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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

compressor stall 30th Dec 2020 22:58


Originally Posted by goodonyamate (Post 10957400)
very true, however once everyone who is not medically unable has had the vaccine, then it should be free for all. The world could do with a fee less anti vaxxers who continue to sprout their hours of research from YouTube whilst on the shitter.

anti vax = no rights as far as I’m concerned.

Yes for clarity - I should have mentioned they prob won’t open until such time that a pre determined percentage of the population has been vaccinated. (I wasn’t intending to consider the scourge of anti vaxers)
That will be the next political football “war” - determining that percentage. Cue opposition politicians with nothing to lose saying the number is 25% below the figure determined by the relevant CMO.

Transition Layer 30th Dec 2020 23:43

Any country who believes they can eliminate the virus before a vaccine is rolled out is displaying nothing but sheer arrogance. We aren’t better than anyone else, we’ve been lucky and have plenty of things working in our favour like low population density, geographical isolation and lots of sunshine with an outdoor based lifestyle.

If you want to see arrogance, look at the WA Premier, who thinks he is a hero and is absolutely brutal in following his hard border policy for two reasons:

(1) It keeps the mining companies happy and making money. He knows where his bread is buttered!
(2) It’s popular with the public narrative of “screw everyone over East”. Not to mention that plenty of the population are employed directly or indirectly in mining (see point 1).

Let’s start tackling it as one country, enough of this state by state nonsense!

Australopithecus 30th Dec 2020 23:46

The current thinking from Anthony Fauci is that in America approx 85% vaccination rate is required. Different population densities and cultural behaviour would change that, but I don’t know if anyone can say by how much

DanV2 31st Dec 2020 00:09

Just in: South Australia imposing "hard border" with NSW excluding regional border towns and returning SA residents (which will be undergoing mandatory self-isolation with regular police checks).

IMO, I wonder how long will it be before returning SA residents' "mandatory self isolation" becomes "mandatory hotel isolation at own expense" in SA.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-...break/13023328

brokenagain 31st Dec 2020 00:09

Covid: How close is the light at the end of the tunnel?

This article from the BBC from earlier this month makes a valid point regarding the amount of people that need to be vaccinated, and why the impetus is on vaccinating the elderly first.

There are 12 million over-65s (in the UK). Once significant numbers are vaccinated, the risk of the NHS being overwhelmed disappears and the high number of excess deaths being seen across the population dwindles.How long will that take? Well, GPs managed to vaccinate the over-65 population against flu in a little over two months this autumn - 77% came forward for the jab”.

non_state_actor 31st Dec 2020 00:26

About time jobkeeper was turned off so this border madness can end. None of this would be ocurring if the States actually had to pay for it.

Australopithecus 31st Dec 2020 00:43

Just out of curiosity...if the borders were open but infections still simmering along at a low rate what fraction of the usual traffic do you think would exist? Enough to sell paying loads, or would people behave rationally do you think?

Potsie Weber 31st Dec 2020 00:53


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 10957469)
Just out of curiosity...if the borders were open but infections still simmering along at a low rate what fraction of the usual traffic do you think would exist? Enough to sell paying loads, or would people behave rationally do you think?

Exactly how do you keep infections simmering along at a low rate without lockdowns or severely restricting people’s movements?

SOPS 31st Dec 2020 01:25


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 10957449)
Any country who believes they can eliminate the virus before a vaccine is rolled out is displaying nothing but sheer arrogance. We aren’t better than anyone else, we’ve been lucky and have plenty of things working in our favour like low population density, geographical isolation and lots of sunshine with an outdoor based lifestyle.

If you want to see arrogance, look at the WA Premier, who thinks he is a hero and is absolutely brutal in following his hard border policy for two reasons:

(1) It keeps the mining companies happy and making money. He knows where his bread is buttered!
(2) It’s popular with the public narrative of “screw everyone over East”. Not to mention that plenty of the population are employed directly or indirectly in mining (see point 1).

Let’s start tackling it as one country, enough of this state by state nonsense!

90 percent of West Australians think he is a hero. All those that work in mining do. All those pilots that have kept flying aircraft to mine site all year do. All the people in WA that have a fairly normal life do. I fail to see your pint.

On another note.. I think WA’s hard border will be up again within the next 24 hours.

myshoutcaptain 31st Dec 2020 01:34


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10957484)
All those pilots that have kept flying aircraft to mine site all year do.

Except if you’re in mainline you’re still sent on flights that attract an isolation requirement on return to WA rather than having other bases operate the service saving the isolation requirements and giving more work around. VA have taken off all WA crew.

Transition Layer 31st Dec 2020 01:43


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10957484)
90 percent of West Australians think he is a hero. All those that work in mining do. All those pilots that have kept flying aircraft to mine site all year do. All the people in WA that have a fairly normal life do. I fail to see your pint.

On another note.. I think WA’s hard border will be up again within the next 24 hours.

He hasn’t managed the situation through any skill or
expertise, he’s actually made the easiest of decisions by simply throwing up a fence. He’s also made some slip ups along the way, deviating from the “medical advice” line and mentioning things like people going on holidays from WA spending their money “over east” instead of in WA.

He could also eliminate the road toll tomorrow if he banned cars, but what good would that do?

Potsie Weber 31st Dec 2020 01:55


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 10957496)
He hasn’t managed the situation through any skill or
expertise, he’s actually made the easiest of decisions by simply throwing up a fence. He’s also made some slip ups along the way, deviating from the “medical advice” line and mentioning things like people going on holidays from WA spending their money “over east” instead of in WA.

He could also eliminate the road toll tomorrow if he banned cars, but what good would that do?

Comparing cars/road toll to COVID Is stupid. What’s your solution?

Turnleft080 31st Dec 2020 01:57

Time to roll out these 15min test kits. Test the test kits. Get 20 people 10 already covid positive and 10 that are not and check the accuracy.
If all 10 positives are accurate and the other 10 are negative as per the real covid test then impliment these immediately.
All the negatives fly on the day. Even if it means arriving at the airport much earlier do this test and if
all good everyone in that pressurised tube is covid free keeping borders OPEN.

Australopithecus 31st Dec 2020 02:10


Originally Posted by Potsie Weber (Post 10957472)
Exactly how do you keep infections simmering along at a low rate without lockdowns or severely restricting people’s movements?

You don’t, obviously. I am always bemused at pilots clamouring for open borders as though that would restore the loads and the industry to normal. From the start of modern pandemics aviation has always spread the problem. More aviation won't fix that.

Australopithecus 31st Dec 2020 02:14


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10957501)
Time to roll out these 15min test kits. Test the test kits. Get 20 people 10 already covid positive and 10 that are not and check the accuracy.
If all 10 positives are accurate and the other 10 are negative as per the real covid test then impliment these immediately.
All the negatives fly on the day. Even if it means arriving at the airport much earlier do this test and if
all good everyone in that pressurised tube is covid free keeping borders OPEN.

But given the incubation period travellers would still have to quarantine which would kill the demand anyway. Its not like coming to the Gold Coast is that compelling in the first place.

dr dre 31st Dec 2020 02:23


Originally Posted by Potsie Weber (Post 10957472)
Exactly how do you keep infections simmering along at a low rate without lockdowns or severely restricting people’s movements?

If Gladys had gone hard just prior to Christmas ala what Steven Marshall did in SA in November Sydney could’ve been enjoying a Covid free NYE. Instead she went for a half assed approach, concentrating on the Northern Beaches whilst the virus is now all over the city and no mask mandate. And they’re letting NYE fireworks and the cricket go ahead??? Insanity, I’d like to find out who will profit from those events and how they’re connected to the NSW Liberals.

Say what you will about the Victorian government they’ve gone for mandatory masks indoors, capacity restrictions and tighter borders less than 24hrs after the cases were announced, which gives me more confidence they’ll remain on top of the outbreak than Gladys will.


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 10957504)
You don’t, obviously. I am always bemused at pilots clamouring for open borders as though that would restore the loads and the industry to normal.

100,000 aviation jobs lost in the US this year without a single US state border closure.

Transition Layer 31st Dec 2020 02:24


Originally Posted by Potsie Weber (Post 10957499)
Comparing cars/road toll to COVID Is stupid. What’s your solution?

You’re quite right. We’ve all got much more chance of dying in a car accident!

dr dre 31st Dec 2020 02:28


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 10957509)
You’re quite right. We’ve all got much more chance of dying in a car accident!

Nope, USA 2019 road toll 35,000, 2020 USA Covid deaths 350,000. UK 2019 road toll 1900, Covid toll 69,000.

That’s what happens if the virus is left to run around unchecked, and don’t forget those places have had some mask mandates and restrictions in place.

Transition Layer 31st Dec 2020 02:37


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10957512)
Nope, USA 2019 road toll 35,000, 2020 USA Covid deaths 350,000. UK 2019 road toll 1900, Covid toll 69,000.

That’s what happens if the virus is left to run around unchecked, and don’t forget those places have had some mask mandates and restrictions in place.

I’ll rephrase. If you’re in good health, not overweight, and under 80, the car accident would surely be a more likely cause of death.

I’m not advocating for “letting it rip”, just a common sense national based approach. Take the power away from the State Premiers. Define a hotspot, define a cluster. Allow people to book holidays and plan to see relatives with some sort of confidence. The current situation in Australia is getting ridiculous.

Potsie Weber 31st Dec 2020 03:03


Originally Posted by Transition Layer (Post 10957513)
I’ll rephrase. If you’re in good health, not overweight, and under 80, the car accident would surely be a more likely cause of death.

I’m not advocating for “letting it rip”, just a common sense national based approach. Take the power away from the State Premiers. Define a hotspot, define a cluster. Allow people to book holidays and plan to see relatives with some sort of confidence. The current situation in Australia is getting ridiculous.

So now you want to change the constitution?

The enemy in containing the virus is the people, not the government. If more people applied a bit more common sense and a bit more caution, then the virus could probably be managed. Unfortunately that’s not happening and enforced restrictions are required.


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