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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 26th Jul 2017, 10:12
  #3901 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 853
Small point but it wasn't 80k in 2008. It was just over 65k, adjusted for inflation though probably similar (but you'd have to adjust your figures too). I'm not saying it makes me any better or worse but someone was clearly implying hypocrisy and generalizing Oxford students (whether it was directed at me or not) and I was just defending myself and others who went to Oxford and didn't pay for ratings at the end of it. That's all.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 10:21
  #3902 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 891
I hear you - but again the point they might have been making was you paid double for a the same blue cased licence as those that went modular and didn't have the same opportunities.

Did you ever see, or has there ever been a modular cadet that went straight to BA or Easy for that matter?

The figures I quoted for myself it what I paid in 2008 so to compare:

I paid 55k for a licence and type rating.
You paid 'just over' 65k for a licence and type rating..

What's a tiny bit frustrating for me now, is to pass the BA selection, and 9 years after completing my licences, there is still Integrated newbies who haven't even passed their training yet, that will join BA, be higher on the seniority list and sitting in both the RHS and eventually LHS in the company before people like myself will.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 10:39
  #3903 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 853
Originally Posted by EMB-145LR View Post
BA is not offering your jobs to cadets! Any whitetails that are selected won't be joining the company until 2019 at the earliest. They won't have even begun their basic practical flight training when they are selected, only their ATPL exams will be complete.
EMB-145LR It is my firm belief that they are identifying these whitetail cadets who are at the end of their ground school right NOW. Otherwise it's a remarkable case of timing and coincidence that - right at the same time that they sent out the email to the holdpoolers with the bad news - they were surveying their pilots to confirm whether or not they would meet the newly formed entry requirements for consideration for the white tail scheme. I smell a rat.

The second thing is, as I said earlier in the thread, I cannot see how they are going to cover the requirement for pilots in 2018 with 65 FPP cadets. There must be a lot more movement in the pipeline than that.

(VJW I hear you and I'm firmly in your corner by the way)
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 11:16
  #3904 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 188
Originally Posted by BASHLH View Post
Ha yeh... there's even one of them on Yammer asking what pay scale he will go to next year when he gets his Command....
What's wrong with that? The early FPP's will be unfrozen this year and will have the hours required. Is it any different to 5 year commands at another company?

I feel for those in the DEP hold pool, but cadet-bashing helps nobody, and must be particularly galling to those that gave up other careers for the FPP and are now sat in jobless limbo as well, wondering if BA will ever give them a start date!
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 11:26
  #3905 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 891
I for one dont feel sorry for them- oh how I wish I had that problem at the end of my training.

I KNEW BA was not going to call!
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 11:32
  #3906 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Under the table
Posts: 188
Well, you pays your money and you takes your choice don't you? You could have waited another 5 years for the FPP to come along. I did, but that was only as there was no other option for me.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 11:47
  #3907 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 891
Yup- same can be said for the FPP guys you feel so desperately sorry for now..
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 15:57
  #3908 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,784
Are we really saying (at the moment) only 65 pilots to join the company in 2018 though?
I agree with your scepticism on that number Rex. Even if the v senior manager I mentioned earlier had been kept in the dark about a change of policy of new joiners he would have had an handle on the number of b**s needed on seats...and he was quoting the need for far more than 65.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 17:25
  #3909 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 119
Personally I can't believe the number will be anywhere near that low. If anything I would have said they would want to slightly over crew next year because the JSS implementation is BOUND to throw up issues, BA having such an amazing record at implementing new IT projects.

Not only that but the general morale level at BA is the worst I've seen it since I joined which is likely to result in further requests for early retirement / part time.

This looks like more short termism from our management team.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 18:48
  #3910 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 242
I think the inference is that recruitment next year will be FPP first, then "white tail", then any crumbs from that table will be passed to DEP, probably type rated first.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 19:15
  #3911 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Jumbo2 View Post
I'm sorry but you lost me here; Why would the current seniority system be unfair for DEP?
Are you serious. As an early thirties potential joiner with 8000 hours and ten years experience and now a LHS at a Loco can you believe I would be less than enamoured to find myself behind a zero hours cadet for a future command should I eventually be deemed worthy. For me, the system works against experienced pilots but then again I suppose it is meant to.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 19:16
  #3912 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 128
Originally Posted by Threethirty View Post
Not the case at all, you can get a 320 command in next to no time now.
Ho Ho Ho.... and Father Christmas really exists.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 19:30
  #3913 (permalink)  
nrn
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Monkey island
Age: 32
Posts: 67
Originally Posted by FlipFlapFlop View Post
Are you serious. As an early thirties potential joiner with 8000 hours and ten years experience and now a LHS at a Loco can you believe I would be less than enamoured to find myself behind a zero hours cadet for a future command should I eventually be deemed worthy. For me, the system works against experienced pilots but then again I suppose it is meant to.
Why do you think you are so special? Just because you've got a command you think you are "worth" more than a cadet? You will be doing the same job as that cadet, nothing more, nothing less. BA is a seniority driven airline, don't like it--> don't apply.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 19:46
  #3914 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 128
Do not recall saying I was special, just a lot more experienced. Why not put cadets in both seats then. Your comment is unnecessarily aggressive. Yes BA is seniority driven but I did apply. There are many other attractions to BA over where I am. But I have decided to stay and I just said why so I do not need your nasty views when you have no idea what drives me. And I think the salary difference between a captain and a cadet sort of implies others think so to.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 19:51
  #3915 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 238
So experience has no value? Nice to know.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 19:53
  #3916 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 891
Don't worry mate, his aggressiveness comes from someone who was probably a FPP cadet and actually thinks he's special.

As a capt - I know I'd rather have someone with 8000 hours next to me compared to a 200 hour cadet. Simple put, yes an 8000 hour pilot is worth much more than a 200 hour cadet. The latter often increase my workload rather than alleviate it.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 20:02
  #3917 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 128
Maybe. I expect it is his worthless experience that got him a P2 seat on 787.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 20:16
  #3918 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,784
Hopefully the reality of how the seniority system works at BA cannot be a surprise to any one sitting in the hold pool who performed due diligence.

I know it's been said before but here it is again: like it or not pretty much everything in BA is governed by date of joining....you must assume the pilot who joined a day/week/month ahead of you will get first shot at a command course unless there's a very rare combination of circumstance. In the 90s and later the likes of the Prestwick Cadets got commands ahead of DEPs who had joined from the forces/other airlines, and unless the rules change you can expect the FPPs and the possible "white tales" to get a shot at command ahead of any high hours LHSeaters joining from FR, Emirates or wherever.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 20:25
  #3919 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 891
Not sure anyone sounded surprised. Disappointed perhaps.

Someone definitely sounded a bit arrogant. While everyone starts at the bottom in BA, to suggest a person with 8000 hours at the bottom is bringing the same to the table as a 200 hour cadet is simply wrong.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 20:28
  #3920 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 128
True wiggy and yes I was well aware when I applied. But when I applied I was RHS at a LoCo. There were a number who joined BA in the previous intake and achieved LHS there within two years as long as they had the relevant experience. This made it attractive to apply. In the intervening period I have moved to LHS and the significant increase in salary is very important when you have young children. The seniority list at BA has become static and the road to command now looks a lot longer so to experienced applicants the proposition appears less attractive. Do not get me wrong. I would have loved to have flown for BA but the length of time to command means for someone like me in my circumstances, it is no longer the right choice.

The debate as to wether time in company is the most applicable of possible criteria to award promotion has been done several times before on here. But it is BA's way and we do all know that.
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