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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 25th Jul 2017, 07:50
  #3861 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 435
Hey Wiggy.

No assault on BALPA intended. If new terms were introduced for DEP cadets I would have thought that any change to employment contracts would have to go through the union. Perhaps that's only the case for existing employees. BALPA looks after a wide demographic and it's never going to be possible to represent the margins. Straight up honesty we all look after ourselves then the group. PP24/PP34 NAPS/BARP etc etc.....you know what fair play that was the deal at the time. My interest is more towards having a strong and stable (Thanks Theresa) company over the argument of self funded type ratings etc. Yes I paid for mine and yes my salary was reduced for experience or lack of at my first employer.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 08:04
  #3862 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 38
Posts: 435
EMB-145LR. Post 3902 That's all anyone needs to read. Spot on and almost the same as I witnessed in response to a colleagues questioning.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 08:19
  #3863 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 239
there won't be any non-type rated DEP recruitment in 2018
Just for clarity, my email says no DEP at all in 2018 - it makes no distinction between Type rated / Non type rated.

I was going to write about my opinions of CTC and how it applies to this situation, but have deleted the draft. The whole thing is just sad. I always thought that outside of its own Cadet scheme, BA valued experience for its crews. Obviously no longer. Race to the bottom intensifies.

Good luck everyone. Not sure where I go from here to be honest. It's not the "no recruitment" that stings, it's (if true) being passed over (once again) in favour of a 350 hour "white tail" hero with deep pockets and a debt to service.
thetimesreader84 is online now  
Old 25th Jul 2017, 09:07
  #3864 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 845
Originally Posted by EMB-145LR View Post
The company haven't said they won't be plucking people out of the pool, just that there won't be any non-type rated DEP recruitment in 2018.
I have to concur with the above post on this issue, the copy of the email sent to hold poolers that I have been party to makes no reference to either type rated/non type rated. It simply says that no one in the hold pool will get a start date in 2018. This email postdates any information about the recruitment plan on yammer so the stuff on there is already out of date.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 09:08
  #3865 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 84
Hugely disappointing. I'm well accustomed to the 'cost of everything, value of nothing' mentality at my current airline, but how sad to see the same now being applied at BA.

I've been through BA's highly unpleasant and convoluted recruitment process several times to get this far and now they want yet another interview. And when does this extra year in the pool even extend to? From our initial year, from 18 months...? I was due to expire mid next year - do I now expire mid 2019?

Either way, 2019 is a long way away, and with the prospect of a job offer becoming ever more speculative I imagine many in the pool will have taken other roads long before BA open the doors to DEP again. What a shame.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 09:11
  #3866 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Right of the Middle
Posts: 342
What am I missing? The email directly contradicts things that I and others (namely Wiggy) have heard directly from within the company, and it includes the caveat that everything is...

"subject to change as we have not yet received the network plan for 2018 nor has the pilot annual bid been completed."
So why send an email out that will only disappoint/piss off people when it may well turn out to be inaccurate? Clearly there are greater forces at work behind the scenes...

Count me in the pissed off group. BA was always the goal, and I threw my heart and soul into the recruitment (the application for which went in a year ago today coincidentally) and now the goal posts continue to move. Assuming (brave, given their form!) that I might get an offer sometime early 2019, I'll be within a year of a command course where I am...
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 09:26
  #3867 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 33
Posts: 31
I personally think for all of those in the holdpool (including myself) it might be time to swallow the bitter pill and assume this time round it just wont happen. For the recruitment team to be bold enough to say at this stage they expect no offers to be made to those in the pool in 2018 means just that and they wouldnt send that message out without a strong belief in it based on whats infront of them. Like many (i assume) im gutted but i think being hopefull (especially at this stage) is probably more detrimental than positive.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 09:59
  #3868 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: England
Posts: 180
I for one, would do anything (including accepting all of the above) to secure my dream job of working for BA.
Everything that's wrong with this industry neatly encapsulated in one sentence. How terribly sad.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 10:14
  #3869 (permalink)  
RHS
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by akindofmagic View Post
Everything that's wrong with this industry neatly encapsulated in one sentence. How terribly sad.
Could not agree more. Offering to pay a TR undermines all of your future colleagues, and is the exact reason that BA and others are now going down a "white tail cadet" route.

Go and watch Tony Kerns 2014 CHC flight safety lecture on YouTube, he explains far more succinctly and eloquently what is happening here than I possibly could.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 10:51
  #3870 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by PressTheTit View Post

I for one, would do anything (including accepting all of the above) to secure my dream job of working for BA. I used to believe that BA was one of the few airlines remaining that valued some previous life and aviation experience when recruiting FOs but that looks to have died a death.

Anyway to my original point, why not ask the NTR in the pool if they would be willing to self fund or pay back TR costs? Or is it a case of not wanting to declare what BA has become?

Sorry to other swimmers for volunteering lower Ts and Cs but I think the writing is on the wall for me and others. Looks like I will have to go and pay CTC 10k+ to validate my flying experience to date, sad times!

I agree.

I would also accept to pay for a type rating or bond scheme. Not because I'm an desperate or unhappy (I'm am one of the youngest Capt in my company) but because I have a long career ahead of me and happy to look at the bigger picture

Just a shame if I don't get the chance to prove it
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 10:51
  #3871 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Posts: 53
Ouch, that hurts.

Draft rant deleted

I respect your comments.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 11:15
  #3872 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 845
You're "happy to look at the bigger picture"? A more deliciously ironic statement you could not had found.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 11:35
  #3873 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 714
I for one, would do anything (including accepting all of the above) to secure my dream job of working for BA
I hear what you are saying and I actually don't blame you, it is easy to turn around from a position of relative comfort and throw stones at the guys following the same path, but you have to accept that this huge desire (desperation) you and others have will ultimately bring the house down on all our Ts&Cs.

And the problem is that BA know this.

Good luck and I hope you get what you want - but only on the present terms and conditions!
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 11:37
  #3874 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 239
And when someone comes and undercuts you for your command, or Long Haul, or Part Time, or whatever your aspiration is? Is that ok, because they are "looking at the bigger picture"? What about those of us who are already rated? Are we shut out because we don't fit in the "bigger picture"?

This crab - bucket mentality absolutely stinks. This will be the third time in my career I've been passed over from hold pools in favour of CTC / zero hours cadets and it absolutely stinks. You stink.
thetimesreader84 is online now  
Old 25th Jul 2017, 12:10
  #3875 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: England
Posts: 53
For the record, I find the whole CTC cadet thing extremely distasteful (Oxford MPL even more so). However as long as the rules allow for dangerously low hour pilots to sit in the RHS (and hope that an issue doesn't require any experience to fall back on), then the gravy train will continue.

As much as it stinks, it is the reality! No amount of encouraging others not to do what you have probably already done will change anything.

I stand by my earlier comments, if I end up in the RHS 20k lighter then so be it. That is the reality everywhere else, and some!
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 12:31
  #3876 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 239
Ok, so it's every man for himself. Gotcha.

And no, I've never paid for a rating. Or paid off a training bond to jump ship. More fool me.
thetimesreader84 is online now  
Old 25th Jul 2017, 12:38
  #3877 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 121
The more I read on this thread the more I am happy with my decision to stay where I am. BA is heading the same way anyway. Once a beacon holding out against the race to the bottom, it appears they have just joined the race. I will loose the opportunity of long haul in the future but will have had a command many many many years earlier.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 12:42
  #3878 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: North London at last
Posts: 121
Originally Posted by thetimesreader84 View Post
And when someone comes and undercuts you for your command, or Long Haul, or Part Time, or whatever your aspiration is? Is that ok, because they are "looking at the bigger picture"? What about those of us who are already rated? Are we shut out because we don't fit in the "bigger picture"?

This crab - bucket mentality absolutely stinks. This will be the third time in my career I've been passed over from hold pools in favour of CTC / zero hours cadets and it absolutely stinks. You stink.
Absolutely. 10 years in and still coming second to zero hours cadets. I aspired to BA because I respected the company and for the future chance of LH. I would have left my LHS to do it. Not now.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 13:32
  #3879 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by PressTheTit View Post
For the record, I find the whole CTC cadet thing extremely distasteful (Oxford MPL even more so). However as long as the rules allow for dangerously low hour pilots to sit in the RHS (and hope that an issue doesn't require any experience to fall back on), then the gravy train will continue.

As much as it stinks, it is the reality! No amount of encouraging others not to do what you have probably already done will change anything.

I stand by my earlier comments, if I end up in the RHS 20k lighter then so be it. That is the reality everywhere else, and some!
Agreed

And for The record for those of you who jump down our throats for saying the truth. I believe we both are in the hold pool and worked hard to get here.
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Old 25th Jul 2017, 13:46
  #3880 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Home of the Gnomes
Posts: 375
Hugely disappointing. I'm well accustomed to the 'cost of everything, value of nothing' mentality at my current airline, but how sad to see the same now being applied at BA.
It's been like that at BA for most of my twenty years there. Get used to it.
Tay Cough is offline  

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