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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 10th Mar 2020, 13:39
  #6941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Northwich
Posts: 10
I'm in the same boat, May 11th course 'postponed'. Cheeky bugger who called me said he 'hoped it would be months rather than years' before I get a course.

Problem I can see with BALPA/those involved kicking up a fuss is them cancelling the courses indefinitely as punishment, I really wouldn't put it past them to make an example of those to seek legal action based on their recently cold heartedness.
WorcesterPilot is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2020, 16:11
  #6942 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 609
This corona virus is serious. As soon as I heard you could be infectious before presenting symptoms, I knew it was a serious problem and I couldnít see the world treating it seriously enough. I still do not think it is being treated seriously enough, even with clear examples of heath services being crippled by the demand. A coordinated global effort is required to nip it in the bud, but the worlds leaders are hoping they can avoid economic damage by getting lucky with pussyfooting around.

That being said, whilst I am pleased the company are recognising the seriousness of this outbreak, I am both saddened and surprised that they are choosing to display their true colours to all future pilot applicants by cancelling signed contracts.

Good luck to you all.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2020, 18:40
  #6943 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: chances are, not at home
Posts: 274
Originally Posted by Jwscud View Post
I hope there are legal options available for breach of contract for those of you in such an awful position.
I don't think there are any - until you start, you don't have a contract in force, therefore there is no breach!
Joe le Taxi is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2020, 18:43
  #6944 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Northwich
Posts: 10
Quote from my friend who is a BALPA rep:

"It stinks. Itís also unexpected. Theyíve always honoured signed contracts even after 9/11 and in 2008"

Cheers union, makes all those union subs worth it.
WorcesterPilot is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2020, 19:13
  #6945 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Northwich
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by Joe le Taxi View Post
I don't think there are any - until you start, you don't have a contract in force, therefore there is no breach!
What's the point in signing it before day one then?
WorcesterPilot is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2020, 19:56
  #6946 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 774
Originally Posted by WorcesterPilot View Post
Quote from my friend who is a BALPA rep:

"It stinks. Itís also unexpected. Theyíve always honoured signed contracts even after 9/11 and in 2008"

Cheers union, makes all those union subs worth it.
Rams home the point I made earlier about our management. God knows what theyíre dreaming up now by way of salary reductions/redundancies. Sincere apologies and commiserations to those who are affected by all this. If anything itís a heads up and eye opener as to the true nature of the company you would have been joining. Fingers crossed you can get things sorted out ASAP. I get the feeling all of us are going to need good luck over the next few months.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2020, 21:59
  #6947 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Dark side of the Moon
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by Joe le Taxi View Post
I don't think there are any - until you start, you don't have a contract in force, therefore there is no breach!
Existing case law disagrees with you.
RogueOne is offline  
Old 10th Mar 2020, 23:28
  #6948 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 880
I would think this would qualify as ĎForce majeureí, BA are likely to be able to alleviate all contractural obligations to the new joiners whilst the effects of Corona Virus are impacting the business. Of course can only be applicable if the BA contract includes a clause allowing the application of Force Majeure but I would be shocked if they donít have it in the wording. Corona Virus is clearly an event outside of the control of both parties.
Ollie Onion is online now  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 04:06
  #6949 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Samsonite Avenue
Posts: 1,511
A friend of mine was due to start next month and he asked about hold pool validity and if there would be any ramifications of lack of currency, for those who have already resigned from their current position.

He said that he was assured that in a worst case scenario, there would be indefinite validity for those entering the hold pool again. There would also be no problem for those that may have a gap in flying activity, prior to eventual employment with BA.
Mister Geezer is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 07:48
  #6950 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 412
The current situation is unlike any before. This is expected to be a very significant but relatively short time frame event. What does the company do? In this situation it needs to minimise losses in the short term without affecting the medium term plans. If there were to be a panicked mass redundancy of hundreds of pilots, it would then prove very difficult to get them all back into work quickly enough when we see recovery.

We see offers for unpaid leave (up to one month), part time options and recruitment freezes (although did we not only two days ago recruit a load of new managers?). What’s the next step? Voluntary retirement package? Part time working across all pilots? As a group what we need to do is all take some of the pain and not see our more junior colleagues out of work. We all complain about workload, lack of time off and tax, this maybe a opportunity to address those issues and save jobs.

Yes I am full time, yes I would go 75% for a fixed period and no I am probably senior enough to not have to do that. I have been at risk a number of times and I was saved by the good will of more senior pilots and I am prepared to do the same for my colleagues.

All speculation of course, hopefully we don’t get to that point.
bex88 is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 09:10
  #6951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 5
Bex88

Great post, well said.
Sliderson is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 09:46
  #6952 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: 60 north
Age: 55
Posts: 15
Do not resign!

First I would like to express my deepest sympathy for the pilots here that resigned from current job after getting a contract and a start date with BA.
I have had the great joy to listen to probably 100s of FOs being on the way out of my outfit for greener grass.
It always strike me as odd how obsessed they are with " honoring" the present contract with regards to notice.
In bad times as we have had lately,there is no points for being a Gentleman. It is survival, for individuals and companies alike.
It is brutal but do NOT hand in resignation before course start at the new company. Burn that bridge if You have to.
Regards
Cpt B
BluSdUp is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 10:03
  #6953 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
First I would like to express my deepest sympathy for the pilots here that resigned from current job after getting a contract and a start date with BA.
I have had the great joy to listen to probably 100s of FOs being on the way out of my outfit for greener grass.
It always strike me as odd how obsessed they are with " honoring" the present contract with regards to notice.
In bad times as we have had lately,there is no points for being a Gentleman. It is survival, for individuals and companies alike.
It is brutal but do NOT hand in resignation before course start at the new company. Burn that bridge if You have to.
Regards
Cpt B
Surely they can have you for breach of contract if you do that?
Mylius is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 10:14
  #6954 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,625
Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
First I would like to express my deepest sympathy for the pilots here that resigned from current job after getting a contract and a start date with BA.
I have had the great joy to listen to probably 100s of FOs being on the way out of my outfit for greener grass.
It always strike me as odd how obsessed they are with " honoring" the present contract with regards to notice.
In bad times as we have had lately,there is no points for being a Gentleman. It is survival, for individuals and companies alike.
It is brutal but do NOT hand in resignation before course start at the new company. Burn that bridge if You have to.
Regards
Cpt B
If you have a notice period of 3 months, you have to give notice.
You can't just walk out the door. They will sue you for breach of contract, which you will lose. And it will cost lots.

If you've been given a start date then that constitutes an employment contract and it does not have to be verbal.
Unless there is a force majeur clause in any BA contract or agreement you sign, then they have to honour it.
LlamaFarmer is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 10:18
  #6955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: london
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
It always strike me as odd how obsessed they are with " honoring" the present contract with regards to notice.
In bad times as we have had lately,there is no points for being a Gentleman. It is survival, for individuals and companies alike.
It is brutal but do NOT hand in resignation before course start at the new company. Burn that bridge if You have to.
Regards
Cpt B
Iím sure Iíve heard worse advice in my life, but I certainly canít think of it right now.

kendrick47247 is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 10:56
  #6956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 68
Not a clever comment from Blu.Aviation has big ears and recruiters all know each other.
Besides if they hear you have left without notice,are you going to do it again.
Most airlines would ask for reference from previous employer,won’t end well with Blu advice.
Phantom4 is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 11:01
  #6957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cloud Cookoo Land
Posts: 1,271
First I would like to express my deepest sympathy for the pilots here that resigned from current job after getting a contract and a start date with BA.
I have had the great joy to listen to probably 100s of FOs being on the way out of my outfit for greener grass.
It always strike me as odd how obsessed they are with " honoring" the present contract with regards to notice.
In bad times as we have had lately,there is no points for being a Gentleman. It is survival, for individuals and companies alike.
It is brutal but do NOT hand in resignation before course start at the new company. Burn that bridge if You have to.
Regards
Cpt B
Remarkable. There's all sorts of integrity issues with his sort of behaviour and this is no industry for having your integrity questioned. I have nothing but sympathy for anyone who finds themsevles in hard times at the moment, through job loss or loss of potential employment, however taking this sort of advice will leave you as the biggest sitting duck on the lake.
Callsign Kilo is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 14:08
  #6958 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 710
Originally Posted by kendrick47247 View Post
Iím sure Iíve heard worse advice in my life, but I certainly canít think of it right now.

My thoughts exactly!
BitMoreRightRudder is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 14:53
  #6959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: FLSomething
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by LlamaFarmer View Post
If you have a notice period of 3 months, you have to give notice.
You can't just walk out the door. They will sue you for breach of contract, which you will lose. And it will cost lots.

If you've been given a start date then that constitutes an employment contract and it does not have to be verbal.
Unless there is a force majeur clause in any BA contract or agreement you sign, then they have to honour it.
No they wonít. They can take you to the high court to seek an injunction to stop you working but why an earth would they bother for a pilot. Yes if youíre a board member who is a genuine threat to the business by going elsewhere, just a pilot though? Absolutely not.

Sorry to say it but if you think you are that important that Ezy/Ryanair will fight that hard to keep you (particularly at the moment) then youíre nuts.

Integrity argument... kind of. Again... do you think your new employer actually gives a damn? There is no blacklist of people that have jumped ship, you forget youíre just a number (not always a bad thing!)

Not to say that people should run out and start doing this (ideally youíd always want to honour your employment obligations obviously!) but there has to come a point where you put yourself first if the circumstances demand it. Imagine youíre working in an office with a three month notice period waiting for your first airline job and your dream job phones you up and wants you in the very next day, of course youíd be there, as would everyone reading this. Itís really not that different.

Last edited by VariablePitchP; 11th Mar 2020 at 15:31.
VariablePitchP is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 15:21
  #6960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Dublin
Posts: 54
Not that Iím advocating this but I remember a few years ago TAP were offering positions at very short notice and were actively encouraging pilots to leave their previous company without notice, saying they were happy for them to join without a reference etc.

At an airline where recruitment/movement up the MSL is slower than BA, the DOJ was even more important and I know FR for example lost a not insignificant number almost overnight!
The Foss is offline  

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