Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged [Archive] - Page 12

High Energy

25th Jan 2015, 11:28

It's ID 50&90 with EK, in eco and business. ID90 with Air Arabia and on Flydubai itself it's also ID50&90 in eco and business. No other airlines yet. I hardly use it so other Flydubai colleaugues pls correct me if I'm wrong.

Our own stafftravel policy has recently changed for the better. It now matches what we had with Air Arabia in terms of price. Saves a drive to Sharjah. :ok:

With Flydubai we can now check the actual loads a few months ahead and do it all online too, with EK the traffic light system was recently introduced. Far better than what we had previously which was nothing. We don't have the app the EK guys have to check EK loads. I believe the EK system has recently changed whereby you can only check actual loads 2 days prior but best to check that with a buddy at EK. Bear in mind we get lower priority on EK than the guy who cleans the toilets. No disprespect...

I believe we have a IATA audit in FEB so pending the outcome we might get Z-fares with many more airlines at some point this year. Again, not confirmed and it depends on the deals done with the other airlines.

So far it's a lot bette than it was and slowly improving further. :D

simba82

27th Jan 2015, 04:08

A Flydubai Boeing 737-800, registration A6-FEK performing flight FZ-215 from Dubai (United Arab Emirates) to Baghdad (Iraq), landed on Baghdad's runway 15L when shots, fired from the Al-Radwaniya area just south of the airport, hit the aircraft causing damage to the aircraft. The aircraft rolled out without further incident.

Local media report two passengers received injuries as result of three rounds of shots were fired.

Airport officials reported the aircraft received damage, there were no casualties.

The occurrence aircraft is still on the ground in Baghdad.

Hope Crew are fine probably must be a Ferry Flight back to DXB depending on Damage obviously.

picsou

27th Jan 2015, 16:16

Hello Flydubay pilots,

I've applied for a NTR DEC capt in october. Anybody has an idea of how long I should wait before expecting some answer ?
Many thanks

High Energy

28th Jan 2015, 04:53

On Flydubai;

ID50 is employee, spouse and 3 kids (<19yrs) AND 5 other people. (for those people only economy)
ID90 is same as above BUT NOT the 5 other people.

No buddy system undortunately. Wrt to EK/Air Arabia it is just you, spouse and 3 kids. (<19yrs)

samca

30th Jan 2015, 19:42

Hi chaps,

Anybody going the Assestment in Istambul next 4 and 5?

Cheers

powerpuff girlz

2nd Feb 2015, 13:52

Hi samca i m doin my assessment on 3 n 4 th in Istanbul will try and update you tomm.

too_much

4th Feb 2015, 13:46

Any idea on how long you wait to hear a response from FlyDubai/CTC after taking the Sim ride on day2? A friend of mine recently went through and she made it to the check ride but has not heard a thing since...

cccc

5th Feb 2015, 07:28

Hi all,

Anyone going to CTC UK on 18/2/2015?
I have read pretty much the whole forum about FZ, but any tips/info to prepare any better and pass the assessment?

Cheers!
cccc

Smoothee

5th Feb 2015, 23:17

Anyone else going to MIA?

skysod

6th Feb 2015, 09:58

Wear body armour and a tin helmet as this will indicate an indepth knowledge of the company!!:}:}

Smoothee

6th Feb 2015, 18:53

If anyone else is planning to be in MIA for the 23rd or 24th assessment, I will have a rental car. I am staying at the Holiday Inn Express KMIA. If you would like to get together and share your experience with the process, let me know. I would be happy to give you a ride if you need one. PM me if you like.

Vortex Thing

8th Feb 2015, 14:42

Skysod.

Yes we know some of the destinations as not our first choice. Yes we know some could even be considered a bit "tasty".

Lets be honest though. We all know just like there are three useless things in aviation there are also three certainties in life.

Inevitability number one that you have in life is that at some time you will die the next other certainty in life is that you will pay taxes. The last we all know and love is that if you buy a nurse more than two drinks on a night out you will get lucky.

Every other thing in life is uncertain.

With FZ we do however know that we get paid, what is in the contract and we get paid it on time. My pay has been late once by 48 hrs in 3 years. In quite literally every other airline I have worked in the pay has been incorrect, late or non existent. They also pay us more than BA and Lufthansa captains in the RHS of a B737 and more than double many European airlines when we are in the LHS.

So yeah we might get killed, c'est la vie! If Mrs VT gets the life insurance and the mini VTs school fees get paid then I've done my job dead or alive and they get the money. That is the reason that I put the time and effort into my career and is comfort enough for me. So if you are unhappy with the situation then leave! But don't try and put people who may not be so experienced i the region off.

The choices are simple, they give us money we decide if we accept the risk, it is hardly hidden. If we want the cash then that is the risk that comes with it. They have a choice when they join and don't have to join if you or they have better options then good for them.

Can you tell me of a better B737 job anywhere on the planet in a country where you would actually want to live?

Just for info as you clearly aren't in the know! Tin helmets are a little bit WW1. They went to steel for WW2 and have been carbon kevlar for many years now!

samca

8th Feb 2015, 16:13

Hi guys,

I want to share my experience with the Flydubai assesment in Istambul.

First: Presentation of the company as usual by Human Resources general manager. Standard like always. We were 4 guys, two spanish, one indian and one indionesian.

Second: Group exercise. first exercise we had to give ideas to the company for their expansion, second exercise to take 15 object from a list of items they provide we were in a desert island. Discuss about everything with the rest of the group and take decitions.

Lunch time. after lunch one guy knock out

Third: Afternoon, personal interview. We were asked about everything, personal and professional questions like usual.

After this, another guy out.

SECOND DAY

Simulator test. We were only two first officers so they sit both of us in the sim. Take off from Muscat airport Runway 26 climb until 3000´ft (No AP, FD and AT, thats mean fully manually), turn right intercept radial 320 of Muscat VOR. Then radar vectors for a RAW DATA approach RWY 26. Minimums you will not see RWY in sight so GO AROUND procedure. ENG Fail during go around. I continue flying and compensate the asymmetric power until flap retraction altitude (in their profiles 1500FT) then memory items and request from the other first officer ENG FAIL checklist (there was no fire/damage eng). Then they stop the simulator and they explain the second part of the simulator. We could use Autopilot in this phase. Second approach it was a LOC approach RWY 26 with ONE ENG. VNAV available. I completed the approach and in short final APU fire. I landed the airplane (ON GS all the time) stopped in the center of the runway and applied memory items for the APU fire. We call the tower and they said we had fire and smoke in the tail so Evacuation was necessary. I called for the checklist emergency evacuation and advise to evacuate for the forward exits of the plane.
We applied the checklist and finish the session. Small break and my colleague did his session and I did as PM.

Both of us fail the simulator. I feel very sad and I don´t understand why. There was 3 british TRI/TRE plus the girl of the agency back in our sim session. They don´t provide any feedback but it seems to be something wrong during my emergency evacuation exercise.

Now my feeling of everything. I thought that we did both a good job in the sim, taking into account that both of us are first officer I think we have to be evaluated as first officers. In the briefing all the time they repeat you all the time do not worry about your SOPs, we only want to see your flying skills and CRM blablabla... it is not true. Honestly I don´t know what they are looking from me? I think we operate the airplane in a very safe manner all the time. We tried to coordinate ourselves and we did it. Our call outs were differents as well as our SOPs but finally we did a good job. Very strange everything, very very strange. I can not recommend any friend to assist the process, for me it is not fair.
So keep pushing my friends and try to forget this bad experience in my life.

Cheers and good luck for everybody.

Gusz

8th Feb 2015, 18:53

@samca

First of all , Im sorry you didn't get the job. Hopefully this is a reality check for you and hopefully realize that there are not superior pilots out there, we all fly to the best of our abilities and always with the idea of coming back to our loved ones. Cheers and good luck on your career.

samca

8th Feb 2015, 19:24

Thank you very much Gusz, this things sometimes happened and you don't know why. But still having confident in me and I have others assestments so let see what happen

Meathead Pilot

9th Feb 2015, 01:31

Hi everyone, Quick question for a friend! Are there any restrictions for pilots of Iranian nationality to work at Flydubai?

BritishGuy

9th Feb 2015, 06:48

No restrictions 'officially'. We have pilots from Iranian origin, but they all have 2nd nationalities (passports). I don't think we have any Iranian pilots from Iran with Iranian passports only. I might be wrong though.

Vortex Thing

9th Feb 2015, 08:26

Samca,

They want pilots and assessments cost a lot of money. You say there were 3 TRI/TREs there and the chances are that they all had a good chat afterwards as to how they thought you had done.

There is always more to it than just flying the plane and it is likely that they weren't happy with your communication, CRM, decision making, etc rather than it having anything to do with your physically ability to fly the plane.

They would also expect experience and decision making commensurate with your experience level so if you are a 3000hr B737 Pilot then the reality is that they would expect you to make decisions and fly like a captain. If you were 501hrs on type and 1501hrs TT then they will expect less from you.

One of the other prevalent things that is obvious from your post is that your English could have easily been a factor in all of this as well. I'm not saying it was as I wasn't there but it would have an effect if your spoken English is similar in standard to your written English.

Not getting through when you think that you should have does not automatically make a process unfair I have numerous friends here who were turned down by FZ and who are now at Emirates and Etihad so it may be that they also just didn't think that you would fit the airline.

You have also made numerous posts in the past about whether or not you thought it worthwhile to pay for assessment, whether the airline was far, whether it was for you or not due to family/staff travel/ commuting, etc, etc have a good look at yourself and see whether it was likely that any of that came through in your assessment overall. Did you answer the questions a bit hesitantly and seem unconvinced?

All of these things to an experienced recruiter show up much more easily that you would like to think it is likely that there was more to it than just the sim.

Good luck in wherever you end up but use the opportunity to reflect on how you conducted the entire selection process and take something away from it for when you go to Qatar, Etihad, Emirates etc interviews which I am sure you will aim for if/when you have the requirements.

samca

9th Feb 2015, 09:15

Dear Vortex

If you are working in Flydubai you must know that It is a eliminatory proccess thats mean that if you don't pass the First exercise dynamic group your are out, if you don't pass the second one which is a personal interview IN ENGLISH you are out. I don't care my grammar you understand becouse It doesn't matter to much I was able to pass this 1 hour interview in english with british people making me all kind of questions. I've been flying 3 years with British pilots and I know you are very proud about your language but you must know It was not the reason. My level 5 was enough believe me. And It is enough each time that I Fly to USA, so you can be completly sure that my ENGLISH was not the problem during my simulator test. Becouse if they want Pilots with a perfect grammar just they would say level 6, and for this Assestment as far as I know level 4 is enough.
Second, i don't understand very good what yo say about my doubts and personal thinking expressed in other posted here in this forum. Do you think that influenced in something the sim? I don't think so. You are trying to look for reason to put over my shoulders that I fail the sim for myself and the people that did my check are fully fair and as I told you and repeat you It is very difficult to pass a simulator with 4 people back watching each decition you take.
Also I repeat you Vortex, you say that It is not only the flying skills what they are looking for, and as I said our CRM was very good taking into account our very different SOPs and standard call outs, we prepared for the sim the night before in the hotel looking for our differences and trying to see how to connect our Ops. So we flew, navigate and com safe, but not using flydubai procedures just our procedures, It always will be someone telling why you celan at this altitude instead this one, or why you do nothing in an engine flameout until flap retraction altitude, my answer is becouse I used the SOPs of my company and everybody in the briefing room were agree. My feeling as I said It is not fair at all becouse they try to be very friendly during the briefing and after in the sim they are going to look for any fail yo do for knocking down. It was not fair, very strange everything. Anyway It is my First Assestment after a long time and I expect more transparency for the rest. Let see,

Regards and happy flights

Vortex Thing

9th Feb 2015, 11:33

Yes Samca,

I am more than aware what the recruitment process is for my own airline.

Re the process being eliminatory yes I accept that you can get cut at any stage in the process. This however does not mean that you have done anything other than meet the minimum standard required for that phase.

Here is an example let's say there are 4 phases all of which have a pass mark of 75%. It is entirely possible for someone to get 75% in every phase, or for someone to get 99% in every phase and from the outside you as a candidate would not see the difference. However the system is likely flexible enough that should someone say get 99% in 3 phases and get 74% in one of the last phases I am sure they would rethink what outcome they came to with that candidate. On the other hand if someone had actually just gotten through each phase then they may well say that though the general standard had been achieved there was not enough overall to make an offer. This would be normal for any company's selection process at this level.

Yes the company say we will accept Level 4. This however is not because that is what they seek. It is to not eliminate candidates who are well above that level but do not have a piece of paper saying so! That is the absolute minimum requirement, not what they are looking for.

Good example in the UK the Royal Air Force say they are looking for candidates with 5 GCSEs, the majority are university graduates or at least have A levels the British Army says they need 2x A Level's however 85% of cadets entering the academy are university graduates. The minimum is just like a flying one there is no requirement to go to it before you go around!

The logic of your argument is that you have an ATPL and a type rating therefore you should automatically pass the assessment as you can fly the plane legally! You say your English is no problem, chap I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but have you read your last post. Don't be touchy about it accept it, yes lucky old me I'm a native English speaker, etc, etc but the fact is you are difficult to understand.

I was trying to offer you some encouragement and help for you as a fellow professional pilot. You take it however you like. The fact remains they didn't interview you for no reason, on paper you must have the requirements. The fact that YOU believe your sim performance was fine does not mean that they did. So the reality is that something somewhere in the selection process was not what they were looking for. I was simply suggesting you look at yourself and try and find what is was as if you believe that they simply did not select you for no reason then that would not entirely make sense. There must be a reason and you should endeavour to find it within yourself so that you can take it forward at your next selection. The reason is likely not just your sim. If however you wish to believe that they spent thousands of dollars putting you through a process to say NO just because they felt like it then you crack on with that and go back to being angry with me....

what-to-do

9th Feb 2015, 12:43

Samca,

Having read your post, I am of the opinion that your English is absolutely fine. In fact, I would go further and suggest it is better than some of the people I fly with.

I wouldn't take too much notice of what some people write on this thread.

Good luck with your job hunt.

WTD

too_much

9th Feb 2015, 14:12

Can anyone shed any light on the recent assesment in Dubai at end of January I have a few friends who didn't pass their simulator & a few who have heard nothing for 2 weeks straight...

Is there a back log in the recruitment office? Just any information I could pass on to the hopefulls.

samca

9th Feb 2015, 17:58

Thank you very much what to do, I know what is happening here. Anyway I'll keep pushing and I'm completly sure everything will go fine in the following assestment.

skysod

10th Feb 2015, 08:00

VT, me thinks you take my comments a little too seriously!! :):)

Vortex Thing

10th Feb 2015, 17:09

Skysod
Not so. It is not that I took the comment seriously. I appreciate sarcasm as much as the next man. I just thought that with the current hyperbole surrounding the issue to which you allude the timing was not as appropriate as it may be for a public forum.

Had you made the same comment to me down at the club over a drink. I would have laughed and likely joined in with some witty repartee. However we out here are party to life out here and those looking in from the outside do not find it quite so easy to distinguish mirth from angst.

Just my take.

What -to - Do
You are right there are people here with worse English than Samca. Two wrongs however do not make a right. To say his English is fine is simply not true and you know it. I purely said it could have been a contributing factor.

Most things are contributory straws to the camels back as opposed to outright back breakers in cases of assessments for fully qualified pilots but it is hardly unreasonable to surmise that it had absolutely no bearing on the outcome either be it for this particular day or any other future assessment IMHO.

Too Much
No news is good news with our assessment process. They are just very very undermanned and overwhelmed in recruitment.

Blue system

11th Feb 2015, 07:43

Any truth in the rumor about the 16 Captains going to Qatar and resigned only to be denied by QR after a phone call was made :ugh:

olster

11th Feb 2015, 07:55

Probably not true - QR has a no poaching policy with EK - very reliable source.

samca

11th Feb 2015, 11:31

Dear Vortex,

If your company thinks like you and my english is so very difficult to understand as you said, the best thing they can do It is to contract native english speakers pilots only, It is Easy. I don't share nothing you are exposing here sorry. And I'm more than happy not going there. But just remember something, with the economy in Europe getting better they will regret to threat professional pilots in this way. Rgds

olster

11th Feb 2015, 15:53

probably the same with FZ as well....

imedi

14th Feb 2015, 00:58

Interviewing in Miami at the end of February with CTC. It sounds like it's just a Q&A, aptitude test, group exercise, "evidence based" interview, and then if I make day 2 a 737 sim ride. According to the email candidates selected in Miami won't have to go to visit Dubai prior to starting work. I'm suprised though that there is no medical screening at this stage or technical exam.

Also call me lazy but I can't go through this whole thread and find if we do get hired how do we convert our FAA ATP to a UAE certificate. Should we plan several months of training or just get a quick type in the 73 and good to go.

too_much

14th Feb 2015, 04:01

For Non TR it's about 3 months training
For TR it's about 6 weeks

Flydubai will convert your FAA licence.
You need to sit and pass the GCAA airlaw exam, after a few weeks GCAA will issue the new license.

You are correct with your statement about the interview process.

There are No technical exams during the interview.

During your training you can expect a few technical exams.

note they say they can withdraw there offer of employment at any time including during your training.

Best of luck

jetstreem

14th Feb 2015, 08:24

@ imedi

Re. Not visiting Dubai before starting work... Be careful. Maybe you've visited before, or worked elsewhere in the gulf. Or have friends here. In which case go for it. But I would just be a little wary of coming out here if you have absolutely no experience of the region. It's not to everyone's tastes. Life here can drive you a little bit mad, and being tied in for 3 years could make it an expensive interview if you don't like it! (Maybe just come for a quick holiday if you get a job offer?)

And in my personal opinion, if you're American and therefore get taxed on your earnings here, it's not that attractive anymore. A year or two ago the prospects for quick advancement in the company were ok. Now, not so good. It's going to take a lot longer to climb up the seniority and get tolerable rosters. There's no other increase in benefit for length of service. No pension. No increase in leave and no part time working. Dont get me wrong, it's not terrible here. But it's not amazing either.

The forecast is for about 100 pilots to join this year. A lot of them will probably already have start dates. So assume you're joining at the bottom of 350 or so FO's/Captains, and the top 10-20% get good rosters and do the math from there.

You have been warned! Hope you make a decision you end up happy with. All the best.

Vortac1

14th Feb 2015, 13:35

I second most of what Jetstreem posted. Specially about coming over to Dubai first and checking it out before you commit. If you have a family, then its a must to bring the wife over to check it out also IMO.

The outlook posted above on rosters and upward movement on seniority is spot on I think. Whether it works for you or not depends basically on where you are coming from and what QOL you have currently.

Only one small note regarding taxes: If you're american, you will only be taxed on that income that exceeds $99,200 (for 2014 fiscal year at least...), if you make less than that and meet the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion requirements, you wont have to pay taxes on that income. With that said, if you make more than that figure, then you will have to pay taxes, but on the surplus only, and at the income bracket that you would fall on based on the total amount earned for the year.

Best of luck!
V

imedi

14th Feb 2015, 15:34

Thanks for the info fellas. I'm Non type rated so it would be the 3 month training for me. I wonder what pay is like during that time?

I think for 2015 I would not qualify for income tax evasion because I'll have lived and worked in US for at least 2 and a half months. Doesn't CTC know pilots don't have personalities, we love technical exams! But seriously I would visit dubai before joining, I just was wondering if the interview process would continue in Dubai. I've been dealing with a long drawn out interview process with another airline, and I'm kind of fed up with it.

Vortac1

14th Feb 2015, 16:49

For whatever it's worth, I was also non-typed and I was flying the line after 2 months, ymmv.

You could also qualify for Income Tax Exclusion (not evasion,Lol!) even if you don't spend a full year outside of U.S., it would have to be pro-rated though.

Give this a read, good info regarding taxes for US expats.:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p54.pdf

During training you will get paid basic salary, transportation allowance and housing allowance (first monthly housing allowance depends on whether you choose to stay on company accommodation for the first 30 days or whether you wish to find your own accommodation from the get-go and instead collect the full housing allowance at the beginning of your second month ...). The only pay you will not receive during training is your flight pay, for obvious reasons.

irockoo7

14th Feb 2015, 20:08

what are the present upgrade times for a newly joined f/o??

does prev exp on command help in getting a boost on the seniority??

i have heard rumours of first officers starting command training within two years of joining

imedi

14th Feb 2015, 21:17

Haha yes I meant exclusion! Hopefully Uncle Sam doesn't read this forum

High Energy

15th Feb 2015, 11:07

@ irockoo7 Presently I'd say about 2 years depending on a few factors like your LPC/OPC grades.

Minimum requirements to upgrade are; (amongst others)
- 4,000 hours total time;

- 1,000 hours B737 time including a minimum of 500 hours in flydubai aircraft;

- Two successful OPC/LPC check rides with flydubai;

Minimum 12 months in flydubai since successful initial Line Check

Some guys choose to upgrade as quick as possible whilst others delay it to enjoy the better rosters due to their higher seniority in the right seat. I know quite a few who upgraded between 18-24 months.

irockoo7

15th Feb 2015, 19:19

thanks you soo much for the info!! just got an acceptance mail today from recruitment.. looking forward to a joining date now!

jackcarls0n

16th Feb 2015, 09:21

@imedi and @irockoo7

Just a question regarding your experience and profile. I'm building my experience to work for flyDubai to be closer to home country.

Thanks

irockoo7

17th Feb 2015, 06:35

Hey i have about close to 3900 TT.. More than 3500 on the 737NG

I believe you will get a call as long as you meet the minimum requirements given on the site..

I know people who have got a call letter who just had the minimum requirements completed.

syrus

17th Feb 2015, 11:59

Hello

How long is the waiting time for the "positive or negative screening mail"?

imedi

17th Feb 2015, 14:12

Hey Jack I have 2800 TT with 2100 turbine. Other stuff includes CFI, airline ground instructor, and BS degree. Hope that info helps

Calmcavok

17th Feb 2015, 15:17

and BS degree.

Media studies?

DILLIGAF.

17th Feb 2015, 15:26

that made me laugh

jackcarls0n

18th Feb 2015, 16:20

@imedi and @irockoo7

Thanks for the information

I have TT of 2500 Hrs and only 500 hrs on Jet above the 10 Tonne Weight Limit. So short on that by 500 hours most probably that will take me 8 months to year to get to the requirement. However, I do have 1200 Hrs on (Single Engine Turbine) but it is below the weight limit category.

@imedi- if you don't mind, what kind of hours do you have on turbine? PIC, SIC and is it Turbo Prop or Jet?

Smoothee

18th Feb 2015, 16:48

imedi,

I will be in MIA too. My assessment starts on the 23rd. PM me. I have about 5 other guy's emails who will be there then.

See you in MIA.

Congrats on getting the interview.

Smoot-hee

TyRod

19th Feb 2015, 11:24

hey guys,

Do not get it, I fill the application online but at the end it is written ( unfortunately you do not meet the requirements..blablabla".
That is weird because I meet requirements and I am pretty sure I filled the application correctly.
Any clue (s)?

irockoo7

19th Feb 2015, 18:39

The negative mail comes usually within a weeks time, whereas the positive takes about 14 working days.. Also consider weekends in the ME are different... But i have friends who have received the mails on the weekend...

VHFRT

20th Feb 2015, 11:35

Are the assessments in Hamilton still happening? Haven't heard from them and it's been two months since applying.

Little hard as an Aussie to drag myself to Miami or Istanbul! But if NZ isn't on then I might have to.

syrus

21st Feb 2015, 15:21

Last stage was on 30.1 still no mail ��

cccc

22nd Feb 2015, 17:55

Hi all,

What can I expect on the final interview in Dubai?
What is the pass rate at this stage?
All tips and info are welcome.
Cheers!

flyingcamel

23rd Feb 2015, 11:56

Dubai interview is very similar to the initial interview with CTC to be honest. Expect to be probed about your motivations for choosing FlyDubai and Dubai specifically over other opportunities/locations but I'd have thought that's to be expected. If you're coming in order to jump ship to one of the ME majors after your bond period,my they will sniff it out!

Relax, they seem a nice bunch from my experiences thus far. However, they do seem swamped a little on the recruitment side so be very patient when contacting them.

Best of luck to all. There seem to be plenty of positions to go around, and all joiners below me on the seniority list will be extremely welcome! :ok:

irockoo7

24th Feb 2015, 16:48

How is the seniority list decided??

jetstreem

25th Feb 2015, 18:13

When you join, you're at the bottom.

The only way is up.

Bear in mind, if you join now, you've already got 300 captains, and another 300 potential captains ahead of you, if you ever want to upgrade. FZs expansion plans are not infinite. Do some research on projected eventual fleet size and crewing levels. See if you're likely to ever make it.

And I see you're from Mumbai. I don't know your history, but if you're ex-spice jet, be careful. There was a lot of people joined from there, and left shortly after when their (lack of) standards became apparent. Just be honest about your experience levels and you'll be ok.

You have been warned!

justclimb

26th Feb 2015, 07:06

Jetstream, care to elaborate on the Spicejet pilots who had to leave. That's quite an aspersion you are casting. I have flown with a bunch of pilots from all nationalities and Spicejet pilots are no different as capabilities go.It's a professional forum and if you have a grouse with a Spicejet pilot, please don't paint everyone with the same brush.:=:=

Vortac1

26th Feb 2015, 10:28

Jetstreem is stating facts, don't take it personal.

If you're coming from spicejet, I wouldn't be surprised if HR over-scrutinized you're application due to recent events.

It was those Spicejet guys that gave a bad rep to their former company.

Maragnao

26th Feb 2015, 10:35

May I ask you guys called for interview your experience?
I have 3500 total, 1500 turboprop MCC and not even a mail!!!
Thks

justclimb

26th Feb 2015, 11:09

Vortac, since you jumped into the fray, care to elaborate. I know of just one pilot who left as jetstreem mentioned. Since you both are using plurals, please elaborate. There are only single digit Spicejet pilots to my knowledge in FZ. For such a small percentage of pilots to be singled out is:confused: this has all the makings of a whisper campaign. :confused:

jetstreem

27th Feb 2015, 02:38

I'm only stating facts. If you've got a job offer then you've done well. If you can get through a year or more with FZ then you'll have done even better, and if you can get a command eventually then Bravo! :D

There are some ex spicy pilots with the company who are excellent. There are others who weren't as good and overstated their experience levels and were found out very quickly. They left. Fact.

I imagine HR are looking a little more closely at applications from that direction now, and so if you've made it through then well done.

You'll learn more when you get here!

justclimb

27th Feb 2015, 07:29

Jetsreem, it'll be worthwile to get your facts right. One swallow doesn't make a summer, similiarly one pilot doesn't make an airline.

what-to-do

27th Feb 2015, 09:44

justclimb,

WTF are you smoking? furthermore, what's your point?

As I understand it, the post is just reflecting recent events here at FZ. There is no underlying suggestion that pilots from any other airline are not as good or as well trained as any pilot here at FZ.

If, as you suggest, our facts are wrong, then please enlighten us. Clearly you know more than everyone else that I know does.

jetstreem

1st Mar 2015, 04:09

Vortac1 & what-to-do: Thanks. You clearly work for the same airline as I do, and know about the same events as the majority of the pilots here!

Justclimb - if you also work for FZ then just ask around. You'll hear very quickly what happened. If you don't work here, then ask someone who does.

Please also note, that all I've done is relay some hints about events that have happened. I've also offered encouragement, useful warnings and hints as to how to get a good start in the airline.

If that's not what this forum is for, then I'll be quiet.

Blue system

2nd Mar 2015, 13:52

I am going to give you my OBJECTIVE view on Indian/subcontinent pilots in FZ.

1. There are good ones with good cooperation and good handling.
2. Most are have alot to learn when it comes to CRM and just plain common sense.
3. The "backstabbing" culture is, as it seems, alive and kicking. Generally never trust and Indian pilot.
4. The Indian pilots who "cheated" their way in FZ is 100% true.
5. The issue is not going away anytime soon because we have a pilot shortage soo watch this space :ugh:

Old King Coal

2nd Mar 2015, 15:17

Now might be a good time to break out one of these and duck behind a parapet! :ouch:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Pvi2168gL._SX342_.jpg

justclimb

3rd Mar 2015, 00:29

Thanks OKC I'll take that and make a tactical retreat.

Apparently there are a lot of cultural issues at FZ and they are now crawling out of the woodwork.

Kefuddle

3rd Mar 2015, 10:25

OKC, referring back to an old safety ACN. I believe the correct manoeuvre in these situations is the "Duck and Dive" manoeuvre :}

too_much

3rd Mar 2015, 13:08

Guys it doesn't matter if you are from India or Iceland if you wanna work in Dubai you need to have the ability to think differently & adapt to many cultures and nationalities.

Things are done differently all over the world, what may seem silly to you may be perfectly logical to another.

It doesn't matter if you are black, white, Male or female flying the B737 for FZ is not rocket science.

ABBOT

3rd Mar 2015, 16:59

OKC, thought it was an Iraqi wedding party hat

Kefuddle

4th Mar 2015, 07:50

You'd have to sit on it to be effective for Levant ops.

captain.weird

10th Mar 2015, 08:31

Guys are there any hirings going on from the CAE Type Qualification programme?

Any lucky ones?

High Energy

10th Mar 2015, 08:41

Quite a lot I heard. But I don't know the totals before the assessment.

migair54

11th Mar 2015, 22:55

I have applied but I never had any information from them, I have 6.000 hours and PIC on ATR, do they call this kind of profile?? or they want only jet hours??

According to the minimums in the page I should be ok.

aka the aviator

14th Mar 2015, 10:54

Hi guys,

I have an interview in April in Southampton, been reading this thread and there are some interesting information's here. Thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts everybody it is really helpful. I plan to do the same regardless of the outcome.

dubaigong

14th Mar 2015, 12:42

Hello Aka the aviator...

I am not sure we are all gays !!!
That could even be seen as an insult for some people.
I hope you will pay more attention during your interview and sim check than when typing your message here , if not you may be disappointed by the result...

Non rev

14th Mar 2015, 20:57

How can ones self respect allows them to go for an interview and pay 300 quids?
I know they are charging for sim time and I just can't believe some of you are willing to pay for it..... They won't even reimburse if you fail the interview :ugh:

aka the aviator

15th Mar 2015, 10:50

Point taken :)
I never meant to be insulting to anybody.
Anyway I will make my point to share interview experience here (disappointing or not) so maybe somebody could benefit from it.

Whitste

17th Mar 2015, 17:47

Hi all,

I recently attended the Miami assessment, and just over a week ago received the good news that I was accepted for the position of first officer, and am now in the hiring pool.

I read further back that on average the wait time for a class date was around 6-8 months.

Just curious if this is still the time frame that guys are waiting for a class?

Also what sort of a wait time to receive an email with the class date from getting the acceptance email?

Thanks

High Energy

18th Mar 2015, 04:42

There was a brief gap in training a few months back where no class started. This obviously had a knock on effect and they were running on full steam shortly after with a class starting every week. The cadets we're getting require a lot more training capacity than direct entry for rated/non rated pilots. For instance they need 90 sectors line training oposed to 20-25 for non rated direct entry pilots.

mukalel

23rd Mar 2015, 13:01

Does any one know how many people are still waiting on a class date before the february interviewees?

flyer19832007

23rd Mar 2015, 14:19

@transport jock.

Is that tentative June course your friend might be on TR or NTR?

Last I heard the last course was end of May.

Thanks

mukalel

27th Mar 2015, 12:36

Yeah, he has a May start date now and it is for NTR.

Any latest and greatest at fz???

cccc

27th Mar 2015, 13:00

Hi!

A few days ago I received my pass mail as non type-rated. In the mail said that I'm officially in the holding pool till I receive a confirmed starting date, which could be in May. But till then, nothing is confirmed.
See you in DXB!

Soft Altitude

27th Mar 2015, 15:01

Hello CCCC, could you kindly shed a bit of light on the current interview process, please ? You can also send me a mail if you wish. Many thanks in advance.

seven3heaven

30th Mar 2015, 17:10

MusingMonk,

There were a number of guys that cheated their way into the left seat at FlyDubai with falsified logbooks. Nationality is not important. They were found out in the simulator when they struggled to deal with standard procedures. This is factual information, If you need it confirmed pop in and speak to the Chief.

masalama

31st Mar 2015, 04:45

OK, so logic is a pilot with below standard abilities or maybe suspect hours, yes the race must be like that , all pilots from that country should be blacklisted and branded with hot irons:D:D

Let's apply that logic to other races , OK , all germans get depressed ,let's send them back , all canadians may continue below minima , no canadians , don't get me started on turkish, americans, malaysian, indonesian etc etc you get the picture .

If someone falsifies his/her logbook , please throw the rule book at him/her and put that person in prison for endangering lives and impersonation .The Indian DGCA have cracked the whip and have done a major exercise to weed out the liars a couple years back. That'll be a deterrent to all potential liars .

If someone's lacking in standards and not making the grade , if the resources are available , retrain , otherwise tell the person sorry you're not trainable and upto your company's standards and that's that.

But please, let's leave the generalizations to media and so called experts, it is a professional forum after all....

masalama :ok:

Vortex Thing

31st Mar 2015, 10:21

Monk,

Do you trust business opportunity from a Nigerian Investment Company in the same light as one in Berlin?

Do you hold London Centre in the same regard as Calcutta ACC?

Do you trust a chinese watch as much as a Swiss Watch?

Do you trust a fart?

Don't make this a race issue. No one is saying that ALL X are Y or vice versa people are merely stating facts and saying that a disproportionate amount of those whose credentials are not quite what they seem on the surface come from certain airlines in a country where corruption is one of the leading issues dealt wiht in the papers, in politics and in reality.

Those are the facts, people are often painted with a broad brush and this is not fair in anyway shape or form and is not to be encouraged or supported but the facts remain the facts until someone makes them not facts anymore!

It takes many drops of rain to make a river!

masalama

31st Mar 2015, 16:39

VT , as much as you try to justify your line of thinking as not racist, I'm sorry it is .
rac·ism/ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Comparing an Indian pilot's ability to demonstrate competency and credentials versus say a "first" world pilot to a watch made in china v Switzerland is racist and unbalanced.You say perception, I say racist and it fits the above definition perfectly.

It means an Indian pilot would have to work very hard to constantly prove his/her credentials and standards whereas a first world pilot is entitled to have a bad day just because of what his/her passport's colour is. If you or your company "perceives" applicants and employees based on their country's corruption index or investment scams rather than on individual merit , God help those poor third world pilots .

Happy flydubaiing folks :ok:
masalama.

Smoothee

31st Mar 2015, 22:46

David, I was recently successful at a US assessment. I prepped using www.latestpilotjobs.com It is inexpensive, accurate and completely worth your time. No need to worry about hydroplaning. Just relax, be yourself and enjoy the interview. I really enjoyed my interview and thought everyone was really nice. I am looking forward to my class date. Best of luck to you.

Vortex Thing

1st Apr 2015, 00:54

Masalama and Monk,

Racism would be implying that people from India are a different race to people from England! There are black and white Europeans, Africans, Asians and middle easterners. Take a look at each nations sporting teams!

It is you who are the racist if that is what you think.

I did not mention ethnicity, colour or creed I mentioned nationality. Do you think that many of the families driving around here in the UAE without their children strapped into a car seat come from Germany or UK? Do you think that everyone from UK and or Germany is white anglo saxon and protestant?

The ethnicity of someone is not the same as national traits. Don't sink to base levels to defend the truth from what it is. What I stated above is perfectly true. The Global Corruption Index will pretty much verify half of it and the sale and resale value of a Swiss watch more of it!

I specifically said lets not make this about race because it isn't about race. No one is saying that Indian pilots are not good pilots, no one is saying that French pilots are not good pilots, or Swiss or Australian, etc.

What they are saying is that Indian is a notoriously corrupt country and that there have been a significant amount of applications that have been found wanting when tested fully from some that specific country. This is not the same as all Indian pilots falsify their credentials.

I like everyone here has had the great pleasure of flying with the pilots of all nationalities we have here numerous of whom are Indian and none of whom fly any differently to anyone else here. In fact many of whom are very experienced ex mil pilots for whom I hold high regard.

They however to a man say the same thing, they are upset that people come here make stuff up and ruin it for other pilots as it gives people who do not deserve it a bad name.

I agree, I cringe with embarrassment sometimes when certain British types appear on holiday be it in Spain, The Canaries or even here in Dubai as I am a little embarrassed by their behaviour and do not like to be tarred with the same brush just by being British. There is nothing wrong with admitting that every nation has it faults. Some nations are good at some things and others other things. This is nothing to do with ability.

So get over the perception of corruption as being unfair. It isn't it is one of the Indians governments biggest targets by their own admission. Don't pretend it doesn't exist, acknowledge it and say how you don't agree with it and do your part in changing it by your actions.

Or you can sit their calling me a racist which isn't really going to change anyones perception other than your own. Trust me when I say you couldn't be much further from the truth. I do of course love the fact that you assume that I am not of Indian heritage and just happen to be British. Which to be fair is entirely possible as that would describe almost 1.5 million Brits about 2.5% of the UK population.

VT

what-to-do

1st Apr 2015, 03:44

Rewind a little,

The point being made was that a small number of pilots from the same country were let go recently. By all accounts their ability in the SIM did not match their experience (on paper). Further investigations revealed discrepancies in their paperwork and the pilots were terminated (not literally).

Now, apart from a post from Blue system, who posted something which was rather unkind, divisive and yes, even racist, the thread is just reflecting the issue I make reference to.

However, this is not the first time something like this has happened here at FZ. I am happy to be corrected on this, but a similar situation occurred 4-5 years ago, with pilots from the very same country.

A quick google search will reveal a plethora of articles relating to pilots in India with fake licenses. Most of these articles are written by Indian newspapers, is that racist? Now, if the Indian government and the DGCA admit that this is an issue, why is this subject taboo on a pilot forum?

"In the wake of the fake pilot scare, licenses of 3,000 to 4,000 pilots are being scrutinised by the DGCA," said Civil Aviation secretary Nasim Zaidi.

Indian skies safe despite 'fake' pilots, says regulator (http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian-skies-safe-despite-fake-pilots-says-regulator-570315)

India may have 4000 'fake' pilots (http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-may-have-4000-fake-pilots-449891)

dubaigong

1st Apr 2015, 05:52

MusingMonk

There is an interesting article in the Gulf News ( Tuesday March 31 , page A22 ) about cheating during exams in Indian schools.
It seems to be a national sport , maybe you should write to the Gulf News to point out how racist they are...

LostinT2DXB

1st Apr 2015, 11:28

Just to be fair, the company has also kicked at least one Serbian pilot to the curb for lying about his hours. In general the company avoids hiring Russians, and very few Austronaughts. Is it racism, bias, or just good business:cool:

masalama

1st Apr 2015, 13:52

Vortex thing, fair enough , a much more balanced post I must say.
As more indian pilots join the like of the big three and other smaller carriers in the ME , these issues will get sorted out I'm sure.
The lure of the money on offer and a chance to escape the bureaucracy and craziness that is India will always tempt pilots from here as can be seen from the recent roadshow EK had at delhi ....
Masalama 👍👍

Mr Boombastick

19th Apr 2015, 15:59

Hi,

Does anyone know if things are moving for Type Rated FO's?

Not been much said on this thread about it for a while.

Thanks

cccc

19th Apr 2015, 20:21

Hi,
I don't know about type-rated FO's...
I know that for the time being there are no start dates planned for non type-rated FO's, till further notice. Everybody is being put in the holding pool...
I know this, because I've been put in this holding pool.
But things can change quickly...

JACK14

20th Apr 2015, 23:27

Hello CCCC how long have you been in the holding pool ???

cccc

20th Apr 2015, 23:33

I've been swimming for a month in the holding pool

Skud Run

24th Apr 2015, 08:02

Last year, me and a few guys were held in the pool for almost 6 months with no word when to expect a start. Then BAM, you start in 3 weeks. So good luck.

Piloto2011

25th Apr 2015, 09:20

Hello there, I meet all their requirements save the 1,000 hours EFIS but am now building these hours. Has anyone intel on when is the earliest one can apply? I am asking because some carriers accept applications from applicants short of a few hundred hours so long those are flown while going through selection and possibly swiming in holding pool. Many thanks for help. :)

henriksch

27th Apr 2015, 15:45

Quick question for the FD pilots?
Knowing that it only happened twice, bit did FD ever share any of their profits like EK (sometimes) do?

Vortex Thing

28th Apr 2015, 21:58

Piloto
The system has a computer as a gate guardian. It has not been given any variables to my knowledge only aboslutes.

When you apply if you put that you have 800hrs and it requires 1000 hrs you will simply be rejected. However you will have an application number, you can update that application and therefore though some carriers encourage you to apply when you are close the reality is that your CV wont pop up at CTC or any form of human filter until you reach the number that the firm has set.

Trust me I know how frustrating it is to be 1/2 or 3 hundred hours short of something and have seemingly no way to get the hours you need to get the interview. I also know that it is catch 22 if you don't have the hours you can't apply, the airline is desperate for hours and you just want the job. The even more harsh reality being that you will likely not be a different pilot at 1001 hrs than you were at 999hrs.

The facts however are simple, the world is not fair, life is not fair and fdb mirrors the world and life combined. Get the hours, apply and get in the queue. You'll be surprised how quickly you get them. It took some of us 10 yrs to get a job like this you will get your chance whenyour number comes up.

Henriksch
We don't do financial motivation here. If you're coming as an FO the be prepared to save nothing but live an okay life, in fact better than home okay but wiht its drawbacks. If you're coming as a captain then expect to make enough to live a nice life and deal with the future from the small remaining surplus( if you have children) If you are single and or have no kids then welcome to Cash Cow Airlines. Re profit share, really sore point along with pay rises this year.

Next thign you will be asking if we can park in a car park at work?

Good Luck
VT

Horntail

29th Apr 2015, 04:48

Henriksch,

Two years ago the company awarded three weeks of basic pay as a bonus based on the results of the fiscal year 2012. Since then a profit share scheme has been established but the company hasn't met the targets for the last couple of years. Are the targets realistic? Well, there are different opinions on that.

Furthermore and in all fairness: You will be able to live a good life and also put away money. Even if you are an F/O. Myself: Four bed house, two kids in school, two cars, traveling abroad at least 2-3 times a year and putting away money.

HT

flyingcamel

29th Apr 2015, 06:42

Mr Boombastic,

When I started, we were 4 non TR and 4 TR. One of the TR applicants was called at a weeks notice (ish) as they had a drop out. I believe this is fairly common so it will depend on your current notice period as to whether you may get a short notice call. If you have no notice period or a very short one give them a call regularly, you may be in luck!

As an aside, two of the TR'd guys were SJ LHS. Both are extremely switched on guys and I for one am looking forward to flying the line with the both of them.

Piloto2011

29th Apr 2015, 12:43

Vortex,

Thank you very much.

Like the ones you already pointed out, I am also closing in on ten years working towards meeting FD's requirement to get a shot at an interview. I am also aware that the 1,000 hours on plus 10 tons is an absolute in the application. What I would like to know is, if one, say puts 1,000 in the application but is sitting at 800, regularly flying and can expect to have reached the 1,000 in say four months, will that be frowned upon, or worse, disqualify the applicant?

I am aware from previous companies I worked for that they considered applications from pilots short a couple hundred hours and if successful at the interview just asked them to fly the remaining hours and get back in touch with them as soon as they had them done.

What do you think?

NGFellow

29th Apr 2015, 13:36

Do not put hours or any qualification on ANY application that you don't currently possess. This is for any job, and yes it will disqualify you. You are certifying the submitted application at some point in the process and this would be considered fraud.

tuti

29th Apr 2015, 17:10

Hey guys has anybody had first interview in Dubai?
I have been invited for the interview trough CTC wondering they going to do same test as in UK?

Vortex Thing

30th Apr 2015, 12:15

NG Fellow

Harsh word fraud! Let's look at that here is a defenition I found I am sure there are others as the jurisdiction would determine the interpretation of what fraud actually is in any give time and place. For now however we have:-

The term 'fraud' is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage.

If Piloto2011 were to put that he had 1000hrs in order to progress the application. There has to be a differentiation between what the firm needs him/her to have when they sit in the seat of one of our planes (which is likely driven by an insurance and/or GCAA requirement) AND the requirement laid out by the recruiter who likely hasn't really put much thought into the fact that opening some form of leeway i.e 10% or so will actually help them by getting pilots in at 1001hrs as opposed to sitting there saying there are no applicants.

Just take a look at the unifying clause in the definition. The fact of saying one has 1000hrs knowing it to be materially untrue is not fraudulent. However inducing someone to rely on that fact i.e letting you start employment knowing it to be false is a different matter.

If the clear and honest intention of what you are doing here is that you fly for an airline where you fly 80hrs a month and are 160hrs short and you are simply saying that I will have your requirements when I start that is very different from saying that you have it right now knowing that you are unemployed and will not have any more hours when you arrive.

This is not to in any way condemn or suggest you do that merely saying that it is no more fraud then telling someone you consider their wife's cooking to be great than unreality it is nothing of the sort. The devil is in your motivation and the fact that there is no one you can approach who is not a computer who you can have a reasonable conversation with. This is why many airlines Emirates amongst them say apply and keep on doing so and when you get to the correct (or an acceptable number) they will call you.

Sadly flydubai do not have the ability to try and see the future and even though everyone here will tell you we are running short of pilots you will not find anyone sensible enough in recruitment to actually help you in your situation.

To be honest I don't know where you are now but there are airlines that will take you with 500hrs on type so why don't you go to Pegasus, THY etc for a year and then come here if you cannot easily get the hours you are after?

NinER fIveR

30th Apr 2015, 13:47

It's worth noting that when you apply to FZ they do not really check/verify your credentials until AFTER you pass the 1st day screening (the non-sim part). I know for a FACT that not having all the requirements at interview is not an automatic disqualifier, as long as you can explain to FZ/CTC that you are in the process of obtaining them and expect to have them within a reasonable timeframe that is acceptable to them. However, if you are successful do not expect a contract offer or a start date until you check all the boxes and are ready for FZ to verify them. Good luck :ok:

Piloto2011

30th Apr 2015, 16:47

By the time I expect to have built the 1,000 hours on heavier stuff, and therefore qualify for an interview, it will have taken me over ten years, from the time I went up in a glider on my first training flight, that is. Ten years of sacrifice and hard work during which I also learned about FZ. Following this thread and researching the Internet, FZ has become the company I want to work for after my current job. So, when I finally get to meeting their requirements, I would like to give it my very best shot and not jeopardize it over a couple hundred hours or a few months. Showing fraudulent behavior would be the very last thing I would like to do - as it's not me - and which is why I came on here first to hear from people in the know. If there is a way to do so, I think it's perfectly legitimate to want to speed up the process, no?

Vortex, Thank you. I guess you are referring to me with suggesting to join another 737 carrier first. The thing is, I am not rated on the 737 yet so unfortunately I have to stick with what I have right now. That said, don't get me wrong, I actually really like the plane and ops I am on right now. But: it's not a 737 which is what I would like to fly eventually. :)

Niner fiver, Sorry but a "reasonable timeframe" would be six months?

NinER fIveR

30th Apr 2015, 23:22

I couldn't give you a definitive answer on that one buddy. 6 months seems to be on the high side, but that's just a "feeling". If I were in your position, I would wait until I was in the region of 2 months away from my target and then apply. Once you apply online and get through screening, you could always give yourself an extra few weeks by choosing a delayed assessment date. Whatever you do, don't go to the assessment if you don't feel ready for it because they can tell when you are not, and they will only give you a second chance after 6 months.

NGFellow

1st May 2015, 05:09

I stand by my earlier recommendation about not entering qualifications on your application you don't currently possess. Whether it meets the true definition of fraud or not is subject to interpretation. It's one thing to have the hours on a CV with a statement that you expect to have the hours by XXX. However, when you put it on an online application and state that you certify these hours to be true, it may cause problems as the apps are dated and if someone chooses to cross check, the truth will be very evident. Now, how they deal with it is up to the company if it is an issue. If you are fudging stuff now, what else will you fudge in the future?

In the end, it's up to the individual. Some airlines will actually clearly state that you may apply when you are within certain hours of their required minimums. Others will instruct you otherwise.

On a similar note concerning fraud, a few B737NG F/O's from a Brand X fudged their time to indicate the were Capts on the NG. During their sim evaluation it became evident that they could barely find stuff and fly from the left seat with a command presence. Now that's clear intent to commit fraud.

Piloto2011

2nd May 2015, 09:02

Thank you guys. Your replies are much appreciated. :ok:

skysod

7th May 2015, 04:29

The derisory pay increase is an indication of how FD feels about their pilots.........don't think it will do much to encourage any new recruits!!:(

lol777

7th May 2015, 07:10

Has anybody got any info on the south african assessment. When FD are coming and so on. I know of a lot of guys and girls that applied and we all got the same email and now its quite.

what-to-do

7th May 2015, 09:15

Skysod,

At least we get to complete the FZ HR survey in May...... Impeccable timing :O.

Iver

7th May 2015, 15:02

Just curious. Do you ever see EK pilots leaving for FD? Sounds like EK is having a melt down and would not surprise me if some departed the company but wanted to stay in the area...

what-to-do

7th May 2015, 15:50

To my knowledge, no emirates pilot has been stupid enough to exchange one set of clowns for another more incompetent bunch of clowns in 6 years.

Emirates is indeed in a meltdown, but they still have a better package than FZ. Profit share, better end of service benefit, staff travel & a provident fund..... just a few perks off the top of my head that we don't have or don't have to the same level.

An Emirates FO has a better basic salary than a captain at FZ. For a direct comparison, an FO at Emirates has a basic of around 27,000 AED. In contrast, an FO at FZ has a basic of 19,000 AED. End of service benefit for an FO at FZ after 10 years is 80,000 AED less. Factor into that the provident fund aspect at Emirates and this figure would be much more.

Staff travel for Emirates pilots blows FZ staff travel out of the water. FZ pilots can use Emirates staff travel, but an Emirates cleaner will have greater priority and you'll have to wait until just before boarding to see if you're lucky enough to get a seat....... very stressful, especially with children and going on vacation.

Trust me, compared to FZ, Emirates is a well oiled machine. FZ is years behind Emirates in many ways. FZ management have insisted on re-inventing the wheel and as such, things here at FZ are extremely frustrating.

In my honest opinion, a meltdown might not be too far off on the other side of the airport too. Pilot retention at FZ is appalling. The fact that so many European carriers have gone under, FZ has been underpinned by a steady influx of mainly non-rated guys and girls. This source of pilots has now dried up and FZ is finding pilot recruitment difficult...... especially for those of a decent calibre.

Would you leave Emirates for FZ...... I wouldn't.

too_much

8th May 2015, 10:45

I think you will find that I terms of bottom line a Flydubai FO will take home around 42,000 per month

Emirates FO around 39,000

It's just the way the different benefits are split up.

On the whole I can't see why anyone from Emirates would not want to move across....

If you enjoy watching paint dry and have lots of fun apps on your iPad EK may well be the job for you.

Flydubai on the B738 with more than 1 sector to fly would be much more interesting in my view...

what-to-do

8th May 2015, 11:21

Too Much,

An Emirates FO has accommodation thrown in (unless he/she opts out), and with flight pay takes home a little over 30,000 AED. As I mentioned previously, their basic is much higher than an FZ FO.

An FO at FZ would take home 42,000 AED after 85 hours. Not everyone achieves 85 hours in a month. Subtract from that the housing allowance and the two salaries are comparable.

However, as i understand it, Emirates pilots don't pay cooling fees or DEWA, which can actually be quite high, especially in the summer. In addition, they do not have to deal with unscrupulous landlords, ever.

Whether you want to fly a 737 on multiple sectors or a 777/ A380 on a long single sector is for the individual to decide.

Unfortunately, the proof is in the pudding. As I am aware, not one Emirates pilot has made the walk from the other side of the the airport. I'm happy to be corrected on this but the facts appear to speak for themselves. In contrast, a number of FZ pilots have crossed over to Emirates.......

Saltaire

8th May 2015, 11:36

I think you've had TOO MUCH to drink. You're numbers are off and the reality of what WHAT TO DO has to say is true. :) There has been no EK pilots moving over to FD, but several in the other direction ( many more applied ) I'm sure most at FD enjoy their job very much but as i'm enjoying a lager in Munich after one sector, would you not say that is also INTERESTING ;)

skysod

8th May 2015, 12:26

And don't forget the profit share......or rather lack of it in FD and no pay rise worth mentioning!!:{

BritishGuy

8th May 2015, 15:27

Not to take a stab at anyone here, but the sums mentioned above seem very, very short sighted.

Do the sums on the End of Service Benefit after 10 years at FZ vs 10 years at EK and it separates the men from the boys. Without getting into the fact that the Provident Fund that EK get will probably out perform their EOSB. True to say that FZ does NOT even compare.

Someone also rightfully mentioned the bonus that EK folk get on a fairly regular basis. Beats the 'Bone-Us' we get over at FZ.

pole shift

8th May 2015, 21:28

Was listening today to EK pilots talking to ATC and you could 'see' their smile on their faces. But for us FZ pilots disappointment was all around. Where is the appreciation, the recognition and the respect from a company that we give them 101%? It really makes you feel :mad:
The only positive note: everyone feels the frustration, not only the guys flying deep nights with 8 days off per month ;)
Maybe we become a team again...

skysod

9th May 2015, 05:05

Will be interesting to see just how many will be willing to work on their day off or "go that extra mile" after the next sandstorm!!:ooh:

ABBOT

9th May 2015, 14:09

I think quite a few people are going the extra mile or so. In fact many extra miles, some as far as seven thousand or so.

ABBOT

9th May 2015, 15:40

I think quite a few people are going the extra mile or so. In fact many extra miles, some as far as seven thousand or so.

Vortex Thing

9th May 2015, 19:12

It's not often I agree with skysod but I think he has hit the nail on the head.

It would almost have been better to give us no pay rise than 10AED per hr.

In essence the princely sum of just under 1000AED per month increase for the hard work put into keeping the firm ticking over for the last year.

It is almost worth staying just to see if it is a loyalty test? The thinking must be. Perhaps if we give them a derisory increase they will think we are omnipotent and yield to our leadership prowess. Then once we have broken them all we can allow them to rise phoenix like from the ashes with a bonus inversely proportional to the chief pilots ability to answer a question openly and truthfully at the monthly lunch.

Or perhaps we just don't matter as much as we would likely think we do? Sadly the latter appears to be the real case here!

henriksch

10th May 2015, 15:46

Thanks for your replies. I am going as DEC, starting on june 14th.

Know the city and area quite well, but the company not so much, and learning alot from reading here.

Looks like I will need to become a roster bidding god

what-to-do

10th May 2015, 16:49

Becoming a "Roster God" won't help you my friend. You'll join at the very bottom of the seniority and will struggle to get much of what you ask for, if at all anything.

The fact is, we're short of captains and even long time servants here at FZ are struggling to get a decent or stable roster.

Say goodbye to the sun and hello to the moon :ok:

onthekeys

10th May 2015, 19:15

Hi everyone

I'm hoping to be moving to FZ in the coming weeks as an second officer peogramme they CAE

I wonder if anyone could give me an insight into a roster, I understand if no one would like to help. I understand it's much night work but wonder if anyone could shed some light on it.

Thanks

kboretti

10th May 2015, 23:22

dubaigong

11th May 2015, 06:40

Onthekeys,

For the first 3 to 4 months ( your training ) you will mostly fly only day flights with sometimes flights landing back to Dubai around 23h00 local.
Your destinations will mostly be in Saudi Arabia ( JED , MED , RUH , TIF , AHB , ELQ , DMM ) with some DOH , MCT , BAH , KWI , BEY...
But once you will be released on line this will be a complete different story , you can expect a lot of night flights and to the less desired destination ( war zone for example ) Afghanistan and Iraq.

what-to-do

11th May 2015, 08:57

Ha ha, that's funny :). That's about as much light you could possibly shed on a low seniority roster.....

Seriously, the previous post is quite accurate. After training, however, expect to be hammered with numerous night flights, minimum rest, alternating day/night duties and the dreaded war zone destinations.

Best of luck with the rating :)

migair54

13th May 2015, 15:03

Hello all.

I have been invited to assist the assessment on Southampton on the 11th of May, anyone going for that dates PM, so we can share some info.

I have been reading this thread for a long time, I will update after that date and I hope I can use some of the info you guys share here.

Let´s see what happened after 11th.

sanjet

14th May 2015, 14:16

migair54 best of luck! Just curious when did you apply? I applied a few weeks ago, wondering if i really have a chance or not for a call/email.

Regards,

migair54

14th May 2015, 15:49

I applied long ago, but recently I also did for the SouthAfrica one, so I don´t know which one is the one they consider, but I have been invited to Southampton.

I have 5.600 hours on ATR the last 800 PIC.

ACP

15th May 2015, 01:30

I got a reply from CTC and also from another agency. I can't believe CTC ask 230£ for an interview. I will certainly never pay for an interview. Shame on you CTC we are pilots not prostitutes! The other agency does not ask for any fees and they even pay for the accomodation during the interview...

JACK14

16th May 2015, 11:58

CTC is asking money for interview ??? Since when ? I never heard they ask money for FZ assesment. More info will be appreciated

Cheers

cccc

16th May 2015, 14:08

I think ctc has been asking this fee since a while now, about a year now.
Any idea how many people are the holdingpool? I'm swimming since March... without any news of course.
Cheers

jetstreem

17th May 2015, 10:58

So I'm hearing on the rumour tree that Qatar might be dropping their no poaching agreement with FZ. Also that Emirates are or are considering not enforcing their 3 year no hiring agreement. And that someone even got out without paying off their bond. Any truth in these? If so then I imagine Etihad would follow...

Vortex Thing

18th May 2015, 10:34

ACP et al

It is a simple case of supply and demand. We are prostitutes! If it looks like a whore, talks like a whore and acts like a whore then what is it?

We pay them for an opportunity to make them money in the hope that they will deliver us our dreams. This is mostly true unless they decide on the way that they can't be bothered, you get sick or are invovled in a traffic accident with the wrong person.

No one cares about the quality of the pilots that we hire, no one cares about their trainability, or background as long as you will be loose and fast with the rules when it suits the company (munitions of war anybody) but adhere to regulations whether they exist or are made up on the spot to suit.

The company sets limits as targets because pilots are disposable and replaceable (for now) so unfortunately until that changes you need to pay for an opportunity to join the circus.

If you wonder why pilots feel under enough pressure to commit suicide you should come and work here for a few years.

There is and always and will be great rewards to come out of working here financially. But rather like a ponzi scheme it matters when you get in and when you get out.

For anyone out there doubting that we are indeed prostitutes then look up the definition. We do do it for money and we do take it both ways from the firm even when we know its illegal (lithium batteries anyone) but we continue to do it as it pays well and the longer we do it the easier it is to justifiy it and the more we enjoy the trappings the more difficult it is to leave.

Just look at FZ business model. Think things like fuel hedging, aircraft leasing versus sales (do we own our own aircraft or do we just sell them on and lease them back as soon as we take delivery?) Those of you out here the next time you walk around when you enter from L1 look at the plate in the door frame. Who actually owns the plane you are about to fly? Profit share, sadly we spent the real profit on capital expenditure so we could manipulate the reported profit to be low enough to not have to do profit share but high enough to make the result seem good to the world.

Then look at this statement :

complex business model and unethical practices required that the company use accounting limitations to misrepresent earnings and modify the balance sheet to indicate favorable performance.

Then google the text in italics. Then work out the future of this scheme, compared to how THAT now infamous company fared! I am not saying don't join (even now in the summer of our discontent, even now having just been informed of the derisory pay rise!) I am saying join with your eyes open if you need to advance your career, get on the jet, gain some hours yes do it but do it knowing that this firm is now clearly joined in the race to the bottom that Ryanair started and in reality I would not think that it will survive the next round of world aviation austerity.

So join the ponzi scheme but do so with a plan B preferably including an offshore bank account to get you out of dodge when required. Keep schtum about everything transgressions wise whilst you are out here and save evidence of where the bodies are buried, you will likely need it!

Good luck in your application, the one saving grace is that 90% of the guys you fly with here are nice, professional pilots and are swimming in the same ****e that you are so will help you through the day to day. Please though please have a plan B.

Gmax

18th May 2015, 15:13

what-to-do

18th May 2015, 16:49

Gmax,

As a pilot from the US, your salary is not tax free. Unfortunately, you still pay tax to Uncle Sam. Not too sure what the threshold is, but you pay.

On a side note; all that glitters is not gold. Don't be fooled by the salary advertised here. Life here is very expensive as is rent. On top of that you will work mainly night flights, which believe me, take their toll.

Eventually you'll upgrade, true. However, the rest bite you gained after 2-3 years as an FO will be lost as you become a low seniority Captain...... yep, you guessed it, back to mainly night flights.

My humble advice is don't come unless you're really in the sh*t. Money can buy you short term happiness, but won't buy back your health.

Best of luck :)

Gmax

18th May 2015, 17:42

What to do,
Thank you very much for the advice. Regarding the night flights, how does it work? You do a ~8h turn including an hour stop at destination? It means you are almost everyday "at home" in Dubai? You do about 10 turns in the month (~90h) and then you're done?

Vortac1

18th May 2015, 17:46

Thanks for the infos. I too have an interview coming up and I'm now wondering if I should go ahead.
I am FO on the A330 in North America and I just don't like the job. I am commuting for the job as I can't afford to buy a house in the city where my base is. I am never at home and I only make 3000$ net per month at the moment. It will slowly increase over the years but it would take 13 years to make the equivalent of the year 1 FO salary at FD (as it's tax free). When I will get the opportunity to move on the left seat here (in about 5 years) the salary will start a the year 1 Captain payscale which is still less than year 1 FO at FD.
I prefered the lifestyle I had when I was flying the B737NG; that's why I was looking at Flydubai.

Gmax, whether the salary would be enough for you or not depends on your current situation: current debt (if any), single, married, kids/no kids, etc. If you're single or married with no children its is definitely possible to save a pretty chunk of money each month. You dont have to live in the gettho to save some house allowance money for example. It is definitely possible to send some money home.

As stated above, US citizens do pay taxes, but for current FOs its not that much compared to what we would have to pay if we made that amount back in US. In a nutshell, we are tax exempt up to $99,200 per year (for 2014), you also get to deduct part of your housing expenses in some circumstances, so that helps you stay below that $99,200 threshold too. If your yearly income exceeds that number, then you pay taxes only on the amount that exceeds $99,200, but at a pretty big tax bracket (the one you would land at considering your total yearly income). Of course, you have to make sure you meet the requirements in order to qualify for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion, according to the IRS.

I strongly suggest to give this a good read: IRS Publication 54, it explains all the details on income taxes for expats.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p54.pdf

Disclaimer: Im not a tax professional, you should consult with your local tax guy, yada, yada, yada...

Flydubai is a good place to hang out if you got nothing better back home, IMHO it can be a good temporary hide out for some. Definitely not a place to stay long term I think.

NGFellow

18th May 2015, 17:58

My employer does not pay for schooling costs and although I make a good living, with three kids and the continual rise in educational costs, we are thinking of leaving after 4 years here. My schooling and housing costs are $8000/month.

what-to-do

19th May 2015, 03:26

Gmax,

If only life were so simple.

The long night flights will probably be requested by the guys more senior to you, for the very reason you mentioned.

In reality, you should expect to do short day flights, alternating on to deep night flights and sometimes back again, minimum rest and rest periods of between 18-30 hours. The net result of all this is fatigue, constant fatigue. Don't expect more than 8-9 days off a month and rarely will you get more 2 days off in a row.

Yes, you'll be at home at some point in the 24hr period, but if you have a family you'll be like ships in the night.

In contrast, senior pilots here at FZ can often get as little as 8 duties per month and occasionally in excess of 20 days off. Unfortunately, hell would have to freeze over before you get to that stage...:)

Vortex Thing

19th May 2015, 09:05

Though I believe that what-to-do paints a fair picture. 8 flights a month was a rarity for me. It was not often I flew that much! Most months as an FO were in the 6-7 flights per month region prior to upgrade.

I am not supporting the disparity merely pointing out that it more than exists. The passing like ships in the night thing is very fair indeed. Prior to the inception of PBS it was like that for most of us. Mrs VT actually started complaining about the fact that the food budget had increased as I never seemed to go to work!

The point however is that whilst my end of the seniority may appear desirable as an FO it was still back to the drawing board of life the moment you upgrade. Now reasonable day flights i.e 3-4hrs are the best that you can hope for with the odd night thrown in an about 10-12 days in the office per month. So it is still way better than your average long haul guy at EK but everything else pales into insignificance compensation wise.

As for GMax if you leave the US to come here when you have a job on the A330 you will regret it for the rest of your life. I am not known for sitting on the fence but you would literally have to be barking mad to give up that life to come here as a B737 FO. The money may seem attractive AND to be fair it is but you spend all of it to have a reasonable life as an FO you would be lucky to even get through the month on it unless you have no children and are debt free.

So 18 months to 3 yrs of eeking out and existence followed by making a little bit of cash. I mean little bit perhaps you can save $3000 a month so $35000 or so a year. Any decent property purchase will net you that amount and you won't have to live with the constant uncertainty, gross general incompetence in retail and banking and poor service combined with an unbelievably weak work ethic that is the everyday life here.

Life here is very good when you don't have to get involved with the admin side of life and I still fully intend to stay here for years but the difficulties are numerous and you must accept very low standards on most things.

Do you really want to leave a country where things work to come to one where they don't. What real gain do you have by coming here. You are employed in your home country flying a long-medium haul plane that is something that most of us here can never have in this airline, hence why we move on.

Why would you choose to go down the pecking order rather than up it. In 5 yrs time you will be an A330 captain. How bad can your company really be! I am willing to bet your bottom dollar that it is not worse than working here!

If you just want to fulfil your adventurous streak or phase in life then take up wing suit flying or something or get a motorbike but coming here is for those on turboprops who need to get jets, those who need command or those who are unemployed. This is a place to start or end your career definitely not a place to have a career.

It suits me but I have fairly unusual circumstances and those of us from Europe are only 4-7hrs flight from home with good connections and a large expat community.

What both Vortex and What to do are alluding to is basically this is place for those who have nowhere else to go. It is not somewhere that you leave a reasonable job to come to. You may not like your current employer very much but you have rights, protections, freedom of speech and action and you are employed in a permanent job. Perhaps you have not been through what many of us have been through but when you have been unemployed for any period of time you will value what those things really are. Don't give that up for this! Unless you need to get out of dodge or avoid a nasty divorce, et al. then this should not be a choice it should be a bolthole.

LostinT2DXB

19th May 2015, 14:27

There are only a few reasons for an American to come here right now with the hiring boom that's taking place in the U.S.:

1. Your current employer is downsizing and you lack enough PIC to move forward to a major. That is the main reason for the influx lately of Yanks. Regionals in the U.S. are stagnant at best or even shrinking with lots of downgrades.

2. You have a blemish on your record or career that keeps national or major airlines from hiring you and you are stuck in an RJ for the next 30+ years.

3. You have a paranoid feeling that the U.S. is falling apart because the Democrats are fu&k!ng everything up and next week the zombies will come across the border and you can't shoot them because the government took all your guns away and stole all your money:ugh:.

Just understand cost of living is high, good schools not cheap, and for the first year it will be a big transition moving to a Muslim country. Otherwise, the winters are fabulous:ok:

High Energy

19th May 2015, 16:35

With an A330 rating I know I'd look at EK and the 'unmentionable one' down the road first. Even Qatar would cross my mind.

flydream1982

19th May 2015, 19:12

Gmax said he's flying in North America, why does it have to be the US?
He's probably flying in Canada for that salary...
Emirates? With 92h a month??? Living in Meydan??? Upgrade in XX years? Thanks but no thanks!
Regarding Qatar, I would not compare life in Doha with Dubai.

Anyway he seems to prefer being home everyday, so that rules out the big 3.

flydream1982

19th May 2015, 20:19

Apart from this month where I'll be at 60h (a few flights cancelled), I averaged 80h the last few months.
Married and no kids, I can save 3500usd a month, at least.

Gmax

19th May 2015, 22:45

Many thanks for your inputs. I moved on the 330 a year ago and my lifestyle is horrible. I am working at a charter airline and we don't have the same working conditions as they have at a Major. I have a hard time to deal with the jet lag; I'm always tired and not in a good mood at home. I am not interested in Emirates; ideally I would prefer to pursue my career on short haul and since I have some experience on the 737NG I am looking at the options for a FO position on this aircraft.
I am from Europe too but I've been working away for 15 years. I'd love to go back but I still have to do the EASA conversion. However all the friends over there are saying there is no job except for Captains and Cadets so I shouldn't waste my time and money.

latetonite

20th May 2015, 01:03

I wonder if GMAX posting is real.

Otto Throttle

20th May 2015, 05:56

A330 at EK is short haul :}

Rusty_Dusty

20th May 2015, 07:32

Hello there,

How long does it take after the screening to get the results? I did my screening about 2 weeks ago and still nothing:sad::sad::sad:

Thanks,

R_D

Rusty_Dusty

20th May 2015, 10:50

Thanks a lot transportjock:ok:

The wait is killing me as generally results for all the screenings I have attended in the past took a week at most, so, I was wondering if they maybe forgot about me:*:*:*:*:*

what-to-do

20th May 2015, 16:26

Latetonite,

Was wondering that myself....

Warrior2

21st May 2015, 19:59

Any idea how big the holding pool is?

Twiglet1

22nd May 2015, 20:18

Would not the pool be wide or deep rather than big ???

too_much

24th May 2015, 17:12

Don't get too excited with no new aircraft arriving for some time at FZ don't expect a start date for at least early part of 2016.

the latest new hires all started today...

Word from the top is that will be that for 2015.

airborneksa

25th May 2015, 00:52

Just got over the process in Istanbul, complete BS. Everyone getting rejected by self proclaimed pilot Arthur. He was ensuring 90% of everyone there getting rejected before sims, we all discussed and realized he must be on payroll or a runner for someone else up in the company. How can this company let someone who is not qualified do this :ugh: matter of time for an accident or incident to happen. :rolleyes: hold him responsible.

Vortac1

25th May 2015, 04:45

Let me guess, you were on that 90% group?

Rusty_Dusty

25th May 2015, 06:49

@too_much

I guess your sources are wrong. I got my results last week and I have been given a date end of next month. I guess its a different scenario for the type-rated pilots.

migair54

25th May 2015, 08:35

so if they don´t need people until next year why are they calling people for more interviews in June?? specially for non-type rated people like I am.

I didn´t know they are also doing selection in IST.

airborneksa

25th May 2015, 08:38

I am not among 90% but will certainly turn down the offer since i don't plan to take BS from some :mad: plus reading here what everyone thinks of this company.

Warrior2

31st May 2015, 22:07

I was placed in the holding pool not so long ago. Any ideas if anyone has a start date?

kboretti

1st Jun 2015, 02:53

I was placed in the holding pool not so long ago. Any ideas if anyone has a start date?

I've been in the pool since first week of March. I am still awaiting a start date.

Warrior2

1st Jun 2015, 16:59

Cool,

March seems to be the last round of assessments. Is there anyone pre-march?

Im non rated.

cccc

1st Jun 2015, 19:28

Hi,

I am in the pool since 24/3. Non rated
I know a guy who went to DXB for his final interview on 18/5, and he is in the pool as well.

Apparently there are no start dates for the next 3 months for non rated people. After that, no information. So 3 months for sure no start dates... maybe more.

I must say I'm disappointed at the fact that there is NO communication between recruitment and the guys/girls who passed the assessment.

I was very happy and ecstatic when I received my pass mail and it stated thay I could receive a start date as early as May. But since that pass mail, no communication whatsoever. I have sent a few mails to them, but nothing.

Life goes on, even without flydubai.

flydream1982

1st Jun 2015, 21:37

Guys, you have to understand that even if you had a start date, nothing would have changed, there is no communication.
My joining coordinator pretty much never replied to my emails.
I only got my work visa (the one you need to have when you arrive at the airport) the day before coming, and because I sent many emails.
It's just the way it is.
You have to realize that things are different here, it's another way of doing business, get used to it because it's just the beginning. Patience is the key ;)

123essame

2nd Jun 2015, 02:34

Hi every one, Just got my Frozen ATPL from CAE Oxford aviation , any idea if I can apply for flydubai or they only need Unfrozen ATPL? any advice ? your help is highly appreciated.

migair54

2nd Jun 2015, 17:29

123essame, for the Cadet maybe you can apply, for first officer you need much more than only CPL or Frozen ATPL.

today I talked to a friend I had in FZ and he told me, that until year end very limited people will join, but next year will need a lot of people, so it looks like they are preparing for this.

Anyone going 10-11 June??

too_much

3rd Jun 2015, 13:22

There is rumour no official statement however of possible new type of aircraft to be needed at Flydubai by 2020 in a plan to expand the airline operations beyond the current 5.5 hour radius of Dubai to serve secondary major cities in Asia and Europe.

Sure this is going in to Emirates territory, but I do believe there is a market for a Flydubai long haul service to secondary hubs.

Would personally like to see a Fleet of Flydubai 747-800 serve this need should it materialise...

FlyingTinCans

4th Jun 2015, 14:26

The 'second type' rumour has been around since FZ started 6 years ago. It's yet to be confirmed and will no doubt be around long enough that it will eventually come true.

More realistically, recruitment will be driven by FZ's current attrition rate which is probably the highest it's ever been.
FZ need guys, however training capacity can't keep up. We also have our highest amount of cadet pilots who take up a lot of resources, which is why FZ leans towards type rated guys as they take up less resources.

Once all the cadet pilots have left the training department you will see guys being pulled from the pool in larger numbers.

7Q Off

4th Jun 2015, 14:58

The max has 500 nm extra range vs the 800. It gives FD more legs to explore new places.

simba82

4th Jun 2015, 17:55

When does FZ start getting the new Max?

DesertStorm1

9th Jun 2015, 13:44

you're better off....

High Energy

10th Jun 2015, 03:58

We'll get 5 MAX 8's in 2017. Flydubai is the 2nd or 3rd carrier to get the MAX so expect a 3rd quarter delivery.

Dish dash designer

10th Jun 2015, 17:59

You guys must have a death wish to want to join this company. They have lied about so many incidents. The Baghdad incident as you have read on here, the other 2 shootings, the dangerous SOPs and the level of BS from the office will enfuriate any qualified pilot. This will become a cadet haven for those that are oblivious to the norms. They fire guys for standing up for their space/right in the car park or for choosing to stay within the law when told to ignore it. They ignore wake turbulence incidents that occur daily. You guys should establish the truth (ask about BGW in detail and then what the company tried to claim) before you entertain this idea. I'm so glad I escaped with my life....this company is heading in a dangerous direction.

ATR42DRIVER

11th Jun 2015, 13:12

I was just invited to the flydubai final interview in DXB after a successful UK selection process. Man, I'm reading stuff on here that range from "dangerous" company to "awesome" company and not too much in between. Now I know pilots, being pilots, love to complain, it's a fact. I'm now trying to weed through all of these comments to get a true idea of how this company is to work for. I have a friend that just started there fairly recently and he says it's great. If someone working there has some positive feedback could they please send me a PM? I'm super stoked to make a big job/lifestyle change, Dubai sounds like an amazing city, but I don't want to regret my decision after a year.

what-to-do

11th Jun 2015, 19:40

Show me one post that says FZ is awesome or amazing. 28 pilots resigned since January already.... I expect it's not because they thought it was amazing.

G SXTY

11th Jun 2015, 20:32

ATR Driver - if your friend has only recently joined, that's probably why he thinks it's great. From experience, the awesomeness wears off pretty quickly. The only people I know who are happy are new joiners (see above) and cadets, who are living the dream in their first job with nothing else to compare FZ to.

Dubai certainly is amazing; amazingly hot, amazingly expensive, amazingly bureaucratic, amazingly bad driving, etc etc. I'm sure it's an amazing place to visit as a tourist, but to live in, I'd suggest it's only amazingly wonderful if you're coming from a dangerous and/or third world country. Compared to Europe or North America, it ain't all that.

Within the last year, we have had our parking at HQ taken away, been banned from using personal electronic devices or reading newspapers or books in the flight deck (try reading the QRH for 10 hours), and been awarded a derisory pay rise that's worth 1% in a busy month - far less if you have leave. Not to mention all the 'incidents' which have been well described above. And that's before you consider the constant night flying, single days off and swapping from nights to days. It will grind you down.

I personally know four FOs who have recently paid to buy themselves out of the bond and go home. Considering this company offers one of the quickest 737 commands in the industry, that alone should ring warning bells.

too_much

11th Jun 2015, 23:00

What does a cadet pilot take home out of interest?

olster

12th Jun 2015, 07:11

Nothing has changed since day 1.

jetstreem

13th Jun 2015, 17:41

To add to what's been posted above about fast commands, there's a bad trait that's been in the company for a while now and is getting worse.

Experienced FOs are joining with an expectation (straight from the recruitment team) that they'll get a chance at a command after a year or maybe 2 with the company, depending on experience. What they don't tell you is that that will only happen if you basically get perfect scores from the trainers for two consecutive LPC/OPCs, which is completely subjective. There's very little standardisation (not really the fault of the trainers. Much more likely the fault of those running the training department) and a lot of guys and girls are now leaving or looking at leaving because they're getting fed up with the system. This is just one of the problems at the moment.

Some of the stories we're hearing about the new destinations are a little 'interesting' too!

If you join, it's a bit of a lottery whether that upgrade that you perhaps expect will ever materialize before you get fed up with the company/Dubai/landlord/cost of living and give up. I have a number of friends in that position. Lots have left or are planning on leaving.

Please be guided accordingly, as they say.

EurCan Pilot

14th Jun 2015, 06:08

I know Emirates has a BMI < 30 limit to join.

What is Fly Dubai? Do you guys have that same limit?

I'm heavy (lots of muscle around 200lbs) and my BMI by definition is 38. I have no problem passing a CAT 1, heart test, cardio test, and can work out at intensively at 4000 foot elevation (the city where I live) no problem.

Will I have problems with medical if I apply to Fly Dubai?

Thanks for the info!

too_much

14th Jun 2015, 12:23

FZ is same policy as Emirates I believe..

dubaigong

14th Jun 2015, 12:58

The medical restrictions or limits are GCAA and not company related so should be the same for EK and FZ.
We can do our medical anywhere we want to as long as it is a GCAA approved facility and then our medical is sent to the company.

EurCan Pilot

14th Jun 2015, 16:43

ok well in that case even EK shouldn't have BMI 30 limit because GCAA will give cat 1 up to BMI 35, and even above BMI35 but you may be subject to cardio test.

Yet EK has hard limit of BMI 30 or waist circumference of 102cm.

So does anyone know what FZ is? Since EK really does seem to have company limit.

Dish dash designer

14th Jun 2015, 18:06

If you are happy to sign a bond for 5 years and sign to say you WILL go to any war zone as standard (so no extra pay) the FZ could be the place for you!

Command is certainly not as advertised! Many have gone past 3,4, and almost 5 years without an upgrade. It is not a given! The places you will fly to include some very dangerous places!

You will get no medals for bravery and if you screw up it's your head on the chopping block. I would suggest anyone really interested to ask LOTS of questions! Many people are waiting for their bond to expire before they exit the door!

too_much

14th Jun 2015, 18:51

Flydubai operates in to War Zones but how many aircraft have they lost to date due to that aspect of their business? Answer 0

MH17 was shot down
German Wings was deliberately crashed
A few ATRs in Asia went down recently

Are you really that much safer in other airlines?

I get the point that it's not pleasant but the stats suggest that you will be ok.

I think personally more would leave because of the lifestyle in Dubai not to mention costs.

Realistically you need about 60,000 AED to live comfortably in Dubai today....

EurCan Pilot

14th Jun 2015, 19:26

Anyone got any input as to my last post?

""ok well in that case even EK shouldn't have BMI 30 limit because GCAA will give cat 1 up to BMI 35, and even above BMI35 but you may be subject to cardio test.

Yet EK has hard limit of BMI 30 or waist circumference of 102cm.

So does anyone know what FZ is? Since EK really does seem to have company limit.""

Thanks!

too_much

14th Jun 2015, 19:53

I looked into this for you Eurcan...

No specific requirements on BMI, only requirement is Class 1 medical.

EK have their own in house clinc, where as FZ don't...

So to answer your question, yes you can join FZ with a high BMI provided you can pass the GCAA medical... Hope that helps.

You can find more information on GCAA website under CAR OPS

This extract is from the GCAA CAAP 19 Aeromedical
3.5.11.4.
Aeromedical Disposition
i. For the GCAA medical certification purpose the definition of obesity include:

A body mass index above 30 ,or
 A waist circumference over 102 cm, female 88cm,or
 A waist to hip ration of 0.9 male and 0.85 female, or
 Body fat content above 25% male and 33% female.
ii. Obese applicant with incapacitation risk of >1%, must be grounded and enter a weight management program which should include dietary advice, an increased exercise regime and regular 3 monthly AME follow and should require an additional battery of tests to exclude the nutritional and metabolic disorders before issuing the medical certificate. The minimum tests required would be Lipid profile (total cholesterol, LDL, triglyceride level and HDL), Fasting Blood Sugar and calculation the overall risk of cardiovascular disease. A target weight reduction of at least 10 % their original weight over one year and all risk factors must be monitored and controlled.
iii. Obese applicants who are otherwise well and can exercise the privileges of a license safely will be certificated without restriction.
iv. Obese Individual with OSA should be managed as per the protocol of OSA.
v. If the a class I candidate with BMI of 35 or more fails to lose weight over 6 months period, or even gain more weight, the GCAA may recommend a simulator assessments with particular attention to his competency in managing emergency situations and evacuation. Multi-pilot (Class I ‘OML’) or
safety pilot (Class II ‘OSL’) limitation may be required.
vi. If the high BMI does not reflect obesity (e.g. muscular built), then other measurement to be used
as guidelines with the BMI for more accurate assessment, such as body fat percentage.
vii. Failure to comply with any or all of these points may lead to permanent unfitness.

what-to-do

14th Jun 2015, 20:08

"Flydubai operates in to War Zones but how many aircraft have they lost to date due to that aspect of their business? Answer 0"

This comment has to win the award for most ridiculously naive comment, ever.

You have been here just how long? I assume that you know nothing about rocket attacks in Kabul, Kandahar, Bagram etc. FZ aircraft on the ground or on finals during such events. Russian cargo plane in Kabul hit by shrapnel from a rocket attack.

Tell me about the recent shooting in BGW.... I suppose that you too believe that it was a wedding party? Funny, not even the security department can keep a straight face with that one. 7 bullet holes in an aircraft and an injured young girl that was hushed up.

:ugh:

Vortex Thing

14th Jun 2015, 20:22

The BMI limit is none of the above.

The GCAA have no issue with a Class 1 medical being issued to any pilot with a BMI of 39.9 or lower.

However if your BMI is 30-39.9 then you will have to do fasting blood tests for each medical. They are specifically looking for what the refer to as comorbidities. Having one comorbidity is ok, two makes you borderline and three would likely get you extra tests such as a treadmill VO2 Max or similar. It is entirely subjective, like most things in Dubai! If you find the right doctor then you have no issue getting a medical with a BMI of 38 if you find the wrong doctor then I know pilots with BMIs of 31 being told they risk suspension.

Comorbidities are basically risks of you dying so if you have high blood pressure, heriditary risk, waist circ greater than 102 cms, high LDL, high triglycerides, etc abnormal ECG, etc, each one of those will count against you.

If you are the ex rugby type of body i.e lots of muscle but low body fat then BMI alone is no issue.

I personally have a BMI or 34 and hvae been up to 38 and have had never had any issue or conditions placed on me medically.

EK have a hard rule as a company of 30 or below to join. It has been waived in time of need but not often. FZ made me and a few others I know personally get below 30 to join stating it was a company requirement but it is not and never has been a GCAA requirement. Anyone who tells you different is misinformed.

The GCAA CAAP 19 issued Oct 2010 revised Sep 2012 is a 194 page document available for download from the Authority website. In that document page 37 chapter 5.11 it is black and white specific as to what the standards are.

The flaw in the cunning plan is that it is written in English. That basically means that some people choose to interpret it however they want. Most of our recruiting staff are unaware of what the actual regulations are and have arbitarily turned away pilots simply based on BMI when they likely would have been fine. That said we have two cadets, at least, to my knowledge who I have spoken to and they had BMIs over 30 one over 35 on joining and never had a problem. So it completely depends on what colour underwear the recruiter is wearing, which doctor you see during the interview phase or use to do your medical.

One particular clinic here has a reputation for making money out of extra tests. Placing pilots careers at risk and placing stress on their families. I have never used them as I avoided them due to reputation but I have friends as fit as a butchers dog who had weeks of medical tests, had to carry around personal ECGs for 24/48 hr tests all at their expense to be told they were fine 4000AED later by a "specialist", often holding the same passport as the referring clinician.

The chief pilot doesn't have a BMI under 30, that said the chief pilot doesnt have a medical so it doesnt matter anymore to him.

So worry not about your weight unless you are unfit as well as heavy for height, the whole England rugby team are pretty much obese according to the 1950s test group used to make the original BMI scale. Find a doctor who gets that Thai men, Fijian men, Chinese men, Sri Lankans etc come in very different frames and you will have no issue.

If you are out here and looking then it isn't hard to find the correct doctor just ask a larger framed pilot where they go and you'll be fine! I personally have not seen a refusal of a Medical in my 4yrs of anyone I know or have heard of.

Across the runway on the other hand they love grounding their pilots!

To be fair your weight isn't the real issue. Unless you are unemployed your mental health is the thing that you should question if you choose to come here. Like has been said by the same contributors for years in this very thread. It can be a good life, however statistically you have to be lucky to benefit in the way that you expect as your actual ability has nothing to do with your progress in this airline.

There are guys here who you would follow into the cockpit purely out of curiosity who make Captain on minimum hours after 18 months and then proceed to scare the bejesus out of FOs until they get eventually get caught out or you forget as you have upgraded yourself. There are some fantastic skippers who are ignored and rideen over by mgt as they hate being proven wrong especially when they are. There however are guys who are good enough to fly fastjets in the RAF, good enough for British Ariways and in many cases have already been Skippers in other respectable enough airlines who simply fall at some ridiculous hurdle or another whilst sub standard DECs who would never get through the upgrade here are hired.

Most of the internal upgrades are amongst the best Captains we have once you are out of the top 100 seniority (the original DECs were a very different ilk and are mostly excellent)

It is easy to tell who the excellent ones are, if the management ignore or sidleine them then the more they talk them down the better they are. The best of them mostly leave unless they really don't need to be here in which case they stay for the A scale salary and roster!

what-to-do

14th Jun 2015, 20:26

Too Much

Remember this post from January this year?

"FZ is a rip off company heading towards ridiculous T&C 10K for FO & 15K for skippers is a disgrace considering you will fly in to rocket attack zones & live in hell hole Dubai. They need to pay you for interview! And up those salaries by at least 30%"

Make your mind up :rolleyes:

Dish dash designer

15th Jun 2015, 11:22

]Flydubai operates in to War Zones but how many aircraft have they lost to date due to that aspect of their business? Answer 0

MH17 was shot down
German Wings was deliberately crashed
A few ATRs in Asia went down recently

Are you really that much safer in other airlines?

I get the point that it's not pleasant but the stats suggest that you will be ok.

I think personally more would leave because of the lifestyle in Dubai not to mention costs.

Realistically you need about 60,000 AED to live comfortably in Dubai today....[/QUOTE]

How many of the other companies had planes SHOT AT? SHOT AT ON THE GROUND? ARMED rebels boarding the aircraft? Hitting dogs on runways, countless other non-bird related impacts, missiles and bombs exploding at airports while they are on the ground? Mmmmmm. The good news is that the cadets will just accept all that as "the norm" 😆

what-to-do

15th Jun 2015, 12:42

FZ must finally be smiling at the fact that they have now started to recruit the right people..... All good things come to those that wait. :(

latetonite

15th Jun 2015, 18:19

It is amazing what some people nowadays accept as normal, in order to get the job.
It probably related to the inverse square root of their experience.

G SXTY

17th Jun 2015, 10:05

VT

Your last post should be essential reading for anyone thinking of joining FZ. :D

Skud Run

19th Jun 2015, 19:33

PPRuNe should stand for Pissy Pilots Rumour Network. The reason that a lot of the above comments are negative is because the ones that are happy and have a life are doing something better with their time than just moan and complain. I have flown with Captains that are junior to me and some that have been here since day one. Most guys I flew with say its good here and the ones that have had enough just find something else and leave. Even some of the guys leaving still have good words to say on the way out; But the bitter ones are the vocal ones like Mr. Negativity above. War zones? Yes but its no different than anywhere else. You don't like that part then don't join but don't let the term "war zone" scare you away. As for the sad miserable guys that left or got fired and still come back to PPRUNE to vent and complain, I'm sure your departure is a mutual feeling with FZ. Every company has the good and the bad. If you are a chronic complainer and cry over parking 5 min away from base and catching a shuttle to work then you will see a lot of bad. If you come with a positive attitude and focus on the good, knowing things could be better, then you will be fine.

what-to-do

19th Jun 2015, 20:58

Oh please....:ugh:

Hey everybody, war zones are no different to anywhere else...and, if you've left FZ you're sad and miserable. Pretty bold statement for someone who hasn't been here a year.

If you go all they way back through this thread, you'll find many sad and miserable guys posting on here. Surely they all can't be wrong? Maybe, just maybe, there is some truth in their posts. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the thing is, many posts are from people with 5 or 6 years more experience than you.

Glad you're living the dream, doesn't mean we have to keep our comments to ourselves just because you don't like what we have to say... it's a forum

Old King Coal

19th Jun 2015, 21:16

Skud Run, given your evident newness within FZ, one rather fears that some might call you a sanctimonious, wet-behind-the-ears, Johnny-come-lately, t_wat !

Warrior2

19th Jun 2015, 22:25

Is there any news of a type rating course starting soon? Has anyone been called from the pool?

Whitste

20th Jun 2015, 03:42

Warrior2

Been in the pool since the beginning of March after interviewing in Miami. Just got a start date of July 26 for the induction, and a class start for the 9th of August.

cccc

20th Jun 2015, 08:34

Hi Whitste,

Are you type rated or not?
There are a few guys in the pool, non rated, and they are still waiting.

Cheers

Whitste

20th Jun 2015, 14:13

Cccc

I'm a non type rated guy. I'll have waited 5 months from getting the first email to actually starting class in Dubai. It's actually shorter then I expected after reading info on hear I figured around a 6-8 month wait.

cccc

20th Jun 2015, 17:36

Whitste,
Thanks for the info.
I am in the holdingpool since the end of March (also non rated)... I hope to start soon.
Cheers!
Cccc

migair54

20th Jun 2015, 18:01

Hi guys,

how is the interview in Dubai?? I have passed the assessment in Southampton and now I have to go to Dubai after doing an online test, but I don´t know what´s going to happen.

cccc

20th Jun 2015, 18:35

The interview in DXB is pretty much a copy-paste of the one you had with ctc. Basically you are in, unless you really say something stupid during the interview. They just want to meet you and see your commitment in joining the company. Just be yourself and relax.
All the best!

mukalel

21st Jun 2015, 16:56

Looks like they might be having a few non typed classes in september and october.. Got some word from a reliable source today..

migair54

21st Jun 2015, 17:41

cccc thank you for the feed back, I hope I go thru. September or October will be great to start. :-)

In the interview in Southampton we were told that FZ is not planning to hire many more pilots in the rest of the year because of the pool, if they hire it will be Type rated, and we were the last group so far, most of us NTR, but situation can change in a short notice and they will keep accepting applications so the moment they need they can put it together fast.

Regards all.

Whitste

26th Jun 2015, 11:58

CaptFRIZZ

I'm not even on the property yet but my educated guess would be that they don't ,other wise they would publish that on their website.

At 275 hours you should be building time as an instructor, flying charter flights and anything to build time which adds experience.

Once you have that you can land that airline job.

Curious to how you have a type rating with only 275 hours?

B737SFP

26th Jun 2015, 14:01

I believe he meant having 275hrs on type. Let us hope thats not his total flying time !

latetonite

26th Jun 2015, 14:16

If he has 275 hrs on type, he is probably just checked out by the airline. Why would he leave? Or maybe not checked out at all, and kicked out with a license in his pocket? Then he seems to be from Nigeria, and writing funny English.
Any potential employer would raise doubts.

Supersonic2000

26th Jun 2015, 15:25

Hello guys,
I applied for the NTR FO position back in April but I still have no news.
Does anybody happen to know what is more or less the normal waiting time to get a reply from them?...or i should consider myself rejected?
Thanks

mukalel

27th Jun 2015, 13:17

Supersonic2000

27th Jun 2015, 15:46

Thank you man

TheDesertGardener

30th Jun 2015, 20:52

Hello,
Having the B737 MAX more range than the NG, is Flydubai preparing some kind of long haul?

cbr58

1st Jul 2015, 08:58

Hello everybody, i'm following PPRuNe since years, but i've been in the shade all the time :} .
Could anyone please give me an update about the guys whom are joining flydubai via the cae cadet type rating course?

How many during the last months?

Do you know anything about the numbers of people joining through this course for the future?

Last but not least: I have a medical limitation. Is this still an issue for the GCAA?

Many thanks

Vortex Thing

1st Jul 2015, 09:03

Capt Frizz,

Why would you come on an English speaking forum, specifically to a thread about FZ, an airlines whose working language is English and make a comment like.

FYI,. 275 is my total flying hours, after flying school, I went straight for a type. no job experience yet.

and English is not my first language. i'm not one of those brainwash shrimps that think English is everything.

You've got less total time than most of us have done on type since Easter. Unless you intend on staying in The Centre of Excellence for all of your life you need to speak something other than Yoruba, Igbo or whatever is your first language. You will need to work speaking English and you also clearly need to do more listening and less talking until you have gotten some time in.

The answer however to your original question is NO. Having the type rating and no time on type will not help you. You are either a cadet or an FO. If you want a job where you need no hours on type then go to FR.

I would also suggest that you might want to have a little attitude adjustment if you want to come and work somewhere like here. Life is hard enough in Dubai in some aspects and that won't be helped if you think the wwy you write!