British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[Litebulbs]

dwshimoda

Your point is valid. My point was about something new for all going forward.

[The SSK]

I believe that Aer Lingus - long before WW's reign there - removed ST privileges from striking engineers. I don't have further details.

[JOSHUA]

M.Mouse wrote:

flying_chick

You seem to hold very strong views so would you (as nobody else has yet replied despite repeated requests by several people) state why you are on strike to achieve and what you want to achieve before returning to work?

It would be of of interest to many of us if you do so. The moderator's statement makes it clear that personal attacks on you will be deleted so what have you got to lose?

I too would be very interested to understand exactly why you and 'some' of your colleagues are on strike and what is your aim?

[Skylion]

Actually the Middle Eastern carriers are not "hurting hugely" at the moment and in fact are doing rather well thanks to their geographical position, huge and ever growing hub synergies and high standards of courtesy and service. Thanks particularly to the antics of the Arora and football ground fraternity and these carriers general requirement for high standards of discipline and public behaviour it is highly unlikely though that any cabin crew with BA on their cv will now be considered for employment by any of them.

[HiFlyer14]

I have to say the pay/contractual/one crew member off situation has become a secondary issue.

To say that pay/contractual/one crew member off situation has become a secondary issue is dangerous in the extreme, and to underestimate the gravity of what this is all about.

The latest offer, The Way Forward, is terrible for crew for the following reasons.

1. 184 crew will go back on current fleets (simply to appease BASSA) but it will initiate New Fleet almost immediately as it states "Any new recruitment to facilitate complement changes will be into a new fleet".

2. The 4 year pay deal is simply at rate of inflation - 4 yrs is a long time. Isn't a pay deal, in order to be of any benefit, suppposed to be ABOVE the rate of inflation?

3. The bonus in the previous offer (6% operating profit margin) has been removed.

4. The Monthly Travel Payment is set on current rates - whereas up until now it was going to be set at 2008/9 rates.

5. Meal allowances - frozen for 1 year

6. Variable pay - frozen for 1 year

7. Loss of incidentals - tel allowance/lang allowance/etc.

There are no benefits in this whatsoever for crew; we would undoubtedly be better off just working to the current crew complements and negotiating on New Fleet when the time comes.

Those of us that have shown our loyalty to BA do not deserve this offer. However, it is extremely likely that BASSA's blustering mistakes, will now mean that the majority of crew will accept this offer just to put an end to this situation- and that would be a travesty. The strike will have been for nothing. The loyalty of the non-strikers will have been for nothing. We will, as an entire community have achieved nothing. And BA will have achieved the deal that they probably wanted all along. And all the reasonable deals that have been offered to us along the way will have been squandered by BASSA.

And there I was thinking a Union was something that was beneficial to its members.

[draglift]

flying_chick

You seem to hold very strong views so would you (as nobody else has yet replied despite repeated requests by several people) state why you are on strike to achieve and what you want to achieve before returning to work?

The cabin crew I talked to who had voted for strike action said initially BASSA had led them in that direction as it was clearly BASSA policy to induce its members to take strike action if BA did anything that might impact in any way on their salary, lifestyle or career aspirations. This had always been the case.

Those who voted for a strike did not think it would go as far as it has. They expected BA to back down. For most of them this is now unknown territory and very frightening. I have talked to several cabin crew this week who said they have resigned from BASSA as they recognise BASSA are no longer representing their needs or best interests. Others said "they hope a solution will be found" as though BA will magically back down and come up with a face saving solution that will suit BASSA and the cabin crew. Noone believes BASSA will back down without some improvement in the original offer. A couple have said they would be very happy to accept the original BA offer that was never passed on by BASSA to them.

I suspect the next meeting between BASSA and Unite will ressemble a Tourette's Syndrome convention.

[Beagle9]

Re post 1174 - a suspicious motorbike buzzing the crew bus. If the police want a lead, thay could start by checking out black Honda VFR800 VTECs on an '09 plate.

One was cruising up and down the A4 Bath road on Sunday afternoon as I was driving home. It u-turned twice, once at the traffic lights at the juction for the turning into Harlington and again just past Waterside.

I sat next to it at the lights at Waterside just as the BASSA "Battlebus" passed by in the other direction "Giving it Willie", and I thought it very suspicious at the time.

[Rover90]

I too would be very interested to understand exactly why you and 'some' of your colleagues are on strike and what is your aim?

Think you will have to join an ever growing queue on this thread, it has been requested numerous times and never addressed directly.

For a union that is in denial, it is probable that this "way forward" will be rejected by BASSA/UNITE as there simply is nowhere else for them to go without losing all credibility.

As HiFlyer explains, we have seen the situation go from bad to worse for both strikers and BA supporters.

When someone answers the original question poised, perhaps they could also answer this question:

Do BASSA/UNITE think we are in a stronger position than when we could have settled last June? or November?...negotiations earlier this year perhaps?....March 19th even? Of course not, it has progressively gone from bad to worse and it is still rapidly heading south.

In short, where on earth are the BASSA/UNITE leadership leading ALL of us and do they actually know?

[miamimike]

HiFlyer14,please dont get me wrong.The pay/contractual/one-off aspect is obviously extremely important.It is part of the basis for the dispute will I believe be resolved without the need for more ID.My comments were made pointing out to FD that their "intervention"had made for a very,very difficult aftermath when everyone returns to work (No P45s+staff tvl re-instated).Their intervention has exasperated and prolonged the situation.

[Get Smart]

Again, I reiterate, Unite/bassa seem to be busy sending out all sorts of uninteresting texts, but no indication of what the next plan of action is for them? No-one is talking. I suspect WW is just going to wait for them to call another set of strikes and we'll put the same plan of action into place that seems to be working so well. Those are are not striking seem to enjoy working on days where strikers are not there and managing perfectly without them.

Further to the Arora demo, may I personally say to any strikers here, no-one has a problem if you want to march down the streets and demonstate in a dignified fashion but it is not acceptable to bully and imtimidate strike-breakers as was clearly demonstrated on the youtube clip. Indefensible. Thats exactly what they did. The camera doesn't lie.

I would be interested to know what element of that clip do you think was NOT subjecting those in the hotel - with your inappropiate chants to feeling imtimidated?

[Pornpants1]

miamimike

My comments were made pointing out to FD that their "intervention"had made for a very,very difficult aftermath when everyone returns to work (No P45s+staff tvl re-instated).Their intervention has exasperated and prolonged the situation.

To my mind Miamimike, and you see it all the time on "other" forums, you know the two I'm talking about Cabin Crew and BASSA are very keen to pass the blame onto volunteer pilots (FD is a place) for not winning this dispute. Yet the only people who are to blame are BASSA and certain elements within UNITE whom led you blindly into a strike that very few wanted. Why don't you look internally at all your problems before looking elsewhere for a scapegoat?

PS The utilisation rate for volunteer pilot cabin crew is around 10% thats because more Cabin Crew have crossed the picket line than have joined the strike, in fact the reduced operation could have run more or less successfully without any need for them probably not what you wanted to hear.

[Fox3Maddog]

Those of us that have shown our loyalty to BA do not deserve this offer. However, it is extremely likely that BASSA's blustering mistakes, will now mean that the majority of crew will accept this offer just to put an end to this situation- and that would be a travesty. The strike will have been for nothing. The loyalty of the non-strikers will have been for nothing. We will, as an entire community have achieved nothing. And BA will have achieved the deal that they probably wanted all along. And all the reasonable deals that have been offered to us along the way will have been squandered by BASSA.

And there I was thinking a Union was something that was beneficial to its members.

HiFlyer - the most succinct paragraph i have seen posted since this whole debacle began. From the moment the pre strike offer was rejected by unite, this was always going to be the outcome. I feel desperately sorry for those who will receive as a reward for their loyalty a far worse offer than they deserve as a result of BASSAs incompetance. That those colleagues who worked alongside you during the IA stand in admiration of your courage will be of scant consolation I'd imagine. Lets hope that this re-tabled offer - sub optimal though it may be - is put forward to the members to let them decide. After that, the only certainty is that the next offer will be even worse....

[Runway vacated]

miamimike

Their intervention has exasperated and prolonged the situation.

What on earth are you talking about?!

Firstly, the actions of the volunteers, alongside those of the cc who came to work, has helped ensure that we actually HAVE an aftermath of any sort.

Secondly, does it ever occur to you that WE, (you know the one's actually doing our jobs whilst you throw your hissy fit at Bedfont,) might actually be furious with YOU? Your blinkered arrogance and naive stupidity have cost OUR employer millions and millions, and got you precisely nowhere in your pursuit of unrealistic goals by unscrupulous means.

By all means go on strike, everyone has that right, but for God's sake make sure it's a strike that has a.) achievable objectives, and b.) the support of the majority.

The actions of BASSA have failed on both scores.

The aftermath is not going to be unpleasant because, in this act of industrial Darwinism, a whole section of the workforce have selected themselves out of the gene pool. The rest of us will prosper in their absence.

[Crewhusband]

what happens next

hi all, lots of posts have made interesting reading over the last couple of days. Before I start I am not crew but my wife is..... and I have had to support her over the last few weeks with the situation that she has found herself in - she did not vote either way. Last year when strikes where discussed - all she wanted to do was go to work and enjoy her job, she has worked as crew 15+ years with 4 other airlines, (including charter) and she has solid understanding of working conditions of how other airlines treat their CC............ anyhow to get to the point.

She worked over the strike, not without changing her mind atleast a million times ??? on what to do..... she supports the CC cause but could not justify hurting the airline financially - companies that don't make profits don't last very long....... If the company was breaking even and the economy was growing, she would have striked.... enough said.

She again worked today - the day she was the most anxious about as she would come into contact with striking crew...... although reading this thread it seems that any intimidation would be DEALT with.... anyhow she is not yet home but deeply upset about her day being the only non striker on the plane, and saying that it was her worst day at work in her flying career...

Does anyone know of where she can get some actual support? - can she request that she can work atleast in a crew evenly balanced of non strikers vs strikers?I agree that both sides have probably stretched the facts to suit their causes, but BA has clearly given the message that it will support the staff that supported them..... we are not interested in ST, my wife just wants to go to work and do her job - with a smile on her face and not find herself worrying about friction in the cabin - surely if there is an atmosphere - then the customers would pick up on it?

Would be interested to hear from other cc about flights today? did my wife just find herself in an unlucky situation?

[cheeky chappy]

act of industrial Darwinism

What a wonderful little phrase.

A little bird tells me that members are leaving Unite by the hundreds weekly, particularly after the "Fighting fund" announcement.
You never know perhaps they might struggle to pay the much vaunted strike pay...

[jetset lady]

Originally Posted by draglift

Those who voted for a strike did not think it would go as far as it has.

I'm sorry but I'm sick of hearing this. "We thought he'd back down.." Jesus Christ! To anyone that thought that, you were told enough times that he wouldn't. You had the same access to all the information that the rest of us had. You could have done a little research for yourselves. But no, you just followed the crowd. Let me say it once and for all. You are not in playschool. This is real life and that means accepting responsibility for your decisions. I actually have more respect for those that voted yes and had the balls to follow that up.

To be fair, I know that there are a fair amount of crew that would have striked, had it not been for the union not even giving them the chance to vote on BA's offer. This does not include them as they had good reason to change their mind and most that did, did so with out fuss or ceremony. I have no problem with them. It's with all the "I don't know what to do...I'm scared...someone hold my hand" people that I'm fast losing patience. None of us are particularly enjoying this but come on! YOU ARE ADULTS! How the heck are you expecting to take control of everyone in a full on emergency if you can't even take control of your own mind?

Sorry....but that's the way I feel right now. There's only so much hand holding I can do.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by Runway vacated

b.) the support of the majority.

It did have the support of the majority.

[Pornpants1]

Miamimike, I'm quite open to debate, even if I don't agree with you but one liners don't really cut the mustard

So given that:-

a) more cabin crew have turned up than BA planned for and many both WW and EF have been sent home with out being utilised

and

b) the utilisation of Pilot volunteers has been as low as 10%

further

c) volunteers from other BA areas outnumber the pilot volunteers (and is growing rapidly)

how and I quote you

Their intervention has exasperated and prolonged the situation.

Its a genuine question Miami mike, because after 30 years service I would have thought that you may just be able to see through the collective BASSA group think , or maybe not

[midman]

Originally Posted by miamimike

Well lads,sometimes the truth hurts.

Well the truth is not what you choose to believe, it's what you actually experience.

What you experience on your return to work will be quite different from the past. Your working life will not be 'managed' by Bassa, you will not be able to go running to Bassa every time you're unhappy with something, you won't be able to phone Bassa and get off the aircraft because you're one minute over, or one person short. You will find a working environment where the tail is no longer wagging the dog.

The company is regaining control of the business and the Captain is regaining control of his crew and his flight.

You might wish to give credit to Bassa for creating this situation for you, or blame pilots and WW for bringing about the demise of the cabin crew Ts and Cs, depending on your mood at the time. Credit or blame, everyone has played their part well in this production, and I await the final curtain with interest.

Truth is in the eye of the beholder, but what you experience in the near future will tell you who has gained from this confrontation.

[Litebulbs]

Originally Posted by spin_doctor

I think RW may have been alluding to the fact that well over 80% of LHR EF crew came to work this time round, not to mention 97% of LGW crew.

Was the 80% reflective of the operation flown, or the full schedule? As I read it, BA has not lied once on the figures, but has been extremely clever at presenting the facts. I would expect no less however.