Merged: QANTAS/ALAEA EBA

[The Mr Fixit]

Div 1 - Not advantaged by a service point, ever ?
Unless you are amongst a very small group of sparkies who were shafted by this system you are telling porkie pies
and didn't vote the system in ?
Possibly not but it was like it or not a democratic process and one touted by our own exec as the one ! believe that !
For your and everyone's benefit the vote got over the line by 12 votes Aus wide and our Fed Sec at the time, a right Wally, decided against a re-vote/count back even though it shat in the faces of the very people who had supported him
The points system truly disadvantaged the Avionics stream and cut off at the knees our 'unborn' as they say, it's quite boring now that the people who voted it in are starting to feel the constraints of quota levels and are crying poor short term gain long term pain

Sunfish, you have peaked my curiosity I want to know who this worm is ? is he religious ? :E

[QF22]

All those little guys at Asian MROs can't have their little EBA session, bcoz it's against the law ! Thank God we live in Oz even if our rights have been watered down.

Otherwise I agree, QF will get a big shock if they outsource bigtime into Asia, especially MAS ! The work isn't done and they can never gey a plane out of the shed ontime.

But will QF management listen? Not on your life !

Well done guys good to see you stuck together this time.

[carltonjudd]

my point is we were told not to take less than 5%.it is what we want and should not accept less. i do understand how hard it is and know they are trying hard.i know qf are hard to deal with but i find it hard to understand how you all believe it is a great deal. better than the first? yes a little. great to see level 3 gone? yes and hope next time level 4 gone. but do not try and tell me we won the fight. it may be selfish but it is what pays my bills.

[denabol]

Sunfish,

I don't have family in Qantas, but I do know more than a little about doing business in Asia and I couldn't agree more. The more that maintenance is moved to Asia to more the airline will be screwed and skinned in the future as those economies shrug off their dirt cheap status, invest in better skills and equipment, and decide holy cow we aren't here to be somebody else's cheap source of labor no more.

I think flight training facilities and maintenance have a good future in this country and Qanas and the Virgins will have to pay a price to get back what they throw away.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

WORST CASE GRADE 11 SCENARIO



Your figures are a bit wrong there mate. You have failed to factor in the expansion of the difference in the upper grades that ensures that nobody gets less than the 16% over 4 years regardless of their level.

70% of LAMEs are still on defined benifit schemes and at level 11, most are long serving employees who have stayed on their original scheme. At level 11 we estimate that 90% will benifit from the taxation savings on super that puts an additional hit of 2.2% on top from the date of lodgement. Averaged over 4 years this gives 4% plus .55% total 4.55%pa. 19 members will not get the super hit thus get the bare bones 4% unless they are new employees who get 1% extras super straight up.

Some members at other levels will also get the bare bones 4 but please remember that we inherited a system that had built in caps and not every problem will be fixed at once. More members will exceed 5% pa because of this EBA than those who will get 4% pa. Those who get 4% are now going to be more likely to move up if they get training.

[georgeandstork]

When do we get to vote ?

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

The vote date is not set yet but will be about 10 Aug.

[georgeandstork]

cheers ..........

[blubak]

For the few that maybe didnt do as well as the majority,take note of the great support that this deal is receiving!
No matter what deal was thrashed out,there was always going to be a few that felt it wasnt to their benefit but lets pay credit where its due-the work that has been put into this deal by our executive is nothing short of amazing considering what they have been up against and knowing exactly where to start and stop without provoking massive reaction from our employer and the government just to name 2 is definitely worth taking on board and in the end we all got something without too much pain and in the scheme of things-its a very fair deal and for the guys who got the greatest benefit,good on them,and for the rest-there is still something pretty fair and worth a few dollars for us.Well Done To All.

[SpannerTwister]

As far as I'm concerned, as good as this deal is, I think we should put the company on notice that next EBA we want the quotas / levels / training / service points fixed !!!



SpannerTwister

[chksatis]

Fed sec, if qantas change the terms of the in-principle agreement like last time, what is our course of action then? Or is the in-principle agreement legally locked in place??

[Bolty McBolt]

Fed Sec Said : - In regard to worst case scenario : Level 11

70% of LAMEs are still on defined benefit schemes and at level 11, most are long serving employees who have stayed on their original scheme. At level 11 we estimate that 90% will benefit from the taxation savings on super that puts an additional hit of 2.2% on top from the date of lodgment. Averaged over 4 years this gives 4% plus .55% total 4.55%pa. 19 members will not get the super hit thus get the bare bones 4% unless they are new employees who get 1% extras super straight up.


For my Own Curiosity ?
Are the majority of LAMEs in Div 3 because that’s where QF put the TN guys after the "merger".

Are 70% LAME really on Defined benefit?

Div 1 Super - Accumulative
Div 2 Super - Mostly Accumulative small part Defined benefit
Div 3 Super - Defined Benefit Total
Div 4 Super - Don't Know
Div 7 Super - Accumulative but salary sacrificed contributions

Anyone care to shed some light?

[Bolty McBolt]

Spanner said
As far as I'm concerned, as good as this deal is, I think we should put the company on notice that next EBA we want the quotas / levels / training / service points fixed !!!


Lets think big picture
I want to see same shift penalties for all.

[F.O.G.]

Careful there Bolty, once the 'new starters' ( read no dayshift penalties) out number the 'old timers' you might find we WILL all get the same shift penalties !! :eek:

[fixitdude]

My concern is that the company is watching..."Hi guys"....and depending on the level of members exceptance, depends on how much the QF offer document will differ from the Associations document. If the company are "fair dinkum" then the two documents will be identical. If they are not...then all we are doing is getting the fleet back up to scratch, only to start all over again when the vote goes down, and be accused in the media of renegging on the "agreement" again. Perhaps this is my cinical personality, but somehow I cant seem to bring myself to trust the company any more.

[1me]

Bolty, I'm thinking the same thing..

I'd be prepared to take the minimum if it meant we could get the post '96ers their dayshift penalties.. Maybe not palatable to some but I would consider it fair.

[SpannerTwister]

Hmm......

I'd hope the company certainly wouldn't try to do anything underhanded like change the agreement.

Right now, they've got 1600 LAME's who are not at all happy with management, and I think it would only take one incident like that to trip all 1600 over the edge..........

You accused us of having a go-slow....You ain't seen nothing yet !!!


SpannerTwister

[fixitdude]

I guess we just have to wait "in good faith"

[Jets on]

Division1,
When the grading scheme came in most people benefited from service points unless they had so many licenses that they equated to the quoted levels. These days with management saying no more training there is a lot of LAMEs that are on the bottom grades with service points their only way to progress.

TMF,
I think the disadvantage is to all trades for accepting bolt on payments after the manager cried poor mouth and warned our members to consider no payment so we might have a chance to get the contract as management did not see us as the ‘preferred’ customer. (what’s changed?)

Still, that was a while ago before we were united together.
In a perfect world I would like to see all LAME,s in the top grade, but as that’s not going to happen and it will take 16 years for a level 4 LAME to get to level 8 without training, then we need to show the company that it is advantages to them to have the best trained workforce at their doorstep and not just engineers who do ‘warranty work’ for inferior O/S MROs.
It is just lucky for QANTAS that they didn’t force our hand to go to 8 hour shifts because I for one would have campaigned that going back on extended hour rosters meant same shift penalties for all and no it wouldn’t be backwards , as everybody is disadvantaged away from their family/friends equally.
I like cotton shirts as well!

[sfde]

I see penalty rates as a federal government issue that should be standardized for all aussies. The association should be be pursuing this thru their ATCU connections so that it is law and then Q can't use it against us.

[ballhopper]

with the shift loading for new starters
on extended shift this can be done by agreement that all people on this shift gets paid the loading.
reading the utility roster posted outside there office M131/1 ALL utility workers get paid the roster allowance

only on 8 hours do you miss out

[Short_Circuit]

Div 1 Super - Accumulative

no it is classified as a defined benefit scheme.

[primethius]

Wow Posters it appears that you have already preempted the democratic vote as positive for the negotiated position.
The negotiated position can only be ratified when the final ballot is cast to the positive if you all dont realise.
The Federal Executive obviously have reached a final negotiated position and will no doubt endorse a positive vote after many exhaustive hours of impasse.
Praise their work, finance their holidays they were after all only doing the job they were elected to.
If Kevin Rudd gives we all a pay rise ,a tax cut, stops pollution and removes Eddie McGuire from the television screens should we relect him before 2010 and award him a pay rise.
The EBA position is just that an agreed position it is not the end of WW! or ll that has folk dancing in the streets it is a negotiated position.
Its about your livelihood not the future of mankind.

[no330]

It's good to finally see some positive posts on our long, drawn out battle with our arrogant, ignorant, and often stupid (mis)management. Well done Fed Ex :ok:, the effort put in by all of the team needs to be commended. It's the single best result we have EVER had in an EBA, (assuming we vote it up), and will put QF on notice for next EBA.

Well done also to all of the members for sticking together on this one, as Devcon4 stated, this has brought together all LAMEs, all trades, from all ports, Heavy, Base and Line, to stand together and refuse to be walked over. We now have the opportunity to finally get some reward for the long term shafting we have been copping :eek: .

I would like to know when we will see the final document to ensure we are voting on what we think we are :confused:.... we all know that the company's interpretation is often very different to ours. Is the ALAEA going to be doing a 'roadshow' to present the details and answer individual questions prior to the vote?? I would like to think so as we all need to be very clear on exactly what we are voting for.

Cheers!

[emal140]

Fed Sec. when the agreement is finally documented and explained at the ALAEA roadshow(s), is it possible to give some time and effort with an explanation of who/what/where and how the super increase applies. All i am hearing at work is question after question about the super increase and how it applies and have come to the conclusion that not many of us know what we are talikng about.

[Talkwrench]

Primethius, I’m pretty sure most members understand that a majority yes vote is required to allow the proposed EBA to be certified, but thanks for the reminder anyway. I can only surmise that the positive feeling expressed on this thread is a result of the posters seeing an agreement in principle that substantially surpasses previous EBA outcomes. The difference this time around to previous times is that when the membership roundly rejected the January agreement in principle, the executive listened, ran an clever industrial campaign (with the members support) and returned with a superior agreement in principle. As far as I'm concerned, this EBA8 negotiation should be a template for all future EBA negotiations. I will certainly be voting yes for this EBA and yes to return the current executive to office when exec elections come around.

[Stick'm up]

I like cotton shirts and big tits

[Stick'm up]

QF's Dixon: 'New aviation world order' ahead

Thursday July 24, 2008 Qantas Airways CEO Geoff Dixon said he believes the airline industry is on the verge of a period of consolidation into a few very large carriers that will be able to cope better with higher fuel costs.
Speaking this week at a lunch in Sydney, Dixon claimed that a "new aviation world order" is coming, according to the Australian Associated Press. "Right now the global aviation industry faces not just a shock or indeed a blip or indeed a crisis really but a permanent transformation," he said. A critical step toward that future may come thanks to second-stage open skies negotiations between the US and EU.
"The EU's push for the abolition of foreign investment restrictions has so far, believe it or not, been resisted by the US, which limits foreign ownership of its airlines to 25% of total voting stock,'' Dixon said. But there are signs, he claimed, that the Americans may be prepared to accept airlines from Europe and potentially other countries based on their principal place of business rather than strict ownership criteria.
"For us this would be a groundbreaking development,'' he said. "It would open the way for airlines to engage in meaningful cross-border investments, and sooner or later it will happen. And we believe strongly at Qantas that over time, consolidation will transform aviation. . .It will produce a few very large and extremely efficient global airlines with a portfolio of interests and a portfolio of brands."
AAP reported that Dixon was asked specifically about Air New Zealand, which Qantas attempted to acquire in 2003. He disagreed with ANZ CEO Rob Fyfe, who claimed his carrier is "small enough to stay underneath the radar," although he avoided saying that QF still is interested in acquiring the Auckland-based carrier. "Although I'm not going to say that Qantas and Air New Zealand are going to get together--we tried that once and we've moved on--I do believe very strongly, and always have, that consolidation will happen," Dixon said. He said it will be "very erratic" at the start but that "no airline, particularly in this part of the world, will be able to avoid consolidation."
He claimed that QF has positioned itself to avoid the "dark destiny" of being acquired through cost-cutting (ATWOnline, July 21) (http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=13406), investing in the business and ordering a significant number of 787s (65) and A380s (20).

by Geoffrey Thomas

[Konehead]

You can bet a whole bunch of humiliated managers are hunkered down figuring out how to claw back the extra they have to pay us.
Tulla Heavy: GOOOOONE
Sydney Precinct: here we come.
Let's hope the managers are gone before then.

[Devcon4]

One of our own, Andy Craig, sadly passed away recently. A great bloke, true mate and a LAME everyone held in high regard.

His service will be at Woronora West Crematorium 11.30 amd Friday 25 July (tomorrrow). Most of us know about it. I thought I would post the bad news here as a lot of people are reading this and some may not know the bad news and would want to say goodbye to our mate.

My heart is very heavy. Goodbye mate.

[chanel1234]

QANTAS ENGINEERS REPLACE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES

Yes QF engineers save the world, a victory for all led by the great SP

Thank god that you won , otherwise the world was doomed

A world without QF Engineers

We would all be doomed

but......?

[Stick'm up]

See you there Devcon4

[AEROMEDIC]

And don't discount the fact that one advantage of overseas outsourcing is all those lovely business trips for senior management - and no, I'm not joking. One senior QF manager, with a wife and two kids in Sydney, regularly "stays overnight" with a female acquaintance of mine as he does his "rounds" of various bases each month.:yuk:

If this true............ then dob him in to his wife.

Then he'll find out whether or not the fling was worth it.

:*:*

[AEROMEDIC]

As Forstaff Lames rely on the parity clause in their agreement,I wonder how this offer will flow on to them............

Comments..... Fed Sec??

:confused:

[mister hilter]

Sadly can't make it, but deepest condolences to family.
Truly one of the best.

[nut turner]

New him for many years, truely a sad loss to us all. Condolences to his family.

[sfde]

Do you need confined spaces training to inspect inside a 2m by 4m hole?

[CTMike]

Probably but dont worry about it just get the job done. It was probably just a crack missed at the last overseas heavy maint inspection. But hay as long as were saving money who cares!!Travel insurance will cover the lost baggage.

[murrayatwell]

Well its been said by the ALAEA for a while now, that is that the system has been degraded to a point where a major incident was looming and that it was only a matter of time. The ALAEA were right unfortunately, thank GOD we did not lose that Hull, it’s about time the guardians of safety were shown a lot of respect and the incompetent people at the top responsible are held to task.

To the media, do you think the Australian public should be satisfied with paying a premium for a service that is flawed, let me see, 747 400’s VH OJO and VH OJQ staples in the Emergency Egress wiring, possible result pax unable to find path to exit in dark or smoke filled cabin. DO YOU EXPECT AN ORGANISATION TO BE PERFECT, well Sir the public do expect that from your organisation. VH OJM, 4 off Generator failure, aircraft has no power other than standby battery and is twenty to thirty minutes from ditching. Latest serious incident VH OJK, has major structural failure and is very lucky to land at all, check out the story about United’s door failure and how may pax ended up in number three engine. Very similar!

Please go and look at these incidents and talk to the people that maintain, or sorry, attempt to maintain the standard. No Geoff, the unions are not playing the safety card, your system is failing and you have forgotten or perhaps you never knew that safety is no accident.
:= :ugh:

[division1]

No wonder your Maintenance Executive refer to you all as xenophobic.

He need not worry about that, since the bridge of trust has fallen.
It would be interesting to hear the $2M man explain what went wrong
but i think he has one of those red balls stuck in his mouth right now.
http://www.extremerestraints.com/images/resized/e/ec605eth_75_65.jpg

[reardisk]

Acute Instinct Get a grip!

My first post! With over 20 years experience in QF heavy I am not surprised with the end result of a poorly managed maintenance and repair organisation. FOG and D COC?Ks need to take a step back and realise the LAMES in OZ carrying out heavy checks are committed in their over and above efforts, ensuring the saftey of all aircraft are more than 100% complient!
We dont want to see a QF AC in pieces on the 6 o'clock news. Bring back all the OS checks and give the flying public some insurance that we are the safest airline in the world, for a bloody good reason!

Bravo to the ALAEA for an exceptionally over and above the line effort in achieving an acceptable outcome with the EBA8.

Long live the LAME'S

:ok::D

[poison pen]

What would the people in the ivory tower do now if we vote this EBA down.

Could we be worth another 10% or more?????

Well done Fed Exec.

Let's hope the truth now comes out about Qantas Engineering and the mis guided management we have had to endure.

Can I hear a senate enquiry into CASA calling.

I look forward to the next EBA.

[wrobinsyd]

WE only lost 3 percent of that one....

within budget.

get on with it

[QF94]

The eventual shutdown of maintenance at QF is NOT inevitable. Just ask anyone who has EVER had a joint venture in Asia how it has panned out.

Your ENTIRE argument rests on the assumption that Asia is always going to be a financially advantageous location to do stuff, which, I assure you, is not a safe assumption.

By moving operations overseas, you are exposing yourself to three additional sources of risk for your business. The first is sovereign risk - which is about the attitude of the Government in the designated country towards your country and their attitude to one of their companies doing work for you.

Sunfish, your argument may hold some weight for our curent ageing fleet. The A380 isn't going to be done in H96 in SYD and the 787 isn't going to be done in HM BNE. These new aircraft will have their heavy maint done more than likely in Singapore or Malaysia. Only the A checks and line maint. will be done here. Let's just look at what's happened in Australia in recent years. Ansett. GONE! 2001 QF SYD HM. GONE! 2005 QF HM MEL. Downgrading. A330 HM BNE. PENDING. AVV HM. Lots of outsourced labour onshore.

The second is the business risk associated with relying on an overseas facility. This is about what happens to you if they go belly up. This can be ameliorated if there are numerous suppliers to choose from, so that any failure can be quickly fixed by substitution.

Plenty of 3rd party MRO's out there. HAECO, SAECO, GAMCO, etc. QF will use anyone who will take them.

The Third is commercial risk - which is about competition and your ability to choose another supplier if you believe you are being gouged.

These risks must be managed if you are to succeed in outsourcing, and there are an infinite number of ways you can screw it up.

QF doesn't worry about risk management. It tries to kill a mosquito with a cannon. Throw money at it, and it has to work eventually.

So here's one for you QF 94, what happens to QF when all those little guys in your Malaysian MRO decide to have their little EBA session? You all ready know the answer - QF is F***ed.

Don't believe the bull**** about Australia being expensive either. As Asian living standards rise, their cost advantage disappears.

Sunfish, Malaysia doesn't have the same "enterprise bargaining" as we do in Australia. They have access to all the cheap outsorced labour they can get. They're surrounded by much weaker economies than their own, and have a willing foreign population to come in and do the work for a fraction of the price. Australia is not expensive for its labour, just that the Asian labour is much cheaper and better exploited.

Don't think for one second that I am in support of what QF management is doing or what their agenda is. I despise what is happening, but unfortunately, EBA or not, unfortunately the path taken is not going to be changed very easily, if at all.

[Sunfish]

QF94, your belief in your own uncompetitiveness is tragic. I pity you.

Once QF have taken the final step of disinvesting in heavy maintenance and puts its faith in SAECO, HAECO, etc. you will find out the hard way what it's like to be screwed.

The Asian MRO's will collude, but it will take you a while to find out that.

Furthermore it will be THEM not YOU who get the experience dealing with the A380 and B787 (especially sophisticated composite inspection and repair), effectively putting QF totally behind the eight ball.

To put it another way, you will be price takers because you will simply not even have the necessary engineering brains to even work out if you are being screwed by your MRO's or not.

It will then take you about five years heavy maintenance to realise you are being screwed and that the prices set are designed to be 1% below the cost at which it makes economic sense for QF to take the work back in house.

In other words, you are not going to save a penny, but QF management don't care, and the ones who make the outsourcing decision today will be long gone by the time the damage is apparent.

P.S. News article yesterday is that cheap Chinese goods are going to get more expensive as the Chinese factor in increased material costs and labor costs. The process of reducing their competitive advantage has well and truly started.

[Nasty Piece of Work]

Dick and Jane, thank you for becoming involved in our discussion your opinion as joe public is both welcomed and needed.

The ALAEA has for the last five years fought to bring the truth of overseas maintenance to the public arena, the previous exec whilst concerned about the closure of heavy maintenance was continually bullied by QF to the point where they became ineffectual, it seems the new kids on the block are not, with every step they seem to battle the ensuing tide. This EBA and PIA has been as much about the INEPTNESS OF QANTAS ENGINEERING MANAGEMENT has it has been about a payrise and unfortunately the 'Thriller in Manilla' was one of the many result. As Muzza At said in a earlier post there have been many incidents reported of near tragedies but what about the ones that QANTAS ENGINEERING MANAGEMENT HAVE HIDDEN the ZX 767 fleet which all have deteriorating drip trays above the electrical compartment on one aircraft up to 15 electronic units were contaminated by coffee and water. :ugh:

Its simple as big brother says "Its time to go........Qantas Engineering Management..........the australian public have nominated you for destroying the world's safest airline and aussie icon" :yuk:

While we're on the topic on p!ss poor performance, who were the would be scabs that flew up from Melbourne to put the skids under the base boys ? It doesn't take long for the scum to rise to surface after a cleanout :=

[Redstone]

While we're on the topic on p!ss poor performance, who were the would be scabs that flew up from Melbourne to put the skids under the base boys ? It doesn't take long for the scum to rise to surface after a cleanout

What's the story here Nasty? Were Melb blokes sent up to Syd to cover manpower shortfalls? Maybe the "precinct review" will involve the entire Eastern Seaboard.....:ok:

[Dockie]

QF30
This little gem was in the Melbourne Herald Sun this morning :-
" "These aircraft are getting a bit old and the engineers have been on strike, so they might be flying with slightly lower maintenance standards," one insider said."
I'd love to meet the "insider" who said this.
It's just never ending.:ugh::ugh:

PS: I wonder how deep the scribe line was?

[Slackjaw]

It's about time for this rot to stop, CASA are supposed to be the thin line between compliance and staying on the ground. Australia has GREAT engineers who WERE kept on their toes by CASA. Does it take these idiots a hull loss before they rein this in?? This is a systemic failure and needs to be addressed now before these idiots GD MH et al put one in with their stupidity. CASA step in or be held as culpable as the people you are supposed to be policing.

You have been given ample evidence you have not acted on.

Wonder how K RUD would feel to be at the helm when the failing of CASA leads to a tragedy.:=

[fatcat69]

Just a quick note of support for the AVV Lame's, its not that they are any worse than the old QF heavy people its just the system in place has increased the ratio of people with much less experience to Lames so sharply. You are all then rushed by failed strategic decisions on maintenance planning to cover up.

Maybe they will adjust the ratios so you can do the quality job Im sure you all aspire to do.

Hang in there boys these imposters days are numbered :ok:

[1me]

One of the things that annoys me the most is that when an incident such as this latest one occurs, people say that the maintenance standards are declining. It doesn't really matter that maintenance may have been carried out offshore...the fact is that we (as QF engineers) still get tarred with the same brush and our reputation sullied! :*

[lordofthewings]

Had an interview recently and was tarnished because i had worked for Qantas for many years. And this came from someone in the industry, who had never had anything to do with QF. Was quite funny when he said they were looking for LAMEs that would tow aircraft, keep there aeroplanes flying, work shift, show flexibility with rosters and so on.
Although i left QF because i was unhappy with alot of ****, but to hear others commenting on a place that they no little about, and tarnishing them with these reasons, i must say did piss me off, and to all QF staff i will be educating them in due course..

LOW

[ballhopper]

Lordofthewings
was this interview for jhs and was it for syd 245

[HotDog]

Dick & Jane, can you elaborate on this statement?
Whilst I have expressed an opinion once on this forum, I must say I am totally dissatisfied as a citizen with this incident above Manila. So let me be clear as a customer.


I presume you are blaming maintenance for this depressurization incident? I would be very interested to know how you arrived at this conclusion, even before an investigation commenced.:rolleyes:

[lordofthewings]

Ballhopper,
was neither of the two. can not say at this stage.

[Acute Instinct]

Training bond? What training bond? It's Emirates on the phone love! Tell them if they can't double Etihad's offer plus a penthouse in Dubai we don't care! Right love? Good on ya boys! Don't be shy with the accomodation. Sonny Bill all the way! We always knew the majority of you would look after number one! X from france, Sonny Bill A380

P.S. But love, it's the australian airline on the phone, they've got 3% plus a grade!

P.S.S. Boys, don't worry about us back here, the sooner you get on with it, the sooner we will be trained. And then..........World rate, its only a flight away. That's what the arabic newspapers are saying.........Desert Storm, time to shine.

[thosecotos]

Had an interview recently and was tarnished because i had worked for Qantas for many years. And this came from someone in the industry, who had never had anything to do with QF. Was quite funny when he said they were looking for LAMEs that would tow aircraft, keep there aeroplanes flying, work shift, show flexibility with rosters and so on.
Although i left QF because i was unhappy with alot of ****, but to hear others commenting on a place that they no little about, and tarnishing them with these reasons, i must say did piss me off, and to all QF staff i will be educating them in due course..

LOW


Unfortunately that is the general view of prospective employers in Oz -outside of QF. It's a shame but it's true... the 'he must come with old school QF, union baggage' perception is hard to break, even though many who are looking elsewhere do so to rid themselves of those shackles.

Good luck with the interview outcome

[Acute Instinct]

You must be right, that's why we had hundreds of the Sydney 245 boys banging on the scab gate, like visions from the great depression. $100K in six months would have drawn your insinuation into light. It didn't, now away with your sob story. Skill shortage means a willingness to manage institutionalised mental illness, especially when it comes of this standard, at this price. Your reference to 'union baggage' is simple idiocy.

[Bumpfoh]

While we're on the topic on p!ss poor performance, who were the would be scabs that flew up from Melbourne to put the skids under the base boys ? It doesn't take long for the scum to rise to surface after a cleanout

Sad but true. One SL2 and one LAME plus some AME's to provide "additional manpower" so it goes.

The SL2 has a track record of me first and F the rest ism, always intrigued me how he weasled his way onto the latest avionics fundamentals course.

But the other LAME just beggars belief. This guy is one of the five LAME's who was docked four hours pay for rightly refusing to handle a 747 classic due to a lack of familiarisation training as per company procedures.

And now the association are going into bat for them to get their money back? I'd rather the money spent on such action for this guy be given to charity as it's obvious where his morals lie.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[primethius]

Re-Hole in the Hull of OJK, It appears that many posters as always fail to mention that the flaws in the machine are those that are designed by humans.
If it is caused by corrosion then we need to design materials or build machines that do not suffer such effects, carbon fibre perhaps but time will no doubt reveal all the flaws in that technology.
Oxy bottles failing, redesign to remove possibility or remove nessessity for onboard carriage of emergency oxy.
Other speculations that humans who wish ill on others and fabricate harm that is more difficult to engineer out of the human condition.
Random acts of chance well that is the most difficult to control that will be possibly the most difficult to re-engineer.
The pax on JK should feel relieved that they experienced the best of our current engineering and human skills whilst travelling in a machine only dreamed of a century ago.

[Acute Instinct]

"... we do know there were two oxygen bottles in that area, we do know they're a main focus of the investigation, and we think it's prudent to put safety first, to get inspections done now rather than wait any longer," CASA spokesman Peter Gibson told reporters on Sunday (http://"... we do know there were two oxygen bottles in that area, we do know they're a main focus of the investigation, and we think it's prudent to put safety first, to get inspections done now rather than wait any longer," CASA spokesman Peter Gibson told reporters on Sunday)

Now that's safety before schedule. Facts are FAA flagged a relevant inspection 4 months ago.

The new CEO has been announced, Qantas will become Jetstar!

[Torqueman]

'CASA thinks it's prudent to put safety first'.

Wow CASA thinks! When will it DO?

I think CASA should KNOW it's prudent to put safety first and address the real issues that have dogged the industry over the last few years.

CASA to take action? Let me borrow from another Aussie expression, 'Pigs Arse!'.

[ampclamp]

OMG!! Love to be a fly on the wall at PG's and JB's offices.

[thosecotos]

You must be right, that's why we had hundreds of the Sydney 245 boys banging on the scab gate, like visions from the great depression. $100K in six months would have drawn your insinuation into light. It didn't, now away with your sob story. Skill shortage means a willingness to manage institutionalised mental illness, especially when it comes of this standard, at this price. Your reference to 'union baggage' is simple idiocy

LOW said he was frustrated at being tarnished by ill informed opinons from prospective employer about being a former QF employee. I had exactly the same problem years ago (long before industrial action) when I left so whilst it might be idiocy it is genuine. I along with others are proof you can get past it, and I hope LOW does too, but it's unfortunate that even before you turn up for interview their caution bells are ringing.

My understanding is that your Strikebreakers were largely exQF, being 're-employed' by QF. Completely different circumstance.

[PTTSwitch]

Why are there still Alternate workforce people being sent up to LAX? Looks like theres an EX DMM, Manager, and a small furry stocky australian animal going up there.

I thought the action was over.....not!

[Short_Circuit]

One can only assume that QF are amending the wording of the so called
Agreement and what comes out in black and white is tainted yet again.

Until the Fat Lady Sings!!!!!:suspect:

P.S. and then some.:ok:

[Obie]

Well, I think the fat lady did sing...

the other day when the oxy bottle let go!

I reckon you guys settled a week too early!!!!

[division1]

Looks like theres an EX DMM, Manager, and a small furry stocky australian animal going up there.

That's a laugh, sounds like a script from a 3 stooges episode.
Would that be the type of animal that eats, roots and leaves?
A true legend, a walking disaster area, then an ex dmm and
manager. I reacon they will create more work than they clear,
if they don't injure themselves first. :yuk:

[ampclamp]

Any feedback from CNS or BNE members' feedback meetings presuming they went ahead?

[Jets on]

Just a note to those going yeh ha…. By doing overtime, of which you still have every right to decline, you are propping up the continued overseas ‘A’ check program till a time that they have sufficient resources to relegate Sydney as a Transit stop only. Those working Sydney can see that even though we have withdrawn from PIA, there are no plans to bring back ‘A checks’ on any large scale again.
Winning a better EBA outcome is one thing, but forcing them to hire more troops should be, in my opinion, the major consideration, as when our numbers dwindle how so easy to get rid of us. For those younger LAME’s, if you are committing yourself to a large mortgage how much do you need the short term windfall of O/T compared to a longer term of employment :=

[employes perspective]

you are spot on JETS ON,the number of people must increase if QE is to survive,the less of you all only makes it easier for management to close u down full stop

[hi-speed tape]

QF gets new CEO.
Spud phucker !

[Take five]

I have always subscribed to the theory that you should treat everyone as you find them.
If he turns out to be of the same ilk as the last, we will soon know about it and there will be repercussions for him.

I have had a couple of interesting conversations of late.

One of these was with a JS hostess who said that she had found him to be a pompous ass, because he ignored her input at a meeting.

The other conversation was with someone who has been there since the start of the JS operation.
Seems that J waited by the cockpit, chatting with the crew, till the pax got into their seats, which, at that time, were unallocated.
He then just sat down in one of the remaining seats.
Then, after the flight he helped the hostesses fold the blankets etc, and left.
Also (after meetings with pilots) he would open the bar and have an open conversation about the real dramas, thereby negating the buffer level which his underling managers normally put between the boss and the workers.

That to me sounds good, but the proof will be in the pudding.

He may have been singled out to remove the other two pretenders to the throne and to be earmarked for removal at a later date.

Or he may be there to make Qantas a subsidiary of JS.

Or, maybe, just maybe, he may be good for us all.

Time will tell.

[Jets on]

It appears that the ‘buck stops here’ is an expression that you only find in the Hollywood movies. Why the American authorities don’t seem to want to pursue someone at the top for Racketeering sends an unclear message. Then again, 40 million of company money and a scapegoat seems to satisfy someone. Then again, maybe that’s the clear message! If you’re a junior manager then be prepared to do time if the s*&t hits the fan or deck or something!
No O/T for me.:ok:

[hi-speed tape]

I'm with you, Jets on. No o/t for me either.
Also, still need to see/ hear the final proposal from the company before I decide on a yes/ no vote.
Then o/t after that ????? Probably not. Because whatever the outcome of this EBA there still remains the problem with current management ! "buggery campain" !!!! I'll show them buggery ! Iv'e been buggered by professionals before, they are farkin amatures !

[5arsemonkey]

No OT for me either. Not until something is done about our current QE management. My manager used to work for IR in a bank. Need I say anymore. PIA may be over but now we return to the pathetic on time performance that was before PIA. It will be amusing how these idiots try to fix the problems they created. The "Dying Kangaroo" what a shame!
Thanks a million ALAEA who would have thought we could have stuck it to them the way we did. And we really didn't have to do that much, just follow their stupid procedures. And to our new CEO time to bring in the broom and sweep our AMAZING management away.

[blubak]

Anyone got any comments on how the meetings have gone so far and what general feeling has been?

[ElPerro]

So which maint org is to blame for the recent incidents hitting the media?
I thought the union said industrial action wouldn't effect safety?

[rudderless1]

EP
Did the industrial action cause the incident?
Do you work for the ATSB?
Have you concluded the investigation?
Can you give a report of your findings?:E

[hi-speed tape]

5arsemonkey.
I think my manager used to smuggle donuts !

[sfde]

I think my manager ate your manager.

[1me]

Well you don't have to have a long neck to be a goose now do you?

[Toolpants]

It’s good to see QF management know exactly what they are doing.
Did they really thing they could do so much damage and have it all be fixed overnight.

Qantas On time performance:
1-Aug-2008 = 38% on time.
2-Aug-2008 = day is not over yet but currently 50%.

Data FlightStats (http://www.flightstats.com/go/Airline/airlineScorecard.do?airline=%28QF%29+Qantas+Airways&airlineQueryDate=2008-08-02&x=17&y=7)

[Mr Invisible]

I'm waiting for the Exec to turn up and give us a rundown of the EBA offer but was wondering how it's been received so far ?
On a side note I was told that a no confidence vote in engineering management was raised in Brisbane is this true ? will a petition be raised for us to sign ?

[Millet Fanger]

A petition could never be started where engineering staff could register no confidence in the present engineering management due to OH&S reasons.
There would be too many injuries caused by the rush to sign!!!

[1me]

Well I received my "Proposed LAME EBA 8 Benefits Statement" in the mail today, but as yet still no sign of the actual EBA 8 document..

Makes me wonder...:hmm:

[Annulus Filler]

Received documents and CD today. It is a big YES from me. Well done to all.

[NAS1801]

On a side note I was told that a no confidence vote in engineering management was raised in Brisbane is this true? Let's hope it was true!!! Replace the managers that came from non-heavy maintenance backgrounds with those that have. Someone who understands how heavy maintenance should be run because they have been there/done that.

[1me]

Maybe mister postman will bring my CD tomorrow! ;)

[1me]

How big is the file on the CD? Is it able to be emailed?

[The masked goatrider]

Transmission has always been there. This is from EBA 4 clause 38.

38 TRANSMISSION OF BUSINESS

38.1 Where a' business is before or after the date of this Agreement transmitted from an employer. (in this subclause called "the transmitter") to' another employer (in this subclause called "the transmittee") and an employee of the transmitter in that business becomes an employee of the transmittee:

38.1.1 The continuity of the employment of the employee shall be deemed not to have been broken by reason of such transmission and;

38.1.2 The period of employment which the employee has had with the transmitter shall be deemed to be service of the employer with the transmittee.

38.1.3 In this subclause "business" includes trade, process, business or occupation and includes part of any such business, and "transmission" include/s transfer, conveyance, assignment or succession whether by agreement or by operation of law and "transmitted, has a corresponding meaning.

[division1]

Nice to see reward for our increased compliance and technology
obligations. The negotiation team have done an outstanding job.

[max1]

From todays Courier Mail.

Mr Cox said the latest round of safety scares had nothing to do with the airline's growing reliance on overseas maintenance firms.

He said Qantas employed 7000 engineers in Australia and 2000 of them conducted heavy maintenance.

"So that means the vast majority, and I mean the vast majority, of our work is actually done here in Australia and has been for many, many years and will continue to be," he said.

Is this correct?

[1me]

Got the CD today.. quite laborious reading though..

[Dockie]

Re:Max1

From todays Courier Mail.

Mr Cox said the latest round of safety scares had nothing to do with the airline's growing reliance on overseas maintenance firms.

He said Qantas employed 7000 engineers in Australia and 2000 of them conducted heavy maintenance.

"So that means the vast majority, and I mean the vast majority, of our work is actually done here in Australia and has been for many, many years and will continue to be," he said.

Is this correct?

Another lie by DC. He is obviously including the Forstaff guys at AVV.
The sooner he goes the better. A desperate statement by a desperate
manager.

[Short_Circuit]

DC employed 7000 maintenance staff BUT must have sacked 5000 maintenance staff because 2000 is all we have.

WTF

We still do not have enough staff in Australia to keep the fleet flying without reducing flying>>>>>>>>>>:ugh::mad::ugh:

[binrow]

According to the 2007 annual report QE employees around 6000 people in it maintenatce facilitys including AVV (NOT TO MANY ACTUAL QF STAFF-APPOLIGIES TO THE FORSTAFF BOYS) BNE,MEL AND SYD AND QDS this is stated on pgs 23 and 26 its a long way short of 7000 engineers :=


But thats OK as its only a small lie.

[Toolpants]

Received my benefits statement today.
I'm happy.

Thanks SP and all the ALAEA reps / exec. Well done.

[1me]

Just be sure to read the fine print of the whole document.. As someone stated previously.. "the devil is in the detail..."

Everyone, please make sure you fully understand the entire document and don't just look at the numbers. As you know this document is a consolidation of many other documents/awards and spells out our conditions. I'd hate for us to be distracted by the numbers only to have some prickly little clause slip through un-noticed and bite us on the proverbial.

[Collando]

Appedix H of document page 84

I thought you were entitled to long service leave after ten years?
Para 2H.2.1a states initial entitalment after fifteen years.
Has this changed?

[division1]

Well, i just checked my situation out,
:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

Something did become clear though, i had not received
any reward for using my new generation licences.
I don't want to harp on about, as i personally feel my
total income is fair compense for my toils, but to the guy
who doubted others never had any gain from service points,
from my statement... 11 service points and 4 training points.

Perhaps the eba will get up, great, then what?
Some workplaces have been crippled by the buggery campaign.
Customers are demanding our work back, while management
looks into the mirror once more.
Here then is another engineering management lie...
"we can respond to Customer Airline requirements with flexibility
and an understanding of operators concerns and constraints."
About Qantas - Our Company - Qantas Departments - Engineering & Maintenance (http://www.qantas.com.au/info/about/engineering/index)

[hi-speed tape]

Well, Iv'e read the EBA doc & formulated my opinion, just like most others have too.
But then when all the dust settles, post EBA, where does that leave us ?
The management have now exposed themseves for what they really are. They have shown that they are quite prepared to prey on us with impunity & engage in "buggery campaigns" & operate outside HR guide lines, then hide behind their managerial aprons for protection.
But QF engineering is now in a total mess because of these people. Before the "Amazing people" arrived, engineering was ticking along just fine. Sure things could have done with a little fine tuning & by engaging the "staff", savings could have been made & the whole operation could have been "freshend up".
But instead what we got was basically a load of stormtroopers marching in resulting in the closing down of Syd HM which was churning out 747 c & D checks back to back to a quality that any MRO in the world would be proud of. The "sacking" of most third party work on line stations, which brought in millions of dollars in revenue to offset the QE maintenance bill. Retrenching of hundreds of the companys most experienced, highly skilled LAMEs'.
The list could go on......
How do this management remain in a job ???? They fcuk up everything they touch ! Then they come up with another fcuk up to try and fix their last fcuk up !!!!
This management has put us in the sh*t and it's all our fault because we stopped doing o/t for several weeks. Well I'm not helping them to dig their way out of this one. As for overtime, well unless an assclown manager and a HR shinyarse, call me into an office and ask me if I have a valid reason not to do overtime........ Fugin idiots !
Sorry, rant over.

[HARDNUT]

Just reading through the document.What does everyone think about the training bond??? (for 380 training)

[hi-speed tape]

All the A380 conditions are already agreed hardnut. They just added them into the "consolidated" document that we all recieved.

[Short_Circuit]

??? What A380 training. 99% of us won't get it....
The golden hair boys there in Team A380 is it, no more..
Another management "Buggery Campaign" to get rid of multi licenced Boeing boys.:=

[Clipped]

How do this management remain in a job ???? They fcuk up everything they touch !

My dilemma, as well - how do these guys get away with it? How has every other department, executive mgmt and Board, of the airline, stood back, and let these guys amass such a mess? What spin do they feed others? Obviously, with the same lies they have and continue to perpetrate to us. What level of incompetence must one achieve before he is given his marching orders?

They must spin alot of technical jargon at departmental meetings and everyone around the table just looks mystified and shrugs their shoulders.

And just wait till we sign off on this EBA. If it gets up, sure will get some doe, but these guys are goin' to run wild.

[hi-speed tape]

Well ? Come on managers.
Let's hear it. We know you knumb nuts read this thread.
Tell us all about your great achievements since taking over the helm. Sell us this EBA.
Please, just one of you, tell us how you keep your jobs!!!!
Waiting..................................
All I hear are donuts being munched.......

[dr skydrol]

Re courier mail D.cox's statement
"So that means the vast majority, and I mean the vast majority, of our work is actually done here in Australia and has been for many, many years and will continue to be," he said.
What a damn lie. Just look at the scheds for this week and see how many A checks are being done in LAX compared to SYD. All the while a whole crew is being wasted sent to the base from SIT to supplement manpower when we could be servicing other airlines and making $$$ for QF to curb the rising fuel costs.Sorry that would make sense wouldn't it.
Last week United airlines wanted to borrow a highlift. They were told to call a certain manager, who refused saying they are not a prime customer.We had the manpower to do it.LOST INCOME FOR ACS. This has to be the only management in the world that does not like to make money and grow a business. When and if we are to help other airlines it can only be an AME not a LAME as dictated from that same numbskull.
"The buggery campaign continues".
and the lies get bigger.

[another superlame]

Boys don't even worry about the Transmission of Business involving JHAS, they had there chance at QF glory and they lost it, they are lucky to get the 737NG work.
There is no chance of them taking over the whole shebang. With the constant management changes they are having, due to the fact they are being run by clueless construction minds, they are almost in over their heads now, let alone take on more than a few NGs.

I think now that GD is on his way out things might change for the better.

But the J* leprechaun didn't want any J* inhouse maintenance when they started. Rumour has it the only reason J* has maintenance is because it came with the package from Impulse.

If QF management want to invest in QF E & M then let them become a wholly owned subsidiary and go out and become the world renowned maintainer of aircraft they are known to be. Let them fix aircraft for all airlines and make money from it, they did it in the past and they can do it again, all it will take is a manager with a set of gonads and some foresight.

[Anulus Filler]

Gents...

How the devil is in the detail.

44.3 A380 Roster

44.3.1 A number of pre-agreed roster arrangements may be able to be utilised by the Company with respect to its A380 operations. These roster arrangements will be:


44.3.1 (a) 9.5 hour, 7 days

44.3.1 (b) 10.9 hour, 7 days

44.3.1 (c) 12 hour, 38 hour week roster, 7 days. (Note: This may include a 12 hour hybrid of not more than 12 hours per shift which may be necessary to round off the 38 hours)

44.3.1 (d) Any of the above rosters inclusive of an RDO (i.e. 40 hours week)

44.3.2 As some of the above are 38 hour per week rosters there is no accrual of an RDO in those rosters. Payments for the above rosters will be in accordance with clause 24- Shift Work of this Agreement.

The last paragraph is the catch in all this...YOU WILL NOT GET ANY RDO'S AND YOU WILL BE WORKING A LOT MORE SHIFTS FOR THE SAME PAY.

Ask any LAME in Perth what they went through last year with the proposed introduction of the 10.9 hr shift. A380 team, your additional payment is about to be wiped out.:sad:

[division1]

Did the team380 lames agree to their rosters and payments already?
If the EBA8 44.3 A380 Roster clause is somehow different to that,
then they don't seem to be complaining. "for any reason or none".
Management has shown no particular talent at rostering and it shows
in the ridiculous manpower utilisation around many workplaces.

[hi-speed tape]

like the good Dr(skydrol) said, we now spend more time running from one side of the airport to the other that by the end of a 11 hr shift we rack up hours in travel time & job famil, handovers, figuring out where stores drop points are etc, etc........
Now if we still had the customer airlines as soon as we clock on at 5 am we are straight out the door to arrive the Pommy/ Thai, etc, etc & that = $$$$$$$.......
Fuggin Idiots !

[hi-speed tape]

Precinct ! what a great idea.
Anyone remember the Mike bus ?????

[Big Unit]

I don't remember the mike bus but i do remember Mike Hunt.

[Dockie]

TJU is back in the hangar. Apparently Cargo tape doesn't work too well on overhead aircon ducts. When is DC and his henchmen finally going to be held accountable?:ugh:
On youtube put Today Tonight Qantas into the search and there is a part1 and part 2 video about outsourcing. DC does a fantastic job for our cause. With DC at the helm, all I can say is GOD HELP US!!!!

[Bolty McBolt]

Mike Bus

There is no way the Mike bus can come back unless.....

We get Gus Wiskey to do the Mike Bus communicators job.

I know he is retired now but surely we can bring him back as a "consultant" :yuk:

[domo]

We get Gus Wiskey to do the Mike Bus communicators job.

better weld his bike back together then

[division1]

"With DC at the helm, all I can say is GOD HELP US!!!!"

You've hit the nail on the head, he has no conception of the engineering and maintenace ethos, or whats left of it.

[Big M]

44.3.2 As some of the above are 38 hour per week rosters there is no accrual of an RDO in those rosters. Payments for the above rosters will be in accordance with clause 24- Shift Work of this Agreement.

The last paragraph is the catch in all this...YOU WILL NOT GET ANY RDO'S AND YOU WILL BE WORKING A LOT MORE SHIFTS FOR THE SAME PAY.


Not sure what the "catch" will be for the 380 guys. If a roster equals 38 hours per week then obviously no RDO. Not rocket surgery.(or brain science) Same goes for every LAME. We get paid for working 38 hours per week - any more is overtime. A **** roster may be forced upon any or all of us, just like the Perth guys you mentioned.

e.g
Wednesday 9.5 hours (dayshift)
Thursday 9.5 hours (nightshift)
Friday Off
Saturday 9.5 hours (arvoshift)
Sunday Off
Monday 9.5 hours (dayshift)
Tuesday Off

They've worked 38 hours for the week = no RDO.(crap roster but)

If you work permanent dayshift Monday to Friday 7am - 3pm you are working 40 hours for the week, so obviously each 4 weeks you are entitled to an R.D.O

No devil in the detail there.


As for


There is no way the Mike bus can come back unless.....

We get Gus Wiskey to do the Mike Bus communicators job.


Next you'll want Kerrop back at the fuel desk!! :E

[Bolty McBolt]

Next you'll want Kerrop back at the fuel desk!!

I want Gus, Mick Flasha and Ernie.
Just is not enough cantankerous old blokes around to let you know what you have to look forward to...

Bring back the Mike buses and the works order 80025:- Awaiting Transport

So efficient but not sure which of the 4 pillars to place it under ???

[Anulus Filler]

Big M

The fact is that the proposed package has a clause in it that may introduce the 10.9 hour shift - see 44.3.1 (b). That shift pattern is specifically designed to have you work an extended roster without an RDO. All well and good if as you say you work 0700 to 1500 with 38hr/wk. But it wont be the case. I would bet my left one that there will be an extended roster introduced in the near future (namely a 10.9 : 4 on/4 off) and you can kiss your RDO's goodbye.



On a lighter note, could someone please clarify this for me:

22.2.3 The average shift penalty will not be paid for sick leave, workers compensation, long service leave and overtime or for any other purpose other than the calculation of ordinary time earnings.

I thought that if we were on workers compensation we still get shift penalties?

[the rim]

ernie and kerrop[who looked great at dateman's planting] are still around but the others are in heaven's bay three at the back of the store enjoying a cool one or two looking down on all the sh%t going on here ahhhh thoes were the days

[Runaround Valve]

It is Kerop, and not Kerrop.

[SpannerTwister]

After full and due consideration I will be voting "NO" for the EBA.

Firstly, EVERYONE didn't get 5%, and was not the whole aim, for all of us to get no less then 5% ?

To add insult to injury, I believe it is mischievous to add in any increase in out pay as a result of Salary Sacrificing Superannuation.

Salary Sacrificing your superannuation gives rise to two issues that are not Qantas' problem, you will become liable for contributions tax (15%) and also you may need to pay tax on withdrawal, depending on your circumstances.

It seems foolhardy to me for Qantas to call this a pay rise when it exposes you to two additional taxes.

Also, as much as I disagree with the 3%, I cannot believe that for one of the periods the association agreed to a 1.5% increase when we got the level.

So, in effect WE DID NOT GET A FULL LEVEL, 1.5% OF YOUR PAY WENT TO PAY FOR YOUR OWN PAY RISE.

Nice try exec, not too bad a deal, but just not quite there.




SpannerTwister

[The Black Panther]

Qantas decides against servicing 737s in Malaysia - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/08/09/2329773.htm?section=justin)

Qantas decides against servicing 737s in Malaysia

Posted 46 minutes ago
Updated 41 minutes ago
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200802/r225857_895367.jpg (http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200802/r225857_895374.jpg) Qantas says both planes will now be serviced in Australia. (AAP: Mick Tsikas, file photo)

Audio: Qantas abandons Malaysia maintenance (AM) (http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/audio/am/200808/20080809am04-qantas-maintenance.mp3)
Qantas has decided against sending two of its 737 planes to Malaysia for heavy maintenance work.

[Clipped]

Qantas has decided against sending two of its 737 planes to Malaysia for heavy maintenance work

For now, that is. They're only responding to media scrutiny.

Don't forget that Joint Venture with MAS, trumpeted by none other than GD and DC. That is, long term outsourcing.

On another note - it's nice to see that a 'Qantas spokeswoman' is keeping DC out of the media limelight.

[Dockie]

"Qantas has decided against sending two of its 737 planes to Malaysia for heavy maintenance work."
I find that statement quite humurous because the first one (TJK) has been in Tullamarine for over two weeks and is due out in about a week, and the second one (TJJ) has been on the plan for about a month.
More lies from DC and his henchmen.
It's time for DC to fall on his sword.

[hi-speed tape]

Yep, those were the days........
When your manager was an engineer! Aircraft used to go on time. A delay or a missed arrival was a black mark against your name.
Now you sit watching aircraft sitting off bay while you try to get to another section at the airport to report for duty !
Fuggin idiots !

[UPPERLOBE]

Gee you blokes are game putting the "e" in Gus Whisky, I used to put it on the workload with the "e" and it guaranteed a hot phone call every time, I loved it.

Ahh bay 3 or Wally Boyd's bay 6, Lewin, Throbber, Charlie Micallef, Splat, Crilley, Robbo, Dags, Bullock, Bilko, Herman and Darby plus many many more great characters......

Very good value in those day's.

[the rim]

aaahhhh yes what a time when you could sort things out ...went to the terminal in the '70's and stayed for 4 years....had a great time mmmmm cleaners...:E

[Devcon4]

The good old days! Yep, got to a big reminder of it at The Dateman's farewell. Great to see Kerop, Wilko, etc looking fresh as!

Pretty sure I saw the work of the Phantom Pisser as well at the wake. I think the Phantom Nudist must have been out of the country. Very unusual for him to miss a gathering like that. I know The Dateman sighted the Nudist down in Melbourne a few years ago. I think Dateman may have even know the Phantom Nudist's identity! Good old Dateman. I miss him a lot. A true legend.

Dateman brought us all together that day and made us realise that we are a family. Dateman may have passed away, but he really is still here with us. It is his spirit that makes us what we are. Forget the dopes we have to put up with and keep his spirit in your soul and all will be good. Do what we are best at and still manage to have laugh with your mates. We really are blessed with our mateships that we have. That's something a lot of people don't have and I really think we are lucky to have that. I know when I am on the job the boy's are watching my back and are ready to do whatever it takes to get the job right.

Wilko reckoned he missed the place. One of the young blokes told him not to even think about coming back because he would end up punching managers in the head! Funny, I laughed my head off! Could you imagine some of those guys who ARE the foundations of our industry putting up with these tuggers! Mate, it would be a war!! Be pretty funny watching the old guys messing with their heads. I would pay to watch new school management vs Wilko in a face to face meeting trying to push their crap down his throat. Gold. Imagine Kerop at work on Donut Boy! Ha! That would be funny to watch!! Hey Boy!!!!!!

[shazza26]

Does anyone know when QF are lifting there recruitment Freeze?

[Short_Circuit]

EBA 8 voting opens today.

Get them in which ever way you see fit.

Can't wait for EBA 9..

[another superlame]

Ending the hiring freeze would mean having someone at the helm with some balls and some foresight. I don't think anyone at the front has either.

When is Muzza and his band of dysfunctional merrymen going to be shown the door for his excellent management style. If the board can gag Geoff ******** surely they can axe muzza and co.

[stuntcock]

I'm not too keen about being sent back to base maintenance.

Feedback from Leading Hands meetings with Managers indicate about 40 people to go back permanently,not sure if thats total , or off pillars 1 & 2,
3 & 4.

I wouldn't mind working there under the current 10.9 hour roster as it stands at the moment.1 excess crew on the day swing shift going to base.I thought that was what the Sydney Precinct thing was about.

According to Mr DM Krispy Kremes Syd SIT and SDT are merged together.
I haven't seen too much cooperation on manpower.
I guess they haven't ordered the new mike buses yet.

I guess we'll have to want till after the eba8 vote to see what will happen and whether management decide to keep any customer contracts.

Any thoughts from other concerned ACS SIO lames,ames :confused: :confused: :confused:

[chksatis]

Well if they are going to take 40 people back to base the first people that should go back is the people who came over when heavy shut down a few years ago, then it should go on when you came to the SIT, most recent people go back. Also the people seconded there at the moment to go back to where they are from to. Which leading hands meetings were these?? Base meetings??

[1me]

chksatis..don't lose the plot now..put the knives away.. You don't need to get so defensive. Let's not undo all the good work and go back to an "us and them" scenario..

[stuntcock]

Yes I agree with you.

These meetings were held at DMM's office SIT, early morning a few days ago.
Maybe it will come down to license coverage or who the favorite boys are.

[Clipped]

Voting link, if anyone is interested.

Elections Australia - Online Voting (http://www.myvote.com.au/lameeba8) :ugh:

[hi-speed tape]

Who cares where they work at QE ??
If your'e happy youl'l be productive, if not you'll give the bare minimum.
Try and force a guy to work in an area, on a roster he's not happy with.Better to give him a package.........

[SpannerTwister]

After full and due consideration I will be voting "NO" for the EBA.

So..How is everyone else voting :bored: ?


SpannerTwister

[stuntcock]

Yes :ok::ok::ok:

I didn't get the full 5% either

Are you on a high level spannertwister ?
If you are you'll get more than someone on a lower level
getting 5%

I don't like your chances of the no vote getting up.
Enjoy the backpay

[SpannerTwister]

Yes :ok::ok::ok:
:
:
I don't like your chances of the no vote getting up.
Enjoy the backpay

Yes, I'm in a "higher level", but to me it's not about the number of $$'s that I'll get, We went into this with a "5% for all, Take no prisoners" mentality.

It seems to me that we've failed in this endeavour :( .............

On the bright side, Hopefully we've got a new attitude, with solidarity and a spine like we've never had before :ok: !!

I agree, I too think the "Yes" vote will get up, and I'll certainly enjoy the backpay :D !!

I guess for me, it's a win-win situation, I get a (semi) decent pay-rise, a fist-full of $$'s back-pay, and the warm feeling inside that I stuck to my principals and didn't sell my beliefs our for a bag of silver and voted "No" !!


Roll on EBA-9 :E



SpannerTwister

[ballhopper]

Voted yes
show me the money
advance payment of a redundancy package
So 40 terminal gingerbeers coming to the base, thats a bumer for those involved. I hope we get the contracts back.

[SpannerTwister]

May be a while before we see any redundancy packages again :* ...........



SpannerTwister

[Short_Circuit]

I feel the vote will get up from what I hear from around SYD.

What will not get up is the goodwill of the engineers post the buggery campaign..
No good, will come of this, D Cox said in his letter to us,
how right he is. :p

[Jets on]

I'm with you Short_Circuit. Let's all NEVER forget the attitude of those who have sold their soul.

[Clipped]

Just wanted to get this thread back onto page 1.

Dixon gone, Gregg gone, Cox ?

[hi-speed tape]

Me too clipped. Most folk will now have made their minds up though and the EBA is out in black and white, so it's all possibly comming to an end.
My disapointment lies in a few areas of the EBA, one being the 4 year duration. Should never be more than 3 years unless the company really pull out the stops and wrap the deal up before the current EBA expires, with additional bonuses for the guys' an gals' out on the floor, for doing the right thing during the previous EBA !!!
If the company do not have an EBA 9 ready to roll at the expiry of EBA 8 then the very next day the o/t stops.
We learnt a lot from this last cock up,lets grow on it.
PS: thanks to all who have contributed on this thread even the trolls, I've learnt alot and had many giggles.
Thanks.......Hi-speed.

[domo]

in todays smh
The most interesting was a change in the relationship between Gregg and Dixon. Gregg was vocal in his criticism of the war with maintenance unions and Dixon wanted to take them on for a monumental battle.

anybody know about this?

[griffin one]

If the yes or no vote gets up then its democratic.Everybody had their chance to vote in favour or not. One thing that will never be forgotten is the buggery campaign.Until a manager is in charge that has come from either an engineering background or an ex lame i dont think the boys and girls on the floor will ever show goodwill or loyalty again.
As for the sio lames returning to base just remember half the poor base individuals didnt get a say in where they ended up in 91 when rotation was stopped. Once this EBA is sorted, For the sake of enginnering and the alaea do not climb back onto the high horse and revert to us and them mentality.

[Dockie]

My attitude towards DC and his henchmen will never change. No respect,no trust and always assume that they are lying.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I have a feeling that this successful thread will shortly come to a close. Voting results are in.

1552 on voting roll

1298 yes

81 no

94% in favour

6% against

89% of LAMEs took part in ballot.

I think we can take this as a tick of approval from our membership and thank you all for sticking together to get a better EBA outcome. I think it also timely to thank the owners and moderators of PPrune for their co-operation and allowance for what has been a pretty serious industrial dispute to play itself out over this new medium. With our membership spread so far and wide, the campaign could not have taken place the way it did without PPrune. Thanks again.

Steve Purvinas
ALAEA
Federal Secretary

[Slim Dog]

To the people of the ALAEA,
You have done extremely well in these EBA negotiations. All moves that you placed to get us our final outcome worked out with a unanimous vote.
Once again, thank you for your time and your patience. Well done!!:D:D:D

[Dockie]

A big thankyou to Steve and the rest of the executive from the guys at Melbourne Heavy.:D:D:D:D:D

[griffin one]

Well done fedsec and crew, Too bad the boys of the old exec didnt have the balls to do what you did.Hopefully there are some ex exec members turning in their sleep after slandering the new exec,After they came to power. More went on behind the scenes then anyone knew,So next time you pass an official just say thanks and be on your way.To sp,wv,pc,and all the rest as M would say TAKE 5 and enjoy some R&R.

[domo]

Sounds like a fat lady is singing

well done all footsoldiers and generals its over in our favour

I believe this battle may have forced dixon out

but only cliffort and dixon will know if this is true

[SpannerTwister]

It's official, the Fat Lady has sung !!

Personally I'm a bit disappointed we didn't hang out for the full 5%, but as I said a few posts ago, it's not a bad deal and I think we'll all enjoy our fist-full of dollars !!!

Lest we forget ..............

1) Start our negotiations for EBA-9 well in advance
2) They need our overtime
3) They now know what a LAME is, and how much they need us.....under the current situation. There's something we need to be mindful of.......
4) United we stand....Divided we fall. From this day forward we are No longer Dockies or Line, No longer Cones or Blackhanders, No longer Red or Blue teams, No longer Base or Terminal, we are LAMEs, of our trade, from our sections, from our bases, LAMEs first, categories last.
5) Now we must ensure that "The battle of EBA-8" is never forgotten. We must remember to talk about this often, pass our PIA stories around one to another, ensure the memory of the lessons learnt during EBA-8 are passed on to the younger generations.

Well done to all those who participated, from the Fed Sec, to each individual LAME, and let's not forget all of the other Qantas staff who supported us, the flight-crew and front-counter staff who had to deal with hostile passengers, the bag-snatchers and all the others who worked hard to cope with the delays, to all those who in so many ways supported us, Thanks to you all :ok: !!

So, What are you going to do with your back-pay :D? Something sensible like straight off the mortgage ? I hope not :)...Well, at least not all of it, spend some on yourself and your family :ok: !!!

See you back here in a couple of years !!!


SpannerTwister

[1746]

Thanks for use of this wonderful medium, PPRUNE and your moderaters!

Thanks to the FED SEC and his crew, for your fantastic efforts! Not only did you manufacture a better result for one and all, but you delivered something more important....UNITY! Even in the darkest moments there was a tangable display of unity and morale has lifted because of it!

Let us never, ever forget the strength we have gained from this unity and thrive to foster it further. No doubt there will be many, many trying times ahead!

Thanks again :):D:):):D:D:):):):D:D:D:D:D

[sprocket check]

Well done.

There was an interesting comment from Dixon today on the profit result that went something like:
(not verbose, I heard him on the radio)

"the result for the company would have been much better had we come to an agreement with the LAME's union earlier"

sc

[Short_Circuit]

"the result for the company would have been much better had we come to an agreement with the LAME's union earlier"

That would be the $150,000,000.00 bucks (plus delays) wasted trying to destroy Qantas Engineering employees during their very fair EBA negotiations.

That represents exactly the amount of short fall the market (the shareholders) had expected in the profit announcement. $1.1 Billion after tax dollars.

Just imagine how much would be up for grab by shareholders had all departments of QF pulled in the same direction.

Segmented Business Groups = Segmented Business Goals! :ugh::ugh: = Lost profit!

Shame Geoff Shame.

Shame David Shame.

[employes perspective]

to all concerned well done.as an ex H245 LAME i still can't believe that the LAME's grew a back bone, from the outside looking in it looks like you finally have a exec that are worth their weight in gold,unlike the last mob that let H245 close.
and finally to all the ex Qantas Lame's that didn't take up the Judest offer well done as you managed to give Qantas 1 final kick in the guts.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[griffin one]

Too bad Geoff couldnt go without one last knife turn for the lames, I see he said that due to the alaea industrial ation that the company is still reeling from the effects. I dont think its the lames that have crippled the company ,More like inept management decisions.
Enjoy the bonus and EBA backpay, lets all do it again real soon say Jan 2010

[ampclamp]

hi griffin, I could not care less about what GD says, he's gone and frankly from my observations the public have had enough of his moaning about everything and view his words with some skepticism.

It was reported yesterday that we'd agreed to the company's 3% offer.Again could not care less about what the news says, its what lands in my account every fortnight that matters.
We all know they made a big mess of this campaign and we largely got what we wanted.

We won a bit more , they lost big time, and both we, and they, know it.
That gives me quite a bit of satisfaction cos I know its $#!^^ing them so much.

[Short_Circuit]

YouTube - queen we are the champions (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sogKUx_q7ig)

YouTube - Crazy Frog - We are the champions (ding a dang dong) (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YCj-RyKCmHQ&feature=related) (with bump caps on)

Freddie says it all !!!:ok:

Till 2010 ;)

[redhawk37]

Yes Domo, well my spies tell me that Gregg was very strongly appossed to Dixon's stand against the engineers which also put him well offside with Clifford. Gregg felt that the Engineers claim was not unreasonable and was very vocal about it at the board meeting in New York and the damage it was doing to the company, especially given everything else that was going on. Its actually the main reason he got dropped for the big job in the end because Joyce, from the sidelines supported Dixon's postion. Of course it wasnt costing his business unit anything so it was a free hit for him, and typical of his divide and concour approach to almost everything. Most of the executive dont trust Joyce one little bit. The word is that the Headhunters actually recommended Gregg because he was a Qantas man, understood the culture of the main airline well, and a very keen strategic brain but Clifford didnt like the idea of somebody who would stand up to him.

Interesting times

[idydir]

There can be no reconciliation where there is no open warfare.

There must be a battle, a brave boisterous battle, with pennants waving and cannon roaring, before there can be peaceful treaties and enthusiastic shaking of hands.

[section 41]

Idydir,

When you use others material it is very rude not to quote the source from where you obtained the quotation.

in some circles it is known as plagerism. If you get the info from a website cite as below

Mary Elizabeth Braddon Lady Audley’s Secret, ch. 32 (1862).

Not trying to be smart but this post is not your work.

[Clipped]

Well how about this for a fitting tribute -

"When soldiers have been baptized in the fire of a battle-field, they have all one rank in my eyes."

Thanks Napoleon.

And

United we stand....Divided we fall. From this day forward we are No longer Dockies or Line, No longer Cones or Blackhanders, No longer Red or Blue teams, No longer Base or Terminal, we are LAMEs, of our trade, from our sections, from our bases, LAMEs first, categories last.


Thanks Spanner.

..."Blackhanders"? :confused:

[ElPerro]

"When soldiers have been baptized in the fire of a battle-field, they have all one rank in my eyes."

There must be a battle, a brave boisterous battle, with pennants waving and cannon roaring, before there can be peaceful treaties and enthusiastic shaking of hands.

Both your examples are an insult to those who have fought and/or died for their country. Be happy you've got your pay rise but let's not pretend you fought in a war where other humans where actually trying to kill you with bullets, rockets, missiles, bombs, shells, explosives, torpedoes, depth charges, mines, cannons, knives or bayonets. Those quotes were made regarding people who risked death, not a period of time without pay rise.

Don't draw parallels between people who serve their country at risk of life and limb and people who damage an Australian company and therefore the Australian economy for their own gain - whether you believe rightly or wrongly in what you did.

You withheld labour and caused hundreds of thousands of people travel delays, cost thousands of people money outside of QF , and caused financial loss to multiple businesses who had no beef in your battle for money. You did not leave your family for 9 months to several years. You did not venture into areas where people where motivated to kill or maim you.

A little perspective please - You work in a hangar on aircraft and safely return to your families and bed every night, there is no comparison between you and soldiers in battle and there never, ever will be. :=

Again, a little perspective on this please. Please Refresh yourself (http://www.pprune.org/d-g-general-aviation-questions/323353-these-real-heroes-anzac-day-lest-we-forget.html)

[Anulus Filler]

ElPerro,

Lighten up FFS!!!

[D.P. Gumby]

Elperro, after the event and all that has gone on you still run out this old Dixon crap. Where do you get off suggesting that we a liking ourselves to War Heroes, utter rubbish we are just using time honoured cliches ie To the winners go the spoils

We did not hurt anybody in our campaign. What we did and this has been stated on numerous occasions during this robust debate, is ACTUALLY TAKE OUR ROSTERED DAYS OFF. No More No Less. We never withdrew our labour, our enthusiasm, our sense of humour, just our willingness to do OVERTIME.

On the other hand Mr Dixon, Mr Brown and Uncle Tom Cobbly and All in Management kept reporting to the public lies of monumental proportions, sent Aircraft overseas for substandard maintenance costing $$$$$ and Harassed, Bullied and Intimidated it's work force in contradiction to the companies proticols damaging worker management relations which we may never recover from. This did more damage than any overtime ban. So don't come the Raw Prawn with us just say well done boys and gracefully disappear into obsecurity.

Finally, well done Steve, Paul all involved at Bexley and to all the Lame's who showed this dictatorial Management Enough Is Enough

Signing off till EBA 9

D.P. (My Brain Hurts) Gumby

[rudderless1]

Don't draw parallels between people who serve their country at risk of life and limb and people who damage an Australian company and therefore the Australian economy for their own gain - whether you believe rightly or wrongly in what you did.

You withheld labour and caused hundreds of thousands of people travel delays, cost thousands of people money outside of QF , and caused financial loss to multiple businesses who had no beef in your battle for money.

El Perro,
Have a cry, get over it. I think you are getting it way out of proportion.
Take it up with Dicko and co if there were losses or damage or can they do no wrong? This is all part of management so who's problem is that? We did our job but no more we are a free country. That's what is returned for your pay and no more. Life's a bitch, we must all play the sad game to receive a fair outcome. (except management of many companies who just dictate reward rather than earn it.)
I don't know many who would keeping going above and beyond for below standard inflation increases including yourself.
Maybe though you are in QF management, that would be a great location where you could live by your ethics and have no impact on others if you didn't do anything?
Supply and demand lives on. Can't have it both ways sunshine! ;)

[Clipped]

Take a chill pill ... we have every right to reflect on OUR battle, within the repressive regimes we fought.

There is NO parallel with those that lost lives. Only you are making such assumptions.

I've used words spoken by a great leader, ONLY. In OUR context.

You're either an uptight a##shole or a Qantas manager or both.

[Ultralights]

Blackhanders, AKA, Mechanics, also, sheetmetal guys are usually called Bashers.

[HotDog]

Clipped, I'm glad you are happy with the results but you must admit, this rah rah rhetoric is akin to waving the "little red book" of the Cultural Revolution. Getting old is mandatory, growing up is optional.:rolleyes:

[another superlame]

Well done to all.

I wonder if the new company management will see fit to turn E and M back into the world respected powerhouse that it once was.
Unfortunately it is only a shadow of its former self right now.
With a little bit of foresight and a reasonable injection of cash and not too mention a recruitment drive QF could rebuil and regain the vast experience they threw away.

I noticed they are recruiting for apprentices for 2009, it better be a huge intake to make up for the shortfall of AMEs and LAMEs they let go over the past few years.

[employes perspective]

i dought it superlame aren't they about to send another 3 or 4 aircraft to Asia for Heavy checks,your dispute did nothing to stop the outsourcing it was only for a pay rise.

[QF MAINT OUTSOURCED]

looks like the assc drop the ball on the outsourcing issue

[YOSHI]

It will take a huge change of attude from QF management to rectify the damage done to Engineering & Maintenance. This dispute only highlighted the contempt with which current management view the workers. Yes, the company needs to make a profit, but current plans seem to be too short sighted. At present this company does not offer attractive wages or career opportunities for young people who have the intellect and aptitude needed to properly maintain modern passenger aircraft.

This leaves the current ageing work force to try to keep things going, but a lot of them are just biding there time, until they can retire comfortably.

Go to the CASA website and look at the average age of a LAME in Australia, LAMEs over 40 years of age form the largest group. Interestingly there seems to be no info on numbers or ages of AMEs.

The future of QF E&M is hanging in the balance, it needs a huge injection of AMEs to keep it from falling over.................and that is just the beginning........

[domo]

Its like a rich man building a mansion, finding his budget cut he shrimps and saves on foundation and structure and spends his money on a high quality finish all gloss and shine

and hes happy and spends the money he saved on a holiday

six months later the tiles on the floor crack,he calls the tiller who tells him it not his fault the foundation has moved and the whole house is unsound


the easiest maintenance to outsource is heavy maintenance due to its high manhours you can save a lot of money.but if your own people are not doing the checks are they done well, if the person doing the check will never see the aircraft again will he care if its not perfect.

my point is we in line have to wear the mistakes of heavy so I believe it should be done inhouse, we never had all these incidences when 245 was open. Losing the 245 skillbase was a tragity for qantas engineering and all new engineers are poorer for not having passed through there

[another superlame]

Very true Domo about new engineers being poorer for not being able to spend time in Sydney heavy, they have also lost out with spending no time in EOC. The AMEs and LAMEs under 30 probably wouldnt know what the inside of an engine looks like due to the fact QF no longer sends hangar snorks to engine line

[Ngineer]

Losing the 245 skillbase was a tragity for qantas engineering and all new engineers are poorer for not having passed through there

Unfortunately when you have "managers" that are not engineers and have no concept of AA and CASA regs, or any aircraft engineering background/experience, mistakes like these will continue to be made with very little appreciation or care of the longer term impact.

The same can be said for the few "engineers", (sorry if I have offended anyone), left in management that obviously have their own best interests at heart when making some of the most rediculous decisions that they have made of late. What a massive step backwards.

The EGM of Qantas engineering constantly talks down Qantas engineering as being on par with any other maint organisation in the world. What experience does he have to back up his claims! None! What arrogance and ignorance. He obviously never saw some of the 3rd parties that we had in H245 for "D" checks when we used to do customer work. The difference in condition between our aircraft and theirs was like chalk and cheese. Does he think our safe reputation is by co-incidence?

What we lost in experience is now gone for good.

[idydir]

Quote:eek:

When you use others material it is very rude not to quote the source from where you obtained the quotation.

in some circles it is known as plagerism. If you get the info from a website cite as below

Mary Elizabeth Braddon Lady Audley’s Secret, ch. 32 (1862).

Not trying to be smart but this post is not your work.

Unquote:eek:


Now Now...... Section 41

In some circles the above quote would be called the work of a smartars_ :hmm:

In other circles it would be the work of a dickhe_d:D

Either way, you are correct, it is not my work, but then again, I never claimed authorship:=

So what are you on about?

I can't put my finger on it, but there is an apt saying.......

Oh yes.....something like......glass houses and thrown stones don't mix.:ugh:


P.S. When I grow up, i want to be able to google like "Section 41" :rolleyes:

[lamem]

The rumours of Big M's departure continue to grow. DC may have to cut him loose to save himself. The MACS seem to be getting ready to play musical chairs.

[idydir]

El Perro...:{

What about withholding a fair and equitable pay?

Is it right for LAMEs to suffer bastardry by the hands of fools and be begrudged pay parity with last year? (note...i do not say payrise)

After all the work is the same, if not more difficult!

Get a grip...

Jump off a cliff....


and you can quote me :ugh:

[Ngineer]

So, on another note, are our A-checks and foreign operator contracts coming back now that the O/T is back on?

[lamem]

The word is the customers are gone. Maybe SIO will do BA but that is it. They have no interest outside 'core business'. And lets face it they need every hand on deck at Base to cope with the workload.

[Ngineer]

What workload? The A-checks are gone for now (bar 767).The foreign operators were good revenue for SIO. Now that they are gone it seems that SIO staff are not well utilised. The foreigners helped plug gaps in their workload whilst generating income to cover QF's operational costs. Sending them across to our side is just wasting time and resources and is achieving very little. They could very easily cope taking them back in. Our previous management knew this because they had line and servicing experience. But once again decisions are being made by people without experience in this business.
There have been rumors that some of the other operators are contemplating dumping our recip maint contracts overseas. Also that they are considering pulling all contracts with QF, (not just engineering support, but catering, check-in, ramp, freight that is). This will result in many upset managers as it amounts to some considerable revenue.
It seems that alot of people are growing very annoyed at the moment.

[Ngineer]

I agree with the rumours of one of our manager's getting the boot. I have heard that a certain fleet manager is being eyed for the position.

[ampclamp]

word is that BA are going nuts and may dump QF from their faclities OS including lounges etc if we dont restart contract work.I think QF had some leeway with industrial clauses in contracts.
I believe they want qf to do the work but....
Unfortunately our fearless leaders have left us so demoralised and short of labour we are struggling to manage our own fleet.
OS tails were a good source of revenue for the INT engineering sections.
One could be forgiven for thinking QE managers are in the poo with how to get out of this.

Domo you are so right in your assertion of skills lost.Those skills gained by working heavy phase/base then line as desired were invaluable.
As a LAME with too many years in all areas in several work places I'll vouch for the system you lament the loss of.Many of these guys are some of the best LAME's I've worked with in skills, knowlege and attitude.
The attitude has taken a battering of late but with some new blood at the top and a consultative approach ie "how can we do this together" would go some way to achieving some reconciliation.With current practices and QE managers incumbent I doubt thats likely.

[The Black Panther]

Qantas is understood to be moving toward an order for the 365-seat 777-300ER as Boeing pulls out all stops to thwart a commitment to the rival A350-1000. ATWOnline understands that the order, if submitted to and ratified by QF's board, would be for 15 aircraft with deliveries as early as 2011. CEO Geoff Dixon yesterday confirmed the airline's interest in the -300ER. "We have aircraft orders of A$35 billion ($30 billion) in place and are in discussions with the manufacturers about options for the replacement of 747-400s not covered by our A380 order. This does include the 777-300ER, but no decision has been made and no proposal has been put to our board," he told this website in a statement. ATW Daily News (http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=13834)

[YOSHI]

Any update on when the new EBA comes into action?

[Clipped]

Not if, but when MH leaves us .. I'm wondering what would be your first action to attempt to resurrect our section? I'll start -

1. Get rid of the name ACS, we are Line or Base Maintenance. The work we do is unique, as is HM, thus specialising in one, has always served us well.
2. Gone are the 'mateys', replaced by leaders interested in aircraft maintenance.
3. Sincerely apolgise to all our customers and reinstate our services, with a discount, for our recent shortcomings. Our customers will always be an integral part of the work we do, either in, LM BM or HM.

Your thoughts, folks?

[Short_Circuit]

2. Gone are the 'mateys'
Not gone,

Shaken but not stirred! :rolleyes:

[another superlame]

There are too many Mateys and rock spiders in their own little clubs for them to be gone overnight.
The next problem is once these have gone how do you ensure that the next in line don't build themselves a matey empire.
Engineering from certain LHs and above is rotten to the bone.
It would take a monumental change to get rid of it and make sure it doesn't return.

Any ideas on how to achieve this?

[hadagutfull]

How to fix it.... recruit professionals from overseas to run the joint and pay them well. Guys who have a proven successful history in aircraft maintenance and who have the drive to see where opportunities exist to increase revenue, morale and good will.

Spend the money to train AMES and LAMES on type so we have maximum coverage avail with minimum supervision (and a career path.)

Establish a customer engineering group to handle client airlines and reap maximum revenue. Some extra simple work ie when we did SIA cargo inspections made us a fortune.

Have manpower and parts preloaded for OSIP...and defects. MCC should have the resources to trouble shoot well before mel dates due and have a fix ready instead of relying on the guys to shotgun just to restart the mel clock. How many times have we changed the same part 2 or 3 times cause we dont have the time to troubleshoot and look at history (yes, i know... follow the fim etc, but its not always reliable)

Modify the PPM and AMM to allow for streamlining... so that the guys in line can for example, just kill power to open the cowls (767), instead of locking out leading edges, reversers etc etc... All takes time. which equals dollars

Have the balls to tell these corporate safety people to not treat us like we have had a lobotomy... everything we do in life has an element of risk.... knowing the risk and using common sense and experience will ensure a safe working environment. All these bulletins and read and signs etc.... Next thing you will have me wearing a harness next time i jump on my bathroom scales....

Get rid of this bull about Qantas being our customer, you are my customer, i charge you , you charge me, we charge them, supply chain , bidding for work on our own fleet, .... this segmentation is a cancer... we all work for Qantas.

Get rid of this thing called ACS.... it means nothing. Its down right disrespectful to our profession. It is a name made up by non hands on people to make them fit into the equation.... What about..... "Qantas Engineering- base, line, heavy and support. Covers the lot.

Give us the tools and the leadership to do what we do best and will deliver an on time and quality product every time....

I guess that should fix things a bit.....

[domo]

How to fix it.... recruit professionals from overseas to run the joint

No lets get an insider who knows the culture the last thing we need is an outsider who knows jack about us

do interviews at all levels ame, lame and if there is talent train them to management levels

[Syd eng]

In Sydney get rid of all these 2 & 3ic suck holes, they are destroying the place! Get leaders that can lead, not just follow.

[YOSHI]

ACS Sat. night shift;

DMM; actor!

Two x Formen; actors!

Boeing Leading Hands (8 of); actors!

And I don't think any of them were in the correct Union for the job.

What is it like in your area?

Does this indicate that there is a Carreer Path, just that it's blocked (for budget purposes).

[Bumpfoh]

What is it like in your area?

Does this indicate that there is a Carreer Path, just that it's blocked (for budget purposes).

Not so much the prevalence of actors but the supervision installed in recent times are either YES MEN or have no f@#$in idea how to run the shift or both.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

WRT to career path (read training) the old excuse was "not until the EBA dispute is resolved. So now I'm waiting for the no because of "budget pruposes" spin to start as well.
Even then you will probably need to be in the "club" or at least be the flavour of the month to get a gig.:yuk::yuk:

[Short_Circuit]

Even then you will probably need to be in the "club" or at least be the flavour of the month to get a gig.

No truer words we ever spoken.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

All, the last few posts have been great to read, particularly the one from hadagutful. Can you all keep posting these common sense solutions for problems so we can follow them up when we attend behind the scenes meetings. I like this idea best -

Get rid of this thing called ACS.... it means nothing. Its down right disrespectful to our profession. It is a name made up by non hands on people to make them fit into the equation.... What about..... "Qantas Engineering- base, line, heavy and support. Covers the lot.

A notice will be out today and it is Line Maintenance. Lets keep talking our language, not that of accuntants and artists.

[Ngineer]

1/ We need managers who understand our business, and will speak up when decisions are made that have negative impacts.

2/ Sack all the lighthouse group.

3/ Bring the planners back into the sections. We have lost continuity with them all. They can no longer accurately account for manpower or workload, and are not as easily available when extra manpower needs to be organised.

4/ Kill the precinct and keep specialised staff in the relevant sections. It is pointless sending a base Avionics guy (for example) to transit an aircraft at the domestics. They are not experienced to do this. Management just don't get this because they are not engineers. If we have Licence issues then train more people rather than trying to plug 15 holes with 10 fingers.

5/ Sort out this EASA training crap so that Avionics guys can continue to exercise their expertise, and Eng A/F, in the relevant categories and ATA chapters. The current rules are a cost-cutting farce and destroys what made our business so successful and safe.

6/ Rebuild morale and remuneration or pretty soon their will be no-one left here.

7/ A shake-up of our reporting system. Form 500's and Cross reports are usually sent back to the same dept for investigation that caused the quality lapse.

8/ Re-introduce CAR214 training. I can't remember the last read & sign or class room training for a difference I have seen on an aircraft.


These are just a few ideas that immediately come to mind.

[Big Unit]

Ngineer.
Whilst i agree with most of your points, with regards to:

It is pointless sending a base Avionics guy (for example) to transit an aircraft at the domestics

Dont kid yourself bud.

[Ngineer]

Ouch! Sorry dude, you obviously have had some line experience:ok:

OK what I meant was that I do not know of many Avionic LAME's within base that could fill out fuel sheets, carry out a walk-around, tell if a tire is within limits, etc etc, the sort of thing required on a line. (And framies carrying out an electrical check). Every section where I have worked it has taken time to adjust. And likewise, you always notice the "new guy" in the workplace and the settling in period that he usually goes through.

The notion that a LAME can walk into a different work environment, without previous experience there, and competantly carry out his duties as efficiently as everyone else there is false. I am sorry if I was too general in my previous points.

[F.O.G.]

Ngineer,
Spot on, stay in one place for a few years and the other places are VERY differnet kettles of fish.
There's no doubt any of us could drop in and get the job done, whether we would do it correctly, timely, legally etc without about a week of reading first is, however, doubtful.

lets face it, seems if you go away for a few years even removing chocks can be an insurmountable hurdle!!


As for the comments about increasing staff numbers, my fear is that the only airline looking to increase numbers is VBA, and they maybe are looking to expand in SYD due to rumours they've heard coming from upper QE management who are still sadly deluded about the number of LAME's they need!

Good on VBA, at last we will have an alternate choice of reasonable scale in SYD!!

[thosecotos]

As for the comments about increasing staff numbers, my fear is that the only airline looking to increase numbers is VBA, and they maybe are looking to expand in SYD due to rumours they've heard coming from upper QE management who are still sadly deluded about the number of LAME's they need!

Good on VBA, at last we will have an alternate choice of reasonable scale in SYD!!

Would be interested to know your source on this one? Where are we going to expand to, we have very, very few people licensed on anything other than what we already fly? Maybe you need to send a resume to JHAS, they are apparently looking to get a hold in SYD with no licences to do it.

Only if we can somehow grab VAUS777 maintenance are we likely to 'expand', which is now being talked of as remotely possible...and for what it's worth I truly doubt VB would listen to any rumours coming from upper QE management anyway, whatever they might be.

[hadagutfull]

Ngineer,
I agree...
There are that many local area procedures these days, only those familiar with the area should work there...
There is also so much in the way of equipment that needs prior training etc.. that someone could illegally use something they think they can use... irrelevant if they used it 10 years ago.
Same said for a base guy who goes to SIO and works a day stopper... he has to get a power unit.. does he use his rover or have to go get a tug...
SIO procedure.. go get the tug,
Can someone go to the terminal and work and grab a cordless headset... no! ... got to be trained.:confused:
on another note:
I feel sorry for these SIO guys being farmed out to who ever needs them... they just dumped in an unfamiliar environment and most times are left to fend for themselves.
Guess they are the remnants of a buggery campaign.. someone should tell their boss the dispute is over and get them back on the other operators.:D

[hi-speed tape]

Well said hadagutfull.
Most mornings a whole crew of guys from SIO can be seen driving around the airport trying to find out where they should be and what they should be doing.
Instead, why are they not arriving working/transiting all the early arriving other operators such as BA, Thai, Korean, Vietnam, Canadian, JAL, Malaysian, etc, etc. Which would of course put lots of cash (which is all management care about) into the QE coffers !!!
And of course the thing that gets the most laughs most mornings is seeing the guys sitting in their cars trying to get to the base, but can't, because Asiana is sitting off bay blocking the roadway !!!!:D
More donuts anyone ?????

[Ngineer]

Totally agree with the last few posts.

With respect to losing customer contracts, the only good that may come of this would be to open up the labor market in Sydney for LAME's. This may ultimately lead to better pay and conditions & training over the next 4-5 years with the current skills shortage.

There was also mention of Virgin Airlines opening a maint base in Syd with the creation of 1000 jobs. Apparently an article in Tuesday's Financial Review. Good on 'em for having the insight to grow and invest in their business.

[F.O.G.]

thosecotos, here 'tis

Virgin Blue to expand in Sydney - Breaking News - National - Breaking News (http://news.smh.com.au/national/virgin-blue-to-expand-in-sydney-20080902-47o5.html)

[Ngineer]

Maybe they will become the airline that Qantas should have been.

[thosecotos]

thosecotos, here 'tis

Virgin Blue to expand in Sydney - Breaking News - National - Breaking News (http://news.smh.com.au/national/virgin-blue-to-expand-in-sydney-20080902-47o5.html)


It's good news there, and even from the inside we hope that maintenance gets it's share of the capital injection - there are still no guarantees though. Feelings currently mixed with the guarded excitement of the possibly of eventually bringing the 777 inhouse, offsetting the concern that tarmac change is currently happening. If it goes ahead, recruitment will be inevitable (unless they just take AMSA guys like they did when absorbing Jetcare) so you guys, and us, really will have something to get interested in for a change.

Maybe they will become the airline that Qantas should have been

Engineering wise they already are.... LAME free tarmacs, undeniable embrace of Part 66 licencing, no butchering SB's to airlinise them, and internal assurances that they have no desire to bring heavy maintenance in house.... to name a few.

Overall a happy workforce though, which does make a difference - so long as they stay in the black, it's happily ever after for people like me.

[Ngineer]

On second thoughts, maybe not.

[ampclamp]

I note that the lame's have been blamed for qantas' woeful on time performance of late.One could draw that conclusion however being the narcy contrarian I am, I would like to say we should be thanked for keeping them on time for years under wonderful "leadership" whilst working lots of O/T!!

So as soon as we stopped the O/T for a few months we get the blame, not them for not for their lack of nous.Should be thanked for hi-lighting the bloody big holes that are developing.

On time performance and safety is not God's gift to Qantas and does not just happen by accident.

Requires skills, training, spare parts (somewhere in the same country), teamwork , leadership, accountability (by all), co-operation between all departments just to mention a few requirements.

Are Qantas missing any of the above and if so what are the consequences??
Hmmm??? Not a difficult question that.

[ElPerro]

With respect to losing customer contracts, the only good that may come of this would be to open up the labor market in Sydney for LAME's. This may ultimately lead to better pay and conditions & training over the next 4-5 years with the current skills shortage.

There was also mention of Virgin Airlines opening a maint base in Syd with the creation of 1000 jobs. Apparently an article in Tuesday's Financial Review. Good on 'em for having the insight to grow and invest in their business.

Of course striking, forcing EBA's etc helped "open up the Labor (sic) market".

Excellent idea. Open the market up - no need for strikes. Just move to who pays you more. Who'd have thunk it.

What you mean from all your posts is closed shop for your work location (QF - i.e. no overseas maint, no hiring people on wage levels they are happy with if it's below yours, force the company to pay more - no-one should have to quit) , however you should be allowed to freely move to where ever is paying the most.

Personally I think that if you strike for a given wage level, and get it you should be forced to work for the company under the terms of the EBA for it's duration. Fair is fair. You took away the companies right to accept labour from outside of the company, you should have to sign up to not providing labour outside the company for the same term. If you do then you should pay a financial penalty to QF.

Surely you can see the hypocrisy in your logic. (hmm.. I doubt you will) . The above is obviously tongue in cheek. You should be allowed to move to what ever company you want on terms you individually are happy with , and QF should be allowed to hire whoever they want, on the terms that individual is happy with.

(Anyway, what's this got to do with the QF EBA? Surely time for a new thread to address many of these issues)

[kotoyebe]

mmm...joined in Jul 08...I wonder if we found the MIA Pass-a-frog?

[Clipped]

Spoken with Qantas managerial gusto - and thus we find ourselves in this predicament.

You seem to want to keep up the fight .. so, how shall i say it? .. GO FOR IT!

[The Black Panther]

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/09/08/315507/australias-safety-watchdog-issues-recommendations-to.html

and "examine whether the existing lines of authority and control over maintenance within the airline are delivering the best possible outcomes".

The profit before schedule, before safety, attitude has finally caught up with them. The say one thing publicly but do another privately we have seen in the last 5 years. The cost cutting, the greedy LAME accusation, the we know best, the disengagement, the dissemination, the world's cheapest practice is best. Lets hope we see a change in relationship over the next generation on engineering management. Fortunately we didn't reach the hull loss scenario but reached a point where the regulator's and the public's eye is well and truly focused on the industry many of us have devoted our working careers to. This business model didn't work. It's delivered alright but not what senior management expect...customers walking away and a public distaste for a once revered airline.

"I've been flying Qantas for years but these days they are always late and they've got the worst record," he said.
"I'm at the point where I'm thinking I'm going to fly with someone else.
"A plane needs to fall out of the sky before they will fix anything as far as I am concerned."
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4685558a12.html

Will the the old managers change there ways or will Mr C sweep out those who failed to see through the smoke of destruction?

Somehow I think the "buggery campaign" is still being distributed through management memo's.

My six years to retirement can't come quick enough!

[Short_Circuit]

D Cox is banging on about the engineers again. When will the BUGGERY CAMPAIGN stop?

To the Fed Sec, to restore some of the work ethics at SYD base, simply bring the Bus Boys back to the crews and do some training on A330's.

How simple, problem solved, Oh cr@p, would have to amalgamate Boeing & Bus business.

Fine, keep your A380 sh!t but restore normality to the real world of Base Maintenance!!!!! :ok:

How many segmented groups do you want till it fails completely !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

(or is it already tooooooo late)

[The Black Panther]

Khoa Huynh catches Qantas out | Herald Sun (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24327014-664,00.html)

"Qantas is certainly not being weakened by international competition. In fact, the international air transport market has grown and Qantas has taken advantage of that growth," the study adds.
The paper, which draws on recognised data, reveals that Qantas (http://www.qantas.com.au/) now controls 71 per cent of the trans-Pacific market.
Its 350-seat 747 Boeings (http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747family/) continue to fly 82 per cent full on the route.
The data mounts a strong case for the Federal Government (http://www.australia.gov.au/) to allow another carrier to operate the lucrative route.
The 22-year-old Mr Huynh's evidence contrasts markedly with Federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese's (http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/member.asp?id=R36)recent decision not to open open the route to new competition.
In his study Mr Huynh found that Qantas commands double-digit fare premiums on the Pacific compared with what it earns on Kangaroo route services to London.
He also points out that Qantas reaps a higher yield from business class sales on the US route than Singapore Airlines (http://www.singaporeair.com/) can from selling a first class fare in the super luxury section of an A380 jumbo from Sydney to London.

[Syd eng]

Have heard stories of the 330 crews coming under H's management as big K only wants his A380 dream team to manage.

[another superlame]

Hasn't Big K Md been given the @rse yet. It would be a great day to see him go and then watch the infighting amongst his underlings as they lose their sweeteners and jollies.

I have said it before, E and M management needs to be gutted from Leading Hand and above. Then fill the places with the help of an outside HR firm to try and eliminate the jobs for the boys.

How is Robbo going anyway?

[lordofthewings]

u dont want any form of HR having anything to do with it, they are just as useless.

[Clipped]

Heard that there was a Manager's meeting in SYD recently. Anyone got any goss on what might have transpired?

[The Black Panther]

Manager's meeting in SYD recently. Anyone got any goss on what might have transpired? A lot of pud pulling.
Plans to continue buggery campaign
Continued plans to negate any customer aircraft contracts
Plans to continue buggery campaign
Continued plans to get more aircraft serviced by the the cheeeaapest ! MRO we can find as soon as the media find another story to follow. (considering Sarah Palin and her WW III statement may help our cause)
Plans to continue buggery campaign
Continued plans not to make any decisions on rosters, redundancy or a future model for HM engineering beyond next week.
Plans to continue buggery campaign
Continued plans provide inferior IT support for all engineering.
Keep pi$$ing our customers off, reduce revenues we go backwards on income statement, slip third party work to JH and co. Keep pi$$ing off employees, keep kicking heads. Ban all employee-engagement text books from ACS.
Plans to continue buggery campaign
Eventually show how engineering is just a losing cause. Segment the business and sell it. De-unionise the industry and wait for the thud!
Continue to offer all CASA senior officials free tickets, Capt's club membership and a free course on cartel trading in USA. (revised edition).
Did I say we voted to continue the buggery campaign?

Oh I almost forgot. We decided on an inaugural award called the Buggery Cup. It will be awarded to the MACS with the best buggery record in any one year. I hope I can win. I will be doing my best I know that.

[NAS1801]

Heard that the nasally well endowed one up in pineapple land has a nice impression of Mr Dixon's Julius Marlow on his behind for not providing enough LAME's in Hong Kong, Singapore and Manila for the A330 and 767 outsourced aircraft.

It appears some crews in his empire are running at a strength of one LAME to 10 non-LAME's comprised of several contractors, a few apprentices and an AME if they are lucky. Can't afford to send any more LAME's O/S.

Contractors coming, most with very little to no large jet aircraft experience. Get trained up, have the crews running around checking their work and fixing their stuff ups for several months then leave. The cycle begins again.

How this can be an efficient way to run a HM operation, I don't know.

Could it be that there are no AME's out there willing to work for the scraps of senior managements gourmet remunerations? Contractors are all they can they can attract?

[Ngineer]

Anyone got any goss on what might have transpired?

Word on the street is that management want to keep 'A' checks overseas and slowly wind down base maint. It will either be team airbus or team boeing. They will also keep SIT contracts away by telling other operators that we still haven't signed off on the EBA. Hope is that our customers will eventualy give up and go elsewhere.

But in the grand scheme of things, I think their days left in management are coming to an end sooner than they may think, and these plans may not get enough time to materialise, before the whole joint collapses into a giant s*!t heap.:}

[The Black Panther]

Qantas says it is disappointed that long-haul pilots have voted against the airline's most recent pay proposal.
A majority of members of the Australian and International Pilots Association who took part in the vote on Friday were against the offer.
A spokeswoman for Qantas says the airline believed it had reached an in-priniciple agreement with pilots after 18 months of negotiations.Qantas pilots reject pay plan - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/15/2364290.htm?section=justin)

[Ngineer]

I heard there maybe a few ex-ALITALIA piltos lookig for work.

[Syd eng]

Any word on how long before the EBA is approved by the government?

[ampclamp]

There is a timetable on the intranet regarding the eba backpay etc.Cant remember the exact dates but 14th Oct rings a bell for application of the new grades and rates, so I guess the pay period following that.Super changes available in November.Pls chk the dates as I said I'm not sure of the above.
I believe the eba has been made effective in the last few days.

[QF94]

Here's a story from yesterday's Sydney Morning Herald about a cover-up by senior QF management and editing reports by engineers.

This is just a snippet:


SENIOR management at Qantas have been accused of covering up a serious maintenance flaw on a Boeing 747-400 by pressuring an engineer to change his finding that a crack in the jet's frame had been painted over.
The original safety report, completed after a check on the aircraft at Qantas's heavy maintenance base at Melbourne's Avalon Airport in May, and obtained by the Herald, shows that an engineer found a crack that "appears to have been previously covered over with sealant and paint".


The airline investigated the matter and found the report had been altered but that this was "acceptable practice" because it found "no evidence" the crack had been painted over.
"The fact that the management requested the information to be changed in a Qantas Engineering report is an acceptable practice and the prerogative of management," the report says.
The airline's head of engineering and maintenance, David Cox, said in a statement yesterday there was "no issue". "We are more than confident in our processes and run an open and transparent operation. It is a shame that some people are not able to abide by the umpire's decision."
However, engineers from the Avalon base are adamant that the crack had been painted over.
"The part should have been quarantined until a proper investigation into the painting over took place, but that didn't happen. It basically sat in the manager's office," a Qantas engineer, who asked not to be named, told the Herald.
A spokesman for the Civil Aviation Safety Authority said it was not clear "whether the crack had developed underneath the paint or whether it was painted over".

I would not expect an internal investigation to be unfavourable toward QANTAS management, and I wouldn't expect CASA to be any better.

One would have thought that if a crack "developed" underneath the paint, the paint/sealant above it would be cracked. If the paint is not cracked/damaged, then this would most likely indicate that it has been painted over or "covered up" as the article suggests. Typical of CASA to be not clear about this issue, as it may jeapordise QF's business. I guess passenger and the general public safety is nothing to worry about, and the pesky engineers should not be bothering management with problems ageing aircraft. This may cloud the arrival of the A380 and and dampen the toss session that will take place with all of the office staff oohhing and aahhing at the big aeroplane arriving at SYD later this morning.

Anyway, to anyone who's interested in the article, here's the link:

Qantas accused of safety cover-up - Travel - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/travel/qantas-accused-of-safety-coverup/2008/09/19/1221331206969.html)

[Elton Jon]

You may recall this term used by management during the buggery campaign (BC) to forgo all customer contracts on the eastern seaboard.
It would appear these business guru's are in a legal bindi patch.

For those that haven't heard the term before Force Majeure is legal jargon.
Force Majeure
8.1 The company is not liable for any failure in performance of any obligations under the contract caused by factors outside its control. In the event of such failure, the company may terminate the contract without liability to the customer.This option worked find during BC however since EBA settlement MACS's around the country have hinted at their desire to only have profitable contracts. Thus the transfer of labour from Int ramps to base maintenance etc to attend outstanding OSIP and repairs. Contracts supported by overtime due to misaligned rosters or license coverage would go and only profitable contracts kept. Good in theory but legally, it has it's problems.

Technically Force Majeure is over. The dispute is no longer, no more overtime bans and no more hindrance. That is from the union side, as we all know the BC continues on like a Spanish Armada.

So why are we not working the contracts and getting back to earning 3rd party revenue? ACS have a backlog of maintenance we know and can see that. They need available manpower. If ACS chose which customers they operated the complement of contract owners who were told "we can't (don't want to) do your aircraft" would have a field day.."Breach of contract" $$$$

We all know the truth. Three blokes hanging off a spanner doesn't make the job faster. It's paperwork, time on the ground, inventories etc and DC and MH in their wisdom to curtail Int customer contracts is just another revenue burning decision to come out of head office.

We've seen them waste 150m-200m on BC to save 2-3m in wage expense. We've seen them send aircraft to cheap MRO's only to spend $$$$'s getting them back to Aust standards after their return to service.

If the past performance of these inept business minded numskulls is any guide we will be 'productive time lost' for several months. At least until all backlog maintenance is cleared or unwanted contracts have lapsed. Whether ACS wants commercial relationships with other operators who knows. It's a global market and we are a small international operator, a reasonable person may consider commercial relationships important considering the remoteness of our markets.

Funny attitude. We went from overtime bans during the BC, now with work to be done they have created a ACS overtime ban to save money. Until this whole management is swept out, engineering will continue to be a inefficient, low moral, immovable cost burden for the parent company. One day senior corporate management will realise that engineering did not have a history like we have seen in the last 3 years. They are embarrassing.

[division1]

Hmm, a backlog of osip, that might be the case in main base.
Up in the sunny state the guys are busy polishing grease guns
while the other operators own lames, amsa, jhas and anyone
with a ute service our customer aircraft.

[hewlett]

Well put Div 1.Methinks not only has the ball been dropped,it is now lost.

[kotoyebe]

This may cloud the arrival of the A380 and and dampen the toss session that will take place with all of the office staff oohhing and aahhing at the big aeroplane arriving at SYD later this morning.

Gee, 94. Some of those tossers actually support the engineers and are right behind you. Thanks for tarring us all with the same brush.

[another superlame]

Don't tell me this thread has run out of puff already.

No stamina you young blokes.

[YOSHI]

Heard that on Sunday when the A380 arrived in Syd that no one in Base even looked up from their Cornflakes in the Smoko Room to see it land!

I think it will take a long time for the effects of the past few months to be resolved. It will have to start with a few heads rolling, from DC and MH to even maybe some other bad boy managers.

Money alone will not fix the mess that this management has created. It will take some fresh faces in the right places, and with the right attitude to getting the place back to where it should be.

Qantas Engineering (the name should never have been changed!) should be turned back into the efficient, well run organisation it once was. This I feel cannot happen when the workforce does not trust it's leaders.

[Short_Circuit]

Heard that on Sunday when the A380 arrived in Syd that no one in Base even looked up from their Cornflakes in the Smoko Room to see it land!


Sad, but true! :uhoh:

[SpannerTwister]

Murray's gone !!! Gavin Harris is the new boss !!!


SpannerTwister

[Clipped]

A Harris OUT and a Harris IN .. Now what?

[Nasty Piece of Work]

Fk a loser out and a loser in.....................

[QF22]

Couldn't organise a pizz-up in a brewery !

He didn't get the nickname "The F#$%wit" for nothing !

Heaven help Line Maintenance !

[Syd eng]

Base Maintenance is now under the same management as Heavy Maint, Tech Training and Apprentice Training . David Hyland is the Manager now.

[Long Bay Mauler]

Typical

More " Harrisment" from management....:ok:

[chksatis]

Exactly what needed to happen, there needs to be segradation between base and line to increase accountabilty and get reliability back in the fleet. Merging heavy and base is a good idea, so hopefully they can get the A and Super A chks back to Sydney where the experiance and knowledge is. M had to go and all his henchmen will be going with him, not to far away, look what happened as soon as M started with ACS he cleaned it out, GH will be doin the same.

[another superlame]

Is Muzza still with Qf or have they seen their error and p1ssed him off for good.

[Redstone]

M has gone to "persue other interests"

Is "segradation" a real word??????