British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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This is 100% reliable information and not gossip -
At least we shouldn't have to put up with it much longer.
Last edited by Human Factor; 27th Apr 2010 at 11:14.
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I'm VCC and most of my mates are and I can assure you there is no 'body' representing us in talks with WW.
Last edited by midman; 27th Apr 2010 at 14:21.
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I never take things personally or too seriously so I probably couldn't be less bothered if a pilot, or anyone else in the company, created something similar about cabin crew.
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Staff Travel
Staff travel is awarded to staff for loyalty and length of service rewards,
therefore if staff break their service i.e strike, then they should have to start from the beginning again.So give S.T back to them again as new starters..
therefore if staff break their service i.e strike, then they should have to start from the beginning again.So give S.T back to them again as new starters..
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Front Page
It is not all that amusing and I am sure if the shoe was on the other foot we would be besieged by a collective outbreak of hissy fits.
Is it really appropriate to call your CEO a gob****e and distribute it to thousands of colleagues.?
It is childish and disrespectful and unfortuntely symptometic of BASSA's style.
It's clearly not enough for them to have their chairman call WW the C word. They still can't raise their level above the gutter.
How do CC put up with it is beyond belief.
Is it really appropriate to call your CEO a gob****e and distribute it to thousands of colleagues.?
It is childish and disrespectful and unfortuntely symptometic of BASSA's style.
It's clearly not enough for them to have their chairman call WW the C word. They still can't raise their level above the gutter.
How do CC put up with it is beyond belief.
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I would reccommend that nobody tries to "Out" the author of this page, or in any way make comments that could be construed as bullying/harassment.
There are people out there determined to take someone down with them. All fora/chatrooms are being searched for posts, the intent being to "down a
pilot".
Be careful out there. Lets not make someone elses problem bring down one of us.
There are people out there determined to take someone down with them. All fora/chatrooms are being searched for posts, the intent being to "down a
pilot".
Be careful out there. Lets not make someone elses problem bring down one of us.
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This is tedious beyond belief. Whilst OUR offers are being eroded by the minute due to the incompetence of BASSA (yes BASSA) we have to put up with even more BASSA driven drivel.
Reargunner, MissM, et al. You seem like intelligent people yet you put faith in an absurd, unsubstantiated comment like this:
It is wrong, to answer your questions Reargunner, because IT IS HEARSAY. End of. Ask him for the evidence. If you dare, because just look at the way he has treated someone on the BASSA forum who DARED to write to BF. This is going beyond appalling. Think about it. He is allowed to believe a "comment" made by a "Senior Manager" to a 3rd party. Yet a cabin crew member is berated for writing to BF for clarification on the matter. Absolutely unbelievable.
And now, time, effort and money is being spent on yet another spoof website. Do you not care how they are spending your money? How they are wasting time? How low they are degrading our community? I do.
BASSA are simply winding people up by creating stuff like this BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE TO OFFER IN DEFENCE OF WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. If they stuck to facts, no-one could possibly support them or their actions, therefore they have to fabricate rubbish in order to get support.
And by talking about it on here, we are simply fanning the flames. We need to stick to the facts of the Industrial Relations issue, before we have no more offers left to discuss.
Reargunner, MissM, et al. You seem like intelligent people yet you put faith in an absurd, unsubstantiated comment like this:
For the record a very senior manager (who would know if it is true) said in Waterside last Friday (not to me but someone very close to me who I trust 100%) that "the pilots have told WW that if the strikers get their full staff travel back then they will withdraw their cooperation in helping break the strike. Nothing more nothing less.
And now, time, effort and money is being spent on yet another spoof website. Do you not care how they are spending your money? How they are wasting time? How low they are degrading our community? I do.
BASSA are simply winding people up by creating stuff like this BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO FACTUAL EVIDENCE TO OFFER IN DEFENCE OF WHAT THEY HAVE DONE. If they stuck to facts, no-one could possibly support them or their actions, therefore they have to fabricate rubbish in order to get support.
And by talking about it on here, we are simply fanning the flames. We need to stick to the facts of the Industrial Relations issue, before we have no more offers left to discuss.
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From what I have read on the net, the accepted profit margins for legacy carriers is around 5%. BA have exceeded this more times than not in the last 15 years, when the industry has suffered from 09/11 and the credit crunch.
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Do you think it's acceptable to continue to make legacy carrier profit levels when the competition are now making far more money, which means more money to invest in their products and grow their businesses as at our expense? Times change. Do you not think BA should move with them?
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Do you think it's acceptable to continue to make legacy carrier profit levels when the competition are now making far more money, which means more money to invest in their products and grow their businesses as at our expense? Times change. Do you not think BA should move with them?
Easyjet have flown more passengers than BA over the last four years with a smaller turnover, but have also have made less money as a figure and a percentage profit that has reduced as they have grown. The same with Ryan, although Ryan's figures appear to be better.
But I am out of my depth now and these are my fag packet calculations based on these internet sources (easyjet.com, ryanair.com and wiki), so feel free to rip them apart.
Last edited by Litebulbs; 27th Apr 2010 at 14:33.
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JayPee28bpr
Well, it only took one post to see errors in mine!
I was reading this -
The Bottom Line On Margins
as a reference to 5% and it is only one person's opinion and a debating point. As I have said, it was simplistic calculations on numbers from company websites and wiki.
I was reading this -
The Bottom Line On Margins
as a reference to 5% and it is only one person's opinion and a debating point. As I have said, it was simplistic calculations on numbers from company websites and wiki.
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jayPee28bpr
Thanks for the info on the IATA site.
This is interesting with regard to premium traffic -
http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/Documen...nitorJan10.pdf
especially -
A robust rise in world trade seems to be driving the upturn in premium passengers, which is largely business travel. It now looks as though the recession in premium travel has been cyclical rather than a permanent fall. Economy travel is also likely to be benefiting from the return of business travel.
This is interesting with regard to premium traffic -
http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/Documen...nitorJan10.pdf
especially -
A robust rise in world trade seems to be driving the upturn in premium passengers, which is largely business travel. It now looks as though the recession in premium travel has been cyclical rather than a permanent fall. Economy travel is also likely to be benefiting from the return of business travel.
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UNITE's "strong recommendation" to reject BA offer
Cabin crew urged to reject BA offer - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent
Cabin crew urged to reject BA offer - News & Advice, Travel - The Independent
British Airways cabin crew are to be urged to reject an offer aimed at ending their long-running dispute over jobs and working practices after talks ended without agreement, it was revealed today.
Unite said it will ballot its 12,000 members on the offer, with a "strong recommendation" to reject, raising the threat of fresh industrial action.
Unite said it would not set any fresh strike dates before the ballot result was known, but stressed it remained in dispute with the airline, which has lost tens of millions of pounds in recent weeks because of the industrial action and the grounding of flights due to the Icelandic volcanic ash cloud.
The union said BA was insisting on taking "vindictive" disciplinary action against more than 50 union members as a result of the strikes and was refusing to restore travel perks taken away from those who took part in the industrial action.
Officials accused BA of not operating in the spirit of seeking an agreement, adding that the ballot result was expected before next week's General Election.
Tony Woodley, Unite's joint leader, said: "It is disappointing that talks with the company have concluded without producing an agreement we can recommend to cabin crew.
"However the blame for this rests exclusively with an intransigent management which is determined to attack trade unions and persecute its well-supported, lawful strike action.
"This represents a major failure of industrial statesmanship on the company's part."
BA said the cost of the strikes were estimated at between £40 million and £45 million.
The airline put in place contingency plans to minimise disruption, including leasing aircraft and crew from other firms.
Unite said it will ballot its 12,000 members on the offer, with a "strong recommendation" to reject, raising the threat of fresh industrial action.
Unite said it would not set any fresh strike dates before the ballot result was known, but stressed it remained in dispute with the airline, which has lost tens of millions of pounds in recent weeks because of the industrial action and the grounding of flights due to the Icelandic volcanic ash cloud.
The union said BA was insisting on taking "vindictive" disciplinary action against more than 50 union members as a result of the strikes and was refusing to restore travel perks taken away from those who took part in the industrial action.
Officials accused BA of not operating in the spirit of seeking an agreement, adding that the ballot result was expected before next week's General Election.
Tony Woodley, Unite's joint leader, said: "It is disappointing that talks with the company have concluded without producing an agreement we can recommend to cabin crew.
"However the blame for this rests exclusively with an intransigent management which is determined to attack trade unions and persecute its well-supported, lawful strike action.
"This represents a major failure of industrial statesmanship on the company's part."
BA said the cost of the strikes were estimated at between £40 million and £45 million.
The airline put in place contingency plans to minimise disruption, including leasing aircraft and crew from other firms.
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Problem is now that UNITE/BASSA claim 2000-3000 crew went on strike, that leaves circa 10,000-11,000 who didn't. Are these people likely to support further industrial unrest?
Both UNITE and BASSA have not delivered their promise to crew who have lost their staff travel as a result of going on strike. Even their legal team are not even sure which court to put the action in, with any legal action taking 18 months to 2 years to settle, its going to be a long time and costly. Is that a battle UNITE want to fund?
Added to that some crew have now been without pay and/or allowances for a very long time (snow in December again in January, strikes, and the ash cloud), will they be able to continue to strike?
UNITE officials are deserting the cause as quickly as they can be reassigned to other areas.
Some are viewing it that cabin crew are being hung out to dry.
When UNITE say they are going to ballot their members, is this a proper postal ballot or an online one?
Both UNITE and BASSA have not delivered their promise to crew who have lost their staff travel as a result of going on strike. Even their legal team are not even sure which court to put the action in, with any legal action taking 18 months to 2 years to settle, its going to be a long time and costly. Is that a battle UNITE want to fund?
Added to that some crew have now been without pay and/or allowances for a very long time (snow in December again in January, strikes, and the ash cloud), will they be able to continue to strike?
UNITE officials are deserting the cause as quickly as they can be reassigned to other areas.
Some are viewing it that cabin crew are being hung out to dry.
When UNITE say they are going to ballot their members, is this a proper postal ballot or an online one?
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@ Litebulbs - a rise in business travel in Asia and LatAm is a good thing. Unfortunately BA have no exposure to intra-Asia routes and a single intra-LatAm routes. There's a global recovery beginning but not in our markets.
And there was me thinking the disciplinary action was a result of the individuals abusive or threatening behaviour towards their colleagues, or their breach of contractual requirements not to talk to the media. No, apparently is a result of the strikes.
The union said BA was insisting on taking "vindictive" disciplinary action against more than 50 union members as a result of the strikes and was refusing to restore travel perks taken away from those who took part in the industrial action.
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Be careful for what you wish for....
If BASSA go on strike again, BA will redeploy the VCC plan again. The strike (likely to be indefinite) will probably be as or less effective than prior and will collapse sooner or later. Then BA will impose much worse conditions than are being proposed now. Result: within five years most current crew will have left and BA will have a mainly New Contract Workforce in the Cabin.
BA (WW long since departed and beyond caring) will have achieved way more than they ever hoped for last year and honest, decent, hardworking CC will have lost careers they love. For what? Two nights in a GLA hotel due diversion? Keeping someone in their office on a jumbo? Be careful for what you wish for....
BA (WW long since departed and beyond caring) will have achieved way more than they ever hoped for last year and honest, decent, hardworking CC will have lost careers they love. For what? Two nights in a GLA hotel due diversion? Keeping someone in their office on a jumbo? Be careful for what you wish for....