British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[BAAlltheway]

Reargunner...

I worked a trip with a mixed crew of volunteers and strikers myself.

Perhaps we are not as viscious as some posters on here suggest?

Unfortunately, whilst i absolutely agree with you that the majority of crew may not be vicious, there certainly seem to be some who are, and others who are not totally above blame.

In my department are 2 VCC who were called in at short notice to operate two of the recently repat flights alongside regular crew.

Unfortunately both of these people and the other vcc on their flights were deliberately and obviously given the cold shoulder by the rest of the cabin crew once down route.
Most uncomfortable. Fortunately the flight crew on both flights proffered the hand of friendship and invited the VCC to join them. (on their behalf i thank you for this gesture.)

Given the situation, that these flights were being operated for stranded customers, and VCC used due to lack of available main crew, you would have hoped that this kind of pettiness could have been avoided.


(edited due stooopid typo)

[oh-oh]

Quote:
Reargunner:
Sorry, but that is not true. BASSA offered both the disruption alleviation and the additional alleviation to reduce downroute rest to legal minimum on the repatriation flights.

--------------------------

Funny, BA stated BASSA refused to offer the allevation!

[Satan]

BASSA did indeed refuse the requests from BA. To quote at least two cases I have knowledge of, an HKG and a BGI where an empty aircraft was sent to rescue stranded passengers, the aircraft was only available for a fixed number of hours before slotting back into the normal revenue operation, between 24 and 36.

BASSA refused the company's request to have a crew position out on empty aircraft, then take minimum legal rest and operate home with stranded passengers. Their rationale: if you are the only crew on an empty aircraft, you have duties to perform, therefore you cannot be considered to be positioning, but operating, Therefore no alleviation.

Any BASSA-sanctioned crew would have required 24 hours off after positioning out on an empty aircraft. This would not have worked. Hence the solution the company arrived at, that allowed the aircraft to operate. Minimum legal rest was taken, and the flights operated, and the passengers returned home.

Another triumph for BASSA, a "modern and progressive union" to quote from their webpage.

[Tiramisu]

Posted by oh-oh
Funny, BA stated BASSA refused to offer the allevation!

oh-oh,
I can confirm that BASSA did offer alleviation and even extended it till Wednesday the 28th. It was confirmed by Bill Francis in an email to all cabin crew on the 19th of April.
I am not a BASSA member, just stating fact. Reargunner is correct and I also posted this last week post #2099.

I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal views.

[Pornpants1]

Satan is correct in his/hers information whilst BASSA agreed to the disruption agreement, anything else "outside" of that was a NO NO, just to keep this factual you understand

[Satan]

Sorry, I should have made it clearer: BA were looking for a solution that would have allowed the aircraft to be utilised in the timeframe available. That would have basically required BASSA to accept the ongoing situation and agree to waive the already-in-place disruption agreement, otherwise the flights would not have operated. They were being asked for crews to operate to minimum legal rest, which is less than that afforded by their disruption agreement, however an amount that the Flight Crew will operate to regularly whenever disruption occurs. And is fully legal. And is enough.

They did not do so. They required their disruption agreement to be honoured in full, despite the fact that that would have rendered the flights a no-go, leaving passengers stranded when the resources were potentially available to bring them to the UK.

So, and I should know this, the Devil truly lies in the detail!

[winstonsmith]

BASSA did not give alleviation for HKG - it is exactly as Satan claims.

HKG also would have required 2 local nights - even after positioning - as it is considered an LR.

[Melissa1510]

VCC and CC during ash cloud crisis

One of my colleague was asked to operate in a very short notice. he had to cancel prior arrangments and reluctantly agreed to fly knowing that was going to screw future working arrangment too. there were other VCC and temps along 2 main crew for that particular flight. 1 of the main CC apparently was a striker and made very clear that was not going to like the rest and made the journey difficult for every one. This flight came back full and with 15 staff as well who were stuck there for ages. Many crew have been given compassionate leave after the event, this was possible thanks to the VCC stepping in and allliviate their duties.
I know many crew and i believe majority of our colleagues are very respectable professional human being, strikers or not, these few that stick to their selfish guns should ware prescription glasses to correct their very strong miopia when they look at what is important in life.

[Pornpants1]

ignoring the elephant in the room

Everybody ,it seems are sticking their necks in the sand when it comes to discussing events around the 12th June, when in theory the BASSA strike mandate runs out.

Mentioned in the gaurdian today (the well known liberal newspaper)(what was it Nick Clegg said about the strike) is talk of strike action lasting 10-12 days from possibly the 14th May, this will cost the company some £50-£60 million pounds, and I doubt will change anything for BASSA or the Cabin Crew that elect to strike.

So what happens on the 12th June when the company potentially have the mandate to sack all strikers? What will BASSA do for you then? Do they have their legal team looking at how events could unfold for those strikers come the 12th June?

Or will they be making it up as they go along just like staff travel?

I know who my friends will be trusting.

[Caribbean Boy]

I hope that BA will not - unless it is a last resort - serve a 90-day SOSR on cabin crew and re-employ only those who sign the new agreement on New Fleet as this will fail to give recognition to the great majority of crew of worked during the strikes.

[giza]

Could it be that SOSR is only offered to those that took part in the strike, the rest can then accept the offer that is now on the table.

[Reargunner]

Well, there seem to be conflicting stories about whether the union agreed or not. I rang and asked if they had, and they told me yes. Karen Slinger then told me that the shortage of cabin crew was so severe from the disruption that they could not man these flights anyway and had to use VC purely because of manpower needs.

I posted on the previous page about this concern over the new redeployment agreement being linked into the cabin crew agreements, and asked about the impact on BA's ability to close down the pensions schemes. I was hoping that somebody who knows more about pensions could have told me if it is a real concern.

Does anybody know which employee groups have already agreed the changes, and if this is a real issue?
Dr. Ros Altmann - investment expert, investment banker, economist and pensions industry adviser

Find IFAs and Financial Advisers at the financial social network : IFA Life - Will Ba Be The First Major Company To Be Bankrupted By Its Pension?

[Pornpants1]

To be fair caribbean boy, I don't think that they will be offered re-employment just shown the door full stop

Reargunner, I'm more worried about BAs ability to pay for pensions now or in the future to be concerned about those two articles.Lots of maybes and what ifs. I think certain people may be clinging onto them as yet another what if, conspiracy theory in order to get a few more NO votes, neither of the articles concern me

[Reargunner]

I see, I just wanted to hear some opinions, thanks Pornpants.

[Litebulbs]

Is the consensus on this thread, that employees that took protected industrial action, should be treated differently to those that did not?

[License to Fly]

todays Guardian link

BA cabin crew union considers 12-day walkout if deal is rejected | Business | The Observer

[ottergirl]

re; The Guardian article

I don't think they are just considering it, from the mood of the CC I would say its a dead cert! The proposal is exactly the same as the last one which was rejected and to quote our manager in a recent Q&A, "why would you be happy to accept it this time when last time you voted to strike?" Intentionally provocative?

It appears to me that neither side has any interest in negotiation or compromise. If no-one is prepared to move their position then no progress can ever be made. We need a smiley with two heads banging together!

[Middy]

An Easy Decision

Vote NO to the proposal from the Company and lose one's job.

Vote YES to the proposal from the Company and keep one's job.

Easy decision.

[SlideBustle]

The thing is as crew we are definately stuck between a rock and a hard place (if that's the correct saying!)

BA are saying no more talks they have talked for 14months and have offered enough and compromised enough.

The union does not like the offer one iota. The strikers WANT staff travel back - no strings attatched. Most strikers will vote No to this deal. As for non-strikers and non-union members it will be mixed between Yes/No so not actually sure how it will turn out. Also not sure if the ESS poll is actually going to be officially counted! It must be though?

IF it is a majority REJECT of this proposal - short of a strike, what on earth will happen? I am getting really fed up and stressed now! IF there is another strike - what on earth do UNITE hope will happen as BA has said it is not going to compromise further. In a Q&A it has been said that Staff Travel will not be considered AT ALL if this is rejected. However if BA do not compromise. Unite will just strike.

It seems this dispute will just carry on! Unless BA reinstates Staff Travel in full (hmmm will that happen?) or UNITE accept the permanent loss of Staff Travel/ST seniority (again not going to happen!) So what? 12 day strikes for the rest of the year???? Which of course is a) not sustainable for the company and the majority of crew!!!

Each strike that takes place will be weaker and weaker.... original strikers will not be able to afford to strike all the time..... plus there are plenty of us who didn't strike and won't strike anyway! And BA has a whole load of Volunteer crew to help flights get away?

Arghhhh!!!!

[Middy]

Slidebustle, As I said an easy decision.

Any one who is thinking ( ! ) of rejecting this offer is mad.

The company is not going to change its mind and any right and intelligent thinking crew would be wise to cut and run.

It's a no brainer.