Qantas Recruitment

[normanton]

Guys lets be honest. This is a job that hasn't come available to external people for 8 years! You would have to be nuts to give other people the questions you were asked, because they are the competition, and they will steal the job away from you.

Good luck to all.

[Falling Leaf]

Guys lets be honest. This is a job that hasn't come available to external people for 8 years! You would have to be nuts to give other people the questions you were asked, because they are the competition, and they will steal the job away from you.

Good luck to all.


My sentiments exactly. There are probably 1,000+ external applicant competing for this job plus all the internals, fighting over 150 positions, and people are so naive that they want the answers spoon feed to them.

It's called a competitive process. Do your own research, read the material supplied and best of luck.

[amateur]

Knowing the questions to the video interview in advance would be extremely advantageous. Anyone who is serious about their Qantas application would be wise to keep the questions to themselves.

[AviatoR21]

I gave you what you need now stop PM'ing me! Ha ha

[Keg]

Sorry Parrot Pilot. I've no idea. That stuff is the sole domain of the HR people. Whilst the pilot assessors have some knowledge of the overall process we don't know specifics outside of the assessment Center days unless it's stuff we've picked up along the grape vine. Eg I didn't know there were 10 video interview questions until I read it on here and had a second hand confirmation via a mate who spoke one of the internal applicants.

There probably is a weighting and I have some thoughts about it but those thoughts are informed by gut feeling and experience rather than specific knowledge or information.

Good luck to all.

[rockarpee]

Just a warning to anyone applying for a Qantas posit. We are having MAJOR uniform issues. (Apparently looks s#%#%#). The white hats just look awful. Just hold off all applications till we have sorted the issue. Would be wonderful to show "crewroom" posts, to the planet regards issue.

[FlyingJ2K]

Just after some clarification on the time line. Im assuming "within the next three days" is Wed Thurs Fri. A few guys have said it is inclusive of today and therefore need to submit everything by Thursday.

Does anyone have a definitive due date for submitting test and interview?

Cheers

[maggot]

Just a warning to anyone applying for a Qantas posit. We are having MAJOR uniform issues. (Apparently looks s#%#%#). The white hats just look awful. Just hold off all applications till we have sorted the issue. Would be wonderful to show "crewroom" posts, to the planet regards issue.

Gees 1st world problems shining through here

[Qanchor]

Geez 1st world problems shining through here

If only I hadn't wagged school the day we did art. If I had've been there I'd know how to draw a tongue in a cheek...

[maggot]

If only I hadn't wagged school the day we did art. If I had've been there I'd know how to draw a tongue in a cheek...

Maybe but i wouldnt put it past some

[rockarpee]

OK better spell it out. Tongue In Cheek:rolleyes:

[maggot]

OK
glad to hear

[ReBjorn]

Just after some clarification on the time line. Im assuming "within the next three days" is Wed Thurs Fri. A few guys have said it is inclusive of today and therefore need to submit everything by Thursday.

Does anyone have a definitive due date for submitting test and interview?

Cheers
I'm going worst case assumption; no one will be looking at them over the weekend so best to have it there for Friday morning

[Density]

Unless of course you don't notice the video interview request in your junk mail until Sat

[DM777]

Are there any practice questions once you click the link to start the assessement?

Is the verbal thing the good old SHL stuff, yes, no, or can't tell?

Good luck everyone

[MACH082]

I'm hearing there's been a lot of pilots not at work today after the Qtalent requests went out.

Good luck folks.

[Average Joe]

Are there any practice questions once you click the link to start the assessement?

Is the verbal thing the good old SHL stuff, yes, no, or can't tell?

Good luck everyone

It's different. Run by TalentQ, owned by Korn Ferry Hay Group. There is a practice test on their website.

The real thing - it's a real son of a b.

[EY_Airbus]

Just curious, has everyone who applied got the invite for psych and video? i.e. are there any out there still waiting on the email for this?

[Swept-Wing]

Does anyone know what Qantas is after regarding the Talent Q results? Accuracy? or just pure amount right/irregardless of amount incorrect?
I.E at the end of the 75sec timer, if unsure of the answer should one guess? or leave it blank?

Thanks.
SW

[normanton]

I received my email around 5pm EDST on Tuesday.

3 days from then would be 5pm Friday, so that's when I'll be having mine done by.

3 days is very stiff, they obviously want a plain snap of everyone with very limited prior study.

[smiling monkey]

Well, they say with these psychometric and personality tests, you can't really prepare for them. You either have "it", or you don't.

[Open Descent]

Well that was fun!!

Video interview went ok, but in golfing terms I barely got past the ladies tee with the numerical reasoning.... #disaster!!

Still, have to maintain a sense of humour about these things

[Keg]

Lol. You were warned! :ok: :E :}

[normanton]

Yep, stuffed that up for sure.

See you in 8 years when they recruit again.

[H-Dog]

I'm led to believe the psychometric tests are designed such that you will walk away thinking you have butchered it so chin up lads. If you get a Q right the next question will be harder and vice versa so if you found it hard it may be because you were getting the questions right.....or the other one.

[ReBjorn]

Yep, stuffed that up for sure.

See you in 8 years when they recruit again.
I look forward to it!
Didn't like the set questions in the interview, afraid to use some examples in case a better fit question arose later

[Leo the Chuppa Chup]

Relax - if YOU found it hard, so did the next guy, and the next guy, and the next guy etc etc


You all probably did as well as each other. Good luck.

[Ozavatar]

Just did the video interview . i like to say it went really well. all behavior based questions to answer.
oz

[SNOGH]

Getting ready to do my Testing......how much study did everyone else do? Still don't feel I've done enough......Eeeek!

[Ozavatar]

HI SNOGH ,

I just did the test and it well much better than i thought that to be. Basically Logical reasoning wasnt that bad after all . Just follow the sequence from Left to right & top to bottom. As for Verbal it wasnt that hard and for numerical it was general mathematics using Grade 8-10 maths. I had one % question , one ratio, couple of currency change , few simple addition and subtraction etc .
Good Luck .

Also my numerical testing froze on me for 20 seconds . I did manage to take a video of it as a proof but then again it reloaded itself . it happened to me on Q8.

Oz

[Swept-Wing]

Just finished my assessments. Anyone have a rope?

[bose1]

Yip swept wing - I have 2.....can you organise the buckets to stand on?

[VHFRT]

Seems plenty of sickies are being taken tomorrow. Could well be a cancelation of the competitors flagship service...

[bose1]

Minger - same format and layout but questions in actual test get harder and harder. Seems the practice ones in the actual are really easy and when you start the questions feels like a freight train has hit you! Goodluck. All I've spoken to feel bad after it, so don't stress

[goodonyamate]

Yip swept wing - I have 2.....can you organise the buckets to stand on?

No bucket, but the new white hats are just as sturdy :}

See ya'll soon!! Relax....youve been invited for the testing for a reason!!:ok:

[Density]

It may have already been answered previously however anyone know if it is likely to be A330 or 787 for new starts? I understand you get what you are given, more from a curiousity stand point.

Secondly any idea when the likely start dates would be? I know there are still some cadets that are yet to start (Feb rings a bell), so no doubt after then?

Cheers

[DirectAnywhere]

When does the first 787 arrive? Therein lies the answer to your question if you are being interviewed for a start date in the next couple of months.

I probably wouldn't ask that question at your interview as it betrays a lack of even the most superficial knowledge of your potential employer's future plans.

You're right. It has been asked many times. Sorry for being grumpy but a quick look at a calendar and a little preparation would eliminate the need for it to have been asked repeatedly.

[Keg]

I hope the testing isn't a shock to anyone- certainly not anyone who's been reading and following this thread! There's been plenty of forewarning. The only advice missing in hindsight was to do the video interview first as the brain would be pretty mushy after the psychometric stuff.

Can anyone tell me though if there was any psych based questioning as part of the psychometric or just the three reasoning tests?

Density, anyone who joins this FY year is likely to go to the A330. I wouldn't expect 787 courses until about June at the earliest. First revenue service isn't until December and it'll only be two jets so they won't need 20 S/Os until then. About a three month course and ten a month so potentially even July. Of course being a new type they may go with smaller courses over a slightly longer time frame so that could move a little but June/ July for the 787 is my guess.

Start dates will be from January I suspect. The problem QF (and the subsidiaries face) is that we will have taken 42+ pilots from them in the period of August- November with another 23ish to go over the coming couple of months. I know that one of the subsidiaries pushed back hard and point blank refused to release some candidates until January and suspect another of them said February.

So I expect the January course to have some former cadet/ LOI holders, some internal applicants (non cadets who can be released from their respective subsidiary) and perhaps a couple of externals. Similarly for February.

From March onwards I suspect we'll see greater numbers in DE courses and whilst internals will likely be told they're getting a gig, their start dates will be determined on their respective sunsidiary being able to release them.

Hope that assists.

[Density]

It sure does thanks again Keg. Yes there was a behavioural based question set too that included 4-5 questions at a time (All up I think there were 25 x 5 questions) and you ranked them from Disagree Strongly to Agree Strongly. If you then answered questions of the same rank e.g.. 2 question with Neutral you were then asked to rank those from highest priority to lowest priority.

[Wiggley]

(All up I think there were 25 x 5 questions)

I got 40x(4-5) questions...

[Keg]

Thanks. Suspected as much but hadn't had it confirmed. :ok: :D

[OM4]

Hi Keg
So it seems to me that internals whilst being told we are being given priority, we are in fact being penalised for being in the group. Jetstar for example is very short of crew and I would imagine they will be holding back as many guys as they can. In doing so we will lose that all important seniority number.
I do understand why the company is doing this but it still doesn't seem fair.

[DM777]

I have always wondered what it would be like to work for Qantas...... looks like I will be wondering for a few more years.

Keg, I had 40 pages of 4 statements of what I agree and disagree with, it was called Dimensional test, could be wrong, my head feels like it has been violated, need a beer to set it straight

Good luck everyone

[VH DSJ]

Looks like Qantas is looking for rocket scientists and brain surgeons to fill that jumpseat. Whatever happened to employing people with good stick and rudder skills? Doesn't seem to happen anymore in the airlines.

[FlyingJ2K]

DM777 You'd be correct! 40 pages of 4 questions.

I have no idea what to feel haha
I get waves of positivity, then trepidation and then uncertainty.

[VHFRT]

I'm a little bit in two minds about it all.

I stumbled through the video interview a little which is frustrating. Behavioral interviews have always been my strong point. I found the video interview without having somebody on the other end of the computer to be a little unsettling.

Psycho "most correct, least correct" stuff was same old.

For the three other assessments I actually feel I did better than expected given the feedback here. I did a similar assessment for my current airline and felt I did far worse (however subsequently got in). Time will tell.

Good luck everyone. Remember, it's just a job. It might be a good one, but the world doesn't end if we don't get it.

[mrdeux]

I wonder how the current QF pilots would fare? Perhaps none of us would have a job.

[FutureFO]

Well... Beer O'Clock anyone?

Video interview was quite good, had prepared well for that almost word for word. Strange not talking to someone and getting a "feel" for the interview. I guess look at the camera & don't read notes mid question!

Psych test, missed 1 or 2 on verbal and numerical which I found a lack of time for some but they were pretty good. The Logical/Diagramatic was 10x harder than any practice one I've done before.

Link pilot told me he stumbled @mrdeux


Who wants a cold one? QF Is buying after that!

[V24]

Any guesses on when we might start to hear back? How long did it take the internals after completing the video interviews before you got the invite for the sim?

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Crikey!

I certainly hope that those answers I had selected but not submitted prior to the timer running out got in! Could certainly have done with another 10 seconds on the numeric.

I do feel that I buggered it up with the numeric. The rest was good for me but for some reason the numbers just didn't come up on the day...

[amateur]

Have many internals heard back about face to face interviews yet?

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

I hope too that I got it in on time. I've been following the recruiting page for 7 years now and checking a few times a week recently... The one week I'm overseas and it gets sent to my junk folder where it sits for 30 hours. Raced home from overseas and got everything ready... finished the last one at 1705 Sydney time. (I'm in Perth)

~FRQ

[normanton]

FRQ I was thinking the exact same thing.

You would assume as long as you have an answer selected, it will automatically take that as your answer when the time expires! (without you needing to hit submit)

[LeiYingLo]

Straight from Talent Q website.....

In this scenario (not clicking submit before time expires) you do not need to worry as your answer will be submitted. If you select an answer so that it appears in the 'Selected answer' box but do not click 'Accept and Continue', the assessment system will submit the answer on your behalf if the time runs out. Therefore by making a selection, this will count as your submitted answer.

Thank God because I did this for at least half a dozen.

[Swept-Wing]

Guys look at the positive side of things, at lease we all now know what it feels like to take a pineapple.

[EY_Airbus]

Maybe I can learn how to be a truck driver....hey you know the name of that truck driving school? Truck Master? I think it is. I might need that :ugh:

[who_cares]

It will be interesting to see how many of the 200 odd internal applicants they end up taking. If they only take a small percentage, that sends a message to everyone looking to get a job at any of those group companies and that is, don't bother if you want to get into mainline. On the other hand though if they take a high percentage, it might stop them bleeding pilots, plus anyone wanting to get into mainline will know it's looked favorably on to be in the group.

[noclue]

It will be interesting to see how many of the 200 odd internal applicants they end up taking. If they only take a small percentage, that sends a message to everyone looking to get a job at any of those group companies and that is, don't bother if you want to get into mainline. On the other hand though if they take a high percentage, it might stop them bleeding pilots, plus anyone wanting to get into mainline will know it's looked favorably on to be in the group.


You must be part of "the group" trying to boost your chances.

Link is 'releasing'
6 a month (= 9 per 6 weeks) to mainline. Cadets are still on courses until April I believe...?
And are apparently about to loose 2 per month (3 per 6 weeks) to Jetstar.

Totals are 12 per 6 weeks leaving qlink alone (internally) but link are only replacing 12 per 6 weeks ATM.
Link is already down after EK and CX recruitment drive.
Therefore they are short of pilots.

Qlink are soon to increase their new hire rate to 16 per 6 weeks (8 per fleet) so net a increase of 4 per 6 weeks provided no one else leaves to EK CX or heaven forbid QF.

I THINK the regular internal plebs going to QF will replace the cadets (9 per 6 weeks) come April-


MY CONCLUSION;
If your after a regional career, now is your time, there is plenty of movement ahead.
QLINK IS NOT, AND NEVER WILL BE, YOUR SHORTCUT INTO MAINLINE.

[Keg]

Guys look at the positive side of things, at lease we all now know what it feels like to take a pineapple.

It'll stand you in good stead for various times during your Qantas career. :ok:

OM4, you'll get a fairer chance now than at any stage in the previous two decades. You can always resign from within the group and roll the dice if you think that will accelerate your placement into QF. :eek:

[OM4]

Yes I suppose you are right Keg. It's certainly a move in the right direction.

[ilikecheese]

Has anyone (internal or external) received an invite to the assessment centre yet? It appears that the sim assessment will be in the 76 if the booking sheet is anything to go by. First assessment just over 2 weeks away now...

[SpyderPig]

Yep.......It's time for that drink!!!! :ugh::ugh::rolleyes::ouch::mad:

[Wiggley]

Did you get an interview date SP?

[wheels_down]

Keep all this dribble to one thread mods.

Its the same stuff on every page. Nobody cares.

[FutureFO]

Keep it in the same thread, good knowledge base.

[Density]

All been quiet lately 😆

[Ida down]

So all Jetstar pilots (and I assume all other group pilots) have just received a link for Expressions of Interest for Mainline jobs. I guess that Qantas must have worked their way through current holders of a Letter of Intent. Seems the recruitment wheels are moving slowly but surely.
Yep. My kids got one. Sure, they would just love being a F/O on the maggot, after a command on the B787. And get a white hat, thrown in with the steak knives. QF must be seriously short of drivers, if they believe JQ Skippers are tempted to go to the bottom of the QF woodpile, just for the honor. In their dreams.

[Iinthesky]

Yep. My kids got one. Sure, they would just love being a F/O on the maggot, after a command on the B787. And get a white hat, thrown in with the steak knives. QF must be seriously short of drivers, if they believe JQ Skippers are tempted to go to the bottom of the QF woodpile, just for the honor. In their dreams.
Or perhaps it is just Qantas using the MOU to make an offer to pilots that may be interested. I would have been more disappointed if they had not made the positions available.

[Keg]

The advertisement of MOU vacancies to JQ pilots to take up a protected seniority number and a 737 F/O slot is a completely separate issue to the EOIs available to ALL group pilots to take up a S/O position on the bottom of the QF mainline seniority list.

Perhaps Ida down should talk more to his kids because either Ida's understanding or his kid's understanding of what is currently on offer is distinctly lacking.

[Jetstarpilot]

Any Q jocks care to post here pay we could expect lookin at the MoU??

I rekon it would be really good for the whole Group culture to do some learnin' from each others.

*pm me if youse prefer:ok:

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Considering your last post Jetstar Pilot, wouldn't have thought you'd be interested.

What are the Jungle Drums saying now?

[fearcampaign]

As Keg said the MOU positions and joining QF as an SO are two separate issues.

I think it's good to see the MOU work both ways.
That was always the intent.

But I agree that if a JQ pilot was already a widebody Captain then it would be a backward step, pay and probably lifestyle wise back to FO on Shorthaul QF.
Still it's an opportunity if someone wants it.

Just shows how well JQ pilots careers have progressed, that the equivalent years of service in JQ grants a widebody command versus a shorthaul FO position in QF.

With contract Captains in Asia, some with commuting getting paid around 25-30k after tax then LWOP could be a better option.

Good to see plenty of options around and getting better.

[engine out]

I guess the only reason to come across on the MOU is if you stay after your three years with that seniority number, you can then climb the Qantas ladder as they have already reached the top of Jetstar (plus longhaul gravy train when they have the seniority, if it still there).

[CaptCloudbuster]

backward step, pay and probably lifestyle wise back to FO on Shorthaul QF.

From someone who's worked in QF LH and now SH for nearly 10 years it always amazes me at the common misconception SH is a backward lifestyle choice. I've not done one night horror, rotating seniority is fantastic, the award combined with a "can do" scheduling team provides flexibility both ways, I've experienced a long term 70 hour Cr average, I get to fly a wonderfully equipped jet to the widest possible variety of destinations regularly.

In fact, I love my lifestyle / job so much I won't be bidding for the 787 even though the financial incentive for div 3 super is significant.

[blumoon]

... People have been invited to next stage as of yesterday. Externals or internals? Any internals heard back?

Boeinginthewest so you have heard external/internals have been called for stage 2??

[High_To_Low]

Heard from a mate today that guys have been contacted for the next stage yesterday - all externals. Have contacted many mates who have applied internally and not a peep (including myself).
Seems a bit strange that no internals have 'met the standard' yet......

[fearcampaign]

Captain cloudbuster.
I'm not saying that SH is worse. In fact I agree with you.
I'd hate to do the Ultra Long haul flying that the 787 will do. Once the fleet is large enough the crews will work very hard, at the wrong times of day and time zones.
Whilst you work hard in SH, you work daylight hours, your home far more often, your not jet lagged, and not nearly as fatigued. Many LH days off are spent recovering from jetlag and night flying.
With big profits forecast for the next few years SH pilots will do nicely from the bonus scheme too.
The only point I'm making is pay wise and stripe wise for JQ widebody CPTs going to FO is not the step up it is for QF pilots.
But your right, who cares about pay if your always away and doing undesirable flying and exhausted. Look at the EK pilots.
Agree with others that this is not an MOU thread.
Good luck to all those that apply to QF wherever they may come from.
At least the focus is now on Qantas so that's a great thing.
The great thing about QF is it has options. SH, medium haul, long haul and ultra long haul with the 787.
Not many airlines offer that. Or a dapper white hat. :)

[SpyderPig]

Does anyone know if those contacted already is it for November or are they still making their way through the applications?

[Icarus2001]

With contract Captains in Asia, some with commuting getting paid around 25-30k after tax then LWOP could be a better option.


25k-30k a month? Can you post a link?

[Unbroken]

Does anyone know if those contacted already is it for November or are they still making their way through the applications?

SP, I've only heard from one person that was contacted yesterday. External applicant and has been given 2nd Nov Interview and 3rd for Sim. No one I know of has been given a "no" yet. So can only assume they'll hold off until successful applicants have been notified.

[morno]

Just do a search Icarus. Plenty of those types of opportunities around.

morno

[Keg]

Icarus, try Longreach Aviation Resources (http://www.longreachaviation.com)

[fearcampaign]

Thanks for the link Keg.
Beijing Capital airlines A330 CPT is $32,838 a month after tax or $395,000 a year after tax.
Month on month off.
China Southern NZ based contracts similar.

[galdian]

fearcampaign

assuming you are looking at figures as per Longreach Aviation for Beijing Capital A330;

Resident max is US$ 24.6K per month;
Commuter month on/month off US$ 15.5K per month

so don't know where your figures are coming from.

Regardless: YES there is a pot of gold out there for the vast minority who can get through the screening and adapt, as required, to the operating environment and hope to hell nothing real or imagined pops up on your medical every 6 months.

Good luck to any who can make it work for them :D:D:D however please don't sell it as a "one page resume and bingo 2 months later you're earning the big $$$$" type scenario.

That's for the agencies to do! :p

Cheers.

[Jetstarpilot]

Much apreciate all the info on the MoU from all my Q peers:ok:

Special shout out to to Keg who I consider a mentor to all of us junior jocks lookin to make good.

Lookin forward to drivin together on the line....

I agree mate that it will certainly be a two way street ...... Time to move on from the 'ol corparate mantra of poloution of cultures

[Jc31]

Invitations for stage two has gone out to the internals. No dates yet confirmed.

[Density]

Movement at the station again....looks like yet another behavioural interview.

[amateur]

Looks like internals are getting the email for the assessment centre stage :)

[OM4]

Have any JQ internals heard yet?

[Density]

No sim assessment?

[High_To_Low]

Negative on the JQ front

[Keg]

Sim comes after successful completion of the assessment Center.

[Keg]

The Qantas Pilot careers website indicates this many.



Our recruitment process will involve a number of stages including;

Initial application
Psychometric Testing
Online / Telephone Interview
Assessment Centre which may include group activities, scenarios and a behavioural based interview.
Medical Assessments
Simulator Assessments

So after the assessment Center comes the medical and the sim. Is that an unreasonable list? I haven't personally looked at other airlines recently but I'd be surprised if QFs was hugely different to Cathay or VOZ?

[OM4]

I wonder if no JQ pilots have heard due to the great shortage of crew? No point interviewing us first as we won't be going across for a while anyway?

[Lookleft]

Didn't you get the email OM4? They are fixing the problem; a problem they created and ignored in the first place.

[Density]

Bit confused as to what medical info to bring as it mentions blood tests and opthamology results etc. Qf has their own medical assessment too hey...dont they trust casa 😀

[amateur]

Density,

From what I can tell medically wise we need to bring:
-A completed PEHA medical form from a DAME.
-Completed Part 5 eye assessment form done by casa approved ophthalmologist (couldn't find form attached to email??)
-Drug and alcohol test results
-Blood test results, but these might be sent to the DAME as part of the PEHA.
- class 1 medical

Don't quote me though. Just my interpretation, so if I've missed anything feel free to correct me :)

[amateur]

Does anyone know if all the medical assessment items need to be done prior to assessment centre? There seems to be a bit of confusion amongst the applicants I've spoken to.

[Koizi]

Density,

From what I can tell medically wise we need to bring:
-A completed PEHA medical form from a DAME.
-Completed Part 5 eye assessment form done by casa approved ophthalmologist (couldn't find form attached to email??)
-Drug and alcohol test results
-Blood test results, but these might be sent to the DAME as part of the PEHA.
- class 1 medical

Don't quote me though. Just my interpretation, so if I've missed anything feel free to correct me

I agree that it is quite confusing. I attempted to ask via email but did not receive a response all week. Not sure how one is to get Drug & Alcohol Testing when they don't list approved providers. Also without a blood test form, what blood results are to be referred?
The PEHA medical pack says please bring all of those items to your medical appointment. As far as I can tell, the assessment day is not the medical appointment. Also no-where in the emails about the assessment day does it indicate these need to be done.

[Density]

Koizi

Yes you are correct. I heard today from a few people that have recently gone through the entire process. They all said disregard the medical stuff for the time being as you first need to do the assessment day. If you get the yes from that they will provide the request forms and list of D&A providers with more information as to what you need to do for the medical. So focus on the assessment day stuff first and foremost and good luck!

[Koizi]

:ok:

Thanks Density.

[Fonz121]

So what medical forms are they referring to here?


What you need to bring for Day One

· 100 Points of ID (Originals and photocopy)

· Minimum requirements documentation (Originals and photocopy)

· Water Competency Form

· Medical Forms

[thefeatheredone]

Anyone know if we are to expect the "thanks, but no thanks" email? or we will just stay on file for a rainy day?

[ilikecheese]

Anyone know if we are to expect the "thanks, but no thanks" email? or we will just stay on file for a rainy day?
Heard a couple have gone out already. No news is good news

[thefeatheredone]

Well that's something I guess. cheers. Good luck all!!

[Dogman]

So its all been very quiet since Video Int and Aptitude Testing submitted......everyone I've spoken too hasn't heard a thing? We're all external applicants and all experienced Jet drivers.
What's everyone else thoughts?

[EY_Airbus]

So its all been very quiet since Video Int and Aptitude Testing submitted......everyone I've spoken too hasn't heard a thing? We're all external applicants and all experienced Jet drivers.
What's everyone else thoughts?

Maybe they just didn't do well in the testing and video...some externals have progressed to the next stage. Just because you are currently flying a jet or work for a QF group airline, this doesn't guarantee you progression to the next stage. The testing / video has been done for a reason, and you are ranked based on the results. I suspect the ones who got progression to the next stage are the guys who scored highest.

1000+ applications for 170 positions over 3 years. Not every applicant is going to have the chance to attempt all stages.

[MACH082]

It's been stated internally that qantas group pilots have priority. Strange that not a single JQ driver has heard anything.

[EY_Airbus]

It's been stated internally that qantas group pilots have priority. Strange that not a single JQ driver has heard anything.

Can you post the official statement so the rest of the world can see?

[High_To_Low]

I second that MACH082. I'm JQ (previously Qlink) and I haven't heard of ANYONE in JQ getting the yes or no. Qlink there's been a couple....
Pretty sad state of affairs really

[thefeatheredone]

I have heard of externals getting a no, and others being invited to next stage. Maybe we all got a ranking from the online interview etc and they are chipping away from both ends?

[Aussie Fo]

Group employees had priority to apply.

Now it's been opened to everyone.

I don't think it was said that they would give up the right to choose who they want, except to some 24 yo idiot in HR but that's another conversation

[EY_Airbus]

There's a big difference between what was rumoured internally, what was officially stated internally, what is internal policy and what is wishful thinking!

[High_To_Low]

Exactly EY....I think it's all very political but at least it's a step in the right direction to allowing internals a 'shot' at moving over...big change in thinking over the past 10 years OR is it a carrot to try and stem the flow of guys leaving to EK / Air NZ / CX etc as they know they're chance of getting into mainline is slim..

[Open Descent]

Group employees had priority to apply.

Now it's been opened to everyone.

I don't think it was said that they would give up the right to choose who they want, except to some 24 yo idiot in HR but that's another conversation
Just out of curiosity, are they still an idiot if they offer you a job?

I feel for the internals being held back, however I think you will find it would have been a condition of internals getting a look in being on the proviso that any one resource group could not be drained more than x %. It's still better than previously being overlooked.

For those that haven't heard anything yet, no news I suppose is good news. Hang in there and best of luck to all of you.

[EY_Airbus]

Common sense should prevail here. To put it in simple terms, QF Group accountants would argue against the prioritisation of mainline recruitment to QF Group internal pilots due to the cost involved of replacing that internal pilot. Also QF mainline HR/FLT OPS would argue the fact that they would be limiting their target audience and potentially lose more suitably qualified applicants for the position.
Lastly, subsidiary airline FLT OPS would argue against prioritising towards internal applicants due to current shortage of crew. So the fairest, easiest and most economic way of mainline recruitment, would be, in my opinion, applications open to everyone, not discriminating because you are internal/external and overall, based on merit, which is what is stated on their website.

[Jc31]

Just out of curiosity, are they still an idiot if they offer you a job?

I feel for the internals being held back, however I think you will find it would have been a condition of internals getting a look in being on the proviso that any one resource group could not be drained more than x %. It's still better than previously being overlooked.

For those that haven't heard anything yet, no news I suppose is good news. Hang in there and best of luck to all of you.

No internals have been held back as of yet. The process haven't every truly started yet so we have no idea how this will all pan out.

[bose1]

External's have just heard back. Interview's on the 15th.

[mra3xx]

A new mega 'group' app is advertised. Does this mean those of us who applied for the first SO slots are now going to be considered for jq/link/network/efa etc?

[SNOGH]

External's have just heard back. Interview's on the 15th.
bose1 - So how many have you heard?

[Density]

Mra

It should have what position in the email. On my email it says SO

[mra3xx]

Thanks Density

Ok, so if my first app was for the SO positions advertised in Oct, im an external - ME based - and am still waiting on pass/fail from the psych testing:ugh::ugh: can i assume that ill be considered for JQ/EFA other group?

[Density]

Not sure on that...I think they make up the rules as they go.

[Going Nowhere]

Mra3xx,

If you click on the link in the add, it'll take you to the careers page and you can select which group entity you want to apply for.

[bose1]

Snogh - so far 4. Also 3 of them have also done the QLink interview/sim recently.

[Tuck Mach]

JQ tried this trick...

Apply for Jetstar in Australia get offered Singapore, New Zealand et al...

Funny that didn't work so well for JQ either.

[Density]

Technical stage?

There is none is there?

[IsDon]

Technical stage?

There is none is there?

I've heard that HR have banned technical questions as they can't understand them.

When is corporate Australia going to wake up and realise the HR empire for what it is? An useless impediment to effective operation.

I notice, on the Qantas corporate tree, the Chief Pilot is 4 rungs below the head of HR. Or for that matter Olivia Wirthless. Both of which are level with the CEOs of International, Domestic and Loyalty.

Kind of gives you some perspective as to who's running recruiting.

[ruprecht]

HR = Business Cancer.

It starts off small, then spreads to all the vital organs. After that, you can't get rid of it without killing the host.

[crosscutter]

Kind of gives you some perspective as to who's running recruiting.

That would be the talent acquisition specialists who advise HR. So yes...flight ops is way down.

[Tuner 2]

Think you might be looking at the wrong tree or misinterpreting the right tree.... QF CP is one rung below the "head of HR" and doesn't report to him.

[Tuck Mach]

Is Don
Quote:
I've heard that HR have banned technical questions as they can't understand them.

When is corporate Australia going to wake up and realise the HR empire for what it is? An useless impediment to effective operation.

I notice, on the Qantas corporate tree, the Chief Pilot is 4 rungs below the head of HR. Or for that matter Olivia Wirthless. Both of which are level with the CEOs of International, Domestic and Loyalty.

Kind of gives you some perspective as to who's running recruiting.

That was exactly my point. Flight operations have been made impotent, in part due to the protagonists CP et al, desperation to be part of the corporate pig's trough. Pilots on the interview panel are there for decoration purposes, anyone else purporting to know here or elsewhere is deluded.The same game is afoot with a 23 page uniform guide, 'complete with stand down provisions'. Struggling for relevance, hijacking any process creates work for the corporate stiff, but not one dollar of revenue....HR irrelevance all over it. Sure operate a jet with 200 souls on board at 10kms above the earth at 900kmh and the most important thing is wearing a jacket at their pre-determined comfort level. WHS would have a field day with this....

[IsDon]

Think you might be looking at the wrong tree or misinterpreting the right tree.... QF CP is one rung below the "head of HR" and doesn't report to him.

Didn't say he reported to HR but he may as well. Everybody else seems to.

[Falling Leaf]

HR....the self licking ice cream.

[IsDon]

HR....the self licking ice cream.

Well said! Poetic actually, and absolutely spot-on.

Inventing rules so they can be policed, running courses because someone has to run them, and gaining bonuses upon reaching KPIs based on how many rules they make and courses they run.

Self-licking ice cream is a great analogy.

[Keg]

I've heard that HR have banned technical questions as they can't understand them.
.

The extent of tech stuff is at the discretion of the pilot assessor. It's quite variable and depends somewhat on the background of the candidate and where they take the interview.

Questions about route structure or aircraft engine types will generally come up in response to something a candidate brings up rather than a direct question.

It's this way because if we asked a standard question or two it'd be common knowledge by the next day.

[keepitrealok]

Could someone who actually knows something about QF recruitment comment on whether the application process is a universal one or still airline specific?

[PammyAnderson]

So apparently just about all Virgin SO's and many FOs (737) have put in for qantas. I wonder if Joyce is thinking I could ground the virgin 777 long haul for many many months if I just employ all of these Boeing endorsed, experienced, SOs that Virgin has. Must be tempting for him.

[Tuck Mach]

Pammy said:
'So apparently just about all Virgin SO's and many FOs (737) have put in for qantas. I wonder if Joyce is thinking I could ground the virgin 777 long haul for many many months if I just employ all of these Boeing endorsed, experienced, SOs that Virgin has. Must be tempting for him'. 9th Nov 2016 08:04

Pammy given the impediments to entry into aviation, despite the attempts to dumb it down, pilots are a strategic asset. American carriers bitten by demographics are realising this....

Like most things Australia is slow on the uptake and recognising pilots as assets and value adding to a company like Qantas would require an unwind of IR strategy dating back many many years...

Strategically focused carriers could cut the legs of from Qantas by opening bases in Australia....

Lucrative commuting contracts do the same thing.

Qantas was an employer of choice, a career path, that is long gone.
Oldmeadow et al has ensured that Qantas is just a job and could never conceive of the value add proposition a long term professional employee generates, their whole approach is it odds with this...:=

[Ken Borough]

Pammy,

Brilliant idea but that would help Virigin to profitability and so would not suit Qantas. :}

[Icarus2001]

I wonder if Joyce is thinking I could ground the virgin 777 long haul for many many months

He is good at grounding.

[ReBjorn]

Have any externals who have completed the first round of testing also applied for the new group positions?

[Loopa12]

Question -

So...... it seems that a load of internals and a load of externals have been invited to the second phase of the process. From what I understand, it also seems that the only people that have had a "thanks but no thanks" reply are those that were invited to do the online assessment, but didn't attempt it (rather than attempted, but did badly).

Therefore, do you think that if you haven't had a reply by now its likely that you've been unsuccessful?

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

ReBjorn,
I completed the first round and applied for the group positions.

[thefeatheredone]

I know some guys who completed online psych, quiz etc and got a no thanks. But I'm in the same boat, can't see by now, how no news is good news.

[OM4]

Hey Boeing,
Any info on why Qlink capt's and JQ guys aren't being contacted?

[Density]

Om4

What do you mean? They are. (At least for qlink)

[Jc31]

Qlink captains have interviews. Can't speak for jq

[OM4]

My mistake I thought they had not heard. I know that no JQ people had heard.

[OM4]

The lack of communication from our management amd the recruiters is disappointing.

[_gazelle_]

Is the 24th of NOV the last day of assessment centres this year or have more dates opened up?

[wheels_down]

The lack of communication from our management amd the recruiters is disappointing
Hardly.
There has been no communication for at least a decade.

[EY_Airbus]

I know some guys who completed online psych, quiz etc and got a no thanks. But I'm in the same boat, can't see by now, how no news is good news.
Sit tight and have patience - obviously you didn't do too badly to be cut after the quiz, but not that great otherwise you would have been invited to go to assessment centre. Can't imagine assessments stopping NOV 24 when they are looking to recruit over the next 3 years - just they need to give first dibs to the guys who did well at the psychometrics. Maybe Keg can shed some light on this?

[Keg]

Got nothing specific. My assessment is the same as yours EY Airbus. I'm on leave now so won't have any new goss until mid December.

[Falling Leaf]

Are we saying that all applicants would have been notified if they had been successful? ..... I'm an external who has heard nothing since completing the on-line tests.

[Keg]

No. We are saying that no news isn't bad news.... but it may not bode well if it stays 'no news' for the medium term.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Hi all,

Do you think that they have watched the video interviews of those invited to the Assessment Centre yet?

[Tuck Mach]

Having made a few posts that get lost...

I posit the following.
There is no-one gracing these pages that is on the inside of this process. It is HR driven drivel and therefore will not represent what pilots understand to be a recruiting process.
Yes I am well aware that many airlines do it, HR struggles for relevance in every corporate.

HR run and control this process, so those applying (and good luck to all) need to understand that it bears little resemblance to what was understood and behaves as a another 'battle for relevance' :=

[IsDon]

There is no-one gracing these pages that is on the inside of this process.


You're wrong on that count.

I do agree what you say about the HR Oxygen thieves though.

[Tuck Mach]

Thanks Don for the reply.

My point remains.
As I understand it pilot recruitment was previously 'managed' from Qantas Building C. The manager's office was very close to the Chief Pilot's office.

Has this changed?
Who actually controls the recruitment process?
I will wager that it is no longer in the new Qantas building C, more likely it has moved to HR in another building. Do pilot recruiters reside in those offices?

Therefore, given the reality espoused above, any pilot input will be minimal from a flight operations perspective and as such the 'talent' is simply presented to flight operations for a given start date.

Would very appreciate being corrected on this process, but suspect that the files and 'control' of this process is nowhere near the pilot body. Corporate hierarchy love it that that way :=

[Keg]

Tuck,

As of a couple of weeks ago* pilot recruitment was being overseen by Head of Base Operations- a pilot.

The HR people currently overseeing the pilot recruitment in mainline are 'Flight Operations' HR. They report to the HOBO. (I just wish we had a 'Manager of Flight Operations because I'd love to one day apply for the job of MoFO!).

The head of 'Flight Ops HR' desk faces the Chief Pilot's. The HR person running pilot recruitment is about 2 meters further away.

Who controls the recruitment process? Interesting question. Certainly it was signed off by Flight Ops (the Chief Pilot) although the process bears distinct similarities to that used for other positions both within Flight Ops and I suspect across the wider group.

Within the decision making process their are pilot assessors on the assessment centre days. A pilot assesses the sim and the Chief Pilot and Head of Training are at least two pilots involved in the exec review prior to appointing a pilot- there have been pilots knocked back at this stage previously.

Whether all that corresponds to the 'control' being with the pilot body I'm not sure. It depends on what you personal weight you put on the word 'control' as there is definitely some nuance to the point. I'm not sure I can accurately answer that question myself and I have a closer relationship with the recruitment process than most.

Either way, it's somewhat irrelevant to those who have to jump through the hoops. It is what it is for the moment.

Hope that assists.

(* I say a couple of weeks ago because much can change in QF in a couple of weeks. There have not been any announcements though).

[engine out]

For all those concerned about not hearing anything back yet. Applying to Qantas is like a flight test, your still in it until they tell you No Thank You. From experience previous it can be months between stages (and that's when recruiting was heavy). With over 1000 applicants it will take them time to process it all.

[garman]

Hi all. I've been invited to the second stage of assessments and I'm a little uncertain about what medical forms I need to bring on the day. It says to bring the water competency form and medical forms. It also says in the email that you are allowed 21 days to complete the medical forms (I only have 13 days between the invite and the assessment day and do not live in a capital city with direct access to approved medical providers), so can I assume that I am not required to bring the medical forms with me to the assessment centre. The email from Qantas detailing this is as clear as mud!

[Density]

Garman

Yes you are correct, it is isn't very clear. The medical and water competency forms are NOT needed until after assessment day. So if you get the nod to continue your progress that's when you start your medical bits and pieces. If you get the no from assessment day you obviously won't do the medical bits and pieces. It isn't very obvious but it actually says bring forms to medical assessment, not the assessment day.

Hope this clears it up
Cheers

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

So of those who attended the assessment centre on 7 Nov (or in fact those who attend after today and then read this) have any been through the simulator? If so which aircraft is used and what sort of profile can be expected?

[keepitrealok]

Keg,

The funniest thing about your post is that you have merely confirmed what Tuck Mach wrote.

There is no-one gracing these pages that is on the inside of this process.

But I don't think you realise it.

:D

[amateur]

Garman,

You have 21 days from receiving the email to complete your medical assessments. Therefore it's ok not to have it all completed if your assessment day is less than 21 days notice.

[Jc31]

Garman,

You have 21 days from receiving the email to complete your medical assessments. Therefore it's ok not to have it all completed if your assessment day is less than 21 days notice.

This is correct. It is 21 days from receiving the email not 21 days after your assessment. Some people have interviews in excess of 21 days notice so are required to have all the medical stuff done before attending the interview. It's a lot of money to spend before even going for the interview.

[Tuck Mach]

Thank you keepitrealok...

Many have been welcomed into the 'new world mantra', after the grounding and lockout, the same management now proclaim it is all different.. Previously loud voices have been silenced by becoming uniform models and such. It takes very little to stroke some egos.

The irony is subtle and lost on most, but it is power play and from my perspective, HR are winning, flight operations a department in a company of departments, all fighting for resources.

HR being what they are see pilots as 'necessary evils'. Just ask them quietly though; pilots have very little input on the performance of the organisation, Battles are won at their desks. Despite a sea of empty desks every weekend as the HR people enjoy their weekends, the reality is airlines generate the revenue they earn, whether those desks are occupied or not..It is and always has been the operational staff that generate revenue. Other than a cost shift to prospective candidates for interviews tests and the like, HR do not generally generate revenue, but you can bet they consume it

Corporate power plays are just that and I think it very important that prospective talent recognise the game they are playing when they apply to the group website..:ok:

[Density]

21 days?

What is this 21 days you speak of? Haven't received any email that I am aware of regarding 21 days. Ill have to check my junk mail again

[Keg]

Keg,

The funniest thing about your post is that you have merely confirmed what Tuck Mach wrote.



But I don't think you realise it.

:D

No. I knew what Tuck was getting at. It depends on a personal and subjective view of the definition of 'inside' I guess.

I'll use the analogy of a house. It's possible to be inside a house without knowing exactly what the layout of all the bedrooms is. You can still have a better idea as to what the layout may be based on everything else you know about the house than someone who is outside and has never been in. You may have a better idea as to the layout of the bedrooms if you've seen a couple whilst other people inside the house have only ever seen the living room.

Either way, every voice here is just part of the decision making process. I guess individuals can make up their minds as to what information appears to be well informed and what information is not and who is 'inside' the house and who isn't. :ok: :cool:

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Keg,

I can guarantee that I know where the top shelf grog is kept in at least 8 out of 10 houses I have been in.

Some things are just worth knowing and some aren't.

[Tuck Mach]

The point remains, the game has changed..It is HR driven and as such potential applicants ought realise that what graces these pages ought be taken with a grain of salt..

[Keg]

Lol. Of course it does. It's PPRUNE after all. :D :ok:

[C441]

I can guarantee that I know where the top shelf grog is kept in at least 8 out of 10 houses I have been in.

….or where the spare few beers may be located in a Dubes hotel room??

Second Officer route knowledge is far more than what needs to be known onboard the jet!!

[maggot]

….or where the spare few beers may be located in a Dubes hotel room??

Second Officer route knowledge is far more than what needs to be known onboard the jet!!

In the suites. So many left behind

[Tuck Mach]

As you said Keg:
"Lol. Of course it does. It's PPRuNe after all. :D http://cdn.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif"

QED

[FutureFO]

Char limit

[B767MAD]

AFAIK - No internals have heard since stage 1 submission. JQ Network.

[Falling Leaf]

Have any externals been invited for Stage 2?

[skysook]

A select few from Virgin, Cathay, Rex and RAAF have interviewed or will interview shortly. Internally, quite a few QantasLink captains and first officers have been invited. Hope that helps! :ok:

[Jet Hopper]

Some answers to a few questions that people have put on here for the SO position.
1. QLink and mainline do share the same interviewing panel.
2. The interview formats are virtually the same. Group exercise, one on one interview, resitting of the psychometric test (half the number of questions though), a situation exercise and a 500+ question behavioural and attitudes questionnaire (which includes a question of whether you like fire and whether you like s*x strangely enough....not sure that's legal but never the less it's in the questionnaire).
3. There are no technical questions (doesn't mean you won't get asked though).
4. Current interviewing is for the A330 SO with a good chance that you will be moved up to FO when the 787 arrives due to the fact that many of the current A330 crew I guess will be needed for the 787. That in turn will leave more SO's required on both aircraft in 2017/18, which can be taken from the current/future applicant pool.
5. Based on point 4 it appears that they are looking for experienced drivers in this round of interviewing that can hit the ground running after the 330 training. Most being interviewed it seems are not GA pilots this year.
Hope that helps anyone.

[Unbroken]

A select few from Virgin, Cathay, Rex and RAAF have interviewed or will interview shortly. Internally, quite a few QantasLink captains and first officers have been invited. Hope that helps! :ok:

So sounds like they're being very select with who they bring in first. Has anyone that's still waiting for a response applied for the new "Qantas Group" job advertisement? Wondering wether it's worthwhile putting one in or just waiting until I hear back about the SO job application.

Also, is the general consensus still "no news is good news"?

[mrdeux]

4. Current interviewing is for the A330 SO with a good chance that you will be moved up to FO when the 787 arrives due to the fact that many of the current A330 crew I guess will be needed for the 787.

Somewhat wishful thinking given the history of the place. I'd expect any FO slot to be on the 737.

[Tuck Mach]

It is sweet irony watching the Qantas process. Flight Operations long ago surrendered any control of process. The uniform policy a HR overreach and the recruitment process another example of how far down Flight Operations is..HR are confronting pilots about their lack of adherence to the uniform policy. If management had any control this would be stopped, but the CP on down is silent. Pilots aren't 'brand ambassadors' as T-Shirt Todd might see it, the brand was safety and always will be. Pilots take that responsibility every time they work, but to HR that is not what is taught in textbooks so the clipboards and interrogations continue!

That distinct lack of foresight has delicious irony. Demographics are killing them.
The 737 contract at Qantas is I am told, a product of 1989. It is not bad when compared to GA but possesses only one advantage on a like for like comparison with reputable airlines. Even JB at Virgin said the difference in pilot total cost is very small, thus the only real advantage left for Qantas; Living in Australia.

Qantas will continue to need crew.

It will be interesting to see the if the Asian carriers decide a great commuting contract may be the thing that fill their pilot seats..:ok:



As the Asian carriers struggle to fill their seats, the Middle Eastern states have trouble with theirs, Qantas has a problem and they know it. Caught short of crew after years of brand and staff bashing, and focusing all their venture capital on Red Q, JQ to the world and other follies, there is simply no fat left as Alan wandered down roads of ego bereft of returns...

Now caught short of crew, pilots finds themselves tired and given the career path of a Qantas pilot in the lost decade, most lack the motivation to even care. Sorry but chummy emails don't cut it.

[dr dre]

As the Asian carriers struggle to fill their seats, the Middle Eastern states have trouble with theirs, Qantas has a problem and they know it.

Then why are experienced drivers at said airlines are returning back to their home countries to fly for legacy carriers, even if it means starting again at the bottom of the seniority list? It was even said earlier in this thread that Cathay has guys applying who are wanting to return back to Oz.

[mrdeux]

HR are confronting pilots about their lack of adherence to the uniform policy. If management had any control this would be stopped, but the CP on down is silent. Pilots aren't 'brand ambassadors' as T-Shirt Todd might see it, the brand was safety and always will be. Pilots take that responsibility every time they work, but to HR that is not what is taught in textbooks so the clipboards and interrogations continue!

Are they really? That must lead to some interesting conversations.

[EY_Airbus]

Then why are experienced drivers at said airlines are returning back to their home countries to fly for legacy carriers, even if it means starting again at the bottom of the seniority list? It was even said earlier in this thread that Cathay has guys applying who are wanting to return back to Oz.

Because no matter how much salary you earn, which seat you sit in, or which aircraft or airline you fly for, nothing beats having a good flying job in Australia.

[ANCDU]

Most realistic post I have seen on this thread for a long time Tuck Mach, you would think that with all the recent announcements and emails that there would be an air of excitement at the place, but most guys just shrug their shoulders, roll their eyes and go back to being undervalued employees. If you think you are going to come to Qantas and feel special and appreciated you are looking to join the wrong place, it's just a bigger version of every other airline here.

And I beg to differ dr dre, friends of mine trying to come back from the sandpit are looking at flying anything back here, the thought of everything grinding to a halt again and being stuck as an SO for years is in fact putting them off the idea of Qantas. Have to disagree with them thoughI can't see recruitment slowing for a couple of years at least, we are just too busy. Even though we aren't really growing in fleet size the fact there has been no recruitment for so long means it will take years to catch up to get establishment numbers correct.

[EY_Airbus]

I know a few Aussie Captains from UAE applied. Many FOs as well.

[Keg]

Even though we aren't really growing in fleet size the fact there has been no recruitment for so long means it will take years to catch up to get establishment numbers correct.

I think I saw some stats that suggested total A330 flying hours are up more than 10% from 12 months ago- hence shortage on those aircraft. 737 hours are also up hence the need for more crew on those aircraft. Basically they've worked out they can work the aeroplanes harder but we didn't and don't have the crew numbers to match. Add to that the VRs that were taken just 18 months ago as well as the retirements from the A330, 737 and A380 since and it's easy to work out why we're short.

And that's before we start loading up for expansion caused by the 787.

[FogBuster]

Qantas will continue to need crew.

As the Asian carriers struggle to fill their seats, the Middle Eastern states have trouble with theirs, Qantas has a problem and they know it. Caught short of crew after years of brand and staff bashing, and focusing all their venture capital on Red Q, JQ to the world and other follies, there is simply no fat left as Alan wandered down roads of ego bereft of returns...

As you say, Qantas is short of crew and in desperate need of good drivers who can get up and running ASAP. First step by HR? Wipe out over a third of the cadets waiting in the wings. Now we've lost a bunch from link that Qantas rejected, I guess up to 15 years of neglect without the job to show for it was enough for them. That's plenty of good talent that is no longer working for the group.

Qantas showed their hand with the recent recruitment round. If they were willing to throw away the cadets already in group companies, it's clear that the internal expressions of interest was just a carrot to try and stem the flow to the Middle East and Asia. I reckon chances are slim to none that any internals with a Y chromosome will get a job in mainline. Hopefully I'm proved wrong on that front, time will tell. Plenty of great captains and FOs internally that deserve the job but I wouldn't blame them for a second if they decide not to wait for Qantas to see the light.

[Falling Leaf]

Has any externals received a 'sorry - bad luck' notification from HR after completing the 1st round of testing?

If not, then I'm assuming as some externals have already been given 2nd round invitations, it is not a case of 'no news is good news' :-(

[blumoon]

I imagine that after the 500-1000+ pilots did stage one and the select first few got the nod for stage 2 in Nov/Dec HR are left with a huge 'bellcurve of results'. For everyone(majority) sitting in the middle of that curve it will now be lucky dip/black magic on who and when someone gets picked for futher testing...

Just a numbers game now, at the mercy of the system... Could be 12mths before someone gets an email.... 🙄🙄

[Keg]

Sadly I know of a couple of externals who have been told 'no'. One of them struck me as an eminently suitable candidate.

[crosscutter]

In any job vacancy the best (according to the company perception) candidate gets the gig. It's not to say others were poor or in fact would not do a better job. That's how the system works. Pilots are not special other than employment tends to flow in rapid waves followed by seemingly endless calmness. This is perhaps why QF apparently still maintains this 'hold file' system. So it's up to the candidate to toot the company's train set in the way the company think is right during the interview process. Do it well and you won't be the 'majority in the bell curve' who quite possibly won't be required. Successful or not an attitude focusing on self improvement and individual development will always be more productive than blaming uncontrollable external factors that are baked in an oven of wishful mistruths.

[EY_Airbus]

Sadly I know of a couple of externals who have been told 'no'. One of them struck me as an eminently suitable candidate.

Just to clarify, was this after completing the psychometric assessment or after submitting the initial application?

[_gazelle_]

Has anyone been given interview dates post November?

[Keg]

EY Airbus, post assessment center.

[amateur]

Anyone have any idea about the sim profile?

[ilikecheese]

Has anyone been given interview dates post November?
I heard this is the last week of assessments for 2016?

[Afterburner1]

For those that have done the sim over the past few weeks/months, how long did it take for HR to get back to you with a yes or no?

Also, did you get a start date at this point?

[Popgun]

Growth on Pacific routes might possibly take a bit of a hit.

I wonder whether this will have any effect on medium to longer term fleet plans and therefore pilot recruitment numbers?

Nocookies | The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/qantasamerican-expansion-plan-ditched/news-story/1a5832e7030a978fab9854932d373ead)

Qantas’s plans to dominate the skies over the Pacific have been left in tatters and its popular routes into San Francisco and Dallas placed under review after the Australian carrier and American Airlines ditched plans to expand their partnership.

The airlines yesterday dumped plans to expand their alliance after the US Department of Transport tentatively blocked the deal and rejected pleas from Qantas and American for an extended deadline to appeal the decision. The DoT said their arguments were “unpersuasive”.

“This is an extremely disappointing sequence of events for Qantas and American Airlines, as well as for customers, and ultimately for trade between the United States and Australia,” Qantas said yesterday as it revealed it would no longer appeal the DoT’s decision.

The airlines, which already codeshare and offer frequent-flyer reciprocity with each other, had hoped to win antitrust immunity from the DoT to deepen and expand the relationship into a revenue-sharing joint venture.

But the DoT blocked the deal because it would reduce competition by allowing Qantas and American to control about 60 per cent of airfares between the US and Australia.

The rejection means Qantas will now review its direct flights into San Francisco and Dallas, which were launched last year in anticipation of the expanded alliance going ahead.

American also launched flights ahead of the expanded partnership — from Los Angeles to Sydney and Los Angeles to Auckland — but it’s understood they will remain in place.

“Both American and Qantas made it quite clear at the time of announcement of the proposed expanded alliance back in June 2015 that a number of services were only made economically possible as a result of the joint business agreement,” said JPMorgan analyst Guy Bunce.

“As a consequence, if this is no longer possible then the following services could be at risk of reduction and/or cessation including: Sydney-San Francisco, American’s Sydney-LA, and maybe even Qantas’s Sydney-Dallas.”

Mr Bunce said the decision to reject the new alliance was likely to be immaterial for Qantas’s earnings in the short term but it could have wider implications for the airline’s international business and its ability to grow its bottom line. Qantas had expected to grow its trans-Pacific traffic (which accounts for 40 per cent of its international revenue) by 9 per cent through the new deal.

“This decision could impact the long-term profitability of Qantas’s most important international market, but we feel the current share price already reflects significant earnings risk,” Mr Bunce said.

With the deal now dead, Qantas and American said they would be “severely limited” in their ability to work together to grow on the trans-Pacific routes. “As a consequence, each airline will need to assess their trans-Pacific networks,” the airlines said.

“Qantas and American Airlines will now separately assess their positions before deciding on next steps. Both carriers are committed to finding ways to work together more closely to deliver benefits to customers that neither could offer alone.” American Airlines said it was “very disappointed” with the DoT’s decision.

PG

[blumoon]

All has gone quiet..??? Any news from those interviewing??

[thefeatheredone]

Email went around today saying merry Christmas, resuming ops normal in the new year.

[V24]

Email today said they're shutting down for Christmas and next contact will be in the new year.

[Fonz121]

Really? Who got that? Guys waiting for a yes or no or people waiting for an assessment day?

[thefeatheredone]

I haven't heard anything either way since completing the online components.

[smiling monkey]

Really? Who got that? Guys waiting for a yes or no or people waiting for an assessment day?

Both. Those who are yet to attend an assessment day as well as those who have. Surprising really. I thought the fat lady had already sung her song.

[amateur]

I did the sim a couple of weeks ago. I didn't get any Christmas email about expecting more info in the new year. I'm guessing that's a no then- Doh!

[josephfeatherweight]

Crikey, it's only the 8th Dec and they're packing up for the year?!?
No wonder you guys wanna work for this mob, sounds like a sweet deal! :p

[maggot]

Crikey, it's only the 8th Dec and they're packing up for the year?!?
No wonder you guys wanna work for this mob, sounds like a sweet deal! :p

Best time of year to fly, when the office types go home

[FogBuster]

I did the sim a couple of weeks ago. I didn't get any Christmas email about expecting more info in the new year. I'm guessing that's a no then- Doh!

Anyone completed the sim in the past 2 weeks received a no..??

I haven't heard anything either way since completing the online components.

I wouldn't stress, HR and Talent Acquisition are nothing if not inconsistent.

That being said, getting through the sim successfully and everything else means nothing as a few guys here at link found out. Seemingly rejected for no discernible reason having excelled in every component. Quite a few have already left for greener pastures instead of waiting for mainline recruitment to sort out their incompetence. Waste of good pilots for both Qlink and mainline.

[donkey767]

I wouldn't stress, HR and Talent Acquisition are nothing if not inconsistent.

That being said, getting through the sim successfully and everything else means nothing as a few guys here at link found out. Seemingly rejected for no discernible reason having excelled in every component. Quite a few have already left for greener pastures instead of waiting for mainline recruitment to sort out their incompetence. Waste of good pilots for both Qlink and mainline.

Yup, you're too right. Qlink did my ref checks and after hearing nothing for the better half of a month, the dreadful 'thanks but no thanks' email came though

[normanton]

FogBuster, a bit bitter are we?

3 posts and nothing but whinging for being cut!

[havick]

Seemingly rejected for no discernible reason having excelled in every component.

How do you know those people didn't have skeletons in the closet?

[Keg]

Does anyone think QF are so capricious as to arbitrarily cull someone who has 'excelled in every component'? Or is it more likely that said candidate didn't excel in every component despite what they may have thought? A helmet fire on the assessment day or in the sim? An issue on the psychometric confirmed during the follow up psych? Maybe presuming that the process was a box ticking exercise?

I don't blame those who didn't make it through seeking other avenues and opportunities. Good luck to them. I hope they succeed and that the QF experience helps them to get through the next application process. For whatever reason, on the day they weren't competitive in the QF process.

[mic310]

You are doing better then me. I only received the same one twice.:cool:

["Littlebird"]

Hi Minger,
Contrary to the beliefs of many, I would say QF have adopted worlds best practice with how they go about these things. What you have done to date I believe is purely a benchmark, what happens next is where it counts. As keg has stated, it's definitely not a box ticking exercise. Also, perception can be biased, and not necessarily in alignment with reality.
I have in the past been involved with recruiting at Lufthansa, and I would say QF would be looking at your profile as a whole, not purely your test scores, as how well you have done in the numerical, verbal, and orientation tests could alone be misleading. I would prefer an applicant who scored poorly at home, and subsequently showed an improvement at the assessment centre, than an applicant who scored high and then performs poorly on the day. Psych profiling, the video interview and your application itself can play a big role.
I would say if you were notified by email of what is next, that you would be part of that and still in the running. All the best!
L.B :ok:

[romeocharlie]

I had to google 'capricious' - probably a solid indicator of how my verbal test went :}

[mrdeux]

I would say QF have adopted worlds best practice

Do people still use that appalling term? Pretty much without exception, it's been attached to stupid ideas that the faceless ones don't want any discussion of.

[Capt Fathom]

It all seems overly complicated now!

You used to turn up for an interview with your logbook, licence and references. If you seemed like a nice guy, could fly a plane and answered a few simple questions, you generally got the job!

[IsDon]

It all seems overly complicated now!

You used to turn up for an interview with your logbook, licence and references. If you seemed like a nice guy, could fly a plane and answered a few simple questions, you generally got the job!

Then the HR empire got hold of it.

Common sense, exit stage left.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Of those who have attended the Assessment Centre did any of you NOT have a current IPC but were under an overseas check and training organisation? (I.e. must it be strictly a CAR 217 organization?)

And yes I have read the document on the website.

[Afterburner1]

A few 'no' letters have been sent out in the last few days from assessment days that were held about a month ago... anybody receive a 'yes' yet?

[Hoofharted]

Whenever I hear "worlds best practice" I know that commonsense has been replaced with anything but.

[yadot]

When I hear that they sent earlier applicants a letter that stated "Dear Flight Attendant, please complete a swimming assessment", makes me wonder what cornflakes packet these clowns received their (if lucky a TAFE degree) from!

All back slaps going around on LinkedIn. Well done Qantas HR/recruitment/"talent acquisition". If you go for the job, note that they are only after yes men and more woman to increase it in a bias method above the industry % of around 5% woman with applicants who show no signs of ever challenging a management decision. That is NOT accepting the most talented employees Qantas! Once was "worlds best practice"! Now world's most politically correct and non challenging practice! What is the best method to de-unionise the place, not to recruit people with objections and thought processing that goes beyond management/HR fear factor control methods. It was only red ties!! I cannot believe some of the talent these clowns have sent elsewhere! Merry Christmas!

[Tuck Mach]

Yadot nailed it,

Airline management is focused on cost, labour a big airline cost, Qantas took a quantum leap in fear escalation in 2011 after a manufactured 'terminal decline' to control cost.

Right before the 'magic pudding turnaround' an overdue (long haul) fleet write down engineered an on paper loss (which incidentally serves as a big tax deduction!) Most unions took the bait and signed up for an 18 month pay freeze, whilst management options quietly awarded in 2012 paid off handsomely.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/dec/09/more-than-a-third-of-big-companies-paid-no-tax-in-2014-15-ato-reports

The real benefit is a fearful, acquiescent workforce, an avoid, even adversarial IR posture (as shown in Ryan air and replicated to a large degree at JQ- where Joyce and many JQ senior personal learned the dark arts of IR) and progressively HR dominated processes that reduce the likelihood that employees who are critical thinking and decisive, will be filtered out at recruitment. There is boundless literature out there on IR models and what Qantas does is clearly articulated for the curious.

Sadly, overall this approach increases total factor cost, but in a company devoid of ideas, and a dinosaur Chairman like Clifford (look up his form at Rio Tinto with regard to unions and labour), any wonder this is the result? It is all they know; a continued war on staff.

[H-Dog]

Can the same people please stop hijacking every Qantas thread and filling them with negative rhetoric. I'd suggest that the recruitment thread is not the best place for this negativity. Many people are interested to know what is going on so please don't muddy the waters here.

[Tuck Mach]

Negative rhetoric? Hijack? :D I thought the angels were on holiday already?

Let the moderators decide, what is permissible.

The recruiting game has changed at Qantas and other airlines, so attempts to clarify what a candidate will experience, as opposed to those of us with major airline experience encountered when we were recruited. The role of the IR/HR model and its impact on candidate selection are relevant.

Rather than dealing in subjective opinion, candidates might want to read Qantas' submission to the productivity commission, to understand how recruiting fits into their view of employees.

http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/187915/sub0116-workplace-relations.pdf

Over to you moderators!

[H-Dog]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/554/facepalm.jpg

[skysook]

Well said H-Dog!

Tuck-Mach you're boring and I fall asleep reading your posts, so shut up.

Now back to relevant information that this thread was intended for...

[engine out]

Latest email from CP said external applicants expected to start training in March.

Rumour also, though no validity and I personally have doubts about it, at least one Virgin pilot sounded out/offered direct entry FO in Perth.

[Hoofharted]

Can the same people please stop hijacking every Qantas thread and filling them with negative rhetoric. I'd suggest that the recruitment thread is not the best place for this negativity. Many people are interested to know what is going on so please don't muddy the waters here.
So you're not interested in the truth or reality of the situation? Very interesting. What part of the industry are you working in at the moment? Airlines, GA?
Funny how these days if someone holds an opinion contrary to your own it's much easier to yell "hater" or some other such fatuously gormless dribble rather than address the issue under contention. Just saying, but maybe I should be quite about it instead. :oh::oh:

[Keg]

Even if Tuck Mach's comments on this thread are valid (and a lot of them regarding QF's current process are pure fantasy) there is sweet FA any applicant can do about it.

In that respect the discussion that H dog is seeking is to simply keep this thread relevant to the ongoing process and that those who want to discuss the relative merits of what they think the process is/ should be take it elsewhere as they're repetitive and add nothing of value to those trying to get in.

[morno]

For christs sake fella's, every f**king airline is the same no matter where you go. I hear it all the time, and quite frankly I'm over it. :ugh:

There's an easy solution to all your problems in life/aviation - get out of it. :*

For those who want to just get on with their careers, don't pay attention to the drivel touted by those above. Get into the positions that YOU want. There's little you can do about the things that bother these guys, so just sit back, relax, enjoy the job. Those that get caught up in it all just become grumpy old men who can never be pleased. Case in point above.

Anyway, back to the point of the thread. For those seeking recruiting information about Qantas and nothing more. Good luck to all those who have applied.

morno

[garman]

I got the email asking for reference checks yesterday. But still have to see a psychologist as the results form my clinical assessment were "socially desirable". From what I can gather HR are on break until the end of Jan and no "yes" letters will be handed out until then...

[CurtainTwitcher]

I had to look that one up: Social desirability bias (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_desirability_bias), quoted verbatum :)

Social desirability bias is a social science research term that describes a type of response bias that is the tendency of survey respondents to answer questions in a manner that will be viewed favorably by others. It can take the form of over-reporting "good behavior" or under-reporting "bad", or undesirable behavior. The tendency poses a serious problem with conducting research with self-reports, especially questionnaires. This bias interferes with the interpretation of average tendencies as well as individual differences.

Topics where socially desirable responding (SDR) is of special concern are self-reports of abilities, personality, sexual behavior, and drug use. When confronted with the question "How often do you masturbate?", for example, respondents may be pressured by the societal taboo against masturbation, and either under-report the frequency or avoid answering the question. Therefore, the mean rates of masturbation derived from self-report surveys are likely to be severe underestimates.

Looks like the test detected inconsistencies in your answers & they want a human to evaluate you as well.

[Tuck Mach]

My attempts to show the game has changed isn't fantasy, it is at all airlines largely a result of corporate tagging wagging the flight operations dog..An adversarial IR and HR structure is a characteristic of Qantas and it is more pronounced these days than ever, hence the confusion that many new candidates are finding. The escalation was certainly evident in 2011 and the roll out continues.

The courageous semi anonymous postings are interesting psychologically but information may just help someone who was looking to understand the game from the HR side. I wish all new applicants well in the new confusing HR processes, airlines sure aren't what they used to be!

And for the record, fantasy would be letting your colleagues assume that you were RAAF, when in actuality the lauding over young cadets is as far as you got.

[Tankengine]

[QUOTE
And for the record, fantasy would be letting your colleagues assume that you were RAAF, when in actuality the lauding over young cadets is as far as you got.[/QUOTE]

Seems to be directed, I have not seen that either here on Prune or at work.
The fantasy seems more in your mind that you are an airline HR expert.

[Keg]

And for the record, fantasy would be letting your colleagues assume that you were RAAF, when in actuality the lauding over young cadets is as far as you got.

Oh puh-lease. This is the best you've got? Your comments about Qantas demonstrate your ignorance as to what happens there and this attempted shot shows your ignorance as to who I am, what I've done or not done, and what I tell others of my background and experiences.

The hilarious aspect though is you've demonstrated to those QF drivers who frequent this forum (and who actually know me) what a fraud you are. Nice own goal clown. :D

[mcgrath50]

Ah yes, Keg the man trying so hard to hide his background he regularly posts about his experience as a Qantas cadet, has one of the best "advice for cadet applicant" threads in the archives and is never backwards in hiding his identity on these forums. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Let's have a bit of respect for one of the few posters on this forum that you actually know where they are coming from even when you disagree.

[Fonz121]

I'm assuming those who have been asked for references are external applicants?

[MnM23]

Have any of the external applicants meeting the requirements been told "no" after completing the video interview and psychometric testing?

Haven't heard a peep in regards to my application and didn't receive the xmas break email so just wondering if I'm still in the pool or flushed away.

[IsDon]

My attempts to show the game has changed isn't fantasy, it is at all airlines largely a result of corporate tagging wagging the flight operations dog..An adversarial IR and HR structure is a characteristic of Qantas and it is more pronounced these days than ever, hence the confusion that many new candidates are finding. The escalation was certainly evident in 2011 and the roll out continues.

The courageous semi anonymous postings are interesting psychologically but information may just help someone who was looking to understand the game from the HR side. I wish all new applicants well in the new confusing HR processes, airlines sure aren't what they used to be!

And for the record, fantasy would be letting your colleagues assume that you were RAAF, when in actuality the lauding over young cadets is as far as you got.

You make some good points, some I even agree with. HR, as an example, should be a support organisation. They are now an empire with way more influence than they deserve. Quite how the head of Qantas HR is higher than the chief pilot on the corporate tree I'll never know.

Adversarial IR, yes, certainly in the past, but the last EA negotiations seemed (from one not directly involved in negotiations) to have been conducted with far more mutual respect and consultation. This is directly attributable to the people involved on both sides of the table. All are honourable people who I have personally worked with and know well. We owe them all a collective debt of gratitude.

Your last sentence, however, does your credibility no favours whatsoever.

I have known Keg for many years and have had the pleasure of sharing the 767 flight deck with him on many occasions, although far too few. His professionalism and standing within Qantas is beyond reproach. Regular PPRuNers know he has always been open and honest with his time and advice. His advice even helped me into Qantas after I spent a year in the wilderness post Ansett debacle. Before that I spent 16 years in the RAAF. Keg has never once represented that he was a former RAAF pilot, although I'm certain if he had the opportunities I was fortunate enough to have he would have had a stellar career. Perhaps he was the victim of the HR mafia you seem so angry at, I don't know. What I do know is that, despite not serving as a RAAF pilot, he has done more for the RAAF by nurturing young kids into a future career in the military, than any other person I know. He even tried to get me to sign up for the cadets once. I'll be the first to admit I'm a lot more selfish with my time than Keg. Just like the other 99% of the population.

Your comments also deride the Air Force Cadets as an organisation. Many past, present and future Air Force officers and airmen are given their first taste of the RAAF through this organisation. In fact my nephew has been with the organisation for many years, was sent solo in a glider at age 15 thanks to an Air Force Cadet scholarship, has been given work experience on two bases in recent years and continues to use their guidance to realise his career goal of joining ADFA as a RAAF pilot trainee. It's a wonderful organisation filled with great people.

So, Pal, in closing, PULL YOUR HEAD IN! Now please return to the Qantas recruitment discussion.

[maggot]

Uh gees

Wrap it up boys

[IsDon]

I'm not T-Tail.

[maggot]

I'm not T-Tail.

Yeah that was funny

[Keg]

Sorry to drag this off thread but I'm not going to let this anonymous BS to sit out in the open without a response.

Funny how people love to take anonymous pot shots but no one ever has the guts to say stuff to your face. In Mohikan's case this sad obsession goes back more than 6 years.

So once again I'll state publicly what I've previously stated publicly (http://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/266841-super-hornets-raaf-13.html#post5602846) 6 years ago. It's what I tell every person I fly with who asks my background.

I'm an ex Qantas cadet. I graduated the Australian Aviation College (later it became known as Flight Training Adelaide) in 1992. I've never been a RAAF pilot. I've never told anyone I was an ex RAAF pilot. If someone has asked me if I was ex RAAF I've said 'no'.

Here's the rest of the story for the avoidance of doubt.

I started as a 744 S/O in January '95. I failed my first line check as a 767 F/O around Sept '97. I facilitated CRM from 2004- 2005. I converted to the 744 as a F/O in 2006. I converted back to the 767 and upgraded to command in 2008. I failed Com 8 sim along the way. I was demoted to F/O A380 in early 2015 when the 767 was retired. I converted to the A330 and got my command back in a PER base in Jan 16. I commute from Sydney.

I spent 20 years in various ranks within the Air Training Corps/ Australian Air Force Cadets. I'm happy to detail those ranks and appointments if anyone cares- I suspect no one does. My one and only experience in any RAAF aircraft was a PC9 ride in early 2001.

I've got a daughter who has just finished her HSC and wants to be a neo-natal nurse; a son who is going into year 9; and a daughter going into year 4. I'm a Sydney Swans member and I go to an Anglican church in the Sutherland Shire every Sunday I can. I'm pretty much an open book here, on Qrewroom, and flying the line.

Mohikan's identity on the other hand.........

I'd be very surprised if any PER F/O thought I was ex RAAF. Given Mohikan's previous form of simply making stuff up (try an advanced search of Mohikan's username with my handle of Keg as the 'keyword' for some examples of the type of tripe that make up the obsession) my money is this is yet another fabrication.

If I talk Christianity on the flight deck it's because the subject has come up, not because I've pushed it. When discussing why I'm not interested certain things that other crew are I'll explain its due to my Christian faith. If they ask, I go into more detail. If they don't, I don't.

Sorry again everyone for the distraction. It's sad that cowards like Mohikan and Mach Tuck never have the guts to say anything to someone's face but try and damage reputations whilst anonymously hiding behind their keyboards.

Merry Christmas to all the nice people on PPRUNE. My thanks to IsDon and mcgrath50 for their support. Really appreciate it.

[Keg]

One final note about discussing Christianity on the flight deck. Over the years I've listened to people talk about politics, economics, astronomy, Investing, renovations, relationships, marriage, death, refugees, video piracy, world conflict, US elections, third world immigration, drugs in society, same sex marriage and any number of variations on those themes, etc. if I can listen politely to a socialist green voter whilst they discuss the relative merits of their world view and why they hold such beliefs why is me explaining my beliefs and why I disagree with the other person such a heinous crime?