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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 27th Jul 2017, 17:23
  #3941 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: York
Posts: 682
Saab
All in all quite dissapointed with the news. Still not giving up hope completely, who knows what'll change. I've nowgot till October 2018 to just keep swimming...

What I don't understand though are the latest rumours combined with a few facts:

- part time will be issued
- new 787s on the way
- introduction of the 350 in '19?
- some retirement
- different rostering systems
- fleet bidding still open
- no final network plan as of yet

Rumours:
- between 150-200 new pilots needed, all from different sources and yammer

How come they are only taking 65 now?
What you seem to be 'missing' is something already contained in your list. The "different rostering system" is JSS. This will ensure that all pilots meet their CAP commitment every month. Currently many Blind Line Holders only manage that with the use of (often useless!) Time Assignable.

Ergo, fewer pilots required by BA to cover the same amount of work!

Because we don't want to digress, we won't bother explaining where the trips, currently unavailable to junior BLHs will come from!
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 18:26
  #3942 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 661
4468, you're probably right in as much as potentially fewer pilots to cover the work. But that, in my opinion, still won't mitigate all the other factors. There's going to be more than just the 65, but I suspect they're going to be white tail cadets, then DEP will cover any unforeseen holes after the flying programme/bid results are known (if any).
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 19:31
  #3943 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 37
Posts: 372
640hrs in a year on blind lines........20% less than most trip line holders.
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 13:58
  #3944 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: six micro tesla zone
Age: 27
Posts: 367
This is one of my favourite threads on PPRuNe, but I've never posted until now.

May I be so bold as to ask what a full-time, LH, TRE, with say 25 years senerority could expect to earn at BA?

IMHO. Maybe it's a flaw with my generation or maybe I wear rose tinted glasses, but most people my age do not seem to play the long game and are not prepared to invest longterm into their career and await the fruits of their labour.

This is not a shot at guys on this thread in their mid 30s+ with kids and mortgages. I understand you can not hang around waiting for T&Cs to improve when you are in that stage of your life.

So, in light of my intial question, surely BA is still a company to aim for if you are my age?
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 14:40
  #3945 (permalink)  
VJW
Sciolist (look it up) of the first order
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 757
FO or Captain?
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 15:52
  #3946 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 134
What's your age ?
With the rise of low cost LH I'm sure BA will have to make more cost cuts too "streamline" its operations
Pp24-pp34 ?
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 15:54
  #3947 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 232
Originally Posted by MaverickPrime View Post
This is one of my favourite threads on PPRuNe, but I've never posted until now.

May I be so bold as to ask what a full-time, LH, TRE, with say 25 years senerority could expect to earn at BA?

IMHO. Maybe it's a flaw with my generation or maybe I wear rose tinted glasses, but most people my age do not seem to play the long game and are not prepared to invest longterm into their career and await the fruits of their labour.

This is not a shot at guys on this thread in their mid 30s+ with kids and mortgages. I understand you can not hang around waiting for T&Cs to improve when you are in that stage of your life.

So, in light of my intial question, surely BA is still a company to aim for if you are my age?
Captain TRE approx 130k plus variable pay on PP34 or 150k on PP24. 25 years is a long time though a lot of people will be retiring before reaching that level of seniority. Alternatively you can go to Easy and earn that much after 3 to 4! No one comes to BA for the money any more.
Enzo999 is online now  
Old 29th Jul 2017, 16:34
  #3948 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: London
Posts: 148
So.... it will be interesting to see if any DEP's actually get taken on. After all that hard work to get in and then to be mucked around isn't a good feeling at all!
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Old 29th Jul 2017, 17:38
  #3949 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 661
Originally Posted by Snapper5 View Post
What's your age ?
With the rise of low cost LH I'm sure BA will have to make more cost cuts too "streamline" its operations
Pp24-pp34 ?
Long Haul low cost isn't viable in the long run. If it were then O'Leary would have already done it. And don't tell me he hasn't costed it.
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Old 1st Aug 2017, 20:51
  #3950 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dirty South
Posts: 341
Originally Posted by Officer Kite View Post
Cadet programmes have been on for yonks and as far as I'm aware there is no correlation between them and aircraft crashing ...
Air France 447 etc. Both of the pilots at the controls were Air France cadets. I could go on, but I won't bore anyone with the obvious.

we don't want FAA 1500hr madness in Europe either so things are fine as they are.
I can see why your self interest would lead you to that conclusion. However; the highest paying airline jobs in the world* are in the U.S. The average F.O. yearly income at a large low cost carrier (737) is higher than a LH Captain at British Airways (160K per annum). That doesn't include the retirement paid by the company. The minimum hiring requirement for a F.O. is 1000 hours of turbine command. As another poster mentioned, the regional airlines are starting F.O. on 45K. The company pays for a pilots training and type rating.

Given the news that well qualified DEP at BA have just received, and the lack of rest/fatigue management rules, I'm surprised to hear a pilot say that "things are fine as they are" in Europe.

* I haven't included CA positions in China, since it's not relevant.
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Old 1st Aug 2017, 23:54
  #3951 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: France
Posts: 175
IMHO. Maybe it's a flaw with my generation or maybe I wear rose tinted glasses, but most people my age do not seem to play the long game and are not prepared to invest longterm into their career and await the fruits of their labour.
The problem with this argument is pretty obvious really. I became a captain when I was 30. Running my take home pay backwards through a UK salary calculator shows that I would have to earn well over 200k a year to have the same net pay in the UK, and I work part time. Granted, I live in an expensive part of the world, but not appreciably more so than London.

I'm sure there are BA captains who earn more than me, but they'll have been in the company a long time, and almost certainly have training and/or management responsibilities (or do a hell of a lot of overtime!). The power of a (relatively) high salary when you're (relatively) young is in compounding (the same reason why sticking money in a pension is a good idea at the earliest opportunity). Financially it simply wouldn't make sense for someone like me to make the move; yes, I'd probably earn more for the last few years of my career, but I've got around two decades a of earning more. All assuming Ts & Cs remain static of course!

As others have eluded to, going to BA certainly wouldn't be a decision based on finances for many. This is all to say nothing of the other reasons to make the switch.
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 12:13
  #3952 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: six micro tesla zone
Age: 27
Posts: 367
I think I'm wrong in my assumptions that BA is still a career airline, at least in some regards. The figures ENZO provided in his last post were a bit surprising to be honest.
MaverickPrime is online now  
Old 2nd Aug 2017, 12:26
  #3953 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 42
Maverick,

I'll start by saying as many others have, money shouldn't be the driving factor for choosing this career.
However I think enzo was slightly conservative. If I'm looking at it correctly I'd say a 25 year LH trainer is on circa 164k basic plus 20k training plus flight/duty pay (pp24) & 140k basic, 20k training, again plus flight/duty pay (pp34).

Obviously it'll take a long time to get there but you asked!
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 13:09
  #3954 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 577
Not a lot in the great scheme of things, especially when paying income taxes, AA exceedence taxes and the costs involved in coming to work in the South East.
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 13:13
  #3955 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 42
Whether one considers it 'a lot' or not is subjective, I was just trying to provide accurate figures.
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 13:55
  #3956 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 577
I can appreciate that JS...just trying to add to the debate. BA has fallen behind in the pilot pay over the last 20 years or so. We work pretty hard for not much money in the great scheme of things. Sadly, mostly given away by ourselves and our reps. But that is a whole new thread.
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 15:53
  #3957 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: London
Age: 32
Posts: 28
The Assistant Pilot Recruitment Manager mentioned in the last email to those in the pool was at CTC last weekend (L3 sorry) which could confirm many of the rumours on here...............
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 16:53
  #3958 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 42
Hunter boy... Agreed!
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Old 2nd Aug 2017, 18:07
  #3959 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: somewhere in the middle
Posts: 192
Has anyone contacted BA to ask about the "white tail" rumour? They were pretty quick to stamp on the FlyBe -> BA 777 rumour a few months ago, their silence on this says a lot I think...

And on the subject of contacting BA HR, has anyone filled out the survey regarding their "Candidate Experience"?
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 09:48
  #3960 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE England
Age: 45
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by hunterboy View Post
We work pretty hard for not much money in the great scheme of things.
Hunterboy, I'm not having a dig at you as I'm sure I've skewed your comment slightly out of context but to be fair, we're not exactly on the breadline working our fingers to the bone. I suppose it's all a case of perspective. How great is the great scheme of things? Everyone else I know who earns comparable money spends most of their waking hours tied to the job, stress levels through the roof and never really having a 'day off'. Year 1 DEPs in BA are in the top 7% of earners in the country even if they do the bare minimum, top 5% if they do a couple of days' overtime every other month. Captains with 20 years' service are top 2-3%. The phone doesn't ring on days-off, and from a personal perspective I walk away from an aeroplane and don't even think about work until I turn up for my next shift.

I speak to people from outside aviation and the effort/reward ratio is staggering. Seriously, go out and see what jobs attract a STARTING salary right at the bottom of the stack of 56,500 plus over 10,000 in extras. Also see whether those jobs have a guaranteed increase every year for the rest of your career, and then more often than not an annual pay rise on top of that. Middle or Far East pay it may not be (nor even necessarily LCC I concede) but it's a damn comfortable existence that I don't see people walking away from in their droves.
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