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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 11th Mar 2020, 16:37
  #6941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: FLSomething
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
" All recruiters know each other!" NO!
" He might need a reference,," For what , he just started in BA, Only leaving for the Oldfolks Home!
A company I know of does not even give reference!! So arrange with a " friendly" Cpt or Trainer to give You a letter!
" You will get sued " NO! FOR WHAT! Two of my friends left with no notice , never heard a thing!
" Aviation has big ears" NO! It used to , when it was the CP or Head of Training doing the culling of CVs on his table. HR is a different beast.

I am afraid we have quite a few pilots presently working the last days of notice. To be available for a course that might not start until next February.
This is the context I issue this advice to be considered for anyone in similar position in these uncertain times.
I would not advice this for normal procedure, not even Non Normal , we are talking Recall Item Emergency here!

I have been way to many places in my 32 years in Aviation and this crisis has the potential to unhinge the market for us pilots like nothing I have ever seen.
But by all means question my integrity for coming with tough advice.
I am not going anywhere.
For now!
Good Luck to All
Cpt B
Great post

Key takeaway here is the HR point. References really donít exist anymore. All you will EVER get is a Ďconfirmation of employment datesí or something similarly titled. Reason is no one wants to be sued for giving a bad reference so are scared of them, quite reasonably. And absolutely right about the chief pilot point, modern airlines are not old boys clubs where if daddy wore the right squadron tie you got in, everyone is equal and youíre based purely on the application, nothing else.
VariablePitchP is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 17:10
  #6942 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hundred Acre Wood
Posts: 260
I expect that once this crisis is over, BA wonít be able to get new pilots in fast enough. They have acquired the Flybe slots and Iíd be very surprised if they sell any of those.
Doug E Style is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 17:24
  #6943 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: The EU
Posts: 401
Plenty of people have left Ryanair without serving their notice period. I flew with a captain who received a job offer on a turnaround down route, handed his ID and iPad in on return to base and was never seen again. Itís not the worst advice in the world in the current climate, and airlines have bigger fish to fry right now than chasing an FO for not serving their notice.

The best advice though is donít go to BA. Their true colours have been shown in their treatment of pilots and cabin crew with signed contracts to join. From what I gather, the goodwill doesnít improve after joining either.
Vokes55 is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 17:56
  #6944 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: EU
Age: 44
Posts: 918
Originally Posted by Vokes55 View Post
Plenty of people have left Ryanair without serving their notice period. I flew with a captain who received a job offer on a turnaround down route, handed his ID and iPad in on return to base and was never seen again. Itís not the worst advice in the world in the current climate, and airlines have bigger fish to fry right now than chasing an FO for not serving their notice.

The best advice though is donít go to BA. Their true colours have been shown in their treatment of pilots and cabin crew with signed contracts to join. From what I gather, the goodwill doesnít improve after joining either.
i donít think they are any different to any other company.
Phensocks is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 19:53
  #6945 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Northwich
Posts: 10
Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
" All recruiters know each other!" NO!
" He might need a reference,," For what , he just started in BA, Only leaving for the Oldfolks Home!
A company I know of does not even give reference!! So arrange with a " friendly" Cpt or Trainer to give You a letter!
" You will get sued " NO! FOR WHAT! Two of my friends left with no notice , never heard a thing!
" Aviation has big ears" NO! It used to , when it was the CP or Head of Training doing the culling of CVs on his table. HR is a different beast.

I am afraid we have quite a few pilots presently working the last days of notice. To be available for a course that might not start until next February.
This is the context I issue this advice to be considered for anyone in similar position in these uncertain times.
I would not advice this for normal procedure, not even Non Normal , we are talking Recall Item Emergency here!

I have been way to many places in my 32 years in Aviation and this crisis has the potential to unhinge the market for us pilots like nothing I have ever seen.
But by all means question my integrity for coming with tough advice.
I am not going anywhere.
For now!
Good Luck to All
Cpt B
Out of interest, where's this no course until next February coming from?
WorcesterPilot is offline  
Old 11th Mar 2020, 22:54
  #6946 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Doha
Age: 10
Posts: 435
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
The current situation is unlike any before. This is expected to be a very significant but relatively short time frame event. What does the company do? In this situation it needs to minimise losses in the short term without affecting the medium term plans. If there were to be a panicked mass redundancy of hundreds of pilots, it would then prove very difficult to get them all back into work quickly enough when we see recovery.

We see offers for unpaid leave (up to one month), part time options and recruitment freezes (although did we not only two days ago recruit a load of new managers?). Whatís the next step? Voluntary retirement package? Part time working across all pilots? As a group what we need to do is all take some of the pain and not see our more junior colleagues out of work. We all complain about workload, lack of time off and tax, this maybe a opportunity to address those issues and save jobs.

Yes I am full time, yes I would go 75% for a fixed period and no I am probably senior enough to not have to do that. I have been at risk a number of times and I was saved by the good will of more senior pilots and I am prepared to do the same for my colleagues.

All speculation of course, hopefully we donít get to that point.
bex88, I donít know you nor have I ever met you, but I would gladly buy you a beer if and when we ever crossed paths.
Black Pudding is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2020, 10:35
  #6947 (permalink)  
RHS
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 106
Here here Bex 88. Calmer heads need to prevail over the next 6 months.
RHS is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2020, 19:55
  #6948 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 125
This is just a completely unprecedented situation which is quite clearly going to require some sacrifice from everyone if no one is to lose their job.

The press conference today with the CSO and CMO suggests we are 10-14 weeks away from the "peak" of the epidemic in the UK. But it WILL be back next winter. Companies are going to have to take action which preserves their survival through till 2021 when a vaccine is available. Personally I suspect government intervention will sooner or later be necessary, but we're obviously not there yet.

Anyone who underestimates the challenges we face over the coming months is only deluding themselves. We have to stick together and try to share whatever pain is coming our way.
Northern Monkey is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2020, 20:44
  #6949 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: U.K.
Posts: 244
Originally Posted by Northern Monkey View Post
This is just a completely unprecedented situation which is quite clearly going to require some sacrifice from everyone if no one is to lose their job.
.
Well, coincidently, a number of pilots will be without a job following their soon-to-be employer deciding to withdraw their job offer...
TheAirMission is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2020, 20:58
  #6950 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: 60 north
Age: 56
Posts: 19
Worchester

Why do I pick NEXT February?
Well, considering they just closed Norway as I was out fishing today, I would say the hysteria has just begun!
( 600 cases and 1 dead ! )
Anyway
I could be wrong, but no airline , in Europe needs a single extra pilot the next 13 months!!
Easter starts 1 April 2021 and then summer starts with a lot of pent up " travel energy" amongst the survivors. Airlines and folks alike.
As an old Head of Training I happen to know a thing or two about recruitment and providing the Max is back and the Corona is backing off, there is no point in committing to new pilots until well after newyear.
I hope I am wrong, and feel free to remind me if I am,

Stay healthy!
Cpt B
BluSdUp is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2020, 22:11
  #6951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Sussex
Posts: 4
Originally Posted by BluSdUp View Post
Why do I pick NEXT February?
Well, considering they just closed Norway as I was out fishing today, I would say the hysteria has just begun!
( 600 cases and 1 dead ! )
Anyway
I could be wrong, but no airline , in Europe needs a single extra pilot the next 13 months!!
Easter starts 1 April 2021 and then summer starts with a lot of pent up " travel energy" amongst the survivors. Airlines and folks alike.
As an old Head of Training I happen to know a thing or two about recruitment and providing the Max is back and the Corona is backing off, there is no point in committing to new pilots until well after newyear.
I hope I am wrong, and feel free to remind me if I am,

Stay healthy!
Cpt B
Sounds like Blu has caught the supposed hysteria from Norway! Picking random numbers and dates out of the air does not a sensible analysis make.

Considering there has not been a virus like this for a generation, there is no relevant comparison. Watching interviews with actual professional analysts, they say there is a pick up in holiday bookings for this winter (ie delaying their summer holidays), so I suspect we will see a quick economic pick up in the second half of this year.

Iím going to stick to the professional advice from scientists and economists rather than guess work based on pure speculation.
Berbly is offline  
Old 12th Mar 2020, 22:37
  #6952 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 711
bex88
What’s the next step? Voluntary retirement package?
Voluntary ‘redundancy’, (I presume that’s what you mean?) comes at a cost to the employer. As those volunteers may not come from the fleets the employer would prefer to shed pilots.

How much of your own T&Cs are you prepared to sacrifice for redundancies to be VR rather than CR? (If your union are even in a position to influence your employer??

I see you are rather senior, and don’t feel under any threat? You have been ‘saved’ more than once by your colleagues. That’s great. You’re well placed to take one for the team.

Last edited by 4468; 12th Mar 2020 at 22:48.
4468 is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2020, 13:01
  #6953 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 473
4468. 100% I am willing to take a part time working option or job share for a fixed term.

I feel under threat. I have seniority within the company and on fleet but not in P1 status.

I can pay my bills with less money. It will not be fun but I will do that so colleagues do not loose everything.

Yes VR costs money but it is something which has been offered in the past. Surly it needs to be a option made available should anyone wish to accept it. Regardless of seniority, now is the time to come together and share the burden.

Alex Cruz’s video message does not sound good at all.
bex88 is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2020, 13:56
  #6954 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
Originally Posted by bex88 View Post
Alex Cruzís video message does not sound good at all.
Agreed. I have to say I am feeling pretty vulnerable on the 747, but I resigned myself to it months ago. The minute I heard this was infectious with few or no symptoms, I knew it was already out of China and it was going to be serious on a global scale. People were saying it is just the flu, but I knew it was not. A new virus is always more of a problem than an old one such as the flu, because of the lack of resistance within the population. I suspect the rumours from months ago, of twenty jumbos being offloaded early, is bang on the money.
GS-Alpha is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2020, 14:44
  #6955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere in the sky
Posts: 59
more likely unpaid leaves, but yes, it's coming. brace for impact
PilotRoger is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2020, 16:15
  #6956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 123
An inevitable outcome , Yes BA makes large amounts of money BUT thatís lots of staff and lots of empty aircraft .
I often think if we didnít have media we would all be sailing along with out a care , itís so blown out of proportion!!
Riskybis is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2020, 16:19
  #6957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: London
Posts: 123

Riskybis is offline  
Old 13th Mar 2020, 19:43
  #6958 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: FLSomething
Posts: 158
Originally Posted by Riskybis View Post
An inevitable outcome , Yes BA makes large amounts of money BUT thatís lots of staff and lots of empty aircraft .
I often think if we didnít have media we would all be sailing along with out a care , itís so blown out of proportion!!
Iím afraid that attitude is a big part of the problem. It isnít blown out of proportion, at all.

Google the Spanish flu of 1918, if itís anything like that then BILLIONS may be infected. The whole Ďmeh, more people die of the fluí is what will kill people because if thatís what you believe then youíre not going to be doing your hit by self isolating, washing hands constantly and being cautious. Society has to beat this collectively, any chinks in the collective and the whole defence is worthless.

Last edited by VariablePitchP; 14th Mar 2020 at 22:51.
VariablePitchP is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2020, 03:56
  #6959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Neither here or there
Posts: 163
I'm not sure about that. I'm a 'meh, more people die of the flu' type (because it's TRUE) but at the same time the majority of people are not going to let their guard down with Covid-19 especially considering the hourly barrage of news updates and statistics.
CW247 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2020, 05:56
  #6960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
It would be so wonderful if it turns out that more people end up dying of flu than of Cov19, however without the so called madness going on across the world right now, there is absolutely no way that statement would hold true. Sadly, even with the current action, flu related death figures are highly likely to be dwarfed by the Cov19 related death figures over at least the next two year period. After that, the world will hopefully have developed similar levels of immunity to Cov19 as it has to flu, and the figures may well come a bit closer together. Anyone who thinks all of the economic carnage of the last month or so is simply due to some overblown media coverage of a harmless disease, really needs to pull their head out of the sand.
GS-Alpha is offline  

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