Southend-2

[Expressflight]

If Southend can’t make a success of biz jets when the choice is them or nothing overnight then they should hang their heads in shame.

I noted overnight arrivals of a Legacy 650 and a Falcon 900EX which were probably not 'normal' SEN visitors.

[ericlday]

Legacy just repositioned to Luton

[tophat27dt]

I noted overnight arrivals of a Legacy 650 and a Falcon 900EX which were probably not 'normal' SEN visitors.
Are these night flights normally arriving from USA?

[SEN Observer]

I see FR24 is well behind with the news - showing two Carlisle arrivals and departures for tomorrow!

[welkyboy]

But it has also got N618WF out to Tampa at 0359!!

[welkyboy]

Sorry I meant in from Tampa!,

[tophat27dt]

I see the EZY Barcelona flight was cancelled again Sunday and the Faro inbound delayed till 0100. Are they an Airbus short today?

[DC3 Dave]

New Route

EZY Sofia 2X weekly from 16/12

[inOban]

! Or going head to head with FR from STN to Sofia was daft!

[ajamieson]

EZY Sofia 2X weekly from 16/12
Bit random, but great. An underserved destination and the BA daily times at LHR are irregular. :ok:

[claron]

Interesting destination. However I suspect only for the ski season.

[tophat27dt]

! Or going head to head with FR from STN to Sofia was daft!
SEN has its own catchment area and can compete with STN on some routes at peak season. They seem to know their ski resort destinations quite well, so I am confident it will do well. More sunseekers are also experiencing Romania and Bulgaria for the first time as Majorca and Ibiza are crazily overcrowded in high season, so maybe Varna is a summer possibility for 2019 too.

[AirportPlanner1]

In effect EZY have swapped over STN-SOF and SEN-LYS for SEN-SOF and STN-LYS.

I didnt see this coming but an interesting route. I’d have thought Salzburg, Chambery or Innsbruck would have come first though.

[DC3 Dave]

In effect EZY have swapped over STN-SOF and SEN-LYS for SEN-SOF and STN-LYS.

I didnt see this coming but an interesting route. I’d have thought Salzburg, Chambery or Innsbruck would have come first though.

Perhaps a limited look to see if there's potential in a destination in Wizz territory, given they are unlikely to turn up at SEN anytime soon. If it does ok EZY may prefer trying one or two others without the competition faced at STN from FR.

[mikkie4]

is there much of a call for sofia as a summer destination?

[SARF]

I always thought easy might have a pop at Salzburg from Sen during the ski season
early flights on sat, and weds for the short breaks as well

[AirportPlanner1]

Perhaps a limited look to see if there's potential in a destination in Wizz territory, given they are unlikely to turn up at SEN anytime soon. If it does ok EZY may prefer trying one or two others without the competition faced at STN from FR.

No chance. It’s a ski route that will be gone before April is out. Nothing more.

[AirportPlanner1]

is there much of a call for sofia as a summer destination?

Not particularly. It’s a good few hours from the beaches and gets really quite hot. It’s probably the least interesting of the former Communist capitals, stag trips taking advantage of its cheapness being it’s best selling point. It’s also a good seven hour round trip, time that can much more profitably be used heading off to Malaga etc.

[ericlday]

Originally Posted by mikkie4 https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599766-southend-2-a-76.html#post10166611)is there much of a call for sofia as a summer destination?Well Wizzair have 17 per week in summer from Luton, so make your own mind up on the answer

[DC3 Dave]

No chance. It’s a ski route that will be gone before April is out. Nothing more.


I'm sure you're right. But as you said yourself there are nearer ski destinations that could have been chosen. Just thought it's interesting EZY decided on eastern Europe.

[Double Hydco]

Just for some context, the SOF route started as a year round service from STN. I think that may have lasted one or two years before it became winter only.

[Tagron]

And for some more context, the published schedule indicates the last flight on sale as March 20, there being no planned service on March 24 which is the last day of the W18 schedule. Of course this could change as often happens, but that is the picture as it appears right now.

[Civagiarn]

Not particularly. It’s a good few hours from the beaches and gets really quite hot. It’s probably the least interesting of the former Communist capitals, stag trips taking advantage of its cheapness being it’s best selling point. It’s also a good seven hour round trip, time that can much more profitably be used heading off to Malaga etc.

​​​​​I couldn't disagree with you more. The city itself might not be the most interesting, but there are so many things to do in western and central Bulgaria. The Belogradhik fortress, Melnik, Veliko Turnovo, Koprivshtitsa, Rila Monastery, Velingrad, the rose valley etc. I don't think this will be a year round destination as I think Sofia is overserved, but there's so much more to Bulgaria than just Ski and beach resorts. The landscape becomes remarkably lush from May until September, there are very high quality, cheap hotels and a lot of sites to see. It's really worth travellling around.

[AirportPlanner1]

Civagiarn - yes, I know. That side of things doesn’t have mass appeal though, hence my comment about beaches. I’ve corrected another poster’s beliefs on Romania in a different thread, and been to Macedonia. It’s a part of the world Brits aren’t ready for.

[Civagiarn]

Bulgaria is a lot better equipped for tourism across the country compared with Fyrom and Romania, so of course the route has potential for year round services, but I think Sofia is currently overserved from London.

[SEN Observer]

I see Air Malta cancelled today. Anyone know why? Not lack of passengers I hope.

[tophat27dt]

I see Air Malta cancelled today. Anyone know why? Not lack of passengers I hope.
I understand most flights are full or almost full. I wonder what happened to all the pax today

[Expressflight]

I see Air Malta cancelled today. Anyone know why? Not lack of passengers I hope.
Not lack of passengers but a lack of aircraft. Apparently they are one A320 short on the fleet with that aircraft being due shortly. They have been cancelling a few flights around their network to cope with this. One LGW-MLA was cancelled a few days ago for example. From what I understand they are quite good at arranging alternatives in these situations to try to keep pax disgruntlement to a minimum.

[compton3bravo]

Italian ATC strike today wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it? Good excuse though if short of aircraft.

[asdf1234]

The report and accounts were published today for Stobart Group. An interesting target of 2m pax by February 2019 has been set with the longer term target of 5m pax by 2022/23.

[Barling Magna]

2m by February 2019 looks unlikely! Unless there's a major programme of ski flights about to be released, which is also unlikely.

[flight_mode]

Maybe Powdair 2.0 are going to base their 5 777s at SEN?

Sorry I couldn't help myself. :}

[tophat27dt]

Maybe Powdair 2.0 are going to base their 5 777s at SEN?

Sorry I couldn't help myself. :}
Not funny at all.

[DC3 Dave]

Standard E-edition (http://standardonline.newspaperdirect.com/epaper/iphone/homepage.aspx#_articlebf2896e0-2fd7-4a9a-8d3b-3b86ff09c29d/waarticlebf2896e0-2fd7-4a9a-8d3b-3b86ff09c29d/bf2896e0-2fd7-4a9a-8d3b-3b86ff09c29d/2/true)

[SEN Observer]

Expressflight.......Thanks for the info regarding the Air Malta cancellation on June 8th. Suddenly realised that I hadn't thanked you. Very remiss of me!

[Breathe]

Does anyone have any info/hypothesis as to why EDI didn't work from here with U2?

I did read an article recently, where the CEO or MD of the airport said he would like to add EDI to the list of destinations when flybe started flights to GLA.

[AirportPlanner1]

Does anyone have any info/hypothesis as to why EDI didn't work from here with U2?

I did read an article recently, where the CEO or MD of the airport said he would like to add EDI to the list of destinations when flybe started flights to GLA.

The original midday schedule was packed on Fridays and Sundays but incredibly quiet midweek. The revised schedule saw it leave SEN very early some days and get back very late on others, too early or too late for trains, and the very light loads on the am northbound and the pm southbound reflected that. The reverse loads on those days were much better. BFS had the same problem.

Essentially it failed because it didn’t have the frequency to meet to the needs of business travellers, was hamstrung by lack of transport options which reduced it to an Essex service rather than a London one and struggled to attract enough takers for leisure travel beyond the weekend.

[ericlday]

What are the overnight B/J traffic figures like so far this month ?

[southern duel]

Yes the runway could be grooved however it is more useful when the runway in cambered and made up of marshall ashpalt so that the water runs off towards the hard shoulders. On a flat runway the water would not have anywhere to go. I am not sure whether SEN is cambered and also the amount of repairs that may have been carried out over the years may mean grooving is not the best option as it will damage the surface.
You may also need drainage facilities on the hard shoulders to take the water away otherwise you may get ponding in that location. which may also in turn attract birds .
Grooves tend to collect rubber especially in the TDZ areas. This lessens the braking action significantly so you will need regular maintenance surveys ( monthly griptester results) and then rubber removal which is not cheap and the specialist equipment tends to be shared between the bigger airports around london. The requirements on friction testing is laid down in CAA documentation.

[Planespeaking]

On another forum a tweet has been copied stating that Ryanair will be making an announcement today about commencing services from SEN.

[tartan 201]

On another forum a tweet has been copied stating that Ryanair will be making an announcement today about commencing services from SEN.
New base:
http://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/london/STOB/share-news/Stobart-Group-Limited-London-Southend-Airport-agre/77653702?adw=1126416

[Bee Rexit]

Ryanair announces it will be flying from Southend | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16287251.ryanair-announces-it-will-be-flying-from-southend/)

[rowly6339]

13 routes from Ryanair from SEN 55 weekly flights from summer 2019

[BA318]

13 new routes: Alicante (5 wkly), Barcelona Reus (2 wkly), Bilbao (4 wkly), Brest (2 wkly), Corfu (2 wkly), Cluj (3 wkly), Dublin (2 daily), Faro (5 wkly), Kosice (3 wkly),

Malaga (5 wkly), Milan Bergamo (4 wkly), Palma (4 wkly) & Venice (4 wkly)

I wonder if we'll see Flybe (Stobart) change some routes now these have been announced. 3 based aircraft is good for SEN though.

[tws123]

13 new routes: Alicante (5 weekly), Barcelona Reus (2 weekly), Bilbao (4 weekly), Brest (2 weekly), Corfu (2 weekly), Cluj (3 weekly), Dublin (2 daily), Faro (5 weekly), Kosice (3 weekly), Malaga (5 weekly), Milan Bergamo (4 weekly), Palma (4 weekly) & Venice (4 weekly).

[brian_dromey]

Alicante, Barcelona Reus, Bilbao, Brest, Corfu, Cluj, Dublin, Faro, Kosice, Malaga, Milan Bergamo, Palma and Venice.

I wonder if SEN might be an early user of the MAX? The runway performance should be improved over the standard 738s FR have.

I wonder what what this means for easyJet and Stobar Air at SEN, hopefully they will still continue to see opportunity.

[LTNman]

Great news for SEN but Ryanair don't often make great partners.

[DC3 Dave]

If FR are going to operate 738's from SEN that could be a real game changer for the airport.

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

Now they must bring in Hornby to operate a proper railway with early arrivals and late departures. The disgrace of a line that the airport has been putting up with since easyJet arrived must have cost the airline and the airport untold passengers. The airport would be further ahead than it is now had it not been for Network Fail. In fact, I believe I said something a few years ago that there were those on the railway that wanted the airport station to fail (and thus the airport) as they were hot under the collar that anybody was permitted to run a private station on the network.

[EIFFS]

Well it’s shorter than BHD so I would guess they will be restricted payload wise for the med and the max 200 is no better with an extra 11 seats.

[compton3bravo]

It will be interesting to see what easyJet do. Quite a few duplication of routes. Did I hear correctly some time ago Ryanair were not going to expand in the UK due to Brexit, I must have misheard it!

[SEN Observer]

They're hardly likely to sign up for five years unless they're confident they can make a go of it. Didn't someone say a while ago that they were looking at the airbus? Perhaps we won't see their 738s. Very interesting to see how it develops over the coming months.

[wetlanding]

They could use there resently aquired SFP 737/800 I think they could operate from SEN without any problem?

[LTNman]

It will be interesting to see what easyJet do. Quite a few duplication of routes. Did I hear correctly some time ago Ryanair were not going to expand in the UK due to Brexit, I must have misheard it!

If Luton is anything to go by when Ryanair compete on a route Easyjet pulls it. Southend might be the winner today but they risk losing easyjet.

I was also thinking the same about Ryanair and their Brexit threat. Just shows that Ryanair is all huff and puff and full of bull.

[Tagron]

The Short Field Package would be essential for 738 operations into SEN. The SFP is optional on the -800 but apparently standard on the Max. Wetlanding, do you have any further information about FR acquisition of 800SFPs, how many, and when ?
My (very) approximate estimate (trying to work with published data) is that the 800SFP would offer similar full payload range possibilities out of SEN to an A320.
Landing performance has always been the problem with the -800 at SEN. The SFP appears to address this issue, though the treatment of wet runway data might still be a consideration - hence perhaps recent comments about grooving the SEN runway ?

[SWBKCB]

I was also thinking the same about Ryanair and their Brexit threat. Just shows that Ryanair is all huff and puff and full of bull.

The Stobart statement says
This five-year agreement, extendable to ten, and agreed on our standard commercial terms...

So, depends on the nature of the contract and who's taking the risk.

The Stobart statement also says:
As a result, Ryanair will operate three planes out of Stobart Group's London Southend Airport from Summer 2019, providing 13 routes to eight European countries, and will include six new destinations.

Can somebody summarise where the crossover with the current Easy and Stobart routes is?

[asdf1234]

Can somebody summarise where the crossover with the current Easy and Stobart routes is?

Duplicate routes are Alicante, Barcelona, Dublin, Faro, Malaga and Mallorca. Some might say that the FR flight to Brest competes with the existing flight to Rennes. 50% of the new flights are competing head to head with existing flights run by EZY (not a scientific fact - just my quick calculations). Price war looming or EZY decamping? Whilst I hope FR are paying the going rate to be at SEN (i.e. where the airport makes money direct from the airline for landing and handling) and not just from the additional pax footfall, if they replace 1m EZY pax with 1m FR pax, how are they going to grow pax numbers?

[mudcity]

unbelievable -the same people who were saying SEN was doing nothing to attract new airlines are now moaning about the RYR announcement!
yes there will be competition on some routes but don’t underestimate the power of the RYR brand overseas to generate pax
its great news for the airport and whilst RYR will have a great commercial agreement it will still generate revenue and get the concept of SEN as a viable departure- arrival point out there

[ErwinFCG]

I think the overlap is as follows:

Alicante 5x weekly (Easyjet daily)
Bergamo 4x weekly (Flybe 4x weekly to Milan-Malpensa)
Bilbao 4x weekly
Brest 2x weekly (Flybe 8x weekly to Rennes, but the distance RNS-BES is 240 km)
Cluj-Napoca 3x weekly
Dublin 2x daily (Flybe 3x daily)
Faro 5x weekly (Easyjet 10x weekly)
Kosice 3x weekly
Malaga 5x weekly (Easyjet 1x daily)
Palma de Mallorca 4x weekly (Easyjet 1x daily)
Venice 4x weekly
Corfu 2x weekly
Reus 2x weekly (Easyjet 4x weekly to Barcelona El Prat)


Competition for Easyjet on 5 routes, but on all of them Easyjet still has a majority of flights. And these are just five out of the 20 Easyjet routes at Southend, so I think there is not immediately much trouble for them.

[HeliAl]

Interesting decision by the Stobart team again!
How many times have you heard “ I’m Not flying Ryanair again!”.Your 1m footfall might even drop by several thousand as people move with Easyjet if they decide to leave!!
Pax reduction on Stobart flights ( loss of income )
An airport deal by Ryanair (There will be something free in it: Landing Fees,Handling, Over night parking!.)
Winner? Or Loser?i
I know where my money lays.

[Falcon666]

EasyJet signed a ten year deal in 2011, starting a base in 2012 so that will take them to 2021.
(i am not aware if any of that has changed during the contract) so think it unlikely much will change short term.
Personally I think the talk of a Wizz base would have been a better fit for SEN with minimal overlapping of routes.
Good news for SEN now, only time will tell what happens in the mid term

[LTNman]

The Stobart statement saysQuote:This five-year agreement, extendable to ten, and agreed on our standard commercial terms...

That seems full of bull, more likely that SEN is paying Ryanair as they hope to get their money back on car parking etc.

It will be interesting to see how SEN rates in the Which passenger survey as passenger numbers increase? No more number one I am guessing not that it will bother Stobart.

[Planespeaking]

That seems full of bull, more likely that SEN is paying Ryanair as they hope to get their money back on car parking etc.

It will be interesting to see how SEN rates in the Which passenger survey as passenger numbers increase? No more number one I am guessing not that it will bother Stobart.

Not 'well done SEN'! Just : We can't wait until you come down to LTN's level. You may be be proved right in the long term, however it would be good to hear a bit of American ' go for it' and good luck. But then this is Britain!

[toon22]

This is a game changer for SEN. Where else were they going to get 1m passengers a year from? Look like the scarcity of slots in the London system paid dividends sooner than we might have thought.

[LTNman]

It is absolutely a game changer for SEN. So what is Southend's existing capacity?

[asdf1234]

With the existing cap on ATMs I think the airport is constrained by a capacity of circa 10m pax. As the new FR deal is projected to increase pax numbers to 5m I can see no capacity issues. Yes the terminal might get crowded and pax might not rate their experience as highly as they do now, but that won't affect the number of pax using SEN. If the flights are there at the right price, the pax will come. After all, just look at Luton, a miserable pax experience but fully utilised by 18m pax.

Hats off to SEN for attracting FR. Fingers crossed it works out for the airport and the wider Group who absolutely need the Aviation division to stop being a drain on Group funds.

[JTSB]

The Short Field Package would be essential for 738 operations into SEN. The SFP is optional on the -800 but apparently standard on the Max. Wetlanding, do you have any further information about FR acquisition of 800SFPs, how many, and when ?
My (very) approximate estimate (trying to work with published data) is that the 800SFP would offer similar full payload range possibilities out of SEN to an A320.
Landing performance has always been the problem with the -800 at SEN. The SFP appears to address this issue, though the treatment of wet runway data might still be a consideration - hence perhaps recent comments about grooving the SEN runway ?


It's often been said that 738s are a no-go at SEN for year-round profitable operation. Surely they are more likely to be using their new purchases from Laudamotion?:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-laudamotion-m-a-ryanair-airbus-analys/boeing-loyalist-ryanair-to-fly-first-airbus-with-austria-deal-idUSKBN1GY2KF

[Tagron]

JTSB

Often said but not necessarily completely accurate. There is a significant difference in the runway performance of the SFP compared with the "standard" 738. The majority of European 738s are the standard model, certainly in the case of the UK operators - I suspect there may be few SFPs in Europe so people may have tended to discount this possibility.

But you may be right about the A320. It was the report that FR had recently acquired SFPs that grabbed my attention.

[compton3bravo]

Am I correct in thnking that Southend is not CATIIIB equipped. Although the airport has a pretty good weather record there are times when it is not like all other airports. Diversions to any airport's which will take them and not noise restrained.

[_aax1]

Fair play to SEN and Stobart, really good news for jobs, the local economy and the airport.

Really interesting mix of routes. Bilbao, Brest, Cluj and Kosice not served anywhere else on the Ryanair network, while Venice (main) is not served from STN.

Alicante, Faro, Malaga and Palma competition is good news, I've always said the prices on the sun routes out of SEN are mad high. Corfu will do well, too.

Can't really see this affecting EZY too much, the overlap in routes are only on the key money spinner sun routes. I can imagine the end is in sight of the BE MXP and DUB though.

The airport really need to invest in better shopping and even more so on eating within the terminal in my opinion to generate income from the increase pax.

[DC3 Dave]

The airport really need to invest in better shopping and even more so on eating within the terminal in my opinion to generate income from the increase pax.

New restaurants and bars heading to airport | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16242871.new-restaurants-and-bars-heading-to-airport/?ref=mr&lp=6)

It's all in hand. Hopefully, the extensions either side of the terminal will now go ahead.

[LTNman]

With the existing cap on ATMs I think the airport is constrained by a capacity of circa 10m pax. As the new FR deal is projected to increase pax numbers to 5m I can see no capacity issues. Yes the terminal might get crowded and pax might not rate their experience as highly as they do now, but that won't affect the number of pax using SEN. If the flights are there at the right price, the pax will come. After all, just look at Luton, a miserable pax experience but fully utilised by 18m pax.
.

So is that what everyone here wants. Just pile them in and mimic Luton with a race to the bottom, has no one heard of a balance? How will the local roads cope? It has always struck me that the airport is in the middle of a built up area so the locals can look forward to gridlocked streets. Has SEN got room for a parallel taxiway?

[Binder]

So ex Ryanair employee and Stobart boss Warwick Brady stuffs one up his previous employer (EZY) from whom he got the boot!

Feeling smug no doubt.......

[Planespeaking]

So is that what everyone here wants. Just pile them in and mimic Luton with a race to the bottom, has no one heard of a balance? How will the local roads cope? It has always struck me that the airport is in the middle of a built up area so the locals can look forward to gridlocked streets.

As I posted earlier to another one of your comments. You may well be right, however for once look on the bright side. I know it's not your beloved LTN, nor will it ever be because SEN does not have the local infrastructure or capacity, but I do hope that Stobart/ Southend Corporation will realise that and take the necessary choices long before they allow it to turn into the third world shambles reported about LTN on numerous aviation and travel forums.

[Buster the Bear]

Brilliant news for Southend and one can only hope Stobart do make some money out of the operation as the incentives to Ryanair would have been large. Maybe that is the background to the boardroom arguments?

[AirportPlanner1]

To suggest there is overlap between Reus and Barcelona is disingenuous, the amount of people using the former for the latter will be very small and especially at 2x weekly. Really of course it is for the Costa Dorada, and should do somewhat better than Stobart’s attempt last year. Similarly for Brest and Rennes - far too far apart and the frequency (7-8x weekly v 2x weekly) doesn’t compare.

Dublin is quite clear cut, it’s unthinkable that Stobart would retain it. Milan less so - Malpensa and Bergamo are quite some distance apart plus the former is convenient for Como whereas the latter is close to Iseo and Garda. Prague is staying for now despite EZY coming onto it.

I do wonder what will happen to the 3rd Stobart E195 when DUB is given up as I expect it to be. There are limited alternatives from SEN other than perhaps EDI if they can get permission to do it. Perhaps send it up to Carlisle to do some sunshine routes?

[cornishsimon]

Surely FR and BE/STK serve a different market for DUB. ?

i can see STK continue to operate the route alongside FR due to the BE/EI codeshare/interline agreement


cs

[fatmed]

ezpress flight, you are unusually quiet on this development. You OK ? 😀

[tophat27dt]

ezpress flight, you are unusually quiet on this development. You OK ? 😀
Maybe he's on holiday on a remote beach with no free WiFi.

[tophat27dt]

With the existing cap on ATMs I think the airport is constrained by a capacity of circa 10m pax. As the new FR deal is projected to increase pax numbers to 5m I can see no capacity issues. Yes the terminal might get crowded and pax might not rate their experience as highly as they do now, but that won't affect the number of pax using SEN. If the flights are there at the right price, the pax will come. After all, just look at Luton, a miserable pax experience but fully utilised by 18m pax.

Hats off to SEN for attracting FR. Fingers crossed it works out for the airport and the wider Group who absolutely need the Aviation division to stop being a drain on Group funds.

I agree entirely!

[compton3bravo]

Send an E195 to Carlisle to do sunshine routes - I am completely lost for words!

[tophat27dt]

Send an E195 to Carlisle to do sunshine routes - I am completely lost for words!
I bet he wasn't being serious?

[mik3bravo]

13 new routes: Alicante (5 wkly), Barcelona Reus (2 wkly), Bilbao (4 wkly), Brest (2 wkly), Corfu (2 wkly), Cluj (3 wkly), Dublin (2 daily), Faro (5 wkly), Kosice (3 wkly),

Malaga (5 wkly), Milan Bergamo (4 wkly), Palma (4 wkly) & Venice (4 wkly)

I wonder if we'll see Flybe (Stobart) change some routes now these have been announced. 3 based aircraft is good for SEN though.

The DUB (2 daily) will impact Flybe on that route but not sure there is demand to help both carriers operate the route simultaneously. Schedule, total ticket price, and overall customer service and experience will be significantly important.

[Falcon666]

With the existing cap on ATMs I think the airport is constrained by a capacity of circa 10m pax. As the new FR deal is projected to increase pax numbers to 5m I can see no capacity issues. Yes the terminal might get crowded and pax might not rate their experience as highly as they do now, but that won't affect the number of pax using SEN. If the flights are there at the right price, the pax will come. After all, just look at Luton, a miserable pax experience but fully utilised by 18m pax.

Hats off to SEN for attracting FR. Fingers crossed it works out for the airport and the wider Group who absolutely need the Aviation division to stop being a drain on Group funds.

Apologies if I am not reading this correctly but,
The FR deal appears to be 5 Million Pax over five years, i.e. 1 MIllion per year so as such it isn't projected to increase pax to 5 Million , only help SEN achieve that figure.
SEN should reach over 2 Million by 2019/2020 but presumably they are still going to need much more to get to 5 Mil?

Interesting times ahead at boardroom level for Stobart, will watch closely!

[mik3bravo]

I wonder what the surrounding residential property market prices might do as air traffic volumes begin to rachet upwards? One to track.

[fatmed]

I wonder if easy will remove the 4th jet again now this announcement has been made ?

[Planespeaking]

I wonder what the surrounding residential property market prices might do as air traffic volumes begin to rachet upwards? One to track.

It is possible they may firm up. Airports generate employment and therefore a demand for homes. Ryanair state they will create 750 jobs, we shall see. There are plenty of airport sustained properties around west London, Gatwick and even Stansted. Should one of those airports close I think the collapse of employment would greatly outweigh the peace and quiet
effect on property values.

[mikkie4]

you only have to look at the property prices in BISHOP STORTFORD to see what a busy airport like STANSTED can do to house prices ( rental & sales )

[DC3 Dave]

The DUB (2 daily) will impact Flybe on that route but not sure there is demand to help both carriers operate the route simultaneously. Schedule, total ticket price, and overall customer service and experience will be significantly important.

What other airport could offer 100,000 pax pa as a golden hello? And it's not necessarily damaging to Stobart, remembering the reason they expanded their Flybe franchise so dramatically was to move SEN forward, which was stagnating at the time with a total lack of success attracting new operators.

[SEN Observer]

If an E195 does become available.........Scandinavian routes? Billund used to be ok. I heard at the time that Maersk only upped sticks and left because they were fed up with Southend council promising this, that and the other in the way of improvements with nothing actually materialising. Don't know if that's correct but it's what I heard. Surely there are plenty of Scandinavian routes worth trying?

[Barling Magna]

Southend used to be full of Scandinavian airliners flying in from Malmo and Oslo especially - Fred Olsen, BRAATHENS, Sterling, Polaris and many more. No reason why it can't be again.

[tophat27dt]

Southend used to be full of Scandinavian airliners flying in from Malmo and Oslo especially - Fred Olsen, BRAATHENS, Sterling, Polaris and many more. No reason why it can't be again.
Happy Days !!

[Barling Magna]

LOT Polish Airlines have announced a new service into LCY from Warsaw. I'd have thought this could have been a useful airline for SEN to court.

[AirportPlanner1]

LOT Polish Airlines have announced a new service into LCY from Warsaw. I'd have thought this could have been a useful airline for SEN to court.

Why? The convenience of LCY is the route’s USP, LO can’t compete on price with Wizz/Ryanair.

[Barling Magna]

True, Wizz Air would have been a better match, but Warsaw and other Polish destinations are missing from SEN's network at the moment. No reason why a legacy airline can't survive alongside lo-co airlines provided they choose their destinations carefully.

[Cyrano]

Former CEO Andrew Tinkler fired from Stobart board, company to launch legal proceedings "imminently": City AM (http://www.cityam.com/287583/former-ceo-andrew-tinkler-fired-stobart-board)

[asdf1234]

Apologies if I am not reading this correctly but,
The FR deal appears to be 5 Million Pax over five years, i.e. 1 MIllion per year so as such it isn't projected to increase pax to 5 Million , only help SEN achieve that figure.
SEN should reach over 2 Million by 2019/2020 but presumably they are still going to need much more to get to 5 Mil?

Interesting times ahead at boardroom level for Stobart, will watch closely!

Thank you for pointing that out. FR fights will generate up to 1m pax per annum starting summer 2019. Stobart have said that they expect 2m pax by Feb 2019 so maybe there is another carrier announcement imminent?

[asdf1234]

As reported earlier here is the text of the board announcement:

Board change

The Company announces that, following the receipt of comprehensive legal advice, it has today served notice on Andrew Tinkler, summarily terminating his employment with the Stobart Group. Mr Tinkler will cease to be a director with effect from today's date.

The Company will also be issuing legal proceedings imminently against Mr Tinkler for, amongst other things, breach of contract and breach of fiduciary duty.

The Company will be writing to shareholders shortly to provide them with further information on the situation, including its concerns that Mr Tinkler and his associates are attempting to secure control of the Company.

Warwick Brady, CEO of Stobart Group, said: "Mr Tinkler's actions, particularly in recent days, have threatened to destabilise the Company and severely impacted my ability and that of my team to manage the business on a day to day basis and deliver the agreed strategy. This is against the interests of all of our shareholders."

Seems unfair that the directors can act against the founder of the company in such a callous way however it is perfectly legal for them to do so. Will this affect the airport? Who knows?

[rowly6339]

As reported earlier here is the text of the board announcement:

Board change

The Company announces that, following the receipt of comprehensive legal advice, it has today served notice on Andrew Tinkler, summarily terminating his employment with the Stobart Group. Mr Tinkler will cease to be a director with effect from today's date.

The Company will also be issuing legal proceedings imminently against Mr Tinkler for, amongst other things, breach of contract and breach of fiduciary duty.

The Company will be writing to shareholders shortly to provide them with further information on the situation, including its concerns that Mr Tinkler and his associates are attempting to secure control of the Company.

Warwick Brady, CEO of Stobart Group, said: "Mr Tinkler's actions, particularly in recent days, have threatened to destabilise the Company and severely impacted my ability and that of my team to manage the business on a day to day basis and deliver the agreed strategy. This is against the interests of all of our shareholders."

Seems unfair that the directors can act against the founder of the company in such a callous way however it is perfectly legal for them to do so. Will this affect the airport? Who knows?

How exactly is it unfair to act against him if as they have said he is indeed breaking rules? Just because he has been there a while doesn't mean he is untouchable or immune from repercussions. All in all the share price rose on this news as soon as it was released so can only be good for the airline surely.

[Planespeaking]

As reported earlier here is the text of the board announcement:

Board change

The Company announces that, following the receipt of comprehensive legal advice, it has today served notice on Andrew Tinkler, summarily terminating his employment with the Stobart Group. Mr Tinkler will cease to be a director with effect from today's date.

The Company will also be issuing legal proceedings imminently against Mr Tinkler for, amongst other things, breach of contract and breach of fiduciary duty.

The Company will be writing to shareholders shortly to provide them with further information on the situation, including its concerns that Mr Tinkler and his associates are attempting to secure control of the Company.

Warwick Brady, CEO of Stobart Group, said: "Mr Tinkler's actions, particularly in recent days, have threatened to destabilise the Company and severely impacted my ability and that of my team to manage the business on a day to day basis and deliver the agreed strategy. This is against the interests of all of our shareholders."

Seems unfair that the directors can act against the founder of the company in such a callous way however it is perfectly legal for them to do so. Will this affect the airport? Who knows?

Fairness doesn't come into it, but legality does. Once this is resolved then perhaps Stobart will be perceived by the market and shareholders as less than a cowboy outfit and more a serious multi million pound business.

[asdf1234]

Fairness doesn't come into it, but legality does. Once this is resolved then perhaps Stobart will be perceived by the market and shareholders as less than a cowboy outfit and more a serious multi million pound business.


Andrew Tinkler grew the business from nothing, saw the potential at Southend and bet the farm on it. The current directors took zero risk and enjoyed their pay-day and now turn on their benfactor. I've seen it all too many times previously and yes, it is legal, and yes, it has the backing of some shareholders. But do the current directors really believe they have what it takes to stand up to Ryanair and O'Leary once they start making their demands? Take alook at Prestwick to see what FR can do to an airport! Tinkler has his role and they are foolish to oust him and this stage of the company's growth.

[Heathrow Harry]

If you are a Director of a company you are legally obliged to look after the shareholders and listen to them

if you want total power don't have shareholders -simple

far too many cases of directors/founders running amok with other people's money

[_aax1]

Just a question about FR Ops, will SEN be the shortest runway FR operate from when they launch? Can they operate a full payload of 189 pax in the summer with the 737?

[snn20]

"Campaigner calls for airport to close" the guys deluded....
Campaigner calls for airport to close | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16291138.campaigner-calls-for-airport-to-close/)

[flight_mode]

Andrew Tinkler grew the business from nothing......
And that is the problem. Andrew did everything right and built a hugely successful business, then he floated it off and it was no longer his business, something he never accepted. He's clashed with shareholders, board members, brokers, bankers and advisors repeatedly over the years. He's stamped his feet and thrown his toys out many times but this time it's backfired on him.

His dismissal and the FR news may well be a turning point in SEN's fortunes.... I hope so.

[inOban]

Rather like Stelios and Easyjet.

[DC3 Dave]

Fairness doesn't come into it, but legality does. Once this is resolved then perhaps Stobart will be perceived by the market and shareholders as less than a cowboy outfit and more a serious multi million pound business.






Quite surprised to read your view given your stated admiration of a "Go for it and good luck" approach to business. Andrew Tinkler would share your approach, he is a self made man and very much an entrepreneur.

I don't know the rights and wrongs of the current situation at Stobart, but those who know how to conduct a board meeting and fill in tax forms are not in short supply. Neither, sadly, are the likes of Warwick Brady who speak so well of themselves and oh so naturally take full credit for the risks taken by others.

Without a fool / genius / idiot / visionary like Andrew Tinkler Southend Airport would by now be a housing estate, possibly with homage paid with street names like Laker Lane and Dakota Drive.

​

[tophat27dt]

Just a question about FR Ops, will SEN be the shortest runway FR operate from when they launch? Can they operate a full payload of 189 pax in the summer with the 737?
Yes. They will only operate the Maxis from SEN and subject to grooving the runway surface.

[mik3bravo]

Yes. They will only operate the Maxis from SEN and subject to grooving the runway surface.

Is that the official word?

Thought the following may be a consideration factor:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-laudamotion-m-a-ryanair-airbus-analys/boeing-loyalist-ryanair-to-
fly-first-airbus-with-austria-deal-idUSKBN1GY2KF (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-laudamotion-m-a-ryanair-airbus-analys/boeing-loyalist-ryanair-to-fly-first-airbus-with-austria-deal-idUSKBN1GY2KF)

But Chief Executive Michael O’Leary is starting small with Airbus, although he said he had harbored aspirations to develop an Airbus fleet at Ryanair for “some years”.

[SWBKCB]

Is that the official word?

Thought the following may be a consideration factor:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-laudamotion-m-a-ryanair-airbus-analys/boeing-loyalist-ryanair-to-fly-first-airbus-with-austria-deal-idUSKBN1GY2KF

Are there any indications from Ryanair that the Laudamotion Airbus will by used on anything other than Laaudamotion operations?

And aren't Ryanair's MAX's the 200 seat version? :eek:

[TCAS FAN]

With all this talk of runway grooving, presumably to minimise the occasions that the runway surface is reported "wet" or worse, thereby avoiding the weight penalties with a restricted LDA/TORA, has it been established whether the runway is cambered? If not, and it either has a crosfall or is flat, grooving is not going to be as effective as intended. When SOU had their runway resurfaced they too went for the grooving option for the same reasons, problem was/is that they have a crosfall with a drainage gully on one side. This form of drainage has not been able to cope and water backs up in the grooves resulting invariably in the runway being reported "wet".

[EI-BUD]

Morning All,

wetlanding is right, Ryanair has recently accepted 738 examples with SFP. I must check the register to see if there is any reference to them.

let's not forget they have a 737-700 on hand, and if they have to in an extreme they can call on Lauda to assist. They'll have flexibility with crew so if Lauda ever step in they'll not need to worry about moving crew around. All that may assume they are late receiving MAX, but I wouldn't have thought SEN be a priority for MAX. Who knows. We also know that Lauda has limited available units and Ryanair are doing some flying for them already (eg DUS AGP). Though they could asap ac around I.e. 3 x320 to SEN and FR put 3 x 738 @ DUS TXL etc

This is magic news for SEN, I have never doubted SEN would grow stringly, because London Airports are full, it was only a matter if time, Ryanair has of late been exclusively reliant on STN, and it is arguable as the biggest base they have limited bargaining power.

easyJet will hold firm. In my opinion, easyJet have been in the last year to 18 months , much more resilient in the face of Ryanair. FR cut an run in LGW BFS and surrendered the IAG slots. STN to GLA and EDU were not reinstated. Easyjet is strong and MOL recognises this and says as much. SEN is growing and besides FR have limited frequency.

stobart own both airport and airline, they'll have factored in DUB and MXP, a growing SEN is preferable to maintaining these routes, planes can be moved around, the airport can't... as for the deal, they'll have made a very significant contribution and this will be structured in the form of low or no landing fees on the new routes, and the same rate as easyJet on the overlapping routes.

the prize Ryanair will bring (and this will be tested on the non sun belt routes) is whether they can grow the brand of SEN abroad , particularly on Dublin, Cluj, Kosice, Milan and Venice. The other big prize is the parking and retail outlets. Net net a big plus. Also from a Ryanair perspective sends a small signal to STN... airlines like Blueair and Wizz get a message very clearly that Ryanair are in town on routes where they would ideally frequent, so stay away. Corfu is a really clever route choice, being a top UK holiday destination, and one that SEN enjoyed in times long gone!

[inOban]

FR did reinstate EDI and I think Glasgow from STN.

[virginblue]

Flew from SEN for the first time since the terminal expansion. A FR base certainly requires a good amount of additional terminal space. Although I departed at a relatively quiet period of the day, I assume the place is already pretty crowded in the morning nowadays when the overnighting aircraft depart. So for three 200 seat aircraft and potential to grow serious expansion is certainly on the cards - what is the talk at the moment? Something like 50 percent additional space in departures or even more?

I wish SEN the best of luck. For departing from London, I avoid the larger London airports like the plague and usually travel via LCY. SEN is a similarily enjoyable experience and I hope it will be able to keep much of its small airport feel and advantages.

[tophat27dt]

Flew from SEN for the first time since the terminal expansion. A FR base certainly requires a good amount of additional terminal space. Although I departed at a relatively quiet period of the day, I assume the place is already pretty crowded in the morning nowadays when the overnighting aircraft depart. So for three 200 seat aircraft and potential to grow serious expansion is certainly on the cards - what is the talk at the moment? Something like 50 percent additional space in departures or even more?

I wish SEN the best of luck. For departing from London, I avoid the larger London airports like the plague and usually travel via LCY. SEN is a similarily enjoyable experience and I hope it will be able to keep much of its small airport feel and advantages.
Yes indeed. Hopefully the schedules, when released, will show the early departures to be staggered between the quieter hours from 0730-0900. Are there any plans to build a multi-storey car park on the airport? I doubt if the existing will be large enough.

[pamann]

The schedules for FR are out as their Southend flights are bookable on the FR app. Seat plan is as per standard 737-800 when I had a look.

[AirportPlanner1]

I actually don’t find the morning peak to be bad at all. It was much more crowded before the extension on the occasions all three EZY were in at the same time, and there was just the cafe and smallish upstairs bar. The latter has been moved and extended, the former is still there for now but does admittedly get long queues, plus there’s the additional Bourgee. There always seem to be seats available. It is a far cry from the peak experience at STN/LTN.

I also find that they board the first couple of EZY plus BE to DUB early so by about 06:25 the place quietens considerably. Then MAN boards (admittedly that’s just 25-30 people), after that all you’re left with is the EZY to AMS and the later BE which leaves circa 07:30.

I’d say they could cope with another departure around 06:30 and anything after 07:00 would be no trouble at all. It might be tight if two or more FRs left before 07:00 assuming the current EZY schedule remained the same.

[Bee Rexit]

Yes indeed. Hopefully the schedules, when released, will show the early departures to be staggered between the quieter hours from 0730-0900. Are there any plans to build a multi-storey car park on the airport? I doubt if the existing will be large enough.
They acquired what is known locally as "The old access car park" a few years ago which sits just the other side of Warners Bridge from the airport, however I believe they can only use it as a park and ride! It still needs a fair bit of work to bring it back up to scratch.

[daz211]

Let me start by saying I’m very pleased Southend have gained a big airline, I truly am so don’t shoot me.

I'm dubious as to why Ryanair have chosen a base at Southend ( I said don’t shoot me ) !
knowing Ryanair, and trust me I do, I was working closely with them when they first started flying to to there first European destinations other than Ireland, I’m wondering if it’s to play off Stansted against Southend, pulling routes and aircraft from one to the other if a spat arises, just like Luton and Stansted have seen in the past, also the whole Airbus/Boeing thing has been around for years, just reiterating what I just said about playing one off against the other for a better deal. We also should not forget how Ryanair jumped on I think it was Copenhagen at Luton pushing Easyjet off the route or at least reducing it and the moving it to Stansted.

I might be totally barking up the wrong tree, but its one to keep an eye on, that’s all I’m saying.
And just again I’m not hating on Southend just trying to think logically.

[Musket90]

Maybe they are unable to acquire extra departure slots at Stansted during peak first wave.
On the runway grooving, the present surface is BBA which is designed to be ungrooved, so to groove it would mean another resurface with different mix which given the cost
s very unlikely.

[AirportPlanner1]

I think it’s quite telling they’ve chosen some routes that aren’t served from STN, and that can’t be served from overseas because they have no or limited operations there. This to me shouts lack of capacity. For all the talk of playing STN off against other airports, the reality is that if they did move aircraft 4,5 and 6 over the vacant slots and stands would be snapped up by Jet2, Primera or someone else.

This seems more like LTN mk II in terms of route mix, somewhere else of course they can’t expand at because there’s no capacity.

I’m not saying individual routes won’t shift around as has been seen between STN and LTN - Copenhagen and Malta for example started out at the latter - but I don’t imminently see the aircraft moving over

[tws123]

The Ryanair booking system currently shows a 195 seater aircraft, so surely that’s the 737 MAX 200?

[1sky]

The Ryanair booking system currently shows a 195 seater aircraft, so surely that’s the 737 MAX 200?

It’s 189 seats since there is no row 13. A standard 738.

[tophat27dt]

It’s 189 seats since there is no row 13. A standard 738.
If true, so much for the statements previously saying B738 can't operate from SEN with 188 pax and luggage.

[Planespeaking]

Quite an impressive photo taken this morning of SEN's apron and posted on Southend Airport Movement and Operations facebook page. It would seem the bizjet traffic is building rapidly and the investment made in the Stobart Jet Centre could be
paying dividends.

[mik3bravo]

Quite an impressive photo taken this morning of SEN's apron and posted on Southend Airport Movement and Operations facebook page. It would seem the bizjet traffic is building rapidly and the investment made in the Stobart Jet Centre could be
paying dividends.

Yep. I was on the redeye to DUB this morning and couldn't help but notice how packed the ramp was with numerous bizjets. The ramp' were crazy busy with EZY, STOB and Flybe too.

[Expressflight]

ezpress flight, you are unusually quiet on this development. You OK ? ��

Fine thanks but I've been in Dublin all week.

[tophat27dt]

Fine thanks but I've been in Dublin all week.
Welcome back! Lots happening this week.

[Expressflight]

On the runway grooving, the present surface is BBA which is designed to be ungrooved, so to groove it would mean another resurface with different mix which given the costs very unlikely.
Actually JER had a BBA surface laid which they decided to have grooved. This seems to have worked OK but I've heard suggestions that groove wear is more of a problem with BBA. Having said that I would expect SEN to re-profile the runway surface as TCAS FAN suggests and to groove the new surface. Otherwise I think that even the 737 MAX 200 would be excessively payload limited in its SEN operations. I cannot see any way that the existing 738 could be commercially viable at SEN, grooved runway or not.

[737aviator]

If true, so much for the statements previously saying B738 can't operate from SEN with 188 pax and luggage.

Thats going to depend on many other variables on the day mainly fuel load. All the new RYR deliveries for the last few months are 'SFP' 738s which give landing and takeoff performance improvements over the standard 'NG', potentially in the region of several tonnes on short runways with no terrain in the climb out.

In general though the runway is short and narrow which will reduce crosswind limits and there is no way any 737, NG or Max can take off at anywhere near MTOW due to the length.

[runwayman]

Yep. I was on the redeye to DUB this morning and couldn't help but notice how packed the ramp was with numerous bizjets. The ramp' were crazy busy with EZY, STOB and Flybe too.

The only reason there are so many biz jets at the moment are that Luton & Stansted have reached their night quotas between June-September it will probably go back to the normal level from October.

[Planespeaking]

The only reason there are so many biz jets at the moment are that Luton & Stansted have reached their night quotas between June-September it will probably go back to the normal level from October.
Possibly , but aren't the operators lucky SEN has the capacity for a London airport arrival and departure., otherwise it would be London's loss and a gain for Paris, Frankfurt or Amsterdam.

[southender]

Runwayman,

Let’s enjoy it until then.

With arrivals last night from Dubai, Los Angeles and Seattle, amongst others, there’s a very international feel about the place at the moment. The apron this morning was very impressive.

Stobart must be pleased with recent events.

[tophat27dt]

Runwayman,

Let’s enjoy it until then.

With arrivals last night from Dubai, Los Angeles and Seattle, amongst others, there’s a very international feel about the place at the moment. The apron this morning was very impressive.

Stobart must be pleased with recent events.
Absolutely. All good things might come to an end but enjoy them while you can.

[runwayman]

Absolutely. All good things might come to an end but enjoy them while you can.

Yes indeed DT we are used to that here as you well know!

[tophat27dt]

Yes indeed DT we are used to that here as you well know!
Yes I know. Hopefully you will pick up a few new customers who will make return visits. For the time being, I am interested to see what aircraft and payloads RYR will operate, and if that will affect any of the current flights by other operators. Take care.

[Barling Magna]

Surely they must be using the SFP variant?

[Expressflight]

Without doubt I would say.

[Planespeaking]

Without doubt I would say.
Welcome back Eflight your absence has been noted and your bonus points have been deducted... meanwhile back at SEN!!

[tophat27dt]

Surely they must be using the SFP variant?
Not all of the "experts" here seem to agree on this one!

[PDXCWL45]

Surely they must be using the SFP variant?
The seat maps have 195 seats. So possibly MAX 200?

[tophat27dt]

The seat maps have 195 seats. So possibly MAX 200?
But can it operate, for example, SEN to Corfu with 195 and luggage?

[tophat27dt]

Looking at the RYR flight times for next April onwards, I see most mornings all three aircraft depart between 0645 and 0715. The terminal will be heaving with people between 0500 and 0630 I think!

[pabely]

The ramp' were crazy busy with EZY, STOB and Flybe too.

So next year, with 3 x RYR 738s will SEN start having overnight parking issues as well? Will they have to start using stands 11+ which will eat into parking for Stobart Executive ?

[1sky]

The seat maps have 195 seats. So possibly MAX 200?

Posting this here for the second time: the seat maps have 189 seats.

No Max-200s are loaded in the Ryanair system.

[Planespeaking]

So next year, with 3 x RYR 738s will SEN start having overnight parking issues as well? Will they have to start using stands 11+ which will eat into parking for Stobart Executive ?
No the newly constructed north apron has space for 5 A320 sized stands. It may need a remote coaching operation, but we shall see.

[Pain in the R's]

Remote stands with coaching, remote car parks with coaching, crowded terminal, queuing to pass airside, queuing to land, queuing to backtrack, queuing at immigration and traffic congestion. So what made SEN number one with its convenience and good passenger experience is about to end? Worth it though as no one really likes an underused airport. Roll on it becoming Luton Mark 2 but on a far more compact scale and then watch the business jets go before they even got started due to new noise controls due to complaining residents.

[Musket90]

Expressflight - Jersey runway does have grooved BBA but the stone mix needs to be more "open" to enable grooving. Southend's runway, similar to Manchester 05L/23R, is
BBA but with a "tighter" stone mix therefore not designed to be grooved.

[pabely]

No the newly constructed north apron has space for 5 A320 sized stands. It may need a remote coaching operation, but we shall see.

Didn't realise as it does not appear to have stand numbers according to the charts, big difference from when I did my PPL training there!

[Expressflight]

Expressflight - Jersey runway does have grooved BBA but the stone mix needs to be more "open" to enable grooving. Southend's runway, similar to Manchester 05L/23R, is
BBA but with a "tighter" stone mix therefore not designed to be grooved.
Thanks for that information. Looks like full re-surfacing needed at SEN then prior to grooving.

[LTNman]

Someone posted on the LTN thread that SEN had 4 overnight business jet movements maybe yesterday, which I thought was a bit on the light side seeing that SEN is the only airport open for that sort of traffic now but then I found this London Southend Airport | London Southend Airport | Southend-on-Sea Borough Council (http://www.southend.gov.uk/info/200158/common_projects/493/london_southend_airport/1) Seems that SEN is limited to just 4 movements per night so also has major restrictions.

[Expressflight]

The limit is 120 movements per month. Additional movements can be accepted but anything above 120 has to be deducted from the next month's quota so there is rather more flexibility than "just 4 movements per night" would suggest. I think inbound diversions are exempt from inclusion in the night quota.

[HeliAl]

Out of interest, is this 120 limit both inbound and outbound. ie 1a/c=2 movements.
Just a thought🧐

[LTNman]

Most overnight flights are inbound.

[Expressflight]

SEN had six bizjet arrivals overnight Sunday.

[LTNman]

Looking up then but if they don't ration themselves they will run out of slots towards the end of each month. Do they stay or reposition empty to other London Airports for a departure?

[tophat27dt]

Looking up then but if they don't ration themselves they will run out of slots towards the end of each month. Do they stay or reposition empty to other London Airports for a departure?
sensible thing would be to file a flight plan to Luton then divert to SEN then it doesn't count!

[viscount3]

I was thinking with Rayair stating routes from april next year, and being handled by Stobarts, if it works out ok,will they try to have them ground handle them at Stantsed ?

[LTNman]

The case for more early and late trains can only increase with the Ryanair announcement and the general increase in Southend's movements. How long can the rail company hold out?

[SEN Observer]

I saw Air Malta A320 land this morning on 23. It managed to pull up in time to exit Charlie without a backtrack. Perhaps Stobart should consider shortening the runway!!

[koninckske]

How is the expanded Groningen route doing loads wise and also the new Antwerp route, is it doing better than last time
In April 1583 pax to ANR and 5267 pax to GRQ.

[DC3 Dave]

Looking up then but if they don't ration themselves they will run out of slots towards the end of each month. Do they stay or reposition empty to other London Airports for a departure?

My understanding is that the airport polices itself and fines airlines that arrive after the curfew. The same would apply if the nighttime movements limits are exceeded at the end of whatever period is used.* I guess Stobart fine themselves in the latter case.

Given the money raised from fines is periodically handed over to local good causes, with the blessing of the local authority, I cannot believe we are talking big bucks here. Perhaps Stobart are more more than happy to cough up and the arrangement will continue until and unless the council cries foul.

*Compliance is assessed annually.

[Expressflight]

In April 1583 pax to ANR and 5267 pax to GRQ.
..... and GRQ (I have a contact there) was 6400 in May; that a 260% increase on May 2017.

[Barling Magna]

..... and GRQ (I have a contact there) was 6400 in May; that a 260% increase on May 2017.

Wow, that's impressive. How many more flights in May '18 v. May '17 though?

[Red Four]

Wow, that's impressive. How many more flights in May '18 v. May '17 though?
I think 72 total in 2017, 154 in 2018.

[Expressflight]

I think 72 total in 2017, 154 in 2018.
That's correct.

[Barling Magna]

If my maths is correct that's an increase in LF from 34.2 to 41.6. Clearly headed in the right direction.

[AirportPlanner1]

MAN is rising steadily as well. I was one of 44 on board this morning northbound.

[ara01jbb]

The case for more early and late trains can only increase with the Ryanair announcement and the general increase in Southend's movements. How long can the rail company hold out?

Greater Anglia are not in a good place. Rumours of their sizeable franchise bond with the DfT having been forfeited. Three entirely new fleets of trains on every route within two years. They’re not going to be expanding any service beyond what the DfT specified in the franchise agreement - they’ve got quite enough on their plate.

[AirportPlanner1]

MAN is rising steadily as well. I was one of 44 on board this morning northbound.

Only 11 southbound tonight though. 28 got off the evening northbound.

[Expressflight]

The long awaited third SEN-based E195, EI-GGC ex G-FBEN, has arrived at SEN this afternoon and looks likely to enter service later today although Titan are operating the DBV this afternoon.. Hopefully this will put an end to the delays and cancellations that have plagued the STK/BE SEN operation for the past couple of weeks.

[Expressflight]

Looking up then but if they don't ration themselves they will run out of slots towards the end of each month. Do they stay or reposition empty to other London Airports for a departure?
Having looked at the past couple of days many seem to remain at SEN; three of the six Sunday night inbounds departed between midday and 2100 yesterday and two of the others were still on the ground this morning.

[brian_dromey]

The numbers to MAN aren’t bad, particularly given the route is operated on the ATR. I wonder if people are using the service to connect onwards? The likes of skyScanner and flyBe’s own website seems to push connections via MAN quite heavily.

[virginblue]

If my maths is correct that's an increase in LF from 34.2 to 41.6. Clearly headed in the right direction.

Isn't this more like 42 pax per flight on an 68 seater, ie a load facotr north of 60 per cent?

[AirportPlanner1]

The numbers to MAN aren’t bad, particularly given the route is operated on the ATR. I wonder if people are using the service to connect onwards? The likes of skyScanner and flyBe’s own website seems to push connections via MAN quite heavily.



My experience is that a few are, but the majority aren’t. For example, last night there were no transfer pax in either direction. At most it’s only ever been a handful on any flight I’ve been on. That said, I’ve never got the afternoon flight northbound (which is good for connections at either end) but when booking my next couple of flights I’ve noticed that to be the one that says “Only X seats left at £XX” whereas the couple of times I’ve seen it arrive into MAN in the earlier days there was hardly anyone on it.

[Barling Magna]

Isn't this more like 42 pax per flight on an 68 seater, ie a load facotr north of 60 per cent?

Yes, of course you're right. I did say if my maths was correct, which naturally it wasn't.

[tophat27dt]

Good to see the schedules more or less on time now that the third E195 has arrived, although I don't know why the morning Glasgow was cancelled. LOT have announced flights from Budapest to LCY from next February. Will that kill off the SEN Budapest operation do you think?

[_aax1]

Good to see the schedules more or less on time now that the third E195 has arrived, although I don't know why the morning Glasgow was cancelled. LOT have announced flights from Budapest to LCY from next February. Will that kill off the SEN Budapest operation do you think?

Totally different market, LCY service will target business travellers. I can't really see it working to be honest. Not sure if their is enough central London business pax to warrant the service, particularly with a foreign airline for BUD with no connections either side.

I can see EZY one day replacing the BE SEN route. They currently only serve LGW and fares are redicilously high all year round to BUD on thurs, fri, sun and Mon with all the weekend stag and city breaks, so yields must be decent. Could be a good fit in their route network/London ops and touristy enough for SEN to sustain its own market with all the competition from other London airports.

[southender]

Wonderful photo on Southend Operations and Movements Facebook page taken from the tower early this morning. I counted 25 or more aircraft on the aprons, with not a spare stand apparent. Even had a Gulfstream parked up on stand 1.

Overnight arrivals come from all corners of the globe, a truly cosmopolitan atmosphere.

Long may it continue, or until the end of September at least!!

[Planespeaking]

Wonderful photo on Southend Operations and Movements Facebook page taken from the tower early this morning. I counted 25 or more aircraft on the aprons, with not a spare stand apparent. Even had a Gulfstream parked up on stand 1.

Overnight arrivals come from all corners of the globe, a truly cosmopolitan atmosphere.

Long may it continue, or until the end of September at least!!




It is great to see SEN so busy, however stands are going to have to be freed up for the start of Ryanair's three aircraft operation next spring. Perhaps some of the longstay bizjets will have to be stacked like they do at LTN to free up space.
Still it's a good position to be in, and gives the lie to some of the doomongers on here who couldn't wait for the airport to fail.

[davidjohnson6]

Flew between Chateauroux and Southend. Very low load factor (well below 50%) filled mainly with French people holidaying in London - very few Brits. This suggests that the aim of the subsidy, namely encouraging Brits to visit Chateauroux is not working - not that surprising as the local seem to excel at marketing fluff in the knowledge that thete isn't really anything worth seeing; I managed to fill 2 hours with sightseeing but found myself struggling after that ! Really can't see this route returning in summer 2019 unless the local French Govt body paying for the subsidy has money to burn.

[tophat27dt]

Oh dear Another ATR broken this morning??

[virginblue]

Flew between Chateauroux and Southend. Very low load factor (well below 50%) filled mainly with French people holidaying in London - very few Brits. This suggests that the aim of the subsidy, namely encouraging Brits to visit Chateauroux is not working - not that surprising as the local seem to excel at marketing fluff in the knowledge that thete isn't really anything worth seeing; I managed to fill 2 hours with sightseeing but found myself struggling after that ! Really can't see this route returning in summer 2019 unless the local French Govt body paying for the subsidy has money to burn.

While I doubt that the route is sustainable, I also doubt that it is aimed at Chateauroux proper which is a fairly small city. Probably targeting those who holiday in the area or who have second homes, just like all those flights to Tours, Limoges or Poitiers. Problem is undoubtedly how to create awareness of that route with the target group mainly served by Ryanair and Flybe from STN and SOU.

[Barling Magna]

I would have thought that the route is mainly targeted at the French wishing to travel to London?

[compton3bravo]

Could not agree more Barking. Nothing too spectacular plus very few ex-pats in the vicinity. Personally I don't find both Tours and Poitiers not particularly attractive either but Limoges is a different matter. Visit Oradeur-sur-Glane if you can and if you are not moved by the futility of war you never will be but good luck to the airline for giving it a go.

[tophat27dt]

Anybody know why 3 hours delay this morning on AMS? I am using this route for the first time next week with connections on separate tickets (I know it's at my own risk). The weather is CAVOK.

[Falcon666]

AMS
Easyjet website is your friend.
Go to Business/ flight tracker for the info

Its due to crew welfare issues

[welkyboy]

DT. It’s operating from Amsterdam with a Neo (1st visit to SEN) so inbound on time outbound delayed

[davidjohnson6]

Barling - with load factors in the region of 25%, the Southend-Chateauroux route is clearly losing a lot of money. An ordinary commercial airline would probably be cutting the route - my understanding is that public sector organisation in Chateauroux is providing some sort of commercial support to IGAvion / Skytaxi. Why would French public sector effectively want to subsidise visits to Buckingham Palace and also provide glossy magazines on the plane promoting Chateauroux as a tourist destination ?

[22/04]

Why would French public sector effectively want to subsidise visits to Buckingham Palace and also provide glossy magazines on the plane promoting Chateauroux as a tourist destination ?https://www.pprune.org/images/statusicon/user_online.gif https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/report.gif (https://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=10184916)

Regional pride

[tophat27dt]

AMS
Easyjet website is your friend.
Go to Business/ flight tracker for the info

Its due to crew welfare issues
Many thanks for the info.

[tophat27dt]

DT. It’s operating from Amsterdam with a Neo (1st visit to SEN) so inbound on time outbound delayed
Hi Welkyboy! Nice one.

[Barling Magna]

Could not agree more Barking.

Hey, I'm BarLing, not BarKing.

Then again, maybe you're right.

[DC3 Dave]

I'm posting this open letter from Andrew Tinkler here because I believe some will find it both relevant and of interest. Apologies to those who do not believe it belongs here.

https://www.scribd.com/document/383098493/Letter-to-Shareholders-29-June-2018

[Andy_S]

Apologies to those who do not believe it belongs here.I've said before that I believe the fortunes of Stobart Group and its Aviation Division are inextricably linked, so any boardroom shenanigans is highly relevant and (in moderation) valid for discussion IMO..

The AGM is on Friday, and the vote to replace the Chairman looks like it’s going to be close. I get the feeling from the business pages that Tinkler’s camp may have the upper hand.

Personally, I don’t think anyone comes out of this very well. And it’s keeping Stobart Group in the headlines for all the wrong reasons.

[SWBKCB]

Personally, I don’t think anyone comes out of this very well. And it’s keeping Stobart Group in the headlines for all the wrong reasons.

An it could be taking the corporate eye off the ball - for example, could the Carlisle fiasco be related?

[rowly6339]

I've said before that I believe the fortunes of Stobart Group and its Aviation Division are inextricably linked, so any boardroom shenanigans is highly relevant and (in moderation) valid for discussion IMO..

The AGM is on Friday, and the vote to replace the Chairman looks like it’s going to be close. I get the feeling from the business pages that Tinkler’s camp may have the upper hand.

Personally, I don’t think anyone comes out of this very well. And it’s keeping Stobart Group in the headlines for all the wrong reasons.

tinklers camp have around 1/3 of the votes they hardly have it in their favour, far from it.

[virginblue]

Has anyone connected through MAN on BE to another domestic destination? Is the transfer airside without security or are you dumped in arrivals and have to fight your way back through security to departures? BE offers 45m connections which would be very tight if the latter scenario applies.

[JobsaGoodun]

Domestic to domestic connections with BE through T3 at MAN are all airside - no need to go anywhere near arrivals or security. In fact, the minimum connection time offered is just 35mins on some and I've never experienced an issue in making connections through their hub.

[Andy_S]

tinklers camp have around 1/3 of the votes they hardly have it in their favour, far from it.


They have about a third of the votes in the bag simply from Neil Woodford’s institutional shareholding and Tinkler’s personal stake. What’s not known is which way the rest of the votes will fall, and they only need to secure about a quarter of these to win. One other institutional shareholder, while not actually declaring for either party, has publically refused to give the board his full backing and a few days ago one of the non-execs switched his loyalty to Tinkler. Of course, this may just be a case of better news management from Tinkler’s camp, but they only need one or two major shareholders to pitch in with them and suddenly it becomes too close to call.

Also worth observing that if Tinkler does get his way, then most of the other directors, including Warwick Brady, will almost certainly quit, in which case the turmoil will continue.

I should add that I myself don’t have a dog in this particular race and am less then enthused about either of the factions.

[rowly6339]

I guess we will find out tomorrow

[DC3 Dave]

I guess we will find out tomorrow

Apparently not. An announcement of the results of voting has been delayed by the company.

[Andy_S]

Apparently it was that close that they've invited an independent 3rd party to double check the count. Result now expected on Monday. Meanwhile, the Chief Financial Officer has suddenly quit:

Bitter boardroom battle comes to head at Stobart AGM (https://www.ft.com/content/41735cbc-80e5-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475)

Never a dull moment........

[Buster the Bear]

What an absolute fiasco which does nothing for the reputation of Southend sadly.

[SEN Observer]

I am not a believer in paid for access to newspaper websites; is anyone prepared to enlighten me as to the contents of the FT report? If not then I'll just wait for it to become general knowledge.

[LGS6753]

Under public company listing rules, any price-sensitive news must be disclosed to the stock exchange first, thus reaching all investors at the same time. That is why the announcement has been delayed until Monday.

[tophat27dt]

Under public company listing rules, any price-sensitive news must be disclosed to the stock exchange first, thus reaching all investors at the same time. That is why the announcement has been delayed until Monday.
I love aviation but hate the politics. Changing the subject, when do the Bordeaux flights begin?

[Andy_S]

I am not a believer in paid for access to newspaper websites; is anyone prepared to enlighten me as to the contents of the FT report? If not then I'll just wait for it to become general knowledge.

That's weird; the link worked yesterday. But anyway, this is the actual text:


A bitter public boardroom battle at Stobart Group came to a head on Friday with an acrimonious annual general meeting. The infrastructure group, whose assets include Southend airport and a biomass business, has been in turmoil since May, when former chief executive Andrew Tinkler launched a campaign to unseat chairman Iain Ferguson. However, the results of the AGM — showing whether Mr Tinkler has been successful — were delayed past the close of business on Friday, which is unusual and typically indicates the vote was close. The AGM itself was fractious with several shareholders calling on Mr Ferguson to stand down. “I will not be standing down,” he said. “One of the great sadnesses of the last few weeks has been that our relationship [Mr Ferguson and Mr Tinkler] has deteriorated after four years of working together.” William Stobart, son of the founder of the Eddie Stobart truck haulage business and a close friend of Mr Tinkler, said at the meeting that the board had damaged the company brand and that his phone had been “red hot” with calls from unhappy employees. Mr Ferguson acknowledged there had been a “significant dispute at Stobart over the past weeks”. “As chairman of a listed company, you never want disputes to impact on the business. However, it is important that debate happens in a transparent way.” He added that there were “hugely important principles at stake”, including how all “boards must be professional and put ethics at the heart of everything they do”. On the morning of the AGM, Stobart’s chief financial officer stood down. In an announcement to the stock market, the company said that Richard Laycock had decided to step down as “chief financial officer and executive director and will not be putting himself forward for election at the AGM”. Recommended UK companies Stobart moves shares around ahead of crucial AGM vote Mr Laycock has been silent over the past couple of months, with shots mainly exchanged between Mr Tinkler and chief executive Warwick Brady. Mr Tinkler was fired as a director of Stobart Group in June, following his efforts to remove Mr Ferguson and replace him with retail entrepreneur Philip Day. Stobart said at the time it was issuing legal proceedings against Mr Tinkler, alleging “breach of contract and breach of fiduciary duty”. Mr Tinkler then launched defamation proceedings against Stobart’s board, including Mr Laycock. In an email to Mr Ferguson, Mr Laycock said he had not approved the statement Mr Tinkler was complaining about. Mr Tinkler failed in a legal case this week to have himself reinstated on the AGM’s ballot for re-election as a director. The votes for and against Mr Ferguson’s election among major shareholders were looking tight before the AGM. Largest shareholder Invesco, which owns 25 per cent, had said it would support Mr Ferguson, as had Royal London, with 2.6 per cent. Fund manager Neil Woodford, whose Woodford Investment Management has 20 per cent, said it would vote against Mr Ferguson, as would Mr Tinkler, who owns 7.8 per cent, and Allan Jenkinson, a former Stobart director who sold his biomass business to the company when Mr Tinkler was chief executive and owns 5.6 per cent. Proxy advisers Glass Lewis and ISS had both advised shareholders to vote for Mr Ferguson.

[mikkie4]

Bordeaux starts 25th july

[DC3 Dave]

Just spotted this article regarding an incident on Thursday. There seems to be a contradiction regarding what happened to the pax. Does anyone know?

Emergency plane landing at Stansted after bird strikes Southend easyJet craft on way to Malaga | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16337429.emergency-plane-landing-after-bird-strikes-southend-easyjet-craft/)

[tophat27dt]

Just spotted this article regarding an incident on Thursday. There seems to be a contradiction regarding what happened to the pax. Does anyone know?

Emergency plane landing at Stansted after bird strikes Southend easyJet craft on way to Malaga Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16337429.emergency-plane-landing-after-bird-strikes-southend-easyjet-craft/)
One of the passengers said the flight was eventually cancelled outbound and inbound. Refunds were offered. I think a replacement aircraft positioned empty from (Nice) later in the evening to operate the following days schedule. This time of year I imagine it's not so easy to find empty seats and get back home.

[SEN Observer]

Andy_S - .Thanks for the details. Would have thanked you earlier but have been out all day and only just seen it.

[Andy_S]

So, the results are in. And Ferguson survives – just. 51% to 49%.

In what seems to have been a chaotic and bad tempered AGM, a motion was also raised from the floor to re-appoint Andrew Tinkler as a director – and was narrowly passed. However, from what I’ve read, if I understand correctly, it seems that the re-elected board immediately dismissed him again……..

The question is – will Tinkler now cease and desist, or will he and his supporters regroup and continue their campaign.

[Falcon666]

So, the results are in. And Ferguson survives – just. 51% to 49%.

In what seems to have been a chaotic and bad tempered AGM, a motion was also raised from the floor to re-appoint Andrew Tinkler as a director – and was narrowly passed.

The question is – will Tinkler now cease and desist, or will he and his supporters regroup and continue their campaign.

I sense this is not the end of the story, there appears no harmony at all in Stobart at present.
Looking to diversify the shareholder base in the future is fine but at the moment , with two camps not prepared to give an inch , this is only going to drag on in Public I fear.

[SEN Observer]

I was listening in on the radio this morning and the tower called up Air Malta advising that their slot time was 09:00 (10:00 our time) to which Malta replied that they couldn't make that as they had not commenced boarding due to congestion in the terminal. And Ryanair hasn't arrived yet!! A sign of things to come?

[mikkie4]

someone has posted on another web site that SEN has planning permission to expand by 1/3rd so this might not be a future problem, don't think if there was a problem RYAN AIR wouldn't have based 3 air craft at SEN if the slots were not available

[tophat27dt]

I was listening in on the radio this morning and the tower called up Air Malta advising that their slot time was 09:00 (10:00 our time) to which Malta replied that they couldn't make that as they had not commenced boarding due to congestion in the terminal. And Ryanair hasn't arrived yet!! A sign of things to come?
the flight departed at 1020 so I suggest they hadn't completed boarding on schedule because of security checks also on the Palma and FlyBe outbound flights. Not a regular glitch I think.

[tophat27dt]

Well - the Southend Airport website is as totally useless as ever. STILL states on their "Destinations" page that Carlisle flights commence September 2018. Truly, truly, pathetic.
I think the person who updates the website is part time and pops in once a month, so be patient. Lol

[EssexMan61]

Yes - tophat - I think you are on the right lines! I just think that it is a really poor show that in this digital day and age they can not do better.

[SEN Observer]

Well - the Southend Airport website is as totally useless as ever. STILL states on their "Destinations" page that Carlisle flights commence September 2018. Truly, truly, pathetic.

Have I missed something? Are Carlisle flights not now starting in September?

[ericlday]

Wrong year....2019 !!!!

[tophat27dt]

Have I missed something? Are Carlisle flights not now starting in September?
Not till April 2019 earliest due to ATC staffing problems.

[SEN Observer]

Thank you tophat for the information. I must definitely have missed something somewhere as I seem to have had it in mind that when June this year was abandoned as the start date it was said that the three month delay would be enough time for the necessary steps to be taken. Obviously a worse situation than I understood it to be and the company initially recognised.

[AirportPlanner1]

Ever upwards on the MAN route it seems, people were still getting off it (the 18:00 arrival) when I reached my car in car park 2.

[Planespeaking]

Ever upwards on the MAN route it seems, people were still getting off it (the 18:00 arrival) when I reached my car in car park 2.
Am I missing something, what are you trying to convey?

[Barling Magna]

Am I missing something, what are you trying to convey?

Well, er, it seems straightforward enough i.e. a good passenger load on that particular rotation? Or am I missing something too?

[SWBKCB]

Not till April 2019 earliest due to ATC staffing problems.

Not just ATC staffing issues:


Kate Willard, head of corporate projects at Stobart Group, said: “We know how much the launch of commercial flights at the airport means for Cumbria, the south of Scotland, and the Lake District. We have been working around the clock and physically we are ready. But it is extremely important that this major project, which will connect the region to the tourism and business hubs of London, Dublin and Belfast, is safe and operationally compliant so as to be sustainable in the long term. This requires both a full complement of trained and experienced operational staff being in place from commencement – to deliver a sustainable flight timetable – and also an infrastructure which fully meets regulatory requirements."

[AirportPlanner1]

Well, er, it seems straightforward enough i.e. a good passenger load on that particular rotation? Or am I missing something too?

I’d say generally on the up, that is my point. The route had a lot of vocal doubters when it was announced including myself. But then I got a new job which necessitated a lot of travel to Manchester, and I’ve ended up using it quite a bit.

Aside from a blip a couple of weeks back counciding with an England World Cup match when there were just 10 of us, my recent loads in both directions have been between 35-50. While this isn’t setting the world alight, it’s a lot better than people expected and far better than I experienced in the earlier days when less than 10 was common and more than 25 rare.

The other interesting thing is people are connecting through SEN, including it seems MAN-SEN-GLA. Why you’d do that I’m not sure, but there you go.

That is anecdotal evidence and feedback that may be of interest to some on here, if it doesn’t bother you then just move on.

[DC3 Dave]

I'm told Paul Gascoigne flew from SEN to Moscow as a guest of the FA in the last couple of days. I wonder what he made of the inglenook fireplace. Bet he's a laugh a minute on a small jet. "Wae aye man, shift yourself and let me have a go at those controls!"

[tophat27dt]

I'm told Paul Gascoigne flew from SEN to Moscow as a guest of the FA in the last couple of days. I wonder what he made of the inglenook fireplace. Bet he's a laugh a minute on a small jet. "Wae aye man, shift yourself and let me have a go at those controls!"
More likely "pour me a large one, mate"

[tophat27dt]

Two late LCY diversions arrived after 2300 and 5 bizjets due during the night continue to keep SEN interesting at night (in the past three nights have been a B757, two B737s and an exec A320 amongst the smaller visitors.). One minus point this evening was that the FlyBe Manchester was cancelled but I don't know why.

[southender]

Apparently eleven biz jets on the apron early this morning, a fair number of which arrived from Russia. I would imagine activity will reduce a bit now the World Cup is over.

[Expressflight]

Apparently eleven biz jets on the apron early this morning, a fair number of which arrived from Russia. I would imagine activity will reduce a bit now the World Cup is over.


I think there were ten overnight bizjet arrivals plus two LCY inbounds re-routed to SEN due to very late running. A couple of the bizjets departed during the night.

[runwayman]

Announced today Adria to operate 3 x a week to Paderborn starting this winter

[tophat27dt]

Announced today Adria to operate 3 x a week to Paderborn starting this winter
Interesting one, talked about last year, but what is there to do in or near Paderborn?

[DC3 Dave]

The world's largest computer museum apparently.

Southend Airport announces new route to Paderborn-Lippstadt, Germany | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16359118.southend-airport-announces-new-route-to-paderborn-lippstadt-germany/)

[inOban]

Is there still a military base?

[SEN Observer]

The SEN website now shows Carlisle as commencing spring 2019. They have also got the Ryanair destinations showing. If only Paderborn were showing we could say they were completely up to date!!

[mikkie4]

mini break in paderborn 28 oct till 1st nov 248 euro rtn inc tax ...is that cheap or expencive?

[AirportPlanner1]

I noticed that. I hope it’s just a glitch while it’s being loaded in the system because they won’t sell many seats at that price. It is quite isolated, about 90 mins to Hannover and Dortmund/2 hours to Dusseldorf/2.5 hours to Frankfurt, but even so it’s too high.

i think fares of circa €49 each way will come online, at least I hope so.

[DC3 Dave]

I believe Adria have acquired 6 50 seat Saabs. I guess that's the most likely aircraft for the route.

[davidjohnson6]

Paderborn is a pleasant enough place to spend a few hours if you have nothing else to do, but it is not a place that tourists often visit

[Expressflight]

I would have thought their main target market is outbound traffic from the Paderborn area to London.

[Cyrano]

I would have thought their main target market is outbound traffic from the Paderborn area to London.
Yes, I'd certainly agree. The Adria press release is here (https://www.adria.si/en/news/2018/adria-airways-establishes-a-base-at-paderborn-lippstadt-airport/) and the quote by the Paderborn Airport MD (who is presumably writing a very large cheque to Adria) seems to imply that the schedule is designed to meet the needs of Paderborn-area business travellers. The press release usefully shows the full schedule and it is clear that Paderborn-Zurich is the main priority by a mile, with Paderborn-Vienna and Paderborn-Southend as midday fillers.

[AirportPlanner1]

I would have thought their main target market is outbound traffic from the Paderborn area to London.

There are also Brits in the area as a legacy from the MOD days where they had a base there. This is why for a few years Air Berlin flew to Southampton (and then Bournemouth) and Manchester until things first started unraveling for them. They also operated daily to STN for many years.

Pre-Air Berlin, there were charter flights from STN a couple of times a week with British World and later European.

When Stobart first launched European routes with the two ATRs, Paderborn was a route I was sure they would try as it seemed an obvious gap in the market having lost all its UK services.

[Barling Magna]

There are also Brits in the area as a legacy from the MOD days where they had a base there.

Aren't 20th Armoured Brigade still at Normandy Barracks near Paderborn....?

[LGS6753]

Pre-Air Berlin, there were charter flights from STN a couple of times a week with British World and later European.

Those flights were chartered from MoD, and BW won the business from Britannia, who had operated them for many years from Luton. Gatow and Gutersloh were amongst other airports served.

[virginblue]

IIRC Paderborn used to have London flights in the past when the old Eurowings served STN and LCY (and prior to that, IIRC, LGW) by way of a Eurowings minihub at DTM or FMO. Eurowings ran a few international routes by feeding an ATR42 at FMO or DTM with pax from PAD and DTM or FMO.

It is a very affluent area with many top tier German companies located there. Wort noting that PAD currently mainly relies on Lufthansa flights to/from Munich and Frankfurt that are well patronized by business travellers. Don't expect any low cost style pricing, not feasible with a Saab 2000.

[rowly6339]

Interesting one, talked about last year, but what is there to do in or near Paderborn?

Most of the British military still in Germany are based around the Paderborn area so very handy for troops wishing to get home instead of the drive/ferry/train. I used to fly back a lot when based in Bielefeld but mainly from Hanover as Paderborn didn't have many if any flights back then that were suitable for me.

[tophat27dt]

Most of the British military still in Germany are based around the Paderborn area so very handy for troops wishing to get home instead of the drive/ferry/train. I used to fly back a lot when based in Bielefeld but mainly from Hanover as Paderborn didn't have many if any flights back then that were suitable for me.
So it sounds like a 70 seater has a good chance to make a profit. Adria are not planning to operate it as a low cost route.