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BA Direct Entry Pilot.

Old 13th Jun 2017, 07:06
  #3701 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 195
Originally Posted by Phil.Capron View Post
Ditching Bidline for a preference system is stupid. I would be interested to know the rational behind any decision to do that.
The rationale was a dipsh*t membership, a convincing BACC and very close ballot results.
It's only the Roster production side. Current Ops processes remain as before. So roster stability still in place.
Right Engine is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2017, 07:42
  #3702 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 341
It's not a preference system.
jb5000 is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2017, 07:57
  #3703 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 866
Jb5000, yes it is. Are we going to be able to see each individual line we are bidding for pre roster release a la Stage 1 of Bidline? The answer is no. So basically JSS is the equivalent of being on a Blind line expressing preferences at Stage 2.
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Old 13th Jun 2017, 11:26
  #3704 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 341
No it's not. You are bidding for specific trips, types of trip and days off.

The system generates many (hundreds of thousands..) of lines that satisfy your criteria and when those junior to you have bid it whittles down your lines until you have one possibility remaining at which point it locks in.

If one bid group can't be satisfied it then moves further down your bid groups until one can be so it's possible to rank your bids in decreasing importance.

It's not a preference system at all. As you might have guessed, I think it'll be way better.
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Old 13th Jun 2017, 12:50
  #3705 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,083
That's how preference bidding systems work. You put your top preference in, if you can't get it, it gives you your next preference, and so on.
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Old 13th Jun 2017, 12:55
  #3706 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 341
By that definition stage 1 of current bidline is a preference system then.
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Old 13th Jun 2017, 15:17
  #3707 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,083
With the exception that today you can see entire the line of work you want. With this new system you can't. No seeded blind lines either. It also means no one will know what they are doing until 2 weeks before the start of the month, quite different to today. The rules driving the preferences are hidden and given BACCs track record the control of those will cede to the company over the coming years. It all favours BA.

For those who know Carmen, it's a storm heading our way.
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Old 13th Jun 2017, 16:37
  #3708 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 153
EK Profits

Originally Posted by Craggenmore View Post
Correct - EK's profit nosedived from 7.7 billion last year to 2.5 Billion this year.

This woeful profit of 2.5 Billion is still 1 Billion more than IAG's. Not bad for a single airline against IAG's many airlines.

Good luck with the applications everybody.
I understand EK profits were just over US$300m from the airline business.


Emirates airline profits plunge 82.5% in past year | UAE News | Al Jazeera
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 06:45
  #3709 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: London
Posts: 125
Originally Posted by no sponsor View Post
It also means no one will know what they are doing until 2 weeks before the start of the month
While personally I'm disappointed to see the end of bidline, I believe the above point to be incorrect. I'll wait for someone who has the actual documents to hand to confirm this but I'm pretty sure one of the benefits of JSS was final rosters published earlier than is the case today.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 07:04
  #3710 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,985
I'm pretty sure one of the benefits of JSS was final rosters published earlier than is the case today..
As in final final rosters? I think that's the theory, but I wonder if the latest ballot result has put a hole in that for the shorthaulers?

All a far far cry from the days of having the luck/seniority to pick up and see your "full" tripline 4 weeks plus ahead of the month in question, but OTOH no doubt an improvement for Blindline holders who got their rosters relatively at the last minute... so as it stands at the moment definitely a benefit for some.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 08:14
  #3711 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Button Moon
Posts: 314
Originally Posted by no sponsor View Post
With the exception that today you can see entire the line of work you want. With this new system you can't. No seeded blind lines either. It also means no one will know what they are doing until 2 weeks before the start of the month, quite different to today.
So just as it is for those of us on spending our lives on Blind Lines then! Not so different for many of us.

We're doing Reserve every other month on my fleet and get to find out what we're doing at 8pm the night before for half the year. I voted to keep Bidline and FPA (the loss of which, in combination with becoming a short haul only fleet last year, has been financially devastating) but here we are, democracy has spoken. Apparently.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 08:26
  #3712 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,083
You might remember the EASA alleviation obtained for roster publication by BA...
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 14:02
  #3713 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 341
20 days before the end of the month is the roster production deadline. It's all in the paperwork we've been sent.

(Plus probably 2 days extra for shorthaul due to the bmi bubble vote this week)
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 15:05
  #3714 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 473
It's blind lines. It will be seen to that those at the bottom get the rubbish and work every weekend. The biggest problem with British Airways is the pilots themselves
bex88 is offline  
Old 14th Jun 2017, 18:44
  #3715 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Person
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,269
No later than 20 days for rosters under JSS. bex88, why do you assume that all of us want weekends off? What about commuters, who want to go to ACC, LOS etc so they can back-to-back? They would be rubbish trips for me.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 19:34
  #3716 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London
Posts: 238
I would quite like a weekend off! Most senior bidders seem to alway take the weekends on blind lines you are almost guarnetied to work weekends, that's if your not on reserve which seems to happen every other month.
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Old 14th Jun 2017, 20:38
  #3717 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Uk
Age: 39
Posts: 473
Why do I say that? In the last year I worked all but two weekends excluding leave and DFW. Look at the lines and you will easily see the pattern. Seniority is a simple system that works but it should not be used for rostering when it directly effects your quality of life so drastically. The disparity is huge and when there is stagnation or if your one of the ex BMI guys then your junior for a long time......for some it's permanent
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 13:43
  #3718 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,985
Fast forward to 2017 and we now have an ever increasing population of female pilots, as well as a majority of dads who want to be as involved as possible with raising their children. To have them work most weekends and be on reserve every other month on short haul, so that those at the top can have it all, seems extreme.
Warning: Controversial Post...!!

I suffered the above, both on joining (Blindlines for >> 5 years, if it's Sunday it must be Harare...) , and again when I changed seats so I understand where you coming from..I also do agree that someone shouldn't be stuck on weekends for seemingly perpetuity....but...(here we go, takes deep breath) I have to point out that the argument that often gets rolled to counter the "unfair" accusation is that the longer served pilots ( male and female) have already done their chunk of weekends/ frequent reserves, both as junior P2s and for some again as junior P1s... Equalising weekend working now could be seen as being unfair to them.

I think some would be willing to "take one for the team" to some extent in the interests of improving the fairness factor because we do recognise times have changed, but any attempts to completely equalise weekend working with no recognition for the weekends the more senior have already worked/"banked" over their careers is going to encounter push back. It's certainly going to be interesting to see how BALPA/BA start manipulating the inhibitors tied to that aspect of bidding when JSS arrives

IMHO I'd also say the ability to completely avoid weekend working is sometimes overestimated, it's actually not that easy to do it, even when on page One...but I'd agree it can be ***** annoying if you do fly with one of the "I don't work weekends" brigade...

Anyhow if you think it's bad now someone will probably be along any minute to talk about how lucky we are now and tell horror stories about the days when the junior pilots were on permanent reserve....( no, even I'm not that old )

Tin hat on, retires to safe distance....

Last edited by wiggy; 15th Jun 2017 at 15:28.
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Old 15th Jun 2017, 15:18
  #3719 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 53
On long haul it can be hard to avoide working weekends even with decent seniority. The length of trips is the factor:

5 days trips, only a trip starting on Monday has a clear weekend, the other 6 days impact the weekend, so only 1/7th of 5 day trips have a clear weekend.

For 4 day trips its 2/7ths that have a clear weekend.

For 3 day trips its 3/7ths..... but... if you did a Mon-Wed trip, its reasonably likely that you'll then be doing another trip starting on Saturday or Sunday thereby impacting that weekend.

Believe me, seniority does not mean you get all your weekends off! If someone says they don't work weekends, they must be top 2-3% of seniority, or part time, or going sick, or exagerating, or very very very lucky.
Dave is offline  
Old 15th Jun 2017, 15:27
  #3720 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,985
If someone says they don't work weekends, they must be top 2-3% of seniority, or part time, or going sick, or exagerating, or very very very lucky.
I'd agree Dave, as you point out you've only got to look at tripline construction to see how hard it is to consistently avoid weekends, for all the reasons you mention.
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