Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Terms and Endearment
Reload this Page >

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Terms and Endearment The forum the bean counters hoped would never happen. Your news on pay, rostering, allowances, extras and negotiations where you work - scheduled, charter or contract.

BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 28th Nov 2017, 16:27
  #4101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 6
Anyone have any idea or indications within BA if this would cause enough of a requirement to reopen DEP applications?
oleostrutbasher is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2017, 22:23
  #4102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Right of the Middle
Posts: 349
As of last year, there were circa 300 people in the hold pool, and we’ve had our expiration dates extended twice, so I’d say it would be unlikely in the foreseeable future.
FoxChaRomeo is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2017, 22:43
  #4103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 84
But how many in the pool are 320 rated? And how many of those are still even interested in BA? Was any of this expansion planned when our dates were extended?

I know it's easy (and frankly, less disappointing) to be pessimistic but on the contrary I'd say this is the most positive it's looked in terms of recruitment potential for a good while. 28% unplanned expansion at Gatwick must mean good news for at least a few.
FACoff is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2017, 22:50
  #4104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 3
Valid point. Many of the people I know in the holdpool have moved on and are no longer interested in BA. Even more with no interest in shorthaul. Does anybody have reliable info about the number of DEP swimmers? I’ve heard as low as 80 and as high as 300.
World Flyer is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2017, 23:34
  #4105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,941
Anyone have any idea or indications within BA if this would cause enough of a requirement to reopen DEP applications?
That question was asked of a manager elsewhere earlier today and the answer was that as yet there was no change to the current plans. Of course that could change tomorrow and in any event it's obviously not just a case of backsides on seats, you need the equipment to use the slots.
wiggy is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 10:25
  #4106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 473
I think a few things are certain and that is, JSS will mean that the current pilot establishment will be “Optimised” or worked to fatigue and this will mean less pilots are needed. With the plans that probably means FPPs will fill the gaps by pilots leaving the 320 fleet. DEP......search me. Gatwick slots I assume were not accounted for but with 25 NEOs arriving to replace the older 319’s it is not hard to imagine those being sent to Gatwick to slot sit. Where do the pilots come from? Rated DEP one would assume in order to get it up and running quickly whilst maintaining so level of experience. If that does happen the PRIAM result go out the window. Simply put, the slots have to be used, aircraft need to fill them and pilots need to fly them. My two pence which is probably completely wrong as it’s so simple.
bex88 is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 10:55
  #4107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Right of the Middle
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by World Flyer View Post
Valid point. Many of the people I know in the holdpool have moved on and are no longer interested in BA. Even more with no interest in shorthaul. Does anybody have reliable info about the number of DEP swimmers? I’ve heard as low as 80 and as high as 300.
A friend in the company scoured the relevant Yammer threads and came up with the following numbers. So fairly reliable, based on (I think) a reasonable assumption of success rate in the sim:
  • 446 sim assessments in 2016.
  • Based on 2 out of 3 success rate, that has ~300 in the pool
  • ~30% of whom are 320 rated, so ~90 rated swimmers.
  • A handful of whom started with the company in Jan/Feb this year - someone will know the exact number.
As you mentioned, there will be a number who have moved on to VS or the Middle East or elsewhere, or who have stayed put and picked up a command, or who perhaps already have a command and have no interest in joining the short haul fleet in the RHS. Some will be Monarch guys who are now perhaps commited to elsewhere.

How many there are in one of those situations... your guess is as good as mine. Personally, I know four guys who would fit one of those criteria. And to be fair, BA won’t even know until they start making offers.
FoxChaRomeo is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 11:05
  #4108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: UK
Age: 46
Posts: 66
Don’t forget there are 777 and 747 rated pilot’s too in the pool.
CXKA is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 11:27
  #4109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Uk
Posts: 31
Quite. Many assume all recruitment if any would be for the A320 only. Answer is, we really don't know. But potentially all Airbus positions could be filled with FPPs/ white tail cadets. If (and a big if) there's a need for longhaul DEPs then these could go to Boeing rated.

Like others have mentioned I know several in the pool who have gone off to the likes of Virgin and Thomson/TUI and seem rather happy with life there.
Flyer2007 is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 11:31
  #4110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: uk
Posts: 3
Thanks for the reply FoxChaRomeo. I think your right. Any plan made to call people out of the pool if subject to massive change depending on people accepting or not. Which as you said they’ll only know when they start making the offers. Based solely on people you and I know, it does sound like a sizable chunk have moved on. But, it’s anyone’s guess.
World Flyer is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 12:30
  #4111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 291
Not involved in the pool myself so these comments are totally from an observer.

If I were "swimming" I would have every right to be quite annoyed with the situation. The selection process is not trivial and requires a large amount of preparation is required, which, one would assume would lead to a job with BA if successful. I'm glad the holding pool lifeline has been extended but if I were to "expire" I'd expect to be re-imbursed the costs incurred to attend the selection events. In other news I saw a flying pig the other day...

Hope you all get the call
average-punter is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 13:05
  #4112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Right of the Middle
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by Flyer2007 View Post
Quite. Many assume all recruitment if any would be for the A320 only. Answer is, we really don't know. But potentially all Airbus positions could be filled with FPPs/ white tail cadets. If (and a big if) there's a need for longhaul DEPs then these could go to Boeing rated.
The number of freeze waivers granted this year would suggest that the company has been proactive in filling LH vacancies by moving people off the 320 fleet early. That alone suggests to me that there will be limited if any LH DEP recruitment.

And from the hold pool update in January...
The A320 will, as always, be our primary recruiting fleet.
FoxChaRomeo is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 13:09
  #4113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Right of the Middle
Posts: 349
Originally Posted by average-punter View Post
Not involved in the pool myself so these comments are totally from an observer.

If I were "swimming" I would have every right to be quite annoyed with the situation. The selection process is not trivial and requires a large amount of preparation is required, which, one would assume would lead to a job with BA if successful.
I agree. Not an accusation at any individuals but there appears to be a touch of 'institutional arrogance'...

"we are British Airways, so people will wait. We've had a better idea and can save some cash by only employing cadets, but if that doesn't work out, we can still go back to the DEP hold pool cos people still want to work for us"
FoxChaRomeo is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 23:29
  #4114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 291
Absolutely. I think this time round they may be quite surprised.
average-punter is offline  
Old 29th Nov 2017, 23:50
  #4115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 370
Posts: 94
I bet they won’t be surprised 🙄
WonderBus is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 00:36
  #4116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 182
You'll be joining at 4100+.

In 2033 you'll be 3100 on present predictions.

SH LHS is about 2400, LH 1550 ish.

Do the maths.
blimey is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 09:26
  #4117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 866
Blimey, those figures are assuming an attrition rate of 66 pilots a year. Now that the retirements have gone back to normal I’ve gone up 183 places in 18 months. That’s almost double your figures so somebody isn’t doing the maths correctly.

Your figures would mean a new joiner of the age of 25 would only barely (by a year or so) achieve a long haul command by the end of their 40 years service!

Last edited by RexBanner; 30th Nov 2017 at 09:40.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 10:05
  #4118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,679
The demographics of the retirement rate across all western economies is far in excess of any historical reference point; the data simply does not exist.

Given the impact on asset markets, health care provision and even considerations of tax I would treat any prediction of advancement based on any historical metric to be of limited value.

Governments the world over are struggling with an aging workforce they are simply concerned with tax and spend, not service provision. On all western economies measures they all begin a great stagnation for at least a decade commencing now and continuing country after country.
Rated De is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 11:01
  #4119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: pluto
Posts: 182
Agreed, Gents, the goalposts do move. But to those who aren't anointed, it's not the end of the world.
blimey is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2017, 11:11
  #4120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 688
Rex,
Blimey’s figures for seniority are based on the seniority predictor spreadsheet that was created a year or so ago. It takes everyone’s age into account, but assumes retirement at age 65. It also doesn’t take standard attrition due to loss of licence etc. into account. Some years have significantly higher rates of retirement than others, but it only goes up as far as 2033. You cannot just extrapolate figures beyond 2033 to work out seniority in later years in the way you have done, because BA has some very definite age demographic variations at various seniority positions.
GS-Alpha is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.