Qantas Recruitment

[Brakerider]

Any internals or guys/girls at VA hear anything yet?

there's still people on hold from 2018 recruiting that haven't had start dates - don't expect the process to be quick.

[Pedalz]

Having been reference/sounding board for an applicant, I was quite surprised just how poorly organised/communicated the whole process seemed to be especially once people reach the hold file - it seems recruitment is run by short term contractors and the tech crew involved seemed to be even more out of the loop with applicants left for months/years on end with no formal updates. Wouldn't hold your breathe for a quick outcome - it seems most of QF is on the backside of the drag curve post COVID.

[ScepticalOptomist]

there's still people on hold from 2018 recruiting that haven't had start dates - don't expect the process to be quick.

From one on the team organising recruitment - everyone on the hold file is being looked at / spoken to as part of the current application process. Externals and internals alike. It will take some time, but they are going through everyone’s application, especially as Covid has mucked around with peoples recency etc. They are actively recruiting for approximately 270 over the coming 12 months.

Hang tight and good luck.

[ScepticalOptomist]

That was my first thought on reading, how many would actually want to go? I'm sure left and right seat guys at QLink would, but J*? I would have thought it would be only the junior FO's and even at that I'm sure many would be settled?

I fly with plenty of ex JQ Capt and FOs who are now SOs with us. The common theme from them is that JQ doesn’t offer the same work / life balance and in order to achieve a decent rate of pay you have to work a lot more, and it’s not sustainable in the long term.

Just before Covid started I personally knew one 787 Captain that was looking to join QF as he’d had enough of the rigmarole at JQ. Horses for courses..

[cLeArIcE]

I fly with plenty of ex JQ Capt and FOs who are now SOs with us. The common theme from them is that JQ doesn’t offer the same work / life balance and in order to achieve a decent rate of pay you have to work a lot more, and it’s not sustainable in the long term.

Just before Covid started I personally knew one 787 Captain that was looking to join QF as he’d had enough of the rigmarole at JQ. Horses for courses..

100% this, I hear it all the time. Never mind the lack of basic respect ,terrible rostering and lack of any sort of operational support.

[SixDemonBag]

How many 787 captains would have an MOU slot to a left seat at QF now?

[non_state_actor]

Having been reference/sounding board for an applicant, I was quite surprised just how poorly organised/communicated the whole process seemed to be especially once people reach the hold file - it seems recruitment is run by short term contractors and the tech crew involved seemed to be even more out of the loop with applicants left for months/years on end with no formal updates. Wouldn't hold your breathe for a quick outcome - it seems most of QF is on the backside of the drag curve post COVID.

That was my experience and what I witnessed with colleagues at the time 19+ years ago and all done in house by QF people.
I have never understood why that process is so difficult in airlines but it always has been and sounds like nothing has changed. It's seems like noone plans recruitment until the last minute then suddenly there is a crisis and we need a 100 people starting tomorrow.

[Chad Gates]

The most senior MOU position couldn’t hold a 737 command in any base, yet. It’s getting pretty close to a junior base (PER, ADL and for the time being MEL) though.

How many eligible MOU people are left in JQ?

[Sparrows.]

How many eligible MOU people are left in JQ?

Last seniority list, 109. But been a few retirements since then. So maybe 100?

[High_To_Low]

Have contracts gone out yet for starts later in the year?

[Bumble_Pilot]

Do qlink have many interviews/ground schools booked in?

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Good afternoon,

Has anyone here gone to sit their aptitude test in the past few days to find that the link has expired early?

A friend was sent an invitation to test with an expiry date of 17 April but on 16 April (today) the website says that the link has expired.

I'm happy if you would prefer to DM me and I can share or not share your story here if you like.

[kjvmw]

The email said it expired on the 17/4 but when logged in to complete the test it actually said it expired on the 15/4.

[Colonel_Klink]

And these are the people who are assessing Pilot aptitude…give me strength.

[Bones13]

What experience is getting an aptitude test?

[AQIS Boigu]

What experience is getting an aptitude test?

A lot…5 figures and jet time

But please don’t give up

[kjvmw]

Not even half way to 5 figures but a bit of experience from a certain operator they seem to like.

[Ladloy]

I wonder if the HR department has an extensive list of incomplete aptitude tests because of this.

[afc123]

Anyone that has done the testing the last few weeks. Is it just Numerical, verbal and inductive reasoning ?
Or also personality and other tests ?
thabjs


I did the tests April 13 for QF SO. They were a SHL Numerical/verbal/inductive reasoning test, 36min - 28 questions I think it was. As well as a Personality and Motivational test.
Received an email April 19, interviewing in Brisbane late May. From memory there was circa 4 days to choose from two slots a day.

[aussieflyboy]

I did the tests April 13 for QF SO. They were a SHL Numerical/verbal/inductive reasoning test, 36min - 28 questions I think it was. As well as a Personality and Motivational test.
Received an email April 19, interviewing in Brisbane late May. From memory there was circa 4 days to choose from two slots a day.

Did they offer you discounted/free flights at all? Surely a corporate discount at the Holiday Inn was provided as well?

[afc123]

Did they offer you discounted/free flights at all? Surely a corporate discount at the Holiday Inn was provided as well?


Nothing was offered, but I haven't made contact to question it either to be fair. Staff travel and Airpoints made the firm 50 flights palatable and I've got free accom in GC so I'm not tooooo bothered. If I get a call back for the sim assessment then I'll certainly be asking for a leg up; I was quite surprised to hear that the sim was a few weeks later for those that progress.

[afc123]

Can anyone please point me in the direction of a current EA/CA for QF 787 SO? TIA.

[Climb150]

Qantas group give free nothing. There are plenty more behind you who will pay for everything.😁

[Sparrows.]

Can anyone please point me in the direction of a current EA/CA for QF 787 SO? TIA.

On the fair work website like every other one.

https://sasrcdataprdaueaa.blob.core.windows.net/enterpriseagreements/2020/4/ae507855.pdf?sv=2019-07-07&spr=https,http&st=2022-04-23T21%3A14%3A18Z&se=2022-04-24T21%3A14%3A18Z&sr=c&sp=r&sig=K1xEN5VebgsHzeM4kXgjuFKa%2FUQWnvXgYmZ8jjG2N04%3D

[Ladloy]

Does anyone have any idea what 'tech questions' will be asked?

[Don Diego]

Yes, what is the Vmo of an adult kookaburra??

[dr dre]

Does anyone have any idea what 'tech questions' will be asked?

“Tech questions” aren’t asked anymore. It’s behavioural and personality based.

You have to have either an ATPL or passed ATPL theory to apply, so that’s where your “tech knowledge” has been assessed

[ScepticalOptomist]

“Tech questions” aren’t asked anymore. It’s behavioural and personality based.

You have to have either an ATPL or passed ATPL theory to apply, so that’s where your “tech knowledge” has been assessed

Tech questions are there to see if the knowledge matches the experience level. Plenty of licensed pilots who don’t know jack about their craft - we should be asking why - preferably at the interview, not after they’ve failed conversion course.

[afc123]

[QUOTE=Sparrows.;11220071]On the fair work website like every other one.


Thanks Sparrows. . I haven't worked in AU before so I wasn't aware the FWC existed. Ta.

[Bones13]

Just ticked ‘prefer not to say’ on the gender identity question. You get an automatic aptitude testing invite.

[neville_nobody]

Tech questions are there to see if the knowledge matches the experience level. Plenty of licensed pilots who don’t know jack about their craft - we should be asking why - preferably at the interview, not after they’ve failed conversion course.

Good in theory but it never worked that way in practice. They were always obscure irrelevant trivia questions that had no real bearing on anything.

If interviewers actually had practical questions it would be relevant to ask them.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Just ticked ‘prefer not to say’ on the gender identity question. You get an automatic aptitude testing invite.

In that case I “identify” as the CEO

[ScepticalOptomist]

Good in theory but it never worked that way in practice. They were always obscure irrelevant trivia questions that had no real bearing on anything.

If interviewers actually had practical questions it would be relevant to ask them.

Obviously depends on the company! My current employer used tech questions well - more practical and pragmatic than others I’d endured.

If the tech questions are based around the flying you have been doing I think they’re well worthwhile. Esoteric systems type questions - not so much.

[dr dre]

Obviously depends on the company! My current employer used tech questions well - more practical and pragmatic than others I’d endured.

If the tech questions are based around the flying you have been doing I think they’re well worthwhile. Esoteric systems type questions - not so much.

These “tech questions” once were things like “define critical Mach number” or “recite CAO 20.7.1B”. It was just pointless rote learning and regurgitating from a list of questions that wouldn’t have much practical value.

Far better to have scenario questions like “You’re the Captain, you are in this situation, then these things happen, what are you going to do”. This evaluates things not tested in ATPL theory like decision making processes, management and teamwork skills.

I guess if you’ve got hundreds of applicants and limited time to interview them, then getting them to recite rote learned answers to tech questions is a waste of time.

[Brakerider]

These “tech questions” once were things like “define critical Mach number” or “recite CAO 20.7.1B”. It was just pointless rote learning and regurgitating from a list of questions that wouldn’t have much practical value.

Far better to have scenario questions like “You’re the Captain, you are in this situation, then these things happen, what are you going to do”. This evaluates things not tested in ATPL theory like decision making processes, management and teamwork skills.

I guess if you’ve got hundreds of applicants and limited time to interview them, then getting them to recite rote learned answers to tech questions is a waste of time.

I can confirm from personal experience, that in the last round of interviews scenario based technical questions were asked in the manner you describe. Not all candidates got technical questions, as I believe it is as the discretion of the SME during the interview.

Internal memos suggest a stronger influence on technical questions this time round.

[TimmyTee]

If you interview and test better than everyone else, why should it matter to QLink where you want to go?

[TimmyTee]

My point was more, if you make the grade at both, why would it matter to your employer where you choose to go?

[aussieflyboy]

Is it true Qantas are telling internal staff on hold that they won’t be given a start date unless they complete a first aid certificate?

[ScepticalOptomist]

Is it true Qantas are telling internal staff on hold that they won’t be given a start date unless they complete a first aid certificate?

Haven’t heard that one! Sounds more like a cabin crew requirement.

[NOT PHASED]

Is it true Qantas are telling internal staff on hold that they won’t be given a start date unless they complete a first aid certificate?

Check out Part 121 MOS 12.10 for recently introduced first aid requirements for flight crew

[josephfeatherweight]

Check out Part 121 MOS 12.10 for recently introduced first aid requirements for flight crew

But Part 121 MOS 12.10 says:
12.10 Flight crew—first-aid training

(1) This section applies if:

(a) a flight crew member is assigned to duty on an aeroplane for a flight; and

(b) regulation 121.630 of CASR does not require a cabin crew member to be carried on the aeroplane for the flight; and

(c) a cabin crew member is not assigned to duty on the aeroplane for the flight.

How on earth would (b) and (c) be relevant to a Qantas flight??

[dr dre]

But Part 121 MOS 12.10 says:
12.10 Flight crew—first-aid training

(1) This section applies if:

(a) a flight crew member is assigned to duty on an aeroplane for a flight; and

(b) regulation 121.630 of CASR does not require a cabin crew member to be carried on the aeroplane for the flight; and

(c) a cabin crew member is not assigned to duty on the aeroplane for the flight.

How on earth would (b) and (c) be relevant to a Qantas flight??

Ferry flight would be my guess

[aussieflyboy]

Why should an internal applicant be paying for this. Surely this can be organised and paid for by the company…

[AQIS Boigu]

How long after SHL assessment are guys getting a yes / no ?

Three weeks

[altocu]

But Part 121 MOS 12.10 says:
12.10 Flight crew—first-aid training

(1) This section applies if:

(a) a flight crew member is assigned to duty on an aeroplane for a flight; and

(b) regulation 121.630 of CASR does not require a cabin crew member to be carried on the aeroplane for the flight; and

(c) a cabin crew member is not assigned to duty on the aeroplane for the flight.

How on earth would (b) and (c) be relevant to a Qantas flight??

There's plenty of freight flying going on at the moment that would trigger that requirement.

[t_cas]

There's plenty of freight flying going on at the moment that would trigger that requirement.

There is a certain irony to all of this.

If it is a ferry flight or freight, it is irrelevant to the practical considerations.

When 2 pilots are on board to operate a flight and INFLIGHT a medical emergency takes place that MAY require first aid……

HOW will one of the 2 pilots remain at the controls whilst the ONE pilot deals with administering first aid to the other ONE pilot having an event?

It is pretty clear that securing interference of controls whilst Landing ASAP (in control) is the only outcome that is possible without contravention of the regulations that appear to be regulating First Aid certification. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[ScepticalOptomist]

Ferry flight would be my guess

Every ferry / freight flight I’ve seen / done is heavy crewed.

[Roj approved]

There is a certain irony to all of this.

If it is a ferry flight or freight, it is irrelevant to the practical considerations.

When 2 pilots are on board to operate a flight and INFLIGHT a medical emergency takes place that MAY require first aid……

HOW will one of the 2 pilots remain at the controls whilst the ONE pilot deals with administering first aid to the other ONE pilot having an event?

It is pretty clear that securing interference of controls whilst Landing ASAP (in control) is the only outcome that is possible without contravention of the regulations that appear to be regulating First Aid certification. 🤷🏻‍♂️

This is GOLD t_cas, pure GOLD!!;-)

[tossbag]

if your too cheap to pay $100 for a first aid certificate to be eligible for a job

Because that's all it is right? Just $100 for a first aid cert, there's no other 'little' one off costs right, just that one.

[aussieflyboy]

enough arguing about CARs / if your too cheap to pay $100 for a first aid certificate to be eligible for a job you really want then please dont join an airline or you'll be the guy taking the toilet rolls of the plane

Moving on. Anyone heard much? are they doing it in stages after a group have done online aptitude inviting them for interviews or waiting until all applicants complete online testing?

What about the $1400 medical that had to be completed prior to be offered a spot on the hold file…

But wait, if your an internal applicant your already employed/paid/required to abide by Qantas and their policies… why should you be paying anything?? You chump are the reason the race to the bottom continues.

[t_cas]

enough arguing about CARs / if your too cheap to pay $100 for a first aid certificate to be eligible for a job you really want then please dont join an airline or you'll be the guy taking the toilet rolls of the plane

Moving on. Anyone heard much? are they doing it in stages after a group have done online aptitude inviting them for interviews or waiting until all applicants complete online testing?

I expect you may have supported the qualification of “working from heights” requirements as well?

[SixDemonBag]

Toilet rolls are a valuable commodity

[regitaekilthgiwt]

Every ferry / freight flight I’ve seen / done is heavy crewed.

That’s funny. You don’t work for Qf then.

[kjvmw]

Yes a lot of people

[Ladloy]

any update on the recruitment front? Are people progressing from testing to interviews etc?
I know about 5 turboprop drivers who have completed interviews and sim rides but nothing past that.

[TimmyTee]

Anecdotally, appears to be more progress for pilots from some airlines, and less from others overall

[Ladloy]

Anecdotally, appears to be more progress for pilots from some airlines, and less from others overall
Heard of anyone getting to the hold file stage?

[aussieflyboy]

Heard of anyone getting to the hold file stage?

Is this the same hold file that has people from 2018 on it?

[Sparrows.]

Is this the same hold file that has people from 2018 on it?

Yes.

And that hold file is forecast to be empty by October. Apparently

130 SO’s to be recruited over the next 12 months.

[Ladloy]

Yes.

And that hold file is forecast to be empty by October. Apparently

130 SO’s to be recruited over the next 12 months.
I heard almost 300 required or is it 130 externally?

[TimmyTee]

Will the 321s coming to short haul create or reduce recruitment opportunities at QF?

[dr dre]

Will the 321s coming to short haul create or reduce recruitment opportunities at QF?

Create opportunities, as long as the variations are voted up and the aircraft comes to mainline of course

[stillcallozhome]

Create opportunities, as long as the variations are voted up and the aircraft comes to mainline of course

Don’t see how it’s creating jobs as it’s a replacement for the 737. There’s only growth if the 737s are staying - which they’re not.

[dr dre]

Don’t see how it’s creating jobs as it’s a replacement for the 737. There’s only growth if the 737s are staying - which they’re not.

You’ll need more pilots for a new aircraft type to cover instructors, those absent during training etc.

The A321 will cover existing domestic plus potentially more short haul Asian routes, which would be growth above the current numbers. While the 737 remains you’ll still be training pilots on to that.

[stillcallozhome]

You’ll need more pilots for a new aircraft type to cover instructors, those absent during training etc.

The A321 will cover existing domestic plus potentially more short haul Asian routes, which would be growth above the current numbers. While the 737 remains you’ll still be training pilots on to that.

Sounds like an overlap to me. Doesn’t seem very cost effective to hire crews to cover instructors being trained and conversions for existing pilots.

I agree with 321 doing Asian routes which COULD replace 330. Won’t need as many crew either because it’s not on LH award.

DA said it’s a fleet replacement. This seems a 1 for 1 swap at this stage. The only reason it’s the 321 first is so they can squeeze for the variation I reckon. Rest will be 320s in a like for like swap.

Just my 2c.

[Flyonthewall2020]

I don't think the current version of the cadet scheme is anywhere near the same as the old version, which included industry placement. The current one seems like a fast food franchise (operations conducted by a third party but with visits from head shed to keep an eye on things, some mentoring and to validate the logo on the front door). Two graduates were in a recent QLink intake of Dash 8 FOs.


I can confirm this as a current student, it is a bit of a sausage factory and they vaguely tell you that this is not a cadetship and is entirely run by FTA with Qantas reps coming in every couple of months. The academy does an intake of about 10-20 students every 7 weeks, already upto 18 groups so far with ~100+ graduates in about 2 years. They have plans to ramp up to 250 students a year.

The course is approx. 56 weeks with the only break being a couple of days over Christmas, no other public holidays throughout the year are observed. GS being 8-5 Mon-Fri and flying phases are 6 days a week, very fatiguing/students do burn out.

At the end of it you get CPL, MEIR, ATPL theory and MCC (approx. 150-200 hours total time). You get a spot in the Qantas group future pilot program and then they send you on your way with a big graduation ceremony (noting you still graduate if you have failed ATPL subjects and still need to pass them, it's on you to do this in your own time afterwards).

So far graduates seem to either look for GA jobs up north or get their instructors rating and come back and instruct at the academy, many are on the first job hunt. I've heard of about 2 or 3 graduates so far getting into Qlink. Will be interesting how we fair post covid, whether we've been suckered in with the branding or we'll be given a leg up for Qlink jobs.

[SHVC]

The course is approx. 56 weeks with the only break being a couple of days over Christmas, no other public holidays throughout the year are observed. GS being 8-5 Mon-Fri and flying phases are 6 days a week, very fatiguing/students do burn out.

They’re just preparing them for when they get on the line.

[FO NappyBum]

I can confirm this as a current student, it is a bit of a sausage factory and they vaguely tell you that this is not a cadetship and is entirely run by FTA with Qantas reps coming in every couple of months. The academy does an intake of about 10-20 students every 7 weeks, already upto 18 groups so far with ~100+ graduates in about 2 years. They have plans to ramp up to 250 students a year.

The course is approx. 56 weeks with the only break being a couple of days over Christmas, no other public holidays throughout the year are observed. GS being 8-5 Mon-Fri and flying phases are 6 days a week, very fatiguing/students do burn out.

At the end of it you get CPL, MEIR, ATPL theory and MCC (approx. 150-200 hours total time). You get a spot in the Qantas group future pilot program and then they send you on your way with a big graduation ceremony (noting you still graduate if you have failed ATPL subjects and still need to pass them, it's on you to do this in your own time afterwards).

So far graduates seem to either look for GA jobs up north or get their instructors rating and come back and instruct at the academy, many are on the first job hunt. I've heard of about 2 or 3 graduates so far getting into Qlink. Will be interesting how we fair post covid, whether we've been suckered in with the branding or we'll be given a leg up for Qlink jobs.


How much are you kids paying for this? #HECS

[Flyonthewall2020]

How much are you kids paying for this? #HECS
About $130k (+ 20% hecs fee) + accommodation ($20k) so around $175k total 🥲

[WillieTheWimp]

Can you really put a price on a set of aviators and an IG story? #pilotlife

[HappyBandit]

About $130k (+ 20% hecs fee) + accommodation ($20k) so around $175k total 🥲

Far out! And I baulked forking out about $80k for my CPL 20 years ago. Mind you the expenses keep going with medicals, endorsements on new aircraft, union fees, phone calls to the 3 wives.

[tossbag]

so around $175k total 🥲

Jesus ******* H Christ. Imagine the opportunity cost of that, deposit on a Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane home, a millionaire in 15 years.

[dr dre]

Jesus ******* H Christ. Imagine the opportunity cost of that, deposit on a Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane home, a millionaire in 15 years.

But it's on HECS/FEE-HELP, it's a loan. So you're not paying that cost upfront.

A University degree is going to set you back $80-120k (https://study.unimelb.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/48062/2019-tuition-fee-tables-for-australian-fee-paying-students.pdf) all up, plus living costs over 3 years. Comparable to the Academy course except the academy qualifies you faster.Currently movement into the group is limited. However if what is being rumoured about the requirements for upcoming recruitment over the next 5 years are correct then they'll need a substantial amount of recruitment into mainline alone, an amount never before seen in the company's history. And then all the recruitment into group subsidiaries beyond that. Inevitable Academy graduates will have to taken directly into the group, and straight into mainline, at some stage.

Yes, it the world economy could all fall in a heap and it's back to square one. But with a constant few years of growth it could be quite a spurt, and there'll be some who are able to take advantage of some rapid movement at an early point in their career if well positioned.

Far out! And I baulked forking out about $80k for my CPL 20 years ago. Mind you the expenses keep going with medicals, endorsements on new aircraft, union fees, phone calls to the 3 wives.

Funnily enough with inflation $80k in 2002 would now be $125k in 2022.

[Capt Fathom]

I thought $7500 for a CPL + IR was highway robbery in the mid seventies. As it turned out it was only a years salary in GA then.
So I got it back pretty soon.
How do you get back $175k ?

[Stationair8]

Living the dream!

[Icarus2001]

It’s not $175k for goodness sake. The living costs cannot be counted as you have to live somewhere, even mum and dad usually charge board.
The HECS is not paid upfront.
Leaving the $130k as about two years GA wages or one year as a jet FO. Not a bad deal. Qualify by 25 and you can look forward to 30-35 years of reasonable income, your lifestyle choice is up to you.

[Pendingclearance]

It’s not $175k for goodness sake. The living costs cannot be counted as you have to live somewhere, even mum and dad usually charge board.
The HECS is not paid upfront.
Leaving the $130k as about two years GA wages or one year as a jet FO. Not a bad deal. Qualify by 25 and you can look forward to 30-35 years of reasonable income, your lifestyle choice is up to you.

$130k 2 years of GA wages? Certainly not your first 2 years!

[Gnadenburg]

Qualify by 25 and you can look forward to 30-35 years of reasonable income, your lifestyle choice is up to you.

That is not a given. Even great airlines see their luck run out unexpectedly. And the money in the airline business isn’t what it once was.

Any young pilot coming through the system should seriously consider the possibility of changing professions in their later years. Be prepared as best you can.

[tossbag]

Jesus H ******* Christ, how about the opportunity cost of loan repayments for however long it takes to pay back? Repayments on an investment loan after bank of dad gives you the deposit. Millionaire by the time of an early retirement.

A University degree is going to set you back $80-120k (https://study.unimelb.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0020/48062/2019-tuition-fee-tables-for-australian-fee-paying-students.pdf) all up

How about a trade in a government subsidised scheme where you pay sweet FA? 3 years at a modest income then hook it to the mines for 5 years of premo pay to set yourself up. Real estate millionaire after 15 years.

[tossbag]

$130k 2 years of GA wages?

Snickers to oneself, have you read the award lately? Have a look at that then tell me how many years it will take you reach 65k per year?

[Red69]

A 4 year university degree for a commonwealth supported student is under 40k. Medicine/dentistry might approach 60k. They’re still a lot cheaper than a pilots license.
You’d be a fool to outlay that much on a pilots license these days knowing how easily you could be out of a job. I don’t think many of these tertiary educated individuals would have been stood down or made redundant during covid. Most of them would have worked from home and if they were let go, they would have found a higher paying job a few months later.

[Colonel_Klink]

It’s not $175k for goodness sake. The living costs cannot be counted as you have to live somewhere, even mum and dad usually charge board.
The HECS is not paid upfront.
Leaving the $130k as about two years GA wages or one year as a jet FO. Not a bad deal. Qualify by 25 and you can look forward to 30-35 years of reasonable income, your lifestyle choice is up to you.​​​​​

Saving $130k is certainly a lot different to earning $130k.

[Icarus2001]

A 4 year university degree for a commonwealth supported student is under 40k. Medicine/dentistry might approach 60k. Two words ENTRY BARRIER

That is not a given. Even great airlines see their luck run out unexpectedly. And the money in the airline business isn’t what it once was. You are a barrel of laughs. NOTHING is a given, only death and taxes. I may not wake up tomorrow, or an asteroid could destroy the earth but on the balance of probabilities you would have a reasonable chance of a thirty year career, starting at 25, moving companies or countries, for an investment of $130k

Snickers to oneself, have you read the award lately? Have a look at that then tell me how many years it will take you reach 65k per year? Okay call it three years to pay off, heck call it four. Now put that in context of a thirty five year career.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

Okay call it three years to pay off, heck call it four. Now put that in context of a thirty five year career.

And then add in the impact on your mental and physical health, the family occasions missed, the Christmases missed, the constant downward pressure on T&C, the divorce(s) and the following annihilation of your personal wealth. Aviation was a good career once and now it’s a death trap with an associated financial spiral. There are hundreds of careers out there that outstrip this industry in term as of health, wealth and family. But if you need to fly, go right ahead there will be no shortage of jobs available soon, they’re all yours.

[morno]

Two words ENTRY BARRIER

You are a barrel of laughs. NOTHING is a given, only death and taxes. I may not wake up tomorrow, or an asteroid could destroy the earth but on the balance of probabilities you would have a reasonable chance of a thirty year career, starting at 25, moving companies or countries, for an investment of $130k

Okay call it three years to pay off, heck call it four. Now put that in context of a thirty five year career.

Probably try more like 6-7. You’re forgetting you have to pay tax, live, etc. at the same time as paying off a $130k loan.

[Icarus2001]

I was not implying that it could be paid off in two, three or four years. I was pointing it out as a quantum of investment relative to return.

Aviation was a good career once and now it’s a death trap with an associated financial spiral.

I feel really sorry for you if you believe that.

[WannaBeBiggles]

Two words ENTRY BARRIER

Okay call it three years to pay off, heck call it four. Now put that in context of a thirty five year career.

That level of ability to read government legislation with a 130k debt is worrying.

HELP loans top out at 10% of salary once you reach 141,848 (22-23). Not even a jetstar FO reaches that for a good number of years, let alone someone in GA bashing around in a clapped out single or twin out of Ngukurr. Now tell me again how you’ll pay it off in four years?

[LostontheLOC]

That level of ability to read government legislation with a 130k debt is worrying.

HELP loans top out at 10% of salary once you reach 141,848 (22-23). Not even a jetstar FO reaches that for a good number of years, let alone someone in GA bashing around in a clapped out single or twin out of Ngukurr. Now tell me again how you’ll pay it off in four years?

A level 3 (entry level) Jetstar FO can quite easily and even over the past year can make 145k+.

[HappyBandit]

This HERE the Best Advice available.
absolutely!!

My 12 year old son has just downloaded Flight Simulator and said to me, "your job is awesome dad." I immediately sat beside him and said, "Flying is alot of fun, but so is celebrating your birthdays, not stressing about all the stresses flying brings. If you want to fly do it as a hobby. Don't do it as a job, it's simply not worth it."

I should add, Ive been very fortunate and overall I've had a lot of fun, but would I do it again? HELL NO!"

[FO NappyBum]

It’s not $175k for goodness sake. The living costs cannot be counted as you have to live somewhere, even mum and dad usually charge board.
The HECS is not paid upfront.
Leaving the $130k as about two years GA wages or one year as a jet FO. Not a bad deal. Qualify by 25 and you can look forward to 30-35 years of reasonable income, your lifestyle choice is up to you.


You lost me at “mum and dad”

[Gnadenburg]

Two words ENTRY BARRIER

You are a barrel of laughs. NOTHING is a given, only death and taxes. I may not wake up tomorrow, or an asteroid could destroy the earth but on the balance of probabilities you would have a reasonable chance of a thirty year career, starting at 25, moving companies or countries, for an investment of $130k

No need to get agitated or abusive with folks contributing to the discussion. I’d suggest your clear inference was an investment that secures a future as a cadet pilot at QF. So my points valid. QF has been blessed by favoured sentiment and circumstances which are no given in the future. Gloomy? Yes. But when I started out my applications included TAA, Ansett, QF and Cathay. This before a pilots dispute and by the time I left Australia pilots were paying for endorsements and wages had deteriorated significantly from the original incumbents.

Cadet pilots I flew with abroad, lost their livelihoods and were professionally vulnerable. However, many were also highly educated outside of aviation and have moved on having seen their pay halved. Perhaps they live for the Great White Hope, a pilot shortage, yet they know from experiences from their own sausage factory license production and dumbing down of the job, supply and demand is rarely a favourable equation.

I’d suggest you are a mug to go into this game one dimensionally ( as a cadet ) thinking of 25 years plus of “reasonable” wages. My first wage as an airline co-pilot adjusted to inflation is today a command wage in an LCC. The industrial landscape here seems grim.

Starting out now as a cadet pilot? Develop your professional mobility as early as you can is my advice.

[Flyonthewall2020]

No need to get agitated or abusive with folks contributing to the discussion. I’d suggest your clear inference was an investment that secures a future as a cadet pilot at QF.

Starting out now as a cadet pilot? Develop your professional mobility as early as you can is my advice.

Us students at the academy are not cadets but simpily enter the QFPP upon graduation. Any tips/insights into getting into Qlink or insights into the QFPP?

Seems to just be hour building in GA up north or instructing if you can find an operator to take you on with ~200TT. Not many opportunities at the moment with many graduates unemployed in the industry. There has been talk of the academy trying to get GA partners to offer us jobs but nothing confirmed.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

I feel really sorry for you if you believe that.


No need mate. It is very liberating when you realise that you no longer need to stay beholden to one or two greed driven ingrates. There is infinitely more to life than flying and a further infinity to life outside of Australian airline flying.

[neville_nobody]

There has been talk of the academy trying to get GA partners to offer us jobs but nothing confirmed.

Or how about you go out there and find your own job like everybody else. The last thing the industry needs is entry level jobs blocked by the Qantas pilot academy.

[Brakerider]

Anyone got start dates yet from the latest round of recruitment?

[Ladloy]

Anyone got start dates yet from the latest round of recruitment?
I don't have an app in but I have a few friends who are waiting for correspondence after completing their sim assessment. It has been a month since they completed it. My understanding is that they still have pilots on the 2018 hold file and a huge training bottleneck.

[tossbag]

There has been talk of the academy trying to get GA partners to offer us jobs but nothing confirmed.

oh em gee..........

GA partners? Who would they be?

[Icarus2001]

Seems to just be hour building in GA up north or instructing if you can find an operator to take you on with ~200TT. Not many opportunities at the moment with many graduates unemployed in the industry.

Yes, it has been this way in Australia for about 45 years or so. Get your CPL then pack your car and head off to find a job.

[AQIS Boigu]

oh em gee..........

GA partners? Who would they be?

P2F again?!

This time on a 206

[Abroad145]

oh em gee..........

GA partners? Who would they be?
Pearl Aviation used to stick Qantas Cadets in the right seat of their Metros. Qantas would pay the salary, Pearl got a free pilot for 12 months.
Plenty of turboprop operators would put their hand up for a free pilot.

[Bringanotherengine]

Anyone have any idea when applications will open again for qf mainline ?

[Jetdream]

Being a few months into interviewing now, anyone know how long this will go on for?
Will they still be interviewing candidates towards the end of the year?

[morno]

Apparently they had around 400 to interview from the round earlier this year. Could be a while until they need to reopen applications.

[aseriesofleftturns]

Still haven't interviewed (or contacted) any internals at all, so to back-up morno's sentiment, will be a fair while until applications re-open you'd assume.

[Jetdream]

Many still waiting on any word of interviews after completing online testing?

[Brakerider]

A lot of guys have already received verbal offers of employment and course start dates from this round. Assessments will continue for 12 months however.

I heard A big course in October?

[mates rates]

Qantas having been sticking cadets into GA since the 1960’s.Nothing new there,just taking GA jobs and giving them to pilots who already have a job!!

[aseriesofleftturns]

Number of guys now having to choose between mainline and Atlas, with many going the latter. As many as 6 new starters pulled out of the last QF ground school apparently.

Guessing the issue with the US/no confirmed commute would be having a young family with little/no support. Otherwise, seemingly a no brainer.

[NOT PHASED]

Any clue what this might mean for people on the hold file from 2018 who still haven’t received a start date?

[morno]

Any clue what this might mean for people on the hold file from 2018 who still haven’t received a start date?

I believe everyone who was on the existing hold file has already been offered a start date.

[aussieflyboy]

I believe everyone who was on the existing hold file has already been offered a start date.

This is completely incorrect.

[Dempster]

I believe everyone who was on the existing hold file has already been offered a start date.
I can confirm that’s incorrect. I still know many internals and externals from the 2018 hold file with no start dates

[aseriesofleftturns]

I can confirm that’s incorrect. I still know many internals and externals from the 2018 hold file with no start dates

Likewise, so definitely not true. A number of externals however, who applied in March, have been given start dates from October onwards.

[SixDemonBag]

Great story

[morno]

This is completely incorrect.

Sorry, let me rephrase that. From what a mate told me, I believe all EXTERNALS on the hold file have been given dates. If there are still externals who haven’t heard anything, probably worth getting in touch again. I can’t imagine why they would overlook them in favour of recent candidates.

Internals I imagine unfortunately won’t be moving far while you’re all understaffed.

[aseriesofleftturns]

Saab approached Rex 10 years ago with the option to start a manufacturing a Saab 340C but the supreme leader laughed in their faces with the notion that a second hand model B can be snatched up from the US for 1 million. The reality is now that sure, the current 340s could go on for another decade, but is maintenance starting to eat into their bottom line?

Guard

Edit: 10 characters

[Ladloy]

Guard

Edit: 10 characters
Meow! I feel like a bit of noob.
Relevant to this thread, some externals who had a type/base preference have been put to the back of the queue which may be the reason for a delayed start date. The new hold file holders have been given dates as early as August

[TimmyTee]

Sorry, let me rephrase that. From what a mate told me, I believe all EXTERNALS on the hold file have been given dates. If there are still externals who haven’t heard anything, probably worth getting in touch again. I can’t imagine why they would overlook them in favour of recent candidates.

Internals I imagine unfortunately won’t be moving far while you’re all understaffed.

shows how beneficial it is being at a Qantas subsidiary If the goal is mainline

[SDN Superstar]

shows how beneficial it is being at a Qantas subsidiary If the goal is mainline

Until all of the guys in the cheap seats realise what’s going on (probably did that a few months after the ‘we’ll get to you soon’ email) they will start resigning and leaving for Atlas, Spirit, Uppercumba Airways ect…

Mainline progression was always about dangling a carrot so pilots stayed. Once people start leaving they will start giving internals interview…

After months of Stand down and pay freezes, hiring externals over internals is another slap in the face to employees…

[NOT PHASED]

I can confirm that there are still 2018 externals happy to take on any base awaiting an official offer of employment. I was also verbally given position expectations back in 2019 and also Feb 22, still waiting, until you have an official offer don’t get excited and even then after the last few years I would still be dubious. It’s been a tough few years and it’s not behind us yet.

[aussiepilot]

I understand that Qantas has been offering PER 787 and SYD A330 to new hire SO.
Would anyone be willing to share recent rosters, or indicative patterns (tour lengths, days off, standby days) to help get an understanding of the difference between the types/bases?
Thanks in advance.

[stillcallozhome]

I understand that Qantas has been offering PER 787 and SYD A330 to new hire SO.
Would anyone be willing to share recent rosters, or indicative patterns (tour lengths, days off, standby days) to help get an understanding of the difference between the types/bases?
Thanks in advance.

Pretty sure you don’t get a choice. They will just assign you.

[Going Nowhere]

Pretty sure you don’t get a choice. They will just assign you.

Recent Internals were given the choice.

[stillcallozhome]

Recent Internals were given the choice.

As in submit a preference?

[aussiepilot]

Pretty sure you don’t get a choice. They will just assign you.
I'm aware of externals being offered a choice, and have heard that the HR team are saying the same during interviews.

[Brakerider]

I'm aware of externals being offered a choice, and have heard that the HR team are saying the same during interviews.


HR will literally say anything. Their KPI is bums on seats. These people are dishonest and untrustworthy.

[aussiepilot]

HR will literally say anything. Their KPI is bums on seats. These people are dishonest and untrustworthy.
Not sure what the benefit would be in lying. You'd find out pretty quick if they didn't offer a choice...

[Going Nowhere]

As in submit a preference?

As in, "your start date is X, do you want SYD or PER?"

[morno]

As in “you can have A330 Sydney starting on X date, or 787 Perth starting on Y date, which would you prefer”

[stillcallozhome]

As in, "your start date is X, do you want SYD or PER?"

As in “You can’t bid for a particular aircraft or base, however, if you would like to put a preference for 787 Perth, we will do our best to accommodate”. Then, after you select Perth, your letter will state “congratulations, you are on 330 Syd”. That kind of preference. 🤣

Heard of that in the past but if it’s changed for the better, that’s great news!

[HappyBandit]

The general rule should be to take the first available start date. Seniority is very important!
B787 bases are PER, MEL, SYD, and BNE. Destinations YVR, LHR, LAX, FCO, DFW. Most patterns 6-9 days.
A330 S/O bases are SYD and BNE. Destinations SIN, MNL, LAX, HNL, DEL, BKK. Usually 3-6 day trips.
B737 F/O SYD or MEL probably available very soon after joining.
The mix of flying for each aircraft type and base is likely to change!
B787 base pay is higher for the first 18 months, then the A330 base pay is higher, with the gap significantly widening the longer one remains as an S/O.

Great info thanks

[aussiepilot]

The general rule should be to take the first available start date. Seniority is very important!
B787 bases are PER, MEL, SYD, and BNE. Destinations YVR, LHR, LAX, FCO, DFW. Most patterns 6-9 days.
A330 S/O bases are SYD and BNE. Destinations SIN, MNL, LAX, HNL, DEL, BKK. Usually 3-6 day trips.
B737 F/O SYD or MEL probably available very soon after joining.
The mix of flying for each aircraft type and base is likely to change!
B787 base pay is higher for the first 18 months, then the A330 base pay is higher, with the gap significantly widening the longer one remains as an S/O.
mig3, thanks for the detailed response.
Around how many days off between trips, and standby days is the norm?

[Callsign Please]

B737 F/O SYD or MEL probably available very soon after joining.
The mix of flying for each aircraft type and base is likely to change!
B787 base pay is higher for the first 18 months, then the A330 base pay is higher, with the gap significantly widening the longer one remains as an S/O.
Thanks for a great summary.

What would a reasonable timeframe for LH FO be, will going straight to SH help or hinder?

[DashTrash.]

Thanks for a great summary.

What would a reasonable timeframe for LH FO be, will going straight to SH help or hinder?

LH FO previously around 10+ yrs. And going to SH has no impact whatsoever, movement is determined by your seniority alone.

be warned going to SH early means you cannot go back to LH unless it’s as an FO, (back bid not withstanding) this means you might be stuck in short haul for more than a decade!

[dr dre]

LH FO previously around 10+ yrs. And going to SH has no impact whatsoever, movement is determined by your seniority alone.

be warned going to SH early means you cannot go back to LH unless it’s as an FO, (back bid not withstanding) this means you might be stuck in short haul for more than a decade!

"Stuck" in SH? With new hires on the 787/330/350 they would be getting paid less than a SH FO. The only ones who wouldn't would be senior A380 SOs and the ones who can be senior enough (and I'm talking the ones more senior than 330 FO) to write their own roster otherwise you'll be junior for a long time. The A380 has to have a limited future, so by the time you'd be in company long enough to reap the rewards of being a senior 380 SO the fleet would be close to retirement.

T
What would a reasonable timeframe for LH FO be, will going straight to SH help or hinder?

Potentially waiting an extended period to make it to LH FO would mean a lot of time out of a control seat, you'll probably find the transition easier if you went to SH and got a lot more hands on sectors rather than remaining as an SO until you could get to the RHS.

[DashTrash.]

"Stuck" in SH? With new hires on the 787/330/350 they would be getting paid less than a SH FO. The only ones who wouldn't would be senior A380 SOs and the ones who can be senior enough (and I'm talking the ones more senior than 330 FO) to write their own roster otherwise you'll be junior for a long time. The A380 has to have a limited future, so by the time you'd be in company long enough to reap the rewards of being a senior 380 SO the fleet would be close to retirement.

Potentially waiting an extended period to make it to LH FO would mean a lot of time out of a control seat, you'll probably find the transition easier if you went to SH and got a lot more hands on sectors rather than remaining as an SO until you could get to the RHS.

DR DRE. I don’t not disagree with what you have said. However I would add 2c to the above.

Firstly, whilst the 737 FO does make more per hour than a330/787 SO at present and you are in a control seat.

Most guys n girls coming into the operation already have a wealth of experience and for most, this is not their first jet.

There is a swap of priorities for some to pursue quality of life over renumeration.

The way I’d describe it, is that SH FOs are paid around 20% more to do twice as much work. Now for myself as a LH SO, I enjoy the extra time off to pursue other hobbies and business. This is just me and your own experience might be different. But with the hours I’m currently doing I’m earning the same amount as SH FO and scratching a fraction of the work.

DT

[AQIS Boigu]

Could someone explain a junior SH roster out of SYD/MEL (days off, mainly turn rounds or long trips?)

Thank you

[Chad Gates]

Seniority rotates in SH. So a junior roster sucks. All golden triangle. Many low density days, or reasonable density but 4 SYD-MEL returns etc….. working 18 days (that’s the max in a 28 day roster) but 3 will be reserves, so you may get 3 extra days off, or you may not. once you move up to around half way, life improves remarkably. Now getting overnights in nice places. 5-6 hours density per day and working 12-14 days for the roster. when you reach the lofty hieghts in your last 4 or 5 BP near the top, you are doing 9-11 days of work with high density PER/DRW/BRM/NAN returns. But you have so many days off, that you can pick up a bit of open time and work 12-14 for a much higher credit. Then you fall back to the bottom, and it starts again. The rotation takes 15 BId Periods (28 day Long)

PS. It gets better every BP you move up the list, so it sucks at the bottom, but each subsequent BP sucks a bit less than the previous one, until it doesn’t suck anymore. And it is pretty good more than it sucks during the whole rotation. That’s my experience anyway.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Could someone explain a junior SH roster out of SYD/MEL (days off, mainly turn rounds or long trips?)

Thank you

SH has rotating seniority - basically you work your way up the list over the year or so and then drop back to the bottom.
The highest density trips are popular as it means you can work less days per month for your required hours by doing long dense days of flying.
You could have 19 days off out of 28 when senior or about 9 days off when “junior”, give it take depending on hours.

Mostly day trips though the mix of flying can and does change. Overnights mostly only a couple of days long - depends on the base.

[cloudsurfng]

If you’re looking for info on SH SYD and MEL, then I assume you would want LH SYD or MEL.

currently LH FO on the 330 in the most junior base (MEL) is over 10 years.

don’t rush to the 737. There’s plenty of time to enjoy the lifestyle LH offers. Jump over about 3-4 years before LH FO if you really want to. Remember though the 737 is a dying fleet now, the flying will look very different in a few years, and no one really knows what the 321 will look like yet.

I came early, I’ve been here a long time, if I had my time again Id’ve stayed LH SO about another 5 years.

[On Guard]

Can someone advise me if I need to download all the pinstripe notes or just 2022. There’s a lot of them.
Thanks.

[morno]

I personally don’t think you need to download anything. Just go and do it.

[Cap'n Bunghole]

The 2022 notes are spot on in my experience (two weeks ago). Read the others if you have time. It may get you to study something that you hadn't thought of.

Good luck!


Cap'n

[b787q300]

What’s the approx time to command in SH and LH for a new hire today?

[dr dre]

What’s the approx time to command in SH and LH for a new hire today?

Well no one can tell you exactly how long a command will be for someone starting today. Presently most junior SH is 17-22 years dependent on base, LH 23 years. However you have to factor in almost 9 years of zero recruitment (09-16 and 20-22) in there.

At one point just prior to the GFC hitting the most junior SH commands went about 9-10 years, which would be consistent with time to command with constant recruitment.

A large demographic retirement shift will start from 2025 onwards.

[HappyBandit]

A large number of internals have received emails for interviews etc, but have not received one yet. Should I read anything into this?
thanks

[RealSatoshi]

Large number of very experienced externals have also received nothing yet, while QF has apparently also been targeting Air NZ Turboprop pilots (as explained by one himself)...read nothing into it as the entire system does not make sense :zzz:

[startno1]

Has the focus gone to internals now? Or will they still be interviewing externals throughout?

[morno]

Large number of very experienced externals have also received nothing yet, while QF has apparently also been targeting Air NZ Turboprop pilots (as explained by one himself)...read nothing into it as the entire system does not make sense :zzz:

I don’t think they’re targeting any one particular group. Just that there was a massive pile of applications in the first place, so there’s likely to be a pretty broad cross section of pilots.

[dr dre]

Large number of very experienced externals have also received nothing yet, while QF has apparently also been targeting Air NZ Turboprop pilots (as explained by one himself)...read nothing into it as the entire system does not make sense :zzz:

They generally don’t “target” one group over another. A number of pilots from one area may have gotten invites to start testing and been vocal about it, creating an impression those from that background are being specifically targeted.

[RealSatoshi]

They generally don’t “target” one group over another. A number of pilots from one area may have gotten invites to start testing and been vocal about it, creating an impression those from that background are being specifically targeted.
The term Roadshow was used...:oh:

[Brakerider]

QF going to NZ on a roadshow to recruit NZ based turboprop pilots, many of whom likely have no interest in living in Australia...
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/238x286/10128363_a193c0e3ac4996af52d45a03abb5d2e0380609d0.jpg

[dr dre]

The only evidence I can find of NZ roadshows were from 2018, and it was for group recruitment so Link and JQ (I’d say these were the main targets of any NZ recruiting drive at the time). Haven’t heard of any roadshows this year.

Last I heard was applications for mainline in this latest round of recruitment have far exceeded the number of positions planned to be available (3-4 times as many) so plenty to choose from without needing to perform roadshows.

[ExtraShot]

Yeah, be aware that ‘the Group’ likes to market a lot of their correspondence nowadays as ‘Qantas’. Quite often a job on Seek or even jobs advertised internally have the mainline company logos and branding, and it’s only when you look at the finer print that you’ll see it’s actually a job for a subsidiary.

Highly likely these roadshows you talk about are for Network or Qantas link or some such?

[RealSatoshi]

Yeah, be aware that ‘the Group’ likes to market a lot of their correspondence nowadays as ‘Qantas’. Quite often a job on Seek or even jobs advertised internally have the mainline company logos and branding, and it’s only when you look at the finer print that you’ll see it’s actually a job for a subsidiary.

Highly likely these roadshows you talk about are for Network or Qantas link or some such?
Not sure really, but the individual was very specific about which type and base was discussed: 787 PER in this instance - Agreed it could be him up-selling himself on the idea, who knows.

We can probably expect the Internal Transfer 'Hopium' machine to start working overtime as they start taking note of just how many group pilots are looking towards the west. Transferring a group pilot requires double the group training capacity of an external employed straight into Mainline, therefore there has always been an incentive to keep the majority right where they are.

At last check the E-3 Atlas Air Wannabes Facebook page had 642 Members.

[WannaBeBiggles]

At last check the E-3 Atlas Air Wannabes Facebook page had 642 Members.

Not to mention there are people from all (pilot) ranks from mainline that have propped up asking for more info in said group, amongst others.

[ZebraFlyer]

Has the focus gone to internals now? Or will they still be interviewing externals throughout?

They updated internals a few days before the Atlas roadshows started which was pretty funny I thought.. first news since applications opened back in February.

[cLeArIcE]

For someone in the group (especially JQ) who might be a 4/5 years from a command or 787FO coming up, is it really worth going to QF now? Sure you'll get treated with a tiny bit of respect (which is way more than you'll ever get at JQ) and you'll get paid more in the same rank and you can say you're a Qantas Pilot. But you'll be joining way down a long seniority list and lucky to ever get a command if you are over 35. Not to mention Joyce's dream of turning QF into JQ with a roo on the tale.

Although I can see the attraction of sitting in the back seat for a few years with no care after getting flogged for years on end and enjoying Life outside of work.

[aussieflyboy]

For someone in the group (especially JQ) who might be a 4/5 years from a command or 787FO coming up, is it really worth going to QF now? Sure you'll get treated with a tiny bit of respect (which is way more than you'll ever get at JQ) and you'll get paid more in the same rank and you can say you're a Qantas Pilot. But you'll be joining way down a long seniority list and lucky to ever get a command if you are over 35. Not to mention Joyce's dream of turning QF into JQ with a roo on the tale.

Although I can see the attraction of sitting in the back seat for a few years with no care after getting flogged for years on end and enjoying Life outside of work.

If you’re a QF Group Jet Captain (except maybe Network) the point where you ‘break even’ is somewhere between 12-18 years. It’s very variable and obviously difficult to calculate. It’s also very personal as you could pay more off your home/personal debt by staying as a Capt which compounds over time as does the extra super your would earn by staying a Capt.

[ScepticalOptomist]

For someone in the group (especially JQ) who might be a 4/5 years from a command or 787FO coming up, is it really worth going to QF now? Sure you'll get treated with a tiny bit of respect (which is way more than you'll ever get at JQ) and you'll get paid more in the same rank and you can say you're a Qantas Pilot. But you'll be joining way down a long seniority list and lucky to ever get a command if you are over 35. Not to mention Joyce's dream of turning QF into JQ with a roo on the tale.

Although I can see the attraction of sitting in the back seat for a few years with no care after getting flogged for years on end and enjoying Life outside of work.

It all comes down to your pay vs lifestyle balance. For some it’s a an easy choice - depends on your motivations?

[ZebraFlyer]

If you’re a QF Group Jet Captain (except maybe Network) the point where you ‘break even’ is somewhere between 12-18 years. It’s very variable and obviously difficult to calculate. It’s also very personal as you could pay more off your home/personal debt by staying as a Capt which compounds over time as does the extra super your would earn by staying a Capt.

You have to balance the conditions and career opportunities with the pay too, though. It'd be an 'easier' 12-18 working years but sacrifice a bit of pay to do so.
I'd probs rather be an SO doing sweet eff all earning 150+ a year zipping around the world staying in lovely hotels but with zero 'job' satisfaction than be a Captain working hard for 220+ hoping that the hotel and transport has been booked as being optimised (i.e., more overnights) is the new normal.. and I probably won't see a widebody again..

QF LH FO is legit the dream job. I wouldn't see that for 15+ years though personally so trying to scratch that itch elsewhere..

[Jimsaviation]

If you’re a QF Group Jet Captain (except maybe Network) the point where you ‘break even’ is somewhere between 12-18 years. It’s very variable and obviously difficult to calculate. It’s also very personal as you could pay more off your home/personal debt by staying as a Capt which compounds over time as does the extra super your would earn by staying a Capt.
I don't think 12-18 years is an accurate assessment. A short-haul FO will earn more than a Captain at NJS while still maintaining life at home simply because of the type of flying. Good luck getting into overtime by bouncing between MEL and CBR on the 717. I have seen rosters of 140 hours of duty for base salary at NJS...no thank you. Depending on when a command comes about at mainline, the career earnings will significantly diverge at that point. Not to mention the QOL in the meantime. If you have at least 20 years left, going to mainline would be a no-brainer, but each to their own.

[aussiepilot]

Could someone please confirm that the Qantas Long Haul EBA Clause 32.7 (new hire SO lower pay) hasn't taken effect yet?
When does it start?

Thanks

[dr dre]

Could someone please confirm that the Qantas Long Haul EBA Clause 32.7 (new hire SO lower pay) hasn't taken effect yet?
When does it start?

Thanks

Comes into effect once they start recruiting into the 330/350SFF category for SOs. Hasn’t happened yet, and the 350 isn’t coming for 3 more years so could still have some substantial recruitment without the new category coming in, but that doesn’t preclude the company from introducing it in the interim anytime they see fit to.

[ZebraFlyer]

Could someone please confirm that the Qantas Long Haul EBA Clause 32.7 (new hire SO lower pay) hasn't taken effect yet?
When does it start?

Thanks
Have it on good authority it won't be occurring till they actually have a date set for the first aircraft arrival.

[Lapon]

I don't think 12-18 years is an accurate assessment. A short-haul FO will earn more than a Captain at NJS while still maintaining life at home simply because of the type of flying. Good luck getting into overtime by bouncing between MEL and CBR on the 717. I have seen rosters of 140 hours of duty for base salary at NJS...no thank you. Depending on when a command comes about at mainline, the career earnings will significantly diverge at that point. Not to mention the QOL in the meantime. If you have at least 20 years left, going to mainline would be a no-brainer, but each to their own.

What is the short haul FO base pay? Genuine question.
I only ever get answers of what could be earnt with various inclusions and assumptions, but never bare bones - I dont want to work hard - basic base pay.

[aussieflyboy]

What is the short haul FO base pay? Genuine question.
I only ever get answers of what could be earnt with various inclusions and assumptions, but never bare bones - I dont want to work hard - basic base pay.

Its generally between 150 - 190 depending on how much you work. Yes some make more, but they have no life. An NJS Capt is on $199k and their goal is to work as little as possible (overtime threshold is high). Average flight hours for them is around 55-60 per month.

[NOT PHASED]

Also curious on how much you earn on initial employment, not only as an SO but also while in training

[Fujiroll76]

Also curious on how much you earn on initial employment, not only as an SO but also while in training

787/330 SO’s are earning anywhere between 160-200k at the moment.

Initial training expect 55-60k and at the current rate it’s about 6 months until check out.

[aussieflyboy]

787/330 SO’s are earning anywhere between 160-200k at the moment.

Initial training expect 55-60k and at the current rate it’s about 6 months until check out.

Is this base or are you including allowances? Obviously if your overseas you need to spend money.

[transition_alt]

787/330 SO’s are earning anywhere between 160-200k at the moment.

Initial training expect 55-60k and at the current rate it’s about 6 months until check out.

Are you referring to 60k for the 6 months? Or an equivalent of 60k/year training salary?

[aussiepilot]

$8,049.64 per 56 day bid period - straight from the EBA

~$52,500 per year

[NOT PHASED]

Thanks, and if you’re training away from your home base are there allowances on top of this?

[Brakerider]

Thanks, and if you’re training away from your home base are there allowances on top of this?

Yes - keep in mind 80% of next years recruitment is forecast SYD 330.

[Fujiroll76]

Is this base or are you including allowances? Obviously if your overseas you need to spend money.

$160k is base.
Bare in mind we are all working 175hrs divisors (30hrs above MGH)

[Lapon]

$160k is base.
Bare in mind we are all working 175hrs divisors (30hrs above MGH)

Is 30hrs above MGH the same as 30 hours overtime in other EBA currencies?

[Fujiroll76]

Is 30hrs above MGH the same as 30 hours overtime in other EBA currencies?

Its 30hrs at the hourly rate. Overtime comes into play when assigned a trip that takes you over divisor +5hrs.

[ockett]

Hi All,

Currently in HS pursuing an RAAus RPC (0.7hrs solo), and have a few questions:

1. Have any QGPA graduates made it to Q-link yet? If not, when can that expect to start?
2. After finishing my RPC, is it worth converting it to a CASA RPL just for the purposes of applying to the academy (as they may prefer a CASA license)?
3. If you complete an aviation degree program with a QFPP school, and do the practical flying on the weekend with a non-integrated school, can you still be considered for the QFPP

Now before you all start complaining about cadet programs, I will say that I am fully aware of the traditional process (going up north ect..), and will do that if I am not accepted to a cadet program. Just curious about options to expedite the process.

Thanks

[Thumb War]

Hi All,

Currently in HS pursuing an RAAus RPC (0.7hrs solo), and have a few questions:

1. Have any QGPA graduates made it to Q-link yet? If not, when can that expect to start?
2. After finishing my RPC, is it worth converting it to a CASA RPL just for the purposes of applying to the academy (as they may prefer a CASA license)?
3. If you complete an aviation degree program with a QFPP school, and do the practical flying on the weekend with a non-integrated school, can you still be considered for the QFPP

Now before you all start complaining about cadet programs, I will say that I am fully aware of the traditional process (going up north ect..), and will do that if I am not accepted to a cadet program. Just curious about options to expedite the process.

Thanks

The problem with the program you’re talking about is that as I understand it, it’s not a cadet program at all. Whether you like them or hate them a traditional cadet program would give the cadet a leg up and generally seniority from an early age.

By the sounds of the academy program you pay over market rate to go to a Qantas branded school, but it doesn’t gain you an advantage. If you do happen to get into a subsidiary, you’ll then have the often discussed issues of getting released by the subsidiary should you pass selection by mainline.

Getting your 1500 hours and heading over to the states is your best bet, once you have experience you can apply to mainline directly, and if that doesn’t pan out or your plans change you have started on the best alternative path (some would say it’s a better path than any offered in Australia)

[Jc31]

[QUOTE=ockett;11275398]Hi All,

Currently in HS pursuing an RAAus RPC (0.7hrs solo), /QUOTE]

For the benefit of all airline pilots, please do not consider applying to any airline with (regardless of cadetships etc) only "0.7 solo so far". I say this with the best of intentions and for the betterment of the industry

what a w**ker. Guys just starting out hoping to get info from people in the industry and gets a response like that. I think half of the problem with the industry is people like you.

[Fujiroll76]

The best way to get a gig for Qantas is to not be employed by Qantas (subsidies) proven time and time again.

Just ask the poor bastards who interviewed back in 2018 and have only just started. Understanding there was a COVID blackout but that didn’t help their seniority get blasted 300 spots.

Not to mention those who didn’t even get a look in.

[engine out]

“ If you complete an aviation degree program with a QFPP school, and do the practical flying on the weekend with a non-integrated school, can you still be considered for the QFPP”

Not sure if this is an option. I believe the QFPP schools are all associated with universities and require you to go through their flying school which will all be integrated (I could be wrong

“Getting your 1500 hours and heading over to the states is your best bet”

This is a good theory however if you have only just started training it is probably at least a three+ year prospect and who knows if Visas will still be available by then.

[hillbillybob]

Hi All,

Currently in HS pursuing an RAAus RPC (0.7hrs solo), and have a few questions:

1. Have any QGPA graduates made it to Q-link yet? If not, when can that expect to start?


Thanks

yes, about 6 months ago

[Bootstrap1]

Are they recruiting engineers? Rumours are popping up that Joyce is going to sell off engineering and outsource all of their work. Because that would be great news to the flying public, not too mention on time performance.

[HappyBandit]

The best way to get a gig for Qantas is to not be employed by Qantas (subsidies) proven time and time again.

Just ask the poor bastards who interviewed back in 2018 and have only just started. Understanding there was a COVID blackout but that didn’t help their seniority get blasted 300 spots.

Not to mention those who didn’t even get a look in.

Totally agree...being locked in a subsidiary leads to life in that subsidiary. Not to say you cant progress but they make it an incredibly arduous and frustrating experience. There is very little recognition. I can understand why, however theyre thinking of the company and not much of their staff.

[neville_nobody]

The quickest way has always been work for a non-aligned airline then apply to QF.

[SixDemonBag]

Seems like every second person I fly with is ex qlink

[dr dre]

Are they recruiting engineers? Rumours are popping up that Joyce is going to sell off engineering and outsource all of their work. Because that would be great news to the flying public, not too mention on time performance.

Outsourcing positions that require relatively low levels of training, like baggage handling and catering, was done on the premise that it would be fairly simple for a contractor to quickly train up replacements for previous staff. Also seeing this with cabin crew, but on a more gradual long term scale, with premium legacy conditions becoming casualised temporary positions, and CC can be trained in several weeks with no formal qualifications so not that difficult.

Engineers (and pilots) different altogether. I’m not too sure about the exact requirements for AME and then LAME but when you need things like tertiary education, CASA licensing, apprenticeships, years of experience before upgrading etc you can’t exactly expect an outsourcing provider to come up with a large number of qualified staff in a short time frame, one that would be needed if you were suddenly going to outsource engineering work.

So I’d say the chance of having engineering jobs outsourced would be low, but probably subject to downward pressure on conditions in other areas like EBA negotiations.

[HappyBandit]

Seems like every second person I fly with is ex qlink
I dare you to ask them how long it took to have the cuffs removed.

[On Guard]

Hi

Just doing some study. Alternate requirements, can you confirm the weather applicable is eta at dest +\- 30 mins. Recalled in the past it was different? I got this from p121 MOS section 4

[On Guard]

Purely a TAF. If your eta is 1200z. Confirm you take account weather 1130-1230?

[mmm345]

Depends the nature of the weather. If it is removing an operational requiremnt ( ie holding fuel or alternate), it ceases 30 min after the end of its time frame ( ie if the bad weather stopped at 0200, the requirement is there until 0230).

If it is creating an operational requirement ( ie the weather was good but will soon turn to ****), the requirement comes in 30 min before its forecast time. For example if there was a FM 0200 of bad weather below alternate minima, the requirement is applicable and must be accounted for from 0130.

However, consider an example when the weather was below alternate minima and your ETA at the AD is 0210z, however a FM period from 0200z lifted the weather above the alternate minima. Since it is removing an operational requirement, the buffer period pushes this requirement out until 0230z. However, you dont need to plan an alternate even though weather is below minima, you just need holding fuel until the requirement is removed, ie 20 min.

[On Guard]

Depends the nature of the weather. If it is removing an operational requiremnt ( ie holding fuel or alternate), it ceases 30 min after the end of its time frame ( ie if the bad weather stopped at 0200, the requirement is there until 0230).

If it is creating an operational requirement ( ie the weather was good but will soon turn to ****), the requirement comes in 30 min before its forecast time. For example if there was a FM 0200 of bad weather below alternate minima, the requirement is applicable and must be accounted for from 0130.

However, consider an example when the weather was below alternate minima and your ETA at the AD is 0210z, however a FM period from 0200z lifted the weather above the alternate minima. Since it is removing an operational requirement, the buffer period pushes this requirement out until 0230z. However, you dont need to plan an alternate even though weather is below minima, you just need holding fuel until the requirement is removed, ie 20 min.

Thanks. So yes it looks like weather buffers are now 30/30. I thought they used to be 60/60? So if your eta is 1200 and FM 1245 creates an op requirement then we don’t need to take this into account.

Also so the same FM in a TAF3, how does this work? My reading says that the eta buffer is -30 and +60 and if the taf3 has no wx in this period then no alt required?

Thanks in advance.

[mmm345]

Thanks. So yes it looks like weather buffers are now 30/30. I thought they used to be 60/60? So if your eta is 1200 and FM 1245 creates an op requirement then we don’t need to take this into account.

Also so the same FM in a TAF3, how does this work? My reading says that the eta buffer is -30 and +60 and if the taf3 has no wx in this period then no alt required?

Thanks in advance.

Yes if your ETA was 1200 and the FM was from 1245 it would be no factor,

The reference material for TAF3 is ENR 1.1-73.

Basically if the AD has a TAF3 the first 3 hours of the TAF are treated differently. Any PROB forecast of visibility reductions below the alternate minimima or the PROB presence of TS doesnt require holding or ALT fuel ( however there normal presence absent of any PROB still requires alternate/holding). Additionally the 30 min buffers for FM BCMG are not applicable. So if there is a FM02z of bad weather and your ETA is 0159z, you legally dont require holding/alternate ( if you are still in the first 3 hours of the TAF3 validity)

[On Guard]

Yes if your ETA was 1200 and the FM was from 1245 it would be no factor,

The reference material for TAF3 is ENR 1.1-73.

Basically if the AD has a TAF3 the first 3 hours of the TAF are treated differently. Any PROB forecast of visibility reductions below the alternate minimima or the PROB presence of TS doesnt require holding or ALT fuel ( however there normal presence absent of any PROB still requires alternate/holding). Additionally the 30 min buffers for FM BCMG are not applicable. So if there is a FM02z of bad weather and your ETA is 0159z, you legally dont require holding/alternate ( if you are still in the first 3 hours of the TAF3 validity)

ok great. And the last thing confusing me is from p121 MOS section 4.05. It says the estimated time of use of a destination is eta +\- 30 mins. So back to my original example, my eta is 1200, then the time of use is 1130-1230. So then I think a FM at 1245 would apply, it would have to be 1301 to not apply?

Thoughts?

[mmm345]

ok great. And the last thing confusing me is from p121 MOS section 4.05. It says the estimated time of use of a destination is eta +\- 30 mins. So back to my original example, my eta is 1200, then the time of use is 1130-1230. So then I think a FM at 1245 would apply, it would have to be 1301 to not apply?

Thoughts?
Im not too familiar with the P121 notion of estimated time of use sorry, maybe someone with more familiarity might have a better idea of its signficance.

[AviatoR21]

If you want a job with Qantas make sure you know how to read and decipher a TAF3. :bored:

[On Guard]

If you want a job with Qantas make sure you know how to read and decipher a TAF3. :bored:

Thanks. TTF was in place last I was in aus hence getting my head around this. Can you confirm essentially TAF3 is a TTF, valid for 3 hrs from issue, reissued every 3 hrs. Buffers do not apply in the taf3 period and was it prob 30 and 40 ignored?

thanks

[Brakerider]

Thanks. TTF was in place last I was in aus hence getting my head around this. Can you confirm essentially TAF3 is a TTF, valid for 3 hrs from issue, reissued every 3 hrs. Buffers do not apply in the taf3 period and was it prob 30 and 40 ignored?

thanks

no disrespect man but this isn’t the bob tait forum…maybe go confirm by opening the AIP like everyone else

[KAPAC]

If you want a job with Qantas make sure you know how to read and decipher a TAF3. :bored:

Qantas recruiter reading this will know everyone knows their TAF3 requirements. What fuel would you carry if your arriving 5 mins after alternate requirement is lifted at planning stage ?

[Australopithecus]

That’s easy. Flight plan fuel plus one hour, same as always. 😎

[On Guard]

no disrespect man but this isn’t the bob tait forum…maybe go confirm by opening the AIP like everyone else

I have, and p121MOS s4 which I mention above. As usual it is clear as mud hence my asking here.

[cloudsurfng]

Ooo that’s a tough one. Alternate plus 1.0 for AD?

[AviatoR21]

I was being sarcastic fellas! How does a discussion on TAF3’s have anything to do with Qantas recruitment….

[On Guard]

I was being sarcastic fellas! How does a discussion on TAF3’s have anything to do with Qantas recruitment….

It’s an interview question

[aussieflyboy]

If you are unsure of an interview question just tell them you’ll study while you spend 4+ years on hold after spending a couple of grand on getting a Qantas medical just to be on the hold…

[HappyBandit]

I've got a question about alternates...

Oh oops...wrong page...disregard.

Whilst I'm here though, anyone know what bases are likely? I'm assuming 330s will be the prime type in the immediate future?

[Sparrows.]

Whilst I'm here though, anyone know what bases are likely? I'm assuming 330s will be the prime type in the immediate future?

Last I heard approximately 80% going to 330 due to 787 training pipeline being a little full.

330 only has Syd and Bne as SO bases. Traditionally everyone has been hired into Sydney then bidded to transfer to Brissy. But just prior to the US flying, all Sydney SO’s that wanted Brissy got it.

So I guess in the foreseeable future it will just depend on what base needs numbers and if anyone is bidding for the other. Sydney would be most likely, at a guess, due to the larger amount of flying (and new destinations coming) and possibility of Brisbane losing flying.

[dr dre]

Plus with the amount of recruitment mooted over the next few years it won’t be too long before a transfer to your favoured locale is available.

[ruddegar]

Last I heard approximately 80% going to 330 due to 787 training pipeline being a little full.

330 only has Syd and Bne as SO bases. Traditionally everyone has been hired into Sydney then bidded to transfer to Brissy. But just prior to the US flying, all Sydney SO’s that wanted Brissy got it.

So I guess in the foreseeable future it will just depend on what base needs numbers and if anyone is bidding for the other. Sydney would be most likely, at a guess, due to the larger amount of flying (and new destinations coming) and possibility of Brisbane losing flying.

Do you have any idea how they select the allocations? If you live in Perth already would you be more likely to be offered 787 than 330?

[Jetsbest]

I’ve heard from several folks that one’s preference is sought at the final interview, with no promises made. The typical courteous/diplomatic response goes along these lines;
”Thanks for asking. I’m keen to join Qantas asap but, if there were to be a choice, I’d say that my family’s location near (eg Sydney) would make that Base more desirable because we wouldn’t need to relocate. However, I would accept any Base I’m offered”.

Occasionally people have deferred their start by up to to few months in order to get their preferred base/type. That choice can have unintended consequences in terms of future extremes in one’s career; promotion choices and demotions/redundancies can/will be determined by time on the seniority list. Additionally, word on the street is that among the immediately pre-Covid joiners, many took several years LWOP (under duress) but have done ok by returning to previous work/locations/better pay & are in no particular hurry to return to QF as junior pilots (S/Os)…. Why would they? Once you’ve got a ‘seniority number’ it lasts forever until retirement.

So many choices!😜

[dr dre]

Take the first start date available, even if it means commuting for a short period of time.

Commuting in long haul isn’t too hard, just add an extra day per roster to fly into base before the trip (can fly back immediately after a trip), usually makes it an extra 2 days per roster away from home. It won’t be long until you get the desired LH base or a SH slot.

As long as you are living in one of the 5 major cities of course. If you’re living in a more regional location then that adds another layer of complexity into the equation, but some do maintain that lifestyle over their careers by choice.

But the benefit of getting on the seniority list ASAP is more important.

[717tech]

Pure curiosity as I'm not involved with QF...
But, say you accept a SYD 330 SO slot, could you then "bid" to change to PER 787 SO? Or are you now committed to the 330 and it's associates bases?
If you can't bid to a different LH fleet, is it a matter of waiting till you have the seniority to bid for 787 FO?

[Lapon]

Pure curiosity as I'm not involved with QF...
But, say you accept a SYD 330 SO slot, could you then "bid" to change to PER 787 SO? Or are you now committed to the 330 and it's associates bases?
If you can't bid to a different LH fleet, is it a matter of waiting till you have the seniority to bid for 787 FO?

I don't work there either but I personally know a new hire who has just done exactly that (but in the reverse to what you mention).
The individual I know had not actually started training for the type however so Ill leave it to someone with more know that I to mention any conditions or limitations with doing so.

[ruddegar]

I’ve heard from several folks that one’s preference is sought at the final interview, with no promises made. The typical courteous/diplomatic response goes along these lines;
”Thanks for asking. I’m keen to join Qantas asap but, if there were to be a choice, I’d say that my family’s location near (eg Sydney) would make that Base more desirable because we wouldn’t need to relocate. However, I would accept any Base I’m offered”.



This is almost word-for-word the response I provided. So hopefully it is considered. Cheers!

[Sparrows.]

Pure curiosity as I'm not involved with QF...
But, say you accept a SYD 330 SO slot, could you then "bid" to change to PER 787 SO? Or are you now committed to the 330 and it's associates bases?
If you can't bid to a different LH fleet, is it a matter of waiting till you have the seniority to bid for 787 FO?

This is the order of what position is considered a promotion, which you have the ability to bid for (provided you aren’t frozen etc). Any sideways movement or demotion is at the company’s discretion. In the current environment, I can’t see any extra training being done, except the over 65’s coming back to the 737.

So in your example of trying to be in Perth, if you were given 330 Syd, I can see 737 FO PER being the only viable/likely bid.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1325x813/ed164fd3_69fb_4fff_833b_685aada62273_149defd2d420ad1413a2303 4a7e7ee4793d5999a.jpeg

[On Guard]

This is the order of what position is considered a promotion, which you have the ability to bid for (provided you aren’t frozen etc). Any sideways movement or demotion is at the company’s discretion. In the current environment, I can’t see any extra training being done, except the over 65’s coming back to the 737.

So in your example of trying to be in Perth, if you were given 330 Syd, I can see 737 FO PER being the only viable/likely bid.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1325x813/ed164fd3_69fb_4fff_833b_685aada62273_149defd2d420ad1413a2303 4a7e7ee4793d5999a.jpeg

What is a350sff so vs a350 so?

Also if you join now on current S/O salary and then bid for a350 in a few years, do you keep the better salary or revert to the a350 sunrise one?

Thanks.

[Sparrows.]

What is a350sff so vs a350 so?

Great question….. No idea.
Probably just future proofing themselves incase the 330 ever disappears and 350’s remain.

Also if you join now on current S/O salary and then bid for a350 in a few years, do you keep the better salary or revert to the a350 sunrise one?

Like anyone joining, I’d suggest reading the EBA cover to cover. Rather than relying upon anonymous people hoping they give correct info.

If anyone joins prior to training commencing for 350 SO’s they are on the old 12 year (4 year for 787) pay scales for their entire career. No matter if they change fleet or seat.
However if you join after anyone has been recruited onto the 350, you will be on the new 4 year pay scales for all SO flying you do, regardless of fleet. Only transitioning to the old 12 year (4 year for 787)pay scales for Skipper and FO slots.

[engine out]

A350 SO, self explanatory. A330/350 SFF SO means dual endorsed to operate both 330 and 350 flights.

[BuzzBox]

What is a350sff so vs a350 so?

SFF = Single Fleet Flying

I can't speak for Qantas, but at some overseas airlines the A350 & A330 are considered a single 'type', with a common type rating. Differences training is required before a pilot is allowed to operate both aircraft.

[Contigo]

Does anyone know the timeframe between doing a sim and finding out if you have been successful in getting onto the hold file?

[A320 Flyer]

Does anyone know the timeframe between doing a sim and finding out if you have been successful in getting onto the hold file?

was about 4-5 weeks a few years back

[Dudeofication]

I have applied for jetstar apprenticeship and have went through to the physcometric test stage however my test wasnt very good prbly around 50%, the deadline closed 4days ago and they have a bonding day on the 29th of august. So do i assume my application has been unsuccessful? As they have not sent any emails since thanks

[das Uber Soldat]

I have applied for jetstar apprenticeship and have went through to the physcometric test stage however my test wasnt very good prbly around 50%, the deadline closed 4days ago and they have a bonding day on the 29th of august. So do i assume my application has been unsuccessful? As they have not sent any emails since thanks
I swear the trolls on here used to have some talent. I miss those days.

[skrtel]

Apparently Tamworth to be new heavy maintenance base for 380 after rubber jungle QF12 debacle…

[Telfer86]

People have told me some got on the HF in a week (or even less) but maybe they had courses to fill quickly
Think 3 or so is the normal ?
Have all QF group internal applicants passed their test deadline yet ? (Network , have some mates there & have been leaving them alone to study)

In future how do people imagine Qantas recruitment will work ?

Open every couple of years (Like pre-Covid) , which would make next recruitment 2024 (last was 2018 before this year), or will they do more of a continuous process

[prickly]

I swear the trolls on here used to have some talent. I miss those days.
Yeah, well as it seems this is your only form of entertainment I guess its important, sad really. Typical of the unfulfilled.

[dr dre]

Open every couple of years (Like pre-Covid) , which would make next recruitment 2024 (last was 2018 before this year), or will they do more of a continuous process

I’m told they have enough applications to process for the next two years at least. Unless something remarkable happens they won’t reopen for new applications before then.

[airbus4lyfe]

It takes ages to get any information or emails back. Could be months, I wouldn't stress. Just be aware the cadetship you are stuck there forever. No PIC, Jetstar contact isn't the best and they work really hard.

[dr dre]

It takes ages to get any information or emails back. Could be months, I wouldn't stress. Just be aware the cadetship you are stuck there forever. No PIC, Jetstar contact isn't the best and they work really hard.

Are you talking about the JQ cadetship? That’s seperate to mainline recruitment.

If you did the JQ program you wouldn’t be stuck there forever, 1500hrs as an Airbus FO and you can apply to mainline, or meet the minimums for QR or EK among others. Some JQ (and QLink) cadets have already done this so hardly “stuck there”. Outside of some Australian airlines no one cares about PIC time for non DE positions, especially if that PIC is on a lightie.

We can argue about the specific of the JQ contract but I think most would agree if that’s your first aviation job you’re not doing too badly.

[Brakerider]

any new SOs have start dates for the rest of the year?

[NOT PHASED]

Yep, they also mentioned that everyone currently available from the 2018 intake should be with the company by November

[D3ltawing]

Yep, they also mentioned that everyone currently available from the 2018 intake should be with the company by November
Definitely not true

[ruddegar]

I’ve been placed on hold file about two weeks back. Been told all ground schools are full for 2022 and to expect a start date in the first 6 months of next year.

[aussieflyboy]

I’ve been placed on hold file about two weeks back. Been told all ground schools are full for 2022 and to expect a start date in the first 6 months of next year.

That’s QF HR speak for 1- 4 years…

[bafanguy]

I don't normally comment in this thread since I don't know anything about QANTAS' hiring practices (other than it seems to be a tough nut to crack) but an interesting tidbit came my way so I'll toss it out here:

Someone sent me recent pilot attrition data from Endeavor Airlines, Delta's wholly-owned regional. It comes from EDV's ALPA arm showing where the 60 pilots they lost in August went. The interesting variation on a theme was that one of that 60 went to QANTAS.

I am comfortable accepting this info as accurate since it came from ALPA. But I have no way to learn of the specifics of this person who went to QANTAS. To my knowledge, EDV never hired E3s so I'd have to guess how this person made the jump.

My uneducated guesses are: dual citizenship, married an Aussie, then I'm out of guesses. Just an interesting bit of info.

[Australopithecus]

Just out of curiosity did the other 59 flow to Delta? What would be EDV's total numbers? 2500 or so?

[Bleve]

… one of that 60 went to QANTAS.

My money’s on married an Aussie.

[bafanguy]

Just out of curiosity did the other 59 flow to Delta? What would be EDV's total numbers? 2500 or so?

23 went to Delta (20 via flow and 3 off the street)...the rest to UAL, Spirit, AA, JetBlue, Allegiant, Atlas, ATI

I don't know for sure how many pilots EDV has. APC profile says 2,043 but I don't know how recent that count is.

See post #25307 in this thread for details:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/endeavor-air/88097-any-latest-greatest-about-endeavor-2531.html#post3488487

[non_state_actor]

It comes from EDV's ALPA arm showing where the 60 pilots they lost in August went. The interesting variation on a theme was that one of that 60 went to QANTAS.

I've worked with a few guys who have all flown in the US Regionals over the years. They were all Australian Citizens who had either married Americans or had American parents. You could also be a Green Card Holder I suppose and be able to work for a US Mainline/Regional Carrier then go to QF. I imagine the reciprocal arrangement would in be in place for a US Citizens

[bafanguy]

You could also be a Green Card Holder I suppose and be able to work for a US Mainline/Regional Carrier then go to QF.

Yes, a green card solves a lot of problems for an expat wanting to work here for a legacy carrier.

[b787q300]

Could someone please share details on interview process for internals and externals. Is the process the same for both of them? What kind of questions are being asked on panel and tech interview? Thanks

[dr dre]

Although the specific interview changes over time it’s usually the same format. There’s only one interview. It’s all behavioural based, you don’t need to know the specifics of any tech theory.

Behavioural based interviews are mostly TMAAT (tell me about a time), draw on previous experiences involving teamwork, leadership, communication, decision making etc. They may also involve a few scenarios given to you to assess your threat assessment and decision making skills.

[On Guard]

Although the specific interview changes over time it’s usually the same format. There’s only one interview. It’s all behavioural based, you don’t need to know the specifics of any tech theory.

Behavioural based interviews are mostly TMAAT (tell me about a time), draw on previous experiences involving teamwork, leadership, communication, decision making etc. They may also involve a few scenarios given to you to assess your threat assessment and decision making skills.

there is tech stuff too. I suggest you contact pinstripe solutions. V good.

[ruddegar]

That’s QF HR speak for 1- 4 years…

I hope not! But not much I can do about it until I get a phone call or an email. Judging from others who were interviewed and on boarded this year it seems to be moving faster than it has at any time in the past. Fingers crossed anyway.

[TimmyTee]

there is tech stuff too. I suggest you contact pinstripe solutions. V good.
thanks Kirsty 👍

[conanthelibrarian]

Hoping for some advice from those in the know.

My wife is taking a non aviation job in Sydney next month and her visa has restrictions on who she can work for. But as her partner I have no such restrictions.

I'm a 58 year old Brit line captain current on A330 (c 3000hrs) and A350 (c 1000hrs) Total flight time c 17000hrs mainly on A340-300/600. Ex RAF multi jet. Still working in the UK for a major airline.

Would anyone in the know from QF think they would even look at me as a prospect? Or should I just relax into retirement? I still enjoy the flying but this job is too good for my wife to pass up and I want to consider all my options.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[aussieflyboy]

Hoping for some advice from those in the know.

My wife is taking a non aviation job in Sydney next month and her visa has restrictions on who she can work for. But as her partner I have no such restrictions.

I'm a 58 year old Brit line captain current on A330 (c 3000hrs) and A350 (c 1000hrs) Total flight time c 17000hrs mainly on A340-300/600. Ex RAF multi jet. Still working in the UK for a major airline.

Would anyone in the know from QF think they would even look at me as a prospect? Or should I just relax into retirement? I still enjoy the flying but this job is too good for my wife to pass up and I want to consider all my options.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

I’d be applying for Sydney Trains. You’ll earn more and get to do something different before retirement.

[By George]

A difficult situation to be in and this site is not always helpful these days. With your background a Sim Instructor is a Sydney possibility. Have you any check and training experience? The Australian licence is another hurdle, the clouds are different down here.
Aviation jobs are advertised on 'Seek'. Just enter 'pilot jobs' on the search function. Also, AFAP Pilot Jobs.org.com is another site. I admire your support to your wife, a tough move. Good Luck to you both.

[BuzzBox]

Hoping for some advice from those in the know.

My wife is taking a non aviation job in Sydney next month and her visa has restrictions on who she can work for. But as her partner I have no such restrictions.

I'm a 58 year old Brit line captain current on A330 (c 3000hrs) and A350 (c 1000hrs) Total flight time c 17000hrs mainly on A340-300/600. Ex RAF multi jet. Still working in the UK for a major airline.

Would anyone in the know from QF think they would even look at me as a prospect? Or should I just relax into retirement? I still enjoy the flying but this job is too good for my wife to pass up and I want to consider all my options.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.


I'm not with QF, but as a former overseas airline Captain with similar age & experience to your own, my advice would be to find an opportunity outside the airline world, or just relax into retirement. I approached several Australian operators (including Qantas) after being made redundant during the pandemic. They had ZERO interest and most of them didn’t even have the courtesy to reply.