British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[ns68]

Morning wimberstum

In general business people don't book short haul club for the differences it brings on-board. The slight convienience of getting on last and off first are small plusses however not the main reason.

Ticket flexibility is the major reason for booking corporate club. That and lounge access. Not the 'hot meal' onboard or a pack of (no longer available ) macadamia nuts.

Ask almost any SH pax and they don't really care about the club flight for an hour or two.

LH is, obviously, totally different.

You can't possibly be crew!!or maybe you simply never worked as a Eurofleet crew member..
They DO want and they DO expect a better product,even on a 30 minutes Paris flight.It's not very wise to generalise like that. If only you could see it with your eyes you wouldn't even think of confuting that.
This is indeed where I think management doesn't work well with us.They tend not to listen and believe they know it all.
Am sure that on our surveys etc,passenger might prioritize an ontime departure than a hotmeal and some nuts but when on board it is a very different matter.It is those little things that I have had most complaints for. Don't underestimate our passengers. They know what they want and what they should get for the price they pay.They just don't see how an hot towel and a pack of nuts could have made such a big difference. Am a very glad that from where you are you think they are not too bothered.. it is something for you not to worry about I suppose..

[malcolmf]

on a flight the other day, a non strike day, some one has gone in the bunks and emptied the oxy bottles in the crew bunk area... if you are reading this shame on you.

I'm afraid I can only think of one side of the dispute who would do that.
With TW on his hols Lizanne goodness knows where and Twitter in charge of negotiations, if I was at BFC I would be thinking I may as well go back to work and limit the financial damage.
I have to say I have a great deal of respect (without agreeing with their actions) for the way the strikers have held out, I gave it until midday on the first day until it caved in but have clearly been proved wrong.
You are absolutely right though, we all have to work together once the politicians have moved on and forgotten all the CC. This will require respect from all sides to each other, and a level of forgiveness.

[miyamotomushashi]

on a flight the other day, a non strike day, some one has gone in the bunks and emptied the oxy bottles in the crew bunk area... if you are reading this shame on you.

Shame on you ? Endangering your fellow colleagues' lives in the event of an emergency ..... I think 'shame' is a very very 'mild' reprimand. Hung, drawn and quartered is a better option!
The person(s) who commited that cowardly act should reflect upon his/her/ their action and next time, engage brain before action! What if, just for argument sake, they end up having to resort to using those now empty bottles to save their own cowardly lives ??? Remember, karma is like a boomerang ..... goes around but eventually comes back!!
I find it very very shocking and disturbing that sane adults (I am giving the culprit(s) the benefit of doubt here!) who are entrusted with great responsibilities (yes, I for one, ADMIT that being a cabin crew is not just about pushing a trolley and looking glamourous as depicted by Pam Ann ...... google it for fun )can resort to doing such despicable and heinous acts. Whether you are a striker or not, you DO NOT endanger your colleagues and your OWN lives by doing STUPID, COWARDLY ACTS like the one mentioned above and trying to 'POISON' flight deck crews!!
Gimme 5 minutes with them in a back alley and I will personally introduce them to a nice serving of 'knuckle sandwiches', this is how ANGRY I am now!!!
My apologies for this post but you have to understand that I am very very ANGRY and ashamed that my fellow human being can do things like this to one another!

[dave3]

I cant think of any side that would do such a stuid dangerous thing (funny how emmidiatly some one would think of a side to blame)...the aircraft was away from base so anyone could have done it..not for one moment would I ever imagine that crew striking or not would endager lives in such away....
we realy all need to keep talking, stop the nastiness, and continue the debate .I have to work in a metal tube for hours on end unlike the office workers and the bosses.. we can not simply walk out for fresh air when the talk gets to tough or go home to our homes and re energise.. to ask crew not to talk about this whilst at work is completely crazy... this is our lives, this is our future.. I will talk to people with the repect they treat me with, but I will not be silenced when asked my view. Nor is it my intention to offend anyone.

[Chigley]

Dave3:

You clearly do not go onto either BASSA/Crewforum if you are offended by the comments on this forum.....which quite frankly are tame in comparison? However, you are right we should be able to argue our point without getting personal.

I have been opposed to this strike from the very beginning and my opinion has not altered. I do hope that we can all respect each others differences when we are working together again? I for one will not tolerate any kind of bullying or intimidation from anyone on my flights whether they went on strike or not. And if it reassures you to know, I think you will find that all crew that came in to work throughout the strike will be of the same mindset.

[Slickster]

I cant think of any side that would do such a stuid dangerous thing (funny how emmidiatly some one would think of a side to blame)

Dave3,

Regrettably, these things are happening. There have been numerous cases of Oxy bottles being found discharged, and safety equipment being found vandalised. One of the worst was a used tampon being hidden in the flight deck. The poor sod who found it, during his security checks, has had to undergo an AIDS test.

Now, I leave it for all on here to wonder which side of the fence the perpetrators of these acts might sit. It's bizarre behaviour, though, as they will have no idea who their actions are going to affect. It could be one of their best mates, partner, or even themselves. Absolute idiots.

[dave3]

Chigley, I have spoken to stikers and non strikers... I think the fighting talk in the brief "bullying will not be tolerated....." sets a bad tone for the flights.. Yes we are aware that some strikers and non strikers will be hot headed but lets deal with that if and when it happens... Both sides feel they are in the right... well if we dont talk to each other we never know what we can learn.. for the record yes I do go on the Bassa site and yes I have posted on the bassa site that some of the comments are nasty... Everyone needs to understand that in a democracy we have the right to a different view... we must respect that.. As I said I will gladly talk to anyone on my flights about such an important issue...

[ns68]

Flexibility of ticket is prime for business. Having a slightly larger convertable seat and a hot meal isn't primary. Being able to short change your ticket and rebook plus the reassurance that you can refund/rebook your ticket late in the event of circumstance change is primary.

So few people care about 'club' the inflight product on a short, short haul flight.

Personally I couldn't care less where I sit on SH. Long Haul, as a distinctly seperate product makes a huge difference.

Perhaps you should take the blinkers off and see SH for what it really is, a feeder for LH. Remeber that we in SH don't get attributed much ticket revenue (about £10 I believe) per LH connecting pax. That should give you a clue as to where the pecking order is.

Yes, I do fly SH.

Try and say that on a Milan, Nice, Geneva, Moscow, Athens or Tripoli flight! Tell them their are on a feeder flight for LH so they shouldn't expect much..Try and tell them that really a Club Europe ticket is much more for flexibility than anything else. Tell them about where the pecking order is. YOU TELL THEM,because I won't.I will do my best never to make them fell that way actually.

So few people care about 'club' the inflight product on a short, short haul flight.

You don't know our passengers at all!

Personally I couldn't care less where I sit on SH. Long Haul, as a distinctly seperate product makes a huge difference.

I don't mind either,but they do when they pay big prices.

Yes, I do fly SH

You might fly SH but I don't think you are a crew member,you would know better than this.MUCH MUCH better!

[malcolmf]

Dave3

I cant think of any side that would do such a stuid dangerous thing (funny how emmidiatly some one would think of a side to blame)

I have seen first hand how scared working crew have been of striking crew and have been very close to aircraft being handed over with galleys in a mess, bars incorrectly sealed and paperwork done incorrectly. There is absolutely no reason for working crews to have done that unless they are in fact strikers who have returned to work out of necessity.
P.S in my previous I labeled DS as Tw*tter and the forum has replaced it as PPrune!

[the flying nunn]

dave 3

your comments are some of the most heartening I have read on any forum since this dispute has begun. I can assure you that you are not the only one that hopes for a mature and respectful atmosphere on board when we are all back next week. I disagree with you that this forum has become nasty, it reads like a Sunday hymn sheet in comparison to crew forum and BASSA forum. I have read the odd post on the other forums asking for respect for all involved but the response is always the same. Who can forget the comment on the BASSA forum about letting scabs burn at the back of a burning aircraft if the situation should arise. It does worry me that some of the posters on the other forums are determined to extract revenge at any price from the people that went in. I hope you reported the incident with the oxygen bottles, this has been happening since long before the strikes began.

[windows69]

Can we also not forget the case of a manager assaulting a cabin crew member in front of his 80 year old mother. I will be carrying my safecall card as well because frankly being a striker puts me in a vunerable position. We all know that if i so much as look at someone in a way they perceive to be a dirty look i will be suspended and the company will instantly take the side of the person that reports me. As far as the case of the oxygen bottles ,well im astounded, how is this backing BA??? Also a facebook comment by a pilot describing Nigeria as a toilet and making vile comments about our customers has really shocked the strikers. We may all have different opinions on this strike , but some of the innacuracies i read on here are astounding. Lizanne has been at Bedfont every single day for those enquiring about her whereabouts. A pilot on my last trip came into the galley and told me of stories that the bus that went up to the High Court , he claimed the people on board were singing derogatory comments about loaders and strikebreakers. To clear this up i was on this bus and the whole journey was filmed and at no point did this ever happen. Apparently the operation whilst we strike is robust, and you are all doing fine without us , so i wonder why many of you seem so angered by our democratic right to take industrial action. Surely you have nothing to be concerned about so why discuss it anymore? We are not hooligans or thugs and from the few cases described above , if anyone needs protection at work it is us.

[ns68]

[QUOTE]

There is absolutely no reason for working crews

After reading the comments on this forum, and all the bad wishing,I wouldn't blame any side..They are as bad as each other unfortunately.

Yesterday,I think I was asked why I thought management wasn't doing the right job..I gave my points but I understand if people didn't agree with those

BUT,

If there is a massive massive failure from the management is this: THEY DIVIDED A WORKFORCE..THAT IS THE BIGGEST BIGGEST FAILURE OF ALL.ONCE YOU DIVIDE YOUR WORKFORCE YOU HAVE FAILED COMPLETELY.

[dave3]

malcolmf would you agree that we all need to talk, and try and stop this blame culture.. we all have storys from both sides but crew and pilots carrying on being nasty and vindictive will help no one on board

[ns68]

Windows69

if anyone needs protection at work it is us.

We need protection from Carmen as well, have you thought already about how bad our rosters are going to be????? It is going to be a nightmare!

Any request of annual leave etc,will be a big resounding NO!

[LD12986]

If there is a massive massive failure from the management is this: THEY DIVIDED A WORKFORCE..THAT IS THE BIGGEST BIGGEST FAILURE OF ALL.ONCE YOU DIVIDE YOUR WORKFORCE YOU HAVE FAILED COMPLETELY.

It was BASSA and Unite that picked this battle. Not BA. It was BASSA and Unite that initiated the ballots for industrial action and it was cabin crew that gave BASSA and Unite the mandate to wreak absolute havoc with it. It is BASSA that has been issuing all the anti-pilot/management bile and you can't blame BA for doing all that it can to mitigate the impact of the strikes.

You chose to dig youselves into the massive hole you now find yourselves in.

If anything, the company has been very patient and very tolerant of some very petulant behaviour. You should consider yourselves very lucky the company has staved off one of the "nuclear" options. If it had, this would have all been dealt with 9 months ago.

[dave3]

LD moving forward with posts like yours is going to be imposible.. crew voted for strike action by an over whelming percentage.. then some crew decided that although they voted yes they would go into work.. now lets not look back we are in a stale mate... neither side moving...this is a democratic country... I am striking for my beliefs you are obviously not. that doesnt mean we can not talk and should hate each other..we need to stop looking back and try and work out how both sides in this can be working together again... left or right we need to talk.

[ns68]

It was BASSA and Unite that picked this battle. Not BA. It was BASSA and Unite that initiated the ballots for industrial action and it was cabin crew that gave BASSA and Unite the mandate to wreak absolute havoc with it. It is BASSA that has been issuing all the anti-pilot/management bile and you can't blame BA for doing all that it can to mitigate the impact of the strikes.

it's not unite that needs to make sure the workforce is happy.It is the company's responsability. so it is most definitely the management failure!I am not blaming Ba for trying to mitigate the impact of the strike..previous to the strike other dept were fed infos as cc the only dept not having taken cuts..how many times I have heard this..Well,nobody remembers this but it wasn't even 3 years ago,that we were getting ready for a strike,because of cost cuts.They wanted us on the hourly rate and through negotiations we ended up having a cut here and there and the promise for better relations with the union.I remember people saying we had been sold by the union and a general feeling of unhappiness but hey! So we have already been targeted then..it 's a vicious circle under this management.It's continuos! And from what I have heard it was what happened at Air Lingus. It was never stopping. And in the meantime the people at the top earn more and more.If you do a quick research,about 10 years ago a CEO of any company was earning 38 times what its employee did.As of today it is 80 times. I know it is not just BA, but we are lucky to have the chance to fight against this and to try and keep our t&c-not many people have this- why so many see it as so wrong?

[License to Fly]

Originally Posted by windows69

Apparently the operation whilst we strike is robust, and you are all doing fine without us , so i wonder why many of you seem so angered by our democratic right to take industrial action.

So where do I start . Many people are angered by the loss of money from their salaries (good trips being cancelled as the schedule is reduced), by the comtempt you have for BA passengers (who after all pay our wages) and mostly by how some of the strikers behave when they are working on a BA aircraft intimidating non strikers with their views. This is all fact.

[malcolmf]

malcolmf would you agree that we all need to talk, and try and stop this blame culture.. we all have storys from both sides but crew and pilots carrying on being nasty and vindictive will help no one on board

Dave3
Absolutely, I have tried to always look after my crews from both sides, and have treated them all as individuals and with respect. I have had discussions about the situation with strikers and non strikers in a perfectly amicable way. In fact I'm not convinced that it has been a good idea to just not talk about it at all, maybe we wouldn't have got into this situation.
At the end of the day we have to run a safe operation for all our sakes and my focus is totally on that and messing about with the aircraft safety equipment is completely unacceptable from whichever side it happens.
You sound to me as though you will be fine, all the disciplinaries for "strange looks" I don't believe resulted in any serious sanctions. I hope to fly with you soon, you will probably be able to guess who I am!

[dave3]

malcolmf I look forward to flying with you and a good chat and debate...
I would just like to say I am a base closure always been crew did a stint at LHR in 98 on EF.. I have been with the company for 27years... I remember a policitian saying "get on your bikes and find some work" well I get in my car and drive 4hours ew to get to my work.. work I love and pax and crew I care so much about... It costs me approx £500 to get to work each month with hotels sometimes... for me I could not afford the new contract it would mean I could not aford to get to work.. so we all have stories.. we all have different situations.. we all need to talk Malcolmf thank you for your balanced reply x