Southend-2

[TopBunk]

As a west country resident using NQY/LGW for European connections I would now almost certainly switch to NQY/SEN rather than LHR because the airport is so user friendly.

... because SEN has such an extensive European network for connections:rolleyes:

[AirportPlanner1]

... because SEN has such an extensive European network for connections:rolleyes:

To be fair the range of destinations for 2019 is quite good. The flaw is that with an evening arrival into SEN there won’t be much to connect to - probably just Amsterdam, Groningen and Dublin.

[LTNman]

... because SEN has such an extensive European network for connections:rolleyes:

I was thinking the same. Southend is no Gatwick that is for sure.

[tophat27dt]

I was thinking the same. Southend is no Gatwick that is for sure.
I think SEN has its own catchment area and won't be too affected by LHR. In fact I am sure many of the LGW pax could well live nearer to SEN but of course the timetable is the important part.

[Planespeaking]

I was thinking the same. Southend is no Gatwick that is for sure.
No nor LTN or STN, but then that is part of it's attraction.

[southside bobby]

Comic statements...

[Planespeaking]

Comic statements...

Would you care to enlarge SSB...!

[southside bobby]

Some common sense logic & a nice touch of reality will do it...

BTW why draw STN into your aside at LTN,but it happens on this thread anyway I know as I have noted & mentioned many times when SEN encounters cloud.

[Planespeaking]

Some common sense logic & a nice touch of reality will do it...

BTW why draw STN into your aside at LTN,but it happens on this thread anyway I know as I have noted & mentioned many times when SEN encounters cloud.
And translations in English are available where??🤔

[canberra97]

And translations in English are available where??🤔

Have you tried Google translation :-)

The comment is fairly obvious!

[LTNman]

No nor LTN or STN, but then that is part of it's attraction.

The post in question was about Gatwick connections Vs Southend connections and nothing else.

[DC3 Dave]

Wow!!! I only asked if Flybe's decision would possibly have any affect on SEN-NQY next year. My own thought is probably not, for despite Stobart's talk of business users traveling to the city choosing SEN, I believe the route will serve a completely different demographic, serving leisure users traveling west.

Thanks for all the responses, even the crazy ones.

[GROUNDHOG]

I am old enough to remember when Stansted couldn't get passengers for love nor money and in later years when Stelios was told by the experts he was joking if he thought flights from Luton would be a success.

I know little about the Southend catchment area but what I do know is if there is a hub airport in South East England that allows me to fly from the far South West (Cornwall is not in England by the way) to somewhere I want to go, then I will use that over a huge airport with five terminals that takes me a week to get through or a two hour drive to Exeter.. Hence my post.

[southside bobby]

GROUNDHOG...

Much creditability is lost in your post with that second paragraph above...

I read it that you are describing SEN as "a hub airport in South East England"....seriously?...

And as for the little geo political aside"(Cornwall is not in England by the way)" please take your issues elsewhere.

[Expressflight]

GROUNDHOG...

I read it that you are describing SEN as "a hub airport in South East England"....seriously?...

For once I agree with you. The only feasible connecting flights from NQY via SEN would be to GRQ or AMS and the former cannot be booked as a through flight on the Flybe website while the latter would obviously be a separate booking on easyJet.

The main question is will leisure travellers to Cornwall from the South East chose SEN in preference to LHR any more or less than they would do so in preference to LGW. Who knows but perhaps some would feel more comfortable using SEN than LHR, a complex airport which many of them may never have used before while they would perhaps be somewhat more familiar with LGW. Comparative fare levels will also have some effect of course as they always do.

[DC3 Dave]

I see Laker's Bar has been replaced by the Navigator Pub. Worth noting there is a choice of beers from the Leigh-on-Sea brewery. I can personally recommend the Cockle Row Spit. I believe the availability of these beers is exclusive to Southend Airport and provides yet another incentive to those deciding which London airport to depart from.

[southside bobby]

Enjoy your imbibing DC3 Dave...

It is a shame though a name synonymous with Southend & BTW Stansted in earlier times is replaced with the standard generic & boring no thought style of rebrand above the door.

[GROUNDHOG]

GROUNDHOG...

Much creditability is lost in your post with that second paragraph above...

I read it that you are describing SEN as "a hub airport in South East England"....seriously?...

And as for the little geo political aside"(Cornwall is not in England by the way)" please take your issues elsewhere.
Then you didn't read it properly, I said if there was a hub airport.... Of course if I flew NQY/SEN/??? then by default it becomes my hub airport.
The quip was meant to add a little humour, thanks for the invitation to take it elsewhere but it is staying right here.

[southside bobby]

Gordon Bennett GROUNHOG you just have to be more expressive than you were initially as it was all over my `ed.

Being just an Essex geezer it is a struggle with other`s humour obviously then too.

[Planespeaking]

Gordon Bennett GROUNHOG you just have to be more expressive than you were initially as it was all over my `ed.

Being just an Essex geezer it is a struggle with other`s humour obviously then too.
SSB your posts are becoming more incoherent by the day. Nobody died and made you God, Groundhog and others have a right to express their knowledge, or lack of, and opinions. Your posts are becoming rather tedious and your wish to slag off those who take the sunlight off your beloved STN is rather sad. Please give the rest of us who have a life, a break.

[southside bobby]

Oh dear...

I attempt to provide what I deem to be any relevant detail concerning STN & elsewhere I certainly do not "slag off" posters...a lovely turn of phrase if I may say.

Your options are boundless...including debating & engaging properly...for instance was it your good self that mentioned on the STN thread recently that you were involved in the original Stansted development as there is a bit of a discussion going on over there which you could possibly interact & help with.

If you do not like my phraseology in posts then no requirement for personal attacks as you can hit the complaint button as advised by mods perhaps or press ignore.

Otherwise it makes you no better than you purport me to be I would hazard.

[AirportPlanner1]

I clicked on the airport’s Black Friday link to book parking and it landed me on the destinations page. Carlisle is on there, from Spring 2019. Has that always been on there, or is it a recent update with actual intent?

[DC3 Dave]

I clicked on the airport’s Black Friday link to book parking and it landed me on the destinations page. Carlisle is on there, from Spring 2019. Has that always been on there, or is it a recent update with actual intent?

It never went away. Only problem is if you click on the Loganair link to book you won't find Carlisle listed.

[SEN Observer]

Anyone got any idea how Paderborn is performing after its very rocky first flight?

[asdf1234]

The natives at the northerly end of SEN's runway are getting very upset about the amount of night flights and the corresponding noise it generates. Apparently the airport CEO has been dispatched to attend a local meeting to face the complaints head on.

[LTNman]

Everyone is entailed to a good nights sleep including those that live near an airport. Stobart is making money out of other peoples misery.

[asdf1234]

Everyone is entailed to a good nights sleep including those that live near an airport. Stobart is making money out of other peoples misery.

It needn't be misery for them - I'm sure I remember seeing in the Noise Action Plan a duty bestowed upon the airport operator by the local authority to supply triple glazing (or other noise reducing measures) to any dwelling adversely affected by noise from the airport. May be someone else more closely interested in the airport could confirm that to be the case?

[Expressflight]

Everyone is entailed to a good nights sleep including those that live near an airport. Stobart is making money out of other peoples misery.
What an odd criticism to aim specifically at Stobart. Surely all airport operators could be accused of that and as LTN is owned by the local authority would you not expect them to be particularly concerned if "misery" was being caused by LTN's night flights? I haven't seen anything to suggest that they are.

[Planespeaking]

Everyone is entailed to a good nights sleep including those that live near an airport. Stobart is making money out of other peoples misery.
Rather a bizarre comment! I may be wrong but hasn't LTN just had severe restrictions placed on it because it exceeded it's night movement quota? Hence the upturn of biz jets at SEN. And LTN is an airport owned by it's local authority. Not much concern shown to local residents there I feel.

[mik3bravo]

The natives at the northerly end of SEN's runway are getting very upset about the amount of night flights and the corresponding noise it generates. Apparently the airport CEO has been dispatched to attend a local meeting to face the complaints head on.
Are SEN operating outside of their planning approval hours of operations? If so, then to what extent: infrequently, or becoming an increasing trend on a daily or weekly basis? Any data available to illustrate the factual position of movements outside approved hours of normal business operations?

[tophat27dt]

Anyone got any idea how Paderborn is performing after its very rocky first flight?

Double figures I believe, but nobody there has been counting.

[LTNman]

Rather a bizarre comment! I may be wrong but hasn't LTN just had severe restrictions placed on it because it exceeded it's night movement quota? Hence the upturn of biz jets at SEN. And LTN is an airport owned by it's local authority. Not much concern shown to local residents there I feel.




Not sure why it is a bazaar comment. All residents should be entitled to a good nights sleep even at airports that are owned by local authorities. At Luton the night noise limits were busted so the problem was moved to Southend so their residents would also suffer. Just think of a noisy party night after night that wakes you up. Should you just sit there and say nothing even if you moved next to a pub?

[Planespeaking]

Not sure why it is a bazaar comment. All residents should be entitled to a good nights sleep even at airports that are owned by local authorities. At Luton the night noise limits were busted so the problem was moved to Southend so their residents would also suffer. Just think of a noisy party night after night that wakes you up. Should you just sit there and say nothing even if you moved next to a pub?
You have been very quiet about night noise at LTN until it was caught out LTNMan, now suddenly because SEN is becoming busier you have come over all eco friendly. By the way I understand SEN is well within it's legal night movement limits. And just for the sake of the Queen's English....bizarre is odd and strange and bazaar is a street market in old Bagdad!

[Expressflight]

Are SEN operating outside of their planning approval hours of operations? If so, then to what extent: infrequently, or becoming an increasing trend on a daily or weekly basis? Any data available to illustrate the factual position of movements outside approved hours of normal business operations?
The Section 106 agreement which formed part of the runway extension planning consent permits a maximum of 120 night period movements per month. I believe that diversions are not included in that number but delayed scheduled flights are. Since June this year when the LTN restrictions came in I don't think that quota has ever been exceeded, although it is permissible to do so as long as any additional movements above 120 are deducted from the next month's quota, but it has probably come close to being fully used. Recently night bizjet activity has picked up again but not to the extent it was in the summer.

LTNman
I'm surprised at your apparent sudden conversion to the environmental cause but I assume you will now be campaigning fro LTN's night quota to be reduced to at least the levels at SEN to prevent annoyance to local residents. By the way, what is the LTN night movement quota number currently? SEN also operates a preferred runway policy with all possible departures being on 05 and arrivals on 23, thus keeping the flight paths away from built-up residential areas.

[SEN Observer]

Double figures I believe, but nobody there has been counting.

Thank you, tophat.

[southside bobby]

All airport operators have to show respect to their neighbours in this modern age & at the very least engage & attempt to mitigate noise issues & act responsibly & be seen to act responsibly.

SEN being a constricted site when it comes to very well established residential areas surrounding it & being unused to night jet movements would have due cause to heed.

LTN has been pointed out as one example & MAG/STN surrounded by fields (lots & lots) according to some views has taken these issues most seriously & delayed seeking further expansion until representation from the local regions was listened too & acted upon as far as possible.

STN has an excellent web track facility for the public too to view any potential noise infringers.

SEN will do well to listen to locals very carefully if only to draw the attention away nationally from night time ops which are increasingly becoming more & more restrictive.

[Expressflight]

[QUOTE=southside bobby;10320848]
SEN being a constricted site when it comes to very well established residential areas surrounding it & being unused to night jet movements would have due cause to heed./QUOTE]

I think it's worth mentioning that prior to the Section 106 agreement which limited SEN night period movements to 120 per month, the previous quota limit was 900 per month. Historically SEN was very busy at night and in the 1980s the local jokes included one which suggested that SEN would close during the day if runway resurfacing was required as it was much busier at night. After that in the 1990s SEN was a freight hub with Electras and CV580s etc. operating an intensive night programme.

The latest SEN Annual Report states that 87% of night movements adhered to the preferential runway policy of 23 arrivals and 05 departures. A glance at satellite imagary will readily show the noise benefits that produces.

[DC3 Dave]

Talking of runway surfaces, does anyone have any further information on the grooving?

[southside bobby]

Have no problems at all with historical data but will that actually cut it in the modern age?.

Obviously the residents reported as "getting very upset" require due diligence from the airport operator in various forms.

They appear not to remember the `80`s anyway evidently.

The backstory is it is redirected & reallocated traffic & not generated by SEN itself in this instance.

Although the poster from LTN was chided as "sour grapes" I think he has a point as when or if a local journo gets the story we could write the headline perhaps..."Noisy multi millionaire`s private jets thrown out of Bedfordshire airport now ruining Southend residents peace at night".

In today`s syndicated journalism the headline would be nationwide very swiftly I feel.

[LTNman]

You have been very quiet about night noise at LTN until it was caught out LTNMan, now suddenly because SEN is becoming busier you have come over all eco friendly. By the way I understand SEN is well within it's legal night movement limits.




You have no idea what campaigns and committees I sit on or what battles I have had over the table with officials. Being legal does not make it right so I would support residents rights to protest as no doubt like Luton the council just ignored them and set a figure that they thought the airport would never reach. I can understand why the plane spotters here can't see a bigger picture and probably don't really care but can anyone find the airport's noise contour maps. I can't find any which suggests there isn't any so are there forces trying to bury bad news seeing there are homes that sit between the approach lights. As a way of comparison this is Luton's so lets play spot the homes within the contour lines. What looks like homes to the west of the runway is in the main a business park.

https://i.imgur.com/UNOJAzr.jpg

[Expressflight]

I can understand why the plane spotters here can't see a bigger picture and probably don't really care but can anyone find the airport's noise contour maps. I can't find any (for SEN) which suggests there isn't any so are there forces trying to bury bad news seeing there are homes that sit between
There are indeed noise contour maps which I believe are a legal requirement together with noise monitoring sites around the airport. Unfortunately I haven't the time to find them just now as I'm just setting off on a three day trip. I would suggest the SEN website via the 'Corporate and Community' link at the bottom of their home page might be the place to start.

[SWBKCB]

There are indeed noise contour maps which I believe are a legal requirement together with noise monitoring sites around the airport. Unfortunately I haven't the time to find them just now as I'm just setting off on a three day trip. I would suggest the SEN website via the 'Corporate and Community' link at the bottom of their home page might be the place to start.

Spot on - Googling Southend Airport and then searching the website with the keyword "noise" takes you to the page linked below - the second link on the page is the "Noise Action Plan" and noise contour maps feature in the annexes of this document.

Noise Management at London Southend Airport (https://southendairport.com/corporate-and-community/noise)

[Falcon666]

Spot on - Googling Southend Airport and then searching the website with the keyword "noise" takes you to the page linked below - the second link on the page is the "Noise Action Plan" and noise contour maps feature in the annexes of this document.

Noise Management at London Southend Airport (https://southendairport.com/corporate-and-community/noise)

Interesting read.
Appears in the summary that the noise action plan and contours (2011) relate to 2014-2019 forecasts.
Does this mean that the Airport will reevaluate next year and could this be a reason the locals are starting to kick off?

[LTNman]

The noise contours were last done in 2011, which is a year before the arrival of Easyjet. As most will know noise is measured in dB but what most folk won't know is that for every additional 3dB of noise the noise level increases by 100% as noise is measured on a logarithmic scale. This is why contour maps are in 3dB segments.

[Expressflight]

The noise contours were last done in 2011, which is a year before the arrival of Easyjet. As most will know noise is measured in dB but what most folk won't know is that for every additional 3dB of noise the noise level increases by 100% as noise is measured on a logarithmic scale. This is why contour maps are in 3dB segments.
......... and I believe the A320neo is around 3db quieter than the A320ceo. There is one neo now based at SEN and reportedly it will be joined by a second such aircraft. The reduction in noise levels is very noticeable and has been commented on locally.

[mik3bravo]

Wonder what aircraft Ryanair will base at SEN, given advances in Airbus engine noise reductions which Easyjet enjoy.

[southside bobby]

Re the RYR base...a local posed the question of the r/w grooving yesterday & I have asked the question twice before concerning grooving as I thought this was conditional for commencement of RYR ops.

[fatmed]

Re the RYR base...a local posed the question of the r/w grooving yesterday & I have asked the question twice before concerning grooving as I thought this was conditional for commencement of RYR ops.

From what I have read on Sen OPS FB page some ancillary works have been taking place over last few weeks with the Grooving due to start in January.

FM

[Sharklet_321]

Good news in October over 145,000 passengers used the airport taking rolling 12 month figures well over 1.45m. Looks like the most popular routes were Amsterdam and Dublin. Manchester not doing well at all by the look of it.

[southside bobby]

Grooving...thanks for the info.That would fit the timeline then for Spring`19 commencement.

[tophat27dt]

Grooving...thanks for the info.That would fit the timeline then for Spring`19 commencement.
Yes. Everything is on schedule and NOTAMs are out stating the runway closure dates and times.

[SARF]

The people of the marine estate in Leigh on sea would complain about the noise of a nearby bees nest ..
They were renowned for their anti station parking antics and have managed to secure some natty new concrete steps to save them all ten minutes walk to the station down belton way..
If ryan air decided to come in 200 feet lower the rest of Leigh on sea would get deck chairs out, sit on marine parade and laugh

[runwayman]

Re-surfacing of the runway in the 80's was as you say Express Flight carried out during the day (duration 3-4 days) for that exact reason

[SARF]

I’m sure a week or two back I saw an Airbus A400 atlas leaving SEN as I was walking the dog in Belfairs wood .
Can anyone confirm this?

[Planespeaking]

I’m sure a week or two back I saw an Airbus A400 atlas leaving SEN as I was walking the dog in Belfairs wood .
Can anyone confirm this?

You certainly did!

[SARF]

Cheers Ps......

[tophat27dt]

I read that Ryanair have changed their Corfu schedule from SEN next year from Tuesdays and Saturdays to Tuesdays and Sundays instead, which has got bad reaction from some who have already booked their ground packages and must either change or cancel. Are any of the other destinations affected?

[mikkie4]

Wednesday has been and gone ,thought an announcement was being made today about who was going to take over FLYBE,(BA/ VIRGIN/STOBART) unless iv missed it

[PDXCWL45]

Wednesday has been and gone ,thought an announcement was being made today about who was going to take over FLYBE,(BA/ VIRGIN/STOBART) unless iv missed it

I'd have thought that they'd announce it on a Thursday.

[AirportPlanner1]

Anyone know why MAN has swapped to an E195 two days in a row with the ATR going to DUB? I thought perhaps to switch aircraft but the same one came straight back. I also thought football but there don’t seem to be any relevant fixtures.

[asdf1234]

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-6443791/Showdown-Stobart-inside-story-ugly-boardroom-battle-fought-High-Court.html

[Andy_S]

No one comes out of this business very well.

[tophat27dt]

No one comes out of this business very well.
Odd no news on who has bought what in Flybe, and whether that will affect SEN ops next year.

[DC3 Dave]

This doesn't make good reading, but does it suggest a slightly more sober approach?

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/shock-as-stobart-slashes-dividend-by-two-thirds-a4006726.html

[LTNman]

Attracting business to the airport is one thing but making a profit out of that business is quite another.

[asdf1234]

This doesn't make good reading, but does it suggest a slightly more sober approach?

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/shock-as-stobart-slashes-dividend-by-two-thirds-a4006726.html
ive been pointing out for a few years now that the selling of the family silver cannot go on forever and that operational profits are needed .however this announcement is more bad news - "we don't have any operational profits to distribute so we will tighten our belts and eke out the remaining family silver". One can only assume the FR deal will take longer to generate profits than expected .

[LTNman]

Who is to say it will make any money at all with the Stobart relying on cups of tea sold and everyone arriving by car. When airports grow the cowboy parking companies get involved with offsite parking so the airport earns nothing.

[SWBKCB]

Who is to say it will make any money at all with the Stobart relying on cups of tea sold and everyone arriving by car. When airports grow the cowboy parking companies get involved with offsite parking so the airport earns nothing.

Can't think of many successful airports with empty car parks?

[Andy_S]

ive been pointing out for a few years now that the selling of the family silver cannot go on forever and that operational profits are needed .however this announcement is more bad news - "we don't have any operational profits to distribute so we will tighten our belts and eke out the remaining family silver". One can only assume the FR deal will take longer to generate profits than expected .

What they've been doing, up to now, has been downright irresponsible. Paying dividends out of asset sales rather than profits in order to artificially boost the share price, when they should have been re-investing in the business.

Since they've been claiming that the dividend will be supported by earnings by (correct me if I'm wrong) 2020, then reading between the lines profitability has been pushed back.

[DC3 Dave]

Class.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17277873.inside-the-navigator-southend-airports-new-pub/

[compton3bravo]

A wide burger range - says it all about the eating habits of the Great British public! Dropping the Laker name - how could they - outrageous - for all what he did for the airport and aviation in general.

[Planespeaking]

A wide burger range - says it all about the eating habits of the Great British public! Dropping the Laker name - how could they - outrageous - for all what he did for the airport and aviation in general.

Quite agree, if it wasn't for Sir Freddie and his committment to SEN in the 50s and 60s it is likely Southend 's airport may well have been a housing estate by now. Bring back the Laker name!!

[AirportPlanner1]

I have to agree. Even though it’s now been taken on by a large operator, there’s no excuse for not retaining the Lakers name. Wetherspoons don’t seem to have a problem with individual names at sites that reflect the building’s past or something locally significant.

I suspect someone in corporate office or their brand consultancy has said “what the hell is Laker, we need something bang on point for an airport, a bit retro so it’s trendy...oh yes, the Navigator”.

Credit where it’s due though for stocking local beers.

[DC3 Dave]

I suppose you could name the terminal after Freddie Laker, but what would Mr Tinker feel about it?

Possibly the way around this dilemma would be to name the access road, The Andrew Tinkler Way. Or maybe The Andrew Tinkler Baggage Reclaim Hall would keep everyone happy.

[Planespeaking]

I suppose you could name the terminal after Freddie Laker, but what would Mr Tinker feel about it?

Possibly the way around this dilemma would be to name the access road, The Andrew Tinkler Way. Or maybe The Andrew Tinkler Baggage Reclaim Hall would keep everyone happy.
With Tinkler having been booted out by the Stobart Air board I don't think his wishes will carry much weight.

[DC3 Dave]

With Tinkler having been booted out by the Stobart Air board I don't think his wishes will carry much weight.

​​​​​​Ah, but Freddie Laker's Skytrain licence was revoked by the government in 1975, yet three years later they gave him a knighthood. So don't be surprised if the name Tinkler appears over a doorway or on a plaque one day.

[runwayman]

Winter Adria Paderborn schedule will stop on 6 Jan may be re-instated Summer 2019 depending on advance bookings

[Barling Magna]

No surprise there. It was a strange time to start a new schedule.

[tophat27dt]

No surprise there. It was a strange time to start a new schedule.
Yes. Should have started may 1st

[southside bobby]

Adria/Paderborn..."may be re-instated Summer 2019 depending on advance bookings"...

A rather catchall rather dubious statement of intent.

May they perhaps consider future ops from STN with their projected new SSJ`s?.

[Planespeaking]

Adria/Paderborn..."may be re-instated Summer 2019 depending on advance bookings"...

A rather catchall rather dubious statement of intent.

May they perhaps consider future ops from STN with their projected new SSJ`s?.

Let's hope so SSB with SSJ's from STN!!

[AirportPlanner1]

May they perhaps consider future ops from STN with their projected new SSJ`s?.

If they did it would be equally as unsuccessful unless they improve their schedule and lower their prices.

[Expressflight]

If they did it would be equally as unsuccessful unless they improve their schedule and lower their prices.
It was a hopeless schedule from all perspectives being Tuesday and Thursday early afternoon and Sunday morning. It didn't meets the needs of the weekend break market nor the business user. It needed something like Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday (p.m.) as a minimum with promotional weekend break fares. Whoever did the feasibility study for the route didn't do much of a job in that respect or the airline didn't listen.

[LGS6753]

An interesting analysis from Blue Swan Daily:

https://blueswandaily.com/london-calling-more-slots-available-in-summer-2019-despite-increasing-capital-congestion/

[AirportPlanner1]

I see the inaugural Sofia flight today didn’t quite go to plan...it diverted to Bucharest due to weather

[mikkie4]

to much SNOW ,pax put in hotels & will continue their flight to SOFIA on MONDAY

[runwayman]

New service to Chisinau in Moldova (for those who don't know!) by Fly One starting 19 July twice weekly they operate 1 x A319 & 2 X A320 !

[tophat27dt]

New service to Chisinau in Moldova (for those who don't know!) by Fly One starting 19 July twice weekly they operate 1 x A319 & 2 X A320 !
Good news but I hope their schedule doesn't clash with those of Air Moldova into STN.

[AirportPlanner1]

Good news, though I’ve got a feeling they announced STN previously and it never came to fruition.

This will be SEN’s first late departure, going out at 22:40 on Tuesday and Friday. Connections to Moscow are also on sale.

[Expressflight]

Good news, though I’ve got a feeling they announced STN previously and it never came to fruition.
The Air Moldova website shows KIV-STN as bookable 5 x weekly. To me KIV-SEN seems an odd choice of route.

[AirportPlanner1]

I don’t think I’ve seen it reported but Cagliari is dropped next year. So Air Malta will be 5x weekly - 2x weekly Catania and 3x weekly Malta.

[SWBKCB]

To me KIV-SEN seems an odd choice of route.

Isn't this the sort of market SEN was after - new entrants which want an alternative to the other LON airports?

[tophat27dt]

Isn't this the sort of market SEN was after - new entrants which want an alternative to the other LON airports?
Yes indeed. Let's hope the service will be better advertised both sides than the Paderborn was.

[mikkie4]

The connection to MOSCOW could be a good thing if the timing is right and to be able to book a thru ticket,,,,SEN -MOSCOW BRING IT ON

[Expressflight]

Isn't this the sort of market SEN was after - new entrants which want an alternative to the other LON airports?
Yes but your choice of routes needs care. A small market already well covered at two other LON airports doesn't tick many boxes with me.

[tophat27dt]

Yes but your choice of routes needs care. A small market already well covered at two other LON airports doesn't tick many boxes with me.
Do we know how many weeks the flights will operate?

[DC3 Dave]

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17302782.flyone-launches-route-to-chisinau-from-southend-airport/

[davidjohnson6]

London-Moscow is about 4 hours flying time.
Going via Chisinau adds at least an hour of flying time without even considering time for an aircraft to climb/descend or time changing planes

I've flown with FlyOne and AirMoldova - neither is luxurious. If Easyjet can't make London-Moscow work, then along with the plethora of options via places like Amsterdam, Frankfurt or Copenhagen it will be very hard to persuade people to buy Southend-Chisinau-Moscow unless the price is very low

[Expressflight]

I don’t think I’ve seen it reported but Cagliari is dropped next year. So Air Malta will be 5x weekly - 2x weekly Catania and 3x weekly Malta.

Average pax loads on CAG were around 100 since the route commenced this summer.

[Barling Magna]

Average pax loads on CAG were around 100 since the route commenced this summer.

Could be a successful route for an E195 then....?

[tophat27dt]

Could be a successful route for an E195 then....?
But at what price per seat I wonder.

[AirportPlanner1]

it will be very hard to persuade people to buy Southend-Chisinau-Moscow unless the price is very low

I flew MAN-SEN and someone was connecting to GLA. People will definitely fly SEN-Chisinau-Moscow if it saves them a tenner.

[compton3bravo]

On the same day Wizz announced a new route to Catania from Luton (did Air Malta know) and increasing the Chisinau service from nine to ten weekly. I think Air Moldova will need all the luck they can muster.

[DC3 Dave]

It's never good to read that a route will end, but I see Air Malta's decision to continue into the summer of 2019 as a real positive. Or looked at from another way, had they called it a day that would have been a kick in the teeth for SEN.

[DC3 Dave]

Glyn Jones has been quiet for so long I wondered if he'd been poisoned by a dodgy cockle or whelk from Old Leigh. Here he seems back to his best:

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17303699.how-southend-airport-has-changed-in-the-last-very-successful-decade/

[Tagron]

It looks to me that the Air Malta SEN - Cagliari service has only been suspended for the winter. The Air Malta timetable shows it resuming on March 31 then continuing through S19 .
So the KM schedule for SEN summer 2019 is daily. 3 x MLA non stop, 2 via CTA, 2 via CAG

[tophat27dt]

I don’t think I’ve seen it reported but Cagliari is dropped next year. So Air Malta will be 5x weekly - 2x weekly Catania and 3x weekly Malta.
I heard differently.......

[rog747]

Can KM make MLA non-stop without payload limits?

[AirportPlanner1]

I heard differently.......

Source? There are no flights to book for either Cagliari or Malta on the two days it previously operated. That is for June, not winter.

[SEN Observer]

tophat......What have you heard differently? I have just had a poke around on Air Malta's booking site and every time I tried Southend to Cagliari for June next year I got redirected to Heathrow flights. Obviously not saying you're wrong, but what goes on?

[tophat27dt]

tophat......What have you heard differently? I have just had a poke around on Air Malta's booking site and every time I tried Southend to Cagliari for June next year I got redirected to Heathrow flights. Obviously not saying you're wrong, but what goes on?
Sorry, but I was relying on Tagrons earlier post as being correct. I haven't had a free moment to explore the website myself yet.

[AMC737]

At the moment Air Malta's Cagliari flights are using Gatwick twice a week. For the summer season Malta Cagliari is bookable however the return is 7 hours 45 minutes after arrival in Cagliari implying the the aircraft will go on somewhere else, whether this is Gatwick or Southend who knows. Air Malta does have form for announcing new routes quite late though.

amc737

[shamrock7seal]

Runway length must surely be a punishing factor for some of the routes at SEN? I'm thinking in particular of services to Tenerife, Malta, Corfu etc.

[asdf1234]

Runway resurfacing starts January overnight for 3 months. Means runway closed 23:30 - 06:30 daily.

[tophat27dt]

Runway resurfacing starts January overnight for 3 months. Means runway closed 23:30 - 06:30 daily.
Runway grooving.

[asdf1234]

Runway grooving.

Yes they will be grooving the runway as part of the resurfacing work.

[LTNman]

3 months seems a long time to tarmac and groove a shortish narrow runway. One man and his dog comes to mind.

[tophat27dt]

3 months seems a long time to tarmac and groove a shortish narrow runway. One man and his dog comes to mind.
Wrong again. There will be two dogs.

[danielson81]

Air Malta is moving its Gatwick flight to Southend today and maybe tomorrow. A very small version of Ryanair moving Gatwick flights to Stansted :rolleyes:

Although I expect some passengers who live in the South of England won't be too pleased, but at least the flight is operating.

[DC3 Dave]

At least they will make up the extra time spent traveling as they speed through to their gate.

[DC3 Dave]

Some basic information regarding the runway works. No dogs involved apparently.

https://southendairport.com/frequently-asked-questions/planned-runway-works

[brian_dromey]

Air Malta is moving its Gatwick flight to Southend today and maybe tomorrow. A very small version of Ryanair moving Gatwick flights to Stansted :rolleyes:

Although I expect some passengers who live in the South of England won't be too pleased, but at least the flight is operating.

Im not sure the sarcasm is necessary? Fair play to Air Malta, at short notice. I suppose they already have handling agreements in place at SEN, which helps. Ryanair only operate 11 flights a day from LGW. 8 to Dublin, one each to Cork, Shannon and Alicante. Proportionally it would be pretty similar.

Although small in numbers, relocations like Ryanair and Air Malta have a two-fold benefit, their passengers get away and are not clogging up Gatwick as it recovers.

[AirportPlanner1]

Winter Adria Paderborn schedule will stop on 6 Jan may be re-instated Summer 2019 depending on advance bookings

CAA stats for November show an average load of 8.75. Ouch!

[tophat27dt]

CAA stats for November show an average load of 8.75. Ouch!
Thats why it's being dropped and they will think about the future plans. Certainly it needs more advertising both ends, and a better schedule to attract the IT people to use it. As a tourist route, I doubt if it can survive. Maybe Adria should consider Ljubljana instead. A nice city centrally placed for the lakes mountains and beaches.

[davidjohnson6]

How did Cityjet manage on their London City-Paderborn route 5 years ago ? They used a Fokker 50 and I seem to remember loads being higher than 9 pax per flight...
Even when OLT Express ran their ill fated routes to Saarbrucken and Dresden from Southend it wasn't that bad.
Is it lack of advertising ? Stupidly high pricing ? Bad schedule ? Something else ?

[tophat27dt]

How did Cityjet manage on their London City-Paderborn route 5 years ago ? They used a Fokker 50 and I seem to remember loads being higher than 9 pax per flight...
Even when OLT Express ran their ill fated routes to Saarbrucken and Dresden from Southend it wasn't that bad.
Is it lack of advertising ? Stupidly high pricing ? Bad schedule ? Something else ?
I think it's a combination of all three...and maybe something else!

[AirportPlanner1]

With the fares they charge for the schedule they operate they’ve done well to get that many. I see the Tuesday flight has been cancelled the last two weeks in a row, I guess we can take from that most people are travelling Thu-Sun in either direction and those loads are better (although still very poor).

Re Cityjet I think their route was daily. I think it was also cheaper. Much more attractive to business pax than flying in the middle of the day on a Tuesday or Thursday

[compton3bravo]

I cannot see Ljubljana working either. Easy have a daily some twice daily from Stansted and also Wizz from Luton.

[Cyrano]

Maybe Adria should consider Ljubljana instead.
The issue is that Adria has done a deal with Paderborn Airport where Paderborn pays them a considerable sum to base an aircraft there to operate a number of routes. There is some middle-of-the-day space on the Paderborn aircraft and they used it for SEN.

If you're proposing that SEN-LJU would work, a couple of questions:

Who would use the service? UK leisure passengers? Slovenian business passengers? How would it be more competitive than Wizz Air's LTN-LJU?
Since the profitability of the route would be - let's say - "uncertain":cool:, who would be underwriting the service to convince the airline? Stobart? Ljubljana Airport?

[N707ZS]

If Stobart was brought in to run your local airport would you be happy?

[Planespeaking]

If Stobart was brought in to run your local airport would you be happy?

I hold no brief for Stobart, but what is that remark supposed to mean? When Stobart took over SEN the pax through put was minimal with one flight a week to Jersey during the summer.

Now nearly £200 million later with an extended runway, new terminal, new apron, control tower and state of the art radar and pax numbers on the way to two million what's not to like. Oh and by the way add a brand new railway station connecting the airport to London in 50 mins with up to eight trains an hour.

I have a feeling SOU for one would be pleased with that kind of investment!

[SWBKCB]

If Stobart was brought in to run your local airport would you be happy?

This relates to the rumour that Stobart may be the new operator of DTVA if the Mayor succeeds in buying the airport from Peel.

[DC3 Dave]

If Stobart was brought in to run your local airport would you be happy?

It's a good job that Stobaphobia is not yet classified as a hate crime!!!

[N707ZS]

It's not a criticism, it was an honest question. Planespeaking has given me the best answer. If they can do to my local what they have done to Southend it would be great.

[tws123]

Heard yet another rumour from a pilot that Ryanair will be using Laudamotion aircraft for SEN operations. Do we still have no definitive answer on this?

[tophat27dt]

Heard yet another rumour from a pilot that Ryanair will be using Laudamotion aircraft for SEN operations. Do we still have no definitive answer on this?
I have always feared that a B738 operation from SEN might suffer to many set backs, despite the runway upgrading due to start soon. An A320 operation makes sense to me.

[fatmed]

They will be using the 737-800 with short field performance package.

[tophat27dt]

They will be using the 737-800 with short field performance package.
So the Laudamotion rumour is rubbish ? I am neutral on this

[brian_dromey]

I have always feared that a B738 operation from SEN might suffer to many set backs, despite the runway upgrading due to start soon. An A320 operation makes sense to me.
Is A320 performance markedly better on the routes FR will be operating on? Apart for the Greek routes the others are all ~2hours flight time. What is the impact of the short-field package, does it benefit both take-off and landing?
Laudamotion is an interesting experiment, not only are they operating A320/A320 but they seem to be rolling over their inherited AB aircraft for IAE-powered A320s. Lauda currently have 11 aircraft, and plans for them, no doubt, but if needs be they could swap around with FR 737s. I think FR operated some flights for Lauda, they might still?

[blind pew]

anyone with contacts with the train service. Two out of three recent visits up to fifteen minutes to buy a ticket including at the ticket machine! Generally two staff at the counter with one window open.
Love using the old Rochford airport which I first ventured across over sixty years ago and the only other complaints is the security scanner where I always have to take my shoes off and then stand like Jesus sans cross for no particular reason and the phone reception in the airport!
Rest a pleasure.

[AirportPlanner1]

blind pew - If you have a smartphone you can buy an e-ticket through the Greater Anglia app. The apps of some other operators also have this function. The ticket works immediately.

Alternatively buy a ticket in advance from the website of any rail operator and collect it from a station convenient to you. Don’t wait until you’re in Southend as you’ll still have to queue! Having a ticket about your person also means being ready for a train should one come as soon as you reach the station.

To be fair, Southend isn’t the only airport station with long queues - I had the same at MAN on my first visit and quickly learnt my lesson.

Cant comment on phone reception- I’ve never had a problem other than at security where you shouldn’t be using it anyway though free WiFi is available.

[blind pew]

Tried that but the only link had buy the ticket and collect it at the machine in the station which I saw others doing using their phone. But there was a 15 minute wait on the machine. Doesn't seem available. As I'm flying in from abroad the option of visiting a railway station isn't available.
Two ticket machines aren't enough and one lazy ticket seller doesn't help.

[tophat27dt]

Tried that but the only link had buy the ticket and collect it at the machine in the station which I saw others doing using their phone. But there was a 15 minute wait on the machine. Doesn't seem available. As I'm flying in from abroad the option of visiting a railway station isn't available.
Two ticket machines aren't enough and one lazy ticket seller doesn't help.
Complain to the lazy ticket seller.

[Expressflight]

Is A320 performance markedly better on the routes FR will be operating on? Apart for the Greek routes the others are all ~2hours flight time. What is the impact of the short-field package, does it benefit both take-off and landing?
Laudamotion is an interesting experiment, not only are they operating A320/A320 but they seem to be rolling over their inherited AB aircraft for IAE-powered A320s. Lauda currently have 11 aircraft, and plans for them, no doubt, but if needs be they could swap around with FR 737s. I think FR operated some flights for Lauda, they might still?
I think it's mainly the LDR which is the critical factor at SEN for RYRs 738 SFP fleet. The 'standard' 738 is not commercially viable at SEN. That is the main reason the runway is being grooved during the next couple of months. Grooving should normally mean that a runway can be treated as Dry in terms of performance calculations and only in exceptional circumstances is it likely to be declared WET WET WET when the extra 15% LDR would apply. I assume that RYR SOPs treat a grooved runway in this way and there must have been discussions on the subject between the parties when the SEN/RYR deal was struck.

[brian_dromey]

Tried that but the only link had buy the ticket and collect it at the machine in the station which I saw others doing using their phone. But there was a 15 minute wait on the machine. Doesn't seem available. As I'm flying in from abroad the option of visiting a railway station isn't available.
Two ticket machines aren't enough and one lazy ticket seller doesn't help.

The trainline app allows you to buy tickets for travel. Southend Airport has e-tickets available, but not all stations do. With the most recent update the tickets are saved to your Apple Wallet, like a boarding pass and pop up based on time/location.

I think it's mainly the LDR which is the critical factor at SEN for RYRs 738 SFP fleet. The 'standard' 738 is not commercially viable at SEN.
That much of a restriction? Would loads be reduced to less than 150 like a 737-700, or is it a restriction which cannot be overcome by limiting load and inherent to the 738 due to speeds/angles/etc?

[southside bobby]

WET WET WET…

So how is it that STN with a fully International compatible & grooved R/W declares 3 WET`s in any & all precipitation?

[Expressflight]

WET WET WET…
So how is it that STN with a fully International compatible & grooved R/W declares 3 WET`s in any & all precipitation?
I suppose it must be because the runway exhibits a reflective surface sheen "in any & all precipitation". If so it would suggest the grooving is not serving its purpose for some reason.

[Expressflight]

That much of a restriction? Would loads be reduced to less than 150 like a 737-700, or is it a restriction which cannot be overcome by limiting load and inherent to the 738 due to speeds/angles/etc?
I used to have the figures for the 738 and from memory something around 90 pax was the maximum that SEN's LDA of 1604m would allow. The only pax flights of a 738 at SEN were two Luxair departures to Pau with rugby supporters, both being full. The aircraft positioned in empty each time having flown the pax into LTN a day or so earlier.

[Suzeman]

Heard yet another rumour from a pilot that Ryanair will be using Laudamotion aircraft for SEN operations. Do we still have no definitive answer on this?

FWIW Ryanair are operating at least one DUB-VIE-DUB rotation a week (think it is Sunday) using a Laudamotion flight number and callsign, so there is already some form of co-operation going on.

[DC3 Dave]

It's an interesting discussion, but I think we can rest assured that FR have carried out all the necessary evaluations, have a plan in place and are not just going to suck it and see.

[Expressflight]

It's an interesting discussion, but I think we can rest assured that FR have carried out all the necessary evaluations, have a plan in place and are not just going to suck it and see.
I totally agree.

[brian_dromey]

FWIW Ryanair are operating at least one DUB-VIE-DUB rotation a week (think it is Sunday) using a Laudamotion flight number and callsign, so there is already some form of co-operation going on.
All the DUB-VIE and DUB-INN are bing operated by Laudamotion, as are both daily VIE-STN.


It's an interesting discussion, but I think we can rest assured that FR have carried out all the necessary evaluations, have a plan in place and are not just going to suck it and see.
Absolutely, FR will know what they are doing for sure. But its interesting to learn why the standard 738 can't use SEN profitably. I had assumed it was a case of take-off performance being the issue, rather than landing, for example. Some posters will claim one airline/aircraft/airport is 'better'/'no different' than another. This type of discussion is actually interesting, rather than a p**sing contest.

[blind pew]

From what I understood when I tried to buy one is that I still had to get one printed from the station ticket machine..or maybe I was trying the wrong app as it didn't give me the choice of using my phone for travel.
as for complaining to a bulldog behind the desk ..did that in the 70s and got off loaded from the aircraft in Jersey and told to get the boat back. The second was to the station chief in Vilnius after I caught her stealing from the aircraft.. nearly lost my command on that one and whilst the airline lasted forever had problems buying tickets and regularly down graded from business class..

[brian_dromey]

From what I understood when I tried to buy one is that I still had to get one printed from the station ticket machine..or maybe I was trying the wrong app as it didn't give me the choice of using my phone for travel.
It may depend on the app. The Trainline app gives a little pop-up to say mobile tickets are available, so acceptance may have changed. Not all tickets are available digitally. Anything with a TFL travelcard or cross London journey has to be printed on ticket stock, so if you were going beyond "London Terminals" you would have required a ticket in any case.

[SWBKCB]

It may depend on the app. The Trainline app gives a little pop-up to say mobile tickets are available, so acceptance may have changed. Not all tickets are available digitally. Anything with a TFL travelcard or cross London journey has to be printed on ticket stock, so if you were going beyond "London Terminals" you would have required a ticket in any case.

And they wonder why people just get in their cars...

[Expressflight]

Absolutely, FR will know what they are doing for sure. But its interesting to learn why the standard 738 can't use SEN profitably. I had assumed it was a case of take-off performance being the issue, rather than landing, for example.

I calculated that the standard 738 could just carry 190 pax into SEN with a dry runway but that commercial operations were not viable due to the fact that it would be excessively payload restricted in WET conditions. Perhaps there is someone here with access to the OM and they could quantify that restriction accurately. The standard 738 does seem to have a higher Vapp than, say, the A320 so perhaps that is one of the reasons for its greater LDR.

[rog747]

Both SEN and SOU ops using the 737-800 or the new MAX are not going to be economically viable for any LCC operator with the runways as they are.

The performance penalties and payload restrictions are too great - hence why no one has used this type to date at either airport in any numbers - same applies to GIB ops too.
Not gonna happen with a 738 or a MAX, they are slippery fast beasts on approach.

The 737-300 to the 700 series are very different beasts and all those types can op OK to/from the above airports.

My pal flies both 737 & Max at Norwegian (he is a skipper) - he has crunched numbers for ops in and out of SOU (and GIB) and the £££figures do not add up with the severe payload penalties

Assume SEN is very similar due to runway length - Is this why FR are switching to using Lauda's A320's??? - these aircraft are much more suitable for ops out of SEN and SOU

Time will see if Ryanair will be successful or not using its 738 out of SEN

[Expressflight]

rog747

You musn't confuse the standard 738 with the 738SFP as the latter has been produced specifically to allow operations into airports which previously could not support viable 738 operations. Those aircraft with the SFP package can operate viably from SEN and, probably, from SOU as well.

[rog747]

I'm not,
My pal at DI/D8 mentions the 737NG/SFP Short Field package option versions also suffer payload limitations when operating in 189 pax high density configurations

Time will tell if Ryanair make a go of it out of SEN with their 738 or MAX - The MAX is even more restricted
They quit Belfast Harbour BHD due to such limits

[737aviator]

Is SEN just getting standard grooving or will the runway be certified 'WSR'. Only a damp standard grooved runway can be considered dry for purposes of calculations. But WSR is a different beast and is prob required to keep the show on the road when the rain comes.

RYR quite happily operate in and out of Dortmund which has a LDA of 1700m, prob the shortest LDA in the existing network. But it has certification for WSR which makes a big difference.

The shortest I've operated quite a bit in to is in the region of 1800m and yes when wet and full pax its quite limiting in how much extra fuel one can have so 1600 is gonna be fun, especially combined with narrow runway ops!

[DC3 Dave]

I'm not,
My pal at DI/D8 mentions the 737NG/SFP Short Field package option versions also suffer payload limitations when operating in 189 pax high density configurations

Time will tell if Ryanair make a go of it out of SEN with their 738 or MAX - The MAX is even more restricted
They quit Belfast Harbour BHD due to such limits


Well, that's a correct statement but the runway at BHD was going to be extended and the endless delays made FR walk (or fly if you prefer).

They know exactly what they're getting at SEN. A 1799m declared runway (which I believe is actually 1856m), and a LDA of 1604m. Plus additional paved extension which gives you close to 2000m. And I do understand that the declared distances are the only ones that can be used, but when distances stated are the absolute minimum requirement, surely additional paved distance would be taken into consideration by the decision makers.

[Expressflight]

They know exactly what they're getting at SEN. A 1799m declared runway (which I believe is actually 1856m), and a LDA of 1604m. Plus additional paved extension which gives you close to 2000m. And I do understand that the declared distances are the only ones that can be used, but when distances stated are the absolute minimum requirement, surely additional paved distance would be taken into consideration by the decision makers.
The total length of the paved strip is about 1950m with the pavement beyond the end of the 1604m LDA measuring 180m on 05 and 135m on 23. On 23 there is additional unpaved RESA of some 160m.

[Expressflight]

Is SEN just getting standard grooving or will the runway be certified 'WSR'. Only a damp standard grooved runway can be considered dry for purposes of calculations. But WSR is a different beast and is prob required to keep the show on the road when the rain comes.
WSR certification? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that term.

[Barling Magna]

Doesn't it mean Wet Snow on Runway? Quite a rare experience for SEN.

[737aviator]

WSR is 'Wet Skid-Resistant'

[tophat27dt]

Doesn't it mean Wet Snow on Runway? Quite a rare experience for SEN.
HA HA! I like it .

[Expressflight]

WSR is 'Wet Skid-Resistant'
In order to achieve WSR 'certification' does the runway surface have to be 'roughened' to increase its macrotexture value and thus its Wet Skid-Resistance?

[Barling Magna]

HA HA! I like it .

That's my Canadian origins revealed.........

[tophat27dt]

That's my Canadian origins revealed.........
Really? I never knew that!

[southside bobby]

No W(h)izz unfortunately...

But certainly whizz added to SEN...

Stobart state they have bought two robots which "whizz" around the airport to answer customer queries.

[DC3 Dave]

The robots have been named Freddie and Laker following a poll of 96 people.

Please note this is a factual post, not another pathetic attempt at humour.

[southside bobby]

Interesting poll perhaps as very few at SEN under our age Dave would have the foggiest at the association with Sir Fred at SEN & actually with STN too & then only in historical terms.

After saying that I did point out weeks past that it was a mistake to replace the Laker name over the bar with a quite boring generic name.

Possibly that may be one of the first queries of them then...as to why named so?.

[N707ZS]

Did Laker fly from Southend?

[ericlday]

According to your best friend Google..... Laker often flew the aircraft himself. By 1954, Channel Air Bridge, his second airline venture, was flying cars and their owners in Bristol Freighters from Southend Airport (Rochford) to Calais.

[LGS6753]

Laker the airline didn't, but Freddie Laker was the principal of Channel Air Bridge and Aviation Traders, both based at SEN.

[N707ZS]

Thanks for the simple civil answer LGS6753.

[willy wombat]

And let us not forget Freddie's manufacturing enterprises. He didn't just fly Carvairs, he developed them and had a stab at a twin turboprop (The Accountant) all at SEN (I hope I've got my facts right as these are from memory, not google).

[SWBKCB]

Ah, yes 'the Accountant' - definitely ahead of his time again in paying homage to the importance of the bean-counter....

[southside bobby]

& before my time too...The Aviation Traders Accountant with the first personalised registration G-ATEL.

[Barling Magna]

It always struck me as a nice coincidence that several years later Channel Airways' four new HS748s were registered in normal sequence G-ATEH to G-ATEK so providing a SEN link with the Accountant (and the dark rumours that the 748 was a rip-off of the Accountant).

[Planespeaking]

It always struck me as a nice coincidence that several years later Channel Airways' four new HS748s were registered in normal sequence G-ATEH to G-ATEK so providing a SEN link with the Accountant (and the dark rumours that the 748 was a rip-off of the Accountant).
Well the wings, engine mountings and undercarriage installation and fairings certainly were. Avro bought them as a job lot. It's a matter of record.

[Expressflight]

A second A320neo is due to become SEN-based wef 7th January. The base will then comprise 2 x A320neo and 2 x A319.

[stewyb]

A second A320neo is due to become SEN-based wef 7th January. The base will then comprise 2 x A320neo and 2 x A319.

Does the neo have better short field performance over the ceo?

[Expressflight]

Does the neo have better short field performance over the ceo?
I think weight for weight the field performance of the two is similar but the improved fuel efficiency of the neo means that less fuel need be carried on a given sector which allows a corresponding increase in revenue payload. Maybe someone with access to the performance charts can give a more authoritative answer.

[Falcon666]

Airbus has developed a short field performance package for the A 320neo called SHARP which includes Kevlar composite panelling.
Not sure if this is a package that EasyJet have signed up for though.

[DC3 Dave]

I think weight for weight the field performance of the two is similar but the improved fuel efficiency of the neo means that less fuel need be carried on a given sector which allows a corresponding increase in revenue payload. Maybe someone with access to the performance charts can give a more authoritative answer.

Your answer makes perfect sense and falls in line with previous posts in the last year or two which have suggested that gains from the neo will significantly benefit operations at SEN. What I find encouraging is that EZY seemed to have moved quickly in placing two of their finest assets here, rather than use the airport as somewhere where their oldest 319's can see out their days.

It appears to be a not dissimilar story with FR. It's clearly not an easy fit between their 738's and SEN. Yet they have obviously done much work to make their arrival possible, whatever solution they have come up with.

It is surely now the case that both these major airlines have demonstrated that SEN has a solid future that they wish to benefit from.

[stewyb]

I think weight for weight the field performance of the two is similar but the improved fuel efficiency of the neo means that less fuel need be carried on a given sector which allows a corresponding increase in revenue payload. Maybe someone with access to the performance charts can give a more authoritative answer.
Makes sense and would fit SOU perfectly once extension completed!

[rog747]

Your answer makes perfect sense and falls in line with previous posts in the last year or two which have suggested that gains from the neo will significantly benefit operations at SEN. What I find encouraging is that EZY seemed to have moved quickly in placing two of their finest assets here, rather than use the airport as somewhere where their oldest 319's can see out their days.

It appears to be a not dissimilar story with FR. It's clearly not an easy fit between their 738's and SEN. Yet they have obviously done much work to make their arrival possible, whatever solution they have come up with.

It is surely now the case that both these major airlines have demonstrated that SEN has a solid future that they wish to benefit from.

EZY's A319's have derated engines and so they are not actually optimum for the longer routes that EZY are developing from SEN such as the Canaries etc - here the A320 can operate those routes with only a small payload limitation and lower op'g costs - As seen with more A320 ops from SEN...
I assume the Neo can see that payload limit reduced further as mentioned above.

I gather EZY are removing all their A319's venually from the fleet

[SWBKCB]

What I find encouraging is that EZY seemed to have moved quickly in placing two of their finest assets here, rather than use the airport as somewhere where their oldest 319's can see out their day

or conversly have found the airfield so constraining that they have had to deploy their more capable assetts?

[SEN Observer]

Sorry, can't post the link at the moment, but it seems it's not just Cagliari in the doldrums but Catania as well. Southend Echo website has the story.

[DC3 Dave]

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17336233.air-malta-scraps-flights-from-southend-less-than-a-year-after-introduction/

​​​​​​

[Barling Magna]

It always seemed rather optimistic winter scheduling to me. The summer volumes were high though so let's see what transpires in S19.

[Expressflight]

Sorry, can't post the link at the moment, but it seems it's not just Cagliari in the doldrums but Catania as well. Southend Echo website has the story.
I don't quite see why you're questioning the future of SEN-CAG, especially when you are taking your source from the Echo which is notoriously inaccurate. Apart from a six week suspension of flights from mid-January SEN-CAG is bookable on the Air Malta website at 2 x weekly as it was in 2018. SEN-MLA is bookable at 3 x weekly direct and 2 x weekly via CAG. It's just SEN-CTA that appears not to be operating in 2019. It had been rather surprising to me that SEN-CAG continued after the end of the 2018 summer season at all as I thought it likely to be a summer-only route.

[AirportPlanner1]

This all seems a bit odd to me. What is actually confirmed to be on sale and operating?

Its only a couple of weeks ago that I posted about Cagliari not returning and it definitely wasn’t on sale for summer 2019 at that point. Malta non-stop 3x weekly and Catania 2x weekly were on sale.

Cagliari hasn’t operated since near enough the end of the summer season, it’s not just a Jan/Feb suspension. Perhaps the Echo have their destinations mixed up?

[SWBKCB]

I don't quite see why you're questioning the future of SEN-CAG, especially when you are taking your source from the Echo which is notoriously inaccurate. .

The Echo article states:

Air Malta have been cancelling flights from Southend to Cagliari and Catania, in Italy, because not enough people have been booking them.

andAn Air Malta spokesman said: “Air Malta offers services twice daily from Malta to London Heathrow and daily from Malta to Gatwick. The Malta - London Southend routes remain unchanged. Air Malta has affected some seasonal capacity trimmings on the Cataina/Cagliari to London Southend routes, diverting them to London Gatwick."Is this incorrect?

[AirportPlanner1]

The Echo article states:



andIs this incorrect?

It wouldn’t surprise me actually if it is incorrect. I get press calls fairly regularly, even when put in writing to them they are still somehow incapable of even getting copy and paste right.

[Expressflight]

Cagliari hasn’t operated since near enough the end of the summer season, it’s not just a Jan/Feb suspension. Perhaps the Echo have their destinations mixed up?The number of CAG rotations operated in recent months was : August 9, September 9, October 9 and November 6 but I don't have the December numbers yet, if any. As you say it's a couple of weeks since you posted that SEN-CAG would not return in 2019 and that MLA would be 3 x weekly and CTA 2 x weekly (then onwards to MLA) and that is the current situation. The Echo have tried, successfully, to give the impression that major reductions are being made now for 2019 and that is not the case. As far as "diverting them to LGW" is concerned in the Echo story, the LGW-MLA operates via CAG on Sunday and Wednesday, until 24th March only, with direct MLA flights on the other days of the week. After 24th March LGW-CAG seems to be dropped with LGW-MLA direct operating daily. I don't know if that's a recent change but maybe Air Malta have decided that LGW-CAG-MLA is more commercially viable than SEN-CAG-MLA twice weekly for the rest of this winter. Whatever the reason it hardly warrants the Echo's headline.

[AirportPlanner1]

I thought Cagliari may be a harder sell from the beginning. It isn’t so popular (though very nice) and was up against both Ryanair and EasyJet at STN. Catania is a more recognised destination serving a popular package resort (Taormina) and unserved from STN.

[compton3bravo]

Sad news today no more Stobart/Flybe Budapest, Manchester, Prague and Caen taking a six week break. Plus Paderborn suspended until the end of March, will it return I doubt it and the already forementioned reductions by Air Malta; but wait the cavalry will soon be coming over the hill in the shape of the harp and paying practically nothing or nothing at all for the privilege!

[tophat27dt]

Sad news today no more Stobart/Flybe Budapest, Manchester, Prague and Caen taking a six week break. Plus Paderborn suspended until the end of March, will it return I doubt it and the already forementioned reductions by Air Malta; but wait the cavalry will soon be coming over the hill in the shape of the harp and paying practically nothing or nothing at all for the privilege!
The airport owners are happy with the income from passenger spending at the airport.

[shamrock7seal]

So is there any confirmation of the Lauda rumour with regard to Ryanair?

[tophat27dt]

So is there any confirmation of the Lauda rumour with regard to Ryanair?
So far... apparently not.

[Sharklet_321]

I'm sure they have every intention of operating DUB but doubt very much any of the other routes will stick around or indeed the base.

[tophat27dt]

I'm sure they have every intention of operating DUB but doubt very much any of the other routes will stick around or indeed the base.
You don't think RYR will stick it out at SEN ? Blimey. Talk about pessimistic and lack of Goodwill. It's sad that the aviation industry has become like this.

[DC3 Dave]

FR are sure going to a lot of trouble just to say nah...... let's both bother with all this shinanigans, we' ll fly to SEN with a DUB based aircraft and skim the cream.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if a route or two didn't last and the extra capacity used on the DUB route. But so what?

If Ryanair are as pessimistic as Sharklet_321, I really don't think they'll come.

[AirportPlanner1]

I’d be more sceptical of their medium term intentions if there was a lot of overlap with STN. As it is, a fair few routes are unique to London. This seems to be LTN mk II, a base that has also stuck around for many years when it could easily have been subsumed into STN.

[EI-BUD]

Here is something to consider, Ryanair were taking deliver in 2017 of its first example of a 738 with short field performance, EI-FZX. I'd suggest these will be the vehicle of choice at SEN. Couldn't find details of how many examples in the fleet, but I heard 5 at DUB. I'd also suggest with capacity drying up in London, SEN will be big for Ryanair. A Dublin based 737 most unlikely to do SEN as there are no early morning take off slots available, certainly not pre 8am, so would be highly inefficient use of a frame .. details from internet on EI-FZX...

The 737 design enhancements allow operators to fly increased payload in and out of airports with runways less than 5,000 feet long.

The design enhancements include a two-position tail skid that enables reduced approach speeds, sealed leading-edge slats that provide increased lift during takeoff, and increased flight spoiler deflection on the ground that improves takeoff and landing performance.

The short-field performance changes were developed in 2004 in response to Brazilian airline GOL's needs at Santos Dumont airstrip in Rio de Janeiro. The 4,300-foot runway is short compared to other runways and could not accommodate larger aircraft at higher approach speeds with full payloads."

for those interested;
Short Runway Package Technical Aspects:

A winglet lift credit, achieved through additional winglet testing, that allows the use of lower landing-approach speeds


Takeoff performance improvements such as using sealed leading-edge slats on all takeoff flap positions, which allows the airplane to climb up and away more rapidly on shorter runways.


A reduced idle thrust transition delay between approach- and ground-idle speeds, which improves stopping distances and increases field-length-limited landing weight.


Increased flight-spoiler deflection from 30 degrees to 60 degrees, which aids brake performance when landing.


A two-position tailskid at the rear of the aircraft. The tailskid protects longerbodied 737-800s against inadvertent tailstrikes during landing, which allows higher aircraft approach attitudes and lower landing speeds.

EI-BUD

[tws123]

Interesting to hear Glyn Jones talk about the runway improvements allowing A321 operations.

[tophat27dt]

Interesting to hear Glyn Jones talk about the runway improvements allowing A321 operations.
But can the A321 operate full a full load from SEN ? Improving the runway surface is one thing, but it doesn't increase the distances.

[TCAS FAN]

But can the A321 operate full a full load from SEN ? Improving the runway surface is one thing, but it doesn't increase the distances.

IMHO no way will an A321 be able to operate with a full load to any economic destination, eg PMI, IBZ, ALC or further afield. The runway surface improvements appear to only relate to grooving in order to faciltate draining thereby increasing the chances of it being reported damp/damp/damp or dry/dry/dry. If its reported as wet/wet/wet or worse, perfomance limiting crtieria will still apply.

[Expressflight]

Is SEN just getting standard grooving or will the runway be certified 'WSR'. Only a damp standard grooved runway can be considered dry for purposes of calculations. But WSR is a different beast and is prob required to keep the show on the road when the rain comes.
RYR quite happily operate in and out of Dortmund which has a LDA of 1700m, prob the shortest LDA in the existing network. But it has certification for WSR which makes a big difference.
The shortest I've operated quite a bit in to is in the region of 1800m and yes when wet and full pax its quite limiting in how much extra fuel one can have so 1600 is gonna be fun, especially combined with narrow runway ops!

The resurfacing of SEN's runway, which starts this week, does seem to include having a skid-resistant surface layer in addition to grooving. the Possehl Antiskid website describes the process but I cannot find anything regarding the "certification" of such a runway or if any tangible commercial benefits accrue. Can you supply any information on that either by posting here or perhaps sending me a PM?

TCAS FAN
Maybe having a skid-resistant surface to supplement the grooving will improve the potential for A321 operations, although I do find GJ's statement surprising even so.

[rog747]

A321 will not see the light of day for Ops from SEN or SOU -

The 738 SFP does allow for an increased payload but NOT ''a full payload'' - so it will be interesting to see how long FR hangs around SEN when they have to divert or take £££crippling payload reductions

[tophat27dt]

A321 will not see the light of day for Ops from SEN or SOU -

The 738 SFP does allow for an increased payload but NOT ''a full payload'' - so it will be interesting to see how long FR hangs around SEN when they have to divert or take £££crippling payload reductions
So it's all looking so negative for the SEN operations. I assume heads will roll if it all goes tits up.

[rog747]

No not all negative at SEN - the A320 and the Neo's are doing well by all accounts - it's just the 737-800 and MAX and A321 are not the right fit for SEN until you add another 1000' ft or more of tarmac...

[Planespeaking]

No not all negative at SEN - the A320 and the Neo's are doing well by all accounts - it's just the 737-800 and MAX and A321 are not the right fit for SEN until you add another 1000' ft or more of tarmac...
Well that can't happen, there isn't the land to do it, and even if there was the runway would have to be widened to comply with CAA regulations to take it into a different category.
However surely FR will have number crunched the 738sfp performance figures before announcing SEN as a base. After all the 737-800sfp has operated successfully for GOL out of Santos Dumont from a 4300 length of tarmac for many years.

[tophat27dt]

Well that can't happen, there isn't the land to do it, and even if there was the runway would have to be widened to comply with CAA regulations to take it into a different category.
However surely FR will have number crunched the 738sfp performance figures before announcing SEN as a base. After all the 737-800sfp has operated successfully for GOL out of Santos Dumont from a 4300 length of tarmac for many years.
I agree. The guys RYR send in to research a new airport of operation do indeed go into it in minute detail. They certainly did here at Luxembourg and we have a 4000m runway. One thing they didn't realise at SEN apparently was the existence of the firing ranges to the east, although I don't see if that's a big problem. They will have to fly the same routes in and out as all the other operators.

[Expressflight]

The 738 SFP does allow for an increased payload but NOT ''a full payload'' - so it will be interesting to see how long FR hangs around SEN when they have to divert or take £££crippling payload reductions

Do I interpret your words as meaning that the 738 SFP will not be able to carry 189 pax off SEN's runway on the planned RYR network? If so I think you had better back that up with some figures to prove it. Personally I never think it wise to make such statements on PPRuNe unless you can back them up. Obviously we're not talking about departures from SEN at MTOW so what do your 'calculations' show as being the limiting RTOW at SEN in, say, ISA conditions?

[rog747]

Well that can't happen, there isn't the land to do it, and even if there was the runway would have to be widened to comply with CAA regulations to take it into a different category.
However surely FR will have number crunched the 738sfp performance figures before announcing SEN as a base. After all the 737-800sfp has operated successfully for GOL out of Santos Dumont from a 4300 length of tarmac for many years.

GOL do not operate with 189 seats - more like 170 and not for mission lengths such as SEN-ACE or CFU - Ryanair have 189 seats on their fleet - FR will not take the hit on payload limits for long imho
The 738/SFP allows one to take increased loads but NOT always necessarily MAX loads or accept high landing weights

[SARF]

If the firing range at foulness is an issue for SEN ops then they had better be keeping their heads down in Kent

[Expressflight]

GOL do not operate with 189 seats - more like 170 and not for mission lengths such as SEN-ACE or CFU - Ryanair have 189 seats on their fleet - FR will not take the hit on payload limits for long imho
The 738/SFP allows one to take increased loads but NOT always necessarily MAX loads or accept high landing weights
So you don't know then.

[rog747]

Do I interpret your words as meaning that the 738 SFP will not be able to carry 189 pax off SEN's runway on the planned RYR network? If so I think you had better back that up with some figures to prove it. Personally I never think it wise to make such statements on PPRuNe unless you can back them up. Obviously we're not talking about departures from SEN at MTOW so what do your 'calculations' show as being the limiting RTOW at SEN in, say, ISA conditions?

perhaps you may let me add old chap, thank you
A good friend is a skipper at D8/DI and flies both the 738 and MAX from LGW (I have mentioned this before on earlier posts if anyone has followed me)
He has crunched numbers for SOU and some SEN ops purely out of Interest (and for GIB too) and the payload limitations even for shorter flights simply are simply not economical - the hit of unsaleable seats out of the 189 maximum on some routes was crippling

I do see Glyn Jones SEN CEO upbeat on camera a few days ago saying he was wanting to woo airlines with 737-800 and A321 to come to SEN WHEN the runway is suitable.
Hmmn - that is commercial speak - same as the SOU MD speaking at their master plan unveiling saying the same.
Both SEN and SOU runways will never be suitable for such operations until a lot of work and money is spent.
Even then depending on an airlines own FOM and SOP they may still think that the airfields are simply too restrictive for A321 or 7378/MAX types.

[tophat27dt]

perhaps you may let me add old chap, thank you
A good friend is a skipper at D8/DI and flies both the 738 and MAX from LGW (I have mentioned this before on earlier posts if anyone has followed me)
He has crunched numbers for SOU and some SEN ops purely out of Interest (and for GIB too) and the payload limitations even for shorter flights simply are simply not economical - the hit of unsaleable seats out of the 189 maximum on some routes was crippling

I do see Glyn Jones SEN CEO upbeat on camera a few days ago saying he was wanting to woo airlines with 737-800 and A321 to come to SEN WHEN the runway is suitable.
Hmmn - that is commercial speak - same as the SOU MD speaking at their master plan unveiling saying the same.
Both SEN and SOU runways will never be suitable for such operations until a lot of work and money is spent.
Even then depending on an airlines own FOM and SOP they may still think that the airfields are simply too restrictive for A321 or 7378/MAX types.
All these opinions are certainly headspinning. I'm off to the pharmacy now for something stronger!

[Planespeaking]

perhaps you may let me add old chap, thank you
A good friend is a skipper at D8/DI and flies both the 738 and MAX from LGW (I have mentioned this before on earlier posts if anyone has followed me)
He has crunched numbers for SOU and some SEN ops purely out of Interest (and for GIB too) and the payload limitations even for shorter flights simply are simply not economical - the hit of unsaleable seats out of the 189 maximum on some routes was crippling
.
So why if the performance out of SEN is as dire as you and your friend say has FR publicly committed themselves to opening a 738 base? Something doesn't compute between you and the FR number crunchers.

[tophat27dt]

As a matter of interest in all this, take the SEN to Corfu flights. How many seats can be sold then?

[Expressflight]

......... the payload limitations even for shorter flights simply are simply not economical - the hit of unsaleable seats out of the 189 maximum on some routes was crippling
With the above having been the result of your friend's number crunching for SEN it is surely surprising that RYR have gone to all the trouble of putting on sale flights to 14 destinations from SEN and then suddenly discovered that such flights will be "simply not economical". If you are correct it will certainly turn out to be quite an "I told you" moment for you.
By the way, the runway length of Santos Dumont is 1,465m so comparing the GOL operation to that of RYR at SEN is somewhat tenuous.

[rog747]

I did not bring up the GOL comparison - I merely replied with some info that GOL and FR 738's and its operations are not vis a vis

We shall all await with much interest the FR operations out of SEN to come

[rog747]

As a matter of interest in all this, take the SEN to Corfu flights. How many seats can be sold then?

Haven't got CFU sorry,
But as an example -
On EZY A320 SEN to Canaries ACE TFS (180 or 186 seats) EZY do not sell 5-15 seats and accepts that as a 'hit' and the sector is still economical to market.
The figures for a 737-800 doing this mission were taking a hit approaching nearer 40 pax (out of SOU but a near example to SEN)
LGW-GIB was almost 60 pax. (we do not see the 738 used at GIB)

Flybe from SOU to JSI Skiathos, a charter for a holiday company (c200nm sector length more than CFU) using a 118 seater EMB 195 were restricted to selling only 97 seats (in both directions) flying non-stop both ways.
If a full load was to be taken then a fuel stop both at BRU out and Volos or SKG home would be needed, so a huge hit economically to take but operationally the full flight was totally restricted due meaning a 4 sector day for crewing, would prove near impossible for FTL hours (together with SOU closing before 2300 hours and some delayed flights had to divert into BOH because the flight was a late afternoon slot)

[rog747]

If anyone is looking for a job at SEN JOTA aviation have both an Ops controller and an Ops assistant jobs going

Nice little outfit - If I wasn't retired I might have liked that and be lured out lol

(ACMI airline BAE 146's/RJ's pax and cargo) Think small Titan!

[SWBKCB]

I'll put my money on RYR knowing what they are doing :ok:

[tophat27dt]

I'll put my money on RYR knowing what they are doing :ok:
Me too! They are not fools.

[DC3 Dave]

rog747. You seem to have knowledge and contacts. You appear to be a serious man and should be treated as such. But what you say regarding FR and SEN makes no sense.

No one from the Stobarti family has put a gun against MOL's head and said, "Either your signature or your brains will be on this contract." (The other way round would be more credible).

So if, for argument's sake, an FR 738SFP could only take 100 pax to Corfu, then rest assured there will only be one loser and it won't be the airline. That said, I hope both parties have concluded that the agreement will satisfy their respective requirements, providing that demand for the routes reaches expectations.

I trust your argument will now rest with the fishes.

[AirportPlanner1]

I'll put my money on RYR knowing what they are doing :ok:

Generally yes but I’m sceptical as to them having more luck with the early run to DUB and late arrival back than EZY did with BFS & EDI without the train being available. I can’t see enough Essex folk using it to make it worthwhile.

Its fair to say there were a few times where my early flight to MAN had more pax than the Embraer to DUB.

[LTNman]

I would have thought Ryanair not selling 40 seats for example is still economical if the fare structure is correct. Just means less £10 seats on sale.

[22/04]

RYR will have done their sums- they operate quite a lot of sectors where the route is performance limited, blocking off seats. What conditions are talking about Rog 747 - a hot humid windless day? They have lots of airports in Europe where they have good deals on landing and handling and live and breathe short turnarounds ( penalties for handling agents if they fail) so can probably land and top up fuel in 20 minutes. They will as has been said if need be not offer the lowest fares- maybe they figure the silvers of South East Essex will still find slightly higher fares effective. And if it doesn't work they will give up the sector and either deploy the aircraft elsewhere from SEN or base it elsewhere- they are masters of churn with often little to lose ( deals with airports so good).

Anyway I thought that the major issue has been landing performance.

[Expressflight]

If the SOPs for a 'dry runway' can be applied, that includes a damp skid-resistant grooved runway, then there should be no landing weight problems. If the runway is declared WET or contaminated that would be very limiting in terms of landing weights. Obviously the work now being undertaken on resurfacing the runway is designed prevent that happening except rarely and temporarily.

[EGPO]

Out of interest, given the limits on the Runway at Southend , how many aicraft have, Ryanair based there .
I can't imagine they have a huge amount of 738's SFP capabilities.
I take it also from the above post that they are limited on weight even with that technology.
I thought years ago they had said they might look toward foreign built , Sub130 Seat aircraft .
Naturally the Sukhoi - used by Cityjet Eire
Or the VSeries now A220-100/300 Both able to be at max weight and land with only 1400 odd metres of Runway so I read .

Perhaps if Boeing and Airbus saw the advantage in having in their range an aircraft able to carry upto 130 pax on a short Runway .( C-Series , by Airbus )
And the exellent Embraer E Jets , especially the new E2 etc ( better engines , braking and electronics ).
So if the manufacturers see this , why can't the likes of Ryanair.
It would open up more routes to smaller airports , that would have the demand , but are limited by runway .
Eg they if had say the A220 could operate from LCY.

[Barling Magna]

Three B738s will be based at SEN by Ryanair.

[asdf1234]

I think it is very likely that the financial incentive offered by the airport to RYR to attract them to Southend will go a long way to mitigating any reduced loads .This allows the operator to test fares and loads within the medium term to assess the the long-term viability of the base. I can't remember the actual numbers but the airport quoted a figure in the 10's of millions for new route development in either the annual report or in one of the half-yearly updates .

[runwayman]

All this speculation why don't we just wait & see what happens when the RYR operation starts ! & then be proved correct or incorrect

[tophat27dt]

All this speculation why don't we just wait & see what happens when the RYR operation starts ! & then be proved correct or incorrect
Yes please!

[Buster the Bear]

No wonder there was warfare in the Stobart Boardroom, if the financial incentives to be paid to a new airline were massive!

[LTNman]

A few years ago I flew Ryanair’s Blackpool Stansted service. Several front rows of seats were taped off like a crime scene despite the short hop and Blackpool’s 6000ft runway.

[tophat27dt]

A few years ago I flew Ryanair’s Blackpool Stansted service. Several front rows of seats were taped off like a crime scene despite the short hop and Blackpool’s 6000ft runway.
Weight and balance?

[pamann]

A few years ago I flew Ryanair’s Blackpool Stansted service. Several front rows of seats were taped off like a crime scene despite the short hop and Blackpool’s 6000ft runway.

Back in the days when Ryanair operated to BLK they also operated a free seating policy (get on and sit where you like). As is mentioned above it was due to weight and balance. If a flight wasn’t due to be full there were specific rows that would be taped off so as they wouldn’t be occupied. These restrictions applied to any flight, not specific to BLK.

I believe hold luggage was front hold loaded hence why front rows were taped off if loads were below full. Nothing to do with payload restrictions.

[tophat27dt]

Back in the days when Ryanair operated to BLK they also operated a free seating policy (get on and sit where you like). As is mentioned above it was due to weight and balance. If a flight wasn’t due to be full there were specific rows that would be taped off so as they wouldn’t be occupied. These restrictions applied to any flight, not specific to BLK.

I believe hold luggage was front hold loaded hence why front rows were taped off if loads were below full. Nothing to do with payload restrictions.
Absolutely correct sir!

[LTNman]

In these days of pre allocated seats the police tape has gone but I wonder how many of these seats still get occupied. I for one have changed seats once the doors have been closed.

[mik3bravo]

In these days of pre allocated seats the police tape has gone but I wonder how many of these seats still get occupied. I for one have changed seats once the doors have been closed.

Those front rows are generally all booked by pax who feel paying the premium seat choice additional cost is worth the expense if it means expedited disembark is a focus for those pax. Particularly handy if traveling with no checked luggage or cabin bags, just passport and boarding pass on the app. I've only seen maybe 2 or 3 front row seats unoccupied on FR flights, they generally have a strong appeal to some pax, so clearly the surcharge isn't a barrier to filling these seats.

[DC3 Dave]

This could mean growth at SEN???

https://news.sky.com/story/virgin-and-stobart-take-off-with-flybe-in-cut-price-deal-11604069

[SWBKCB]

or it could mean a lack of focus as attention is diverted to turning BE round?

[AirportPlanner1]

I can’t see anything for SEN - though in the event Ryanair do a runner it might expedite a basing of additional aircraft and the return of Belfast and Edinburgh (which we assume were prohibited) with more suitable aircraft.