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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 9th Mar 2022, 13:11
  #2841 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TEEEJ

tweet on towing fulcrums X-border
Just leave 'em by the border, have a leak and some Ukrainian farmer has towed it away. These things happen you know, it ain't NATO's fault if the guards hear the natures call every once in a while and some Ukrainian farmer is in need of a crop duster.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 13:16
  #2842 (permalink)  
 
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Sell them to Ukraine one cent each, have them painted in the Ukraine markings then have Ukrainians fly their aircraft home. That way the NATO, The EU, Poland or the US are not delivering fighters as they are owned and operated by the Ukraine.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 13:17
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 13:18
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Is that big convoy still there? I'm a freezer, so it occurs to me that a week in a tin box ain't going to be balmy! Hope it snows...

CG
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 13:26
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Originally Posted by charliegolf
Is that big convoy still there? I'm a freezer, so it occurs to me that a week in a tin box ain't going to be balmy! Hope it snows...

CG
Weather seems to be a bit chilly.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/ua/iv...weather/324329
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 13:38
  #2846 (permalink)  
 
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That can be bad news as the ground will freeze so they can spread out.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 13:39
  #2847 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Sell them to Ukraine one cent each, have them painted in the Ukraine markings then have Ukrainians fly their aircraft home. That way the NATO, The EU, Poland or the US are not delivering fighters as they are owned and operated by the Ukraine.
I don't think Putin will be using the standards of proof/legality demanded in a court of law, Nutty.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 14:07
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
That can be bad news as the ground will freeze so they can spread out.
If the ground is soft as reported earlier, that weather is not going to make it frozen enough to carry any vehicles. It would require something like 70cm of solid frost to carry the equipment throught the mud and marshes and it takes a long continuous period of good freezing weather to achieve that.
Regarding the circumstances: It's +1C at day and -6 at night. It is just about as disgusting as it can be with gear getting wet during days and freezing during nights, but the ground is not freezing enough to get out of there. If theres no heat to dry you up it'll be quite miserable. If no food, even worse.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 14:51
  #2849 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
Given that Russian aircraft are being brought down frequently with manpads and very little damage is reported as a result of bombing, but rather artillery and rockets, I think this must be ignored. I have now moved completely to the view that Selensky is cynically trying his best to drag any NATO country into this war, so that it broadens the conflict and relieves pressure on Ukraine.

This must not happen. His words and pictures of suffering children must be ignored ( in this case ). There is a very real risk of this moving to some kind of nuclear level if NATO becomes involved, and for that Selensky becomes a total **** in my eyes in trying to engineer this. The help he is getting with ATGW and manpads is the most effective at the moment and, by all accounts, very large numbers are getting through;
You are such a wonderful empathetic person aren't you? Yes, let's ignore the suffering of children and the wider populace of a country on our doorstep.

It's Zelenskyy by the way, not Selensky. If you're going to accuse someone of cynically trying anything then at least have the common courtesy to use his actual name.

"Being a ****'? It's alright for you to say such things, sat no doubt in you Savoie retirement home, boring all comers with "Cold War Warrior" stories of getting drunk in Hamburg. His people are dying at the hands of a ruthless Dictator who has been emboldened over the years by Western appeasement.

Perhaps you need reminding that two of the biggest members of NATO (US and UK) signed an agreement, along with Russia, to respect Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and borders, as well as not use threats of force and economic pressure against Ukraine. The price? Ukraine's large nuclear stockpile.

Do you think Russia would have taken the actions it has, both in 2014 and now, if Ukraine hadn't given up its most effective defensive weapons for a promise from the US, UK and Russia?

It's time for the US and UK to stand by their commitment to Ukraine.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 15:04
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Originally Posted by Video Mixdown
On March 9, 2022, Defense Secretary Ben Wallace said that the United Kingdom was looking into delivering Starstreak missiles to Ukraine, to prevent Russian air supremacy amid the Russo-Ukrainian War.
Not sure about the wisdom of handing-out Starstreak. It requires more training than Stinger RMP and (unlike modern Stinger) wasn't built with counter-proliferation in mind. Heck of a big stick to whack with though.

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Old 9th Mar 2022, 15:08
  #2851 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Helpful Stacker
You are such a wonderful empathetic person aren't you? Yes, let's ignore the suffering of children and the wider populace of a country on our doorstep.

It's Zelenskyy by the way, not Selensky. If you're going to accuse someone of cynically trying anything then at least have the common courtesy to use his actual name.

"Being a ****'? It's alright for you to say such things, sat no doubt in you Savoie retirement home, boring all comers with "Cold War Warrior" stories of getting drunk in Hamburg. His people are dying at the hands of a ruthless Dictator who has been emboldened over the years by Western appeasement.

Perhaps you need reminding that two of the biggest members of NATO (US and UK) signed an agreement, along with Russia, to respect Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and borders, as well as not use threats of force and economic pressure against Ukraine. The price? Ukraine's large nuclear stockpile.

Do you think Russia would have taken the actions it has, both in 2014 and now, if Ukraine hadn't given up its most effective defensive weapons for a promise from the US, UK and Russia?

It's time for the US and UK to stand by their commitment to Ukraine.
I think we understand your anger but TF is, imho, brutally correct. Unless we are prepared to have a major European war with Russia (with all the risks that may bring) then the total loss of life is almost certainly going to be far lower (and just as successful) by continuing as we are. Not nice if you feel you are being hung out to dry, I know, but realistically, what other option do you suggest?
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 15:11
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Maybe a stupid question, but I have rarely seen it asked elsewhere.
Why is Ukraine not retaliating by shelling Russian targets outwith their own borders !

El Grifo
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 15:13
  #2853 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Helpful Stacker
You are such a wonderful empathetic person aren't you? Yes, let's ignore the suffering of children and the wider populace of a country on our doorstep.
e.


Realistic I think. As i said above, the NFZ doesn't help Ukraine. Slag me off if you wish, but explain to me why I am wrong in my belief that Zelensky wants to spread the war as widely as possible . Explain how the NFZ helps Ukraine when all the damage is being done by artillery and rockets. IMO he sees (probably correctly ) that spreading the war is the only chance of getting the Russians out of Ukraine. If Ukraine manages to fight them to a stand-still there is no way they will relinquish the strategic territory they have won in any "peace-accord". By the way re-read my words, I wrote: "His words and pictures of suffering children must be ignored ( in this case ) " i.e. in this manipulative advert;

" boring all comers with "Cold War Warrior" stories of getting drunk in Hamburg "
Thinking of yourself perhaps ? It's certainly not me, never having been a CWW. and not having been in Hamburg since I was 18.

"Perhaps you need reminding that two of the biggest members of NATO (US and UK) signed an agreement, along with Russia, to respect Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and borders, as well as not use threats of force and economic pressure against Ukraine. The price? Ukraine's large nuclear stockpil"
Perhaps you need reminding that Zelensky signed the renegotiated Steinmeier Formula in 2019 agreeing to recognise the independent status of Donbas which he has reneged on because he subsequently discovered he didn't have the support of his people.( see link )

https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-in...utonomy-donbas

I can't change anything that has happened and I have been deeply affected to tears to read and see the terrible events occurring, but believe that if Zelensky got what he is demanding, then many times more people would die than at present and I don't see that as intelligent. Could I be wrong about Putin's likely reaction to a NFZ ? Of course I could, in the same way that Angela Merkel - long praised as the most intelligent and influential European politician/leader - was wrong when she took the decisions to make Germany overwhelmingly dependent on Russian energy.

Last edited by Tartiflette Fan; 9th Mar 2022 at 15:44.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 15:17
  #2854 (permalink)  
 
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What a bunch of muppets

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Old 9th Mar 2022, 15:57
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Originally Posted by El Grifo
Maybe a stupid question, but I have rarely seen it asked elsewhere.
Why is Ukraine not retaliating by shelling Russian targets outwith their own borders !

El Grifo
Shortage of shells ? Trying to deny Putin any propaganda wins with press reports " Nazi Ukranians kill 100 women and children in cowardly attack on peaceful xxx " ? Nothing strategically important within range ?

Having said that, they did attack Millerovo air-base with rockets on Feb 25th

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millerovo_(air_base)
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 16:00
  #2856 (permalink)  
 
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They have been. look on twitter for Ukrainian artillery
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 16:03
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Originally Posted by Beamr
Just leave 'em by the border, have a leak and some Ukrainian farmer has towed it away. These things happen you know, it ain't NATO's fault if the guards hear the natures call every once in a while and some Ukrainian farmer is in need of a crop duster.
I agree. Those Ukrainain farmers have been busy!

Interesting imagery with the An-2 Colts. Are the Russians going to use them to degrade and draw out Ukrainian air defences? Azerbaijan were using AN-2s as UAVs during the conflict with Armenia.

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Old 9th Mar 2022, 16:08
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Having said that, they did attack Millerovo air-base with rockets on Feb 25th
No official confirmation but likely !
Finding nothing under Ukrainian Artillery, but would welcome further info Nutloose !

El Grifo
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 16:22
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I have a (vain) hope that Mad Vlad hasn't decimated downtown Kyiv yet with the (diminishing) tools that are remaining at his disposal, perhaps because he would find it hard to sell to the ordinary folk back home that he has razed the place that he considers the birthplace of Mother Russia?
Granted, the reports of 'the' armoured column getting picked off piecemeal has no doubt helped, and the magnificent defence being put up by the Ukrainians. Of course he could, and no doubt would, manipulate any photos/footage if that proves to be the case, but I hope that my theory is correct? The coming days will of course tell one way or the other.
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Old 9th Mar 2022, 16:23
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Interesting schematic giving this think-tank's appreciation of risk/value of different military possibilities inc NFZ

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/cont...r-has-answers/
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