British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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At the moment, the proposal is only to ballot CC union members which is currently about 60% of the work force. Many of the NO voters have resigned and a large amount of the strikebreakers were not union members so the vote will be somewhat biased.
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a large amount of the strikebreakers were not union members
Last edited by Juan Tugoh; 28th Apr 2010 at 08:14.
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Ottergirl
Many of the NO voters have resigned and a large amount of the strikebreakers were not union members so the vote will be somewhat biased
....and Willie must know this.
I wonder why he has not pushed for a ballot of the whole CC community?
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question on the 12 week rule
So as we are aware, the following now applies I guess :-
The dismissal of any striking employee during the first 12 weeks of lawfully organised official strike action will be deemed unfair. If, as an employer, you lock out your workforce during this protected period, the lock out days are ignored when calculating the 12 week period. However, you can dismiss an employee after the 12 week period if you can show you have made genuine attempts to negotiate. This must include the proper use of any joint disputes resolution procedure.
Unfair dismissal claims may also be brought if you discriminate between employees by dismissing some of those who have taken part in the action but not others or if you've re-employed some employees but not others within 3 months of the dismissal. However, an employee dismissed whilst taking unofficial action cannot claim unfair dismissal.
Employees who are on strike and their union representatives can legitimately picket their own workplace and are protected from legal action as long as the picketing is peaceful, causes no obstruction, does not intimidate others and there is no damage.
Secondary action is not protected and those involved can be sued or prosecuted for damage. Secondary action encompasses picketing by non-employees, picketing of connected businesses, e.g. suppliers and sympathetic strikes by employees who are not in dispute with their own employer.
If so, it makes sense that this is the plan - BA got hold of c.£600m extra money last summer to ensure it got through any strikes. So far the strikes have not costs anywhere near that and we are half way through this period.
Part of the big plan to quickly make BA competitive again - What does everyone think ?
Clever WW - whatever it is, i think the deal should be approved and people cut their losses/look after the BA customer
The dismissal of any striking employee during the first 12 weeks of lawfully organised official strike action will be deemed unfair. If, as an employer, you lock out your workforce during this protected period, the lock out days are ignored when calculating the 12 week period. However, you can dismiss an employee after the 12 week period if you can show you have made genuine attempts to negotiate. This must include the proper use of any joint disputes resolution procedure.
Unfair dismissal claims may also be brought if you discriminate between employees by dismissing some of those who have taken part in the action but not others or if you've re-employed some employees but not others within 3 months of the dismissal. However, an employee dismissed whilst taking unofficial action cannot claim unfair dismissal.
Employees who are on strike and their union representatives can legitimately picket their own workplace and are protected from legal action as long as the picketing is peaceful, causes no obstruction, does not intimidate others and there is no damage.
Secondary action is not protected and those involved can be sued or prosecuted for damage. Secondary action encompasses picketing by non-employees, picketing of connected businesses, e.g. suppliers and sympathetic strikes by employees who are not in dispute with their own employer.
If so, it makes sense that this is the plan - BA got hold of c.£600m extra money last summer to ensure it got through any strikes. So far the strikes have not costs anywhere near that and we are half way through this period.
Part of the big plan to quickly make BA competitive again - What does everyone think ?
Clever WW - whatever it is, i think the deal should be approved and people cut their losses/look after the BA customer
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Employees who are on strike and their union representatives can legitimately picket their own workplace and are protected from legal action as long as the picketing is peaceful, causes no obstruction, does not intimidate others and there is no damage.
The behaviour of Unite and its activists has gone beyond the pale now. Our company cannot prosper whilst this appalling faction exists within. If we can get rid of BASSA and its appalling influence on our community, then it will have been worth the sacrifice of losing the previous offers. If however BASSA remains, many of BA's loyal and dedicated crew (and other employees) will be completely demotivated, and the future success of our company will be uncertain. There is no doubt whatsoever that Mr W needs to solve this dilemma to take BA forward.
I wonder why he has not pushed for a ballot of the whole CC community?
I am BA cabin crew and this is my viewpoint and not that of BA.
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I agree that BASSA needs to be dealt with - it can't come back after this, next year or the year after with more strike threats.
And I wonder if the deal was drawn up with this in mind: come up with something reasonable (inc return of ST) that Unite will not recommend. If they reject this is any court going to listen when they subsequently complain they still don't have ST? As BALPA discovered it is almost impossible to explain the rationale for "seniority" to people outside aviation - the complaint that they were going to get a date of joining in October will be laughed out of court.
So presumably all the BASSA supporters will vote no. I suspect some non strikers will vote no too and continue working through any further strikes - what on earth is in it for them if strikers get back ST? Why do they need a "deal" when they were happy to come to work anyway?
This is a deal that, potentially, will please absolutely nobody.
And I wonder if the deal was drawn up with this in mind: come up with something reasonable (inc return of ST) that Unite will not recommend. If they reject this is any court going to listen when they subsequently complain they still don't have ST? As BALPA discovered it is almost impossible to explain the rationale for "seniority" to people outside aviation - the complaint that they were going to get a date of joining in October will be laughed out of court.
So presumably all the BASSA supporters will vote no. I suspect some non strikers will vote no too and continue working through any further strikes - what on earth is in it for them if strikers get back ST? Why do they need a "deal" when they were happy to come to work anyway?
This is a deal that, potentially, will please absolutely nobody.
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Juan Odeboyse
PP are you making this up as you go along?
The 2000-3000 claim came from the BASSA branch secretary, although I note UNITE are now saying up 5000 people may lose their staff travel, don't you find it odd that BASSA have no idea who has been on strike or not?
Do YOU know of any crew that 'have been without pay or allowances for a very long time'?
Furthermore, anecdotal evidence from another site suggests that there are more in the same position
Which UNITE officials are 'deserting the cause'?
Would you care for a side bet based on a legal challenge, post "online poll" results?
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As BALPA discovered it is almost impossible to explain the rationale for "seniority" to people outside aviation
It's not rocket science, you know.
Even my non-English speaking grandmother, aged 96, understands the principle of "first in, first on
Last edited by wiggy; 28th Apr 2010 at 17:03. Reason: typo. removed
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This proposal should definately be put forward to all cabin crew to ensure that it is unbiased and as it is a proposal for all cabin crew then every crew member should be able to vote for it.
I feel now that it may be slightly biased towards Yes voters who are getting in a tizz about the fact that Staff Travel will be returned just with a brand new seniority of say October 2010!!
Now I don't really agree with the removal of staff travel as it is sort of a ''punishment'' and abit like blackmail but at the end of the day if it is non-contractual and they were told it would be removed before they striked, which they were, then why they get themselves in a tizz over seniority/DOJ of ST!!
I feel now that it may be slightly biased towards Yes voters who are getting in a tizz about the fact that Staff Travel will be returned just with a brand new seniority of say October 2010!!
Now I don't really agree with the removal of staff travel as it is sort of a ''punishment'' and abit like blackmail but at the end of the day if it is non-contractual and they were told it would be removed before they striked, which they were, then why they get themselves in a tizz over seniority/DOJ of ST!!
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Vrew balloting
SlideBustle wrote:
Willie Walsh is reluctant to ballot crew, possibly via a third-party, as he would be accused of undermining their union. As an ex-union rep, he would understand the implications of doing this.
This proposal should definately be put forward to all cabin crew to ensure that it is unbiased and as it is a proposal for all cabin crew then every crew member should be able to vote for it.
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Originally Posted by Caribbean Boy
According to press reports, the main sticking point is staff travel which, although BA has offered to reinstate from 1 October, will be without accrued service.
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Return of Staff Travel
Do you think that the return of ST is a figment of bassa's imagination which is being used to put pressure on BA to return ST/ stir up the troops if BA don't?
There is no mention of it anywhere trustworthy.
There is no mention of it anywhere trustworthy.
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The Proposal
The Way Forward - Have your say on your future
Under BA’s proposals, we’ve listened to you and the things you said really matter.
There are firm commitments on your pay, your individual contracts, your lifestyle choices and your future career opportunities.
Keep reading to find out more about this proposal and what it means for you.
Protecting and increasing your pay
You are not being asked to take a basic pay cut.
Although there’s no change in basic pay in the first year, you are guaranteed basic pay rises in line with inflation for the following two years.
And for most of you, you keep going up the increment scale each year worth between two and seven per cent.
Putting more cabin crew onboard
We’ve agreed to reinstate 184 crew to some routes.
We’d find the money to do this by removing the world wide early report and the telephone and language allowances, freezing increases on variable pay and overseas meal allowances, and changing crew meals.
We’d make it happen by beginning recruitment of cabin crew on new contracts and start a separate Mixed Fleet.
You won’t lose out to Mixed Fleet
We know you’ve been worried about what this means for you and we are offering you assurances about your future.
You can stay on your current fleet and keep your current terms and conditions.
You can still be promoted in your current fleet and transfer between Heathrow fleets, both on your current terms and conditions.
If you work at Gatwick, we have promised to look at limited opportunities for you to transfer to Heathrow also on the current terms and conditions.
You can apply to join Mixed Fleet, flying both short and longhaul.
You’d have a new contract with bonuses for good customer service, faster promotions and different ways of working.
There will be a fair share of routes and aircraft types between fleets to protect your lifestyle and any variable earnings.
A Heathrow monthly travel payment
If you work at Heathrow, a fixed monthly travel payment would replace some of your allowances.
This isn’t about saving us money. It is about protecting your average variable earnings.
The travel payment for full time crew would be worth between £2,266 and £9,676 a year depending on your grade and fleet. For part time crew it would be pro-rated. The amount will rise with future pay awards.
You will still get meal, disruption and some other allowances.
You can find out more about the allowances that stay and go, and how much you would earn each month by clicking here ( link to full proposal )
Opportunities for you
If you’ve listed for part time, you will get an offer by March 2011.
There will be part time opportunities in the future, all on existing fleets and terms and conditions.
If you work at Gatwick, we have promised to look at more long haul routes for you.
Working together for all our futures
We promise to play our part in building a bright future and we want you to be sure about what this means for you:
Under BA’s proposals, we’ve listened to you and the things you said really matter.
There are firm commitments on your pay, your individual contracts, your lifestyle choices and your future career opportunities.
Keep reading to find out more about this proposal and what it means for you.
Protecting and increasing your pay
You are not being asked to take a basic pay cut.
Although there’s no change in basic pay in the first year, you are guaranteed basic pay rises in line with inflation for the following two years.
And for most of you, you keep going up the increment scale each year worth between two and seven per cent.
Putting more cabin crew onboard
We’ve agreed to reinstate 184 crew to some routes.
We’d find the money to do this by removing the world wide early report and the telephone and language allowances, freezing increases on variable pay and overseas meal allowances, and changing crew meals.
We’d make it happen by beginning recruitment of cabin crew on new contracts and start a separate Mixed Fleet.
You won’t lose out to Mixed Fleet
We know you’ve been worried about what this means for you and we are offering you assurances about your future.
You can stay on your current fleet and keep your current terms and conditions.
You can still be promoted in your current fleet and transfer between Heathrow fleets, both on your current terms and conditions.
If you work at Gatwick, we have promised to look at limited opportunities for you to transfer to Heathrow also on the current terms and conditions.
You can apply to join Mixed Fleet, flying both short and longhaul.
You’d have a new contract with bonuses for good customer service, faster promotions and different ways of working.
There will be a fair share of routes and aircraft types between fleets to protect your lifestyle and any variable earnings.
A Heathrow monthly travel payment
If you work at Heathrow, a fixed monthly travel payment would replace some of your allowances.
This isn’t about saving us money. It is about protecting your average variable earnings.
The travel payment for full time crew would be worth between £2,266 and £9,676 a year depending on your grade and fleet. For part time crew it would be pro-rated. The amount will rise with future pay awards.
You will still get meal, disruption and some other allowances.
You can find out more about the allowances that stay and go, and how much you would earn each month by clicking here ( link to full proposal )
Opportunities for you
If you’ve listed for part time, you will get an offer by March 2011.
There will be part time opportunities in the future, all on existing fleets and terms and conditions.
If you work at Gatwick, we have promised to look at more long haul routes for you.
Working together for all our futures
We promise to play our part in building a bright future and we want you to be sure about what this means for you:
- Your current pay, hours and leave won’t change unless your union agrees
- You can apply for promotions on your current terms and conditions.
- You can transfer fleets at Heathrow on your current terms and conditions.
- Your current agreements stay the same so your working conditions do too.
- You will be offered a part time contract on your current terms and conditions by March 2011, if you’ve already registered.
- You won’t lose all the best earning routes to a new fleet
- You get a regular monthly income at Heathrow with the monthly travel payment even when you’re on leave, 24 hours, standby and SEP training.
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Having read the full and final version of the latest offer, it seems very fair and reasonable to me. BA have improved it by taking the MTP back to 2008 levels, and reducing the paydeal to 2 years instead of 4.
There is therefore no reason whatsoever for Unite to recommend that its members reject this offer. But it has.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
There is therefore no reason whatsoever for Unite to recommend that its members reject this offer. But it has.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.