Southend-2

[mikkie4]

about time that plane was sent to the great scrap yard in the sky,,,,,who pays for the hire of the TITAN aircraft and crew ? STOBARTS OR FLYBE?

[DC3 Dave]

Cost of bringing in Titan is all down to Stobart. But don't worry, they've probably negotiated a substantial discount as a regular customer.

[compton3bravo]

I wouldn't put a bet on that DC3 Dave knowing Titan, they drive a hard bargain. You want one of our aircraft you pay for it my boy!

[22/04]

That 737-400 will see BA pax this summer. Nothing wrong with old aircraft for Titan's strategy-low utilisation but also low lease/purchase prices.

Assume Stobart pay-they have responsibility to operate the flight. Are the Embraers at SEN less reliable than elsewhere- we don't hear much about Cardiff/Doncaster/Exeter etc/.

[Barling Magna]

It seems to be G-BFEF that's so unreliable. Must have been a Friday afternoon in Sao Jose dos Campos when they built that one.......

[AirportPlanner1]

A lot of angry people on social media as both today’s DUB flights ended up being cancelled, the first one occurring after pax had already been delayed 3+ hours. All 4 flights were pretty full as well. The unreliability of that aircraft is becoming an issue.

It wasn’t such a problem when the spare ATR was around, now all aircraft are being fully utilised the cracks are showing.

[tophat27dt]

If this one particular aircaft is a bit of a dog, why can't they withdraw it for one week, stick it in an engineering hangar and fix it? Is it engines, electronics, ?

[mikkie4]

is it down to Stobart or flybe to get this plane fixed?

[Barling Magna]

Lease some nice new C-series Stobart..........

[shamrock7seal]

Until June, it's Flybe

[Expressflight]

A Titan 734 has just departed STN for SEN reportedly to operate two extra DUB flights today, in addition to the three flights scheduled, with the first departure at 0915L and the second at 1245L.

[southside bobby]

More problems?....

Titan B734 enroute SEN from STN with Stobart positioning flight number.

[Planespeaking]

More problems?....

Titan B734 enroute SEN from STN with Stobart positioning flight number.

Do aircraft not go tech at STN then?

[southside bobby]

Ah....see an amended answer to my post above...

Jolly good....a win win for Essex airports then.

[southside bobby]

Ah...Planespeaking.

We are up to date & speed thanks.....regard the posts above now.

Titan a/c position anywhere within Europe most mornings to cover AOG`s...the reason I mentioned this particular one was the current debate on the SEN forum with mostly SEN input concerning the serviceability of STK EMB`s that`s all.

[compton3bravo]

One Titan aircraft positioned into Luton from Lisbon last night (B757) night stopped to operate a charter to Ibiza this morning, so bang goes your theory. Any possible profit for Stobart this weekend gone out of the window having to sub in aircraft to cover tech aircraft.

[southside bobby]

The Titan aeroplane mentioned by c3b has now positioned into STN from IBZ...so?.

I`m none too sure whose theory has gone bang?..Mine tho was not a theory but fact.

Certainly correct in the last sentence regarding profit but with more general press statements from Stobart stating they have many millions available for building STK awareness,route development & promotions released from the sale of assets thru to 2022 then these latest sub charters will not be noticed.

[rog747]

if the 757 pos'nd back to base at STN empty from IBZ that's normal coz this is the start of the season flights
so the first inbounds back to blighty will be empty - those empty legs are costed in the summer series

[southside bobby]

Thanks rog747...

& perfectly correct...

Although the wording from c3b was poorly spaced it read partly as an "attempted correction" to my earlier post re Titan`s modus.

Onwards....

[4eyed anorak]

New services for Southend!
routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/278146/airmalta-adds-london-southend-service-from-may-2018/

Regards 4ea

[southside bobby]

All very old news it appears...

[Barling Magna]

Yes, that's last winter I think when new routes were indeed announced.

[AirportPlanner1]

If it’s in December ski routes would be obvious choice...probably some combination of two or three of Chambery, Innsbruck, Salzburg, Turin, Zurich, Turin and Verona.

Could even be EZY rather than BE...they tend to announce new routes in the weeks after the season goes on sale.

[tws123]

My mistake it was a linked video to an article posted today. I will remove my previous posts.

[tws123]

An interesting read and analysis of SEN - London Southend bounces back with 25% growth in 2017; two new carriers announced, Dublin and Amsterdam are top destinations (http://www.anna.aero/2018/04/17/london-southend-bounces-back-with-25-growth-in-2017-two-new-carriers-announced-dublin-and-amsterdam-are-top-destinations/)

[SWBKCB]

Nobody can doubt what Stobart have achieved (though using phrases such as "Off the charts growth" is a bit disingenuous when starting from such a low base), but no mention of how much they've spent?!?

[DC3 Dave]

An interesting read and analysis of SEN - London Southend bounces back with 25% growth in 2017; two new carriers announced, Dublin and Amsterdam are top destinations (http://www.anna.aero/2018/04/17/london-southend-bounces-back-with-25-growth-in-2017-two-new-carriers-announced-dublin-and-amsterdam-are-top-destinations/)

There certainly are some interesting nuggets in that article along with some silly stats - top of which must be the doubling this year of airlines offering scheduled services, welcome as Air Malta and Loganair are.

I don't believe Edinburgh and Belfast would have been mentioned unless something is shortly to be announced.

Now, many contributors on this thread have stated that Bernard Lavelle is a man to be taken seriously. So when he states that SEN will reach 1.8 - 2 million pax this year, I'll do just that. Because the alternative is he has developed a severe case of Stobartitis.

[SEN Observer]

I see from the banner across the top of the SEN website that Greater Anglia will be operating a full service this weekend, 24th and 25th April. Odd that; I wonder what strange calendar they're using as I reckon this weekend is April 21st and 22nd. How can they manage such basic bog ups?

[tophat27dt]

I see from the banner across the top of the SEN website that Greater Anglia will be operating a full service this weekend, 24th and 25th April. Odd that; I wonder what strange calendar they're using as I reckon this weekend is April 21st and 22nd. How can they manage such basic bog ups?
We are already aware that those in charge of the Website are totally incompetent. Despite my critical emails to them I receive only nonsense replies.

[EssexMan61]

Apologies if I have missed things - but is there news / development on the expanded baggage facilities for which - I think - planning permission was given a month or two back? I passed by today and everything looked the same.

[DC3 Dave]

Apologies if I have missed things - but is there news / development on the expanded baggage facilities for which - I think - planning permission was given a month or two back? I passed by today and everything looked the same.

In the recent anna.aero article it said work on the extension should start late 2018. I seem to recall it was due to be open by then.

[DC3 Dave]

Champagne days at the airport are over, it seems.

Bourgee restaurants goes into administration | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16173008.Bourgee_restaurants_goes_into_administration/)

Perhaps Stobart could step in and offer an alternative. Moet with Cumberland sausage moose?

Seriously, if the administrators close down the terminal outlet, it won't look good.

[EssexMan61]

DC3 Dave -

I am sure that Lakers sell champagne. Heaven forbid that you may be posting a deliberately anti-SEN theory!!

Given that there are / were 4 Bourgee locations - Southend E/E, SEN, Chelmsford, and BSt.E - it would be interesting to know which if any the administrators can rescue.

[SEN Observer]

The Bourgee on Eastern Esplanade Southend has been closed for a week or two now. I understand that there is a notice on the door saying temporarily closed and will reopen under new management. Doubt it will (unless someone knows better).

[Planespeaking]

Champagne days at the airport are over, it seems.

Bourgee restaurants goes into administration | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16173008.Bourgee_restaurants_goes_into_administration/)

Perhaps Stobart could step in and offer an alternative. Moet with Cumberland sausage moose?

Seriously, if the administrators close down the terminal outlet, it won't look good.
Surely you know that airport retail outlets open and close all the time. If Bourgee was offering what people want it would be successful, obviously it didn't. With pax numbers increasing it won't be a vacant space for long.

[DC3 Dave]

Surely you know that airport retail outlets open and close all the time. If Bourgee was offering what people want it would be successful, obviously it didn't. With pax numbers increasing it won't be a vacant space for long.

Yes I do, and it will make no difference to the success of the airport because nobody will reconsider their travel plans because Bourgee's bubbles have bust. But it's a small terminal and Stobart considered the champagne bar to be the star of departures and promoted it as such.

[Planespeaking]

Yes I do, and it will make no difference to the success of the airport because nobody will reconsider their travel plans because Bourgee's bubbles have bust. But it's a small terminal and Stobart considered the champagne bar to be the star of departures and promoted it as such.

Perhaps we should replace it with a more original Estuary culinary outlet. A shrimp,winkle, jellied eel and whelk stall. Pass the vinegar, but don't sit next to me on the flight!, Oh and a bottle of Pale Ale😇

[AirportPlanner1]

Bourgee always seems busy whenever I see it, and they must make money with the prices they charge. But if the parent company goes it doesn’t matter if you’re making millions, you’re going down with them.

[Bjarte]

I had a connection at SEN today, I flew DUB - SEN - GRQ. The facilities are not yet in order for this. It does not seem so difficult to me to make a transfer passage. Just open the wall and it is done. Now I had to go through security again. That does not necessarily take a lot of time, because it is a small airport. But it is uncomfortable.

The flight from Dublin was delayed for 45 minutes, so it was tight. Ground staff indicated that the flight to Groningen would wait anyway. So they did.

Both GRQ flights were 50% filled. The DUB flight at 18/04 only had 18 pax! The flight of today was almost completely full.

[DC3 Dave]

The last wave of EZY departures today has 4 aircraft. All SEN based?

[Expressflight]

No, still only three based aircraft. Two of the today's GVA flights are operated on W-patterns with a GVA based and a BFS based aircraft.

[davidjohnson6]

Chateauroux start date changed earlier from 26 April to 29 April, and now further amended to 17 May

[tophat27dt]

Chateauroux start date changed earlier from 26 April to 29 April, and now further amended to 17 May

I assume this will continue like this until end of summer...beam me up Scotty

[DC3 Dave]

I assume this will continue like this until end of summer...beam me up Scotty

It's not looking good. But we must Klingon to the possibility that this route will get off the ground.

[davidjohnson6]

It would be a shame if Southend-Chateauroux doesn't operate at all over S18. My understanding is that in an area where train connections are lousy (even with all the Govt subsidy to SNCF) the local Govt and airport are trying really hard to turn Chateauroux into somewhere with real air connectivity (and not just weekly flights to the beach) so as to improve the local economy

[DC3 Dave]

Looking on Google Maps, I noticed the satellite image of the airport has been updated since I last looked.

The image provided is clearly from last summer and it shows the groundwork on the field in its early stages.

The works are now complete and operations should benefit from the investment made. Is anyone able to expand on this, and whether the improvements will help the never ending quest attracting new operators?

[Expressflight]

I believe that some of the work carried out last summer was to meet the requirements of an operator who was in the frame to commence a substantial route network from SEN in 2018. This deal fell through at the last minute but it was unclear whether or not that represented the end of the matter or just that the plans were postponed. Before anyone asks I cannot reveal the identity of the operator.

[Barling Magna]

Let's hope the plans were simply postponed, and that no further slots are freed up at LTN and LGW due to the collapse of another operator as happened when Monarch folded.......

[tws123]

If they were interested in launching a 'substantial route network' from SEN before, then they'll likely re-evaluate those plans once more, perhaps when more aircraft become available to them. Time will tell...

[mikkie4]

please tell ..what was the airline

[DC3 Dave]

mikkie4

You'll find the answer around an hour and a quarters drive from Southend Airport (traffic permitting). In a place with a huge orange hanger. Another airline had attractive slots there which became available. The airline you want the name of considered the opportunity to increase their business at this place with the huge orange hanger was not one they were going to pass on even if plans may (or may not have been - I really don't know) at the advanced stage elsewhere.

GEE! You must know who it is by now.

[tophat27dt]

please tell ..what was the airline

Hush hush.....it's secret!

[LTNman]

Well if it was Easyjet they did not pick up the Monarch slots as they were taken by Wizz and I find it hard to believe it was Wizz when they have cut capacity from many UK airports. All Southend would do is dilute their Luton passenger base when Brexit brings its own issues.

[DC3 Dave]

I think airlines of any significance explore all viable options in some detail. So if an operator sits down and thrashes out agreement on a few key matters, maybe carry out technical assesments, this only means the airport keeps itself in the frame as a possible - no more than that.

Of course, if you're talking about an airport where key slots are as rare as hen's teeth, the balance of power shifts. But SEN isn't in that catagory.

​I think it's fair to say the Monarch situation hasn't helped SEN, neither has Brexit (some say). But I don't think you can conclude that SEN would have announced another major operator by now if those events had not happened.

[01475]

Well if it was Easyjet they did not pick up the Monarch slots as they were taken by Wizz and I find it hard to believe it was Wizz when they have cut capacity from many UK airports. All Southend would do is dilute their Luton passenger base when Brexit brings its own issues.

Does that leave Norwegian then? :)

[flight_mode]

So Stobart decided to expand their underutilised airport on the basis of a discussion with Big Orange (or whoever) before an agreement was even signed? How many times will they demostrate the “build it and they’ll come” model isn’t working?

[LTNman]

Seems like a good idea to me. You only have to look at what has happened in Bedfordshire to see they have got caught out big time. Southend is ready and waiting with no pain for its passengers.

[Tagron]

May I suggest it is time for an end to uninformed speculation about an event that failed to materialise over six months ago ?

Its clear enough to me that some of the recent posters have no idea of what they are talking about.

[DC3 Dave]

To be fair a lot of the work carried out was essential repair, such as replacing taxiway bravo which was falling apart. Choosing to improve / upgrade at the same time seems like a good idea to me.

Spending your money on infrastructure instead of using it to support your dividend works for me.

[01475]

Isn't it a bit early to say it's not working?

It's also too early to say it has worked; I'd feel more comfortable saying that if they weren't operating so many of the flights themselves, and if they had survived an oil price shock.

But... it seems to be going OK so far...

[flight_mode]

To be fair a lot of the work carried out was essential repair, such as replacing taxiway bravo which was falling apart. Choosing to improve / upgrade at the same time seems like a good idea to me.

Spending your money on infrastructure instead of using it to support your dividend works for me.

Fair comment, you're right, but perhaps utilising your existing infrastructure to support the dividend is even more important.

[Planespeaking]

So Stobart decided to expand their underutilised airport on the basis of a discussion with Big Orange (or whoever) before an agreement was even signed? How many times will they demostrate the “build it and they’ll come” model isn’t working?
Ltnman is very generous with his comments. STN, LCY and even LGW were very underused at the beginning of their operation. Those airports were built and airlines did come, in the case of LCY it took several years and false dawns before it became established.

[Expressflight]

​I think it's fair to say the Monarch situation hasn't helped SEN, neither has Brexit (some say). But I don't think you can conclude that SEN would have announced another major operator by now if those events had not happened.

You can if you know the full story.

[DC3 Dave]

You can if you know the full story.

There you go! So, even if I didn't have a clue what I was talking about as I think was suggested, I've ended up better informed.

[SEN Observer]

I assume Flightradar24 is telling porkies and a TUI B757 from Malaga hasn't landed at SEN rather than LGW in the last 45 minutes or so?

[tophat27dt]

It did land at Gatwick.

[canberra97]

Ltnman is very generous with his comments. STN, LCY and even LGW were very underused at the beginning of their operation. Those airports were built and airlines did come, in the case of LCY it took several years and false dawns before it became established.

LGW expanded from 1976 onwards with major development of it's terminal and the replacement of the original Pier 2 to accommodate the new generation of widebodies.

HM Government and the BAA wanted to expand LGW as it at the time the airport was seeing considerable increased passenger numbers as London's second major airport.

In 1977 LHR was closed to all new airlines and was seen as full, LGW took up the mantle with ever increasing airlines starting flights with passenger numbers growing.

That was the reason for LGW huge expansion and the airport was already seeing 5 million passengers in 1977.

[tophat27dt]

I see there is an arrival on the board from Chateauroux today but no departure flight
​​​​​​flight. Oddly enough there is no flight showing on the Chateauroux departure board to SEN so is this merely a proving flight or perhaps a meeting with Stobart?

[runwayman]

I see there is an arrival on the board from Chateauroux today but no departure flight
​​​​​​flight. Oddly enough there is no flight showing on the Chateauroux departure board to SEN so is this merely a proving flight or perhaps a meeting with Stobart?

Supposed to be ferrying out empty to Hannover

[Expressflight]

The late Winter 2018/19 timetable released by EZY this morning fills in some of the spare slots on the 4th SEN-based aircraft. The whole programme seems to be operated using based aircraft only.

[Expressflight]

I see there is an arrival on the board from Chateauroux today but no departure flight
​​​​​​flight. Oddly enough there is no flight showing on the Chateauroux departure board to SEN so is this merely a proving flight or perhaps a meeting with Stobart?
It looks like it's a pax flight as it should be returning on Sunday to operate SEN-CHR. Maybe the first weekend of the original timetable sold OK from the French end and then there will be a break until 17th May before regular scheduling commences. It appears to me that both today's and Sunday's flight is shown on CHR's rather minimalist website departure board.

[DC3 Dave]

Chateauroux added today as a destination on SEN's website.

[runwayman]

10 Passengers in

[tophat27dt]

Thank you guys for the updates. 10 pax is a starter and at least it did operate. Now that this is shown on the website and probably soon in the local press it should gain some momentum. It's s lovely area. I wish them good luck.

[ajamieson]

It's s lovely area.
Chatearoux, not Southend :E

[tophat27dt]

Oh yes, not Southend. The French all come over for London I guess.

[Barling Magna]

15 pax on today's Chateauroux arrival.

[tophat27dt]

Not 10 pax as earlier reported?

[tws123]

Official press release said 15.

[DC3 Dave]

Can I pose a question to all my friend, and everyone else.

With EZY moving to a fleet of aircraft that carry at least 186 pax, and FR 197. Do aircraft that can take a little over an hundred have a big future snaffeling up the routes that the aforementioned are too big for? Or are they becoming increasingly irrelevant?

You will all appreciate the question in relation to SEN.

[SWBKCB]

Can I pose a question to all my friend, and everyone else.

With EZY moving to a fleet of aircraft that carry at least 186 pax, and FR 197. Do aircraft that can take a little over an hundred have a big future snaffeling up the routes that the aforementioned are too big for? Or are they becoming increasingly irrelevant?

You will all appreciate the question in relation to SEN.

Couple of points - which a/c would be used? CS100, EMB-195? Not being built in the numbers of the 737/A32X, so probably not on any scale. Also, if there was that big a market, would the LCC's be abandoning it?

[tophat27dt]

Oh dear. The early morning MAN flight both ways has been cancelled. Maybe some pax can wait until the afternoon flight or go by train?

[runwayman]

Not 10 pax as earlier reported?

Definitely 10 passengers off

[tophat27dt]

10 pax and 5 crew perhaps!

[Barling Magna]

Well the press release says fifteen. Mind you, there only appear to be eight on the lower photo: https://www.lanouvellerepublique.fr/indre/commune/deols/chateauroux-londres-premier-decollage

[Barling Magna]

At least the government is aware of the new service: IGAvion starts London Southend service (http://www.anna.aero/2018/04/27/igavion-starts-london-southend-services/)

[compton3bravo]

Three wallies together.

[Barling Magna]

That's a bit harsh c3b, but only on Glyn Jones.

[tophat27dt]

All MPs are wallies, but I think Glyn Jones is respected as CEO of Stobart.

[asdf1234]

I've met Glyn Jones. I wasn't impressed.

[Expressflight]

Well the press release says fifteen. Mind you, there only appear to be eight on the lower photo: https://www.lanouvellerepublique.fr/indre/commune/deols/chateauroux-londres-premier-decollage
The press release actually says "une quinzaine a prendre place ..." which translates as "about fifteen boarded ....". The French use 'une quinzaine' in the same way we would use 'about a dozen' so it doesn't literally mean fifteen but it still seems a bit much to use that phrase if there were only actually 10 pax on board.

[Barling Magna]

Ah, you should read to the end of the article where it states: " Quinze passagers ont pris part à ce premier vol vers Londres ".

[Expressflight]

Ah, you should read to the end of the article where it states: " Quinze passagers ont pris part à ce premier vol vers Londres ".
Quite right, I hadn't scrolled down past the photograph. Still the other poster sounded quite certain it was only 10 pax.

[DC3 Dave]

8/10/15 on the inaugural flight from Chateauroux? Whatever the number, you wouldn't think the Secretary of State for Transport would clear his diary to be there. And no PR release regarding his visit in the local press. Sounds like an announcement coming early next week to me.
​​​​​​

[tophat27dt]

The Evening Echo probably haven't checked their inbox recently. Anyway the minister was there to discuss future plans and the Chatearoux flight was probably a coincidence.

[compton3bravo]

The transport minister has a remarkable knack of going somewhere totally different to when he would be the centre of attention to a news story, i.e. yesterday a report regarding Govia Thameslink, Southern on the shambolic way it is being run especially over the last two years plus the franchise railway system. So let's troll off to Southend Airport away from the flak. Of course, just remembered a big supporter of our PM, enough said.

[Tagron]

And how about you trolling off somewhere else and stop trashing this thread.? The thread really doesn't need any more wallies.

[Expressflight]

In view of recent remarks I hesitate to post this but at the end of the Anna Aero news story linked previously, Glyn Jones is quoted as saying:

"This is just the start, we've more big plans for 2018 in the pipeline."

Might be something brewing or might be nothing but fluff, though no way of knowing which.

[DC3 Dave]

Anyway the minister was there to discuss future plans and the Chatearoux flight was probably a coincidence.

Yes, exactly my point. But, he wouldn't have just popped in for a cup of tea and a general chin-wag. It's the future plans bit that interests me.

Still, as you often advise us, "Wait and see".

[AirportPlanner1]

They do just pop in for a chat if there is an election. As it happens, there is one this coming Thursday.

This will have zero to do with the route launch. Pure coincidence.

[tophat27dt]

I had to laugh at my own thoughts when I woke up this morning. I envisaged dozens of people with binoculars all in different strategic positions counting the number of passengers in and out on the Chatearoux flight today. Then I assume we will need to calculate an average figure once all the reports are in! I really must get out more! Lol.

[Expressflight]

Chateauroux start date changed earlier from 26 April to 29 April, and now further amended to 17 May
Amended again this morning when I looked, with the flights between now and 17th May being reinstated as per the original timetable.

[Pain in the R's]

I had to laugh at my own thoughts when I woke up this morning. I envisaged dozens of people with binoculars all in different strategic positions counting the number of passengers in and out on the Chatearoux flight today. Then I assume we will need to calculate an average figure once all the reports are in! I really must get out more! Lol.

Think it is safe to say there are more posts than passengers.

Is Southend that desperate that the difference between one set of figures and another is that critical?

[tophat27dt]

No. It's local humourous banter to cheese off all the old misery guts here.

[LGS6753]

Article in 'Blue Swan' today:

https://blueswandaily.com/southend-may-be-londons-smallest-airport-but-it-may-have-its-biggest-opportunity/

[LTNman]

London Southend is currently the fastest growing London airport and surpassed the one million passenger milestone in 2017

I just love how statistics can be manipulated to put the slant on any story. It is really great to see Southend on the rise but I can turn Southend into London's worst performing airport by looking at the same figures in another way.

Actual passenger 12 months growth figures from Feb 2017 to Feb 2018:

Heathow 2.1 million
Gatwick 1.93 million
Stansted 1.62 million
Luton 1.17 million
Southend 253,000

As can be seen Southend by a long way is still actually London's worst performing airport for year on year actual growth and only picked up around 25% of the extra passengers the next worst performing airport did. At the same time but starting from a low figure Southend is also the fastest growing London Airport. That title will remain until Oxford picks up a couple of extra passengers as at the moment that airport registers zero.

So today we celebrate the rise of Southend and rightly so but we all have to see the bigger picture than is being pumped out by the spin doctors.

[asdf1234]

I have to agree with Ltnman. If there was additional demand of 6m pax last year why did Southend not hoover this lot up? They have been telling everyone for years now that they are not slot restricted, they offer a better pax experience and they have unconstrained capacity to play with. And despite all of this 6m pax went to one of the overcrowded capacity constrained airports instead of Southend. There is something seriously wrong with how the airport is approaching this.

[Barling Magna]

[QUOTE There is something seriously wrong with how the airport is approaching this. QUOTE]

That may well be true, but let's remember that SEN's runway is restricted. How many of those additional passengers could have come to SEN anyway?

I am surprised that SEN hasn't attracted more foreign airlines to use it as a gateway to London in the way that it used to be so many decades ago when LTU, Braathens, Martinair, SABENA, Transair, Fred Olsen, Schreiner and many more filled the apron. Perhaps the new Air Malta service will be the straw in the wind which raises SEN's profile in Europe.....

[DC3 Dave]

As I've said before the majority of pax listed as growth at London airports would have been on aircraft that cannot operate from SEN. Potential is limited by this and you could argue that growth has been remarkable against this background.

However, most of the 2018 growth is organic. So, I guess the arguments will continue with validity from many perspectives.

[cumbrianboy]

Let's put this into perspective. The additional passengers at london's airports is not necessarily additional flights or routes, and is made up of many factors.

For example, If the average load factor on flights at Heathrow increases by just 2%, which with a buoyant economy and increases competition, is quite possible, then that translates to an additional 1.5 million passengers a year through Heathrow.

And this is wihout any additional flights.

Likewise if BA upgrade a load of 767 routes onto the 773 /747/ A380 you get bit increases in actual passengers, same with upscaling the A319 to the A320 and BA's seat intensification of the narrow body fleet.

With auch a large existing capacity base, these numbers translate into big passenger number increases

then add this effect up for Gatwick Luton and Stansted and you see that actually the efforts by Southend are in fact substantial and should be applauded, especially as Southend does not have much to start with so all growth in effect comes from the airports efforts in adding new routes and airlines etc.

I maintain they have done an excellent job, and continue to do so and don't deserve the constant management bashing they seem to get on this forum

[LGS6753]

LTU, Braathens, Martinair, SABENA, Transair, Fred Olsen, Schreiner

Not sure any of these exist any longer. In any case, there seem to be fewer and fewer successful scheduled airlines as those operating large aircraft have to compete directly with the likes of EZY and RYR, and those operating smaller aircraft have to compete with the economic value perception created by EZY and RYR.

[SWBKCB]

For example, If the average load factor on flights at Heathrow increases by just 2%, which with a buoyant economy and increases competition, is quite possible, then that translates to an additional 1.5 million passengers a year through Heathrow.

Yes - but getting back to LTNman's original post, if you double not very much you still have not very much - this makes comments such as "London's fastest growing airport" pointless, and making a more series point such spin/waffle/BS can undermine the integrity of the rest of your messages.

[Planespeaking]

Yes - but getting back to LTNman's original post, if you double not very much you still have not very much - this makes comments such as "London's fastest growing airport" pointless, and making a more series point such spin/waffle/BS can undermine the integrity of the rest of your messages.
All this dancing on the head of a pin over which airport is growing fastest or slowest is really rather tedious and prompts the response of ' get a life.' Surely after £150 million of investment at SEN Stobart are to be commended, the airport is growing, new operators are appearing albeit slowly, and remember it took LCY years and a number of false dawns before it became fully established. So a little less of mine is bigger than yours would be welcome.

[Red Four]

Whilst I agree that this a typical P.R. piece, I'm intrigued by how LTN Man already has the 2018 figures to hand - perhaps the development at Luton included a fancy time machine?Actual passenger growth 2017 vs 2018:
Hmmm, let's have a wider look at London airports between 2016 and 2017, specifically LCY 2016: 4,538,813; LCY 2017: 4,530,439, a "negative growth" of 8,374.
I just love how statistics can be manipulated to put the slant on any story.
Planesspeaking, agree entirely, however just 'illuminating' the discussion on my part.

[LTNman]

Whilst I agree that this a typical P.R. piece, I'm intrigued by how LTN Man already has the 2018 figures to hand - perhaps the development at Luton included a fancy time machine?


For your benefit the stats have been corrected to February 2018. Deduct 12 months and that is 2017

[Red Four]

Thank you LTNman. Do you still maintain that: Southend by a long way is still actually London's worst performing airport for year on year actual growth]

[LTNman]

I was just pointing out that folk need to look through the spin and that I could write a piece about how well Southend is doing based on the above figures but equally I could write a piece about how bad Southend is doing based on the same set of figures.

I think we all agree that Southend is the new kid on the block and the investment is paying off gradually with new routes and airlines. I can't see any reason why Southend will not add a million passengers in the next year or two.

[Red Four]

Yes, I agree. I think that many on here are actually quite adept at looking through the spin peddled in the media (and internet fora:) ).

[Barling Magna]

The first Air Malta flight from Luqa has arrived safely at SEN, taxiing in to a water arch welcome. Nice to have them back, and every best wish for the success of their initiative.

[mikkie4]

138 passengers on the first out bound to malta...good start lets hope that it continues

[AirportPlanner1]

I wonder what the logic was behind scheduling this morning’s flight to MAN but not the late one, on a Bank Holiday. I heard only a couple went northbound, about 30 on the return leg. Surely an evening flight would have been far more sensible.

[Expressflight]

I wonder what the logic was behind scheduling this morning’s flight to MAN but not the late one, on a Bank Holiday. I heard only a couple went northbound, about 30 on the return leg. Surely an evening flight would have been far more sensible.
Your post inadvertently makes it sound as though there was only one SEN-MAN rotation yesterday. The first and second flights, scheduled for 0635 & 1440 departure from SEN, operated as normal but there was no third flight which is timetabled at 1835. This never appeared on the departure boards so wasn't cancelled on the day but I don't know why and, as you rightly say, one would think the evening flight on a Bank Holiday Monday might be the most popular.

[mikkie4]

AIR MALTA & EZY going head to head today ..Malta via Catania 121 pax.... Malta direct 138 pax, wonder how many are only going as far as Catania..either way a good set of numbers (info taken from SEN face book page)

[Bee Rexit]

I am going to Malta from SEN in July with Easyjet, We have had an aircraft change to an A320 so a few more bums on seats expected.
I think Malta was always going to be a good route. Surprised it took so long to come and then suddenly two carriers are trying it.

[asdf1234]

Results posted today. Aviation division loss for year ended 28th Feb increased to £9.7m from a loss of £4.6m last year. Not brilliant news and something needs to change soon. Given the group as a whole made a loss (when the disposal of the Eddie Stobart is removed from the calculations) I can't see how much longer the other divisions (rail and infrastructure) can support the aviation black hole.

[tws123]

As was previously thought, Monarch's collapse leads to Wizzair expanding at Luton instead of SEN - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/southend-airport-fails-to-take-off-after-monarch-s-collapse-2rr9j3pk6

[DC3 Dave]

Wow!! Did I get just read Warwick Brady briefing against Stobart Air? Phrases like "Saving your own backside" come to mind.

[SWBKCB]

Wow!! Did I get just read Warwick Brady briefing against Stobart Air? Phrases like "Saving your own backside" come to mind.

Care to expand?

[Planespeaking]

As was previously thought, Monarch's collapse leads to Wizzair expanding at Luton instead of SEN - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/southend-airport-fails-to-take-off-after-monarch-s-collapse-2rr9j3pk6
The trouble is that article is behind a paywall, therefore unless you subscribe it can't be read.

[DC3 Dave]

Warwick Brady, chief executive, said that his abortive plans to merge Stobart’s aircraft fleet with Flybe remained a good idea. “We have said we don’t plan to be a long-term holder of Stobart Air,” he said. “We saw real value in putting the business together. Our plan was to take a minority stake and become an active investor in Flybe.”

As an 'expert' in aviation , was Warwick Brady not expected to grow Stobart Air? Isn't he now suggesting it needs to be disposed of because of the stated need to support the dividend? And given how much the Aviation Division depends on Flybe/Stobart pax is this the start of a downward spiral for the airport?

[asdf1234]

The downward spiral began when Stobart gave easyJet a 10 year sweetheart deal to entice them to the airport. It was daft as no other airline wants to go head to head with the orange mob. Stobart spent £10m in the past 12 months on incentives to bring airlines to the airport. And all they got was Air Malta. Really??? Management state that they want to exploit the capacity restraints at London airports yet other London airports grew passenger footfall by 6m. And Southend pays £10m to get a few thousand pax to fly to and from Malta. The end of the easyJet deal cannot come soon enough. Once their free ride is over easyJet will return to Stansted and the airport can attract all those airlines that are currently scared away. If anyone doubts me about the free deal easyJet enjoy just look at the results. 1m pax and still not making money!

[SWBKCB]

Once their free ride is over easyJet will return to Stansted and the airport can attract all those airlines that are currently scared away.

Like who? and will they deliver the volume that EZY currently do?

[Barling Magna]

There are plenty of viable routes that EZY haven't tried from SEN, especially to Scandinavian destinations, so we can't really use that as an excuse for failing to attract more airlines. The Wizz Air/Monarch slots episode was unlucky for SEN though. How many pax have Wizz Air brought to LTN?

[LTNman]

5.5 million passengers to October 2017. This year with its new base that will increase to 6.9 million according to Wizz.

Not sure if those extra 1.4 million passengers are lost Southend passengers

https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-and-services/about-us/news/2017/11/20/wizz-air-announces-major-expansion-at-london-luton#/

[cumbrianboy]

The notion that IF easyJet leave Southend is a good thing is so far beyond ridiculous I am lost for words.

easyJet are the reason Southend has an airport, they're the only operator that can give Southend what it needs in terms of reach of routes and capacity.

[tophat27dt]

I guess we will never know but last year apparently they were interested in starting with two departures a day, so approx 175x4x365 could have achieved roughly a quarter of a million.

[tophat27dt]

The notion that IF easyJet leave Southend is a good thing is so far beyond ridiculous I am lost for words.

easyJet are the reason Southend has an airport, they're the only operator that can give Southend what it needs in terms of reach of routes and capacity.
i am a believer that Easyjet will stay at SEN after the 10 years deal expires, because if they think that all their customers would happily move to STN too, they would be wrong. Loads are good on all of their current destinations. However, at the same time, I would not rely on them to add more destinations. For those, new airlines need to be encouraged.

[compton3bravo]

It is yield dear boy not loads, how many more times!

[tophat27dt]

And that is privy only to the airline.

[Expressflight]

And that is privy only to the airline.
Indeed, but as best one can judge these things from outside the airline I reckon yields are probably also quite good.

[tophat27dt]

Thank you. I agree too.

[22/04]

I think Easy was a real catch for SEN and gives them a different way to catch Essex and East London pax from operating ex STN where they are subject to predation by Ryanair.

If however there were others willing to operate routes from SEN why didn't they come forward to do so - and in their absence why did Stobart have to initiate services?

[FRatSTN]

If what's suggested with regards to the Wizz Air speculation (that they were a lost product to ex Monarch capacity at LTN), hardly shows much of a proactive or confident approach to deliver organic growth from SEN.

Would be very worried if SEN's focus was based around effectively carrying an over-spill of traffic from rival airports. Reality is, slots would inevitably become available in some way, shape or form at some point in the future, at which time the airline would just up sticks and move back/consolidate to wherever (LTN in Wizz Air's case). Sadly, I fear Air Malta could've been enticed on rather similar terms and won't stay in SEN any longer than maybe a couple of years.

SEN needs to attract strategic long-term partners for a sustainable growth strategy. EZY, I think at least for the foreseeable future, is the only airline that can truly deliver that for SEN.

[tophat27dt]

SEN passenger figures for March totalled 91723, an increase of 38% on the previous year.

[DC3 Dave]

SEN passenger figures for March totalled 91723, an increase of 38% on the previous year.

And that can't be a bad thing. But now Warwick Brady has stated the Group are willing to part with Stobart Air, the vehicle responsible for a large chunk of that growth.

Maybe new owners would not be so enthusiastic about operations from SEN, though I guess they would be tied into the franchise agreement.

I can't see any more growth coming from Stobart Air, so let's hope the airport can deliver another way.

Does anyone else get the impression Mr Brady is sulking and maybe the board did not share his enthusiasm for a Stobart / Flybe merger?

[Tagron]

Meanwhile back in the real world the third E195 for Stobart Air comes on line on May 25, EZY upgauge one based A319 to A320 on May 31, Loganair commence CAX services on June 4, and on July 24 the fourth based EZY aircraft arrives..

[stewyb]

Meanwhile back in the real world the third E195 for Stobart Air comes on line on May 25, EZY upgauge one based A319 to A320 on May 31, Loganair commence CAX services on June 4, and on July 24 the fourth based EZY aircraft arrives..

Have 2 already arrived from BE? cheers

[DC3 Dave]

Tagron

If you believe my views are fantasy, I'll have to take that on the chin given your experience and reputation.

However, “We have said we don’t plan to be a long-term holder of Stobart Air,” is a statement attributed to Warwick Brady, and the public expression of his view may have consequences in my most humble opinion.

[Tagron]

stewyb

The answer to your question is Yes. Two E195s were placed on the Stobart AOC at (approximately) the start of November. They had already been operating the Stobart routes from SEN since the previous summer under the Flybe AOC. This was a wet lease deal and I believe aircraft were rotated to and from SEN from the Flybe main bases so they were probably not dedicated aircraft. The current two (three as of next week) are the aircraft purchased by Stobart's leasing company Propius so they will be permanent..

[Tagron]

DC3 Dave

It was not my intention to call your views fantasy, nor did I use that word. All I was trying to do was to remind people that there are positive developments in the short term, minor maybe but enough to maintain the recent positive momentum, which seems in contrast to the pessimistic outlook expressed in your posts.

As to how much store we should place by Warwick Brady's recently published interview, always assuming he was quoted accurately, all I would say is that I find it most unlikely that Stobart would carry out any precipitous move that would would harm the airport's development. "Not a long term holder" gives plenty of leeway for them carry on expanding the SEN operation if they so wished. This could conceivably even increase its attractiveness to a potential purchaser if the network matures successfully..

Let us not forget that only eighteen months ago they were prepared to sell out to City Jet in return for which City Jet were to base aircraft at SEN. Also that Stobart Air is more about DUB than SEN encompassing as it does the Aer Lingus Regional franchise and the Flybe IoM ACMI contract, about 15 aircraft at DUB as opposed to 5 at SEN.

[Flightrider]

Once their free ride is over easyJet will return to Stansted

ASDF, you are assuming that easyJet's presence at STN is sustainable for this to happen, and I am genuinely not sure that it is. From what I can see, the easyJet operation at STN is sustained only by the need to hold slots for nightstop aircraft at STN which preclude Ryanair and Jet2 being able to grow further. This blocker imposes limits on Ryanair's growth potential at STN and an almost total blocker on the Jet2's growth, both arising from lack of STN slots for additional STN-based aircraft.

I suspect if economic considerations alone were to prevail, easyJet would no longer have a base at STN and might perhaps serve it from AMS, BFS, EDI, GLA etc but would relocate based aircraft to SEN and LTN in equal measure. The fact that the STN base remains today is, I believe (but can't prove, before anyone asks me), testament to its blocking power which would see easyJet's overall marketshare from London eroded by growth of Ryanair and Jet2 on slots that easyJet would release if it moved out. That those slots remain a scarce resource is both a reason why easyJet won't pull what it has today out of STN but also a blocker to shifting based easyJet's own LON-based aircraft en masse from the likes of SEN to STN at the same time.

[tws123]

An interesting interview with SEN's new Aviation Business Development Director - Bernard Lavelle Interview (http://www.anna.aero/2018/05/15/30-second-interview-bernard-lavelle-aviation-business-development-director-london-southend-airport/)

[flight_mode]

Warwick Brady’s comments are being misinterpreted here. Stobart Group’s stated aim is to build value and make strategic asset disposals to pay the dividend. It should come as no surprise that they would want to dispose of the airline – and the airport – one day. When that day will be is the bigger question.

[Barling Magna]

Bernard Lavelle seems to be bursting with ideas. Much of it sounds like wishful thinking, Southend isn't London City after all. But, then again, he's done it before and I'm sure he's right about needing to educate some airlines who still think Southend has a 5,250 foot runway. Good luck to him. He is realistic about the time it will take, 15-20 years.

[cumbrianboy]

Just a point, I believe (unless the 2 EJETS have changed in the last few days) that the 2 currently at SEN are not part of the 3 that have been bought by the group, but are on dry lease from flyBe, the 3 actual aircraft should arrive over the summer, I'd imagine they would end up on the EI register but I am not sure.

[asdf1234]

Warwick Brady’s comments are being misinterpreted here. Stobart Group’s stated aim is to build value and make strategic asset disposals to pay the dividend. It should come as no surprise that they would want to dispose of the airline – and the airport – one day. When that day will be is the bigger question.

I think we all understand the business model. A company exists to return value to shareholders and the sale of the airport will hopefully be the shareholder's biggest return. My concern is that whilst the airport is loss-making it relies upon both the disposal of an ever dwindling pot of assets and the other Stobart divisions supporting the Aviation division.

The asset pot is near exhausted and will last another 24 months, maybe longer, and is to be used to fund the dividend. The combined operating divisions made a loss this year with Aviation sucking any profit out of the other businesses.

Unless the jewel in the crown (LSA) starts to turn a profit very quickly the whole project is in jeopardy. I can't see 2.5m pax by the end of this year. I certainly can't see 5m pax by the end of 2022.

I know everyone is working hard at Stobart to make the dream a reality but something is stopping the airlines from turning up. I have my view on what that something is but I'll open the floor to others to provide their insight.

[Barling Magna]

OK, I'll take the bait. Well, what could be stopping the airlines turning up? One or more of the following (in no particular order) may be involved:

1. Availability of slots at well established and well known London airports with longer runways.
2. Lack of suitable aircraft types in the fleet to operate from SEN.
3. A perceived unsuitability of SEN for A320s and B737s.
4. The dominant presence of Easyjet.
5. Lack of awareness of the advantages of SEN.
6. A risk averse "We're not going to be the first new airline to operate from SEN, let others try and we'll wait and see" attitude.
7. Fear of the impact of Brexit on airline operations
8. Awareness of SEN's failure to rise much above the one million pax mark over the past five years.
9. Bad luck
10. Poor management negotiating skills
11. Lack of rail services at the start and end of the day
12. Inadequate road link to London

No doubt there are many more, and I'm aware that some of the above are contradictory. I'm hopeful that if Air Malta's routes can succeed it may attract others. Mr Lavelle is also a talented chap it seems, so fingers crossed...........

[Plane.Silly]

My money's on 3,7 and 11/12.
The uncertainty of future relations and the unknown of how aircraft will perform will no doubt be the main point
Even if you can get round that, what good is flying from an airport that the passengers themselves can't get to?

[Tagron]

So once again this particular hamster wheel starts turning. How many times has this all been debated over the past few years ? Same old posters, same old stuff. And none of it will make the slightest difference in the real world. But it will certainly bring in the trolls.

I am out of here.

[Planespeaking]

So once again this particular hamster wheel starts turning. How many times has this all been debated over the past few years ? Same old posters, same old stuff. And none of it will make the slightest difference in the real world. But it will certainly bring in the trolls.

I am out of here.
Tagron so true. We all know SEN has some weaknesses, but so do STN and LTN. It's almost as though some of these posters WANT SEN to fail!

[Expressflight]

I know everyone is working hard at Stobart to make the dream a reality but something is stopping the airlines from turning up. I have my view on what that something is but I'll open the floor to others to provide their insight.

I think that's a fair comment worthy of discussion, even though I don't agree with much of what you say in general.

I know the Monarch failure last autumn has been suggested as affecting SEN's ability to attract new operators this year and some here have scoffed at that as being just another excuse. Fair enough if you don't know the facts of the matter but I'm sure that two other operators would be present at SEN this summer, one of them in quite a big way, had Monarch's failure not released a substantial number of slots at two other LON airports. As far as other things are concerned which may be creating difficulties in attracting new operators I would suggest items 3, 7 & 11 from the Barling Magna list. I know for a fact that item 3 was the initial perception of one of the operator's who planned a SEN operation until Monarch's demise and it wasn't until their technical team visited that they appreciated the physical realities that were not apparent in the raw data. Item 7 is an intangible disincentive but I'm sure it will have had the effect of inducing caution to a greater extent than would otherwise currently be the case. Item 11 is something which I don't doubt has been a drag on SEN's attractiveness as it will be seen as making the task of maximising passenger numbers/revenue more difficult than it would otherwise be. Whether Greater Anglia have the desire, or can be persuaded by Stobart, to provide earlier and later trains within the 2019 timetable remains to be seen. I suppose if and when SEN reaches a certain critical mass coach services may also be on offer but we're probably some way off that yet.

I would add an item 13 which is the lack of a grooved runway which should preclude WET WET WET declarations in all but extreme situations. The supposed BBA surface does not seem to live up to its supposed performance in that regard and action on that is overdue in my opinion.

[DC3 Dave]

Even if you can get round that, what good is flying from an airport that the passengers themselves can't get to?

I think that's a little strong. There's a much improved road that does the job for now. All London's airports have traffic issues. And the rail link is perfect for those flying to SEN on aircraft based elsewhere with early morning trains to London and late evening returns. Perhaps best not to mention the weekends! All that's missing is frequent coach services, but that's chicken and egg.

[DC3 Dave]

Ever wish you'd kept quiet?

Buses will replace trains for four months mid week on Greater Anglia between Shenfield and Southend | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16228889.Buses_will_replace_trains_for_four_months_mid_week/?ref=mr&lp=3)

[Pain in the R's]

7. Fear of the impact of Brexit on airline operations

That will be the standard response to justify failure. Brexit hasn't stopped Wizz from adding 1.4 million seats into Luton this year. No London airports are showing any signs of a passenger drop. All the London Airport either want to or have started expansion work despite Brexit.

Four to add to the list
13) No CAT 3 and yes Southend does get fogged out
14) Not 24 hour
15/ History of failed routes
16) No motorway passing the front door

Bad news about the rail closures right in the middle of the summer season.

[Expressflight]

Ever wish you'd kept quiet?

Buses will replace trains for four months mid week on Greater Anglia between Shenfield and Southend Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16228889.Buses_will_replace_trains_for_four_months_mid_week/?ref=mr&lp=3)
A good Echo headline as ever. It's the last four trains of the evening Monday to Wednesday that are replaced by buses between SEN and Wickford. Ironically the last bus will depart SEN 10 minutes later than the last scheduled train that it replaces, so less chance of missing it!

[LTNman]

So the good news for the airport but not the locals is that for the next 3 months SEN will be the only London Airport that will accept overnight biz jets. The airport should do very well out of this and no doubt Stobart will claim all the credit.

[flight_mode]

3. A perceived unsuitability of SEN for A320s and B737s.
5. Lack of awareness of the advantages of SEN.
I’m sure all European airlines are perfectly aware of SEN, it’s location, connectivity and technical characteristics. I’m really surprised that ExpressFlight said the mystery airline didn’t know until they showed up… that’s not normal.

We use software tool from Sabre, within an hour you can have a route fully modelled considering 100’of internal and external variables; demand, pricing, local connectivity, fleet, crew, slots, gates, freight, route connectivity, costs, perf etc and validate the economics of a route. You can even see how it will affect established routes to nearby airports like LCY. If I type in ZRH - LON I see a forecast for all London airports, including SEN. With our dataset the numbers don’t come close to a valid business case however, they may stack up perfectly for another operator.

One might argue the use of tools like AirVision are detrimental to SEN because it’s instantly dismissed by the software. On the other hand, these tools prove time and time again to be accurate to within a few % so airlines trust them. All ‘flag carriers’ and major LoCo’s use tools like AirVision to find new route opportunities.

[Expressflight]

I’m sure all European airlines are perfectly aware of SEN, it’s location, connectivity and technical characteristics. I’m really surprised that ExpressFlight said the mystery airline didn’t know until they showed up… that’s not normal.

It was the fact that they didn't realise that the paved runway length including starter extension is nearly 2,000 m despite the declared distances being the Code C limiting 1,799 m. They seemed to feel more comfortable with a runway of that declared length being set within a greater length of pavement. Whether they should have been made aware of it earlier is not for me to judge.

[SWBKCB]

I’m sure all European airlines are perfectly aware of SEN, it’s location, connectivity and technical characteristics. I’m really surprised that ExpressFlight said the mystery airline didn’t know until they showed up… that’s not normal.

The interview by Bernard Lavelle doesn't agree - post 1402

[SARF]

So the good news for the airport but not the locals is that for the next 3 months SEN will be the only London Airport that will accept overnight biz jets. The airport should do very well out of this and no doubt Stobart will claim all the credit.
why is that LTNman. .? And don’t worry about the locals. No likes the mob who live up on the marine estate , they are always moaning ...😏

[LTNman]

This is why https://airlinerworld.keypublishing.com/2018/03/night-restrictions-at-luton/

[SEN Observer]

Looks like 4 months rather than 3; the whole of June, July, August and September.

[SARF]

Shame it wasn’t winter.. could have got the log burner going

[DC3 Dave]

I was beginning to think Stobart had given up on their 10 million pax pa ambition. It appears I was right.


Londoners love our airport | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16234556.Londoners_love_our_airport/?ref=mr&lp=8)

[asdf1234]

I was beginning to think Stobart had given up on their 10 million pax pa ambition. It appears I was right.


Londoners love our airport Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16234556.Londoners_love_our_airport/?ref=mr&lp=8)


When Glyn Jones says that "technically" the airport can handle 15m pax per annum he is of course "technically" lying. 15m pax in fully loaded 180 seat aircraft would mean the airport has a landing or take-off every 6 minutes, 24 hours a day for 365 days per annum. Technically impossible for an airport that doesn't have a parallel taxiway or enough stands to accommodate the parked aircraft.

[rowly6339]

Sen to grow biz jet traffic from 1000 to 10000 by 2022, and grow the business into a group of FBO's in Europe.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/interview-stobart-jet-centre-head-is-ready-for-a-ch-447884/

[LTNman]

Gatwick, which is a good benchmark has around 36% of passengers arrive by train. Could the roads around the airport handle 10 million passengers? Luton has a dual carriageway from the motorway and still has major tailbacks. Also as a comparison Luton is using 38 stands for 16 million passengers with no spare stands overnight. How many stands could Southand have if the terminal was increased by a factor 4?

Firstly to grow business aircraft movements at Southend from 1,000 a year to 10,000 by 2022.

Must be their new fireplace that will draw in the aircraft.

[compton3bravo]

Glyn Jones does remind me of that wonderful Everly Brothers song 'Dream, dream, dream all I have to do is dream'. Nothing against Southend I flew on my first commercial flight from there in 1961 Channel Airways DC-3 to Ostend but just trying to be realistic.

[DC3 Dave]

New restaurants and bars heading to airport | Echo (http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/16242871.New_restaurants_and_bars_heading_to_airport/?ref=mr&lp=6)

Food for thought?

[Pain in the R's]

“We are consistently voted best airport in London

Probably because it is the least used but with Stobart looking for say 10,000,000 passengers, as the figures seem to change monthly, being voted the best airport will go out of the window.

[Planespeaking]

Probably because it is the least used but with Stobart looking for say 10,000,000 passengers, as the figures seem to change monthly, being voted the best airport will go out of the window.

SEN in my opinion cannot handle 10m pax per annum. The local infrastructure and local residents could not accept that. However 5m to 7m pax may be possible and would help to return the £160m invested by Stobart into the airport.

Yes it has won various awards in recent years, and it would be nice if some of those posting acknowledged that fact without wishing it's fall from grace.

Remember just a few years ago it was handling less than 40000 pax a year, now it's a million and a quarter and growing rapidly.

I must confess when I look and read about the unfortunate state of LTN trying to cram more and more into less and less, then perhaps SEN being small but perfectly formed is not such a bad thing!

[mikkie4]

Well said....at last someone with some common sence

[SEN Observer]

Is g-fbef sick again? Glasgow operated this morning by a Bulgaria Air E190 (lz-var) and it's gone out again now to, I think, Lyon.

[DC3 Dave]

I think they needed 3 jets today (and from now on).

[SEN Observer]

I knew a third jet was due today but I fully expected it to be a Flybe E195. Very surprised to see a Bulgarian E190 roll in!!

[Expressflight]

A short term fill in until the third Flybe 195, suggested as being G-FBEN, becomes available I think.

[tws123]

Any reason why all the Loganair Carlisle flights are showing as sold out including BHD and DUB? Surely not dropped before starting?

[fatmed]

What dates are you looking at. They are showing as sold out until 4th June which is when the route starts and then available after that

[DC3 Dave]

What dates are you looking at. They are showing as sold out until 4th June which is when the route starts and then available after that

No, all SEN-CAX are sold out for June. CAX-SEN all £146.50. Concerning, hope it's just a glitch.

[Andy_S]

Well, it's all kicking off at Stobart Group. Tinkler is trying to bring down the Chairman, while other directors have threatened to quit if the Chairman is forced out.

Score settling? Tinkler trying to make a comeback?

[Planespeaking]

Well, it's all kicking off at Stobart Group. Tinkler is trying to bring down the Chairman, while other directors have threatened to quit if the Chairman is forced out.

Score settling? Tinkler trying to make a comeback?
Well that's what a northern truck stop does for you!!

[asdf1234]

Annual General Meeting and possible Board changes

The Company announces that it will shortly be issuing to shareholders the documents in relation to its Annual General Meeting.

The notice convening the AGM reports that the Board has been advised by Andrew Tinkler, Executive Director, that he will be voting at the AGM against the re-election of Iain Ferguson, as a Director and Chairman of the Company.

All of the other Directors offering themselves for election or re-election at the AGM ("Ongoing Board") confirm that they have full confidence in Iain Ferguson, both as a Director and as Chairman, and will therefore be recommending to shareholders that they vote in favour of Mr Ferguson's re-election. Furthermore, Andrew Wood, Non-Executive Director and Senior Independent Director, and John Coombs, Non-Executive Director, have advised the Board that they would resign from the Board in the event that Mr Ferguson is not re-elected. As announced in the 2018 Preliminary Statement of Results, John Garbutt, the other Non-Executive Director, had decided to step down at the AGM and he has not participated in the Board's recent deliberations on this matter.

The Board has received written confirmation from the largest shareholder in the Company, Invesco Asset Management Limited acting as agent for and on behalf of its discretionary managed clients, with 24.8% of the voting rights, that it is supportive of the re-election of the Non-Executive members of the Board, including the Chairman.

The Board has also received written confirmations from Mr Tinkler, who holds 7.7% of the voting rights, and two other shareholders, who together own 25.5% of the voting capital, that they are not supportive of the re-election of Mr Ferguson and will vote against his re-election at the AGM.

As outlined in the full year results announcement, the Board has established a clear plan to deliver value to all shareholders, principally through its two main operating divisions, Aviation and Energy. The Ongoing Board is confident in the ability of the management team, led by CEO Warwick Brady, to execute the plan and strongly believes shareholder value can best be obtained through stability at both Board and management levels.

[Bee Rexit]

"airlines-airports-routes" This thread is or should be about Southend Airport. I think you need this one if you wish to discuss board room shenanigans of the parent company.
https://uk.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread.php3?id=22859404

[DC3 Dave]

"airlines-airports-routes" This thread is or should be about Southend Airport. I think you need this one if you wish to discuss board room shenanigans of the parent company.
https://uk.advfn.com/cmn/fbb/thread.php3?id=22859404

How can you possibly separate the two?

[Bee Rexit]

Easy, use your internal filter. Is it about airline, airport or routes ? Yes then post, Is it about the parent company, AGM, shareprice performance (just an excuse to be a negative imho) . Skip it and post on a financial website. Sure I am not alone on this.

[Andy_S]

Easy, use your internal filter. Is it about airline, airport or routes ? Yes then post, Is it about the parent company, AGM, shareprice performance (just an excuse to be a negative imho) . Skip it and post on a financial website. Sure I am not alone on this.

I would argue that the future success, or otherwise, of SEN is inextricably linked to the performance of it's parent company. So any corporate shenanigans at Stobart Group is highly relevant to Southend Airport.

[SEN Observer]

My opinion might not count for much, but I strongly believe that the goings on at Stobart are of great importance to SEN and it is quite proper for them to be reported/commented upon here. Don't need any more sites to look at; there are enough already!

[tws123]

Heard a rumour today that FR are still sniffing round SEN, but want them to grove the runway first so they can effectively operate their 737-800s.

[DC3 Dave]

Heard a rumour today that FR are still sniffing round SEN, but want them to grove the runway first so they can effectively operate their 737-800s.

FR now have Airbus aircraft (Laudamotion) in their fleet and MOL has recently spoken of buying 100 Airbus aircraft, and I could see that happening as he could have great fun playing one manufacturer off against the other.

He's also stated that with the number of Boeing 738's in the fleet there's no more economy of scale to be had.

So it could happen in future years. Would it be benefit SEN? Mmmm....

[Planespeaking]

Heard a rumour today that FR are still sniffing round SEN, but want them to grove the runway first so they can effectively operate their 737-800s.
Or even groove the runway. Who knows, and will FR be for good or bad? They have devastated some airports and brought business to others, Easy will be watching this with interest!

[tophat27dt]

Heard a rumour today that FR are still sniffing round SEN, but want them to grove the runway first so they can effectively operate their 737-800s.
I lost money on friendly bets when I didn't believe EZY would operate from SEN all those years ago, so I won't make the same mistake again. I do believe that a profitable operation using B738s is not possible from SEN but maybe RYR do see possibilities with Airbuses. Interesting to see if anything develops, although I heard yesterday's rumour started when they were offered the chance to divert and refuel at SEN whilst STN was having it's problems.

[Expressflight]

Unless any of the RYR B738s have the short runway modifications that Boeing offer I don't believe they could operate from SEN. A grooved runway only helps in wet conditions and the current LDA of 1604m would not alter, that being too little for viable commercial B738 ops. The Laudamotion A320s would offer RYR an opportunity of course and a grooved runway would be greatly beneficial to SEN in general as it is quite frequently declared as WET WET WET with the current runway surface.

[DC3 Dave]

Does anyone know if the current runway surface can be grooved? Or would it need completely resurfacing?

[Expressflight]

Does anyone know if the current runway surface can be grooved? Or would it need completely resurfacing?
I believe the current runway surface could be grooved and I think a surface similar to that at SEN was grooved at JER at the time that it was laid.

[LTNman]

I was always told that Ryanair wants a minimum of 6000ft or 1829m due to derated engines. Saying that they take off from Luton's intersections which can be shorter than SEN runway length but then they do have the option to backtrack if needed.

[rog747]

738 or 737max ops from SEN ain't gonna happen - the a/c is simply not the right fit in a high density 189 seat config - even with the SF option

they don't go into GIB at all - they won't go into SEN

[Expressflight]

738 or 737max ops from SEN ain't gonna happen - the a/c is simply not the right fit in a high density 189 seat config - even with the SF option
they don't go into GIB at all - they won't go into SEN
I agree with you concerning the 'standard' aircraft but with the Short Runway Package the landing weight for any given runway length is increased by around 3,600kg and it is specifically designed to make operations from 5,000ft runways commercially viable. Having said that I shall be surprised to see 738 ops from SEN other than on an occasional basis such as the two Luxair charters to Pau that took place a year or so back.

[flight_mode]

Well, it's all kicking off at Stobart Group. Tinkler is trying to bring down the Chairman, while other directors have threatened to quit if the Chairman is forced out.
Score settling? Tinkler trying to make a comeback?I hope Tinkler doesn’t succeed. Stobart need to be focused on growing their aviation division now not fighting over governance and board seats. If Tinkler gains more influence over the aviation division you can expect all the current growth strategies to be thrown out of the window and replaced by whatever he wants.

[Barling Magna]

My, that woodburner's looking good...........

Southend Airport: A Haven in London?s Blackout | EBACE 2018 content from Aviation Week (http://aviationweek.com/ebace-2018/southend-airport-haven-london-s-blackout)

[DC3 Dave]

Runway open 24/7. Now there's a problem if you want to carry out major runway improvements.

Either by luck or design an opportunity has presented itself to the airport. They won't want to throw it away with night closures.

[pabely]

Runway open 24/7. Now there's a problem if you want to carry out major runway improvements.

Either by luck or design an opportunity has presented itself to the airport. They won't want to throw it away with night closures.

They need to link up with one of the big boy FBOs, going it alone is going to be costly in all the noise, wine & dine a few freelance publishers is not going to do much other than look good for the shareholders short term.

[DC3 Dave]

They need to link up with one of the big boy FBOs, going it alone is going to be costly in all the noise, wine & dine a few freelance publishers is not going to do much other than look good for the shareholders short term.

Many others have said much the same. But ploughing their own furrow seems to be the Stobart way. It's interesting that in ancient Cumbrian dialect 'stobart' is an adjective that translates precisely to stubborn.

[Planespeaking]

Many others before you have said much the same. But ploughing their own furrow seems to be the Stobart way. It's interesting that in ancient Cumbrian dialect 'stobart' is an adjective that translates precisely to stubborn.
And in the Harry Potter films 'Dementors are doom laden sucking the light and energy out of life. some of our regular posters seem to wish that on SEN. In the US posters would be saying ..go for it, try it and if you crash and burn at least you have tried. But not here. Here it' s we can't wait to see you fail. What a lack of aspiration and imagination.

[DC3 Dave]

Exactly how have I caused such offence? Without Stobart doing their own thing, there probably wouldn't be an airport at Southend to talk about. I've lost count of times I've said this.

[SEN Observer]

Exactly how have I caused such offence? Without Stobart doing their own thing, there probably wouldn't be an airport at Southend to talk about. I've lost count of times I've said this.
Couldn't agree more. Without Stobart would there be 28 departures/28 arrivals today? I think not!!

[fjencl]

It’s with sincere regret that we must advise you that the opening of Carlisle Lake District Airport has been delayed by unforeseen circumstances. A major project to launch air services from a new airport relies not only on the airport’s infrastructure being complete but also a full complement of essential operating staff being in place. Regrettably, changing circumstances around the airport’s staffing means that this cannot be completed in time to receive scheduled flights as planned on 4 June, despite every effort made by the airport and the Stobart Group.

Stobart Group will continue to work with all stakeholders, including the Civil Aviation Authority. All parties are confident that the revised 3 September commencement date is both practical and achievable.

In the meantime, we are offering customers booked on flights the following options:
Rebook onto an alternative flight for travel from 03 September. Retrieve your booking via the Manage My Booking functionality on loganair.co.uk and select alternative flights.
A refund back to your payment card. A refund will automatically be processed if we don’t hear from you by the 18th June. Alternatively, email [email protected], and we’ll process the refund within 5-7 working days

Contact Loganair on 0344 800 2855 to discuss alternative options

[SEN Observer]

And how long have they had to set this up...??. Unbelievable!!

[compton3bravo]

Oh dear, not good news, does not instill confidence in the travelling public I am afraid.

[ZOOKER]

SEN/compton............Nothing to do with EGNC/EGMC/Stobart/Loganair. The U.K./Global ATCO shortage has been fast-approaching for about 20 years....And then some.

[SWBKCB]

SEN/compton............Nothing to do with EGNC/EGMC/Stobart/Loganair. The U.K./Global ATCO shortage has been fast-approaching for about 20 years....And then some.

So failing to recruit and train staff in time has nothing to do with the airport operator? Come off it... :=

[ZOOKER]

You can't recruit and train staff if they're simply not out there SW.

It takes about 3 years of study to train as an ATCO, and it's actually harder than doing a science degree.

[SWBKCB]

You can't recruit and train staff if they're simply not out there SW.

It takes about 3 years of study to train as an ATCO, and it's actually harder than doing a science degree.

And Stobart discover this a week before they open their new airport? The law of Supply and Demand came quite early in my Economics O level...

[ZOOKER]

The same could have happened with East Midlands back in the '60s.....But, fortunately it didn't.

I did Economics 'O' Level too....But however great the demand, if the supply just isn't there, the demand cannot be fulfilled. Perhaps we should have invested more training ATCOs, rather than PCSOs, Traffic Wardens, Sports Commentators, Civil Enforcement Officers, Hospital Bed Managers, Career Politicians, Outreach Co-Ordinators, Carbon Solutions Co-Ordinators, Talent Acquisition Managers...etc.

[SWBKCB]

So how did Stobart expect to handle flights?

[ZOOKER]

I don't know SW.........I don't work for them.

Ring them up and ask them tomorrow.

Don't forget that the Swanwick ATC Facility was about 5 years late.

EGLL's third R/W hasn't even been started yet, in spite of Sir Howard Davies' report, completed almost 4 years ago.

Oh, and the A6MARR .......

[LTNman]

You can't recruit and train staff if they're simply not out there SW.

It takes about 3 years of study to train as an ATCO, and it's actually harder than doing a science degree.

So no services for 3 years then while they train an apprentice up. I would have thought it would have been an easy post to fill if they started recruiting early enough as someone would have liked the lifestyle of a nice area to live in and a quiet life but we don’t know if Stobart was prepared to pay an attractive remuneration package.

[ZOOKER]

Not necessarily LTNman. The U.K. has a 'fragmented' ATC system, most ATCOs work for NATS/RAF, but many others are employed by 'Non-State' ANSPs, of which EGNC is one, along with EGNM, EGNX, EGKK, EGBB, EGNT etc.

There is no such thing as "an apprentice" in ATC.

You need to have undergone a CAA medical, basic training course, and then further courses on Aerodrome Control, and Approach Control. That's about 30 weeks in total.

THEN, you can start training at Carlisle....That could be another 20 weeks before you can do it on your own.

Even if you came to Cumbria from Heathrow, you can't just sit down on day 1, plug in and do the job, unsupervised.

[Expressflight]

Runway open 24/7. Now there's a problem if you want to carry out major runway improvements.
Either by luck or design an opportunity has presented itself to the airport. They won't want to throw it away with night closures.
If all they do is groove the runway the closure period will be much less than a full resurfacing/grooving would require. All this is speculation at present so may come to nothing anyway.

[Buster the Bear]

A sudden announcement like this could well mean key staff have left, as the market for ATCOs has never been so good?

[ZOOKER]

Is there any spare staff capacity at EGMC? If so could Stobart Airports compulsory-post people to EGNC, similar to the the way NATS ATCOs are a 'mobile-grade'?.......Or even some form of detatched-duty'?

Assuming EGNC doesn't manage to recruit the necessary staff.

[Planespeaking]

Is there any spare staff capacity at EGMC? If so could Stobart Airports compulsory-post people to EGNC, similar to the the way NATS ATCO are a 'mobile-grade'?.......Or even some form of detatched-duty'?

Assuming EGNC doesn't manage to recruit the necessary staff.
Spare staff at SEN? The airport is growing so fast there is difficulty in recruiting enough ATC controllers for itself.

[DC3 Dave]

I believe SEN has 16 ATCO's. How many needed at CAX? Not 16 - but more than 2 or 3.

[SARF]

Forcing one of your ATC,s to upsticks to the other end of the country at short notice, is a surefire way to lose one of your ATC,s. In a market that would appear to be a tad short of them

[Expressflight]

Forcing one of your ATC,s to upsticks to the other end of the country at short notice, is a surefire way to lose one of your ATC,s. In a market that would appear to be a tad short of them
A SEN controller would not be able to just get into a seat in the CAX tower without a considerable amount of familiarisation and CAA validation. On top of that I very much doubt that SEN could spare any of its own controllers; especially at this time when they can expect more night traffic from LTN's night closure for 3 months.

[HeliAl]

It will be interesting to see how much executive jet movement actually happens.
The only link to the city after 10pm and before 06:30am being by road.
Helicopter movement is banned under current planning arrangements, so that kills the transfers to Battersea and further a field.
I wonder if this has been passed on to the operators.

[DC3 Dave]

It will be interesting to see how much executive jet movement actually happens.
The only link to the city after 10pm and before 06:30am being by road.
Helicopter movement is banned under current planning arrangements, so that kills the transfers to Battersea and further a field.
I wonder if this has been passed on to the operators.

I'm sure you're right about the helicopter restrictions. But for accuracy the first train to London is 0405, the last 2305 (Mon - Fri). Traveling to London by car during the night is a doddle.

[Barling Magna]

Yes, I'm not sure how many biz jet passengers would wish to travel by train...........

[inOban]

Chauffeur driven limousines, more likely.

[Barling Magna]

Chauffeur driven limousines, more likely.

Plenty of them in Southend, mainly stretch limos for girls' nights out though......

Seriously I can't see that there is any problem with the lack of overnight trains as far as biz jet pax are concerned. If SEN can make the biz jet community aware that they are offering 24/7 access then they should attract interest during LTN's night closure. More important will be to see how many continue to use SEN after LTN re-opens.

[Andy_S]

Meanwhile, back in the boardroom, Stobart's co-broker quits, saying their position has become untenable:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/05/30/cenkos-quits-stobarts-broker-untenable-position-boardroom-battle/

And Stobart themselves issue a statement revealing a series of challenges to the group by Andrew Tinkler:

http://www.share.com/investments/shares/8228/stobart-group-share-price#news751318

[LTNman]

Plenty of them in Southend, mainly stretch limos for girls' nights out though......

Seriously I can't see that there is any problem with the lack of overnight trains as far as biz jet pax are concerned. If SEN can make the biz jet community aware that they are offering 24/7 access then they should attract interest during LTN's night closure. More important will be to see how many continue to use SEN after LTN re-opens.

If Southend can’t make a success of biz jets when the choice is them or nothing overnight then they should hang their heads in shame.

[asdf1234]

If Southend can’t make a success of biz jets when the choice is them or nothing overnight then they should hang their heads in shame.


The team at EBACE were excited about the amount of summer night movements they expect to pick up from Stansted and Luton. Keeping that traffic will be the challenge. The boardroom war between Tinkler/Woodford and Stobart/Invesco may derail all the good work at SEN but nothing the troops on the ground can do about that.

[Planespeaking]

If Southend can’t make a success of biz jets when the choice is them or nothing overnight then they should hang their heads in shame.

I'm sorry where did that comment come from? Who has said SEN cannot deal with additional bizjet movements. Sometimes it seems because other airports are being movement restricted some posters can't wait for SEN to fall flat on it's face.

It would be nice to see some support for SEN to keep bringing in biz traffic to the London area whilst there is a famine of space elsewhere. If SEN fails then who knows the near continent may benefit and some of this traffic may never return.

I know this is England where gloom abounds but a little optimism and good will would be welcome.

[LTNman]

I have no idea what you are saying. Either I am a very bad communicator or you have misread my post.

[22/04]

How do SEN's rates for night private jets compare with LTN's.

[tophat27dt]

With SENs schedule really messed up again today, is this due merely to weather, or are they short of aircraft? The night shift will be busy!

[Falcon666]

Weather ,
Fog at SEN last night caused the diversion of three a/c to LGW that i am aware of.

[Bee Rexit]

Lots of Summer fog at the moment. Can't say I have ever really seen it so foggy at this time of year. Every evening the last 4 days fog has been forming.

[AirportPlanner1]

Problems over at STN all week as well, Monday I was on one of 50 or so flights arriving after midnight which caused chaos for those battling to get out the airport having missed the last trains and buses. Many cancellations over the last couple of nights too.

Our own weather not helped by restrictions across Europe.

[tophat27dt]

Problems over at STN all week as well, Monday I was on one of 50 or so flights arriving after midnight which caused chaos for those battling to get out the airport having missed the last trains and buses. Many cancellations over the last couple of nights too.

Our own weather not helped by restrictions across Europe.
Thanks for the info guys. Heavy showers here in Luxembourg