Southend-2

[Tagron]

Whilst each department needs a competent chief, it's the XRay machines and staff that are needed immediately. Why delay things until a new security chief starts. The Airport CEO should sort out the problem before then.

My post simply reported that a replacement Head of Security was being sought. It said nothing about delaying things until after the appointment, for the simple reason that I do not know and have no means of knowing. Should we assume you know the answer or is this guesswork ?

[LTNman]

Sounds like SEN is a now victim of its own success - No longer the quick and easy airport to swan through with ease if the security Q's are 30+ minutes.

Was it not somewhat predictable. The only surprise is that it has happened with a relatively low passenger figure.

[Planespeaking]

[QUOTE=LTNman;10470274]Was it not somewhat predictable. The only surprise is that it has happened with a relatively low passenger figure.[/QUOTE

Of course it was going to happen as the airport's success begins to put pressure on facilities, and I am disappointed at the the management not doing forward planning.

Meanwhile back at LTN .....!!

[davidjohnson6]

Flew Southend-Brest with FR. Yesterday FR were selling tickets for 5 pounds one way (yes, less than APD). Even at that price, load factor was just 55% in mid May and there were just 20 bags checked in

I imagine that during school holidays in peak summer things will be better, but I imagine people in Dublin will be reviewing the profitability of this route carefully

[AirportPlanner1]

Flew Southend-Brest with FR. Yesterday FR were selling tickets for 5 pounds one way (yes, less than APD). Even at that price, load factor was just 55% in mid May and there were just 20 bags checked in

I imagine that during school holidays in peak summer things will be better, but I imagine people in Dublin will be reviewing the profitability of this route carefully

I thought this one may be a dud. Perversely I think if it were more regular it may do better, but I think at twice a week it’s too many seats to fill for such inflexibility.

[DC3 Dave]

Correct me if I'm wrong - usually you are all too polite to do so - I believe SEN is the only UK destination from Brest. So you would expect a healthy demand in both directions surely?

[SWBKCB]

or maybe thats the reason it's not served from anywhere else!

[Expressflight]

Other than SEN the only other UK airports serving Brest seem to be BHX and SOU, both once weekly by BE DH8. Quimper is only 75km distant and that used to be served from LCY but I don't think that is so this year. It does seem rather odd that it cannot support more connections to the UK.

[davidjohnson6]

BACF are flying 3x weekly (4x weekly in peak summer) between London City and Quimper this year until early Sept

[DC3 Dave]

You can now book until the end of May 2020 with FR to DUB.

[SARF]

Have the military landed at Southend.? Thought I glimpsed a Hercules over Leigh

[tophat27dt]

Have the military landed at Southend.? Thought I glimpsed a Hercules over Leigh
Yes. RAF C130 from Cambridge training

[tws123]

You can now book until the end of May 2020 with FR to DUB.

Both DUB and PMI are available to book up to 22nd August 2020.

[gizmo71]

Yes. RAF C130 from Cambridge training

Ah, thanks for that, I saw it too (from Wickford) and wondered what it was up to.

[SEN Observer]

The Wells Avenue complainers have now had their 5 minutes of glory on tonight's One Show. There was an "expert" there measuring the air pollution and it seems that is lower in their garden than on the roads! The camera angle made it look as though the wing tip was over the fence which of course it was not. Usual moans about the noise too. Complaints are still going to be made but it looks like it just going to be a case of head and brick wall. Call it up on i-player as tis well worth a watch

[mik3bravo]

FR2720 SEN - DUB 19:55 19052019

a/c still on stand, not pushed back. Anyone got insight into reason for this evenings problems getting this flight going on time?

[SealinkBF]

Apparently it landed at 2257 in SEN. Not sure why there was a delay

[DC3 Dave]

I think you mean DUB at 2157 BST. Strange day, with significant delays to 3/4 of EZY's early departures, only for FR to be struggling to get their 738's home before the curfew.

[LTNman]

Their Milan flight arrives back gone midnight. Ryanair don’t give themselves much leeway with this flight. Wonder who picks up the extra wage bill?

[tophat27dt]

FR2720 SEN - DUB 19:55 19052019

a/c still on stand, not pushed back. Anyone got insight into reason for this evenings problems getting this flight going on time?
Many of the early morning departures westbound were delayed by French ATC restrictions, and the airlines were unable to catch up. I'm not sure but I think the Dublin flight might have departed 45 mins late.

[mik3bravo]

Heard problem with battery / APU, called Stobart ground handling for jump start

[Expressflight]

Their Milan flight arrives back gone midnight. Ryanair don’t give themselves much leeway with this flight. Wonder who picks up the extra wage bill?
The Sunday Milan has an ETA of 23:25 into SEN and there is not, of course, any "curfew" as was suggested by another poster.

[DC3 Dave]

I shouldn't have used ''curfew". No commercial aircraft can be scheduled to land after 2330, although they may do so if they are delayed.

[tophat27dt]

Heard problem with battery / APU, called Stobart ground handling for jump start
How terrible!

[Expressflight]

FR2720 SEN - DUB 19:55 19052019 a/c still on stand, not pushed back. Anyone got insight into reason for this evenings problems getting this flight going on time?

I assume you were on the flight. Didn't the crew say anything to the pax during this apparently lengthy delay?

[mart901]

Their Milan flight arrives back gone midnight. Ryanair don’t give themselves much leeway with this flight. Wonder who picks up the extra wage bill?
Well FR don't pay their own crew during delays so I hardly think they'd be paying anyone else's

[compton3bravo]

There is a prospective executive charter for the Champions League final in Madrid being operated from Southend. The only problem is the aircraft's destination in Spain is Zaragoza over 300 kilometres away! Then I assume a minibus ride to Madrid on a motorway which is quite busy by Spain standards. If they cannot get a slot near Madrid both Salamanca or Valladolid are over 100 kilometres nearer. The cost by the way is well over four figures per person.

[virginblue]

Is MAD slot constrained? I would be surprised if that was the case.

[AirportPlanner1]

Is MAD slot constrained? I would be surprised if that was the case.

It probably is for the CL final, they’ll have their normal traffic + additional flights, charters, corporates. If not slot constrained probably parking constrained.

[pabely]

It probably is for the CL final, they’ll have their normal traffic + additional flights, charters, corporates. If not slot constrained probably parking constrained.

UPDATE 5/10/19: Special slot allocation rules are in effect May 30-June 3 at LEMD, with May 15 being the deadline for slot requests.
UPDATE 5/10/19: Time on ground will be limited to 4 hours on May 30-31

[southender]

Good day for SEN today, seven different airline/operators in. How long since there’s been such diversity?

[DC3 Dave]

It appears SEN is introducing a chargable drop off / pick up zone.

hittps://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17656613.southend-airport-revamps-car-parking/ (https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17656613.southend-airport-revamps-car-parking/)

Mr Jones seems to be reluctant to call it that.

[LTNman]

£3 for 10 minutes matches Luton’s drop off charge but Luton offers 1 hour free parking in their long term car park. Stansted charge £3.50 while Gatwick is free as is I believe Heathrow. Not sure about City.

If there is one thing that winds up passengers like nothing else it is the drop off charge so this will chip away at Southend’s image.

[davidjohnson6]

With Easyjet and Ryanair having non-trivial operations at Southend, the airport will be considered as a credible airport both by people living in London/Essex and also by other airlines. It's taken a while to reach this stage, but they have now arrived.

The time has come to shift away from desperately trying to win the beauty parade... to focussing on being a profitable business

[tws123]

Don’t forget there is still the free 15 minutes parking at Long Stay 3 car park opposite the Holiday Inn which is a 5 minute walk to the terminal. So there is still a free drop off/pick up point available for those who want to save £3.

[mik3bravo]

It appears SEN is introducing a chargable drop off / pick up zone.

hittps://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17656613.southend-airport-revamps-car-parking/ (https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17656613.southend-airport-revamps-car-parking/)

Mr Jones seems to be reluctant to call it that.
For some, drop offs begin over at McDonalds :O

[SARF]

Indeed. It’s a well trodden route !

[Expressflight]

The reason for the Flybe SEN-ANR rroute not being bookable beyond October is presumably because KLM and Cityjet are establishing Air Antwerp, whose first route will be ANR-LCY using F50 equipment. Other routes from ANR are planned and an aircraft upgrade can be expected once the routes establish their viability.

[rog747]

Drop off charges should be illegal and are disgusting

[SWBKCB]

Drop off charges should be illegal and are disgusting

How are they any different from other charges - car parking, bags, etc?

[jdcg]

Drop off charges should be illegal and are disgusting
I think it felt like that when they were first introduced but in reality, if they didn't charge, everyone would be dropping off and clogging up the roads everywhere.
What is disgusting is deliberately splitting people up with a seating algorithm so you have to pay to sit together. I don't care where I sit but, if I'm travelling with my wife, I think it's immoral to split people up in order to extract more money.

[rog747]

They don't charge at LHR - so works OK at one of worlds largest

It all just extortion - seat charges bag charges drop off charges airport levy name mistake charges - Greed and a rip off as we all know it

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

How are they any different from other charges - car parking, bags, etc?
1999 you would have strongly disagreed with 2019 you on this I bet.
The modern airline business conditions you to accept what was once abhorrent as the new norm, times change.
1999 you would be outraged at paying for seats for example, or flying long haul with no food.
Why not charge for security or access to the terminal building? Anyone who doesn't pay can queue outside for basic security entrance at a side door, all to the same standard as DfT but the experience not so good cos you didn't pony up.

In terms of customer experience, the scores have plummeted if you lack status and don't see these charges outright. If you fly from one of the more marginal UK airports, they REALLY need the revenue stream so they'll milk you for every penny, otherwise they'd do a Blackpool. As for LHR's drop off being free, that's likely to go in part for expansion as the green lobby will be thrown a sop.

[SWBKCB]

1999 me would probably look at how many flights I take and how much I pay in 2019 and say "looks like a good deal." People always forget that bit when they trot out "Greed and a rip off".

Flying now is dirt cheap compared to 1999, so the money has to come from somewhere. If not drop off charges and charging for seats, what would you prefer - higher fares? Any other suggestions, as the public have already voted with their feet on that one.

[aurigny72]

For some, drop offs begin over at McDonalds :O
Yes i think its 3 hours free parking at the retail park and only a couple of minutes walk to the terminal.

[DC3 Dave]

A few diversions accepted this evening due to continuing runway issues at STN. Which just goes to prove length isn't everything.

[SARF]

You could call it a rip off. Or just an itemised bill

[Expressflight]

A useful addition to the public transport options between London and SEN commences on 8th June. The Jetlink X1 service will run daily from London Victoria departing at 03:05 and arriving SEN at 04:35, catering for the first wave of morning flight departures, while a SEN departure at 23:40 and arriving London Victoria at 01:15 caters for the late evening arrival wave. The double-decker coach also calls at Embankment, Canning Town and Lakeside. Adult fare is £15 single.

[Barling Magna]

A more than useful addition, I reckon.

[mikkie4]

EZY to restart the LYON flights starting in october

[mikkie4]

seems to be some confusion over the LYON flights, SEN destinations page say starting in October,nothing about it from EZY

[DC3 Dave]

[QUOTE=Skipness One Foxtrot;10478053 As for LHR's drop off being free, that's likely to go in part for expansion as the green lobby will be thrown a sop.[/QUOTE]

How right your words have proved to be...

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/heathrow-plans-its-own-ulez-for-drivers-doing-dropoff-at-up-to-15-a-day-a4150576.html

Perhaps £3 doesn't seem so bad.......

[SARF]

Thin end of a fat wedge

[Spanish eyes]

I see Southend has the longest average flight delays of any small airport in the UK during 2018 and in fact its average delay is greater than Heathrow. So why would that be?

[Albert Hall]

Stobart punctuality last summer with the E195 problems. A big impact on a relatively small total number of flights at the airport as a whole will produce a nasty headline.

[Expressflight]

I see Southend has the longest average flight delays of any small airport in the UK during 2018 and in fact its average delay is greater than Heathrow. So why would that be?
Any member of the public reading the results of that survey won't be thinking about the size of the airport. They'll just notice which have the least delay and which have the most. They'll see that STN was worst at 25 minutes (as the BBC headline says "London Stansted airport 'worst in UK for delays' ") and LTN second worst at 19 minutes and then, maybe, read down a bit further and find SEN at 15 minutes. As Albert Hall says that poor performance was down to the unreliability of STK's E195s, as I remember well from my own bad experience there on more than one occasion.

[DC3 Dave]

The piece in the local paper supports Expressflight's point with STN grabbing the wrong kind of headline. No mention of Southend.


https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17667890.stansted-airport-was-worst-in-uk-for-delays-in-2018/

[Red Four]

Loganair's Glasgow and Stornoway service started this morning. I see Stornoway not individually listed on LSA departures, presumably as it is via a stop at GLA.

[Expressflight]

Yes, 30 minute stop at GLA but no aircraft change.

[Expressflight]

The Stobart Group Final Results for the year ending 28th February 2019 include a statement that "Connect Airways will identify cost synergies between Stobart Air and Flybe ......... and develop a London connectivity strategy which will involve London Southend Airport." It will be interesting to see what tangible results that produces for SEN, although probably not before Spring 2020 I would suggest.

[DC3 Dave]

In the final results Warwick Brady concluded by making a bold prediction.......

Stobart Group now intends to invest in developing a 10m+ passenger airport and the infrastructure required to maintain a supply chain to deliver 2m tonnes per annum of biomass fuel. The Group will also invest in core IT and central services, including our people while retaining an appropriate Group cost base. The majority of our investment will be focused on London Southend Airport and will be partly funded by the receipt of over £50m raised through the issuance of an exchangeable bond secured over our shares in Eddie Stobart Logistics plc, further asset sales and cash generated from operating businesses.

Well, I guess it's good that the airport will receive more investment. Going to need some serious development to realise Mr Brady's vision. Or is he talking biomass?

[southside bobby]

All very well BUT...

Stobart Group `surge` to £58m loss.Burning through shareholder cash faster than ever & still selling assets it appears.

The SEN window dressing has not masked most of the bad financial headlines unfortunately.

[Expressflight]

All very well BUT...
Stobart Group `surge` to £58m loss.Burning through shareholder cash faster than ever & still selling assets it appears.
The SEN window dressing has not masked most of the bad financial headlines unfortunately.
That must be why the share price is up 10% this morning.

[Planespeaking]

All very well BUT...

Stobart Group `surge` to £58m loss.Burning through shareholder cash faster than ever & still selling assets it appears.

The SEN window dressing has not masked most of the bad financial headlines unfortunately.

Good ol' SSB...meanwhile back at STN!!

[asdf1234]

That must be why the share price is up 10% this morning.

Pretty awful results again and more assets sold to support the investment in the airport(s). Now that the Eddie Stobart shares have been mortgaged there is little left to support any further investment after the payment of dividends is catered for. Dividend payments are down 50%. Share price has been on the slide since the pre-close statement in March where the future dividend was cut again to 6p per annum (it was 18p in 2018, cut to 9p in 2019 all of which was funded by asset sales).

Share price movement today is the accumulation of trades coming through in the closed period - essentially bets. For a better picture look at the share price on Friday, one week after last Friday when shares closed at 107p, down from 225p one year ago.

How can the existing infrastructure support 5m pax let alone the target of 10m pax? Security and terminal is struggling with the new pax for the Ryanair flights. The airport will need remote stands on the North side and possible a remote terminal on the North side too. A parallel taxiway would also be required to support peak time aircraft movements. These can all be achieved at a price but what about car parking? The estate is not large enough to create additional parking unless a multi-storey facility can be included without impinging on the runway clearances and the radar coverage.

Exciting times ahead if Stobart can finish the infrastructure improvements before the cash runs out. Given the burn rate to date I can see the cash running out first.

[Barling Magna]

10million....? An annual total of 5 million pax seems the maximum possible to me, but that assumes major new terminal developments. Maybe they plan to take over the retail park and bulldoze it.....?

[mik3bravo]

Pretty awful results again and more assets sold to support the investment in the airport(s). Now that the Eddie Stobart shares have been mortgaged there is little left to support any further investment after the payment of dividends is catered for. Dividend payments are down 50%. Share price has been on the slide since the pre-close statement in March where the future dividend was cut again to 6p per annum (it was 18p in 2018, cut to 9p in 2019 all of which was funded by asset sales).

Share price movement today is the accumulation of trades coming through in the closed period - essentially bets. For a better picture look at the share price on Friday, one week after last Friday when shares closed at 107p, down from 225p one year ago.

How can the existing infrastructure support 5m pax let alone the target of 10m pax? Security and terminal is struggling with the new pax for the Ryanair flights. The airport will need remote stands on the North side and possible a remote terminal on the North side too. A parallel taxiway would also be required to support peak time aircraft movements. These can all be achieved at a price but what about car parking? The estate is not large enough to create additional parking unless a multi-storey facility can be included without impinging on the runway clearances and the radar coverage.

Exciting times ahead if Stobart can finish the infrastructure improvements before the cash runs out. Given the burn rate to date I can see the cash running out first.
They'll do a round of presentations to investors overseas I reckon, and will drum up investment capital in another round.

[aurigny72]

10million....? An annual total of 5 million pax seems the maximum possible to me, but that assumes major new terminal developments. Maybe they plan to take over the retail park and bulldoze it.....?Yes i agree 10 million pax is just more Stobart spin and would not be achievable as the infrastructure and space is just not there to attain that amount of capacity, however i have to say that Stobart have done a fantastic job over the last 10 years in turning a dying airport with just one flight a week, summer only Jersey service into what it is today. There were a lot of doubters that never thought that Easyjet would ever start a base here and now we have a Ryanair base as well, which would have been a pipe dream even a year or so ago, plus now other airlines such as Flybe/Stobart Air, Air Malta, Loganair and Blue Islands operating. Wonder who will be next?.

[LTNman]

Most of those 10 million would arrive by road. Don’t think the local road network would cope.

[tws123]

I see Warwick Brady says that the recent runway improvements allow for bigger aircraft such as the A321. Could the A321 operate commercially from SEN?

[AirportPlanner1]

=centerWonder who will be next?.


FlyOne! Although I do wonder how they will be able to compete at just once weekly (twice over summer holidays) against Wizz and Air Moldova

[davidjohnson6]

Southend has bitten off a lot in terms of annual growth rate with Ryanair basing aircraft at SEN, and experiencing a bit of indigestion (eg security screening queues). Perhaps time to focus on ironing out all the kinks in standard daily operations.

Flights that are full in July/August with small children and people who fly just once a year will exert a greater strain than those in May. Other airlines may be watching to see how SEN performs in early August to verify operational robustness before any kind of new route announcement

[SARF]

Other airlines will being looking at loads and pounds per customer .. and of course if they can start anything that Ryanair or easyJet won’t nick 6 months after start up.
‘Check in and security are all stobarts problem as they pretty much own all of it. As mentioned often on here, no one is buying pints of beer, coffee, books n papers, or sweets and sandwiches at inflated airport prices if they are stuck in a Q

[LTNman]

So why has SEN been caught out? Stobart will know the airports hourly capacity and how to increase it. If it is staffing levels and training unlike other airports they control everything so the buck stops with them so they should have had that fixed before the first Ryanair passenger arrived.

If it is physical terminal constraints that will be harder to fix in the short term but in the meantime the big selling point for Southend will soon be forgotten by the travelling public.

As for a 10 million passenger Southend I think that would be hard to swallow for the council and would be rejected. The local council at Stansted voted in favour of that airports latest expansion and then got voted out of power by independent residents who stood for election in protest.

[Expressflight]

FlyOne! Although I do wonder how they will be able to compete at just once weekly (twice over summer holidays) against Wizz and Air Moldova
Interestingly you can through book SEN to Moscow (VKO) on FlyOne, via Chisinau (KIV) of course.

[DC3 Dave]

I see Warwick Brady says that the recent runway improvements allow for bigger aircraft such as the A321. Could the A321 operate commercially from SEN?



On YouTube you will find Glyn Jones claiming that the work will allow A321 operations. In the video he mentions Wizz, so perhaps the possibility of that airline adding SEN still exists.


https://youtu.be/qf7ZmazdjfM

[SARF]

i think the retail park is gonna get it at some stage. I was looking to see if you have access from aviation way but it would have to go under the runway. Too expensive

[southside bobby]

A cautionary tale has been posted earlier regarding the planning permission for the next phase of development at STN & therefore prospects for SEN.

Luckily permission for STN was granted before the local elections with indeed then a major change in Councillor line up with most/all against the further development however it was finally accepted & stated permission cannot be retrospectively revoked after much legal consultation conducted over that w/end.

So the big dollar question foremost for SEN/here would be what is the current max permitted passenger thru put ? & how much greater in percentage terms would 10 or even 15m pax per year equate to, then perhaps take the reality check/view regarding the unsuitability of the site in every aspect & ask if a public enquiry would approve such an expansion & which political hand would be prepared to sign it off.

All politics...European,Governmental & local are becoming daily more vocal against aviation expansion.

The one hope for aviation in the UK would be "BJ" & then all the London Airport`s can be moved out to sea which should have happened 40/50 years ago TBH.

[SARF]

Most of the Southend conurbation are in favour of the airport and certainly any current expansion.
‘It just doesn’t affect most people in the area and is hugely popular come holiday time.
‘Maybe the golf course will get ripped up,after the retail park

[southside bobby]

Admire the optimism...

Anyways what is the current max permitted passenger capacity at the mo?

[SARF]

Boris island is a ludicrous idea. You have people travelling all the way from west of London to further east than Southend to fly long haul... the whole infrastructure surrounding Heathrow and the m4 corridor, and all the business located there will have zero interest in that ..
more by luck than design there are three/four international airports around London. That isn’t going to change .
the rise of the regional airport will continue for a while yet, especially with the improvements in airplane performance

[Planespeaking]

A cautionary tale has been posted earlier regarding the planning permission for the next phase of development at STN & therefore prospects for SEN.

Luckily permission for STN was granted before the local elections with indeed then a major change in Councillor line up with most/all against the further development however it was finally accepted & stated permission cannot be retrospectively revoked after much legal consultation conducted over that w/end.

So the big dollar question foremost for SEN/here would be what is the current max permitted passenger thru put ? & how much greater in percentage terms would 10 or even 15m pax per year equate to, then perhaps take the reality check/view regarding the unsuitability of the site in every aspect & ask if a public enquiry would approve such an expansion & which political hand would be prepared to sign it off.

All politics...European,Governmental & local are becoming daily more vocal against aviation expansion.

The one hope for aviation in the UK would be "BJ" & then all the London Airport`s can be moved out to sea which should have happened 40/50 years ago TBH.

That ship sailed with the Roskill Commission back in the 60s and 70s SSB.Hence therise of STN to become the third London airport. An estuary airport on reclaimed land would have been hugely expensive, together with costly road and rail links to London. In addition there is the problem of sea fog and Brent geese arriving at their traditional feeding grounds, and much of this area is now covered by vast numbers of wind turbines, I cannot see our Green friends being too happy seeing these being grubbed up to be replaced by 12000ft runways. I think it is going to be hard enough getting another runway into LHR.
We may just be seeing peak London airport capaciry.

[southside bobby]

Anyways back to SEN can I ask again what is the permitted max passenger capacity at the moment please?

In light of the recent posts here it would be a relevant question.

[Planespeaking]

Anyways back to SEN can I ask again what is the permitted max passenger capacity at the moment please?

In light of the recent posts here it would be a relevant question.
I thought it was 2.5m, but I'm happy to be corrected.

[southside bobby]

OMG...Apologies I knew I should not have mentioned the "Estuary" .

Don`t worry I have chapter & verse on the whole subject.

The comment was really just illustrative of the predicament of everything in the UK...politics...planning...infrastructure et al.

[southside bobby]

2.5m capacity sounds a reasonable max permitted level at the present time.

The SEN Director is in print previously with a total of 15m so even to 10m (which is todays story) as a percentage it is huge growth leap which in todays climate (bit of a pun) is going to be a very tough proposition to negotiate it would appear.

LHR RW3 is almost certainly not going to happen.

Bristol Airport is up against it now with it`s proposals for expansion.

HS2 is almost certainly not going to happen.

STN would not have won it`s own permissions if the new Council had been in place.

[Tagron]

There is no maximum permitted annual passenger level at SEN at present.

[southside bobby]

Perhaps to ask in a different form...

What are the constraints imposed by the local Council then when planning permission was granted?

Is SEN constrained with upper ATM limits perhaps.

Planning permission would have been granted only with operating constraints surely as that would be due process.

[Expressflight]

The total ATM limit is 53,300 excluding 'Exempt' ATMs. The latter comprise Police, medevac, military, Coastguard and Government flights and emergency (not weather related) diversions.

I would suggest that the chances of Southend Borough Council agreeing a future increase in ATM numbers would be very slim.

[AirportPlanner1]

STN would not have won it`s own permissions if the new Council had been in place.

Not quite true. Refusals can be appealed to the Planning Inspectorate which is independent, moreover if the refusal was unreasonable the Council would have costs awarded against them. Due to the nature of the applications this would be considerable, and could soon turn politically toxic for the administration. Even more generally within the planning system (housing etc) these residents groups have over-promised on matters for which they’re ill-informed and now they’re in power the realisation is coming fast that they can’t do what they told voters they would.

Fighting for re-election in four years on a platform of cutting all services because your decision-making has bankrupted the Council isn’t a good look.

[good egg]

Sorry, I’m being lazy...how many (qualifying) movements last year?

[rog747]

Re A321 ops at SEN - The runway is 1850m TDA (which is not TORA, nor TODR)

An A321 cannot take off from Skiathos with a full load with the fuel needed to get back to UK - The JSI runway is 1630m TDA
They have to tech stop at anywhere as far up as Corfu - but often at nearer airports Volos Lemnos Kavala or SKG - sometimes with split pax loads.

The new A321 Neo at SEN it maybe possible to achieve the like of the Canaries and Corfu without the payload penalty of the current A320 and that is why SEN M.D has hinted they are doing £10m of works on the runway to enable the A321 to operate.

Remains to be seen on what route lengths they can achieve with SEN's runway re both Take-off's and landings using the much longer A321 and is the A321Neo the better option?

I am not sure if the new EZY A320Neo is still payload restricted to the Canaries as is their A320 CFM powered a/c.

[southside bobby]

Basically correct of course AirportPlanner1 but the application/reapplication process would have run on & on with far more delaying/aborting attempts from the "new age" lobbyist groups now & the ever present SSE.

[Expressflight]

Sorry, I’m being lazy...how many (qualifying) movements last year?



Total ATMs in 2018 were 32,531. How many of those were 'Exempt' I don't know but not a huge number so safe to say 'qualifying' ATMs were around 32,000. Commercial Movements were 17,613 and Aero Club and Private aircraft movements totalled just over 10,000 so it's easy to see which movements will be curtailed to provide more Commercial Movement capacity when needed.

[SWBKCB]

The total ATM limit is 53,300 excluding 'Exempt' ATMs.

10m divided by 53,300 = 187!

[SARF]

146 take offs and landings a day. That security Q will be starting at Mac Donald’s !

[LTNman]

So who owns the freehold of Southend Airport? Not Stobart but the council. The freeholder could just say no which would stop Stobart in their tracks regardless of any planning application.

10million is a ridiculous number that only plane spotters would support. A quick look at google maps shows the airport access is via the local road network and is not served directly by easy access dual carriageways that bypass the town. 10 million passengers would have a major impact on local roads and residents lives who need to be heard.

[stewyb]

10m is utter pie in the sky and will never happen, nor will it be allowed. Those connected to the airport want to run before they even walk and to date the airport is only managing 1.5m pa. Sure this will rise but I cannot see a threshold above 4-5m, ever!

[davidjohnson6]

Luton in 1997 had just over 3 million pax. In 2017 it had almost 16 million. The expansion proposals seem to indicate Luton serving up to about 35 million pax per year

If demand at Southend is strong enough (and with Heathrow R3 permanently on hold, demand will go somewhere) then corporate cash will eventually find a way to expand at Southend with the promise of jobs as a sop for the local council / voters

10m pax at Southend in 2021 ? Not a chance
10m pax at Southend in 2031 ? Wouldn't rule it out

[DC3 Dave]

This is what I love about this thread. I posted this morning, then commitments took me elsewhere. Returning, I find over 20 further contributions. And ​​​dj6 not ruling out 10m pax takes me to a place so far in the future I do not normally go there. After a thoughtful Cotes du Rhone (or two), I have to agree it could happen - despite previously stating it wasn't possible - because, like dj6 and our dear friend southside, I cannot see R3 at LHR in my lifetime, and if London remains one of the great global capitals, then aviation demand will surely have to be absorbed by other London airports.

[AirportPlanner1]

Basically correct of course AirportPlanner1 but the application/reapplication process would have run on & on with far more delaying/aborting attempts from the "new age" lobbyist groups now & the ever present SSE.

Again, not quite true. For a national infrastructure application such as Heathrow’s new runway indeed things could be kicked into the long grass. For more ‘general’ applications such as the recent one to Uttlesford there would be a set timeframe to handle the appeal. Of course, the Secretary of State could call any application in but again there *should* be compelling reasons for doing so and an unlawful/unreasonable decision could be challenged. In any case, intervention should come with relatively minimal delay.

[LTNman]

Luton in 1997 had just over 3 million pax. In 2017 it had almost 16 million. The expansion proposals seem to indicate Luton serving up to about 35 million pax per year

If demand at Southend is strong enough (and with Heathrow R3 permanently on hold, demand will go somewhere) then corporate cash will eventually find a way to expand at Southend with the promise of jobs as a sop for the local council / voters

10m pax at Southend in 2021 ? Not a chance
10m pax at Southend in 2031 ? Wouldn't rule it out

SEN is a far more constrained site than Luton which has a direct dual carriageway to the M1 which is around 2 miles away. The first issue for SEN is road access and getting passengers to and from the airport. Anyone got a suggested fix here?

Southend has a good future but it should not be greedy with a race to the bottom.

[DC3 Dave]

Only Stobart are being greedy, but they have no choice. Scaling back on their ambition is no longer an option. Way too far down the runway to abort. And you are right, LTNman, SEN is hamstrung by its links to the motorway network. But LTN doesn't have a station 60 secs walk from the terminal, but neither that, nor anything else, has prevented expansion so wonderfully recorded by your photography on your home thread.

By the way, are you very, very tall? Or are you using a drone (naughty) to get those great shots?

[rowly6339]

Stobart have said the following

We see SEN as a 10m pa airport with plans to hit 5m by 2023

5m could be achievable but 10m would mean investment in local infrastructure I.e. The local road network, can the council or Stobart afford this?

[pamann]

Not sure it’s been reported here

Looks like the Tui Palma flights finish this summer.

[asdf1234]

I see the FBO will only open during the day going forward 0630 - 1830, unless an operator makes a specific request for night-time handling. Does this suggest executive movements have not grown as expected?

[rocker6346]

The reason for the Flybe SEN-ANR rroute not being bookable beyond October is presumably because KLM and Cityjet are establishing Air Antwerp, whose first route will be ANR-LCY using F50 equipment. Other routes from ANR are planned and an aircraft upgrade can be expected once the routes establish their viability.

I've heard a rumour that Cityjet has pulled out of the project.
Flybe flights are now not bookable beyond 30th August... I wonder how viable an airline is with 1 Fokker 50.

[Expressflight]

I find it odd that SEN management apparently cannot be bothered to promote the Jetlink X1 coach service that commences in four days time. I would have thought the service, which fills the gaps in the current train service by offering a London Victoria to/from SEN for the first wave departures and the last wave arrivals, would be of some value to SEN's marketing people.

[Expressflight]

I've heard a rumour that Cityjet has pulled out of the project.
Flybe flights are now not bookable beyond 30th August... I wonder how viable an airline is with 1 Fokker 50.
At present SEN-ANR is shown on the calender as bookable in October but oddly not in September. Not yet bookable though.

[LTNman]

I see the FBO will only open during the day going forward 0630 - 1830, unless an operator makes a specific request for night-time handling. Does this suggest executive movements have not grown as expected?

Luton is meant to be closed to biz jets from 23:00 to 07:00 until September 30th except it doesn't appear to have started yet as it is not NOTAMed. If the SEN FBO is closed from 18:30 it would appear they have given up and might as well put the fire out in their inglenook.

[Planespeaking]

Luton is meant to be closed to biz jets from 23:00 to 07:00 until September 30th except it doesn't appear to have started yet as it is not NOTAMed. If the SEN FBO is closed from 18:30 it would appear they have given up and might as well put the fire out in their inglenook.

Thankyou for your usual constructive comments LTNman. Don't rub your hands together with glee just yet!

[Expressflight]

Luton is meant to be closed to biz jets from 23:00 to 07:00 until September 30th except it doesn't appear to have started yet as it is not NOTAMed. If the SEN FBO is closed from 18:30 it would appear they have given up and might as well put the fire out in their inglenook.
SEN has been busy so far this month at night (15 plus bizjets on Sunday night) and at least three heavy bizjets last night but maybe this is all traffic that can't get a STN slot.

[LTNman]

Thankyou for your usual constructive comments LTNman. Don't rub your hands together with glee just yet!





Why would I be rubbing my hands with glee? Sounds like the report by asdf1234 cannot be correct

[pabely]

Why would I be rubbing my hands with glee? Sounds like the report by asdf1234 cannot be correct
Web Site still says 24 hours but last news item is fron Jan 2018 so they do not seem to be keeping things up to date, or no news!

[DC3 Dave]

I find it odd that SEN management apparently cannot be bothered to promote the Jetlink X1 coach service that commences in four days time. I would have thought the service, which fills the gaps in the current train service by offering a London Victoria to/from SEN for the first wave departures and the last wave arrivals, would be of some value to SEN's marketing people.

They haven't even updated the website. Over the last 2 or 3 years they have blown hot and cold on self promotion, at times making sure that press releases go out - backed up on social media - as soon as any positive news breaks. Right now they're in one of their "doldrums" periods, when it seems they can't be bothered.

[asdf1234]

Why would I be rubbing my hands with glee? Sounds like the report by asdf1234 cannot be correct
It was NOTAMed starting 7th June .

[LTNman]

ALL AIRCRAFT REQUIRING HANDLING FROM THE FBO BETWEEN 1830-0630
(1930-0730) ARE REQUESTED TO CONTACT THE STOBART JET CENTRE AS SOON
AS POSSIBLE IN ORDER TO RECEIVE A CONFIRMED HANDLING REQUEST FOR ALL
SERVICES REQUIRED.
STOBART JET CENTRE
TEL: 01702-538593/658595

Just suggests that they want to know what is arriving in advance so they can keep the fire going and that there is someone to greet them apart from the company cat.

Southend should have a busy few months I would have thought.

[pabely]

So a few rushing to get into Luton or Stansted before curfews could be disappointment!

[Tagron]

The NOTAM certainly does not say that the FBO will be shut or in any other way restricted, only that prior notification is requested.

[LTNman]

Maybe if nothing was booked in the staff lock the door and go home just like the terminal. I am sure Stobart would not want to be paying staff to watch the TV.

[DC3 Dave]

I know the link to this thread is tenuous, but I wonder when the last time so many aircraft passed through Southend's airspace.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17684120.d-day-southend-flyover-route-change-means-planes-will-not-pass-over-pier/

I suspect those who love aviation will have their eyes to the sky this afternoon, wishing they could be up there.

[SEN Observer]

According to the SEN website there's crew training this afternoon too. Going to be pretty busy with all this in addition to the scheduled flights.

[Pain in the R's]

I hate reading personal nightmare stories like this which does Southend no favours. The day in question was in March but the review appeared on-line in May. I think March 6th pre-dates Ryanair which makes it even worse.

https://www.airlinequality.com/airport-reviews/southend-airport/

"horrific place and service"

S Carten (United Kingdom) 20th May 2019

✅ Trip Verified (https://www.airlinequality.com/verified-reviews/) Avoid like plague. Their lack of management caused lots of people to miss their flights on the 6th March 2019. Luggage checked in and accepted about 1h before departure (after a long queue). Joined another terrible queue for passport control, where no staff or managers were present to check or help those with immediate flights. Fast lane was opened next to this queue, empty, with member of staff onlooking and not having the initiative to ask for help. We approached a member of staff to ask if we should be moved through fast lane, as flight was soon departing: reply was all will be OK, no worries, they will wait for you! Zero announcements in the airport, no warnings whatsoever.

At passport control, an alert for imminent flight departure flashed on screen. To no avail, same result, another member of staff just asked us to wait in queue at security. After security check (the third queue) was eventually passed, we arrived at the gate, only to be told by a junior manager that we are now denied boarding and that the pilot decided to unload luggages for all those caught in their queue. 20-30 people affected. We were all made to wait 45 min to get luggages back (plane was late to do this, instead accepting people arriving there because of the ground staff inability to do their jobs properly). A couple of hours extra followed, to get explanations and pathetic excuses. No alternative flights offered, the only junior manager present totally overwhelmed by the situation (video available).

I will never set foot in this place again and ask you to consider very careful when choosing this airport. Their complaints service even asked people to use their insurance to get money back (have it in writing), no apology or accepting any fault on their part even if they caused a few holidays cancelled etc. (heard a couple next to us who missed their connection to Dubai and the entire holiday). Absolutely horrific place and service, stay away, just choose a proper airport.

[fatmed]

Every single review site I have been on will
have reviews written like this about products I have not had any issues with. Perhaps for fairness you would like to also quote the Miriad of good reviews against the bad ones to present a balanced view ?

[Expressflight]

Skytrax certainly seems to attract a very large number of poor reviews for some reason. I see that LTN averages 2/10 from all reviews, STN 2/10, LCY 4/10, LGW 4/10, LHR 4/10 and surprise, surprise SEN 6/10. I suggest PiiR's keeps well away from those other airports' reviews as he hates reading them so much.

[Pain in the R's]

Skytrax certainly seems to attract a very large number of poor reviews for some reason. I see that LTN averages 2/10 from all reviews, STN 2/10, LCY 4/10, LGW 4/10, LHR 4/10 and surprise, surprise SEN 6/10. I suggest PiiR's keeps well away from those other airports' reviews as he hates reading them so much.

Good idea, best not to mention Southend's downward trend and to ignore passengers complaints as irrelevant. Sounds like management speak to me. People here were quick to raise their glasses to reports about how good the customer experience was at Southend but don't like the cold facts that it is all starting to go wrong.

[DC3 Dave]

I hate reading personal nightmare stories like this which does Southend no favours.B]


Really, Mr R's #Pinocchio

[Barling Magna]

It's certainly depressing to read some of the reviews recently. The advent of Ryanair seemed to catch the airport by surprise! Since then any delays seem to be due to ATC strikes or aircraft tech issues causing congestion. It appears to be improving now, but should not have occurred in the first place. It does undermine one of SEN's claimed USPs, but I guess rapid growth was never going to be straightforward for a small operation like SEN. Maybe the complainant quoted by PitRs should have said that SEN now has all the issues of a proper airport....?

[SARF]

People rarely write good reviews. Any review site will be massively skewed towards whining. Don’t get me wrong it seems these people have valid complaints. But it’s hard to get a true reflection of what percentage these make up at any airport

[LTNman]

The guy complained about the long check-in queue, which can happen at any airport but he claims to have joined another long queue to check his boarding pass 1 hour before departure. He then hit another queue to pass through security. Every time he mentioned his concerns to staff he is told him to carry on waiting in the queues as they offer no help. Now we are not talking about a Heathrow sized terminal at SEN so once passed security he would have been seconds from the gate yet up to 30 passengers also missed the same flight. All this in March before even Ryanair had launched. We will never know how many flight were departing around his flight time but it won’t be more than 3 I would have thought.

Stobart controlled the entire process from providing the check-in staff, to checking the boarding cards, then providing the security staff and even the gate personal so they cannot blame anyone else. It sounds like the airport is run on a shoe string with next to no staff yet Stobart spends millions on infrastructure projects. This is an easy fix to let’s hope the airport gets its act together real soon and gets ahead of the curve as the airport should have no issues handling its present passenger levels.

[Expressflight]

let’s hope the airport gets its act together real soon and gets ahead of the curve as the airport should have no issues handling its present passenger levels.
It would be interesting to know if perhaps they already have. I haven't heard/seen any complaints recently, although that doesn't necessarily mean everything is OK now of course.

[DC3 Dave]

The management at SEN have come up with a solution to alleviate the tension caused by the queues. Ruuby Beauty, a pop-up parlour, has opened just after security. Relaxing massage is available, along with a range of beauty treatments.

Any passengers wishing to indulge and shake off their stress before boarding are advised to arrive at the airport at least 3.5 hours before departure.

[asdf1234]

The NOTAM certainly does not say that the FBO will be shut or in any other way restricted, only that prior notification is requested.

They wouldn't bother to put the NOTAM out there unless they have decided not to be open 24/7. Put it this way - will someone be in the FBO at 2200hrs if there are no pre-booked movements and a business jet diverts to SEN unannounced? The answer is no because they will likely be closed. And the NOTAM does suggest other restrictions - i.e. no oxygen service available at the FBO and this has to be arranged with a local operator.

I see it's not just Tagron that is miffed with my post - the Southend spotters facebook page suggests I posted out of a love for STN and LTN and a dislike for SEN!!!

Back to my original question - is the FBO closing overnight (when there are no pre-booked movements) because of a lack of business? Or is there another reason? Lack of qualified staff perhaps? I'm just curious and if nobody here knows the answer, then fine.

[Expressflight]

asdf1234

I'll try to satisfy your curiosity.

For the past few days the FBO has received at least three bizjets outside of 18:30 to 06:30 each day and probably others I'm unaware of, plus numerous departures. I think it's safe to say that things will go much the same way as they did in the period June to September last year, with the LTN and STN situations seemingly being very similar this year. So, no the FBO is not closing overnight and the NOTAM didn't say that it was - hence the comments elsewhere that you've noticed. I read the NOTAM as being issued so that Stobart can determine the level of demand each day in order to staff the facility accordingly.

[southender]

As usual, a sensible reply from Expressflight!

[asdf1234]

Pretty awful results again and more assets sold to support the investment in the airport(s). Now that the Eddie Stobart shares have been mortgaged there is little left to support any further investment after the payment of dividends is catered for. Dividend payments are down 50%. Share price has been on the slide since the pre-close statement in March where the future dividend was cut again to 6p per annum (it was 18p in 2018, cut to 9p in 2019 all of which was funded by asset sales).

Share price movement today is the accumulation of trades coming through in the closed period - essentially bets. For a better picture look at the share price on Friday, one week after last Friday when shares closed at 107p, down from 225p one year ago.

How can the existing infrastructure support 5m pax let alone the target of 10m pax? Security and terminal is struggling with the new pax for the Ryanair flights. The airport will need remote stands on the North side and possible a remote terminal on the North side too. A parallel taxiway would also be required to support peak time aircraft movements. These can all be achieved at a price but what about car parking? The estate is not large enough to create additional parking unless a multi-storey facility can be included without impinging on the runway clearances and the radar coverage.

Exciting times ahead if Stobart can finish the infrastructure improvements before the cash runs out. Given the burn rate to date I can see the cash running out first.

Shares closed at 102p yesterday, he lowest price since May 2016, and 1 week after the results were announced I think this is a good reflection of how poor those results were. Let's hope the FBO and its "24 hour operations" can help drag those results up!:ok:

[davidjohnson6]

I am beginning to wonder if the new infrastructure at Southend in the last 10 years will end up a bit like the Channel Tunnel - namely the investors who put up all the money for the building works (eg new terminal) end up getting financially wiped out due to revenues in the early years not being enough in relation to the cost of all the building works. If Stobart were to declare bankruptcy, the airport would presumably go up for auction sale - with the purchase price likely being well below the cost of all the building works. Eventually of course demand will be strong and the airport profitable - but someone other than Stobart might end up as overall benefactor

[SARF]

Highly likely. Well 1 pound a share likely. Though to be fair they did pay a fat dividend for the last couple of years. Take that in cash rather than reinvest in shares then it’s not as bad ..
i concur that a firm buys the airport. Wether the shareholders get the juice remains to be seen

[Barling Magna]

What is the situation re. the Warners Bridge retail park? Is it owned by Stobart, or the Council, or somebody else.......? It could be useful additional car parking space....

[Expressflight]

What is the situation re. the Warners Bridge retail park? Is it owned by Stobart, or the Council, or somebody else.......? It could be useful additional car parking space....
As far as I can remember SBC sold the retail park (well before Stobart came onto the scene) in order to provide a fund that was ring-fenced for airport capital expenditure. At that time SBC owned and ran the airport and later British Airports International(?) took on the running of the airport. I don't know if that was just a management contract or some form of Lease was negotiated. No doubt someone with more comprehensive information - or just a better memory - will contribute.
For some time there has been talk of the retail park relocating to the new commercial/industrial park being built on the Northern boundary of SEN.

[Red Four]

Just adding some detail to EF's post:

Airports UK (a division of British Airports International and part of BAA, as was) operated the airport from mid-80's to early 1990's and could not make any money except by extraction from SBC. They informed SBC they wanted out. Airport was under threat very real threat of closure in early nineties. Eventually a new operator, Regional Airports Limited, took the lease from the Council and in doing so saved the airport. After a few years, RAL persuaded SBC to sell off the retail park site to developers, whilst at the same time ring-fencing much of the money raised for the future possible re-development of the airport, to be released for such projects as the new railway station and control tower.

As I recall, RAL made a (small) profit for every year of their tenure but one, by the very close control of expenditure in line with income; it was not without difficult times.

However, thankfully it was recognised that in order to expand operations at the airport, that much capital injection would be required, at which stage RAL sold the airport lease to Stobart Group, leaving RAL with some cash to then develop their remaining airport at Biggin Hill.

[shamrock7seal]

Point 1

The 'scale' strategy is a good strategy for an LCC airport close to London, but: it is hard to imagine where exactly those additional 2.5m pax are going to come from to reach 5m by 2022. For simplicity that would mean easyJet effectively doubling their based aircraft from 4 to 8. It would mean Ryanair basing 6 aircraft. And it would probably mean the addition of a few more foreign LCC's into the airport. An airport of that scale poses a significant threat to STN.

Does everyone believe this is really possible? Surely more LCC's at yet another London airport is just diluting the entire system meaning less yield and less real income for SEN. The lower the fares go the less profitable each passenger becomes. The only reason an LCC would go to SEN is lack of slots elsewhere and lower airport fees. I doubt STN and LTN are at capacity yet are they? They make a killing from car-parking revenues which allows them to keep aeronautical revenues low. SEN doesn't have this ability as far as I can tell.

Point 2

Regional carriers are a dying bread due to fare levels and fuel bills. Loganair and 'Connect' Airways would earn more dosh by consolidating at LCY where the air fares can be absorbed by the market. Those fares cannot be sustained at SEN.

[Expressflight]

Red Four

Thanks for providing that interesting additional information.

[AirportPlanner1]

The guy complained about the long check-in queue, which can happen at any airport but he claims to have joined another long queue to check his boarding pass 1 hour before departure. He then hit another queue to pass through security. Every time he mentioned his concerns to staff he is told him to carry on waiting in the queues as they offer no help. Now we are not talking about a Heathrow sized terminal at SEN so once passed security he would have been seconds from the gate yet up to 30 passengers also missed the same flight. All this in March before even Ryanair had launched. We will never know how many flight were departing around his flight time but it won’t be more than 3 I would have thought

I call bulls*** on this story. I bet they turned up later than they suggest and/or 30 passengers didn’t in fact miss the same flight.

For it to be so busy it was probably a Friday which I think was about the only day all the based aircraft went out within a small window circa 06:30-07:30. It’s almost certain they weren’t on Flybe as if they were there wouldn’t be much of a check in queue so we can assume it was EZY.

From travelling at that time I think the departures were something like 06:30 to Malaga or Alicante, 06:45 to Dublin, 07:00 to Malaga or Alicante, 07:15 to Amsterdam, 07:30 to Prague/Budapest? Then 07:45ish to Rennes and 08:00ish to Groningen.

So if they turned up for the 06:30 at say 05:20 or maybe even later they would have found themselves at the back of a check-in queue at its peak with passengers that had turned up for three other flights at the right time, plus with other stragglers for their own. But they must have been at the front by 05:50 for the luggage to be accepted. At circa 05:45 it took me about 20 mins to get through card scan and security, about the longest I’ve ever waited. So I think the story of not getting through in one hour is wrong. Possibly they got in the queue at 05:55 and out the other side at 06:15 at which point they’ve said sorry we’ve closed. But that leaves some unaccounted time - toilet? shop? bar?

Was it 30 pax turned away from their flight? Or 30 pax from all the flights? Or just 30 people waiting at the help desk paying off baggage fees etc for flights they were still in time to catch?

[asdf1234]

I call bulls*** on this story. I bet they turned up later than they suggest and/or 30 passengers didn’t in fact miss the same flight.

For it to be so busy it was probably a Friday which I think was about the only day all the based aircraft went out within a small window circa 06:30-07:30. It’s almost certain they weren’t on Flybe as if they were there wouldn’t be much of a check in queue so we can assume it was EZY.

From travelling at that time I think the departures were something like 06:30 to Malaga or Alicante, 06:45 to Dublin, 07:00 to Malaga or Alicante, 07:15 to Amsterdam, 07:30 to Prague/Budapest? Then 07:45ish to Rennes and 08:00ish to Groningen.

So if they turned up for the 06:30 at say 05:20 or maybe even later they would have found themselves at the back of a check-in queue at its peak with passengers that had turned up for three other flights at the right time, plus with other stragglers for their own. But they must have been at the front by 05:50 for the luggage to be accepted. At circa 05:45 it took me about 20 mins to get through card scan and security, about the longest I’ve ever waited. So I think the story of not getting through in one hour is wrong. Possibly they got in the queue at 05:55 and out the other side at 06:15 at which point they’ve said sorry we’ve closed. But that leaves some unaccounted time - toilet? shop? bar?

Was it 30 pax turned away from their flight? Or 30 pax from all the flights? Or just 30 people waiting at the help desk paying off baggage fees etc for flights they were still in time to catch?





I can only offer anecdotal evidence:

1. It took me 20 minutes to clear security for a midday flight recently - the security hall had no more than 50 passengers in the queue.
2. An airport taxi driver told me that since the Ryanair flights started, the taxis are taking people every morning from SEN to LGW or STN due to missed flights at SEN - the overriding cause being the delays getting through security. According to the driver the pax are generally very unhappy at how they were treated at SEN.
3. The SEN website is now telling people to turn up at least 2 hours prior to departure.

[Expressflight]

AirportPlanner1

The complainant said it was 6th March 2019 so it was a Wednesday, not a Friday and a very different level of activity to that which you fairly accurately estimated for a Friday. I thought it odd that he did not write his review until 20th May 2019 so I wonder if some other news story prompted him to submit it so long after the event. As he mentions pax missing their connection to Dubia that suggests they were flying SEN-AMS, but according to the EZY Winter 18/19 programme there was no Wednesday AMS flight until 15:25; a time when queues were very unlikely to exist surely. In fact the programme shows there should have been no EZY departures before 09:00 and only five departures for the whole day! As far as Flybe is concerned there should have been a DUB flight at 06:40 with a GRQ at 08:15 and a CGN at 08:20 and only another six flights during the rest of the day. In fact 6th March 2019 was an incredibly quiet day at SEN and it's very hard to believe that queues as depicted could actually exist on such a day. I also didn't know that Fast Track Security existed in early March as I thought it a recent 'innovation', but perhaps it was in place then.

All in all an odd story to say the least.

[Spanish eyes]

What is the situation re. the Warners Bridge retail park? Is it owned by Stobart, or the Council, or somebody else.......? It could be useful additional car parking space....

Yes pull down the buildings and put the people out of work for a car park that will employ no one. I can just see the council voting that one through.

[Planespeaking]

Yes pull down the buildings and put the people out of work for a car park that will employ no one. I can just see the council voting that one through.

Well that's a rather emotive and ill informed comment. If the retail park is moved to a new location just 1/2 a mile away in the new airport business park with better infrastructure and transport links, which has been proposed, where are the employees being put out of work?

[AirportPlanner1]

Well that's a rather emotive and ill informed comment. If the retail park is moved to a new location just 1/2 a mile away in the new airport business park with better infrastructure and transport links, which has been proposed, where are the employees being put out of work?

Also assumes there’s anyone to put out of work. In theory the they could just let leases lapse until all occupants are cleared. Or more likely cover costs to move them to alternative units elsewhere, either purpose built or vacancies within other retails parks

[asdf1234]

AirportPlanner1

The complainant said it was 6th March 2019 so it was a Wednesday, not a Friday and a very different level of activity to that which you fairly accurately estimated for a Friday. I thought it odd that he did not write his review until 20th May 2019 so I wonder if some other news story prompted him to submit it so long after the event. As he mentions pax missing their connection to Dubia that suggests they were flying SEN-AMS, but according to the EZY Winter 18/19 programme there was no Wednesday AMS flight until 15:25; a time when queues were very unlikely to exist surely. In fact the programme shows there should have been no EZY departures before 09:00 and only five departures for the whole day! As far as Flybe is concerned there should have been a DUB flight at 06:40 with a GRQ at 08:15 and a CGN at 08:20 and only another six flights during the rest of the day. In fact 6th March 2019 was an incredibly quiet day at SEN and it's very hard to believe that queues as depicted could actually exist on such a day. I also didn't know that Fast Track Security existed in early March as I thought it a recent 'innovation', but perhaps it was in place then.

All in all an odd story to say the least.

I think the trip was on 6th April as Skytrax verified the trip by reference to the complainants flight ticket and recorded the trip as having taken place in April. What was the schedule like for Saturday 6th April?

[Expressflight]

I think the trip was on 6th April as Skytrax verified the trip by reference to the complainants flight ticket and recorded the trip as having taken place in April. What was the schedule like for Saturday 6th April?
Then why does the complainant say ".... caused lots of people to miss their flights on 6th March 2019"? Where does your date of 6th April come from?

[Expressflight]

Early and late trains

Good news. The early and late trains are now timetabled to start from next Monday, 10th June.

[Andy_S]

Highly likely. Well 1 pound a share likely. Though to be fair they did pay a fat dividend for the last couple of years. Take that in cash rather than reinvest in shares then it’s not as bad .

Isn't that part of the problem, though? Stobart have been paying shareholders a dividend that they couldn't afford.

[SARF]

It was a payout for the sale of part of Eddie Stobart trucking. I guess the markets thought it would be permanent tho they did insinuate the dividends would continue till 2021? Either way it’s returning cash to shareholders and in my opinion better than share buybacks . The tinkler spat put and end to those golden days and perhaps some Nigel Woodford forced selling ?
you would hope they are now investing more in the airport but only they know the returns thus far and what they can hope to,create

[Barling Magna]

Then why does the complainant say ".... caused lots of people to miss their flights on 6th March 2019"? Where does your date of 6th April come from?

Presumably a typo by the complainant.

[willy wombat]

Is Nigel Woodford Neil’s lesser known brother?

[SARF]

Yeah like Neil Farage

[SARF]

Early and late trains

Good news. The early and late trains are now timetabled to start from next Monday, 10th June.
what are the new times EP For first n last. I couldn’t navigate a train website if you paid me !

[Expressflight]

The early morning train departs LST at 04:30 (04:35 some days) arriving SIA 05:17 (05:29 some days) calling at Stratford only. No Sunday morning train at present due to engineering works. The late evening train departs SIA at 23:59 arriving LST 00:55 calling at Shenfield and Stratford only. This service operates 7 days a week.

[4567]

Anyone seen how the loads are on the new Scottish services?

[asdf1234]

Then why does the complainant say ".... caused lots of people to miss their flights on 6th March 2019"? Where does your date of 6th April come from?
I'm guessing he mistyped .The skytrax website has his flight taking place in April so it may have been 6th April April and not 6th March .The April date is a Saturday and there may have been an AMS flight on that day .

[willy wombat]

As someone who spent his entire career in commercial aviation, I have watched the recent development of SEN with interest, and also the running comments re security queues. I use Edinburgh quite a lot and the security queues could be awful but of late they seem a lot better. If you look at the Edinburgh Airport App on your iPhone or pad you will see that the first page has a constantly updated security queue time (as I type it's 3 minutes). If I was running an airport this is certainly something I'd do as it keeps the spotlight on the issue. Before posting, rather than look like a muppet, I thought I'd download and check whether the SEN app already had this function only to discover, unless I am mistaken, that there isn't a Southend Airport app. Searching the app store for Southend Airport only brings up an app called Southend Airport Travel which appears to be about a taxi company. If I am wrong I am ready for the barrage of criticism but if I'm right...…..really? - who's running the show? PS in the time it took me to type this the EDI queue time has gone up to 5 minutes.

[southender]

Sadly, IT and Southend Airport do not go hand in hand!

[davidjohnson6]

In 2018, Edinburgh had 10 times the number of passengers compared to Southend.
Is Southend sufficiently large than having an app (instead of just a website) is a priority ?

[SARF]

The early morning train departs LST at 04:30 (04:35 some days) arriving SIA 05:17 (05:29 some days) calling at Stratford only. No Sunday morning train at present due to engineering works. The late evening train departs SIA at 23:59 arriving LST 00:55 calling at Shenfield and Stratford only. This service operates 7 days a week.
at last ! And it’s a fast train as well. Well as fast as you can get on that line

[willy wombat]

Yee Gods 1/ how do you think EDI got so busy? 2/ an app is no big deal. As I pointed out above, a Southend taxi company has got an app. 3/ many of the sort of travellers you get on EZY and FR live on their phones. Even I, as a (recent) OAP sometimes use a mobile boarding card on my iPhone. Decent website and app is vital.

[SWBKCB]

And SEN, as a new entrant with a clean sheet, should be looking to be ahead of the game. They give the impression that they're struggling to keep up.

[SARF]

I never travel anywhere without a paper boarding pass. Mind you I just bought a round using c a s h. ....

[tayair6]

Andrew Tinkler loses appeal over Stobart Group High Court case.

[DC3 Dave]

Early and late trains

Good news. The early and late trains are now timetabled to start from next Monday, 10th June.

Some local publicity for the trains plus website has been updated. Still nothing about the new coach service.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17698526.southend-airport-greater-anglia-to-lay-on-extra-trains/

[BA318]

Some local publicity for the trains plus website has been updated. Still nothing about the new coach service.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17698526.southend-airport-greater-anglia-to-lay-on-extra-trains/

I've had adverts for the new coach service on Facebook - I assume they are targeted as I live quite close to Canning Town station in Royal Docks area.

[tws123]

The EnsignBus JetLink coach service has been suspended because Southend Airport have denied them access apparently! How bizarre

From Twitter it said It is with great regret that we have to announce the withdrawal of JETLINK X1 London • Southend Airport until further notice. This is due to Southend Airport denying us access to the airport

[LTNman]

Stobart would be looking for a fee no doubt. Same thing happened at Luton. Greenline took the airport to court as they were banned after 40 odd years as Luton had done an exclusive deal with National Express which was deemed illegal.

[Planespeaking]

Stobart would be looking for a fee no doubt. Same thing happened at Luton. Greenline took the airport to court as they were banned after 40 odd years as Luton had done an exclusive deal with National Express which was deemed illegal.
At least LTN had 40 years, I don't think this service has even started at SEN. It could be because of the new early and late train services being introduced now to SEN, however it an example of how not to handle PR. Well done Stobart!!

[DC3 Dave]

At least LTN had 40 years, I don't think this service has even started at SEN. It could be because of the new early and late train services being introduced now to SEN, however it an example of how not to handle PR. Well done Stobart!!

I didn't really agree with your PR comments, because there had been so little publicity about this service in the first place. That was until.......

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17701931.airports-banned-our-buses-as-customers-try-to-board/

My understanding is that Stobart get a substantial cut from every ticket sold from the railway station, which is fair enough as they paid for it. Does anyone know the percentage?

[LTNman]

This is a great example of Stobart putting themselves first before their passengers and refusing to see the bigger picture which could cost them passengers. London Victoria coach and railway station is the other side of London and would complement the new early rail journey with an additional starting point.

With the first train now arriving one hour before the first wave of departures and with the airport telling passengers to arrive at the airport 2 hours before departure the coach company makes a good point. I would not use the train after reading about all the passengers who are missing their flights due to terminal queues if I had a 6:30 departure.

It is a sad state of affairs that the airport is not coach friendly as they want to control everything at Southend. I wonder if Stobart knows that when the airport reaches 2 million passengers they will be forced to open up the airport to outside handling agents.

[davidjohnson6]

Turnover does not equal profit... and right now I imagine Stobart are desperate to extract profit out of the airport by any means possible.

[rocker6346]

So the SEN-ANR line will be cancelled as of Sept 1. Not that it was such a busy route anyway...

[davidjohnson6]

Is the new startup airline called Air Antwerp close to being able to put seats on sale or is that still a long way off ?

[DC3 Dave]

My understanding is that Stobart get a substantial cut from every ticket sold from the railway station, which is fair enough as they paid for it. Does anyone know the percentage?

I have extracted a paragraph from some correspondence I found online. It dates from September 2015, but the arrangement described probably holds good today.

SRL = Stobart Rail Limited.

"19. The charging arrangements in place allow SRL to retain 91% of all ticket sales to
and from the station, less season ticket sales. The arrangements also include
review mechanisms (see also paragraph 29) that may be instigated by either party
to the SAA. The access charge provisions set out in the Stobart SACs also permit a
review to be called at any time where any stated assumptions which underpin the
revenue sharing principles in the Stobart SACs cease to be correct."

So you can see why Stobart wouldn't be too keen on a competitive coach service running along a similar route to the railway.

[Sharklet_321]

Surely the focus should be on securing the long-term sustainability of easyJet and Ryanair and that can only come by pushing as many pax as possible through whichever means necessary on to the planes?!

They may have a busy train station but not everyone can afford the train fares so they're missing out on a key segment if they do this.

[AirportPlanner1]

They may have a busy train station but not everyone can afford the train fares so they're missing out on a key segment if they do this.

With respect if you can’t afford £16-£30 for a train fare you’ve probably picked the wrong destination if visiting from abroad and if you live here I imagine you should be spending your money more wisely than on a few days away.

[SARF]

I imagine a new bus service will be along soon. Run by Stobart no doubt

[HeliAl]

Cheaper to buy a ticket to Southend Victoria
and get off at the Airport🤪

[SEN Observer]

Cheaper to buy a ticket to Southend Victoria
and get off at the Airport🤪
May be cheaper but no guarantee that the ticket will be accepted at the airport station. I remember some while back that a ticket from London to Brighton was declared invalid when the user tried to get off one station before Brighton and was charged a penalty fare! Careful using a ticket to any station other than the named destination as unfair as it may seem.

[asdf1234]

Buy Liverpool St to Southend Victoria and a Southend Vicoria to Southend Airport ticketfor £9.50. Still about 50% cheaper than the Liverpool Street to Southend Airport ticket :ok:

[DC3 Dave]

This truly takes my breath away.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-7144917/Exposed-30m-secret-bonus-pot-set-pockets-Stobart-boss.html

[SARF]

2.1 bill for the airport and no shareholder Is going to care

[davidjohnson6]

£2.1 bn is the value of a very large airport. Mr Brady had better get moving if he want SEN to be worth that much during his tenure as CEO. It's unlikely he will have 10 or more years in the role so time is not unlimited

[Planespeaking]

£2.1 bn is the value of a very large airport. Mr Brady had better get moving if he want SEN to be worth that much during his tenure as CEO. It's unlikely he will have 10 or more years in the role so time is not unlimited

My facts may be suspect, but I think Southend Council sold SEN to RAL for £1, RAL sold the airport to Stobarts for £21m once planning approval for the runway extension and new terminal was granted and now the figure of £2.1bn is being bandied about. I wish my pension fund would grow as fast, however the old saying "if it sounds too good to be true then it probably is too good to be true " may apply here!!

[asdf1234]

This truly takes my breath away.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-7144917/Exposed-30m-secret-bonus-pot-set-pockets-Stobart-boss.html

There is lots in the Annual R&A that takes the breath away. How about the fact that the current terminal has a capacity of 5m pax per annum? It is currently only 30% utilized according to the R&A. If ever they reach 5m pax that will be one very congested departures lounge. Or how about the airport is developing capacity to handle 10m pax per annum? Where do they find the land for that expansion?

[LTNman]

Look back far enough and I have always said Stobart would sell the airport. London City was sold for £2bn in 2016 so the question to be asked does Southend have the same earnings potential as London City. This also explains nicely why Stobart talks up the airport and fantasises about its potential capacity.

[shamrock7seal]

I would say LCY has much higher earning potential. Why? Because the airport is in the business end of the market so aviation fees and charges will be high which can be partly off-set/absorbed by higher airfares.

SEN cannot be close to GBP2bn resting on the back of a Ryanair base which could (and will) pull the plug at ANY moment if fees/charges don't remain FREE or as close to FREE as possible. If SEN don't have land to earn money from car-parking then I can't see how they can sustain such low fees/charges for airlines using the airport.

[SARF]

1 billion would be enough

[racedo]

The early morning train departs LST at 04:30 (04:35 some days) arriving SIA 05:17 (05:29 some days) calling at Stratford only. No Sunday morning train at present due to engineering works. The late evening train departs SIA at 23:59 arriving LST 00:55 calling at Shenfield and Stratford only. This service operates 7 days a week.

Crikey must have got the service on its first day then.

[asdf1234]

1 billion would be enough


A multiplier of around 25 x EBITDA is reasonable for airport sales. The current "underlying" EBITDA at Southend is circa £3 per pax (with "underlying" not easy to define but to get to the true figure you need to strip out the route marketing and contract set-up costs. I think the true EBITDA per pax is negative but let's assume £1). So airport could sell for circa £25m. What they need to do is get the per pax profit up to something in the £5 - £10 range. At the moment the target is £8 per pax profit and a target 5m pax. So £40m EBITDA x 25 = £1 billion sales price for the airport. The difficulty in growing the per pax profit is that the estate is constrained. Where do you put the car parks, traditionally a large proportion of any airport's income? How do you introduce more concessions airside when the airport building expansion is limited by the location of the ATC tower? £8 per pax when your bread and butter passenger is a cost conscious Ryanair and Easy customer will be hard to achieve. 5m pax per annum even more difficult.

[LTNman]

Don’t think this is far fetched but what are the prospects of Stobart buying the golf course, kicking out the golfers and building a second terminal just south of Rockford Station and using that station as the station for T2? Also west of the golf course and north of the airport are farmers fields for an even bigger airport.

If Luton is planning to build a second terminal on one of the towns biggest parks, which has county wildlife status, nothing is safe these days.

[asdf1234]

A multiplier of around 25 x EBITDA is reasonable for airport sales. The current "underlying" EBITDA at Southend is circa £3 per pax (with "underlying" not easy to define but to get to the true figure you need to strip out the route marketing and contract set-up costs. I think the true EBITDA per pax is negative but let's assume £1). So airport could sell for circa £25m. What they need to do is get the per pax profit up to something in the £5 - £10 range. At the moment the target is £8 per pax profit and a target 5m pax. So £40m EBITDA x 25 = £1 billion sales price for the airport. The difficulty in growing the per pax profit is that the estate is constrained. Where do you put the car parks, traditionally a large proportion of any airport's income? How do you introduce more concessions airside when the airport building expansion is limited by the location of the ATC tower? £8 per pax when your bread and butter passenger is a cost conscious Ryanair and Easy customer will be hard to achieve. 5m pax per annum even more difficult.

After further delving into the annual report and accounts the EBITDA profit per passenger for the aviation division was 19 pence per passenger. I think the EBITDA profit per passenger for Southend Airport (and not the aviation division as a whole) is actually negative (i.e. it cost Stobart a certain amount for every passenger that went through the terminal) but the exact figure is not discoverable in the accounts as I cannot find the profit made from the handling contract at Stansted and the profit from the management contract at DTV. At 19p the EBITDA needs to grow by over 4000% to reach the target of £8 per pax.

[DC3 Dave]

I agree that nothing is safe anymore, but I feel it's the Inglenook fireplace in the Stobart Jet Centre that would come under threat if expansion to over 5m pax p.a. ever became a realistic prospect rather than just big talk. Relocating the Jet Centre elsewhere would surely make more sense.

Don't forget, plans are already approved for extensions either end of the existing terminal, and they will help the current situation. It is possible that the work required could be completed for a sum less than Mr Brady's proposed bonus.

[SWBKCB]

Will there be anything for the DTVA contract - only been going a couple of months?

Also, what do Stobart actually own at SEN - isn't the airport leased from the council?

[Expressflight]

Also, what do Stobart actually own at SEN - isn't the airport leased from the council?
In effect Stobart 'own' SEN in that that they have a very long Leasehold of the site, with Southend Borough Council owning the Freehold. Stobart own it in the same way that a leasehold apartment occupier considers that he/she owns their property. The same applies to LTN of course with Luton Borough Council being their Freeholder.

LTNman

In theory, assuming that Rochford Hundred Golf Club own the Freehold of their site, they could try to sell it to Stobart should their Membership agree but I should imagine it's Green Belt land. If that is so I cannot see any possibility of it being re-designated, particularly now that the UK Government seems to be taking carbon emissions reduction very seriously. It certainly would solve SEN's space limitation problem but I think it's a purely theoretical solution.

[Red Four]

and most of the golf-course is high flood risk, so no buildings.

[asdf1234]

Will there be anything for the DTVA contract - only been going a couple of months?

Also, what do Stobart actually own at SEN - isn't the airport leased from the council?

They have the benefit of a 150 year lease on the land which started in 1994. There is a 2nd lease for the runway extension lands but this follows the original lease. If there is an opportunity to sell the airport development they should attempt to do this whilst there is more than 99 years remaining on the lease. Anything less and the investment value begins to drop. So they have between now and 2044 to build a successful airport and then sell it.

[Planespeaking]

They have the benefit of a 150 year lease on the land which started in 1994. There is a 2nd lease for the runway extension lands but this follows the original lease. If there is an opportunity to sell the airport development they should attempt to do this whilst there is more than 99 years remaining on the lease. Anything less and the investment value begins to drop. So they have between now and 2044 to build a successful airport and then sell it.

2044? I will be 100!!. Time to start to worry!

[racedo]

Don’t think this is far fetched but what are the prospects of Stobart buying the golf course, kicking out the golfers and building a second terminal just south of Rockford Station and using that station as the station for T2? Also west of the golf course and north of the airport are farmers fields for an even bigger airport.

If Luton is planning to build a second terminal on one of the towns biggest parks, which has county wildlife status, nothing is safe these days.

Luton has a 360 Degree catchment area, Southend has a 90 degree catchment area and with Stansted just as easy for many people there is little likelihood of mega expansion.

[Planespeaking]

Luton has a 360 Degree catchment area, Southend has a 90 degree catchment area and with Stansted just as easy for many people there is little likelihood of mega expansion.
JFK, Hong Kong, and many other successful coastal airports have a directional catchment area, however SEN can never be a mega airport, just a small to medium London airport. It will have it's part to play but there will be physical and infrastructure constraints on expansion as we are already seeing at LTN.

[DC3 Dave]

For those who like their stats, the CAA airport data has just been updated and includes pax numbers at SEN for April. The effect Ryanair has had can be seen in detail for the first time.

[racedo]

For those who like their stats, the CAA airport data has just been updated and includes pax numbers at SEN for April. The effect Ryanair has had can be seen in detail for the first time.

74k up on prev year of which 51k is "EU operator". Stats like that show why airports across EU want them if delivering 1700 pax a day.

[Tagron]

74k up on prev year of which 51k is "EU operator". Stats like that show why airports across EU want them if delivering 1700 pax a day.

Fair comment. But don't forget EZY also played their part with the increase of the SEN-based fleet from 3 x A319 (Apr 18) to 2 x A319 + 2 x A320 (Apr 19). Easter was later. On the debit side there was no STK E195 operation.

[Buster the Bear]

Steel specialist lands airport hangar contract | Construction Enquirer (http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2019/06/20/steel-specialist-lands-airport-hangar-contract/)

[SEN Observer]

Steel specialist lands airport hangar contract | Construction Enquirer (http://www.constructionenquirer.com/2019/06/20/steel-specialist-lands-airport-hangar-contract/)

So the A321-NEO is frequently used at the airport........?????
No offence intended towards Buster the Bear who is just passing on an article he has come across for which I thank him.

[DC3 Dave]

Monday sees the end of 5 mins free in the short-term car park, with a £3 for ten minutes charge being introduced. It's not the end of the world, but it does make you wonder what will come next.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17719405.southend-airport-end-free-5-minute-drop-off-in-short-stay-car-park/

[LTNman]

it does make you wonder what will come next.

£4 and then £5 I would say.. People expect cheap tickets and free airports.

[asdf1234]

Monday sees the end of 5 mins free in the short-term car park, with a £3 for ten minutes charge being introduced. It's not the end of the world, but it does make you wonder what will come next.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17719405.southend-airport-end-free-5-minute-drop-off-in-short-stay-car-park/

I wonder where the taxis will now drop off as they used to use the short stay?

[AirportPlanner1]

£4 and then £5 I would say.. People expect cheap tickets and free airports.

Perhaps, although worth noting Southend does have a few premium seats and routes (as does LTN and STN) with people neither paying bargain basement or getting a “free” airport.

[SARF]

If it’s long stay 3 that is a shorter stroll to the terminal than valet parking at Stansted, with no lifts or ramps .
plus it’s now 15 mins, so less stress getting stuck behind someone who has dropped their ticket in short stay .
I would suggest at some stage they make it a covered walkway though, if it isn’t yet

[LTNman]

If the long stay becomes popular for dropping off they will find a way to make it less popular.

[asdf1234]

Looks like temperatures at SEN will hit 30c next Tuesday and Wednesday. Heard on the grapevine that Easyjet will be telling the last 15 pax to arrive at the check in desk that they won't be flying on those days due to operational restrictions. Not sure which flights are affected by this but assume it will be the A320 flights. Can anyone confirm the schedule
for the A320s next Tuesday and Wednesday?

[Expressflight]

asdf1234

I think it's normally the A319 which suffers most in those conditions rather than the A320, let alone the A320neo. Current wind direction is forecast to be NE on those days and payload on 05 is better than on 23 so don't start rubbing your hands just yet.

I'll be more interested to see if the 738s are payload limited.

[asdf1234]

asdf1234

I think it's normally the A319 which suffers most in those conditions rather than the A320, let alone the A320neo. Current wind direction is forecast to be NE on those days and payload on 05 is better than on 23 so don't start rubbing your hands just yet.

I'll be more interested to see if the 738s are payload limited.

I honestly don't know which aircraft type (319 or 320) was potentially subject to the restriction, other than it was EZY and not FR.

I too would like to see how the 738s perform, especially given they seem to have the SFP mod. Their larger payload would suggest a greater propensity to restrictions on 23 on a hot and humid day but maybe the SFP brings improvements over the 319/320. Only time and experience will tell.

Of course, a 05 departure should avoid any restrictions but again, only time will tell. Let's see what happens next week.

In retrospect was it wise for Stobart to restrict the declared distances on the runway? And could they now increase those declared distances to allow unrestricted ops on hot and humid days? As far as I could tell, limiting the declared distances was a cost saving measure centred on RFFS resources.

[asdf1234]

Sorry forgot to say.

I'm not rubbing my hands in glee or anything else. When I fly short haul I fly EZY more than any other airline and this adds up to a huge amount of EZY flights every year. On average I flew EZY every 9 days last year. I fly short haul with other operators and long haul. Whilst it's difficult to compare long haul and short haul standards of service, EZY make my top 3 overall.

I like EZY and their onboard service, their pricing strategy, their route network, and above all else, their crew who are the unsung heroes of the whole operation.

I don't want EZY to throw pax of their aircraft due to op restrictions and I hope it never happens. I was just reporting on a rumour network what I was told.

[Tagron]

Looks like temperatures at SEN will hit 30c next Tuesday and Wednesday. Heard on the grapevine that Easyjet will be telling the last 15 pax to arrive at the check in desk that they won't be flying on those days due to operational restrictions. Not sure which flights are affected by this but assume it will be the A320 flights. Can anyone confirm the schedule
for the A320s next Tuesday and Wednesday?

All the forecasts that I can find predict a maximum temperature at SEN of 26c on Tuesday then 25 & 24 on Wednesday and Thursday. It is Central London where 30c is forecast. It is a not uncommon situation for inland areas to be hotter than the coast because the coast is cooled by the north easterly breezes coming off the North Sea, and NE winds are forecast to predominate all next week. On that basis I would suggest that performance problems are unlikely to arise.

[Tagron]

I honestly don't know which aircraft type (319 or 320) was potentially subject to the restriction, other than it was EZY and not FR.

I too would like to see how the 738s perform, especially given they seem to have the SFP mod. Their larger payload would suggest a greater propensity to restrictions on 23 on a hot and humid day but maybe the SFP brings improvements over the 319/320. Only time and experience will tell.

Of course, a 05 departure should avoid any restrictions but again, only time will tell. Let's see what happens next week.

In retrospect was it wise for Stobart to restrict the declared distances on the runway? And could they now increase those declared distances to allow unrestricted ops on hot and humid days? As far as I could tell, limiting the declared distances was a cost saving measure centred on RFFS resources.

It was hardly Stobart's choice to restrict the runway declared distances. The reason was regulatory, ICAO policy as implemented by UK CAA. Because of the narrow runway the airport was designated as Code 3C status a requirement of which was that the maximum declarable TODA was 1799m. That compares with the total length of paved runway available which is more like 1990m including stopways and clearways. However even if the regulatory constraint could be alleviated any performance advantage would seem to be apply only to RW05. The issue with RW23 is the rising ground to the south west of the airport which affects the Second Segment Climb segment and the One Engine Inoperative obstacle clearance climb gradient This appears to be the controlling issue in the RTOW calculation in the heavier weight take offs from RW23. In this case there would be no benefit from increasing the declared distances as the obstacle clearance limitation would remain.

The determining factor of RFFS category is not in any way connected with runway length (as far as I am aware). but is a function of the length of the fuselage of aircraft using an airport regularly. . So for A320 operations (fuselage length 37.75m) RFF6 was adequate but for the B738 (39.47m) was required, 39m being the changeover point. So SEN has equipped and operated to RFF7 since the start of Ryanair ops.

[asdf1234]

All the forecasts that I can find predict a maximum temperature at SEN of 26c on Tuesday then 25 & 24 on Wednesday and Thursday. It is Central London where 30c is forecast. It is a not uncommon situation for inland areas to be hotter than the coast because the coast is cooled by the north easterly breezes coming off the North Sea, and NE winds are forecast to predominate all next week. On that basis I would suggest that performance problems are unlikely to arise.

Well done on the weather forecasting but does not address my point about EZY refusing 15 pax st SEN when the weather is too hot....

[asdf1234]

It was hardly Stobart's choice to restrict the runway declared distances. The reason was regulatory, ICAO policy as implemented by UK CAA. Because of the narrow runway the airport was designated as Code 3C status a requirement of which was that the maximum declarable TODA was 1799m. That compares with the total length of paved runway available which is more like 1990m including stopways and clearways. However even if the regulatory constraint could be alleviated any performance advantage would seem to be apply only to RW05. The issue with RW23 is the rising ground to the south west of the airport which affects the Second Segment Climb segment and the One Engine Inoperative obstacle clearance climb gradient This appears to be the controlling issue in the RTOW calculation in the heavier weight take offs from RW23. In this case there would be no benefit from increasing the declared distances as the obstacle clearance limitation would remain.

The determining factor of RFFS category is not in any way connected with runway length (as far as I am aware). but is a function of the length of the fuselage of aircraft using an airport regularly. . So for A320 operations (fuselage length 37.75m) RFF6 was adequate but for the B738 (39.47m) was required, 39m being the changeover point. So SEN has equipped and operated to RFF7 since the start of Ryanair ops.

So why not widen the runway? And then address the issues with the trees on the A127? SEN wants to be a London airport, they can't be when they are forced to refuse pax due to runway limitations and trees.

[shamrock7seal]

Runway cannot be widened unless it is extended further due to CAA runway restrictions.

[SARF]

There’s not many days when the heat causes a problem.
When there is little prevailing wind Southend will pick up an easterly breeze at the hottest part of the day from early afternoon onwards. The early morning rush hour will never be affected

[Pain in the R's]

Runway cannot be widened unless it is extended further due to CAA runway restrictions.

That sound like total rubbish. There are many standard width runways (150ft) that are shorter than Southend. The painful truth is that Southend is marginal for both easyjet and Ryanair. If fog doesn't get passengers in the winter then the summer heat will. Just call it a double wammy. What was the story with the protruding church? I know that affects the runway but I can't remember how.

[22/04]

Southend is marginal for both easyjet and Ryanair.

I would prefer the word restricted. Marginal rather gives wrong impression - it would be marginal of the take off weight wasn't restricted if necessary to prevent it being marginal!

[LTNman]

Southend used to have a bit of a history with its short runway and the railway line that passes it although Stobart has added a bit of length since those days.
https://i.imgur.com/pqIZH58.jpg

[Expressflight]

LTNman

I remember that accident very well; Sunday 9th October 1960 around lunchtime. Aquaplaning was the cause on that occasion. As you say, the paved surface is of much greater length nowadays; no RESAs in those days, and the newly grooved runway seems to be performing well according to a few RYR crew that I've heard from.

No doubt you also remember the Aer Turas DC-7 that spectacularly overran the runway at LTN many years ago.

[LTNman]

I might be the only one not to know about this website until a few minutes ago. Have a look in the history section for the prangs and everything SEN.
http://saadonline.uk/

[shamrock7seal]

That sound like total rubbish. There are many standard width runways (150ft) that are shorter than Southend. The painful truth is that Southend is marginal for both easyjet and Ryanair. If fog doesn't get passengers in the winter then the summer heat will. Just call it a double wammy. What was the story with the protruding church? I know that affects the runway but I can't remember how.

Granted this is second hand info - was told that due to the specifics of the runway approaches at both SEN and SOU the runways cannot be widened to 45m given their length, similar at LCY. I also find this odd and would like to understand it more.

Perhaps someone more technical can explain why this is (supposedly) the case?

[LTNman]

Scoping report makes no mention of why the runway can't be made wider but it is still a very interesting read
https://saeninfo.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/southend_airport_rex_scoping_report_v03.pdf

[DC3 Dave]

That sound like total rubbish. There are many standard width runways (150ft) that are shorter than Southend. The painful truth is that Southend is marginal for both easyjet and Ryanair. If fog doesn't get passengers in the winter then the summer heat will. Just call it a double wammy. What was the story with the protruding church? I know that affects the runway but I can't remember how.


​​​​​​Between them, easyjet and Ryanair have 7 aircraft based at SEN. Their choice. Nobody held a gun to their heads.

The boundary wall of the church is 49m from the runway centre line, the church spire 105m. Stobart have just spent 10 million on resurfacing the runway, If they wanted to widen it (assuming that is possible) they would probably have to spend that amount times ??? so I don't think it's going to happen. Unless, of course, Warwick Brady is willing to forgo any future bonus.

[Buster the Bear]

Must have dispensation , as a licenced runway needs 75m from runway centreline to a holding point. 49m is ridiculously close and the runway is narrower than a standard. A runway excursion could end up with an impact with that wall. When you look at it on Google Earth, I am surprised the CAA permit commercial movements. As for the spire in poor weather.......! If I applied to build a wall 49m from the runway at Luton, I know what the answer would be (ignoring who owns the land).

[asdf1234]

Must have dispensation , as a licenced runway needs 75m from runway centreline to a holding point. 49m is ridiculously close and the runway is narrower than a standard. A runway excursion could end up with an impact with that wall. When you look at it on Google Earth, I am surprised the CAA permit commercial movements. As for the spire in poor weather.......! If I applied to build a wall 49m from the runway at Luton, I know what the answer would be (ignoring who owns the land).

Mention is made in the AIP for SEN that operators acknowledge the risk posed by the proximity of the church.

4 5 WARNINGS a) It is a condition of operating at the airport that the operator accepts that St. Laurence Church and graveyard are permanent obstacles within the runway instrument strip and that they take account of them to the extent necessary to ensure a safe operation. Operators must refer to the airport conditions of use, and the pilots briefing pack on the LSACL website. Church roof is at 78 ft amsl at 94 m from runway centre-line, spire at 114 ft amsl, 105 m from runway centre-line at approximately 200 m north-east of Runway 05 threshold, lit with a single red obstacle light. Frangible fence around Church graveyard up to 9 ft agl (56 ft amsl), at closest 49 m from Runway centre-line. Operators should refer to obstacle data at AD 2.10 and charts at AD 2.24

[Spanish eyes]

Is not "dispensation" a single word for "we will turn a blind eye and hope for the best" Dispensation must have been granted for historical reasons but rules are made for good reasons. Fortunate that this Britannia 757 in the second photo didn't land at Southend. Seems to me that safety is and has been compromised at Southend for years. Short narrow Cat 1 runway runway with a church well inside the safety zone with both Ryanair and Easyjet flying on their limits but as the poster above has stated Stobart exonerates itself by saying we take no responsibility if anything happens despite the breach of safely rules as we have an exemption.

https://i.imgur.com/0Rnfigv.png
https://i.imgur.com/eOlhmBW.jpg

[AirportPlanner1]

You would hope aircraft wouldn’t be attempting to land at SEN in the conditions present at Girona that night. Also worth noting the 757 could just as easily have skidded off the other side and ploughed into the DC9 (which for an extra Daily Mail sensationalist worst-case scenario could have been full of holidaymakers) - that could also have been pretty nasty.

[DC3 Dave]

There was a plan to demolish the church, or even lift it off its foundations and move it. Then in 2002, grade 1 listed status was granted following a campaign.

But there is no cover up, or dark dealings. easyjet, Ryanair, Air Malta and Loganair have all carried out their risk assessments and made their decisions taking into account the obstruction.

[Planespeaking]

[QUOTE=Spanish eyes;10501604]Is not "dispensation" a single word for "we will turn a blind eye and hope for the best" Dispensation must have been granted for historical reasons but rules are made for good reasons. Fortunate that this Britannia 757 in the second photo didn't land at Southend. Seems to me that safety is and has been compromised at Southend for years. Short narrow Cat 1 runway runway with a church well inside the safety zone with both Ryanair and Easyjet flying on their limits but as the poster above has stated Stobart exonerates itself by saying we take no responsibility if anything happens despite the breach of safely rules as we have an exemption.

https://i.imgur.com/0Rnfigv.png
https://i.imgur.com/eOlhmBW.jpg[/QUOTEOn the basis of your argument LCY would still be a bit of derelict dock surrounded by stagnant water and tower blocks. I think perhaps the CAA are better arbiters of safety.

[DC3 Dave]

Blimey! They didn't take long to start clamping down!

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17725996.drivers-stopping-in-airport-roads-could-be-given-100-fine/

But be warned, Glyn. Theresa May tried that red lines approach......

[Barling Magna]

Always good fun to rehash old arguments, but this was decided in favour of SEN's continuing commercial movements over a decade ago. SEN is by no means alone in having dispensations. LCY must have. In my time as a passenger I particularly enjoyed landing at Funchal where the runway is extended onto a Southend Pier lookalike, and at Longyearbyen where the runway threshold is the chilly Arctic waters. I never flew in to Kai Tak but that must have been interesting too............

[LTNman]

Glyn Jones, CEO of Stobart Aviation said: “As the airport grows, the approach roads will inevitably get busier. This could become dangerous if there are lots of vehicles stopping illegally, and that could lead to accidents. We are taking this action to avoid this situation.

Isn't he of Luton descendancy? Nice little earner for the hill top Bedfordshire airport. A car with a camera sticking out of its roof on a pole sits a good 100m away on an adjoining service road to photograph any car that pulls into a bus stop around a quarter of a mile from the terminal and well outside the CTA. A case of a pound for me, a pound for you, a pound for me, a pound for you.

[Musket90]

I think the runway width issue needs to be fully understood. There are small ex-wartime airfields around the UK which have runway declared distances of less than 800m but have a width of 45m. In Southend's case the runway width is published as 36m which means to be compliant with EASA requirements (implemented by UK CAA as the EASA recognised National Authority) the TODA/ASDA declared distances should not exceed 1799m. I don't know if there's enough space to increase the declared distances and have a runway end safety area (RESA) length at either end that meets the minimum length requirement of 90m but if they were to increase above 1799m then the minimum runway width should be 45m. I imagine to do this would be very costly. Also as mentioned the obstacle environment after take-off may limit any extra take-off weight should the declared distance take-off element be increased. No doubt aircraft performance experts will know more about this..

[pabely]

Isn't he of Luton descentancy
Yes and when he left the road layout was in a terrible mess!

[shamrock7seal]

I think the runway width issue needs to be fully understood. There are small ex-wartime airfields around the UK which have runway declared distances of less than 800m but have a width of 45m. In Southend's case the runway width is published as 36m which means to be compliant with EASA requirements (implemented by UK CAA as the EASA recognised National Authority) the TODA/ASDA declared distances should not exceed 1799m. I don't know if there's enough space to increase the declared distances and have a runway end safety area (RESA) length at either end that meets the minimum length requirement of 90m but if they were to increase above 1799m then the minimum runway width should be 45m. I imagine to do this would be very costly. Also as mentioned the obstacle environment after take-off may limit any extra take-off weight should the declared distance take-off element be increased. No doubt aircraft performance experts will know more about this..

Thank you for clarifying that Musket90 I knew that a restriction like this existed but couldn't find any published guidelines about it.

[Flightrider]

Fortunate that this Britannia 757 in the second photo didn't land at Southend.

You could say that of several hundred other airports too. The Britannia 757 came to a halt (minus engines removed by the airport perimeter fencing) way beyond the safety zone afforded at a great many airports, which is part of the reason it took the RFFS team so long to actually damn well find it after the accident. It was a matter of providence that it happened to be at Gerona where the relatively benign terrain around the airfield afforded far better prospects of avoiding injury to those aboard and around than would have been the case at many airports.

Apply the same path divergence off 23R at Manchester and you'd be through and beyond the Aviation Viewing Park on the way to last orders at the Romper, off 08L at Gatwick and you'd be in South Terminal and off 33 at Birmingham and the old noise bunding for the cross runway would have provided a hard stop.

It's a grossly exaggerated (and perhaps deliberately provocative) view to condemn Southend as unsafe on the basis of the excursion path of the 757 at Gerona. That accident would certainly have had a far more insidious outcome if it had happened at many, many other airports. That it did not is something for which those aboard can be thankful, yet it has been recognised as an outlier in such incidents which has established no basis to review the safety zones applicable at all airports and any permitted derogations from them.

[rocker6346]

Is the new startup airline called Air Antwerp close to being able to put seats on sale or is that still a long way off ?
Just noticed I never answered this one.
Air Antwerp is waiting for its AOC at the moment. If all goes well, they expect to be selling tickets by August and fly as soon as September. Apparently they are now preparing 2 Fokker 50 and are planning a rapid expansion once they get their ticket sale going.

[Barling Magna]

Good luck to them.......

https://www.loganair.co.uk/clda/