British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: london
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Staff Forum 12/5
Hiya,
For those interested, who havent heard yet, WW is holding another Staff Forum tomorrow at WTS for all comers, first come first seated.
Will be also broadcast as per previous ones.
For those BASSA believers, why not go down there and ask him some direct questions yourselves?
There will be a Colleague Forum hosted by Willie Walsh, tomorrow, May 12 from 14.00 to 15.00 in the Waterside Theatre to provide an update on the industrial relations situation.
Attendance at this forum will be on a first come, first served basis.
This forum will be broadcast to a limited number of other UK/worldwide locations via Webex and via TV channels (IPTV) around the Heathrow campus. For locations not listed below, the local communications team will advise locally how colleagues can view the forum.
For colleagues who are unable to attend or watch the forum, please refer to the intranet on Thursday when you will be able to watch highlights of the forum.
Broadcast of Colleague Forum Locations
Heathrow UK Locations Overseas Locations Cargo - Ascentis
BACE at Hayes
Boadicea House via IPTV
Cranebank - Cranebank Conference Centre
T5 - Via channel 254 on TVs located below
Waterside - via channel 254 on TVs located below
Glasgow
Newcastle
Manchester
Wales - engineering locations Locations will be communicated via local communications teams
BAATW
For those interested, who havent heard yet, WW is holding another Staff Forum tomorrow at WTS for all comers, first come first seated.
Will be also broadcast as per previous ones.
For those BASSA believers, why not go down there and ask him some direct questions yourselves?
There will be a Colleague Forum hosted by Willie Walsh, tomorrow, May 12 from 14.00 to 15.00 in the Waterside Theatre to provide an update on the industrial relations situation.
Attendance at this forum will be on a first come, first served basis.
This forum will be broadcast to a limited number of other UK/worldwide locations via Webex and via TV channels (IPTV) around the Heathrow campus. For locations not listed below, the local communications team will advise locally how colleagues can view the forum.
For colleagues who are unable to attend or watch the forum, please refer to the intranet on Thursday when you will be able to watch highlights of the forum.
Broadcast of Colleague Forum Locations
Heathrow UK Locations Overseas Locations Cargo - Ascentis
BACE at Hayes
Boadicea House via IPTV
Cranebank - Cranebank Conference Centre
T5 - Via channel 254 on TVs located below
- [*]
Waterside - via channel 254 on TVs located below
- Communal coffee point areas TBC
Glasgow
Newcastle
Manchester
Wales - engineering locations Locations will be communicated via local communications teams
BAATW
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Radio 5 Live with DH
It is much more likely that the first CC caller to the Duncan Holley show was a BASSA plant as she was trotting out the same old rubbish and agreeing with everything DH was saying.
As Tiramasu said, the other CC who called in near the end was indeed articulate and stayed calm despite DH accusation of being a management stooge. The mask suddenly dropped and he became very defensive the second he was challenged.
As Tiramasu said, the other CC who called in near the end was indeed articulate and stayed calm despite DH accusation of being a management stooge. The mask suddenly dropped and he became very defensive the second he was challenged.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I didn't read it, I was read it by my father, who thought it would be hilarious if it wasn't meant seriously. Well, who knows? It really isn't important, but it doesn't help.
A LOT of people are appalled by the behaviour and underhandedness of our union officials and reps. And the disgraceful way they've witheld information from us about deals and offers. These being touted way too late, and days after originally being presented. One in particular I only became aware of last night on this thread.
Sadly for all crew, we should be able to rely on these people if there really is an industrial injustice done. This is not the case here. And we are left with nobody if we ever do need our corner to be fought. And sooner or later, that will happen. It always does. BALPA has had its own issues with the company in the past too.
Looks like we're up the creek without a paddle, and all because of an unnecessary power struggle.
A LOT of people are appalled by the behaviour and underhandedness of our union officials and reps. And the disgraceful way they've witheld information from us about deals and offers. These being touted way too late, and days after originally being presented. One in particular I only became aware of last night on this thread.
Sadly for all crew, we should be able to rely on these people if there really is an industrial injustice done. This is not the case here. And we are left with nobody if we ever do need our corner to be fought. And sooner or later, that will happen. It always does. BALPA has had its own issues with the company in the past too.
Looks like we're up the creek without a paddle, and all because of an unnecessary power struggle.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London uk
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Juan ,
I also know the crew member from PCCC and can say she is not a manager , and to remark on the ' smell of latte ' is just childish !!!
Ladyxxxx ,
thanks for ensuring you noted your post was not for us non-striking crew
.
The atmosphere in CRC was fantastic during the previous strikes and I can honestly say the flight crew were very supportive and realised that not all of us are intent on bringing this company down ..
There are no locks on any doors to keep you at a company you dont like ... if you really hate working that little bit harder ..leave .. and maybe then the rest of us can start to rebuild our great company again !!
I also know the crew member from PCCC and can say she is not a manager , and to remark on the ' smell of latte ' is just childish !!!
Ladyxxxx ,
thanks for ensuring you noted your post was not for us non-striking crew
. The atmosphere in CRC was fantastic during the previous strikes and I can honestly say the flight crew were very supportive and realised that not all of us are intent on bringing this company down ..
There are no locks on any doors to keep you at a company you dont like ... if you really hate working that little bit harder ..leave .. and maybe then the rest of us can start to rebuild our great company again !!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the general election we have to let the officials know who we are before we go in the booth. It's so that one person cannot vote more than once. The electronic system allowed one staff number access to the online ballot page, and the vote was recorded separately with no staff number attached. No one had to bypass reps and subject themselves to intimidation. The individual results were not published. It didn't come up with a list of names saying who voted yes or no for all membership to see. The previous vote for industrial action was made by postal vote, so not even a staff number was on the card. I hope this clarifies.
Controversial, moi?
A previous poster said of Duncan Holley:
What has taking his pension got to do with anything? It is an oft repeated myth that being sacked can result in losing your pension. You don't.
He denied being given a job with Unite, but was smart enough to take his pension before the disciplinary process.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'd also like to say that the result figures are interesting. approx 57% of BASSA members voted for non acceptance,and that's approx 47% of crew in total. Not such an overwhelming majority for membership and not a majority at all for the crew community.
Just read this on BASSA forum.
"81% of 71% of union members would beg to differ Willy!!!!"
Sounds good when you write it like that. But the truth isn't so rosy. Time some people did some urgent maths revision, or BASSA stopped spinning.
Just read this on BASSA forum.
"81% of 71% of union members would beg to differ Willy!!!!"
Sounds good when you write it like that. But the truth isn't so rosy. Time some people did some urgent maths revision, or BASSA stopped spinning.
Last edited by Bridchen; 11th May 2010 at 15:09. Reason: spelling
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is not daft to point out that individual members could be identified by their staff number, otherwise the union could not have ensured that it was indeed a BASSA member. I have not suggested that a list of yes/no voters would be available to all and sundry.
When we vote in the national election we identify ourself to the polling officer, are given a pollng card at random and can not be identified from that by anyone. Admittedly it's not the safest system!!
You are of course correct in saying that the previous ballot was conducted by post which is the only recognised form of legal union balloting.
It begs the question why BASSA chose to avoid that system on this occasion.They themselves called it "a consultative ballot" which has no recognition in law.
M.Mouse
Sorry, but you are mistaken. It is not a myth, check staff regs.
DH himself said he took his pension before the discip process in order to protect himself..
In cases of gross misconduct a company has the right to return the individual's contribution only, without providing a pension and I know fairly recent cases when this was done.
When we vote in the national election we identify ourself to the polling officer, are given a pollng card at random and can not be identified from that by anyone. Admittedly it's not the safest system!!
You are of course correct in saying that the previous ballot was conducted by post which is the only recognised form of legal union balloting.
It begs the question why BASSA chose to avoid that system on this occasion.They themselves called it "a consultative ballot" which has no recognition in law.
M.Mouse
Sorry, but you are mistaken. It is not a myth, check staff regs.
DH himself said he took his pension before the discip process in order to protect himself..
In cases of gross misconduct a company has the right to return the individual's contribution only, without providing a pension and I know fairly recent cases when this was done.
Controversial, moi?
M.Mouse
Sorry, but you are mistaken. It is not a myth, check staff regs.
DH himself said he took his pension before the discip process in order to protect himself..
In cases of gross misconduct a company has the right to return the individual's contribution only, without providing a pension and I know fairly recent cases when this was done.
Sorry, but you are mistaken. It is not a myth, check staff regs.
DH himself said he took his pension before the discip process in order to protect himself..
In cases of gross misconduct a company has the right to return the individual's contribution only, without providing a pension and I know fairly recent cases when this was done.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gr8ballsoffire, I do apologise. I took it from your name that you had gr8tballsoffire. I didn't think that would have such an effect on you, or you'd take it so seriously. 
The postal ballot takes 4 weeks and I suppose that would have taken the result past, or too close to the 12 week deadline before another ballot for industrial action would have to take place. And so on!
No one is identified by this system. No it's not perfect. It just sounded like you were implying that some sort of intimidation could have gone on. I don't believe so, and I wouldn't want any crew members to think that they couldn't make the vote of their choice in the future for fear of that. We must be safe to express our faith or distrust in the union or they won't get the message. We are safe to vote anonymously.
There was a lot of apathy for voting, as some people genuinely don't know who to believe anymore. Approx 3200 BASSA members not voting is not good.
The postal ballot takes 4 weeks and I suppose that would have taken the result past, or too close to the 12 week deadline before another ballot for industrial action would have to take place. And so on!
No one is identified by this system. No it's not perfect. It just sounded like you were implying that some sort of intimidation could have gone on. I don't believe so, and I wouldn't want any crew members to think that they couldn't make the vote of their choice in the future for fear of that. We must be safe to express our faith or distrust in the union or they won't get the message. We are safe to vote anonymously.
There was a lot of apathy for voting, as some people genuinely don't know who to believe anymore. Approx 3200 BASSA members not voting is not good.
Last edited by Bridchen; 11th May 2010 at 15:40. Reason: spelling
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bridchen, am cutting you some slack here because you are new, but I have already said it once on this page and that really should have been enough.
Seems I have to repeat it for you though: do NOT get personal with people here.
Do not as in no, don´t do it, not allowed, not welcome, not as a joke and not ´oops I forgot´ and "Tsssk I thought you could take a joke´.
Just don´t.
Have deleted what you wrote, now please stick to the rules.
flapsforty,
Moderator
Seems I have to repeat it for you though: do NOT get personal with people here.
Do not as in no, don´t do it, not allowed, not welcome, not as a joke and not ´oops I forgot´ and "Tsssk I thought you could take a joke´.
Just don´t.
Have deleted what you wrote, now please stick to the rules.
flapsforty,
Moderator
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
M.Mouse
M.Mouse
I believe you will find it under dismissal for gross misconduct.
DH may be a selfserving union dinausaur, but he is not stupid and took the precaution to ensure he retained his pension rights.
An ex-colleague did the same when he was in trouble and resigned.
But as you quite rightly say, this has nothing to do with the IA. I was simply recounting the radio appearance of your esteemed leader.
Bridchen,
Reference to my forum name bears no relation to the subject and the implication is insulting. You really need to pay attention to flapsforty.
Keep to the issues!!!
I believe you will find it under dismissal for gross misconduct.
DH may be a selfserving union dinausaur, but he is not stupid and took the precaution to ensure he retained his pension rights.
An ex-colleague did the same when he was in trouble and resigned.
But as you quite rightly say, this has nothing to do with the IA. I was simply recounting the radio appearance of your esteemed leader.
Bridchen,
Reference to my forum name bears no relation to the subject and the implication is insulting. You really need to pay attention to flapsforty.
Keep to the issues!!!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I do agree with you both, actually, Gr8ballsoffire.I'm afraid I was rather coloured by your post number 2532 where you made a personal comment about some cabin crew being lemmings and suggested that some people on this forum should join them. Actually, "the rest of the lemmings" therefore implying that some of us are.
We should stick to the issues, and that is why I'm here. I am actually on your side, but never mind, then.
We should stick to the issues, and that is why I'm here. I am actually on your side, but never mind, then.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 12 week rule
Just going back to the 12 week rule. Clarification if someone can please:-
Beyond 12 weeks (after 12th Jun), Bassa members can continue to hold strikes, however, their level of protection diminishes.
Does this mean, that WW can terminate employment of those who continue to go on strike and even those have have been on strike or does he have to have a more valid reason? Sorry to keep hashing over it. It seems such a grey area.
Either way, I certainly would not like to be in the shoes of any strikers right now as Bassa have not made any attempt to broach this serious topic with its members, so as usual, I don't think they actually know what their plan is?
Also, as ST was offered back with a start date of 1st Oct and that element of the offer has been rejected, does this now mean bye bye to ST forever no matter what the outcome?
Beyond 12 weeks (after 12th Jun), Bassa members can continue to hold strikes, however, their level of protection diminishes.
Does this mean, that WW can terminate employment of those who continue to go on strike and even those have have been on strike or does he have to have a more valid reason? Sorry to keep hashing over it. It seems such a grey area.
Either way, I certainly would not like to be in the shoes of any strikers right now as Bassa have not made any attempt to broach this serious topic with its members, so as usual, I don't think they actually know what their plan is?
Also, as ST was offered back with a start date of 1st Oct and that element of the offer has been rejected, does this now mean bye bye to ST forever no matter what the outcome?
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't believe there is any protection after 12 weeks from what was posted before. I don't know if a new ballot would cover it. The last online one was only about acceptance of the offer and the last ballot for IA still stood. Maybe someone else can confirm.
I believe the offer for reinstated terms of st is still on the table, but the union is rejecting the offer mainly on that and the sacked membership issues. The rest of the issues seem to be a bit cloudy and not making much sense.
I believe the offer for reinstated terms of st is still on the table, but the union is rejecting the offer mainly on that and the sacked membership issues. The rest of the issues seem to be a bit cloudy and not making much sense.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If BA can prove that any new ballot about a different issue is intrinsicly link to the first ballot, then it is illegal and striking members can be dismissed. People who have been on strike before the 12 week deadline and then declare that they are no longer on strike after the 12 weeks are protected by law.
Have a browse at this.
Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (c. 52)
It is sort of in plain English which is why I could understand it
Have a browse at this.
Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992 (c. 52)
It is sort of in plain English which is why I could understand it
Last edited by swalesboy; 11th May 2010 at 18:20.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: England
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Get Smart,
I thought WW was quite clear in his update e-mail to employees - the offer to reinstate ST (with adjusted DOJ) remains on the table. However, it will be whipped away quick smart if this strike goes ahead as planned...
Also, as ST was offered back with a start date of 1st Oct and that element of the offer has been rejected, does this now mean bye bye to ST forever no matter what the outcome?
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With regard to the Radio 5 Live interview with Duncan Holley, I thought he came across as totally balanced and very professional. When the 'crew member' spoke and said she belonged to PCCC I' like Duncan and many others' straight awat smelt a setup by BA...in fact could even smell the Latte as she spoke
I can absolutely assure you that you are completely wrong in your assumtion. I know the person from PCCC personally, and she is definitely not a management plant, or part of a set up by BA, just someone who is passionately concerned about where BASSA has taken us, and wants a change of tack.
That she, and her fellow founding members of PCCC can't go public, is purely down to the fact that they have to work with all crew day to day, and know that it's likely their life will be made hell, and their job made all but impossible by making themselves known at this time.
I know you probably won't believe me, and you'll assume I'm just some management plant too; there's nothing I can say here that can prove anything to you, but a persistent belief in BASSA's scaremongering and conspiracy theorising is why we're here in this mess and I just hope that in the passage of time this will become clear to all but the most blinkered of BASSA's loyal footsoldiers.