep it going up to now.

I think that covers the questions from QF22, well from where I stand anyway.............

[Ngineer]

What is glaringly obvious is the fact that there does not seem to be any real plan for the future

I think that a significant capital injection is required to fix a few things, ie more man-hours, training, apprenticeships. However I don't think that QF are happy to fork this out at the moment, especially with the uncertain economic outlook.

[another superlame]

Ngineer I understand that they might nit want to spend money right now but realistically they need to because apprentice schemes and other training programs take time to happen.

As Rachael Hunter once said "It wont heppen overnight, but it will heppen"

[Ngineer]

I totally agree mate.

[QF22]

Thanx Yoshi,Ng,ASL for the update its good to hear whats going on, but sad to know the place is still rudderless.
A Merry Xmas to all at QE and hopefully a happier 2009 ? !
Cheers

[Ngineer]

Merry Christmas.

PS, I think this thread may survive the next EBA round.

[domo]

seen at the tech school today two candidates for the casual positions, The instructors were interviewing them did not know the candidates,

[YOSHI]

As Ngineer says, money needs to be spent to provide for the airlines future. Outsourcing does not seem to have any long term advantage as it exposes a company to the vagaries of the market. Just look at the BF Goodrich contract!! It seems that other airlines have 'seen the light' in this respect and are starting to bring some of their work back 'in house'.
Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

Makes you wonder if the discussions with BA will create some new way of thinking within QE.

I must check out the scene in Europe to see what is going on over there!!!!!!!!!!!

Will let you know if I find anything of interest............

Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year to ALL!!!!!!!!!

[hadagutfull]

As far as QF not having the money to throw around to improve infrastructure, dont forget they forked out 100 million plus for the freight cartel scandal, 12 million for GD's last year in the seat, god knows how much in other executive bonuses, the damage bill for the OJK oxy bottle, the incident with OJM and OJK in Avalon, the millions spent with DuPont and the safety stuff, millions spent with "lean sigma", millions spent fighting us in the PIA, millions spent employing an alternative workforce, millions to Telstra to provide us with a world class IT service, millions spent on that EQ thing, the millions paid to close HM in SYD and the subsequent product failures of some of the A/c returning on line.......... ETC ETC ETC.

So, dont be surprised if piggy bank is empty to get a few more AMES to boost our depleted workforce, or cover a few type courses because to do that would mean the possibility of an extra grade for some and we cant have that.... or the tail payment of approx 130 bucks/week for the other operators who make us money... god forbid!! That would not be in the spirit of cost containment.

We, on the coal face, need to lead by example. Tighten our belts, drive costs down, become more efficient and smarter in what we do and how we do it..... make sure the business case for a new IDG lifter or a few witches hats is second to none and in 12 months when they review it , it just might get a tick!!

I actually believe the company this time when they say things are a bit tight....

Ahhhh... I love the smell of sarcasm in the morning....

Rant over.... :ugh:

Best wishes and a Merry Christmas to all. :ok:

[Ngineer]

Not to mention the $$$$ spent on MJ's farewell at Melbourne Crown, and GD's farewell.

As for heavy maint shutdown, we needed to vacate these premises by 2009. Why? Who knows.............. It still sits there mostly un-used, with rumors of them trying to kick-start a third party budget MRO.

http://www.aviationnews.com.au/Past_Issues/2006Archives/0602_PDFs/P17(0206).pdf

[Nepotisim]

Happy news today. Best news post PIA. Human Refuse people manager with no Style has moved on. Much cheering in Syd.

[QF22]

If it's the jackbooted style one I am thinking of good riddens to bad rubbish !

[ampclamp]

If its the one I'm thinking of and perhaps the one you are alluding to.
yeehaa!!
He made my life particularly miserable during the dispute and would like to offer him some sex and travel advice.

[Clipped]

Also, congrats to the ALAEA and Tamworth LAMEs on reaching an IPA.

Is there a more humane (and sensible) approach being pursued by QE management with it's coalface?

How timely.

[SpannerTwister]

CNN.com (http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/09/news/economy/no_layoffs/index.htm?postversion=2008121111)

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- In the midst of a recession, job cut announcements have become a daily occurrence. But some employers have promised no pink slips, and are sticking to it.........

But even as the number of unemployed grows, some companies say their workers have nothing to fear. "I have never in my 13 years [at the company] felt that my job is in jeopardy due to the economy," said Jill Kronman, a flight attendant for Southwest Airlines (LUV (http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=LUV&source=story_quote_link), Fortune 500 (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2008/snapshots/2068.html?source=story_f500_link)).That's because Southwest is committed to avoiding layoffs at all costs - and they're not alone................


SpannerTwister

[Ngineer]

Re Happy news today.

A positive step in the right direction. Keeping people who have caused so much damage in the past is like trying to live with an ex-wife.

Now if only we could find some managers who are familiar/experienced with airworthiness requirements, local area procedures, etc...


PS, Anything positive from the meeting between LAMEs and the Manager of Engineering in Sydney the other week?

[QF22]

Has Qantas Engineering started doing customer contracts again?
If not, why not ?

[Clipped]

Mostly NOT.

Why?

Firstly avoid those nasty customer payments, in the future.

Secondly, in my opinion, to bring in the new players on the tarmac, to dilute our effectiveness in the future so they are never again exposed as with the recent PIA.

Of course management will counter with a number of more 'valid' reasons - ALL lies.

[QF22]

Thanx clipped ! Sounds like the buggery campaign is alive and well !
Happy New Year to all !
Cheers !

[QF22]

Just out of interest due my limited experience, can anyone comment from other parts of the world, re airlines who refuse to take up customer contracts?
Places I have worked in the past and present snap up customer work as it pays the bills and is money in pocket.
Would be interested to know other operations who knock back customer work,and reasons why?
Thanx in advance.

[chksatis]

Yes QF22 most airlines do take up customer work at the first opportunity, Cathay and British Airways are prime examples, of doing there own aeroplanes in ports they fly, then supplement the expenses of self manning stations by doing customer work, thus allowing them to keep there own quality control of doing there own aeroplanes at effectively no expense to the company. British Airways even have a dedicated customer operation at LHR which is based out of terminal 3 i believe and those guys don't even go near British Airways aeroplanes..... anyone else feel free to comment.

[QF22]

Thx chksatis.
SIA also has a dedicated customer group which handles all customers in S'pore.
It seems VERY odd that QF used to handle the majority of customers in Oz, and now their new boss, who used to handle those contracts, doesn't want to do any !????
In some ports QF aircraft were basically done at no cost to QF, because the revenue from customer work paid all the bills !
So how is the new boss going? It would seem not too well if he can't even get back the customer work that he used to control?
I am sure there is a hidden agenda, but buggered if I know what it is !
Maybe he is just a puppet on a string for DC, or just doesn't have a clue?

[another superlame]

Well Jetstar Int is a customer. But that is scraping the bottom of the barrel

[QF22]

Thanx ASL.
I cannot fathom how a supposedly competant management, can cancel contracts due to industrial action (primarily brought on by themselves).
Then when the PIA is finished months ago, fail to honour those contracts, and reap the revenue from them.
Did QF have to pay penalties to the customers for not fullfilling contractual obligations?
Are the tail payments still being paid, or have they been cancelled?
Surely the revenue would exceed the tail payments?
Is this mismanagement deliberate, or incompetant?

[hadagutfull]

From what I understand, the customers have been given a "phased" timetable on when they will be planned to return (if they have not already got the sh**s and moved on). The tail payments will still be paid and have been paid all this time because the contracts have not been cancelled. The ones who have officially cancelled the contract, that attract a tail payment, will have the tail payment removed.

Looking at whats left to come back, I dont think SIT has the ability to handle some of the exotics that fly the 777/A340/A320 anymore. A lot of people have gone to the 380 and MCC and taken a lot of licence coverage with them.

There would need to be a huge investment in training to adequately cover this, which I dont see happening. The only training I would speculate is on the 330, primarily to cover the Jetstar ops.

The last lot of management really dropped the ball on this one and it has opened the door to the other smaller players to muscle in.

CEG groups work very well for other airlines who usually use their minimum skilled workforce to handle clients. The cream is in the ground equipment hire, non routine work, off sched flights, towing, pumping up a few tyres etc. If the contract includes certification, the dollars are a fair bit more.

At Qantas stations, in a CEG context, we are very inefficient and make no where near what we should. As a provider of maintenance and quality work, we are amongst the worlds best.

If management would only get the balance right and invest in the CEG side of things (not to forget the red tail side as well) it would be a very profitable outcome. :ok:

[chksatis]

Yes i agree HAGF!!!

You are right there, the SIT and BIT with all the redundancies and people movements over the last couple of years has left us prob a bit short to take all the customer work back anyway, once the A380 crew is dispersed and the SIT start handling the A380 thats prob going to put even more pressure on manpower and i would say they will prob never employ at the SIT for at least the next 5 years.

The way the CEG contracts were managed, were inefficient to say the least (especially at the SIT), probably there needs to be a project team set up to try and effectively run them better, but that would need to be done by people on the floor rather than management. BIT is a problem as there station was effectively run by CEG contracts as they only have 5-6 QF flights a day, so what is going to happen there....who knows.

But there are still some contracts heading back and i'm sure once things return to normal we will start seeing some of the others returning, it's a new year and will bring so new suprises i'm sure.

[lordofthewings]

chksatis , funny you saying that there needs to be a project team put together to get customer work back..Sorry i find that fu..ing funny, this is the reason QF is where it is now..committees for everything..:ugh:

[QF22]

Thx guys it's interesting to hear whats going on.
The question begs, why is it taking so long, and is it deliberate mis-management, or incompetance?
Yes Happy New Year to all. Hopefully things will improve for us all in 2009.
Time will tell.
Cheers

[Ngineer]

is it deliberate mis-management, or incompetance

QF22, I would think it is both.

This seems obvious to those watching on. I have also heard, though not sure if is true, that the SIT is slowly being modelled on the SDT in order to cater for core aircraft only. (ie, Qantas & Jetstar), with token customer work likely to be ditched in the future - except for jetstar (if you could consider Jetstar - part of the Qantas group - as a "Customer", personally I do not and refuse to speak this utter crap) and lots of single man lines. I guess when SNR LAME and Supervisor positions come up in the future we will all see.

In the meantime we will continue to loose millions in revenue in order to save a few bucks, but whats new? As long as we have inexperienced people running the joint it will continue. It should be a bl*#dy no-brainer. Pay me 1/4 of their wages and I bet I could make 3 times as much money!

Enough said.

And yes, other operators across Europe are trying to snag as much customer work as possible. Just ask them. They went through this years ago.

[ampclamp]

qantas were so far behind in their maint it was getting very serious.Still behind and if the work schedules are anything to go by that'd be right.Lucky flying has stalled to some extent.
I think casa may have had an indirect hand in the contract work restart as the maint backlog was such, that, extra work may not have been possible (or wise in the eyes of the regulator) over and above what was called up on qantas A/C.
Hold items seem to have decreased as does the flow (flood ) of ATP's to keep things afloat so that seems to be getting better.

It should never have got to that stage of course and a number of those responsible for running an ill advised/planned counter to the ALAEA campaign have decided to seek other goals.
So yes incompetence to start with and maybe some now, but I do know they are under pressure to get the fleet serviceable. The mess left by some of the former masters will take some time to clean up.

Adding to the already top heavy supervisory structure prob wasnt the best move GH has made but getting some tech folks in supervisory roles was a good move.Just needs a bit of thinning out now.Depending on where you work I think there maybe 9 to 11 layers from AME to A Joyce.Could be wrong there but its a jungle of supervision.
Coming from geoffstar he must scratch his head wondering WTF they really do, and, do we really need them to do whatever that is???
I know I do.

[QF22]

Thanx to all you guys for feedback and insight.
The ALAEA PIA thread is probably a bit dated ,and we probably need a new thread to see in the New Year, and developments at QF Eng.
If I new how, I would create it, maybe I should try.
Customer contracts is only one aspect of post PIA QF engineering.
I would be happy to get feedback from any ports, having worked in a few, on any subject, as I still have an interest in my old job.
Here's hoping QF Eng will get back on track in 2009?
Cheers !

[Ngineer]

No probs.

Maybe this thread will be rebirthed as EBA9. It seems pretty obvious to all that EBA8 was not only about 3%, and bearing this in mind, EBA9 will probably run along very similar lines, if not maybe worse. At the end of the day what has changed? Just a few faces in management...........

[QF22]

I saw a small article in the Financial Review which said the AMEs got 6% wage increase.
Did they go thru as much drama as the ALAEA?
Cheers

[domo]

Qf22 dont believe all what you read, I believe we got a good deal that enabled the ames to reach a good result quickly.

[QF22]

G'day Domo
I am pleased to hear you guys got a good, quick, painless deal.
That's why I originally posted, I would like to know the details, AFR had no detail at all.
Just wondering why ALAEA PIA was so long and protracted and AMWU deal went thru quickly?
Brgds to all.
QF22

[Short_Circuit]

Just wondering why ALAEA PIA was so long and protracted
Because Dixon & Co wanted to beat the LAMEs at any cost (hundreds of million of dollars in fact) but with only a few 4 hour
stop work meetings and no overtime all management got was years of backlog work which will be a burden to Qantas for many years to come.

The outcome was that LAMEs proved their worth, diligence and highlighted the incompetence of the managers running the place.

Win - win for LAMEs

Loose - loose for management.

[SpannerTwister]

What was the big two-day managers meeting in SYD all about ??


SpannerTwister

[Ngineer]

Not sure, but rumors are circulating that there has been another case of a different person falsely signing as a LAME.

[employes perspective]

wouldn't it of been one of those managers through the dispute:}

[the rim]

but we had our manger check and sight our CASA licence to make sure we all were legal..mmmmmm must of been something else that happened in the two day meeting or do our managers like staying at the ibus hotel

[FMU]

Ngineer is right. Looks like there is another pretender out there.

[ampclamp]

G'day ngineer,
Not sure if you saw it but there was a post calling you a rumour monger last time I looked.

Said poster must have been embarrassed by shooting from the hip too quickly:O:O.

managers doing the licence checks again.

[Ngineer]

Cheers Ampman, I've been called a lot worse.

[Short_Circuit]

The legacy of the PIA is still being felt at the top. Lots of heads have rolled and more to come.
Just goes to show what a bit of unity can achieve.:ok:

[division1]

The buggery seems to continue, like Thai has finally had a gut full.
Word on the street they were pushed away by doubling their bill.
Our best customers just chucked on the scrap heap. Why?

With any luck the contracts manager is next to go.
He's done more harm to qf line maint than any other.

[QF22]

Wow was surprised to see this oldey but goodey pop up again !
So howz it all going?
Customer contracts, is that TG's baby? Should give it to PC he would do a better job.
So how's GH going after taking over from M?
The honeymoon is over, is he performing well?
Or same old same old?
Cheers

[Ngineer]

Same old same old. Customer contract prices being doubled. All rethinking. RH up to his old tricks in base, let the guys sort it all out and gently push them towards his way of thinking. A380 numbers not enought. SIT guys being watched closely for a big cut and shuffle.

Yeah, lots of fun. Things just keep getting better and better.

[Romulus]

Surprised more hasn't been made of the first part of this one

Qantas executive David Cox goes | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/business/story/0,28124,25212154-23349,00.html)

[Short_Circuit]

Not worth wasting cyberspace on him.

However there is a bit here Dave Cox to leave QANTAS!!! (http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/366575-dave-cox-leave-qantas.html)

[Romulus]

Not worth wasting cyberspace on him.

However there is a bit here Dave Cox to leave QANTAS!!! (http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-points/366575-dave-cox-leave-qantas.html)

My error, searched on David Cox and Cox (Cox too short for teh search function at 3 letters) and missed it.

thanks

R

[Short_Circuit]

Happy to be of assistance.:)

[qantastrike]

Rumours fast coming out of ol syd town..... DH to loose perth jolly in favour of his mate GB taking over 3 states?????????? Any one got the low down on this?

[Long Bay Mauler]

How reliable is the info qantasstrike?

Any other movements mentioned?

[ElPerro]

Because Dixon & Co wanted to beat the LAMEs at any cost (hundreds of million of dollars in fact) but with only a few 4 hour
stop work meetings and no overtime all management got was years of backlog work which will be a burden to QANTAS for many years to come.

The outcome was that LAMEs proved their worth, diligence and highlighted the incompetence of the managers running the place.

Win - win for LAMEs

Loose - loose for management.

I think you'll find it was loose - loose [sic] for everyone.

Let's put it another way
Because LAMEs wanted to beat their own company at any cost (hundreds of million of dollars in fact) but with only a few 4 hour
stop work meetings and no overtime all their own company got was years of backlog work which will be a burden to b]their company[/b] for many years to come.

The lack of understanding is incredible. To "financially hurt" QANTAS was a win. Then when a "financially hurt" QANTAS must cut jobs it's bad.

The logic in this thread is astounding. When you see money flowing in it's money you earnt and deserve a share of. When the money is flowing out it's management's money flowing out.

If you claim you are a "stakeholder" in the company (when times are good) and deserve money, how on earth do you justify that you shouldn't be a stakeholder in the loss?

The outcome was that LAMEs proved their lack of interest in the company, selfishness and highlighted the fact that despite their claims they are not true stakeholder in the company

Fair weather stakeholders...


Here is your shareholder equivelent:

Times are good:

"Cool, profits, money please"

Times are bad:

"Umm.. pay me money please even if it means you'll make a larger loss"

MY suggestion:

IF you want no redundancies :
Keep working
If the company goes broke you lose all your entitlements / money.

[BrissySparkyCoit]

This message is hidden because ElPerro is on your ignore list (http://www.pprune.org/profile.php?do=editlist).

awwww. The troll filter kicked in.

Damn :-(

[ampclamp]

so far no LAME has lost his or her job in fact there are some still awaiting redundancy from the last round offered.That time will likely come but it will not be because of a pay claim. LAMEs have been made redundant before and will again .When that happens so be it.

Numerous managers have lost their jobs or decided to "pursue other interests" retire etc largely as they lost a fight they could not win as they thought the engineers would rollover, they'd be able to employ enough people as an "alternate workforce" and that stopping O/T would not hurt them.
Wrong on all counts.
Qantas chose the path they took and set aside hundreds of millions to fight it.Their choice and responsibility alone.

Dixon and co stuffed up big time, started a war with the wrong weapons and in the end paid what the engineers politely asked for in round one.

In fact they could have offered less than the 4.5 % average achieved back in round one and it likely would have been accepted.In fact it almost went that way but they chose to be total smart@r$e$ and rewrote the fine print and then blamed the engineers for reneging on an in principle agreement.

Guess what ? The engineers position became more entrenched and determined to win.
He and the architects of the campaign are responsible.Few if any remain.Deservedly so. One because they lost , two because it was a flawed fight from day one.

Dixon and his ilk cost this company mega millions in the failed T/O bid also.Top management were totally marginalised by the bid and its process. They sought to enrich themselves at great cost to the company and the country.If Dixon and Gregg are such valuable people why are they no longer there?

If the bid had gone thru qantas would not exist.
Short termism at its worst. The govt would likely have had to bail them out or be without a real airline of global reach.

It would be at best a dessicated shell without a single asset of worth or cash to its name.

Now tell me who is shamefully selfish and misguided? 50 million dollar man or the 4.5% ers?

[rudderless1]

Lets sell the company to APA, take $500 000 000 commission in the best interest of shareholders of course.
Let that company rape every bit of possible equity out of the artificial price generated by the same people.
Let the company die, burdened with debt artificially created, costing 38000 jobs and leaving the nation a great airline down or the Nation funding its recovery!

But alas El Perro comes back to save the company! to buy it with a fraction of the profits raped, and to tell the staff they must work for less to keep their jobs.

Then say maintenance engineers cost the company $150m without a days strike!

What an idiot
What a Co*k :ugh:

[1746]

EL Perro (aka EL Troll) your interest and knowledge is evidently very short term and selective!
Remember back as far as the turbulent era of 9/11, the Ansett demise and SARS - those greedy engineers and all the other unions saw the situation was dire and collectlively took a pay freeze!
What did the collective management do?
Did they take a pay freeze?
Well not quite, they, because of their "skill and management efforts" settled for a 50% odd bonus!
Their leadership and management ethics were displayed for the world to see.....where were you then EL (Troll) Perro?

[Short_Circuit]

I would be happy to work on J* LCC model, a pay RISE for all engineers!

A quote from earlier in the thread.


lets compare LAME pays between Virgin/Jestar and Qantas,
starting wage at Virgin and Jetstar is approx $95k
Qantas is about $83 k p/a with shift loadings


Where are my orange star overalls?

[BrissySparkyCoit]

I think any shift towards a Jetstar style Qantas will be at an organisational structure level only. Qantas over the years has become bloated with useless positions. Planes need Captains and FO's, need fixing, baggage needs loading, buns need tossing and passengers still need to be checked in. It matters not if the tail is red or orange.The fleet size can be 136 or just 40, each plane still needs roughly the same number of each of the above.

I really couldn't care less if Qantas was run like Jetstar. It would still be full service, just much more efficient!

[tjc]

For those who are interested, (ABC Inside Business);

CEO sees 'leaner, meaner' Qantas in tough times - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/04/19/2546694.htm)

Video is available and the Engineers get a mention.

[Ngineer]

Anyone know what the big manager's meeting was about this week?

[Short_Circuit]

I hope they were handing out the DCM's :)

[Bumpfoh]

All we got is that there is an overtime restriction, all O/T must be approved by the Mgr or ops Mgr.
Even willing to accept delays and loss of aircraft availability due to a lack of manpower so it seems.:rolleyes: (It happened on Fri. evening in MEL)

How ironic considering the kerfuffle during the PIA about us not working O/T.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Batten down the hatches leading up to the end of the finanacial year, after that it will be a distant memory.:ok:

[Ngineer]

I hope they were handing out the DCM's

Well it's Monday and all the useless ones are still there.... Bugger!

All we got is that there is an overtime restriction, all O/T must be approved by the Mgr or ops Mgr.


But did'nt we "casualise" our workforce because they were bringing back foreign contracts, and also because they could'nt get overtimers?

[Long Bay Mauler]

In the West you can have as much overtime as you like but you cant have a new uniform.

Apparently its not just the Engineers uniforms thats in tatters.

[QF94]

Anyone seen the letter from the ALAEA stating that the AIRC has banned the use of urine testing in the workplace because:


Urine testing does not necessarily detect impairment
Is an embarrasing and humiliating process for an employee to undertake
Is invasive and potentionally violates your privacy
Is unneccesary as saliva testing is more accurate
Detects over the counter and prescription medicine prescribed by your doctor. This is private business between you, your family and your doctor, not your employer.
Security issues concerning storage of data from tested workers'I'm glad I'm one of the minority that have refused to do DAMP course time and time again. Management have absolutely no right to force anyone to undertake the DAMP training and have people sign off to do a urine test.

We'll see what the new HR manager for engineering, the honourable DM, will come up with to "encourage" staff to undergo the DAMP test.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Just heard the annual pilgramage is on to LAX for some much needed training for management and their ilk.

Perhaps there will be refresher training about removing chocks before pushback and how to avoid eye contact with LAMEs during times of covert ops.

[ampclamp]

Air NZ may sue Qantas over strike (http://business.brisbanetimes.com.au/business/air-nz-may-sue-qantas-over-strike-20090628-d18a.html)

What's this wildcat strike nonsense ? :ugh: Four hour lashings with wet lettuce is hardly wildcat territory.
Stupid journos wouldnt know if a tram was up him till the bell rang when it comes to the industry.

[qf 1]

get that bottom feeder Dixon to foot the bill for ANZ,it's his ego that created this mess,oh and that Oldmeadow fellow as well:}

[ampclamp]

I think Q engineers get a 3% rise from Jan 1, is that correct?

[Ngineer]

Any news yet at FWA??

[Romulus]

All of that for 3% and a couple of trinkets/token retirement transition opportunities?

Seriously?

Who twisted whose arm?

[chockchucker]

Wouldn't believe all the face saving press releases from the QF spin department if I were you Romulus.


Pay increases will actually average out to 4.5 to 5% for a lot of people. And, perhaps most importantly, the job security clause from EBA 8 has been carried over into EBA 9. Something Qantas certainly did not want to have happen but, under scrutiny from FWA, had to give ground on.


The ALAEA certainly didn't get a lot of things on their wish list. However, comes a time when you must decide to make a compromise and live to fight another day.


People dreading the introduction of maintenance on demand should note; nothing can really happen on that front until the TWU come to some agreement with Qantas. And that doesn't appear likely to occur any time soon.