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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 7th Feb 2019, 16:46
  #5901 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by VOR.DME View Post
I've been reading this thread for longer than I care to remember and I have a few things to throw into the mix regarding the gripes people seem to have with BA.

At a regional airline in the UK, the pay deal initially offered gave Captains a one off four-figure sum and left the person in the right hand seat with nothing. Naturally, BALPA members voted quite overwhelmingly to reject this offer. A new offer was tabled which was 1.29% for every member of flight crew. This was accepted by members.

With regards to complaints about working every weekend and changing from earlies to lates. At a regional airline in the UK, there is no fixed pattern roster. You will go from six earlies with one day off to five lates with two or three days off. It can also work in reverse (six lates with two days off to five earlies, thereby giving you the minimum amount of time off). There are stories of captains working seven days in a row because there is such a shortage (and this is the winter schedule, bear in mind). Many of the shifts worked are frequently four, five or six-sector days. Some of the duties rostered leave crews with 10 minutes extra over the minimum 12 hours rest. Factor in the drive home...

There are stories of crews who are operating out of base for several days at a time to cover the shortfalls. Forget seeing your family grow up!

There are a number of other things that could be mentioned, however in the spirit of remaining anonymous, I'll leave it there.

Now tell me why BA is so bad?
BA isn't a regional airline in the UK? Struggle to see your point. Why don't you compare it something remotely similar?
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 18:55
  #5902 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 767
Under JSS thus far I’ve managed a minimum of 4 weekend days off per month, in both cases with one full weekend off and the other days saturdays with late reports on Sunday. Throw in some trips landing before 0900 on a Sunday and you can get a surprising amount of weekend time with the family if you live relatively close to LHR.

This is actually much much better than I used to get on a blind line, where the work left over was disproportionality low credit weekend work.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 19:05
  #5903 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Timba Hold
Posts: 48
Originally Posted by Jwscud View Post
Under JSS thus far I’ve managed a minimum of 4 weekend days off per month, in both cases with one full weekend off and the other days saturdays with late reports on Sunday. Throw in some trips landing before 0900 on a Sunday and you can get a surprising amount of weekend time with the family if you live relatively close to LHR.

This is actually much much better than I used to get on a blind line, where the work left over was disproportionality low credit weekend work.
wait till the senior boys learn to bid (and cap+4 in summer!)

Last edited by MikeAlpha320; 7th Feb 2019 at 19:06. Reason: add
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 19:57
  #5904 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by MikeAlpha320 View Post
BA isn't a regional airline in the UK? Struggle to see your point. Why don't you compare it something remotely similar?
The comparison isn't between a regional carrier and BA, its the fact that several people on this thread complain about certain perks but don't realise how good it is on their side of the grass. Some airlines in the UK have pulled crew food, for example. Having read this thread long enough, it just sounds that some have come from a gifted background and haven't "cut their teeth" like some others.
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Old 7th Feb 2019, 20:46
  #5905 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 661
VOR.DME with respect, I think you should leave it there. Yes there are many people here who don’t know anything different but I’m BA, I’ve spent time at Flybe doing six sector days and a lot of the things you are grumbling about and I’ve also worked at Wizz Air. Unless you have experienced pay, CRM, attitudes and intimidation from management and the brutal rostering at Wizz you have no idea how far the bottom of the barrel actually goes. So yes there are worse places, but that’s not to say the grumbles highlighted here aren’t justified, some of them very much are. Does a man who lost his legs on 7/7 not have the right to complain because others died? Extreme example but there’s always someone worse off, we shouldn’t be using that justify an untenable position and a degradation in conditions.

Last edited by RexBanner; 7th Feb 2019 at 20:58.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 07:49
  #5906 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 39
....and seemingly you’d be surprised at just how many BA pilots have ‘cut their teeth’ elsewhere. Most likely the majority of the pilot workforce.

With respect, you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

Last edited by DuctOvht; 14th Feb 2019 at 07:32.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 12:09
  #5907 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: France / UK
Age: 64
Posts: 880
I’ve instructed 3,500hrs in Cessnas and Pipers, flown air taxi and air survey in Aztecs, Senecas, Doves and Navajos, did a three year stint on exec jets and then ten years on 737 Charter ops before joining BA.

So, I reckon I’ve cut my teeth.

Now I fly a lovely new BA 787 from the LHS and I do feel very privileged and lucky.

BA is still great compared to most other UK pilot jobs, but could be so much better for comparatively little extra investment and things have definitely gone downhill in the twenty years that I’ve been here.

I don’t have a lot to complain about but I would support others in BA who do.
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 13:54
  #5908 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 8
Back in my box I go then!
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Old 8th Feb 2019, 14:41
  #5909 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,140
Originally Posted by VOR.DME View Post
Back in my box I go then!
If you are, don’t take it personally..there are still many out there who think that absolutely everybody at BA is a Nigel who went to finishing school and then joined BA via Hamble or some sort of cadet scheme.

The reality these days is most of the current BA line pilots have indeed “cut their teeth” in variety of flying jobs with all sorts of operators and organisations prior to joining the company as a DEP in their thirties, forties or even a bit older...

wiggy is online now  
Old 9th Feb 2019, 10:05
  #5910 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: France / UK
Age: 64
Posts: 880
Hi VOR.DME,

No offence taken and none intended!

As Wiggy said, most of the guys and gals that I fly with are ex military and/or DEPs from other airlines. Makes for an interesting mix of people (but all fitting the BA selection profile, whatever that is).

On the odd occasion that I come across a Cadet, sponsored or self-funded, who joined BA straight out of Oxford or wherever, I can’t help feeling a little sorry for them for missing the variety of experience that I enjoyed. OTOH, if one of my kids had that opportunity, I wouldn’t try to talk them out of it.

I had a good position and base in the 737 Charter world and it was a tough decision to join BA at the age of 42. I’m glad I did but I wouldn’t presume to advise others to do the same as it’s now a different time and situation. In any case, it’s not a one-way street as some have recently shown by going back to whence they came. Good luck to all.
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Old 11th Feb 2019, 19:46
  #5911 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Kernow
Posts: 19
Has anybody who applied in the latest window (ended on the 31st) heard anything back re: their application?
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 06:14
  #5912 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 281
Originally Posted by MaydayMaydayMayday View Post
How long do you think it's going to take to reach 50% on the 777 list as a DEP FO? Maybe a decade?
Less at the moment but thats based on the current rate of recruitment continuing.

I’ve been in just under 4 years, currently hovering around 75% on the 777.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 09:13
  #5913 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 542
Originally Posted by 2 Whites 2 Reds View Post


Less at the moment but thats based on the current rate of recruitment continuing.

I’ve been in just under 4 years, currently hovering around 75% on the 777.
You joined just at the head of the latest crazy wave of recruitment then. It is the same story on the 747 because there has been unprecedented DEP recruitment over that time. Someone joining now still has many people to come in behind them, but they also have the last 4 or 5 years worth of shorthaul DEPs and FPPs who are eagerly awaiting a move to long haul. I also would not be surprised if we start seeing some of the more junior short haul captains decide they would prefer to move RHS long haul due to the decline in their quality of life due to JSS.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 09:21
  #5914 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,140
Someone joining now still has many people to come in behind them, but they also have the last 4 or 5 years worth of shorthaul DEPs and FPPs who are eagerly awaiting a move to long haul.
They may have many people coming in behind, who knows? ... That said you are right to point out that all things being equal and agreements staying "as is" they are behind everybody who has joined before them. In my experience guessing where someone will be in terms of fleet seniority in 4-5 years time is making themselves hostage to fortune..

I also would not be surprised if we start seeing some of the more junior short haul captains decide they would prefer to move RHS long haul due to the decline in their quality of life due to JSS.
That could well start happening, and FWIW judging by a conversation on Yammer very recently there is more than one short haul captain considering/discussing going back to RHS short haul due JSS.....

Last edited by wiggy; 12th Feb 2019 at 10:39.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 11:34
  #5915 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
They may have many people coming in behind, who knows? ... That said you are right to point out that all things being equal and agreements staying "as is" they are behind everybody who has joined before them. In my experience guessing where someone will be in terms of fleet seniority in 4-5 years time is making themselves hostage to fortune..



there is more than one short haul captain considering/discussing going back to RHS short haul due JSS.....
Certainly a lot more than one would have thought.....
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 12:48
  #5916 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 661
Originally Posted by GS-Alpha View Post
Someone joining now still has many people to come in behind them, but they also have the last 4 or 5 years worth of shorthaul DEPs and FPPs who are eagerly awaiting a move to long haul.
But who won’t get it because the company now prefers to hire Direct Entry Pilots straight into long haul due cost at the expense of First Officers on the airbus. Direct Entry A350 actually made me want to be sick, it’s about as big a slap to the face of the Airbus P2 community as you could possibly imagine.
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:19
  #5917 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Here
Age: 49
Posts: 37
At what point during the process can you state a preference for SH/LH, and when are you told whether you’ve got LH/SH? Im potentially interested for the future but SH wouldn’t work for me.

Is it a case of being willing to jack in the current job, joining (if they’d have me) then just keeping fingers crossed?
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 14:03
  #5918 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Within 3 hours of a suitable alternate
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by RexBanner View Post


But who won’t get it because the company now prefers to hire Direct Entry Pilots straight into long haul due cost at the expense of First Officers on the airbus. Direct Entry A350 actually made me want to be sick, it’s about as big a slap to the face of the Airbus P2 community as you could possibly imagine.

But that's been going on for the last 30 plus years so hardly new, except the SH fleet wasn't Airbus if that's a consideration.

(DEP who joined straight on the most senior fleet at the time)
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 14:29
  #5919 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 542
red9 are you still frozen?
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Old 12th Feb 2019, 14:58
  #5920 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: London
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Daily Dalaman Dave View Post
At what point during the process can you state a preference for SH/LH, and when are you told whether you’ve got LH/SH? Im potentially interested for the future but SH wouldn’t work for me.

Is it a case of being willing to jack in the current job, joining (if they’d have me) then just keeping fingers crossed?
I didn't get a chance to express a preference for LH/SH - and nor do I think it would be wise to voice one.

I was in a similar situation as you - I wouldn't have been able to accept SH due to family commitments and the long commute. I took the view that I would just go through the motions and see what I was offered, then make up my mind. I'm not sure either party benefit from this and it would seem sensible for both to state their intentions from the outset; but what do I know.

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