British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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I think WW can demonstrate that he has been entirely reasonable in his approach and done everything he has said he would do.
He has tried to engage with the unions, compromised a little on restoring crew complements on some services, made noises about the potential return of staff travel in some form, etc.
Now if all these perfectly reasonable attempts are turned down, does that open the door for SOSR? Could people be shooting themselves in the foot big time with this one?
(The opinions above are my own and not those of my employer.)
He has tried to engage with the unions, compromised a little on restoring crew complements on some services, made noises about the potential return of staff travel in some form, etc.
Now if all these perfectly reasonable attempts are turned down, does that open the door for SOSR? Could people be shooting themselves in the foot big time with this one?
(The opinions above are my own and not those of my employer.)
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Latest from UNITE
This is taken from Unite's webpage.
WILL BA RESPECT THE DECISION?
The right to vote
The fate of our entire nation and every person in it will be decided in an election, next Thursday. This will be done by each person, registering to vote and having a valid polling day card and then having to make the effort to physically go to a polling station and cast a vote; there is only a narrow window of time on one specific day to do this, miss it and you won't be able to vote.
No threats or intimidation of voters is allowed under law and nobody can be victimised for their beliefs. According to this "democratic" process, the voters will judge the entire Government and leadership of this country and they will either carry on, or be replaced according to the result.
The fate of cabin crew will also be decided in a poll, next Thursday.
This will be done by each person going on line and then pressing a button to cast a vote. This can be done easily from any computer in the world, 24 hours a day, for a period of 7 days, starting from last evening.
Those who voted will have their votes counted. Threats and intimidation of voters will not only be allowed, but encouraged, and anybody with an opposing view to the leadership will be systematically victimised for their beliefs. This result will have no effect on our company's leadership, who will simply carry on and ignore it: because they are "right".
.. Sometimes, you can see why revolutions take place!
They are ignoring the fact that in a National Election everyone is able to vote regardless of what party they belong to.intimidation bearing in mind the number of BASSA members who are undergoing disciplinaries for that specific offence.
Methinks they protest too much!!
It's no a great idea for them to draw attention to the
WILL BA RESPECT THE DECISION?
The right to vote
The fate of our entire nation and every person in it will be decided in an election, next Thursday. This will be done by each person, registering to vote and having a valid polling day card and then having to make the effort to physically go to a polling station and cast a vote; there is only a narrow window of time on one specific day to do this, miss it and you won't be able to vote.
No threats or intimidation of voters is allowed under law and nobody can be victimised for their beliefs. According to this "democratic" process, the voters will judge the entire Government and leadership of this country and they will either carry on, or be replaced according to the result.
The fate of cabin crew will also be decided in a poll, next Thursday.
This will be done by each person going on line and then pressing a button to cast a vote. This can be done easily from any computer in the world, 24 hours a day, for a period of 7 days, starting from last evening.
Those who voted will have their votes counted. Threats and intimidation of voters will not only be allowed, but encouraged, and anybody with an opposing view to the leadership will be systematically victimised for their beliefs. This result will have no effect on our company's leadership, who will simply carry on and ignore it: because they are "right".
.. Sometimes, you can see why revolutions take place!
They are ignoring the fact that in a National Election everyone is able to vote regardless of what party they belong to.intimidation bearing in mind the number of BASSA members who are undergoing disciplinaries for that specific offence.
Methinks they protest too much!!
It's no a great idea for them to draw attention to the
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Court case
gr8tballsoffire wrote:
It's this case:
Malone & Ors v British Airways Plc [2010] EWHC 302 (QB) (19 February 2010)
Although Unite lost the case in which they claimed that the reduction of crew complements was a breach of contract, Unite has not ruled out an appeal.
Does anyone know what this court case is about that WW wants Unite to drop as part of the deal?
Malone & Ors v British Airways Plc [2010] EWHC 302 (QB) (19 February 2010)
Although Unite lost the case in which they claimed that the reduction of crew complements was a breach of contract, Unite has not ruled out an appeal.
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Melissa1510
It will not take 15 years for New Fleet to be fully implemented. It will take less time than this. They have already suggested quite a few destinations to go over and once the fleet is running they will transfer over destination by destination. Why did they choose the least popular destinations for New Fleet? Because they think crew wouldn't mind losing them. For future route transfers, they don't need to negotiate anything with BASSA because the proposal says "discuss" and there's the difference.
Are crew really worried about what is going to happen in 15 years? I think you will find that many are worried about what will happen. It will not take 15 years.
MTP seems like a good deal but it also says that it will be adjusted every year and based on the flight schedule. As routes go over to New Fleet there will be a reduction in flights on both EF and WW and logically the MTP rate would also be decreased.
This proposal has far too many loopholes. I will not even touch it.
It will not take 15 years for New Fleet to be fully implemented. It will take less time than this. They have already suggested quite a few destinations to go over and once the fleet is running they will transfer over destination by destination. Why did they choose the least popular destinations for New Fleet? Because they think crew wouldn't mind losing them. For future route transfers, they don't need to negotiate anything with BASSA because the proposal says "discuss" and there's the difference.
Are crew really worried about what is going to happen in 15 years? I think you will find that many are worried about what will happen. It will not take 15 years.
MTP seems like a good deal but it also says that it will be adjusted every year and based on the flight schedule. As routes go over to New Fleet there will be a reduction in flights on both EF and WW and logically the MTP rate would also be decreased.
This proposal has far too many loopholes. I will not even touch it.
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redeployment changes=pension changes?
A couple of days ago I mentioned that I was concerned by the inclusion of the new redeployment agreement in this and all previous offers put to the cabin crew.
Bill Francis says that there is no connection between this and the creation of the new low cost fleet at London and that no cabin crew were ever in Careerlink. I still feel that creating a new fleet to do the work is going to change all the resons crew have been previously protected.
Now I hear that this same change to all BA contracts has important implications for the future of our pension scheme. I was given to this link to a report suggesting that one of the principle barriers to closure of the FSS schemes is this very old part of all our contracts.
Dr. Ros Altmann - investment expert, investment banker, economist and pensions industry adviser
Does anyone think this is a genuine concern? Have other employee groups already agreed to these changes?
Bill Francis says that there is no connection between this and the creation of the new low cost fleet at London and that no cabin crew were ever in Careerlink. I still feel that creating a new fleet to do the work is going to change all the resons crew have been previously protected.
Now I hear that this same change to all BA contracts has important implications for the future of our pension scheme. I was given to this link to a report suggesting that one of the principle barriers to closure of the FSS schemes is this very old part of all our contracts.
Dr. Ros Altmann - investment expert, investment banker, economist and pensions industry adviser
Does anyone think this is a genuine concern? Have other employee groups already agreed to these changes?
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MissM
Well good luck, as the offers will only get worse not better. BASSA have already conceded New Fleet, they are more worried about staff travel and suspended reps now.
It's truly appalling that in this day and age, with all the information out there, that union members still fall for the BASSA propaganda...
I wish you luck in this slow motion car crash.
Well good luck, as the offers will only get worse not better. BASSA have already conceded New Fleet, they are more worried about staff travel and suspended reps now.
It's truly appalling that in this day and age, with all the information out there, that union members still fall for the BASSA propaganda...
I wish you luck in this slow motion car crash.
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First it was about "imposition" (despite the fact that negotiations had taken place for nine months).
Now, it seems to be all about the return of staff travel - read the Unite website drivel. The majority of posts on BF's webchat yesterday were along the lines of "I would accept this proposal if you give me my staff travel back".
Really? Well this proposal is in fact worse than the proposal that was REJECTED in March when Len McLuskey, under instruction it appears from the BASSA reps, took it upon himself to announce strike dates. So if it wasn't good enough then, why, subject to staff travel, would it be good enough now?
It really does prove how utterly useless and incompetent BASSA really are.
MissM - you have admitted to having a complete lack of trust of management, but please don't state things that you THINK will happen as facts.
That is what is quoted in the Way Forward offer. Nowhere does it mention that it could "just decrease". Additionally, because it is contractual, BA would not be able to just "decrease" it any more than they can just "decrease" our basic pay.
BASSA have whipped people into a frenzy of unfounded paranoia, and it now stands to wreck all our livelihoods as they fail to see the grave errors BASSA is making.
I am BA crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Now, it seems to be all about the return of staff travel - read the Unite website drivel. The majority of posts on BF's webchat yesterday were along the lines of "I would accept this proposal if you give me my staff travel back".
Really? Well this proposal is in fact worse than the proposal that was REJECTED in March when Len McLuskey, under instruction it appears from the BASSA reps, took it upon himself to announce strike dates. So if it wasn't good enough then, why, subject to staff travel, would it be good enough now?
It really does prove how utterly useless and incompetent BASSA really are.
MissM - you have admitted to having a complete lack of trust of management, but please don't state things that you THINK will happen as facts.
The company will adjust the monthly travel payment each year, in line with base pay.
BASSA have whipped people into a frenzy of unfounded paranoia, and it now stands to wreck all our livelihoods as they fail to see the grave errors BASSA is making.
I am BA crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
MissM
It is time you moved on. You will now have to accept the best aggreement you can get, which will be worse than that on offer before your IA.
The vast majority of other BA staff do not support you.
Your colleagues do not support you, over 60% turned up for work when rostered on strike days.
BA does not need you, if 75% of cabin crew work during any future IA, all passengers can be carried using volunteers to top up crew complements, and some flight consolidation( Very few, if any pilots, needed now as temp cc, as enough groundstaff trained, many being Unite members themselves)
BA have been operating extra flights with reduced, majority volunteer crew, taking 1 local night rest on LR trips in order to get stranded pax (remember them? the people who pay your very adequate salary) home after the V Ash problems, with no BASSA interference.
Reality check needed by you and like minded colleagues!
The vast majority of other BA staff do not support you.
Your colleagues do not support you, over 60% turned up for work when rostered on strike days.
BA does not need you, if 75% of cabin crew work during any future IA, all passengers can be carried using volunteers to top up crew complements, and some flight consolidation( Very few, if any pilots, needed now as temp cc, as enough groundstaff trained, many being Unite members themselves)
BA have been operating extra flights with reduced, majority volunteer crew, taking 1 local night rest on LR trips in order to get stranded pax (remember them? the people who pay your very adequate salary) home after the V Ash problems, with no BASSA interference.
Reality check needed by you and like minded colleagues!
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This proposal has far too many loopholes. I will not even touch it.
I'm afraid you have very little choice. What are you going to do about it?
Most of the reps aren't available to negotiate, it's take it or leave it I'm afraid. The deal is done and I hold BASSA solely responsible for this.They had the opportunity to negotiate a better rate on the MTP but chose not to.
It's about choices Miss M, and sadly for all the crew community, BASSA made that choice for us and for all those who lost their Staff Travel. No point blaming BA or anyone else now( and I don't mean you personally).
And for the amount of crew who are going on about IFCE being a horrible place to work in, they need to look closer to home. I came to work during the strike and the intimidation I have suffered from strikers since the last strike is disgraceful and appalling.
Have a look at Bill Francis's Q&A yesterday, the answers are all there.
I personally feel a lot of strikers will do a U turn and accept the offer instead of supporting further industrial action. Going on strike is only going to make things far worse for all of us. Please, don't do it.
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal views and not those of my employer.
PS:Reargunner, Most of us have seen the link you posted, it's been on other websites for some time.
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Have all the BA CC noticed the extra tax you are paying on your allowances in the last couple of months because once again BASSA failed to negotiate??
And you still believe they are looking out for your interests?
And you still believe they are looking out for your interests?
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mixed crews
Did I hear correctly that BA operated full VCC crews on repatriation flights because BASSA refused mixed crews (main and VCC), if its true, imagine the public response to this if it made the press, but, is it true ?
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MissM
So when this deal or a worse one is in place i assume you will be leaving BA's employ ?..
Well good luck in the future...
This proposal has far too many loopholes. I will not even touch it.
Well good luck in the future...
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History repeating itself
Am I alone in seeing history repeating itself here? Back in 1997 BASSA refused everything, refused to talk/sit in the same room etc etc .Then they called a 3 day strike which was supported, but not to a great extent. Most crew went sick.
CC89 (as was) did not call for strike action, but continued to negotiate and then sign, the Worldwide Agreement we know today. BASSA refused to sign it initially. Yet again we have the lies, the propaganda and the total inflexibility of a bunch of people who, no matter what the outcome of the proposal/disciplinaries etc, are protected by UNITE for whom they work and have clocked up enough years and pension contributions within BA to be financially safe in the future. The rest of us are going to be left hanging high and dry if this proposal is not accepted. The next offer will be a lot less favourable.
Had BASSA even considered discussing "The Hourly Rate" a few years ago we would not be in this mess now, but guess what - they refused to sit and even consider it......you've got to give it to BASSA for consistency at least!
CC89 (as was) did not call for strike action, but continued to negotiate and then sign, the Worldwide Agreement we know today. BASSA refused to sign it initially. Yet again we have the lies, the propaganda and the total inflexibility of a bunch of people who, no matter what the outcome of the proposal/disciplinaries etc, are protected by UNITE for whom they work and have clocked up enough years and pension contributions within BA to be financially safe in the future. The rest of us are going to be left hanging high and dry if this proposal is not accepted. The next offer will be a lot less favourable.
Had BASSA even considered discussing "The Hourly Rate" a few years ago we would not be in this mess now, but guess what - they refused to sit and even consider it......you've got to give it to BASSA for consistency at least!
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Did I hear correctly that BA operated full VCC crews on repatriation flights because BASSA refused mixed crews (main and VCC), if its true, imagine the public response to this if it made the press, but, is it true ?
BA were too short of crew to cover and used mixed crews of volunteers and real cabin crew plus a couple of just volunteer crews. I posted on this when I got the message. It surprised me because the approach had been (until this weekend) that the identity of all volunteers needed to be top secret.
I worked a trip with a mixed crew of volunteers and strikers myself.
Perhaps we are not as viscious as some posters on here suggest?
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15 years to go
MissM i understand you concern, however, after 12 years, we still have many crew on the "old" contract, why would be different this time? haw can BA substitute crew so quikly? BA is not growing that fast and the turn around rate for cew is quite low. I honestly don't see fast changes any time soon. Only my opinion...