Southend-2

[asdf1234]

Are you sure you're not seeing Titan 737s operating the cargo flights from SEN under the ASL contract? I just puzzled how you would seem them positioning between STN and SEN when you live in East London.
Someone will need to check a flight tracking site but over the summer months I have a recollection that the Titan freighter repositioned regularly to/from STN. Maybe it was for base maintenance?

[SWBKCB]

Someone will need to check a flight tracking site but over the summer months I have a recollection that the Titan freighter repositioned regularly to/from STN. Maybe it was for base maintenance?

From FR24:

POWP 01/06-25/06;
POWS 25/06-03/07
POWP 03/07-08/07
POWS 08/07-15/07
POWP 15/07-06/08
POWS 06/08-13/08
POWP 13/08-24/08
POWS 24/08-25/08
POWP 25/08-31/08
POWS 31/08-22/09
POWP 22/09-01/10
POWS 01/10-

[AirportPlanner1]

Are you sure you're not seeing Titan 737s operating the cargo flights from SEN under the ASL contract? I just puzzled how you would seem them positioning between STN and SEN when you live in East London.

I am currently residing elsewhere, somewhere that reasonably low-flying Titans (and easyjets, and the odd Jota) are noticeable.

[LTNman]

I am currently residing elsewhere, somewhere that reasonably low-flying Titans (and easyjets, and the odd Jota) are noticeable.

HM Prison Chelmsford?

[Lord Gumboil Jnr.]

LTNman, you gave me a jolly good Guffaw with your response.

[LTNman]

I see former Easyjet cabin crew are not happy that Easyjet intend to open two seasonal bases in Spain and Portugal next summer after closing Southend. https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/18789268.easy-jet-cabin-crews-disgust-airline-pulls-southend/

Meanwhile. https://www.essex-tv.co.uk/london-southend-airport-to-mark-armistice-day-with-poppy-display/

[AirportPlanner1]

As expected and inevitable following Ryanair’s announcement on reductions SEN has lost a few more flights though it could have been worse. Vilnius is down to Saturday only. Alicante and Malaga down to 3x weekly (was 4-5 I think). Dublin is still on sale from November but I don’t expect that to operate. Should Dublin happen it will be 16 flights per week, otherwise 12. Nothing on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. As a comparison the Bournemouth base has been reduced to 9 weekly and four routes which were to operate over winter now won’t.

[southside bobby]

Prospects have sunk somewhat lower now in comparing SEN with BOH unfortunately.

[AirportPlanner1]

Prospects have sunk somewhat lower now in comparing SEN with BOH unfortunately.

Not really because it’s a comparably sized base with a similar number and range of routes for the individual airline concerned. Should I have compared it to Stansted? Bergamo?

[LTNman]

The truth is that to reduce cash burn the terminal needs to shut down until the Spring.

[davidjohnson6]

How much cash can be saved by the terminal closing either a day at a time, or for a 3 month block period ? I agree that opening the terminal for just a single flight per day is not optimal, but staff presumably need to be paid throughout the winter if the airport wants (at least some of) them to remain available for work in the spring. I think a completely cold restart in spring with a need to recruit staff is perhaps overkill

[LTNman]

Why then close the terminal when there are no flights on some days? Worrying times for anyone working at SEN but I would expect it is under consideration.

I can remember Blackpool Airport. Plenty of staff and no passengers when I used to call in. The result was the demolition of their modern terminal.

[Expressflight]

Frankly I cannot see the logic of closing the terminal completely for up to 6 months in the hope that things may have improved by then. The cost of keeping it open for 4 days per week, as is now the situation, is manageable when balanced against the total loss of revenue from Ryanair and having to start operations from scratch some time in 2021 if the terminal was completely closed now. No doubt some of the employees that have been retained have been re-deployed from time to time to other of the airport's operational activities which continue to produce revenue.

To totally throw in the towel would hardly reinforce to current airline customers the stated attitude that SEN expects to be able to revive its fortunes as the industry itself recovers.

[SWBKCB]

The result was the demolition of their modern terminal.

Don't you mean the tent was returned to the circus?

[LTNman]

will Ryanair pull its base at Southend (https://www.echo-news.co.uk/newspaper-subscribe/sport/blues/)?


https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/18798436.uncertainty-southend-airport-ryanair-cut-flights-cuts-announced/

[WHBM]

I was regular PPL through Southend in the early 2000s when they had no scheduled flights at all, for years. The terminal was always open and staffed, which surprised me but there it was. There were always people in the cafe when it was open.

[southside bobby]

Jota Aviation opening an operational base at Biggin.

[LTNman]

Note the comment “Currently based“ rather than “based”

https://flyjota.com/2020/10/jota-aviation-lands-at-biggin-hill-airport/


Currently based at London Southend Airport, Jota Aviation specialises in passenger and cargo services, including charter flights for the sports, corporate, music and film industries.

Andy Green, CEO, Jota Aviation says: “With its proximity to the Capital, London Biggin Hill is the ideal location from which to continue the growth in our operation. This is a very positive move for us, and we look forward to offering all our customers the quick reaction dispatches we are known for. I am excited to soon be providing outbound and inbound flights from our new base.”

[SKOJB]

Jota Aviation opening an operational base at Biggin.

Seems a base closure at SEN, last one turn the lights out!

[LTNman]

Seems a base closure at SEN, last one turn the lights out!

Yet Southend is 24/7. Would they really move to an airport with limited hours?

[Expressflight]

Yet Southend is 24/7. Would they really move to an airport with limited hours?

I believe Jota were told that they would be allocated no night slots when ASL moved in so it wasn't H24 as far as they were concerned. Things changed in that regard after the SEN policy was changed to limit ASL night movements but Jota maybe had had enough by then.

It looks as if they may leave a couple of dormant 146s at SEN but it's a base closure in most senses of the word. Stobart seem to be experts at losing business.

[Hawthorne]

It looks as if they may leave a couple of dormant 146s at SEN but it's a base closure in most senses of the word. Stobart seem to be experts at losing business.

100%! They’re very out of touch, with a base at Biggin Hill which is considerably closer to central London why would they need a base in SEN too? Losing so many flights and partners during this time will make it hard for them to win new partners in the future, why would an airline want to go into SEN when there’s space in other airports and people who really want to travel won’t think twice about going to STN. The less airlines and flights flying out of SEN means less facilities available to passengers too and who wants to fly from an airport with no shops or restaurants?

[SWBKCB]

Don't Jota have engineering at SEN? Also, thought there was a restriction on 'airline' operations out of Biggin? or is the Jota work out of SEN mainly positioning elsewhere?

[LTNman]

Biggin Hill opening hours

06:30-23:00 Monday to Friday
08:00-22:00 Weekends and holidays
ILS at one end only

Less hours and more diversions. Maybe Stobart thought they would never go? Does Jota ever fly passengers from the main terminal at SEN, which is now only open 4 days a week?

[Expressflight]

Don't Jota have engineering at SEN? Also, thought there was a restriction on 'airline' operations out of Biggin? or is the Jota work out of SEN mainly positioning elsewhere?

Nearly all their work involves positioning away from SEN, be it pax or freight. They have operated a few charters from the terminal over the years but not many. They do have their maintenance facility at SEN and I guess that will remain there.

[Planespeaking]

Nearly all their work involves positioning away from SEN, be it pax or freight. They have operated a few charters from the terminal over the years but not many. They do have their maintenance facility at SEN and I guess that will remain there.
I realise this virus is causing untold problems to the aviation/airline industry, however Stobart seem to be rather inept in limiting the damage at SEN. Soon the only thing rolling down it's runway will be tumbleweed!

[DC3 Dave]

Jota have also recently moved their operations centre a few miles away from the airport to Hockley.

I think talk of a return to the tumbleweed days is premature. I think Stobart have a cunning plan. Making room for a new HQ and mega base for Flybe.....:ok:

[Planespeaking]

Jota have also recently moved their operations centre a few miles away from the airport to Hockley.

I think talk of a return to the tumbleweed days is premature. I think Stobart have a cunning plan. Making room for a new HQ and mega base for Flybe.....:ok:
Fingers x'd DC3.

[pabely]

Will their be room after the Chinese owned Thomas Cook operation moves in with cheap Max's ? :}

[HZ123]

With due respect to the airports current business plan I doubt Jota moving is going to impact greatly! If that was plane B then they really are in trouble just like most other airports?

[compton3bravo]

Interesting development. Just one example regarding 24 hr operations. G-JOTR flew back to Manchester late on Saturday evening from Newcastle with the Manchester United team and offials. It then departed for Southend arriving just after 2am on Sunday. This will not be possible if operations move to Biggin, so it would necessitate a night stop with HOTAC etc and added expense which the charterer would have to pay for.

[asdf1234]

Interesting development. Just one example regarding 24 hr operations. G-JOTR flew back to Manchester late on Saturday evening from Newcastle with the Manchester United team and offials. It then departed for Southend arriving just after 2am on Sunday. This will not be possible if operations move to Biggin, so it would necessitate a night stop with HOTAC etc and added expense which the charterer would have to pay for.
I think Andy Green might be playing Robert Walters at Biggin to get a better deal at Southend. Biggin looks unsuitable for Jota ops and Robert might not be alert to this.....

[Buster the Bear]

Any good news for Southend?

[LTNman]

Can’t find the report now but I did read that Southend’s FBO was now operating with 8am to 4pm opening hours and outside those hours it was PPR. I assume PPR means an extra charge if Stobart agrees to keep the inglenook fire roaring into the early evening.

[Barling Magna]

Someone at SEN has woken up to other means of generating income - even if only in tiny amounts!

"London Southend Airport is offering five or more visual touch and go circuits for £5. The offer is applicable to aircraft with MTOW of 1.4T and below. PPR is required via Southend ATC and bookings can only be made a maximum of 24 hours in advance for non-based aircraft. Bookings are limited and will be made on a first come first served basis.5 or more touch and go's must be completed to qualify for the deal. Landing for parking will entail further fees."

[LTNman]

There was a time when SEN seemed to be turning its back on light aircraft.

[southside bobby]

Other means of generating income...

Raised in a public comments section on issues enveloping SEN published locally an interesting line from a resident states that it is their understanding the Council has given the airport tax payers money.
Unconfirmed & unproven as yet of course but perhaps draws the conclusion local posters on here are possibly funding their local airport too.

[LTNman]

Other means of generating income...

Raised in a public comments section on issues enveloping SEN published locally an interesting line from a resident states that it is their understanding the Council has given the airport tax payers money.
Unconfirmed & unproven as yet of course but perhaps draws the conclusion local posters on here are possibly funding their local airport too.

If true it is a bad move. Companies in trouble go to their shareholders not the council taxpayer. Luton Council, who is the airports shareholder, has loaned its airport £60m for this financial year and another £23m promised next year to stave off bankruptcy. Meanwhile it has cut every service possible to save money.

Meanwhile I found this bit of the Notam referring to the Southend FPO opening hours.

Q) EGTT/QFAXX/IV/NBO /A /000/999/5134N00042E
A) EGMC
B) 20/10/03 14:00 C) 20/11/03 17:00
E) THE STOBART JET CENTRE IS OPEN AND ACCEPTING FLIGHTS. THE OPERATIONS OFFICE WILL BE ACCEPTING HANDLING REQUESTS DAILY BETWEEN 0800 AND 1600UTC, FOR ANY HANDLING REQUESTS OUTSIDE OF THESE HOURS PLEASE CONTACT OPS(A)STOBARTJETCENTRE.COM OR CALL +44 (0)1702 538 600 WITHIN THE OPERATING OPENING TIMES FOR PRIOR APPROVAL AND PPR.

[Hawthorne]

I think talk of a return to the tumbleweed days is premature. I think Stobart have a cunning plan. Making room for a new HQ and mega base for Flybe.....:ok:

😂😂😂, Flybe would be starting back up with a much smaller fleet and route map and why would they chose to go into SEN? Pax numbers out of SEN on flybe flights were poor! 20 pax on a flight would be a busy flight for them, the only reason Flybe was operating out of SEN was because Stobart Air operated the flights.

[DC3 Dave]

😂😂😂, Flybe would be starting back up with a much smaller fleet and route map and why would they chose to go into SEN? Pax numbers out of SEN on flybe flights were poor! 20 pax on a flight would be a busy flight for them, the only reason Flybe was operating out of SEN was because Stobart Air operated the flights.

My comments were very much tongue in cheek as were, I assume, yours.

Or would you like to back up your 20 pax on a flight would be busy for them statement? But don’t be selective. Across all routes please and over a reasonable period of time.

[WHBM]

E) THE STOBART JET CENTRE IS OPEN AND ACCEPTING FLIGHTS. THE OPERATIONS OFFICE WILL BE ACCEPTING HANDLING REQUESTS DAILY BETWEEN 0800 AND 1600UTC, FOR ANY HANDLING REQUESTS OUTSIDE OF THESE HOURS PLEASE CONTACT OPS(A)STOBARTJETCENTRE.COM OR CALL +44 (0)1702 538 600 WITHIN THE OPERATING OPENING TIMES FOR PRIOR APPROVAL AND PPR.
The whole purpose of high end execs using a business jet is to get to key meetings, which of course are normally in offices between 0800 and 1600, and thus to use the jet to get to and fro outside these times. Likewise, you pay all that money to go when you are ready, and not to fit in with airline or others timetables. One would have thought a professional jet centre would understand this.

[davidjohnson6]

Have there been a non-trivial number of movements (or requests for movements) handled by Stobart Jet Centre outside these hours in the last 14 days ? Wondering if there is sufficient business to justify opening outside these hours

[SWBKCB]

Can't see anything in the NOTAM that says flights won't be handled? PPR doesn't seem an excessive request.

[WHBM]

Can't see anything in the NOTAM that says flights won't be handled? PPR doesn't seem an excessive request.
With these sorts of flights, you are all booked and ready to go at 1700, boss doesn't turn up, looked like there was a chance to nail that contract here and now so spends a few more hours, best the crew get to know about what's going on is they phone from the car at 2000 with "we'll be there in a few minutes, let's go".

The recent issue with the LOT VIP flight departing a regional Polish airport VFR after airport hours with the Polish president on board, running late, is a typical example.

[SWBKCB]

Yes - and you seem to be assuming that Stobart aren't flexible enough to handle that situation?

[LTNman]

Can't see anything in the NOTAM that says flights won't be handled? PPR doesn't seem an excessive request.

Meanwhile down the road at Stansted Harrods are open 24/7, as is Luton. I assume the demand just isn't there to justify extending the normal operating hours but then with 8 to 4 standard operating hours I can't see that being very attractive. Reminds me of a couple of years ago when Easyjet arrived late back into SEN. Sometimes they got in and sometimes they ended up at Stansted.

[AirportPlanner1]

My comments were very much tongue in cheek as were, I assume, yours.

Or would you like to back up your 20 pax on a flight would be busy for them statement? But don’t be selective. Across all routes please and over a reasonable period of time.

To be fair to the poster loads on some of the original ATR routes were really low and I think that average stats would back that up. Certainly my experience of Antwerp first time round was something like 15, 10 and 8 but it did much better second time. Overall I found numbers to be erratic rather than consistently low, I was a regular traveller to MAN with loads varying from 8 to virtually full although about 25 northbound and 30 southbound seemed about average for my journeys.

[DC3 Dave]

To be fair to the poster loads on some of the original ATR routes were really low and I think that average stats would back that up. Certainly my experience of Antwerp first time round was something like 15, 10 and 8 but it did much better second time. Overall I found numbers to be erratic rather than consistently low, I was a regular traveller to MAN with loads varying from 8 to virtually full although about 25 northbound and 30 southbound seemed about average for my journeys.

Thank you. I am happy to take you on your word of your own experience. I clearly remember you reported on the route during its life. So 25 to 30 would be a good load to MAN ( 3 times a day I recall)

My own experience tells me I never made it to Rennes, because I didn’t want to pay £250 + return when I fancied the trip for purely leisure reasons. And I made it to Groningen on an aircraft that was around 80% full both ways (around 60 pax).

All I would say if anyone wishes to make statements saying that 20 pax would be considered busy across all Flybe branded routes from Southend clearly should take the time to
look at the freely available CAA stats.

[Barling Magna]

Hawthorne only contributes to the Southend thread, and only negatively at that.

[southside bobby]

Row over SEN night flights continues to rumble on...

"Local Tory leaders have slammed SEN night flights,pledging to explore every possible avenue to have them removed"

[DC3 Dave]

Someone at SEN has woken up to other means of generating income - even if only in tiny amounts!

"London Southend Airport is offering five or more visual touch and go circuits for £5. The offer is applicable to aircraft with MTOW of 1.4T and below. PPR is required via Southend ATC and bookings can only be made a maximum of 24 hours in advance for non-based aircraft. Bookings are limited and will be made on a first come first served basis.5 or more touch and go's must be completed to qualify for the deal. Landing for parking will entail further fees."

Do these touch and go circuits count as movements? Or would the offer likely increase the amount of GA activity generally? There is a lot of talk here about night cargo flights but there is another restriction not often mentioned.

There is a limit on the number of freight flights which can operate each year, which is 5,330 or 10% of the total ATMs in a quota year.

Now look at the ATM count for September, a little over 1,800 which would allow for just 6 cargo movements per day, although going over in a particular month would not be a problem if it all worked out over a quota year.

So 10 additional GA movements allows 1 additional cargo.

[asdf1234]

Do these touch and go circuits count as movements? Or would the offer increase the amount of GA activity generally? There is a lot of talk here about night cargo flights but there is another restriction not often mentioned.

There is a limit on the number of freight flights which can operate each year, which is 5,330 or 10% of the total ATMs in a quota year.

Now look at the ATM count for September, a little over 1,800 which would allow for just 6 cargo movements per day, although going over in a particular month would not be a problem if it all worked out over a quota year.

So 10 additional GA movements allows 1 additional cargo.
There is an annual cap on ATMs of just over 53k. The airport cannot exceed that amount. Cargo cannot exceed 10% of the annual cap.

[DC3 Dave]

There is an annual cap on ATMs of just over 53k. The airport cannot exceed that amount. Cargo cannot exceed 10% of the annual cap.

My understanding is that if the annual cap is not reached then cargo is limited to 10% of the actual annual ATMs. Is that not correct?

[southside bobby]

If what appears to be implied here is perhaps correct then it may be hoped local papers &c are not visiting the forum...Oh hang on.:E

[LGS6753]

Surely ATMs are Air Transport Movements. This being the case, GA movements are irrelevant when calculating permitted cargo flights.

[SWBKCB]

Now look at the ATM count for September, a little over 1,800 which would allow for just 6 cargo movements per day, although going over in a particular month would not be a problem if it all worked out over a quota year.

Surely ATMs are Air Transport Movements. This being the case, GA movements are irrelevant when calculating permitted cargo flights.

60 non-GA movements a day in September?

[DC3 Dave]

60 non-GA movements a day in September?

Sorry. My apologies. 1800 movements. 225 ATMs about 90% down on Sept 2019.

So is the max permitted number of cargo flights based on 10% of the total permitted annual ATMs, or 10% of the actual total?

[SWBKCB]

Apologies for wandering off topic, just curious as to why you would have a seperate limit for freight flights?

[Red Four]

Apologies for wandering off topic, just curious as to why you would have a seperate limit for freight flights?
I understand that this was as a sop to the local anti-airport campaigners at the time, who were widely circulating a conspiracy theory (what changes!) that the airport was going to be a massive Stobart Freight hub, because of the Eddie Stobart trucking link then. They even went as far as putting this arrant nonsense in a leaflet delivered door-to-door, in order to stir up more replies to the Council/JAAP.

The new rail station (they said) was just a cover for a Stobart siding to facilitate an unlimited rail/air freight interchange all through the night, so the Councillors had their ears bent and put this restriction in place in the S.106.

Unfortunately, in terms of the SEN Section106 agreement, 'ATMs' meant all movements, however small the movement. This should really be changed to Air Transport Movements in the sense most in aviation understand it (but Councillors never understood aviation!).

[rowly6339]

Just a few things,

the £700m was a valuation of the airport by the company who wanted to buy a 25% share.

Stobart are obsessed with the aviation side of the business and are more than happy to keep spending money on it in the belief that things will get better which is why they had a capital raise and are desperate to sell the only part of the group that actually makes a profit which is Stobart Energy.

talks are still ongoing regarding the sale of the airline and leasing business with the board then putting all their eggs in the sen basket.

expect to see cax sold in the next couple of years too.

[southside bobby]

Appears quite sensible to have been suspicious of Stobart now readily apparent with the controversy in the locale re the Amazon flights.

[DC3 Dave]

Thanks Red Four, that has cleared up the confusion I think. So if in the agreement a small Cessna = an A320 you can maybe see why Stobart are keen to promote their 5 touch and goes for a fiver offer.

[SWBKCB]

I understand that this was as a sop to the local anti-airport campaigners at the time, who were widely circulating a conspiracy theory (what changes!) that the airport was going to be a massive Stobart Freight hub, because of the Eddie Stobart trucking link then. They even went as far as putting this arrant nonsense in a leaflet delivered door-to-door, in order to stir up more replies to the Council/JAAP.

The new rail station (they said) was just a cover for a Stobart siding to facilitate an unlimited rail/air freight interchange all through the night, so the Councillors had their ears bent and put this restriction in place in the S.106.

Unfortunately, in terms of the SEN Section106 agreement, 'ATMs' meant all movements, however small the movement. This should really be changed to Air Transport Movements in the sense most in aviation understand it (but Councillors never understood aviation!).

Good grief - the people of Southend are indeed lucky to have such diligent local representatives to foil such a dastardly plot! :eek:

expect to see cax sold in the next couple of years too.

Who'd want it?

[southside bobby]

...& even more sensible not to trust them if DC3 Dave`s last comment is anything to go by.

CAX... perhaps Stobart betting the farm on the ever receding plans for Freeports in the UK.

[southside bobby]

Appears too the "diligent local representatives" then were working on behalf of their constituents which last I looked is their job after all.

[SWBKCB]

...& even more sensible not to trust them if DC3 Dave`s last comment is anything to go by.

CAX... perhaps Stobart betting the farm on the ever receding plans for Freeports in the UK.

I struggle with some of Stobarts strategies, but anybody who imposes such a cackhanded restriction deserves to have its boundaries fully explored....

[southside bobby]

Not cackhanded at all as has been discussed it is a planning safety provision for the local populous against predatory & desperate companies such as Stobart are evidently proving to be.

[DC3 Dave]

...& even more sensible not to trust them if DC3 Dave`s last comment is anything to go by.

I don’t really see it as a matter of trust. Stobart are fighting for survival and I will not condemn them if they are taking advantage of every possible loophole to keep going.

The likes of MAG will get through this crisis because, although they are bleeding badly, they probably have more than enough left circulating to live to fight another day.

Stobart have lost so much blood over the last year that it will take more than a couple of units of plasma to survive.

But they have pulled off a Lazarus trick before.

[SWBKCB]

Not cackhanded at all as has been discussed it is a planning safety provision for the local populous against predatory & desperate companies such as Stobart are evidently proving to be

The idea of Stobart using SEN as front for a trucking depot and the train station as a freight siding is a bit far fetched. Anybody aware of a rail/air freight interchange operating anywhere?

Chosing to impose a limit on freight flights by linking them to the overal number of flights operated seems to fit the description of 'cackhanded' to me...

[southside bobby]

"Taking advantage of every possible loophole" is pretty much condemned when viewed in individuals & is viewed by society & the media as underhand & is certainly no fit way for a household company to run & be trusted to run a supposed London Airport & is without precedent & frankly shocking.

You may not condemn Stobart but perhaps many of the affected good burghers of Southend may choose to differ.

The reasons for Stobart fighting for survival have been pretty much explored in the forums but with much being the result of their own hubris is no excuse then to plague the residents with more controversial cargo flights for Amazon by sleight of hand as you suggest & support.

[southside bobby]

Interchange!...Freeport anyone?

"Cackhanded" to a few may be peace within their own community to many.

[DC3 Dave]

"Taking advantage of every possible loophole" is pretty much condemned when viewed in individuals & is viewed by society & the media as underhand & is certainly no fit way for a household company to run & be trusted to run a supposed London Airport & is without precedent & frankly shocking.

You may not condemn Stobart but perhaps many of the affected good burghers of Southend may choose to differ.

The reasons for Stobart fighting for survival have been pretty much explored in the forums but with much being the result of their own hubris is no excuse then to plague the residents with more controversial cargo flights for Amazon by sleight of hand as you suggest & support.

When the Wells Avenue residents complain about night flights (and I would never wish to silence them), I think it’s worth remembering that the current agreement saw the number of permitted night flights being reduced from over 900 to 120 per month.

My father gave me a lot of advice. One thing that stuck was, before you buy a property, invest in an ordinance survey map. Look for roads, railways, streams, factory estates, sewerage works, quarries, flightpaths from airports - anything in fact that may have the potential of blighting your life before you buy.

It’s an airport. It has responsibilities. They are defined.

[southside bobby]

Wise words which I fully support re the surroundings check lists of course- ("Gee said the American tourist remarking on Windsor Castle but why did they build it so close to the flightpath?")
One cannot insure against every blight that may arise in the future but down to local & civic functions to protect or mitigate against those that may & in this instance in the pursuit of a disordered business plan.

[LTNman]

When the Wells Avenue residents complain about night flights (and I would never wish to silence them), I think it’s worth remembering that the current agreement saw the number of permitted night flights being reduced from over 900 to 120 per month when that happens night after night

.

120 opportunities to be woken up then. I am sure some folk here get upset being woken up by a car or house alarm in the middle of the night so a little sympathy would be in order when that happens night after night.

I am sure the council did not envisage 737 freighters being used at night. If they did why did they ban passenger flights at night? Also there is a bit of a difference between what traditionally come in at night carrying freight and now so the locals have a valid grievance.

[DC3 Dave]

WHOA! Fake post!

I posted I think it’s worth remembering that the current agreement saw the number of permitted night flights being reduced from over 900 to 120 per month.

LTNman says I posted 120 per month when that happens night after night.

Should be ashamed of yourself.

Those in charge should scroll back read my words then see how they were altered and act.

Posts 4572 and 4574. Check them out for yourselves.

[Buster the Bear]

What do we have, a lovely terminal open for a few hours per week & Ryanair, anything else I have missed?

A few cargo flights will not pay the bills. A few Jota positioners will not pay off the debts.

Gatwick has an abundance of slots available come March.

Not too sure how Stobart exit this?

Maybe a begging letter to Beijing?

[Tagron]

I think that Red Four (post 4559) has put it well. My take on it is only slightly different.

The reason why the councils imposed a limit on the number of freight movements was I believe not about any aviation issue such as noise which was covered in other provisions of the S106.. It was about road traffic. Stobart of course was a major trucking operator and the Councils were concerned about the possibility of unlimited numbers of Stobart heavy trucks being introduced into the somewhat poor local road infrastructure.. The Councils could not directly control the number of trucks but they could do so indirectly by limiting the number of flights, hence the volume of cargo and the consequent trucking requirement. Stobart would have gone along with this because all their efforts were concentrated on developing SEN as a passenger airport. At the same it would have been extremely foolish commercially to give away.the right to operate cargo flights entirely. Why they came up with the formuila that they did makes little sense to me.

I am quite sure that both Stobarts and the Council would have dismissed the protestors predictions of road/rail/airport interchanges as impractical concepts that were not worth considering. In any case these were not part of any Planning Application so could not become the reason for the imposition of any planning conditions.

The problem with the S106 is that like all such agreements it ends up as a compromise and it is not unusual for such a compromise to fail to completely satisfy all parties. I have no doubt that those who drew up the agreement believed that they had reached a satisfactory conclusion. But the hard fact of the matter is that the document is defective in some areas because its authors simply did not know enough about practical aviation, and it shows in the failure of detail. It leads to the sort of debate that goes on endlessly in the make believe world of this thread . Whereas in the real aviation world the airport and airline operators find a way of complying with its requirements and get on with life.

[LTNman]

WHOA! Fake post!

I posted I think it’s worth remembering that the current agreement saw the number of permitted night flights being reduced from over 900 to 120 per month.

LTNman says I posted 120 per month when that happens night after night.

Should be ashamed of yourself.

Those in charge should scroll back read my words then see how they were altered and act.

Posts 4572 and 4574. Check them out for yourselves.

Sorry you have lost me. The agreement is for up to 120 movements a month. I have reread my post and can’t see anything wrong with it. The issue is not with the airport, the problem is with the Council who allowed 737 night flights with cargo but banned 737 night flights with passengers making the airport less viable for airlines like Easyjet. As far as complaining residents are concerned a 737 is a 737 regardless of what is on board.

Unlike most airports Southend is very close to residential areas. I find it bad enough and I live a mile away and parallel to a longer runway. Once on the ground there is then the taxing so it isn’t even a 10 second blast of noise.

[AirportPlanner1]

More bad news - Wizz seem to have given up until mid-December although they’ve also dropped LGW to Bucharest over the same period. In fact on some days even LTN is down to one daily. So it’s going to be even quieter over the next few weeks. Perhaps not a real surprise.

Not sure when this was announced, perhaps at very short notice.

[SKOJB]

More bad news - Wizz seem to have given up until mid-December although they’ve also dropped LGW to Bucharest over the same period. In fact on some days even LTN is down to one daily. So it’s going to be even quieter over the next few weeks. Perhaps not a real surprise.

Not sure when this was announced, perhaps at very short notice.

Unfortunately I doubt we will see them return!

[LTNman]

It is due to Romania introducing a 14 day quarantine on the UK. The UK already had a 14 day quarantine on Romania, which did not put the Romanians off from traveling but their one on us has focused their minds.

Wizz have introduced a new quarantine buster service that started yesterday using an A321 to Liverpool from Moldova, as a way for Romanians to get around the quarantine rules. Their Luton Moldova services are now very popular with the Romanian community as Romanians are classed as being in transit by Moldova.

Moldova is another country on our quarantine list but once again it is not putting anyone off from travelling.

[tws123]

Schedules for Kristiansand and Bergen have been updated. Both routes will operate at 2x weekly each through to October 2021. Bergen still resumes on 5 March 2021; Kristiansand on 2 April 2021.

[rowly6339]

Still makes me laugh when people talk about Stobart group and trucking, the only trucks that Stobart own/operate are the trucks for the Energy side of the group and they are based in tilbury next to the power station that they serve so stobart will not be operating trucks from sen at all.

[davidjohnson6]

Are FlyOne planning on returning to Southend or are they gone ? Their website shows Gatwick as their only UK airport

[tws123]

Must be moving over to LGW then. SEN was showing in the system this morning but with nothing bookable.

[AirportPlanner1]

FlyOne should have been more ambitious and tried their hand at Heathrow - Blue Air seem to be quitting LTN for it at least for this winter and Summer ‘21. Although with Moldova well covered from LTN and STN it perhaps makes geographic sense to try LGW.

Just shows though how brutal Summer ‘21 will be, it’s a minor miracle Wideroe are still planning on coming.

[LTNman]

Airlines now have choices and airports now sit in a pecking order.

[Planespeaking]

Airlines now have choices and airports now sit in a pecking order.
No really.. specialist subject the bleedin' obvious...and I guess SEN is at the bottom in your opinion LTNman!

[davidjohnson6]

Well, there's always Lydd, Shoreham or Oxford if you think Southend is a bit too busy and urban for you...

[LTNman]

No really.. specialist subject the bleedin' obvious...and I guess SEN is at the bottom in your opinion LTNman!

Seems to be your opinion Mr Bad Attitude.

[AirportPlanner1]

Pecking order maybe but SEN had a place pre-90s and can continue to tick along with whatever comes in the next year or two even if that is just Ryanair or Wizz flying a few routes to the Med. No one expected Blue Air and Eastern Airways to be on Heathrow’s roster this year.

I do wonder if SEN will be back down to 0 flights next week with Lockdown 2, or whether we’ll be in the position where we can do nothing here but can jet off for a few days of sun in Spain

[Buster the Bear]

When Stobart, desperate for liquidity during March 2020, tried to sell 25% of Southend, when the valuation of the airport was £700-800m, I wonder what a 25% stake would cost now?

[LTNman]

I do wonder if SEN will be back down to 0 flights next week with Lockdown 2

That is dangerous talk here but I doubt that will happen. People will continue to ignore government advice, which will just prolong the agony.

[Expressflight]

That is dangerous talk here but I doubt that will happen. People will continue to ignore government advice, which will just prolong the agony.
Not dangerous talk at all. Many of us are realists as well as being SEN supporters and the reality is that SEN will find things very difficult over the next year or two at least. If most holidays destinations are opened up sometime in 2021 there will be a strong demand within SEN's natural catchment and I don't see why RYR shouldn't choose to capture that demand by continuing its presence at SEN. Beyond that there may not be too much airline activity in evidence in my view.

[SWBKCB]

Agreed - the other big factor for the London market is what happens with slots at LHR/LGW next summer

[AirportPlanner1]

LHR is the one to watch. While some might move to LGW such as FlyOne Gatwick stand to lose far more than LTN/SEN/STN. Westjet, China Airlines, Ukraine, Rwandair all seeking to move in whole or part. There’s nothing more left at Southend really for anyone else to take. It’s hard to see what could move to LGW at the expense of another London airport in great volume.

In the case of Wideroe which would be predominantly inbound I’d suggest LGW wouldn’t be of too much interest although LCY certainly would be appealing.

[pabely]

Not dangerous talk at all. Many of us are realists as well as being SEN supporters and the reality is that SEN will find things very difficult over the next year or two at least. If most holidays destinations are opened up sometime in 2021 there will be a strong demand within SEN's natural catchment and I don't see why RYR shouldn't choose to capture that demand by continuing its presence at SEN. Beyond that there may not be too much airline activity in evidence in my view.
Remember RYR are closing up shop at their home turf bases of OCK & SNN, so any long term commitment to SEN would be doubtful. Nobody knows how this will pan out, I would have thought once things start moving again propery it will be STN focus and if Max's arrive costs will be lower using these, I don't believe the Max can operate from SEN so longer term if the rumoured top up order is made, this will accelerate the removal of 737s.
Maybe why they are keeping EZY sweet with very cheap parking?

[LTNman]

So why does Heathrow now have spare slots while Gatwick slots are still held by the airlines who won’t release them?

[SWBKCB]

It’s hard to see what could move to LGW at the expense of another London airport in great volume.

Wizz have publicly stated their frustration at not being able to get the slots they want at LGW

[LTNman]

Remember RYR are closing up shop at their home turf bases of OCK & SNN, so any long term commitment to SEN would be doubtful. Nobody knows how this will pan out, I would have thought once things start moving again propery it will be STN focus and if Max's arrive costs will be lower using these, I don't believe the Max can operate from SEN so longer term if the rumoured top up order is made, this will accelerate the removal of 737s.
?

Ryanair are suspending services not pulling out. They make threats like they did over Brexit and then they change their mind when no one takes any notice.

[AirportPlanner1]

So why does Heathrow now have spare slots while Gatwick slots are still held by the airlines who won’t release them?

I would suggest it is as simple as LHR operators being happy to lease them out to keep them in use and/or the airport making them available knowing they will get taken up. With Gatwick I doubt there is the demand for them in any great number.

I guess the difference also is that it’s somewhat easier to move on from Heathrow an airline with the odd flight or two per day than it would be with Wizz and a 20+ aircraft base.

[AirportPlanner1]

Ryanair are suspending services not pulling out. They make threats like they did over Brexit and then they change their mind when no one takes any notice.

Also they will be operating into ORK/SNN from elsewhere just as they’ve done in the past all over the place when there’s been a spat and could happen at SEN. A base closure and complete withdrawal are two different things.

[DC3 Dave]

“In preparation for Halloween we remind witches that clearance must be sought prior to flying into airspace around the airport, broom sticks are not eligible for our 5 circuit deal.”

This was posted today by the airport. I think they are wrong to exclude the old hags from the deal considering SEN was Best London Airport 2013-2019 in the Witch awards.

[LTNman]

I don’t think this has been published here. 13,202 passengers used Southend in September down 94%.

[LTNman]

I see that since last week the airport no longer shows a departure or arrival board, which isn’t particularly passenger or greeter friendly. I couldn’t find a flight tracker on the official Ryanair website either.

[SKOJB]

Are Wizz returning as I cannot see any departures in Nov/Dec? thanks

[pabely]

Are Wizz returning as I cannot see any departures in Nov/Dec? thanks
Bucharest 17th Dec onwards is bookable.

[LTNman]

Not dangerous talk at all. Many of us are realists as well as being SEN supporters and the reality is that SEN will find things very difficult over the next year or two at least. If most holidays destinations are opened up sometime in 2021 there will be a strong demand within SEN's natural catchment and I don't see why RYR shouldn't choose to capture that demand by continuing its presence at SEN. Beyond that there may not be too much airline activity in evidence in my view.

Ryanair keep stating they are talking to airports and will come out of this leaner and with lower costs. Just one announcement could max out Southend. One thing Covid has taught us and that is there is no certainty anymore and that everything is up for grabs.

[Expressflight]

One thing Covid has taught us and that is there is no certainty anymore and that everything is up for grabs.

Exactly, so speculation seems rather pointless at the moment. The commercial landscape of Britain will probably have changed radically by the time this crisis is over and airports and airlines will suffer as much as any sector. It's probably safe to say that at some point there will once again be strong demand for leisure air travel within SEN's natural catchment but airlines could decide to concentrate on just one or two LON airports and local convenience could become a thing of the past. I'm sure SEN will try its hardest to keep RYR with commercial incentives and they may, or may not, succeed but only time will tell.

[pabely]

SEN missing out on more EZY park up business, cheaper to send to Eastern Europe for 4 weeks I hear!

[southender]

Not too much space at SEN to park up a lot more easyJets, however 390 movements today with 23 takers for the five circuits for £5. Busiest it’s been for years, but probably not much cash generated, but there again that was not what it’s about.

[AirportPlanner1]

Some further changes and reductions, unsurprisingly. FR ops continue until Mon 16th and then nothing for 2 1/2 weeks. Which actually doesn’t seem so bad. However Bucharest and Dublin now won’t resume until the summer schedule and Bilbao looks like it’s gone altogether. Wizz are still down to resume mid-December.

STN’s terminal is only open from 05:00-17:00 from this Wednesday suggesting another skeleton operation, this is what prompted me to look at SEN. So 17 days without pax ops doesn’t seem so bad all things considered.

[Barling Magna]

Southend Airport sets out coronaviris recovery plan:

https://tinyurl.com/yyg3xu24

[davidjohnson6]

Looks to me like a PR piece expressing vague hopes, rather than any kind of plan or intent...

[southside bobby]

...& possibly personal Wage/Divi & Pension maintenance by The Chief.

[SKOJB]

Sounds to me like a brave exercise to try and bolster the owners share price. What else can they say!

[Expressflight]

ASL seem to have added a Leipzig route to their SEN operation. Starting today the aircraft operates LEJ-SEN-LEJ.

[southender]

Leipzig in the middle of the night - how to win friends and influence people. The locals are not going to be happy!

[AirportPlanner1]

LEJ was said to be starting months back but didn’t materialise although at that time it appeared to start instead at STN. Is this replacing STN or in addition to? The STN route goes out about 11pm

[STN Ramp Rat]

LEJ was said to be starting months back but didn’t materialise although at that time it appeared to start instead at STN. Is this replacing STN or in addition to? The STN route goes out about 11pm

the Stansted route is for DHL not Amazon

[tws123]

Interesting words from Micheal O'Leary earlier: "EasyJet are closing their bases at Stansted and Southend. I think we would look to take up their slots."

A glimmer of positivity from the Ryanair boss? Could be good news for SEN. Although I see FR have already acquired 166 slot pairs from EZY at STN for Summer 2021.

[southside bobby]

Good news for STN then.:E

[davidjohnson6]

Was Southend constrained by runway slots to a meaningful degree in 2019, or was the terminal's passenger processing capacity the limiting factor at peak times ?

[AirportPlanner1]

It’s just as easily a risk for SEN, the aircraft need to come from somewhere to fill those slots and it could mean shifting across from LTN/SEN. Or alternatively they are projecting the £ to fall further against the € making UK operations cheaper. Some time back a lot of the STN operation was ‘off-shored’ to cheaper bases coming in morning and evening.

[davidjohnson6]

If FR think the pound will weaken against the euro over the next 6 months, then FR will likely decrease the number of flights touching the UK. Salaries in the UK would be cheaper but this is a small part of corporate costs - the far bigger impact would be UK based customers seeing fares quoted in pounds becoming more expensive and deciding to fly less

[LTNman]

As far as I am aware Southend doesn’t have slots, it just has limited terminal opening hours so the overnight “slots” are zero

[LTNman]

Ryanair’s MOL
easyJet is closing the bases at Stansted and Southend, so then I think we would certainly look to take up their slots. We would like to expand in Stansted and, to less of an extent, Southend.”


https://simpleflying.com/london-gatwick-battleground/

[Barling Magna]

Ryanair’s MOL


https://simpleflying.com/london-gatwick-battleground/

Yes, that's one more based aircraft if we're lucky then.

[pabely]

What's this about EZYs Airbuses leaving?

[AirportPlanner1]

What's this about EZYs Airbuses leaving?

Not sure but one arrived earlier

[DC3 Dave]

What's this about EZYs Airbuses leaving?

A little more detail would be useful. Every day, they come they go. Sometimes they just have a jolly around the Essex coast before settling down on the apron for a few days.

[pabely]

A little more detail would be useful. Every day, they come they go. Sometimes they just have a jolly around the Essex coast before settling down on the apron for a few days.
The Jollies are the problem I have heard.

[tophat27dt]

The Jollies are the problem I have heard.
I doubt if their sparse local flights have upset anybody. I think the airline may move some aircraft to Europe from UK airports which are charging too much. Southend is cheap and full up now.

[Expressflight]

I believe there are around 20 EZY aircraft parked up at SEN at the moment.

[pabely]

They are swapping them around from ones which are Parked and will be ready for action from 2/12 to those which are Stored and will not be required until 2021, hence will not require air tests so soon no jollies around Essex to keep just Parked, but plans may change, a few gone/going to Eastern Europe to be Stored from LGW & LTN.

[Buster the Bear]

Fair few at Lasham, not all for United.

[mmeteesside]

I see Amazon have (fairly recently?) added a Leipzig rotation to their Southend schedule in the middle of the night so now serve 5 destinations from SEN.

[nt639]

I see Amazon have (fairly recently?) added a Leipzig rotation to their Southend schedule in the middle of the night so now serve 5 destinations from SEN.

already discussed
https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599766-southend-2-a-231.html#post10923079

[LTNman]

Stobart say they are still solvent despite setback.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-15/owner-of-southend-airport-says-its-still-solvent-despite-losing-aer-lingus-contract

[asdf1234]

already discussed
https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599766-southend-2-a-231.html#post10923079

Earlier in the week a flight tracker showed the Leipzig flight departing SEN at 3:30am on the SW runway, overflying Leigh and then turning right to head downwind over Rayleigh and Hockley, Ashington etc... For an airport trying to show consideration to its neighbours I thought this departure to be particularly unhelpful.

[Expressflight]

If it's the departure on 13th November that you're talking about the most surprising thing was why it didn't depart on 05 rather than 23 as the wind was 170/08. As you say, not helpful in keeping the neighbours happy.

[chesna152]

If it's the departure on 13th November that you're talking about the most surprising thing was why it didn't depart on 05 rather than 23 as the wind was 170/08. As you say, not helpful in keeping the neighbours happy.

i think for the ASL aircraft, from what I have heard them say when listening in to Southend Radar, that wind would present an unacceptable tailwind.

[Red Four]

I don't believe it is helpful to try and second guess the operational/safety decisions taken by the pilots on the night - we were not there.

For instance, a reported wind of 170/08 kts could actually be hiding a wind speed of up to 17 kts without it being reported as a gust, or even apparent - the crew would know this and factor it in appropriately. The direction of 170 degrees could also be hiding a significant element of variationin direction (up to 55 degrees) before it was reported as such, which could mean a further chunk of potential tailwind to be assessed rather than just the bare 170 direction might suggest. Any peaks of wind speed (up to 17 kts) would be more likely to have a veered (more westerly) tailwind component, compared to the lulls in speed.
On top of this, there is the forecast 2000ft wind to be taken into account immediately after getting airborne, which would have, on average, have been from a more westerly direction and at at a higher speed than 170/08 kts.

[Expressflight]

I don't believe it is helpful to try and second guess the operational/safety decisions taken by the pilots on the night - we were not there.

For instance, a reported wind of 170/08 kts could actually be hiding a wind speed of up to 17 kts without it being reported as a gust, or even apparent - the crew would know this and factor it in appropriately. The direction of 170 degrees could also be hiding a significant element of variationin direction (up to 55 degrees) before it was reported as such, which could mean a further chunk of potential tailwind to be assessed rather than just the bare 170 direction might suggest. Any peaks of wind speed (up to 17 kts) would be more likely to have a veered (more westerly) tailwind component, compared to the lulls in speed.
On top of this, there is the forecast 2000ft wind to be taken into account immediately after getting airborne, which would have, on average, have been from a more westerly direction and at at a higher speed than 170/08 kts.

All that maybe fair enough but the original poster raised the subject in the context of SEN's efforts to minimise neighbourhood noise. Bearing in mind that 05 is officially the preferred noise abatement runway I think it's reasonable to discuss the prevailing conditions for that particular departure and whether or not might they have permitted a 05 departure. As a one time Ops Director I support the fact that the flight crew should make the decision on which runway to use and I'm sure they are used to preferred runways being suggested/offered in their line of work.

I'm familiar, for example, with the tailwind components that EZY accept on 05 at SEN for second segment climb restriction reasons on 23. I'm sure they take everything into consideration including the METAR wind history which had been very consistent in this case. On three other days last week that departure used 05 with winds of 170/05, 160/07 and 140/02.

[SARF]

Personally I’d always take off into the wind where possible. Safety first .. even if it’s within operational llimits

[Downwind_Left]

Personally I’d always take off into the wind where possible. Safety first .. even if it’s within operational llimits

There are times when it’s safer to take off with a tailwind due to other issues.

Runway 05 at Florence is an extreme example. Huge hill on the climb out. Even with a massive headwind the performance penalties are huge, so you’ll leave half of your passengers behind, and the emergency turn for an engine failure on departure is dramatic to say the least. Far safer to depart on the reciprocal runway with a within limits tailwind, all your passengers, and a nice flat climbout ahead.
RWY05 Florence (https://www.airliners.net/photo/-/-/529992)

So similarly if second segment climb is an issue on 23 at SEN by taking off into wind you may well still be able to lift less payload. Putting you at risk of having to leave passengers or bags behind, or being able to load less fuel... fuel which you may need later in the flight for other reasons. If it was always safety first without any practical or commercial considerations, all runways would be 4000m long with flat terrain surrounding them. But we operate in the real world.

[DC3 Dave]

Elsewhere on pprune, good friend of this thread, AirportPlanner1 has indicated rumours of HOP looking at certain former BE routes. If correct, does anyone believe the Stobart’s established destinations Rennes and Caen could make a comeback in 2021?

[davidjohnson6]

2021 sounds a little early for Caen or Rennes to restart. Perhaps one should consider the idea of a 2022 restart instead ?

[SWBKCB]

If you read the comments in the context of the previous posts, I don't think that's what he was saying. He said HOP! operate international flights from some French regional airports that flyBe used to fly to. Not the same as saying they are looking at former flyBe routes. Sure he'll be along to clarify :ok:

[AirportPlanner1]

I certainly didn’t say they were looking at former BE routes more generally, but that if rumour of ‘Air France’ doing regional from Southampton is true then Hop! is plausible based on what I know and have seen of their network.

As for turning up at SEN, I’m not an expert on regional France but can safely say no chance. If they touch London at all it would be short-term into LHR to slot-sit for Skyteam. I’m afraid for the foreseeable future any London-Rennes is dead. If anyone desperately needs to get there it’s a relatively short ride from Nantes which is fairly well served. And one of the few French destinations I’ve been to recently.

[Expressflight]

I agree that there is very little chance of RNS or CFR being served from LON in the foreseeable future.

HOP will be suffering from the fact that French government aid to AF was given on the proviso that 'unnecessary' domestic routes be dropped so they may in due course look to establish more short haul international routes. When normal times return; perhaps in Autumn 2021(?) no doubt both CFR and RNS will be looking to re-establish their LON links but it must be doubtful that SEN will benefit next time around.

[tws123]

"In the Summer 2021 season, easyJet also plans to restart operations from London Southend." Click here for news article. (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/97399-ryanair-takes-over-bulk-of-easyjets-stansted-slots )

Someone seems to know something we don't?

[AirportPlanner1]

I have speculated before that may be the case, although I would consider Summer ‘22 to be more realistic.

[Expressflight]

Well it's just a rather throwaway line at the end of the article with no detail whatsoever. I would need to see some supporting words from EZY themselves before I would give it credence.

[pamann]

Well it's just a rather throwaway line at the end of the article with no detail whatsoever. I would need to see some supporting words from EZY themselves before I would give it credence.

I’d need to see actual flights taking off full of passengers to believe it personally.

[tophat27dt]

I’d need to see actual flights taking off full of passengers to believe it personally.
The reference to Southend has been deleted early this afternoon.

[LTNman]

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/18876203.southend-londons-next-thriving-airport/

[DC3 Dave]

The reference to Southend has been deleted early this afternoon.

Remember, in the post-Trump world there is no such thing as “Fake News.”

[asdf1234]

If it's the departure on 13th November that you're talking about the most surprising thing was why it didn't depart on 05 rather than 23 as the wind was 170/08. As you say, not helpful in keeping the neighbours happy.
The same again this morning. 23 departure with a right turn and downwind leg overflying just about every populated area in the vicinity.
No reason why they couldn't fly south east after a 23 departure and head for the continent after Lydd. Seems the operator is keen to save a few quid on Jet A1 at the expense of the local population's sleep. Poor form for a 3:30am flight.

[asdf1234]

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/18876203.southend-londons-next-thriving-airport/

I recommend a careful read of the interim results. The best bit is the admission that as the owners are no longer having to pay incentives to airlines to use the airport, the losses were reduced compared to what they would have been if the airport was open. Overall the report is more gloom and doom despite the turd polishing reported in the press.

[southender]

The same again this morning. 23 departure with a right turn and downwind leg overflying just about every populated area in the vicinity.
No reason why they couldn't fly south east after a 23 departure and head for the continent after Lydd. Seems the operator is keen to save a few quid on Jet A1 at the expense of the local population's sleep. Poor form for a 3:30am flight.
Would suggest a left turn after a 23 departure causes more noise disturbance than a right turn as this overflies Leigh and Canvey Island whereas the other option passes Eastwood and Rochford, where the residents are much less vocal in their opposition to night flights.