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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

chookcooker 1st Jan 2021 07:53


Originally Posted by TBM-Legend (Post 10958184)
Fast forward ten or so years:

Ad appears - "If you had a CV19 vaccination in 2021 please contact Smith, Smith and Smith Attorneys at Law and join the millions in our Class Action!"

Never go full retard

JJ 789 1st Jan 2021 08:43


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 10958211)
Why no it isnít in fact. I was taking poetic licence. In actual fact Covid-19 is much worse than that. I will save you the time: if infected, with any of the current known mutations you have an approximately 2% chance of dying, and an approximately 20% chance of having a lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability. If you get the vaccine you have a demonstrated zero chance of dying, and a possibility of an easily treated allergic reaction approximately 1 in 2 million times.

Aviation is never coming back without a wide scale vaccination programme, and I would not be surprised to see them made mandatory by employers, governments and health care providers. .

Actually go check your figures again on the CDC website. I as a 33 year old have a miniscule chance of dying if I contract COVID. Look at the average age of death for COVID-19. It's not even a high consequence infectious disease (downgraded in the UK back in March).
Also while you're at it, have a look at the figures for the Pfizer vaccine in the UK. Almost 3% of people who have received it have had some sort of reaction / side effect which had them seeking medical attention, missing work etc.
So yeah, give me COVID thanks :)

kingRB 1st Jan 2021 09:08


Originally Posted by De_flieger (Post 10958230)
Those statements are incorrect.

There are numerous peer reviewed studies completed or being done into the long-term health effects of coronavirus due to the numbers of people experiencing long term symptoms or organ damage. You can read about one study that was done at St Vincents Hospital (Sydney) here: Australian study finds COVID-19 'long haulers' suffer symptoms months after coronavirus infection or one that was done in the UK here: Southmead Hospital publishes pioneering research on long term effects of coronavirus. There are many others out there, I don't want to spam you or the message board with links, but there is a lot of research being done in hospitals in many different countries all over the world including Australia and the USA on this exact topic, these results can be found relatively easily via Google taking you to their publishers or research organisations.

So like I said, nothing unique or new. An inference was made that Covid 19 has statistical percentage of permanent disability and ongoing effect. If there was any basis to that claim it would be being looked into as a matter of urgency. It's not.

De_flieger 1st Jan 2021 09:34


Originally Posted by kingRB (Post 10958268)
So like I said, nothing unique or new. An inference was made that Covid 19 has statistical percentage of permanent disability and ongoing effect. If there was any basis to that claim it would be being looked into as a matter of urgency. It's not.

No, not at all. I don't know how you drew that conclusion from what I wrote. As the links I posted showed, and there are many other ongoing research projects along these lines in Australia and elsewhere, there is a basis to that claim regarding long term effects, and it is being looked at as a matter of urgency. One of the studies found that among hospitalised patients, approximately three quarters of them were suffering long term effects three months later. Another in Australia found 40% of those infected (not necessarily hospitalised) were still experiencing symptoms at the approximate three month mark. It is an active and ongoing field of research, despite what you say.

currawong 1st Jan 2021 10:53

Interesting the assumption that federal control of the situation would be any different, namely better, than what we have already.

Could go either way....

kingRB 1st Jan 2021 12:38


Originally Posted by De_flieger (Post 10958290)
No, not at all. I don't know how you drew that conclusion from what I wrote.

The claim was made by Australopithecus. I believe the figure stated was 20% of infections result in some form of permanent disability.


Originally Posted by De_flieger (Post 10958290)
As the links I posted showed, and there are many other ongoing research projects along these lines in Australia and elsewhere, there is a basis to that claim regarding long term effects, and it is being looked at as a matter of urgency.
One of the studies found that among hospitalised patients, approximately three quarters of them were suffering long term effects three months later. Another in Australia found 40% of those infected (not necessarily hospitalised) were still experiencing symptoms at the approximate three month mark. It is an active and ongoing field of research, despite what you say.

I never said there wasn't possible long term effects from it. What I said was there is absolute zero difference in its ongoing effects where reported, and any other known respiratory virus. Certainly none that is causing any adverse effects we haven't seen before. The links you posted show nothing more than acknowledgement of that fact :
"This research helps to describe what many coronavirus patients have been telling us: they are still breathless, tired, and not sleeping well months after admission. Reassuringly, however, abnormalities on X-rays and breathing tests are rare in this group. Further work in the DISCOVER project will help us to understand why this is, and how we can help coronavirus sufferers."



Australopithecus 1st Jan 2021 12:58


Originally Posted by JJ 789 (Post 10958256)
Actually go check your figures again on the CDC website. I as a 33 year old have a miniscule chance of dying if I contract COVID. Look at the average age of death for COVID-19. It's not even a high consequence infectious disease (downgraded in the UK back in March).
Also while you're at it, have a look at the figures for the Pfizer vaccine in the UK. Almost 3% of people who have received it have had some sort of reaction / side effect which had them seeking medical attention, missing work etc.
So yeah, give me COVID thanks :)

To be clear, I donít care if you get vaccinated or not. . You will have skin in the game.I will not. Chances are you will be exactly in the vast group of your contemporaries that emerge free of lasting damage or even inconvenience. If not, well, you rolled the dice...

WRT to the side- effects of the Pfizer vaccine in the UK. Really? Examine the data and the commentary and then get back to me. The trial set was plenty large enough to reveal issues. They didnít arise in the phase 3 trials, but they do in the twittersphere? Someone had better rewrite my statistical analysis texts then. Sore triceps and a short duration low grade fever are part of the standard reaction to vaccines.


aussieflyboy 1st Jan 2021 13:21

Apparently thereís a large (and growing) group of crew boycotting all WA flying on Monday the 11th of January as an Ďincentive to changeí Mr McGowans random border closure policy.

I canít imagine this being very legal in the industrial sense however Iím not too sure? I guess there may be a bout of the 1 day cold getting around. Could be interesting if the media get hold of the idea.

Australopithecus 1st Jan 2021 13:23

In reply to King RB. :

I am not going to satisfy your demand for citations when you can search them yourself. Check the British Medical. journal, Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine . They are all free. If you lack a solid grounding in the life sciences, it won’t take you that much time and cross-referencing to get the gist. The elemental take-away is that in the tug-of-war between virus and vaccine, in the context of being able to retain a CASA, or any other, medical, there is a set of probabilities that reflects, mathematically, your comparative risk. Since the set of Covid-19 sufferers is 80 million ish, and the general CFR and Case long term effects are being quantified, the question then becomes what is the comparative risk of not being vaccinated. The younger you are, obviously, the more you can afford to entertain pig-ignorant superstition in the place of actual, you know-science. Go ahead...I would be keen to know if actual experience in the CASA regulatory environment is as forgiving and risk-rewarding as you obviously seem to think it would be.

Best of luck, and a safe and Happy New Year.

Oh by the way...I didn’t, in fact, claim 20% permanent disability. Read it again.


WingNut60 1st Jan 2021 15:44


Originally Posted by aussieflyboy (Post 10958463)
................as an Ďincentive to changeí Mr McGowans random border closure policy.

In what way are you seeing his policy as random?
He has closed every state and territory border at some stage when they have had active Covid cases.

I'm just not seeing random. Happy to be enlightened.

Green.Dot 1st Jan 2021 20:19


Originally Posted by aussieflyboy (Post 10958463)
Apparently thereís a large (and growing) group of crew boycotting all WA flying on Monday the 11th of January as an Ďincentive to changeí Mr McGowans random border closure policy.

Good luck with that.

McGowan didnít bat an eyelid when a Billionaire launched a high court challenge against the WA Govt. The pilots wonít win any hearts of 90% of the WA population either.


dr dre 1st Jan 2021 21:32


Originally Posted by Green.Dot (Post 10958703)
Good luck with that.

McGowan didnít bat an eyelid when a Billionaire launched a high court challenge against the WA Govt. The pilots wonít win any hearts of 90% of the WA population either.

Agreed, I have no clue what this supposed action will achieve. At best a few FIFO shift changes are delayed by a day, and no one in any position of power even realises or cares that it happened.

At worst it hits the papers and those involved could face legal action for unauthorised organised industrial action, and be torn apart by the media. Thereíll be no sympathy, every slur used against pilots who take any form of action (theyíre all on $500k per year, they only work two days a week, flying is all automated anyway) will be spread all across the news and theyíll win no supporters.

Thereís more diplomatic and constructive ways to deal with this.

Ragnor 1st Jan 2021 22:00

I thought Dan had a solid rock plan for covid even employing a covid commander to oversee it. Hard border closure now theyíre running for the hills in Victoria. You would think tho, after the last mess up they had they would be prepared but typical labour gov canít prepare for anything this is why WA closes ASAP when one case occurs they canít cope either.

Victoria testing centers close being un able to keep up that is madness at its best, they want ppl to get tested but canít test ppl. What is Dan doing down there, nothing obviously!

kingRB 1st Jan 2021 23:08


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 10958464)
In reply to King RB. :

I am not going to satisfy your demand for citations when you can search them yourself. Check the British Medical. journal, Lancet, and the New England Journal of Medicine . They are all free. If you lack a solid grounding in the life sciences, it wonít take you that much time and cross-referencing to get the gist.

I don't need to go looking to find the evidence, I didn't make the claims. It's on you to substantiate what you said. It shouldn't be difficult if all the evidence is so apparent.


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 10958464)
Oh by the way...I didnít, in fact, claim 20% permanent disability. Read it again.

Didn't you? One of us has a reading comprehension problem then.

Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 10958211)
if infected, with any of the current known mutations you have an approximately 2% chance of dying, and an approximately 20% chance of having a lengthy long-covid illness or permanent disability.


wheels_down 2nd Jan 2021 00:00

Great work NSW throwing Vic under the bus. Masks now Gladys? Your about 3 weeks too late.

Vic was just unlucky. Could have been any state that got this one.

Go on, you take your annual leave whilst the poor folks of Victoria are suffering as a result of your arrogance.

Green.Dot 2nd Jan 2021 00:17

Less cases in NSW than Vic today. Talk about passing on a baton made of dynamite to a bunch of people who have just had f%Ä•en enough.

Where was Annastacia in the relay race when you need her? :ugh:

Your contact tracing no doubt sh#ts all over Victoria but fcvk you Gladys for not mandating masks when we are now wearing them AGAIN under a dictator d!ck who will be relishing round 3 of this crap.

Rant complete. :}

Ragnor 2nd Jan 2021 01:43

So many angry at NSW, I told you all we are the best at handling this. As demonstrated we are single little countryís on one island no one wanting to learn or work with the virus. NSW could have show Vic the way.

Also letís not forget the clusters Victoria residents started in Sydney back in May, June.

SHVC 2nd Jan 2021 01:46


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 10958783)
Great work NSW throwing Vic under the bus. Masks now Gladys? Your about 3 weeks too late.

The arrogance! Victoria has had plenty of time to prepare they obviously have not. Covid is here for years to think otherwise is even more arrogant.

Potsie Weber 2nd Jan 2021 01:58

So maybe McClown’s shutting of the WA border to all NSW on Dec 19 wasn’t such a stupid idea?

airdualbleedfault 2nd Jan 2021 02:59

Hate to admit I was thinking the same thing Potsie


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