Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged

[bernyfly]

main focus seems to be the assessment stuff, can't see any purpose of these stupid games. At the end of the day, you need language skills and courage (for the exiting destinations) :}

[bigjarv]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c32_1367332518

[what-to-do]

rj2driver, we are soooo looking forward to you joining us here at FZ. You sound just what we need right now! :rolleyes:

[Loop... Hole]

The assessments are the most important part. Of the two, group-ex and computer, the group ones are critical. Lots of people are chopped after a poor group ex. I read the section on group work from 'get a head for the sky' interview prep book and it went like clockwork. Only three from the other group got through including the timekeeper who had also read the book.

On the computer, don't forget the primary task - flying the cross-hairs! Guys were saying they were getting the math and shapes but the cross was out of sight... not so good.

[Non rev]

It takes 18 days to get the book to states :ugh:

[Non rev]

Has any one ever been able to get hold of the, using the phone number they provide for CTC? I have an emergency and I shall speak with them. I have already emailed and that just might cause delay in attending to my need. Any advice? :ugh::{

[Mrglass]

Hello all, final interview complete, notification in about a week if you made it or not, presumably after they speak with your referees.

- Show up at 9am, wait in lobby, at about 9:30 they come get you, gives you chance to catch up with some old buddies you may have met at CTC England

Office location (http://goo.gl/maps/pFAk2) Also the place you 'show up for work' each day (to plan where you're going to live, proximity-wise)

- Into a meeting room, introduction, schedule for the day, then they take all of your documents.

- Off to the coffee shop whilst they look at documents and verify everything is in order. (Bring UAE AED as they don't take credit card, you will buy lunch here it is not provided, food is excellent though, 20-30AED will cover you for sure)

- After 20 mins back to meeting room, any missing documents are gone over in front of the group so don't be the one who forgot your logbook!

- 10-20min Q&A from us to the company....anything is on the table, we asked about pensions scheme, bidding, scheduling, airplane orders, vacation time, do we get the Emirates Pilot Discount card (yes we do!), staff travel etc.

- Everyone off to coffee shop to wait for individual interviews, you are given an approx time slot. There were two interview panels but you will still be waiting around most of the day chit chatting with other candidates.

- Once everyone is done at around 4pm we were bussed off to a medical center to do our examinations.

- Once complete you are returned to the hotel, job done.

-------------------
- Interview panel: 1 HR 1 Pilot
- Same exact Qs from UK...tell me about a time...
- Mine lasted 30 mins maybe, VERY casual, VERY friendly
- Asked about commitments in the next few months
- Mentioned earliest start date would be Sept/Oct (NTR)
- Notification if successful within a week after they contact referees

That's it.
Insh'ala I will get the call and will be tearing up the skies in a shiny new 73.
If not I hope I've helped out others in obtaining their goal and wish everyone the best of luck.

PS: Don't forget the unladen airspeed Q! (Hint: European)

[Mrglass]

Non-Rev check your PM

[LNAV737]

:ok:Hi Non Rev ! You just need to be persistent ! I had the same problem,I've booked for 15th of April but i couldn't make it ...i sent an e-mail ..couple of them but never got a reply.Eventually i choosed option 1 instead of two and a girl picked up a phone.She told me to call back in two days ..if still no answer on number 2 she told me to dial option 1 again and that she would take care of that..i did like she told me but somebody picked up the phone on option number two ...so they were very polite and left my application opened again ! I hope it will work for you as well ....

[Non rev]

Thank you Mr. glass. I received your pm and responded accordingly. Thanks to others for response. I emailed CTC last night and I had a reply from them first thing in the morning. I had my assessment date changed immediately and they were accommodating to my needs. Ill see you guys in Vegas next week.

[Non rev]

Mr. Glass, were you responsible for your own accommodations in Dubai for final interview?

[Otto Throttle]

As far as accomodation in Dubai is concerned for final interviews, I believe FZ put you up at their expense in the Premier Inn at DXB, in addition to providing you with a return flight from your home country to DXB. You should also have a full day free prior to your interview, which you are encouraged to use to explore Dubai and investigate the practicalities of life there.

[ABBOT]

An opportunity to view the highlights of the town! If calendar permits Monday night madness at Fibber McGees, kicking out time at the Moscow hotel, the list is endless.

[Old King Coal]

ABBOT, yes indeed, and therein to fully appreciate the truly International flavour of this place, a trip to the bar in the York Hotel (http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g295424-d571104-r109985950-York_International_Hotel-Dubai_Emirate_of_Dubai.html) is a bucket list must do item... Sodom & Gomorra don't even come close ! (so I'm told ;) )

[kowloonman]

Just been told to attend screening in CTC. Very new here in pprune.com. English not native, but level 5. Need help from anyone here to advice what to prepare and expect. Thank you for your kindness!

[shibani89]

Dear Friends
I am quiet new to the PPRune Forums ..have my FZ interview scheduled this May,Can some one please give me a hands on as to what kind of questions do I expect and how does the recruitment process go..
What all is expected out of us.
Please give an immediate reply since I am already running late with my preparations.
Thanks a ton!

[MD11Man]

Tell me about a time...

Give me an example of...

And fill the rest out with anything you can think of.

[jetstreem]

Read back through this thread people. It's all there.

If you're so desperate for this job, you can spend an hour or so doing your homework.

[Non rev]

Just completed the assessment in Vegas yesterday. Will have a detailed write up by tomorrow.

[Miked]

Hi guys,

I've not read all of the responses in here as I keep getting distracted by the arguments. Therefore I'll just go in with my info and hope it helps.

I'm out in Dubai having been successful at selection. Ctc was an experience but totally manageable. I borrowed a friends book called " get ahead for the skies" by mr A.Pilot. here. It was written for the ctc cadet program's and is very useful and touches on all the key points for CTC.

There is also an aptitude tester at here (http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/). Although the aptitude testing on the day was slimmed down to the toughest bit at the end.

Interview in Dubai was very friendly and it appeared that flydubai are looking to see your motivation and commitment to them and living in Dubai. The questions are similar to CTC but less of them and rather more about the details of your chosen scenarios.

They are open and honest about the work out here and I do not feel under any illusions. Everyone is genuinely friendly and helpful and I hope that will be sustainable with the expansion plans.

Very happy about my move and wish you all the best of luck.

[Non rev]

Sorry for the delay, but here is a run down on two days event.


Day starts with company's presentation with Q & A. Both CTC & Fly Dubai respresentative were there. Really great group of people. They answered every question in detail to the extent of their knowledge. Total 11 of us. All regional.

After presentation they split us in groups of two. Blue and red.

First task of the morning, group discussion and presentation. First scenario is rapid expansion of fly Dubai, and what can we suggest and the benefits of growing as well as the cons of rapid growth. Once completed, 2nd task is stuck on the moon scenario. You are given list of equipments and arrange them in the order of importance from 1- 12. 10 minutes after change in scenario and we are given list of additional items and now re-arrange the list accordingly.

After the group exercises, we waited until the computers were ready for testing. Again same tests that. Have been mentioned previously. Joystick and keeping the cross hair centered. Keep the cross hair centered while keeping track of the sequence of numbers. Third test was to keep the crosshairs centered, while monitoring shape and colors and numbers in the along with sequence of numbers on the right. My suggestion is take your time. Do not rush through. READ INSTRUCTIONS.

Once completed results were announced and out of 11, 5 were sent home. One on one HR interviews thereafter. Similar questions from previous write ups.

1. Why flydubai
2. What can you bring to flydubai
3. Acclimation to a new culture
4. TMAAT when you helped your company
5. TMAAT when you had an issue with captain and what did you.
6. Why should we hire you
7. What research did you do about the company
8. What's your total time
9. Talk about your self- your aviation career
10. Most proud moment in your life
11. Where you see yourself in 5 years
12. Your current goals

Once done, you go outside and wait. 4 out of 6 made it. We were given sim profiles that evening for sim on 737 NG next day.

Sim profile: no memorization required. Pay attention to instructors briefing.
Hand flown sim with T/O out of MUS, no flight directory, auto throttle or auto pilot. Fly complete ILS followed by go around and loss of engine on go around. Simple fundamentals of flying. Nothing difficult. They are looking for CRM and corrections you make if blunder. Afterwards, were sent home. Got the pass email the very next morning. Have the final interview scheduled next month. Will post further upon completion.

Word of advice, please refrain from asking questions about commuting. That's a no no. They want people for long term. It's up to you to convince them why they should hire you. CTC is difficult to pass but not impossible. All candidates were American. Didn't see any sort of discrimination. Pay attention to instructions and be pleasent. Answer with specific examples and time stamp. They will smell bull$hit for miles away.

Oh yeah and please dress professionally and iron that suit and pants of yours. It's amazing to see who didn't shave for the interview.

Also, if you are 737 typed and experienced, don't assume you have this bagged. You will be surprised to see people that have been eliminated.
Good luck!

[Vortac1]

Spot on dude.

Just a couple of remarks: we did have one guy that flew from Brasil to interview. Also, there was a corporate guy in the mix too.

I have to insist also in not making stupid questions during the interview. That'll paint a target on your back.

Shave and wear a suit that's not 3 sizes big, please.

CTC staff was very helpful and personable. As Nonrev mentioned, they are through, but it can be done.

Good luck to all!

[Mrglass]

Anybody have detailed information on:

- Life Insurance
- Loss of License Insurance
- Medical coverage

I have the 'info packet' but an looking for specific plan details, provider names, coverage rates and costs. PM me if you know - thanks.

In other news, I got a class date so follow my wise words from a few pages back and hopefully you should be in with a chance.

Good luck to all!

[Vortac1]

One more thing I wanted to point out...

During the presentation made by CTC in the Vegas assesment they mentioned that FD had just reached profit for the first time. They have launched a profit sharing program.

I don't remember the details but it involved something to the tune of extra weeks of salary based on amount of profit reached. If profit reached was above "x" bracket then you get "x" amount of weeks of salary as a bonus... There were several brackets.

Anybody remember any more details? I hate to be so vague, but thought it was worth mentioning...

V.

[Sandrojet]

Hello,

I passed the screening over a month ago. I'm not 737 type-rated. I have been checking my application twice a day since then hoping to see an opening for non type-rated, but no luck so far! Does anybody know when they might start calling non type-rated pilots? I'm getting inpatient!;)

Thanks!

Alex. :ugh:

[Otto Throttle]

That's not quite what the recruitment team at flydubai themselves are saying. Profit was actually reached last year, some $40m+ on a turnover of $750m+, and the expectation is that there will shortly be an announcement to the effect that results for the last 12 months are significantly better. The profit share scheme we understand to be only a proposal at present, with no details currently available.

Perhaps current employees can shed more light on the matter?

[Loop... Hole]

Preferred but not exclusive.

[DontThink]

Hi gents!
I am booked for the assessment in the UK shortly, does anyone know if the simulator can happen at anytime during the 2nd day of assessment or do they ask you/tend to roster it at specific times?

That is if you pass the first day of course!:)

Thanks guys best of luck

[jetstreem]

Yes, any time in a 24hr window. Have seen as early as a 5am report and as late as 11pm. It depends on what sim availability they have around the other training that's going on.

[DontThink]

Thanks..

I went through this whole thread, and understood what the negatives are about the job..

Anyone care to share some positive things?

[had-enough]

1. It doesn't rain much at all.
2. Petrol is cheap.
3. Minimum of 12 hours off after a duty.
4. You sometimes get two days off in a row....
5. Usually 3-9 night flights per month, sometimes more if you're lucky.
6. Mix item 4 with item 5
7. Great destinations such as Kabul, Kandahar, Camp Bastion & Bagram.
8. Alternating day and night duties.
9. A company prepared to go that extra mile providing you are too.

:)

[Vortac1]

Some of the positives may depend on where you're coming from industry wise... Corporate? Regionals? Furlough?

[FlyingHabit]

Attended the Miami selection. The previous gouges were very precise. Brief intro from CTC, brief history, plans and benefits for FlyDubai. Go into group assessment: first project was to assess How can we as flight crew help FlyDubai with its future growth and success. Next project was the moon landing scenario. The key for both group projects is teamwork, make valid points, and respect your group member's points. Next was the PILAPT, much easier than the online practice. Some had lunch, our group only had about 10 minutes before next round. They split the group just like on American Idol and let you know if you made it. 5 out of 16 moved on.

Next round is the HR interview. Very straightforward, just have your scenarios in mind, but don't be too scripted. Use proper interview technique and this is no problem. I guess the interviewer was not very distracted with my stomach participating(no lunch) in the interview because I moved on. 4 out of 5 moved on.

The sim next morning. Different from what I expected but: take off from muscat, level at 3000', a few right turns, transfer controls and brief the ILS, the sim freezes, given back the controls, and then vectored for the approach. Key is to slow down and get configured. Go down to minimums and then told to go-around, on the go-around given an engine failure. Stabilize aircraft, run checklists, declare emergency and shoot the published missed. All of this is raw-data, no autopliot, no auto throttles, or flight director. No visible sign of results given from sim evaluator.

I got my rejection letter 2 days later. I was pretty disappointed:{ about the rejection because I was sure I had it. I can't say that I flew it to perfection, but I can say that I was on altitude, on airspeed, made some s-turns on the ILS but never more than 1/4 scale deflection on loc or g/s; handled the engine failure pretty well, and shot the missed approach as published. But what I did certainly screw up was I didn't remember the immediate actions checklist until after I had gotten the aircraft cleaned up and climbing.

But more surprising to me was my sim partner didn't make it either. I can certainly tell you that he flew that thing to perfection and was excellent as the PM. So, overall I can't say anything bad about CTC, as previously mentioned but I don't know what they're looking for. I wasn't perfect and didn't make it, but my sim partner was perfect (in my opinion) and didn't make it either. So, maybe I'll try again once I get over the rejection. Also, no one from our Miami assessments made it beyond the sim.

[Vortac1]

How was yall's CRM? Did you guys communicate thoroughly during the assesment? Full briefings, calling corrections on airspeed/altitude/heading deviations?

I think they don't really care about ur flying per se (unless you're 737 type rated). They're rather looking for strong communication and CRM skills as well as ability to follow instructions and different procedures.

Anyways, could be a blessing in disguise man. One door closes another one opens!!

[asteroid01]

everything is 15 - 30% more expensive than the uk including accommodation which begins at circa £655pcm for a 2 bed flat in the cheapest area to £1900pcm for a small 3 bed semi and £2350+pcm for a 4 bed. Single people can make a serious killing on the allowance if they take a cheap flat but families will be out of pocket.

Utilities cost circa £2200pa for a 3 bed with an irrigated garden and the a/c being used only in the room that you are currently in ie turning off a/c's as you move around the house.

Oh, and the school allowance will leave you with a short fall of a minimum of £500pa per child up to £4000pa depending on where you can actually get a school place.

Shipping to Dubai will cost £3800 for a 4 bed house and return shipping back to the uk is more expensive circa £4500 (for the same size load).

You will probably need a newish car which you might not have bought had you stayed in an establshed country because older cars are so badly maintained and treated.....everything will be broken. However, new vehicles are relatively cheap as there is no VAT but second hand vehicles are very expensive in comparison to the uk because they enter a second market when they reach a certain age i.e. there is a massive demand from a population that cant afford a new car which pushes up the price of used cars.

It will probably take 2 -3 years simply to break even
The company does the barest minimum in every single respect; rosters late, crap crew food, deliberate avoidance of gratuity by making pay increases only to the FDP which doesn't qualify for the end of term gratuity, leaving Housing and School allowances unchanged, absence of Pension etc.

And the ability to return to your homeland via staff travel will be virtually impossible for a wife with 2 children because you will have no access to seat availability, actual loads or predicted loads. And the booking process can take 2 weeks although it is supposed to take 3 working days (which is still way to long). They will literally have to turn up and hope they all get on which is so risky that you simply won't bother. I can hardly imagine the distress to my wife and kids if they couldnt get on the flight, yet alone the cost of hotels etc. It is hopless without access to seat availability, actual and predicted loads but OK if you are single.

And how do you get out at the end? How do you get home for an interview when you finally decide to leave? No doubt it will be via a summer contract which could leave you unemployed in the winter. Expensive!!

The only thing that is cheap is fuel.

Its great if you are single and dont have job but don't resign from your job to come here.

[had-enough]

Non rev,

Are you kidding? As you have only just attended your interview I would try and reserve judgement until you have at least been at FZ for six months. That way your opinion will at least be based on experience.

It tickles me to think that you have the gall to call someone toxic for taking time out to inform people like you how life in FZ really is. I think most people would nod in agreement with what has been said, nothing malicious or untrue mentioned in the post by Asteroid .

I suggest that if you don't like what is said by people that work here, don't read this thread. It appears that from your other replies you still aren't sure how many hours people are even flying on average........ but yet you know enough to refer to someone as toxic. Genius!

:ugh:

[Clandestino]

Single people can make a serious killing on the allowance if they take a cheap flat but families will be out of pocket.

If I understood it correctly: 12 000 Dirham allowance is paid no matter what your rent is?

[Old King Coal]

Clandestino: If I understood it correctly: 12 000 Dirham allowance is paid no matter what your rent is?

Correct.

That said, some will need to factor-in that rents in Dubai are typically paid in large tranches upfront, i.e. it's customary to pay ones rent in either yearly, half-yearly, third yearly, or quarterly amounts (wherein monthly arrangements are almost unheard of) and a prospective tenant therein needs to be able to stump up the cash in advance.
Tenants will likely also need to fund a 'deposit', it typically being 5% of your annual rental.

If you don't have that kind of money readily to hand then you can apply for an 'advance' on your accommodation allowance from flydubai (up to a maximum of 6 months worth of rental, or which ever payment period you and your landlord have agreed upon, whichever is less); though before providing you with an advance, flydubai will want to see a copy of your tenancy contract.

If an accommodation allowance advance has been made, flydubai will then deduct the amount of that advance, as fast as possible, i.e. deduct the maximum amount from your monthly accommodation allowance, until the amount advanced matches what would have been paid via ones normal monthly accommodation allowance, following which normal payments for your accommodation allowance will then be paid into your bank account (always assuming you don't then need another advance to cover the next instalment of your rent?!)

Nb. FlyDubai's accommodation advance will not cover your deposit or any 'agency fees' (the latter being what you will pay to the accommodation agency / agent whom helps find your des-res in the desert).

On top of ones rent, one also needs to factor in the compulsory DEWA (http://www.guide2dubai.com/living/DEWA-bills-dubai.asp) 'capacity' fee (which is paid monthly), this being 5% (based upon ones annual rental amount) plus a deposit (for DEWA), on top of which are additional monthly charges for the amount of water & electricity that are consumed. Likewise community-based air-conditioning is extra (with availability based upon location). Amounts for these will not be covered by the accommodation allowance advance provided by flydubai.

Do the math! ;)

[ualgrizz]

King I believe the company will front you the money for the agent's fee as well as deposit...unless of course this has changed. The realtors are hit and miss. I suggest speaking with someone who can recommend one.

[Old King Coal]

ualgriz... if that's (now) the case (wrt agent fees & deposit being included within the initial advance) then it's all for the good. Fwiw, it's a long time since I availed myself of the advance for the accommodation allowance, and I made sure get out of ever needing it again just as quick as I could... the less beholden one is to FZ, the better (imho) !

[Clandestino]

Merry old soul, thanks for the info, it helps me with math :ok:

[Otto Throttle]

It is also worth noting that presently, this advance on the allowances is not available to new starters until after completion of final line check. So, either bring funds to arrange accommodation from your own pocket, or prepare for a period of time in temporary accommodation.

[High Energy]

Those are the rules indeed but flydubai is very helpful and I got the 6 month advance done in 10 minutes. Still have to do the LST. And I'm no exception...

Same goes for school allowance and any advance.

[Clandestino]

prepare for a period of time in temporary accommodation. Could you please elaborate on what "temporary accommodation" might be? Is it really possible to find accom in Dubai that can be paid a month in advance? I browsed Dubbizle a bit, shortest I could find is three months and two years are not at all uncommon.

[High Energy]

Housing contracts, as per UAE law, are 1yr contracts that automatically renew for another year. Obviously, in most cases, you can leave the place as long as you give 60 days notice. The price you get at the start of yr1 is also what you pay for yr2. The landlord can up the rent within a certain framework governed by RERA rules, and he has to advice you of doing so on the expiry date at the end of the 1st year. (basically he gives you 1 year notice of an increase) Usually it is a 5% increase unless the market value is +25% of what you are paying currently. And then there are some other adjustment constructions I am not going to bore you with.

You can find some nice places (appartments) for 1 mnth up to longer term for about 8000aed all incl. (2bedr+lounge/kitchen etc)

Prices in Dubai are skyhigh and what you get is down to your choice of lifestyle and family composition. There are many hidden expenses, some even call them taxes. :ok:

[NGFellow]

Depending on the schools you pick, expect to pay between 45K-60K AED per year per child. If you have 3 kids or more, expect to fork out 10-15K AED per child each year, in addition to the extra fees for activities that schools charge. There are very few schools (Indian etc) that fall within the allowance offered.

[sandboxpilot180]

Question for anyone-

Just applied. I have about 6,000 total time with 5,000 turbine, 900 jet. Of that time 4,000 PIC turbine (mostly turbo prop). No violations, accidents, or incidents.

Application did not pass initial CTC screening. Why might that be?

This was a very basic online application that only looks a small picture of your career. What do they want to see?

Thanks

[captain.weird]

Someone who has any idea about a cadet programme of FD? Are they going to put something up like this??

[no sponsor]

Don't tell me that 99% are failing CTC's assessment so they can line up their own cadets...surely not?

[Vortac1]

No, not 99% of the applicants are failing their CTC assessment.

[NinER fIveR]

sandboxpilot180: the reason you probably didn't pass screening is that flydubai are currently not looking to hire non-rated captains, just some rated captains and both rated and non-rated FOs.

[riccardopomo]

does anyone have problem entering the ctc-flydubai page? I have a message saying that there is malware in the site and I cannot go further.:ugh:

[Vortac1]

It's up and running on my end. Maybe some malware on your PC?

[long-gonner]

You must have a supercomputer because it is simply telling you that paying for an airline ticket, your own accommodation, as well as for the interview itself at a head hunter institution where usually less than 20% of the days candidates pass is just a bad idea:ugh:

[Pin Head]

Hi

Average FO take home pay?

Time to command?

Thanks

Pin

[adverse-bump]

Use.

Grammar.

Next.

Time.

Thanks.

[Flat Cap]

Been answered many many times in this thread Pin, suggest you go back and have a look for more detail.

FO total gross take home including housing and transport allowances approx $10,000 per month. (38,000 AED)

Command currently 2.5-3yrs, 4000hrs total, 1000 737, 500 company this assumes you pass first time (and plenty don't), and pilot demand remains the same.

F-C

[Hunter86]

Haven't been here for a while but here goes.....

I went for an interview recently at CTC and passed both day 1 and 2(sim). It wasn't like any airline interview I had been to before - not that I have been to that many. I followed the tips left on this thread by others who have gone before me and it worked. So, woohoo. I will be going for a final interview soon and it all seems pretty cool.

I must say that I found the process thus far to be well organised and professional. Easy to have a positive perspective when it works out but for what it's worth it Sao far looks very good indeed.

Good luck to the guys going for the interviews. Study this thread thoroughly and you'll get an accurate idea of what the whole process is about.

[NGFellow]

The housing allowance will get you a decent place but don't expect to save any of it (unless you are single and live in a apartment). Most 3-4 bedroom villas's will run you anywhere from AED 110,000- 160,000, depending on location and size. Ofcourse there are many that are much more expensive. DEWA (electric) bill can run AED 2000/month or higher during summer months. If you rent a car, expect to pay AED 1800-2200/month for a midsize. A compact will be a bit cheaper but once you see how people drive here, you will be running to find something bigger! The schooling allowance will NOT pay for the entire cost of education. I would say it will cover around 70% . A middle school (Grade 6) annual tuiton is around AED 60,000, while primary is around AED 48,000. As with all schools, there are plenty of extra charges.

Therefore, to accurately calculate your discretionary take-home pay, take the above factors into account. It will be a lot less than than the original USD 10,000 mentioned in the previous post. Dubai is an expensive place to live, and I would say compared to the U.S. groceries will run you 20% more, higher if you go organic! Almost everything is imported.

If you are an F/O at an established airline with command on the way, I would not recommend coming here. If you are a Captain in the U.S. or elsewhere taking home 6-7K a month, it's not worth coming here for an extra grand or two a month, in my opinion.

[Ethiopia]

@ricarddopommo

I have the same problem... I receive a malware warning every time I try to access their website..

No idea...

[LNAV737]

Housing allowance is for housing allowance and it's not there to be saved !!! Maybe the best option would be to get 10 000$ per month for housing allowance so you can save 6 000 and plus to get all other benefits...also per dime for layover is for you to spend on food and drinks ! Not to SAVE ! And why are you telling to this people not to come here !! Why are you here then ? Why don't you go home and be happy ! My GOD. :ugh:

[NGFellow]

:confused: Yes you are right, housing allowance is not meant to be saved, and neither is perdiem. But, those opting for apartments are able to save quite a bit of it. No crime in that, is there? My point was that if you are here with a family, whether at FD or with someone else, there are other costs that add up, lowering your discretionary income.

As far as coming here, it's a decision left to the individual. My own take is that if you are on an established track elsewhere, it would not be my recommendation.

[riccardopomo]

I had this malware warning on my MAC, but no warning when I use PC. Now it doesn't show anymore. But somebody knows when CTC will open to non-rated?

[what-to-do]

Are you for real?

You really need to wake up and smell the coffee. The 'Housing allowance" is not an allowance at all. The education allowance is, however, an allowance.

Whats the difference? If you don't use the education allowance, you don't get it, period. On the other hand, you will always get your 'housing' allowance.

By allocating money from you salary as an allowance, FZ can manipulate your end of service benefit. For example, a Captain who stays here for 5 years would be paid an additional 70,000 AED (appx) if the housing allowance was given as basic salary. When you multiple that by 500 pilots that's 35,000,000 AED, give or take the fact that I have only worked the figure out for Captains.

So the sensible thing to do is not to spend all your "allocated" rent allowance on rent and try and save some of your hard earned cash. Don't be fooled into thinking it is an allowance, it aint! :=

[ManaAdaSystem]

Correct. The ME airlines will keep the basic salaries as low as possible in order to keep the end of service benefits as low as possible.
You can of course pocket some of your housing allowance, but if you are going to stay in the ME for some time, a nice house or apartment is important.

[LNAV737]

If there is a perfect airline all the pilots would be there ! But,there is always one simple thing ...if you don't like it you just pack your staff say by by and go home ....and of course you will not get education allowance if you don't have children or not using it ....why would you get it ? haha funny :rolleyes:

[had-enough]

LNAV,

Who mentioned not liking it? read the post! What-to-do simply states how it works here in Dubai, quite correctly.

I think if you actually read the post, it states that the housing allowance is not an allowance at all, which it isn't, where as the education allowance is an allowance.

If I choose to live with a friend and pay no rent, do I still get my rent money? Yes! Alternatively, If I don't have kids, do I still get the education allowance? No!

Quite simple really. :O

P.S. Do you even work at FZ? I'm guessing maybe not!

[Pin Head]

The tell me about when questions. Can they be life experiences or just flying based examples?

Thanks

Pin

[farisjet]

Hi.

Just wanted to ask how did your final interview go!!!:)

[MD11Man]

Pin,

Flying.

[3Ten]

My application has been sitting "passed" on the 1st stage for months, but no oportunities for Non B737 rated assessments. Do they have enough rated guys, and the non rated will be sitting forever?

Thanks for any insight

[Vortac1]

I'm not too sure if they have a lot of applications on file or not. I do know they will be needing pilots for a while.

Recruiting/Training department is a bit saturated at the moment. Applicants who passed the assessment in June/July are being offered class dates for as far as January 2014 for non type rated guys/gals. Pilots with 737 type rating that pass the assessment start within 1-2 months.

Hang in there, I think they'll open up assessment days for non type rated eventually...

[3Ten]

Thanks for the info, I'll keep checking the site daily.

Cheers

[High Energy]

Read we're launching a second daily Kiev rotation to compliment the daily KBP, but this time it's to Kiev Zhuliany.

Also heard Madinah, Saudi, is to start around Aug/Sep and Budapest is being talked about. Potentially a launch of Madurai, India, 'confirmed' here: (source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/madurai/New-flight-services-from-Trichy-in-the-offing/articleshow/20980540.cms))

[ATP123]

I just want be short and concise.

After 7 months for application to be accepted. 4 weeks to get the appointment for the assessment. 26 hours travel and US$ 2500 expenses for interview.

A group of 8 divided in 2 teams of 4 each. Red and Blue. Almost all with similar qualifications, some with jet experience some without it. Some type rated and some none.

I was in the Red team. We did the group exercise while the blue team was doing the PILAPT test.

We lasted 10 min for the first exercise plus the 2 min each for explaining (Just as the previous comment)We discussed very friendly and respectful towards each other, we all had our opinions and we agreed on the points to expose. We nailed the timing for the discussion and each got their 2 minutes to expose.
After,we got the Lost on the Moon exercise. Same as before. Discussed the best options, agreed on some, disagreed on others but at the end we came to a conclusion.
Again, all the time very friendly, polite and professional. We managed timing very well at this one too.

When we finished the exercise we ALL felt good about it. We thought that we had a good performance as a group.

After that we did the PILAPT test. Only 3 tests of about 40 to 60 SECONDS each. (Cross hairs, Cross hairs with colored shapes and numbers and cross hairs with colored shapes and numbers plus a backward counting sound) With the option to practice for 20 to 30 SECONDS. It was very hard to control since the Joystick is very sensitive and in some cases it reverses and the inputs have to be switched (left to go Right, Down to go UP and Vice versa)

After talking to the other applicants we were pretty much on the same level on the PILAPT test. So the 8 of us were very anxious on having the results.

After lunch SURPRISE!!!! Sue asked 3 of the red Team (including me) and 1 of the Blue Team to follow her to the conference room where the bad news where given. The room fell with sadness and disappointment.

Now my insights of the process:

Apparently very friendly people and make you feel comfortable all the time.

First thing I smelled fishy :

During the "presentation" the 8 of us were sitting on a big conference round table. Not much to show at this time right? Except showing interest and paying attention to what Julianne (Name of the person doing the presentation) and sitting in straight and properly ( we all were doing that)BUT at the last corner behind us there was Terry sitting and writing like a machine.(hard to ignore that) and I remember Julianne saying that we shouldn't worry about her that she was there to "evaluate" her in the presentation. I remember as well Julianne talking about CTC background and history and she mentioned that she has being working there for 10 or 15 years (Don't remember the exact time)

Now, who's going to evaluate a person who's just doing a presentation and that has being working in the same place for so many years?
What kind of insight can they have of people just sitting down paying attention to a presentation? This is one thing to think about!

Another situation, the PILAPT test:

Who can determine in a combined test of 3 minutes (where pretty much all of us got the same results) whether you are a good pilot or not? Specially when you are not familiar with the Joystick sensitivity and even worse making the controls reverse during the test.. Airplanes if you push you go down if you pull you go up!! As simple as that!!!Another thing to think about!!!

And last but not least.. What are they looking for on the group exercises? I believe we did a decent job as group and that almost all of us got chopped at the first cut.
Another hint that make me thing that there's more behind CTC that meets the eye is that when Sue gave us the "bad" news she suggested us to look into a web page about CRM exercises and methods. So this make me think that no matter what the PILAPT test result is they know how many they will fail every day from I don't know what basis and based on their perception of the group exercise.

My sincere opinion and you can take it or leave it. But it will save you time, money and a very bitter moment.

DO NOT APPLY TO FLYDUBAI AS SOON AS CTC IS INVOLVED!!!!

I will love to try again but not to CTC. I flew 26 hours for this assessment and got well prepared with some interview questions and answers. Researched on leadership and CRM. Practiced some sample tests, etc.I got a nice suit and I was behaving very professional, friendly and adequate but it looks that none of these is good enough for CTC.
I believe we did a great job on the group exercise. None of this show how good or bad pilot am I but the "evaluation" of 3 Ladies of I don't know what!!!!

Maybe CTC rate is 2% from outside and 98% from their own school.. Think about it, they SELL pilot Licenses and Type ratings including a chance to apply to an airline.. Why the want to have more from outside if they can offer that to the ones who are paying for their type?? Just thinking on different possibilities and trying to find reasonable answers.

I hope it helps and that my experience will open the eyes of some out there who want as badly as I did to have the chance for flydubai but the odds are against the majority.

Thank You

[High Energy]

Medina confirmed as nbr#65: Flydubai to operate to Medina | FlyDubai | AMEinfo.com (http://www.ameinfo.com/flydubai-operate-medina-349022)

[Vortac1]

Any news on PBS?

Also, I need a captain who wouldn't mind answering a few questions to shoot me a quick PM, if its ok. :)

Much appreciated.
V

[DILLIGAF.]

sour grapes, ATP123?

maybe you didn't reach the required standard? just because you didn't make it doesn't deserve the response of don't apply. As far as I am aware CTC do not offer a Cadet scheme with Flydubai, so what are they to gain financially?

[dubaigong]

DILLIGAF,

I don't know if you are working for CTC but all I can tell you is that I have had the opportunity to meet a lot of the Flydubai pilots being gone through the CTC selection and most of them ( even the one that passed it ) mainly agree to say that they didn't really understand why they passed or why some others ( very good guys ) failed.
And from inside Flydubai I can tell you that many times this subject has been raised by the pilots during the chief pilot meetings which run around twice a month.
Many pilots have asked the company to stop using CTC and to come back to the in house selection so there is for sure a problem with CTC.
Apparently the reason for not coming back to in house is the cost being less for the company using CTC.
Without going too far with "rumours" , it seems even that some CTC employees offer some material and course to prepare for the selection , so I see their interest in failing a certain number.
On top of that the more pilot going through their selection process the more money they make as you always pay even if you fail...
At the end , maybe you are right about about the sour grapes for ATC123 BUT you may also be wrong...

[filejw]

Guys just an observation but after 35 years in the business I would say that any outfit that outsources the selection process isn't worth working for. Especially one as big as FlyDubai.

[Vortac1]

Well, for whatever its worth, I went through the selection process with CTC here in US. The experience was positive, not only because I was lucky enough to pass it, but all the staff was really nice and helpful. I experienced no curveballs, sleazy moves or anything like that.

But most importantly, as soon as we were done with group exercises (the first activity of the day), it was veery clear to me on who wasn't going to make it, sure enough, those got canned shortly after. If I would've been on the interviewer side I would have also rejected those guys: attitude problems, lack of initiative and willingness to participate, cockiness, suit 3 sizes too big with a 3 day old beard and shoe laces undone, etc.

I will say this tho, I have no idea how productive the joystick computer test is, the one with the shapes, numbers and such. I do think that stuff is a waist of time and not a good tool to determine if someone is a good pilot or not, but what do I know, maybe shows some parameters on psico-motor skills that I have no idea about.

It seemed they where consistent on the people they chose from our group.

My .2 cents...

[DILLIGAF.]

dubaigong, not gonna argue your point, it just yanks my chain when people bitch about failing at interview. It's never their fault....blah blah blah, suck it up, learn from the experience, but to argue the point that people are failing so that they can get more money from their own cadets is a bit preposterous! I can see your point about more candidates through the door, the more money they make....we'll never know the answer to that one!

oh, and no I don't work for CTC nor have any inclination to do so :}

[capfo]

Hi guys, just a question;

Aside of salary and benefits shown in their web page, is there anything else?
EK ID90 or something similar?
Can you enjoy your holidays in two or three periods?
And the last, how many days do you fly normally per month?

Thanks!

[Vortac1]

Hey Capfo.

There are travel benefits with Emirates and Air Arabia as of now. (And FD obviously) its not quite ID90, you pay a little more and there are different "kinds" of stand by.

Yes, you can enjoy your 42 days of leave in different breaks, no less than 7 days in a row, if I remember correctly.

There is a new and fresh profit scheme available for pilots, but I dont have the details on it at hand.

As far as days off, it is my understanding that 9-11 is the norm. Closer to 9 seems more accurate. PBS is coming, dont know how that would change, if any.

Capfo, I strongly suggest you give this entire thread a good read. Sounds like you are on your early stages of research on FD. Its time consuming, but worth the read. It answers lots of questions, including the ones you are asking above.

Cheers!
V

[High Energy]

Shortly to be announced, a new service to Chisinau, KIV/LUKK, Moldova.
Link: Compania low-cost "flydubai" vine în Moldova | PUBLIKA .MD (http://www.publika.md/compania-low-cost-flydubai-vine-in-moldova_1514741.html)

Google translate:
Low-cost company Dubai Emirate, "Flydubai" plans to operate flights this fall and in Moldova. Announcement was made ​​a few minutes ago the Ministry of Transport and Road Infrastructure.

Driving ministry says it already held talks in this regard with Andrea Catto, commercial manager "Flydubai" for Europe. Moreover, he was drafted and Air Services Agreement to be signed in the near future between the Government and the Government of the United Arab Emirates.

According to Ms Andrea Catto, the company plans to introduce regular flights on the route Dubai-Chisinau throughout the year. Also, "Flydubai" is able to offer convenient connections to 60 destinations around its management.

- See more at: Low-cost company "Flydubai" comes in Moldova | PUBLIKA. MD (http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.publika.md/compania-low-cost-flydubai-vine-in-moldova_1514741.html&usg=ALkJrhj0Hikfo3z5k4I5BOlAGUBRuTVP2A#sthash.VBCLuNHX.dpuf)

[Old King Coal]

Moldova: A tiny little land-locked country, with a population of 3.6 million, whom have an average per capita net income per year of $3,156 USD.

[Vortac1]

Has anybody here gotten a class date already for Non-type rated guys around November, December or January?

Thx!

[Mrglass]

Yes - I have class early November.

[Mrglass]

Trivial question:

Which headsets are in the cockpit @ FZ?
Hoping they are not DClarks....my sunglasses will be compressed into my face if that is the case.

Hoping for Sennheiser 26 series.

[RandyBMC]

Crappy Telex ones that not too many people use. Most guys have their own headsets.

Hope that helps!

[Old King Coal]

A significant number of FZ's pilots use the following combination (and pay for it themselves, there being no contribution from FZ):

Bose QC15 (http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/shop_online/headphones/noise_cancelling_headphones/quietcomfort_15/index.jsp) + UFlyMike 2 Plug Cord Set (http://uflymike.com) = $552 USD

[capfo]

Vortac1, thank you very much for your response, appreciated! You´re right, I´m in the initial phase. I,ve just passed the first screening in Dibden, information given on pprune was very useful and accurate. Now I´ve to go to Dubai to the last interview, do you know guys how will be the interview or what kind of questions can I expect?

Thanks a lot!

[Vortac1]

Congrats on passing your initial screening!

Expect the same questions you had on your one on one interview of your first assessment. Mostly TAAT type of stuff.

Also, make an extra effort to have all your paperwork ready for them when you show up to Dubai. Go over it a bunch of times before you leave your home country!

Any word on when you're headed to Dubai?

[Vortac1]

As far as headphones go, I have the Telex 450 with the 2 plug set up, would these work on FD 73's?

[RandyBMC]

If it has the normal two plugs, it should work fine. The Boeing is not a quiet airplane though!

[Vortac1]

Yeah, I've been using my Telex for 5 years already (I actually have the 750 model, not the 450, my bad...) , I've been using earplugs with them to keep the noise down.

Guess its time to look into those 850 ANR... :uhoh:

[ualgrizz]

From the US, you will need at least an 850 or some kind of noise cancelling headset. If not, you will find yourself saying...huh, what did he say...all of the time. The accents can be h$ll.

[long-gonner]

The 850ANR is a waste of money in this plane. I tired using the 850 for the first year and finally bought the Uflymike/QC15 setup. Going Bose was a good decision. A few guys use the Bose Aviator headset, but for the price the QC15s are just fine and you can use them when traveling.

[High Energy]

Tbilisi frequency to go up by one weekly flight from October.
Link :FLYDUBAI TO INCREASE FLIGHT FREQUENCY (http://bpi.ge/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=14581:flydubai-to-increase-flight-frequency&catid=939:2011-11-06-17-42-27)

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Anyone have any information as to how you can re-apply?

I keep getting the message that I have already applied and that was over two years ago. Now the system keeps sending me back to that application.

I remember someone asking it before in this thread but can't seem to find the info.

[sandson]

Its simple. Just create a brand new application using another email address and another phone number (use your spouse's number for example). Good luck.

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Used different email and phone number, no luck it seems.

[Old King Coal]

Runway maintenance at Dubai Airport will mean less flights and woe for passengers (http://www.7daysindubai.com/Dubai-flyers-braced-airport-woe-runway/story-19688606-detail/story.html)

[NinER fIveR]

Only way to reapply is to alter the spelling of your name slightly or use a middle name instead of last. You won't be stuck with it I imagine, it's only an online application so you can correct it later. New email and phone number as well. System seems to reject applications that are too similar to existing ones automatically. Good Luck.

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Thanks, tried that and seems to work now.

[SebastianDesoto]

Is Flydubai using EFBs? Or will I need to buy a new flightkit bag :ugh:

[High Energy]

No EFB's yet but there will be soon. Test versions already up and running. (Ipad's)

[NinER fIveR]

Actually have been using EFBs (Panasonic toughbooks) but without the electronic charting. Mainly for OPT and manuals. iPads in testing with charting and the works as High Energy said.

[SebastianDesoto]

Great news. Any idea how it will operate? Which vendors will do the charts? Company paid ipads for each pilot? Or each airplane? Or pilots are responsible for their own? Any idea on time frame?

[Old King Coal]

Seb, whilst your enthusiasm is no doubt laudable (in certain circles), to be quite honest - the fact that with just 7 days to go, i.e. to the end of August, and yet with the roster for September still not published (in a supposedly 'Scheduled Service' airline?!), imho, one should be far more concerned at these sort of aspects than with niff-naff such as which EFB, tablet, chart providers, are in use, etc?!

Given that it's now +4 years since start of flight operations within FZ, the fact that the roster is STILL published only days prior to it becoming active is a incompetent f'ing disgrace!

[SebastianDesoto]

These are not issues I am aware of. I'm sure I'll learn more as I finishes reading this thread. I am attempting to plan, however. That includes the little things like flight bags.

I get the feeling that managers in the ME consider their workforce indentured servants and therefore do not place much value on the same things you or I might. This is circumstance that, unfortunately I have to accept because of the hole I put myself in combined with the evolution of US airline industry. I'll either have the shackles in here under an illusion of freedom, or have them on there where at least there is no illusion and they will provide a means of at least meeting my obligations.

[Old King Coal]

Seb, fair point and well reasoned... albeit that an interesting aspect you might (also) like to consider is that FZ's passengers can plan for & book a flight many months in advance of their travel date (and for which FZ take their money), and yet for the aircrew it's seemingly as if the whole thing is dependent upon a last-minute sprinkle of some magic pixie dust on top of a crystal ball which they use to determine the flying program for the following month. And as this last minute roster publication has been going on for 50 months, mgmnt excuses are wearing a bit thin!

[SebastianDesoto]

Do they really wish to retain their pilots for more than 5 years?

[had-enough]

I don't think it's something that they consider relevant. It's how it is, take it or leave (it).....

Personally, I believe that whilst pilots can be recruited and rolled off the production line, pilot welfare is way down on the list of things to do. Should that situation change, then you may see improvements in the day to day life of pilots.

Rosters delivered just days before you need them, minimum rest between duties, alternating days/nights and single days off have been the norm for so long now. If management had the inclination to change anything they would have done by now..... :ouch:

[High Energy]

An airline like BA publishes their rosters on the 10th latest. So a much more complex operation can do it, why not FZ?

[spanishfly69]

For all those complaining. There is always a choice,

Chinese Airlines Lure Pilots With Double the Pay of U.S. Captains; Carriers Boost Salaries to Hire Seasoned Crews, Causing Shortage Across Asia | Bamboo Innovator (http://bambooinnovator.com/2013/08/24/chinese-airlines-lure-pilots-with-double-the-pay-of-u-s-captains-carriers-boost-salaries-to-hire-seasoned-crews-causing-shortage-across-asia/)

[long-gonner]

Well said OKC:D The rosters were probably 99.9% finished on Thursday at 3pm, but why release them early when you can hold them till after the weekend! Can't wait for what new surprises PBS will hold.

What's even more disgusting is the endless surveys where we are asked to give "honest" feedback only to have our opinions tossed in the nearest bin:ugh:

[RandyBMC]

Still no rosters at 1520...

[Voodoo 3]

Given that it's now +4 years since start of flight operations within FZ, the fact that the roster is STILL published only days prior to it becoming active is a incompetent f'ing disgrace!

What's even more disgusting is the endless surveys where we are asked to give "honest" feedback only to have our opinions tossed in the nearest bin

Wot they said!!! :D:D

[long-gonner]

17:12 and all we have are crickets.......chirp chirp, chirp chirp :mad:

[mave292]

Cabin crew received their rosters Thur night which has the operating flight crew on it so why the delay

[Old King Coal]

2:30am... tick tock, tick tock, tick tock!

Can someone please confirm to me that FZ is indeed a 24/7/365 airline and, if so, where's my f'ing roster for month September?!

But ah yes, I forgot, certain office staff don't work night shifts do they (unlike the aircrew), and / or that certain office staff can plan their life months in advance, can't they (unlike the aircrew).

One suspects that the subliminal message one can obtain from this is that the aircrew can go f'&ck themselves and aren't entitled to 'have a life'... uhm, but - whilst not wishing to be awkward - please do remind me again what CAR OPS 1.1105.c (OMA 7.2.c) says about this?!

Aside - Can someone also please tell me why, in a supposedly 24/7/365 airline, the aircrew have to resort to procuring their pre-briefing beverages from out of a disgusting vending machine, i.e. because the folks in the 'Bean & Gone' concession (name escape me) have seemingly revised their opening hours; typically meaning that they are always closed whenever I go to work (that being mostly at night).

Fwiw, here's how one of my 'buckets' is looking right now:

http://www.give-me1dollar.com/bulletins/bucketo****.jpg

[flymetodubai]

I was with you up to the rosters - hopefully PB will solve some of these things... As for the coffee rant I can only imagine Victor Meldrew hijacked your laptop.

[MrCarlosDanger]

I heard that PBS was put on hold!

[Old King Coal]

flymetodubai: The reference to the availability (or not) of coffee was 'emblematic'. E.g. if you've been in FZ long enough, you'll certainly recall the debacle of the aircrew being banned from using the 'staff' car park (seemingly on the basis that without a desk in the office we were not considered worthy)?! So the fact that, during office hours, all's available, but during non-office hours it's like the Mary Celeste, these are the sort of things that reveal the attitude of mind.

Now I was hoping that this airline would indeed become the "SouthWest of the Middle East" (much as KG said to me, during my interview back in 2008), but, let's be honest, it's not even close and here's an interesting little parlour game we can all play: "Name me anything in FZ that has got better in the last +4 years?"

You see, and as far as I can tell: The rosters are still far from desired (and late). The package is fundamentally the same (though, and before you say it, the 'bonus' paid in 2013 was used as an offset against any increase in salary or allowances and, being un-contractual, they don't have to pay it in the future, and / or how do you know if the 'target' was made or not, wherein it's not like they publish their end of year accounts now, is it?! Fwiw, I have a sneaky suspicion that the 'target', i.e. for triggering the bonus payment in 2014, will just be missed and, in spite of all your ever so hard work, you won't get the bonus in 2014 - ahhh, never mind, suckers!... and, as precedent to that, see also Emirates' bonus in 2012 & 2013). Some might try and suggest that the healthcare cover has got better (remembering that it was slashed after year 1), but it's really only back to what it was when we first started. I suppose that if you've kids in school in Dubai that the increase in the education allowance was welcome, though parents are still having to put their hands (deep) into their pockets to cover the costs. Etc...

As for PB solving the roster crisis, I admire your optimism, though I suspect you'll be disappointed and will see a lot of what could be days-off being filled with inane standby's.

For my own part, having recently shaken off a nasty dose of Stockholm Syndrome, I have set the wheels in motion to leave asap... wherein I have truly had enough of both Dubai and FZ; and I'm far from alone in that sentiment!

[MrCarlosDanger]

Don't know mate...was hoping someone could share some light. Then again, nothing is going to help until the airline is manned properly. I would bet there is a link between lack of flyers and management bonus...therefore this place will always be a mess. With that, we have a group leaving and more to follow. In an odd way, is this a first example of perpetual motion???

[Voodoo 3]

I heard that PBS was put on hold!

I really hope you have some evidence to back that up. Most of the more senior guys are crying out for this to come in as they are getting a bit tired of working continually unhealthy patterns for so many years, 18-30 hr rest periods etc, days to nights and v/v, using section 7 (A) as a target not a limit.:= For a couple I know it's the only carrot keeping them here.....

OKC, the man (often) in the know, you got any gen on that?:confused:

[Old King Coal]

Wrt to an apparently now delayed implementation of the PBS, rumours abound:

It was run in a test mode which seemingly resulted in some flights being over-crewed, and yet others not being crewed at all?
Insufficient crew numbers to cope with the flying program resulting in the PBS failing to deliver the much vaunted improvements in lifestyle?
Loss of control of the crews schedules would diminish certain departmental fiefdoms; which - to some at least - would seemingly be a truly deplorable situation?
...?

Take your pick ?!

[what-to-do]

Should PBS prove to be nothing more than a smoke screen, then i'm afraid it's time up for me. I am done with unsafe rosters with no life in between. Application time.......:ugh:

[Voodoo 3]

1. It was run in a test mode which seemingly resulted in some flights being over-crewed, and yet others not being crewed at all?
2. Insufficient crew numbers to cope with the flying program resulting in the PBS failing to deliver the much vaunted improvements in lifestyle?
3. Loss of control of the crews schedules would diminish certain departmental fiefdoms; which - to some at least - would seemingly be a truly deplorable situation?
...?

It's number three, number three I tell thee!!, oh with a little bit of one and two probably..... And that's far from proper Bo (selecta)!

[Flat Cap]

Hmmm I'm with Voodoo, four parts 3, with a slug of 2, and a tiny dash of 1. The perfect Cock-Up Cocktail.

PBS is yet another silver bullet management solution; the universal panacea to all our troubles, used to stick a finger in the dam of attrition. PBS does work, well, but only if the underlying structural, scheduling, and personnel issues have been nailed down. Lets face it, the rosters were bad when we had 10 aircraft and manual rostering, bad when we had 20 aircraft and AIMS and as has seemingly already been proven, a disaster with PBS and 30 aircraft.

As with any recovery program, recovery can only begin if you realise that you have a problem and actually want to change and make it better. I've yet to see any evidence that there is even the slightest concern that, on a corporate level, rostering is anywhere near a big enough problem so face up to the challenges and changes required in individual managers and employees confront the problems.

Bottom line, flydubai is what is, come take the money hang on for as long as you can, when you can't handle it any more get out, because those with power to improve it clearly don't, can't, and won't do it. :ugh:

Shame it has to be what way that because it really could be quite good.

Right I'm off to update my log book!

F-C

[seven3heaven]

Delay in PBS ? Why does this not surprise me. No doubt the little man upstairs is struggling to understand why the system is giving so many off days. :ugh:

[ABBOT]

It's numbers, the day that the following facts are accepted and correct ratio's of crew numbers to aircraft are implemented, then things will improve.

1) flydubai is a twenty four hour airline.
2) it is regulated by CAP 371 as amended.
3) except for regulated schemes included in CAP 371 or its supplements, it is not negotiable.
4) fatigue risk management is here to stay at ICAO level, neither is it negotiable.

When the good practices noted above are implemented, then PBS will work. Trying it any other way is doomed to fail.

[airbuske]

Anyone going to the flydubai selection day at CTC for non-type rated on the 5th of september? please pm me
thanks airbuske

[High Energy]

@DQ4. It's now 40k and 60K iso 35 & 55k.

[Vortac1]

Has housing remained the same?

[Hunter86]

Joining FlyDubai soon. Looking forward. Reckon it is going to be an awesome adventure. Woohoo.

[High Energy]

@ Vortac1. Housing has remained the same. Everyone cries out for an increase but the company stated that the current ammount was in line with the market rate. I think they missed the 30% increase in rents over the last 12 months. (Quote from Gulf News article)

[Old King Coal]

Vortac1: The Basic Salary, Housing Allowance, Transport Allowance, and Flight Pay, have all remained the same.

Tangmo: It is rumoured, by some, that 'Preferential Bidding System (PBS)' is a euphemism for 'Probably Bull ****'.

As for rumours regarding a fancy new uniform. Looking into the future, in this pic we can see a some flydubai pilots, attending a low-fares promotional parade, looking resplendent in their new flydubai uniform. Complete with properly big hats, plus lots of dubai-style bling, the medals they wear with pride upon their chests are awarded for the number of times that that pilot has flown into a war zone whilst in the service of flydubai and are more correctly known as "We're monitoring it" awards. Also, and contrary to how it might appear, these pilots are not retirees, oh no sireee. These 'young men' are currently serving pilots, whom just happened to look old, haggard, & shell-shocked, as a result of the horrendous rostering they've had to endure.

http://rt.com/files/news/1f/03/00/00/rian_01465060.hr.en_copy.jpg

[High Energy]

My nomination for post/picture of the week! :ok:

[what-to-do]

Guys, please stop your b*tching!

The Chief Pilot is looking into it, along with the safety department too. I have complete faith in their inability to rectify all of our concerns.

And remember, all you need to do is take a look at the recent HR survey which clearly states 'flydubai is a great place to work'....... if you don't work as flight deck or cabin crew.

:D

p.s. Be safe up there

[Old King Coal]

According to well connected sources, I'm delighted to report that the Spaceman has finally left the building !

No more shall we suffer his asinine assurances of connections to 'black ops' and / or ever have to wonder how a man with seemingly no commercial jet type rating on his home license (just look him up (https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/)) could ever call himself a 'Captain'... oh the mysteries he wove.

In salutation to a spectacular underachiever and a true legend in his own imagination, his departure will indeed be celebrated, by many! :D

[Vortac1]

So for those of us not in the soup yet, what kind of character are we talking about...? Spaceman? What department was he in?

[had-enough]

Two down! :O

[Amdram]

Tis true what the elderly royal miner doth say.

Word been going round for a while that he may well be heading back to his ranch many miles west of here.

Now as our science holigans at Mythbusters occasionally say, Confirmed!!

[Ethiopia]

Are there any ex-United at flyDubai?

United to recall al furloughed pilots (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/fashion/item/744-united-airlines-to-recall-all-furloughed-pilots)

[High Energy]

Yeah a few, the ones I met so far are all going back this year.

So who is this 'spaceman'? Initials will do...

[Vortac1]

A PM would suffice also... :)

[MrCarlosDanger]

There are a few...why go back? For a third furlough?

[dubaigong]

WHY ?

Maybe:
-to get better consideration
-to get better roster which means better quality of life and less fatigue
-to get better training
-to get better consideration
-to be closer to friends and family
-to enjoy a better environment
-you name it...

Money is not everything in life

[MrCarlosDanger]

Got a point Gong, I guess that's why I'm going back:ok:

[Man the lifeboat]

They've broken this camel's back, too! I'm about to join the growing list of pilots who are actively looking to leave due to lack of trust in management or PBS with these deteriorating rosters for the past 18 months. The roller coaster of day to nights is simply unbearable, and the ridiculous amount of 40min out and back only days is meant only to keep you trapped in dxb - what happened to all the talk of more days off and min 6hr flight days? The rostering is actually now getting dangerous IMO.

I've paid my dues and will soon be completely free of the bond. I know of several captains who are saying exactly the same thing. I think this could be an unexpected hit to FD that will make life very hard for remaining captains if all of these guys start resigning in large numbers. It WILL happen if PBS does not perform miracles from October.

[High Energy]

I feel an EU expansion (http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/eu-panel-for-lifting-visa-for-uae-nationals-2013-09-05-1.520001) coming up...

[michaeljpotter]

Energy - all I can say to that link is :ugh::ugh:

[RandyBMC]

Well most of us had the opportunity to return up to two years ago. I have done everything in my power and even beyond to make it work here. I really think there is a lot of potential for flydubai - still. But there are certainly issues. Those issues continue to get chipped away at by management, but never seem to get chunks taken out or even resolutions. It is always a "carrot".

Because of the housing increases in combination with the rosters and my personal cost of my kids' education, I had turned in my resignation before the big recall to take advantage of my earlier opportunity. The recall means that I will just be returning to Denver for basic indoc training instead of Houston.

There are certainly things I will miss about flydubai. It is still a small feeling airline where you can get to know the crews you are flying with. The people I work with are great! I will also miss how much effort my crew puts in to make the operation work. The rosters and some of our more adventurous destinations, not so much.

It is a shame really, because flydubai had some pretty high quality people that they have not been able to hold onto (I am the exception :} - but they are losing me too).

I wish nothing but the best to the comrades I am leaving behind in the desert!

[seven3heaven]

The spaceman has left the building but lets not get excited until we know who will replace him. Wonder why he didn't announce his departure.... ;)

Sad to see guys like Randy leaving the company!

[High Energy]

Has someone shown this (http://www.zawya.com/mobile/default.cfm/actstory/sidGN_10092013_110956) to the management?

There's also an article suggesting the rent prices are being driven up by 30% due to the expo 2020 bid. Have to look for that article again.

[High Energy]

Do they (http://www.ameinfo.com/flydubai-flights-kuwait-moved-saad-al-abdullah-353974) know something we don't?! Lol.
Normally a well respected source...

[ABBOT]

Sorry to see you go Randy, you, more than most have put huge unpaid effort into the FZ project.

What does amaze me is just how many of the guys who joined in the first year or so of FZ have now gone.

We all know that there is always an element of people who do not settle into expat life and leave, normally in the first six months or so, but FZ turnover seems exceptionally high.

[High Energy]

An interesting read here (http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/flydubai-makes-its-first-landing-in-ukraine-1.1233316) on he back of some inaugurals.

[plasticmerc]

Says a lot when good people leave and the company is forced to re hire, re train and back fill positions.
Doesn't help when management don't care, you are a number and their favorite catch phrase is do you know how many people are trying to get in to this company???

The only people happy in this company are the office staff they get treated very well, get all the holidays get the bonuses get treated like government employees, the guys and girls who do the hard yards get nothing, the company survey goes a long way to show how true I am.

Good luck, I guess flydubai has one thing going for pilots and engineers, come get your foot in the door get you command quick, get your rating (eng) quick serve your time pay your dues and pull the rip chord.....EJECT!....EJECT!...EJECT...........

Watch the shoot open as you glide to your next destination.

[FlyingTinCans]

If you want to have all the weekends and public holidays off then become an office employee, get paid half the salary, and enjoy the monotony of 9-5 sitting at a desk.

[RandyBMC]

Ok, but then by that logic there should be no comparisons ever made going the other way as well.

Soooo, no "no more than two days off in a row for flight crew because the office workers can't do that" mentality.

I still don't quite understand how we can ever be compared because number 1 we are in a SAFETY related position of responsibility.

Also, we certainly have quite a few other things we have to deal with that would warrant having 3-4 days off in a row between our blocks of flying. For instance, flying through the night, flip-flopping schedules, dynamic work environments, and of course the responsibility of our passengers' lives.

As it stands, we do not get more than two days off, and this month as well as last I have had 3 or more single days off. I am flying 90ish hours in October with 9 days off total, and 3 of them are single days off.

I am hopeful for all of the flydubai flight crew that the future will hold good schedules based on personal preferences through PBS, but so far I haven't seen that.

FlyingTinCans, have more pride in what you do and demand what you should rightfully have from the hard work you have done to attain your position of responsibility. We SHOULD be compensated more than double as well as be taken care of. If we make mistakes, lives are at stake.

Randy

[had-enough]

You appear to completely miss the point! :ugh:

Randy, well said! :D

[Old King Coal]

FlyingTinCans - might I be so bold as to suggest that you're either young; new to fz; special needs; or some combination of all 3 ?!

Imho, and in a spirit of fairness :E, maybe office staff should also be rostered to work 'shifts'? That way - immediately prior to their day(s) off - they too can enjoy finishing just prior to midnight, then starting again at 6am a day or so later, and / or give them the occasional smattering of single days off too?! And let's never forget the pleasure of coming to work at around midnight and then finishing 12 hours later... and of course "it's all legal"!!

That said, if they want to earn what I do, I wonder if they'd be prepared to invest tens of thousands of $£$£$£'s of their own money in getting a 'license'? And also be prepared to have an annual medical? And also have their competence to operate stringently checked every six months? And be prepared to be 'bonded' into a virtual servitude? And spend years & years in their apprenticeship prior to being given a chance at a hard-won promotion? Possess the right technical & CRM skills? And be able to cope with the responsibility? etc, etc.

But I do think we might of hit on something here, and indeed I must suggest to KG or GAG... i.e. the office staff are going to come under the merciless remit of 'Rostering' (oh what a great rumour !!!). Yep, I'll bet office productivity would increase by the ten fold, and it's for sure that the Been&Gone coffee outlet would then be open all hours! :rolleyes:

... but, until then, keep drinking the KoolAid mate and please do stop undervaluing your profession! :mad:

[FlyingTinCans]

To clarify, I'm not young (I wish I was), I'm not new to FZ and I don't have special needs (my wife may disagree).

What I am however is tired of pilots comparing their lifestyles to office workers. Now some of you are suggesting my above stance is me advocating the rosters at FZ, which I am not, compared to other AIRLINE PILOTS they are poor, but using the argument "the office workers should work shifts because we have too" or "the office workers should work public holidays because we have too" you sound like jealous teenagers.

You are comparing apples to oranges, and in the process devaluing a justified argument against the rostering department.

Compare your roster to other RELEVANT PROFESSIONS, not unqualified paper shufflers. And you say I'm undervaluing our profession :ugh:

[what-to-do]

As pointed out previously, you don't get the point!

Admittedly, it is rather subtle, but you're missing it (the point).

[dubaigong]

FlyingTinCans

When I look at your username , it doesn't sound like you have a lot of consideration for our work.
I am personaly not flying Tin Cans but very sophisticated pieces of machinery that need me to keep studying and reviewing all the time to be current with all the systems , changes in procedures etc...
But I must be more stupid than you I guess...

[FlyingTinCans]

No dubaigong just not the same sense of humour as me..... If any it seems...

[what-to-do]

OK, for your benefit.

Office staff (scheduling Dept.) have openly stated that they have to work 5 days off to get two days off, therefore, why should pilots be treated any differently?

Therefore, it's no surprise that the current rosters rarely have more than two days off in a row. More dangerously, the rosters have lately been made up of single days off after a run of night shifts, followed by..... night shifts.

Now, when you say that there can be no comparison between office staff rosters and those of flight crew, we agree! However, if the scheduling dept. use the above comparison, then it stands to reason that we, quite rightly, argue that point.:ugh:

[FlyingTinCans]

Ok for your benefit,

I couldn't give a rats a**e if the rostering department used the cleaners of 'Asian origin' as an example to the argument "if they only have one day off in a month then why should pilots be any different".

We both agree that it's no comparison, so why are you then using the SAME argument that you agree is irrelevant.

We should be arguing on the basis of the pilot rosters and benefits at GF, QR, EY & EK. The latest intake of pilots was reportedly told the FZ pilot stream is drying up, they will look to other airlines to see their benefits to try and lure pilots into FZ, it's called 'benchmarking'. The T&C's of the office workers is irrelevant.

[Vortac1]

"We should be arguing on the basis of the pilot rosters and benefits at GF, QR, EY & EK. The latest intake of pilots was reportedly told the FZ pilot stream is drying up, they will look to other airlines to see their benefits to try and lure pilots into FZ, it's called 'benchmarking'. The T&C's of the office workers is irrelevant."

Pilot supply is drying up because they cant find enough qualified applicants or because the training department cant get them out to the line fast enough?

[High Energy]

Boeing or Airbus (http://www.airfinancejournal.com/Article/3258886/Sectors/22102/Dubai-2013-flydubai-may-replace-all-Boeing-fleet-with-Airbus.html)...

I don't have a subscription to this website so if anyone does, I'd love to read the rest of the article. And yes, I know it's not difficult to predict what it says, but still...

[Old King Coal]

Fwiw, and as a case in point. Assuming I'm on-time this evening, I'm planned to finish duty at 23:25. I get tomorrow as a day off. Then report for duty again at 16:55 on Saturday (straight into night flights). So, for those thinking of joining, you can go figure the 'lifestyle' ?! :ugh:

[what-to-do]

Just so we're clear, I'm not using any argument. I simply understand the point that is being made, which you don't appear to.

I don't believe anyone is actually calling for a direct roster comparison between two completely different jobs. To me that seems quite apparent.

There is however, a very real problem with rostering here at FZ. Part of that problem is how the rosters are put together, which is further compounded by the attitude of the people that put the rosters together.

It is when individuals from this same group openly make comparisons with respect to days off, people are quite rightly annoyed. The point therefore, is that there should be no comparison in this respect at all, as we do completely different jobs. The most fundamental aspect of which, is that we work shifts and need time to recuperate. Having one or two days off after 3 nights is extremely fatiguing.

Did I say fatigue? Yes fatigue, an aspect of of our life here at FZ that is overlooked by scheduling and management at every level. So I'm wondering if the guys that work 9-5 understand what it's like to land an aircraft at 7am having been awake for 20+ hours or having managed only 8-9 hours sleep in three days? :ugh:

This is the point being made and not one of direct comparisons.

[High Energy]

Whilst we're on the subject of fatigue, German broadcaster ZDF aired a 30 min documentary on 'Pilot Fatigue'. Haven't seen it yet, German only.

Piloten am Limit
Wenn die Müdigkeit mitfliegt

Piloten am Limit - ZDF.de (http://www.zdf.de/ZDFzoom/Piloten-am-Limit-29673774.html)

[pole shift]

FZ is becoming a company that office staff see pilots as their worst enemy. Especially HR and rostering. Don't dare ask for any favours or help, they will give you the finger, in a nice way.
Pilots are worked to the maximum of their limits. 3 night flights single day OFF, 4 mornings followed by 2 OFF and then back to night flights, typically report at 23:00 - 02:00 and get back around 09:00 in the morning. Excuses plenty: not enough pilots, commercial coming up with new flights etc etc.
Trying to commute nowdays becomes impossible, even for 3 days. The funny thing is that aims can give you a Ryanair or Easyjet type of roster, but the experts running the rostering department come up with excuses on every time someone brings up an issue. Every pilot I meet in the briefing room talks only about the hectic roster, that has a toll on our life and health.
And people leave, and this number will increase as more people now complete the bonding period. Can the company afford to loose experienced on its operation pilots? If not then they better do something about it.

[Man the lifeboat]

Look in the crew room and you will hear more than stories of terrible rosters! EVERY pilot I talk to (other than ex turbo prop guys who need jet time) are ACTIVELY looking for new jobs! FZ is really about to hit a brick wall....but this one is coming very quietly!

[had-enough]

Don't tell FlyingTinCans! Apparently we should be arguing on the basis of pilot rosters at GF, QR, EY & EK.

To coin a phrase "I couldn't give a rats a*rse" about the rosters in other other airlines..... just the ones where I work would be nice!

Four years at FZ and the rosters are declining, as they have been for a long long time. Even the pilots who I once thought would be here for some time to come are now actively looking for jobs elsewhere.

Jobs in the US, Europe and even UK are now starting to open up.

Pilot sickness at FZ is astonishingly high......wonder why?

[dubaigong]

Why ?

I think a get a good idea.... It's the only way to get enough days off to be able to attend any interview for a new job

[Old King Coal]

Wrt looking for a new job?.... Too right I am, and actively so; I just can't wait to get out !

[plasticmerc]

I give up, Good luck to all.

[Voodoo 3]

and 3 of them are single days off.

Randy, I'll take your three single days and raise you to four!:= Competent rostering this ain't!

[MrCarlosDanger]

Lads have you heard of "fatigue"...sometimes we are our own worst enemy. The schedule is "legal" mind you, but so is "fatigue".

[seven3heaven]

Unfortunately guys we will always be treated like second class citizens by the highly qualified and competent HR and rostering professionals. If they sit behind a desk they seem to think that they have made it in life and can dictate to the "Prima Donna" flight crew. Jealousy is a terrible thing !!

Time to seek alternatives......

[AB115]

I've applied for a DEC position, but now having second thoughts about attendending to the screening process. Is the roster that bad? How many days off in a bidding period? How many flying hours in a month? Too much overnights and layovers? Will I stay at home with my family as they promessed me?

[Aerofoil]

From someone who spent just over 2 years at FZ i can state that everything you have heard on this thread about life there is correct. Within 6 months of joining and flying the rosters i lost 24 lbs in weight and from someone who only weighed just over 150lbs in the first place this is not healthy. I had enough of the ill treatment and decided that it was worth more to me, my family and my health to pay my bond off (i joined with a rating and 2500 hours on type!) and leave. Not only was that a better option than staying but also i had no job to go to after FZ so was effectively putting myself out of work!

Fortunately i managed to get another job in the meantime with a company who respect and promote safe rosters and have enough experience to treat all of their staff well and with a great amount of respect. If one was to make a comparison it would be to show that Flydubai (the management) are the 'know it all' teenager joining an environment of airlines that have already made the mistakes and learnt from them and Flydubai bigwigs are still growing up and learning how things work the hard way at the detriment to the crews who are/were their biggest asset! But what do we know, this is/was our first ever airline job and we know no better....surely?!?!

I wish all the best to my ex-colleagues and as things improve back in the states, uk, europe and elsewhere i look forward to seeing that you are out of that nightmare and back with proper airlines again. :ok:

[MrCarlosDanger]

Yes the roster is that bad! Like any statistic the numbers can be deceiving with respect to what you ask...hours flown and days off per month. Both vary and sometimes widely. You can fly anywhere from 65 to 90+ hours and have 9 to 11 days off per month...anecdotal by the way. On the surface that doesn't seem too bad. But, you must look at the contextual elements associated with the numbers...this is where it hurts. Days off per month...there is a mindset in this company that pilot rosters should serve as a "leash for a dog" so to speak. Since day one, it appears management/scheduling engaged in limiting the freedom and personal time you would expect from a reputable company by manipulating the flying rosters. For example, with 25-30 pilots and 1 and 2 airplanes, if you were not flying you were on stand-by (and the stand-by time are utterly ridiculous by the way). Come on, pilots sitting on the ground for months building an operation chomping at the bits to fly new airplanes. Who is going to call in sick...why the need to roster everyone for stand-by. Mind you, most were never called to fill in, but you have to ask yourself why would they do it...see previous discussions regarding the office hours worked vs pilot hours scheduled of the pencil pushers vs. operators. Even now the casual observer can see manual input to the schedule...if perhaps you have a little too much time off...you will find that "extra day off" replaced with a stand-by, reserve day or some other crap these guys have at their disposal. Let's discuss the critical part...your real days off and recovery time. Many times you will find yourself working until 2300 hours before your day off strings. In turn, you might show early in the morning after your day off string. Technically you have two days off or even one sometimes (three days off in a row is fleeting)...but do you really. You ask if you are home with your family. Well, technically you are but a lot of that time is in the next room tossing and turning trying to sleep at very odd hours. This is a 24/7 airline and as a result your body clock is so messed up, quality time with your family is limited...worse than long haul in my opinion...yep been there and done that too. On the other hand, the company has purchased PBS in an "attempt" to fix some of the ills. There are some technical issues with the application hence the need for test runs. Funny we have not heard about nor seen the results of the testing. I have a theory that we haven't seen the results because the results are not good. In my opinion, the crux of the problem is the airline is simply undermanned and we are in the middle of a viscous cycle. The hiring department is in full swing while we are loosing people as a result of what you have read in previous posts.

Now the hours. Again, on the surface 65-90 hours...you can do standing on your head. But these are difficult hours and are associated with extreme time changes. It is nothing to do 2/3 deep all nighters followed by early early shows after "2" or even "1" days off. The icing on the cake...all nighters to Russia and Kiev during the winter makes Kabul look like a "desired city". As a side bar, the commercial department is chomping at the bits to go to Mogadishu. Me personally, that is where I draw the line and I will not go there. Hell, we would probably be going to Syria if the local fed had not put a stopper on it. In a past life 80-95 hours a month was very doable...not the case here.

With all of that said...there are some good things about the place...unfortunately very few. The most important is guys and gals you fly with both in the front and back. The money used to be attractive...but that is somewhat in decline due to drastic increases in rents and day to day living.

Hope that helps my friend. For me, I met my goal. This gig was never meant to be long term. I find it a hard pill to swallow for anyone to make this a long term career move. But there are some that will stay here...in fact there are some great Brazilian guys that will probably stay...you need to get their inputs as well.

[LNAV737]

You will stay at home there are no to many layovers just a few 3 or 4 i think...i don't know who told you that .....the roster is a bit crazy ...with time changes ..from night to morning flights and sometimes with 12 h rest ...and the houseing allowance is really tight....they must increase it ....deposits for DEWA,apartment,ejari,internet ...bla...bla blaa :=

[long-gonner]

At first I didn't see any difference with the practice PBS award, but after looking away for a few hours and letting my initial anger pass it does look better than what I've been getting the last 9 months. There is only one block of four days that rolls me from a night flight, to a layover, then to a long day flight. It seems more productive overall, but the question is why did the system leave so many X days and what will those be turned into? Days off, probably NOT :=

Anything is better than what we have now. At least we can try and have some say in what we get rather than NO say at all!

And I just have to say it, no I'm not happy with PBS results this round. However, for anyone to suggest that staying with the current system of letting planning build our schedules with no oversight or seniority involved needs to reevaluate their thought process.....or even take some much needed leave:ugh:

[BritishGuy]

Are the PBS test results even out? Just logged onto the test account and cannot seem to see any results.

[High Energy]

An increase in MCT flights coming up early next year.
Source (http://www.muscatdaily.com/Archive/Oman/Flydubai-to-offer-business-class-seats-on-Dubai-Muscat-sector-from-next-year-2lka)

[High Energy]

Today we've got a flight to DWC sitting idle there for a few hours. Any info on that one?

[Voodoo 3]

Any info on that one?

Yep, Line training I believe. According to my buddies roster anyway.

[Vortac1]

Quick question about headsets...

I read the posts about the QC15+UFLYMIKE being really popular at FD back on page 95. Also read about the Telex 850 being completely useless in the 737. Has anybody tried the Denali's D90ANR? Just came across these in a pilot store having an open house around town. Just curious if any of you had any input on them on the 73.
Thx.

[MrCarlosDanger]

I read the earlier comment regarding the 850s as well...I used them for two years and they were just fine. Just to be part of in crowd, I purchased the Bose A20s. They are nice but bulky and cumbersome...and somewhat uncomfortable when you wear them for a while. Uflymike has some issues too...unlike the A20s, once the batteries go you must change them or revert to the company headset. Now that is a POS. Check out the Clarity Aloft.

[Vortac1]

Thanks for the input.

I just read about the Clarity Aloft. From what I understand, there's no ANR involved with those, instead it uses earplugs on each side with a tiny speaker inside each, correct? I love the idea of not having a clamp-style headset, just not sure how quiet they are... I'm told the 737-800 is pretty damn loud.

As far as your A20s, is it possible for those to be worn with the boom/mic on the right side? Or are the ear cups built specific for each ear and ur stuck with the mic on the left side (if u want the headset to fit perfectly)?

Interesting to hear about your 850s. That was my first option too until I read that previous comment. I've always used the regular telex (not the ANR set), but always used plugs with it and worked ok. Figured the 850s would've cut it. :(

[Kefuddle]

I have used the 850s for years on the 73. They don't excel in any department in any way, they are just solid, fuss free and much better than non ANR.

[High Energy]

So Head office is closed (12-13) 14-15-16 then working one day on the 17th and back off 18-19th. Can I have a block of 5 days off too followed by a block of two days off!? Who do I contact...

[Amdram]

You can email [email protected] .uae

[South Prince]

Hy guys, understand that life is hard in FZ, but anybody has a clue why someone applying for DEC and nearly 10000 hr command on jets over 50 t results unsuccesful at the screening stage? What is it they are looking for?
happy landings.

[MrCarlosDanger]

Sorry to hear that Southern. There is a theory floating around regarding experienced folks...the company is not keen on bringing in guys with lots of hours. Because they have been around the block, as in your case, they quickly realize the stupidity of the operation. Hence, they leave after a short time. The ones green around the collar are enticed by a carrot on a string...the command upgrade... hence, they stay longer. Again, only a theory and anecdotal. The HR department is FUBAR.

[what-to-do]

Trust me, it's a blessing in disguise. Don't try and understand these idiots, it would be easier to count the stars in the night sky than try and link logic with FZ.

With those hours you can go and join most 'professional' outfits.

Good luck. :)

[Spice boy]

Fellow pilots......badly need of fly Dubai interview preparatory material.....some pls help....thanks a ton in advance.....

Blue skies n happy landings.

[Vortac1]

Spice, I suggest you look for interview prep online. There are some websites that will give you access to specific, full interview gauge, with practice exercises, group activities, etc. They're spot on. Google them up and give them a look, well worth the $30 IMHO.

[High Energy]

So, a few more points on the 738MAX:
"I was in a briefing by Boeing recently for a MAX customer. The overhead panel is unchanged, it will still remain a "stalactite cave". Field performance is still a worry, no real news on that in the near future.
The MAX is a lot heavier than the NG, to the point where payload is actually less. With sparse increase in thrust, this only means one thing, worse fields performance.
Insider info also whispered (not at this briefing) that the aircraft is overweight from what Boeing has been pitching at sales. That does not bode well."

[Vortac1]

So I take it this is in regards to FD's announcement for 50 new airframes to be announced at Air Show? Im thinking the french are gonna love that...

[Spice boy]

If you could be little more specific with the website that would be of great help.....thanks a ton in advance.....badly wanna switch......

[Vortac1]

PM sent...

[worldrover]

Anyone can give me some heads up on the screening process?
Interview questions, assessment tests, group exercises, sim ride?

Standard things, relaxed, uptight?

many thanks in advance

[skysod]

First roster out under the new PBS, mine's a peach..... every request granted......a vast improvement......thank you!:)

[Old King Coal]

skysod: Ditto !

[High Energy]

Nothing yet... ;-(

[Amdram]

Double ditto. There's seniority for ya!;)

[High Energy]

Three weeks leave so don't care. ;-)

I feel a Chinese battle coming up! Link (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/air-arabia-eyes-first-chinese-routes-for-launch-in-2014-391944/)

[SadChap]

Hello ,

What layovers do you guys have at FZ ?

Thanks in advance

SC

[Horntail]

Congrats, guys! Would love to celebrate with you over a pint… Say this coming friday? Oh no, wait… Haven't got my roster yet so don't know if I'll be available. Have one for me, will ya? :ugh:

[High Energy]

Excellent news...Qantas partners with flydubai (http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-partners-with-flydubai). No surprise really considering the EK/QF tie up.

[flapsone737]

Hi guys, New her on Pprune... read all previous posts..pfff that took a while..

Can anyone answer this:

what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

*what is the thought behind this question and why do they ask this to us at FZ selections? I really dont get it..

[OLVpilot]

Has there been an increase in days off with the implementation of PBS? How about consecutive days off?

[what-to-do]

You're quite vague, do you mean African or European swallow?

[Vortac1]

Lmao!

Don't know the number from the top of my head. It is actually discussed in this thread, you must've missed it. It is actually complemented with a link to a YouTube video here somewhere too.

Not relevant really.

[flapsone737]

In this forum several people linked to *European...

I really don't get what this question has to do with any kind of interview....
I googled the answer...it mentioned some speeds with a difference between the different types... but nevertheless..... any proper answer with an explanation would be highly appreciated...

[NinER fIveR]

THIS. ENDS. HERE.

Airspeed Velocity of a Swallow - YouTube

[Mrglass]

Wow....not been back here in a few months...if i'd have known the confusion the "unladed swallow" question would have created I would have left it out.

Go watch some Monty Python people!

In other news...I start class this month.

[High Energy]

So we've got 'FEH' and 'FEI' arriving this month and one more in December. Now that all new routes for this year have started and all routes are covered what are these 3 new aicraft gonna do? (standby/spare and...?)

[Coupled_To_Me]

Hi Mrglass. How long were you waiting for a start date?

[Mrglass]

Interview was in April, class in November. You do the math.

[flydream1982]

Hi guys!
I passed the screening a few days ago, the next stage for me is to choose a date for an interview when a non-rated assessment event is available.
However, the only dates available right now are for rated guys, as the non-rated courses are full until next spring,according to their email.
Just wondering if anyone knows how often non-rated assessments are made available each month/year?
I guess we must be quite a few to be waiting for an available slot to interview...
Thanks for any info you could share! :ok:

[Mrglass]

No exaggeration:

I set up an hourly alarm and checked the website for slots when the buzzer went off.

It took about a week but one came up - and I got myself booked, it was filled within the next hour and removed from the open selections.

So...get watching, and best of luck.

[flydream1982]

Wow I didn't think it was that hard to book a date :eek:
I Check it 2/3 Times a day,but it's not necessarily easy when I'm at work. Plus,I'm on the other side of the planet,I hope they don't always open the slots when it's night time where I live...
Thanks a lot Mrglass,always good to have feedback from those who already went through the same path!

[Voodoo 3]

Some chap was so taken with this question there is a whole webpage devoted to the answer. It can be found at the bottom so if you don't want to know, then do not open the following link (http://style.org/unladenswallow/) :D

[MCO951]

HIGH Energy,
Per the last CP meeting, we're set to get 2 deliveries in December, one a month going forward, none in March 2014, but 2 in July 2014.

New destinations? ....Future secrets to be revealed at an undetermined date.

BTW.. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

Much more importantly, when are the leave bids for 2014 going to begin? I have a vacation I'm trying to book, but can't get the tickets until I know I have leave. Meanwhile, the prices keep going up, up, up!

[Old King Coal]

Fwiw, I spoke to HP (head of rostering) just a few days ago and he said that the 2014 leaving bidding should open this week (and that it will be conducted in the same manner as it was for 2013).

I also asked him about Preferential Bidding for December, and he told me that it wasn't yet available because Commercial Dept hadn't yet finalised the flying program for December, and that once it was passed down to Rostering the first thing that they have to do is to assign and / or allocate training duties into it, and only then can they release the roster for Preferential Bidding.

All I want to know is when am I starting my A350 or B787 type rating ? ;)

[dubaigong]

OKC you will probably be retired by that time....:\

[Vortac1]

So for those of us on the outside, is PBS already adopted? Is it operational or still just test runs?

Thx.
V

[Old King Coal]

dubaigong: lol, you cheeky bugger! ;) :)

Vortac1: yes, PBS is implemented, i.e. live (though presently only for flight crew, with Cabin Crew to follow in due course). It is based entirely on seniority (i.e. it is not like the Emirates implementation).

[Vortac1]

Thanks OKC. How do yall like it? Implemented as expected? Do you still get 2-3 days of reserve spread out across the entire group or are full reserve lines being built for the most junior?

Hopefully PBS will bring a little relief to rosters at FD...

[Old King Coal]

Vortac1: Well mine is none too bad, though it's probably too early to commit an answer to that question... thus ask me the same question in 6 months from now (if I'm still here?!) and I'll be better placed to answer it.
And wrt people being predominantly on 'reserve', I can't give you a definitive answer on that because I'm not privy to what has been rostered for other people / ranks.

[High Energy]

Operations to Bhubaneswar, India, in the making acc to goverment officials. (BBI/VEBS, around the 4hr mark)
Link here (http://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/flydubai-operation-from-city-may-be-delayed-113110400981_1.html).

[Old King Coal]

The low cost carrier had submitted a schedule to start flights between Dubai and Bhubaneswar two years ago. It is yet to be approved.

There are speculations that the airline may start its operation by November end. But the official declined to commit anything and said, it is a subject of bilateral agreement between India and Dubai.
Can probably be translated into: "Someone high-ups palm needs to be greased"

[pole shift]

This PBS buisiness is a joke. It's only benefiting the high seniority pilots, that of course take advantage of it and bid for as many days OFF as possible and for the nice day flights that report around 8:30am.
All the rest get the :mad: flights that report 11pm to get back something like 9 am the next day.
Is this fair? No it is not. Why should the high seniority people ALWAYS get good rosters and the others ALWAYS bad?? Are low seniority pilots condemned to fly night flights? And double sectors in the night? And have night DOH 7 times in one roster??
What is this? The Middle Ages? Slavery?
High seniority people will have a difficult time looking their colleagues and friends in the eyes after this.
The pilots are now divided into 2 groups. Privileged and non privileged. If that's what is supposed to be then I am sorry, I kind of lost the ball.
High seniority people with a sense of DIGNITY and self respect first, and respect to the others, should THEMSELVES push for alternating seniority in bidding. So that everyone is treated the SAME.

[High Energy]

My roster is the same. Nights, nights and more nights. All the stuff others don't want. :ugh: They should divide the pilot group into several sections and limit the 'guaranteed' request approvals to, lets say, 2. You can't have people awarded all their request untill everything is filled and then divide the rest over whoever is left.

Then every month or so rotate the groups around from nbr 1,3,3 to 2,1,3, 3,2,1 etc so that both seniors and juniors in their respective group have a fair chance at getting something descent once and a while.

BUT, we should give it a few months to let it settle down, tweak it a bit, and then we can properly judge. I'll propably be dead at that point... :sad:

[had-enough]

I'm not high with respect to seniority, but I still got a good roster.

[dubaigong]

Pole Shift,

What you are saying is not fair and it shows a great level of frustration and by consequence not at all a balanced comment on PBS...
First do you know how many of the high seniority pilots have got what they wanted ?
All I can tell you is that I know some of them who are not happy about what they have got according to their bids.
Also what has to be understood is that a seniority system is NEVER seen as being fair when you are at the bottom of the list but when you have been for years at the bottom and finally get closer to the top you feel like a fair situation to finally enjoy being there.
What should also be understood is that in an airline like FZ with no fleet upgrade possible ( single aircraft type ) , no salary increase according to the seniority , no specific benefits for being here for a long time it is difficult to blame those pilots to be happy to finally get a reward for being here for so long ( 5 years already for some of them )
So the real problem is the way the company wants or doesn't want to make sure the workforce is happy and keep them long term ?
You can not blame the high seniority for the result of PBS which is also due to many other factors like the ways we are allow to bid and the always increasing limitations put in place and very restrictive ( like the mandatory 1 day off in 6 days instead of 7 days before , 2 consecutive days off in 12 days instead of 14 days before , the 85 hours maximum in 28 days etc.... )
The only way to really know how many are happier than before PBS is to make a survey but for that you also need to give some time to assess the rosters in a few months and not only one.
And last but not least , I have never seen in my life a system that will please everybody , you will always have pilots not happy about it.
The first thing to do would be to agree with each other what we would like to have and then ACT to have it done by the company.... BUT look around you and find out how many pilots are really concerned by the situation of their fellows ?
Look at the best example ( according to me ) of a well known low cost company in Europe where almost each pilot got a different contract and this is lasting for more than 15 years without any real change due to only one thing that the manager of this company understood very quickly PILOTS ARE SELFISH and are only thinking short terms , own career and not about long term and group...
When this will be sort it out then you can expect to see improvement.

[pole shift]

Dubai gong
I know all about the restrictions. And of course. Senior people didn't get all of their 10 bids rather they got 5-6? Some people got none! And seniority? Senior guys are on scale A. So yes, they are rewarded more than the others.
And FZ is around almost 5 years, so we are not talking seniority of United, or BA or Lufthansa.
Talking of European low cost carriers, at least they have a balanced roster, 5 - 4 or similar. Nothing like here.
Bottom line: For all pilots of this airline, to have a fair roster, because I am sure you agree, no one should be treated preferentially - after all we all have families, or whatever, then ALTERNATING SENIORITY PBS would give the message that at least the pilots of this company are above all COLLEAGUES.
Have a look around you, talk to people and then you will get the feeling. It's absolutely pointless to hide behind excuses about 'yes but' and the senior guys bla bla bla... :=. It just proves my point that now the pilots are divided , privileged and not privileged.

[dubaigong]

Pole Shift,

I am not hiding behind anything and again who has decided to introduce different pay scales ? Not the most senior pilots.
Furthermore most of the pilot who joined FZ after , knew or should have known if they had done their homework.
When you plan to go far away from home to work , the least one can do is to make sure that all information are made available to them.
About the pilots being divided , it's not new it has been like that for a long time , I have been to most of the chief pilot's meeting and I can tell you that the pilots were already divided.
What about the nationality "problem" we have here... I have never been in a company where I could feel so much the tension between the American , Brazilian , British , Cypriots etc...
We are well divided and this was well before the PBS has been introduced.
And it is logical because of the agenda people joining have,
Most of the first officers joining in the beginning were looking mainly for a quick command upgrade and didn't care at all , at that time , about the conditions.
You have direct entry captains coming for the money they expect to save to improve their retirement package , to get some training upgrade or to try to jump later in another company to fly bigger aircraft.
Now you also have a good amount of pilots coming from turbo-prop looking for a good jet rating while earning a very good salary compared to what they could maybe get at home.
That is the main problem we have , no long term vision because most of the pilots are here with their own agenda for a period between 3 to 6 years waiting for an opportunity to go back home or jump in a long haul position or to retire...
At the end having a balanced roster would be only possible for me if they were able to produce a roster which take into consideration of the fact that every pilot in the company got , in a year , roughly the same amount of 4 sectors day , night flights , early morning flights , war zones flights , etc... which will probably never happen...
So what to do ???
But a blaming the most senior pilots for that situation is for sure not the best way to create a nice unity amongst the pilot group.
That's all I have to say about that subject , it will not be sorted out here on PPRUNE and needs to be addressed within the company with all the pilots.
I doubt though that there is a real will from the majority to do something.
You would be surprised to see how many are more than happy to be here and surely don't want to rock the boat.
I wish you the best for your fight but I strongly suggest that you change your strategy if you want to achieve something positive...

[pole shift]

Dubai gong
Thank you for your strong suggestion. It's not about my self, and its not my fight since there will be many more pilots joining. Having a united pilot force is what I would like to see ( wouldn't you?) but this PBS with its current form makes it extremely difficult.
But I have to agree with what you said about pilots having different agendas. And for new joiners from the turboprop or DECs it's a great opportunity indeed. But at the end of the day people will be tired with flying bad rosters every month whilst others don't.
Question is would the company care if pilots leave? I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Old King Coal]

dubaigong: Bravo and well said! :D

pole shift: one roster does not an average make, so why not let PBS bed in for a couple of months, eh?

Wrt getting changes made to it, I would caution you to remember that the Senior Flight Ops Management within FZ have always been American and (if I've got this right?) where they come from seniority is EVERYTHING and, accordingly, their prior implementations of, and experience with, PBS are entirely 'seniority based' (with no concept of 'rolling months', etc).

Now given that we're creatures of habit, I would suspect that KG & JV also want a familiar implementation of PBS within FZ. I'm likewise certain that JV himself would tell you that the longer you stay within the company (and the faster the company grows) the quicker you will rise up the seniority list and then you won't be complaining about the PBS system being entirely seniority based (and I'm pretty much using his own words when I say that). So, to avoid disappointment, you might choose to pick your battles on this matter v.carefully. ;)

[Vortac1]

How big is the pilot group currently at FD?