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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

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Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Old 8th Mar 2022, 19:24
  #2781 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SLXOwft
The Jerusalem Post seems to think Zelenskyy may be close to caving into Putin's demands. Also that Russian Forces are deliberately holding back from fullscale assault.


Putin ordered his forces to halt – and the command for a ceasefire to be enacted was given – in order to wait for Zelensky's decision, the sources said."'
https://www.jpost.com/international/article-700677

To be honest I have thought the increasingly strident calls for intervention by NATO indicated a last ditch attempt to stave off what is the inevitable choice of capitulation without external military asssitance.
Have you actually read any of this thread?
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 19:27
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Originally Posted by SLXOwft

. Although I hate to agree with la Truss, NATO should have intervened before a shot was fired - the consequences of Putin fired up by achieving his aims, and portraying to countries outside the western liberal democratic clique how he faced them down, may lead to an outcome the reverse of what we expect.

I won’t mention that I have been saying that from the very start, when Russia was discussing a peace keeping farce we should have put an opposing force into the Ukrainian held areas as a peace keeping force to prevent any expansion, and that idea got squashed in here,…….. oops I just mentioned it.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 19:34
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That way the USA can hand them over and Poland gets what, F16’s from US stocks?
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 19:40
  #2784 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Beamr
Bulgaria has 13 in service.
oh, and Slovakia has 11.
For both those countries 'has' and 'in service' don't belong inside one sentence.
But perhaps it is a nice way of getting rid of them.

The upgrades and retrofits made over the last 25 years to align the jets with NATO-designed HW, comms and armaments are extensive. Interoperability within UKR AF is doubtful.
After the hand-over, the removal of classified electronics, conversion mods/maintenance, delivery timeframe and deployment potential becomes US responsibility. Well played by the Poles.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 20:39
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It appears the Russians may be scraping the bottom of the barrel for replacement tanks

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A T-72B with no ERA, no smoke dischargers, no searchlight, missing a mud guard and a broken IR light. Probably picked up from the boneyard and returned into service. #Russia#RussianUkrainianWar#Ukraine#UkraineRussianWar#Tank
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 20:41
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Their resilience astounds me and is a testament to the Country, utter, utter respect.

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Ukrainian military band plays 'Don't worry be happy' in anticipation of Russian offensive in Odessa. #Ukraine#Odessa#UkraineRussianWar#Kyiv#StandWithUkraine️
Farmers are at it again,


Last edited by NutLoose; 8th Mar 2022 at 20:54.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 20:51
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Natalia Antonova 🇺🇸🇺🇦@NataliaAntonova · 50mLooking at request for supplies to refugees, noticed a line about pregnancy tests.

“Yes, we have multiple women raped by Russian soldiers here — so we’re stocking up.”

We will never forgive. Never, never, never.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 20:52
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Agreed. And if Putin turns off the gas to europe....what would be the outcome. I shudder to think where this all leads.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 21:07
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Originally Posted by Right20deg
Agreed. And if Putin turns off the gas to europe....what would be the outcome. I shudder to think where this all leads.

Well we in the U.K. do not use much as most of ours comes from Norway, I don’t know if Africa or Norway could up output?

The pipeline map is extensive, plus there is LPG which can be brought in by ship.


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Old 8th Mar 2022, 21:13
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LVIV — Ukrainian state arms manufacturer Ukroboronprom said on Tuesday it would pay $1 million to anyone who captured a combat-ready Russian military aircraft – an offer it said was open to Russian pilots wanting to switch sides.

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pm...military-plane
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 21:19
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
It appears the Russians may be scraping the bottom of the barrel for replacement tanks
I would like to know how they are short of tanks. Estimates state in excess of 13000 in their armoury, no where near that many in theatre or destroyed. Perhaps their capabilities and resources have been vastly overestimated? Or maybe, just maybe they have a lot of kit in a state of disrepair and have been bluffing?

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Old 8th Mar 2022, 21:31
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Originally Posted by macmp419
I would like to know how they are short of tanks. Estimates state in excess of 13000 in their armoury, no where near that many in theatre or destroyed. Perhaps their capabilities and resources have been vastly overestimated? Or maybe, just maybe they have a lot of kit in a state of disrepair and have been bluffing?
the bias is on the old T72, about 8000 of them.
the T80's they have 4500.
T90's, only 600 or so.
In essence, the newest gear is from the 90's and only a few hundred of those. The rest is really old. So old that those were reserved for the Fulda gap when somewhat newish.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 21:39
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Originally Posted by NutLoose

BTW they have started to add invasion stripes for identification, must be bad when both sides use the same helicopters

https://theaviationist.com/2022/03/0...ussians-helos/
Nutty, I think you’ll find those are “Special Military Operation” stripes. No invasion here, nothing to see, move along.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 21:47
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By using up their older tanks, bar the fuel issues, I can understand the reliability issues, mind you it wouldn’t surprise me if the newer ones were poor quality too.
It’s almost as if the believed this will be a walk over, let’s use or older kit, that way if we burn through it, it does not matter, we will win on the cheap,

I am so glad they underestimated the opposition, it reminds me of the Israelis on the Golan heights, out gunned and out numbered they realised the command tanks had extra aerials to receive and transmit so killed those first, the rest was easier.

Last edited by NutLoose; 8th Mar 2022 at 22:14.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 21:48
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Originally Posted by macmp419
Estimates state in excess of 13000 in their armoury, no where near that many in theatre or destroyed. ?
Do you think he can afford to/is able to transport ALL tanks to the Ukraine ? Since logistics have been shown to be a huge weak point, how long would this take , even if it were strategically desirable ?

Last edited by T28B; 8th Mar 2022 at 23:57. Reason: fix quotes
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 21:49
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by Beamr
the bias is on the old T72, about 8000 of them.
the T80's they have 4500.
T90's, only 600 or so.
In essence, the newest gear is from the 90's and only a few hundred of those. The rest is really old. So old that those were reserved for the Fulda gap when somewhat newish.
Thank you Beamr - very informative
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 21:52
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
they realised the command tanks had extra aerials to receive and transmit so killed those first, the rest was easier.
"Realised " ?
Isn't this a standard military doctrine - " go for the vehicles with the most aerials " .since these will be the commanders. Rather like snipers being told to shoot the people being saluted - standard military give-aways.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 22:06
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
Their resilience astounds me and is a testament to the Country, utter, utter respect.



Farmers are at it again,

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Old 8th Mar 2022, 22:11
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Originally Posted by macmp419
Thank you Beamr - very informative
no problem.

I'd like to add that most probably majority is not in working order. In SU it was a standard procedure to cover up deficiencies by stating them from a positive angle. So standard that it had its own word: pokazuha.
It was so built in into the soviet system all the way from the beginning that I really doubt it never left. I'd bet Putin in his part is somewhat fooled by pokazuha regarding his armies. Who wants to break the bad news to Stalin? No one, so why risk your dear life. Yes supreme leader we have 13000 tanks and yes we can move those to the special military area, haraso. Just no one tells him that they will be towed to railway carts and left to the railway station since they aren't working. But the tanks were delivered to the target area, all is good, life saved.
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Old 8th Mar 2022, 22:30
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Originally Posted by Tartiflette Fan
"Realised " ?
Isn't this a standard military doctrine - " go for the vehicles with the most aerials " .since these will be the commanders. Rather like snipers being told to shoot the people being saluted - standard military give-aways.
My apologies, I am neither up to date on doctrine, nor an expert on armour, I am just trying my best, I will get something’s wrong, everyone is fallible, but I am trying as it is an interest of mine.

I sometimes feel if I do not post some links then the thread to the Worlds greatest disaster will die, and people need to know what’s happening or is being posted, because to stand idly by and ignore the issues, we are as culpable as the Russian public.

The world needs to wake up and react, yes I realise the possible outcome, but not too, we are as guilty as those that knew of the gas chambers but did nothing to prevent it. I for one fervently believe if we do not call his nuclear bluff and I believe it is, then Putin will use it over and over again as he now know’s the world will back down while millions are massacred, sorry if no one agrees but that’s how I read it, the only reason Putin used the threat is a delaying tactic while he massacres a country. ..
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