Southend-2

[tws123]

Potential strike action over Christmas -
Southend Airport responds to claims strike will ground flights over Christmas - Essex Live (http://www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/southend-airport-responds-claims-strike-881159)

[LTNman]

However the airport has accused the union of agitating for strike action and say operations will not be affected by the decision.

Don't think so, more spin from the kings of spin :eek: The airport will be closed without fire cover.

[mik3bravo]

Stobart cutting corners yet again. See it, say it, sort it.

Was on Dub to Sen on Sun night. Delayed due to earlier Flybe 'issues'. Long story short, arrived SEN with made up time following atc dog leg routing clearances to make up lost time.

Landed at SEN ad parked on stand only to experience 20 minute delay of pax because SEN procedures mean international pax on parked a/c on our right had international border control screening, whilst our Dub was CTA border clearance.

Such amateur solution to flights arriving from CTA and non-CTA originating airports.

Pax on the Flybe became seriously pissed off. Captain howled out of cockpit slide window to ground handling 'why are my pax still not allowed disemarrked?'

Ground handler (Stobart) personnel thought it was comical!

Pax got more pissed off!
It's this type of experience which f!cks up the SEN experience.

Gotta say - won't use SEN again. Rather pay extra £50 for Cityjet from LCY - it just works as expected.

I used SEN in the days of EI Regional and last weekend was first time to use the new Flybe service.

Never again!

Waited 40 minutes for checked bags to come onto the belt. They ended up serving checked luggage onto overy sized roller wheel's area.

Putting this into perspective - we were the ONLY and final flight last Sunday evening.

Bloody disgraceful lazy :mad: the pax attitude.

I said I'd give SEN benefit of the doubt.

Boy was I so wrong.

Avoid SEN - it's disorganised and anateurish in their overall approach to customer centricity.

Annoying and stressfull pax experience.

Booked on flights at time of alleged fire services strike action.

I am seriously hacked off by all of this :mad: and amateur management attitude.

Will use LCY from now on.

[DC3 Dave]

So, would it be too much to ask that you complain directly to SEN management? I take your comments seriously.

Quote: Pax on the Flybe became seriously pissed off. Captain howled out of cockpit slide window to ground handling 'why are my pax still not allowed disemarrked?' Ground handler (Stobart) personnel thought it was comical!

A fair question. How do you know this? Were you that Captain or FO?

[mik3bravo]

I was standing up front at the opened cabin door listening to entire conversation as was about 5 other pax as all of us stood just inside a/c when cabin manager was standing at bottom of stairs.

Skipper was terribly apologetic after he made up considerable delay enroute only to put with this level of BS on stand.

Next question?

[DC3 Dave]

Mik3bravo You clearly didn't enjoy the SEN experience. The management need to address these issues or they will lose others like you.

I can only hope that if you choose LCY next time you don't end up getting diverted to SEN. I dread to think what you may end up posting!

[mikkie4]

NO AIRPORT IS PERFECT, This sort of thing must happen else were ,you were just unlucky.... If it means that much to you take your business to LCY. Plenty of other pax will be waiting to take your place

[asdf1234]

LCY is a better overall experience however SEN caters perfectly for the SEN catchment which is those people living in the 20 miles to the West and North of Southend.

Two things will dictate how well Southend does; flight schedules and flight prices.

People soon forget queues, bad customer service or lack of facilities if the destination they need to get to is served by aircraft leaving and returning at convenient times and at a price they like.

Which surveys about customer satisfaction mean nothing - just compare Luton and the customer experience there to the passenger numbers they attract. The management at SEN need to attract airlines that pay their way and not rely upon their own airline to fill stands without profit.

[bozthetwig]

I'm a long time lurker but never felt the need to join and post. However, after reading your post mik3bravo I decided to so I could clear a few things up.

I live in Southend and use the airport wherever possible. My experiences have been almost universally positive. I would like to stress that I don't know you, nothing I say is personal and I won't be posting back and forth as it will turn into an argument, which nobody is interested in. I just wanted to offer my point of view on something which inevitably won't be appreciated as there are some direct opposites to your own. That's nothing against you, it's just nature and precisely how I am likely to interpret your responses to me, hence why I won't be replying back and forth.

I was also on the flight from Dublin to Southend on Sunday 3rd, 20:25 - 21:40. The flight was indeed delayed but it was not down to Flybe issues earlier in the day as you say. The captain spoke to the cabin in Dublin to say that we were delayed due to an unexpected piece of hold luggage that they were awaiting some last minute paperwork for. We were also refuelling and were told not to put our seatbelts on whilst boarding. I do not blame SEN or Flybe for this.

The delay in Southend is very close to what you said. The captain said he had been informed that we were not allowed to disembark yet as some European regulation (I forget which he said) prevented two planes side by side from disembarking at the same time. If that is indeed true, as the captain said, then I again do not blame SEN or Flybe as they are just following rules. I am happy to be proved wrong if that is incorrect.

If you were at the front of the plane then I was only a few rows behind you. The mood in the cabin did not seem strained at all. In fact, quite the opposite. Everyone remotely near me was in great spirits, mostly because of the cabin crew gentleman whose comment after the slightly heavy landing was inadvertently hilarious and whose follow up comment was equally funny.

I can't comment on whether the captain and ground personnel engaged in conversation, nor on the checked luggage as I didn't have any, but my experience on the same flight was completely different to your one and the only corners I experienced being cut were time made up in the air.

[SEN Observer]

Rochford Council's website re proposed terminal extension, to be discussed December 14th.

https://rochford.cmis.uk.com/rochford/Meetings/tabid/73/ctl/ViewMeetingPublic/mid/410/Meeting/4471/Committee/846/SelectedTab/Documents/Default.aspx

[LTNman]

5.24

The 2010 runway extension planning consent allowed for up to 2 million passengers per annum (mppa) and the impact that this increase in passengers and their consequent traffic movements would have on the highway network was considered in the determination of the runway extension application. Subject to a number of planning conditions and clauses in the legal agreement requiring, amongst other things, works to the highway network and targets for public transport usage, the impact of a 2 mppa airport on the highway network was considered acceptable. The proposed development will not increase passenger numbers or flights above the limits already in place

Never knew the airport had a passenger limit imposed on it by the council of only 2 million passengers. Has someone told Stobart?

[mik3bravo]

Mik3bravo You clearly didn't enjoy the SEN experience. The management need to address these issues or they will lose others like you.

I can only hope that if you choose LCY next time you don't end up getting diverted to SEN. I dread to think what you may end up posting!

Look guys, park the cheap jabs please. All I am saying is that I have not used the place for quite a while and I was genuinely excited and looking forward to the new Fly e service to Dub. I went in with open mind.

Outbound was good. Inbound was as I've shared - a frigging disaster. So I've learned a lesson, and won't repeat it again. My only concern now is I'm booked on services over Xmas to New Year and this latest stunt the fire services are pulling has just added to my pax concerns. I can do without the hassle tbh. I spend most of my time on flights all over the world so I'm used to sh!t happens from time to time. Howvever this is SEN we're talking about, it's not exactly Heathrow or Stansted in terms of hecticness - it's positively sleepy at best.

So I fail to grasp how they simply can't get the basic's in order. No excuses for that at all. I feel Stobart are out of their depth. They talk a good game but they are hopelessly out of their depth in my personal opinion.

The stupidity and lack of customer centric experience on the Flybe arrival on stand last Sunday night was a bloody disgrace and I expect better for my money.

I will tackle the flights I prefer booked over Chrimbo but can tell you after that I wot use SEN again. I'd rather drive up M11 to Stansted or shoot over Dartford to Gatwick if need be but I won't put up with that level of incompetence again.

[OpsSix]

That's what happens when you design, build and run an airport on the cheap.

I dread to think what they'll be like once they set up camp as a handler at STN.

[Planespeaking]

Now it's a long time since I've heard of someone actually advocating taking on the M11 to Stansted or
'shooting over Dartford' to Gatwick rather than use SEN because of one unhappy experience. By the way when was the last time anyone from Essex actually ' shot over Dartford' to LGW. I have heard of a number of people missing their flights because of holds ups on the bridge or in the tunnel.
But please feel free mike3bravo.

[DC3 Dave]

Mik3bravo

No cheap jibe from me intended. Just my usual smart-arse 'humour'. Your attack has raised a concern which I hope is being addressed (the extension possibly?) There's only one way out. I've arrived a few times from Jersey and simply walked through unmanned immigration. I never really thought about what happens when two flights arrive together. Clearly if you or Manchester or Glasgow etc. arrive a couple of minutes behind a flight from TFS, 180 pax will have to be corralled into quite a small area before you can be allowed through.

If's that's the problem you should be angry. It's clearly not a :mad: happens situation. It's something that airport owners with a "logistical heritage" should have prepared for.

[AirportPlanner1]

It wasn't a problem in earlier times, we arrived alongside the EIR flight from DUB in perhaps 2013 or 14, we got in the queue for passport and they got funnelled down the side. What has changed?

[mik3bravo]

What's changed?

The airport can't seem to manage disembarking CTA and International simultaneously because all pax are herded and could end up mixed together in the corridor.

Clearly they need to sort it. For the poster above who also was on the sane flight, myself and first say 5 to 8 of us could hear the full conversations between the Captain and ground handling - the Captain was annoyed and asked why are his pax still not disembarked to which ground handler said we have to wait until pax from a/c parked on stand to our right emptied first and cleared passport border control.

The pax up front of our a/c were frustrated with the duration standing waiting for word to disembark possibly made worse because we all heard the stupidity of the circumstances the ground handler shouted up to the Captain who had the slide window open.

So as I said, it was not a satisfactory or acceptable position. I pay a fare, I expect fast boarding and disembarking and hold bags on belts quickly. That did not happen on the night and the airport was dead at that hour so can't understand what exactly the baggage handlers were doing for it to take so ridiculously long for bags to come out.

I could understand it if the place was rammed busy but it was dead.

Thankfully I got alternative airport choices in LCY, STN or LGW - and happy to drive my car to any of them.

[canberra97]

So considering what you have stated in your last sentence can we assume the case is now closed as it's got a bit repetitive.

[mik3bravo]

Absolutely! Equally, if I
hopefully experience a good passenger experience on upcoming pre-booked flights over Christmas then in the interest of balance, I will happily come on here and share, let's see how the next trip goes. Here's hoping SEN resolve the threatened strike action by the airports Fire Rescue Services in time for the busy festive period.

[asdf1234]

Now it's a long time since I've heard of someone actually advocating taking on the M11 to Stansted or
'shooting over Dartford' to Gatwick rather than use SEN because of one unhappy experience. By the way when was the last time anyone from Essex actually ' shot over Dartford' to LGW. I have heard of a number of people missing their flights because of holds ups on the bridge or in the tunnel.
But please feel free mike3bravo.

My nearest airport is SEN however I often drive to LGW or STN (LCY and LTN too and unavoidably LHR on occasions) for flights even when on the rare occasion SEN offers the same destination. I do this because other airports offer better flight schedules and quite often I want to be out early morning and back the same day.

On average I drive to LGW twice a month and have never missed a flight due to traffic congestion. This is partly due to most of my short haul flights departing early morning so I have the bridge to myself. However when flying long haul I normally depart mid-evening and the journey to LGW is in the rush hour.

I'd much prefer a short taxi ride to SEN but the flight schedules from SEN are geared towards holiday makers and not business travellers.

Interesting to see that the local authority capped the pax numbers to 2m in the S106 agreement. Can SEN payback the massive investment by Stobart with 2m pax annually? I'm guessing not.

[Expressflight]

I don't think a 2mppa cap was included in the Section 106 agreement. I think just an annual movement cap was stipulated with no reference to total pax numbers.

[mik3bravo]

Re fire services strike action over Christmas:

However Stobart Aviation, who have owned and operated the airport since 2008, insist there are contingencies in place to ensure there is no disruption.

Southend Airport fire workers vote to strike | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/15703038.Southend_Airport_fire_workers_vote_to_strike/)

Contingency in place. So I interpret this means business as usual and zero impacts to flights as result of this planned strike action.

[asdf1234]

I don't think a 2mppa cap was included in the Section 106 agreement. I think just an annual movement cap was stipulated with no reference to total pax numbers.

From the Rochford Council's memo on the matter:

Para 5.3: The central principle of the Joint Area Action Plan (JAAP) is that the airport can expand its operations to enable up to 2 million passengers to be carried annually.

Para 6.1: The s106 legal agreement which controls amongst other things, passenger numbers and includes flight restrictions...

Para 5.30: The airport has consent to operate within the parameters as restricted by the s106 legal agreement that accompanied the planning consent for the runway extension; this limits passenger numbers and restricts flights.

Seems that airport capacity is indeed constrained by the s106 agreement.

[Expressflight]

I don't know to which Rochford Council memo you are referring and I cannot lay my hands on the Section 106 agreement at the moment. I have found a Rochford District Council document entitled 'London Southend Airport - Operational Controls Summary Table' which makes no reference to a limit on annual passenger numbers.

I believe the 2mppa figure was that used in connection with granting planning consent for the original terminal building construction in around 2010. This has now of course been considerably enlarged under a later planning consent so presumably a higher number was envisaged at that point.

[asdf1234]

The memo is that produced for the forthcoming planning committee meeting on the 14th December (see link above). The capacity for the airport has not been revised and stands at 2m pax as per the s106 agreement that the airport operator is legally obliged to comply with.

[Expressflight]

Hopefully someone can find a copy of the S106 agreement to confirm one way or the other if a 2mppa limitation appears in the document. From memory I don't think it does but cannot be certain and the RDC Controls Summary Table I mentioned certainly doesn't include any reference to a limit of passenger numbers which seems odd.

[Pain in the R's]

Interesting that the evidence provided for the current application could be based on false information then?

[SWBKCB]

The original S106 agreement as an appendix to this doc.

https://www.southend.gov.uk/downloads/file/2609/deed_of_variation_-_s106_agreement_300410

[asdf1234]

A quick read of the document which is the original s106 agreement and the variation to it in 2012 shows that the limit is on ATMs and not pax numbers. The airport is limited to 53,300 ATMs annually and the forecasts by the airport's own consultants suggest that would equate to approximately 2m pax. The relevant paragraph is 3.41 on page 79 of the pdf document.

ATMs are defined as any fixed or rotary wing take off or landing. In effect an ATM need not have any terminal passengers (such as flying club activity). Someone with more time than me might want to model pax numbers based upon max atms in a year given the mixed nature of the aircraft fleet at SEN and taking into account average yields on those flights and discounting all non-pax flights from the calculation!

[DC3 Dave]

I don't sense antagonism towards the airport from local politicians (other than those opposed to aviation in general). So many of them want to be associated with the mainly good PR in the local press, and are happy to take photo opportunities or quote positively whenever they can.

These agreements can be reviewed if problematic. I would expect support for growth, not least because growth = jobs.

On a slightly more negative note, unless something changes in the next few weeks, no-one need fear exceeding 2 million pax for some time.

[asdf1234]

The concern the local authority has seems to be for the local road network not being able to cater for increased pax numbers. In the s106 agreement there are two threshold pax figures, 1.5m and 2m. Once the first is breached the operator of the airport has to contribute towards the local authority's transport scheme should insufficient pax use public transport to arrive at the airport. This is escalated again at the 2m pax threshold.

[Expressflight]

The key phrase here is "should insufficient pax use public transport to arrive at the airport." Currently the minimum percentage target for public transport arrivals is being exceeded so the provisions of that clause would not apply.

I see that my recollection that there was no 2mppa limit within the S106 agreement was correct while much of the discussion of the past few days was based on an assumption that such a limit existed. Let's move on.

[asdf1234]

Incorrect Expressflight. The ATM limit is based upon the Jacobs report figure of 1.97m pax appended to the S106 agreement. But let's move on.

[Expressflight]

asdf1234

Whatever the ATM limit was based upon in 2010 the fact is that 53,300mpa is the only limiting factor on airport capacity within the strictures of the S106 agreement. Yesterday you stated "The capacity for the airport has not been revised and stands at 2m pax as per the s106 agreement that the operator is legally obliged to comply with." Not so.

[airbourne]

How is the SEN-DUB route going since it re-started in October?

[DC3 Dave]

I haven't seen any figures but there's been many sold out flights with prices ranging from peanuts to around £350 for the last seats. Must be looking at 60,000 pax pa +

[Expressflight]

I would consider something around 10,000 for the first month of operations on SEN-DUB to represent a very successful re-launch of the route. Anything below 7,500 would be somewhat disappointing.

[LTNman]

Is Southend taking any snow diversions?

[Expressflight]

Closed for snow clearance at present and no diversions as far as I know before that.

[Red Four]

EZY A319 landing now, the GVA flight that diverted to LYS positioning back empty.

[asdf1234]

Is Southend taking any snow diversions?

Quite the opposite LTNman, a host of cancellations and delays according to the airport website.

[Planespeaking]

Quite the opposite LTNman, a host of cancellations and delays according to the airport website.

That might have something to do with the snow that caused cancellations, diversions and snoclo at several London airports today.

[Expressflight]

asdf1234

"A host of cancellations"?

There were two departure cancellations due to the snow at SEN (you had noticed the wx I assume) and two because AMS had snow as well and couldn't provide slots. They certainly did better than STN and LTN in that respect and that's no criticism of either of those airports on my part.

[SWBKCB]

Presumably the affected pax won't be that bothered by the differentiation

Taken from the SEN website, asdf1234's comment of a host of cancellations and delays doesn't seem too far out:

EZY7370 GENEVA 10:25 — Cancelled
BE6171 COLOGNE 12:35 — Cancelled
EZY7416 ALICANTE 12:50 13:04 Arrived
EZY7436 MALAGA 13:00 12:49 Arrived
BE6151 VIENNA 13:45 18:29 Arrived
BE6235 MANCHESTER 13:50 — Cancelled
EZY7402 AMSTERDAM 15:50 — Cancelled
BE6035 GRONINGEN 17:40 19:05 Arrived
BE6256 DUBLIN 17:55 21:40 Expected 21:40
BE6181 PRAGUE 17:55 19:25 Arrived
BE6025 RENNES 18:05 20:05 Arrived
EZY7404 AMSTERDAM 19:10 21:18 Expected 21:18
EZY7420 PARIS CDG 20:00 20:44 Arrived

[Expressflight]

I take it you didn't look at the LCY and LHR list of delays and cancellations either. The GVA cancellation was due to snow at GVA - the outbound aircraft diverted to LYS but let's not let the facts get in the way. Anyway SEN is picking up a few STN bizjet diversions at the moment.

[SWBKCB]

I think you're getting a bit defensive - adsf1234 said:

Quite the opposite LTNman, a host of cancellations and delays according to the airport website.

No mention of whose fault it was or any comparison with other airports. Being generous and only counting delays of over an hour, the list copied earlier from the airports website shows 10 out of 13 flights delayed or cancelled. I think describing that as "a host" seems like fair comment in the context.

As I said earlier, pax don't care why they are inconvenienced. A cancellation is a cancellation.

If I've made any factual errors, happy to be corrected.

[asdf1234]

I take it you didn't look at the LCY and LHR list of delays and cancellations either. The GVA cancellation was due to snow at GVA - the outbound aircraft diverted to LYS but let's not let the facts get in the way. Anyway SEN is picking up a few STN bizjet diversions at the moment.

LTNman didn't ask about LCY and LHR. Not sure why you are.

[southender]

Expressflight - The capacity of some posters on here to take any opportunity to bring SEN down amazes me.

On a day when all airports north of the Thames suffered severe delays and cancellations they pick on SEN, as if it was the only airport affected.

From what I gather, SEN runway's closure was by far shorter than either Luton's or Stansted's and most of the delays were caused by events outside of SEN's control, i.e. weather conditions at destination airports.

Please continue to post your informative views, which I personally look forward to reading.

[Barling Magna]

SEN did pretty well today by the look of it. In addition to several bizjets Cityflyer E-jets from Palma and Rimini diverted in this evening.

[Expressflight]

southender

You're quite right regarding the few posters who will take any excuse to hammer SEN - although in at least one case it's actually Stobart that is their bete noire and not the airport itself.

When a response is made like "LTNman didn't ask about LCY and LHR. Not sure why you are." it makes you realise there is absolutely no point in replying and I will try to make that my policy in future.

[AirportPlanner1]

There was a problem last night though, the GLA and MAN flights came down to Essex/Herts then headed back up north to Liverpool.

[DC3 Dave]

Any criticism of SEN's performance can only be made in the context of all UK airports suffering from the snow. I see LHR has a couple of hundred cancellations again today (Monday) mainly due to positioning issues. If they are struggling, with all their resources, just exactly does anyone expect at SEN?

[asdf1234]

Calm down everyone - seems you can't post a statement of fact on here without the rose-tinted SEN supporters coming out in force to denounce the naysayers.

Moving on....

The airport owners made the following statement last Thursday:

We reported in the AGM statement in June an expectation to pay an increased quarterly dividend of 4.5p per share, starting with the payment made on 7 July 2017. Dividends of 4.5p per share were paid on 6 October 2017 and the Board has now declared a further interim dividend of 4.5p per share which will be paid on 19 January 2018 to shareholders on the register as at 22 December 2017.

Subject to Board approval, further quarterly dividend payments of 4.5p per share will be made on 13 April 2018. The Group has non-operating asset resources available to support the dividend until 2022, and thereafter dividends are expected to be funded out of operating profits.

Given that the airport is limited to 53,300 annual movements, which the airport owner estimates will deliver circa 2m passengers per annum, do SEN observers believe that a) the airport can be profitable, b) and pay-back the investment in it, and c) deliver a dividend to shareholders with such limited annual movements?

[Hopefully I phrased my question in such a way so as not to upset anyone...]

[compton3bravo]

The only problem with that is the airport will never achieve two million passengers annually unfortunately. Not knocking just trying to be realistic.

[Expressflight]

I wouldn't say that SEN can never reach 2mppa. I think it probably will although wouldn't now like to predict when that might happen.

The big announcement that was expected to be made last month would in fact have resulted in 2mppa very nearly being reached in 2018 and it's still not clear, to me at least, whether it was only a postponement to the plans or a curtailment. Certainly at the moment the planned operation has not been announced anywhere else.

I hope that even the fiercest critics will accept that SEN has been unlucky with the two hoped-for new operations for 2018 not coming to fruition. It seems that the Monarch collapse and resulting slots becoming available plus the Brexit uncertainty contributed greatly to this. Setting up at SEN is obviously seen as more risky than expanding existing LON operations in the current uncertain political and social climate.

It's certainly an undisputed fact that SEN's operational limitations do hinder its growth potential but not to such an extent that 2mppa cannot be achieved in my view.

[asdf1234]

Is there not scope for Stobart Air to put on extra flights to generate a critical mass of passenger numbers that might put the airport more firmly on the map?

[gizmo71]

Looks like a whole host of diversions from LCY this morning.

[LTNman]

The only problem with that is the airport will never achieve two million passengers annually unfortunately. Not knocking just trying to be realistic.

When Luton was hovering around 2 million passengers for years I would have said it was not possible for Luton to have a capacity of 18 million passengers yet from next year it will with passengers to match. I can't see any reason why 2 million is not achievable for Southend

[DC3 Dave]

Is there not scope for Stobart Air to put on extra flights to generate a critical mass of passenger numbers that might put the airport more firmly on the map?

I'm not sure how many are needed for 'critical mass' however, having taken the decision to dramatically expand their Flybe franchise, including moving beyond being just an ATR regional service operator, it's perfectly possible they'll get even more ambitious and attempt significant further growth, possibly by acquisition.

But you can't get away from the fact that in the last couple of years there has been precisely zero new operators at SEN (please don't throw Sea-Air or Powdair at me) and that's quite damning no matter how unlucky they've been or close they've come.

Personally, I can't see this aircraft movement / pax numbers matter being too much of an obstacle to growth. Let's just hope it needs dealing with.

[Barling Magna]

a) the airport can be profitable, YES

b) and pay-back the investment in it, NO

and c) deliver a dividend to shareholders with such limited annual movements? YES, but probably not as high as 4.5p.

[SWBKCB]

And SEN isn't the only profit centre.

[southside bobby]

.....errrrrr SEN is a profit centre? tell us more...

[asdf1234]

.....errrrrr SEN is a profit centre? tell us more...

Profit centres can make losses, unfortunately.

Aviation is the largest profit centre in the balance sheet and as the investment properties are sold off to support the dividend, Aviation will becoming an even larger percentage of the overall group. So I believe all eyes will be on the airport to support the dividend from 2022.

Targets are 2.5m pax at £8 per pax profit (EBITDA) by 2018 which we know is now unrealistic. The longer term target is 5m pax at £10 per pax profit (EBITDA).

I can see two issues preventing achieving this. The first is the movements cap which only allows for circa 2m pax annually - however by removing non-pax flights (club flying, cargo, training etc...) this could be increased.

The second is that the Stobart Air fly a decent chunk of the pax and either they make a profit or the airport make a profit, but surely they both can't?

[j636]

Bordeaux, Dubrovnik added by Easyjet

[Expressflight]

Bordeaux 3 x weekly wef 25/7/18 and Dubrovnik 2 x weekly wef 28/7/18.

[tws123]

Prague (2x weekly from 25/07/2017) and Pula (2x weekly from 01/06/2017) appear in the booking engine.

[Barling Magna]

So that's the fourth based airframe allowing new destinations.

[mikkie4]

EZY will be competing with FLYBE on the DUBROVNIK and PRAGUE routes . wonder who will come out on top?

[compton3bravo]

I'll give you one guess!

[southside bobby]

Profit centre?.....Many thanks for your insightful explanation asdf1234.

[cumbrianboy]

Well done SEN - allow easyJet to compete with your own airline on the more popular routes! Genius.

[AirportPlanner1]

I'm pretty sure Stobart will exit those markets, I suggested previously some of the routes were to prove potential and Stobart would step aside if someone else came in.

Possibly they will try some new routes, or upgrade existing ones. Vienna seems to have done quite well on a limited schedule for example, that could easily fit into the slots vacated by Prague should that cease.

[AirportPlanner1]

Well done SEN - allow easyJet to compete with your own airline on the more popular routes! Genius.

Far from it, surely that was the point?

[stewyb]

Well done SEN - allow easyJet to compete with your own airline on the more popular routes! Genius.

Have to agree, cannot work that one out and can only assume the airport owners are happy for these two Flybe routes to disappear sooner rather than later!

[Planespeaking]

Have to agree, cannot work that one out and can only assume the airport owners are happy for these two Flybe routes to disappear sooner rather than later!

It probably frees up a Stobart aircraft for the new Southend to Carlisle trunk route!!

[mikkie4]

could work...EZY... SEN-PRAGUE DEPTS 07.25.....FLYBE DEPTS 13,40 so more than enough time between depts. the only thing is will there be enough passengers

[DC3 Dave]

We don't know what lies behind easyjet's decision, but it may be that Stobart are to be congratulated, and they've at least partly achieved their objective. The only problem is they've gone and got themselves two rather nice E195 aircraft which need to be kept busy and as full as possible. Obviously competition on your better routes can't help.

Perhaps this is all very civilised. Maybe easyjet are happy for Stobart to fill in gaps in their schedule, such as a mid / late morning flight to AMS.

[stewyb]

could work...EZY... SEN-PRAGUE DEPTS 07.25.....FLYBE DEPTS 13,40 so more than enough time between depts. the only thing is will there be enough passengers

Prague twice a day from SEN, best of luck!

[DC3 Dave]

Southend Airport launches four new routes to European destinations including Dubrovnik and Prague | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/15715618.Southend_Airport_launches_four_new_routes_to_Europe an_destinations/)

[Red Four]

The EZY PRG is only on Friday & Monday, the peak demand for weekend breaks (stag do's). I see there being enough for both on the route at that frequency.

Interesting that last summer, STK flight was an early AM flight (0630), but has now conveniently shifted.
The EZY flight is slightly later (0725), allowing the train connection from London to be comfortable time-wise.

Dubrovnik destination, both EZY and STK offering Saturday & Tuesday flights. Again STK has conveniently shifted from 0720 departure in summer 17, to 1510 departure in summer 18, and EZY is using a 0725 departure. The EZY schedule is a much shorter season (just over the summer hols.) than STK, so again should be room for both - loads were reasonable last year, and has been a booming market from across the UK last year.

[Barling Magna]

Yes, shouldn't be a problem for STK at the height of the season.

[DC3 Dave]

Lots of comment re Prague and Dubrovnik. What about the other two? I know little about Croatia, and absolutely nothing about Pula. Bordeaux on the other hand...... may I recommend a Barons de Rothschild Lafite 2015. Probably set you back around £18 but worth it for any reasonable excuse to celebrate.

So 7% of the new Europe wide routes have gone to SEN. None to STN. It can't be bad news for the junior airport, but what lies behind their decision? Don't throw in the cliched free landing and parking. It's not enough of an answer.

[22/04]

I keep saying you SEN boys don't talk yourself up enough. SEN is popular with pax, has a significant if older local catchment and no real competition for Easy and they have the operator building up routes for them so they are ripe for take over.

[DC3 Dave]

Another 'jam tomorrow' promise from Stobart.
Wilkins and Sons of Tiptree to open pop up shop at Southend Airport throughout Christmas | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/15768848.World_famous_brand_open_pop_up_at_Southend_Airport/?ref=mr&lp=8)

[southside bobby]

Nice one DC3...hehe.

[LTNman]

Is a pop up shop another name for a street barrow?

[Planespeaking]

Is a pop up shop another name for a street barrow?

I think its a yellow Robin Reliant with Tiptree Independent Traders on the side. Hooky Tiptree marmalade at half the price!!

[SWBKCB]

Is a pop up shop another name for a street barrow?

Maybe in Luton, but not in Essex! :ok:

[Expressflight]

Taking into account the new routes announced to BOD, DBV, PRG and PUY there still seem to be 7 weekly slots available for either additional routes or increased frequencies on existing ones.

[fatmed]

Taking into account the new routes announced to BOD, DBV, PRG and PUY there still seem to be 7 weekly slots available for either additional routes or increased frequencies on existing ones.

When it was announced that a 4th AC was coming to sen it was specific that it would be an A320. However looking at all the routes next summer it appears they are all on an A319.

[Expressflight]

That's interesting and I would have thought the A319 would find SEN-MLA difficult sometimes in the summer. It's an A320 route all this winter as far as I can see.

[AirportPlanner1]

I used this service today. Northbound this morning I think there were 25 of us, I'd say around 35-40 were waiting at MAN for the return (they had to be for SEN as there were no other flights from those gates).

Coming back at 17:00, there were about 30. Some others had also been on my morning flight up.

A key observation would be that like myself almost all pax northbound appeared to be on business, and about 70% southbound. I've used SEN for work a couple of times but mostly leisure. This is the first time I've seen any real concentration of business travellers. So even if pax numbers are mediocre, perhaps Stobart are to be congratulated for bringing a new demographic to SEN.

I would also add that I think there were actually less pax on the morning DUB flight than on ours. It also left before us, despite being scheduled for five minutes later.

[SEN Observer]

On a different subject. Flightradar24 really should get its act together. Both yesterday and today the Powdair flights from/to Sion appear on their arrivals and departure area for SEN using a CR2 aircraft!

[runwayman]

Rochford District Council approved the terminal extention application last night

[tws123]

Carlisle to Southend flights should be announced early next year. Operator might not necessarily be Stobart Air.

[southside bobby]

Blinking heck....another award listing.
Southend one of the "happiest airports" globally !!.
Space becoming obviously a premium on Stobart`s mantelpiece nowadays.. :)

[Planespeaking]

Blinking heck....another award listing.
Southend one of the "happiest airports" globally !!.
Space becoming obviously a premium on Stobart`s mantelpiece nowadays.. :)

All we need is space becoming a premium on the ramp.

[tws123]

I have to say there are a lot of hidden additions within the planning permission obtained. For example an increase in the number of check-in desks from 10 to 14, a larger departure lounge with an additional 2 gates (and potential room for new retail outlets), extended airside covered walkway, larger immigration hall in addition to the larger baggage reclaim facility. There is also room for a 4th baggage carousel if required in the future. It also appears domestic passengers can be bussed to a separate entrance into the baggage reclaim hall. Overall a very nice permission to have obtained by SEN.

[Expressflight]

Carlisle to Southend flights should be announced early next year. Operator might not necessarily be Stobart Air.

The News & Star newspaper story says flights from CAX commencing 4th June 2018 but possibly using a smaller aircraft to best match capacity to demand in the early stages.

[AirportPlanner1]

The News & Star newspaper story says flights from CAX commencing 4th June 2018 but possibly using a smaller aircraft to best match capacity to demand in the early stages.

Eastern Airways? Since they are also the Flybe umbrella allowing for consistent marketing

[cumbrianboy]

I have no idea who the operator would be, but I don't much benefit in operating anything less than an ATR42 ... the operating costs are essentially the same for the ATR42 vs Saab340/DO328 which would be the only reasonable alternatives, so you may as well get the extra 18 seats for free!

[AirportPlanner1]

It also appears domestic passengers can be bussed to a separate entrance into the baggage reclaim hall.

There is already a separate entrance and reclaim belt though. From which you exit along a corridor which comes out next to the cafe.

[SWBKCB]

Blinking heck....another award listing.
Southend one of the "happiest airports" globally !!.
Space becoming obviously a premium on Stobart`s mantelpiece nowadays.. :)


Four of the world's eight happiest airports are in the UK (but none are in London) | City A.M. (http://www.cityam.com/277547/four-worlds-eight-happiest-airports-uk-but-none-london)

But sadly no London airports won... :=

[tws123]

Although SEN was the happiest London airport, and 6th in the world...

[Barling Magna]

Well done Exeter. Which airline is based there, I wonder.......?

[davidjohnson6]

Wideroe have announce a 4x weekly new route between Stansted and Kristiansand in Norway using a Dash 8 / Q400. Flights are Mon, Thu, Fri and Sun which suggests it will be leisure point-to-point focussed and start on 13-Aug-2018. Until then, Wideroe do not fly to any London airports.

This should have been an aircraft, airline and destination that was well within Southend's grasp and very much business that Southend should have been able to win

[DC3 Dave]

DJ6 Can't argue with anything you said. But it takes two to tango.

[mikkie4]

EZY & FLYBE going head to head to lyon on sat morning

[SEN Observer]

Five cancellations this afternoon/evening:
Manchester (2)
Dublin (1)
Glasgow (1)
Rennes (1)

What goes on? Has the expected fog arrived already at these locations? Anyone know?

[asdf1234]

METAR at SEN has 30% prob fog so they most probably didn't want to fly the outbound to find out they are stranded away from base?

[SEN Observer]

asdf1234 - thanks for that; sounds quite reasonable. Hope they don't regret the decision later!

[Expressflight]

Actually it's now PROB40 1800/2000 300m, then BECMG 2000/2200 300m.

[CCGE29]

MAN cancellations were due to Fog at Manchester today. 100M via this morning and hasn't improved much all day. This afternoon there was a runway closure due to essential maintenance on 23R whilst 23L has no ILS so was of no use in low vis.

[LTNman]

All of the easyjet’s made it back in tonight. BE cancelled as an over reaction to the fog that didn’t close Southend?

[HeliAl]

Flybe from Prague delayed 3hours due to the outbound diverting to Dresden.
Sat and watched it on arrival at Prague, entered the approach sector down to 4000ft then climbed out direct Dresden. Vis at the time 500m. Did not even enter the hold. Had it done so the vis went back up to 1200m within 10mins. All other aircraft, 170,737,320,319,DASH8 continued and landed.
Passengers of loaded in Dresden and sent by road to Prague (2 hours+).
No communication from Flybe regarding the issue at Prague. A few pissed off pax, Me included.
Flybe must be a VFR airline! Lol

[Barling Magna]

Three LCY diversions in to SEN this morning, two BA Cityflyer and one KLM; no doubt there will be more this evening.

[tophat27dt]

Plus 2 Flybe Dash8s. I was surprised the Swiss diverted all the way back to Geneva after only one missed approach. As a passenger I would rather get down at SEN or STN that return to point of departure. More low cloud and fog expected later but that might also affect SEN.

[DC3 Dave]

Can anyone update on the firefighters' dispute? I understand talks failed and they were due to walk out yesterday until the new year.

[Planespeaking]

I understand from another forum that the strike is on, but the airport operation is unaffected as the management have introduced contingency plans.

[Dontgothere]

I landed there yesterday at 2200 hours, no issue.

[Pain in the R's]

I understand from another forum that the strike is on, but the airport operation is unaffected as the management have introduced contingency plans.

Rent a fireman?

[mik3bravo]

Can any of SEN guys who are close to the airport ops and all things SEN provide some colour around what these contingency plans are?

[mikkie4]

October and November passenger figures are now available, looking good..DUBLIN.1229/8620. Man.316/3539..Glasgow.372/3023

[DC3 Dave]

Thanks for the figures mikkie4. Expressflight recently posted about 100,000 p.a. on the DUB route. Seems he was bang on the mark.

[tophat27dt]

The new Flybe/Stobart routes will need to improve a great deal.
During November, and I don't have the exact number of sectors they flew so I guessed them, the Manchester flights produced 3539 pax / 164 sectors = average load 21; the Glasgow 3023 pax/102 sectors = 30, and the Dublin 8620/164 = 52.
Does anybody with more knowledge know what the breakeven loads are on the E195 and ATR72, although I realise fares are probably in promotion mode as start-ups.
Please correct me if my figures above are wildly inaccurate.

[AirportPlanner1]

MAN was more like 23 per flight - 22.7 (32.4%)

For info, figures for today's flights are as follows:
48/48
27/47
15/39

GLA was 39.7 (33.7%). For me this looks the weakest.

DUB was 67.3 (57%) so not bad at all.

[Expressflight]

I would consider something around 10,000 for the first month of operations on SEN-DUB to represent a very successful re-launch of the route. Anything below 7,500 would be somewhat disappointing.

DC3 Dave

The above is what I actually said a couple of weeks ago so 8,620 for DUB in November is reasonable in my opinion. When the route was operated previously it proved quite seasonal in terms of demand so I would be looking for 12,000 per month next summer.

tophat27dt

The numbers aren't as low as that as you've over estimated the number of flights. I calculate a 58% load factor on DUB, 35% on GLA and 32% on MAN. While there's some work to do on GLA it's perhaps a slightly better number than I would have predicted. I assume SEN-MAN was launched partly to provide a through feed onto Flybe's extensive onward network; hence the 3 x daily schedule. If those connecting flight numbers don't meet expectations perhaps it might become the 2 x daily operation that it already is for most of January.

[tophat27dt]

Expressflight

thank you for updating my figures. I too think MAN will stay reduced to 2x daily until Easter. The loads for today, if on an ATR72, look quite good.

[mik3bravo]

Was on BE6257 Boxing Day for a 1830 departure to DUB. Push back +20 minutes from stand, though made up time enroute. Turbulent cruise as we transitioned weather which subsequently dumped snow in the UK.

91 pax on board.

[tophat27dt]

91 pax. That's very good. There was a time SEN didn't have any passenger flights 25th/26th December! Glad you survived the bumps Mikkie!

[Buster the Bear]

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/routes/southend-taps-into-new-traffic-12803

[DC3 Dave]

Oh dear! New year same old (ever delayed) predictions.

[Bjarte]

In April I will be flying GRQ - SEN - DUB, my very first transfer at Southend! I'm very curious about the transfer services at Southend. I have also been to Southend last year. At that time it was not possible to make an intentional transfer, Stobart/Flybe did not offer transfers back in the days.

But times have changed! Is it possible to go directly to the airside departure hall nowadays or do I have to go through security again?

[SWBKCB]

November stats:

Amsterdam 16,647 17,878 -6.9%
Dublin 8,620
Alicante 6,948 6,874 1.1%
Malaga 3,557 3,808 -6.6%
Prague 3,390
Rennes 3,198 3,372 -5.2%
Malta 2,903
Faro 2,892 2,989 -3.25
Arrecife 2,655 2,262 17.4%
Tenerife 2,645 2,769 -4.5%
Paris 2,021 3,133 -35.5%
Cologne 1,962
Groningen 1,899 2,112 -10.1%
Barcelona 1,874 1,830 2.4%
Budapest 1,140
Vienna 991
Lyon 515
Caen 0 794 -100.0%
Palma 0 378 -100.0%
Las palmas 0 1,862 -100.0%

Glasgow 3,023
Manchester 3,549

[phatbear]

Bjarte

You will have to go through immigration, past customs, after picking your bag up and make your way back through security.

there is a priority lane on the far right of the immigration hall which,in theory, you should be escorted down by a stobarts member of staff.

[Bjarte]

Ouch, that is disappointing. That is more like a 'do it yourself' transfer.

[Expressflight]

phatbear

Will not Bjarte's hold bag be checked through to DUB and transferred at SEN onto the DUB flight without him reclaiming it at SEN?

The Flybe website FAQ on that topic says it will but that you may need to show your baggage receipt at SEN check-in to facilitate this. If you are already in possession of a boarding pass for the DUB flight you should not have to do even this. Presumably the Flybe on-line check-in facility enables you to print out boarding passes for the two sectors.

I think the SEN website should make it clear exactly what the procedure is for connection flights, these not previously having been available at SEN.

[SARF]

It’s probably the first one !

[Expressflight]

On a related topic I'm pleased to see that the Minimum Connection Time at SEN has been reduced to 45 minutes from the previous 90 minutes which did seem excessive.

[Bjarte]

Correct, my connection is 60 minutes. Groningen Airport requested at SEN to reduce the MCT to make connections to DUB, MAN and GLA possible.

This is my journey:

https://static.afbeeldinguploaden.nl/1801/359995/iZkmJGjX.png

[Bee Rexit]

Latest news from Southends Echo.


www.echo-news.co.uk/news/15846929.Southend_Airport_hits_the_million_passenger_mark_as _numbers_jump_25_/

[LGS6753]

Did SEN never reach a million in its "golden era" of the sixties?

[Planespeaking]

No if I remember correctly it peaked at about 700,000 in '67/'68.

[davidjohnson6]

IGAvion to open a route to Chateauroux in central France from late April 2018

I imagine they will be focussing heavily on people living near Chateauroux who fancy a trip to London, those with second homes and the VFR sector. It's a rather rural area with limited inbound tourism demand

FlyKiss' route from Luton to Clermont-Ferrand does rather come to mind on this occasion though

[Barling Magna]

In 1967 692,686 passengers used Southend. In the same year 412,938 used Luton, 13,629 used Stansted, 1,954,272 used Gatwick and 12,433,542 used Heathrow. Outside London only Manchester, Glasgow and Belfast exceeded Sothend's passenger total in 1967 making Southend the UK's sixth busiest airport.

[Expressflight]

The Chateauroux (CHR) to Southend route will be operated twice weekly using Skytaxi Saab 340 equipment commencing 29th April 2018. Other destinations being served by the CHR based aircraft will be Lyon and Toulouse which commence at the end of March. It seems that Chateauroux-Centre airport are offering 'marketing support' to the operation. Fares from 49Euros one-way are mentioned but flights are not yet bookable on the 'airline's' website igavion.fr .

Later in the summer flights to Biarritz, Nice and Ajaccio will be added from CHR.

[davidjohnson6]

A rather minor comment but IGAvion have been 'flying' from Chateauroux to Nice since summer 2015. Ever since 2014 they have specialised in taking residents of rural areas in France (eg Angers, Chateauroux or Epinal) far from large airports to French beach towns. They used to fly from Dole as well - until the airport subsidy stopped.

[DC3 Dave]

In 1967 692,686 passengers used Southend. In the same year 412,938 used Luton, 13,629 used Stansted, 1,954,272 used Gatwick and 12,433,542 used Heathrow. Outside London only Manchester, Glasgow and Belfast exceeded Sothend's passenger total in 1967 making Southend the UK's sixth busiest airport.

I recall as a boy reading the Eagle magazine at that time. I clearly remember a reader's letter from an ambitious young chap called Glyn Jones who boldly predicted a bright future for Southend Airport, with passenger numbers rising to 2.5 million by 1970.

[Expressflight]

It seems that IGavion is at least a proper airline as it has been the trading name for the scheduled operations of Skytaxi since 2013. Skytaxi themselves have been operating since 2000.

[LTNman]

Congestion charge could be introduced for A127 in Basildon | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/15845582.Congestion_charge_could_be_introduced_for_A127/?ref=mr&lp=2)

That will go down well with Southend's passengers

[Barling Magna]

It seems that IGavion is at least a proper airline

Yes, operates a couple of Saab 340s. Would be an interesting addition to the SEN scene but hardly noticeable in terms of passenger numbers I suspect.

[Plane.Silly]

Congestion charge could be introduced for A127 in Basildon | Echo
That will go down well with Southend's passengers

Not unless they go by train, which is what everyone thinks they do, the way they rabbit on about it, (sensing a few smug faces as they choo choo by)

[tophat27dt]

Yes, operates a couple of Saab 340s. Would be an interesting addition to the SEN scene but hardly noticeable in terms of passenger numbers I suspect.


SEN needs everything they can get I think! Good luck for the new route.

[southender]

Seeing the latest figures prompted me to go into my archives and I've come up with the 1958 statistics, courtesy of Ian Allen ABC British Airports, 1959 edition.

Total aircraft movements through SEN amounted to 61,659, bettered only by LAP (as it was known then) at 129497, and Croydon at 64,656.

Air Transport Movements totaled 19,519 and was beaten by LAP 117,295, Manchester 26,722, Lydd (Ferryfield) 24,371 and only just by Glasgow (Renfrew) at 19,563.

Passengers passing through SEN in 1958 totaled 183,230, which placed us tenth, behind LAP, Manchester, Glasgow, Belfast (Nutts Corner), Lydd, Prestwick, Blackbushe, Gatwick and the Isle of Man.

Freight handled was 23,397.6 short tons, which placed SEN third in the country behind Lydd on 71,231.7 tons and LAP on 55,404.2 tons.

Interestingly, Luton is shown as having only 10 (yes 10) ATMs in the year with no passengers and Stansted 556 ATMs and 20,003 passengers.

How times have changed with the disappearance of many of the former historically great airports and the emergence of new ones but SEN has survived and hopefully will grow and continue to prosper in the future.

Good news today about the new operator and route, perhaps this will be the little snowball that starts the avalanche!

[DC3 Dave]

In 1967 692,686 passengers used Southend. In the same year 412,938 used Luton, 13,629 used Stansted, 1,954,272 used Gatwick and 12,433,542 used Heathrow. Outside London only Manchester, Glasgow and Belfast exceeded Sothend's passenger total in 1967 making Southend the UK's sixth busiest airport.


By my crude calculations, if Southend had managed to keep the same share of London passengers as it had in 1967, it would be handling around 7 million p.a. today. But given that only 10 years ago it seemed doomed, it's still quite remarkable that this year could see a doubling of that 1967 peak.

[LGS6753]

Thanks all for the interesting stats on passenger numbers.

As Southender points out, Luton had only 10 ATMs in 1958, but in those days it only had grass runways, the current runway was opened in 1960.

[LTNman]

More competition for Southend as a new direct Thameslink rail service starts this year from Rainham that will terminate at Luton.

[DC3 Dave]

That's Rainham Kent, not the Essex one.

[EssexMan61]

I think that Network Rail and Abellio Greater Anglia should hang their heads in shame over the truly pathetic - never ending - "Route Improvement" work on the Southend Vic line. It really is a total embarrassment. Just how many YEARS has it been going on now? We currently have NO proper service Mon - Thur evenings and - weekends? - do not even talk about it.

Is the new 24 hour light rail link to Luton Airport still due to open in 2020?

[LTNman]

That's Rainham Kent, not the Essex one.

I wondered how it was routed. Thank you clever man:ok:

Is the new 24 hour light rail link to Luton Airport still due to open in 2020?

2021. The enabling work has been taking place for a few months now so it should be being started soon.

[Barling Magna]

5000biz jet flights per year by 2022?

https://tinyurl.com/ycr4xbhx

[LTNman]

It sounds a lot but it should be very achievable as it is less than 14 movements per day. A FBO at Luton is renting spare airline stands until the end of March due to the demise of Monarch. Come April those stands which can hold several biz jet each will go back to the airport. There is still a large choice of alternative airports including Stansted, City, Farnbough, Biggin Hill, Cranfield and Oxford but only Stansted is 24 hour so Southend should do well.

[pabely]

Remember Northolt closes for a while this year which will push more everywhere else, I know wrong side of London but you never know if the experience is good?

[Bee Rexit]

More pictures here.....Not sure what look they are going for. Noticed all the smartening up of the old cargo entrance over the last month or so.

www.echo-news.co.uk/news/15867353.Pictures__The_plush_side_of_Southend_Airport_you_wo n_t_see___unless_you_own_a_jet/

[LTNman]

What! I had to look twice, so they have added a lookalike 17th century inglenook fireplace complete with a pile of logs to their FBO. It just needs now a Labrador lying in front of the fire and a pair of tweed slippers to compete the picture. I suppose the FBO terminal roof is made out of thatch.

Reminds me of I think Cork Airport that had, maybe still has, a peat fire in arrivals to remind the locals they had arrived home.

[DC3 Dave]

T.O.W.I.E!

With splendid timing, Stobart arranged for a showing of Goldfinger yesterday evening on ITV4, which features the exterior of the building.

[OSTpax]

Flybe to Antwerp AND Ostend later this year?

[tophat27dt]

There does seem to be plan to feed pax in from Ostend through to SEN and connect with their domestic routes.

[OSTpax]

Does FLYBE(Stobart) have enough planes because this was one of the reasons they mentioned for not flying to OST?

When are they supposed to start?

[LGS6753]

Log burner and brick chimney in a portakabin - very Essex!

[Planespeaking]

I have a log burner, an inglenook brick fireplace and in a 350 year old listed cottage.....in Essex!

But then I'm more interested in seeing SEN succeed rather than sneering at it!

[davidjohnson6]

Is Southend-Ostend actually going to happen or is just on a wish list ?
I would have thought that the route would be predominantly leisure oriented and would need to go on sale pretty soon to catch the S18 demand...

[DC3 Dave]

OSTpax posed the Ostend question following my Goldfinger post. In the film two Carvairs are being loaded quite likely before heading off to Ostend, as those aircraft did up to 80 times a week back then.

I not aware of any plans for Ostend to make a comeback.

[Expressflight]

Log burner and brick chimney in a portakabin - very Essex!

Portakabin? The building housing the new Stobart Jet Centre has been there as long as I can remember.

No need to worry though I'm sure it will make only minimal inroads into LTN's bizjet traffic, despite it's often quicker road journey to both the City and Docklands.

[tophat27dt]

The only hint came from a friend in Brugges who heard something on their radio station mentioning FlyBe from Ostend to Belfast, Manchester and Glasgow via London. I have not read anything in the Belgian press about such a scheme.

[LTNman]

I can see LTN’s biz jet traffic going into a decline in 2 years time as more aprons are planned to be turned into airline stands for the airport in 2020. This should create a good opportunity for Southend to become an established biz jet airport.

[asdf1234]

Portakabin? The building housing the new Stobart Jet Centre has been there as long as I can remember.

No need to worry though I'm sure it will make only minimal inroads into LTN's bizjet traffic, despite it's often quicker road journey to both the City and Docklands.

The new Jet Centre is housed in the old terminal building and has been refurbished to a very high standard including crew bedrooms, bathrooms, a large boardroom, kitchen prep, baggage screening and a very large and spacious lounge with the (infamous) log burner. I like it and on the opening night I heard nothing but praise from the assembled guests.

As for getting into the City and Docklands SEN is better located than TAG, Luton and Biggin. Stansted might just be quicker depending on the traffic on the M11 and of course City will always win that particular race. However, most London bound traffic wants to go to the West End and that is why the overcrowded ramp at Luton wins time and again!

SEN is aiming for 5,000 movements and whilst unlikely they will achieve that, I can see an increase over their current movements as news of the new facility starts to spread.

[Planespeaking]

Thankyou asdf1234 for your informed and positive comment on the Stobart Jet Centre. The main point will be the efficiency, quality of care and accessibility to London for high end customers that will count. 24 hour operations and low cost will also attract.

I hold no brief for Stobart, but they must be given credit for investing heavily in the SEN facility and deserve to succeed.

Meanwhile back to my log burner!

[tophat27dt]

The only hint came from a friend in Brugges who heard something on their radio station mentioning FlyBe from Ostend to Belfast, Manchester and Glasgow via London. I have not read anything in the Belgian press about such a scheme.


It is possible my friend heard publicity about the new Antwerp to SEN service starting later in the year, and the possibilities of fast road and rail connections between Ostend-Ghent-Antwerp, and UK connections from SEN, plus Dublin.

[canberra97]

It's more than likely possible but I think that you best ask your friend if that's what he was actually referring to as he will only be able to answer that!

[LTNman]

SEN is aiming for 5,000 movements and whilst unlikely they will achieve that, I can see an increase over their current movements as news of the new facility starts to spread.

Why is that so hard to achieve? Just 7 arrivals a day will mean 7 departures, which equals 5110 movements per year. Job done.

Thankyou asdf1234 for your informed and positive comment on the Stobart Jet Centre. The main point will be the efficiency, quality of care and accessibility to London for high end customers that will count. 24 hour operations and low cost will also attract.

The best Southend can hope for is that it will be as good as other FBO's but it won't be better. Remember some FBO's have their own immigration staff and customs while others have to ship the passengers to the passenger terminal. I would doubt Southend would have its own dedicated customs and immigration staff yet due to the cost.

Google "Signature Luton" and click on images to see what an FBO looks like without a fireplace.

Saying that there has been talk about the high FBO cost of using Luton now with some customers looking for a change of location.

[Expressflight]

LTNman

Yes, I agree with you that Signature at LTN have a superb facility that could surely hardly be bettered in terms of grandeur and opulence.

I'm sure though that there is a large segment of the market which is not really looking for that degree of luxury and might be happy with something more modest, there probably being a considerable difference in price between that and the SEN facility. As I said before I cannot see the Stobart Jet Centre making large inroads into LTN's traffic numbers but 5,000 mpa seems an achievable objective. My concern is that 'Stobart' and 'Southend' are not names that most potential users will recognise as meeting their needs adequately. It will need some heavy awareness marketing on Stobart's part to overcome this disadvantage I believe.

Regarding Customs and Immigration I don't think the pax have to be shipped to the passenger terminal for clearance at SEN although I stand open to be corrected on that one.

[LTNman]

My concern is that 'Stobart' and 'Southend' are not names that most potential users will recognise as meeting their needs adequately.

Yes that is the problem. Even a simple google search of "FBO's London" pulls up nothing for Southend although Lydd and Oxford appear with links.

Early days yet but maybe Stobart should let a recognised FBO take charge that will have many fingers in many pies with many contacts rather than trying to run every aspect of their Southend operation.

[Barling Magna]

Signature Luton certainly looks impressive. Apart from the business-like building their facilities even include milkshakes!

Now that's an idea - Stobart should enlist the services of Rossi's Ice Cream, that'll be a crowd puller.

[DC3 Dave]

We know that Stobart sought interest from established FBO's in 2016. Obviously, nothing came from any discussions at that time - if indeed any interest was shown.

But one thing about Stobart, they are nothing if not stubborn. Once they decide to do something, they're like a dog with a bone.

[Buster the Bear]

If Northolt's runway is still due to close this year for re-build, more exec jets needing an FBO for the London area.

[Expressflight]

Signature Luton certainly looks impressive. Apart from the business-like building their facilities even include milkshakes!

Now that's an idea - Stobart should enlist the services of Rossi's Ice Cream, that'll be a crowd puller.

That's exactly what Stobart had at the launch party; an old style Rossi's vendor's tricycle.

[SEN Observer]

This, from the Echo, appears to answer the question on customs clearance.

Southend Airport bosses said the centre is expected to cater for 5,000 flights in the next four years | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/15887702.Jet_Centre_welcomes_VIPs_to_Southend_Airport/)

[Expressflight]

If Northolt's runway is still due to close this year for re-build, more exec jets needing an FBO for the London area.

Northolt is supposed to be closing temporarily in Spring 2018 but no date nor length of the closure period has been given as far as I know. Incidentally, the airfield is closed to all civilian traffic on 25th, 26th and 30th January due to 'planned power outages'.

[pabely]

Most sources quoted a 8 month closure - but that was before a Royal Wedding was announced just up the road!

[tws123]

Carlisle flights are due to commence on 3 June 2018. No news of the operator or frequencies yet. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/lake-district-airport-to-open-for-passenger-flights-for-first-time-in-25-years-a3746946.html

[LTNman]

Glad to know that the government is spending my money wisely on a route when there is already an hourly train service to the capital.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Northolt is supposed to be closing temporarily in Spring 2018 but no date nor length of the closure period has been given as far as I know. Incidentally, the airfield is closed to all civilian traffic on 25th, 26th and 30th January due to 'planned power outages'.
Well that'll be Northolt slated for closure within 3 years then, in time honoured tradition. Mind you, always thought that Marham and Northolt would be the last 2 remaining RAF airfields; the former as Betty's own and the latter for sneaking politicians in and out on their nefarious activities!

[mikkie4]

SEN-CAX via Euston..£135.70 rtn takes just over 5 hrs....now which one I prefer

[DC3 Dave]

You're right mikkie4 SEN-CAX would be a good option for some. But Carlisle to London via Southend? CAX-LCY might stand a chance. Still, I'm not knocking Stobart. I certainly don't criticise them for taking advantage of whatever public funds they can get. Flights to Dublin and Belfast from CAX make more sense to me, but let's see what's on offer and at what price.

[tws123]

Doing a quick search for Monday 4th June, if you want to travel by train from London Euston to Carlisle during peak commuting hours (for example a day return business trip) it will cost you in excess of £200 return and take 4h 26mins each way.
Carlisle to London Euston return will cost roughly £120 and take between 4h 30 and 3h 30 (if a fast service) each way.

Looking at a potential flight from CAX to SEN, well we know that you won't have to arrive early at CAX (maybe an hour prior to your departure time tops). Then a 1h 20mins flight roughly, plus 1h 20mins max from landing at SEN (getting through terminal and catching train to Liverpool Street). That would equal a total journey time from Carlisle to Central London of roughly 3h 40mins. If the price is right it could persuade some people. I think the hassle free nature of both airports must be emphasised. So in terms of time difference a flight would be competitive.

[SWBKCB]

Glad to know that the government is spending my money wisely on a route when there is already an hourly train service to the capital.

A southerner moaning about govt spending on transport in the North? :eek:

[flight_mode]

We know that Stobart sought interest from established FBO's in 2016. Obviously, nothing came from any discussions at that time - if indeed any interest was shown.

But one thing about Stobart, they are nothing if not stubborn. Once they decide to do something, they're like a dog with a bone.

Also at EBACE in Geneva last year. The premier meeting place for all things related to business aviation.

Stobart had a big stand and trumpeted out the usual marketing phrases of “unrivalled convenience, Apollo chopper transfers, open 24/7, 365 days a year, London 45 minutes by train, no slot restrictions, good routings to save fuel, on-site immigration”.

Yet nothing came of it, which I would take as a signal that the market doesn’t want or need your product (for whatever reason). But no, not Stobart…. They doubled down, ignoring informed feedback from industry professionals. Stubborn indeed.

As for the Jet Centre interior…. Well this perfectly shows how Stobart have no clue what a business aviation customer wants! How hard can replicating a top-tier business lounge be? FFS it’s looks like a DFS store with the "Sale ends this weekend" banner cropped out. Fireplace, carpet, marble, wood, chrome, leather… it’s a technicoloured assault on the senses. One must wonder if their feet can still touch the bottom of the pool.

[inOban]

On the other hand, the train gives you uninterrupted work (or relaxation) time.

[asdf1234]

That's a bit harsh FM. Most punters don't use the lounge, they walk straight through (via the baggage screen) to the aircraft. It's the pilots and hostesses that use the lounge whilst they are waiting for the punter. For them the lounge at SEN is warm, comfortable and inviting.

[fairflyer]

On the business aviation front, the proximity of the train station is an irrelevance for the passengers, nobody ever uses the train. Might be useful for the crews. Of the central London-destined or originated business aviation passengers, a fairly small proportion are heading for the City/Canary Warf/Docklands, far more heading for Kensington, Knightsbridge, Belgravia etc. - west to north-west of the centre. The drive to/from Southend is a good 35 minutes plus more to those areas vs. say Luton. Fuel price is important, outweighs any cheap landing/handling offer. Trouble is Southend has had and promoted their business aviation handling facility for many years - nothing has changed other than they now have a wood-burning stove for the crew to stare at...

[Expressflight]

fairflyer

You make a good point regarding SEN's additional driving time to the West End and that is bound to have an effect. But what is the size of the LON market in terms of business aviation - around 100,000mpa isn't it? It would seem that Stobart, internally at least, recognise their limitations by setting a target of just 5,000mpa in 4 years time.

I don't agree that "nothing has changed". It certainly has on the ground as far as the facility is concerned whether one appreciates the decor or not and what I always felt lacking in the past was the management drive and the funding to market the facility adequately. Perhaps this time that aspect will be properly managed. Time will tell.

[DC3 Dave]

Here's a question. Is demand growing for business aviation? I would have thought with shareholders increasingly challenging remuneration / perks for Head Honchos and senior people, and the taxman ready to jump on anyone trying to evade/avoid VAT etc when purchasing the means to fly; not forgetting a groundswell of disgust against those who prosper beyond normal folks' dreams, even when they offer little or nothing to those at the bottom of the food chain, then it would be surprising if there was huge growth in demand.

I don't know the answer, most of you will. Demand will be a key factor in SEN's prospects though.

[tws123]

The Carlisle based aircraft will operate the following schedule:

CAX-SEN
SEN-CAX
CAX-BHD
BHD-CAX
CAX-DUB
DUB-CAX
CAX-SEN
SEN-CAX

So it will be possible to spend the day in London/Lake District.

[OSTpax]

Ostend-Southend used to be very popular in the past.
Don't understand why nobody tried to restart the line in the past.
Ryanair tried it at Stansted a few years ago but wanted a occapancy of 80%(had a average of 70%) with timings not so favourable and with a way too large aircraft.

A ATR600 or even Embraer 195 would be more suitable for a flight under one hour.

[BFS BHD]

Has it been confirmed that it will be Belfast International they will fly into from Carlisle?

[Pain in the R's]

That's a bit harsh FM. Most punters don't use the lounge, they walk straight through (via the baggage screen) to the aircraft. It's the pilots and hostesses that use the lounge whilst they are waiting for the punter. For them the lounge at SEN is warm, comfortable and inviting.

They just need a bucket of horse chestnuts to roast in the fire and Southend will have cracked the FBO market.

On a serous note it does look like someones country cottage with the fireplace, log fire, furniture and decorations and not at all like an FBO. Great place to go though in the festive season if they pipe Last Christmas around the building and put up a Christmas tree.

[fjencl]

What are the flight times ?

[AirportPlanner1]

Ostend-Southend used to be very popular in the past.
Don't understand why nobody tried to restart the line in the past.
Ryanair tried it at Stansted a few years ago but wanted a occapancy of 80%(had a average of 70%) with timings not so favourable and with a way too large aircraft.

A ATR600 or even Embraer 195 would be more suitable for a flight under one hour.

I'm not sure it had an occupancy as high as that. It was served by the Buzz 146s, not the 738. And fares were rarely higher than about £20.

[tws123]

I will correct my post as it is Belfast City airport that will be connected not Belfast International. The flight times are still to be confirmed. All that has been said is the rotations per day and that the London Airport will be SEN (surprise surprise).

[Expressflight]

The Carlisle based aircraft will operate the following schedule:

CAX-SEN
SEN-CAX
CAX-BHD
BHD-CAX
CAX-DUB
DUB-CAX
CAX-SEN
SEN-CAX

So it will be possible to spend the day in London/Lake District.

In January 2009, at the time that Stobart were in the process of buying CAX, I produced for SEN a detailed proposal to connect CAX with SEN to form part of an operation similar to the above but with SEN as the radial point during the day.

CAX-SEN
SEN-AMS
AMS-SEN
SEN-CFR
CFR-SEN
SEN-AMS
AMS-SEN
SEN-CAX

Possible operators were VLM, Aer Arann or Eastern using F50, S2000 or ATR42 with flights bookable through to AMS for CAX passengers. I notice that I stated "Obviously the infrastructure for commencing services between CAX and SEN is some way from being in place ...." It's taken some time hasn't it!

[OSTpax]

I'm not sure it had an occupancy as high as that. It was served by the Buzz 146s, not the 738. And fares were rarely higher than about £20.
Hi, need to correct you on this one.
They flew with a 737-300(or 200).

[AirportPlanner1]

No I need to correct you. I flew on it. Twice.

[SWBKCB]

Stobart (actually WA Developments) bought Carlisle airport in April 2006, and were talking about scheduled flights then (though Luton was the first proposed route). As I think DC3 Dave said, nowt but persistent!

[Expressflight]

You may be right that WA Developments, Andrew Tinkler's company, bought CAX in 2006 but I think it was sold to Stobart Group in 2009.

[SWBKCB]

I thought they were all part of the same group - certainly they were talking about a Stobart HQ on site when it was bought.

[OSTpax]

No I need to correct you. I flew on it. Twice.

My sincere apologies, you are right.
Ryanair used 21 times, in their 8 months operations at OST, a BAe 146-300 from Buzz airlines.
Mostly in October 2003.

[tws123]

Two airlines are in discussions with Stobart Air about the CAX services. Hopefully will be announced in the next couple of weeks.

[AirportPlanner1]

VLM? Eastern? DAT? The latter have the right equipment and flew for Stobart previously

[SWBKCB]

We are talking to a couple of airlines. We have Stobart Air in our back pocket but it may be that another airline or aircraft type might work better in the early years of operation. We have to make sure that we get our predictions right and have the right sort of aircraft for the right sort of volumes to the right sort of places. It is more about getting the right size of plane, the right destination and the frequency. We will be announcing the carrier very early in the New Year. We are not looking at using 737s at the start, they will be a lot smaller.

This is the quote from the end of last year from Stobart - I think most people (including me!) have read it as meaning initially it will be smaller than an Atr (and Stobart have previously quoted the flights as being done by an Atr-42).

[mik3bravo]

Dornier 328 Jet (not the TP) will be the ideal a/c for that route.

Which airline could fit the bill with this airframe or under wet lease? BA?

328 jet (https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english_uk&rais=1&oiu=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons %2F6%2F60%2FDornier_328_Jet_%2528Sun_Air%2529.jpg&sp=544c35364f89c2894464da743d6d82f3)

General characteristics

Crew: three (two pilots + flight attendant)
Capacity: 30 to 33 passengers, Max payload 3,266 kg (7,200 lb)
Length: 21.11 m (69 ft 3 in)
Wingspan: 20.98 m (68 ft 10 in)
Height: 7.24 m (23 ft 9 in)
Wing area: 40.0 m2 (431 sq ft)
Empty weight: 9,420 kg (20,768 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 15,660 kg (34,524 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PW306B , 26.9 kN (6,000 lbf) thrust each
Performance

Maximum speed: 750 km/h (466 mph; 405 kn)
Range: 3,705 km (2,302 mi; 2,001 nmi) with optional long range fuel tank
Service ceiling: 11,000 m (35,000 ft)

[SWBKCB]

No mention of cost in any of those numbers.

[onion]

BA don't own the 328 Jet!
Why not the TP version? They are fast for a turbo prop and probably cheaper than the jet to operate.

[BAladdy]

BA don’t but BA’s franchise Sun-Air do.

[Buster the Bear]

Currently undergoing conversion at Coventry into passenger configuration.

http://i63.tinypic.com/2vuk8w5.jpg

[Planespeaking]

If that was ever utilised on a schedule between SEN and CAX it would never be short of pax!

[SWBKCB]

"Bring back the Dak!" - where do I book? :ok:

[SEN Observer]

Has Stobart now actually taken over the E195 planes from Flybe? There are three E195 at SEN this morning, G-FBEF, EH and EI. Do we know if these are now permanently the SEN allocation?

[Jerry123]

Stobart Air now own all 3 i believe.

[southside bobby]

Interestingly CAA website GINFO states all 3 a/c are OWNED by Flybe Ltd & OPERATED by Stobart Air.

[SEN Observer]

southside bobby - perhaps the GINFO site needs to be updated? I don't know; only suggesting it MAY be out of date. Depends how recently Stobart acquired these 3 E195s (if indeed they have).

[Jerry123]

I'm sure Stobart bought 3 of Flybe's E195s for £54 million?

[Expressflight]

Jethro's lists the three aircraft that Stobart have bought as being G-FBEH, EM & EN so I should imagine that the presence at SEN today of G-FBEH plus EF & EI is purely coincidental.

[cumbrianboy]

Stobart have the aircraft on dry lease from FlyBe at the moment.

The 3 that have been bought are still leased to FlyBe and due to be returned in the spring/summer. When this happens then Stobart will take ownership and the aircraft on dry lease are returned. So it is possible that in the interim there will be a few aircraft swaps to cover planned maintenance etc

[compton3bravo]

You are saying Cumbrian that it is dry lease, so Stobart are employing there own crews with the relevant SOPs etc is that correct?

[cumbrianboy]

yes that is correct, they are now operating on the Stobart AOC and stobart are using their own SOPs, own crew etc.

[Jersey32D]

As has already been suggested, FBEI was flown in to cover for FBEH on maintenance in Birmingham, as part of the lease agreement with Flybe to cover for maintenance...

[tayair6]

FBEI is at MAN for Flybe and the FBEH is still at SEN as normal rotation

[southside bobby]

Curiouser & curiouser...
BEE released their financial update today & stated..... "BEE`s commercial agreement with STK to operate 2 E195`s under a dry lease arrangement from London Southend began during the quarter".

So 2 frames not 3...& no mention by them of a sale of E jets in the streamlining of their fleet.

A search on GINFO for the last 3 mentioned airframes FBEH FBEM FBEN all are quoted as OWNED by Flybe Ltd & just one FBEH is stated as OPERATED by Stobart Air.

No trace of transference of ownership of any BEE E jet in the last 12 months within the UK either in separate listings.

[Expressflight]

The Southend-Chateauroux flights are now on sale on the IGavion website. Days of operation from 26/4 to 14/6 are Thursday & Sunday with departure SEN at 1955 & 1240 respectively. From 17/6 to 28/8 days of operation are Tuesday & Sunday with departure SEN at 1605 & 0905 respectively. Prices are from 49 Euros one-way including a 12kg hold baggage allowance.

[DC3 Dave]

Had a look at the airport (CHR). Developed a severe case of runway envy.

[SWBKCB]

They've plenty of room - not much else around!

[Expressflight]

I flew into CHR in an Aztec around 1985 and it was very quiet. My wife and I spent 4 days there and returned to the airport to await the arrival of our aircraft from SEN. Unfortunately our Ops had forgotten to get PPR so when the aircraft landed we were promptly arrested! Luckily the inbound charter pax (French) were able to smooth things over. You could say that I was slightly annoyed when I got back to the office at SEN.

[Barling Magna]

Prices are from 49 Euros one-way including a 12kg hold baggage allowance.

Crikey, that's a reasonable fare for a little SAAB 340.

[Barling Magna]

Has SEN really lost King Power International as a client? Those biz jets have been a real boost to the airport's coffers.

[tayair6]

Yes it has lost KP. His jet 737bbj gone over to LTN over this weekend

[Barling Magna]

So much for their much heralded new business centre. How could they let that happen.....?

[tophat27dt]

Needs to negotiate better in future. But tot up the income, is it worth getting upset about? I know every little counts and we try to beat the bigger airports, but its not the end of the world.

[Expressflight]

Having run an executive handling operation at SEN in the 1980s I know how demanding some clients can be. I'm not saying this is the case here but sometimes 'demanding' becomes more than that and it's best to mutually agree that you're just not meeting their needs. For example if you don't jump immediately a client says so (something he expects is his due and he may well be right) due to having insufficient staff on hand and he gets upset, do you decide to provide more staff or let him go? Much easier to do the former once the facility is established and you can better predict demand than while you're trying to build up the business.

[asdf1234]

I've had problems getting the fuel truck out to client's aircraft in the past as Stobarts seem to prioritise EasyJet and Flybe. With just 2 bowsers it may be that King Power got fed up with being at the bottom of the fuel pecking order?