British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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So why are they striking for staff travel then?
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posted by ns68
It will be a very slow recovery..When you hear the CEO of an airline saying something along the line that it will take whatever it takes to get where he wants and to get what he wants and he is not going to back down ever, it might excite investors but it scares normal people like friend and family around me into booking a ticket.
It will be a very slow recovery..When you hear the CEO of an airline saying something along the line that it will take whatever it takes to get where he wants and to get what he wants and he is not going to back down ever, it might excite investors but it scares normal people like friend and family around me into booking a ticket.
My link yesterday was full of middle class old school Brits on a cruise, 100 of them in ET on both outbound and return flights. They are customers who love BA and regularly fly with us, and all were grateful saying 'thank you for saving our holiday.' Willie Walsh has been extremely clever in ensuring the right schedule and and the right flights operated. These customers will not forget BA and Willie Walsh. Some of them have written to him personally to that effect and they will remain loyal to BA and tell their friends about us. Our schedule is also one of the reasons people fly with us.
I think recovery will be much quicker than you think. I'm being bombarded with friends asking me for hotline deals.
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Tiramisu,I don't know what to say..I am glad you are getting all the goods!It's great that people are still loyal to us even after all that has happened even excluding the strike.You should know well about the complains we get on those 767.. and how many club passengers felt left down by the changes over the past year.The strike just made it worst I suppose. But I repeat,for mine and your future welfare I prefer to believe your version of things.
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NS68
The union offer to suspend the strike at the last minute was a cynical PR exercise in front of the cameras.
TW knew full well the damage had already been done and BA had a contingency plan in place which would have been difficult and expensive to bring to a sudden halt.
He also knew what Willie's response would be. He was simply trying to garner some public support. He failed miserably, but hey you guys fell for it, so not a total failure.
The union offer to suspend the strike at the last minute was a cynical PR exercise in front of the cameras.
TW knew full well the damage had already been done and BA had a contingency plan in place which would have been difficult and expensive to bring to a sudden halt.
He also knew what Willie's response would be. He was simply trying to garner some public support. He failed miserably, but hey you guys fell for it, so not a total failure.
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He was simply trying to garner some public support. He failed miserably, but hey you guys fell for it, so not a total failure.
You also mentioned we were mislead.
I read the offer myself and considered a few points good but I thought there were a lot of gaps to be filled before considering it a fair deal.-am on eurofleet by the way-I thought the Union could have negotiated a thing here and there..and apparently there were some progress so am still hopeful!-and not because the union says it,but just because I want to be.
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BASSA update.
No mention of cakes, samosas or hamburgers. DH had a more pressing engagement!!
What a pity.
I'll give it to them though, they are pretty creative. Another heartwarming little ode.
Tellingly, no mention of the elusive Len Mcluskey's visit.
No mention of cakes, samosas or hamburgers. DH had a more pressing engagement!!
What a pity.
I'll give it to them though, they are pretty creative. Another heartwarming little ode.
Tellingly, no mention of the elusive Len Mcluskey's visit.
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NS68
Fair enough...you say you were not mislead. Did you know about the origininal offer which included additional ST tickets and shares? The offer that was never put to the membership.
Someone has posted the full details further back, if you want to look for it.
You will never have a better offer now....it's gone!!
Going back to your wish for a harmonious working life, unfortunately BASSA have put paid to that a long time ago by managing to alienate each and evey department in BA as well the bullying and harrasment of anyone with a differering view to theirs.
Given time wounds WILL heal, but not until the loonies that inhabit the militant wing of BASSA have long gone.
Fair enough...you say you were not mislead. Did you know about the origininal offer which included additional ST tickets and shares? The offer that was never put to the membership.
Someone has posted the full details further back, if you want to look for it.
You will never have a better offer now....it's gone!!
Going back to your wish for a harmonious working life, unfortunately BASSA have put paid to that a long time ago by managing to alienate each and evey department in BA as well the bullying and harrasment of anyone with a differering view to theirs.
Given time wounds WILL heal, but not until the loonies that inhabit the militant wing of BASSA have long gone.
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WW
Thanks for that...I understood that was yesterday. My mistake.
I am sure comrade McCluskey will thank you all for the hardship you have all faced and to carry on the good fight and than b...er off to carry on with his campaign for the leadership.
Go brother!!
Thanks for that...I understood that was yesterday. My mistake.
I am sure comrade McCluskey will thank you all for the hardship you have all faced and to carry on the good fight and than b...er off to carry on with his campaign for the leadership.
Go brother!!
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I'm a vcc and have been sent home 3 times in the last 5 days. So, from what I've seen, this strike is as broken as BASSA's promises....ummmm....they keep changing them,,,but I'm trying to keep track.
Please BASSA, tell your membership what was on the table LAST YEAR and THIS YEAR before you ask them to vote again?
Please BASSA CC, I know you have been told to ignore the company "spin" (the real deals have been on the intranet), but, on day 1 of IA when BASSA said planes were parked in Cardiff, doing ciruits at LHR (why not check that each reg number was different?), and only 27/28 CC broke the strike (sorry I can't remember the exact numbers, I was in the CRC with 100s of regular CC), then I feel it is your Union's duty to give you the FACTS?
After all,you pay for their subs?
Also, what right does DH have to play in the future of the BASSA members if he is not an employee of BA? He hasnothing to lose except IMHO a big job in UNITE!!
I have the utmost respect for the majority of CC,but I am so worried that the majority will suffer if the BASSA membership is missled?/miss-informed?
Also, I am interested in HOW MANY MEMBERS of BA are BASSA as it seems a secret and will impact any future IA balloting?
Good luck, and I hopefor a peacefull ending to this ugly dispute
Please BASSA, tell your membership what was on the table LAST YEAR and THIS YEAR before you ask them to vote again?
Please BASSA CC, I know you have been told to ignore the company "spin" (the real deals have been on the intranet), but, on day 1 of IA when BASSA said planes were parked in Cardiff, doing ciruits at LHR (why not check that each reg number was different?), and only 27/28 CC broke the strike (sorry I can't remember the exact numbers, I was in the CRC with 100s of regular CC), then I feel it is your Union's duty to give you the FACTS?
After all,you pay for their subs?
Also, what right does DH have to play in the future of the BASSA members if he is not an employee of BA? He hasnothing to lose except IMHO a big job in UNITE!!
I have the utmost respect for the majority of CC,but I am so worried that the majority will suffer if the BASSA membership is missled?/miss-informed?
Also, I am interested in HOW MANY MEMBERS of BA are BASSA as it seems a secret and will impact any future IA balloting?
Good luck, and I hopefor a peacefull ending to this ugly dispute
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Juan O
If the Union were calling Walsh a 'saint', I suspect you would be doing the same. How is he a bully ? He fronts the Airline on behalf of the staff and the shareholders. No one else (except cc) is calling him a bully. He made a very reasonable offer to cc which the union rejected. I would be aiming my anger at the union, not Walsh. They completely missed the boat when they had the best possible deal already on the table. Now, the whole thing is about Staff Travel, and discips. How did that happen ? Simple, a clueless union that has somehow managed to pull the wool over peoples eyes. I would have thought that reading DH's daily ramblings would be enough to make even the staunchest supporters of the strike take a step back and think about where this all going.
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Help to clarify please
NS68:
Sorry but I am confused... I keep on hearing about concerns over the fact that NF will have separate routes and won't be mixed with the main crew.... my understanding from one of Willie's forums is that the only reason the proposal is for NF to be kept separated, and a set of routes fully allocated to NF, was in response to concerns raised by the Union on having crew with different contracts (one at much lower basic pay) working together and the tension that would potentially create, especially towards to 'old contract' crew.
It now looks like crew are seeing the proposal of keeping the NF separated as a mean for BA to starve them of the more lucrative trips.
Please if my understanding is wrong, and it is not true that the Union requested for NF to be kept separated could somebody let me know, and shed some light on the background.
Reading this thread I just feel that NF jumped from something that was being negotiated into this monster, causing distress to a whole community that seem to forget that Unite could negotiate how it is implemented, but my (limited) understanding is that Unite got stuck into the a) imposition and b) not wanted NF at all and just offering a temporary solution.
I am trying to take distance from the inflammatory comments and see the so called 'facts' in this dispute. After reading for months and falling myself victim of the rash to the keyboard as I am so pi***d off I need to have a rant, I have been trying to take a step back and see both sides.
I think I can understand where BA is coming from, might not endorse everything it does but overall I feel it is clear why WW is taking this stand, I also think I can understand the individual circumstances of both crew going on strike, those voting YES but coming to work, and those that have always intended to come to work.
It is however really difficult to see where the union is coming from, what they are trying to achieve and why! (the real why not the propaganda).
And among all the confusing statements I read on here, the issue on NF seems to be one of the sticking points for something that the union itself requested ???
I still will never and never believe that having a NF that you will never fly with and never get to know reporting in the same building as you it's a recipe for a successful airline
It now looks like crew are seeing the proposal of keeping the NF separated as a mean for BA to starve them of the more lucrative trips.
Please if my understanding is wrong, and it is not true that the Union requested for NF to be kept separated could somebody let me know, and shed some light on the background.
Reading this thread I just feel that NF jumped from something that was being negotiated into this monster, causing distress to a whole community that seem to forget that Unite could negotiate how it is implemented, but my (limited) understanding is that Unite got stuck into the a) imposition and b) not wanted NF at all and just offering a temporary solution.
I am trying to take distance from the inflammatory comments and see the so called 'facts' in this dispute. After reading for months and falling myself victim of the rash to the keyboard as I am so pi***d off I need to have a rant, I have been trying to take a step back and see both sides.
I think I can understand where BA is coming from, might not endorse everything it does but overall I feel it is clear why WW is taking this stand, I also think I can understand the individual circumstances of both crew going on strike, those voting YES but coming to work, and those that have always intended to come to work.
It is however really difficult to see where the union is coming from, what they are trying to achieve and why! (the real why not the propaganda).
And among all the confusing statements I read on here, the issue on NF seems to be one of the sticking points for something that the union itself requested ???
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CL,
You are correct. The Company did offer to combine both contracts. The issue was more about rest downroute than pay however. We do of course already have post '97 crew flying with old contract crew now. BASSA did not want to vary their current agreements to enable NF to work alongside existing crew, hence why they have been kept seperate.
So the answer is, they don't want new fleet integrated, but yes you've guessed it, they also don't want it in a seperate form either!
The problem for BASSA members is that despite all the hot air and rhetoric, BASSA have actually accepted New Fleet as a seperate entity, although of course they have never formally asked their members about any of this. Some things never change!
You are correct. The Company did offer to combine both contracts. The issue was more about rest downroute than pay however. We do of course already have post '97 crew flying with old contract crew now. BASSA did not want to vary their current agreements to enable NF to work alongside existing crew, hence why they have been kept seperate.
So the answer is, they don't want new fleet integrated, but yes you've guessed it, they also don't want it in a seperate form either!
The problem for BASSA members is that despite all the hot air and rhetoric, BASSA have actually accepted New Fleet as a seperate entity, although of course they have never formally asked their members about any of this. Some things never change!
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This was part of my post from 22nd March!
There is absolutely no way there is ever going to be a negotiated settlement now because BASSA can't agree to a deal without staff travel being reinstated and Willie is NEVER going to do that. Its not just a disagreement now about the finances, it cuts much deeper than that, which is why this will run and run until individual crew have run out of energy and money. Quite what Willie will do with the striking crew is still unclear, but if I were them I'd be very very worried by now'.
It will be interesting to see what master plan 'Lenny' comes up with at 13:00 today. I'm execting Unite to use some very generic and wishy washy wording about the next reason to ballot. Anything else will put them at great risk of another visit to the high court.
It will be interesting whether Willie lets them run another ballot to see how much their support has diminished, or whether he goes straight to court before the ballot is even dispatched to try to stop it. There are pros and cons either way I think.
Looking beyond the ballot wording, I'm certain Willie has another plan to bring this to a close. I suspect this will be a two-pronged approach of increasing the programme significantly during any other action in late July/August whilst giving all crew an ultimatum, probably through a re-worded contract with 90 days notice. I think he's probably quite surprised how the militant minority have stuck it out this long and will not want to simply wait for this to gradually diminish over the weeks and months ahead. He will not do anything without warning first, as this would play badly from a PR perspective, but I do expect him to set out what will happen next to crew very clearly to ensure they have clarity in the business as quickly as possible.
Time for the next roll of the dice.
PS Am now on 2 days off having completed 12 sectors as VCC on both LH and SH over the last 10 days. It's been my pleasure to help fly over 1,400 of our customers during that period. It's been a really positive experience in the circumstances and the passengers have been brilliant!
There is absolutely no way there is ever going to be a negotiated settlement now because BASSA can't agree to a deal without staff travel being reinstated and Willie is NEVER going to do that. Its not just a disagreement now about the finances, it cuts much deeper than that, which is why this will run and run until individual crew have run out of energy and money. Quite what Willie will do with the striking crew is still unclear, but if I were them I'd be very very worried by now'.
It will be interesting to see what master plan 'Lenny' comes up with at 13:00 today. I'm execting Unite to use some very generic and wishy washy wording about the next reason to ballot. Anything else will put them at great risk of another visit to the high court.
It will be interesting whether Willie lets them run another ballot to see how much their support has diminished, or whether he goes straight to court before the ballot is even dispatched to try to stop it. There are pros and cons either way I think.
Looking beyond the ballot wording, I'm certain Willie has another plan to bring this to a close. I suspect this will be a two-pronged approach of increasing the programme significantly during any other action in late July/August whilst giving all crew an ultimatum, probably through a re-worded contract with 90 days notice. I think he's probably quite surprised how the militant minority have stuck it out this long and will not want to simply wait for this to gradually diminish over the weeks and months ahead. He will not do anything without warning first, as this would play badly from a PR perspective, but I do expect him to set out what will happen next to crew very clearly to ensure they have clarity in the business as quickly as possible.
Time for the next roll of the dice.
PS Am now on 2 days off having completed 12 sectors as VCC on both LH and SH over the last 10 days. It's been my pleasure to help fly over 1,400 of our customers during that period. It's been a really positive experience in the circumstances and the passengers have been brilliant!
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And I would be very surprised to hear that this payment is tax-free, as claimed earlier on this thread! It is income - HMRC will have their slice.
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A point about rumours!
My last flight before LGW worldwides demise was working up as purser on a LHR trip September 2006. Every crew member including the CSD were convinced that Bermuda and Barbados was coming to LHR. Despite coming from LGW and knowing many of the movers and shakers my contrary point of view was dismissed. I was right and close to 200 years of crew seniority were wrong.
This is why BASSA can get people to strike. We have had numerous emails, letters and information in Cabin Crew News about the specifics of what is on the table and the financial health of BA. Crew would rather listen to hearsay and unfortuneatly, too many buy into it.
Many recent posts contain speculation about when new fleet will start, how it will start and how existing crew will have to sign new contracts. Most of the detail are contrary to what our investors were advised at the recent Investor day and what Bill and Willie are telling crew in person. Wild speculations based on rumour lacking facts and specifics.
My fellow crew members do not belive the hype and question the source of forum-ees' soundbites.
This is why BASSA can get people to strike. We have had numerous emails, letters and information in Cabin Crew News about the specifics of what is on the table and the financial health of BA. Crew would rather listen to hearsay and unfortuneatly, too many buy into it.
Many recent posts contain speculation about when new fleet will start, how it will start and how existing crew will have to sign new contracts. Most of the detail are contrary to what our investors were advised at the recent Investor day and what Bill and Willie are telling crew in person. Wild speculations based on rumour lacking facts and specifics.
My fellow crew members do not belive the hype and question the source of forum-ees' soundbites.
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I read the offer myself and considered a few points good but I thought there were a lot of gaps to be filled before considering it a fair deal.-am on eurofleet by the way-I thought the Union could have negotiated a thing here and there..and apparently there were some progress so am still hopeful!-and not because the union says it,but just because I want to be.
Youv'e just admitted it.....you thought the union could have negotiated a thing here and there. So they failed you...... and yet you went on strike?
Tiramisu,I don't know what to say..I am glad you are getting all the goods!It's great that people are still loyal to us even after all that has happened even excluding the strike.You should know well about the complains we get on those 767.. and how many club passengers felt left down by the changes over the past year.The strike just made it worst I suppose. But I repeat,for mine and your future welfare I prefer to believe your version of things.
This is about the strike.....take the 767 out of it. We know about the problems of the 767.
Please tell me one thing honestly, and that goes to Watersidewonker, Juan O, MissM, A Lurker who has now dissapeared(he probably came to work,
)What has the strike achieved besides a free breakfast before 10 and a few samosas?
