The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2.

[Wing_Bound_Vortex]

Things that really make the programme different...hmmm....financing isn't too bad, unsecured loan as opposed to secured, able to cover almost all the costs, extensive sim time in the lead up to the IR, quite a few more multi hours on the a/c, and of course the big one being the tie in with the airlines.

Plus New Zealand is a beautiful country to spend the better part of a year in :) Kiwi's are very laid back :}

I guess for me the likelyhood of a job at the end of the training was the deciding factor, and believe me that's a big draw when you're investing all that money and time. There is a very good chance that as long as you pass the course you'll be employed and onto a type rating almost straight away. I don't believe there are many other courses around that give you that same feeling ( warm and fuzzy ), to the same extent as training with CTC.

However........

NOTHING in this game is guaranteed, and you could still be left holding the can if airline recruitment goes t:#s up whilst you're training, which could happen for very many reasons. That's the risk you always take, you've got to reconcile yourself with that before diving in.

CTC grads are pretty much the same as any flying graduate from a good flying school, as long as that school monitors and checks your progress to ensure you're maintaining high standards. We're no different to anyone else really, can't see any reason why we would be.

The training can be intense, not so much in NZ but from when you get back to the UK in particular to start JAR IR and CPL training. Expect to feel under heavy pressure at various times during your training with CTC, instructors complete progress reports on every flight and if you don't meet the required standards you will repeat required parts. There's only so many times you can do this before you get chopped, it can and has happened. I felt my CPL and IR 170A checks with CTC instructors( the flights you do prior to the actual flight with the CAA examiner ) were far more demanding than the actual flight tests, not in terms of the elements you have to complete but at the level you were expected to achieve.

I don't think anyone actually knows the EXACT arrangement between CTC and the airlines, and it doesn't really matter, CTC are a training provider, when an airline goes to CTC and requests pilots they know they are getting a certain standard, thereby reducing the risk exposure. You then become employed on a contract with the airline, not CTC.

Anyone wanting to know more feel free to pm, bear in mind i've been on the line with the big orange for about a year now so that means i'm a little more detached from what's happening with the course than i used to be. However from chatting with the new guys coming through onto the line i can see that most of the things that applied when i went through still do.

Take it easy

WBV

[Night_Flight_2007]

TommyKetch,

Thank you for your post! = GREAT INFO.

I have my stage 2 test next week.

Stuart Camaron 82, all the best on Friday!

Hope to see you all in the future, doing some multi-tasking, concentrating, calculating in an Airbus, Fokker or in a Boeing

Merci!

PD.

[Tamesy1]

Hello all,

Id like to know if anyone has experience of applying to CTC during their final year at uni, with the intention of commencing training soon after graduation? This is my preference, but if people think it may act to the detriment of my application i'd probably give it a little more thought!
Cheers
T1

[akindofmagic]

I applied for CTC while still at uni. I filled out the application form and the four faxed answers inthe April, then went for stage 2 on the friday of the first week of May, having finished my finals on the monday. It didn't harm my application.

[SA242]

Hi T1,

I applied to CTC at the beginning of my final varsity yr and finished my degree in feb. im off to stg 2 on the 16th Mar so wasn't a prob.

SA242

[Diabhal]

I've applied and I'm still doing my degree - MSci Physics at Durham. I'm going to be down for S2 on 23rd March, so it can't have hurt my application that much.

[Captain Spam Can]

Does anyone have any contact numbers or names, for insurance providers to cover loss of life and class1 medical? I havnt got a clue where abouts to look for the loss of class1 insurance.:confused:

[bjkeates]

If you've passed selection, CTC have contacts who deal with exactly the kind of thing you need. Don't worry for the moment - CTC will help you to sort it out.

[ziyad13]

Has anyone got their phase 3 on 28th march? im reapplying as a failed at stage 3 last time. How long does it usually take between completing phase 4 and passing your medical etc to them actually getting you out to NZ?

Ziyad13

[babolat]

Will be interested to know what A-Level subjects you guys have?

[alexjolly]

did maths, physics, geog and chem but the a levels aren't the important thing, as long as you have the right credentials (3 A-C a-levels, good gcse's and possibly a degree) then you shouldn't have too much trouble passing stage 1.
Stage 2 is a really straightforward maths test followed by a couple of tricky aptitude tests.
Stage 3 is the real test, yesterday was a battle of nerves and remembering all the research i had done on the company and its partner airlines. Even as someone who has hardly any flying experience, to be asked "If you were CEO of Monach, what issues would you address based on current aviation affairs?" makes you blummin' glad you were prepared!! Oh and most importantly make them know you really want the job!

But hey i still have stage 4 to go so i'm by no means home yet!

[babolat]

Thanks pal.

I'm already through stage 2 actually. I have chemistry and biology at A-Level and I'm still 18.

Just wondered if the subjects will affect the other stages.

[alexjolly]

Nope, as far as i'm aware the only point at which you could be pulled up academically is stage 1 so now its down to no-one but yourself! best of luck!

[RC203]

Alex,

Congratulations mate! I managed too, pretty chuffed! I think I was asked why I wanted to be a pilot about 3 times, I was paranoid there was some gem of information they were trying to get out of me that I was completely missing. Never mind. When's stage 4 for you?

Rob (gliding rob)

[alexjolly]

Good stuff rob!.
i have mine on the 29th of march....have to be at nursling at 6:30 what sort of joke is that???

What about yourself??

[Wing_Bound_Vortex]

Congrats guys. 06.30?? That's a lie in. Get used to it fella, this is the airline biz :E

WBV

[VikNZ]

Hey,

Just a quick note to see how anyone who has applied to CTC Wings from NZ has fared, and whether any of the preliminary parts of the selection process were able to be completed in Hamilton, rather than flying back to the UK...

Any info (or hearsay) would be great,

Cheers,
V.

[alexjolly]

Cheers WB,
I notice that you have been with EZ for a year now... how did that come about? did u get told your partner airline or did u feel that this one was right for you? You on the A319 or 737-300?? and finally and probably most importantly, are you enjoying it?!!?

[MajorYaw]

Hi all,

This is a question for current cadets on the CTC programme out in NZ.

I was just wondering what the recommended text books you use in the foundation are, and whether you're expected to buy your own or they are provided in NZ?

Although I've still got stage 4 + medical to get through, I'd quite like to start reading up anyway, to get a headstart if I'm lucky enough to pass stage 4.

Thanks a lot.

M Y

[akindofmagic]

One guy I can think of currently on the course is from Australia, and he was required to travel to Bournemouth to do the selection. I think CTC did make sure that he had all the phases in the same week, so it only required one visit.

The only selection going on at CTC Hamilton is for the new course which has been set up for New Zealand residents.

[SA242]

I am in a similar situation. I am going over for stage 2 from South Africa next week monday. Its certainly not easy when you don't have a permanent base to stay at between selection stages!

[A330 Dreamer]

can anyone remember how to do the last maths question?

It gave you one currency to convert to another currency - then convert that to another currency?

Could someone show me an example if anyone recalls this?

Cheers

[rusty_y2k2]

The questions are unlilkely to stay the same...

I assume you are talking about getting a question like "You have £314, how much is that worth in Euros? The Exchange rates are $1.7 to the Pound and €0.75 to the Dollar"

The answer is simple; You know how many euros there are to a dollar and you know how many pounds there are to a dollar. All you need to do is convert your pounds into dollars then from dollars into euros.

£314 is about $534 (314 x 1.7)
$534 is about €400 (534 x 0.75)

so £314 is about €400

[alexjolly]

comon a330, its really simple maths and probably the easiest part of the whole day. If you overprepare for the specifics of a question and its changed you're undoubtedly going to panic and then its all over!!

Its multiple choice so if you're really stuck just guess! saying that the answers stick out like a sore thumb so you should be fine!!

[pre3mhjt]

Rusty, Give up this pilot malarki, you should have been a maths teacher!

Of course, the other way to do it is to multiply the two factors together first (1.7 x 0.75 = 1.275) and then multiply the original £314 by the answer (314 x 1.275 = 400.35). However, like Alexjolly says, they won't be as hard as that; the numbers will work to give a nice round answer. Remember also, that this kind of question will be one of the last and also one of the hardest you are likely to get.

Don’t over think it; if you can multiply and divide and are confident with basic mathematical manipulation generally you won't have a problem.

Good Luck

Pre3

[socloss]

Hi guys,

Ive got my assessment next Friday and was just wondering exactly whats involved?

I hear there are the PILAPT tests but to what extent are there maths and physics tests? Have I missed anything else either? If anyone has any tips and can tell me exactly what to expect along with whats best to revise I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance......

socloss

[Polorutz]

Hi, im new to this forum but have been keeping an eye on it for a while...

I just had my phase 3 this week and got rejected, I do however get to reapply for phase 3 in 6 months and I want to prepare myself the best I can so I wanted to hear about people who have been there the second time and what are the main things that CTC looks for.

[alexjolly]

Hi Polorutz,
Im sorry to hear you didnt make it through stage 3, but its a positive that they asked you to come back 6 months later.

Although i did not have to resit stage 3, take some positives in the fact that a good friend of mine resat stage 3 about a year ago now and hes just completed his atpl exams with CTC so stick at it mate!!!

[newbie008]

I think the people that make would have thought of that 1! It wont work on other peoples computers as you need a password that they send to you

[alexjolly]

That software is utterly pointless....
The aptitudes are designed to not only test ure natural aptitude, but also youre improvement as you repeat the tests for a second and third time...
Getting good at certain tests before stage 2 will not be beneficial!
Also, the hardest tests are not included in the software according to those who did waste their money.
Everyone in my morning group bar 1 person passed stage 2!... you'll be fine!

[MajorYaw]

£50 or less is not a lot to pay for something that could help you achieve £60,000+ worth of training.

By the time you've gone through selection you could have spent a lot more than £50 in fees, travel and accomodation, so it's a drop in the ocean.

And the other thing is that the people behind these pieces of software aren't big companies, they're small time pilots and programmers. Why rip them off when their product is helping you achieve a really positive outcome?

[g1344304]

So CTC requires a £60,000 bond and as far as I can see there are no other costs involved. WEll what exactly does this price include? Do I have to pay extra for accomodation and meals? What about CAA licence issue fees? What about flights from UK to New Zealand? Can anyone shed any light on this?

Oh and they state on the website that the bond can be attained UNSECURED! Is this true? I am a 21 year old student graduating in June so I dont have a huge credit rating. All I have on my credit rating are mobile telephone contracts and normal bank account usage.

[SA242]

all answers to your questions can be found here http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings/040204.html#finance on the CTC website.

[nickbanksy]

hi, filled out my application fr ctc online the other day, and the next morning recevied confirmation i was through to stage 2, so booked it for april 2nd, as am still yet to tell my parents :P any1 else got stage 2 on april 2nd?? am quite nervous, not sure how im gona do on the aptitude tests! and with me being quite young not sure if thats a bad thing

[screaminlemmin]

Dont worry Nick, ive just done stage 2 and its not that bad. It tests for inherant flying ability, so u cant really practise it.
You say you are young... then i would say get lots of experience in, say, team working/leadership for the stage 3 interviews. Good luck!

[pmrsmiffy]

At phase 2, age doesn't really come into it. Well, age doesn't really come into it at any time for that matter. You've either got the skills and experience, or you don't. You'll find out on the day if you've really got what it takes.

I myself found the pilapt tests quite challenging and at the time I thought I had done badly but then got through. So just stay positive and keep that concentration up throughout the tests. You should be fine.

The only thing you can really prepare for is the maths questions. They're not too hard. As has been said. Just go over your long devision and long multiplication and it'll go alright.

[nickbanksy]

thanks, my maths isnt too bad, did alevel and do alot at uni at the moment with my economics degree. as for teamwork/leadership experience i have q alot from school, such as prefect, house captain, sports captain etc, and have flying experience by way that i was in the ccf and have about 8-10 hours flying and gliding experience.hopefully this may be enough to convince them im keen enough for it. rly hope i get through the selection, been wanting to be an airline pilot since i can remember!!!

[MajorYaw]

You can expect to have completed stage 2's tasks by 1.30pm. You'll then need to hang about a bit for the feedback to be given and a stage 3 date to be discussed, so if you budget for being done by 2.30 you should be ok. Let CTC know you have a schedule to work to and they'll take that into account.

Best of luck.

[nickbanksy]

the website says that the tests take an hour or so, so surely it wil be more like 2pm/3pm that you wil be finished.??

[oates76]

I just did my phase 2 on Friday. I was in the afternoon session (1300), and by the time you are done everything, it was around 1630-1700. The introduction talk lasts a while, but it's great and answers any questions you may have about the scheme. Then it's on to the testing, and finally the de-brief where you find out if you've passed or failed. Good luck to you all. It's a stressfull but enjoyable day. PM me if you have any other questions about it.

[ziyad13]

Hi

I've got my phase 3 on 28th march and would like to speak to anyone who has got through to the training who already had their PPL and what their experience of it was?

Hope someone can help.

Cheers

[pi2]

Normal guy here, getting through the stages and hopefully will get to NZ. Just wondering could anyone tell me what it would be like there as a homo, am not a flamer just a normal guy. Worked in industry as a closet case and don't want to do it again or would that be wise. pvt me any thoughts from people already there. Thanks.

[THRILLSEEKER]

Are you being serious or is this a total wind up!? := :confused:

[FrayCampbell608]

? Serious?

You could have gone down the route of 'I have a mate, who is a...'
It bears no relevance at all in my opinion as long as you will make a good pilot and can work professionally with others whilst being able to leave the blokes alone. do they serve Babysham in NZ?

[screaminlemmin]

I get the feeling Thrill and Fray have just answered your question...

[VikNZ]

Hi,

You'll find kiwis are generally a pretty relaxed bunch, not sure I can see the relevance of someone's sexual orientation to their training & flying.... gay or straight hitting on people that you're working/training with goes down just as poorly over here as anywhere else (unless of course, its reciprocated).

Its unlikely that you'd find Hamilton to be much different to anywhere else, (its just a whole lot smaller...) You'll get people who find it an issue and a whole lot of people who couldn't care less, probably more of the latter.

I believe we legalised same sex unions & other similar laws before the UK, so you may even find things more progressive here... if not Sydney is 3 hours away.... :)

Just a hunch, but you might find more useful info by checking Google...

Vicky

[pmrsmiffy]

The questions are on a sheet. There's plenty of space beside them to write your working on. Once you've got the answer it's a simple matter of circling the appropriate answer in the choices.

[globalste]

This is my 10p worth of my CTC experience:

[CptFuture]

That feedback seems pretty detailed to me!

(Personally I would take it, digest it and develop myself rather than splashing it on here though).

:}

[alexjolly]

Alright again mate,

Just one last question ... was there a lot to take in regarding pitch attitudes and engine power settings or did they run it through you with each maneuver?

Just wanted to make sure that i do have to be very much awake before the sim and take everything in!!

[alexjolly]

that was for screaminlemmin!!! or infact ne one who has done phase 4 on 737

cheers!

[pmrsmiffy]

globalste,

Interesting e-mail. I bet the CTC guys will be a bit miffed that you posted the entire thing here though. :}

Anyway, my actual concern was about your medical rejections. I also have astigmatism of the eye and while the optician I went to see said this shouldn't be a problem for being a pilot, what you said makes me worried. Did you ask CTC at all if it would be a problem? I'll e-mail them tomorrow though to hear it from the horses mouth. I'm really concerned now.

[rod_1986]

pmrsmiffy,

It's not CTC you should be asking about your eyesight, its the CAA; you can get the Class 1 medical requirements off their website. Believe astigmatism has to be less than 2 dioptres (should be on your glasses prescription) for initial class 1. And they've recently loosened up the renewal requirements, which is good news for the visually challenged like me.

If you can get the class 1, you can get on the course (provided you pass selection) :}

If its marginal, you can always fire off an e-mail to the medical boffins, I know a few people who got deviations for the eyesight requirements until they got a PPL :hmm:

[MajorYaw]

My understanding of the astigmatism was clarified by my optician recently. When I queried the parameters for astigmatism as detailed by the CAA, she advised that having an astigmatism that rendered you unfit for a class 1 medical would also result in you not being able to wear contact lenses. If you can wear lenses that sufficiently correct such a condition, you should be fine, so I'm told.

[globalste]

My astigmatism became too high for RAF flying, however what was mentioned about astigmatism and contact lenses isnt strictly true - quite a lot of people wear contact lenses and by that i dont even mean the special torric ones!

The problem i had with Aer Lingus was they had their own medical standards - they wouldnt allow anyone with eyesight worse than -1.25, this is quite easy to have if you are astigmatic.

As far as CTC are concerned it is Class 1 medical which you can get from the CAA's website. If in doubt you could go along for one but its going to cost you £400(ish).

I thought i would post my feedback up because I saw a lot of posts saying "no feedback" etc. It was quite comprehensive, but i felt it was contradictory eg. they seemed to focus on my only getting 5 C's at A-Level 10years ago, but didnt ask about me getting a 1st in Mechanical Engineering, an MBA or becoming Chartered. They said i didnt show committment but i said i would give up my cycling career and travelled all the way from Stockholm.

I dont know if i can re-apply to CTC, but at the same time Im not sure whether i want to now. I live with my SO and am a director at Brambles Group so Im comfortable in life, it also means I can easily plan my social life as a semi-professional cyclist (something which i told CTC i would give up to show my committment but it didnt seem to effect their opinion).

My comment to people would be that your career is reflected by the people that know you the best. People will think this comment is arrogant, but I had a lot to offer and the interviewers somehow missed half of what i said and focused on what i felt were trivial insignificant things.

[pmrsmiffy]

I just checked the CAA standards and it does indeed have to be less than 2 diopters. My glasses don't have my correction written on them but I can see fine without them and the glasses don't appear to make much difference so I guess i'm alright

[screaminlemmin]

Alex: The guy tells you 3 or 4 different pitch/speed/engine power combinations during the briefing. I think he told me during the excersise which to use at the beginning, but towards the end i have completely forgotten and ended up having to make large corrections as i was guessing at the combinations. Its easy to fly when you keep to these combinations using small inputs, but gets hard when you stray from them.

[alexjolly]

Yeh cheers Rich,
As long as it wasnt like 10 combos that would have been horrendous at 7am.!!!

So have you had your medical yet? and sorted out the finance?

Alex.

[screaminlemmin]

No dont worry there isnt lists of them
Medical is booked for monday, no idea how that is going to go!
Ive spoken to HSBC about interest rates etc. and worked out approx how much interest to pay back- almost had a heart attack (not good the week b4 a class 1 medical!)- and the insurances come to about 1000 :ooh: . Interview with HSBC on friday.
Passport also had to be sent off to the passport office, 'cos it expires jan-08. Lets hope it comes back b4 apr 4th! Also means i may have problems getting a visa, if at all- stress!
Im getting well psyched for NZ though, guna be awesum!

[alexjolly]

hehe, yeh 1000 smacaroons for the insurance,,,, thats more than i expected!, if you dont mind me asking... is the interest on that hsbc loan comical??? unsecured loan, young lad flying planes for the first time in a mountaneous region...... hmmmm.... catchingggggggggg $$$$
I had to update my passport too.... it should take 10 days turnaround so you should be fine!! 72 quid for that too tho!! its already adding up!

[bjkeates]

A grand for insurance?! :eek: That's gone up a little bit from last year... when I took mine out in July it was around £600 for everything I needed.

[screaminlemmin]

Dont tell me that keates! the spare 400 could have gone towards the medical...
The loan is 2 3/4 above base, so 8% currently, Variable rate. Assuing u r guna take the whole loan, the interest alone is greater than 45k :* over 7 years. Thats un-official though, its a figure i came up with in Excel and not from the bank its self, probably completely wrong knowing my maths skills!

[alexjolly]

yeh brambles told me it used to be about 600.... oh well just put it on my tab!!!
Its strange to think that if all goes well, i've got being owned by HSBC to look forward too!!??

[nickbanksy]

theres no way the interest on the loan is going to be 45k surely!!!??? so we are going to have to owe over 100k in total!?! well, i spose its not rly us paying for it if we get a job with an airline, just gona be tied in for the 7 years!! i am right thinking this arent i??i wasnt rly sure how the finance thing worked, we put down the 60k bond, and then when we start flying with an airline they pay it bak for us to the bank??

[screaminlemmin]

My understanding is we pay 60K to the airline effectively
The bank charges us interest at 8%var (including 8% on any interest owed)
Airline pays back 1000pm to us for 7 years = 84k
we continue paying the loan for a few years after that untill we personally pay 46k[total interest]-(84k[airlines]-75[total loan]k)=approx 37k :hmm:
Oh well, keep telling my self 'itll be worth it'
Or maybe 'my calc.s must be wrong, ignore it'

As i said, these are only rough calcs, I'd probably w8 till we get the HSBC interview where they will hopefully show up the repayent sched.

[pmrsmiffy]

From what I understand. The airline pays you back your bond so that you can then pay it back to the bank. The airline doesn't really loose out on it though because you will be on reduced pay for those 7 years.

The whole thing is very confusing and it's hard to understand who exactly is holding the money at any specific time.

[MajorYaw]

CTC said the interest rate was around 4% at the Stage 2 presentation, but this has probably increased with the recent base rate hikes.

Worth finding out from CTC whether the Airline's repayments are to cover the entire 60K + Interest then? If yes, then that would be fine, no sweat. If the repayment's fixed at £1000 per month, that's a different deal.

I am assuming here that if you take the 4k for the foundation plus the 10K living for two years, you'll be paying compound interest on the whole lot. On joining the airline and commencing repayments, you'll then personally have to pay back the 14K + interest. That's just like being a student again.

Which branch of HSBC do you have to go to for th loan/interview?

[ppl_student]

I can't believe you guys are signing up for this without fully understanding the finances!!

You borrow the £60k, plus additional if you need to.

You pay this to CTC...

When you complete the course, the bond is then transferred to the airline.

The airline pay you £1000 a month for 7 years, adding up to £84k, which is roughly the £60K plus interest, but obviously as interest rates have gone up recently and may fluctuate in the future, the airline's payment may not fully cover the interest. Anything additional you borrow is your problem, not the airlines.. so you will have to pay that from net salary.

So you get an extra £12k a year on top of salary. But, taking easyjet as an example, cadet starting salary is £24k... direct entry salary is £36k, difference being £12k... so makes no difference to airline.

[MajorYaw]

This is not far removed from what I understood the deal to be. And it's not a bad deal. Compare this with having to have a secured loan to get into FTE or OAT or whatever. There's loads of us who can't secure a loan.

Sure there's risk in the deal, but you takes a risk walking your doggy (cliché number 1!). Everyone who enters aviation these days takes risk and pays money.

7 years is a long time but like any loan, if you can throw in an extra £100 a month from your own money you'll save a lot on interest over the period, and the airline keeps giving you £1000 a month on top. If you manage to repay the bond earlier than the 7 years this way, you'll be accessing your direct entry salary earlier. Short term pain, long term gain (cliché number 2!).

The long term view is a reason to be extremely careful about how much you borrow/spend on top of the 60K, but now I'm just stating the obvious.

One more thing to mention for those who are just graduating uni with debts before joining CTC, is to do a little future forecast of how much they'll need to repay on their student loans once they start as an FO in 2 years' time. I dunno how the new scheme works but that nasty repayment could really cut into your funds. Best to work it out beforehand and know what to expect.

[pcoltas]

I was talking to a guy on my stage 3 selection yesterday who knew a girl who had flown out last weds, apparently the loan w/interest works out at £104,000 in total, that was including living costs as well.

Dont take this as gospel though, just what i heard.

I wont worry about it yet though, gotta pass stage 4 first lol

[nickbanksy]

104k sounds about right i would assume, with the 84k bond(inc interest) plus possibly up to 20k for living costs for the duration of training, depending on your lifestyle preference haha

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Just to throw a few more figures at you guys, an ezy F/O on the cadet scale takes home on average 2k a month. Thats after your monthly loan repayment has gone out. For those with Uni debts to service, the student loan people have finally caught up with me and I'm paying somewhere between 100-150 quid a month. It is a lot of debt considering that your next priority is probably a mortgage once you are settled at your base but it is manageable long term.

All the best.

[MajorYaw]

BitMoreRightRudder - cheers for the input.

Another question for those on or having completed CTC... How have you found the bond to have affected attempts to get a mortgage? Have banks told you to take a hike until it's paid off or have they welcomed you with open arms?

[ppl_student]

The trick is to get the mortgage first... then you have some equity in a property and the banks will be queuing up to lend you money! Meanwhile you can rent out the property so it takes care of itself and goes up in value... then you can sell it to help pay off some of the debt. Thats my plan anyway... although I already own my house, so maybe I'm biased.

[pcoltas]

so is £2k a month the going rate for f/o cadet for any of the ctc partner airlines or do some pay more/less?

they said at stage 2 the average salary on entry is approx £25k + £5k sector pay so sounds about right.

[g1344304]

So did you guys actually get the loan unsecured? The CTC website states that it can be attained unsecured and it sounds too good to be true.

Also, if it is true I take it the interest rate will be much higher if the loan is taken unsecured rather than secured on a property?

[globalste]

2000 per month in your pocket after tax, NI and pension is roughly equivalent to £33k salary.

If youre on £24k (the alleged going student pilot rate) then you will be going home with around £1500 per month.

Student loan is taken automatically from your pay packet before it even hits your bank so you will come home with around £1350 per month (depending on what your loan is)

If you are considering buying a house when you get back, a £110k mortgage interest-only will cost you around £450 per month or £650 capital repayment, so you will be left with no more than £900 per month to spend on living. Anyone who considers paying back more than the minimum per month may want to think again, also may want to consider renting a room to your fellow cadet mates!

As for renting a house when you are out of the UK, this means you are liable to on earnings and AFAIK, CTC do not pay Inland Revenue any tax equalisation. You may want to check this otherwise you will be landed with a large tax bill.

[globalste]

the loan CTC takes is classed as a professional study loan by the way, so its similar to having a student loan and so shouldnt influence mortgage applications etc.

[screaminlemmin]

Is the loan paid before tax, i forgot?

[globalste]

no chance mate, all loans are paid after tax and in proportion to your earnings.

See my previous post for approximate money in your pocket with a £24k cadet salary, its around £1400p/m (on a good day) before youve even spent so much as a penny.

After tax, NI, and student loan (excluding pension and any CTC loans) your take home will be:

£27k = £1550
£30k = £1700
£33k = £1850
£36k = £2000

[pcoltas]

yeah would be good to know what sorta difference % wise it makes on the interest rate if you take an unsecured loan against a secured one?

[PPL152]

Hello people
I have been invited for stage 2 this summer and am still in a dilemma to choose whether to go to University first or go to CTC. Pls note that in my country, we get paid to go to uni.

I would like to have a backup plan (degree) before becoming a pilot, however, I'm asking how will they take it? Will they cancel my application or keep it on hold?
Regards,
PPL152

[screaminlemmin]

I couldhave sworn it was b4 tax, OAT/NetJets was for sure, i assued CTC was similar. Its another thing i need to ask at HSBC during my interview

[MajorYaw]

Which branch of HSBC is it that you have to go to to sort the loan?

[akindofmagic]

The £12k paid to you annually by the airline to service the £60k loan for the bond is paid on top of salary, and is not taxed. Basically it's a clever accounting trick. Just so happens that the cadet salary is £12k less a year than the direct entry salary...:hmm:
Any repayments on the living expenses/ foundation course loan are payable from net earnings.

[g1344304]

"Hello people
I have been invited for stage 2 this summer and am still in a dilemma to choose whether to go to University first or go to CTC. Pls note that in my country, we get paid to go to uni.

I would like to have a backup plan (degree) before becoming a pilot, however, I'm asking how will they take it? Will they cancel my application or keep it on hold?"

Hey, I had the same dilemma a couple of years ago when I first heard of the scheme. I had done about 6months of university and I submitted an application. I was accepted to phase two but turned it down and stated that I had a long talk with family and have decided that it would be more beneficial to complete my degree first and asked if it would be possible to continue with my application then. I got an email back offering me all the support with my degree and that they hoped to hear from me in the future.

Well the future is now and I will be graduating in June. I have been applying to the Flybe MAPS scheme (got stage 3 next week) and CTC and I have my stage 2 assesment in April. My original application was still on file and I could still access it as I had the original emails from CTC including my login details. I simply updated the application, emailed CTC to have the account revalidated (as it had been suspended as per my request) and I submitted the application. Got the good news a few days later. Hope this helps you PPL152

[PPL152]

Thank you matey!
I think I will have to do the same then!
The course here takes 5 years so I will be 24 when I graduate hope that's not late!

Regards

[FrayCampbell608]

Fantastic, do the line firms mind current students applying though?
I think its excellent if we can apply whilst in uni and then secure ourselves once we start training it was just what i wanted to do once i finish my industrial placement and head back. I'll finish uni in 2008, cant wait!

[g1344304]

I heard you can defer entry for up to a year.

[nickbanksy]

i know this is off topic, but just been looking at the Flight Training Europe website, does any1 know anythign about this company, and what it is like in comparison to CTC?? i am already applying to CTC, but this looks like a similar programme and could be a possible plan B?

thanks

[ppl_student]

try doing a search :rolleyes: there are several threads about FTE and all of them contain the FTE v CTC debate... the flybe maps thread is also useful

[bjkeates]

MajorYaw,

In response to your question, the HSBC branch is Hythe (near Southampton.) If you're unable to make it down there, because it is miles away for most people, once you've agreed the stuff on the phone they'll forward the forms to your local HSBC branch for you to sign and send back. That's how it worked for me and it was pretty straightforward.

[pmrsmiffy]

Just a quick question. Exactly how much knowledge of the airline industry do you need to know for the phase 3 interview. Just the backgrounds and current issues of the partner airlines?

[pcoltas]

The questions are generally geared towards your level of experience. A few example q's I was asked..

*Who are the partner airlines and what aircraft do they operate?
*How many hours a day/days a week can an airline pilot expect to fly?
*Pros/Cons of being an airline pilot?
*What will you do if you are not successful?
*Did you consider the military? if not why not?
*If you had to make an unscheduled landing due to a sick passenger, who else would this affect and what would be a result of this?
*How would you persuade cabin crew to continue if they were over their hours limit for the day?
*If your captain was disregarding SOP's, what would you do about it?
*What NAV Aids do modern airliners use?
*What is the main disadvantage of GPS?
*What are the differences between an Airbus and a Boeing cockpit?
*What typical destinations would a 757 fly to?

Im sure people will be able to add more, hope the above helps.

[pmrsmiffy]

Cheers for that. That's a great help. Narrows down the multitude of information I was looking up.

[MajorYaw]

bjkeates,

Thanks for that. Didn't relish the thought of another major mission just to sign some forms, what with time off work etc.

Having said that, I've travelled further for the promise of a lot less than £60k, so what the hell am I bothered about! :)

[pcoltas]

no problem, like i said its just an example you might not get asked any of them, no two people on our stage 3 got asked the same set of questions becuase its geared towards your level of experience. They might ask you completely different questions, for example one guy was asked "besides terrorism, what is the biggest current threat to aviation and why?"

[alexjolly]

Yeh and i got asked if i was CEO of monarch, what steps would i take to ensure the long term prosperity of the company??!!!
RANDOM

[tommyketch]

CTC are expecting you to have a reasonable grasp of the industry and its partner airlines. They are not looking for massive business and/or technical insight. If you have a decent general knowledge and do some reading around publications and the general press, you should be able to get up-to-speed on the topics of the day, and back history.

Google is your friend.

Preparing answers for specific questions is tricky. If you learn material in a very set fashion, you may find you can only recall it completely when it's requested in the fashion you learned it.

Better to draft your own summaries of the industry and the airlines in a way that's meaningful to you e.g. SWOT/PEST analysis, mindmapping or whatever. If you can talk to yourself generally about each area, this will help you think on your feet and be better prepared to answer any question. Even if you didn't learn a specific answer, your wider knowledge will let you work something out.

There's not always a dead right answer to their questions. They are looking for someone who can assimiliate, analyse, answer and justify.

If they think you BS-ing, they will push you and cross check you, so keep it real.

If you really don't have a clue, admit it. Just make sure you don't end up admitting it every time you're asked a question. You can't know everything, so don't sweat it if you're not sure at some point. Keep cool, keep it real! :)

[g1344304]

Does anyone know what the wait is between stage 2 and stage 3? I have my stage 2 in april and I was wondering if i was successful, how long would I have to wait to complete stage 3?

[MajorYaw]

It could be the next week if you're available. They offered dates to my stage 2 group immediately after we'd passed the PILAPT tests. They're pretty efficient in this respect.

[pcoltas]

yeah also depends on when you are looking to start the course, i think theyre looking to fill dates as early as april at the moment.

i passed my stage 3 on tues and havnt got my stage 4 till 26th april which is 6 weeks away, but then again earliest i can start is july/august so there isnt really a huge rush.

[screaminlemmin]

Guys: after my post on finance the other day, ive been to hsbc to sort out the loan 2day, and the figures i used were VERY worst case scenario!
Appologies for that.
So, for the bond + 12kNZ$, interest = 29000
Living expences, interest = 4700
i.e. around 34K.

HTH

[Captain Spam Can]

Does any one know if CTC provide laptaps, before you fly out to NZ? I read on cadetpilot.com they had there uniforms, equipment and a laptop at the meet and greet before they went out. Just wondering before i purchase one.

[jimbols6]

Does anybody know at stage 2 if you fail the maths paper the (15 questions in 15 mins) is that it youve failed stage 2 regardless of how well you do in the pilapt or do they take you scores in the pilapt into conciderations? ie do you need to pass both the pilapt and the maths test?

any info would be much appreciated
rgds
Jimbols6

[bjkeates]

Captain Spam Can, CTC no longer provide laptops - you will need your own.

[pmrsmiffy]

jimbols6,

If you do well in the pilapt tests but just miss the grade on the maths one then you may still get through to phase 3 but you will have to resit the maths test.

It doesn't work the other way round however. You do not get a second chance at the pilapt tests. Unless of course you are invited to re-apply in 6 months time.

Don't worry too much about the maths. Just revise the necessary techniques and you should be fine.

[jimbols6]

Pmrsmiffy,

thanks ive been worried about it cos i think i did enough in the pilapt to get through but then wasted all the hard work away by messing up the maths paper. Got a nervous a wait over this weekend but i find out on monday, thanks for your info
rgds

Jimbols6

[nickbanksy]

can i just check, is there any cost for the stage 2?? i keep reading somethingabout £170 or so for stage 2, but i havnt had to pay on the ctc website when i made my booking for my stage 2 assessement??

[pmrsmiffy]

nickbanksy,

No. Previously applicants had to pay the selection costs at Phase 2. However, now you don't have to pay it until you have gotten to Phase 3. Something i've just had to do. £176.25 it was to be exact.

So, no need to worry about it just yet.

[screaminlemmin]

It used to be payable at stage 2, but now its payable at stage 3

[GWidgery]

With the initial application do you need to write anything explaining why you believe you should get on the scheme - or is it purely facts and figures and referees in the initial application?

P.S. I have tried to look myself, but I don't yet have my A Level results and can therefore not progress past that stage.....

[pcoltas]

nah nothing like that on initial app, that sorta stuff comes if you pass stage 2; you have to answer 4 essay-type questions.

[pre3mhjt]

That’s not how it was when I applied pcoltas. 1a was the simple facts and figures entry part; 1b was a 4 part written question/response (including why you believe you are suited to your chosen career etc); Stage 2 involved aptitudes and maths; Stage 3 consisted group exercises and an interview and stage 4 was a final sim check. Correct me if that’s changed, but I certainly wasn’t aware that it had.
Pre3

[ppl_student]

They said at my stage 2 they are in the process of changing the essay question part. It now comes after stage 2, before the interview (stage 3). However, if you have already answered the questions if you applied a while ago, then you won't have to do them again.

I got knocked back at stage 2 but invited back in 6 months. Does anyone know if I have to fill out the application again, or is it just a point of asking them to reactivate my application and then rebook stage 2? Am I anymore likely to pass the 2nd time?!

[pmrsmiffy]

The questions are:

1. What have you done to persue a career in aviation?

2. What qualities do you think a pilot of the future would need?

3. Describe a time when you worked as part of a team.

4. Describe a time when you overcame an obstacle.

I think that's pretty accurate from what I can remember. I don't have the original form, just my answers. They're not exactly essay questions. They're just looking for a couple of quick paragraphs for each one to find out if you have at least a basic interest in the career.

[pcoltas]

yeah thats pretty much them, the selection process has changed slightly now questions are done at end of stage 2 before stage 3, and £176.25 is now paid at stage 3 rather than stage 2.

[pcoltas]

no, after youve taken the maths & pilapt tests you will be told if you have been successful. If you have they will give you 2 sheets with the questions on, you have to take them away, answer them and then fax them back. They also email you the questions as a word document, I was told I could just type my answers in on that and email it straight back.

then after screening your answers, they will confirm a date for stage 3 with you.

hope this helps

[ribena]

Could someone either out in NZ now or has been please tell me what the standard week consists of?

Do you work each day whilst you are over there or are you given a set day off each week?

How many flying hours do you typically do each week?

Many thanks for your help


Ribena

[MajorYaw]

Ribena,

For an insight into life in NZ, check out bjkeates' blog here:

http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/bjkeates/

Although there are quite a few CTC-ers blogging, Ben's is the most detailed when it comes to writing about his flying antics. Most of the others are heavier on the pictures and lighter on the writing.

Hopefully, ben's blog will make you want to get on CTC even more, but you'll soon realise how fluid the scheduling is given the variability of NZ's weather. All down to some big bloke with a beard. And I don't mean Michael Fish. :)

[Barcelona cadet]

The same as PPL Student happened to me. I didn't pass stage 2 but was invited to reapply in 6 months time. I'm going to talk to them but if any of you knows what does reapply mean ( start again or activate again my old application?) it would be helpful to know

[screaminlemmin]

Hand test is 3 people, different shapes in each hand, facing away, from you, aswell as being positioned upside down/hortizontal.

The cross bar consists of 1 vertical and 1 horizontal bar- to shift vertical left, move stick left, to shift horizontal bar up pull on joystick ( i think)

need to recognise shape and colour by pressing colour button when shape appears, and entering number in the shape in the keypad

[d02473]

Hi

If anyone is on CP49 departing for New Zealand on the 2nd May can you please contact me.

Many Thanks

Tom

[alexjolly]

A question regarding the finance...

After HSBC give you the unsecured loan of 60k is it necessary to bank it in one of thier accounts or can you place the money in a high interest account of your choice...
I know of some that are almost 8%aer and even though the money comes out in packets every few months (reducing the interest)... making some money from something that u will be eventually splashing out a small fortune on interest must have been done before by ctc cadets???

Alex.

[FrayCampbell608]

Alex,

An excellent point, but i imagine their will be limits imposed on what you can do with the money, if it is a one off payment,it will probably never touch your account i.e direct from HSBC on your behalf i imagine, ANYONE HELP ON THIS??:confused:

With regards to paying in installments, high interest accounts have monetary limits and withdrawal limits too. I think its a cracking idea, and not one i have considered!

[alexjolly]

well the money does come out in installments... and obviously your interest rates will drop as money is withdrawn but theres no harm in having a direct debit out of an ISA if there are say, only 4 or 5 withdrawl packets... it just makes sense to do such a thing and if i pass my stage 4 next thursday its something i will totally attempt!!

[Streety]

To clarify...

The loan is organised through HSBC in Hythe, which funnily enough is just down the road from CTC HQ at Dibden. One of the conditions of the loan is that you move your current account from your current back to HSBC in Hythe. You will then have two accounts, one current account for day to day transactions, and one loan account to pay the bond instalments.

As for moving the loan into a high interest account, forget about it. The bond is transferred on a monthly standing order from out of your loan account, the benefit being that you do not have to take the full 60k out from the start; rather it accumulates over time with the monthly standing orders, reducing the overall interest over the life of the loan - don't ask me by how much.

Everything else regarding finance will fairly quickly become evident after passing selection, so the best bet is to concentrate on getting through that first, and worrying about the administration side of things later.

Good Luck!

Regards,

Streety

[alexjolly]

cheers streety...
another pipe dream it would seem! :ugh:

[rusty_y2k2]

Just to confirm the above, it is indeed done on a draw-down basis... to do it any other way would be rather silly on all accounts!

[ppl_student]

So what is the current interest rate on the loan? I'm wondering if it might be a better idea to apply for a further advance on my mortgage so I get it at the mortgage rate rather than whatever HSBC are offering...

[MikeAlphaTangoTango]

Hi

First post on pprune and it's about money. I wonder if that'll be an on-going theme...

I'm due to go to NZ on May 30th on CP50. Having met with HSBC last week, the current deal (unsecured) is 2.75% above their base rate, which makes it 8.0% (simple) or 8.2%APR. The £1000 a month that eJ cadets get doesn't cover all the interest, repayments are around the £1100/month mark, plus any living expenses you choose to take. And it's a variable rate so could go up or down.

One thing I hadn't really considered that perhaps I should have done is that taking a £60k+ unsecured loan is not exactly going to do wonders for your credit rating.... HSBC's words, not mine.

It's a huge punt to take, but if everything goes according to plan then the investment pays for itself in (just about) a reasonable length of time. A recession, drop in airline's low hours requirements, house price crash etc etc all leave us quite exposed. I reckon we'd still be solvent if the worst happens (wife with good job, house already bought) but there ain't much of a buffer :uhoh:

[g1344304]

So is the loan actually available unsecured? Will they allow extra for living costs?

[alexjolly]

yeh, HSBC can offer you the bond, living expenses and money for the foundation course... in exchange for your soul. :eek:

[g1344304]

yeh, HSBC can offer you the bond, living expenses and money for the foundation course... in exchange for your soul. :eek:

Il take it!

seriously though, unsecured??

[alexjolly]

yeh its unsecured

[mbcxharm]

The HSBC loan interest rate starts out at 2% above the Bank of England's base rate, and then gets realigned with the base rate + 2% during a yearly review of the arrangement if the base rate has changed in the meantime. Therefore I would suggest that if you have alternative methods of financing it with, for example, a remortgage, then this would be cheaper in the long run. It is easy to make overpayments to the loan account by simply transferring any extra cash you earn into the account to reduce the interest which is paid in every 3 months.

It is unsecured.

[nickbanksy]

hi, just a quick question. after reading through the ctc site, for the millionth time i guess!! i read that the foundation course which cadets MUST do before basic training comences, costs 12,000 NZ$ , is this part of the 60k bond we put down, or do we need to finance this seperately, i am not sure and hoping someone can tell me? i have the task of telling my dad today about my plans as im in my first year uni at the mo and wil leave if i am successful with ctc selection, and so i need to know the inside and outs of the finance arrangements!! thanks

[GWidgery]

the NZ$12k is on top of the £60k loan that you need to take. But you get the money back at about NZ$140 hr for the hours of the 60 (i think) that you don't use. So of course a person who has not flown will probably need the majority of those, whereas someone who has a PPL and uses it lots won't need very much of that at all.

GWidgery

[pmrsmiffy]

You are liable for the $12000NZ cost of the foundation training. However, if you do not have this money to hand then you can have it added on to your loan as well as living costs for the 2 years that you will be training.

Any lessons that you do not use during the foundation training will indeed be paid back to you at $140 per lesson. Should you require remedial lessons above the standard amount(which CTC says is almost unheard of) then these will be charged to you at a cost of around $240 per lesson.

[nickbanksy]

does anyone have a good estimate of how much a loan you would need to take out to cover the bond, cost of foundation course, and living etc for the duration of training?? would be helpful, thanks.

[g1344304]

well the bond is £60,000, the foundation course is around £4,500 sterling and then you have to live in New Zealand for 11months, provide your own food. THen there are living costs while in the UK, however CTC does give £1000 a month allowance once you enter line training i think (probably after 18months). Budget depends on your own living costs, I would include a return flight (around £750) to auckland as I want to come home for christmas but many dont. £70,000 absolute minimum but to be comfortable I would say £75,000 (however I am a student and am used to living on very low amounts of money!)

[jimbols6]

Are HSBC really gona lend 75k unsecured has anyone actually had this amount???

[pmrsmiffy]

Yes, the loan is unsecured, yes you can extend it for Foundation Course and living costs. This is actually stated on the CTC website should you care to read it.

Not meaning to be rude, but when people say things on these forums, they don't lie. And the majority of the time, the answer you are looking for can be found without having to ask.

I suggest reading the last 6-7 pages of this thread again where the loan has been discussed in some detail.

Glad to be of help. :)

[nickbanksy]

thanks for the info on the loan!! 75k sounds a good amount i guess, am a student too, but used to spending lots!!! will all have to change i guess! the foundation course works out at quite good value for money i think if you look at the cost per hour of flying, much cheaper than somewhere privately in this country!if i get there ill prob do the full 69hours, and go for JAA PPl aswell, while im at it!

[nickbanksy]

wasnt going to post this as i dont know whether its covered before or some1s mentioned it, but am quite frustrated about the whole thing at the moment, i am first year uni, and am applying for the ctc cadets scheme. i am potentially giving up on my degree to do the flying training and become qualified(hopefully). by the time i would have finished the ctc training i will be 21, so realistically what would my chances for employment with an airline be?? with a small debt from uni, and then the 75k loan on top of that, i would be in a whole world of trouble if i was to be unemployed for years afterwards, especially with no degree, and a debt of over 100k under my belt (with the interest). am just very confused and worried about what decision to take at the moment...

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Mate thats the risk we all took to get the job. If you leave uni and go to CTC now you will have lots of debt. If you finish uni and then go to CTC/whoever you will still have lots of debt. You want to be a pilot so you are going to have to pay to get into the club however you choose to do it, unless you go via the RAF.

If you feel you can't wait then go for it, a mate from my course quit uni half way through his degree to go to NZ. Plenty of other guys did. Personally at your age I'd finish the degree, but thats just me. CTC won't guarantee you a job - they can't, but they haven't failed to place a cadet with an airline yet.

[PPL152]

I personally applied to CTC and was selected for stage 2. However, if I get on the course I want at university, I will probably have to give up CTC for now and go to uni first.

Again, I think that having a degree is important for many reasons. It provides a very very good backup if you work as a pilot. There are two main factors which make a pilot's job very unstable:

1) Airline financial status
2) Pilot's medical

If one of these is off, then you lose your job. I know a few pilots without a degree who eagerly want to study for a degree or maybe get into another job (like part-time instructing) so that they minimise the risk of losing a job.

I would definitely recommend university first if you made it to the course you like. Otherwise, it's a different story.

[MajorYaw]

I feel your pain and think you are wise to question what you are potentially getting into.

In terms of age, I wouldn’t sweat it too much. I am trying to get into this game and I’m nearly 30. I am prepared to take the risk for the chance to spend the rest of my life doing something that will make me truly happy every day, instead of just another job. I have been warned that at my age, I may be less attractive to airlines, but I believe I can counterbalance this with a lot of hard work, enthusiasm and a mature perspective supposedly gleaned from “life experience”. :) Not to mention that even at 32, I still would have up to 28 years of jet flying to get out of me, which is plenty. I’m prepared to take the risk because this is what I want.

Regarding uni, if you’re doing a degree that you really like, you may be advised to see it through. One little bell weather is to look now at all the jobs that you could apply for were you to leave uni without a degree. It’s a bit frightening to see how low down the food chain you are, and the crap money and positions you’d take up. That thought kept me in university at least once.

If you’re careful at Uni, you can limit the debt you leave with. This is probably easier if you’re aiming at CTC on graduation. At least then you’ve got a big reason not go on crazy spending sprees. Get a part-time job and save or offset your debt. On graduation, you could work for a year to partially repay your debt, get commercial experience to enhance the CV and get more life experience and some training. Then go to CTC. Explaining that you’ve successfully implemented a 5 year plan to be fully prepared for all eventualities is more likely to impress than disappoint them.

Personally, I would not miss out on the chance to have the freedom and great times uni affords. There’s never another time in life where you can do what you want to such an extent. You’ll graduate at 24-ish with more experience and a better chance of getting through CTC’s selection process, you might have been able to fly in your UAS etc and you’ll have a degree to give you more employment options should flying not work out.

On the debt side, you can limit your student liabilities through being prudent. You don’t repay until your earnings hit a certain amount, so no one’s going to knock on your door till you’ve got a job. The CTC debt is something you must accept with a degree of bloody-mindedness. There’s no getting around it. Just be grateful that CTC allow you the opportunity of an unsecured loan. Think of the bigger risk of securing the debt against, say, your house and what would happen if things went belly up: debt, disappointment, and no house.

If you have misgivings about going for this right now (because of the opportunity cost of what you feel you have to sacrifice), maybe it isn’t the right time for you. Don’t rush into this without being ready, otherwise you may regret it and might not perform to your max if you start the course.


Just my 0.02.

[stevoneil]

Hi

I have recently applied to CTC wings to become an airline pilot. I was successful in the first stage of selection and ive been invited twice by the admin team for the second stage of interview. Unfortunately I didn’t think about the lack of access to the £60,000 required to complete the course. I wonder if anyone has had experiences with them through training etc that might be able to advise me if this is something I can still follow through with or should I forget about it? Any advice would be gratefully received

[AlphaMale]

You could try HSBC but I think they are lowering their Prof Pilot loans from £50k to £25k dur to so many pilots declaring themselves bankrupt. HSBC only offer this loan to OAT and FTE or CTC students. This is only what I have read on this forum mind.

Good luck. Not sure CTC would be too impressed that you can't plan your finances though. If you can't plan where to find £60k before wasting their time I am not so sure they will have the confidence in you to plan a transatlantic flight :bored:

[Wing_Bound_Vortex]

steveoneil,

Look at the thread in " interviews, jobs and sponsorships " section. All your questions answered there. But basically the 60,000 pounds + for training is covered by an unsecured loan from HSBC, which providing you pass Ctc selection, is made available to you, signed in your name.

All this info is available on the Ctc website as well r.e. financing, i suggest you read it before turning up at stage 2, you need to know what you are getting yourself into.

WBV

[MajorYaw]

Interesting snippet of info from a current CTC-er that states:

"We were recently given a speech by the head of training out here and it seems that after all the confusion and hoo-ha I found out that my CP course is not integrated, but part of the original modular syllabus. What difference this will make to my destination airline is probably quite minimal, as I still thing CTC is still the best training organisation in terms of getting a job afterwards. Its all been really frustrating as nobody seemed to understand what was going on out here, including the NZ staff, but at least now its all been sorted and confirmed as modular. At the end of the day, I still wanted to undertake my flying training with CTC and the whole integrated course was really just a bonus."

This guy's blog is http://flyingtraining.*************/ and he's been out there since Xmas 2006.

Now, if I remember correctly, CTC were marketing the course as integrated, yet apparently it isn't.

Would anyone with experience care to comment? What are the implications for trainees i.e. I hear that some airlines do not take pilots from modular courses (partner airlines not incuded) so could a CTC trainee be disadvantaged later in their career? etc...

[SA242]

Well if I remember, BA used to not take modular although I stand corrected. As you know BA is now a customer of CTC taking Wings Cadets so there is absolutely no serious difference at all here regarding modular vs integrated at all.

[ppl_student]

I read somewhere that it was modular due to a technicality... I *think* because they use bristol ground school. But something has changed recently and it's now technically integrated.

[MajorYaw]

The BA position is what I understood.

BA, however, do not appear to me to be the same status of partner airline. The way I interpreted the BA relationship was this:

BA acknowledge that CTC cadets are a resource to be considered for BA recruitment purposes. A CTC cadet is subject to the BA recruitment process e.g. the fully assessment that any applicant goes through. This suggests that CTC training confers no benefit when it comes to BA recruitment.

If BA's policy is to recruit students of the integrated route only, perhaps they will cease to be considered a "partner" airline.

Compare BA to, say, Easyjet who apparently do not put cadets through their own specific selection process (if you consider 6 months line experience not to be a selection process).

There's a marked difference here, which is why I don't think BA are the same kind of "partner".

[MajorYaw]

pplstudent - check the blog. This guy was told "modular" some time between Feb 19 and March 11. I had heard (prob from here) that CTC went integrated sometime before Feb.

From an "eyes open" perspective, I think it's important to turly understand the position here.

Any input from past or present CTC-ers would be appreciated, otherwise this is pure conjecture and of extremely limited value.

[SA242]

BA is a standard partner of CTC but they just happen to have a company policy of placing the CTC cadet under the standard interview process before going online with them. All it means if I understand this correctly is that if you as a cadet are ear-marked for BA then you must then just go through the BA interview process just so BA are sure they like you. I stand corrected. Best person to ask would be one of the chaps from CTC19 who is with BA.

[screaminlemmin]

My understanding: CTC has been modular up untill now, apparently the CAA may be allowing CTC to sell their course as Intergrated with in the next few days/weeks. I think this applies to courses cp46 47, and almost definately applied to cp48 onwards.
Intergrated or not; it wont affect your employability after CTC- you will still be employed by their partner airlines

[pmrsmiffy]

I've just been reading about the Thomas Cook/Mytravel merger. Does anyone know what this will mean in terms of being selected. Is there now one less partner airline or will they continue to recruit seperatly?

[Diabhal]

I was at CTC phase two yesterday in Bournemouth, and the staff there stressed heavily that the course was integrated and not modular. Whether this is just for courses starting in the near future, has already been enacted or has been the case for some time I don't know, but if you are currently going through the application process and have yet to start you are likely to be going into an integrated course rather than a modular one.

[Edit] At what point do you need to have your Class 1 secured in the application process? Do CTC expect it before stage 3?

[Fat A1bert]

Diabhal,

Medical only needs to be done once CTC have made you a conditional offer following a successful stage 4. The medical doesn't come cheap - so CTC deserve a pat on the back for not requesting applicants have the medical as an initial requirement (i.e. before stage 2) like other training organisations.

There is nothing stopping you doing it at any point however.

FA

[Wing_Bound_Vortex]

BA do take modular trained guys, but only those with previous airline experience before applying i.e not straight out of flight training wth a cpl/ir.

Being modular trained is no barrier to BA but it won't be the first job you'll get.

WBV

[MajorYaw]

WBV - thanks for the input, interesting to know.

[THRILLSEEKER]

Just to point out BA have in the past taken a cadet from CTC straight out of training and the route for that guy was modular

make of that what you will

[Wing_Bound_Vortex]

In ref to Thrilseekers post, to make myself clear, i was referring to other lines of training in the main. If you've been through CTC then even though you are technically modular trained BA won't look at you any differently from an integrated student.

WBV

[ziyad13]

Hi

Did anyone have their stage 3 with CTC yesterday in bournemouth? Jus like to know how people got on?

Ziyad

[The Mixmaster]

Ez Ziyad mate it's Rory. Still no word my end from them....just want to know the biz asap! Hope your interview went well and good luck!

[The Mixmaster]

Good luck to everyone else that was there yesterday by the way....proper sound bunch of lads.

[alexjolly]

that was awesome! just had the privelege of flying with no other than Chris Clarke in the cockpit of the new 737 simulator at nursling ... The fixed projection was double booked so we got to use the newer one (altho motion was turned off :hmm: ) and i most certainly didnt expect the captain of ctc to be taking the assesment!!) Got to do a takeoff, circuits and a landing... which was ace ... think i did alright although i wont know until i get the phone call either way.. great fun nevertheless!!!!

fingers crossed!

[ziyad13]

Alright Rory,

Jus found out i got thru, am pretty goddamn relieved, been bricking it all morning! Got my stage 4 on April 19th. Good luck to the rest of the lads who were there yesterday, let me know when your stage 4 is if you get thru which hopefully u all did.

Ziyad

[screaminlemmin]

Sounds like you had fun Alex, Good luck mate, fingers crossed for u!

[alexjolly]

yeh cheers rich.... aparently i find out today so at least the wait isnt as painful as phase 3!!

[The Mixmaster]

You're telling me Alex..any more of this waiting malarkey they'll need to send for the white-coat brigade!

[MajorYaw]

Ah! The suspense of waiting for our stage 4 result is killing me! I am trying not to over analyse my performance but its difficult. This morning was a real privilege though. Thanks CTC!

[MajorYaw]

Ah! The suspense of waiting for our stage 4 result is killing me! I am trying not to over analyse my performance but its difficult. This morning was a real privilege though. Thanks CTC!

[The Mixmaster]

Just got the email, stage 4 here I come!! When are you doing it Ziyad? I'm on for 19th april at 1200. Effin' sweeeeeeeeet!

[ziyad13]

Nice one mate!

I just got told to get to nursling at 0800 on 19th so i guess ill be seeing u there! pretty sweet getting thru isnt it? were u told to get there at 12 then?

[newbie008]

u 2 got ppls? or nothing in way of experience??

[The Mixmaster]

Mate, it's such a relief, especially considering it was second time around for both of us, must have been the sneaky game of pool and a bit of Neighbours banter which put us at ease! Proper buzzing, although there's still one more hurdle to jump over, should be all good tho. I hope some of the other guys got through, reckon it was a pretty strong bunch of candidates. They said get there for 12 for a 1pm start yeah.

@Newbie..I've got just the 6 hours of flying but I believe Ziyad has a PPL.

[alexjolly]

phase 4 is class guys.. best of luck .... i got my phone call this evening.. im offski on the 31st of may by the looks of things.

[Captain Spam Can]

Im due to go out to NZ soon, and at the meet and greet they mention groundschool is done by CBT on there computers. Do you still get the manuals and CD rom from bristol? I would rather do most of my studying in my room in peace, and also i prefer manuals to cd rom.

Thanks

[alexjolly]

my mate who's just got his atpl results back (98.5% ave!) had a huge folder to revise from... so i guess yes u do.. he told me its all about past papers.

[pre3mhjt]

Ziyad13, Mixmaster and Alexjolly et al, no offence lads/girls, but there is a perfectly good thread to be found here:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=252747

that is specifically for those "did you/didn't you pass", "when are you going here/there" comments etc. It becomes very tedious reading through all of this to find some genuine questions to answer. It took some persuasion to get the thread opened in the first place, so let’s use it eh?

Spam Can,

ATPLs are done using Bristol Ground School through a computer program called Tracker. It can be accessed from all the cadets' rooms and from any of the briefing/learning rooms at the airport. You will also be given several folders that contain exactly the same information (in case you can learn better the old fashion way). Hope this helps

Pre3


Alex Jolly,

Congratulations mate, it’s not an easy selection. Be seeing you out here soon (that should probably be in the social thread?)

[JulietEchoZulu-Mondo]

Wow Pre3jhmt, you certainly seem well clued up about how all these ATPL's work. It sounds like you're very experienced in the ATPL studies and certainly work very hard to get through them. :hmm:

[pre3mhjt]

I said it "can" be accessed, not that I ever actually accessed it!!

[ribena]

Hi Pre3mhjt,

Sorry to go over the matter, but do you still given the bristol.g.s. text books. I’m only confirming because at our cadet development day we were told that it was now all done on the computer and that the text books were no longer issued


Many thanks

Ribena

[PAJ]

Hi guys and gals

I was just wondering how long it tends to take for CTC to get in contact with you after Phase 2 to offer you Phase 3 dates? Just passed phase 2 yesterday with a top bunch of guys and from the sounds of it, a fair few of us made the cut and we are all anxious as to how long we are going to have to wait!

Also, I have trawled this and the previous thread and have some great info on phase 3, but anyone who wants to add some sound advice, interview questions you were asked or any further advice about the team exercises, please do as I'm sure there are a number of us out there who would be very very grateful!

Regards

PAJ

[Captain Spam Can]

I didnt even get home when i recieved the phone call to say i passed i was invited for phase 3 a week later!!!!!!!!!!

[MajorYaw]

PAJ,

As others have said on here, it's pointless working on specific "CTC" questions. Competency based questions are the norm for most job interviews and are straightforward to prepare for, as they are all about you. The industry and flying aspects are covered in people's previous posts.

There's a lot of questions CTC could ask you, and they apparently keep their eye on here, so anything posted would probably end up not being asked, and your efforts to prepare for such questions may ultimately be wasted.

Focus on building a rounded awareness of the major issues in the industry within Europe, now and over the last few years, the partner airlines and general flying stuff. You probably won't know everything, but they don't expect you to. If you have a decent level of familiarity, you can reason over questions you don't know outright.

Critical of course to be prepared for and know how to handle competency based questions. You need to communicate who you are, what your achievements have been and how you went about achieving them in the short amount of time allocated to your interview.

What I have just explained is essentially what CTC told us to do at stage 2 in preparation for stage 3. Trust me, it's true.

Best of luck.

[Gingerbread Man]

Hello,

I tried applying to CTC online and had trouble with the University part. You weren't allowed to put a predicted grade, or leave it blank, and I haven't finished my final year yet. What do I do? Do I have to wait till i've finished?

Cheers

Ginger ;)

[g1344304]

I put my predicted grade and in brackets put: (predicted, current average = )

something like that should do

[ziyad13]

Just a quick question for poeple who are in new zealand at the mo or have been already, regarding the leave that wings cadets get from nz, how much time exactly do you get to come home for excluding time spent back here for exams etc?

[pcoltas]

i'd like to know that also, do you get leave at xmas etc?

[MonarchA330]

Excluding the time spent in the UK for exams, if you're in NZ over Christmas/New Year there is usually a 10 day break where there is no flying. You're free to do what you want with this time. Apart from that, you get 2 days off every 5 or something like that I seem to recall.
M330

[bjkeates]

You can't do more than 6 days consecutively, and you must have at least 3 off in every 14. That's the basic rule. But there are no "school holiday" type leave periods, apart from a break over Christmas and New Year. You can request leave, but you have to specify why you want it and it's not automatically granted.

There is time to get back over Christmas if you so wish - a few of us did - but bear in mind it's the height of summer in NZ at that time, and many people use it to go and see a bit more of the rest of NZ, which you won't have a great deal of time to do otherwise.

[pcoltas]

how much did it cost to fly back at xmas?

[g1344304]

A return from auckland to heathrow is in the order of £725-£750. Singapore airlines is usually cheap

[bjkeates]

You will need to book way in advance. I booked in October and Singapore Airlines was sold out; the only flight I could get was on Emirates (a silly route with loads of stops) which cost about £1200.

[pcoltas]

Yeah was expecting around the £600-£800 mark, just to clear up the course structure, is it 9 months in NZ then 5 months in UK? Is the time in NZ done all at once or is it split up with the time in the UK?

[screaminlemmin]

For time scale, my course starts 9th apr in NZ, coming back to the uk 22nd oct with 1 week leave before bristol GS. Leaving for NZ start of jan untill end of mar where we go back to bristol again for 3/4 weeks.

[pcoltas]

cheers mate might see you out there then if i pass my stage 4 on 26th april and theres room left on the 22nd august intake!

[Barcelona cadet]

Does anyone know how many girls have made it to NZ ?

[MajorYaw]

I asked Chris Clarke about this and he told me that only about 2% of cadets are women. A recent edition of CTC news has an article about a graduation/awards ceremony in Q4, 2006 I think, and there's two ladies in a group of about 30. I met one of them at the London Airshow 2006, and IIRC she was line flying for Easyjet at the time.

[MonarchA330]

What Major Yaw doesnt say is that this low figure is mainly due to the fact that not nearly as many girls apply in the 1st place as boys.
Unless this changes, you're always going to get fewer girls who make it onto the course than boys.
As far as Im aware, the percentage of people who make it through selection is the same for both boys and girls.

[femaleWannabe]

I failed stage 2 but can apply again in 6 months. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether this is worthwhile? i.e. Am I actually likely to have improved by next time? Anyone been in a similar position and passed 2nd time round? What do you think you did differently? :)

[The Mixmaster]

Female Wannabee....I'd go for it, CTC have stopped charging at stage 2 anyway, you only have to pay at stage 3 onwards these days so what have ya got to lose! Also being a bit more familiar with it second time around might help you settle and get better results.

CaptainFlash..i failed the maths test but passed at the resit at stage 3. All I can say is to geek it up to the max and revise like hell. Personally I took it too easy the first time thinking that i'd ace it, whereas in fact I'd pretty much forgotten how to do long division! It defo helps to do lots of practice sums beforehand.

[pcoltas]

depends what you failed on, afaik they dont fail you at s2 if you dont pass the maths they just make you re-sit at stage 3, so i guess you could try getting the pilapt-prep/cockpitweb programs and practicing on them!

for anyone who needs to brush up on maths i highly recommend this book, i used it for my stage 2 and found it a massive help, especially as i hadnt done some of the stuff for years.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Speed-Mathematics-Secret-Skills-Calculation/dp/0471467316/ref=pd_bbs_1/203-8499625-0282312?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175594888&sr=8-1

[JulietEchoZulu-Mondo]

At the moment there are 3 girls out here, and one has just gone home. I cant talk for previous courses but out of about ~100 cadets out here, that 2% quoted doesnt seem to be far off.

[Montstable]

Hi Tom,

I will be leaving for New Zealand on 2nd May. Have you got the meet and greet event on the 18th April?

Craig

[socloss]

Hi guys,

I have my phase 4 sim at the end of the month and was wondering if anyone can offer any advice on how best to prepare for it. I am so pleased to have got this far and just want to get over the final hurdle!:eek:

Thanx....

socloss

[d02473]

Yes Craig

Im out on the 2nd, meet and greet on the 18th April, subject to medical tomorrow

TOM

[MajorYaw]

Well, my celebrations have been temporarily beached! I spoke to HSBC yesterday to get an appt to do the paperwork, and ask some more detailed questions about the finance. Talk about a wakeup call. The stark reality of taking out a personal loan for £60k+ feels a bit different when you are about to go and do it.

Remember kids, this isn't a "bond", it's a loan with all that that implies i.e. kiss goodbye to most mortgage lenders wanting to deal with you afterwards.

HSBC told me that they have arranged some mortgages for ex-cadets. Any such people care to comment about the financial challenges they faced on graduating and returning to the big bad world?

[bjkeates]

I'm probably missing something here (which is good since I'm well into the course now!) or just being naive, but I don't see how this is a problem. Say, for example, you start working for Easyjet; you're earning a decent living wage and the bond payments are being accounted for on top of that. The banks can see you're earning and you've got the means to pay off the bond as planned, so why wouldn't they talk to you? You've got a decent job, your big training debt is under control and you're a potential customer - I would have liked to think they'd be happy. Of course, if you lost your job you'd be up the proverbial creek without a paddle, but I've never heard of anyone that's gone through and then done that.

You say you asked HSBC these questions, you've been told that the implication will be nobody will want to give you a mortgage but "HSBC have arranged mortgages for ex-cadets". The cynic in me says "how convenient!" They would say that wouldn't they...

EDIT: I do see the point, though, that the arrangement with HSBC is unique in that nobody else gets a loan that size unsecured, which might scare off potential mortgage lenders who know nothing about it. HSBC do know about it and the associated risks, of course, and they're much happier to sort out mortgages knowing that debt exists on that basis. Hmmmmm. Looks like I'm going to be owned by HSBC for much longer than I thought, then!

[screaminlemmin]

I asked the hythe branch and they said they will give CTC students the opportunity of a 100% mortgage after the course

[PAJ]

Hi

I'm just going through my preparations for my phase 3 and am slightly uncertain as to what the fleet status at CTC is at the moment. Their website has articles saying they operate Seminoles and Dutchesses - is this still the case or is to now only a DA42 operation?

Also, single engine, the Alpha is on the way - how many have been delivered to date of the initial 12 ordered - there is a delay isn't there? Have any of the 14 options been exercised? How many DA42s are there actually - some places say 8, others ten some 7!! Whats the answer?! Are there anymore on order? Also, are the 172s/ Katanas all going to be entirely phased out this year?

Thanks very much in advance for any light you might be able to shed!

PAJ

[socloss]

PAJ,

Having passed my Phase 3 last week, you're better off spending your time learning about the partner airlines (all 8 of them) and trying to learn their fleet as well. They didnt actaully ask me anything about CTC themselves but everyone does have different Qs.

Make sure you learn about examples of teamwork, pressure situations etc.
Best of luck!

socloss

[PAJ]

Hi Socloss

Thanks for the reply - I just want to make sure I cover as many bases as possible. As for the airlines, I'm learning the basic stuff - ie type of airline, when founded, basic history, fleet and orders, key route network, CEO etc. Are they going to probe any deeper than this? I thought that as there are 8, if anything they would just brush over each of them. Also, how relevant are BA - they don't seem to be such an established partner as their name is on some publications but no on the website. I'll learn their basics to be safe though.

I think I have a decent range of examples for teamworking, leadership, decision making, communication etc. I have a fairly decent understanding of the industry and think I'm up to date on anything significant that's relevant. How much detail do they want you to know about CTC itself?

Appologies, so many questions! Don't want to cock it up because of lack of preparation! I see you're based in Newbury - is this the case? If so, that's actually where I'm living for then next three weeks (and have been since August) - small world. Perhaps I might be able to interest you in a pint so I could pick your brain a little - I'll buy! No pressure, I know having a stange bloke ask you for a drink on a pilots forum is not exactly the norm!! hehe

Thanks in advance

PAJ

[pcoltas]

At my stage 3 i was just asked about what aicraft the partner airlines typically operate, wasnt asked about ceo's, they asked me whether i would like to fly boeing or airbus then which boeing i said 75 or 76 and they said what kind of routes would you be flying to in that aircraft (ie. what destinations)

Wasnt asked anything else about ctc, i was asked about what i'd do if i was the FO and the captain was disobeying SOPs, what effect making an unscheduled landing due to a sick passenger would have, what navigation devices do modern aircraft use, main disadvantage of gps, probably some other stuff ive forgotten. It was fairly technical, but then again the questions are aimed at your level of experience (ie. what you put on ur application form)

As others have said its highly unlikely you'll get the same questions as ctc keep an eye on these forums and probably have hundreds of questions to ask.

I would say leadership/teamwork example questions are the main focus, i was asked for times ive been in a team i didnt want to be in and what i did, also if they were to bring in some of my mates what would they say i could change about mysef, and what do i think i could change about myself. I was also asked to explain my performace at a-level and at uni, if i was happy with it and if i thought i could have done/could do any better.

Hope this helps, im sure others can add with their experiences

[PAJ]

Thanks for the reply

You are right, they must have a massive bank of questions so I can't try to pre-empt them too much. While I'm thinking about this, basic CRM probably but not something I've really studied that much. If the captain wants to drink before a flight or intends to disobey SOPs, as a co-pilot, surely I should say that I am not prepared to let the flight go ahead as it cannot be operated safely backed by the fact that I have studied the same things he has, have the qualifications to fly and that it is my job to ensure the safe operation of the flight. That could be completely not what they're looking for - if so, somebody please please say!!

While I'm at it what is the main disadvantage of GPS by the way? Is it that GPS approaches have not yet been approved? I should probably know this given my background!!

Cheers
PAJ

[socloss]

PAJ,

Id be happy to meet for a beer sometime, PM me and we can sort it out.

socloss

[pcoltas]

The main disadvantge is that the US Military own the satellites m8, as for CRM thats exactly what they want, the fact that even though the Captain may be some old salt 20-30 years your senior who thinks he's seen it all, you're not afraid to speak up about it, and at the end of the day SOP's are there for a reason, whether you've been flying 20 years or 20 months.

All the best anyway for it anyway

[scopiton]

hi guys

how long do ctc contact you after your web site application .?

PAJ, as you're saying there are 8 partners allied to CTC , how can you be sure easy jet will hire you at the end of your training ?
Or do they take the best of the best to BA? the second to EZY, the 3rd to ABC air ?

or are you directly oriented to EZY if you registered on the CTC website through EZY site ?

[socloss]

Scopiton,

You seem very keen on EasyJet!
There is no guarantee that they nor any of the other partner airlines will hire you. However, CTC claim that nobody has finished the course without having an offer of employment from an airline, subject to 6 months line training. There is a holding pool for cadets to enter should they not be taken on but as of yet, nobody has entered it.

Im not sure how it works in terms of who takes who but if BA turn up wanting the best, thats what they will get. Some people prefer working for a low cost carrier to start off with, as pay increases quicker and you generally get more hours under your belt faster.

Best of luck to you.....:ok:

socloss

[pilotdude09]

Hey All,

Ive been looking at CTC Wings NZ, and they seem to be a pretty good crowd and the guys on the promo video seem to be pretty good to work/train with.

I was wondering if you guys can answer some Q's about it?

Do you pay for all your training? If so what would be a ballpark figure?

What are the chances of getting an instructor job with them afterwards, as downunder we cant get into an airline untill we have thousands of hours and even then you will be lucky.

Would they support you if say you wanted to move to the UK to take up a job with an airline over there?

What are all the instructors and management like? easy to get along with, stern but full of knowledge?

How easy/hard is CTC wings programme to get into?

How long does the course go for say 0 hours till your licence?

Would it be better to get my PPL first then apply?

Anyone know much about CTC NZ specifcally?

And one more....How old do you have to be to apply?


I have trawelled through both threads and tried to sive through all the non related crap and got some answers from that. Answers to the above would be really helpfull.

Thanks heaps,

Pilotdude :)

[pilotdude09]

Thanks airgus.

Another question, i have been trawling through FAQ's and these forums and i dont get whether kiwis are able to apply or not.

From what im reading if a Kiwi applys i have to be able to work in the EU?

If not Im living in Western Australia and im a NZ'er so am able to work in NZ etc so does this mean i can apply?

Ive spent all day trying to work out whether or not to apply, how many kiwis would they take on each course and how often do courses start in NZ?

Thanks again
a very :confused: pilotdude09 lol

[scopiton]

hey Socloss
yeah I'm keen of EZY as I applyied on their Web site as a cadet (ctc site) and let me thank you for your answers.

I'm wondering how it works and wanna know as much as possible.
I'm actually flying in Canada, have 88 hrs of flight, PPL, actually flying to have my cpl. is that a good profil to them ?

do you know how much time they need to answer phase 1 ?
Tx
bye

[akindofmagic]

CTC Wings NZ is a completely separate scheme to the CTC Wings Cadet and ATP schemes. As far as I know (and please do bear in mind that this is only what I've gleaned from being around the training centre) the scheme is set up in concert with a university in NZ, allowing you to get a student loan for the full amount of the training, up to and including a NZ CPL/IR.
Once this is obtained, those cadets who CTC want/ need will be asked if they want to stay with CTC as an instructor. If you choose to do so, CTC will, as I understand it, train you to category "C" instructor standard, and you will be issued the appropriate rating. You will then be employed as an instructor in the single engine team. There is not, as far as I am aware, any provision for graduates of the course to be placed with any airline. You are getting NZ, not JAA, licences and ratings.
I cannot comment with any authority on the jobs market in NZ; as it does not affect me I have not done the necessary research. However, from speaking to my primary and secondary instructor, and others, the general consensus is that to be considered for a job with a small turboprop operator (i.e. Eagle or Air Nelson) you need to have a considerable amount of twin time. I will not give a total required as I honestly don't know what it might be, but it is certainly in the hundreds. Most instructors seem to be expecting to work as an instructor for several years at least before moving to an airline job.
I hope this information is of some use.
akindofmagic
(pilotdude09- I have assumed for the purposes of this post that you are not eligible to live and work in the EU. If I've misunderstood, then there is plenty of information in this and the previous Wings Cadet thread on the UK Cadet scheme, and if you are eligible to live and work in the EU, please do read those threads.)

[pilotdude09]

Thanks a kind of magic that cleared alot up. Wasnt sure if say you done the NZ stuff if an airline like Easy jet would sponsor you in the UK, me being hopefull :)

So basically the ctc wings programme is great for a i guess you could say head start and it helps majorly that you are able to get a student loan.

My Great Grandfather was a UK citizen and my father is entitled to a UK passport however as his son apparntely im not, so going to ring the uk emb in canberra and find out.. Or maybe there will be another way to move to the UK?

Otherwise CTC is still a good idea and ill apply when i turn 18. Then do instructing for a few years then go onto Air Nelson, REX or similar......

Thanks for your help guys, if theres anymore info post or pm me :)

[tucdelu]

Hi everybody,

I'm a french young boy (20 years old).

I had my Private Pilot Licence last week and I had plan to go to Canada to get my CPL/IR.

Someone told me that compagnies like Easyjet was recruting Cadets and Professionals in UK. Why not ? This personn said that Easyjet paid for our formation if we were a great cadet (good marks to exams) otherwise we have to pay for it. And then we are sure to work for easyjet.

Is easyjet the only compagnie to propose this service ? Is cadets only for english citizen ?

I read few topics on pprune about ctc wings and the 4 steps. Is CTC wings the only way for cadets ? Is ctc a compagnie or the system root for joining an english compagnie ?

I have a lot of question but to start, it is quite enough :)

Sorry for my certain mistakes, but I hope you will forget them :p

Many thanks.
Tucdelu

[speedrestriction]

Low hour cadet joining Easyjet are bonded for their type rating, either through CTC or GECAT.

No, other companies offer bonded schemes, but for many you must pay money up front.

As an EU citizen you are free to apply to any schemes provided you meet their requirements (minimum hours, experience etc.)

CTC are a flight training company conducting commercial training and type ratings.

CTC is merely one of very many companies to offer training.

sr

[tucdelu]

thanks for those informations.
Could you please give me the procedure to join CTC cadets ?
Is there a period for that ? Are there many french here who made ctc ?
I had plan to go to Cargair, a french canadian compagnie which teach us to CPL/IR. Is it better to have Canadien CPL and go back to UK to convert it for Europe flight ?
Would you mind to list me the different UK compagnies like easyjet who/se (can't remember sorry^^ ) pay the course if it works perfectly ?

Many thanks

Tuc

[speedrestriction]

To apply to CTC you must go through several stages of selection. You will find more details on CTC's website.

If you ask five different pilots the best way to get a licence you will get six different answers. Many people opt to carry out training abroad and then convert their licences to JAR licences. The most important thing is that at the end of your training you have a JAR licence which will allow you to work as a pilot in Europe, whatever route you choose.

There are very few companies (if any) who will actually pay for your commercial training. Most sponsored schemes will require you to pay for your training but will have the offer of a job at the end provided you meet a certain standard.

[tucdelu]

Thank you for your answer.
I planned to go to cargair and you were right when you said that there are so many different ways to be a pilot ^^

You said: "There are very few companies (if any) who will actually pay for your commercial training"

Could you please list me those compagnies ? I just know Easyjet.
I would like to try to join those compagnies before going to Cargair.
So if you could list them, i'll try to find how to proceed then.
Thank you very much
Tuc

[5CV]

Hey gang,
I have been put forward to phase 3 on April 18th and was wondering if anyone could give me any ideas to the sort of questions asked during the interview. Also any infomation about the team excercises.

[PAJ]

CTC have so so many questions they can possibly ask - you're in there for about an hour so its not stupidly long, but definitely enough time to see whether you have done your research. Rather than list questions, I'll suggest a few things you might want to know about - anyone else feel free to add:

Know the partner airlines (Base, core UK hubs, Fleet, any merger info, perhaps passenger numbers last year)

Know the role of a first officer inside out! Show them you know you don't expect to be hands on flying the whole time - what other roles will you perform?

Know the key industry goings-on - emmsions, open skies, pilot fatigue, new aircaft in development, security are a few to read up on

I was asked about pilot hours - how many a week/ month can I expect to fly

Some guys have been asked about a specific aircraft - say the 757-200. How many seats? What might be a typical route?

Maybe know a few technnical bits - why are we seeing winglets on new aircraft more and more? What are wing fences designed for?

Most importantly though, know yourself inside out. Have examples (more thasn one I would suggest) for each of the core qualities, and perhaps try to find a way of linking them in the interview if you find that might help you.

I could go on all night but I think its only fair you do some of the work yourself!

One other hint I will offer - I would advise that you prepare a little intoduction speech as thats how the day begins. Only 3 mins or so but I got the distinct impression that they prefer a bit of detail rather than a quick hello. Cover flying experience, education, employment briefly if relevant. Just a summary but try to be as confident as possible - its one of the hardest bits of the day so prepare!

[bjkeates]

You can find details of Cadet vs Direct Entry salaries on Easyjet's website.

[PAJ]

Hi Guys,
I am absolutely ecstatic to be able to be one of the fortunate few who is able to post saying I’m off to NZ - CP49 here I come! I don’t really want to cover loads of old ground here if possible, or bore you senseless at that! I am just very grateful to all those who have taken the time to post on here with tips/ experiences – they have been a real help to me and numerous others I am sure.

I cannot believe how fast all this has happened! I sent my application on 12th March, receiving an invite to stage 2 the next day. As I was away in the States for a bit, I went for stage 2 on 30th March, being notified I was successful the same night. With Easter looming, I expected a delay but was very pleased to be invited to stage 3 on 10th April. They called me the next morning inviting me to stage 4 for the next day, giving me some useful feedback while they were at it. Stage 4 was done yesterday and I received a call 45 mins later saying I was successful, and asked whether I could fly out on 2nd May, so here I am! Talk about efficient! It has taken 13 days from phase 2 until knowing my course – it really hasn’t sunk in. Just handed in my notice at work; surreal experience that was! Anyway, point I am trying to make is that CTC are so professional and efficient. Really nice at every stage and anyone who has been to both Bournemouth and Nursling knows how fantastic their facilities are. I would like to strongly urge anyone thinking of applying to do so!

So selection advice … PILAPT is actually quite fun! Very tough in places but it is very much a case of you have it or you don’t! Cockpitweb is all well and good, but I did nothing like that, just practiced my maths and drew on my flying experience and was fine. A couple of things, the shape recognition test is best to be broken down. You need to identify whether a coloured shape matches criteria on two axies, one for colour, the other for shape. Just focus on one thing first (I chose colour as it seemed simpler) and ensure the right colour was under the right column (do this every time as the axies change and being lazy does not hack it at this level) – if so, scan across to the other axis. It’s like an instrument scan when flying IFR. Really noticed that come back to me in the 737 sim yesterday. Also, the final test, just stay cool – again, break it down. Either focus on number or shape initially – if you can manage all of it, that’s ideal but try to keep in touch with the sequencing as once you lose it, that’s it, then keep up with the shapes as you can. The rest has been covered elsewhere and is worth a read!

Stage 3 – Learn the airlines! I would suggest knowing a brief history, fleet, base, core uk hubs and any mergers happening at least. Know the role of a first officer, relationship on the flightdeck with the captain, basic CRM issues, perhaps a few technical bits like where might a 757-200 fly – don’t say the far east; that’s just silly! Know industry events – especially environmental issues, open skies agreement, new aircraft under development, pilot fatigue, maybe ATC restructuring at the moment. All in Flight International but well worth throwing around in the interview if you get the chance. Most importantly know yourself inside out, backwards – everything. Get together loads of examples – can’t go wrong that way.

Team exercises – just be yourself and contribute. This may really backfire saying this, but it was implied that the first exercise (survival) is a chance for you to show leadership and the second (building) is for teamworking – obviously if everyone does this though, that does not make for a good overall team, so it really does need to be an emphasis on the team working well rather than you looking like the best teamplayer. Just contribute!

Stage 4 – AWESOME!!!! Anyone who is like me and has always wanted to fly a 737-300, well this is your chance! It was fantastic; the guy who looked after us both was great, really patient and a great instructor. He took off from Gatwick 26L, took us up to 5,000, asked me to decent do 4,000 at 250kt (he controlled the power throughout – trust me, its tough enough without the throttle! Then it was 180 degree turns with 30 deg bank to the left and right, error margin was very tight I think, 100ft either way needed very swift correction, then 360 degree turns. Changes in power settings while holding attitude, then 45 deg bank turns. He then set the aircraft up for an ILS on to 26L, with cloud base at 800ft. So satisfying to hit the centreline! Then he asked me to takeoff, climb to 3,000ft ensuring I maintained 210kt. A few things I’ll point out – firstly, as I’m sure you can imagine, a c152 it aint! This thing is really heavy in the bank, ¼ degree in pitch makes a huge difference in R.O.C – about 200fpm! So try to pre-empt how the pitch needs to be adjusted as the speeds change. Also, remember positive exchange of control, ie, ‘I have control’, when asked to turn 180 deg holding altitude, say something like, ‘right 180 at 30 deg bank maintaing 4,000’, then perhaps say ’90 to go’ half ay through the turn. Ensures you have been listening and is how pilots operate in a multi-crew environment. No maths questions for me, just general discussions about the aircraft handling during turns to see how you cope.

Anyway, hope that helps a bit – I’d be happy to answer a few questions if you guys have them. Everyone who I have met along the way have been fantastic guys and I wish all of you the very best. And as for those of you on CP49, bring it on!

PAJ

[solaris]

Hi all, my names Steve and I've got my phase 2 on the 25th May. Any advice on things to do to prepare for it?

[tucdelu]

Thanks Paj for telling your experience. I just wanna know how to inscribe myself to CTC Cadets.
How do I have to proceed ?
Do you think it is hard for a french guy ?
Tuc

[MajorYaw]

tucdelu,

Others may know better than I but as long as you have an unrestricted right to work in the UK, are sufficiently fluent in English and, as far as I know, prepared to be based in the UK (guess you need to check airline base options with CTC) you shouldn't have a problem applying.

No doubt this is covered on CTC's website, or failing that give them a call.

From my experience of stage 2, a non-native English speaker appeared to me to be failing the final set of tests of PILAPT possibly because he didn't fully understand what he had to do. It's speculation on my part but I saw that he was only reacting to one of the three aspects of the final PILAPT test. I didn't get a chance to speak to him afterwards though, so don't take it as gospel. He could have just been swamped come the end.

Judging by the volume of information/communication throughout selection and the course itself, I guess a high level of fluency in English is just as critical as the other aptitudes.

[casino335]

Hi,

Are there any people here past 30 yrs of age who have applied to the CTC Wings Cadet scheme and have been invited to stage 2?:bored:

Also, are CTC now allowing candidates to resit stage 2 - think i remember a few months back people saying there was only one attempt allowed at stage 2?

Thanks

[5CV]

Hi
Your info is great but you've just terrified my about Phase 3 to which I'm going on Tuesday!
The stuff you refer to as best to be aware of; is there a quick learning guide or could you send me something...I'm really concerned now!!
Cheers mate and hope you enjoy the course.....well done......I'm green and I don't mean environmentally!:{

[tucdelu]

Thank you for your answer.
I have more troubles to speak than to understand but we never knows ^^.
I found on ctc website the inscription and filled it.
I had an error message: It says that I haven't completely fill the subscritions fields.... :s
I can't understand.
I gave all the required informations and when i have not, i added the number 0 or wrote "none" and I still have the error message.

If I perfectly know the different stepps: stage2,3,4, it would be easyer the D Day to do what we have to do.

I'm just a bit afraid for the interviews to not be able to reply to the questions. I won't have enough vocabulary to describe my thoughts, my feelings, ...

I have still many days to improve my english :)

[ziyad13]

Hi

Can anyone tell me from experience how long the average time is from stage 4 to leaving is?

Ziyad

[PAJ]

19days from my stage 4 until I leave for NZ but I don't think that's normal!!

[akindofmagic]

I passed selection at the start of June and moved out at the start of August. I think it might all happen quicker now though.

[SA242]

I was on my way to NZ in under 2 weeks from finishing stg 4 so it varies hugely.

[nickbanksy]

hi

i had my application to ctc put on hold just before i was to attend my phase 2 as i was starting to have doubts about it all. does anybody know how long after training with ctc is completed, you would be paying off the debt that has built up through the duration of training, ie. the bond (which i know is 7 years) and the living costs etc all taken through hsbc?? this was my only major concern with the whole thing really.

thanks

[solaris]

Yeah, im scared about living costs if I get it.

[greywind]

Hi

I am looking towards my Stage 3 with CTC and will be going on holiday soon before I take it and was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of any specific books or other reading it would be worth burying my head in whilst I sit by the pool?

Obviously there is a wealth of information online here and also the information on the partner airlines to read but aside from taking a wedge of printouts with me just wondering if anyone can help.


Sorry if this has been posted before, but in response to people looking towards stage 2 I found some software on the internet that will allow you to practice similar tests to that on pilapt. Bear in mind they arent 100% the same!! You do have to pay for this as well but its cheaper than having to make two trips down to CTC because you failed the first time like I did.
A quick search in google should find some for you.