Southend-2

[AirportPlanner1]

The EZY initial summer 19 schedule is on sale. It appears to be quite similar to this year. Budapest is either dropped from March or is seasonal for winter only which would be a bit odd. Sofia only runs over winter as expected.

[DC3 Dave]

Murcia also runs through the winter only to be dropped in March.

[toledoashley]

The EZY initial summer 19 schedule is on sale. It appears to be quite similar to this year. Budapest is either dropped from March or is seasonal for winter only which would be a bit odd. Sofia only runs over winter as expected.

I have noticed it on a few of the 'late winter additions' - Gatwick to Warsaw is one, and routes like La Palma are always late. Looks to be parts missing at the moment rather than not operating.

[GrahamK]

Murcia also runs through the winter only to be dropped in March.

The airport closes to commercial traffic after that I believe

[lfc84]

The airport closes to commercial traffic after that I believe
Flights to Murcia are being sold by Ryanair out of Stansted and Luton (check end of May)

[Planespeaking]

SEN pax up nearly 40% in the first half of the year according to Shares Magazine and Southend Echo.

[Expressflight]

The EZY initial summer 19 schedule is on sale. It appears to be quite similar to this year. Budapest is either dropped from March or is seasonal for winter only which would be a bit odd. Sofia only runs over winter as expected.
The main differences for 2019 compared to 2018 (at the time of the early summer schedule release in each case) seem to be that the SEN fleet will be 2 x A319 and 2 x A320 in 2019 compared to 3 x A319 in 2018, there are 79 weekly flights compared to 62 and that 15 destinations will be served compared to 12. The twice weekly MJV seems to have been dropped while ALC increases from 7 to 10 x weekly and FAO from 8 to 10 x weekly.

[DC3 Dave]

https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/london/stobart-STOB/share-news/Stobart-Group-Limited-Pre-Close-Trading-Statement/78294445

Am I reading it right that the expanded Flybe franchise has not delivered financially?

[Barling Magna]

Looks like it:

" At London Southend Airport, the Group has focused on improving awareness through branding and marketing, route development, and airline incentive deals to accelerate its growth. During the financial year, we accelerated the previously announced GBP30m to GBP40m investment plan, principally in relation to the franchised airline business, to enhance the value of the airport through an increase in sustainable and profitable passenger numbers. The introduction of Ryanair flights in Spring 2019 is the next step in the growth of our London airport. This significant long-term partnership agreement is expected to result in at least one million additional passengers in the first year and more than five million in the first five years The agreement with Ryanair gives us further confidence that we will deliver on our aim to welcome five million passengers a year to the airport by 2022. The investment in the franchised operations from London Southend Airport has contributed successfully to the attraction of other airlines to the airport. The results of the Aviation division for the full year, excluding the investment in the franchise operations, are expected to be broadly in line with expectations."

Although it may well have cost a good deal it does seem to have successfully attracted Ryanair and Adria. Maybe other airlines will follow them.

[AirportPlanner1]

Unless I’m being stupid surely a large chunk of that cost will have been the purchase of the aircraft, which will remain an asset. I’d be surprised if the SEN BE branded operation in isolation racked up huge losses as recent stats show overall loads to be fairly healthy which means they can better mitigate any operating losses through ancillary car parking/rail ticket/terminal spend. The pax throughput also probably influenced The Restaurant Group coming on board sooner which means fairly decent rent coming in. There has been a great deal of advertising, although they’ve really got their act together with social media over the last year which should come at lower cost and greater accuracy than traditional methods.

[SWBKCB]

Aren't the 190's leased rather than bought? Have any ATR's been purchased this year - the new 42?

[Tagron]

Stobart have bought 3 E195s and leased 2. It has been expected that the leased aircraft would be returned as the purchased aircraft were delivered, but right now Stobart account for five in total. The last two purchased aircraft are at Exeter with delivery of one seemingly imminent. The third aIrcraft is due in November. I think the only ATR purchased in the last year is the ATR42-600 which is Dublin based mainly for the Donegal PSO..

[DC3 Dave]

I know you don't much care for speculation Tagron, particularly when it is ill informed, but Stobart have obviously purchased the E195s for a reason, and you would think utilising them in a way that helped SEN grow towards their own targets would be a priority?

[Tagron]

Ha ha Dave you are right, I do speculation of course but preferably in private. Seriously though I do not know what to make of the present situation either. Stobart indicated right from the purchase announcement that one intended use of those E195s was ACMI work. Now they are advertising for pilots for a Dublin-based operation (ACMI apparently) of E190s while at SEN they have enough crews to run three E195s. Developing SEN traffic has certainly been a priority but at the end of the day ACMI work will surely generate a more certain revenue stream than starting up more new routes at SEN. And it can hardly have helped that this years operational difficulties are likely to have generated costs far beyond budget.


Several posters have opined that its now "job done" at SEN with the arrival of Ryanair. I am not so sure. The Stobart routes appear to have performed very well in terms of passenger numbers but thats not necessarily a statement of satisfactory revenues. To pull the operation now before it has reached its true potential and without a replacement operator for the uncovered routes could be seen by the market as an admission of failure which could deter some.possible future operators. There are surely other "development" routes they could try in the interests of broadening the base and the diversity of the route network. Some have been rumoured. If the attitude is "well we have got Ryanair now so its all going to be OK" then I can only say best of luck with that.

So there are two conflicting scenarios. What I think is there must be negotiations ongoing with various parties that have not yet reached a conclusion. But of course the existence of negotiations is no guarantee of a satisfactory outcome.

[AirportPlanner1]

I concur with Tagron. I think there is still a place for Stobart/BE and there are certainly routes with potential I’ve highlighted in the past.

[brian_dromey]

I agree with the above. The Stobart routes from SEN are an interesting collection, much more so than you would expect from FR and U2. The ATR routes in particular.

I still feel that Stobart may want to “go it alone” in some way with the SEN routes. Does the flyBe franchise really add very much in terms of sales/advertising/marketing? Is it just a cost which doesn’t appeal to the more egotistical side of the management? Or maybe Stobart feel they have built their own advertising and social media teams up to a point the can operate independently, depending on Skyscanner and Google flights for clicks?

Finally, as I have said elsewhere, there’s no obvious reason they couldn’t sell via ryanair.com, like Air Europa and Air Malta do for some flights.

[virginblue]

I think the ATR operation and the Embraer operation are two very different things that must be appraised separately.

The E195 operation was clearly a door opener to attract carriers with A320/737 equipment by demonstrating that carefully selected routes have potential from SEN for an airline with slightly larger aircraft, but a much better sales force than Stobart/Flybe. I don't think that Stobart ever planned to operate those routes longer term. It was either a miss with the route getting scrapped or a hit so that it could be offered on a silver platter to a larger airline. After all, airports earn most of their money with passengers in the terminal, not aircraft on the apron.

The ATR operation is different as the routes are mostly to tertiary airports with no/little air services to the UK. There is no apparent airline which could take over those routes after some warming up by Stobart as most of the routes can only be served, volume-wise, by regional aircraft and there are very few airlines left in that category. So I guess Stobart will keep those routes if the overall calculation shows that getting those passengers into the terminal makes sense for Stobart with regard to its SEN airport ownership even if the routes as such do not generate a profit for the airline. The problem is that there is little room to expand that operation as the number of potential destinations that are small enough and near enough for an ATR72 is somewhat limited.

[Expressflight]

Tagron

I agree with most of what you say. I think that some of the new STK/BE routes that were launched were marginal in terms of long term success while others showed real potential and that potential has been realised with the result that RYR and EZY have taken them on for the future. I also think that the costs of launching the routes has been much greater than anticipated and this is alluded to in the Stobart Trading Statement. The MAN route in particular may never be able to turn a profit and this was much discussed, externally and internally, at the time of its launch so I don't see much prospect of that continuing under another brand. What the SEN-MAN did prove is that there is sufficient demand within the catchment areas for the route at a certain pricing level. What surprised me was that at the same time that it became apparent the route would not continue next year they increased the prices, whereas I would have expected that a period of selling at the new prices would be allowed to elapse before pulling it, just to see if it the market would absorb the price increases.

Like you I had expected Stobart to now identify a second tranche of routes and this could still happen next summer if one of the E195s remains SEN-based, which I'm hearing is the current plan. Also I would have expected the ATR routes to continue in 2019. Both of these things really need the BE/STK franchise deal to be continued beyond June 2019 to achieve maximum effect; the brand could change to, say, Loganair but that would entail expensive awareness marketing and short term traffic loss perhaps so would not be ideal. As you suggest I think there must be negotiations going on with perhaps more than one potential partner and this is the cause of the delay in releasing the Spring 2019 timetable.

It's certainly no surprise that there is speculation regarding the outcome of all this and that is surely inevitable so the sooner something concrete is announced the better for all parties concerned.

[virginblue]

Like you I had expected Stobart to now identify a second tranche of routes and this could still happen next summer if one of the E195s remains SEN-based, which I'm hearing is the current plan. Also I would have expected the ATR routes to continue in 2019. Both of these things really need the BE/STK franchise deal to be continued beyond June 2019 to achieve maximum effect; the brand could change to, say, Loganair but that would entail expensive awareness marketing and short term traffic loss perhaps so would not be ideal. As you suggest I think there must be negotiations going on with perhaps more than one potential partner and this is the cause of the delay in releasing the Spring 2019 timetable.

It's certainly no surprise that there is speculation regarding the outcome of all this and that is surely inevitable so the sooner something concrete is announced the better for all parties concerned.

Pardon my ignorance but on what basis is Stobart's Aer Lingus operation? Is all economic risk with EI, so white label-style flying?

The most straightforward solution to keep the SEN operation alive would be to simply use the Aer Lingus brand with Stobard taking the commercial risk/franchising it. At least on the continent it would make relatively little difference if Aer Lingus or Flybe flies from, say, Groningen to Southend. Not sure how it would be see in the London catchment area, but IIRC, EI has offered flights from the UK to third countries in the past (from LGW?), so apparently not a big no no. Aer Lingus would be, if you ask me, a more helpful brand on the continent than Loganair. Theoretically, it could even be used - if SEN-DUB is kept and suitably timed - to offer some one-stop connections to/from DUB that otherwise are inaccessible by air (e.g. Groningen, Caen, Antwerp).

[Expressflight]

virginblue

As far as I know the financial risk for the Aer Lingus Regional route network is largely with Stobart Air. There may be exceptions where it makes economic sense for EI to ask EIR (STK) to take on an existing route but others here perhaps have the definitive answer.

What I would say is that the original plan, in 2014, was for the SEN routes to CFR, RNS, GRQ etc. to be operated under the AER brand but for some reason this did not happen and the deal was then done between STK and BE which currently expires at the end of May 2019. Maybe whatever precluded the EIR deal going ahead four years ago does not now apply and we could see EIR branding on the SEN routes. Definitely the uncertainty over the future of these routes which currently exists needs to be resolved as quickly as possible.

[rog747]

How has Malta been doing with KM?

Is it seasonal and are the stops in CAG and Sicily also popular for pax?

[virginblue]

virginblue

As far as I know the financial risk for the Aer Lingus Regional route network is largely with Stobart Air. There may be exceptions where it makes economic sense for EI to ask EIR (STK) to take on an existing route but others here perhaps have the definitive answer.

What I would say is that the original plan, in 2014, was for the SEN routes to CFR, RNS, GRQ etc. to be operated under the AER brand but for some reason this did not happen and the deal was then done between STK and BE which currently expires at the end of May 2019. Maybe whatever precluded the EIR deal going ahead four years ago does not now apply and we could see EIR branding on the SEN routes. Definitely the uncertainty over the future of these routes which currently exists needs to be resolved as quickly as possible.

Interesting, thanks. So if Stobart uses the brand and assumes the commercial risk it is more or less a franchise operation just like BE@SEN. Not sure why they went for the BE brand at SEN in the first place. Maybe EI was unwilling to franchise its brand for an UK-based operation - or it was more expensive than BE. With the exception of the domestic destinations where Flybe has a sizeable presence, there was relatively little to gain from the BE brand as most of Stobart's destinations do not have Flybe services.

[Expressflight]

Not sure why they went for the BE brand at SEN in the first place. Maybe EI was unwilling to franchise its brand for an UK-based operation - or it was more expensive than BE.
Maybe it was that EI in the end thought allowing the franchise to extend to routes which had no Irish link was a step too far, but it would have been logical from the STK point of view to do it that way I would have thought.. I feel that the BE/STK franchise was perhaps the less preferred option at the time although it was obviously not touted as such by STK and did work out quite well as it turned out.

rog747

From a pax numbers point of view I should imagine that KM are quite pleased with their SEN adventure on all three routes. The routes are not seasonal and are on sale for the whole of next Summer. I think CTA is slightly more popular than CAG this summer. One passenger's experience of loadings I saw this week said: MLA-CTA was "full" and all but 24 of the pax disembarked there and the CTA-SEN was also "full" on departure. As far as I know KM are the only operator that offers Business Class on their flights from SEN.

[Avnu]

IIRC, EI has offered flights from the UK to third countries in the past (from LGW?), so apparently not a big no no.

Not sure if this ever got off the ground, but apparently EI did at least plan (https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2008/1219/111889-aerlingus/) to set up a base at LGW with flights to Malaga, Munich, Nice, Vienna, Dublin, Knock, Faro and Zurich. That was back in 2008, but their ideas about stretching the brand to include such operations might very well have changed later on.

[davidjohnson6]

Aer Lingus set up a small base at Gatwick in spring 2009 - included routes to Munich and Nice. I think it lasted about 12 months before being closed down

[01475]

Not sure why they went for the BE brand at SEN in the first place. Maybe EI was unwilling to franchise its brand for an UK-based operation - or it was more expensive than BE. With the exception of the domestic destinations where Flybe has a sizeable presence, there was relatively little to gain from the BE brand as most of Stobart's destinations do not have Flybe services.

I honestly wouldn't want to run flights in the UK in that market any way other than under the flyBe brand. Not having any brand awareness has been the undoing of CityJet (and many others) in a post-travel agent world. There is limited room in people's memories for brands, and flyBEs is widely known, well advertised, and harmlessly neutral.

That said, an excellent second choice would have been Eddie Stobart, with green planes and adverts on lorries...

​​

[01475]

Aer Lingus set up a small base at Gatwick in spring 2009 - included routes to Munich and Nice. I think it lasted about 12 months before being closed down

Pretty sure it was that autumn I flew Gatwick - Vilnius with them. Everyone I knew asked why I flew via Dublin when I could have got a direct flight from Stansted. They definitely had an inbuilt image problem ...

[virginblue]

I honestly wouldn't want to run flights in the UK in that market any way other than under the flyBe brand. Not having any brand awareness has been the undoing of CityJet (and many others) in a post-travel agent world. There is limited room in people's memories for brands, and flyBEs is widely known, well advertised, and harmlessly neutral.
​​

While I would agree for pretty much all UK markets, I am not so sure about London. Flybe is a relative newcomer at LCY and LHR while LGW is down to one route these days. I don't think it is a much stronger brand in the London market than Aer Lingus.

[HZ123]

IAG might well have also some influence if any of the potential destinations are served by group members!

[brian_dromey]

I agree with the view that the ATR and ERJ networks are different beasts. Getting SEN on the radar of Ryanair, AirMalta and easyJet was it’s purpose. It’s been an expensive adeventure, although painting a pair of ATRs purple was relatively cheap, introducing the ERJs much more costly. Hopefully STK can find profitable work for them, otherwise they will become a noose like they were at flyBe.

IAG might well have also some influence if any of the potential destinations are served by group members!
That’s not how IAG works. IAG is concerned with driving profit with back-room synergies, handling, IT etc.
For an example of the independence of IAGs OpCo’s - EI has lent its brand to WX for LCY - the only competitor is BACityflyer.

[Expressflight]

Murcia also runs through the winter only to be dropped in March.
Flights to MJV in general are expected to transfer to Corvera when the former closes next year but perhaps there is still some uncertainty on this. I expect the 2 x weekly flights from SEN will be released in due course because the only two spare slots in the EZY Spring 2019 schedule are exactly those that are used to operate SEN-MJV this year.

There are no spare slots to allow a SEN-based aircraft to operate SEN-BUD so I wonder if that is indeed being dropped or will it operate on a W-pattern still to be released?

[Avnu]

That’s not how IAG works. IAG is concerned with driving profit with back-room synergies, handling, IT etc.
For an example of the independence of IAGs OpCo’s - EI has lent its brand to WX for LCY - the only competitor is BACityflyer.

This got me thinking about the fact that BA itself works with franchise partners in the form of Sun-Air and Comair. Is there anything ruling out a 'British Airways operated by Stobart Air' operation?

[tophat27dt]

This got me thinking about the fact that BA itself works with franchise partners in the form of Sun-Air and Comair. Is there anything ruling out a 'British Airways operated by Stobart Air' operation?
There is nothing to prevent that. You're getting warmer!

[speedbreak1]

SEN-TFS

Does this flight operate without payload penalties? Has it ever had to do a refuelling stop en-route?

[virginblue]

There is nothing to prevent that. You're getting warmer!

But hasn't BA cut back franchising its brand to other airlines significantly in the past? They used to have BMED, GB Air, Loganair in the past, for a long time it has been just Comair and Sun Air.

[mikkie4]

Do COMAIR/SUN AIR have suitable sized aircraft for the size of SENs runway?

[AirportPlanner1]

Do COMAIR/SUN AIR have suitable sized aircraft for the size of SENs runway?

Comair certainly do. They just don’t quite have the range however to reach Cape Town.....

[BA318]

Sun Air does. It operates Dornier 328 aircraft including from LCY.

[tophat27dt]

Do COMAIR/SUN AIR have suitable sized aircraft for the size of SENs runway?
......getting colder.....wait until November.

[sinbad73]

......getting colder.....wait until November.

Loganair/BMI Regional?

[virginblue]

Loganair/BMI Regional?

Well, if BA is "warm" but not "hot", it appears as if Aer Lingus could be the culprit - an IAG-owned brand, already used by Stobart elsewhere. We shall see.

[Cyrano]

There is nothing to prevent that. You're getting warmer!
Perhaps operating on behalf of a part of BA already flying Embraers...? :hmm:

[AirportPlanner1]

The spare E195s could feasibly fill some slots at LGW if BA are still short next year, but they won’t be at LCY because they aren’t certified.

[canberra97]

The spare E195s could feasibly fill some slots at LGW if BA are still short next year, but they won’t be at LCY because they aren’t certified.

British Airways LGW fleet is based entirely around the A319/320 and B772 and under a different scenario with the current pilots agreement I can't see BACF flying from LGW.

Are you sure about the four additional E190's that BACF are acquiring not being certified for LCY, has this been confirmed?

Why would BACF acquire an orphan fleet of four E190's when they aren't or won't be certified for LCY, it doesn't make sense!

[EI-BUD]

But hasn't BA cut back franchising its brand to other airlines significantly in the past? They used to have BMED, GB Air, Loganair in the past, for a long time it has been just Comair and Sun Air.

Not so much that BA has cut back on franchising. For the most part the franchise arrangements worked. However, some moved on for logical reasons;
BMed; bmi acquired the airline and its routes, and BA got its slots back.
GB Airways; easyJet purchased the airline. The airline that brought easyJet to life with 2 737s!
Loganair; when BA closed its regional operations to centre on London, the connectivity thought GLA/EDI/MAN was mostly gone and moving to BE seemed like a more logical choice.

So I think BA will consider any franchise if the operation adds value and the partner can deliver a consistent brand offering to BA. Sunair is an interesting alliance! It's very niche and could be an ideal fit to replace Stobarts thinner shorter SEN routes, and giving SEN access to BA's audience...

[SWBKCB]

British Airways LGW fleet is based entirely around the A319/320 and B772 and under a different scenario with the current pilots agreement I can't see BACF flying from LGW.

Are you sure about the four additional E190's that BACF are acquiring not being certified for LCY, has this been confirmed?

Why would BACF acquire an orphan fleet of four E190's when they aren't or won't be certified for LCY, it doesn't make sense!

The 'spare 195's' referred to are the Stobart machines for which no schedule has been published yet, not the additional Cityflyer aircraft

[AirportPlanner1]

British Airways LGW fleet is based entirely around the A319/320 and B772 and under a different scenario with the current pilots agreement I can't see BACF flying from LGW.

Are you sure about the four additional E190's that BACF are acquiring not being certified for LCY, has this been confirmed?

Why would BACF acquire an orphan fleet of four E190's when they aren't or won't be certified for LCY, it doesn't make sense!

I think you need to re-read what I said.

FYI BA have a range of aircraft and airlines operating for them at LGW filling the Monarch slots.

Its E195s that aren’t certified, hence Stobart won’t be the new Eastern at LCY.

[virginblue]

So I think BA will consider any franchise if the operation adds value and the partner can deliver a consistent brand offering to BA. Sunair is an interesting alliance! It's very niche and could be an ideal fit to replace Stobarts thinner shorter SEN routes, and giving SEN access to BA's audience...

Sun Air will not work at SEN. It is probably the airline in Europe with the strongest focus on business / high yielding pax - to an extent that they operate an extremely expensive aircraft type nobody else flies on chedules any more with extremely low utilization. It really only works from bases like Billund and not from an extremely competitive London base at SEN.

[DC3 Dave]

SEN-TFS

Does this flight operate without payload penalties? Has it ever had to do a refuelling stop en-route?

I've not seen it referred to lately, but I believe TFS is restricted to 170 seats, ACE 175. Certainly, refuelling stops have occurred, but I can't recall any mention of them last winter.

Does anyone know if this summer's extreme temperatures caused any issues at SEN on other routes?

[Expressflight]

Does anyone know if this summer's extreme temperatures caused any issues at SEN on other routes?
I did try to keep a particular eye on that this summer and I'm not aware of any fuel stops being required, although cannot state categorically that there were none. One of the mitigating factors will have been that runway 05 was in use this summer much more frequently than normal and that runway does not suffer from the second segment climb restrictions that can sometimes apply when 23 is in use.

[Expressflight]

Excellent August pax figures for SEN at 189,651, that being an increase of 47% on last year.

[shamrock7seal]

More and more trip reports on youtube by Asian and other tourists using SEN as a London departure point. Indicates to me that they are really starting to break into the 'London' market. This time next year they could be processing upwards of 255-265,000 pax per month.

[LTNman]

Seems that Wizz are going to run a service out of Stansted. I thought Southend was on the brink of getting some Wizz flights before Monarch went bust?

[tophat27dt]

Seems that Wizz are going to run a service out of Stansted. I thought Southend was on the brink of getting some Wizz flights before Monarch went bust?
Yes they were

[mikkie4]

Just because WIZZ are going to run A service out of STN don't mean they are not still looking to use SEN

[DC3 Dave]

Never mind Wizz. They're not going operate SEN-GLA when it ends in a month. Nearly 7,000 pax used the route in August. That's 500 more than GRQ (which in itself was a record month).

​​​​​​

[Falcon666]

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280688/flybe-scales-back-london-southend-service-in-w18/

As previously confirmed on this thread.

DC3 it still comes down to yield , not pax numbers.If it was successful either they wouldn't drop it or somebody else will surely take over the route.

[DC3 Dave]

Yield, yes understood. But it was always going to be a "cheap as chips" route.

[tophat27dt]

Looks like the A320 that went U/S yesterday causing 6 hours delay both ways for the Malta flight ( replaced temporarily by a Gatwick A320), has "broken down" again in Paris causing a few delays this evening.

[tophat27dt]

OE-IVR positioning in from Gatwick at 1930 to assist.

[tophat27dt]

Just because WIZZ are going to run A service out of STN don't mean they are not still looking to use SEN
How much longer will Wizz be keeping their A320s? The A321 cannot operate with full loads from SEN.

[stewyb]

How much longer will Wizz be keeping their A320s? The A321 cannot operate with full loads from SEN.

Wizz have an order bank of 70 odd 320neo so i would say for some time!

[Expressflight]

But it was always going to be a "cheap as chips" route.
I don't quite understand what you mean. Could you elaborate?

[DC3 Dave]

As suggested, Murcia flights transfer to Corvera at the end of March.

[tophat27dt]

Yield, yes understood. But it was always going to be a "cheap as chips" route.
Why would any service to Scotland be cheap as chips? I think the fares were set up the same as most UK domestic flights with discounts for early bookers.

[tophat27dt]

Wizz have an order bank of 70 odd 320neo so i would say for some time!

Thats good news. So there is still a possibility then.

[AirportPlanner1]

Never mind Wizz. They're not going operate SEN-GLA when it ends in a month. Nearly 7,000 pax used the route in August. That's 500 more than GRQ (which in itself was a record month).

​​​​​​

The problem with GLA is that 7000 still only represents a load of 50% at the time of year you would expect it to be strongest, and it’s been fairly static. GRQ was more like 64%, at a time of year you would expect demand to be a bit weaker and with much higher base fares.

[DC3 Dave]

I don't quite understand what you mean. Could you elaborate?

I just wonder what expectations Stobart had with regard to yield when they announced SEN-GLA? At that time fares from STN were APD plus next to nothing. So how were fares ever going to rise much beyond those offered at the start? What was so special about the route that growth would not be choked off by the requirement to improve the yield? Or was that secondary to the need to get numbers through the terminal and take revenue there?

I guess it's just frustrating to see a route that during August was number 8 out of 32 for pax being axed. Perhaps the improving numbers came too late, or perhaps they realised that yield would never reach where it needed to be.

Perhaps it's best to see Stobart's plans for 2019 before being critical.

​​​​​​

[AirportPlanner1]

Fares were only really APD+nothing during the week from STN if you booked in advance. If you tried booking the week or two beforehand or for Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon am they were considerably more. Stobart offered some ridiculously low fares and still couldn’t fill it. I got one for £9.27 or something similar.

For me the timings weren’t quite right which didn’t help. Last winter on Mondays it was actually the first flight northbound out of London, but that benefit was outdone by there being no return that evening and only mid-morning the next day which was useless for business. While it is now double daily, the evening one arrives in SEN quite late which puts me off when I can get back to STN much earlier and the morning southbound arrives too late to be of much use for Scottish business travellers.

[DC3 Dave]

https://twitter.com/i/status/1030050524962455552

Just thought I'd post this short video. It shows an up to date look inside the terminal for anyone who hasn't flown from SEN recently.

[tophat27dt]

I am a bit surprised that Stobart Air plan to stop flights to Milan. Were the loads not good enough, or just not enough gaps in the planned schedule for the one remaining E195?

[_aax1]

I am a bit surprised that Stobart Air plan to stop flights to Milan. Were the loads not good enough, or just not enough gaps in the planned schedule for the one remaining E195?

I think you have to be realistic. Ryanair are flying to Bergamo and Stobart cannot compete with them on a cost basis. I know they’re different airports but they are both marketed as Milan, the average cost cautious traveller will choose Ryanair.

Stobart have successfully shown route viability with easyJet and Ryanair PRG BUD DBV BGY REU VCE DUB to name a few, that was its sole purpose.

[tophat27dt]

More delays today. Is one of the 195s broken again?

[AirportPlanner1]

Looks like it, ATR to the rescue again.

[tophat27dt]

Looks like it, ATR to the rescue again.
Seems EI-GGC is unserviceable and on the ground in Dublin since Thursday evening. An Eastern ATR72 has arrived but it's from and to Aberdeen so probably not connected with the delays and normally operates into LCY. Plus for some reason FlyBe operated their morning Edinburgh-LCY Dash8
into SEN earlier today.

[compton3bravo]

Now that Luton and Stansted operations are back to normal so to speak (night jet movements etc) it will be interesting to see how many executive movements Southend will be able to hold on to.

[asdf1234]

Now that Luton and Stansted operations are back to normal so to speak (night jet movements etc) it will be interesting to see how many executive movements Southend will be able to hold on to.

Does anyone know how many movements the new FBO handled to date this year?

[southside bobby]

Purely anecdotal but it appears a not insignificant percentage of execs were inflight & operational diversions due to "curfews" elsewhere so not really making SEN the centre of choice.

[DC3 Dave]

Purely anecdotal but it appears a not insignificant percentage of execs were inflight & operational diversions due to "curfews" elsewhere so not really making SEN the centre of choice.

I'm sure you're right, and most will "go home". But the last few months have been an opportunity for SEN to demonstrate what they have to offer, and that should have advanced the project beyond anything they could have done on their own.

[Expressflight]

Purely anecdotal but it appears a not insignificant percentage of execs were inflight & operational diversions due to "curfews" elsewhere so not really making SEN the centre of choice.
It's certainly true that the very large increase in bizjets using SEN this summer was almost entirely due to the "curfews" at LTN and to a lesser extent STN. Not many were re-routed/diverted in flight though but were PPR booked into SEN, so they chose SEN in advance given the situation elsewhere. Most are likely to return to their old habits of using LTN and STN at night I'm sure but it certainly raised SEN's profile worldwide which will hopefully yield some extra business going forward.

[tophat27dt]

Purely anecdotal but it appears a not insignificant percentage of execs were inflight & operational diversions due to "curfews" elsewhere so not really making SEN the centre of choice.
Few were in-flight diversions. They flight planned into.SEN and had prebooked handling arranged.

[southside bobby]

Fair go but subjects slated as LTN...STN...etc "diversions".

Is it possible subjects also double booked SEN on a "just in case" basis?...Happens in the exec world.

[DC3 Dave]

I think it should be remembered that these customers are demanding people. If LTN and STN have failed them then maybe they won't be forgiven in a hurry, especially when they look to the future and the pressures on those airports and what that may mean to execs demanding a runway open to them 24hrs. If SEN have demonstrated they can deliver the service required why shouldn't they get a decent slice of the pie?

[LTNman]

Luton is definitely less busy with biz jets in part due to the loss of an apron which is now used to park passenger jets overnight so even though the airport will accept them there is less room to park them even in the winter months.

Southend should still do well out of stand issues at LTN.

[Expressflight]

Fair go but subjects slated as LTN...STN...etc "diversions".

Is it possible subjects also double booked SEN on a "just in case" basis?...Happens in the exec world.
I don't understand the first line of your post I'm afraid, but regarding the second I think the answer is "unlikely" as the slot restrictions at both LTN and STN would be well known to them and they wouldn't have been able to book slots there. It had also been suggested that having been 'forced' to use SEN the aircraft would rapidly be relocated to LTN or STN as soon as possible but that didn't seem to happen. A couple of days ago I noted seven non-based bizjet aircraft on the SEN ramp and another two or three in the SJC hangar.

[southside bobby]

To clarify...Fair few visiting exec a/c to Southend were "reported" as LTN...STN...etc "diversions".

Re the bookings fair go but anecdotal evidence suggests in some instances otherwise.

I`m suggesting that a/c may have had slots booked at LTN/STN BEFORE the "curfew" hour but in a just in case scenario booked SEN too.


Execs already out of position may then be slotted out at LTN/STN for the return both with the R/W & FBO`s as the new days movements dealt with.

Anyways...Anecdotes & conjecture.

[Expressflight]

To clarify...Fair few visiting exec a/c to Southend were "reported" as LTN...STN...etc "diversions".
I`m suggesting that a/c may have had slots booked at LTN/STN BEFORE the "curfew" hour but in a just in case scenario booked SEN too.

Ah, I see what you mean. SEN would probably have been able to accept them as diversions anyway without them needing to book a slot. I know SEN valued greatly their limited number of available night slots so wouldn't have taken kindly to an operator booking one 'just in case' and then not using it. Genuine diversions are excluded from the monthly night quota count.

[southside bobby]

Thanks for info...

[asdf1234]

Thanks for all the posts reporting anecdotal increases in executive jet movements but does someone have the factual amount of movements Stobarts have handled since the new FBO opened?

[DC3 Dave]

Exec jets.

In excess of 800 May - Sept inc.

Small beer? Certainly. But a solid start.

[Espada III]

I flew into and out of SEN today for the first time. Almost certianly a one-off. Was surprised by teh number of BAe146 parked up. Whose are they and why parked up looked unused?

Pleasant little airport, reminds me of Newquay or a smaller Liverpool. A breath of fresh air compared to Manchester.

[DC3 Dave]

The 146 / RJ's belong to Jota Aviation. They are based at SEN. My understanding is that they have good and growing demand for their services which involves both pax and cargo.

[Expressflight]

I flew into and out of SEN today for the first time. Almost certianly a one-off. Was surprised by teh number of BAe146 parked up. Whose are they and why parked up looked unused?
JOTA Aviation have an active fleet of five 146/RJ aircraft; 1 x 146-200, 1 x RJ85, 1 x RJ100 (all in pax configuration) and 2 x 146-300QT freighters. The QTs are just entering service and they have a further two QTs acquired a few months ago that are not yet active. They have had a very busy summer with their passenger fleet flying for the likes of HOP and Cityjet alongside charter operations.

[pamann]

Something that’s always puzzled me

What’s the difference between a 146 and an RJ85/100? I always think of them as the same. What changed?

[Fly757X]

Something that’s always puzzled me

What’s the difference between a 146 and an RJ85/100? I always think of them as the same. What changed?

Avionics, Engines etc. I’m not 100% of the specifics of the 146 but I don’t think they had a FMS when they were built.

[rog747]

Something that’s always puzzled me

What’s the difference between a 146 and an RJ85/100? I always think of them as the same. What changed?








Avro Hawker Siddeley designed what became the Bae 146
The 100 and stretched 200 series
80/85/100 seats and then the further stretched 115 seat 300 series version

Jota Aviation at SEN seem to be very successful and have a their growing fleet of 146's for ACMI and pax/cargo charter work.
They were recently looking for more cabin crew and Ops/crewing staff at SEN
Perhaps a local or bigger tour operator would consider Jota for a IT series out of SEN again - The 146 is 'right size' for routes like Palma Alicante and Italy.



I first saw a demo 146-100 in BAF colours being shown off to Brymon at LHR around the time the Brymon Dash 7 was being introduced - we handled it at BMA T1. 1981?

In attempt to join the growing market of Regional Jets Bae sort to market their 146 as an RJ model and give it a makeover
the RJ70/85 and 100 versions (seat capacity) saw new avionics and upgrades to the engines and few more tweaks

A QC quick change passenger/cargo version with a large freight door was also offered from 146 days - renamed QT quiet trader

SEN locally based Burstin Travel bought 2 new 146-200QC's to fly holiday charters from SEN and do cargo/mail flights at night - the airline was called Princess Air. They leased a 3rd -200

A further-improved version with new engines, the Avro RJX, was announced in 1997, but only two prototypes and one production aircraft were built before production ceased in 2001.
The 146/RJ sold much better than the Bac-111

Quite a nice little aeroplane - Dan Air Manx and Palmair used them on holiday flights from Gatwick and Bournemouth - suited mainly as far as PMI and IBZ, but AGP and FAO were flown but a tech stop sometimes was needed as the range/payload was stretched to the limit.
Manx used them on ski charters to Chambery and INN but it was hard to get a full load of bags skis and boots in the holds.

[LGWAlan]

Avro Hawker Siddeley designed what became the Bae 146
The 100 and stretched 200 series
80/85/100 seats and then the further stretched 115 seat 300 series version

Jota Aviation at SEN seem to be very successful and have a their growing fleet of 146's for ACMI and pax/cargo charter work.
They were recently looking for more cabin crew and Ops/crewing staff at SEN
Perhaps a local or bigger tour operator would consider Jota for a IT series out of SEN again - The 146 is 'right size' for routes like Palma Alicante and Italy.



I first saw a demo 146-100 in BAF colours being shown off to Brymon at LHR around the time the Brymon Dash 7 was being introduced - we handled it at BMA T1. 1981?

In attempt to join the growing market of Regional Jets Bae sort to market their 146 as an RJ model and give it a makeover
the RJ70/85 and 100 versions (seat capacity) saw new avionics and upgrades to the engines and few more tweaks

A QC quick change passenger/cargo version with a large freight door was also offered from 146 days - renamed QT quiet trader

SEN locally based Burstin Travel bought 2 new 146-200QC's to fly holiday charters from SEN and do cargo/mail flights at night - the airline was called Princess Air. They leased a 3rd -200

A further-improved version with new engines, the Avro RJX, was announced in 1997, but only two prototypes and one production aircraft were built before production ceased in 2001.
The 146/RJ sold much better than the Bac-111

Quite a nice little aeroplane - Dan Air Manx and Palmair used them on holiday flights from Gatwick and Bournemouth - suited mainly as far as PMI and IBZ, but AGP and FAO were flown but a tech stop sometimes was needed as the range/payload was stretched to the limit.
Manx used them on ski charters to Chambery and INN but it was hard to get a full load of bags skis and boots in the holds.

Loganair also used them ex MAN and SEN. A/C were G-OLCA and G-OLCB. They were 146-200 in a Y101 config - flew MAN-AGP and return one year on it - horrendously delayed in the old AGP terminal coming home. One did a double MAN-AGP-MAN and the other positioned down to SEN to operate something in the morning followed by a SEN-AGP that year.

[Wycombe]

A/C were G-OLCA and G-OLCB

Off-topic, but I remember those 2 operating weekly charters for the MoD from MAN out to the airfields of RAF Germany.

[SEN Observer]

......getting colder.....wait until November.

Tophat - re your above post (#2040 September 29th) have I missed something? I am not asking what, but are you thinking/knowing that there is some announcement to be made in November?

[tophat27dt]

Tophat - re your above post (#2040 September 29th) have I missed something? I am not asking what, but are you thinking/knowing that there is some announcement to be made in November?
No. I know nothing for sure except that any new franchise agreements with Stobart Air would be made during November.

[SEN Observer]

Ah, thank you. That's sorted that out then!

[DC3 Dave]

My goodness, diverts from LCY are arriving thick and fast.

Only one problem - Because of engineering work last London bound train departs Southend Victoria at 2100.

[tophat27dt]

My goodness, diverts from LCY are arriving thick and fast.

Only one problem - Because of engineering work last London bound train departs Southend Victoria at 2100.
The final diversion, from Ibiza, is due to land at 2025
​​​​​​.so should be ok. Trains are normal today apparently

[EssexMan61]

The evening bus replacements have actually been suspended for this week (only!!!) - so trains are operating throughout this evening.

[tophat27dt]

The evening bus replacements have actually been suspended for this week (only!!!) - so trains are operating throughout this evening.
Thats good news. Thanks

[EssexMan61]

Only a short respite unfortunately.. Weekend engineering is back this weekend and the weekday evening engineering resumes from next Monday - but at least the latter seems to start later and to be a bit less extensive for now.

[BA318]

Flybe will operate NQY-SEN next year. From April 2019 5 times weekly, increasing to daily from 1st May.

I assume it will be operated by Stobart but NQY Twitter doesn't say.

[tophat27dt]

Flybe will operate NQY-SEN next year. From April 2019 5 times weekly, increasing to daily from 1st May.

I assume it will be operated by Stobart but NQY Twitter doesn't say.
Thats very interesting. I thought the Flybe agreement would end in April. I think the route will do well again.
plus new routes to Aberdeen and Jersey, and Manchester continues.

[cornishsimon]

Hmmmm good news

however this could very well be BE mainline as there’s runout of Flybe making newquay a base and the previous STN/SEN operations from newquay have all been mainline operated on a W pattern ex bhx


cs

[AirportPlanner1]

​​I’ve found a TTG article that states it’s Stobart operating it. Where is the news about MAN, ABZ and JER? Neither appear bookable.

JER seems odd given it’s on sale with EZY at normal frequency. I know there’s rumours ABZ-LCY is ceasing and there’s nothing at STN so this could work if true.

[DC3 Dave]

Here's the press release.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16991866.you-will-soon-be-able-to-fly-from-southend-to-newquay/

It appears that talk of Stobart's Flybe franchise ending was premature. I think it's reasonable to suggest that this route will not be the only one operated by the Flybe brand next summer.

[AirportPlanner1]

Here's the press release.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16991866.you-will-soon-be-able-to-fly-from-southend-to-newquay/

It appears that talk of Stobart's Flybe franchise ending was premature. I think it's reasonable to suggest that this route will not be the only one operated by the Flybe brand next summer.

​​​​​​​That doesn’t reference MAN continuation or new ABZ/JER though?

[tophat27dt]

That doesn’t reference MAN continuation or new ABZ/JER though?
​​​​​​​Go to the Flybe thread and look at the list of Flight Alerts. However, these might not be direct??

[compton3bravo]

Would not be to sure about that Dave especially after their recent financial statement.

[DC3 Dave]

Definitely uncertain times for Flybe.

I've just read the press release again. In the opening sentence it says NQY is to be a year round destination from 1st April. And in the last it talks about onward connections.

I do believe NQY is to become Stobart's new MAN.

[Cyrano]

Definitely uncertain times for Flybe.

I've just read the press release again. In the opening sentence it says NQY is to be a year round destination from 1st April. And in the last it talks about onward connections.

I do believe NQY is to become Stobart's new MAN.

Yes, the last sentence of that article says:
There are onward flights from Newquay airport to Dublin, Liverpool, Birmingham, Isles of Scilly, Alicante, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt-Hahn and more.
In my view the implied notion that someone might choose to fly from Southend via Newquay to pretty much any of those destinations (except Isles of Scilly)... is, let's say, "unrealistic". :cool:

[DC3 Dave]

Yes, the last sentence of that article says:

In my view the implied notion that someone might choose to fly from Southend via Newquay to pretty much any of those destinations (except Isles of Scilly)... is, let's say, "unrealistic". :cool:

I absolutely agree. But are there other destinations yet to be announced?

[compton3bravo]

Oh come on, can we just be realistic. Why would anybody want to connect at Nequay other than the Isles of Scilly when Southend, Stansted ,Luton etc has got most of Europe covered. I fear rose tinted glasses have reared their ugly head again.

[SWBKCB]

Oh come on, can we just be realistic. Why would anybody want to connect at Nequay other than the Isles of Scilly when Southend, Stansted ,Luton etc has got most of Europe covered. I fear rose tinted glasses have reared their ugly head again.

It's a press release - its not related to the real world...

[tophat27dt]

I absolutely agree. But are there other destinations yet to be announced?
As I have written before, please wait until mid-november by which time all the 2019 routes, schedules and franchise agreement(s) will be made public. I know the discussions about FlyBe's future exists, but hopefully they will survive.

[DC3 Dave]

Ok all.

Narrowing the discussion, I think SEN - NQY daily throughout the summer is a cracking ''new' route and I for one will be taking advantage of it.

[DC3 Dave]

Oh come on, can we just be realistic. Why would anybody want to connect at Nequay other than the Isles of Scilly when Southend, Stansted ,Luton etc has got most of Europe covered. I fear rose tinted glasses have reared their ugly head again.

With all due respect and admiration for tophat27dt I need to answer the equally esteemed compton3bravo.

Firstly, rose-tinted glasses are beautiful things. Secondly, as usual, I need to clarify my casual comparison between NQY and MAN. I was clumsily trying to suggest that Stobart / Flybe may want to offer limited connections at NQY, particularly as they have control of services to Cornwall from ROI with their other franchise.

Of course, Stobart may wish to purchase 2 or 3 A321's and start a west coast to east coast transatlantic low cost service....... Anyway, it's time to take my placebo and go to bed.

[southside bobby]

Lol....

Sounds/reads like you are taking something already DC3 Dave.

[AirportPlanner1]

I think you all need to calm down.

I strongly suspect the original press release would have said NQY was connected to various destinations. I strongly suspect the Echo then lazily turned that into connecting via NQY, which is ludicrous. Local journos are, in the main, idiots. And very lazy.

Taking that press release and using it to make wild suggestions on here about Stobart hubs in NQY should also not have happened.

Lastly to contradict the chap saying people wouldn’t take such crazy connections, yes they would. I’ve travelled MAN-SEN with someone on board doing MAN-SEN-GLA despite there being a MAN-GLA flight leaving just after us. I guess if it’s a few quid cheaper or some other infathomable reason people will do anything.

[tophat27dt]

I think you all need to calm down.

I strongly suspect the original press release would have said NQY was connected to various destinations. I strongly suspect the Echo then lazily turned that into connecting via NQY, which is ludicrous. Local journos are, in the main, idiots. And very lazy.

Taking that press release and using it to make wild suggestions on here about Stobart hubs in NQY should also not have happened.

Lastly to contradict the chap saying people wouldn’t take such crazy connections, yes they would. I’ve travelled MAN-SEN with someone on board doing MAN-SEN-GLA despite there being a MAN-GLA flight leaving just after us. I guess if it’s a few quid cheaper or some other infathomable reason people will do anything.
I agree. Airlines do tend to offer the weirdest of connections through their hubs and it's true some people do take advantage of them, for whatever reasons. The local Southend rag seems to have some ignorant careless "journalists" writing about subjects they know nothing about. It makes me crazy when the Daily Mail writes headlines like "passengers stranded on runway for six hours" when of course they were still on the parking bay. 😂

[cornishsimon]

Flybe and NQY don’t offer connections at newquay.

Previously when BE operated BHX-NQY-STN you couldn’t book BHX-STN, newquay is a small airport with no connections on one ticket possible.

Thst i suspect would only change if and when sky is started interlining and codesharing which mainly I suspect due to the weather on Scillies they don’t


cs

[limited_sight]

Antwerp, Caen, Rennes, Groningen and Newquay.

This means the franchise deal will continue. Whether the other routes are dropped is to be seen.

[Sharklet_321]

If Flybe don't survive then it may be a franchise with someone else. Any alternatives out there?

[tophat27dt]

If Flybe don't survive then it may be a franchise with someone else. Any alternatives out there?
Oh yes.............

[DC3 Dave]

It's good to have some clarification on the future for Stobart / Flybe. Still wondering why the former wish to operate SEN - MAN throughout the miserable winter months instead of culling the route.

I can only think they need to keep an ATR and more importantly personnel occupied whilst negotiations continue with Flybe or someone else.

[AirportPlanner1]

Still wondering why the former wish to operate SEN - MAN throughout the miserable winter months instead of culling the route.

I agree but it’s the end date of 6th Jan that really doesn’t make sense. Actually logically you’d say the winter months would be strongest for the route as you’ll see more business traffic than high summer and you’ve also got football. For Spurs v Man Utd for example they laid on a E195 last year. It’s also bizarre they’re continuing and then halting it after the very quietest couple of weeks.

The summer ‘19 schedule requires 2 ATRs, so again it’s odd that from 6th Jan they will have an aircraft effectively redundant for three months.

I’m glad it is being continued though as I’ve got two trips booked in the next month.

There’s no sign yet of an E195 for next summer.

[tophat27dt]

I heard from a Stobart pilot that one of the E195s will soon be painted into BA colours.

[SEN Observer]

I heard from a Stobart pilot that one of the E195s will soon be painted into BA colours.

Good for Stobart but will SEN benefit from this? Could be employed anywhere (except LCY)

[brian_dromey]

Good for Stobart but will SEN benefit from this? Could be employed anywhere (except LCY)
Could it?
BA have fairly strict scope clauses which prohibit operation of jets which seat more than 100 passengers. Apparently that’s why the CityFlyer E190s seat 98 and can’t operate from LHR or LGW.

All of that said BA have had U.K. franchise partners in the past. So there must be a mechanism, I assume it’s to do with commercial risk.

[Cazza_fly]

Could it?
BA have fairly strict scope clauses which prohibit operation of jets which seat more than 100 passengers. Apparently that’s why the CityFlyer E190s seat 98 and can’t operate from LHR or LGW.

All of that said BA have had U.K. franchise partners in the past. So there must be a mechanism, I assume it’s to do with commercial risk.

Yes i believe that these historic restrictions to be from LCY and with Cityflyer. The E195(s) will most likely be operating with BA mainline however and i'd more than hazard a guess will be based at LGW. I hope they have looked at their shocking dispatch reliability though, as punctuality is something the LGW operation in particular are proud of.

[DC3 Dave]

I heard from a Stobart pilot that one of the E195s will soon be painted into BA colours.

Perhaps the leasing agreement between Proprius and Stobart Air should be considered. It may well be short term and flexible. So if Stobart Air decide they now don't wish to operate 3 jetliners, then they become Propius' problem / opportunity.

[compton3bravo]

I think you will find Propius Leasing is owned by Stobart Dave uggh!

[DC3 Dave]

Exactly my point, Compton.

[kar42]

"passengers stranded on runway for six hours" when of course they were still on the parking bay. 😂

As a passenger why would it make any difference to be stranded in a parking bay, unless you are actually allowed off!

[tophat27dt]

As a passenger why would it make any difference to be stranded in a parking bay, unless you are actually allowed off!
...but in this scenario they were waiting to depart!

[Expressflight]

The Stobart Group half-year results published today state that the Flybe franchise is being ended with the jet ops ceasing before the end of March 2019 and the ATR ops ceasing before the end of February 2020. I cannot see any mention of CAX let alone the proposed SEN route to be operated by Loganair.

[asdf1234]

The Stobart Group half-year results published today state that the Flybe franchise is being ended with the jet ops ceasing before the end of March 2019 and the ATR ops ceasing before the end of February 2020. I cannot see any mention of CAX let alone the proposed SEN route to be operated by Loganair.

Just us well the franchise is ending - the cost of operation of the franchise has been huge and has run at a substantial financial loss. I have applauded Stobart for their commitment to the franchise as it has brought in FR and their 3 aircraft however I am surprised at the level of losses involved in running the BE routes. Let's hope having FR at the airport is a profitable proposition.

[southside bobby]

Stobart Group loses £17.5m in the first half of the year.

Stobart Air itself loses £2.7m in the first half of the year.

Blames Flybe franchise.

Re general comments concerning RYR ops above & previously,it defies any commercial logic that RYR require a market to be worked up for them they would be in a sorry state indeed if Stobart were employed or used as a trailblazer.

Other factors in play with RYR/SEN & Stobart appear the more likely.

More heavy overall expenditure yet for Stobart as the SEN R/W upgrade to enable the RYR ops has yet to commence.

RYR will insist on priority with EVERYTHING when ops commence so perhaps if less a/c working out of SEN will be a bonus & less of a headache for Stobart ops.

Legal aftermath of boardroom tussles with certain personalities within Stobart Group continues.

[tophat27dt]

Once Stobart Air cease ops from SEN, I wonder if any of the dumped routes like Rennes, Antwerp, and Groningen would be of interest to others?

[limited_sight]

Once Stobart Air cease ops from SEN, I wonder if any of the dumped routes like Rennes, Antwerp, and Groningen would be of interest to others?

I do not expect the ATR routes to be dumped. They are to be continued for another year (until Feb 2020) under the flybe franchise and then it is unclear. The commercial and operational performance does not seem to be so bad to dump them. Possibly Stobart is looking for a commercial agreement with another airline from spring 2020. But I am sure they will also continue to talk to flybe.

[Cazza_fly]

Essentially the Flybe routes from SEN are of course actually Stobart Air routes using the Flybe brand name / booking engine as part of the franchise. So with that in mind, surely the quoted losses are not down to the flybe franchise but with the Stobart Air routes and operation ex-SEN. I know that's basically what it says, but has been worded well enough to make the blame look like Flybe... Or perhaps they are blaming the IOM operation for the majority of the losses instead?

That aside, this very operation clearly seems to have done its job in attracting new routes and carriers into SEN. Something they probably wouldn't have been able to have done so well on under their own name and i can't realistically think of any other airline than Flybe which would have been a better fit for it.

[compton3bravo]

All I can say Cazza it is a very expensive and damaging way of trying to attract new airlines to Southend. I cannot imagine Stobart making much profit from Ryanair in its first year of operation. They drive a very hard bargain as we all know. Not a good day for all concerned.

[southside bobby]

It is unrealistic to suggest the Stobart Air operation "has done it`s job" & attracted new routes & carriers into SEN.

As usual the statement is "smoke & mirrors" which no one comprehends but at least the shareholders are happy with as previously an increased dividend keeping them sweet.

Outsiders require to read between the lines if they can be bother.

Ryanair will be the cuckoo in the little SEN nest & will insist on priority with every aspect of airfield ops too.

When is the R/W upgrade due to commence?.

[SWBKCB]

It is unrealistic to suggest the Stobart Air operation "has done it`s job" & attracted new routes & carriers into SEN.

Why? this was Stobarts stated aim when they started up the routes. If you know otherwise, why not just say so?

[Expressflight]

It definitely was Stobart's intention to demonstrate to larger carriers that SEN could support untried routes with a view to passing these on to such carriers. You have only to look at the routes which EZY and RYR have taken on in this way. Is it suggested that they would have done so without the Stobart initiative? Rather a coincidence n'est-ce pas? Whether the investment that was needed to achieve their aims was justified only time will tell but it certainly cannot be dismissed at this stage.

[SEN Observer]

Was it not said a while ago (was it in the Irish Times?) that Stobart planned to withdraw two E195 aircraft from SEN? That leaves one so what will be happening with that one, I wonder?

[AirportPlanner1]

I do not expect the ATR routes to be dumped. They are to be continued for another year (until Feb 2020) under the flybe franchise and then it is unclear. The commercial and operational performance does not seem to be so bad to dump them. Possibly Stobart is looking for a commercial agreement with another airline from spring 2020. But I am sure they will also continue to talk to flybe.

I would also be surprised if these routes were “dumped”. If they are loss making, surely they would be wound down this winter along with the rest of the operation. As it stands, these routes offer a niche within the wider London market for which there is no obvious alternative. There might even be an opportunity and a case to scale it up a bit further with another ATR or two, for example the Derry PSO will come up for grabs, there may be others like that or routes that get vacated.

[DC3 Dave]

Was it not said a while ago (was it in the Irish Times?) that Stobart planned to withdraw two E195 aircraft from SEN? That leaves one so what will be happening with that one, I wonder?

Keeping the route to Dublin nicely ticking over until FR take over at the start of April. After that????
​​​​​​

[shamrock7seal]

Risky to announce to the world that Stobart Air will cease all routes from SEN [by 2020]. That is basically exactly what Ryanair is trying to achieve with their SEN ‘base’. Why should Ryanair even follow through with the opening of the actual base (!) or if they do it will last a matter of months before consolidating at STN... with a better deal.

[DC3 Dave]

Risky to announce to the world that Stobart Air will cease all routes from SEN [by 2020]. That is basically exactly what Ryanair is trying to achieve with their SEN ‘base’. Why should Ryanair even follow through with the opening of the actual base (!) or if they do it will last a matter of months before consolidating at STN... with a better deal.



I don't get that at all. I'm sure MAG noted FR's plan, but would hardly be quaking in their boots given the relative size of operations at the Essex airports. They would also be aware that the number of aircraft FR could base at SEN is limited by current physical constraints, so there simply is no threat that a sizeable chunk of the STN operation will move to the south of the county. Ryanair cannot take their base out of STN and put it elsewhere, it's way too big.

I agree that FR would not hesitate to walk away from SEN if they saw a better opportunity, but that's something everyone involved surely understands.

[southside bobby]

A rather soft & skewed post regarding MAG commercial observation & attitude I would venture.

[DC3 Dave]

A rather soft & skewed post regarding MAG commercial observation & attitude I would venture.

You're the expert. What is their view of FR's new base, and do you believe they will react?

[southside bobby]

Interesting too is it not that even six months from the commencement of RYR ops a defensive aura is already appearing.

The post yesterday regarding perhaps a RYR motive toward Stobart Air/STK may or not be with foundation but to many for sure it would have been considered as viable reasoning when the RYR announcement was first made.

Disclaimer....Other options are available.

Ask again...When is the R/W upgrade due to commence to enable RYR ops & estimated cost to the Stobart Group?.

[southside bobby]

It was none too clear...posted yesterday,

"a case to scale up a bit further with another ATR or two,for example the Derry PSO will come up for grabs".

Surely not suggesting the Derry PSO could be flown into SEN?.

That would contradict the reasoning for the Derry service & STN it will be...

STN...With the most Continental connections in Europe bar one.

STN...With the busiest coach station in UK bar Victoria.

STN...Fastest access to Cambridge.

Just speculation of course but it would be the height of comedic quirkiness if a Flybe branded ATR but operated by Stobart Air would be processed at STN by Stobart Handling.

[AirportPlanner1]

Surely not suggesting the Derry PSO could be flown into SEN?.

Well Stobart bid last time around so yes I am. But fundamentally my point was to highlight the types of opportunities out there rather than anything concrete and my language didn’t suggest otherwise.

That would contradict the reasoning for the Derry service & STN it will be...

Really? I understood the PSO to be to London with no specific entry point specified.

STN...With the most Continental connections in Europe bar one.

STN...With the busiest coach station in UK bar Victoria.

STN...Fastest access to Cambridge.

Straight out of the STN marketing brochure. All fantastic, but I wasn’t aware either of those were stipulations of the PSO, and as far as I’m aware connections aren’t offered on the existing service anyway. For access to London, STN has no particular benefit over SEN but that arguments been flogged to death.

[SARF]

Most people in the southend conurbation ****e their pants at having to cross the a127 at peak time..
Never mind the ****eshow that is the a130/a12 junction. Chuck in a school run and you need supplies in your car .
ryanair will always have a market for Dublin from Southend at a low level

[SARF]

Most people in the southend conurbation ****e their pants at having to cross the a127 at peak time..
Never mind the ****eshow that is the a130/a12 junction. Chuck in a school run and you need supplies in your car .
ryanair will always have a market for Dublin from Southend at a low level

[DC3 Dave]

Strange. I see little of a defensive aura here over FR. But someone mentions SEN could try again for a humble PSO route and pop pop pop. But we all know STN will always have more continental connections. We all know STN will always have top class coach services. As for pointing out that Cambridge can be reached faster from STN, well I never.

[shamrock7seal]

‘Top class coach services’ now there’s a sentence you don’t hear very often

[southside bobby]

My post regarding PSO is portrayed incorrectly as may have be assumed it would be beforehand anyway.

"Humble" PSO?.....well hardly you may wish to refer that terminology to the Derry region.

I`m more interested in portraying the advantages to the customer which is the reality & reasoning surely with a PSO...& certainly is not "pop pop pop" & a cut & paste from the STN brochure as alluded to.

Well aware any operator to any "London" airport can bid however in this instance STN compared with SEN for the customer has little contest of course.

Did not mention London access deliberately but was raised in argument anyway as expected.

It is not all about London as Cambridge is a focus area now too.

[Planespeaking]

It seems SEN has won another best airport award, for the third year running.. Well done SEN.

[davidjohnson6]

Winning an industry-best award is great for senior management at the awards dinner party but otherwise pointless. Airlines and (even more so) passengers generally don't care whether you came first or middle-of-the-table when buying an air ticket. Southend is not trying to compete with Farnborough / Biggin Hill for the luxury experience. Acadaemia prizes the A* award, the rest of the world prefers the cheaper-to-achieve-but-good-enough B+
Even the airport which seems regularly to be ranked worst (yes, the one in/near Bedfordshire, I'm looking at you) is seeing huge growth in pax numbers over the last few years

It says to me that the terminal is likely to be significantly underused and (even with Ryanair coming), there should be a significant effort towards pulling in more airlines and routes.

Being able to go through a near-empty airport feels nice at the time but to a passenger an airport is simply a port facility. The people of London and East Anglia are best served when Southend is operating at 90% of capacity - it means high levels of connectivity to the rest of the world, boosts the local economy and leads to strong competition with other airports to ensure everyone involved in air transport is operating at the top of their game

[Planespeaking]

Winning an industry-best award is great for senior management at the awards dinner party but otherwise pointless. Airlines and (even more so) passengers generally don't care whether you came first or middle-of-the-table when buying an air ticket. Southend is not trying to compete with Farnborough / Biggin Hill for the luxury experience. Acadaemia prizes the A* award, the rest of the world prefers the cheaper-to-achieve-but-good-enough B+
Even the airport which seems regularly to be ranked worst (yes, the one in/near Bedfordshire, I'm looking at you) is seeing huge growth in pax numbers over the last few years

It says to me that the terminal is likely to be significantly underused and (even with Ryanair coming), there should be a significant effort towards pulling in more airlines and routes.

Being able to go through a near-empty airport feels nice at the time but to a passenger an airport is simply a port facility. The people of London and East Anglia are best served when Southend is operating at 90% of capacity - it means high levels of connectivity to the rest of the world, boosts the local economy and leads to strong competition with other airports to ensure everyone involved in air transport is operating at the top of their game


Thankyou for your thoughtful input!

[mikkie4]

SOUR GRAPES COMES TO MIND

[DC3 Dave]

A little harsh from DJ, but it's hard to argue with what he's saying.

​​​​​​I would say though that over the last few years, I could highlight maybe half a dozen flights from SEN that I've taken for leisure that I simply wouldn't have bothered with if I'd have to have gone from any other port facility. And I'll shortly be booking a couple of NQY flights. If I had to fly from anywhere else, I'd drive.

So I do hope the management keep trying to make their customers' terminal experience as hassle free and pleasant as possible, investing as necessary as numbers grow. I don't doubt for a moment though, that if Stobart could swop those awards for a couple of million extra pax they most certainly would.

[daz211]

What’s the breakdown of these so called awards ? What’s the Questions that are asked and to whom ?
There is no way that SEN can be put in any category with any major Airports.
Its like putting a 70 year old man into a miss world contest.

or a better example move Southend passengers to LGW, STN or LTN and send their passengers to Southend and see where Southend would come in the rankings.

Im not Bitter I’m just living in the real world.

[LTNman]

It's not just the terminal experience but getting to and from the airport experience.

Still not great at the weekends with a 2 hour travel time by public transport but at least the end is in sight.

Passengers travelling to London

Saturday and Sunday services from London Southend Airport to London (via Shenfield) from 1st September until 25th of November will be replaced by a bus service, calling at all stations between London Southend Airport and Shenfield. There are no planned service interruptions between Shenfield and London Liverpool Street. (Average journey time to London – 2 hours and 3 minutes).

London Southend has also identified faster routes for its passengers:An airport shared taxi service providing a direct connection to Shenfield available from the taxi marshal service at £15 per passenger. Estimated journey time to Shenfield 30 minutes.

X30 bus to Southend Central, connecting you to the c2c line for trains direct to London. Estimated journey time is 11 minutes on bus to Southend Central and one hour from Southend Central on the train. Arriva number 9 bus (located near the Holiday Inn) which stops at Whitegate Road and is a 6-minute walk to Southend Central station, connecting you to the c2c line for trains direct to London.

Please note, passengers travelling to London after 22:45, the airport shared taxi service will provide a direct connection to Leigh-on-Sea only for the c2c line, available from the taxi marshal service at £5 per passenger. [/QUOTE]

[Expressflight]

What’s the breakdown of these so called awards ? What’s the Questions that are asked and to whom ?
There is no way that SEN can be put in any category with any major Airports.
The awards are made by BARUK (Board of Airline Representatives in the UK) and BATA (British Air Transport Association) and SEN won the award for 'Best Airport in the UK with under 3 million passenger per year'. No question then of SEN being compared with "any major Airports". Regardless of the value or otherwise of such an award all I know is that if I were part of SEN's negotiating team trying to attract new airline business I would feel pretty pleased to have this award to mention in any presentations.

Public transport is certainly a current weakness in SEN's offering and hopefully this will improve next year.

[compton3bravo]

Could not agree more Mr Johnson. It is down to practicalities. My UK base has changed to East Sussex from Bedfordshire so I will now be using Gatwick (not my number one airport), nothing against Southend, Norwich etc. it just down to practicalities ie not having to go very far by train, drive etc. Not sour grapes at all Mikkie grow up.

[daz211]

So this say it all about Airport awards, CAX has just won one and there hasn’t even been any flights or passengers yet

from Carlisle airport Facebook.

Carlisle Lake District Airport won the Best General Aviation Airport Award at last night’s AOA Annual Conference Dinner, hosted in Westminster, London. It's a small step in the big picture of the airport's future but one we're immensely proud of! Martin Robinson, the CEO of AOPA, said: "We were pleased to make the award to Carlisle Lake District Airport because of its strategic importance for GA by location." https://tinyurl.com/ycufnf3p

[southside bobby]

Too many awards & too much back slapping...

[DC3 Dave]

STN has your goodself to provide all the back slapping it needs.

To be fair the airport may well be too busy to send staff to award ceremonies.

[Planespeaking]

Too many awards & too much back slapping...
A rather large dose of sour grapes SSB , even by your standards.. Now remind me when did STN win anything other than criticism in recent years?

[southside bobby]

Stobart Air has "gone rogue"...

Will operate 2 ERJ190`s on a 3 year ACMI deal for BAW/CFE from SEN competitor airport LCY.

[irishlad06]

Stobart Air has "gone rogue"...

Will operate 2 ERJ190`s on a 3 year ACMI deal for BAW/CFE from SEN competitor airport LCY.

Where are they getting the aircraft from? They currently have E195’s which cannot operate into LCY.

[DC3 Dave]

Stobart Air to Operate Routes From London City Under BA CityFlyer Brand (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/europe/stobart-air-to-operate-routes-from-london-city-under-ba-cityflyer-brand/)

[BA318]

Where are they getting the aircraft from? They currently have E195’s which cannot operate into LCY.

The article says Nordic Aviation Capital. Same as LOT who recently announced they are leasing four - two of which will fly into LCY from WAW and BUD.

[Expressflight]

Where are they getting the aircraft from? They currently have E195’s which cannot operate into LCY.
Two E190s previously operated by Virgin Australia will be delivered to Stobart Air, one imminently I believe and the other reportedly in February 2019.

[Pain in the R's]

So Stobart has come to the conclusion that its aircraft can't make money flying out of Southend?

[southside bobby]

It certainly appears a slap in the face for SEN doesn`t it.

May also deprive a SEN resident Jota with a lot of income flying for CFE from the City too.

[Planespeaking]

It certainly appears a slap in the face for SEN doesn`t it.

May also deprive a SEN resident Jota with a lot of income flying for CFE from the City too.
There is a German word for it SSB... 'schadenfreude'.. Obtaining pleasure from other's discomfort. One can almost hear you rubbing your hands together! SEN is growing and will keep growing, but it has it's own market and can never compete with your beloved STN. So show a bit of generosity because for some of us your continuing downer on other airports is becoming rather tedious.

[southside bobby]

Purely pointing out the tangled web the Stobart Empire weave & the contradictions that may result.

[good egg]

Anything to do with boardroom squabbling or just bottom-line economics? *ponders*

[DC3 Dave]

Can't really see why this is any form of slight towards SEN. I don't know the full details but these must be routes that BA wish to operate and Stobart have secured a (I assume) valuable contract to provide a full ACMI service. Had Stobart not done so someone else would have.

So BA have plans to expand at LCY. Well, nothing SEN can do could prevent that. And it isn't as if Stobart have pulled aircraft out of Essex to work for BA. Clearly, they have sourced the aircraft specifically for this work alone.

​​​​​​And you never know, all this may enhance the prospects of a couple of BA aircraft being kept busy at the weekend at SEN.

[Planespeaking]

Can't really see why this is any form of slight towards SEN. I don't know the full details but these must be routes that BA wish to operate and Stobart have secured a (I assume) valuable contract to provide a full ACMI service. Had Stobart not done so someone else would have.

So BA have plans to expand at LCY. Well, nothing SEN can do could prevent that. And it isn't as if Stobart have pulled aircraft out of Essex to work for BA. Clearly, they have sourced the aircraft specifically for this work alone.

​​​​​​And you never know, all this may enhance the prospects of a couple of BA aircraft being kept busy at the weekend at SEN.

Exactly Stobart is not going to compete against itself. There are opportunities and synergy....new financial streams and growth at SEN at minimal cost makes economic sense. We shall see!!

[Expressflight]

​​​​​​And you never know, all this may enhance the prospects of a couple of BA aircraft being kept busy at the weekend at SEN.

Interesting thought, now that there is a stronger commercial relationship between BA and Stobart perhaps previous interest might be revived.

[SEN Observer]

What's happened to the Paderborn flights? Were they not due to be up and running by now? Nothing on the arrival/departure boards.

[tophat27dt]

What's happened to the Paderborn flights? Were they not due to be up and running by now? Nothing on the arrival/departure boards.
I believe 6th Nov

[SEN Observer]

Thanks tophat. Initially I think it was October 30th and they are actually shown on FR24's site but they do seem to get things wrong occasionally.

[tophat27dt]

Thanks tophat. Initially I think it was October 30th and they are actually shown on FR24's site but they do seem to get things wrong occasionally.
Yes. Start up is delayed one week for some reason. Never rely on FR24 for schedules. Refer only to the Southend Airport website. ( I see Jota have a passenger charter flight out to Poland later).

[southside bobby]

Interesting that reality is portrayed as a "continuing downer" on here.

Reality suggests 40 further positions being created at LCY by the latest Stobart venture.

Positive & welcome news.

[Expressflight]

I hadn't seen a commencement date previously for the Stobart E190 LCY operations but the Stobart LSE statement issued this morning says 16th November. Than sounds rather sooner than I would have anticipated.

[Expressflight]

I see Jota have a passenger charter flight out to Poland later.

I see that Jota have operated freight flights from Bratislava and Gyor into SEN over the past two days. It's good to see them providing additional traffic for SEN.

[AirportPlanner1]

Never rely on FR24 for schedules. Refer only to the Southend Airport website

I see FR24 is also recording IG Avion as operating, and at a new time, so it must at some point have been planned. Perhaps it’s based on slot allocations or other such data.

Ironically the final month of Chateauroux was its strongest, although an average of 15 pax isn’t great.

[Expressflight]

Ironically the final month of Chateauroux was its strongest, although an average of 15 pax isn’t great.


That is the problem with a small operator starting a previously unserved route. In its first season unless they have the finance to promote and market it sufficiently beforehand it will struggle. I suspect very few of the passengers were of UK domicile as they simply wouldn't have found the route unless they entered 'Chateauroux' in an online travel portal and that they would be unlikely to do unless that small city was their specific destination.

[Tagron]

I think you will find that IG Avion stopped all their other Chateauroux routes at the same time that the SEN route ceased. Their two SF340s are back on what appears to be full time ad hoc charter work, presumably light freight.

[compton3bravo]

Do not get too carried away Expressflight regarding Jota G-JOTE freight flights. A grand total of three revenue earning flights - two to Southend and one to Liverpool in October are not going to bring home the bacon so to speak. Let usvc hope things improve this month with the other three freight aircraft are parked up.

[southside bobby]

What then could be less of a "continuing downer" in postings...?

News that Santa is again adding to the pax numbers at SEN.

Two EZY forty five minute festive flights from SEN on 1.12.18 flown by Santa himself all in aid of local charities.

[Expressflight]

Do not get too carried away Expressflight regarding Jota G-JOTE freight flights. A grand total of three revenue earning flights - two to Southend and one to Liverpool in October are not going to bring home the bacon so to speak. Let usvc hope things improve this month with the other three freight aircraft are parked up.
Have you ever been involved in the air freight business? You don't expect to be inundated with work as soon as you put the aircraft into the market, so one month in I'm sure they will not be concerned. The point I was trying to make was that Jota have very rarely operated revenue charter flights from/to SEN in the past, normally positioning elsewhere to do so, and it was refreshing to see three such flights within as many days.

[runwayman]

First flight on 8th DT

[tophat27dt]

First flight on 8th DT
Ok. Thanks

[AirportPlanner1]

What then could be less of a "continuing downer" in postings...?

News that Santa is again adding to the pax numbers at SEN.

Two EZY forty five minute festive flights from SEN on 1.12.18 flown by Santa himself all in aid of local charities.

Haven’t these been on ATRs in the last few years? Looks like Santa is more popular this year just like the airport

[SEN Observer]

Haven’t these been on ATRs in the last few years? Looks like Santa is more popular this year just like the airport

I think they were EZY last year and JOTA in the years before that; if I'm wrong someone will no doubt put me straight!!

[tophat27dt]

I think they were EZY last year and JOTA in the years before that; if I'm wrong someone will no doubt put me straight!!
I think you are correct.

[southside bobby]

"Can anyone please confirm whether" the SEN terminal is locked up at night "thankyou!!!!".

[DC3 Dave]

Don't answer that, anyone. November 5th's approaching.

[Planespeaking]

"Can anyone please confirm whether" the SEN terminal is locked up at night "thankyou!!!!".

Oh come on SSB, we know SEN isn't your favourite airport, but asking whether the terminal is locked at night just before Guy Fawkes night is a bit obvious!! 🔥

[southside bobby]

Just a rhetorical & tongue in cheek post Dave perhaps you are not up to speed with deleted? postings elsewhere.

Note the "quote" marks.

I thought you were good at this?.

Not sure of November 5th`s sig either.

[DC3 Dave]

Up to speed? Me!!! Bless you!

Is this about the "prodders" debate on the STN thread?

If it is why not air your opinion there? It's totally irrelevant here. No time for sleeping at this airport.

[DC3 Dave]

Santa flights from SEN went on sale this morning and sold out within hours. There's a lesson there. Trouble is I haven't got a clue what it is!

[22/04]

Santa flights from SEN went on sale this morning and sold out within hours

Good to see. When I was young there was more of this sort of thing-my first flight was with Britannia Airways on a one hour pleasure flight during Luton Open Days and my second in a Cessna 172 that operated most Saturday afternoons from the spectators enclosure. It gets people in the air when they otherwise might not. It could happen from many airports-DSA,EXT,BOH,DTV, etc.

Do Easy have a spare aeroplane at SEN to facilitate this or are they bringing in a spare from somewhere else ( there always are more spares in the winter).

[EI-BUD]

So Paderborn, new route from SEN with Adria. How did I miss that. I'm assuming it must have been discussed on here before ...

[inOban]

It certainly has been. I'm sure a quick search would show that.

[stewyb]

Looks like Volotea/TUI weekly flights to PMI end after S19, assume because of competition from both RYR & EZY!

[runwayman]

Adria first flight 2 passengers in & 5 out

[southside bobby]

Ouch...

It can only get better.

Re VOE...Appears SEN have the (RYR) tiger firmly by the tail.

[tophat27dt]

Adria first flight 2 passengers in & 5 out
For sure it can
only get better, but I am concerned the schedule is only for tourists and not appealling to business people enroute to the London area.

[stewyb]

For sure it can
only get better, but I am concerned the schedule is only for tourists and not appealling to business people enroute to the London area.

not surprising, have you seen it’s geographical location amongst fields and forests!

[southside bobby]

Splendid effort...
A community garden featuring 2000 red ceramic poppies made by hundreds of children from 25 schools in the region unveiled on the lawn in front of the terminal today.

[AirportPlanner1]

not surprising, have you seen it’s geographical location amongst fields and forests!

Flights between Paderborn and London have operated for far longer than they haven’t and for a long time supported a daily 737. Unfortunately such low frequency on an off-peak schedule with high fares and no marketing is only going to end badly.

[tophat27dt]

Flights between Paderborn and London have operated for far longer than they haven’t and for a long time supported a daily 737. Unfortunately such low frequency on an off-peak schedule with high fares and no marketing is only going to end badly.
I do tend to agree. Very little marketing in Essex. I don't know about the German side.

[asdf1234]

This should be fun. Share price down to 190p today on the back of the news of the High Court action.Stobart Group Dispute With Former CEO Set For UK High Court[ 12 Nov 2018 09:15 ]
LONDON (Alliance News) - A UK judge is preparing to oversee a High Court battle involving a multimillion-pound infrastructure business which started up in an isolated Lake District village half a century ago.
Bosses at Stobart Group PLC, which began life when founder Eddie Stobart went into business as an agricultural contractor in Hesket Newmarket, Cumbria, in the 1960s, have sued former chief executive Andrew Tinkler.
They say Tinkler conspired with other businessmen to harm the company's interests.
Bosses have also have made claims about money spent on air travel, and want a judge to rule that he was lawfully dismissed.
Tinkler, who was chief executive of the business between 2007 and 2017, denies wrongdoing, saying he was removed for no good reason, and has counter-claimed.
Judge Jonathan Russen is set to start overseeing a trial in London on Monday.

[Pain in the R's]

Worth having a look at the Flybe thread which shows a bar chart of their UK operation . Seems their SEN routes are a horror story of massive loses and is their worst performing airport. I wasn't expecting that!

[DC3 Dave]

If Flybe can sustain heavy losses from an operation where they supposedly take no commercial risk then God help them.

[Cyrano]

If Flybe can sustain heavy losses from an operation where they supposedly take no commercial risk then God help them.
The chart only compares fare revenue per route with estimated operating cost for each route (cost of fuel, aircraft, overhead etc). It doesn't take into account any subsidy paid by Stobart (or Cardiff Airport, or whoever) - how could it? So it could be that the SEN routes are profitable for flyBE, just that the profit is not coming from the fare revenue...

[DC3 Dave]

Fare revenue to whom?

[Cyrano]

Fare revenue to whom?
Fare revenue to the airline, based on the (estimated) average fare charged to the punters. The guys making the chart know that x,000 passengers flew from A to B in September. Their system crawls over the web booking engine on a regular basis from a few months out looking at how much the fare is for all the dates in September. They make some assumptions about the booking curve, i.e. how many people book how long before the flight on which days (and this is where the biggest inaccuracies come in). This lets them estimate roughly how much revenue the airline gets from selling tickets.

[AirportPlanner1]

The SEN data I would assume fails to take into account ancillary income from car parking and terminal spend which I would imagine to be considerable. For sure it’s loss making, but not as extreme as made out

[LTNman]

Still not a great to be bottom of the list. Are Flybe SEN routes all new? I have totally lost the plot with Southend. Are Flybe routes actually Stobart Air routes?

[AirportPlanner1]

Still not a great to be bottom of the list. Are Flybe SEN routes all new? I have totally lost the plot with Southend. Are Flybe routes actually Stobart Air routes?

Yes they are all Stobart Air routes. I don’t think any were new in 2018 but all E195 routes from 2017 that carried on did considerably better in terms of loads. The ATR routes also tick over nicely and it’s these which will continue except MAN which is going, to be replaced by 2x daily Rennes (currently op by the E195) and Newquay. MAN hasn’t been the total disaster though many thought it would, there were 49 for example on board my flight last week. Loads have been variable though, my 15 flights have ranged from 10 to 65.

[SWBKCB]

Still not a great to be bottom of the list.

Jesus - lets take some figures derived by a simplistic methodology, ignore any caveats and use them out of context to draw conclusions.

I might as well be at work :sad:

[Sharklet_321]

Any fool can fill an aircraft. Load factor means sod-all.

[tophat27dt]

Any fool can fill an aircraft. Load factor means sod-all.
Very true but I hope by now everyone knows that.

[Expressflight]

The based EZY fleet mix has changed slightly recently and now comprises 2 x A319 and 2 x A320ceo. An A320neo will arrive in a few days but I don't know if that is a permanent replacement for one of the A320ceo.

[DC3 Dave]

I read on another thread that Flybe are dropping NQY-LGW next year, choosing LHR instead.

Any pluses or minuses for SEN-NQY?

[canberra97]

I read on another thread that Flybe are dropping NQY-LGW next year, choosing LHR instead.

Any pluses or minuses for SEN-NQY?

Where would Flybe be obtaining expensive and extremely rare slots from at LHR for a flight to Newquay, it would have to be at least twice daily and considering the financial status of the airline I find it very odd to say the least especially as the only slots the airline hold at LHR are the remedy slots used on ABZ and EDI which cannot be used on any other route other than those two.

LGW to NQY is a PSO route and moving it to LHR would be a strange move.

Do you have a link to this other thread?

[BA318]

Its being reported this morning. The route will be four times daily. Lots of articles mention that the service is following an agreement between LHR, The Government and Flybe. The local MP has lobbied hard for this and I assume LHR are happy to help as it boosts their argument that LHR expansion will mean better domestic connections. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-devon-46237170?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_spotlight&ns_linkname=english_regions&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn%3Aasset%3A2d2e4318-43ac-4e34-b403-4fd3f790831e&pinned_post_asset_id=5bf658732d48630667fe9200&pinned_post_type=share

According to twitter these are the timings:
BE801 NQY 0720-0830 LHR
BE803 NQY 1055-1205 LHR
BE805 NQY 1430-1540 LHR
BE807 NQY 1845-1955 LHR

BE802 LHR 0915-1025 NQY
BE804 LHR 1245-1355 NQY
BE806 LHR 1620-1730 NQY
BE808 LHR 2040-2150 NQY

[canberra97]

Well if true good for Flybe and for NQY getting a LHR connection again after all these years since Brymon were flying the route.

[BA318]

Well if true good for Flybe and for NQY getting a LHR connection again after all these years since Brymon were flying the route.

I'm not sure the need to question it. I've linked to the BBC which is as reputable a source as any. It's also been tweeted by Heathrow and Newquay and the local MP.

[Planespeaking]

Well if true good for Flybe and for NQY getting a LHR connection again after all these years since Brymon were flying the route.

Forgive me perhaps I'm missing something but why is a service between LHR and NQY being posted on the SEN thread?

[canberra97]

Forgive me perhaps I'm missing something but why is a service between LHR and NQY being posted on the SEN thread?

It may well be the case that now that Flybe have obtained slots for a NQY to LHR route and the discontinuing of NQY to LGW that the planned NQY to SEN might now even get shelved.

Perhaps that is the reason it's being mentioned on the Southend thread!

[compton3bravo]

Four return services a day, bit over the top. Could think of better use of those slots. Of course all this depends on Flybe surviving the winter.

[PDXCWL45]

Four return services a day, bit over the top. Could think of better use of those slots. Of course all this depends on Flybe surviving the winter.
They operated Gatwick 3 daily on the E195 4 daily won't be a problem and provides Newquay the hub route it's been looking for.

[GROUNDHOG]

Forgive me perhaps I'm missing something but why is a service between LHR and NQY being posted on the SEN thread?
Ironically it may well have relevance to SEN.
As a west country resident using NQY/LGW for European connections I would now almost certainly switch to NQY/SEN rather than LHR because the airport is so user friendly.
LHR for long haul of course so this change may just bring some benefits to SEN and in that respect is relevant.

[Planespeaking]

Ironically it may well have relevance to SEN.
As a west country resident using NQY/LGW for European connections I would now almost certainly switch to NQY/SEN rather than LHR because the airport is so user friendly.
LHR for long haul of course so this change may just bring some benefits to SEN and in that respect is relevant.
Thankyou Groundhog, let's hope others from NQY find SEN also preferable.