Southend-2

[LTNman]

I wonder how much each passengers is being subsidised by the taxpayer?

[Planespeaking]

I wonder how much each passengers is being subsidised by the taxpayer?
It's hardly going to be hundreds and thousands of pax so I don't suppose HMRC and the great British public will feel the burden! It might just work and it's called enterprise. After all if it hadn't been for enterprise LTN would be a housing estate by now.

[LTNman]

The lower the passenger count the higher the per passenger subsidy. I can understand subsidies for island communities but someone is having a laugh when there is a twice hourly train service to London.

Say 50 minutes train travel from London to Southend, check-in 2 hours before departure and a 1 hour 25 minute flight. Total 4 hours 15 minutes while Virgin trains offers 2 trains an hour in as little as 3 hours 16 minutes.

Nice one.

[AirportPlanner1]

Say 50 minutes train travel from London to Southend, check-in 2 hours before departure and a 1 hour 25 minute flight. Total 4 hours 15 minutes while Virgin trains offers 2 trains an hour in as little as 3 hours 16 minutes.

Nice one.

What is the travel time from Brentwood, Chelmsford, Southend or Upminster to Carlisle or wider Lake District area by road or rail? At 4x weekly off peak it is surely these passengers the service is hoping to attract.

Even if they ran a twice daily business schedule, the overall travel time looks quite competitive depending where in London you’re actually heading and where in Cumbria you started. 2 hour check-in is quite generous especially at the Carlisle end where 45 mins should be more than enough.

[Planespeaking]

The lower the passenger count the higher the per passenger subsidy. I can understand subsidies for island communities but someone is having a laugh when there is a twice hourly train service to London.

Say 50 minutes train travel from London to Southend, check-in 2 hours before departure and a 1 hour 25 minute flight. Total 4 hours 15 minutes while Virgin trains offers 2 trains an hour in as little as 3 hours 16 minutes.

Nice one.
It's a worry I feel another sleepless night coming on!!

[LTNman]

So the subsidy is not for Carlisle - London passengers but people living in Brentwood, Chelmsford, Southend and Upminster. Sorry I misunderstood. As for business passengers sheep farmers would be reluctant to leave Shep the dog to look after the farm. This has nothing to do with Southend but the principle of subsidising air routes for the benefit of Stobart.

[Planespeaking]

So the subsidy is not for Carlisle - London passengers but people living in Brentwood, Chelmsford, Southend and Upminster. Sorry I misunderstood. As for business passengers sheep farmers would be reluctant to leave Shep the dog to look after the farm. This has nothing to do with Southend but the principle of subsidising air routes for the benefit of Stobart.
Sorry can you run that by some of us who have lives and haven't got the time to decipher cryptic comments.

[AirportPlanner1]

So the subsidy is not for Carlisle - London passengers but people living in Brentwood, Chelmsford, Southend and Upminster. Sorry I misunderstood. As for business passengers sheep farmers would be reluctant to leave Shep the dog to look after the farm. This has nothing to do with Southend but the principle of subsidising air routes for the benefit of Stobart.

All the evidence I’ve seen points to inbound tourism being the economic benefit derived from these flights. Look at the Loganair story linked above, does it mention Cumbrian sheep farmers investing in the city or does it talk about the Lake District and how many people visit? Yes I’m sure it is win-win for Stobart but it’s disingenuous to suggest its being subsidised for business pax to central London against the train.

[SARF]

Think of it as HS3 but cheaper

[Jamesair]

I'm sure the main commercial point to the service will be to attract inbound traffic to the Lake District but only time will tell whether it will be successful.

[rocker6346]

What is the travel time from Brentwood, Chelmsford, Southend or Upminster to Carlisle or wider Lake District area by road or rail? At 4x weekly off peak it is surely these passengers the service is hoping to attract.

Even if they ran a twice daily business schedule, the overall travel time looks quite competitive depending where in London you’re actually heading and where in Cumbria you started. 2 hour check-in is quite generous especially at the Carlisle end where 45 mins should be more than enough.
That last bit amazes me actually.
So I work at a quite (and quiet) regional airport in Belgium (ANR) and our flights' checkin closes 15 minutes before departure (30 minutes for Flybe, though). Now I won't say that I'm super happy with that as an airport employee, but I do see how it is a level of service that you can provide to your customers, as an airline. And seeing how little this policy causes any trouble at our (small) airport, I can't figure out why there are so little small airports giving this level of service to both of their customers - the passengers AND the airlines.

[rog747]

What on earth has the BY 757 crash at GRO got to do with SEN?

The 757 was attempting to land at night in one of the regions worst TS that summer, a wind change caused a miss APP so they then used the other end, where a simultaneous power failure took out the runway lights just before TD.
The approach and final became unstable and the 757 landed hard, bounced causing structural damage which caused multiple failures - one of which was an uncommanded increase in thrust.
The 757 then completely out of control left the runway.....


Please explain why SEN's runway has any credence to this accident ..........?

[rog747]

That last bit amazes me actually.
So I work at a quite (and quiet) regional airport in Belgium (ANR) and our flights' checkin closes 15 minutes before departure (30 minutes for Flybe, though). Now I won't say that I'm super happy with that as an airport employee, but I do see how it is a level of service that you can provide to your customers, as an airline. And seeing how little this policy causes any trouble at our (small) airport, I can't figure out why there are so little small airports giving this level of service to both of their customers - the passengers AND the airlines.

totally agree there - 30 min cut off or less, should be fine for small local airports if the airport and ground staff have their act together - But ANR doesn't handle 4 or 5 x A320's and 3 x 738's all leaving at the same time which is the case of SEN for instance...SEN is now a victim of its own success

Works OK at SOU/NQY but again no big jets there....

[rocker6346]

totally agree there - 30 min cut off or less, should be fine for small local airports if the airport and ground staff have their act together - But ANR doesn't handle 4 or 5 x A320's and 3 x 738's all leaving at the same time which is the case of SEN for instance...SEN is now a victim of its own success

Works OK at SOU/NQY but again no big jets there....
Very true. Sorry, I was commenting rather off topic about the Carlisle airport. I've never been there, but it sounds like a 15-minute-before-departure-airport.

[rog747]

Very true. Sorry, I was commenting rather off topic about the Carlisle airport. I've never been there, but it sounds like a 15-minute-before-departure-airport.

LOL no worries, and yes Carlisle has about 2 airliner movements a week currently so a -10 check in will be fine lol

Back on topic SEN hopefully will get their act together to enable the enormous increase in traffic to be handled efficiently and fast.

[AirportPlanner1]

Min check-in of 15-30 mins can be done almost anywhere with limit dependent on terminal size. SEN do not set a limit, the airlines do. Nothing to stop Loganair for example coming along and offering 20 min check-in.

It comes down to the airlines. On the one hand it’s clarity and simplicity, you want a clear message rather than array of times for different airports. On the other hand it’s a cynical bit of cash generation, close earlier than you need and you’re more likely to get extra cash from pax for rebooking. Ryanair is a clear example of a company with standard times whether it’s only flight of the day from Castellon or one of hundreds at Gatwick.

[Flightrider]

I can't think anyone has check-in closure times which are deliberately onerous as a revenue-generating measure from people who then miss flights as a result. Airline check-in times tend to be a function of wanting customers at the gate by at least STD-20 to commence boarding for doors closed at -5 and an on-time push. It also takes time for bags to be security screened, reconciled and loaded and then to get the loadsheet, weight & balance and consequent aircraft performance wrapped up before push. Check-in closures have everything to do with OTP and very little to do with revenue.

[rog747]

At BMA LHR we had -10 at the gate for HBO pax for domestic flights (-20 at check-in if you had bags to check) - We handled ourselves and were switched on.

[Expressflight]

Min check-in of 15-30 mins can be done almost anywhere with limit dependent on terminal size. SEN do not set a limit, the airlines do. Nothing to stop Loganair for example coming along and offering 20 min check-in.
I don't follow your logic there I'm afraid. How could Loganair responsibly tell pax they can check-in up to 20 minutes before flight departure when at the top of SEN's website home page is a notice declaring "Please ensure that you arrive at least 2 hours before your scheduled time of departure." SEN most definitely 'set a limit' for arrival time at the airport and that doesn't mean pax can amble around landside for 100 minutes before checking in. I had hoped that the 2 hour requirement might be temporary while they sorted out their Security screening shortcomings following the arrival of RYR; it seems not. As it is they've shot themselves in the foot through ineptitude and thrown away one of the main passenger benefits they previously boasted about.

At least they don't say, as the STN website does, that you should allow 2 hours to get through Security after having checked in.

[AirportPlanner1]

I don't follow your logic there I'm afraid. How could Loganair responsibly tell pax they can check-in up to 20 minutes before flight departure when at the top of SEN's website home page is a notice declaring "Please ensure that you arrive at least 2 hours before your scheduled time of departure." SEN most definitely 'set a limit' for arrival time at the airport and that doesn't mean pax can amble around landside for 100 minutes before checking in. I had hoped that the 2 hour requirement might be temporary while they sorted out their Security screening shortcomings following the arrival of RYR; it seems not. As it is they've shot themselves in the foot through ineptitude and thrown away one of the main passenger benefits they previously boasted about.

At least they don't say, as the STN website does, that you should allow 2 hours to get through Security after having checked in.

I think with respect you are taking guidance as a requirement. I think all airlines/airports everywhere advise you to arrive 2 hours before, but clearly if you are at Antwerp or Poitiers or Kerry or any number of airports across Europe that would be barmy unless you enjoy spending lots of time in a small room with just a vending machine for activity. By your logic all airlines at SEN should close their check-ins substantially earlier than the 45 mins (Air Malta), 40 mins (Ryanair) and 30 mins (Flybe) currently in place. Of course I caveat that with responsibility for getting to the gate on time resting with the passenger. The airport definitely don’t set a limit, and of course they want you there as early as possible to spend money so would never advocate you push the limits of arrival.

In any case, short check-ins tends to benefit and be used by higher-yielding business travellers and is therefore a selling point.

[fjencl]

Does Air Antwerp have a web site yet.

[Expressflight]

By your logic all airlines at SEN should close their check-ins substantially earlier than the 45 mins (Air Malta), 40 mins (Ryanair) and 30 mins (Flybe) currently in place.
It's Loganair that have a check-in desk closure of 30 minutes prior to departure at SEN. Flybe show the check-in and gate closure times for all their airports and these vary considerably and not necessarily in line with size of the airport. SEN is actually 45 minutes for check-in (the highest of any LON airport) and 10 minutes for the gate closure. How does my 'logic' suggest that they should close earlier than that? Most airlines tend to simply tell you to ensure you arrive in plenty of time, bearing in mind their desk/gate closure times, whereas the airports are more specific about the total time you should allow. In my book if an airport website, on its home page, says 'Please ensure that you arrive at least 2 hours before your scheduled time of departure" that is rather more than just offering guidance.

Your point in respect of all airports wanting you to spend time within the airport is, of course, correct but seeing as the spend at SEN will be almost all airside surely Stobart would be incentivised to process pax through Security as speedily as possible.

[LTNman]

Min check-in of 15-30 mins can be done almost anywhere with limit dependent on terminal size. SEN do not set a limit, the airlines do. Nothing to stop Loganair for example coming along and offering 20 min check-in.

The airport recommends passengers arrive 2 hours before departure and Stobart runs the check-in desks and the baggage handling so the airlines have no say

.When to arrive at the airport? Our advice is to arrive at least two hours before your scheduled time of departure

Maybe longer today as the airport has a problem.
We are experiencing some technical issues at check-in. If you have bags to check please arrive early to avoid delays.

So if someone missed their flight by arriving 30 minutes before departure who do you think the airline and airport would blame?

[BA318]

The airport recommends passengers arrive 2 hours before departure and Stobart runs the check-in desks and the baggage handling so the airlines have no say

.

Maybe longer today as the airport has a problem.


So if someone missed their flight by arriving 30 minutes before departure who do you think the airline and airport would blame?

There is a difference between recommends and requires. Most airports recommend 2 hours beforehand but nobody is going to stop you checking in 1 hour beforehand if the airline allows it. I fly SAS every week and arrive under 2 hours beforehand.

Some airports or airlines like BA at LHR don't allow you to pass through security if there is less than 45 minutes until your flight. BA at LCY says check in closes 20 minutes before departure where as LOT says 45 minutes and Swiss closes 30 minutes beforehand for Economy and 20 for Business.

[DC3 Dave]

Looks like temperatures at SEN will hit 30c next Tuesday and Wednesday. Heard on the grapevine that Easyjet will be telling the last 15 pax to arrive at the check in desk that they won't be flying on those days due to operational restrictions. Not sure which flights are affected by this but assume it will be the A320 flights. Can anyone confirm the schedule
for the A320s next Tuesday and Wednesday?

​​​​​​On Saturday it was as hot as it ever gets. Does anyone know if any pax were given the bad news? Or did any aircraft have to make a fuel stop?

[4567]

Do return fares fo liverpool street from southend airport get any cheaper? Seems to be a standard £53.40 return for 2x adults whether you like it or not. Not great when compared with stansted which can be as cheap as £36x2 adults when booked far enough in advance.
Weighing up using loganair again to southend vs easyjet or ba and atm its not adding up with such an expensive train fare.

[Double Hydco]

On Saturday it was as hot as it ever gets. Does anyone know if any pax were given the bad news? Or did any aircraft have to make a fuel stop?

No tech stops as far as I can see and the two departures to Southern Europe that departed after 1pm where almost full......

[DC3 Dave]

The cost of getting to the airport seems to be an issue. It has been mentioned before that it is cheaper to travel further to Southend Victoria than to get off two stops before. Just looked at travelling this afternoon from Liverpool Street and returning Thursday afternoon (both off-peak), cost is £18.60. To the airport on the same trains - £33.40. Absolute rip-off.

[Expressflight]

Do return fares fo liverpool street from southend airport get any cheaper? Seems to be a standard £53.40 return for 2x adults whether you like it or not. Not great when compared with stansted which can be as cheap as £36x2 adults when booked far enough in advance.
Weighing up using loganair again to southend vs easyjet or ba and atm its not adding up with such an expensive train fare.
Railcards make it considerably cheaper and reduce the return journey to around £22.00 per person. GA used to offer advance tickets on that line, with fares as low as £5.00 single I seem to recall, but they don't seem to be available at all now.

[lfc84]

Have a look at

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain (http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=LST&dest=SIA) - Liverpool St to the airport

If you want an advance ticket go to Southend Victoria first, then the airport

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain (http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=LST&dest=SOV) - Liverpool St to Southend Victoria

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain (http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=SOV&dest=SIA) - Southend Victoria to Airport

[DC3 Dave]

This May, pax numbers to destinations now served by both FR and EZY have soared compared to last year.

Alicante up 141%
Faro up 100%
Malaga up 87%
Palma Mallorca up 126%

Does anyone believe that EZY have failed to exploint the full potential of these routes? Or by keeping capacity below demand did they achieve full aircraft and high yield before the competition came along?

[aurigny72]

This May, pax numbers to destinations now served by both FR and EZY have soared compared to last year.

Alicante up 141%
Faro up 100%
Malaga up 87%
Palma Mallorca up 126%

Does anyone believe that EZY have failed to exploint the full potential of these routes? Or by keeping capacity below demand did they achieve full aircraft and high yield before the competition came along?
Yes i believe EZY have failed to exploit those routes and also over the last eight years of ops at SEN not increased the number of aircraft and routes to their full potential, its been only 3 or 4 aircraft based at various times. If they could have increased their SEN base by at least another two A319s/20s then maybe they would not have had Ryanair starting up a base here, but who knows?. Certainly the competition on those sun routes is good for the traveling public.

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2019/07/02/flybe-stobart-to-cancel-southend-antwerp/

[Pain in the R's]

Yes i believe EZY have failed to exploit those routes and also over the last eight years of ops at SEN not increased the number of aircraft and routes to their full potential, its been only 3 or 4 aircraft based at various times. If they could have increased their SEN base by at least another two A319s/20s then maybe they would not have had Ryanair starting up a base here, but who knows?. Certainly the competition on those sun routes is good for the traveling public.

Maybe Easyjet were aware of Southend's inability to handle more than a couple of aircraft at a time which has been proven by the arrival of Ryanair?

[Captain_Caveman]

No tech stops as far as I can see and the two departures to Southern Europe that departed after 1pm where almost full......

there were certainly offloads on sunday so I would presume Saturday too although I was not working to verify.

[Planespeaking]

Maybe Easyjet were aware of Southend's inability to handle more than a couple of aircraft at a time which has been proven by the arrival of Ryanair?
And your evidence for that please?

[Confirmed Must Ride]

Numbers maybe up but I bet the yield has gone just as far in the opposite direction. Great for the self loading freight but unsustainable for the operators in the end.

[asdf1234]

there were certainly offloads on sunday so I would presume Saturday too although I was not working to verify.

Sunday was considerably cooler than the Saturday. I wonder what the temperature cut-off point is before flights are load limited due to the runway/climb out limitations? Does anyone know?

[AirportPlanner1]

I don't follow your logic there I'm afraid. How could Loganair responsibly tell pax they can check-in up to 20 minutes before flight departure when at the top of SEN's website home page is a notice declaring "Please ensure that you arrive at least 2 hours before your scheduled time of departure.".

I turned up a couple of days ago to three people ahead of me at security. Which knocks on the head the idea you always need to turn up -2hrs before the flight

[SARF]

It would appear that Woodford has finally exited his Stobart position.. probably the only liquid stock his fund owned !!!!!

[Pain in the R's]

I turned up a couple of days ago to three people ahead of me at security. Which knocks on the head the idea you always need to turn up -2hrs before the flight

A pointless post as it would depend on what time you turned up Vs the number of flights departing around your departure time. Maybe you should contact the airport and tell them that their official advise is all wrong?

[davidjohnson6]

I used to reckon that it was ok to turn up at the airport out 35 mins before the flight was due to depart with my boarding card already printed off as it always seemed to be ok. Then one day the security queue was significantly longer than normal and it didn't turn out to be ok. Being required to turn up a full 2 hours in advance is just a bit of a**e covering on behalf of the airport, but maybe best not to cut things too fine...

[Planespeaking]

A pointless post as it would depend on what time you turned up Vs the number of flights departing around your departure time. Maybe you should contact the airport and tell them that their official advise is all wrong?
Your comments about SEN seem to be very bitter and angry, please tell us if you had an unfortunate experience there, or is it that you just don't want the airport to succeed?

[tophat27dt]

Your comments about SEN seem to be very bitter and angry, please tell us if you had an unfortunate experience there, or is it that you just don't want the airport to succeed?
Check out his user name and you will understand why he's always moaning!

[Pain in the R's]

Your comments about SEN seem to be very bitter and angry, please tell us if you had an unfortunate experience there, or is it that you just don't want the airport to succeed?


I think what you are saying is that I don't wear rose tinted glasses and come out with the bull sh!t. If Southend wants to keep its favourite airport status it needs to stay ahead of the curve. I can't help but feel awards were presented when passenger numbers were really low and were lapped up here as though Stobart was doing something special. Now with the airport at half capacity passengers are being reported as missing flights. No point pretending it isn't happening with your claims that only 3 people were in front of you in the security queue. This is something that the airport should be addressing.

[Expressflight]

Extensive coverage of the "opening" of CAX on nationwide BBC Breakfast this morning including footage of the departure of the first LM flight to DUB. It was mentioned that CAX-DUB is currently the best selling of the three routes on offer The inaugural CAX-SEN takes place later today.

[SEN Observer]

And here's the Echo's take on it. Not quite right as the Southend flights haven't launched yet (not until later today) but then it is the notoriously incorrect Echo!

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17748609.flights-southend-lake-district-launched-opening-new-airport/

[Barling Magna]

The inbound 340 from CAX seems to have got well soaked by the water arch on its inaugural landing at SEN......... A sign of good luck for the service, I hope.

[SARF]

Good stuff.. no matter how small some people may consider the route these traditions are great and should be maintained

[asdf1234]

Does anyone know why the Logonair from ABZ has been circling and not landing?

[Expressflight]

Does anyone know why the Logonair from ABZ has been circling and not landing?
AD closed temporarily due to a grass fire.

[asdf1234]

AD closed temporarily due to a grass fire.
The poor Aberdeen passengers have gone to Norwich.

[Expressflight]

Three more aircraft in the SEN hold at present.

[asdf1234]

The poor Aberdeen passengers have gone to Norwich.
The Carlisle SAAB is circling out over the North Sea...

[Expressflight]

SEN just re-opened to traffic. CAX flight on approach.

[asdf1234]

SEN reporting on their social media page that they are having intermittent problems with their luggage system at check in. As a result pax are advised to turn up at least 2 hours prior to departure.

[LTNman]

They were reporting that problem around 2 weeks ago. I guess it hasn't been fixed or the fault has returned. Also they recommend that people turn up 2 hours before departure even when the baggage system is working.

[tophat27dt]

They were reporting that problem around 2 weeks ago. I guess it hasn't been fixed or the fault has returned. Also they recommend that people turn up 2 hours before departure even when the baggage system is working.
they advise to arrive 2 hours before because of the security checks, at least during the morning rush.

[SEN Observer]

According to Routesonline the final Antwerp flight will be on August 30th with the final Caen on 6th January. No mention of any other Flybe changes from SEN but a long list of changes/dropped routes over the Flybe network.

[BAladdy]

BE’s flights to CFR are no longer available to book for travel after 6th January. Does anyone know of this is a seasonal adjustment or has the route been dropped?

Flights to NQY also dropped from the same date. Was this route not launched as operating year round?

[PDXCWL45]

BE’s flights to CFR and NQY are no longer available to book for travel after 6th January. Does anyone know of this is a seasonal adjustment or has the routes been dropped?
I'm sure I read that the Flybe franchise at SEN ends in March 2020 so those routes ending may be part of that.

[Falcon666]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49000796

This might be the acid test to see how well the SEN base is doing.
Doubt it will affect STN but LTN might be interesting as well.

[Expressflight]

BE’s flights to CFR are no longer available to book for travel after 6th January. Does anyone know of this is a seasonal adjustment or has the route been dropped?
Flights to NQY also dropped from the same date. Was this route not launched as operating year round?
Both CFR and NQY just take a mid-winter break in services. CFR recommences 10th February and NQY 14th March. As far as next summer is concerned all will be revealed in due course but I have no idea what is planned for SEN as far as Virgin Connect, or whatever it will be called, is concerned.

[asdf1234]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49000796

This might be the acid test to see how well the SEN base is doing.
Doubt it will affect STN but LTN might be interesting as well.

I'm pretty sure SEN is subsidising the start up years for the Irish mob and this will save the SEN base from inclusion in the shortlist for closures.

[DC3 Dave]

May 2019 shows international pax numbers 66% up on the same period last year. Domestic down 12%, but that's only around 1,500 and, as has been pointed out, Loganair did not commence services at the beginning of the month.

[DC3 Dave]

Interesting new Twitter feed. @SENAirTraffic

[PDXCWL45]

I'm pretty sure SEN is subsidising the start up years for the Irish mob and this will save the SEN base from inclusion in the shortlist for closures.
And I'm sure that there will be clauses in the contract that will give Ryanair a get out if the base isn't performing to their expectations or they need the aircraft elsewhere.

[Planespeaking]

And I'm sure that there will be clauses in the contract that will give Ryanair a get out if the base isn't performing to their expectations or they need the aircraft elsewhere.

Posted in another forum since the arrival of FR to SEN pax numbers have increased by nearly 60% in the second quarter. So the load factors appear to be healthy, however yield may be something else.

[AirportPlanner1]

Posted in another forum since the arrival of FR to SEN pax numbers have increased by nearly 60% in the second quarter. So the load factors appear to be healthy, however yield may be something else.

For the routes FR operate without competition CAA stats show loads are generally OK but some are better than others.

Bilbao is by far the worst at 90.9 average (48%). The mediocre ones are Dublin at 123.8 (65.5%), Brest at 125.5 (66.4%) and Copenhagen at 130.8 (69.2%). Everything else was between 77-85% full.

[Captain_Caveman]

For the routes FR operate without competition CAA stats show loads are generally OK but some are better than others.

Bilbao is by far the worst at 90.9 average (48%). The mediocre ones are Dublin at 123.8 (65.5%), Brest at 125.5 (66.4%) and Copenhagen at 130.8 (69.2%). Everything else was between 77-85% full.

for a comparison to the above stats... ryanair’s average load factor for June 2019 was 97% as reported in their monthly update

[Expressflight]

For the routes FR operate without competition CAA stats show loads are generally OK but some are better than others.Bilbao is by far the worst at 90.9 average (48%). The mediocre ones are Dublin at 123.8 (65.5%), Brest at 125.5 (66.4%) and Copenhagen at 130.8 (69.2%). Everything else was between 77-85% full.
Looking at the load factors for the first two months of RYR ops at SEN I calculate the numbers being:
Bilbao 71% (I don't quite understand your 48% figure), Dublin 65%, Brest 73% and Copenhagen 73%.
The figures for other routes with no EZY competition were Corfu 82%, Reus 84%, Venice 81%, Bergamo (Milan) 79%, Kosice 79% and Cluj 84%
The 97% load factor quoted by Captain Caveman for June 2019 is based upon seats sold and not the pax numbers actually boarding flights.

[PDXCWL45]

Posted in another forum since the arrival of FR to SEN pax numbers have increased by nearly 60% in the second quarter. So the load factors appear to be healthy, however yield may be something else.
Yes but that doesn't mean that they are making money or couldn't make more money elsewhere with 1 of the aircraft say. It's good that SEN has got busier but airlines can be fickle beasts and also this being the first year many of the routes will be experiments.

[AirportPlanner1]

Bilbao 71% (I don't quite understand your 48% figure

OK I realise now it’s 4x weekly not 5. However I make it 61% load factor

[LTNman]

I would imagine the first dozen or so seats sold are equal to the cost of the last seat sold. Also the red line between profit and loss will be at the upper end of the number of seats sold with Ryanair.

[DC3 Dave]

Yes but that doesn't mean that they are making money or couldn't make more money elsewhere with 1 of the aircraft say. It's good that SEN has got busier but airlines can be fickle beasts and also this being the first year many of the routes will be experiments.

To have any sense of how well or otherwise FR are doing you would have to compare the figures from other new UK bases in their first full month of operation.

[Planespeaking]

To have any sense of how well or otherwise FR are doing you would have to compare the figures from other new UK bases in their first full month of operation.
It's a worry, I feel another sleepless night coming up.

[PDXCWL45]

To have any sense of how well or otherwise FR are doing you would have to compare the figures from other new UK bases in their first full month of operation.
There are no other UK bases this year and I don't know when the last one was.

[DC3 Dave]

There are no other UK bases this year and I don't know when the last one was.

That's the point. We simply don't know how to judge the early numbers coming from SEN, other than to say that some of the routes are clearly showing more promise than others.

[LGS6753]

Load factors
Ryanair publish the number of seats sold. The airport counts the number of passengers carried. The former will always be greater than the latter.

[SWBKCB]

Ryanair publish the number of seats sold. The airport counts the number of passengers carried. The former will always be greater than the latter.

Does anybody have a feel for by how much? I would have thought not much, and the figures quoted above for the new SEN routes are significantly below the average system wide load factors regularly published by Ryanair

[AirportPlanner1]

Does anybody have a feel for by how much? I would have thought not much, and the figures quoted above for the new SEN routes are significantly below the average system wide load factors regularly published by Ryanair

Based on the few occasions I’ve been able to see the agent’s figures whilst boarding, its consistently been 10-15 people that haven’t checked in. So a fair few.

The figures broadly reflect my prediction of some time ago...I suggested the DUB route for example may struggle to fill the early outbound and late return based on previous experience of EZY with their BFS/EDI routes. That seems to be borne out here. Similarly CPH is low-ish overall and that too has late returns back into SEN. This happened with EZY when they moved the Berlin flight from daytime to late - factually loads fell and anecdotally the outbound was popular and the inbound less so. In fact the next few departures for CPH show sold out, but inbounds are available. I’m not sure why Bilbao is so low.

The anomaly is Cluj and Kosice which do well despite early departures, but another lesson from history shows EZY had very high loads with their early departure to Krakow. Routes that particularly cater to migrants don’t seem to depend on public transport access.

Hopefully new late trains will help alleviate these issues going forward.

[DC3 Dave]

The reasons behind this have been spoken about recently.


https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17776414.couple-asked-get-off-easy-jet-flight-heavy/

[LTNman]

Was it not stated here a few days ago that no one was kicked off any flight due to the hot weather even though it was predicted?

Also should the passengers kicked off the flight in question be told the whole storey about runway length issues. Clearly the person in question has no idea why the flight was overweight and is blaming the airline.

[davidjohnson6]

I suspect the courts would pin the responsibility for bumping pax on the airline. The flights were not cancelled (so clearly not a safety issue due to bad weather), the airline(s) knew the runway length and aircraft performance capability, and in summer one should expect it to be warm. I don't believe that summer 2019 in Southend has seen exceptionally high temperature for the time of year

[LTNman]

Actually on reflection it is the airlines fault.

Was it not stated here a few days ago that no one was kicked off any flight due to the hot weather even though it was predicted?

Clearly I have no idea what I am talking about as it was indeed confirmed a while back that folk were offloaded despite me claiming otherwise. Sorry

[AirportPlanner1]

Could also be an aircraft swap to blame, ie Neo to standard or A319. This has happened at other airports, if you search around Google there have been other “distraught” pax with “ruined holidays”

[Captain_Caveman]

Could also be an aircraft swap to blame, ie Neo to standard or A319. This has happened at other airports, if you search around Google there have been other “distraught” pax with “ruined holidays”

No It was not an aircraft swap / downgrade.

[asdf1234]

Could also be an aircraft swap to blame, ie Neo to standard or A319. This has happened at other airports, if you search around Google there have been other “distraught” pax with “ruined holidays”
we have discussed this to death already - the runway has limitations that means during summer ops payloads are restricted. Nothing to do with aircraft swaps or anything else. Anecdotal evidence shows EZY staff know about the summer ops operational issues and have a plan in place to deny check-in for the last 15 or so pax on affected flights. Can't prove it, it's just what I've heard. However historical data proves the point.

[LTNman]

Fortunately for SEN 99.9% of the traveling public would not know this. Certainly it would put me off from making a booking if I knew I was going to have to spend months worry about a hot spell.

[Tagron]

we have discussed this to death already - the runway has limitations that means during summer ops payloads are restricted. Nothing to do with aircraft swaps or anything else. .

A very misleading statement. Only a very small proportion of flights may need to be payload restricted. Take off weights are restricted but this is likely to
only translate into a payload restriction on the longer routes on the network. Short sectors like AMS, CDG and JER clearly should not be affected. It will also depend on the aircraft type planned for the flight. The runway performance of the A320 is superior to that of EZY's (relatively) low powered A319s. It is EZY's choice in terms commercial risk to continue to deploy their A319s on the more critical sectors such as FAO and AGP, though no doubt there are operational reasons such as rotational patterns why they do it.;. The need for this may well decline now that A320s form 50% of the SEN fleet. One might hope that the risk of tech stops or offloads will decrease accordingly..

[Spanish eyes]

So looking at the weather forecast for next week would you be happy to book an Easyjet flight from Southend for midweek to say Spain or Portugal? Actually I wonder if Easyjet look at the forecast and are now restricting ticket sales.

[DC3 Dave]

Flights to Chisinau commence this evening.

Whilst waiting to board one of the longest summer flights from the airport, passengers may wish to purchase something high tech to pass the time from the the airport's latest retail offering which opens today.

https://southendairport.com/explore/dixons?campaign=c982&campaignname=c982&utm_campaign=Dixons-coming-soon&utm_source=c982&utm_medium=email&utm_source=London+Southend+Airport&utm_campaign=abf4be2cee-Dixons+coming+soon&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_87fc73aaf7-abf4be2cee-308486449

[Mister Geezer]

So looking at the weather forecast for next week would you be happy to book an Easyjet flight from Southend for midweek to say Spain or Portugal? Actually I wonder if Easyjet look at the forecast and are now restricting ticket sales.

In the case of flights involving longer distances to the warmer climates, I suspect these will generally be booked some time in advance, so limiting ticket sales at such a late stage would probably be futile.

It’s logistically a lot harder now for airlines to offload due to last minute performance restrictions, since more people than ever travel with hand luggage and check in on line. Therefore the first contact they have with airline ground staff is at the gate. To start offloading passengers at this late stage is going to be far more problematic, than if a flight is overbooked (for example) as offloaded passengers in this case can’t even make it airside.

[asdf1234]

Flights to Chisinau commence this evening.

Whilst waiting to board one of the longest summer flights from the airport, passengers may wish to purchase something high tech to pass the time from the the airport's latest retail offering which opens today.

https://southendairport.com/explore/dixons?campaign=c982&campaignname=c982&utm_campaign=Dixons-coming-soon&utm_source=c982&utm_medium=email&utm_source=London+Southend+Airport&utm_campaign=abf4be2cee-Dixons+coming+soon&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_87fc73aaf7-abf4be2cee-308486449

Are you advertising? Wouldn't have thought that is allowed on here.

[Barling Magna]

FlyOne's inauguaral visit from Chisinau received a cheery "Welcome to Southend" from ATC, but no water arch for the A319. A bit late in the day perhaps.

[Planespeaking]

Posted on another thread and reported by bbc wales, Cardiff is No.20 on the list of the UK's busiest airports, with SEN about to overtake it. Interesting if true.

[MerchantVenturer]

Posted on another thread and reported by bbc wales, Cardiff is No.20 on the list of the UK's busiest airports, with SEN about to overtake it. Interesting if true.
https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/CAA/Content/Standard_Content/Data_and_analysis/Datasets/Airport_stats/Airport_data_2019_05/Table_01_Size_of_UK_Airports.pdf

[daz211]

Why is Anglesey Valley Airport not on the above list ?

[virginblue]

My guess would be because it is RAF Valley.in the first place and thus not a commercial airport?

PS: Interesting piece of data is that the six (sort of) London airports account for 55 per cent of all UK air traffic passengerwise.

[SWBKCB]

PS: Interesting piece of data is that the six (sort of) London airports account for 55 per cent of all UK air traffic passengerwise.

Surprised it's that low.

[Planespeaking]

[QUOTE=virginblue;10523500]My guess would be because it is RAF Valley.in the first place and thus not a commercial airport?

PS: Interesting piece of data is that the six (sort of) London airports account for 55 per cent of all UK air traffic passengerwise.[/QUOTE

What does 'sort of' mean?

[Planespeaking]

My guess would be because it is RAF Valley.in the first place and thus not a commercial airport?

PS: Interesting piece of data is that the six (sort of) London airports account for 55 per cent of all UK air traffic passengerwise.


What does 'sort of' mean?

[DC3 Dave]

What does 'sort of' mean?

Don’t take it so badly, he’s not just referring to SEN. Console yourself by considering that without this airport that 55% would drop to something around.... let me see...... 54%.

Only jesting!

[Planespeaking]

Don’t take it so badly, he’s not just referring to SEN. Console yourself by considering that without this airport that 55% would drop to something around.... let me see...... 54%.

Only jesting!


Its a worry.. another sleepless night!!

[daz211]

My guess would be because it is RAF Valley.in the first place and thus not a commercial airport?

PS: Interesting piece of data is that the six (sort of) London airports account for 55 per cent of all UK air traffic passengerwise.

However, RAF Valley on the isle of Anglesey has 2 commercial flights a day.

[PDXCWL45]

However, RAF Valley on the isle of Anglesey has 2 commercial flights a day.
Anglesey is noted in the CAA monthly stats as a separate airport.

[Spanish eyes]

Just looked up the weather forecast for the airport for the week. Not good with temperatures expected of 32 and 33C by mid week. I have just looked at easyJet’s website and I can still book daily super expensive seats to Malaga indicating the aircraft are nearly full yet Easyjet will know that passengers are going to kicked off many Southend flights meaning that separate non refundable bookings for hotels will be lost and family holidays ruined.

[Barling Magna]

I reckon that flights to Malaga should be OK if they are using the A320NEO. However, they may well be using the 319s.

[LTNman]

If passengers booked a hotel through Easyjet I would think they would be the last people to be kicked off as I think Easyjet would be liable for the lost hotel accommodation as well because passengers would have bought a package. On the day through would those that pick the unfortunate know who has booked a package?

Reading last weeks newspaper article it would appear that those kicked off had no idea what was the real cause of their misery.

Could Easyjet not take a full load and refuel on the way at a small airport to reduce the delay?

Is Ryanair affected by this issue?

[Expressflight]

It will certainly be interesting to see if SEN ops are affected this week by high temperatures/wind conditions imposing limiting RTOWs. When and if that happens is the time to discuss things in my opinion, rather than pessimistic speculation at this stage. I hope someone also monitors LCY ops, and maybe elsewhere, in a similar manner to add a little balance to the discussion.

[Spanish eyes]

Interesting for a few here but a nightmare for those that will be losing their summer holiday.

[Expressflight]

Spanish eyes

You illustrate my point perfectly: "a nightmare for those that will be losing their summer holiday.".

[asdf1234]

If passengers booked a hotel through Easyjet I would think they would be the last people to be kicked off as I think Easyjet would be liable for the lost hotel accommodation as well because passengers would have bought a package. On the day through would those that pick the unfortunate know who has booked a package?

Reading last weeks newspaper article it would appear that those kicked off had no idea what was the real cause of their misery.

Could Easyjet not take a full load and refuel on the way at a small airport to reduce the delay?

Is Ryanair affected by this issue?

I can't be certain but I seem to remember that in the early days of easyJet at SEN they hopped down to Bournemouth to refuel before flying onwards. Can't remember the destination(s) but I think it was during summer ops. Maybe someone else has a clearer memory than me?

[SWBKCB]

It will certainly be interesting to see if SEN ops are affected this week by high temperatures/wind conditions imposing limiting RTOWs. When and if that happens is the time to discuss things in my opinion, rather than pessimistic speculation at this stage. I hope someone also monitors LCY ops, and maybe elsewhere, in a similar manner to add a little balance to the discussion.

Doesn't post #3332 tell us that it has already been an issue?A spokesman for easyJet said: “As with all airlines, weight restrictions are in place for safety reasons. The aircraft was overweight for the weather conditions which meant that 11 passengers had to be transferred onto a later flight. "

[LGS6753]

Further to LTNman's suggestion of fuelling en route, are aircraft permitted to refuel whilst passengers remain on board?

[BA318]

Further to LTNman's suggestion of fuelling en route, are aircraft permitted to refuel whilst passengers remain on board?

On the ground at least, passengers can remain on board but the toilets can't be used and seatbelts shouldn't be fastened (at least on SAS).

[SEN Observer]

How much would the operational cost of the flight rise were a fuel stop required?

[LTNman]

I hope it doesn't come down to what is the cheapest option for the airline rather than doing what is the right thing. I also seem to remember that Easyjet have done refuelling stops in the past from Southend. Not knowing much about performance Vs temperature I would have thought wind speed and wind direction would also pay a part so a gale blowing down the runway might save the day.

[DC3 Dave]

Further to LTNman's suggestion of fuelling en route, are aircraft permitted to refuel whilst passengers remain on board?

It's completely normal to fuel aircraft with passengers on board, also when they are embarking / disembarking.

It needs to be said that when EZY tell the poor unfortunates - whose holiday plans are being thrown into disarray - that they are sooooo sorry, but safety is everything in aviation - you can bet your bottom dollar they don't tell them there is a perfectly workable alternative, but it costs the airline a great deal more and plays havoc with the schedule.

It doesn't sit well with me, but as ​​​​Expressflight has pointed out this is also a problem elsewhere, with LCY having had major issues over this.

[SWBKCB]

It needs to be said that when EZY tell the poor unfortunates - whose holiday plans are being thrown into disarray - that they are sooooo sorry, but safety is everything in aviation - you can bet your bottom dollar they don't tell them there is a perfectly workable alternative, but it costs the airline a great deal more and plays havoc with the schedule.

Where's the like button? :ok:

[Spanish eyes]

Boils down to operating out of marginal airports. If the summer heat doesn't get you then the fog and a CAT1 ILS will. Easyjet will have taken this into account when deciding a SEN base but passengers hate disruption.

[Planespeaking]

Boils down to operating out of marginal airports. If the summer heat doesn't get you then the fog and a CAT1 ILS will. Easyjet will have taken this into account when deciding a SEN base but passengers hate disruption.

It's strange that a number of posters in here can't wait to rub their hands with glee at any perceived glitch in the SEN operation. To my knowledge SEN's terminal is not littered with disappointed pax who have been denied boarding, should that be the case EZY would have departed long ago and FR wouldn't have even bothered. Their respective number crunchers will have worked out their performance figures under various met. conditions and deemed them to be commercially viable, so
let's give this theme a bit of rest shall we, it's all getting rather tedious.

Perhaps we could shift the attention to the LTN thread where it has been reported some of the fire exits were blocked when the terminal had to be evacuated a while ago.
Now if true that really is something to be concerned about.

[aurigny72]

It's strange that a number of posters in here can't wait to rub their hands with glee at any perceived glitch in the SEN operation. To my knowledge SEN's terminal is not littered with disappointed pax who have been denied boarding, should that be the case EZY would have departed long ago and FR wouldn't have even bothered. Their respective number crunchers will have worked out their performance figures under various met. conditions and deemed them to be commercially viable, so
let's give this theme a bit of rest shall we, it's all getting rather tedious. Perhaps we could shift the attention to the LTN thread where it has been reported some of the fire exits were blocked when the terminal had to be evacuated a while ago.
Now that could be serious.
Well said Planespeaking i quite agree with your sentiments. It does seem to me sometimes that a few posters here would like SEN to fail, maybe i am wrong in that opinion, i sincerely hope i am. Lets now just wait and see what (if anything} happens this week during the hot spell of weather.

[Pain in the R's]

If anyone is kicked off their flight then best not to mention it here as this is the good news only thread. It is no good burying ones head in the sand as the subject was raised about easyjet selling seats that they can't fill for technical reasons if it gets too hot. If it happens SEN will be the victim just as much as the passengers so I wouldn't call it anti Southend. As already mentioned would anyone here book a flight to Malaga from Southend in the next couple of days?

[Expressflight]

As already mentioned would anyone here book a flight to Malaga from Southend in the next couple of days?
Yes I would, although not at the price being asked, and I'll be at SEN tomorrow so I'll see for myself how things are going with an Easterly wind forecast.

[LTNman]

Your honesty without the spin is always appreciated here.

[SARF]

At current prices it would appear a lot of people have..maybe they have a weather forecast built into the pricing algorithm to keep the weight down ��.
Whilst we all seem to be focusing on ezy do the 737`s have similar problems when it’s hot ?

[Tagron]

One of the more depressing features of this thread is the sheer ignorance of the workings of the airline industry displayed by some of those who make the most noise. Some of the preceding posters seem completely unaware that many airlines use a deliberate overbooking policy as part of their normal commercial operation. Such an airline will probably have an overbooking profile for each route based on its operational experience. The aim is that the number of seats overbooked should equal the number of no-shows. In this way revenue is maximised. When as sometimes happens all the pax turn up, then the airline is into offloads rebooking, hotels, EU261, social media even perhaps the mainstream press. Its the commercial risk the airline takes. You may not like it but it is common practice.

To imply that it is only at SEN that you will get bumped off is nonsense. EZY clearly have an overbooking policy (though I have no knowledge as to the details of its workings) that may apply anywhere. This article shows the policy coming unstuck for EZY at other well known London area airports.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/12/bumped-off-easyjet-flight-overbooked-denied-boarding

[Spanish eyes]

There is a bit of a difference as overbooking if carried out is by one or two seats only and allows for no shows so I doubt if anyone is routinely kicked off a flight as most flights are not full and those that are will have passengers who have not turned up so allowing for those overbooked to find a seat. What is going to happen is the mass expulsion of passengers due to a weather issue that for Easyjet is unique to Southend and won't happen at Gatwick, Luton and Stansted in the London area. That is assuming the flights are nearly full.

[Expressflight]

To imply that it is only at SEN that you will get bumped off is nonsense. EZY clearly have an overbooking policy (though I have no knowledge as to the details of its workings) that may apply anywhere. This article shows the policy coming unstuck for EZY at other well known London area airports.

I know for a fact that recently 6 pax were bumped off a SEN-JER due to overbooking. If that scenario happened this week on a SEN-AGP flight it would be assumed by some on here that it was due to a temperature-limiting RTOW being the cause. To be honest I quite expect some problems tomorrow as a light Westerly wind in hot conditions is the worst case for SEN. Will it be a catastrophe if this happens? Of course not because these will be extreme temperatures for England and we will probably have train cancellations etc. as well. Some on here simply seize any opportunity to emphasise SEN's limitations and that's their choice but you won't find the same thing on the LTN forum when it's SNOCLO for hours and SEN is operational, nor the LCY forum when a 300' cloudbase causes mass diversions - usually to SEN. Funny old World isn't it?

Regarding RYR's SEN Ops, as a guide in normal, but very warm, Summer temperatures they can lift 189 pax for a 3 hour flight with no problems and only after that do they need to be creative with 'packs off' procedures and the like.

Off to SEN now.

[southender]

Expressflight, well said. Have good day, apparently 05 is currently in use.

[brian_dromey]

Regarding RYR's SEN Ops, as a guide in normal, but very warm, Summer temperatures they can lift 189 pax for a 3 hour flight with no problems and only after that do they need to be creative with 'packs off' procedures and the like.

Off to SEN now.

Thats interesting, I thought the 738 is, as a rule, a poorer performer than the A319/320, is this the benefit of the SFP on FRs newer 737s? Apparently the 320neo is, more or less, unrestricted out of SEN, unlike the A319s - easyJets examples are derated, I understand? Interestingly most of the A319 sales in recent years have been to Chinese airlines operating into high airfields in the Himalayas - a different species of A319 to ehe easyJet examples.

[Expressflight]

There is a bit of a difference as overbooking if carried out is by one or two seats only and allows for no shows so I doubt if anyone is routinely kicked off a flight as most flights are not full and those that are will have passengers who have not turned up so allowing for those overbooked to find a seat. What is going to happen is the mass expulsion of passengers due to a weather issue that for Easyjet is unique to Southend and won't happen at Gatwick, Luton and Stansted in the London area. That is assuming the flights are nearly full.

As a matter of interest has LTN ever suffered restrictive RTOWs due to surface temperature? I ask only because although LTN has excellent TODAs of 3,243m, due to its geographical features, it has an TORA/ASDA of 'only' 2,162m on 08. As I say, just curious about it and no hidden agenda.

[LTNman]

. Some on here simply seize any opportunity to emphasise SEN's limitations and that's their choice but you won't find the same thing on the LTN forum when it's SNOCLO for hours and SEN is operational.


That is not true. Us folk at Luton can be very critical of LTN and rightly so. I certainly say it how I see it and don't paint a picture of a flower when I see a turd. Many subjects would be no go areas here as it would be seen as picking on Southend but improvements often only come from pressure to do things better.

[Planespeaking]

That is not true. Us folk at Luton can be very critical of LTN and rightly so. I certainly say it how I see it and don't paint a picture of a flower when I see a turd. Many subjects would be no go areas here as it would be seen as picking on Southend but improvements often only come from pressure to do things better.

I'm afraid the perception you give in your 6861 posts LTNman is of someone who is highly critical of SEN. Quick to pounce on the slightest negative news but very silent on anything positive.
Of course you are entitled to criticise , however a little balance would be welcome and add credibility when you choose to give us the benefit of your wealth of knowledge in all things aviation.

[asdf1234]

I just read elsewhere the comments of a disgruntled easyJet passenger who was denied boarding at SEN on a Faro flight at the end of June. She didn't comment negatively on the airport, but did criticize the airline. Likewise I think the posters on here need to recognize that what they deem to be anti-SEN news is in fact news/rumour that more accurately reflects poorly on the airline.

[LTNman]

I'm afraid the perception you give in your 6861 posts LTNman is of someone who is highly critical of SEN.

You will have to dig some out for me then and then compare some of my LTN posts.

Anyway this thread is about Southend and not those that post.

We await to hear a report from Expressflight not that anything can be done about the weather but it will be interesting to hear anyway as Southend hits the summer peak about how the airport is coping and if there is room for improvement.

[SARF]

I flew Ryanair last week Sunday to Sunday. Ryanair. Last plane out of the morning rush. .. no problems, no queues..
A couple of late passengers where hoiked out of the check in Q to get an earlier RYR flight ..
Staff all great as usual ..
The only potential issue I saw was from the Ryan air stands... on return there is no cover airside as you are sometimes held up for a bit if they are letting easy jet passengers our from land side, across the corridor back to passport control.
Wouldn’t be fun if it was raining

[Expressflight]

I'll share my thoughts later regarding my SEN visit yesterday but I have the numbers for the first two FlyOne Chisinau (KIV) flights this week. Inbound to SEN they were 28 and 24 respectively while outbound they were 144 and 144.

[NickBarnes]

I'll share my thoughts later regarding my SEN visit yesterday but I have the numbers for the first two FlyOne Chisinau (KIV) flights this week. Inbound to SEN they were 28 and 24 respectively while outbound they were 144 and 144.

Impressive figures for the outbounds I assume a few infants were onboard as its a 132 config on the a319

[tophat27dt]

Impressive figures for the outbounds I assume a few infants were onboard as its a 132 config on the a319
There was actually 144 + 6 children outward.
Seating is for 144 on A319

[DC3 Dave]

Looking at the prices on Flyone's website, demand appears to be there - if you want the next flight from Southend Municipal Airport to Chisinau it will cost you in excess of €600.

It's very early, but it would be nice to think this may be a route that will last more than a season.
Correction: The price I quoted is for 2 people. Still pretty healthy.

[Planespeaking]

Looking at the prices on Flyone's website, demand appears to be there - if you want the next flight from Southend Municipal Airport to Chisinau it will cost you in excess of €600.

It's very early, but it would be nice to think this may be a route that will last more than a season.
Correction: The price I quoted is for 2 people. Still pretty healthy.
Southend Municipal Airport...now there's a title from about 50 years ago. Fingers x'd for Flyone.

[pabely]

There was actually 144 + 6 children outward.
Seating is for 144 on A319
Impressive as there are established connections at LTN & STN and the airports own web site doesn't list Southend as a route

[NickBarnes]

There was actually 144 + 6 children outward.
Seating is for 144 on A319

​​Ah thank you for some reason I thought it was 132, very good loads!

[DC3 Dave]

Southend Municipal Airport...now there's a title from about 50 years ago. Fingers x'd for Flyone.

The name is right there on Flyone’s booking page. Perhaps the route has been a long time in the planning!!

[Planespeaking]

The name is right there on Flyone’s booking page. Perhaps the route has been a long time in the planning!!

Brilliant Dave, well it is Eastern Europe...they aren't using TU 104s on the route are they??

[Expressflight]

I found it interesting that Warwick Brady, in a feature on Stobart Group on the the Proactiveinvestors website, is quoted saying that among Stobart's aims was the creation of "a Virgin-branded network to complement our portfolio of airlines at the airport (SEN)". That's the first time I have seen any specific reference to their plans for SEN directly arising from the creation of Connect Airways (the vehicle created for the purchase of Flybe and the embodyment of Stobart Air within that entity).
Hopefully the exact nature this "Virgin-branded network" will become clear before too long.

[southender]

Let’s hope that’s not just a re-branding of the existing ATRs and Flybe routes

[DC3 Dave]

Let’s hope that’s not just a re-branding of the existing ATRs and Flybe routes



Have a feeling that's all it will be in the short term, and I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see any dramatic growth directly from Connect.

Stobart have demonstrated that they can attract airlines to SEN, I just think that's the way they will wish to continue to grow the airport, not go down the organic route again.

To be frank, I think there's more chance of Chris Grayling keeping his job as Transport Secretary........ hold on - breaking news - he's been sacked!

[LTNman]

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/224366/stobart-s-southend-airport-to-become--next-big-airport-for-london--says-boss-224366.html

No comment

[Tagron]

Thats interesting, I thought the 738 is, as a rule, a poorer performer than the A319/320, is this the benefit of the SFP on FRs newer 737s? Apparently the 320neo is, more or less, unrestricted out of SEN, unlike the A319s - easyJets examples are derated, I understand? Interestingly most of the A319 sales in recent years have been to Chinese airlines operating into high airfields in the Himalayas - a different species of A319 to ehe easyJet examples.

Brian Dromey

You are correct to point out tthat the 738SFP was a game changer for 738 operations at SEN. The non-SFP 738 offered a reasonable radius of operation based on take off performance but the real killer in terms of regular commercial operation was the landing distance requirement, which meant that the inbound load would have to be restricted for all operations whatever the sector distance. There is no means of carrying out a proper comparison using data available in the public arena but my own best guess using available sources is that 738SFP is broadly similar to the A320 in the context of SEN operations. This view is supported by FR's choice of initial SE routes.

You are also correct to point out that the EZY A319 is derated which means that it is more likely to be restricted by adverse conditions than the A320. The EZY aircraft is the A319-111 subtype with 22k lb thrust engines . Other airlines at SEN this summer use the A319-112 with 23.5k engines which offer improved field performance, Air Malta, FlyOne and Volotea. The new FlyOne Chisinau service is the longest sector scheduled for SEN this summer. I would not expect it to suffer any payload penalties, assisted as it is by the late evening departure time.

[brian_dromey]

Brian Dromey

Thanks for the clarification. Just to add another type into the mix, the A320neo has better take off performance than the CEO, but I think single-engine out performance might still be an issue at SEN? For the 737 I hadn't considered the landing weight at all, we all think about the take-off and forget the landing. How anyone could forget the typical FR landing....

[Planespeaking]

Plans are or have been submitted for another new SEN hotel next to the existing Holiday Inn Airport Hotel. Onwards and upwards.

[Expressflight]

Aircraft at SEN requires fuel stop for AGP flight

That got a few people's interest I bet.

Some will be disappointed to hear it was a BA E190 en route LCY-AGP which dropped into SEN for fuel. Apparently they chose to do this rather than dump pax from the flight. All credit to BACF. Both airports had a temp of 35C but no problem for SEN-AGP with a full E195 apparently.

[Planespeaking]

Aircraft at SEN requires fuel stop for AGP flight

That got a few people's interest I bet.

Some will be disappointed to hear it was a BA E190 en route LCY-AGP which dropped into SEN for fuel. Apparently they chose to do this rather than dump pax from the flight. All credit to BACF. Both airports had a temp of 35C but no problem for SEN-AGP with a full E195 apparently.

Strange isn't it Expressflight how quiet some of our most prolific posters are on here when it comes to good news from SEN.

[Expressflight]

Strange isn't it Expressflight how quiet some of our most prolific posters are on here when it comes to good news from SEN
Isn't it just!

[LTNman]

So no Southend passengers bumped off flights from Southend then. That is very good news. Also are you saying an E195 has the same performance figures as say an easyjet A319?

[Planespeaking]

So no Southend passengers bumped off flights from Southend then. That is very good news. Also are you saying an E195 has the same performance figures as say an easyjet A319?
Well done LTNman the gift that keeps on giving.

[Expressflight]

So no Southend passengers bumped off flights from Southend then. That is very good news. Also are you saying an E195 has the same performance figures as say an easyjet A319?No not really, just that for BA to choose SEN for refuelling (rather than perhaps BOH) the E190 must be able to do SEN-AGP with a 35C surface temperature with some margin to spare I should think.
Talking of the A319, the two flights I thought might struggle today were 16:40/16:45 departures to AGP and FAO which were operated by A319s. I'm told both flights were "close to capacity" so that does rather put into perspective some of the pessimistic comments posted on here earlier in the week. What did one poster say? We should expect events that would be "a nightmare for those who will be losing their family holiday" (not you I know, but from your neck of the woods).

[Captain_Caveman]

SEN-FAO flight had to deny boarding to some customers this afternoon.

[Spanish eyes]

Negative comments not welcome here. Should have been positive and said most passengers made it to FAO this afternoon.

[SARF]

No lack of breeze at Southend right now ... tho conditions may get a bit lively in the next hour or so

[Pain in the R's]

Simple answer, Easyjet need to buy a small fleet of E195's for their summer SEN operation.

[aurigny72]

Simple answer, Easyjet need to buy a small fleet of E195's for their summer SEN operation.
What they need to do is replace the two remaining underpowered A319s in the SEN based fleet with 2 more A320neos.

[DC3 Dave]

I am disappointed that easyJet seem to be choosing to distress a few rather than make a (costly) fuel stop, as has happened in previous years. However, it does need to be noted that today was the hottest July day ever recorded. I also think it's worth pointing out that yesterday evening over 150 pax didn't make it to AMS, and another, 150 + didn't get back to SEN, because a contactor was unable to fuel aircraft at Schiphol.

​​​​​​I make the points because I believe perspective is important. Doesn't mean I'm not critical of what appears to going on, because for this airport every passenger matters. Or they should do.

[SARF]

Seems to me that easy jet and schiphol are a bit pants. And sen are er. Ok

[Expressflight]

What they need to do is replace the two remaining underpowered A319s in the SEN based fleet with 2 more A320neos.
Three EZY A320 (two being neo) aircraft operating at SEN today and 40 scheduled departures by eight airlines. I think that's the highest daily number in SEN's new incarnation.

[mikkie4]

unlike all the other London airports SEN has no delays/cancelations this news will no doubt upset the people that have got it in for our airport, WELL DONE EZY/RYAN AIR for keeping things running smoothly

[Planespeaking]

unlike all the other London airports SEN has no delays/cancelations this news will no doubt upset the people that have got it in for our airport, WELL DONE EZY/RYAN AIR for keeping things running smoothly
Yes indeed mikkie that must have come as a bitter disappointment to some of the Bedfordshire brotherhood.

I am sorry that many of LTNs pax had their travel disrupted in the last 24 hours, however to be fair much of that was wx related and I understand Swanwick had problems.

Well done to all at SEN and with one of the highest temps on record it proves that the airlines/airport can operate efficiently and with little commercial penalty even in the most extreme conditions.

It would be good if some of our critics would welcome that fact, but I'm not holding my breath.

[asdf1234]

Yes indeed mikkie that must have come as a bitter disappointment to some of the Bedfordshire brotherhood.

I am sorry that many of LTNs pax had their travel disrupted in the last 24 hours, however to be fair much of that was wx related and I understand Swanwick had problems.

Well done to all at SEN and with one of the highest temps on record it proves that the airlines/airport can operate efficiently and with little commercial penalty even in the most extreme conditions.

It would be good if some of our critics would welcome that fact, but I'm not holding my breath.



Who would have thought back in 2009 that 10 years later SEN would have 80 scheduled airline flights departing or arriving in a single day! Incredible news. Sadly the weather has conspired to make both Mikkie's and Planespeaking's posts a tad daft. Mahon and Lourdes are the stand out delays from the morning departures. I think there will be many more before the day it finished.

[Planespeaking]

Who would have thought back in 2009 that 10 years later SEN would have 80 scheduled airline flights departing or arriving in a single day! Incredible news. Sadly the weather has conspired to make both Mikkie's and Planespeaking's posts a tad daft. Mahon and Lourdes are the stand out delays from the morning departures. I think there will be many more before the day it finished.
Yes but my understanding is that flight delays are due to weather related problems within the London and European ATC areas causing flow control constraints. These delays are not caused by runway/airfield performance limitations.

[Captain_Caveman]

For heavens sake, why cant people on this thread just grow up and stop acting like children. We are adults, have an adult conversation and accept people have different views on different topics. If everyone thought and felt the same way then it would be boring. For the record, I live in Bedfordshire and have no agenda.
Steps down off the soapbox

[Expressflight]

Well done to all at SEN and with one of the highest temps on record it proves that the airlines/airport can operate efficiently and with little commercial penalty even in the most extreme conditions.It would be good if some of our critics would welcome that fact, but I'm not holding my breath.

Out of all the posts here over the past few days that is the indisputable fact that emerges from all the claims and counter-claims of various posters, myself included.

I'm sure Stobarts must be delighted, and perhaps a little surprised, that in temperatures up to 35 degrees the operation of the fleets of B738 and A320 aircraft remained virtually unaffected to destinations far more distant than anyone would have envisaged even being served 5 years ago. Even the EZY A319s, with their de-rated spec engines, seem to have exceeded expectations. I hope that even the sternest of critics of SEN will accept this as being true and that it puts another 'tick' in SEN's box.

[LTNman]

Yes indeed mikkie that must have come as a bitter disappointment to some of the Bedfordshire brotherhood.

Still trying to work out who that comment was aimed at so let me spell out my position regarding SEN so there are no doubts.

It doesn't bother me if Southend handles 1,2, 5 or 10 million passengers. What happens at Southend has no effect on other London Airports so good luck in their efforts to expand. If I think passengers are getting a raw deal, are being mistreated, are being bumped, are stuck in long queues or that Stobart is telling porkies I will say something that a few here conceive as a negative comment although looking back on old posts I am struggling to find any. This is no different than my comments about LTN except I am either ignored on that thread or people know I want to see a better LTN just like I want to see a better SEN. OK, is that clear.

On the other hand we have a majority here who see success as purely a head count, number of routes and airline visits. I like to look at the bigger picture, sorry if that offends.

So Luton has 17.355 million passengers and Southend around 1.5 million passengers. So which is the better airport and why? Go figure!

[AirportPlanner1]

unlike all the other London airports SEN has no delays/cancelations this news will no doubt upset the people that have got it in for our airport, WELL DONE EZY/RYAN AIR for keeping things running smoothly

Not true though, last night’s Aberdeen and Groningen flights were cancelled although with LCY diverts I think overall SEN had a net gain. Also many delays today, although it’s largely down to ATC elsewhere.

[Buster the Bear]

Stobart must be 'sweating the asset', judging by Warwick Brady's bonus!

[Barling Magna]

I don't really understand why people feel it necessary to run down any airport in comparison to SEN and vice versa. It would be preferable for us to focus on rumours and facts about SEN's past, present and future rather than sniping at others and have others snipe at us. As LTN man says SEN poses no threat to other London airports and actually assists them, especially LCY and STN, when closures occur there (there were four LCY diversions into SEN yesterday evening for example). SEN will never challenge LTN, STN or LGW. Let's celebrate the success of turning round a moribund facility into a growing international airport whilst acknowledging its limitations. Surely that's better for everybody's blood pressure.........?

[LTNman]

At last someone speaks wise words.

[Expressflight]

I'm still trying to understand the reasons for the imbalance between the inbound and outbound loads on the FlyOne KIV-SEN service.

Last Friday the numbers were KIV-SEN 25 and SEN-KIV 139 + 9 infants. Those numbers are similar to those of the previous flights on this new route.

[davidjohnson6]

I don't know specifics about the SEN-KIV route, but I've seen in previous summers on similiar routes a big rush to return to the town/village where the rest of the family live (eg see elderly parents) over the summer and return to the place of work at the end of August / early September.

Many born in the UK will go to Ibiza over the summer for a week or two. Many Moldovans living in the UK will presumably rush to Moldova over the summer for 2 weeks. You can see something similiar in the Italy-Albania market

[Expressflight]

Last week I did promise to offer my observations of visiting SEN for the first time since RYR commenced ops there.

Towards the middle of the day the check-in hall was busy but flowing well with a high volume of hold baggage evident - understandable at the start of the peak holiday period. The new Costa and W H Smith outlets landside are good additions and both were busy. There was no queue to Security, just a steady flow up the elevators and along the walkway with no bottlenecks evident. Very few people were making use of the large lawned area in front of the terminal despite (or maybe because of) the very hot weather. The incoming trains were offloading large numbers and the Long Stay 3 (free 15 minutes) drop-off was well used as was the Short Stay (£3 for 10 minutes) drop-off. Signage for dropped pax exiting the Long Stay drop-off could be better and I mentioned this to management. All in all everything was running smoothly but that might not reflect how it is at 05:00 of course. I watched the RYR CFU departure and it looked to me it used max thrust (rotation looked a little earlier than usual) rather than flex as, apparently, is normal for RYR at SEN. Temperature was around 31C at the time with a 5kt headwind component.

There is now a train ticket machine facing you as the come out of the Customs hall but that is poorly sited as meet-and-greeters tend to obscure it. Most I'm sure walk to the station and buy their tickets there, although I always pre-book.

All in all things looked good but this was just a snapshot at a fairly quiet time of day; perhaps 6 departures and 6 arrivals within a 2 hour period.

I don't intend this as a 'how wonderful SEN is' review at all; just what I saw at the time.

P.S. There had been a drone scare a little while before I arrived and the airfield was closed for 30 minutes but no diversions were needed; just some holding overhead.

[SEN Observer]

I looked in at SEN this morning and while I was there a diversion arrived, BE1333 from Edinburgh, which should have gone to London City. No idea why this occurred and I THINK it was 67 on board. In the middle of counting a baggage truck stopped right in my line of sight but I don't think I missed any. The two BA Embraers that diverted in yesterday evening were still there too. Nice to see the variety!

[DC3 Dave]

I don't know specifics about the SEN-KIV route, but I've seen in previous summers on similiar routes a big rush to return to the town/village where the rest of the family live (eg see elderly parents) over the summer and return to the place of work at the end of August / early September.

Many born in the UK will go to Ibiza over the summer for a week or two. Many Moldovans living in the UK will presumably rush to Moldova over the summer for 2 weeks. You can see something similiar in the Italy-Albania market

You know your onions, judging from the KIV-SEN prices rising significantly towards the end of August which suggests the demand you speak of.

Pleased to note that Southend Municipal has been 'upgraded' to London Southend on Flyone's booking page.

[DC3 Dave]

Just thought I’d post this piece from tonight’s echo.

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17806729.southend-airport-sees-two-biggest-weekends-ever-thanks-ryanair-loganair/

[willy wombat]

73% pax 18 to early 30s yet the airport cannot manage to create an app!8

[davidjohnson6]

Much news in the press about Ryanair wanting to cut staff and routes
Quite a few Ryanair routes at Southend have some pretty low fares available - suggesting demand is not great. Any thoughts on how SEN will fare in this episode ?

[asdf1234]

Much news in the press about Ryanair wanting to cut staff and routes
Quite a few Ryanair routes at Southend have some pretty low fares available - suggesting demand is not great. Any thoughts on how SEN will fare in this episode ?
I think SEN will be fine. The airport will be paying the airline to be at SEN for at least the initial 12 months of operations, maybe longer. Ryanair will take the freebie and close bases where costs of operation are higher.

[SEN Observer]

A Saab 2000 on the Aberdeen flight this morning. A tech 145 or a few more passengers than the Embraer could seat. Anyone know?

[brian_dromey]

73% pax 18 to early 30s yet the airport cannot manage to create an app!8
What would the app be used for? Is there something the mobile version of the website doesn't offer?

[willy wombat]

That I don’t know but I do know that to a certain generation, if there isn’t an app it doesn’t exist. Also a good app works much better on a smartphone than a mobile version of the website. EasyJet and EDI are two good examples of this IMHO.

[brian_dromey]

That I don’t know but I do know that to a certain generation, if there isn’t an app it doesn’t exist. Also a good app works much better on a smartphone than a mobile version of the website. EasyJet and EDI are two good examples of this IMHO.

I really doubt that companies don't exist to any sizeable number of people without an App. There are very few things that can't be achieved with a well optimised mobile site, Apps do have their place, but fi they have no USP, why bother? Mobile Web is orders of magnitude cheaper to develop and support than an App. The development cost of a good app is in the 10-20k range plus ongoing support. Apps offer a lot more information and analytics of customer data, but Apps without an obvious purpose are rarely opened and iOS will automatically delete them after a given period of inactivity.

If there really are people like you say they will have the flyBe, Ryanair, easyJet and Sky Scanner App. Even if they don't know that SEN exists when they enter "London" into the search box SEN will automatically come up.

[willy wombat]

Well I believe in covering all the bases and £10-20k is doubtless loose change compared to the marketing support dished out to EZY, FR etc

[SWBKCB]

Makes you wonder why so many firms waste their time developing them...

[Expressflight]

Passenger numbers in June for GLA-SEN were 3,691 and ABZ-SEN 3,609. These represent load factors of 57% and 56% respectively.

[brian_dromey]

Makes you wonder why so many firms waste their time developing them...

Because they can offer a much better experience, increase engagement and give deeper customer insight. But only if there is a reason to use it. An app for the sake of an app, with no USP or useful features isn’t 20k well spent. Apps with geo tagging, loyalty schemes, payment methods, boarding pass integration all offer something to the customer in exchange for their data. Customers already have the Apps that will result in them using SEN - the airline or comparison Apps.

I responded to a comment that SEN should develop an App and the reply to “why?” was “don’t know”.

[LTNman]

Back to one of my pet subjects for Southend. With the airport getting busier Stobart will be fully aware of what happens when it closes its doors at night. Should this still be allowed to happen? The terminal will still be staffed so why are the doors locked?

https://www.airlinequality.com/airport-reviews/southend-airport/



L Makayovs (United Kingdom) 14th July 2019

"use it only in daylight"

✅ Trip Verified (https://www.airlinequality.com/verified-reviews/) | I was very disappointed that upon arrival at the airport at 1.30 at night I found the airport entrance hall closed. People were standing outside like homeless people or sitting inside the train-station on the floor. I was lucky that when I arrived it wasn’t raining and it was relatively warm outside. I needed to use the toilet after hours of travellig and as everything was closed the toilets were locked as well. Luckily there was a kind man at the train station who opened the toilet there for me. It is disgraceful.

Some travellers don’t live in London or in the area and travel long hours so they can get their flight and instead find the airport locked so they cannot use basic facilities like the toilets. Next time I am travelling I will definitely use a different airport and company for my travel. I know that staff were just following the rules established from higher up. In general the airport is clean and staff helpful. However I wouldn’t recommend this airport to anybody or tell them to use it only in daylight.

[DC3 Dave]

I definitely have sympathy for anyone who arrives on a delayed flight only to be shoved out of the terminal when the best option for them could be waiting for the first train.

But just how many people arrive at 0130 when the first departure is 0630? And if you had a good reason wouldn't you be interested in what facilities would be available even if you assumed you could enter the the airport?

[asdf1234]

I definitely have sympathy for anyone who arrives on a delayed flight only to be shoved out of the terminal when the best option for them could be waiting for the first train.

But just how many people arrive at 0130 when the first departure is 0630? And if you had a good reason wouldn't you be interested in what facilities would be available even if you assumed you could enter the the airport?
easyJet and Ryanair attract price conscious travellers. Some get buses and coaches to the airport or the last train. Not being able to afford a hotel the night before or a taxi on the morning of their departure, they intend to use the airport facilities overnight. At other airports there is plenty of evidence of people doing this.

[Expressflight]

I definitely have sympathy for anyone who arrives on a delayed flight only to be shoved out of the terminal when the best option for them could be waiting for the first train. But just how many people arrive at 0130 when the first departure is 0630? And if you had a good reason wouldn't you be interested in what facilities would be available even if you assumed you could enter the the airport?
Now that there is a train from London arriving before 05:30 (except Sundays before someone points that out) there is less reason than before to arrive in the middle of the night and surely if you plan to arrive at 01:30 (this was presumably by train as the first X30 doesn't arrive SEN until 05:25) you would check the website to see what facilities will be open in the terminal. If you do that you will find in the Q & A of Terminal Opening Hours:
"Can I wait in the terminal overnight?"
"No the terminal closes at midnight or after the last arrival and does not re-open until 4am."

The complainant says he will use another airport in future and that is obviously what he needs to do as SEN is not suitable for his needs. Fair enough but I wonder what percentage of passengers planning to use SEN need to enter the terminal before 0400. Very few I would suggest so there is no commercial advantage for SEN in opening it at night yet there would be a considerable cost in doing so to ensure safety and security. I wonder who opened the station toilet for him as I thought the station was closed similar hours to those of the terminal.
These days so many people seem to think that every facility will be available to them whenever and wherever they want it and don't even bother to check if that will be the case.

[AirportPlanner1]

I also suspect that being virtually within the town (urban area) SEN is more susceptible than most to non-travellers turning up for a night in the warm/dry. This itself would be problematic. STN has joined LHR in moving on sleepers. I’m not sure what the situation is at LGW or LTN after dark.

I’m in agreement this will affect very few travellers, and I’d suggest the passengers it will affect aren’t of any value to the airport anyway because they won’t spend anything and by virtue of seeking cheapest fare available would in fact return when a £5 flight to Dublin is available.

[asdf1234]

Now that there is a train from London arriving before 05:30 (except Sundays before someone points that out) there is less reason than before to arrive in the middle of the night and surely if you plan to arrive at 01:30 (perhaps off one of the last trains from London?) you would check the website to see what facilities will be open in the terminal. If you do that you will find in the Q & A of Terminal Opening Hours:
"Can I wait in the terminal overnight?"
"No the terminal closes at midnight or after the last arrival and does not re-open until 4am."

The complainant says he will use another airport in future and that is obviously what he needs to do as SEN is not suitable for his needs. Fair enough but I wonder what percentage of passengers planning to use SEN need to enter the terminal before 0400. Very few I would suggest so there is no commercial advantage for SEN in opening it at night yet there would be a considerable cost in doing so to ensure safety and security. I wonder who opened the station toilet for him as I thought the station was closed similar hours to those of the terminal.
These days so many people seem to think that every facility will be available to them whenever and wherever they want it and don't even bother to check if that will be the case.

The first train gets to Southend Airport at 05:29 so only suitable for flights departing 07:30 or later given that the airport themselves advise passengers to turn up at least 2 hours prior to their flight. So the next best option for all flights prior to 07:30 is to take the last train out of London and get to the airport at 01:47. For people booking LCC flights budget is everything - nobody wants to risk losing their flight because they turned up too late so those travelling via public transport will arrive the night before.

This morning there were 7 flights scheduled to depart before 07:30am.

Part of the problem is the London prefix that the airport uses. People automatically expect a London Airport to be open all night.

[LTNman]

Passengers kip down overnight in out of the way places around Luton's terminal. Some even bring their sleeping bags but it is just tolerated. The majority just use the seating areas or stay awake by using the land side coffee shops etc which are all 24 hour.

I’d suggest the passengers it will affect aren’t of any value to the airport anyway because they won’t spend anything and by virtue of seeking cheapest fare available would in fact return when a £5 flight to Dublin is available.

All passengers should be valued so it is disingenuous to suggest that the airport should shun travellers on a tight budget. It is those very passengers that fill the cheapest seats which allows those with more money to book the higher price tickets otherwise they would be taking the cheapest seats with the expensive seats remaining unsold.

If the airport wants to be a big player in the London market then it needs to act as a big player and give customers basic overnight facilities they expect. Maybe there should be a campaign in the local press for a 24 hour portaloo and hot dog stand to be provided on the station platform while passengers wait to be let into the terminal as a half way measure. With first flights around 6:30 many passengers, even those with money, will be arriving before the key is turned in the lock. I would love to know exactly how many people are queuing up outside the door at 4am but as a passenger who routinely arrives 3 hours before departure I would also be in that queue if I knew no better.

[AirportPlanner1]

Part of the problem is the London prefix that the airport uses. People automatically expect a London Airport to be open all night.

Perhaps City should drop London from their name for the same reason?

[LTNman]

City is a different kettle of fish and you know it. They cater for premium passengers who do not turn up at one in the morning. Southend needs to stay ahead of the game and build on its reputation which was a long time coming.

[Expressflight]

City is a different kettle of fish and you know it. They cater for premium passengers who do not turn up at one in the morning. Southend needs to stay ahead of the game and build on its reputation which was a long time coming.
I'm sorry but I cannot go along with what you say on this one. I repeat my assertion that the numbers who turn up at SEN some time after midnight hoping to kip down for a few hours prior to catching their flight is probably very few and to cater for their needs would be costly with very little upside. Haven't you noticed that virtually all businesses, and airports can most certainly be included among them, operate in a way that maximises their revenues while minimising their costs? You have noticed I'm sure that LTN is so cost-conscious that they don't even put in ceilings, unless VIPs are due to visit visit and the photo opportunities might reveal this fact.

As far as LCY is concerned, they close the terminal at 2200 and it re-opens at 0430 (with Security opening at 0515) and I suspect leisure and VFR traveller numbers there are higher than you suggest. Perhaps people do turn up there in the small hours, who knows?

[brian_dromey]

Surely it is up to the individual to ensure that the terminal will remains open overnight? The SEN website is really clear that people can’t sleep there overnight. In contrast STN isn’t clear at all that sleeping isn’t allowed. Their 24 hour operation wording implies that it is.

I get that an 0630 fight means arriving around 0430 and leaving bed significantly before that - 0300, or even before. A hotel hardly seems worth it. But that’s up to the individual - it’s really not the airports concern, or business, where their passengers slept.

[SWBKCB]

Love all the defensive responses - big city aspirations, small town attitude

[DC3 Dave]

City is a different kettle of fish and you know it. They cater for premium passengers who do not turn up at one in the morning. Southend needs to stay ahead of the game and build on its reputation which was a long time coming.

You may want to read this piece and in particular the second paragraph.

https://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-interview-kiwi-highflyer-robert-sinclair-steering-london-city-airport-revamp-through-a4179361.html

[Planespeaking]

Love all the defensive responses - big city aspirations, small town attitude

It's a lovely summers day in Essex. I don't know what the weather is like in Northumberland, but if it's as good as it is here in small town Essex near SEN I think I would rather be soaking up the sun with a beer than raising my blood pressure over an airport that's 200 miles away.

But it's nice to know that somebody cares.

In the meantime watch this space for SEN news.

[SWBKCB]

It's a lovely summers day in Essex. I don't know what the weather is like in Northumberland, but if it's as good as it is here in small town Essex near SEN I think I would rather be soaking up the sun with a beer than raising my blood pressure over an airport that's 200 miles away.

Thanks for your concern, but no blood pressure being raised here, just an eyebrow of wry amusement.

And it's was glorious up above God's county this morning. :ok:

[Planespeaking]

Thanks for your concern, but no blood pressure being raised here, just an eyebrow of wry amusement.

And it's was glorious up above God's county this morning. :ok:
A lovely county, more than it will be in Essex tonight when the summer storm from hell rips through according to the BBC weather forecasters!! Battening down the hatches now!🍷🍷

[LTNman]

Just saying it how I see it. As no one seems bothered about the customer experience at Southend I guess I will remain their champion. Maybe everything is just rosy and there is no room for improvement. Wonder why the FBO is open 24 hours a day though. Do they make money through the night? Maybe it is indeed the Southend dossers that keep the terminal shut at night. Still think it is a real shame.

With regard to City becoming a bucket and spade airport maybe so but never for the budget traveller which is fortunate for Southend.

[Planespeaking]

Just saying it how I see it. As no one seems bothered about the customer experience at Southend I guess I will remain their champion. Maybe everything is just rosy and there is no room for improvement. Wonder why the FBO is open 24 hours a day though. Do they make money through the night? Maybe it is indeed the Southend dossers that keep the terminal shut at night. Still think it is a real shame.

With regard to City becoming a bucket and spade airport maybe so but never for the budget traveller which is fortunate for Southend.

Is it a bird, is it a plane, no it's LTNman coming to save the SEN experience!! I'm sure that thousands of SEN pax and Stobart management will sleep easy in their beds tonight knowing that LTNman will be overseeing the operation. Because according to LTNman "no one seems to be bothered."
Give us your phone number lad because it seems you have the answer to everything.



!!

[LTNman]

Funny how people can turn on someone for only wanting the best. As you say who cares what passengers think if they are budget passengers. Maybe the airport should consider extending its terminal closure to save more money? Maybe you should be made a bean counter as you have all the answers.

I would imagine if Stobart announced that the terminal was going 24/7 it would be seized on here as a positive step.

Maybe Luton is actually a far better airport? Shhh who said that!

[AirportPlanner1]

City is a different kettle of fish and you know it. They cater for premium passengers who do not turn up at one in the morning. Southend needs to stay ahead of the game and build on its reputation which was a long time coming.

Actually that’s where you’re not quite right. Yes by and large City caters to premium and business travellers supplemented with a large (and I’d say growing) contingent of mostly higher end leisure travellers. However, if you ever search for long-haul flights from London it is very common for LCY to come up at the bargain basement end.

I would suggest the sort of people that book a 26 hour journey to China for £400 are exactly the sort that would book a £10 flight to Spain at 6:30am and expect to kip on the floor while they wait.

[Expressflight]

Wonder why the FBO is open 24 hours a day though. Do they make money through the night?
The FBO will certainly be making money at night through to the end of September and I think that currently the maximum night movements allowed under SEN's planning consent are all being taken up. Under more normal circumstances the FBO is fully staffed at night as required to service the PPR slots booked.

[BA318]

Actually that’s where you’re not quite right. Yes by and large City caters to premium and business travellers supplemented with a large (and I’d say growing) contingent of mostly higher end leisure travellers. However, if you ever search for long-haul flights from London it is very common for LCY to come up at the bargain basement end.

I would suggest the sort of people that book a 26 hour journey to China for £400 are exactly the sort that would book a £10 flight to Spain at 6:30am and expect to kip on the floor while they wait.

LCY actually put out a press release recently saying that their passengers are now 50/50 split between leisure and business. If you regularly fly from LCY you'll see lots of passengers travelling on cheap fares to Africa - especially connecting with KLM to ACC and LOS and now TAP as well. It's not like the old days of all business travelers.

[DC3 Dave]

LCY actually put out a press release recently saying that their passengers are now 50/50 split between leisure and business. If you regularly fly from LCY you'll see lots of passengers travelling on cheap fares to Africa - especially connecting with KLM to ACC and LOS and now TAP as well. It's not like the old days of all business travelers.

So that leads nicely into a question: Does anyone believe there’s a slice of that pie for SEN with Virgin Connect on the way?

[Bee Rexit]

......You have noticed I'm sure that LTN is so cost-conscious that they don't even put in ceilings, unless VIPs are due to visit visit and the photo opportunities might reveal this fact.
......
Expressflight and as if by magic... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7342319/Luton-Airport-terminal-causing-long-delays-torrential-downpours.html

:D (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7342319/Luton-Airport-terminal-causing-long-delays-torrential-downpours.html)

[SWBKCB]

Expressflight and as if by magic... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7342319/Luton-Airport-terminal-causing-long-delays-torrential-downpours.html

:D (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7342319/Luton-Airport-terminal-causing-long-delays-torrential-downpours.html)

Attack the best form of defence?

[VickersVicount]

Wonder what the numbers are for the new Loganair through-route SEN-GLA-SYY? Guess they have nothing to lose offering it, given both routes were to operate independently and sounds good on the advertising.

[Captain_Caveman]

I hear from friends in the golden harp that the EMA and SEN bases will be reducing in size as part of the bigger problems being experienced within the company. Has anyone seen a public announcement yet ?

[tophat27dt]

I hear from friends in the golden harp that the EMA and SEN bases will be reducing in size as part of the bigger problems being experienced within the company. Has anyone seen a public announcement yet ?
No news from SEN operations yet. The winter schedule only requires two aircraft, so I suppose that's what they are referring to. Summer 2020 program not published yet.

[pabely]

The FBO will certainly be making money at night through to the end of September and I think that currently the maximum night movements allowed under SEN's planning consent are all being taken up. Under more normal circumstances the FBO is fully staffed at night as required to service the PPR slots booked.
So they are max out night movement quotas, not good news if they are having to turn away business?

[Expressflight]

So they are max out night movement quotas, not good news if they are having to turn away business?
If they're able to sell all their capacity that's good news. If they had even more capacity to sell that would be even better news.

[SARF]

If the FBO is maxed out already (albeit due to restrictions else where) that’s great news.. I’m sure some of,those customers will become more regular users and it’s fully utilising the asset

[AirportPlanner1]

No news from SEN operations yet. The winter schedule only requires two aircraft, so I suppose that's what they are referring to. Summer 2020 program not published yet.

Is a 2 aircraft base considered efficient for FR going forward? Based on this year’s schedule they could probably get away with two aircraft next summer if they dropped the weaker routes and used DUB-based aircraft for that route

[fatmed]

Is a 2 aircraft base considered efficient for FR going forward? Based on this year’s schedule they could probably get away with two aircraft next summer if they dropped the weaker routes and used DUB-based aircraft for that route

yet sources more closely related to SEN are hearing that RYR will be 4 AC next summer. I don’t know either way mind.

[AirportPlanner1]

yet sources more closely related to SEN are hearing that RYR will be 4 AC next summer. I don’t know either way mind.

As I understood it FR we’re looking to rationalise and make efficient their bases, therefore I’d assume longer-term it’s 3+ aircraft or bust for a SEN base. Of course, in that scenario routes can be operated into SEN from other bases. I suspect though there is a deal in place with sufficient incentives for the FR base to stay a while.

[SARF]

It all depends on how much money they make. Or don’t make. if they rake it in from a one aircraft base they will keep it

[FRatSTN]

If I'm not mistaken FR only operate the special short-field performance B738s at SEN, hence the entire schedule is operated wholly by those 3x based a/c.

Could you imagine the operational headache of flying non-based aircraft in from Europe that have to be short field performance... that would be hugely challenging, if not near on impossible.

[Tagron]

Broadly that is correct. A SEN route from an out station could only be operated from a base with enough SFPs to be sure of having one available when needed.
But apparently the FR fleet of SFPs may now total some 45-48 airframes so it may not be as difficult as it appears at first sight.

[Expressflight]

FRatSTN

I think I agree with you that it would be very problematic to ensure that a non-based SFP aircraft would always be available to operate XXX-SEN flights. Aircraft substitution situations would always arise and if the SFP fleet is really only some 45-48 in number then that speaks for itself. At present SEN aircraft operational swaps always seem to happen at DUB.

[22/04]

RYR tend to park some aircraft up in the winter don't they- isn't all they need to have a couple parked up somewhere that can be called on.

[compton3bravo]

May I suggest it is more to do with flight deck crewing having worked there socks off during the summer and very little flying time left in there annual flying hours so a number of aircraft are parked up during the winter plus also a lack of demand.

[DC3 Dave]

Greetings, Stats Fans! The CAA figures for June are available at last. Get crunching you analysts out there.

[tophat27dt]

Greetings, Stats Fans! The CAA figures for June are available at last. Get crunching you analysts out there.
I have done it..and all written on the LSA forum on Facebook. !

[runwayman]

Advert on airport website as follows: Cargo Security Operatives evening & night shifts, sounds like night freight flights on the cards

[Barling Magna]

There are already night freight flights in operation, mainly using small aircraft such as Dornier 228s and Metroliners. Maybe JOTA's 146 freightliners will start services.

[Planespeaking]

Advert on airport website as follows: Cargo Security Operatives evening & night shifts, sounds like night freight flights on the cards
Just in time for Brexit...good planning!

[Expressflight]

There are already night freight flights in operation, mainly using small aircraft such as Dornier 228s and Metroliners. Maybe JOTA's 146 freightliners will start services.
There are no regular nightly freight flights any more and haven't been for some time, only the odd ad hoc charter. There was talk at one time of Jota starting contract freight flights from SEN so maybe that is a possibility but because the job description says 'security screening of parcels and packages' that sounds more like courier express parcels than palletised freight, so smaller aircraft maybe.

[Red Four]

Of particular note in the ad. it says 'screening of outbound packages'. The airport as far as I am aware, has not as yet invested in an a dedicated cargo xray screening machine, so unless this is being entertained now, it will be still limited the operation to smaller parcel types/aircraft types.

As previous poster said, Brexit would be the time to have all this in place by, particularly as the Government is known looking to find solutions to help iron out any wrinkles that occur from the 1st November onwards, including air freight capability and options. Hopefully conversations will already have been held.

[AirportPlanner1]

Does the Binair flight to Germany still operate. I know it’s departure wasn’t really ‘night’ (circa 9/10pm?) but I think it arrived in the early hours?

[callum91]

Binair ceased trading in 2018 but I’ve no idea whether another company will have taken on the flights.

[goldeneye]

Loganair appear to have dropped one of the three flights to Glasgow. The one that operated from and to Stornoway has been removed and now flights involve a change in Glasgow.

Looks like Aberdeen has also had its lunchtime departure removed from September.

[AirportPlanner1]

That’s a shame. The direct option to SYY is still there northbound but only southbound on a Sunday. It’s a 4:50 journey rest of the week.

The ABZ evening flight has also been retimed a bit earlier which isn’t so useful if you want to head up there for the day.

[Expressflight]

That's very short notice to just today cancel the lunchtime flights with effect from 2nd September - I wonder why they did that as many people already booked will be greatly inconvenienced. Both GLA and ABZ running at about 56% load factors at the moment, assuming all operated on the ERJ145. Also the lunchtime flights don't seem any less busy than the other two. Moving the 'evening' flights 2 hours earlier will lose a lot of business I think.

[runwayman]

Possibly some sort of announcement tomorrow

[Expressflight]

Possibly some sort of announcement tomorrow
I didn't think it was quite that soon but maybe.