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Barling Magna
17th Sep 2017, 17:53
This is a very positive view of SEN from a travel article on the Sun "newspaper" website:

"FROM Roman Emperors to Hollywood movie stars, Lake Como has a long history as a hangout for the rich and famous. So, as I was on my way to Italy’s most fashionable holiday hotspot, it was only natural I received a VIP airport experience. I left my motorbike in front of the terminal, waltzed through security without queuing then had a fancy meal while waiting for my flight.
No, George Clooney hadn’t invited me to his lakeside villa on a private jet — I was just another passenger at Southend Airport, where even economy-class customers feel like a million dollars.
Recently rated the best airport serving the capital by Which? Southend makes flying such a doddle that you’ll never want to set foot in a full-size airport again. With a customer rating of 84 per cent — 16 per cent more than any airport in London — the short-haul terminal feels like something from the golden age of air travel.
Security staff are plentiful and friendly, you can park within walking distance of the check-in desk or catch a 45-minute train from central London, and this year saw the opening of Bourgee Bites-Bar-Luxe Lounge, a classy joint adding glamour to the tiny airport. Billed as “affordable luxury”, the bar opens from 4am every day, serving a range of cocktails, champagne, brunch and mouth-watering teaser-style dishes. Don’t board your flight before scoffing an order of maple-and-sesame beef bits with soy-and-lime dipping sauce.
It was two and a half hours to Milan….."


As LTNman would no doubt be quick to point out, such an excellent experience is unlikely to continue if SEN becomes much busier, but at the moment all seems well.

asdf1234
18th Sep 2017, 18:37
Reference the Sun article:

Parking next to the terminal and walking in just a couple of minutes: Tick!

Good security experience: I've posted here before that I've been stopped everytime I've gone through, either for carrying a BlackBerry or "we're choosing you at random Sir". So I can't tick that box. Others however most probably can. I'm a white, middle aged, middle class male travelling on business and therefore a prime target for suspicious security employees looking out for passenger safety.

Bourgees: please, did the hack eat there? No table service, only queueing at the bar to be met with insolent indifference by the pre-adolescent staff. McDonald's train their staff better. And then there is the small (or huge, depending on which way you look at it) matter of the pricing of the food and drinks.

45 minutes from Central London:It simply isn't. Get a train from SEN Airport to Stratford (not central London but doesn't matter) and you won't do it in 45 mins. Simply a tired hack rehashing false advertising by the airport.

I don't read The Sun but millions do. I understand the article was written for those "millions" but even so, what happened to journalistic integrity?

asdf1234
18th Sep 2017, 18:53
Reference the Sun article:

Parking next to the terminal and walking in just a couple of minutes: Tick!

Good security experience: I've posted here before that I've been stopped everytime I've gone through, either for carrying a BlackBerry or "we're choosing you at random Sir". So I can't tick that box. Others however most probably can. I'm a white, middle aged, middle class male travelling on business and therefore a prime target for suspicious security employees looking out for passenger safety.

Bourgees: please, did the hack eat there? No table service, only queueing at the bar to be met with insolent indifference by the pre-adolescent staff. McDonald's train their staff better. And then there is the small (or huge, depending on which way you look at it) matter of the pricing of the food and drinks.

45 minutes from Central London:It simply isn't. Get a train from SEN Airport to Stratford (not central London but doesn't matter) and you won't do it in 45 mins. Simply a tired hack rehashing false advertising by the airport.

I don't read The Sun but millions do. I understand the article was written for those "millions" but even so, what happened to journalistic integrity?

And just to show how inaccurate the Sun journo was with his 45 minutes to central London here is a quote from the train operator's website:

Greater Anglia is the rail provider within East Anglia and runs the train service between Southend Airport and Stratford or London Liverpool Street.

Why choose the train from Southend Airport?
Fast: Central London in 55 minutes, Stratford in 45 minutes

So let's read that again.

CENTRAL LONDON IN 55 MINUTES

That's a fact from the operator. I submit that they rarely do it in 55 mins but why does a Sun journalist chose to ignore the operator's own declaration on the travel time and reduce it to 45mins?

One might argue that the airport management and the Sun journo had shared a glass of wine or two - but not me.

LTNman
18th Sep 2017, 19:58
You would think that after years of praise from passengers and press alike that Southend would be somewhat busier than it is. There still seems to be a reluctance from passengers and airlines to make that leap of faith but as already stated when that day comes the Southend experience could well get a little tarnished. Controlled growth is the way to go but no airport is going to turn an airline away just to give its passengers a better experience.

01475
18th Sep 2017, 21:58
The Southend PR chap/ess is doing their job well these days =b

I mean if they wanted to be super accurate they could factor in plane to station time + average waiting time for a train, adjust for expected delays, and estimated tube travel from Liverpool St (who wants to be there, right?) to Buck House or something. And for good measure they could point out that of course Southend is as London as fly in the air.

But... that's not what a PR person is there for, is it? They're there to make the airport look good, come up with facts for growth that's 300%, ... yes?

AirportPlanner1
18th Sep 2017, 22:07
Stratford is actually a destination nowadays though....OK it's not for everyone but as the Royal Academy and whatever else plus new hotels open up in the coming years the appeal will only grow.

The previous Mayor of London got Zone 2 moved to make Stratford more 'central'.

Expressflight
19th Sep 2017, 06:01
asdf123

Do you really expect a tabloid newspaper story to be accurate? You expect "journalistic integrity" from the Sun!

As a matter of fact the train journey time to Stratford averages out at 46 minutes and that to Liverpool Street at 56 minutes. I don't quite understand you saying that "... you won't do it in 45 minutes." Many times you'll do it in that or less. I'm travelling by train to SEN this morning and returning tomorrow afternoon so I'll make a note of the actual times taken and report back.

I've never been stopped at security so maybe I'm just lucky and I've only once or twice seen anyone else stopped, Mind you it's so fast through there that you rarely have the time to notice what is happening to other passengers.

I find Bourgees OK and the staff have been pleasant enough to me. Yes, its a food bar but there is plenty of seating right in front of it. As far as the cost is concerned I don't expect cheap at any airport and am not usually disappointed in that assumption.

LTNman
19th Sep 2017, 08:14
So tomorrow sees Easyjet release its flight schedule until 24th June 2018.

4th based aircraft anyone?

Andy_S
19th Sep 2017, 08:14
You would think that after years of praise from passengers and press alike that Southend would be somewhat busier than it is.

I think the “lovely airport to travel through” argument is greatly overstated. Luton, after all, is highly successful despite it’s appalling reputation. What passengers generally want are competitive fares, convenient flight times and frequency, and it’s surprising (or perhaps not) what they’ll put up with.

DC3 Dave
19th Sep 2017, 08:53
LTN has an appalling reputation, STN is trying hard to catch up with them, yet they keep growing at levels that at times seem staggering. Personally, I think it's just down to the fact that operators see those airports as having a much greater chance of success for their own expansion plans than SEN, which will be regarded as being a higher risk for limited return.

But none of the above means that the airport should abandon its efforts in trying to be a cut above the rest, nor should they be modest about their achievements. But unfortunately, all the pluses have failed to bring the growth that seems to come all so easily elsewhere.

I still think there's hope.

asdf1234
19th Sep 2017, 10:57
As a matter of fact the train journey time to Stratford averages out at 46 minutes and that to Liverpool Street at 56 minutes. I don't quite understand you saying that "... you won't do it in 45 minutes." Many times you'll do it in that or less. I'm travelling by train to SEN this morning and returning tomorrow afternoon so I'll make a note of the actual times taken and report back.

Let's hope you weren't on this morning's 10:55 departure from the airport which got to Stratford in 51 minutes and just got into Liverpool Street in 60 minutes.

No more train stories from me - the mods have shown their dislike of trains on here previously.

LTNman
19th Sep 2017, 15:25
Trains are intrinsically linked to airports with rail links. A couple of weeks ago due to a semi fast cancellation I had a Southend type experience to London with a train that stopped at every station. Total journey time was around 43 minutes but it felt like it took all day.

SEN Observer
19th Sep 2017, 15:31
Don't know what's happening this afternoon, but the 14:50 Budapest pushed/started on time and taxied to the end of 05 and lined up. The pilot was "not quite ready" and asked for a couple of minutes and then another couple of minutes. Still not ready and told to vacate runway (as there was an aircraft on the approach) and park in stand 6. To the best of my knowledge still there.

The extension to car park 2 is still fenced off but looks to be ready for use.

There is now further work taking place at two points between the Business Jet terminal and Eastwoodbury Crescent. Don't know what's happening there but some paving is being removed near the terminal and some hard standing being dug up near the exit to Eastwoodbury Crescent. They sure are spending some money on the place!

LTNman
As has been pointed out before, no trains from SEN stop at all stations - most off peaks are non-stop from Shenfield to Stratford with one an hour calling additionally at Romford. That means that most of them miss 11 stations

SEN Observer
19th Sep 2017, 15:43
Except on Sundays when they only miss 6. Forgot about that!!

tws123
19th Sep 2017, 17:47
I wondered if SEN would do something in light of FR's mess up, and here it is - London Southend airport is offering free flights to Ryanair passengers whose flights have been cancelled - but there's a catch - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/cheap-flights/london-southend-airport-offering-free-11199602)

LTNman
20th Sep 2017, 11:33
With easyjet releasing flights until 28 June 2018 I take it that there was no merit in the rumour about a 4th based aircraft?

DC3 Dave
20th Sep 2017, 11:46
You may be right LTNman, but new routes commencing 2018 from anywhere have not yet been announced (As far as I know).

southside bobby
20th Sep 2017, 11:51
In a possible dilution of traffic for the proposed Powdair service,Swiss have added further service from LHR...their weekly schedule will now run thru both Jan & Feb 18..

AirportPlanner1
20th Sep 2017, 12:21
The schedule suggests no 4th aircraft, no new routes as there are no usable gaps and an overall reduction in flights as PMI is back to using a SEN frame. The only thing that may give faint hope to some is that there are some quite big gaps between flights, e.g. 2h15 on a Thursday and 1h45 on a Saturday.

southside bobby
20th Sep 2017, 12:32
& with credit to a poster on the STN thread STN retains 7 EZY a/c with this release....

daz211
20th Sep 2017, 12:40
& with credit to a poster on the STN thread STN retains 7 EZY a/c with this release....

I'm not surprise EZY are sticking to 7 at STN
They have never had much of a back bone or fight in them
They have let Jet2 come in and take over EZY as No2 at STN
I don't see EZY keeping 7a/c at STN for long they will gradually get pushed out by jet2 this could be good news for SEN in the future

southside bobby
20th Sep 2017, 13:19
daz211....perhaps or perhaps NOT...EZY co-exist quite happily with EXS say at MAN another MAG airport...The decamping game to periphery airports is not in their interests ultimately,they require visibility & engagement in which will be the largest growth airport & market certainly in the South & possibly in the UK namely STN..Another factor is MAG itself,it was under BAA ownership that the three STN based units together with three crews for each & certain routes were lost to SEN,I would suggest MAG & certainly more so now with a re bolstered team & approach to driving growth are a much more formidable airport landlord than was the case in the BAA past..Recent examples have been Primera which a LTN poster has stated LTN tried v hard for...Jet2 which every airport in the SE wanted & now perhaps AZA which again a certain LTN poster thought had been bagged...Not to mention still then no 4th EZY SEN unit after we had been assured on here that it was a done deal..

LTNman
20th Sep 2017, 13:40
LTN was not in a position to offer Jet2 anything either this year or even next year as their operation was too large. For Jet2 it was Stansted or nothing so for MAG it was not much of a battle.

southside bobby
20th Sep 2017, 13:48
Hmmmmmm:hmm:

_aax1
20th Sep 2017, 14:04
Jet2 will not be No 2 airline at STN next year, they will have approx 20 flights a day where as EZY will have 30+. Although Jet2 will have 3 more aircraft they do 2 rotations where as Ezy do 3.

It will be interesting in the future as EZY's key strategy is being the No1 or No2 position at any airport they are based at. Hence why they have given up on HAM.

No airframes will move from STN to SEN, they're totally different markets as EZY has realised by the trial and error of routes from SEN that have come and gone. They've already made the mistake of moving a 4th. They have realised SEN is a bucket and spade niche with the ability to achieve really decent yields on those summer routes and some low frequency city destinations compared to the main London airports. STN is key to EZY's domestic strategy with routes fit around those schedules. With long serving 'random' routes like LJU, BIO, OVD still achieving good yields.

daz211
20th Sep 2017, 15:06
Jet2 will not be No 2 airline at STN next year, they will have approx 20 flights a day where as EZY will have 30+. Although Jet2 will have 3 more aircraft they do 2 rotations where as Ezy do 3.

It will be interesting in the future as EZY's key strategy is being the No1 or No2 position at any airport they are based at. Hence why they have given up on HAM.

No airframes will move from STN to SEN, they're totally different markets as EZY has realised by the trial and error of routes from SEN that have come and gone. They've already made the mistake of moving a 4th. They have realised SEN is a bucket and spade niche with the ability to achieve really decent yields on those summer routes and some low frequency city destinations compared to the main London airports. STN is key to EZY's domestic strategy with routes fit around those schedules. With long serving 'random' routes like LJU, BIO, OVD still achieving good yields.

I would argue jet2 are no2 at STN offering more based a/c and more routes on offer and I bet jet2 will carry more passengers in 2018
My main point is Easyjet are stagnant they don't have any fight or or imagination when it comes to routes.

rowly6339
20th Sep 2017, 17:04
SEN 5 what happened?

Red Four
20th Sep 2017, 17:47
SEN 5 what happened?
It's still there, somewhere: http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/542840-southend-5-a-135.html?highlight=southend
Now my maths is a bit rusty, but Southend-6 would seem a more logical title for the current thread.:ok:

Expressflight
21st Sep 2017, 07:02
Let's hope you weren't on this morning's 10:55 departure from the airport which got to Stratford in 51 minutes and just got into Liverpool Street in 60 minutes.

No, I wasn't on that service. My train on Tuesday took 52 minutes from Liverpool Street and 45 minutes from Stratford to SEN and yesterday 44 minutes from SEN to Stratford and 53 minutes to Liverpool Street. Both ran on time.

Spanish eyes
21st Sep 2017, 08:21
Stansted Express is bad enough but this seems like a slow crawl to me which emphasises Southend's distance from the heart of London

DC3 Dave
21st Sep 2017, 09:48
Stansted Express is bad enough but this seems like a slow crawl to me which emphasises Southend's distance from the heart of London

It takes 46 mins minimum from LHR T1-3 to Liverpool St, and I guarantee plane to train will be quicker at SEN. But it that's not going to persuade anyone to fly into a minor airport in Essex. If it took 10-15 minutes, that might be a different story. In order for Southend to be taken seriously as a destination it has to be served by several airlines from a healthy spread of major cities. Can't see that happening, so it needs to focus on what it's good at: providing flights to places that people want to go and gradually persuading the heavily populated catchment area that it's a really good option if the right flight at the right price is available.

Spanish eyes
21st Sep 2017, 10:48
And 1 hour 32 minutes to Paddington while the Heathrow Express is something like 15 minutes.

Regardless of travel times it is more about perception. Commuter rolling stock and trains that stop at every station does not make for a good travel experience.

Not doubting for a moment that once at the airport Southend shines like no other London Airport but then it should due to its passenger levels.

SEN Observer
21st Sep 2017, 13:43
Spanish eyes - please read and digest my posts #13 and #14. May I suggest we now stop talking about trains before it leads to the closure of this thread? Thank you.

southside bobby
21st Sep 2017, 14:50
Mr T sells 1m Stobart Group shares...

Planespeaking
21st Sep 2017, 15:19
Mr T sells 1m Stobart Group shares...

And your point is from this cryptic post?

davidjohnson6
21st Sep 2017, 15:27
Effective 28-Feb-2017, Andrew Tinkler had an interest in 29 million shares in Stobart Group

Source - page 69 of
http://www.stobartgroup.co.uk/images/group/reports/2017/26063_Stobart_AR17_AW.pdf

asdf1234
21st Sep 2017, 15:35
And your point is from this cryptic post?

To be precise Tinkler had put up just over 36% of his share holding in Stobart Group for sale subject to getting the price he wanted.

Only 1m of the shares fetched his min pricing. He did this the day before trading for company execs in Stobart shares is suspended for the close period.

Some might see his attempt to sell as a forewarning of losses to be revealed in the year end accounts. If he knew the accounts would reveal a sudden jump in profits he may well buy the day before the close period starts.

So Southside Bobby not being cryptic at all but pointing out the results will likely be worse than anyone could imagine...

southside bobby
21st Sep 2017, 15:36
planespeaking...it is not a cryptic post it is an actual statement of FACT.Fact enough for a Cumbrian rag to carry the story,oops sorry the FACT that Mr T of Carlisle & Southend endeavours has sold 1m shares & that is how it has been part reported...end of...Nought more for me to add...Please be a good chap & stop picking up on all that I type eh..

SWBKCB
21st Sep 2017, 15:39
And here's the link.

Andrew Tinkler sells Stobart Group shares | News & Star (http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/business/Andrew-Tinkler-sells-Stobart-Group-shares-be1da1a3-22ab-4973-b8ae-287ce896a96f-ds)

SARF
21st Sep 2017, 20:05
So.. he has sold shares so he can invest personally in what stobart capital , Party of stobart group, is getting up to..
So he is either cashing in under cover, doing what the rest of the board told him to do or he has seen a killing stobart capital is about to make and wants in ..
it's one of the three

cumbrianboy
22nd Sep 2017, 14:31
Historically, O'Leary sold chunks of his shares in Ryanair and (present situation notwithstanding) it was seen as perfectly normal and not an indicator of dire profit warnings ... why should it be different with Stobart?

Spanish eyes
22nd Sep 2017, 15:26
Spanish eyes - please read and digest my posts #13 and #14. May I suggest we now stop talking about t*****s before it leads to the closure of this thread? Thank you.

That particular moderator died last year. :( I believe the replacement one is a bit more relaxed but I can't speak for him of course.

asdf1234
22nd Sep 2017, 16:41
Stop talking about what?

Spanish eyes
22nd Sep 2017, 16:55
Can’t say, just in case, but the answer lies on the last page. :oh:

asdf1234
22nd Sep 2017, 17:30
OK. I think the rumours from this week's goings on at SEN and STOB point towards the advice to prepare yourself for bad news. Given that we post on a Rumour Network that should be OK for the the Mods.

Barling Magna
24th Sep 2017, 10:47
Southend airport: Could it become London's most convenient transport hub? | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/southend-airport-security-queue-wait-times-london-flights-glyn-jones-stobart-a7962041.html)

asdf1234
25th Sep 2017, 06:27
OK. I think the rumours from this week's goings on at SEN and STOB point towards the advice to prepare yourself for bad news. Given that we post on a Rumour Network that should be OK for the the Mods.

Invesco are selling too. Something is happening at Stobart Group. I guess the full year results contain the answer and we will just have to wait for their publication.

Expressflight
27th Sep 2017, 07:21
It might just be my pre-breakfast bleary eyes but at least Thursday and Saturday in August seems to show four aircraft are needed with late night arrivals from FAO, AMS, AGP & MLA on the former and FAO, IBZ, AGP & MJV on the latter. All those seem to be operated by SEN-based aircraft.

runwayman
27th Sep 2017, 08:18
There maybe an announcement sometime today

AirportPlanner1
27th Sep 2017, 08:21
Interesting. I did post this last week:

"The only thing that may give faint hope to some is that there are some quite big gaps between flights, e.g. 2h15 on a Thursday and 1h45 on a Saturday."

This suggested to me that a 4th aircraft could still be a possibility, as I found it hard to believe the aircraft would sit there that long. My hunch was that the aircraft would head off somewhere unpublished after 30-40 mins on the ground and another aircraft would operate the flights cited.

DC3 Dave
27th Sep 2017, 09:24
They've certainly been shuffling the pack. I'm going to Malaga next May, and was surprised to find the flight has been changed to 1645 from the long established 1025.

AirportPlanner1
27th Sep 2017, 09:53
I see the additional FAO flights only show as operating from 26/28 July. So maybe more to come, maybe an error. If it was a 4th aircraft only for the summer holidays I'm not sure why only FAO would be showing extra frequency and not the other beach destinations.

EssexMan61
27th Sep 2017, 13:28
So - the evening flight to PMI on the Palma based aircraft has bitten the dust? (1920 arr. SEN 1945dep SEN).

Expressflight
27th Sep 2017, 13:48
If there is to be a 4th aircraft that may well operate additional PMI flights plus obviously some additional routes.

Good to see JER being increased to 5 x weekly in the peak season.

DC3 Dave
27th Sep 2017, 13:56
I see FR have dumped STN-GLA this winter. That's a bonus for Stobart.

SEN Observer
27th Sep 2017, 14:06
Or is the FR dumping of the STN - GLA route an indication that there's not much call for it? Perhaps our smaller aircraft will manage better.

Anyone know why we had a Flybe diversion this morning from Exeter? I would have thought that if it had been weather at LCY we'd have had more than just one.

AirportPlanner1
27th Sep 2017, 15:03
Good to see JER being increased to 5 x weekly in the peak season.

This would seem to all but confirm a 4th aircraft. In addition to the Thursday and Saturday nights referenced previously, the JER increase means departures on Sunday afternoons at 13:00, 13:30, 14:45 and 15:20. The latter three are short hops to AMS/CDG/JER but only two of them do anything when they get back.

Expressflight
27th Sep 2017, 15:39
I see FR have dumped STN-GLA this winter. That's a bonus for Stobart.

..... and SEN-GLA looks to be selling extremely well today.

southside bobby
27th Sep 2017, 16:08
Expressflight....quantify please.

SEN Observer
27th Sep 2017, 16:10
I've just come back from one of my wanders round the airport and can report that the extension to long stay 2 car park is now open and it is big! From the very end of it you are very close to the stop bar at Alpha 1 for runway 23. A good spot if runway 23 is in use but not so good when it's 05 as it is today. The easy from Paris didn't do the full length but managed to slow enough to exit via Bravo. Sorry if you find this uninteresting but I'm sure some people want to know.

Expressflight
27th Sep 2017, 16:12
southside bobby

All I can say is that I have my methods which I cannot elaborate on - sorry.

Planespeaking
27th Sep 2017, 16:21
Expressflight....quantify please.

All the information is out there SSB, surely you can find it...even though it's not such good news for STN. But it could be good for SEN.

southside bobby
27th Sep 2017, 16:53
Planespeaking....Please feel free to comment when your good self actually posts any news at all on these boards.You are very a very tiresome chap even when a polite question is posed.I have requested several times now you stop being personal.I would feel that if a SEN poster actually informs us of some good news from down there such as an uptick in bookings in lieu of RYR then perhaps I may expect to see a fuller story without having to search it all myself eh?. The original poster wishes not to divulge his sources & then you bite me by trying to be clever & sarcastic & say it`s out there & to look myself. Believe me I ain`t that interested to research it but to be informed,which these posts should be about yes?..As I asked just quantify...simples...Always personal on this thread & drift over which actually says a lot.

Expressflight
27th Sep 2017, 17:48
southside bobby

I hope you don't think I declined to state my source just because it was you who asked for it; I would give the same answer to whoever enquired. I guard my sources for many reasons and it's up to others to decide whether or not I know what I'm talking about. If I was obliged to give chapter and verse ever time then I regret my contributions here would be many fewer.

southside bobby
27th Sep 2017, 18:51
Expressflight & Generally....No...no problem as such...believe it or not I would almost certainly have left your first answer as a no reply from me..respect..(tho disappointed).My reply was effectively prompted by the next poster who is making a habit of picking up in an annoying & a personal way everything I type in this & other threads(I`m no snowflake but live too within forum guidance)..It is understood that I have views with SEN`s business model (& a certain style of expression which I vary) but it is always with the inanimate object & not any individual.... There are however several individuals on here with SEN connections who resort in the very first instance to barracking...(witness another poster who barracked me personally with no justification this AM on either the STN or RYR thread.This is doing SEN no favours at all,makes it appear infantile & only results in tit for tat.Just to answer/counter the "arguments" & statements is good...Thanks for your considered reply....It is noted "others" never do...

rowly6339
27th Sep 2017, 18:53
I do remember somebody on the Sen 5 thread mentioned this as a possibility, now who was it?

mik3bravo
27th Sep 2017, 23:46
Going back to the OP on this thread. I used SEN recently and have to say it was a good experience.

Had a 06:30 departure. Security was fast. Shops are good. Fruit gaming machines down on departures gate level outside the mens toilets are naff and a bit stupid if you ask me - no need for them.

My only complaint being exiting car park 3 long stay. Prepaid on Holiday Extras but slipped the ticket in at exit barrier... BOOM... £168 due please!

Pressed the help button gave the chap my vehice reg and parking ref number and he let me out. Same thing happened on the two cars in front of me. Getting out of the car park took me 12 minutes in sitting there between cars in front and myself pressing help and going through the motions.

I've noticed this is the norm on any Holiday Extras car park advanced bookings. It's happened to me at Gatwick, City, Stansted and now Southend. I think there must be some screw up on the integration of Holiday Extras booking system to the airport systems. When I book direct on airport websites I never have this problem.

DC3 Dave
28th Sep 2017, 00:44
I do remember somebody on the Sen 5 thread mentioned this as a possibility, now who was it?

It was...... sorry SEN 5 has been closed and archived.

My own amateur observations and some professional analysis from others back what you said. But when can we expect an official statement?

sarnold
28th Sep 2017, 15:56
Does anyone know how the CGN-SEN route is performing? Just looked to book on it and quite often it is showing at £4.97. This seems very cheap, even if trying to promote the route?

rowly6339
28th Sep 2017, 17:54
It was...... sorry SEN 5 has been closed and archived.

My own amateur observations and some professional analysis from others back what you said. But when can we expect an official statement?

As soon as I see something official on paper I will let you know but the noise I'm hearing is rather positive regarding this.

SEN Observer
29th Sep 2017, 12:44
BBC Look East has just given the SEN Glasgow flights a boost. They have just reported that Ryanair's problems could well be a boost for SEN as they are soon starting Glasgow flights.

mikkie4
29th Sep 2017, 13:16
watched that also, lets hope that something good could come out of this chaos for SEN, how difficult would it be for FLYBE to put on extra flights to/ffom Glasgow at short notice?

goldeneye
29th Sep 2017, 15:55
I think with FR suspending EDI & GLA there is scope for BE/Stobart to up the rotations on Glasgow in particular. Time from SEN to Liverpool St is comparable to that of STN. If they have the right fares could be a money spinner for them.

Barling Magna
2nd Oct 2017, 09:37
I think the very sad demise of Monarch, with all its stress and worries for its staff and passengers, is probably also unfortunate for SEN. Suddenly a lot of slots will be available from LGW and LTN which would surely be more attractive for any airlines seeking to open new routes to London? Time will tell.

DC3 Dave
2nd Oct 2017, 10:30
I think we can be certain that easyjet will have a plan in place following Monarch's demise. If a fourth aircraft was coming SEN's way, I fear it may now be diverted elsewhere.

Expressflight
2nd Oct 2017, 11:23
..... either that or it might provide a greater opportunity to add new SEN destinations. We shall see.

tws123
2nd Oct 2017, 11:30
On the basis that the schedules are planned way in advance, I find it unlikely that EZY would just scrap their expansion plans. In the mid-term it's hard to say. Wizz for example might rethink a move to SEN (if it was on the cards) because of the spare capacity at LTN now. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

22/04
2nd Oct 2017, 16:36
Whilst significant remember there were only 4 aircraft based at LTN and few destinations not served by others. I doubt EZY plans for SEN will change - a separate market

LTNman
2nd Oct 2017, 17:46
Gatwick was always the prize. Other London airports have partly benefited from a lack of slots south of the Thames so there might well be a knock on affect for other London airport if those slots are grabbed and aircraft are moved to fill those slots.

You can be sure Luton and Gatwick who had 13 Monarch based aircraft between them will be looking to fill their spare capacity making Southend’s quest for new airlines somewhat harder. This won’t be helped by the completion of Luton’s terminal expansion next year.

Expressflight
2nd Oct 2017, 17:56
I'm not sure if I've aired this view on here before but I certainly have elsewhere.

The LON airports will not run out of capacity anytime soon so making SEN the only game in town for entrants to the LON market is a very long way off, as LTNman rightly illustrates. Ensuring that SEN has, for example, suitable public transport links and provides an attractive customer proposition is a surer way of attracting other operators in my view. They are achieving the latter if not the former at present.

Expressflight
4th Oct 2017, 07:33
SEN has just posted on their f/bk page that "easyJet has announced it will base a fourth A320(sic) aircraft at the airport from 25th July 2018 .....".

Presumably there may be frequency increases on existing routes but also some new routes added in due course.

DC3 Dave
4th Oct 2017, 08:20
Good news! Hopefully, they'll reinstate a morning flight to Malaga, at least for part of the week. Having said that I think this Spain / Catalonia business is in danger of spiralling out of control and could have a huge impact next year on plans.

AirportPlanner1
4th Oct 2017, 09:44
Could be a 320 neo facilitating some longer routes?

asdf1234
4th Oct 2017, 10:49
SEN has just posted on their f/bk page that "easyJet has announced it will base a fourth A320(sic) aircraft at the airport from 25th July 2018 .....".

Presumably there may be frequency increases on existing routes but also some new routes added in due course.

easyJet say this will add 130,000 extra passengers per annum. So where will the airport find the other 1,200,000 passengers to meet its 2018 target of 2.5m pax?

Good news but not the new based airline the airport needs to stem the operational losses.

DC3 Dave
4th Oct 2017, 11:11
Easyjet to fly high with huge passenger boost at airport | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/15574865.Easyjet_to_fly_high_with_huge_passenger_boost_at_ai rport/)

01475
4th Oct 2017, 17:07
I love the PR that's coming out SEN atm; top marks to them!!! :D

(Also, I highly doubt easyJet would ever plan to get out of bed for loads that were only 80% of whatever the actual loads were :rolleyes: But I guess "easyJet was able to charge SEN pax more than they expected to be able to get off with and wants more of that" doesn't have the same ring :) )

Falcon666
4th Oct 2017, 18:17
I know to the public it doesn't really matter but
A fourth A320 a/ c isn't exactly accurate as SEN has A319s based or has that changed?
Think it is unlikely to be a NEO but hopefully you will get a couple of new routes at least.
I am thinking maybe Lisbon!

Captain_Caveman
4th Oct 2017, 18:18
Could be a 320 neo facilitating some longer routes?

Southend will not be getting a Neo for the foreseeable future. As the neo’s are delivered into Luton and Gatwick first off, this will facilitate other A320 ceo to move around the network.

SEN Observer
4th Oct 2017, 19:54
And why is Captain Caveman so sure it won't be a neo? Is he in the know or just surmising? Not so long ago there was a little army of "SEN won't get a 4th aircraft" merchants who have now been proved wrong. Why are the doubters so adamant that good things just won't happen? I suggest people should wait and see before rubbishing every suggestion/thought.

SWBKCB
4th Oct 2017, 20:25
If EZY were planning to but a NEO in, why not mention it today and use that to boost the PR? From a support point of view, it would make sense to concentrate the NEO's rather than disperse them around the network.

25 July seems a bit of an odd date, is it a full time fourth A/C?

wethersfield
4th Oct 2017, 20:52
EZY announced 8 th aircraft joining Liverpool base 27/7/18 so i guess Southend's 4 th aircraft joining 25/7 makes similar sense at the start of the main summer season

pabely
4th Oct 2017, 20:53
No plans for NEO at SEN, they will go to the bigger bases first so the line engineers can get skilled up.
I think the date is relevant when the 321NEOs start to arrive thus freeing up 320CEOs.

SARF
4th Oct 2017, 21:54
Anyone know what's happening to the ex RBS building near the airport ?

Buster the Bear
4th Oct 2017, 22:34
Neo will be at large bases to facilitate the training pilots, engineering and cabin crew trainers gaining authorisation to fly/maintain/serve in the new machine. This will facilitate in-house cascading of training downward.

tws123
5th Oct 2017, 02:29
Anyone know what's happening to the ex RBS building near the airport ?

It's not an 'ex' office as RBS are still there. I don't think there are plans to close it anytime soon, and its removal would probably have very limited implications for SEN's runway (05).

compton3bravo
5th Oct 2017, 04:44
I would guess the extra aircraft at both Liverpool and Southend will be based for a period of a few weeks (school holidays) to add extra capacity for that period. Whether they continue for the rest of the summer season is open for debate.

Expressflight
5th Oct 2017, 08:08
I doubt that the aircraft will be an A320neo unless that type offers a considerable commercial advantage by virtue of enhanced field performance. I still haven't found any written evidence of that and Airbus no longer seem to be claiming better field performance for the variant.

Press Releases are always difficult to fathom as the context of statements is never clear. If they really said that the addition of an A320 will produce an "increase of 130,000 passengers to and from the airport ..." then that is four months of SEN utilisation of an A320, not just the school holiday period.

Continued speculation isn't really worth while beyond that but no doubt things will become clearer when any new routes are announced. I have heard Madrid mentioned by the way.

Captain_Caveman
5th Oct 2017, 09:03
And why is Captain Caveman so sure it won't be a neo? Is he in the know or just surmising? Not so long ago there was a little army of "SEN won't get a 4th aircraft" merchants who have now been proved wrong. Why are the doubters so adamant that good things just won't happen? I suggest people should wait and see before rubbishing every suggestion/thought.

SEN Observer... because there are some people on pprune who actually know what they are talking about because it is part of their job to know.

DC3 Dave
5th Oct 2017, 09:47
neo or ceo, temporary or permanent. Surely this news cannot be regarded as anything other than positive for SEN. Over the last 12 months or so I've read here (I paraphrase) "Southend was a vanity project for EZY executive" Southend is the worst performing of the UK bases" EZY can't wait to get out" and frequently "Hell will freeze over before a fourth based aircraft comes along".

Clearly, easyjet don't share those views. There's no sentiment in their decision. It's not something they had to do.

22/04
5th Oct 2017, 10:31
CD3 Dave -it's good to see your positivity. Considering what has been achieved at Southend (and I am one of those Lutoners really) I am amazed how downbeat many are here. When I visited in a Cessna not that many years ago it as pretty moribund with 146s and a 707 lying around and very little commercial traffic. It is now a thriving local airport (sorry I don't really buy the London bit) with turboprop regional jet and main line low cost operators. It may not be making money yet - but it's there but an amazing transformation really compared with say Teeside, Humberside and Norwich which have changed little, and Cardiff and Doncaster/Sheffield which certainly don't make money and pay large inducements to retain fewer operators by and large.

AirportPlanner1
5th Oct 2017, 11:34
Going back to the LGW slot issue, it only changes things for SEN and others if it's EZY that end up with the vacant Monarch slots and they suddenly need to find nine aircraft to throw over there. If BA/IAG or Norwegian get them, it changes nothing because they barely operate north of the river anyway. Either way, unless no one takes them (unlikely) it will still be the case that peak LGW is full and new entrants will be forced to look elsewhere.

Double Hydco
5th Oct 2017, 15:05
Neo will be at large bases to facilitate the training pilots, engineering and cabin crew trainers gaining authorisation to fly/maintain/serve in the new machine. This will facilitate in-house cascading of training downward.

Dunno about the engineers, but all current EZY pilots are qualified to operate the A320neo, and assume the cabin crew can do the same.......

01475
5th Oct 2017, 15:43
neo or ceo, temporary or permanent. Surely this news cannot be regarded as anything other than positive for SEN. Over the last 12 months or so I've read here (I paraphrase) "Southend was a vanity project for EZY executive" Southend is the worst performing of the UK bases" EZY can't wait to get out" and frequently "Hell will freeze over before a fourth based aircraft comes along".

Clearly, easyjet don't share those views. There's no sentiment in their decision. It's not something they had to do.

Quite. And easyJet aren't the fastest expanding airline in the world - this isn't an honour that they've bestowed on many airports!

22/04
5th Oct 2017, 18:59
I know CC require separate training on the 321 neo but not sure about the 320s

planedrive
5th Oct 2017, 19:26
Engineers do need an extra piece of paper but it's not going to stop one being based at Southend. We've flown it from LTN to many places where the engineers are able to fix it but has to be signed off from Maintenance control due to them not having enough experience on type. Obviously as more and more come online they'll be able to sign things off themselves.

8674planes
5th Oct 2017, 19:41
The engineers will have to attend a NEO differences course (theory and practical) in order to gain approval for the neo.

SARF
5th Oct 2017, 21:58
It's not an 'ex' office as RBS are still there. I don't think there are plans to close it anytime soon, and its removal would probably have very limited implications for SEN's runway (05).

I'm not thinking runway. The runway will never change from now.
There are lots of works going on , on the north west side.
I was just wondering if the rbs offices would be used by an operator on,the south side

DC3 Dave
7th Oct 2017, 07:52
Read the following article in yesterday's Evening Standard. Wonder if the airport will benefit from the investment in any way?

LOGISTICS giant Stobart, which owns London Southend Airport, today revealed it will invest in a tech start-up which helps travellers get luggage from their door to the airport without having to lift a finger. The firm will provide £2 million to London-founded AirPortr. The company has an app that allows holidaymakers to have a third party deliver their bags and check them in. It is partnered with Gatwick and Heathrow and offered to British Airways customers and is looking to expand with the funding.

Bee Rexit
9th Oct 2017, 08:33
This is a bit of a surprise if you ask me. Especially as it was only extended a couple of years ago and that was only a few years after the original building was finished.

Todays Echo - FIRST_LOOK__Multi_million_pound_extensions_to_Southend_Airpo rt/

mikkie4
9th Oct 2017, 09:00
SEN have announce that a MULTI MILLION POUND extension will start in early 2018 (subgect to planning)..an extension to southern end of terminal to house new baggage/sorting & screening systems to meet new rules starting 1st sept 2018.....also extension to northern end improving baggage reclaim:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

southside bobby
9th Oct 2017, 10:21
Good News.....For the record the multi million extension comes in @ £5M.

mikkie4
9th Oct 2017, 11:18
looks like stobarts are staying, dispite what certain people on this web page are saying

southside bobby
9th Oct 2017, 11:28
Context & rationale ?...

tws123
9th Oct 2017, 12:26
Now all they need are some passengers to use it...

Expressflight
9th Oct 2017, 13:01
Just for the record Stobart's expediture on SEN improvements this year seems to comprise around £3m on taxiway and apron works, some £1m on FBO improvements currently in progress, a large additional long-stay car park which opened last week and now £5m for the terminal extension. So roughly £10m being spent in total. Not a huge sum but still substantial.

tws123

On that score I'm still hoping ('hopeful' might be too strong a word to use though) that an important announcement may be forthcoming within the next month.

EssexMan61
9th Oct 2017, 13:39
Nice little item about Milan in yesterdays Mail on Sunday - with a plug for the Stobart Air services from SEN. I believe the Mail on Sunday is the biggest Sunday seller in the UK (sorry to all the left-wingers who crop up regularly here!) - so hopefully will have reached a big audience.

Bee Rexit
9th Oct 2017, 13:52
Just for the record Stobart's expediture on SEN improvements this year seems to comprise around £3m on taxiway and apron works, some £1m on FBO improvements currently in progress, a large additional long-stay car park which opened last week and now £5m for the terminal extension. So roughly 10m being spent in total. Not a huge sum but still substantial.

tws123

On that score I'm still hoping ('hopeful' might be too strong a word to use though) that an important announcement may be forthcoming within the next month.
You have to think something is in the pipeline or these new improvements plus proposed ones are putting the cart before the horse somewhat.

Planespeaking
9th Oct 2017, 14:01
Stobart are pretty clued up, the recent investment is future proofing, and good to see. Some of the recent convulsions with Monarch, RyanAir, and the decline of CityJet may throw the plans, allowing more slots elsewhere,
but SEN is steadily building a public awareness of speed quality and efficiency. See the Which surveys.

Remember it took years before LCY scratched the surface.

All this money is not being invested without committment.

tws123
9th Oct 2017, 15:09
A new airline would be great, but an airline with a substantial operation and growth potential would be even better.

southside bobby
9th Oct 2017, 16:18
EssexMan61....What with the comment concerning & to quote "sorry to all the left-wingers who crop up regularly here !!"..
I have pointed out before it is all the side swiping on this airport thread in particular that does nothing to help get a general SEN message across.

SARF
9th Oct 2017, 22:11
I think he was being facetious south side

southside bobby
10th Oct 2017, 08:40
Righto SARF..

Barling Magna
10th Oct 2017, 09:21
The improvements to the baggage reclaim area are certainly a good idea. It's pretty congested on the (admittedly fairly rare!) occasions when two or three flights arrive together. Hopefully such arrivals will soon be a more common occurrence.

tophat27dt
10th Oct 2017, 13:59
News of a new operator and the routes should be announced before Christmas, but of course only if signed and finalised by both parties.
Exciting news if it goes through, but for now I am not at liberty to state the airline. I can see that from next June, SEN could have a much busier departures/arrivals board than what they have now.

tws123
10th Oct 2017, 14:07
A new private jet centre is coming to London next month as Stobart Jet Centre opens at London Southend Airport | City A.M. (http://www.cityam.com/273567/new-private-jet-centre-open-24-7-coming-london-next-month)

mikkie4
10th Oct 2017, 15:18
2 bits of good news ..lets hope that it all comes true

mikkie4
10th Oct 2017, 15:27
What uk based(assuming its uk) airlines use A319/20s that could use SENs shortish runway?

Planespeaking
10th Oct 2017, 15:36
BA.! Anything is possible these days.

Expressflight
10th Oct 2017, 15:54
Would not the much speculated Wizzair be the most likely candidate?

tws123
10th Oct 2017, 16:39
It would have to be a considerable operation from Wizz into SEN to make the arrivals board busier. I would have a punt at BA as they too were specifically mentioned by Glyn Jones in a press article a few months back.

AirportPlanner1
10th Oct 2017, 16:44
Who said anything about UK, or basing at SEN? I agree Wizz is most likely going on previous rumours, but it could also be Vueling or Volotea. The latter of course already operate and have some bases that don't have that much competition to London.

Expressflight
10th Oct 2017, 17:49
Looking at the Flybe Online Timetable for June 2018 I see that three based EMB195 aircraft will be needed to operate the SEN schedule in addition to two ATRs.

brian_dromey
10th Oct 2017, 20:02
Stobart Air have a greed a deal for 3 E195s from flyBe, so this seems plausible.

johnnychips
10th Oct 2017, 21:19
Freudian slip?

tophat27dt
11th Oct 2017, 07:28
Who said anything about UK, or basing at SEN? I agree Wizz is most likely going on previous rumours, but it could also be Vueling or Volotea. The latter of course already operate and have some bases that don't have that much competition to London.

To stop lots of unnecessary guesses, I can tell you that the airline concerned is British, 4 aircraft based, up to 20 destinations. But I think soon there will be an official announcement.

daz211
11th Oct 2017, 07:51
Well we can rule out

TUI
Thomas Cook
Jet2

I just can’t see anyone jumping into Southend with 4 Aircraft not saying I don’t want it to happen good luck if it does I jest can’t see it
Unless I’m thinking to big what size aircraft are we talking ?

Expressflight
11th Oct 2017, 08:27
I don't think it's particularly helpful if those in the know say too much until the deal is actually signed. At that stage it probably cannot do much harm but cats prematurely let out of bags tend to behave unpredictably.

Tagron
11th Oct 2017, 08:37
I entirely agree with Expressflight. And I really do not believe there is any purpose in further public speculation. Enough to know there is "something" substantial in the pipeline. A realistic approach would be that until it is signed and announced it is not going to happen.

daz211
11th Oct 2017, 08:38
I don’t think that an airline that plans to base 4 aircraft who is about to announce a massive flight program imminently would suddenly change their mind and pull out of a deal just because it’s been discussed on an airline forum
If an announcement is imminent I would suggest we are already passed the signing stage

Expressflight
11th Oct 2017, 08:55
I did say that once the deal is signed "At that stage it probably cannot do much harm ...". I don't think it's yet reached that point.

DC3 Dave
11th Oct 2017, 09:15
Anybody who holds confidential information may feel uncomfortable, but the rest of us are free to speculate all we like - whether there's any purpose in it is another matter. For me, I think it's fascinating that Mr "Wait and See" can hardly seem to contain himself.

There's nothing that I can say will change anyone's plans a jot, so with respect to those feeling jittery, I am aware of a UK airline that knows exactly how many seats Stobart have sold on their routes and how much revenue those sales have generated. Indeed, this airline is aware of every seat and ancillary purchase at the time it's made.

01475
11th Oct 2017, 09:22
Fascinating! Can't guess who it could be. I can think of good reasons why it wouldn't be any of the people I can think of!

BA... not in line with their way of operating; slots now available at places that are.

Jet2... already up the road.

BMI, Eastern, Loganair... not their kind of airport, not their size of base, not their number of destinations, no potential for their types of destinations (this one less applicable to BMI, but still enough so).

CityJet; would be a hilariously ironic option, but not British and giving up on that sort of thing.

FlyBe... not likely; not expanding.

Other holiday companies... too big a base and they're unlikely to want to fly suitable aircraft for it.

So Jet2 after all? Or someone new? Or the tremendous coup of someone that's at LCY?

SEN Observer
11th Oct 2017, 09:54
Did anyone apart from me notice FR24's spectacular offering yesterday morning? An American Airlines A330 from Philadelphia landing at SEN at 07:20. Now, that would be worth seeing!!

DC3 Dave
11th Oct 2017, 10:18
I have had another thought (sorry). This 4 based aircraft rumour doesn't gel with the lower growth numbers Stobart have been putting out there for 2018. (they're now talking 1.5 million) Bearing in mind that Stobart would prefer to operate aircraft for others (that's my view), is this all about a change of roles between them and Flybe. That is, the existing Stobart routes will handed over to Flybe, with Stobart an ACMI operator?

southside bobby
11th Oct 2017, 10:31
In my view DC3 Dave has been & remains one of the "free thinkers" on this thread..

Plane.Silly
11th Oct 2017, 11:29
So Jet2 after all? Or someone new?

Would certainly be a shock, given the growth they've put into STN. That being said STN-SEN is a similar distance to BHX-EMA and MAN-LBA, which seems to work.

They are getting 14 new B738NG's this winter, so could they be hanging on to some old 733's a bit longer?

tws123
11th Oct 2017, 12:31
Someone I know who works at the airport said to me about a month or so back that he had heard "down the grapevine" that Jet2 were coming and that recruitment days were being scheduled. I did ask if he was getting confused with the recent STN expansion to which he said "No this is at SEN". Guess we'll find out soon enough.

LAX_LHR
11th Oct 2017, 12:37
Where would Jet2 get all these aircraft from?

They are basing 2 more at BHX, 2 more at MAN, 1 at LBA, at least 2 more at STN and that doesn't take into account any aircraft retirements (G-CELI looks to be gone this month for a starter).

Then there are rumours of a BRS base too which would be either 2 or 4 aircraft, now SEN at 4. That's 16 aircraft to find for next summer off the bat, without even considering of any other bases such as BFS/EDI/NCL etc get an extra aircraft too,....

DC3 Dave
11th Oct 2017, 13:35
I thought Jet2 were rapidly replacing their 737-300's with 737-800's. If that's the case any operations from SEN would be temporary and that makes little sense.

canberra97
11th Oct 2017, 13:59
With Jet2 not even into a full years operation at STN and the fact that it's the airlines only southern base why would they consider SEN seeing its only about 38 miles away and with limitations regarding it's runway not being suitable for Boeing 738's.

Someone is getting carried away with themselves regarding this 'so called new' airline coming to SEN, but I think DC3 Dave and his Flybe assumption may well turn out to be the case.

daz211
11th Oct 2017, 14:25
I can tell you its NOT Jet2 I know for a fact that summer 2018 they are adding more aircraft at STN they wanted to add more but they don’t have them available by summer 2019 they will have at least double the based aircraft at STN than for summer 2017 so forget jet2

tophat27dt
11th Oct 2017, 15:49
I agree it's definitely not Jet2. As DC3 Dave said it is so tempting to share what one has heard instead of waiting for confirmation of a deal done. Having said that, this is a forum to share rumours as well as facts, but I don't want to get my informers into trouble. Wait and see! LOL

01475
11th Oct 2017, 16:30
As long as it's not Powdair :-D

flight_mode
11th Oct 2017, 16:42
LOL.... Will they get their A380 into SEN?

southside bobby
11th Oct 2017, 16:48
tophat27dt....I`m now hoping even more than for SEN, for your own good reputation on this thread that this all comes to fruition.To push it thus you must be extremely sure of yourself (but I think I would leave it myself now to an "announcement").You have moderated previously this thread to a degree so here`s wishing then for your credibility too.

tws123
12th Oct 2017, 03:22
Out of interest, how would it work having potentially 13 based aircraft (4 EasyJet, 5 Flybe/Stobart, 4 new airline) next year and only 10 terminal stands? Would aircraft be moved to stands or pax bussed to remote stands?

mikkie4
12th Oct 2017, 04:24
all the work that was done during the summer to the apron and taxi ways might have something to do with it

LTNman
12th Oct 2017, 04:44
Hmm, just say there were 13 based aircraft, does the airport have enough check-in desks for those with luggage?

Also factor in extra road traffic particularly for the first wave when there is no public transport. I have first hand experience when the tipping point is reached and everything grinds to a halt. All seems fine then suddenly nothing moves.

Does SEN have the luxury of a long approach road to keep any queues away from local road? How big is the drop off zone? Would Southend remain the UK’s favourite airport? If it could then it would be doing very well.

Barling Magna
12th Oct 2017, 06:49
Does SEN have the luxury of a long approach road to keep any queues away from local road? No

How big is the drop off zone? Probably large enough

Would Southend remain the UK’s favourite airport? Unlikely but who knows?

LTNman
12th Oct 2017, 07:12
Just street viewed the airport, the approach road doesn't seem that short so would act as a buffer.

The drop off zone is actually the short term car park with a single entry and exit barrier. It won't be long before that has to be modified if the predictions here are accurate.

Expressflight
12th Oct 2017, 07:23
The drop off zone is the 150-space short stay car park.

The north apron was enlarged this year to accommodate A320 sized aircraft, together with new apron lighting, so pax could be bussed to those stands if required.

Probably maintaining their title of UK's favourite airport might be difficult but an acceptable trade-off for the increase in passenger numbers/revenue generated.

davidjohnson6
12th Oct 2017, 07:34
The label of UK's favourite essentially means too much capital has been invested and shareholders are not seeing a decent return on investment

LTNman
12th Oct 2017, 08:48
Actually Southend is now the UK's second favourite airport as I believe Docaster took the title. Best not to mention bottom place please.:O

tophat27dt
12th Oct 2017, 08:58
The drop off zone is the 150-space short stay car park.

The north apron was enlarged this year to accommodate A320 sized aircraft, together with new apron lighting, so pax could be bussed to those stands if required.

Probably maintaining their title of UK's favourite airport might be difficult but an acceptable trade-off for the increase in passenger numbers/revenue generated.

I do find that a lot more airports lack good drop off points. Even here in Luxembourg, one must enter a short-term car to do this. First 15 minutes free, then payment. Southend could offer further bait by offering 30 minutes free. Regarding the peak hour rushes, surely airport management and any new routes could be encouraged to depart between 0730 and 0800 to avoid the first rush of the day between 0630 and 0715.

SARF
12th Oct 2017, 17:02
Drop offs are easy with the free ten mins in short stay.
Pick ups are always the problem as people usually arrive about an hour too soon ..
Ok if your getting to an airport from an hours plus drive away you don't want to be late.
But Southend has plenty of places to lurk if your early, that are less than five mins away and won't attract the disapproving eye of some business park 'parking' warden ..
flight radar, and your eyes can do the rest

asdf1234
12th Oct 2017, 23:17
And I nearly got the thread closed for mentioning trains! Seems parking is safe, trains are not.

The tumble in the STOB share price is worthy of discussion here. Anyone know why Tinkler tried to offload a third of his shareholding a couple of hours prior to the closed period? I'm guessing the results soon to be announced are disastrous.

Equally disastrous was Tinkler's inept "stealth" exit. He didn't sell all that he hoped to sell and his paper wealth took a gigantic hit of circa £8m-£10m. I'm betting that's the last time he tries a stealthy sale.

Tagron
13th Oct 2017, 08:14
Why not just wait and see ?

southside bobby
13th Oct 2017, 08:30
Well no actually...adsf1234 is credible & the post is worthy & valid for "discussion" as it concerns issues around the re-development/ownership & management of SEN...If no one cares to "discuss" (a very common feature on this thread) or has any more knowledge at least the info is out there & in that respect a valid post IMHO.

Tagron
13th Oct 2017, 09:02
The Stobart October statement is due next Thursday. I would have thought sensible posters would choose to wait just six days before going into print.

I have no doubt a discussion may or will take place in the light of the contents. I suggest that will be the appropriate time to hold such a debate. At least then it can be based on some actual information rather than just the whims and prejudices of individual posters.

DC3 Dave
13th Oct 2017, 09:28
No need to worry about it. There's plenty of 'jam tomorrow'.
http://www.cityam.com/273818/theres-solution-airport-capacity-problem-uk-and-isnt

southside bobby
13th Oct 2017, 09:34
Tagron...
Sensible the theory...but context to be added/taken into account too particularly here, which in my opinion of a fair few SEN posters includes @ the least v defensive statements to close down views differing from theirs.
On your basis much of todays & yesterdays general press & news output is not valid & should not be available..
All posters views are valid & put out there for "discussion" even if you contended they are whims & prejudices. Just because you disagree or choose not to confront those issues does not necessarily make them so.
The original poster has put forward credible info & asked you to discuss..I would suggest again you are possibly defensive & borderline censorial IMHO.

compton3bravo
13th Oct 2017, 10:05
Glyn Jones says he needs Government help, more like the UK taxpayer.

Planespeaking
13th Oct 2017, 13:07
Yes, but if I have read the same article as compton then Jones is not pleading for help for SEN specifically, but for a change of thinking within government to encourage a more benevolent environment for smaller and regional airports. This in turn would promote runway and airspace capacity that is currently under utilised.

Surely when one sees the congestion and third world conditions available to pax at LHR, LGW and LTN and even STN with little sign of an improvement, perhaps it is time for a radical re-think. But don't hold your breath.

DC3 Dave
13th Oct 2017, 13:35
And dropping the tax for an airport like Southend may help to attract new operators, because you can bet your bottom dollar that the £13 will be going into their coffers, not remaining in the punters' pockets.

LTNman
13th Oct 2017, 14:11
For example, at London Southend Airport, we help over one million passengers fly away on their holidays each year – but we could and plan to accommodate 10 times that number.

Someone is having a laugh

Surely when one sees the congestion and third world conditions available to pax at LHR, LGW and LTN and even STN with little sign of an improvement, perhaps it is time for a radical re-think.

If Southend got to 10 million passengers then it would join the ranks of the other London's Airports. The secret is to say enough is enough and that will never happen.

Southend is the UK's second favourite airport not by good design but because of low passenger numbers. This makes for a depressing time for Stobart who wants to run a third world airport.

Most folk here who praise Southend's popularity also want the airport to become third world.

Sometimes less = more. Not many people here are prepared to accept that as a good option.

Planespeaking
13th Oct 2017, 14:21
LTNman you are absolutely right, that is why mass tourism destroys the very thing people want to see.

Skipness One Echo
13th Oct 2017, 14:43
Glyn Jones is chief executive of Stobart Aviation, the owner of London Southend
It's all about making him money, passenger experience matters not one jot.
Ten million at Southend be crazy IMHO.
but for a change of thinking within government to encourage a more benevolent environment for smaller and regional airports. This in turn would promote runway and airspace capacity that is currently under utilised.
Subsidy, you mean a taxpayers subsidy. That's what this always means. Now LHR and LGW are subsidised to some extent in terms of transport infrastructure but they are intrinsic parts of UK plc.

DC3 Dave
13th Oct 2017, 15:17
LTNman I don't believe there is a single regular contributor to this thread who believes 10 million is either possible or desirable. All most of us want is a sustainable future for the airport.

Oh! I nearly forgot, Glyn Jones doesn't believe 10 million is possible either. Only when Warwick Brady came along did that figure become the 'target'. Glyn will sell anything he's required to with such gusto. What he thinks privately only he knows. But he's (pre Brady) been consistent and rational in his view that Southend could handle a maximum of 5 million pax p.a. long term.

Expressflight
13th Oct 2017, 15:54
I'm as sure as it's possible to be that SEN will never achieve 10 million. The absolute maximum in my opinion would be 5 million given its footprint and access and I doubt anything in excess of that figure could be achieved commercially under predictable circumstances.

I for one do not want to see it develop beyond around 3 million, certainly in the medium term. I very much accept that as a "good option" both as a supporter of the airport and as a traveller using it. As LTNman says sometimes less does indeed equal more.

I don't understand why this 10 million figure keeps getting mentioned by SEN management. Perhaps its simply to keep investors interested as I cannot see any logical reason for doing so.

southside bobby
13th Oct 2017, 16:18
But LTNman & others should not be castigated when they quote the figures & part statements back...
From memory the Airport Director was first to mention those figures some time ago & certainly in some fluffy article again today the Airport Director with the full backing obviously of the landlords is making sure that figure of 10m is now endlessly trotted out..
If all on here are agreed it is neither possible or desirable than the question should be asked what are they bolstering up?.
Their own divi`s & pensions are an immediate thought but it certainly could be called in normal parlance & description "flattering to deceive"..
Please note I stated normal parlance & not in business terms before I am accused again of stating deceptive practices are at work..
The thread unfortunately should expect comment from observers of the general scene & I haven`t even mentioned my observation of the article today which appears to portray the CEO as wanting a subsidy..my life...in the form of less or no taxes in the operations of an underperforming airport...Priceless.
Now how are hard working successful airports/enterprises & the hard working people employed there supposed to view that?.

tophat27dt
13th Oct 2017, 16:24
I also believe that with the limited space on everything at SEN, 3 million would be a figure in order to continue winning praise from its passengers and keeping them as regular clientel. 5 million might work if there was a big increase in long-term parking facilities on-site, but the flight schedules would have to be spread out through out the hours of operation. At this time, and probably for 2018, there are big gaps between movements. But we all know that businesses can get greedy, too big, with poor customer service and end up nothing more than shepherds trying to herd the angry crowds in the fastest possible time to increase the profits.

Expressflight
13th Oct 2017, 16:25
sb

If you can point me to where LTNman has been "castigated" in recent exchanges I should be most interested. As far as I can read everyone has agreed with him, as have I.

southside bobby
13th Oct 2017, 16:44
Expressflight...Fair point but redemption if that is all you query.
tophat27dt...What wonderful descriptive powers you command "trying to herd the angry crowds"..Now you are a seasoned traveller would you care to place your good self within that wonderful picture too?.If not than I would suggest you delete the remark or apologise to that endearing travelling public..
BTW they/we are able to travel more because LCC`s based on high intensity ops make it more readily available to the "herds" to quote you with your educated parlance.

DC3 Dave
13th Oct 2017, 17:39
SS I thought your post #180 was hard hitting but assiduously fair. But fair you are most certainly not with your criticism of tophat27dt As someone who has on many occasions in the last few years benefited from the travel opportunities made possible by LCC's I require no apology from anyone who believes that affordable fares and a civilised airport experience are equally desirable.

southside bobby
13th Oct 2017, 18:26
DC3 Dave...My post was based on the premise that tophat27dt is a seasoned traveller,erudite & educated...his observations may or may not be correct but that evidently is his view,so no problem.
Where he lets himself down is the wording "trying to herd the angry crowds" it is descriptive nonsense & generally derogatory @ least in terms of the way many of us travel nowadays....do you see yourself included in that description?.When did you last witness an angry crowd?..
If you have as you say taken advantage of an LCC perhaps as a spin from it`s origin @ LTN then excellent,it actually works,rejoice..
The original poster should at the very least apologise to himself for the hyperbole & with the other part of the post it also portrays more muddle at least with a business view (analysis).
I`m now half waiting for the reply from somewhere asking if I have never encountered euphemism`s regarding the wording but we got the context & where it was aimed..

southside bobby
13th Oct 2017, 18:42
Succinctly & in summation to end,it does appear some here are turning SEN`s comparatively underused terminal space into an art form & semi religion.
Just the way it appears thru some of the spin evident at the present time.

LTNman
13th Oct 2017, 19:51
If someone told me in 1999 when Luton's new terminal opened that they could squeeze 15.6 million passengers through it I would have said it was not physically possible. Well they have as it is called sweating the asset.

Remove seating, ignore queue lengths, add a multistory or two, and put stands that are a long bus ride away and you will be surprised at what can be achieved.

I have no idea what Southend's weakest link is that will ultimately set its true capacity but I doubt it will be the terminal. Maybe it will be the backtrack?

Welcome to Hell and Luton Airport's departure lounge. Remember sweating the asset and what a 10 million passenger Southend could look like.
https://i.imgur.com/bKDUdDz.jpg

SARF
13th Oct 2017, 21:43
Haha. That is a great pic.. looks like a wetherspoons on one pound a pint of Guinness night

SARF
13th Oct 2017, 21:44
If Southend gets that busy, which I doubt .. then er just don't go there.

mik3bravo
13th Oct 2017, 22:07
I have no idea what Southend's weakest link is that will ultimately set its true capacity but I doubt it will be the terminal. Maybe it will be the backtrack?

The airfield is a strip squeezed into a residential area. Restricted a/c movement noise control is a massive constraint. I like the place but it just isn't gonna work as a bigger airfield.

Barling Magna
17th Oct 2017, 08:19
Here's an interesting development in the aerospace industry world which could have an impact on SEN:

Bombardier to partner Airbus on C-Series jets - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41646795)

This surely makes the C-series a more viable option for airlines, and it can operate from SEN's limited strip without any issues - also quieter than other types.

DC3 Dave
17th Oct 2017, 10:20
I see VLM are up and running again with Antwerp - LCY from the end of the month. Does anyone have any update on VLM Slovenia? In particular the MBX - SEN service that was apparently to commence ASAP after the appropriate AOC was obtained.

pabely
17th Oct 2017, 10:34
Remember EZY looked at the C-series but walked away, I wonder why. With them committed to the A321 & 320 perhaps the C-series might become more attractive under Airbus as a 319 replacement for smaller hubs to build new routes?

shamrock7seal
17th Oct 2017, 11:09
In my opinion, C-series will be a success from LCY. The SEN catchment I believe will be seriously limited by the impact of development at both LCY (high frequency business) and STN (low frequency LCC)

I do believe that SEN has a c1m market but it will not sustain anything above those levels for long.

The vision of the airport is in conflict with itself. The very reason why a select 'few' choose to fly from SEN from the London area is because it's quiet - therefore the very nature of SEN as an attractive airport must be for it to remain quiet!

flight_mode
17th Oct 2017, 16:04
Swiss are on the record as saying their CS is costing 25% less to operate than the RJ100’s they replaced. Fleetwide, that’s a lot of money and will filter down to bottom line profits on the routes they operate it on. Passengers love it too. They spent years shoe-horning their laptops into the glove box sized overhead bins and then noisily bumbling around the sky at 29,000 ft then landing to discover their colleagues who departing after them on BA waiting in arrivals. I’m sure more personal space, a bigger toilet with a proper flush rather than the old “pot and flap” help too!

The aircraft is a great fit for SEN in my view. Maybe Stobart should buy some?

Expressflight
17th Oct 2017, 17:38
Flybe's Summer flights up to 9th September 2018 will go on sale in two days time. It will be interesting to see what Stobart Air will be offering for that period assuming they are also released on that date.

fatmed
17th Oct 2017, 20:56
Will be interesting to see the Flybe summer 2018 timetable. Does anyone have any idea when easy will tell us the plans for this 4th A320 aircraft from July next year ?

Expressflight
18th Oct 2017, 07:18
A new route for Summer 2018 will be ANR operated 4 x weekly by Stobart Air. There will be 15 Stobart Air/Flybe routes in total from SEN next Summer according to a SEN post on their f/bk page. "Up to 230 flights a week - a huge 80% increase from this year" it says. Details will presumably appear tomorrow when the Flybe timetable is released.

compton3bravo
18th Oct 2017, 08:09
If that is true Expressflight and I do not doubt your information, I just find it silly with VLM operating the route of London City just down the road. I would suggest it is difficult enough to make a profit on the route with one operator but two is just stupid. Surely there are better options than that.

GCILover
18th Oct 2017, 08:22
A new route for Summer 2018 will be ANR operated 4 x weekly by Stobart Air. There will be 15 Stobart Air/Flybe routes in total from SEN next Summer according to a SEN post on their f/bk page. "Up to 230 flights a week - a huge 80% increase from this year" it says. Details will presumably appear tomorrow when the Flybe timetable is released.



There are 14 routes already on sale for next summer. Unless they are doing significant increase in the amount of flights to these destinations, it will be interesting to see what changes there will be

asdf1234
18th Oct 2017, 08:34
A new route for Summer 2018 will be ANR operated 4 x weekly by Stobart Air. There will be 15 Stobart Air/Flybe routes in total from SEN next Summer according to a SEN post on their f/bk page. "Up to 230 flights a week - a huge 80% increase from this year" it says. Details will presumably appear tomorrow when the Flybe timetable is released.

Is it possible to determine which of those destinations will be Stobart flights operated under the Flybe franchise agreement and which are pure Flybe flights?

mikkie4
18th Oct 2017, 08:42
Wonder if they will get DAME SHIRLEY BASSEY to sing a song about DIAMONDS BEING FOR EVER for the very first flight?

mikkie4
18th Oct 2017, 08:54
Is this the news everyone was talking about last week or is there still more in the pipeline?

BA318
18th Oct 2017, 08:57
I think this a battle Stobart could win. VLM aren't even selling flights on their website yet for flights beginning at the end of the month. Plus perhaps people will no longer trust VLM given they went bust last time.

southside bobby
18th Oct 2017, 09:16
Altho not related to the SEN news....All over the business & travel press this AM that shares in BEE dropped up to a fifth this morning on a profits warning blaming higher mx costs on the Dash...

tws123
18th Oct 2017, 09:42
Also the post about the new Antwerp has since been removed from their Facebook page. Bit strange that...

Tagron
18th Oct 2017, 09:46
Is it possible to determine which of those destinations will be Stobart flights operated under the Flybe franchise agreement and which are pure Flybe flights? The Flybe timetable will clarify. At present the E195 flights are shown as operated by "Flybe on behalf of Stobart Air". With the start of the winter schedule this changes to "Stobart Air". I am guessing this might be connected with Stobart putting the E195s on their own AOC.

I don't see anything particularly significant in this new announcement. The increase in the SEN fleet by one ATR72 and one E195 is already known. 230 flights presumably means 115 rotations per week, which is about right for 2xATR and 3xE195 in peak season. 15 destinations would suggest that three of last summers seasonal routes will not return, and the additional aircraft may thicken up the schedules on the remaining routes.

SEN Observer
18th Oct 2017, 10:42
Antwerp may have disappeared from the Facebook page but it's still showing on Twitter. Anyway, why are they doing Antwerp? Haven't they already been there, done that and withdrawn? Wasn't that where they based an ATR overnight for an early flight in? Or am I confusing it with somewhere else?

Planespeaking
18th Oct 2017, 11:23
Antwerp may have disappeared from the Facebook page but it's still showing on Twitter. Anyway, why are they doing Antwerp? Haven't they already been there, done that and withdrawn? Wasn't that where they based an ATR overnight for an early flight in? Or am I confusing it with somewhere else?

It's also just been announced in an article on the Southend Echo website....not that an Echo story is a guarantee
of anything, let alone facts.

tws123
18th Oct 2017, 11:39
It's probably a better time to launch a SEN-ANR route than before considering that CityJet have pulled out and VLM are going through a restart process. Perhaps passengers will see BE/STOB as a more reliable/certain and cheaper airline to fly with?

DC3 Dave
18th Oct 2017, 12:20
It's also just been announced in an article on the Southend Echo website....not that an Echo story is a guarantee
of anything, let alone facts.

We can trust the Echo on this occasion. This is clearly a press release from Stobart. If there were other destinations planned I think there would have been a hint.

Even though Reus, Venice and Perpignan have gone, personally I think that overall the introduction of the new routes this year can now be considered a success. What do others think?

tws123
18th Oct 2017, 14:49
Higher frequencies on the remaining routes is certainly a good idea. I know some people who would have flown from SEN had there been a more convenient flight time and day. Think generally the numbers have been quite good on the remaining new routes - perhaps someone has more details on performance to prove/disprove this?

AirportPlanner1
18th Oct 2017, 14:54
My experience of Antwerp is that it's a great city and if you live in Essex the SEN service made for a very easy journey.

Unfortunately my flights had loads of 15, 12, 12 and 9. I'm not really sure what is so different now, if you need a train from SEN to London you might as well have just got one to Brussels and made your way from there at greater frequency.

tophat27dt
18th Oct 2017, 17:12
Is this the news everyone was talking about last week or is there still more in the pipeline?

No. This has nothing to do with the negotiations which apparently are delayed one month. Personally, I think if we hear nothing by 1st November, we can forget about that one, and move on. Not all exciting plans work out.

tophat27dt
18th Oct 2017, 17:16
Antwerp. I was a bit surprised by this announcement. Was it all set up before VLM announced their 4x daily from LCY? But if marketed well as a summer short break city (both ways) perhaps the 4 flights a week could attract profitable loads. The old town in Antwerp is great for 3 or 4 nights, and Belgian beer is very good.

tws123
18th Oct 2017, 17:42
At 4 flights a week this is clearly aimed at leisure pax, hence why there was no rush to start it at the end of October when the CityJet flights cease.

DC3 Dave
18th Oct 2017, 18:16
Just looked at a tweet from the airport, and read the report in the Echo again. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's the first time I can recall ever seeing (in the context of announcing a new route) Stobart Air featuring rather than just Flybe.

01475
18th Oct 2017, 19:03
Even though Reus, Venice and Perpignan have gone, personally I think that overall the introduction of the new routes this year can now be considered a success. What do others think?

It's looking very much that way.

Phase two (particular in the case of Manchester...) seems far more risky, so it'll be interesting to see how those go. When they announced the big expansion I said it was an interesting test that would demonstrate the capabilities of the airport. I think they've done that and that they've demonstrated what kind of routes can (and can't) work. I think the demonstration may have turned out well for them; it looks like there are lots of types of route that can work, and I suspect they might find airlines interested in (and able to) operate some of them.

Obviously the limits on the airport are unfortunate (I feel from what we have seen that it is likely Air Baltic could in commerical terms operate a C-series to Riga; would that work practically?), but I think that makes the demonstration they've provided all the more important and useful!

tws123
18th Oct 2017, 19:49
Wonder if there is a link between Stobart investing £2million in the new AirPortr luggage delivery service and BA, since at the moment BA seems to be the only airline signed up? Why would Stobart invest in a luggage system that isn't used by any airlines at SEN? Maybe just a company with potential and a mere coincidence.

Barling Magna
18th Oct 2017, 21:46
Don't tell me that BA is the mystery news....... SEN lost that opportunity a while ago, I thought.

tws123
18th Oct 2017, 22:05
SEN lost BA Cityflyer to STN, not BA. I'm just joining two potential dots. I don't see why Stobart would invest heavily in a luggage system that wasn't going to be used by an affiliated airline at SEN. BA are the only airline at present using AirPortr, with another airline to use the system from next month.

01475
18th Oct 2017, 22:18
The BA (branded) operations at STN are of so little significance (remind me; was it 4 flights a week in the summer?) that they can't be compared to a decision regarding basing aircraft. I'll still have to eat my hat if it's them though; just seems like not their kind of airport!

southside bobby
19th Oct 2017, 06:39
For the record & just saying....The w/end Embraer operation @ STN along with some other airports IS British Airways/BAW & the services (of which there were/are 9 destinations this year @ STN for a total of 15 departures per w/end) are operated by BACF who obviously have spare capacity available during LCY`s w/end curfew & also exploiting perceived potential/gaps.
So effectively a win win for both units..Whether it is a permanent model I think no one has ever concluded in the forums..The only permanence & influence I guess being LCY`s obligatory curfew.

DC3 Dave
19th Oct 2017, 09:16
I see this morning's flight to Groningen was cancelled, as was the morning flight to Rennes earlier in the week. And it happened last week as well. Always when there's a later flight. Perhaps there's a good explanation.

Oh! It looks as the divert season has officially started.

rowly6339
19th Oct 2017, 09:37
4th based Easy confirmed from S18
4th based Flybe confirmed from W17
5th based Flybe confirmed from S18

tophat27dt
19th Oct 2017, 09:46
I see this morning's flight to Groningen was cancelled, as was the morning flight to Rennes earlier in the week. And it happened last week as well. Always when there's a later flight. Perhaps there's a good explanation.

Oh! It looks as the divert season has officially started.

Good explanation? Yes. Both destinations had fog.
SEN received 4 LCY diversions this morning, KLM, 2x Luxair and one FlyBe.

DC3 Dave
19th Oct 2017, 09:59
Thanks tophat27dt Can't argue with the facts!

Tagron
19th Oct 2017, 10:30
https://www.investegate.co.uk/stobart-group-ltd--stob-/rns/interim-results/201710190700040136U/

Buster the Bear
19th Oct 2017, 11:17
One less London-Rennes service after Vueling announced it is stopping the route from Gatwick.

mikkie4
19th Oct 2017, 11:41
Did the vueling flight have much of an affect on the sen route to rennes?

tws123
19th Oct 2017, 11:56
Don't think so. It was at a lower frequency to the SEN route so less appealing to business travellers.

asdf1234
19th Oct 2017, 12:46
https://www.investegate.co.uk/stobart-group-ltd--stob-/rns/interim-results/201710190700040136U/

From what I can fathom at a quick glance, and the results are couched in accountancy mud as is usual for Stobart, the Aviation Division results include the revenue arising from the sale and leaseback of the eight ATR aircraft. That revenue was £115m. I think the stated loss for the aviation division of £896k is therefore understated and the loss of £13m under the adjustments and eliminations heading is in fact attributable to the Aviation Division.

Financials to one side, the total passenger numbers look promising at 610K for the 6 months although this hint of an upturn is dampened when you realise that revenue per passenger is down as are passenger loads on the Stobart Air aircraft.

I still question the wisdom of Stobart trying to grow their airport with flights operated by their own airline - it makes little financial sense but I'm guessing they are trying to show other airlines that Southend can generate traffic. Only time will tell but 2.5m pax by 2018 is not an achievable target anymore.

DC3 Dave
19th Oct 2017, 18:19
Now I know I've said before I'm a premium bond man, but should I be tempted by this statement from Stobart's report?

"The Group has the financial resources in place to support the dividend to 2022 at which point the dividend will be supported through operating income".


Can't lose..... can I?

flight_mode
19th Oct 2017, 18:54
Directorspeak for “By 2022 we’ll run out of things to sell and then we’ll fund a dividend by actually making money”.

southside bobby
19th Oct 2017, 18:59
"hopefully"....

Andy_S
19th Oct 2017, 19:16
"The Group has the financial resources in place to support the dividend to 2022 at which point the dividend will be supported through operating income".

If they can see 5 years into the future, it should be easy for them to tell me next weeks lottery numbers......

SARF
19th Oct 2017, 20:20
4.5 p a quarter.
Over 6 per cent yield
There is nothing wrong with selling assets for a profit and returning money to the shareholders via a dividend.
If they sold the airport tomorrow for a billion and returned 3 quid to the share holders and the share price went to 52p. The shareholders would still be happy

Andy_S
20th Oct 2017, 07:16
4.5 p a quarter.
Over 6 per cent yield

It's not sustainable.

There is nothing wrong with selling assets for a profit and returning money to the shareholders via a dividend.

When this happens, it's generally in the form of a one off "special dividend". That's not what Stobart are doing. They've sold off assets to prop up a dividend which is not covered by earnings. The honest thing to have done would be to keep the money in the business and make clear it's there to support development of their aviation business.

If they sold the airport tomorrow for a billion and returned 3 quid to the share holders and the share price went to 52p. The shareholders would still be happy

A billion! Dream on...... You are aware that Stobart don't actually own the leasehold to SEN, aren't you?

Expressflight
20th Oct 2017, 07:38
You are aware that Stobart don't actually own the leasehold to SEN, aren't you?

Pardon? Who does own the leasehold then?

Andy_S
20th Oct 2017, 07:39
Pardon? Who does own the leasehold then?

My apologies - I meant the freehold.......

southside bobby
20th Oct 2017, 07:41
SARF...Why try to defend the indefensible concerning "machinations" within the Stobart boardroom..
Tho obviously completely above board,as yourself I cannot interpret absolutely the "results report" it is put together that way but just common sense should say it is in part "flattering to deceive".
Name a progressive company that continually sells assets to return money in the form of dividend to shareholders?.
Do you honestly think that is best & good practice for a "developing" enterprise?.
It does appear SEN IMHO continues to be a hostage to fortune.

Expressflight
20th Oct 2017, 07:46
My apologies - I meant the freehold.......

I believe the lease has over 100 years to run so that wouldn't negatively affect the sale value of the airport.

southside bobby
20th Oct 2017, 08:03
I really think the previous poster was highlighting the "romance" of SARF`s post in his defence of the "owners" of SEN TBH using a selling figure of £1B..
I think we could put that down to poetic licence as that is all it is.
But it does highlight there are serious questions raised but all defenders here use the usual throwaway style of remark.

Andy_S
20th Oct 2017, 08:33
I really think the previous poster was highlighting the "romance" of SARF`s post in his defence of the "owners" of SEN TBH using a selling figure of £1B..
I think we could put that down to poetic licence as that is all it is.

Of course it was, and I apologise if I came over as a bit scornful……..

I think it’s evident what Stobart Group are trying to do at SEN. Personally, I think it’s a high risk strategy, but the argument that attracting just a fraction of regional point-to-point traffic from the bigger London airports would be lucrative is a compelling one.

My issue, really, is with Stobart Group themselves and the way the company is run. It’s been suggested before that they’re basically a private company in plc clothing, and the way they organise and present their finances does little to persuade me otherwise.

Expressflight
20th Oct 2017, 08:36
Andy_S

A good summary of the situation I think.

flight_mode
20th Oct 2017, 09:41
Of course it was, and I apologise if I came over as a bit scornful……..

I think it’s evident what Stobart Group are trying to do at SEN. Personally, I think it’s a high risk strategy, but the argument that attracting just a fraction of regional point-to-point traffic from the bigger London airports would be lucrative is a compelling one.

My issue, really, is with Stobart Group themselves and the way the company is run. It’s been suggested before that they’re basically a private company in plc clothing, and the way they organise and present their finances does little to persuade me otherwise.

+1 to that. How they can run an airline without reporting anything other than a fairly meaningless load factor % and On Time Performance is beyond me.

asdf1234
20th Oct 2017, 17:53
In defence of Stobart they are a listed company and do comply with the onerous reporting requirements that are imposed on them.

Uniquely for an airport operator they have eggs in many baskets including rail, biomass and property investment. No one division has to shine as long as the overall objective is met.

For SEN watchers it is frustrating to see continuing poor performance at the airport, lack of new airlines, and a general lack of progress on targets. But from a group point of view they do have time to turn the ship around. I can't see dividend payments covered until 2022 but they will be covered in the medium term which gives the group time to consolidate pax numbers and crucially, pax profit.

My views on inviting in EZY and running Stobart flights from the airport are well known. However Stobat Group is far from finished. Do they need to sell the airport by 2022? Yes. Do they need to panic now. No!

Planespeaking
20th Oct 2017, 18:02
Remember it took a good number of years before LCY became accepted and established. Perhaps sometimes we expect too much too soon. So long as Stobart shareholders are prepared to take the long view they should get a good return, in my opinion.

SARF
20th Oct 2017, 19:05
I don't give a crap what stobart do..
Currently stobart group is worth a shade under 1 billion pounds
Hence my 1 bill airport sale making the shareholders approx 2.60 odd a share plus what's left over ..
It matter not one jot wether the company is a go getting achiever.
What matters is what it's worth and what it Pays out
If it sells itself for 4 quid a share and ceases to exist the share holders will not be crying into their beer ..
Call it a takeover if you want

SWBKCB
20th Oct 2017, 19:17
The price of everything and the value of nothing - the short term thinking which has served British industry so well :ok:

Is 'Jet Blast' this way?