British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Pornpants1
Q1 I don't know. According to BA the rate of growth of New Fleet will depend on the rate at which they transfer work plus the rate of business growth.
Q2. Yes I'm afraid I do. This proposal offers an existing ww main crew member his basic wage (£17,000) plus allowances plus £8,000 in monthly flying pay per year.
So, to put him into Careerlink for 3 months costs BA £4,200.(£1,400 basic x 3)
Giving his work to New Fleet in order to do that costs £15,000 to £17,000 (basic of £11,000 plus hourly flying pay). That is BA's estimated cost of main crew on New Fleet.
So, even in the most expensive point of the process (the first 3 months) and ignoring all the more difficult to calculate sums about productivity and flexibility, it still saves money.
Q4. I have been afraid of that being true since day one, that BA never intended to find any negotiated settlement.
Q5. Not all of us. I try very hard to read every proposal (more than once) and to listen to other perspectives. Until the current atmosphere, where I became afraid to talk about work issues at work, I used to discuss it with anyone that seemed interested.
Q1 I don't know. According to BA the rate of growth of New Fleet will depend on the rate at which they transfer work plus the rate of business growth.
Q2. Yes I'm afraid I do. This proposal offers an existing ww main crew member his basic wage (£17,000) plus allowances plus £8,000 in monthly flying pay per year.
So, to put him into Careerlink for 3 months costs BA £4,200.(£1,400 basic x 3)
Giving his work to New Fleet in order to do that costs £15,000 to £17,000 (basic of £11,000 plus hourly flying pay). That is BA's estimated cost of main crew on New Fleet.
So, even in the most expensive point of the process (the first 3 months) and ignoring all the more difficult to calculate sums about productivity and flexibility, it still saves money.
Q4. I have been afraid of that being true since day one, that BA never intended to find any negotiated settlement.
Q5. Not all of us. I try very hard to read every proposal (more than once) and to listen to other perspectives. Until the current atmosphere, where I became afraid to talk about work issues at work, I used to discuss it with anyone that seemed interested.
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Reargunner - a question for you. Do you think the redeployment agreement, as it currently stands, is fit for purpose, given that it can (and has been) used by redeployed cabin crew who have no intention of ever flying for BA again to sit at home on basic pay for two years before taking VR.
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Thank you for some of you replies, the don't knows and the what ifs are the worrying part, I believe that had BASSA sat around the table like adults and negotiated, then alot of those "what ifs" could have been ironed out.
I note you took a basic cabin crew members pay for illustration rather than a Purser £26K-£34K or a CSDs max £43K, this would cost BA quite a significant amount more
I don't believe the BASSA hype and do not think BA would utilise the "career link" for cabin crew in the arrangement you or BASSA suggest.
As someone has said in an earlier post BASSA are using the "what ifs" to put the fear into Cabin Crew, at point some crew are going to have to take a step back and either try and put some faith in their employer or move on.
Incidentally it has taken some 12 years for "new contract" crew to outnumber their peers in MPE
I note you took a basic cabin crew members pay for illustration rather than a Purser £26K-£34K or a CSDs max £43K, this would cost BA quite a significant amount more
I don't believe the BASSA hype and do not think BA would utilise the "career link" for cabin crew in the arrangement you or BASSA suggest.
As someone has said in an earlier post BASSA are using the "what ifs" to put the fear into Cabin Crew, at point some crew are going to have to take a step back and either try and put some faith in their employer or move on.
Incidentally it has taken some 12 years for "new contract" crew to outnumber their peers in MPE
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HiFlyer
Yes this offer says they will put the crew on and recruit into New Fleet the equivalent numbers...on the same page as it says they will continue and give out part-time to all the crew on the existing list.
I'm saying that the return of the 184 does not HAVE to be made up by recruitment it can be made up by a simple reduction in part time offers, but the company chooses this route.
As I said, the reference to accepting the conclusions of the EPC within 4 weeks is on page 6. I'm sure you have read it and if you think the decision to change those elements of redeployment, grievance, disciplinary and pension protection of all contracts has changed from last year, then BA have opened a Q&A phone line, where I'm sure they will be able to tell us.
4486 and Hand S. Yes there is a difference in location. The way you express the BALPA objection to Open Skies is a tiny bit confusing to those of us who don't talk about issues that only affect pilots very often. I understood that they wanted all the new pilots inside the existing seniority list (making these new pilots part of mainline) to ensure they became, in effect, an extension to the existing pilot community, rather than a potential future threat.
They weren't REALLY saying that pilots already working for BA would transfer to OS and their much lower T&C...they were saying that the new recruits can come in on the low T&C, but they should be part of the existing career pathway.
When that became unachievable, because of some manipulation of existing laws, they settled for ammending the pilots MOA scope agreement to strengthen the protection of London BA pilots against work being transfered.
Wobbly, I'm not either...an employment laywer...I serve tea and coffee! But, I think the I probably used the word redundant in the wrong context...when you are placed in a redeployment process, it isn't classed as redundancy, I don't think. I guess that's the whole point.
Finally, 4486 the productivity & pay deal for current cabin crew amounts to 14% of our department budget and about 30-40% of the total airline savings to be made. That is not small and New Fleet savings are in addition to that.
I'm afraid I have to go now. Out of time as always! I'm happy to discuss my opinion, but it gets very hard to reply to so many posts that seem to be directed to me. If I can I will come back and try again.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Yes this offer says they will put the crew on and recruit into New Fleet the equivalent numbers...on the same page as it says they will continue and give out part-time to all the crew on the existing list.
I'm saying that the return of the 184 does not HAVE to be made up by recruitment it can be made up by a simple reduction in part time offers, but the company chooses this route.
As I said, the reference to accepting the conclusions of the EPC within 4 weeks is on page 6. I'm sure you have read it and if you think the decision to change those elements of redeployment, grievance, disciplinary and pension protection of all contracts has changed from last year, then BA have opened a Q&A phone line, where I'm sure they will be able to tell us.
4486 and Hand S. Yes there is a difference in location. The way you express the BALPA objection to Open Skies is a tiny bit confusing to those of us who don't talk about issues that only affect pilots very often. I understood that they wanted all the new pilots inside the existing seniority list (making these new pilots part of mainline) to ensure they became, in effect, an extension to the existing pilot community, rather than a potential future threat.
They weren't REALLY saying that pilots already working for BA would transfer to OS and their much lower T&C...they were saying that the new recruits can come in on the low T&C, but they should be part of the existing career pathway.
When that became unachievable, because of some manipulation of existing laws, they settled for ammending the pilots MOA scope agreement to strengthen the protection of London BA pilots against work being transfered.
Wobbly, I'm not either...an employment laywer...I serve tea and coffee! But, I think the I probably used the word redundant in the wrong context...when you are placed in a redeployment process, it isn't classed as redundancy, I don't think. I guess that's the whole point.
Finally, 4486 the productivity & pay deal for current cabin crew amounts to 14% of our department budget and about 30-40% of the total airline savings to be made. That is not small and New Fleet savings are in addition to that.
I'm afraid I have to go now. Out of time as always! I'm happy to discuss my opinion, but it gets very hard to reply to so many posts that seem to be directed to me. If I can I will come back and try again.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
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Reargunner
I'm afraid I have to go now. Out of time as always! I'm happy to discuss my opinion, but it gets very hard to reply to so many posts that seem to be directed to me. If I can I will come back and try again.
and do come back, its a pity some other cabin crew don't share your demeanour
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Reargunner
Excellent posts. Much appreciated to get a cohesive view from the other side of the fence.
However, can i just highlight the following:
CC make up 30-40% of the employer group, so it seems fair to me for IFCE savings to be that percentage of the total airline savings ?
The dept i work in probably shaved 15-20% off its budget last year. A lot through natural wastage (VR), granted, and voluntary reduced working hours/BRS, but it still amounts to that figure. Seems 10-15% is about the going rate i would have thought.
However, can i just highlight the following:
Finally, 4486 the productivity & pay deal for current cabin crew amounts to 14% of our department budget and about 30-40% of the total airline savings to be made. That is not small and New Fleet savings are in addition to that.
The dept i work in probably shaved 15-20% off its budget last year. A lot through natural wastage (VR), granted, and voluntary reduced working hours/BRS, but it still amounts to that figure. Seems 10-15% is about the going rate i would have thought.
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Reargunner
Wobbler...do I think I will get a better deal by striking? Do you think I will get a worse one?
As far as I can see, accepting this deal means I will keep my existing T&C until New Fleet is fully operational then I will lose all of it. I will be told there is no work for my existing job and put into Careerlink.
The redeployment agreement I will have just accepted gives me 3 months on full basic to find a new vacancy. Then 3 further months on 75% of that basic and then a further 3 months on 50% etc. So, if New Fleet is still growing and recruiting I can apply for a job there or leave.
If I strike, and it is not supported by a lot of cabin crew, then in June the company can terminate all cabin crew contracts and offer new ones with 90 days notice.
As far as I can see, there is very little between the two threats to my livelihood.
Reargunner, given what you say above, I guess it's down to which possibility you personally find most likely to happen.
Nothing in life comes with a guarantee and sometimes you have to fight the battles as they happen, rather than fight them based on what MIGHT theoretically happen.
For me, given my experience over 28 years of BASSA's conspiracy theory/scaremongering style of drumming up support and subsequent proof of it all being a lot of twaddle, the first scenario seems less likely than the second.
However I can't be absolutely 100% sure. What I can be sure of is, there's unlikely to be a better deal, and BASSA have had their chance to nail down the detail over the last year or so, but they chose to squabble with Amicus, fight the wrong fights, tell porkies and generally act unprofessionally, so I'm afraid I'm just gonna have to take a chance.
Wobbler...do I think I will get a better deal by striking? Do you think I will get a worse one?
As far as I can see, accepting this deal means I will keep my existing T&C until New Fleet is fully operational then I will lose all of it. I will be told there is no work for my existing job and put into Careerlink.
The redeployment agreement I will have just accepted gives me 3 months on full basic to find a new vacancy. Then 3 further months on 75% of that basic and then a further 3 months on 50% etc. So, if New Fleet is still growing and recruiting I can apply for a job there or leave.
If I strike, and it is not supported by a lot of cabin crew, then in June the company can terminate all cabin crew contracts and offer new ones with 90 days notice.
As far as I can see, there is very little between the two threats to my livelihood.
Reargunner, given what you say above, I guess it's down to which possibility you personally find most likely to happen.
Nothing in life comes with a guarantee and sometimes you have to fight the battles as they happen, rather than fight them based on what MIGHT theoretically happen.
For me, given my experience over 28 years of BASSA's conspiracy theory/scaremongering style of drumming up support and subsequent proof of it all being a lot of twaddle, the first scenario seems less likely than the second.
However I can't be absolutely 100% sure. What I can be sure of is, there's unlikely to be a better deal, and BASSA have had their chance to nail down the detail over the last year or so, but they chose to squabble with Amicus, fight the wrong fights, tell porkies and generally act unprofessionally, so I'm afraid I'm just gonna have to take a chance.
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Way Forward Agreement - 6 April 2010
For some reason, people are debating debating an offer they have not read. So, here it is.
The Way Forward – British Airways formal offer to Unite
This formal offer is made by British Airways in a genuine attempt to resolve
the dispute in the best interests of our customers and our cabin crew.
We all agree that the airline needs to make permanent structural change to its
cost base to ensure its long-term survival. Both parties acknowledge that the
company will only be able to afford this agreement if there is a stable industrial
environment, without any further revenue loss or reputational damage as a
result of industrial unrest.
In doing so, the airline continues to recognise the professionalism and skill of
its cabin crew.
Pay
Increments
Incremental pay rises will continue to be applied.
Fixed Monthly Travel Payment
A new fixed monthly payment will be introduced which will be increased in line
with future pay awards.
Basic Pay
The company has offered a two year pay deal, effective from 1/2/2011 as
follows:
• Year one 2011/12 the company will increase base pay based on
December 2010 RPI and capped at the average of the independent
forecasts for Q4 2010 published by HM Treasury in April 2010
• Year two 2012/13 the company will increase base pay based on
December 2011 RPI and capped at the average of the independent
forecasts for Q4 2011 published by HM Treasury in April 2010
The next pay review will be effective from February 2013
Complements
The company will re-introduce a level of complement equivalent to a total of
184 full time crew into Eurofleet and Worldwide, the distribution of which will
be determined by the company. Understandably any new recruitment to
facilitate complement changes will be into the new fleet.
The level of flying remaining in Worldwide and Eurofleet will be determined by
the number of flights which can be covered with existing crew and
complement levels.
To enable the re-introduction of complements, further savings have been
jointly identified;
• Removal of early day report rule from Worldwide
• Removal of telephone allowance from Worldwide and Eurofleet
• Removal of language allowance from all fleets
• Non flying variable pay maintained at current levels, reviewed Feb 2011
• Crew meals aligned to world traveller specification
• Overseas meal allowances maintained at current levels, reviewed Feb 2011
Complements remain non-contractual.
New fleet
There will be a separate mixed flying fleet for new crew, with separate terms
and conditions and bargaining rights. There will be a separate negotiating body
for the new fleet, which will not discuss the terms and conditions of current
crew.
Assurances for current crew
Crew on existing fleets will have the following protections;
• Terms and conditions for current crew – A fundamental principle of this
offer is that crew will have a firm commitment from British Airways in
respect to their terms of employment. Current crew are assured that their
existing contractual terms will be maintained for the future, unless
amended through the agreed NSP negotiating procedures.
• Part-time – The company will continue to honour commitments to make
part-time offers to all crew on existing lists by March 2011. The offer will
be on existing fleets, terms and conditions. Future opportunities will
continue to be available.
• Access to route network – It is the company’s intention to ensure a fair and
transparent distribution of routes to all fleets, based on commercial need,
which will be discussed with Unite. The distribution will be reviewed at the
end of each season and will be considered as part of the broader TUC
review process after twelve months. Clarification of route access is
contained in a side letter to Unite.
• Monthly travel payment – To provide increased security of earnings, both
parties have agreed to introduce a monthly travel payment that
consolidates existing variable payments for Heathrow fleets. The payment
will be based on the average of the 2008 schedule (see appendix A). The
company will adjust the monthly travel payment each year, in line with base
pay.
• Allowances to be paid – Meal allowances, daily overseas and a number of
other allowances will continue to be paid see Appendix A.
• Access to aircraft type – It is the company’s intention to deploy new
aircraft based on commercial need across existing and new fleets. New
aircraft will be introduced on a fair and transparent basis across all the
company’s fleets. Existing crew terms, conditions and fleet agreements will
apply when new aircraft are operated on existing fleets. As new aircraft are
introduced across all of the company’s fleets, crew will be trained in order
to receive the necessary licenses as required by regulation.
• Career structure and opportunities for current crew – The career structure
for current crew within current fleets will continue on the basis of existing
practice, unless amended through the agreed NSP negotiating procedures.
The company confirm that where there are opportunities available, existing
crew will be promoted on existing terms and conditions on current fleets.
• Honouring current and future agreements – Both parties acknowledge the
importance of honouring agreements and are committed to working
together to create a climate of effective industrial relations. The best way
of guaranteeing this is through the successful completion of the industrial
relations review, which will include the appropriate application of cabin
crew agreements.
• Ability to transfer fleet/base on current terms and conditions – As with the
current process, there is no guarantee of achieving a transfer. However,
the company has committed to continue with the current practice of
transfers at Heathrow between Eurofleet and Worldwide, and to find a
mechanism to aid limited transfers from Gatwick under current terms and
conditions.
All current crew will have the opportunity to apply for all roles on the new
fleet if they choose. This will provide promotion opportunities for many
current crew. All crew joining the new fleet will have separate terms and
conditions. The company will recognise Unite for the purposes of bargaining
in the new fleet.
Opportunities for Gatwick crew
It is accepted that restrictions within the Gatwick Fleet memorandum of
agreement limit the long haul route network. It is agreed that discussions will
be held with a view to removing these restrictions to provide the best
opportunities for growth in the long haul network at Gatwick, for the benefit of
the business and our people.
Disruption agreement
In order to minimise the impact of disruption to our customers and our crew,
the following points will remain, or be incorporated into the Disruption
Agreement
• The definition of disruption remains unchanged
• The double night will be removed for Worldwide diverted inbound
services to anywhere in the UK and Europe, and a minimum of 15 hours
off-duty will be achieved if the aircraft is unable to continue to its
original destination
• When disruption takes place the IFCE management team will advise
duty representatives and crew colleagues when and how the disruption
agreement has been applied. A review will take place of any disruption
at the next joint meeting
Working together
The parties are committed to beginning the process of restoring and
improving relationships at all levels. With this in mind, it is important that there
is no victimisation arising from the dispute and both parties will work to ensure
that any issues are settled in a mature and professional way. Where there are
disciplinary or grievance cases, the intention is that these will be resolved
quickly. Where behaviour is found to be serious, any resulting action will be
measured and proportionate.
For the benefit of our crew, customers and business and in support of our
objective of making IFCE a great place to work, the company is keen to
develop a positive working relationship with the trade union to enable
effective industrial relations. The delivery of this agreement is dependent on a
radical change to our working relationships. In order to achieve the necessary
change a third party organisation will be engaged to support a fundamental
review of the company and cabin crew trade union relationships.
Future IR framework
It is acknowledged that the existing arrangements for industrial relations for
cabin crew need to be reviewed and made fit for purpose, for both the
company and the union in the 21 st century.
The union will re-engage with the existing facilities agreement. Negotiations
will take place between the company and the union nationally, with a view to
reaching a mutually agreeable framework within 12 weeks of completing this
agreement. The union have noted the company’s intent as outlined in the
covering letter of 6 April 2010 from Willie Walsh.
The company proposes the introduction of a broader business consultative
approach across British Airways, to engage our representatives and our
managers in a wider debate about our business performance and needs of our
customers. An example of items for discussion at the forum is the allocation
of routes. Prior to the start of each season the company will discuss the
allocation of routes with Unite.
Both parties are firmly committed to the effective application of company
procedures, which are currently the subject of negotiations in the Employment
Policy Committee and BA Forum.
Policy
Changes to corporate policies that apply to all colleagues across the company
and covered at the BA Forum and EPC have been subject to discussion. It is
the intention to conclude these discussions within one month of completing
this offer.
Summary
This formal offer maintains the contractual rights of cabin crew at their current
level. The offer does not reduce or extend them from where they are today.
Both parties recognise the assistance the TUC has given in securing this
agreement. The application of this agreement will be reviewed annually with
the TUC, at twelve, twenty-four and thirty-six months from the date the
agreement is signed.
Appendix A
Fixed Monthly Travel Payment
We have provided protection for security of earnings, having agreed a new
monthly travel payment, that consolidates existing variable payments for
Heathrow fleets. The payment will be based on the average of the 2008
schedule. The company will adjust the monthly travel payment each year, in
line with base pay.
How much will the payment be
The amounts have been calculated by fleet and grade and are as follows for a
full-time crew member. These rates are based on the 2008 schedule.
FLEET GRADE ANNUAL EQUIVALENT
Worldwide CSD £9,676
Worldwide Purser £9,258
Worldwide Main crew £8,085
Eurofleet CSD £2,470
Eurofleet Purser £2,470
Eurofleet Main crew £2,266
Part time crew will receive a pro-rata amount of the above monthly sums. If
part time crew are absent, the daily deduction rates will not be pro-rated as
the sum deducted relates to a single working day.
Fixed Monthly Travel Payment
This is a fixed payment to be paid on a monthly basis via 12 equal instalments
and will replace specified variable travel allowances currently earned by crew
(see below for specific details). The objective is to provide greater stability of
earnings for current crew in Heathrow Worldwide and Eurofleet to mitigate the
concerns over pace and mix of work transfer to separate new fleet.
Included within the Fixed Monthly Travel Payment
The Fixed Monthly Travel Payment will replace the variable allowances below,
which will cease to be paid:
Worldwide Eurofleet
Long Range Premiums (LRP)/Box Payment Long Day Payments (LDP)
Back-to-Back Payment (B2B) Excess Time Premium (ETP)
Destination Payment (DES) Base Early Report Payment (BER)
Excess Time Premium (ETP)
The following categories of allowance will continue to be paid in the same way
as they are today and are not included within scope of the Fixed Monthly
Travel payment:
Meal Allowances Daily Overseas Allowance (DOA)
Nightly Incidental Allowance (NIA) Time Away Allowance (TAA)
Line Trainer Payments Willing to work
Rest Day Working
Exceptional Payments from WW Disruption Agreement (One-Down and Zone
Closure)
Deductions
As this is intended to directly replace current variable flying allowances, daily
deductions at the normal rate for your fleet will be made to cover periods of
non-flying duties from the following list:
Sickness Unpaid Leave
Trade Union Activities Grounded Maternity (**)
Line Trainer Duties (*)
(*) Current Line Trainer payments will continue to apply
(**) Current Grounded Maternity Allowance payments will continue to be
made
This formal offer is made by British Airways in a genuine attempt to resolve
the dispute in the best interests of our customers and our cabin crew.
We all agree that the airline needs to make permanent structural change to its
cost base to ensure its long-term survival. Both parties acknowledge that the
company will only be able to afford this agreement if there is a stable industrial
environment, without any further revenue loss or reputational damage as a
result of industrial unrest.
In doing so, the airline continues to recognise the professionalism and skill of
its cabin crew.
Pay
Increments
Incremental pay rises will continue to be applied.
Fixed Monthly Travel Payment
A new fixed monthly payment will be introduced which will be increased in line
with future pay awards.
Basic Pay
The company has offered a two year pay deal, effective from 1/2/2011 as
follows:
• Year one 2011/12 the company will increase base pay based on
December 2010 RPI and capped at the average of the independent
forecasts for Q4 2010 published by HM Treasury in April 2010
• Year two 2012/13 the company will increase base pay based on
December 2011 RPI and capped at the average of the independent
forecasts for Q4 2011 published by HM Treasury in April 2010
The next pay review will be effective from February 2013
Complements
The company will re-introduce a level of complement equivalent to a total of
184 full time crew into Eurofleet and Worldwide, the distribution of which will
be determined by the company. Understandably any new recruitment to
facilitate complement changes will be into the new fleet.
The level of flying remaining in Worldwide and Eurofleet will be determined by
the number of flights which can be covered with existing crew and
complement levels.
To enable the re-introduction of complements, further savings have been
jointly identified;
• Removal of early day report rule from Worldwide
• Removal of telephone allowance from Worldwide and Eurofleet
• Removal of language allowance from all fleets
• Non flying variable pay maintained at current levels, reviewed Feb 2011
• Crew meals aligned to world traveller specification
• Overseas meal allowances maintained at current levels, reviewed Feb 2011
Complements remain non-contractual.
New fleet
There will be a separate mixed flying fleet for new crew, with separate terms
and conditions and bargaining rights. There will be a separate negotiating body
for the new fleet, which will not discuss the terms and conditions of current
crew.
Assurances for current crew
Crew on existing fleets will have the following protections;
• Terms and conditions for current crew – A fundamental principle of this
offer is that crew will have a firm commitment from British Airways in
respect to their terms of employment. Current crew are assured that their
existing contractual terms will be maintained for the future, unless
amended through the agreed NSP negotiating procedures.
• Part-time – The company will continue to honour commitments to make
part-time offers to all crew on existing lists by March 2011. The offer will
be on existing fleets, terms and conditions. Future opportunities will
continue to be available.
• Access to route network – It is the company’s intention to ensure a fair and
transparent distribution of routes to all fleets, based on commercial need,
which will be discussed with Unite. The distribution will be reviewed at the
end of each season and will be considered as part of the broader TUC
review process after twelve months. Clarification of route access is
contained in a side letter to Unite.
• Monthly travel payment – To provide increased security of earnings, both
parties have agreed to introduce a monthly travel payment that
consolidates existing variable payments for Heathrow fleets. The payment
will be based on the average of the 2008 schedule (see appendix A). The
company will adjust the monthly travel payment each year, in line with base
pay.
• Allowances to be paid – Meal allowances, daily overseas and a number of
other allowances will continue to be paid see Appendix A.
• Access to aircraft type – It is the company’s intention to deploy new
aircraft based on commercial need across existing and new fleets. New
aircraft will be introduced on a fair and transparent basis across all the
company’s fleets. Existing crew terms, conditions and fleet agreements will
apply when new aircraft are operated on existing fleets. As new aircraft are
introduced across all of the company’s fleets, crew will be trained in order
to receive the necessary licenses as required by regulation.
• Career structure and opportunities for current crew – The career structure
for current crew within current fleets will continue on the basis of existing
practice, unless amended through the agreed NSP negotiating procedures.
The company confirm that where there are opportunities available, existing
crew will be promoted on existing terms and conditions on current fleets.
• Honouring current and future agreements – Both parties acknowledge the
importance of honouring agreements and are committed to working
together to create a climate of effective industrial relations. The best way
of guaranteeing this is through the successful completion of the industrial
relations review, which will include the appropriate application of cabin
crew agreements.
• Ability to transfer fleet/base on current terms and conditions – As with the
current process, there is no guarantee of achieving a transfer. However,
the company has committed to continue with the current practice of
transfers at Heathrow between Eurofleet and Worldwide, and to find a
mechanism to aid limited transfers from Gatwick under current terms and
conditions.
All current crew will have the opportunity to apply for all roles on the new
fleet if they choose. This will provide promotion opportunities for many
current crew. All crew joining the new fleet will have separate terms and
conditions. The company will recognise Unite for the purposes of bargaining
in the new fleet.
Opportunities for Gatwick crew
It is accepted that restrictions within the Gatwick Fleet memorandum of
agreement limit the long haul route network. It is agreed that discussions will
be held with a view to removing these restrictions to provide the best
opportunities for growth in the long haul network at Gatwick, for the benefit of
the business and our people.
Disruption agreement
In order to minimise the impact of disruption to our customers and our crew,
the following points will remain, or be incorporated into the Disruption
Agreement
• The definition of disruption remains unchanged
• The double night will be removed for Worldwide diverted inbound
services to anywhere in the UK and Europe, and a minimum of 15 hours
off-duty will be achieved if the aircraft is unable to continue to its
original destination
• When disruption takes place the IFCE management team will advise
duty representatives and crew colleagues when and how the disruption
agreement has been applied. A review will take place of any disruption
at the next joint meeting
Working together
The parties are committed to beginning the process of restoring and
improving relationships at all levels. With this in mind, it is important that there
is no victimisation arising from the dispute and both parties will work to ensure
that any issues are settled in a mature and professional way. Where there are
disciplinary or grievance cases, the intention is that these will be resolved
quickly. Where behaviour is found to be serious, any resulting action will be
measured and proportionate.
For the benefit of our crew, customers and business and in support of our
objective of making IFCE a great place to work, the company is keen to
develop a positive working relationship with the trade union to enable
effective industrial relations. The delivery of this agreement is dependent on a
radical change to our working relationships. In order to achieve the necessary
change a third party organisation will be engaged to support a fundamental
review of the company and cabin crew trade union relationships.
Future IR framework
It is acknowledged that the existing arrangements for industrial relations for
cabin crew need to be reviewed and made fit for purpose, for both the
company and the union in the 21 st century.
The union will re-engage with the existing facilities agreement. Negotiations
will take place between the company and the union nationally, with a view to
reaching a mutually agreeable framework within 12 weeks of completing this
agreement. The union have noted the company’s intent as outlined in the
covering letter of 6 April 2010 from Willie Walsh.
The company proposes the introduction of a broader business consultative
approach across British Airways, to engage our representatives and our
managers in a wider debate about our business performance and needs of our
customers. An example of items for discussion at the forum is the allocation
of routes. Prior to the start of each season the company will discuss the
allocation of routes with Unite.
Both parties are firmly committed to the effective application of company
procedures, which are currently the subject of negotiations in the Employment
Policy Committee and BA Forum.
Policy
Changes to corporate policies that apply to all colleagues across the company
and covered at the BA Forum and EPC have been subject to discussion. It is
the intention to conclude these discussions within one month of completing
this offer.
Summary
This formal offer maintains the contractual rights of cabin crew at their current
level. The offer does not reduce or extend them from where they are today.
Both parties recognise the assistance the TUC has given in securing this
agreement. The application of this agreement will be reviewed annually with
the TUC, at twelve, twenty-four and thirty-six months from the date the
agreement is signed.
Appendix A
Fixed Monthly Travel Payment
We have provided protection for security of earnings, having agreed a new
monthly travel payment, that consolidates existing variable payments for
Heathrow fleets. The payment will be based on the average of the 2008
schedule. The company will adjust the monthly travel payment each year, in
line with base pay.
How much will the payment be
The amounts have been calculated by fleet and grade and are as follows for a
full-time crew member. These rates are based on the 2008 schedule.
FLEET GRADE ANNUAL EQUIVALENT
Worldwide CSD £9,676
Worldwide Purser £9,258
Worldwide Main crew £8,085
Eurofleet CSD £2,470
Eurofleet Purser £2,470
Eurofleet Main crew £2,266
Part time crew will receive a pro-rata amount of the above monthly sums. If
part time crew are absent, the daily deduction rates will not be pro-rated as
the sum deducted relates to a single working day.
Fixed Monthly Travel Payment
This is a fixed payment to be paid on a monthly basis via 12 equal instalments
and will replace specified variable travel allowances currently earned by crew
(see below for specific details). The objective is to provide greater stability of
earnings for current crew in Heathrow Worldwide and Eurofleet to mitigate the
concerns over pace and mix of work transfer to separate new fleet.
Included within the Fixed Monthly Travel Payment
The Fixed Monthly Travel Payment will replace the variable allowances below,
which will cease to be paid:
Worldwide Eurofleet
Long Range Premiums (LRP)/Box Payment Long Day Payments (LDP)
Back-to-Back Payment (B2B) Excess Time Premium (ETP)
Destination Payment (DES) Base Early Report Payment (BER)
Excess Time Premium (ETP)
The following categories of allowance will continue to be paid in the same way
as they are today and are not included within scope of the Fixed Monthly
Travel payment:
Meal Allowances Daily Overseas Allowance (DOA)
Nightly Incidental Allowance (NIA) Time Away Allowance (TAA)
Line Trainer Payments Willing to work
Rest Day Working
Exceptional Payments from WW Disruption Agreement (One-Down and Zone
Closure)
Deductions
As this is intended to directly replace current variable flying allowances, daily
deductions at the normal rate for your fleet will be made to cover periods of
non-flying duties from the following list:
Sickness Unpaid Leave
Trade Union Activities Grounded Maternity (**)
Line Trainer Duties (*)
(*) Current Line Trainer payments will continue to apply
(**) Current Grounded Maternity Allowance payments will continue to be
made
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Redeployment Agreeemnt
Reargunner said:
Isn't part of the problem that crew, unlike just about every other part of BA, have never been in CareerLink? Too many just think that BA is there to pay their mortgage and rent, and unemployment is for others.
In my previous department, I knew one person who was in CareerLink for two years until she took VR last year. I also know of 10 others who were placed in CareerLink in July 2008 and have failed to find a job (though not for want of trying).
So, it's not surprising that BA wants to change the redeployment agreement and limit employees' stay in CareerLink to 12 months. It's fact that most companies don't have anything like CareerLink. Indeed, if you were to work for a US carrier looking to get rid of, say, 500 crew, they would just chop the last 500 who joined.
Tough though it can be in CareerLink, it's much preferable to be internally unemployed than externally unemployed. If you keep going on strike, you may well bring forward the day when you become externally unemployed.
Also previously described by bill Francis Oct 23rd as part of "our package of changes to IFCE"....he says "we added to our package an offer which includes a new monthly travel payment, proposed changes to the disruption agreement and our proposed new redeployment arrangement"
and that this is
* Surplus colleagues given 52 weeks to find a new role
* Surplus colleagues given preferential access to job vacancies
* Pay protection run down over 52 weeks for those redeployed
*Pension protection during last 5 years before retirement for redeployees
* Voluntary buy-out of existing Personal Differentials
When quizzed about the working of this on the BA forum, before it was closed down Bill's repeated reply was that crew have never been placed in Careerlink and he would not be drawn futher.
and that this is
* Surplus colleagues given 52 weeks to find a new role
* Surplus colleagues given preferential access to job vacancies
* Pay protection run down over 52 weeks for those redeployed
*Pension protection during last 5 years before retirement for redeployees
* Voluntary buy-out of existing Personal Differentials
When quizzed about the working of this on the BA forum, before it was closed down Bill's repeated reply was that crew have never been placed in Careerlink and he would not be drawn futher.
In my previous department, I knew one person who was in CareerLink for two years until she took VR last year. I also know of 10 others who were placed in CareerLink in July 2008 and have failed to find a job (though not for want of trying).
So, it's not surprising that BA wants to change the redeployment agreement and limit employees' stay in CareerLink to 12 months. It's fact that most companies don't have anything like CareerLink. Indeed, if you were to work for a US carrier looking to get rid of, say, 500 crew, they would just chop the last 500 who joined.
Tough though it can be in CareerLink, it's much preferable to be internally unemployed than externally unemployed. If you keep going on strike, you may well bring forward the day when you become externally unemployed.
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The Online Poll
Just got of the phone with a friend of mine, apparently the "online poll" is simply a link from Tony Woodleys' letter to crew.
It takes you to another page on the BASSA forum where it is simply a YES/NO vote, so here is the rub, they would have voted YES
but are too afraid to do so, because you log onto the forum using your staff number (and password) and therefore they feel they could be tracked by BASSA.
It takes you to another page on the BASSA forum where it is simply a YES/NO vote, so here is the rub, they would have voted YES
but are too afraid to do so, because you log onto the forum using your staff number (and password) and therefore they feel they could be tracked by BASSA.
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The Online Poll
According to a colleague, Amicus members can't vote at present as they don't have access to the BASSA website.
Apparently on crew forum, the individual who runs it is saying the Monthly Travel Payment is all they'll get on top of their basic salary and telling them to wake up and smell the coffee!
Unbelievably, there are still crew who have no idea what the MTP is. I guess it's what happens if you press the 'delete' button or choose not to read your emails and make an informed decision.
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal views and not those of my employer.
Apparently on crew forum, the individual who runs it is saying the Monthly Travel Payment is all they'll get on top of their basic salary and telling them to wake up and smell the coffee!
Unbelievably, there are still crew who have no idea what the MTP is. I guess it's what happens if you press the 'delete' button or choose not to read your emails and make an informed decision.
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal views and not those of my employer.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 29th Apr 2010 at 21:25. Reason: Spelling!
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Amicus and BASSA members can vote on the uniteba.com website.
Webform is there along with all the documents for all to see.
You have to include your membership number for the vote to be valid.
How else can they do it though?
Webform is there along with all the documents for all to see.
You have to include your membership number for the vote to be valid.
How else can they do it though?
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I think it is acceptable! Not brilliant but that is mainly UNITE's doing as last year we could have negotiated away New Fleet with last summers proposal!
But anyway why on earth reject this? And then strike?
Can a BASSA rep/UNITE official or any ''BASSA 100%'' supporter please tell me why I should reject it? As I feel like accepting it!
Do you honestly think the next proposal will be any better. What do you want?
But anyway why on earth reject this? And then strike?
Can a BASSA rep/UNITE official or any ''BASSA 100%'' supporter please tell me why I should reject it? As I feel like accepting it!
Do you honestly think the next proposal will be any better. What do you want?
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The Way Forward offer
Posted by Ottergirl
At the moment, the proposal is only to ballot CC union members which is currently about 60% of the work force. Many of the NO voters have resigned and a large amount of the strikebreakers were not union members so the vote will be somewhat biased.
At the moment, the proposal is only to ballot CC union members which is currently about 60% of the work force. Many of the NO voters have resigned and a large amount of the strikebreakers were not union members so the vote will be somewhat biased.
I'm delighted that we all now have an opportunity to vote on the offer in an email sent to all of us from Willie Walsh late this evening.
If you are not a member of UNITE like myself, you can do this via a link on the ESS homepage under IFCE, The Way Forward - Have your say on your future.
I have voted YES to accept the offer.
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The offer really is far more generous than I had expected. I do hope that people actually READ the proposal for themselves though and make an informed, adult decision on the basis of facts. You can end this dispute now and look to the future on your current T&Cs. Isn't that the best solution for everybody?
I do hope that people actually READ the proposal for themselves though and make an informed, adult decision on the basis of facts.
Just as importantly, Tony Woodley has written, in a letter dated 29th April:
.... any agreement is only as good as the integrity and sincerity of those putting their names to it. By their actions and behaviour throughout the dispute, and continuing to this day, it is impossible to take BA management’s words at their face value.
So, if a vote (and let us be honest, an online poll is fraught with the possibility of meddling) is made to reject the proposals, then what? Can any BASSA or Unite supporter explain that? Where do you go from here? It is a tacit admission that you have failed and have nowhere else to go! You can't negotiate with BA, because Tony Woodley says they cannot be trusted, in any from! You're up against the buffers with nowhere to go. So how do you extricate yourselves? It can't be done, can it. It just hastens the demise of those who seem to think they can bend BA's will. Dangerous thinking - be warned, many will be without jobs at all, never mind jobs they aren't happy with.
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Does anybody know when the BASSA poll begins and ends?
To answer a previous question, BASSA will only be interested in their own poll and not BA's. I wonder how many days it will take before BASSA declare the BA poll a stitch up??
BA are obviously doing this to capture the sentiment of the non-members, which will no doubt be used in future communications, but won't have a direct impact on the BASSA ballot.
As an aside the language about not trusting the management was used by BALPA during the Open Skies debacle. It was one of the defining points for me when I knew BALPA had totally lost the plot. Unfortunately, it's been clear for some time that BASSA have never even been aware of the plot, so this is just confirmation of what we already know!!
To answer a previous question, BASSA will only be interested in their own poll and not BA's. I wonder how many days it will take before BASSA declare the BA poll a stitch up??
BA are obviously doing this to capture the sentiment of the non-members, which will no doubt be used in future communications, but won't have a direct impact on the BASSA ballot.
As an aside the language about not trusting the management was used by BALPA during the Open Skies debacle. It was one of the defining points for me when I knew BALPA had totally lost the plot. Unfortunately, it's been clear for some time that BASSA have never even been aware of the plot, so this is just confirmation of what we already know!!