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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 25th Jul 2017, 10:14
  #3881 (permalink)  
RHS
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by akindofmagic View Post
Everything that's wrong with this industry neatly encapsulated in one sentence. How terribly sad.
Could not agree more. Offering to pay a TR undermines all of your future colleagues, and is the exact reason that BA and others are now going down a "white tail cadet" route.

Go and watch Tony Kerns 2014 CHC flight safety lecture on YouTube, he explains far more succinctly and eloquently what is happening here than I possibly could.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 10:51
  #3882 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by PressTheTit View Post

I for one, would do anything (including accepting all of the above) to secure my dream job of working for BA. I used to believe that BA was one of the few airlines remaining that valued some previous life and aviation experience when recruiting FOs but that looks to have died a death.

Anyway to my original point, why not ask the NTR in the pool if they would be willing to self fund or pay back TR costs? Or is it a case of not wanting to declare what BA has become?

Sorry to other swimmers for volunteering lower Ts and Cs but I think the writing is on the wall for me and others. Looks like I will have to go and pay CTC 10k+ to validate my flying experience to date, sad times!

I agree.

I would also accept to pay for a type rating or bond scheme. Not because I'm an desperate or unhappy (I'm am one of the youngest Capt in my company) but because I have a long career ahead of me and happy to look at the bigger picture

Just a shame if I don't get the chance to prove it
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 10:51
  #3883 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Posts: 53
Ouch, that hurts.

Draft rant deleted

I respect your comments.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 11:15
  #3884 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 670
You're "happy to look at the bigger picture"? A more deliciously ironic statement you could not had found.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 11:35
  #3885 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 691
I for one, would do anything (including accepting all of the above) to secure my dream job of working for BA
I hear what you are saying and I actually don't blame you, it is easy to turn around from a position of relative comfort and throw stones at the guys following the same path, but you have to accept that this huge desire (desperation) you and others have will ultimately bring the house down on all our Ts&Cs.

And the problem is that BA know this.

Good luck and I hope you get what you want - but only on the present terms and conditions!
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 11:37
  #3886 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 194
And when someone comes and undercuts you for your command, or Long Haul, or Part Time, or whatever your aspiration is? Is that ok, because they are "looking at the bigger picture"? What about those of us who are already rated? Are we shut out because we don't fit in the "bigger picture"?

This crab - bucket mentality absolutely stinks. This will be the third time in my career I've been passed over from hold pools in favour of CTC / zero hours cadets and it absolutely stinks. You stink.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 12:10
  #3887 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Posts: 53
For the record, I find the whole CTC cadet thing extremely distasteful (Oxford MPL even more so). However as long as the rules allow for dangerously low hour pilots to sit in the RHS (and hope that an issue doesn't require any experience to fall back on), then the gravy train will continue.

As much as it stinks, it is the reality! No amount of encouraging others not to do what you have probably already done will change anything.

I stand by my earlier comments, if I end up in the RHS 20k lighter then so be it. That is the reality everywhere else, and some!
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 12:31
  #3888 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 194
Ok, so it's every man for himself. Gotcha.

And no, I've never paid for a rating. Or paid off a training bond to jump ship. More fool me.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 12:38
  #3889 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 89
The more I read on this thread the more I am happy with my decision to stay where I am. BA is heading the same way anyway. Once a beacon holding out against the race to the bottom, it appears they have just joined the race. I will loose the opportunity of long haul in the future but will have had a command many many many years earlier.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 12:42
  #3890 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 89
Originally Posted by thetimesreader84 View Post
And when someone comes and undercuts you for your command, or Long Haul, or Part Time, or whatever your aspiration is? Is that ok, because they are "looking at the bigger picture"? What about those of us who are already rated? Are we shut out because we don't fit in the "bigger picture"?

This crab - bucket mentality absolutely stinks. This will be the third time in my career I've been passed over from hold pools in favour of CTC / zero hours cadets and it absolutely stinks. You stink.
Absolutely. 10 years in and still coming second to zero hours cadets. I aspired to BA because I respected the company and for the future chance of LH. I would have left my LHS to do it. Not now.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 13:32
  #3891 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by PressTheTit View Post
For the record, I find the whole CTC cadet thing extremely distasteful (Oxford MPL even more so). However as long as the rules allow for dangerously low hour pilots to sit in the RHS (and hope that an issue doesn't require any experience to fall back on), then the gravy train will continue.

As much as it stinks, it is the reality! No amount of encouraging others not to do what you have probably already done will change anything.

I stand by my earlier comments, if I end up in the RHS 20k lighter then so be it. That is the reality everywhere else, and some!
Agreed

And for The record for those of you who jump down our throats for saying the truth. I believe we both are in the hold pool and worked hard to get here.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 13:46
  #3892 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 344
Hugely disappointing. I'm well accustomed to the 'cost of everything, value of nothing' mentality at my current airline, but how sad to see the same now being applied at BA.
It's been like that at BA for most of my twenty years there. Get used to it.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 14:51
  #3893 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Earth
Posts: 607
I'm interested if any of you back in the day were handed a place on a cadet course leading to employment with BA, would you have rejected on moral principle and out of respect to those who were applying via direct entry? I think not ... I look through historical posts through some people in this thread and find a couple from earlier days regarding flight training, the likes of CTC/OAA et al being discussed etc etc ... yet now integrated schools producing cadets are the dark enemy?

Cadet programmes have been on for yonks and as far as I'm aware there is no correlation between them and aircraft crashing ... we don't want FAA 1500hr madness in Europe either so things are fine as they are.

Just to add, the FPP could not have exactly been cheap for BA. They paid the cadets in the region of 45,000+ flying pay, in addition to repaying them 84,000 training costs in the form of 12,000 a year. I'm not sure exactly on the numbers and how it all compares to a DE FO's salary, but unless they start DE guys on something like 65,000/annum it is hard to see how they have really made many savings? Probably some, but surely not enough to make any sort of a dent in the books.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 15:29
  #3894 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: FL370
Age: 33
Posts: 229
Cadet programmes have been on for yonks and as far as I'm aware there is no correlation between them and aircraft crashing ... we don't want FAA 1500hr madness in Europe either so things are fine as they are fine as they are.
I think people are getting wrapped up in the premise of cadet only recruitment. BA have always recruited from a wide range of backgrounds and experience. I'm sure that will continue. This is not the first time Whitetail cadets have been taken on. I have several friends who joined BA from Oxford this way in the mid 2000s.

Regarding the '1500hr madness' imposed by the FAA; I'm not sure it's actually all that bad a thing. I flew for a couple of the US regionals for five years. The 1500hr rule was introduced just after I moved over there. In the space of just half a decade the average starting salary of a brand new FO at a regional has TRIPLED from $20,000 per year to $60,000 year. Additionally 'signing' bonuses of up to $25k are being offered as an incentive to join various carriers. In turn money on offer at the 'majors' has also increased exponentially. US pilots are now some of the best paid in the world.

Now I realise our significantly smaller demand for GA flying in Europe means that such a rule would never work here; but don't mistake the impact of the eagerness to get straight into the right hand seat of a jet at any cost as being anything other than detrimental to your future terms and conditions.

Everyone has to start somewhere, we're very lucky to have a great mixture of experience at BA. The opportunity to join will come up again. It's awful the way it has turned out for many this time, and for that you have my sympathy. Unfortunately with BA this isn't the first time and it won't be the last.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 16:42
  #3895 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 19
I agree that cadets have every right to a chance as DEP. And for sure if was in the position to take that route I would.

I'm just surprised how much the holdpool candidates have been kept in the dark and prehaps lead on abit over the past year and a half.

Very disappointing for us I guess.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 19:27
  #3896 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: The EU
Posts: 180
Amazing how many people on here think they're owed a job, even more amazing to see how many are willing to undermine every single one of their future colleagues and lower T&Cs just to 'fly for BA'.

But then again, the most important thing is the selfie hanging out of the flight deck window wearing your hat, trying to prove to all of your fake Facebook friends that your life isn't so miserable.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 19:37
  #3897 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Give Current Ops a shout.
Posts: 952
Sorry, nothing really to do with the post, but just had a chuckle to myself on reading the pros and cons of experience versus cadets.

I moved seats 18 months ago in Airways and its always an interesting day out with with some of our FPP Legends...
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 20:10
  #3898 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: England
Posts: 30
Ha yeh... there's even one of them on Yammer asking what pay scale he will go to next year when he gets his Command....
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 20:11
  #3899 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post
Amazing how many people on here think they're owed a job, even more amazing to see how many are willing to undermine every single one of their future colleagues and lower T&Cs just to 'fly for BA'.

But then again, the most important thing is the selfie hanging out of the flight deck window wearing your hat, trying to prove to all of your fake Facebook friends that your life isn't so miserable.
Wow

Abit much. I'll take fake Facebook friends over trolling and being rude on a anonymous forum.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 20:59
  #3900 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 89
Wow, A bit much.
Says everything really. There was nothing rude about this post unless you do hang out of the flight deck window and post a pic on FB. If you do then you are seriously sad. The point of the post was serious. BA was the pinnacle of commercial flying in the UK. They had a mix of cadet and direct experienced intake. There is a place for cadets and that is healthy. But 100% ? It is clearly done because an a**e wipe accountant has won over on the financial argument.
Personally I will have to accept that a ten year desire to fly my flag is over having finally got into the swim pool. I will just have to make do with my LCC LHS. Reading some of the comments on here I am today not so unhappy about this.
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