The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

[Kerosine]

Kerosine,

Yes! The interview was quite demanding but I got through, so Im going to phase 4 on the 22nd... congratulations to you, when are you going to phase 4?

/Mattias

Good to hear from you Mattias, glad you got through! Mine is on the 22nd too, really excited now, just want to get it over and done with so I can start getting ready for going.

[sjogren]

Glad to hear from you too!
At what time do you have your simulator assessment on the 22nd?
I was told to be there at 07.00 for a 08.00 start on the sim.

Cant wait...:)

[Kerosine]

Glad to hear from you too!
At what time do you have your simulator assessment on the 22nd?
I was told to be there at 07.00 for a 08.00 start on the sim.

Cant wait...:)

Mattias I'll post on this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=252747&page=11)..

[Exhibitz]

Good luck getting in clearways first time! They're on complete overload atm, a new block is nearly finished with enough for 2-3 more CPs I believe but even still, it's a push! You will probs end up in temp accom for the first month or so. I'm leaving tommorrow (CP61) and we're going to dey street for 4 weeks then transferring to Clearways when it's freed up a bit. Good luck guys, and see you out there!

[woskam]

Exhibitz - I've heard from friends out there at the minute that what you say is very much the case. They were in Peachgrove for about a month before moving to Clearways. Must admit, I'm very jealous of the fact you're going out there tomorrow. I'm on CP65 and the thought of another four months here is killing me. Think of me sitting at my desk revising for uni exams while you're getting hammered in a bar at Heathrow tomorrow :ok:

[Jenny149]

Can someone tell me after the phase 4 sim test are you told straight away if you have passed or do you get a phone call or e-mail?

[AdamLT]

is anybody on phase 3 on june 3rd??

[Jenny149]

Thanks for that!! I passed my phase 3 yesterday and I am booked in for phase 4 on the 15th May:ok:

[woskam]

Well done Jenny, and best of luck for P4!

DJ - at least you and poss had a car to sit in while you got excited! I was sat on a train surrounded by the commuter crowd who didn't take kindly to my excited squeals of delight!

[poss]

We were in sainsburys having a coffee... later on we got in the car and Ollie had to endure our shouts of joy :p. As long as you have your mobile on you and the mobile number is in your application you will receive a phone call that evening. Good luck.

[CapCon]

Haha yeah I think you and dj made me temporarily deaf that afternoon! As has already been said, they will try to call you the same day. I'm glad they didn't call while I was driving, chances were that I would have crashed :ok:

[Jenny149]

Thanks for that!! I passed my phase 3 yesterday and I am booked in for phase 4 on the 15th May:ok:

[Vbells]

I have Phase 4 on 15 May too - see you there :)

[Kerosine]

Remember to keep meet dates etc to the social thread, mods will have a fit :ok:

Assuming it's an 'average' group size, does anyone know what the latest is you are likely to finish on Phase 4? I need a rough idea for when to book a return train ticket; I've emailed CTC but nothing yet!

Also, how many were there on your Phase 4?

[woskam]

Kerosine - all depends what time you're booked in for. I was asked to arrive for 11am and was told we'd all be done by 3pm. However, I asked if I could do my sim ride first and was in a taxi back to the train station by 1:15.

Also, there were three of us in my group, and I believe this is a fairly standard number.

[antes56]

ANyone knows how does it works when you complete the enrollment?..they say you have to deposit £60k and when you finish they will give them back??
IS it that correct?

[poss]

A load of old tosh....

[Streety]

You deposit a 60k cash bond as well as 5k for your foundation course. At the end of the training CTC will give you 30k of this back and once assigned to an airline they will pay it off monthly.

Suggest you go through the paperwork again and read it properly if you're expecting to get 30k cash-back at the end of the course fella, because otherwise you're going to be sorely disappointed....

[Kerosine]

CTC will 'secure' £30,000. This means if you fail the course early on, CTC will pay up to £30,000 of the remaining money owed to the flying school. This means you will be liable for the other £30,000 of debt from the time you sign the papers in the bank.

If you fail later on in the course when CTC deemed you to have had your 60 grands worth, they could ask for the other 30K.

The £60K loan, plus any other loan is, to be paid back, in full, with interest, over a 7 year period after employment.

Your salary upon starting is reduced by £1000 per month to pay back your loan from source.

£12K x 7 years = £84K*

Remember this is not a sponsored course; you are offered preferential financial arrangments with very strong chance of employment!

*edit: I'm sure it's not this figure to the penny but a rough estimate

[poss]

Yes the above is what I meant, not that CTC directly give you 30k... that would be rather silly. Sorry work sidetracked me and I very poorly worded explanation - busy day lol. :ugh:

[Kerosine]

Poss if you're anything like me your head will be swimming in information:ok:

If I DO pass stage 4, I'm going to put together a mother load of useful and up to date information. Bit more than what's on the FAQss on CTC's site at least, I think it's important to make sure information is easily available.

That being said if I don't get in you can all go to hell :ok: lol

[belongins]

Anybody having phase 2 on the 4th June?

[sjogren]

Im going to P4 at CTC Nursling on the 22nd of may but havent booked any accommodation yet. Does anyone have any suggestion?

Thanks!

[xbilz]

I posted this question a few weeks ago but had only 1 reply. Guys, can you please help as to what subjects/topics of physics and maths are involved in phase2 test? I have gone through the forum but did not find the answer I am looking for .. the topics please !

Cheers !

[Streety]

Guys, can you please help as to what subjects/topics of physics and maths are involved in phase2 test? I have gone through the forum but did not find the answer I am looking for

Then look harder. The answers are all in here. But as a starter for ten, addition, subtraction, multiplication and division (whole numbers and decimals). That's pretty much it; no more, no less.

[sjogren]

Chelsce,

Thank you for your answer. Yes, I received a pdf file attached to the mail, but there are no accommodations recommended for Nursling so I sent CTC an email asking for suggestions and got the following ones:

Lyndhurst Park Hotel (£54 B&B -this is approximately twenty minutes by taxi away)
Dibden Manor (£45 B&B - approximately fifteen minutes by taxi)

I am wondering if anyone knows about any cheaper place to stay for one night?

Cheers

[Streety]

The Holiday Inn Southampton West on the roundabout off J1 of the M271 might be cheaper. It's 2 mins drive from the Nursing Training Centre.

Edit:

Just looked it up - £75 for the night of the 21st May, so might actually be cheaper to stay a bit further afield and get the taxi instead.

[Kerosine]

There aren't any suggested for Nursling. I received and email from CTC saying there's a travel lodge or something quite close for £65.

I'm looking for a little B&B/Guesthouse.. Will let you know Mattias.

[belongins]

@Chelsce
"u should have this information when u get the booking, usually comes as some form of pdf file that attaches to the info email, i didnt stay anywhere so cant advise further then that"

All I got is to bring is the following?
No information regarding what will actually happen on the day or what to prep for.....

You are required to bring with you to the assessment day:

- all academic qualification certificates listed on your application. These must be the original copies of the certificates. All certificates will be checked during your assessment day and incorrectly recorded grades on your application may result in failure to pass to the next phase of selection. Please take all certificates out of folders, wallets or frames prior to handing them in on arrival.

You also need to ensure that you bring your:

- Passport
- Basic Disclosure (if you hold one)
- Class 1 medical certificate(if you hold one)
- A Passport size photo


What is a 'basic disclosure?'

[Streety]

Basic Disclosure is a Criminal Record Check to show CTC that you'll be able to obtain an airside pass when you complete training.

[Potential]

A basic disclosure is the most basic form of criminal record check you can have done. For some reason it's called Disclosure Scotland, but it is valid for all UK residents. For more information and online application see here: http://www.disclosurescotland.co.uk/. From memory it costs £20.

[woskam]

A BASIC disclosure is a very basic criminal record check that simply highlights any cautions or convictions you have to your name that you still have to disclose (i.e that are not 'spent').

Stick 'disclosure scotland' into google or similar and you'll get all you need.

*Or follow the link posted by Potential*

[belongins]

Sweet just noticed that via Google
I have the most hardcore of all CRB checks already :)

Still going back to my orig post i have no PDF from CTC telling me what to expect on my P2 day - just ahve to go on the info supplied on PPrune by you wonderful people :)

[Kerosine]

Remember you do not need a BASIC disclosure to pass the CTC selection. On your application for CTC it asks:

Due to the nature of this position, we will be required to carry out certain security checks on you.
The following is part of that process and must be answered.
Have you any reason to believe that you would not be acceptable if a security check were made on you?
Yes
No

If you answered yes, please specify.
____________________________________________________________ ________

If when you come to have the CRB (Criminal Records Bereau) check you are found to have withheld this information, I can't imagine they wold be best pleased.

[woskam]

On the topic of BASIC disclosures, has anybody applied for one and received it? If so, how long did it take? I applied for mine nearly two weeks ago and I've had nothing yet!

[Kerosine]

Anything to worry about woskam? :hmm: :}

[woskam]

Haha not that I know of! I just assumed (because of my lack of criminal activity) they'd get it done and sent out pretty quickly.

[Gar]

woksam: From the FAQs on the Disclosure Scotland website:


2.4: How long does it take to get my BASIC Disclosure
A: If you have a clear criminal history then we will always get back to you within 7 days. If you have not received your certificate within 7 days then we are doing further investigation into past convictions we have found. These convictions are likely to impede in your ability to gain entry to any sort of flight training programme.
:p

I got mine in around 14-21 days mate - nothing to worry about.

[woskam]

Gar, that had me worried a little then! I can't believe they write that on their website! Cheers for the info though :ok:

[Gar]

Just for the avoidance of doubt of anyone looking in - I made up that FAQ and response!

[woskam]

You :mad: haha!

[Ruthie21]

Hi, just wondering if anybody knows what its like to take your partner out to new zealand with you? Are CTC accepting of this?

[carlortega]

Hi, just wondering if anybody knows what its like to take your partner out to new zealand with you? Are CTC accepting of this?

During my phase 2/3 one of the CTC pilots said he had taken his spouse out there for a month, so guess it's ok.

In the introduction the CTC lady gave us, she said that you can do this, but it can be pretty boring for spouse if she/he can't find work, and you as a cadet pilot haven't much free time - lot's of study / flying at a moments notice etc.

[poss]

Ruth is the partner of a CP63 cadet. I'm sure you'll have seen our replys on there about partners and how theres stuff in the welcome pack on partners.

Basic disclosure was with me 2 days after the payment was made... very strange that they have taken their time with you.

[Gar]

I thought you were taking me a bit seriously Matt! If only you could have a sarcastic tone over the internet

[poss]

I think its possible!

Oooooo reeeallllly??? isss thaaaaat sooooo, areennnt youuu a bit of annnn einsteinnnn

Does that work?



By the by to add to my previous post on partners, you might be bored because your partner will be very busy flying and learning etc.

[woskam]

Haha cheers for that Gary, think I'll go hang my head in shame for being rather gullible!
Maybe Poss could write us a book on internet sarcasm that we can all learn from?!

[greenfreddie]

I'll admit to being over here with my wife - CTC have no objections to it at all (they seem to take the attitude that you can do whatever you feel will best assist you to keep your mind on the not insignificant task of learning to be an Airline Pilot).

There are, however, one or three things to bear in mind...

1. Work Visas - Not a snag if under 29 - you can get a backpackers type arrangement. If over 29 Look on the NZ immigration website at the skill shortage lists: if your wife has an appropriate skill, she'll be quids in; if not, it can be a lot trickier, though companies can sponsor people to meet a specific skills shortage (and even then Immigration do their utmost to get in the way).

2. Accommodation - You can share the provided accommodation (I think there is a charge of $70 per week at Clearways towards heat/light/power). Obviously being cooped up in a smallish room is not for everyone, but it is very helpful to stick with your CP for teambuilding / group learning reasons. Individuals have been known to arrange their own alternative accomodation at their own expense (don't know if there is any refund of course costs towards this though).

3. Training schedule - CTC runs a flying and groundschool programme all week, including weekends from Dawn (0630ish) to Night Flying, published the night before - don't expect to be able to plan jaunts around the countryside in advance. You can book leave, subject to approval, if you want to, though when the vagaries of the local weather are taken into consideration this can cause people to drop behind their course mates.

Personally, I've found that comng over here as a couple has worked out really well, but the warning of being bored in the absence of finding work is definitely a fair one - Hamilton is not the most happening of world destinations...

[Ruthie21]

Thanks so much for the advice, it has been very difficult to find anyone who knows from experience what it is like or if it really happens much.

I suppose its up to me now as to whether it will work for me personally. I only have a degree, i'm not trained in anything specific for a job. I think I would want to be living in the accommodation with my partner so that he has the support of his fellow cadets.

As regards to the flights involved, did your wife manage to get the same flight as you?

Thanks again, Ruth.

[belongins]

Ruth and Greenfreddie

I am in the same boat wondering the same questions

I am at phase 2 and 34 yrs old

Both my wife and i have good careers in the uk but if i get through then one option we are looking at is her coming out with me hence this thread is very useful - keep it coming:)

Further options include

She stays here and takes leave from her career to come out for several 1 week holidays throughout the 11 months - in this case i reckon she would move out of our rented (yes we still rent Malvern is too expensive even for a prof couple with no kids:)) and move in with friends as a lodger etc.


We plan our first child such that she is able to take maternity leave (9mths of it!) at the same time?

She comes out with me and finds work for 11months
This is hard because cadets have to routinely return to the UK dont they?

I dont get through selection in which case we all remain as we are :(

Its certainly difficult but by reading posts on here it is clear to see that many people have been through a lot worse than we are facing. I mean i read one chaps account and he had a fmaily including kids and ended up selling his house etc - hardcore:)


Barry

[belongins]

Yeah could be a good idea only that we dont own our hosue:(
We are still renting - I cant believe that two prof people in the 30's with no kids cant afford a house - oh well it makes going to NZ a whole lot easier

Dont forget Dave you need to pay the bank back 1st if you sell your house and then you will only be left with whatever your house has increase over an above what you paid for it minus inflation, minus credit charges, minus misc fees etc - i reckon you would be doing well to walk a way with 100k to invest in a HISA or similar

Barry

[belongins]

Defo Dave couldnt agree more
Its ok though we are putting loads away each month and all is tucked away in ISa's etc so i think currently our savings is growing at an increased rate to any house price - releases the pressure a bit:)

[greenfreddie]

Guys, PM me if you like and I'll give you all the detail I can by email - it's not that there is anything that I wouldn't like to put on a public forum (I think CTC do a cracking job), but I don't surf pprune regularly anymore (wheras outlook is always up and running!). We left the Malvern area to come out here too...

We did travel out together - the flights are block booked by a london firm called Citibond - had some hassles being sat together as all the cadets are on a party booking and spouses have to be booked and paid for separately - our cunning plan of arranging seats by phone the night before failed to materialise at Heathrow, but high blood pressure aside, all worked out ok...

[komac2]

Working temporarily in New Zealand

You may be eligible for a temporary work visa and/or permit if:


you have a job offer from a New Zealand employer
there is a specific purpose or event for which you need to come to New Zealand to work
you are a student or trainee who wants to work here, or
you want to join your partner here and work.
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/worktemporarily/

Requirements for working temporarily in New Zealand
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/migrant/stream/work/worktemporarily/requirements/

[greenfreddie]

All true - and you can call a premium rate phoneline to talk to a real kiwi too..........

[greenfreddie]

and in response to an earlier one, the timeline is roughly 7 months NZ, 5-6 weeks UK for the first 8 ATPL exams, then a further 3-4 months in NZ. Time flys by like nobody's business though!

[chchflyboy]

I was wondering why there were so many British learning to fly here!!
Haha- today we had a visit from 3 pilots on the CTC wings course come in on a Diamond DA42 Twinstar, having a chat with them they said they will never regret anything they did, and every moment in New Zealand has been incredible, infact two of them are wanting to apply for citizenship!
The work is hard, but if you have a good head on your shoulders, and a passion you wont even notice the work load.
Just some positive insight for anyone thinking about doing the CTC course, it's not all grim and guts! After reading some posts so far it can sure seem so.
I wasn't very good at school, and went through a tough time, and maybe too many good times:=- but my heart and determination is putting me at a 95% pass rate in CPL here in NZ. Goodluck to all, might see you around!

[PAJ]

chcflyboy, I think I may well have been one of the cadets you mention, assuming that is that you fly out of Canterbury Aero at Christchurch. The flight back to Hamilton was loooonng, but the weather was generally pretty kind (apart from being a bit bumpy on the approach into Wellington) and control didn't mess us around too much which helped to speed things along. We appreciate everyone's hospitality down there.

[Fox_one]

Hello guys,

I've recently been offered a place on the CTC wings icp course. Are there any icp cadets around how could answer a few questions? I'd just like to hear about your experiences on the course.

Thanks in anticipation :ok:

[Fox_one]

Hi DJ,

Thanks for the offer of help but was hoping to find someone who was mid training. Just wanted to know when and how an icp cadet would be recommend to or sponsored by an airline and whether this would involve paying for a type rating.

CTC have told me that as long as I perform well in training and airline demand is sufficient I would go into the wings ATP programme without any further selection. I'm pretty sure this would be the case as it makes sense for all involved. Also one of the things I learnt from the cadets at selection was CTC have always done as they said. Would be nice to hear from a icp cadet first hand though.

When does you CP start training? If I go ahead I'd like to start around October as it gives me more time to save up for living costs etc....:ok:

[99jolegg]

Even though the ATP scheme is shut off to new applicants, would they still consider you if you completed the iCP scheme?

[Fox_one]

I agree, I think the airline demand at the time of graduation is key. If one airline place was up for grabs and there was one wings cadet and one icp cadet, then of course the wings cadet would get the job. Similarly, I think a good icp cadet would have an advantage over an external candidate for a wings ATP place.

It’s a natural choice for CTC to start offering places to people willing to pay-it’s a win/win situation for them. If I complete the CPL IR with them and there is no job at the end they have made £60k and fulfilled their contract. If demand is sufficient and an airline takes me on then it’s a great advert for the icp course and a great opportunity for me.

Hmmm think I'm answering my own questions here.....

Thanks for your replies guys

[Kerosine]

I posted this on the social thread but thought it would be useful to have it here for reference also.

Help in prep for Stage 4:

http://www.b737.org.uk/flightinsts.htm#Classic_Flight_Instruments

[belongins]

Kerosine

Is the sim at phase 4 classic or NG?

If you bhave any further pointers too you could pm me buddy:)

Barry

[Al W]

Classic...Which is a shame because the one I had gotten used to on Flight Simulator was NG.

Still an awesome experience though.

[belongins]

Cool
At least it will more resemble the Chipmunks I was use to :)
How did you get on, did you crash it:=

[Al W]

Not quite. I stalled on take-off though. I raised the nose and it kept going. Didn't quite know how much pressure to put on the stick to lower it again. I ended up with about 35-40 degrees nose up. I pulled it back though.
On landing I stopped right at the very end of the runway- cutting it fine a bit.
Somehow I passed, so am over the moon and off in September :cool:

[Kerosine]

At least it will more resemble the Chipmunks I was use to :)

I think even though it's a 737-300 it still has an EFIS (someone who's been I'm sure will correct me if I'm wrong), so maybe a little optomistic belongins!:}

I think it will look like this...
http://www.b737.org.uk/fltinsts_panel.jpg
As opposed to this...
http://www.b737.org.uk/fltinsts_panel_nonefis.jpg

BTW, belongins, that pm will be on its way shortly:ok:

[belongins]

Ai W
Is there that much emphasis on your flying ability - I have never flown a 737 and many of my fellow candidates have never flown at all. Seems a bit of a tall order to expect us to be able to fly a 737 (land it etc etc)

Kerosine
I hear ya :)
EFIS will be cool to see but dials and guages are nice ad easy to read i guess. I will check my pm

Barry

[antes56]

Hi everyone...On the ctc CAdet program there isn't anything say about living accomodation and meals for the long period of the course....

Anyone know say something more about this fact??? THANK YOU

[PAJ]

Usually CTC throw you into the fixed base 737-300 sim which does have an EFIS setup. You are not expected to be able to fly the 73 fluently - the reason they use a much more advanced and higher performance aircraft is to allow a potential cadet's trainablility and learning curve to be assessed in a technical environment. If you have some flying experience, it definitely helps a bit but CTC will in turn expect more from you in the sim. You will have an instructor tell you where all the relevant instruments are and what indications to be looking for. Generally you will start off just in control of the yoke and rudder pedals, and then the power levers may be thrown in for good luck as you fly an ILS at the end.

As for accommodation, CTC provide self catered accommodation for cadets included unders the training bond, but you will need to account for living costs, fuel etc. Overall, NZ is a little cheaper than the UK but alcohol costs about the same. NZ$150 per week would be a fairly decent figure to start with I'd say.

[belongins]

OMG
I am going to have to play down my previous flying experience in that case :)
B

[Al W]

I had had 7 hours previous flying experience, thought I hadn't done too well and passed. I think like PAJ says, they're looking at how well you can pick something up and repeat it getting better each time.
They may also throw a few random maths questions in there while you're trying to fly just to make sure you can multi-task.
I think the best advice is just to go and enjoy yourself, listen and learn. I thought I'd messed up on a few things, but I passed, so I don't think they'd expect you to be a skygod just yet.

Also the lower display on the screens was for my assessment, set up as per the bottom photo in Kerosine's post above.

[wiblywoblywonder]

Hey belongins - ya i'm in for the 4th June for Phase 2/3!

Have you accom sorted? Getting nervous!!!

[belongins]

Wee Willy Wobbler i passed my phase 2/3 i have phase 4 at Nursling
Accom - try Avon Causway/Hurn Farm
B

[wiblywoblywonder]

Oh okay well done then!! best of luck for P4! From what I've read you'll enjoy it!

What did you find the hardest? To be specific I'm brushing up on the arithmetic (couldn't believe what I couldn't do when I took the pen & paper out ie no calculator!!)
Also doing sample aptitude tests and learning as much about the airlines as I can. I've done interviews before so I don't think I'll be too uncomfortable with that.

Can you recommend anything else I should practise? eg any particulars about the aircraft etc before I go over??

Cheers!

[belongins]

Not really sorry
Clue up on you basic GCSE long x and long / (inc. decimals!)
Good luck
B

[antes56]

I have a question...which kind of student nationality are there in CTC cadet program??
there are some Italian guys taking the CTC cadet course or they are most UK ??

[belongins]

Bonjorno
I know one Italian dude Rik i think hs name is who has nearly passed 2/3 but has to go back for one element resit
I also met a Portugese guy during my phase 2/3

Ciao
Barry

[Anderson8]

Hi, im looking to enroll on this course in 2010. Is the loan they offer you unsecured? Or do i have to secure my parents house onto it?

[Kerosine]

Well chaps it's taken a while but I'll be seeing you out there later this year :ok:

[EI350]

Many Irish out there?! I'm applying later on in the year once I get my Leaving Cert results!

[sjogren]

Well, just as Kerosine, I will be seeing some of you in New Zealand later this year! (CP65 :ok:) unbelievable!!:)

As about the nationalities, I am swedish...and have actually lived most of my life in Brazil, so there are definetely some few from other countries at CTC!

[Geetea]

Il happily watch it, but only if Down have a chance of winning the sam maguire for the 6th time! otherwise i will be in my bed like everyone else...hehe

[Kerosine]

For all those moving on to stage 4, the cockpit definately has an EFIS layout. It looks like this:
http://www.b737.org.uk/fltinsts_panel.jpg

[Robbo0885]

This might seem a totally irrelevant question, but where do you "fly" when you're in the phase 4 sim? Is it like "I live in X can we do this out of X airport?" sort of thing? Just curious cos I can't wait, and the big geek par tof me would love to do it "flying" out of my home airport.

Are the engine instruments digital as in the later 300 series, as is portrayed in the likes of the 400 in FS2004? Or are they analogue dials for the likes of N1, EGT etc?

[Kerosine]

where do you "fly" when you're in the phase 4 sim?Myself and 3 others on the day flew out of Bournemouth, but as chelsce said, you barely look out of the window. When your in the sim with this experienced training captain, the last thing you would do is say "Oo do you mind if we fly out of Manchester instead??";)

Are the engine instruments digital as in the later 300 series, as is portrayed in the likes of the 400 in FS2004? Or are they analogue dials for the likes of N1, EGT etc?

Doesn't matter really, Cap. looks after the throttles, although the guages are digital (not sure how this compares to FS2004). See this link for an almost identical FD compared to the sim:
http://www.b737.org.uk/flightdeck737classic.jpg

It's near impossible to prepare as there isn't much to prepare for. You are given simple instructions really, nothing you could revise. Therfore IMO it's best to ask the captain when you're there, it will show you're interested!
In short, you will fly an ascent to ~8000ft, practise turns maintaining altitude, practise descents and more turns, then possibly allow you to intercept ILS and fly the approach right down to the ground :ok:

Believe me after stage 2/3 is done you'll find this amazing fun!

[Robbo0885]

Thanks for the replies guys, I absolutely can't wait to get into that sim! One week to go, seems like forever! How soon were you told the outcome of phase 4, was it that day?

What comes after "hopefully!" passing phase 4? I believe another trip to Bournemouth to sort bank stuff out, correct?

[woskam]

I've got the print out of my approach and landing pinned on my wall!
I'm guessing your landing ability isn't being tested as mine was appalling: pretty much zig-zagged down the localiser then hit the deck at -1100fpm yet still managed to pass! I guess I showed that I've got room for improvement...

[mattkcraven]

I had the pleasure of doing 3 ILS approaches and landings..... all as hairy as each other :}

Had to peel myself out of the seat once finished, good fun but so tiring......

[Kerosine]

Be aware that there are different training captains doing stage 4 so your experiences will differ, some may land and others might not I suppose. I spent 50 mins in the sim and it was the most fun I've had in ages. Managed to land the thing on the threshold which I was pleased about, although we have to override the autobrake to stop just short of the end of the runway due to a substantial balloon!

The chap who I had (David Powell) was great. Very calming and relaxed, also very interesting to talk to; really made it an enjoyable day. That being said, I've heard all of them are very good.

[woskam]

I had Eg too! One of the nicest guys I've ever met!

[gkyip]

My experience seems to be the same, just to add assurance for those of you with phase 4 coming up. There was about a 40 min briefing which covered basic instruments, and how they work and covered a brief overview of speeds, basic flying controls and procedures. The first thing the instructor did was to say this is the overhead panel, this is the centre pedestal...forget about these as they won't be used. The engines, flaps and MCP are all handled by the instructor so just focus on your instrument scan.

Instructor took off for me, handed control over to me around 4000ft and asked me to level off at 8000ft. Then some normal turns to track headings and steep turns. Then it was radar vectors for an ILS approach. My printout showed me skirting around the localiser a bit and following a pretty good steady -700fpm for the glideslope. My landing wasn't too bad, I asked 'Egg' what he thought of the landing and he said my passengers would be very scared!:p

Egg was fantastic, top guy and made me and the two others there feel very relaxed and I got the impression that we were there to mostly enjoy the day. Now I'm through, looking to get a lot more sim time later on in the course!:ok:

Best of luck and enjoy it!

[belongins]

Did mine yesterday - and passed :)
CP67 oh yeah:)

Incidently i did my own throttles - 55% N1 ....or there abouts:) and an ILS approach into 24L Gatwick after doing a series of banked turns ascents and descents including descending banked turns too weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee:)


Great fun - for those about to rock ....please just chill and enjoy the day its immense!

B

[woskam]

Well done mate!
Out of curiosity, how many flying hours have you got? Obviously everybody's P4 is tailored to their experience but I've never heard of anybody handling the throttles before!

[belongins]

Indeed and sorry for forgeting to tell you:)
I have around 13hrs on Chipmunks via the ATC but as the more astute of you will know i am 34! so this was a while ago to say the least!
Also i did the basic glider pilot course at RAF Chivenor VGS via the ATC which saw me through to a solo circuit in a Venture T2 motor glider after around 5 hours flight tuition.

It is tailored and expectations are related to your experience.
Also I was told that the P4 is not regarded in isolation. You whole selection process performance is adjudicated the afternoon after you P4 assessment and a descision usually arrives the same day.

IMHO I reckon they are looking to see if anyone freaks out on the flight deck and says 'You know what this isnt for me.' Quite right really considering the undertaking and the financial risk. Very responsible of CTC IMHO

B

[belongins]

LOL:)
Chelsce whihc course are you on?
B

[wiblywoblywonder]

belongins - congrats in getting through! :D When are you starting? I hope I will be joining you!

Does anybody know where is the best place to stay in Nursling for Phase 4? Bearing in mind I'm using public transport!!
(I know I already asked you for Bournemouth & I'm sorted there!!) Tried a few but they are £70 a night, if there was anything cheaper I would be interested! See if I get past Phase 2/3 I have Phase 4 the next day so just getting it sorted!

If anyone in for June 4/5 let me know!! :ok:

[Streety]

an ILS approach into 24L Gatwick

Sounds like they've moved the runway round since I was last there.... :E

[belongins]

Ooohps bugger
Sorry still dilerious with joy 26L :ok: hehehhehehehehe

Wibly
Thanks!
Dont stay at the Star Hotel in the centre of town. £50 a night, noisey and pants:(
Someone siad on here that you could ask Southampton Uni for a room - seems like a pretty good idea.
Also i noticed what looked like a sweet place on the A34(?) main road into Southampton but may not suit public transport?

B

[Robbo0885]

Wibly,

I'm heading down to phase 4 next week, 5th June from Aberdeen. I'm staying at a B&B in Totton which seems OK in terms of location-only £35 a night too (who says Aberdonians are tight?!). I'm not that fussed what the place is like tho-just want a bed for the night! The guy at the place reckons a taxi to CTC at Nursling from there is around £8, so not too bad. PM me if you want more details.

Robbo

[wiblywoblywonder]

Hey guys thanks for that.
Rob,can you PM me the details of that B&B. WIll be handy for a taxi in the morning!!
Good price too, the hotel CTC recommended was £70!!!
Tried PM'ing you but it wouldn't work :ugh:
Cheers
P

[Jenny149]

I have been going through the info pack and just wondered if everyone had taken out their insurance with the company suggested by ctc?
Has anyone looked elsewhere at insurance?

[poss]

Well done belongings!
I didn't bother shopping around, as dave said for what we need its quite difficult to find. You may as well not take the risk and just go for the company ctc recommended, I believe the only savings others have made have been less then £100.

[d41xcs]

you're about to spend roughly 65 grand on a training course, and instead of "doing" what CTC "suggest" (which is getting insurance from PJIS), numerous cadets seem to think that hunting around insurance companies so they can save 100 quid or so is a good use of time...

the requirements are very very specific. CTC have years and years of experience about what works, and what doesnt...so why do people feel the urge to ignore their advice?!

dont get me wrong - i love a bargain, but in this situation, is it worth taking the gamble? maybe i've missed a trick here, but i'd say its more important to just get all in prep done to the T, than risk getting your visa refused cos you thought you'd save (in the grand scheme of things) a few pennies.

please note - this is not me suggesting that cadets dont watch what they spend, and spend wisely at that...

[poss]

Pfft tell me about it Dave. I'm so poor I make a bum look rich.
Saying that though my £400 for this month came through just today but got to spend it in moderation.
I've not heard of anyone getting the insurance anywhere cheaper and it covering everything that is required but please someone correct me if i'm wrong.

[Kerosine]

I'm still awaiting the info pack so maybe you can help with this; do we have to pay for our insurance outright or is it covered in some way by the loan? I pretty sure I now what the answer is but wanted to confirm with someone!

Thanks!

[d41xcs]

Paying for the insurance is seperate from the loan, as the insurance itself covers the loan (if that makes sense)...ie: they are not going to lend you money to cover a loan which they are issuing.

the logical order of things is (assuming you need the loan):

1) Medical (cos if you dont get it, you'll never be flying anyway!)
2) Loan
3) Insurance (cos it covers the loan, and is only worth getting if you can afford to go! It also means you have the correct cover to apply for....
4) Visa (cos you need to have paid your foundation course fee via your loan and you also need the right insurance).

I got my insurance the other week and it was £1112.

thats the long and short of it anyway...

[Kerosine]

Thansk for that Dx, I remember a time when a grand was a large sum of money, now it pales in comparison to the other 75K... :bored:

[xbilz]

I passed my phase2 and had phase 3 on the same day. However, CTC decided not to take my application further. But they have asked me to re-apply again stating that I was very close to their standards. They have asked me to re-apply in 6 months time... is it usual?? do I have to go through the whole process again or would it just be the interview?? has anyone been able to get it done earlier than 6 months waiting time?? 6 months is a lonnnnnnnnnnnnng time.

[CTFC]

X check your PM's

[Jenny149]

Well just to make you feel a bit better I applied to CTC originally 2 years ago I also passed Stages 1 and 2, had the interview and was unsuccessful they told me I was close to their standards and to reapply in 2 Years time. I can tell you it was worth waiting cos I reapplied and had my phase 3 and 4 last month and I leave for NZ on CP66 in October.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

There is a rapidly deepening pool of CTC cadets completing training.

Some will be tempted to escape their debts by means of personal bankruptcy. This will happen as soon as cadets cannot be placed with airlines that will pay a living wage post monthly loan repayments.

Once a few people go bankrupt (there isn't a judge in the insolvency court who would not allow it) and walk away from their HSBC loan then the whole question of funding will become a very red hot potato for HSBC.

These schemes were not designed to withstand a credit crunch and a massive airline recession. Be aware of the liabilities and scenarios attached to the promise of an airline career as marketed in the brochure.

WWW

[belongins]

WWW
Wise words indeed:ok:

[vini123456789]

I'll be at ctc on the 11th june, does any one know any one who has actually passed this scheme???

[poss]

There are options open to cadets in the holding pool, as Dave said they will have turned down offers and be awaiting an airline they would prefer such as EZY.

[iFabio2]

Ciao people :)

just booked phase 2 (maybe 3 :) ) on the 24th of june, anyone happening to be there?

fabio

[Kerosine]

Agreed Chelcse, getting into flying always requires a leap of faith (especially financially!). There will be good times and bad times to make this jump but as it stands we will not be looking for employment for another 16 months(ish) so hopefully the situation will not be worse.

[xbilz]

Thanks to all who replied. Does anyone know if you fail at phase 3 and called again, do you get to resit phase 2 again or will it just be an interview?

[belongins]

XBilz
FWIW a guy attended in similar circumstances when i did my phase 2/3 and he did the group excersise and the interview. I did not see him do the numeracy/pilapts
HTH


Good luck with 2 and hopefully 3 Fabio...

[ravanelli295]

heys guys....feel abit stupid about this..applying to the cadet programme soon....just wondering who you guys used as your 2 referees in the application process....it says "a person you have known for more than 5 years, not relatives of close friends".

So far i only have my gcse/a-level teacher whom i have known more than 5 years....otherwise i can only think of close friends who i have known more than 5 years....since i have been at university for 3 years...

much appreciated

[Kerosine]

Don't worry about this, I don't have a suitable reference in terms of the 5 year requirement and have been told this is fine! If you pass stage 4 you are told that references are still accepted if you haven't known them for 5 years (the example given by CTC is that those fresh out of uni will only have known their tutors for 3 years!).

Make sure it's not family and close friends though (although I sure you've noticed this stated on the online application).


edit: you started uni at 16??

[ravanelli295]

haha...no im still at uni...its my last year in september...im 20 on sunday....i contacted ctc to ask if i can apply now, whilst i am still studying....they gave me the ok to do so....

[ravanelli295]

So do they not contact your referees until you have passed stage 4? Or will they use the references to support the selection process?

[Kerosine]

Well you may be please to know being in Uni in no way detracts from your application. CP67 due to start in November has about 2/3 people from Leeds uni who were in the exact same position as you, having gone to the CTC assessment with impending exams!




edit:

So do they not contact your referees until you have passed stage 4? Or will they use the references to support the selection process?

References are contacted after you have passed stage 4 of selection

[vini123456789]

cherz thats a booster

[concordski]

DJ, you appear to know more than the average poster but somewhat less than WWW. Belongins shows the right attitude and your age difference (as well as your proud boast of a status) confirms it. We know you're happy to be starting the course but two years down the line is where you need to look... The guys through the course you speak of might just get 500hrs on type before things really start to kick off in the winter, but they would have started in 2006, the good old days. They might have no option but to hold for easy anyway (do you want to be shipped out to the pacific on completing?) Take senior advice and stay out of denial. You will hear more rumours about the pool/jobs etc than you will ever forget - advice from cadets is notoriously blinkered/rose-tinted by that 319 around the corner. You'll see what I mean when you get there.

[Robbo0885]

Hi all,

Stuart from yesterdays phase 4 here. I am the newest member of CP69, departing the UK Dec 31st. New Year, New Zealand huh?! Can't beleive it!

Just wondering how you guys from yesterday got on....

[Kerosine]

Congratulations, well done Robbo!

[Exhibitz]

do you want to be shipped out to the pacific on completing?

Am I right in believing you are not part of CTC? The new pacific job is looking more and more promising by the minute, with large starting salaries and bonuses (including villas supplied by pacific) than any other job is offering, with the chance to fly to much more interesting locations than heathrow! I know of quite a few cadets who are REQUESTING to go to pacific out here. Do your research first. So many know-it-alls on this forum :ugh:

[RAF_Techie101]

Hey guys

Having read through most of this thread, I've decided to post a quick message to say hi, as I'm planning on applying for the Wings scheme within the next year or so. I'm currently serving in the RAF as an Aircraft Engineer (Airframes/Engines) and have begun my PPL through the local flying club to give me a headstart and ensure I do actually have an ability to fly before commencing the route to my dream career.

I don't leave the RAF until October 2009, however it would make sense to me to apply when I have around 6 months or so remaining in case I have to resit any parts, or if I fail the selection completely it'll give me a chance to re-evaluate things...

Lots of very useful information on this thread, and I'm sure I'll see some of you in the future during the selection phase...

Cheers guys :ok:

Martin

[vini123456789]

any one doing phase 2/3 on 11th does anyone know hoe the new day works out to be.

[belongins]

Martin
FWIW I met a good guy from the RAF (maybe similar situation to you?)
I was doing my phase3 assessment at Bournmouth and he was doing his intermediate training (I think) having come back from NZ.

Maybe you could pm him and see if he's willing to share his experiences thus far.

You can search for him here his username is thrillseeker:ok:

Good luck

Barry

[RAF_Techie101]

Cheers mate, sounds like a plan - I'll have a gander and see if he's still on here:D

Much appreciated

[docash1983]

Hi Guys and Gals,

I know that this question has been done to death, however I have a slightly different take on it and therefore think it is worth asking, as I can not find the answer through the searches I have done. Currently I’m sprucing up on the old GCSE mathematics for CTC wings assessment, I know that many posts state various areas which one must be competent in to pass the selection. However through years of education I like to work to a revision plan so far I’ve been following the information on the site i.e. fractions, long and short multiplication and division, algebra, rearranging equations, addition, squaring and so on. However, without a revision plan I feel a bit lost. I was wondering what past and present takers of the test have found most useful to revise, as I said fractions are an obvious requirement however are algebraic fractions? I feel it may be easy to go too far. This is not a way of trying to glean what is on the test, I would just like to know what others found useful in preparation.

Many Thanks Docash1983

[docash1983]

Thanks very much djfingers crossed, I really appreciate it.

Best of luck with your training bud.

Docash1983

[Kerosine]

Wow just had to look on the second page of threads to find this, I've not seen it left for such a long time:eek:

Just an update that people may find useful, the foundation course is no longer $13,000 NZD, it is $17,000 NZD. This equates to roughly £1,500 on top of the previous amount.

[belongins]

no way thats total poo:(

Any idea why the increase?

[Kerosine]

I was told it's an adjustment for the rising fuel prices and cost of living. Not sure if it's been slightly overplayed given the magnitude of the increase. Then again, I suppose you have to grit your teeth and accept it; I'm not going to decide against the whole thing on principle! They have you by the nads:ok:

[R T Jones]

As far as I'm aware the bond for the course has been £60k for a fair while now, I wonder if it will remain like this in the future or will it possibly rise? Personally I have no idea..

[komac2]

may be of interest from a CTC cadet blog:

Drama on the apron
http://web.mac.com/robert_coulson/iWeb/Rob%27s%20Homepage/Blog/3696F2DE-4FC2-46A0-891B-86AB402F5922.html

[komac2]

Not sure if it's been slightly overplayed given the magnitude of the increase


Food and fuel prices have pretty much taken off into the stratophere down in this part of the world and continuing to rise as with everywhere.

[komac2]

may also be of interest:

STOP PRESS...STOP PRESS...

Announcing “CityJet Wings” – An exciting new cadet sponsorship programme dedicated to CityJet - winners of the Airline of the Year bronze award 2007/2008.
Opportunities for London City and Dublin basings.
First course – OCTOBER 2008…launching on 23 June 2008...watch this space!
http://www.ctcwings.co.uk/index_home.asp


Recruitment - Jet Pilot Programme

Welcome to the CityJet Cadet Pilot Programme in connection with

CTC Aviation (http://www.ctcaviation.com/)

http://www.cityjet.com/recruitment/cityjet-careers/jet-pilot-programme.html

[Kerosine]

So thats what's behind the mysterious missing October intake!

[Spymell]

Hello Streety,

Do you know how many apply for the CTC Wing Cadet programme in 2008 and how many will get in eventually???

I am trying to find out the success rate of that event if possible...

Best regards,

Spyros.

[99jolegg]

Rough figure of 4% pass rate from Phase One to Phase Four. They take on about 12 cadets a month out of maybe 300 that apply in a month.

[d41xcs]

As far as I'm aware the bond for the course has been £60k for a fair while now, I wonder if it will remain like this in the future or will it possibly rise? Personally I have no idea..


I would be extremely, extremely suprised if it ever got any "cheaper"! Things like this will inevitably get more expensive, whether it be due to increasing fuel prices, inflation, increased trainer costs etc. The fact that so many guys/girls are willing to pay the price to train on such a good scheme anyway is probably an indication it itself that prices could probably go up a tad and still not put off all that many people (whats a rise of 3 grad when your borrowing 60 anyway!). altho you could say the attraction of the scheme at the moment is the price (in comparison to OAA and FTE)...we'll just have to wait and see what happens i guess...

[99jolegg]

It looks like CityJet are sourcing cadets as a separate scheme from the Wings scheme, which will use the October slot, or part of it.

[Kerosine]

Ah ok, I was told that October was unavailable when I passed P4 last month, also the one other person who I saw on this intake was moved to a later date due to 'administrative' reasons. I phrased it wrong saying it was missing as I know there are a couple of you on it, but this explains where the other places have gone.

It may be that they want to mix the two groups slightly (CTC wings cadets and CityJet cadets) although I assume we'll be covering the same material.

[Kerosine]

Now I'm getting the paperwork out of the way I'm getting much more excited! You'll have to snoop out the great places in Hamilton for when I get there a month later :ok:

[pre3mhjt]

HaHa...great places in Hamilton! We could start a very short thread about those: My vote goes to Firecats; anyone else?

[akindofmagic]

Is Furnace still the place to go? I was there when the big switch from The Bank to Furnace happened....

[R T Jones]

pre3mhjt, I agree with the best place in Hamilton! lol. Furnace is the place to be if you want to be with every other CTC'er in Hamilton. How about the chlamydia triangle?

[EZYramper]

Calendar Girls anyone?!......

[Kerosine]

This is starting to get very interesting! I'm assuming the Bank and the Furnace are bars/clubs? Am I right in thinking there's a large student population in Hamilton (not CTC Cadets)?

RT

How about the chlamydia triangle?

DJThis triangle sounds rather appealing!!!!:O
I think something's been lost in translation there Dave! :}

Although from what I've heard Hamilton has a large proportion of STDs flying around, is this just someone taking the michael or is there any truth in it?? Apparently at least 3 of you have first hand experience of this anyway :ouch:

[akindofmagic]

Well I don't know if it's still the case, but when I was there Hamilton was "affectionately" known as "The Chlamyditron"...

[R T Jones]

EZY.... MORE STEAMMMM!

R.E Student population, from talking to some locals it seems that the Outback is the closest thing to a student union, for you that don't know the outback, its an interesting place, forms one point of the triangle.

[komac2]

geez you lot are a funny bunch - STD wise you have got no more chance of getting one in Hamilton than you have in your present locations -wether here of their never heard of the phrase use a condom, and if Firecats is your 'favorite' place :D would stipulate the opposite of any chance of getting an STD at all.

and this master piece from your social thread
... Someone at CTC (one of the cadets doing there IR in Bournemouth) said a lot of the locals were inbred hillbillies, oh dear :bored:. Obviously take this with a pinch of salt, I certainly hope it's not true!
would stipulate that that guy had absolutely no chance at all of worrying about an STD at all - either that or he was housed in Hamilton east were their are more that an a few loonies running around.

[d41xcs]

it does suprise me how excited you're all getting about some pubs and bars...and especially the STD's...anyone would think you'd never been let out of your own house!

[Kerosine]

From my recent loan application:

Total Replayable = £96,000

For this money I'm going to get excited about as much a possible!

[Kerosine]

As far as I'm aware the bond for the course has been £60k for a fair while now, I wonder if it will remain like this in the future or will it possibly rise?Bear in mind the interest is variable, so if interest rates rise the total repayable will increase. Technically it could get much more expensive!

[rmoller]

shhhh, don't say that, as long as we shut up about it they won't think about it ;)

[auckme]

why do they ask for these referee in the application? i mean are they really gonna call them and inquire about me?

[99jolegg]

After the final stage, yes they do. Just like any reputable company you join does. :ok:

[rmoller]

yeah, that is why I can't start my selections yet, they wanted that I graduated first....Wednesday I'll be graduated and then I have to send them a message

[komac2]

CityJet Wings Cadet -Land your career with us today

Become a Pilot with CityJet

As a CityJet Wings Cadet, you have a genuine opportunity to land your dream career as a commercial airline pilot.Our career development programme will take you from little or even no flying experience, through single-engine and multi-engine flying and on to jet training and aircraft type rating so that you can be a co-pilot on one of our aircraft in less than 18 months. With bases in the UK, France and Eire we offer a fantastic opportunity for aspiring airline pilots to achieve their dream.

What's more this is a sponsored (http://www.ctcwings.co.uk/cityjetwings/finance.asp) route into one of the most exciting jobs in the world. To ensure talented applicants aren't grounded by a lack of finance, the CityJet Wings Cadet route operates an innovative financial solution to help fund your training.

Apply to the CityJet Wings Cadet programme today and land your career with Ireland's leading quality airline!

CityJet Wings (http://www.ctcwings.co.uk/cityjetwings/)

[Geetea]

Not impressed with the salary i must say......and the price of the foundation course is now $17400....was bound to happen eventually given price of fuel going up.

[pre3mhjt]

It's true that the first year basic isn't great, but if the allowances pan out as predicted then you can expect to add around £20,000 a year to it. The incremental salary increases actually make the final pay scale as competitive as any of the other partners for a cadet entry.

[woskam]

CityJet Wings Training (http://www.ctcwings.co.uk/cityjetwings/training.asp)

Look right at the bottom of the page, apparently you start as a Second Officer.

[Bambe]

Is someone could explain the difference between a first and a second officer (except the salary..)?

Thanks

[99jolegg]

Usually, Second Officers are used on long haul flights, as a way of providing enough crew for the time distance without using two experienced FOs. This way, you can use someone who is new to the company. Not many airlines do this any more, but a few in Asia do.

When operating 1-3 hour hops, I can't believe they'll have a third person (in the already cramped cockpit) to take over duties, but I could be wrong. I assume it's just a way of justifying payscale...they are recruiting DE FOs so they probably start at the usual rate, but cadets will start at a lower rate, having their training paid back and on a reduced salary. Perhaps Second Officer is the 'label' for reduced salary cadets.

[komac2]

this is purely speculative but I think S/O may be a Tech term in regards to Citijet cadets(is their really a need for SOs on avroRJs etc ) it is probably more in line with Citijet 'intern' Pilot but Second officer sounds better, the initial pay is probably more of a training allowance as it sound a lot like Air NZs intended Cadet pilot scheme( I wonder who might be involved in that in future):

http://www.pprune.org/forums/d-g-general-aviation-questions/326909-airnz-academy-2.html

From the study produced by 4 people, 2 i can confirm are pilots (jet) for Air NZ, not sure on the other two.

Graduating students from the cadetship would move directly into the third seat of a wide-body air New Zealand jet to gain familiarity with the working of the multi-crew operation. Whilst in receipt of a TRAINING salary, these second officers would not be type-rated or be listed on the company seniority list. From there, they would be employed into the Air New Zealand Group as a first officer on the turbo-prop fleet and issued with a seniorty number.

For the cadets, their "return of service" would start at the point of employment as a first officer. If the airline had contributed to the cost of the training this return of service would be completed at a reduced salary, in order for the company recoup the financial cost of the training. It is envisaged that the cadetship programme will take three years to complete from the commencement of training to completion of year one as a second officer.

the study goes on to state that there will be one interview for all the Air Nz group and you end up on a combined seniorty list.

Pilot shortage prompts Air NZ aviation academy

"We have got to get young people interested in aviation as a career, whether it be as a pilot, or just as importantly, as engineers and flight attendants," Morgan said.
The curriculum was yet to be finalised, but it appears likely that students would first learn to fly a light aircraft with a partner flying school.
Air New Zealand would then fast-track their training as airline pilots in its own simulators.
"These people come through thinking like airline pilots when they first step into the cockpit."
Whether students would have to pay for their training was yet to be decided, but Morgan said trainee pilots already qualified for student loans.

Pilot shortage prompts Air NZ aviation academy - Business: press.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/thepress/4551360a6430.html)


whilst not 100% the same some aspects sound similar - but this is purely speculative.

[akindofmagic]

SO in this case is just a technical term (afaik anyway). The cadet will be performing all the duties of an FO, they'll just be getting paid a lower salary! I'm not sure that this is accurate, but I'm sure I read somewhere that cadets taken on by EZY, TCX etc. are actually classed as SOs for the first six months with their airline. Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[komac2]

the key word would be more an observer in regards to Citijet SOs (SO don't perform all the duties of an FO i.e they don't generally land or take off generally only cruise duties during as with Cathey pacific descrip of SO Duties
'The primary functions of the Second Officer are to act as a cruise relief pilot, to monitor all facets of the operation and to support the crew. '
Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd - Second Officer, job in Hongkong, Maintenance (http://jobs.monster.com.hk/details/3646537.html?sig=js-5-3c4b9ff77b69eeda41938976213d9690-1)
- SOs are generally employed on long haul flights - excuse me if I am wrong but most single european sector flights don't reach anywhere near) with enough hands on experience building towards the 1500 hr(as on financial ctc page)which would probably take 18 months.

[ronnie1974]

Anybody heading to Bournemouth for the assessment on Tuesday?

[Apostel88]

hello everyone

i´ll be in bournemouth on the 8th of july for the 2nd/3rd stage. anyone else going down at the same time?
if so, pm me if you like

and one more question: I bought myself recently the numerapt and pilottest software from cockpitweb.com in order to prepare myself for the aptitude tests of CTC. Has anyone had any experience before with this software and the tests of CTC? Is it reliable for the preparation for CTC? And if yes, which of these tests are being done at CTC?

Thank you in advance for every possible answers

cheers
Apostolis

[iFabio2]

Ciao Apostolis,

was there last week. i checked the website and let's say that the actual pilapt tests are pretty close to those ones shown on the website. I also have to say that I did pass the pilapt (not the group excercies, damn it) without ever training for it, so I don't know if it's worth it.

Fabio

[Pilot RatBoy]

CTC Wings has developed a free web game as part of a new recruitment campaign they’re doing in New Zealand. It’s a highly-detailed and fun game that tests your skills at landing an aircraft. You’ve gotta try this out – it’s incredibly addictive! www.landyourairlinecareer.co.nz (http://www.landyourairlinecareer.co.nz/)

[cjhunter87]

Hi all,

Anyone going to Bournemouth for phase 3 on 9th July?

Chris

[belongins]

Hahahah nice little game...........10/10 :):):)
B

[Pilot RatBoy]

Wow, you did better than some guys at CTC then! Alot of them crashed at first attempt :ugh: Spread the CTC love with the game ;)

[Apostel88]

Hi Fabio,

grazie for the answer! I´m sorry to hear though that you did not pass. Are these team excercises really that tough? were they in the form of games or discussions?
Any answer would be really helfpul. I have to admit that I´m rather an introverted person and English is not my native language. Bad combination? I have my 2nd and (hopefully) 3rd stage on the 8th of july. We´ll see

PS: if anyone else will be in bournemouth at CTC on that day pm me if you like

Greetings
Apostolis

[99jolegg]

Hi all,

Anyone going to Bournemouth for phase 3 on 9th July?

Chris

I could well be - check your Private Messages.

[Pilot RatBoy]

Fine, dont believe me then. Though I will leave it to you to tell the people concerned what you think of their flying ability!! I never said struggled anyway, I said crashed at first attempt. Big difference, and they probably didnt take it too seriously (not like its stage 4 all over again). Half the people I spoke to at Peachy crashed first go - fact. I even watched 3 go down in flames myself! Maybe I just picked a bad sample

[Kerosine]

Odd discussion :confused:

It's a game, a marketing tool, not an aptitude test.

[startingout]

10/10 but first one was like my normal landing float long touch late :}

[Apostel88]

haha...

1st attempt: 9/10
2nd: crash-too fast :P
3rd: 10/10

lol:)

[no sponsor]

Crashed on first attempt, made it on the second. And I fly 737s....

[99jolegg]

I got 10/10 on my second try, can I fly A380s now?? :E

Is anyone going to Bournemouth for Phase 2/3 on Wed 16th July? Let me know if so.

:ok:

[99jolegg]

The 4 written questions used to be done after Phase 2, but now they're combined, they will either do them before Phase 2/3 or after 2/3.

[Kina]

Hello everyone!

This is my first post... by the way, thank you very much for all your tips!
I'm having my Phase 2 (and hopefully 3) on 23rd July, is anyone out there going to Bournemouth on the same date?

[jaimz1982]

Hi I'm going to be heading out in November to NZ, anyone else on that course? (Starts 3rd Nov)

Any advice from anyone on the course at the mo? You know stuff to do before I leave? etc!

Also, this might be abit random, but does anyone know of people dropping out? or being told by CTC that they are just not good enough?

It's just CTC have an amazing employment record and I would hate to be the first lol!

Thanks,

Jim

[daveandg]

Anyone have any updated information with regards to the Wings partner airlines? With airline consolidations and new additions, I just want a bit of clarity. The list I have is: -

British Airways,
Easyjet,
Monarch,
Thomsonfly (Amalgamated with First choice to make Thomson Airways), Jet 2,
Thomas Cook (Integrated My travel),
Cityjet (separate selection/scheme- Cityjet wings),
JetStar (of Australia.......unsure of the relationship)

Anyone any more, and any clues as to the Jetstar partnership?

[gkyip]

Hi Jim. I'm on CP65 going out in September. I wouldn't worry about being told your not good enough! If you've made it through selection, then you have already shown that you are the right material for CTC. Remember that only around 4% of people who apply acually get offered a place so feel proud of yourself, well done mate! Also you have plenty of time before you go. Have you received your pack yet? If so then that details pretty much everything you need to do and it seems pretty straightforward. It's more important that you get your medical cos everything will come quickly after your medical. I'm pretty much done with everything. I've sent a cheque for insurance, met with HSBC for the finance, had my medical and sent off for the VISA. If you have any questions, ask Daphne. Finally, if you're on Facebook, join the CP groups and you start to meet the wonderful people who you'll be around for the next 2 years!:} I've also found it useful to check other earlier CP's facebook groups so you can see what is coming up and ask for advice if you're stuck! Just enjoy the fact that you're going to NZ in November and I'll see you out there!

daveandg: There are 8 partner airlines in total (officially) who are:

British Airways
easyJet
First Choice Airways
Thomsonfly
Thomas Cook
Monarch
Jet2.com
MyTravel

BUT it gets confusing as MyTravel and Thomas Cook have merged. The ones who employ the most are BA and easyJet with the main difference being that you need to go through BA's own selection to get a job with them (but well worth it I think). As far as First Choice Airways is concerned, I wasn't aware that they have merged with Thomsonfly. I think they are part of the TUI travel group but remain a separate airline. (Remember that they have ordered 787-8 Dreamliners, due for delivery in 2010!)

There is also CityJet but as you already know they have their own selection and scheme.

In addition there is Pacific Airlines based in Vietnam (which is where you will be based if you end up flying for them).

I'm not sure about Jetstar. I'm sure I read somewhere about them being associated with CTC but I'm not entirely sure.

The main thing to take away if that out of all of the airlines, easyJet is the most likely employer with BA being a good possibility if you pass their selection.

Hope that helps,

Gary

[daveandg]

I didn't quite explain.............Jetstar is Pacific. Pacific was taken over by Jetstar, and operates as a low cost Asian carrier under the title of 'Jetstar Pacific', based out of Vietnam. Hope this clears things up

[waxytudes]

Hello fellow enthusiasts!

Just booked into the Fisherman's Haunt for stage 2/3 on Tuesday... Whoop! Anyone else.......

Off for a flying lesson now :) Feel free to get in touch anyone else going down to Bournemouth next week.

Laters!

Waxy

[R T Jones]

jaimz1982, no selection is 100% perfect and there have been and will be people that either don't make the grade or personal circumstances mean they don't complete the course. Training 150 odd people a year you are bound to get this, I believe their record of 100% placement is of people who have completed the wings course. What will happen over the next year is anyones guess, personally I think we may be in for a bit of a wait for a job. I do think we'll get there, just a little later than we all thought! see you in November!

[watchmysix]

Anyone here going to phase two or know what to expect on the assessment day? (other than the bill for £172)

[dragonfly6]

jaimz1982,

ye there have been cadets not finish the course. Its not a secret that some dont make it through. i think the failure rate is somwhere in the vicinity of 4-7% ish - dont quote me. In the two years i was there id say about 13 cadets didnt finish. Thats out of 2 or 3 hundred cadets though. Its a fairly tough course but if you mean business and combine hard work with stamina youll be fine and will enjoy alot of it.

Im sure it will go well for you. id say if your thinking about this stuff already then youll have no problems.

Any advice before you go out there?
The best tip ive got is take plenty of plug adaptors, a good sense of humour - you will need it! some sort of pooleys plate book/folder to hold your A5-aerodrome plates in (dont be like me - get one at the start and save yourself months of having paper flying round the cockpit every flight). Also youll need some bulldog clips for your maps. Invariably theres a rush to buy this stuff when you get there.

You might need an unlocked mobile phone handset aswell to put a pay as you go sim card into to save you buying a mobile out there. And dont spend too much money in firecats (youll find out).

Youll have a testing but positive few years.

thats all i can think of.

[dragonfly6]

no it not like that. they are sensible about it. Everyone runs into problems in thier training at some point, its to be expected - there are very few cadets that havnt. they arent out to chop you or give you a hard time. you can fail somthing a few times and it can be remedied and forgotten about. It depends upon the circumstances.

[dragonfly6]

oh i forgot,

motoring is really cheap in NZ, you can pick up a used car for next to nothing. A kiwi MOT requires somone kicking the tyres and if it doesnt fall apart it is passed with flying colours. All the cars out there are cheap used japanese imports. Insurance is totally optional and very very cheap. Petrol is less than half what it is here.

It can become quite awkward at times sharing a vehicle between so many people, especially when everyone has a different flying schedule and somone needs to go to the shop and somone has a day off and wants to go out etc etc.

If you can find maybe £500 to put aside to take out with you that should get you a car and make life alot easier. Its quite easy to sell it on to incoming cadets when you leave. I bought a surf bus covered in flowers for about £300. Although it sriously questioned my manhood it did the job and had plenty space for the surf boards. (raglan; good surfing beach 1hrs drive west of hamilton)

[jpunteney]

Is there anyone else booked to go down for selection on 23rd July? Have found 1 other person and sort of trying to organise something like a taxi into CTC in the morning, but are there any other people set to be joining us for the day?

[Robbo0885]

I'd be interested in hearing what "flight stuff" you get from CTC- I;ve got a heap of stuff from doing the PPL, as well as some stuff in prep for distance learning ATPL with Bristol GS that I dont know whether to keep or sell. If you have stuff already, will CTC give you new stuff anyway? OR if you have books, kneeboards, rulers,plotters, CRP5, Bristol GS CD-Rom etc will they give you £££ back fo rthe stuff you dont need?

I'm guessing they will give you stuff anyway, so I will probably sell all my stuff on eBay before I go

[Kerosine]

We have just been advised by CTC that the Training Fees have been increased from September 2008. The Loss of Training Expenses sum insured has therefore been amended to take account of this increase. Unfortunately there is a slight increase in premium as a result of this which makes the total premium now £1128.05.
Just received this!

Edit: to clarify, from the insurance company

[ElSupremo]

Hi, I'm not sure that this is the correct place but hey ho...

I've recently completed my university law degree and currently deciding what to do with my life career wise and it's currently lawyer v pilot. Piloting would be a dream job (I've always loved planes and airports) and it would pay similarly to law. Therefore, I'm currently contemplating applying for CTC Wings (or the one or two others out there like Netjets) as a way of avoiding the massive costs of training. However, I have noticed that these schemes do require a full security bond to be payed (usually around £60,000). I know that after 'graduating' I'd get the money back from my employer but the idea of £60k floating over my head until that times worries me significantly.

So I ask, what do you guys make of this? Is there anyway around it(perhaps by insuring oneself against non-employment etc)? It's a mighty big gamble!

[Kerosine]

Hi Elsupremo, the simple matter is (when we remove the airy-fairy bits), it is a loan to be paid back with interest. CTC allow you to obtain the loan at a low (but variable) interest rate that you begin to repay 2 years after your training starts.

[ElSupremo]

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate that it's a loan to be paid back but it's just the thought that I will have £60k hanging over my head that I'm worried about. For example, if I can't find a job or am unable to complete training (for whatever reason) then wouldn't I be responsible for the money?

[dragonfly6]

ctc gave me every last peice of flight equipment i needed apart from a book for A5 aerodrome plates, some bulldog clips, and some fine coloured permanent markers for keeping a map and plog filled in. They will provide everyhting you need for ground study including study guides, online learning systems crp5's rulers compass, calculator etc. They even give you the uniform; in fact if you turned up in your underwear youd be fully prepared.

They were very thorough in giving information concerning what you need to do or take to NZ during meet and greet, they gave me a full checklist, however i did my meet and greet two and a half years ago.

El supremo - your opening a can of worms there. The inherent risk in deciding to train as a pilot is ever present whether you think your on a sposored scheme or not. The industry can be extreemely dynamic and somtimes not in a good way. Something you think stands one day turns out not to be the case the next with little or no warning. The course rarely follows the planned schedule, and the financial logistics present their own issues in an industry and economy that is constantly shifting.

Whether your position at the end of training puts you in a circumstance that still matches up with your initial contract with the bank is somthing you need to think about. You have to take a look at the industry, where its going and the economic climate and wiegh that up against how much you want to be a pilot. No short cuts or fail safes im afraid. Even on a sponsorship scheme like ctc the bottom line is you dont have a job secured when you take out the loan.

[craig2210]

Hey guys. Just wondering who is going to the CTC assessment on Tuesday 8th July as I am all booked up to go and was just wondering who else was joining me.

[bjkeates]

I bought a surf bus covered in flowers for about £300.
I seem to remember it being a plain grey to start with. On the evidence of how it turned out, re-painting by hand is definitely to be encouraged. If only I had a photo of it to upload...

Although it seriously questioned my manhood
You mean we weren't already?!:E;)

[dragonfly6]

guilty as charged. jesus keatsey,,, shhhhhh!

[Madhouserjd]

sorry to make this into a social thread, but i sanyone going for stage 2/3 on the 16th of july?

[99jolegg]

sorry to make this into a social thread, but i sanyone going for stage 2/3 on the 16th of july?

Check your Private Messages ;)

[jaimz1982]

Hi gkyip and Dragonfly6,

Massive thanks for the advice. I did think it too good to be true that everyone gets a job, passes etc. But as you both said it's the hard work and heads down attitude that will probably get you through.

I'm a little unsure of what the world will hold regarding employment in what 18 months / 2 years, but I'm hoping it won't be back to the day job with a nice little mortgage over my head.

Think the best thing to do is to go into it with eyes wide open and expect the unexpected. I know quite a few guys who have been through CTC / OAT / Cabair and a few fringe friends who have done FTE and all say they're envious of CTC's amazing record.

[Jamer]

Hello all,

This is my first post on the website! :ok:I'm afraid it's not very interesting though!

I have my stage 4 for CTC Cadets on Thursday in Nursling. Getting V. excited but just wanted to know how quickly CTC want you to take your medical after you pass stage 4. (I may not but fingers crossed!)

I need to know as it is getting more and more difficult to obtain time off from my exceedingly boring, non-flying job. The longer I can wait between thursday and the medical the better basically!

I look forward to perhaps meeting some of you in NZ soon!

CHeers,
Jamer

[ElSupremo]

Hi, I have one or two further questions which I hope someone can help me with:

1) How long is the CTC Wings course in total (i.e. zero - graduation)? Is it 14 months?

2) What percentage of the course is flying and what percentage is theoretical teaching towards written exams? Is it 50/50?

3) Is the theoretical side (i.e. exams etc) as hard going as, for example, a final year on a degree course in university etc?

[Rapha_BA]

Well I dont know if it helps but what I hear from a lot of pilots in my airline is that the point is not being "too difficult",because is not,is a A level standard,what is hard is the amount of information you have to take in,in a such small amount of time!And it feels that you are being tested all the time...well..you are in the end!I've checked the website and is about 18months of training!:ok:

[Kerosine]

Hi Jamer, glad to hear about stage 4, I passed stage 4 a few months ago so know exactly how you feel!

I have my medical booked for the 31st of this month so, so depending on when you're leaving, there's no real rush. It is better to get it all sorted as soon as possible, but as long as finances/medical/paperwork are sorted a few weeks before you go there's no-one reminding you to do it.

[Kerosine]

ElSupremo,

When I get home I'll pull out the course details to answer the first 2 questions. The third may be a little harder to answer, although I have been told it is more about knowledge retention than getting your head around tricky concepts.

This will give you a good idea as to the content

http://wiljam.com/subjects.htm

[gkyip]

Hi all, to answer some questions...

Jamer, well done on getting through to stage 4, you are going to love it! Let us know the result when you hear! As for the medical...I passed my phase 4 on May 8th and didn't have my medical until June 17th due to university exams. After your medical, everything else falls into place easily. I don't they mind too much how long it takes for you to get it as long as your course is not too soon. I start in september so I still have plenty of time. AFAIK at the moment courses for 2008 are full and they are currently taking places for early 2009 so if you pass phase 4 on thursday, you'll still have plenty of time! Good luck and enjoy yourself!

I'm in CP65 which starts Sept 8th. My course schedule has a provisional date of 25th January 2010 to start advanced training. (Advanced training is base and line training with your allocated airline so you'll already be doing your dream job of flying commercial airliners!) After that I think it's about 6 months of line training before you officially graduate from CTC and start earning a salary.

As for the practical flying vs ground school ratio it's not very clear. Much ground school is self study so depends on how much work youhave to put in yourself. CTC gives you a lot more flying hours than other FTOs though.

The ground school AFAIK is pretty much on par with A level physics and maths although I've just completed my University of Leeds degree in Aviation technology and a lot of modules in the course are ATPL subjects (avionics, aircraft electrics, meterology etc) but they're not too difficult to follow. CTC's selection screening will idenitfy your ability to cope with all the ground school. They look at your qualifications in stage 1. They have a simple maths aptitude test in phase 2 and they will learn a lot from you throughout the other phases of selection.

Hope all this helps,

Gary

[concordski]

In response to #1 Supremo, 14 months and 18 months are a bit optimistic, depends how you define the end point but nearer 2yrs from zero to airline-start with a TR more realistic.

[dragonfly6]

1) How long is the CTC Wings course in total (i.e. zero - graduation)? Is it 14 months?

Like i said you will meet twists and turns on the course. Zero to fATPL took me 22 months. Then youve got type rating base training plus any time in the hold pool - you may finish right in the middle of recruitment season and go straight to type rating or you might finish at the end of recruitment season and spend several months in the hold pool. Alot of people made it through quicker than others. Id say 2 years is a realistic target. It depends on so many things; if you are trying to learn all your initial visual flying mid winter and your unlucky with weather it could take you months and months to complete very little, if you do it mid summer you could do it in weeks. youve got aircraft goundings, course restructuring, fleet changes etc etc that could happen. You could need remedial training that might put you behind. 2 years is a reasonable estimate.

2) What percentage of the course is flying and what percentage is theoretical teaching towards written exams? Is it 50/50?

Alot of the theory is learnt on your own time so the ratio ground work:flying is whatever you make it. Id say 50:50 is reasonable. I managed to keep the course a 9-5 thing most days with the exception of the odd early/late flight.

3) Is the theoretical side (i.e. exams etc) as hard going as, for example, a final year on a degree course in university etc?

The concepts are easier in the ATPL's but there is a massive amount of info to assimilate in a relatively short period of time, its a case of putting the hours in. Id say a similar amount of work to final year at uni if your aiming at averaging high nineties (%).

[ElSupremo]

'Like i said you will meet twists and turns on the course. Zero to fATPL took me 22 months'

- Did the 22 months include any paid work from the airline or did your career start after this time?

'The concepts are easier in the ATPL's but there is a massive amount of info to assimilate in a relatively short period of time, its a case of putting the hours in. Id say a similar amount of work to final year at uni if your aiming at averaging high nineties (%)'.

- That should be ok as I've just completed a law degree where all I did was remember hundreds of facts, cases, statutes, articles for each exam/module and literally thousands over the entire course - it really was a remembering exercise.

Oh and thanks for your, and others', help.

[dragonfly6]

el supremo - check your PM messages

[Jamer]

El Supremo has asked a very valid question there. I notice you PM'd El Supremo. Could you tell me the same Dragonfly? As in, is there any paid work within the first 2 years? Just need to know as I have a mortgage so will be renting out my house until I start being paid again. Living with Mum at 25 not so cool! :bored:

Cheers guys and thanks for the words of congrats for getting to stage 4!! Will let you all know how it goes!

[jaimz1982]

If you think 25 and living with Mum aint so cool, try being 26 and living there! Man I miss my flat (rented sadly) Good luck with phase 4!

[Markos.]

Hi all,

I've passed Stage 1 on CityJet CTC program. I've been invited to an assesment day. Do I really have chances of getting selected for this programme or they just want me to pay the 176 pounds that the stage 2 costs?
What is te profile they seeking? Young people with A-Levels? Flying experience? Degrees? Age?

I'm very excited because I've passed Stage 1 but I guess this Stage is passed by almost everyone.

Best Regards,

Marcos

[akindofmagic]

I've heard a figure quoted of between 30-40% of initial applicants make it through to stage two...

[James D]

Hi,
Does anyone know whether you can apply for both the regular wings selection and the city jet wings programme? I've already got a date for stage 2/3 for the Wings selection, was wondering if the city jet selection was run separately, as judging by the info on the website it looks like the same selection procedure. If you are successful through the wings selection can you request to be put on the city jet programme?
Any info would be appreciated.
Cheers

[Jamer]

Hey Guys!

A big day for Jamer! I learned this morning that I have successfully passed Phase 4!!! WHoop Whoop!!

I am off to NZ in February! The flight sim went well, I even sort of landed. my trip along the localiser looked more like a child's drawing and I landed on the Starboard Wheel about 3 seconds before any of the others but hey, the aircraft stayed more or less in one piece.

All the best of luck to all of you with CTC phases coming up and if you are also going to NZ for Feb let me know.

Laters Guys!

James C.:ok:

[lo0ney]

I recently got through phase 3 of CTC selection, I was wondering exactly how much choice cadets have in where they end up at the end of the course. Ideally I'd go for Jetstar pacific in Vietnam or an easyjet job in Madrid. What are the odds of getting the job you want?

Of course I realise you have to be flexible I don't want to sound like I should be able to pick a job without any actual experience, I'm just curious to know what the possibilities are.....

[dragonfly6]

choice usually either easyjet or apply to BA with the odd option of a holiday charter cropping up for some cadets around december.

you would generally take whats available unless you felt the need to work for BA

[saintexupery]

it all depends on the pilot market at the moment. right now most of asia is going strong, so pacific would probably be a feasible option if u wanted to go there

if your choice airline is not recruiting at the moment i understand u can wait, some cadets did that to get into ezy i believe

[dragonfly6]

its difficult to say youd want to go to jetstar or y or z without seeing the terms and conditions. would probably make these choices closer to the time.

[Andy112]

What are the job prospects like for CTC graduates in the current climate? I've been thinking of applying for a while now, finished uni last year and am just saving some money at present.

I've been reading this forum for days solid - tons of awesome information in here. But I'm concerned that if I apply to CTC, get and and then qualify, that there seems to be a load of horror stories about pilots being unemployed due to low hours/no appropriate type rating etc. I'd rather not have £70k debt and a very slim chance of actually being able to fly :(

-Andy

[Sagey]

DJ do you really understand what the economic conditions are out there. This is not an aviation only recession. Companies are having their market capitalisation slashed. Large household names such as M&S are in all sorts of financial difficulties. The dreaded R word is being whispered all around the City at the moment. The Banks who traditionally provide the greatest levels of graduate salaries are not recruiting at the levels that they were even a year ago. Some are not recruiting at all. The job market hasn't been this bad since September 11th, the difference there was that it was an event that caused an economic blip and the economy recovered fairly rapidly. This is far more cyclical and therefore will hurt more. There are people with considerable debt out there, the reality is a lot greyer than you would imagine, otherwise everyone would easily be walking into jobs where you can service the substantial debt.

[akindofmagic]

To add to what Sagey has said: I completed the CTC Wings programme in March this year. I'm now waiting for Easyjet, which will hopefully happen in October.

I have had to get a job while I wait. I am a law graduate and I live in Newcastle. I was lucky enough to get a job with a start up company up here. My salary is around £20k (which is higher than trainee solicitors and accountants get up here). If I only make my basic salary (i.e. no commission) in a month, after tax, NI and student loan payments I am left with about £1300. My loan repayments to HSBC are something like £1200 per month.

Now bear in mind that Newcastle is one of the cheapest places to live in the country: there is absolutely no way that I could find a job up here that would allow me any money to live on in my first two or three years.

It is very definitely not as easy as "getting a degree so you have a fallback" or anything like that. Even trainee solicitors for a Magic Circle firm in London would only be making c. £33k in their first two years, and I know from speaking to mates who are currently on training contracts that they're struggling...and that's without an £80k loan to service!

You really do have to go into this with your eyes wide open. If you don't get a job with an airline for whatever reason, you are going to be faced with a huge struggle to service your loan; remember, if you want to live a £20k a year lifestyle with a loan that size, you need to be earning £40k before tax!

magic

[Sagey]

Trust me the recession word is being bounded around the City. I have 6 years experience working in the City and the feedback that I am getting from people is that it is bad, very bad. You quote negative growth, the FTSE is in and out of a bear market, shares are continuing to fall. Less people are looking to list, means that lawyers etc get less fees. Major financial institutions are going under in the US. Then there are people like Richard Branson talking publicly about how it is the worst period that they have ever know for the aviation industry (do a google search for Reuters article) Recruitment consultants will call, I get literally 20 calls a day but it doesn't mean that they have a job for you. Going to meet them also doesn't mean that they have a job for you, it just is basically them saying yep we like your cv and we will try and match you with a job. They do that to hundreds of other people as well, and at the end of the day they only want to get their commission.

[Sagey]

32K is a nothing salary if you have to make repayments of £12k. The time the tax man has taken his cut plus National insurance you will be left with an income to live on of about £12-13k a year. It isn't that easy to pay for housing, food and have a social life on that.

Sagey

[Sagey]

Virgin Atlantic owner predicts big changes in airline industry (http://www.asap.co.uk/news/virgin-atlantic-owner-predicts-big-changes-in-airline-industry-5633193.html)

Has a quote from RB

S

[The African Dude]

Good hard working cadets will always find work. It's the nature of life I disagree with you there David - they have done thus far but we have no guarantees at all. That's not to say it won't happen, but your best asset, as far as getting a job goes, will be a healthy dose of luck. Optimism will serve to keep you and your flight deck colleagues healthy mentally. By being any more certain about any job prospects, you are bluffing yourself. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Be optimistic by all means but the only time you can be sure to "always find work" is if you plan on working for yourself :}

[Bambe]

So what should we all do?????
Of course the mess is just starting but CTC is from far a better option than any other random self-sponsored training.

CTC provides about 250 pilots a year to the UK market (not only now!!!!) and I'm absolutely convinced that all of them will find a position.

I met a EZY captain who also work for CTC who told me .... So far 100% employment.
I won't tell anybody to go for a fully self sponsored way but I definitely think that CTC is and will always be a Quality label.

Then, I agree, working on the ground for couple months after the training is a kind of coming down, but it shouldn't be for too long.

Let us know akindofmagic.

[The African Dude]

If this is wrong then aviation really is a strange world It certainly is - and you can infer all you like, but this is a CTC thread so I'll be talking about CTC cadets, even though what I've said applies generally across the board.

Bambe - what can we do, other than play the game? Can't win if we don't :ok: There are jobs at the moment and CTC is a good place to be as a student/cadet/trainee/whatever.. Whether every hard-working cadet gets one, though, is something that only a crystal ball will tell you.

AD

[one post only!]

When it all goes a bit t*ts up I think you will be better placed as a CTC cadet than self sponsored etc.

However it is good that you do look at the risks, generate options and make a informed decision. This is what you are expected to do as a pilot after all!

Things are not going to be peachy over the next few years. Many airlines are laying people off already. This includes airlines who take a lot of CTC cadets. Don't stroll into it thinking I will get a flying job and if not pop down to the high street and be on circa £35K within minutes. Many companies outside aviation are offering temp contracts as they are unsure what will happen. It could be very difficult to finance that loan and live. Be ready to move back in with the parents!
RR are probably doing well as everyone moves to get new engines to reduce fuel burn and save money. Don't let one companies strong sales fool you.

However, that said you will have a much better chance of getting a job as the CTC brand is strong and well thought of by all airlines they deal with. There will always be jobs, they just might not be in the UK when you graduate. You are far better of with CTC than on your own.....

[BitMoreRightRudder]

I agree. CTC have a large financial interest in you once you have jumped through all the hoops on the course and have your fATPL. It is very worthwhile having them behind you, even more so when jobs are few and far between. But certainly having an idea of what you might do to earn some cash should you find yourself twiddling your highly trained thumbs for a few months as akindofmagic has mentioned is really important at the moment.

At ezy the latest ctc guys who have just come through type ratings and are doing their 6 months "probation" (lets face it, six months with no pay) are likely to be the first guys to find ezy don't offer them a contract once the 6 months is up. Clearly no reflection on their ability, more a reflection that times are hard. This is the feedback being given by the BALPA reps from their meetings with ezy management, and if this does turn out to be the case then it is not great news. I hope they all get permanent employment.

I'm not trying to cause unnecessary concern, but this is the reality of the situation out there right now. Two years from now? Who knows.

[EZYramper]

"At ezy the latest ctc guys who have just come through type ratings and are doing their 6 months "probation" (lets face it, six months with no pay) are likely to be the first guys to find ezy don't offer them a contract once the 6 months is up. Clearly no reflection on their ability, more a reflection that times are hard. This is the feedback being given by the BALPA reps from their meetings with ezy management, and if this does turn out to be the case then it is not great news. I hope they all get permanent employment."

Do you know exactly how long it will be until these guys (CP41?) find out whether they have secured employment or not, I would be very interested to know.

Thanks

[dragonfly6]

surely easyjet cant afford to pay 23 odd grand for a type rating so you can do six months (getting £1000 a month and having to be supervised by a third pilot alot of the time) then leave? It probably costs them somwhere around 35K to get a cadet through his line check. They wont get that money back. It would be cheaper for them to send you on paid leave till they needed another pilot. Im in the hold pool waiting for easy myself, maybe im suffering confirmation bias.

[jb5000]

Dragonfly6,

Point of information for you - the safety pilot is there for 12 sectors, so 3 days in total.

jb

[Pablo Martin]

Good hard working cadets will always find work as they will be doing everything in their power to ensure they get that coveted position. (I'll add in a note to say this doesn't mean only aviation)

Hold on a second, EZY don't discriminate. It doesn't matter whether you scrape through or pass with flying colours (no pun intended), at the moment its just a numbers. So don't go thinking that if you pass everything first time you'll definitely get a job... Trust me I did "everything in my power" along with everyone else but sadly, life's hard and if companies aren't recruiting... they just aren't recruiting.

Furthermore, I'm a cadet currently in the holding pool for EZY and despite having no degree, no experience and no previous jobs I found myself a job to service my loan quite happily. But that is almost certainly by luck more than my skills. So my advice to someone looking at going to CTC as a cadet now is, if you want it then go for it, sooner rather than later. Don't hang around and do a degree that isn't what you want and that'll get you into more debt. I'm living, breathing(most of the time) proof that it can be done. Just read all the contracts carefully before signing so you know where you stand and you'll be fine.

MP

[Pablo Martin]

Someone just scraping by will undoubtedly struggle to get into the likes of BA I'd have thought

You'd be suprised, some of the people I saw on JOC :rolleyes:

I'm on a 6 month contract with another airline working as ground-crew which I'm really enjoying, fantastic experience and good pay. So basically that is my alternative. Should I get to the end of that contract and EZY have still not come up with the goods then I guess I look around for another job, perhaps look at Cityjet, but given what were all hearing EZY are short staffed not to mention the rest of industry. It is just physically impossible for them to not recruit, pilots leave/retire/die(god forbid) and to keep the a/c going they need more people. Cadets are cheap and very well trained.

I just wanted to clarify, the EZY holding pool is not for the scrape through cadets who struggled, everyone there deserves to be there as they have survived a very very tough course and achieved a high standard. Not everyone gets into BA, there have been some very surprising assessment results (not including mine as I wasn't particularly surprised!) just goes to show that just being a good pilot doesn't necessarily make you a "BA person".

MP