Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged

[frogone]

When FlyDubai were doing the recruitment in house they did not charge a fee.

It is CTC that are charging the fee of £150.

[Cloud Bunny]

One of the early complaints from the guys in FlyDubai during the early days of the operation was the lack of flying hours.
What kind of hours are you guys generally doing a month these days? The package as advertised is based around doing 80 hours a month - is this realsitic at present?
Cheers for the info

CB

[SKYWRITER1]

Captains are doing around 80 hrs afaik, F/o's are a bit lower (60ish) due to a load of new recruits rushed through for the 4 new aircraft that arrived in Nov/Dec. Apparently Feb will be the first month where both Captains and F/O's both average more than 80. More routes and longer routes added every month.

SW

[BritishGuy]

Does anybody here know what aptitude testing system CTC is using for the FlyDubai interviews? Is it the same testing as in the 'original' FlyDubai interviews (pre-CTC), or do CTC now use their own one? I know before EPST was the vendor, but now I'm not sure. Anybody have any ideas?

[jettyman]

What I have heard will be PILAPT or something similar...
the selection in Dubai will be done by CTC and they are asking money too...

[BritishGuy]

Oh no - I thought it'd be the local flydubai guys doing the Dubai interviews - the same way as before. Oh well.

[jettyman]

not!!!:}
Somebody know where can we download this pilapt prep test????

[blusky75]

guys don t be stressed about the tests!!! are simple games...try to relax and everything will go well....I asked for the Dubai inteview too....I think the only advantage could be that if You pass the CTC probably you will remain there continuing with the other part of the interview with FlyDubai.... cross the fingers...waiting to know the date!!!

[jupilair]

Blusky you are kidding me mate, don't tell me that you are really thinking to go there??? So you plan to pay 153 pounds for the crooks, plus your ticket to go there, plus your hotac?
Please Blusky if you are so desperate to fly out of Dubai, do you a favor and apply to Emirates or even Etihad or the goat Airways. And if you don't mind to stay in Europe try Privatair.

Anyway Good luck;-)

[blusky75]

I have a jpb..I applied to Private Air but no answer... I fly the Boeing so Ethiad is out for me...for Emirates don t have enough flight experience.... I know it could be a waste of money..but if this is the only way to get in Flydubai...I wanna "invest" these money ( I lost money in more stupid things)...I know, all is a **** but I m very bored to work with a 6 months contract and think every 6 months that I have to find another job...probably I will spend this money and even I ll not pass the interview..but if there is at least 1 % of chance to get a stable job in a very good Company..I feel that I wanna try...

[jupilair]

Hy Bluesky,

I totally understand your position and you are correct on a stable job.
But let me just tell you that you have all your chance with Etihad as they are recruiting Boeing Jockey for the 777, next selection will be in June, look on the website you should be able to find all the infos.
For Qatar it's the same story, they are so desperate...
As for Privatair, keep tune I know that there is a new course starting mid Feb they have difficulties to man the courses as it's really on short notice...So they might need peoples on last minutes like they did for the Jan course.

Good luck and happy landings

[blusky75]

thx for all these infos...i checked out the Ethiad Website..I saw that position for 777 but they require at least 2500 hours and for few houndreds i don t have them plus experience on NG and i m flying the 737 cl....
I have been applying to Qatar Airway several times from lat summer cz i have the requirements but i haven t received any answer yet...
private air the same...:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[winglets1]

what I REALLY don't get is how can a company who charges you for their selection process, BONDS you for 3 years???????????????????????????? :ooh:

[scoteros]

I don't think there is any link between the two...

You have companies not charging for the selection process BUT where you will be bonded and companies where you have to pay for the selection process BUT where there is no bond...AND the one where you get both...

The main purpose of the bond is just to try to make sure that the pilots joining will , at least , stay for 3 years AND it seems to work.

When pilots will be ready to leave despite the fact that they have to pay a bond then the bonding will dissapear but as long as it is working and as long as we accept to sign it why should they stop doing it ?

[Cloud Bunny]

what I REALLY don't get is how can a company who charges you for their selection process, BONDS you for 3 years

To be honest Winglets are we sure that it is FlyDubai who are doing the charging? As has been mentioned before I think this is just CTC getting their two pence worth - either way it's utterly deplorable but I don't think we should be so quick to condem FD over this, after all they will pay for you to complete the second stage in DXB and refund the £150 if successful. Again, I'm not defending it - the £150 should never ever have to be outlaid in the first place.
Would be interesting to know if the guys and girls attending selections in USA, NZ, China, Brazil and Singapore are having to pay any cash for the privalige.
Having said that if anyone has any detailed info on the selection process with CTC I would be very grateful to hear from you!! :}
Cheers
CB

[blusky75]

Is anyone going to Dubai for the interview the first week of Feb?

Pm please

[iranair]

there are alot of replies regarding how crap FD is and how it should be avoided. but nothing on how the selection process works with CTC.. if anyone can post anything regarding id really appreciate it .. as im going for the interview and id love to join them !
many thanks

[wannabeapilot2]

G'day, I am scheduled for an interview early Feb. Have you found any info for interview? Talk soon

[iranair]

hey man .. i have the interview mid Feb .. i have been looking through the threads but with no luck .. ive seen one post from on guy who has attended the selection and it was this
The first day was group exercise,pilapt(pilot aptitude) and interview.we were 8 and separated in to two groups.one group does the group exercise and the other pilapt.The group exercise consists of two tasks.As it was the first time,HR people came from flydubai to watch the process.The plapt does not consist ATPL and maths test as in compass test.It only consists aptitude tests,six of them.You will be given 3 trials and you are required to show improvement from your previous score.After lunch,which is free,6 of us passed for the interview.The interview is evidence based as you have seen in the application.Why do you want to join FD,what will you bring to FD,what is your leadership style.etc.
After the interview,only three guys passed to the next days sim assessment.I was one of the guys who didn't make it to the sim.You spend a lot of money for the entire process.I think it is not fair for FD management to do this.
I wish good luck to all of you who are going to attend one of the assessments.

Well if you find anything better keep me posted
thnks

[muti]

Dude at least you made it fot the fiest part mine didnt even reach that ,but I have agree with the rest of the fellas CTC an FD are not doing anyone a favour by twisting all the rules ,:ok:

[iranair]

all im intrested in, is what actually comes on the day . the tests and all ... but like ive mentioned earlier people are only intrested in posting negative comments.!:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[scoteros]

Dear Iranair,

That's most of the time the case on this site...

Despite the fact that there is nothing I can do for you about the CTC selection tests , I can at least tell you that it is worth joining Flydubai

You can compare with all the low cost carriers around ( in Europe at least ) and you will see that Flydubai is a nice company.

You will fly brand new B737-800 equipped with head up display , accars , the last Boeing sky interior , the brand new passenger entertainment system and soon the satcom system.

Of course , you will not be home and then need to be able to adapt to multi-cultural environment and that's where the problems start for quite a lot of foreigners joining.

If it is not done the way they were used to , it is not good and they start to complain...

Don't pay too much attention to the negative comments , keep your positive attitude and I wish you the best for the CTC selection... :ok::ok::ok:

[blusky75]

No technical interview...isn t it??? Only personal questions i understood....someone can confirm? I m sure many people in here did the interview...but why nobody gives an help??

[Cloud Bunny]

Scoteros,

Please check your PM's. Thanks a lot.

CB :ok:

[DZPILOT87]

any news about SO's recruitment this year ???

Thank you

[Alaska737]

So far the cadet program is a flow through from FD to Emirates. It is for UAE nationals at this point in time.

[blusky75]

any suggestion from the guys who went these days to the selection process??? pls give a feedback for everybody

[Cloud Bunny]

So, considering the title of this thread - does anyone actually have any information regarding the FlyDubai selection??
Please.

[spanishfly69]

LadyLike, this is the future because of pilots like you.

[DIAPER]

The selection process in a shame, no matter how long you have been preparing the assessment or how good you did the sim check and the rest of the exams. At the end they do what they want and they don´t let you know what were your mistakes.
Their criterias for selection is unkown , maybe they didn´t like your face.

[FZckntkawrap]

Boeing Loses Dubai Aerospace Order for 737s at List Price of $2.3 Billion

By Susanna Ray - Feb 4, 2011 4:36 AM GMT+0400


A Boeing Co. 737 aircraft sits on the production floor of the Boeing final assembly facility in Renton, Washington. Photographer: Daniel

Acker/Bloomberg



Boeing Co (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=BA%3AUS). lost an order for 32 737 jets, valued at about $2.3 billion at list prices, from Dubai Aerospace Enterprise Ltd., the state-owned leasing and services company that has said it may drop some purchases.
Dubai Aerospace’s current backlog for 737s is 35, according to a monthly update yesterday on Boeing’s website (http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm), compared with 67 as of December. Separately, Boeing’s weekly order report showed 32 orders for the single-aisle aircraft had been canceled, without identifying the buyer.
Dubai Aerospace has been studying whether to scrap more orders as aircraft demand wanes, two people with knowledge of the matter said in December, after canceling plans last year to buy 47 jets from Boeing and Airbus SAS. An e-mailed request for comment to the company’s headquarters before regular business hours today wasn’t immediately returned.
“It would be inappropriate for Boeing to comment on the details of our agreements with customers,” said Marc Birtel, a spokesman for the planemaker in Seattle (http://topics.bloomberg.com/seattle/), where the company’s commercial operations are based.
Dubai Aerospace was set up in 2006, entering the leasing market during the peak of an air-travel boom, with the aim of becoming one of the world’s biggest airplane lessors. Airlines and leasing companies typically don’t pay list prices.
Boeing also won an order for 10 737s from an unidentified customer, according to yesterday’s update. The order and cancellation brought the Chicago-based company’s net orders for the model in January to zero. Boeing won an order last month for two of its twin-aisle 777 jetliners.

[Old King Coal]

I think you'll find that news is to do with an aircraft leasing company (Dubai Aerospace Enterprise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubai_Aerospace_Enterprise)) and is not, ostensibly, to do with the business entity 'Dubai Aviation Corporation' (which trades as 'flydubai' ) ... albeit who's to say what goes on at the top in the UAE, wrt to who owns what & whom?!

If you have a look at Dubai Aerospace Enterprise cancels 32 737s (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/02/04/352814/dubai-aerospace-enterprise-cancels-32-737s.html) you'll see that it states: "Of the 38 aircraft, DAE's 737 order is made up of 34 737-700s and 4 737-800s. Three of the four 737-800s were delivered in 2010."

Given the majority of aircraft type mentioned (-700 series) it would certainly seem unlikely that this would specifically affect flydubai's deliveries (what with flydubai presently being a solely -800 series operation) ?!

[Maj09]

look again folks.......

[Anthill]

Lady like, I have been in the industry for 23 years and have never paid for a type rating (7 heavy jets) or interview. On one occasion, I paid for my own transport across the country to attend an interview. During the last 12 years, I have been type rated on F100, B737 and B777 and in each instance, the rating was supplied by the company. It was fair that they applied a bond, which I served before moving on. I have not had responses from several companies(ie:Jetstar) as I said that I would not pay for my rating.

The last company provided B777 type rating and paid during training. They had said that my contract would include that I pay for rating and I said that I did not think that appropriate and that I would consider the contract when it was sent as a formal offer. I also said that they should offer more money--guess what?? The contract included B777 rating and more $$$$.

There is a shortage of experienced pilots and it is possible to negotiate a better deal. However, I do suggest that some recruitment companies will only forward candidates who are prepared to be walked over. From the perspective of the airline, this will eventually be seen as a latent organisational deficiency. As for the recruitment consultants, what would they care-not their company, not their responsibility--unless they or a loved one gets killed by a sub-standard crew.

[Hogg]

Nice one man, very good post.
I wish more of us "had the balls". Good on ya :ok:

[DIAPER]

You are one hundred per cent totally rigth .

[DZPILOT87]

hI GUYS !

Any one has an idea wether flydubai hires fresh graduates SO's or not ???

Thank you !

[Cloud Bunny]

Not at the moment no.

[Miss Aviator]

For the record I got invited to CTC selection and no mention of a fee -- however, the fee portion stated "0" so seeing as they have such a column means that they charge sometimes (!!) Very strange. But since mine said zero I will give it a shot....
Now back to the original posted question...
Please if anyone has any info about CTC selection process please share. I have ordered the book "Get a head for the sky" from what I read of two posters on pprune saying it helped them.

[frogone]

The £150 fee has been removed by FD and CTC. I met with some FD guys a few weeks back. Apparently only about 1/3 of the people who started filling out the application actually went on to finish and submit it. So the 'fee' is gone. Makes you wonder what the fee was for in the first place? :suspect:

[DIAPER]

So now they do not ask for money , maybe f/d pay them directly for each guy. Anyway, I hope God give all of you justice instead of luck because for me it´s clear the need to keep the business runing no matter how.
If you decide to go , I guess is better for your pocket make a reservation in ETAP Hotel in Southampton instead of CTC building, it´s cheaper and you will not increase their profit.

GOOD luck.

[iranair]

Has anyone been to the final stage of the interview in dubai ? and maybe you can shine some light on the matter !!!!:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Miss Aviator]

@frogone Do you have any info re CTC's selection process ? Any info would be appreciated (I have read all that is available on pprune) PM if you feel more comfortable.

@DIAPER Thank you for the suggestion, I will check ETAP out. I take it you have been to CTC? Were you there for any selection by chance ?

[MA.82]

Hello mate,
I went through the selection process two weeks ago and luckily got into last stage of the selection - went to the interview in Dubai couple of days ago.
The CTC part is not difficult at all - just briefly interdouce yourself and few group questions to solve as a team with other two or three people there. Their are most likely not so much interested in what kind of solution will you come up with , rather they are looking at your behavior among the group. Then we had a computer based test called PILAPT which was 6 modules of different tasks - mostly to make sure you can choose your priorities and concentrate for certain period of time. After that we had about 40 minutes interview "one on one" with the CTC recruitment person - which was only nice little chat - nothing technical.
The next day we had a sim check which was only about 45 min. as PM and 45 min. as PF in fixbase B737NG kind of sim. No emergeny, just raw data flying no AP no AT no FD, simple departure and some holding and own navigation ILS in Liverpool. And yes. I was little suspicious about paying the 150 GBP but I decided to go for it and see. I had the feeling there is more to be lost if I do not try it than there is those 150GBP. But it is everyone's choice. So good luck mate and I may see you in Dubai. Seeya MA.82

[Sciolistes]

I just read some article on Dubai regarding obtaining credit. It seems that your creditworthiness is wholly (it not majorly) dependant on which company you work for. The banks apparently maintain a list of stable reliable business in the Emirates and so long as you work for one of those firms, you get to drive your Panda/Porsche (delete as appropriate) away.

I presume Emirates Airlines is in good standing. But what about flydubai? It hasn't be up and running that long an may not be in favour with the banks yet, so I wondered if current FD people here could recant their experience of obtaining credit for big purchases.

[skysod]

Been here over 18 months now......never had a problem with my bank (HSBC).:)

[Voodoo 3]

I would imagine a banks lending is more wonga related than who you work for. That is, as long as you've got enough in the bank and you get paid from your company every month, whomever it may be, I wouldn't think there would be too much of an issue getting credit.

Maybe others have had different experiences though.

V3

[stixits]

Good luck! And don't let them scare you with a 3 years $24.000,- bond. Which only made sense if you didn't have to bring your 737 typerating yourself. You might even ask around before you go and check how many people actually made it through 3 years of living in the dust. :E

[Miss Aviator]

Thanks M.A.82,

Nice post. First I have to pass CTC selection to see you in Dubai :)

So what happens if you want to leave before 3 years ? What did the others in this situation do -- fork out the remaining bond money ?

Cheers,
M.A.

[James T. Kirk]

It would be better to avoid taking out large loans in the UAE altogether. The banking system is very different from the ones you may be used to and is often used just to separate the expat from his money. For example, good used cars in the UAE are cheap and could easily be bought for cash. Your western credit card should work perfectly there as well and you would do well to avoid the local cards which they will try to get you to take. You would be very well advised to use your UAE bank account only to get your hard earned money out of the UAE. Most local banks will offer one or two free transfers per month although it is worth checking if these are standing orders or if you have to turn up at your branch and sign forms.

In short if you keep your western account and card running and channel all your finances through that you will be far more fireproof during your time in the UAE.

[SKYWRITER1]

flydubai and Emirates are owned by the same umbrella company, which is basically owned by the government. Your visa even starts with a 2 (I think) which the nice immigration lady told me means you work for the government! As we're taking on cadets later this year (who will gain hours and then have the option to stay or go to EK) your credit rating will not be an issue. As other people have said though, I would think carefully about getting lots of credit. If you ever have any problems and want to leave (for personal reaons say) you'll need to clear the debts unless you plan to do a bunk!

[mave292]

Flydubai forum gone very quiet, are things settling in Flydubai ??

[Captain N]

it must be a good sign, no moaning on PPRUNE is always a good sign

any f/o's would be kind enough to share a roster please? :ok:

[clear of the tower]

Hi,
Anybody going to dubai next week for the final selection interview,5 april,:ok:

[rahulpereira]

SKYWRITER 1
As we're taking on cadets later this year (who will gain hours and then have the option to stay or go to EK) your credit rating will not be an issue.

If you don't mind can you please give more information on the cadet intake scheme of Fly Dubai ?
I did check their website and it doesn't show anything alike, so maybe its still in the developing stages.
I am about to get my FAA CPL in a couple of month's time and would greatly appreciate any information about the cadet program.
I have also applied for EY's cadet program and its been about 8 months that they haven't sent out invitations yet. The reason I mention this is because EY will not entertain CPL holders and was wondering if FlyDubai is similar as well.

Thanks in advance.
Best Regards,
Rahul

[Old King Coal]

Rahul, i think you'll find that's 'Cadets', as in 'Emirati Cadets', as in 'Emirati locals' and is part of their overall Emiratisation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emiratisation) program.

Captain N, it's possible to replace a 'lack of moaning' with apathy!

[travelin12]

Hello All,

I have an Flydubai interview scheduled at CTC in a couple weeks in the UK. Any updates on CTC for those who may have attended recently? Interviewing for Capt. position.

Many thanks,

[michaelknight]

Same request as above, has anyone got any info on the sim check at CTC and the initial day 1? Info is a bit thin on the ground at the moment.

[young nasty man]

What's the deal with this so called pay rise? Seem to me that they have gone from a 2 tier system to a 3 tier system!!

[spotwind]

1. Any idea how much and when ?
(Minor detail omitted from the announcement!)

2. Will the increase offset the increased 'co pay' on the 'substandard' medical policy ?

[SKYWRITER1]

I agree YNM, it wasn't the best worded, but from what I can understand, if you joined in the last 6 months, you get nowt! Just brilliant.

[boeingdriver777]

So have Flydubai increased the salary / accommodation allowance for new Captains?

[young nasty man]

Nope, It looks like if you are in the company more than 6 months you get roughly 5% increase on you basic salary only!! It is not what people were expecting for a "big announcement", but then again it's better than nothing.

[Old King Coal]

If you joined flydubai prior to 1st October 2010, you will get a pay rise.

If you joined flydubai any time from 1st October 2010 onwards you will not get a pay rise.

Also, regardless of when you started, if you have been promoted (e.g. from F/O to Captain) in the period since 1st October 2010 onwards you will not get a pay rise.

There is:

no increase in Housing Allowance;
no increase in Transport Allowance;
no increase in Duty Pay;
no increase in School Allowance;
no increase in Health Care Cover.

For those eligible to receive it (see criteria above), there will be a 4.81% increase in Basic Salary only.

[RandyBMC]

This actually creates four possible scales for Captains:

For arguments sake, we will call them A-D scales. Our first Captains until around September of 2009 received one scale (as did FOs), which is the A-scale.

After that, there was another lower scale, which we'll call the B-Scale. This is a lower scale for FOs hired from the same time as well.

The new raises only apply to folks hired before October 2010, leaving out FOs who upgraded and anyone hired after October 2010.

That leaves us with the following:

A-Scale
A-Scale Captains who received the latest raise (A+ scale).

B-Scale
A-Scale FOs who upgraded and were paid the original A-Scale Captain rate.

C-Scale
B-Scale Captains who received the latest raise (B+ scale).

D-Scale
B-Scale FOs who upgraded and were paid the "unraised" B-Scale Captain rate.
B-Scale Captains hired after October 2010 and all subsequent new hire DECs.

The difference between the A-Scale Captain and the D-Scale Captain is roughly 77,000AED per year. The original difference between A-Scale and the original B-Scale introduced in September 2009 is 62,400AED per year.

Obviously, the difference between the new scales is only about 5%, which doesn't equate to a big disparity.

I don't want to offer opinion at this point.

Randy

[onvacation]

I'll offer an opinion....IT BLOWS!!!

[The cosmopolitan boy]

Good day,
Does any of you know what are the requirements and time table to upgrade from FO to Captain in FD?

Many thanks:ok:

[tothepoint]

have another Cosmo boy, get slightly wasted and deluded then think about life as a FZ pilot living in DXB.

Wake up hung over and hope you don't remember anything!!!!

[Alltheway]

Hi All,

Have selection next month in Dubai and wondered if anyone has been through recently.

Do FD ask ATPL questions in the "Competency based interview"?

I've trawled through previous threads including "FD Selection" but no joy.

Any info greatly appreciated.

Safe flights.

[Alltheway]

Hi All,

Have selection next month in Dubai and wondered if anyone has been through recently.

Do FD ask ATPL questions in the "Competency based interview"?

I've trawled through previous threads including "FD Selection" but no joy.

Any info greatly appreciated.

Safe flights.

[brokenstaticwick]

I can't believe this place...they inundate us with ways we can save them millions operationally, and yet they alienate a bunch of pilots by not including them in a meager pay raise! How much money does pilot morale cost/save/make an airline?

A-D scale
Terrible scheduling practices
Awful insurance
Upgrade based on how much a__ you kiss
HR department that doesn't like pilots

When my bond expires....I'm out!!!

[tothepoint]

Broken Wick,

sounds like there are alot of people baking cakes not to worry about the pay scale and other issues you mention.

Just remember if you're feeling a little down, as long as you stand up again you have a chance to win!!!

[Alltheway]

For me, FD is a big payrise. I have selection in 2 weeks and understand your unhappy but wondered if I could ask for some assistance on what to expect.

Did you by chance go via CTC or direct?

I'm screening in Dubai with CTC's presence.

Read through all the threads but nothing concrete on FD panel questions, Sim assesment.

Any info greatfully appreciated.

Safe flights.

P.S Air Baltic screening this month.

[mave292]

Has anybody who banks with Emirates NBD noticed that Flydubai salary has not been lodged yet ?? Normally goes in the morning of the 24th ?

[tothepoint]

Mave,

Possibly your missing DOUGH was used to bake the Cakes.

[Voodoo 3]

No fear mave 292, it's there now :ok:

[onvacation]

This actually creates four possible scales for Captains:

For arguments sake, we will call them A-D scales. Our first Captains until around September of 2009 received one scale (as did FOs), which is the A-scale.

After that, there was another lower scale, which we'll call the B-Scale. This is a lower scale for FOs hired from the same time as well.

The new raises only apply to folks hired before October 2010, leaving out FOs who upgraded and anyone hired after October 2010.

That leaves us with the following:

A-Scale
A-Scale Captains who received the latest raise (A+ scale).

B-Scale
A-Scale FOs who upgraded and were paid the original A-Scale Captain rate.

C-Scale
B-Scale Captains who received the latest raise (B+ scale).

D-Scale
B-Scale FOs who upgraded and were paid the "unraised" B-Scale Captain rate.
B-Scale Captains hired after October 2010 and all subsequent new hire DECs.

The difference between the A-Scale Captain and the D-Scale Captain is roughly 77,000AED per year. The original difference between A-Scale and the original B-Scale introduced in September 2009 is 62,400AED per year.

Obviously, the difference between the new scales is only about 5%, which doesn't equate to a big disparity.

I don't want to offer opinion at this point.

Randy

The COO of Flydubai was the former CEO of Skybus...In this perspective, the pay rates make more sense. The business model at Skybus included exploiting employees! They will pay what they think they can get away with (just like any management) however, I feel the different scales will kill loyalty!

Skybus Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skybus_Airlines)

Business model

Attempting to emulate Ryanair's business model and Southwest's people-friendly attitude (often considered at odds in comparisons of the two airlines), Skybus had committed itself to be the least expensive airline in the industry with a projected CASM 28% lower than Southwest. To achieve this, Skybus planned to utilize multiple measures designed to increase revenue and decrease costs.


Employee Wages
Flight attendants were paid $9 per flight hour, and were not paid a per diem. While this was considerably lower than competing airlines' wages, flight attendants also received 10% of all sales made during the flight, splitting all commissions evenly among all flight attendants on-board.
Starting pilot wages were also well below average in terms of hourly rate, starting at $65,000 annually for Captains, and $30,000 for First Officers as a minimum guarantee. The average captain's earnings were about $90,000 vs $120,000 per year for a theoretical first year Captain at airlines like United Airlines (there is no first year pay at United) but in the case of Skybus this included a significant stock options and profit share package unique in the airline industry. Additionally unusual for Skybus flight crew was that there were very few if any overnight trips thus giving the crew far fewer hours away from home (known as TAFB or time away from base) and higher crew utilization rates for more efficient work schedules. Typical Skybus pilot workdays were 8–10 hours long (FAA maximum is 16 hours), which was lower than the industry average of 12–14 hours. Typical pilot work months were 14–15 days with no overnights.[21][22] The average pilot in the US has a work month of 16–17 days, and the average airline pilot wage is approximately $135,000 averaged between first officer and captain pay.[23]
Skybus was one of the few 100% non-union airlines in the United States at the time of its shutdown. However, it was facing a union organizing campaign from its pilots, who had collected enough signatures to hold a union referendum. The pilots were seeking to join Local 747 of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, based in Houston, Texas. Because of the number of signatures collected, it was presumed that the campaign would be successful. The election would have most likely occurred sometime in April 2008. Successful unionization could have severely undermined Skybus's below-market compensation philosophy and laid the framework for union activity among other Skybus employee groups. (Note that there is precedent for unionized pilots with most other employee groups remaining non-union, as is the case at Delta Air Lines.)

[RandyBMC]

Air India flights cancelled by strike - The National (http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/air-india-flights-cancelled-by-strike)

I found this an interesting read. The biggest issue is non-parity for the same position.

This pay model obviously is divisive.

[dubaigong]

So RandyBMC , what do you suggest ? :confused:

You want to try the same game in Dubai ? :E:E

[RandyBMC]

No suggestion for a strike, just a hope that our managers responsible for the pay change may take heed at the level of divisiveness this pay scale scheme can cause.

I am hopeful that they can realize the savings (or costs) a happy pilot group can make are significant and difficult to monitor, but no less important to the bottom line. As the poster referred to above, Skybus didn't work.

Just wanting to help make our airline a place all pilots can be happy with.

My suggestion (not that I am in any position to make one) was to bring all pilots to "A-scale" with a one time bonus to current A-scale pilots. If that was too high a cost to the company, a simple stagger in pay raise, with a higher percentage to the B-scale pilots, would have at least brought us all closer to parity instead of increasing the gap. Also, a document outlining yearly raises would certainly help retainment as well as recruiting, and could offer a plan that is in sight of all pilots being on parity for the same position, with some making more than others based strictly on years served. I now make less than someone doing the same position that was hired a year after I was. That just doesn't seem right to me and numerous others.

The good news is that there is always a way to make it right, and the sooner it is done, the better morale will be. If nothing is done, morale will suffer.

Just my opinion,
Randy

[dubaigong]

I don't know for how long you are here and in aviation ( low cost at least )
but I can tell you that with my experience ( in Europe ) the management in these kind of company don't care at all about your morale or mood.
There is a well known and successful company in Europe treating the pilots very badly but still making money and growing a lot faster than Flydubai despite what we are told every week that we are the fastest growing airline on the planet...
Pilots there are in general unhappy but still work there for many reasons like here people are quite upset but still staying here and doing their job.
All I am sure about aviation after so many years is that there will always be somebody ready to take your seat and be pleased with the conditions because he is coming from a country where they would be paid less than half what they get here or not left seat upgrade available for years or lost his job or need to go far away from his ex-wife and avoid to pay her some pension etc , etc , etc....
But the funny thing is that despite Skybus has been a failure the boss has been hired here....
So the lesson to learn is that it is better to fail when being a manager because you will be given another chance and most probably you can blame the others for the failure while being a pilot if you fail it will be in your file and will follow you for the rest of your career...
About the future here , my opinion , it will never improve it is like when you start building a wall if you don't start it straight from the beginning it will never be straight...

Good luck to you and I hope you will prove me wrong :ok:

[onvacation]

It is nice to see pilots with a spine!

gulfnews : More flights cancelled as strike continues to bleed Air India (http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/more-flights-cancelled-as-strike-continues-to-bleed-air-india-1.801911)


New Delhi: Air India pilots demanding more pay refused to work for the fifth straight day Sunday, defying a court order to end their strike and forcing the beleaguered national carrier to cancel three-fourths of its scheduled flights.
The airline said the strike that started on Wednesday was now costing it around Rs12 million (Dh1 million) a day.
Air India cancelled all but 40 of its 165 scheduled flights yesterday, leaving thousands more passengers stranded around the country after similar cancellations each day since Wednesday.
It said that while 90 per cent of domestic routes were affected, international flights were still operating between India and the United States, Europe, China and the Middle East. The airline has been hiring chartered flights for some routes.
Last week, the Delhi High Court ordered the 800 striking pilots to call off their action, saying it was "brazen and smacking of sheer arrogance", and launched contempt of court proceedings on Saturday when they refused to go back to work.
Three-pronged demands
The pilots are demanding higher pay, an investigation into alleged mismanagement leading to losses of over Rs160 billion, and removal of Arvind Jadhav as the airline's managing director. The Indian Commercial Pilot Association said on Saturday it had no choice but to continue its strike since neither the government nor Air India's management had invited the pilots for talks.
The airline, however, has threatened to fire the striking pilots. Nine already have been let go and six suspended. Other carriers were reportedly increasing fares as desperate Air India passengers looked for alternatives.
India's once-proud national carrier has been losing about $1 billion a year as it struggles with the legacy of a poorly executed 2007 merger, debt costs, a swollen staff and a toxic gulf between management and powerful unions.
The government extended hundreds of millions in bailout funds last year to help the company weather the global economic slowdown and compete with international rivals.
Internal appeal
Air India has sent a message to all of its staff asking for their help to end a strike by some of its pilots. Members of the Indian Commercial Pilots Association, representing Air India employees who once worked at Indian Airlines, started the strike on April 27 to demand pay parity with their colleagues.
The "ICPA struck work illegally for pay increase and parity, thus threatening our survival", Air India said in its message to staff. "Risking our airline's survival at this time is criminal." The company said it appealed to staff "to cooperate and to persuade our pilot friends to return to work and discussions — let us start afresh".
— With inputs from*Bloomberg

[straightin]

Hi,

I have an assessment booked with CTC for Flydubai in Southampton, but got little or no updated information on the written & oral tests & sim check.

Does anybody have recent information?

Many thanks.

[RandyBMC]

To answer you dubaigong, I have been in aviation for a shade over twenty years, but I know that is relatively short in comparison to some.

From the experience I do have though, I know what cost pilots that are unhappy can have.

It is fine if you are making money hand over fist as an airline to take the hit that low morale will most definitely cause. It is another all together if you are a start-up trying to squeak every dirham out in order to break even.

The "free" money that can be had well outweighs the cost to keep your employees happy. That goes for just about any business, but is especially applicable to the pilot group. Fuel costs, on time performance, diversion decisions - these are all high cost decisions that you want your pilots making being on the side of the company, not against.

I have watched pilot morale decline to the lowest depths at a previous company, and I watched the cost to the company that had. There is a chance with this company, even with mistakes that have been made, to do the right thing. It works incredibly well - I've seen that too.

There have been numerous comparisons to Southwest here at flydubai. The biggest mantra of Herb was take care of your employees first, customers second, and stock holders last. The lesson there is take care of your employees and the rest will follow. It is a shame so many companies in and out of aviation have lost that ideal. It is simple and effective, and costs more to avoid than to embrace. Maybe the world economy wouldn't be suffering so badly if this were not pulled from the boardroom decisions.

Again, just my thoughts, and maybe I am naive. I know that it has worked at many businesses, including the one I ran.

Randy

[dubaigong]

I totally agree with you Bug Up , these are the most important issues at Flydubai but it seems that pilots are more interested in wages than safety...

I spoke about that training issue with a few trainers and it seems that none of them are ready to take drastic action because each of them individually are happy about their own performance as trainers , they don't want to rock the boat and they want to keep their position... :(

The only thing that will have effect is if all the trainers were offering their resignation at the same time collectively.... But this will not happen... :ugh:

So again in a country where union are forbidden and people are looking for their own personal interest I really doubt that things will change.

We have already lost a few of our pilots ( captain and first officer ) and more will leave if things continue that way and jobs become available in their home country.

But they will find other pilots accepting the situation and the conditions...:\

[mave292]

Well said Bug Up :D When the Head of Training is concerned about the Standards I think safety, standards and the Training department needs to be reviewed asap

[Old King Coal]

I agree with some of what's been said,... but not all.

Recent failures in the sim, on the line, and also of some Command upgrades, probably reflect the tightening of the recruitment market (in terms of pilot ability & availability) than any fundamental change in the required 'standard', i.e. the Standard hasn't changed and the Training hasn't changed, so go figure what has changed?!

Now as for recently upgraded 'A' scale F/O's not getting the 'A' scale Captain's pay rise, well I'm actually quite surprised that flydubai didn't take the opportunity to put those 'A' scale F/O upgraders onto the Captains 'B' scale ?!

It would surely be fairer if F/O's newly promoted into the LHS were on the same salary scale as any Direct Entry Captain who joined on the same date on which that F/O achieved their upgrade?!

I'm equally surprised that recently upgraded F/O's did not have to pull a new seniority number, i.e. one from the bottom of the Captains list… they are, after all, on a new Contract as a Captain (than as per their previous contract as an F/O) ?!

So we now have a situation where Direct Entry Captains who joined, say, 12 months ago, are now sliding down the Captains seniority list (important for thinks like leave bids) as & when those who where F/O's achieve a Command (F/O's who joined, say, 18 months ago) ?!

Again, it would surely be fairer if F/O's whom have newly upgraded to Captain were junior (in terms of seniority number) to those who have held that rank within the company for a longer period ?!

[FZckntkawrap]

Wow, OKC.....you can sum your post up in this: Screw the experienced pilots who came to flydubai and accepted A scale first officer positions just because they were not current on the 737. Why don't you just suggest flydubai make the upgrades sign new 3 year training bonds as well :ugh:

Joining date is everything.......get in early. Why should someone who joined at a later date be senior to anyone for anything?

The pay issue is absurd and a black mark on this airline :ouch:, however anyone that joined after summer 2009 knew the rate BEFORE they interviewed and signed anyway.....

Also, it makes me sick that ANY pilot would advocate another pilot making less just because they joined later and AGREED to work at a lower pay rate! However, GREED does seem to be the only constant in this world.......:ok:

[tothepoint]

OLD MAN COAL,

your fire must be low on hot coals with that ridiculous rant!!

An F/O that has been there 18 months and upgrades (most of whom outshine a number of DEC's) has every right to maintain their number in the queue. Length of service, loyalty and putting up with the Bulls..t that has been posted about for a longer period of time has to count for something in the current day of diminishing conditions.

Drawing a new CAPTAINS seniority number is as stupid as the new pay scales!!

Shovel a little more coal onto the fire before you think next time, it might help.

[onvacation]

Don't fool yourselves.....pay has always been one of the most important aspects of employment...and it always will be! Anyone mentioning that everyone is tired of hearing about it must be on the A scale!

[dubaigong]

Onvacation , it is your right to think so BUT it would be fair to respect that some people are not thinking like you.

Salary is far back in my priorities when looking for a job as long as the money I get is respectable...

I have been working for far less than the money I get today and I have been a lot happier than today.

If it was possible , I would leave my position and salary here to get back to my previous life , unfortunately it is impossible.

But I am actively looking for another job NOT because of the salary but because of all the other more important issues that should be sorted out , according to me , to make this place a nice place to work long term...

I respect your view , so please respect mine and believe me I am not fooling myself...

If you know a major company in a European country ( part of the European community ) ready to hire me even at half my salary here to get back a high standard training , union protection , pension , good national insurance etc...
please feel free to send me a personal message and you can have my seat :ok::ok:

[onvacation]

No disrespect. I'm also not happy with Flydubai for reasons other than pay. My point was that pay is always a top concern for any employee.
Legal unionization here is a foregone conclusion. I would also like that kind of representation, but we can not have that luxury! I doubt a union would address your safety concerns like a competent management team would. Contract negotiations always come down to pay, benefits and work rules. Air India pilots didn't strike over safety issues (and based on their safety record, I assume they also have many issues that need addressing) They held a strike for pay parity...something that we now have less of thanks to a short sighted decision.

[dubaigong]

So now it is an easier choice...

For pilots interested in good salary go for Emirates they just got a 8% increase and a 12 weeks salary bonus :ok::ok:

Compare with the 2,24 % ich increase in Flydubai and no bonus :\

Plus the brand new nice destination forecast like Kandahar....:{ but don't worry they say it is safe if not of course they will not send us there :sad:

[captainsmiffy]

Actually, the jury is still out on the 8% at EK! Nobody can make sense of the letter on which the rise was reported!! It is, I can say with confidence, either 3%, 5% or 8% depending on how you read the letter!!! Marvellous stuff.

[skysod]

Now taking non type rated captains and FO's...check out flydubai.com
for details. :)

[BurDubaiBob]

Sounds to me like they're getting desperate?!

Skysod, please don't forget to mention that non type-rated pilots will be bonded for $36,000 USD (though it's 'only' $24,000 USD for those with a B737 type-rating :ugh: ) decreasing over 3 years.

And you also failed to mention the complete lack of health insurance cover for USA.

And the 'projected' monthly earnings is based on someone doing 80 block hours per month. This is something which few pilots are achieving due to inefficiencies in rostering coupled with a lack of destinations. So the take-home pay will in fact be quite a bit less than the 'projected' figure quoted on flydubais web site!

And safety is, yet again, being compromised, with the Chief Pilot now actively supporting pilots who've made appalling mistakes (crashes) in the simulator, rather than backing the TRE's whose task it is to maintain standards! The sooner he leaves, the better!!

[dubaigong]

BurDubaiBob,

I don't know what you are talking about with the "simulator crashes" BUT even then the Chief Pilot as far as I know is not the responsible for training...

There is a Head of Training who should take action in this case and if not the Chief Pilot can not be blame for that OR you mean that the Head of Training has no power AND then the situation is really bad in the company....

The new Chief Pilot will be there in June so we will see if things will change BUT I doubt it.

What about the TRE ? If he disagrees with the decision taken he should do something about it...

In this case I would have offer my resignation or at least try to get a group of trainers with me to protest about it....

Trainers should also take their responsibilities , if they disagree with what is done they should say it and react.

What are we waiting for ? an incident or worse an accident....

[skysod]

I was not giving an opinion one way or another.......just passing on the news and leaving it up to those who are interested to decide for themselves.:)

[Voodoo 3]

And safety is, yet again, being compromised, with the Chief Pilot now actively supporting pilots who've made appalling mistakes (crashes) in the simulator, rather than backing the TRE's whose task it is to maintain standards!
BDB You're kidding right?!

I'm sure people mash up in the sim from time to time but crashing!!!. Surely that would mean extra training at the very least and if no improvement then maybe suggesting that flying isn't for you?

[pylet]

Does the flydubai package include any accommodation in Dubai?

[Jeffdh17]

Can anyone comment on the timeframe from application to notification that the screening was successful and one can proceed to book a slot at CTC in the UK?

[Soprano]

Can any flydubai fo's be willing to comment on current take home pay? Also what's the cost of living like? Is the accommodation allowance enough?
And do you need your own transport to get to and from work? I.e do you have to buy a car?

[ashoo89]

Hello..
How does flydubai call for an interview... Do they e-mail or call on phone?

Thanks in advance.

[Jeffdh17]

Can anyone provide details of the CTC interview in Southampton?

Thanks!

[ABBOT]

EY best bet EK better bet, FZ:ugh:

[Daniel777]

Hi! Just out of interest, what would be the chances for somebody with 500 hours on B737NG but only 800 hours TT?

Thanks,

Danny

[Voodoo 3]

Daniel 777,

Probably pretty good as at least you've got a type rating. The company is looking to recruit non-type rated now but even though you are fairly low on hours it why not send an application in?

[despegue]

Quick question:

Do Flydubai crew get ID tickets with Emirates and/or other IATA carriers? If so, is this in Y or C?

Is the salary quoted for DEC (52800 AED) including housing allowance?

Thanks,

D.

[Daniel777]

Thanks for the reply!

[adverse-bump]

Does anyone have any info on what to expect at ctc?

[DutchExpat]

So nobody wants to share any info on rosters or selection process?

[mave292]

Its a random roster mixed with days and nights usually and the selection process is done by CTC initally and not Flydubai so ur asking on the wrong forum

[maxalphaboy]

I have an interview with FD in June, I was really keen when I found out that the company was recruiting Non TR guys.

Since reading some of the comments and opinions in this forum however, I am starting to have doubts about even going.

In all honesty, is the standard and Safety within the company as bad as is being made out? I have long days now and plenty of disruption so that is no big deal, even if the pay is as advertised its still significantly more than I earn now.

I am employed in the UK by a large regional carrier, where I am permanent and going through the process of command. However the earning potential and the aircraft type and lifestyle all appeal to me, which is why I first applied.

I guess my point is, from those with sensible, honest and no axe to grind. Would you recommend FD for someone as an intermediate step to bigger and better things?

MAB :ok:

[Dio]

FlyDubai is NO Emirates!!

It's got it fare share of problems, roster isn't great, no logic to it, mix of night and day duties, some extremely long days DAC etc.

Safety and standards are a concern, some excellent guys here but also some terrible ones. A lot of direct entry Captains would not pass the upgrade course here!!

A bond for rated pilots and 4 different payscales!! This is the biggest bone of contention!! We were told by the chief pilot that everyone was to get a pay increase and that is not what happened, so you can make of his word what you want!!

You get a transport allowance and accommodation allowance, do with it what you will!! No pension, no real loss of licence and no profit share, as of EK's last profit share an Emirates FO is earning the same money as a new entry FlyDubai Capt!!

If you have the requirements for Emirates go there, it too has it's problems but at least your pocket will be a lot fatter!!

Good point's, new machine that are well kitted out and if you're coming from Europe Dubai is less expensive and not a bad town to live in, some people will disagree.

Do your homework before you commit to coming down.

[SKYWRITER1]

Dubai is LESS expensive!! :eek: for what? petrol - yeah, food - no, housing - no, beer -no, clothes - no, electronics - not really.

Having said that, Dubai has its plus sides too, and I quite like FD.

[Dio]

Europe is a big place!! And Dubai is cheaper than the part i'm from!! As I said, do your homework before you decide to come down here:ugh:

[mompi]

Question for former RYR pilots and TRE´s
whats the big difference...flying, standard, etc. You like it there? (I don´t mean Dubai.....I mean FD)
I´m just about to apply
Thanks

[michaelmchl]

currently im a FO on B767 with exp of more than 2700hrs of which 1300hrs is on B767 kindly is there any one who can tell me about available jobs on any jet

[SKYWRITER1]

Why not look on the flydubai website? Ongoing big recruitment drive, now taking non-rated

[Jeffdh17]

Have you got any idea if the sim check is the same for non-typed applicants? Seems like a bit much for one that has not set foot in the 737......

[dubaigong]

Jeffdh17,

I don't see why this would be too much for a non type rated pilot ?

Years ago , I have been for an interview and been sent to a B767 simulator (never seen in my life before) had to do the same usual things , take off SID , engine failure , 1# approach , 1# go around , 1# landing etc...
Of course they will not expect you to fly their perfect speed or procedures but see if you can properly control the aircraft and how you improve during the session...

[tothepoint]

According to FZ the BOND of 24K is as if you're rated or non rated.

It certainly ties the hands of some wanting to leave.

It's a joke, like the pay scales and the b/s most of the crew put up with at FZ.

Having a choice EK as an F/O sure beats what is on offer at FZ.

If you're thinking of heading to Dubai for a career then EK is the plan. If you are filling in time and don't mind an average workplace to get some cashflow between jobs then fine but remember the bond and the rental committment!

Choice ey bro!

[Cloud Bunny]

Ummm, I've got nothing to do with FlyDubai, but until recently was considering it as an option. I just thought I would correct a rather large mistake or misleading information regarding the housing allowance. The housing allowance of 14000 DHMs which will only cover approx 10% to 20% of what you will be asked to pay for a decent single bedroom flat as quoted by straightin is completely wrong. That figure is monthly and unless they have put it up (which I doubt) then for F/O's it is 12,000AED/Month. (It might be 14,000AED for skippers I have no clue). Anyway the point is that I have many friends in DXB who live in some quite frankly palatial one bedroom apartments for 8,000AED/Month, so the information that the housing allowance will only cover 10% of the cost is crap. It should cover all of it and if your sensible then you will have enough left over to cover the bills.
I have done plenty of research on this subject, I am very shortly moving to Dubai myself. Not with FZ but like I said I was considering it and so have a good grip on the figures involved in the F/O package.
Good luck all :ok:

[Sciolistes]

so the information that the housing allowance will only cover 10% of the cost is crap. It should cover all of it and if your sensible then you will have enough left over to cover the bills.
Indeed, and not just that post on this thread. There is a fair amount of total crap being written and it does a severe disservice to those who are trying to figure out their options and need proper facts and acurate experiences.

[Jeffdh17]

Spoke with a guy that just completed the CTC assessment. He apparently did not do any single engine work. Leads me to believe perhaps there is a difference in the sim evaluation for rated/vs non-rated.

Good Luck to all attending soon.

Some pilots are just awesome eh? Just ask them and they'll tell you....:D

[Dio]

Right lads, heres the actual deal

New Capt

23500ish Salary
14000 Accom allow
2300 Transport
150 per hour flight pay
expect 70 hours not the 80 advertised

The accom situation is fine in Dubai now. Be sensible and you'll get a nice place nearly anywhere in the city, it obviously depends on your family circumstances!! Take your bills and 5% municipality tax out of your monthly allowance.

New FO

17000 Salary
12000 Accom allow
1700 Transport
100 per hour flight pay
again expect about 70 hours a month

The problem with the pay in Flydubai is there are now 4 different payscales depending on how long you are in the company. For anyone thinking of joining Flydubai remember that an FO in Emirates will earn the same yearly income as a Capt in Flydubai!! Plus Emirates will put you in accomodation, pay your bills(to a certain amount) and you won't have to pay the 5% municipality tax.

[lionoftheleft]

I'm wondering if anyone has attended the screening in Dubai. If yes, may you say if the aptitude test is either the PILAPT or Sky Test for Middle East.
I was told that Sky Test is used by EK and PILAPT is used by CTC in England. Since interviews will be conducted in Dubai soon, which aptitude test will FZ use in Dubai?

[airpasty]

Hi all, I have an interview coming up soon, firstly, what kind of questions are they asking at the CTC interview and how involved is the Dubai interview? I thought after jumping through hoops at CTC the Dubai interview would be a more relaxed affair.

[Old King Coal]

xerox25 - you're a tadge out there mate... we're not all on the lower scales, and so here's some reality (always remembering that the basic figures are / were already in the public domain):

Dec block hours = 62:19 --> Jan 2011 take home pay 54,810 Dhs ($14,921 USD)
Jan block hours = 61:52 --> Feb 2011 take home pay 57,115 Dhs ($15,549 USD)
Feb block hours = 62:55 --> Mar 2011 take home pay 55,868 Dhs ($15,209 USD)
Mar block hours = 65:44 --> Apr 2011 take home pay 56,570 Dhs ($15,401 USD)
Apr block hours = 61:50 --> May 2011 take home pay 57,835 Dhs ($15,745 USD)
May block hours = 81:43 --> Jun 2011 take home pay 58,963 Dhs ($16,052 USD)
Jun block hours = 71:45 --> Jul 2011 take home pay 57,468 Dhs ($15,645 USD) <-- projected figure, i.e. it might be more, subject call-out from standby.

Over a period of 7 months, that equates to an average take-home pay of 56,947 Dhs ($15,503 USD).

As can be seen, they're not exactly working me to death and, fwiw, June's projected figures look as follows: block hours = 71:45; Duty = 127:29; Days off = 9; Standby's = 2; Flight Days = 16; Sectors = 32.

I have no jet lag and I am home every day.

That said, what we need to do is to find a way to lift those guys & girls whom are presently on the 'other' (lower) salary scales back to the 'A' scale,... and it's my belief that the impending shortage of experienced pilots will cause that to happen (sooner or later), it being very much a case of 'supply & demand' and remembering that all the airlines are fishing from out of the same bucket for 'experienced' pilots!

KRgds,

OKC, FlyDubai, Line-Captain ( 'A' scale ) :O

[dubaigong]

Dear Old King Coal,

You should state that the amount you are giving here is with the 16000 Dhrs for the house allowance and the 4000 Dhrs for the transportation allowance , so that reduces all your figures by 20000 Dhrs.

You can not include these allowances in your salary and compare with EK as for them the house and the transport is provided by the company.

Just to be fair when comparing.

You should also add that in EK they have received a nice basic salary increase of 5 % to 8 % plus 12 weeks salary bonus... while Flydubai's pilots have got a mere 2,5 % or nothing depending on your date of joining...

[SKYWRITER1]

Its not a p!ssing contest about who earns the most! Pilots at flydubai know there are bigger salaries out there. There is more to life for some people than hard cash. The numbers given above are to help people who want may want to join, nothing more. And whilst they do include a housing/car allowance, you get to keep what you dont spend, which for most people is a reasonable chunk at the moment due to the much lower house prices.

That is all.

SW

[Old King Coal]

dubaigong - where I come from ones 'take-home pay' is what one gets to live on, after taxation deductions (which are not applicable in the UAE) and prior to deductions for ones personal living expenses (e.g. mortgage / rent, transport, bills, etc)... and that's why I used this term and have shown the figures accordingly (above).

Imho, it does not matter what ones 'salary' is. What matters is how much you end up with in the bank every month - for which I have candidly highlighted my own figures.

Having received ones monthly salary AND ALLOWANCES, how one then choose to dispose of it is entirely up to oneself (and that's the deal we have with flydubai).

E.g. I could choose to live in a big apartment on The Palm Jumeirah (I did that for 1 year; it cost me a fortune! ) or I could move to a more modest location and pocket the difference (nice!).

The same is also true for ones method of transport. E.g. one could choose to forego buying a car and instead get taxis everywhere (which are certainly plentiful in Dubai) or one could get a car loan (also easily obtained) or one could simply buy a car outright. I own my own car (which was showroom new as of 2 years ago) and so now the 4,000 Dhs per month that flydubai provide for my 'transport allowance' is put towards its running costs (which are minimal) and / or whatever else I choose to spend it upon.

So yes, the above figures do include my Housing & Transport allowances but, after paying out for each of these + various household bills, I'm usually having to scrape by on just 46,000 Dhs ($12,500 USD) per month... uhm, I just don't know how I manage ?! :E

And, fwiw, prior to moving to flydubai I was offered DEC with a number of other Middle East wide-body operators, but I turned them down as I've played the long-haul (away-from-home-all-the-time) game before, and don't care for it.

Dare one ask if Emirates pilots got the bonus you mentioned when EK had been operating for just 2 years ?! (nb. flydubai operated it's 1st commercial flight 2 years ago today). If so, good for them, and therein we'll have to work upon getting the same for us too at flydubai !! :)

ATB,

OKC

Ps. Since making that post above, I've been inundated with PM's for additional information about joining flydubai and / or living in dubai. i will write something to (hopefully) address all those requests within 24 hours.

[mave292]

Ok guys, now show the figure for a pilot on B scale and they are nowhere near OKC figures so lets get a grip to reality again,also those crew members that joined AFTER Sept 2010 did not receive the payrise. B scale F/O working 65 hours a month EXCLUDING housing allowance :

basic 17000 (without payrise)
trans 1700
sector 6500

TOTAL 25200


Just a tad different from OKC "A" scale figures

[Old King Coal]

As I mentioned above (though somewhat quicker than I expected), I'll now endeavour to answer the various points that have been asked of me in copious numbers of PM's and try and do so as dispassionately as I can.

Recruitment for flydubai;


Please do not ask / PM me for inside-knowledge and / or details of who and / or what is involved in the assessment process; if only because I do not know the answers to those questions. Nb. The folks who joined flydubai in the early days went through the exact same process that Emirates pilots go through, whereas, today, the flydubai recruitment process is outsourced to CTC in the UK.
It is fairly common knowledge that flydubai intends to try and recruit another 600 pilots within the next 4 years and, as is typical in the Middle East, those pilots are required to be 'experienced' (if only because the UAE GCAA won't validate your overseas ATPL if you're not 'experienced' enough… at least that's my understanding of it?! ). This figure will include a mixture of DEC's & F/O's, and it assumes that nobody here already decides to leave?! Nb. My own personal view is that all the airlines are fishing in the same bucket for experienced pilots and that flydubai (and other airlines) are going to find it harder and harder to recruit 'experienced' pilots.
Also, and just to muddy the flydubai waters just a tadge, there's talk (it changes weekly) of flydubai getting Cadets. i.e. UAE cadets from across the road at Emirates (as the predominate type of flying that Emirates do, does not facilitate the training / handling-skills that are, apparently, more readily available within a 'low-cost' / short-haul environment).
I should perhaps add that the failure rate for pilot applicants is seemingly rather high (just as it is for Emirates too) with approx 60% to 75% failing the process.
One could of course apply and then see what happens, i.e. go through the selection process and if they then make you an offer one can then think about it?!


flydubai Up-Sides:


It is generally good fun.
The vast majority of crews are top notch and nice folk to go to work with.
The oldest aircraft in the fleet is not yet 2 years old and all are the 'short-field' performance variety (which helps on a -800), plus an HGS/HUD for the Captain.
The routes are varied (Timetable - where we fly - flydubai (http://flydubai.com/english/where-we-fly/timetable.aspx) ) and the list is growing all the time.
The salary is paid promptly every month and / or paid early should pay day (normally 26th of each month) fall within a weekend and / or Public Holiday.
We have access to cheap flights on flydubai and also with Emirates Airlines (any mixture of 'firm-seat' and / or 'standby' tickets are available... though the process of getting tickets for discounted travel on EK can be a bit tiresome).
If you're a F/O, depending your upon total hours / experience on type, etc, you could conceivably be in the LHS once you've completed 1 year (following your initial line check) in the RHS.
Entitled to 6 weeks of paid holiday per year, and for which flydubai will provide a roundtrip, economy ticket, to your nominated home destination for yourself and family (up to a max of 3 children, whom must be under 18 years) on a once per year basis, OR you can take the cash equivalent (flights are with Emirates and are ticketed / priced to an Emirates gateway destination).
Housing allowance is typically paid as part of your monthly salary. That said, rents in the UAE are normally paid via a number of pre-dated cheques in advance, e.g twice yearly, or thrice yearly, or quarterly (i.e. it's negotiable with the landlord). If you haven't got the funds to pay that kind of money up-front, then flydubai will advance you up to 1/2 of your annualised housing allowance for that purpose, subject to them seeing / confirming your accommodation contract (and do remember that this can put you in debt to the company - see my comments below about being in debt in the UAE).
The education allowance seems to cover most of what's available in Dubai.. with the possible exceptions of Repton (= expensive) and / or JESS @ Arabian Ranches (which requires a hefty 'Debenture' payment 'per child' which flydubai will not cover; unlike Emirates who do cover it for their pilots who want their kids to go to that school). The education allowance will cover up to 3 children under the age of 19 years who are in education (it's paid as a reimbursement and not as an advance). The exact figures are listed on flydubai's website: Children's educational support (http://flydubai.com/english/work-with-us/pilots.aspx) and are 'per child'. (and do remember that this can put you in debt to the company - see my comments below about being in debt in the UAE).
All the flights are (presently) out & back in the same day / night (though some might see that as a bad thing?!)


flydubai Down-Sides (some of these are not necessarily 'negatives', but they might just be different to what some are used to):


There's a $24,000 USD bond over 3 years even if you are type-rated on a B737NG; and it's $36,000 USD over 3 years if you are not type-rated (this, of course, puts you in debt to the company - see my comments below about being in debt in the UAE)
The safety culture is 'interesting'.
You can forget all about help / support from BALPA or IFALPA and the like, as 'Unions' are illegal in the UAE.
Our rostering has 'had its moments', but it IS getting better!
We do a reasonable number of night flights per month.
It's not a 'commuting' roster.
We do not do any night-stops (at least not just yet).
The 'projected earnings' figure posted in the company website (based on 80 block hours per month) has consistently been underachieved, and this has had a resultant effect upon take-home pay (for some at least).
You're also expected to contribute to the costs of any medical treatment and / or prescriptions. Pre-existing medical conditions (for either yourself or your family members) will not be covered. Any treatments costing more than 500 Dhs ($136 USD) have to be pre-authorised by the Health Insurance Company. Even if pre-authorised, it is not guaranteed that you will be paid back, either in part or in full. Vaccinations for Children are not covered. Pre-natal packages, offered by various hospitals, are not covered. No direct billing between Dentists and the health insurance company means that dental fees must be paid upfront and then reclaimed from the Insurance company (see my previous comments wrt authorisations and / or getting paid back). Renewal of pilot medicals has been costed using the cheapest Clinic possible (maximum 800 Dhs) whereas a Class 1 Medical renewal with a proper AME is likely to be more the 3x that price (for which you have to fund the difference in price yourself). The Worldwide Health Insurance cover does not include treatment in North America.
Very poor protection if you get sick and / or are unable to work for any reason; Basically you're entitled to 2 weeks full pay, then 2 weeks 1/2 pay, then nothing! That said, the company reserves the right to invite you to work in the office, i.e. whilst you convalesce, which would allow you to still get paid (albeit with no block-hour pay, obviously). To help put this into perspective: Scenario 1: go skiing at the Mall of the Emirates indoor ski-slope and break your leg (you'll hopefully be invited to work in the office whilst your leg mends?!) ... OR, scenario 2: driving down the Sheik Zayed Road and some numpty crashes into you, and you're hospitalised / in a comma / unwell for more than a month (and unable, or not invited, to work in the office)... uhm, we're not sure what happens then?!
The loss of license insurance is only 2 years worth of ones 'basic' salary.
F/O to Captain upgrade process is rigorous! (Therein, if you're already a Captain, then apply as a Captain; or, if you're about to become a Captain, might I suggest staying where you are to log some Command hours and then apply as a Captain at a later date?!).
We now have a multiplex of salary scales, and we're not sure where this is headed. Note well that the figures for take-home pay that I've provided (above) are for a Captain on the 'A' scale and therein the figures for new recruits need to be adjusted in-line with the revised figures now listed upon flydubai's website - you can do the math !
The rise in salary that some of us (i.e. not everybody) received last month was the first increase in 2 years, and it was only applied to the 'basic' salary. There's nothing in place that guarantees any annual increment for any of the T&C's.
There is no bonus scheme in place (unlike Emirates).
There is no Provident Fund (unlike Emirates) and / or Pension fund and / or no company contributions available to be paid into your private pension fund. People who resign are only entitled to the statutory UAE End-of-Service gratuity payment, i.e. 21 days basic salary for each year of service or part thereof, once you have completed at least 1 full year.
For those used to getting a 'Duty Pay' allowance (i.e. paid from their scheduled duty report time through until the time of finishing their duty) be aware that in flydubai this element of pilot pay is based only upon Block Hours (i.e. OffBlocks to OnBlocks ).
Education allowance payment is now only valid for schools within the UAE (whereas early joiners into flydubai have it in their contract that this could be used to pay overseas education fees; which is the same deal that Emirates have?!)
We are regularly reminded that "flydubai is not Emirates".
The moving allowance is paltry and getting 'established' in Dubai is both regularly frustrating & expensive!



Nb. Many parts of the following advice could be relevant to anybody looking to move / live / work in the UAE, be that coming to flydubai, or Emirates, or whomever:

Up-sides of living in Dubai:


Life out here is comfortable, and I'm confident that most of my colleagues would probably say the same.
The housing allowance - even on the 'B' scale - will (should?) presently allow you to rent somewhere quite decent to live in. Some even top-up their housing allowance from their salary and are living in very smart accommodation, wherein it's their choice where they live and what they're prepared to spend upon it.
Food costs about the same as in the UK / EU (some things more, some things less) and the supermarkets here make many in the UK / EU look like a corner shops, i.e. in terms of size & choice of goods.
Some of the supermarkets have a pork / bacon section (though it is usually expensive).
You can most certainly get booze (there are liquor stores... which are open even throughout Ramadan... and did someone say "Barracuda"?!) and there are lots of bars / restaurants / clubs where one can imbibe with impunity. You do however need to obtain an Alcoholic Drinks License from the Dubai Police (some simple formalities).
Petrol is cheap (certainly wrt UK / EU / USA prices) though it is still not as cheap as in other countries in the Gulf (e.g. in Saudi petrol is seemingly cheaper than some bottled water).
Cars are cheap (relatively).
There is no tax to pay on your earnings (unless you are a citizen of the USA) and you will be considered / assessed as ex-pat (if your from the UK).
Shopping is excellent, with most of the big name stores & brands having a very visible presence.
Wives seem to like it here (could it be the shopping and affordable maids?!)
For those who like the type of 'wife' that can rented by the hour, e.g. the "Me love you long time!" and / or the "You want happy ending?" type of companionship, the bars & hotels are full of them from every nationality (though, technically, that kind of thing is illegal; this place is full of contradictions) !
High speed Internet (fibre-optic even) is readily available.


An excellent site for factual data on property rental prices / car prices / and just stuff in general is here: Dubizzle.com (http://dubai.dubizzle.com/)

Down-sides of living in Dubai:


Scorchingly hot (& humid) for 4 months of the year.... regular temps of high 40C's during day and often not less than 40C at night (in the summer months you'll be living an almost entirely air-conditioned existence; but the rest of the year the weather is fabulous... "Oh look, a cloud!" ).
Do not upset the 'locals'. Show a lack of 'respect', e.g. flicking the finger when a local has carved YOU up in his / her 4x4 monster truck, or get 'aggressive', and you can be arrested, and are then likely to spend time (days) in a Police cell, potentially followed by time (weeks / months) in a Prison cell, following which you will be deported!
Do try to make sure you live within your means. Being in debt (or, more to the point, failing to pay your debts) is classed as a Criminal Offence for which the aforementioned punishment (i.e. incarceration) also applies (though quite how ones pays-off ones debt when one is incarcerated is not well explained and therein is something that you'd do well to avoid). In the event that you lose your job and / or are dismissed or some such, it's highly likely that you will need to pay-off any outstanding debts, before you'll be allowed to exit the UAE.
The internet is 'filtered' (albeit but readily circumvented via some simple, though illegal here, VPN software).
If you're a chap with a girlfriend and you want her to come here and live with you (and / or vice versa), then you will have to get married, as 'Living-in-sin' is a criminal offence in the UAE and it comes with serious consequences, if you get caught (aside from which, visas for the non-resident cohabitee will become 'awkward' ).
Be foolish enough to get your unmarried girlfriend pregnant, and she then goes to a local clinic to get it confirmed, and guess what?... you've committed and imprisonable criminal offence; certainly so for her!
Driving standards will be anything from infuriating to down right dangerous, lethal even!
Getting your children into the school of your choice is not 'a given'. The schools here operate on a 'selective' basis, as such competition for the more popular schools can be fierce, with many places regularly oversubscribed.
Getting established here can take a of lot paperwork, hassle, and expense!


So there you have it… I hope this answers everybody's PM'd questions to me?

[18L]

Dear Old King Coal

Thank you very much for taking the time to give all that information on Dubai and Flydubai.

Very informative and helpful for people (like me) who are seriously considering joining FZ and heading that way.

Appreciate it:ok:

[pinkflaps]

Hi All,

Can anyone give me an indication as to how long CTC take to screen initial applications?

Thanks in advance!

[111boy]

Thanks Old King Coal, I'm coming out to Dubai for an interview soon and It is really good to have the opinions you posted. Very useful

CTC were very efficient with me, I was processed in about 2 weeks, IE from applying to getting a date in Dubai, maybe they are a little busier now, seems to me interest has picked up perhaps?

Good luck everyone

[Jeffdh17]

I was processed for an interview in two days. Applied on Sunday, had an invitation for interview with CTC on Tuesday. Very quick.

[pinkflaps]

I have heard that you got to pay for the interview?! And you got to pay to GO to the interview?? Well, the person like me who is in downunder to go to UK is not really cheap. I also have an interview with Qatar... do you guys suggest me to ditch flydubai?? Or do you think flydubai is much better than Qatar???? Mmmmm.... I am really wondering what to do....

[dubaigong]

@pinkflaps,

Maybe you are looking for more guidance BUT I have answered your question already on the Qatar thread...
As I told you there , Flydubai is a low cost with only B737 and Qatar is a state airline with medium and long haul fleet.

You can not compare the two , it's two totally different business model and kind of operation and the career opportunities are also very different.

Read the comments on both airlines , compare the conditions , and choose what kind of life style and career you want and then you will have our answer.

Nobody can make the decision for you , it's your life and you only have one so make the right choice...

Good luck

[pinkflaps]

Thanks dubaigong for your advice.

I will go through threads and think again!

[Immigrant]

2Old King Coal

We do not do any night-stops (at least not just yet).

How about flights, that more then 4 hrs?

Istanbul
Yekaterinburg
Samara

and so on......



Thanks.

[spanishfly69]

Immigrant,

"How about flights, that more then 4 hrs?

Istanbul
Yekaterinburg
Samara"

They are all turn around. (out and back) (1 duty period).

[Old King Coal]

Immigrant wrote "How about flights, that more then 4 hrs?"

Just adding to what spanishfly69 has said... we do a reasonable number of flights where each sector is more than 4 hours long and which are out & back within the same duty period / duty day (though quite what the 4 hours you mention has got to do with anything, I don't know?!).

Based upon the least restrictive local time of duty start, doing 2 sectors, for a 2 pilot operation (wherein the nature of flydubai's operation means that we're always acclimatised, for the purposes of FTL's) flydubai's 'Flight Time Limitations' (FTL) scheme allows for a maximum 'Flight Duty Period' (FDP) of 13:15.

Given that the report time (1 hour) and turn-around time (45 minutes) are pretty much fixed and are included within the FDP, in order for a 2 sector day to to fit within the bounds of the maximum FDP, you're looking at a maximum BlocksOff to BlocksOn time, per sector (assuming still air), of 5:45 ... and the B737-800 is more than capable of flying that kind of sector length, with a full load (189 pax), albeit assuming that it's not PLTOM limited.

E.g. You can report for work at 9 AM, fly 2 sectors, and so long as you set the brakes 'On' by 10:15 PM, it's all legit; and should anything go wrong, on the day, the Commander always has the option to extend the FDP via use of 'Discretion' (subject to the usual caveats).

Putting this all into perspective, in 2 years I've had to fill-in just 2 discretion reports (and each of those was only for just for a couple of minutes worth of Discretion).

Does that help to answer your question?

[Immigrant]

though quite what the 4 hours you mention has got to do with anything, I don't know?!).

Of course nothing with Duty...my question was about Flight/Block time limit.
So you guys Don't have 8 hrs Flight/Block time limit for 2 crew members as most of the World???? :sad:

per sector (assuming still air), of 5:45 ..

and you really do 11:30 Flight/Block for the one duty?? :oh:


2Old King Coal
5:45 ... and the B737-800 is more than capable of flying that kind of sector length,

was I asking this... :8

We fly almost 8 (:7:30/7:40) and who cares... ;)

[Old King Coal]

Immigrant you asked the following:

Q) "So you guys Don't have 8 hrs Flight/Block time limit for 2 crew members as most of the World???? "

A) No. The UAE's FTL scheme is based upon the one defined originally by the UK CAA in CAP371 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP371.PDF). <-- click link

Q) "and you really do 11:30 Flight/Block for the one duty??"

A) Yes... and we can also use Commanders 'Discretion' to extend a FDP by 2, or even 3, hours (depending upon the circumstances).

Q) "was I asking this..."

A) No you didn't; but other people might be wondering if, whilst the FTL scheme allows for long FDP's, is the aircraft actually capable of matching up to it?... which it is!


Ps. Hence the edit (though strongly wishing to avoid thread creep! ): Immigrant, what I suspect you are working with right now (in Panama = FAA Reg's? ) is described on page 4 of FAA NPRM 'Flightcrew Member Duty and Rest Requirements (http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/media/FAA_2010_22626.pdf)' but wherein the direction the FAA are looking to take it is described on page 143 (basically towards something more akin to CAP371). The FAA are to issue a final ruling on this by August 1, 2011. See also: FAA Fact Sheet / Pilot Fatigue (http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=11857). Imho, I think you'll find the FAA's NPRM FTL Scheme more kindly in terms of increased rest & fatigue reduction. That said, European & UAE ops, even today, get more rest and do less flight hours than have been proposed in the FAA's NPRM FTL Scheme!

[Immigrant]

Old King Coal, Thanks for the answer ,

In this case I just sincerely wish you have a Very Good Health Insurance around the corner of your retirement.... :(

P.s.

For the now , place where i am working and where i came from .. you are not aloud to exceed 8 hrs block for any 24 hrs of period..
and not only fatigue is the reason.....your health as well. :ok:

Old King Coal....I really appreciate your attention

[FZckntkawrap]

Ok, I will bite.....what does 8 in 24 protect you from health wise???

[Jeffdh17]

It protects you from having Pilot Butt. hahahahahaha......always happy to provide comic relief. :D

[bigdaviet]

So let me get this straight, nobody can go out to Dubai and live with their girlfriend unless they get married?

Oh dear!

[dubaigong]

You can as long as you are not reported to the police by somebody or they don't find out.
Because if caught , for sure you go to jail and then you will be deported...

The other solution is to get married...

But there are plenty of other things you should be aware of before joining Dubai or this will be bad surprise.

There is somewhere on the UAE government website a guide to the foreigners planning to come here , it is really a mandatory reading according to me if you plan to come and work here.

[Old King Coal]

Does this help? See: gulfnews : Living together in the UAE? Think twice (http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/general/living-together-in-the-uae-think-twice-1.819369)

[mirage2000pilot]

Hi all,

I would like to know if anyone has any info concerning the interview in Dubai?
Thank you.

[adverse-bump]

Is any body on the interview on the 20 th this month? If so contact if you fancy a beer before hand!

[Jeffdh17]

Can anyone advise as to what to expect for the final interview phase in Dubai? Technical questions, etc?

Thanks

[hazy85]

hi there can u help me in telling how da selection procedure went and wat they asked u because i have cleared da intial screaning and waiting for the interview i will appreciate ur concern in this

[click]

If it's any help, I heard that they are pretty big on English skills...

[Diz]

Just completed and submitted the application process.Normally how long is the wait to get an invitation ?So far I've only got a reply saying that I'll be screened.What are the chances of getting called for Captain position for a guy with 7800tt all on jet 1500PIC 73classic and 100PIC NG?:ooh:

[dubaigong]

All the chances as they start to look for non rated pilots due to the fact that the source is drying.

Now , it is not because you will be called for the interview that it means that you will get the job... there is no guarantee...

[EKBemused]

Hello! all,
I just had my final interview in Dubai and I felt it was more of a formality and a chance for the FZ recruitment team to meet you in person and ensure CTC has not made an obvious error in the selection process.
There were two people at the interview, one of them a pilot.
There were no technical questions and just three or four example based questions after asking you to detail your career to date and obviously, why do you want to work for FZ.
After the interview you get to meet Mr. Ken Giles and then go for your medical.
Nothing to prepare for, just be yourself.
If it is any help, I am 51 and non type rated, though I have flown the 733 in the past. I was assessed as a DEC and have wide body experience.
For those who are preparing for the assessments with CTC my suggestion is to just go for the Pilapt test well rested and with an open mind. While it is demanding, I believe they are not expecting spectacular results but just a slight improvement as you repeat the tests.
All of us felt we were hopeless at it but managed to get through to the sim.
The sim is straight forward too. A take off with no AP/FD and no auto thrust. A SID followed by some climbing/descending turns followed by a raw data ILS, a go around with the engine failing during it. The FD is available for guidance during the procedure as they pop up when TOGA is selected. This is followed by a normal two engine VOR approach with full automation to a full stop landing.
Good luck and all the best.

[dynamicd]

Hello guys sorry to digress here. I have heard people say that once you are hired by flyflydubai, you would. Never be able. to join Ek,Ey,or Qr in the future even after staying for 3 Years or paying off the bond.Any truth in this?

[Vanheden]

Reason being?

[dubaigong]

@Dynamicd,

First , you should find out which company you want to join according to what you are looking for ( big aircraft long haul operation , medium aircraft low cost operation , looking for quick command or not , lifestyle you are looking for etc... )

Then when you choice is made , do what is needed to get hired by this company and then if you fail to join try your next choice...

There is nothing more different than Flydubai and Emirates so think carefully before deciding.

There is no reason why you should not be able to join QR or EY after Flydubai but it is true that for the time being pilots from Flydubai trying to join Emirates have been told NO because there is an agreement between the 2 companies as they belong to the same government.

It seems that after 3 years in Flydubai the ban will be lifted and you should be able to join Emirates... Wait and see.

But again , if your goal is to join Emirates go right away to Emirates.Why would you want to loose 3 years of seniority in Flydubai ?

[Toilet]

There are 34 pilots from Flydubai on the interview list at Etihad as of today. And EQ has started calling pilots from Flydubai personally to hear if they are willing to leave. So people are leaving, before the 3 year band, if you leave after 2 years, your UAE legal salary bonus will cover the most of the last 1/3 of the bond that is left. ( if you where type rated )

[dubaigong]

@Toilet,

Are sure about your information ?
How do you know exactly the number of Flydubai's pilot who have applied to Etihad ?
34 would mean around one pilot out of five... sounds a lot BUT we will soon see if you are right.

[roden737]

Well.... I'm not actually on hold but my status is 'awaiting decision' for more then 6 weeks now and I meet all the requirements and then some....

[Alaska737]

As hiring gets tighter and non-typed DECs come in they will have no choice but to start seat locking senior FOs.....sadly it will back fire on them as it would be more beneficial for those FOs to leave rather than commit for extra years on lower pay and worse benefits. No upgrade after 1 year is just a waste.

I heard a couple of captains were called by EK but this is a breach of the poaching agreement, and I am sure that EK would be very diplomatic in this regard. To answer your questions if you solicit them is fine, I am sure they and Ethiad would be highly interested to take any FD pilot, though.

For the newbies wanting to join. As a whole the company is better than the likes of the European carrier Riyanair?

[SKYWRITER1]

Eh? Seat lock FO's???????? Surely the job market is tighter for Captains? Why "seat lock" Fo's when you can farm the constant supply of those desperate for a job, whether they be experienced disillusioned guys from a european loco or low houred cadets to supply EK. Experienced captains have, and always will be harder to attract. If they start denying guys an upgrade, people will vote with their feet.

[BurDubaiBob]

Alaska737 isn't far wrong but, imho, many F/O's will remain bound to the RHS for a slightly different reason. Consider the following assumptions:
That the initial order for 54 aircraft is fulfilled.
One aircraft delivery per month.
No additional aircraft orders are in the pipeline.
Ratio of 7 Capts and 7 F/O's per aircraft (around-the-clock flying ups the requirement for crew) .
Continue to recruit Direct Entry Captains.
None of the Captain's leave the company.
Previous high levels of experience requirement for F/O recruits is not changed.
F/O upgrade requirements are not changed.
If an upgrade slot is available, that all the F/O's will upgrade, and will do so based upon their seniority number.
That the ratio of F/O upgrades is 3 - 4 per each new aircraft delivered (with that being balanced by recruitment of 4 - 3 DEC's).
Do not get Emirate' cadet pilots in place of F/O's.

With this present scenario, by the time the 54th aircraft is delivered there should be:

378 Captains, made up of 227 DEC's and 151 upgrade F/O's.
529 F/O's will have been hired in total (of which 151 will have upgraded to Captain) still leaving 378 F/O's occupying the RHS (which matches the number of Captains).

The projected date for 151st F/O being recruited will be when 22nd aircraft is delivered (in 3 months from now) !


And what if flydubai immediately stopped all DEC recruitment and instead relied entirely on upgrading F/O's to fill the LHS?

Using this alternative scenario, by the time the 54th aircraft is delivered there should be:

378 Captains, made up of 115 DEC's and 263 upgrade F/O's.
641 F/O's will have been hired in total (of which 263 will have upgraded to Captain) still leaving 378 F/O's occupying the RHS (which matches the number of Captains).
The projected date for 263rd F/O having been recruited will be achieved when 27th aircraft is delivered (approximately 8 months from now).


So depending upon which scenario you go for, and if nothing changes with the underlying assumptions:

If DEC recruitment continues: F/O's hoping to upgrade prior to the delivery of the 54th aircraft need to join within the next 3 months.
If DEC recruitment ceases: F/O's hoping to upgrade prior to the delivery of the 54th aircraft need to join within the next 8 months. (though there is presently little or no sign of DEC recruitment being suspended)

The bottom line is that there will come a point, sooner or later, when the present rate of F/O command upgrades will cease.
After that point, the only hope for any of the 378 F/O's stuck in the RHS to upgrade will be if either more aircraft are ordered, or if there's a departure by some of the 378 Captains, or if an awful lot of F/O's - ahead of them in the seniority list - fail their upgrade ?!

You've just got to 'do the math', and do remember that most of the F/O's recruited thus far are already high-hour / high-experience, so there is no reason why most of them should not achieve an upgrade in advance of folk who join after the aircraft delivery vs. upgrade watershed!

[SKYWRITER1]

Bob,

your figures make perfect sense, I don't dispute them, but I'm sure many things will change before all the aircraft do arrive. This only then puts FZ in a similar position to most other airlines. I suppose its how you look at the job you have or are considering applying for. If you are joining FZ to get that quick upgrade, then yes, you have to consider the maths just the same as you would when you join any other airline. Fast upgrades can't be sustained forever.

Maybe I was wrong, but I considered the earlier comments to be an implication that FO's already at FZ were virtually already in dead mens shoes. Something I could't disagree with more.

SW

[tothepoint]

Chaps,

you are not allowing for the fact that approx 50% of the first 150 pilots are furloughed/un-paid leave.

slight flaws in the maths, when the training bond expires and they decide to call it a day.

[dubaigong]

Maybe the math is not correct , but for having a chat about it with some of the guys concerned ( and most of them are or were F/Os ) between going back to their previous company on the right seat for years and years with a lower pay and staying here on the left or with the prospective to be on the left soon... most of them told me that they were not in a hurry to go back home...
Again , we will see only time will tell.

[kittymeow]

My App is ''on hold'' as well.

[EdgardoG]

can anybody give more info about math test.

[Alaska737]

It doesn't take much to "delay" upgrades without that word "seat lock", but the truth is about to hit that any outside DEC is now going to come from a non-NG or non-737 type!!!! So you will need a completely new formula to work out the upgrade for existing FOs! Who do you think will be the real insight into KTM or KBL or Russia in the winter? I would stab a guess at 2years right now and when you factor in the quiv 3000hrs or max 5yrs at EK then it holds no comparison! The FOs will leave much quicker than the capts! It's actually more beneficial to fly capt with capt than lose the knowledge of good guys! Let's see! We have reached the 2yr point and will start to see people migrate as they start interviews with other ME carriers now that their poaching period has expired!!!!

[Alaska737]

They are very simple college questions. Things like whether expressions are polynomials or not, if not re-write in standard form. Then simplify with rational exponents (mostly without using negatives so it makes like more interesting).

If you want to pass with the idiot sticker then study "ace the pilot technical interview"

[111boy]

I did the assessment, in CTC, there are NO maths questions. It is a funny sort of test but no maths questions. But then its a funny sort of airline. The day I did at CTC rejected some two thirds of our course. In my humble opinion some good, experienced guys. The Dubai interview is a bit of a joke, they get you out there for a 40 minute interview, "take me through your background" and "tell me about a time when someone didn't agree with you"!? and a medical. In all about an hours worth, packed into a day, add travel time, it takes a while.

[Alaska737]

Yes I was joking about the maths! Bit of a silly question to even ask!!!!

[hazy85]

hi 111boy i just cleared the ctc test .Can you tell me more about the questions which were asked to you in the final interview in dubai and what did they say after that .

[Jeffdh17]

They said....You are hired!!!!!! hahaha...just a repeat of the CTC H.R. interview. Nothing new. Good luck my friend.......

[111boy]

Yeah same questions, but they don't hire everyone. as I said, bit strange. Have a look at the other thread on "terms and conditions" about FlyDubai perhaps?

[hazy85]

Thanks for your reply guys.111boy i cant find the terms and conditions thread and you said they dont hire every body is that true

[dubaigong]

Hazy 85,

Don't believe all you read here on that website.
People do get hired , if not , we would not be able to keep our 18 aircraft flying days and nights with more coming in the following months.
But it is natural that , when people went through the recruitment process and are not hired , they get sometime upset and make comments that are not really true...
But what is true is that the number of people getting hired compared to the number of people going through the selection is maybe less than in other low cost airlines...

[hazy85]

Thanks dubAigong any ways my final interview is next week i am keeping my fingers crossed let see what comes up

[EdgardoG]

Congrats hazy85
take note of everything to help me in the future..
keep walking ... hehe

[hazy85]

can any one tell me what is the actual take home salary for FO,s in FZ and how many hours do they fly in a month

[dubaigong]

If you go on their website you will have all the information about the salary for F/O and Captain... flydubai (http://www.flydubai.com)
Section " work with us "

[hazy85]

On their website it just gives an averagd salary and hours jus wanted to the actual facts and figures

[ex-XL]

flydubai's website quotes 'headline' figures that are based upon someone flying 80 block hours per month and are figures designed to attract the gullible.

The reality is that many F/O's are doing only 50 - 60 block hours per month and so the monthly figure, for F/O's, quoted on flydubai's website should be reduced by 2,000 Dhs - 3,000 Dhs.

Do the math! :E

[dubaigong]

I am sorry , but this is not quite correct.

I have been talking with other F/Os and they told me they were flying around 75-80 hours a month , some of them even reaching more than 95 hours.

What you should look at is the total hours flown in 12 months and I can tell you that most of us are around the 870+ hours...

The problem is that the rostering is not consistent and you will be flying 60 hours one month and the next one you may be flying 95 hours

[tothepoint]

dubaigong,

possibly you have been flying with f/o's needing to fly those hours to make up the income they thought they were going to receive. Possibly not making as much as they thought and bitten off more than they can chew. (Dubai isn't cheap).

or

picking up extra work to gain hours for the command requirements.
I would assume that the f/o's doing 80+ hours per months on a roster issued by crewing would be very rare.

[Son of the soil]

I am a turboprob FO and I have applied to join flydubai.

Could someone tell me if it is possible to do a flydubai 'Assessment Preparation Course' for with CTC, so that actual assessment day is easier to pass?

Can somebody post details of this 'Assessment Preparation Course' or can PM details of same to me please?

[dubaigong]

Something is amazing....

Are we talking about the same company ?

Some posters say that in Flydubai pilots are leaving and the company is struggling to find pilots to man their aircraft...
And others say that copilots are not flying more than 50 to 60 hours per months...

Right , somebody must be wrong because it is not possible to have at the same time the majority of the pilots not flying more than 50 , 60 hours and not having enough pilots to man the fleet !!!!

[tothepoint]

dubaigong,

its not amazing at all...

some people pick up extra work and fly the hours, other give away work and fly less hours so its varies alot as everyone has different motives.

as for not enough pilots - well that is dependent on the routes that FZ gain access to. I would say they are struggling to find routes for the impending a/c arriving rather than struggling to find pilots.

but then again in 6 months time the ball could be bouncing in a different court and FZ may have the routes not the pilots - enjoy the merri-go-round of balancing enough pilots with enough routes for the fleet.

[Flat Cap]

FO figures for me work out at approx. (these are my own personal numbers so there might be some variation, over the last 12 months)
60 hrs a month (which is just fine for me)

Take home each month is about 35-36000 Dh

3 bed villa 10400/month
phone/tv 400/mo
DEWA 800/mo (i have a irrigated garden).

I find it fairly comfortable to support a family of 3 and save some cash, and I'm still paying a UK mortgage too.

Hope it helps
F-C

[dubaigong]

You are totally wrong , I am not taking criticism against the company personally and if you were reading all my posts you would see that I am very critical about the company when I feel it is necessary ( look at the Kandahar post ) and also when it comes to training , safety issues and rostering for example...
But it is true , I am not talking with ALL the pilots here but the group I know are flying more than the numbers you were giving so I just wanted to balance your numbers which even if they are correct are not reflecting the numbers for all the pilots as far as I can see.
We all know that the rostering is not the best and that's perhaps where the difference comes from BUT for sure it is not correct to say that all F/Os are flying 60 hours per month even if it is your situation , that's all I am saying , nothing more.
And there there is even a post from Flat Cap who seems to be happy with his situation even if he is also flying around 60 hours a month.

[flying for fun]

The reason that many pilots are doing 60-70 hours per month is that FDB operates to the GCAA FTL scheme, which is in effect copied from the UK FTL scheme.

This only allows 3 night flights in a row. As FDB have flights right through the night, you can expect to do a few days starting at one time have 1 or 2 days off & then be reporting at a completely different time.

The general comments in the FTL about circadian rhythms are ignored - expect to hear "well, it's legal"!!!!

[Son of the soil]

Please forgive if my English is not so good.

I turboprob FO and I apply to join flydubai.

Someone tells me CTC do 'Pre-assessment Preparation Course' to make flydubai assessment easier to pass?

Anybody here have any details of this 'Pre-assessment' course? How long does course last and what is it cost?

[Simplyfly.aero]

Son of the soil.....yes they do a jet transition course but sadly it is very expensive. You will get the training from FD anyway. I suggest you simply study for the typical questions....rvsm, non-rvsm, RNP, holding speeds, approach requirements, alternates, O2 requirements, mora, moca, approach ban. Study the systems of your current aircraft, know your current memory items especially windshear escape.

[ex-XL]

A well-connected source, inside Etihad, informs me that 47 pilots from flydubai (which presently represents 20% of flydubai's total number of pilots) have applied to join Etihad... and that Etihad are interviewing them just as fast as they can!

As Emirates Airlines and flydubai have implemented a 'no poaching' agreement, the alternative local airline-of-choice has to be Etihad, given that there is no such 'no-poaching' agreement in place with them, and nor is there ever likely to be!

If flydubai is such a fabulous place to work, you might ask yourself why such a significant number of its pilots are actively looking to leave, even if that means paying-off their outstanding 'bond' to do so, and where lies the blame for this impending 'exodus' ?!

[dubaigong]

We will see how many of them will leave then... :ok::ok:

[Guided accordingly]

I have been at FZ for almost 2 years and have seen many changes. Many for the better, but some definately for the worse.

For me many of the usual gripes (see above) apply. Yes, the rostering has improved, but it fails miserably to account for sleep patterens and inefficient. The medical cover has improved in some areas, but in most it fails to deliver what most westerners would regard as decent normal cover. I could go on.

This latest move is unacceptable. I joined a low cost airline, and did not expect to be flying charters to war torn country that hits the headlines every few days.

From the employees perspective it has been badly mismanaged and poorly handled. We now have guys discovering that their life and mortgage insurance is invalidated whilst flying in Afghanistan. The company insurance is 3 times basic salary. Should the worse happen It would barley cover repatriation costs, let alone anything else.

The company believes that Afghanistan is not war zone and poses little more risk than a scheduled flight to Bahrain. How can this be in light of a security brief that contains information on how to deal with rocket attacks, and foreign commonwealth office advice that Kandahar is very dangerous and travel is not advised.

Morale has taken a hit since this announcement many will eventually vote with their feet.

Dubaigong, close the door on the way out as you'll be the only guy left...
and by the way the number of applicants to Etihad has just risen to 48 !

[tothepoint]

Well along with toilet you guys are flush with information,

I heard that 47 were heading up to SJH for interviews with cargo operation with a new fleet of IL-76's.

[Old King Coal]

Guided accordingly (great handle btw! )

Albeit a small and / or arbitrary point, though for the purposes of being factually correct (and assuming your Contract of Employment is basically the same as mine?), I'm not sure that what you've said is correct, i.e. that 'The company insurance is 3 times basic salary'... as my contract states that it's less than that, i.e. being just 2 years (24 months) worth of basic salary:

PERSONAL ACCIDENT & LIFE INSURANCE (Employee only)
The Company will insure you under the Personal Accident and Life Insurance Schemes and will pay the premium on your behalf. The sum insured is 24 months basic salary for Life Insurance and 24 months basic salary for Accident Insurance.

LOSS OF LICENCE INSURANCE
The company will provide you with a Loss of License Insurance for up to 24 months of basic salary until the age of 62 years, at which point this reduces to 12 months until the age of 63 at which point this ceases.

I must say that the rumoured / suggested number of applications to Etihad (as reported by ex-XL) makes for very interesting reading, if only because if what he / she says is true, then (based upon empirical rates of successful applicants vs failures), to replace 48 pilots, flydubai / CTC would have to assess more than 4 or 5 or 6 times that many (depending upon how close to the bottom of the barrel they're now scraping for crews?!)... to say nothing of the ongoing recruitment required just to keep up with filling the front seats of an ever expanding fleet!

And / or putting it another way; If flydubai struggles to replace the suggested 'exodus' (i.e. of those who might be take-on by Etihad), those departees (to Etihad alone) might be translated into 4 flydubai aircraft being grounded due to a lack of FlightCrew!

To use a Biblical metaphore (as it somehow seems so apt; 'Exodus (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exodus)' indeed! ) is it veritably a case that "As ye sow, so shall ye reap"?!

Being 'Low Cost' is not meant to be translated into an excuse to treat your crews & staff like **** (be it "Legal" or otherwise), and in fact it should be just the opposite ! (just look at 'Southwest's organisational culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines#Organizational_culture)' to see the point and / or read 'Nuts! (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Nuts/Jackie-Freiberg/e/9780767901840)' to really 'get it' ! )

[StuckinFZ]

Enough is enough with the FZ management. They have gone from bad to completely ridiculous and plainly dangerous.

This is an exert from a Euronews article Kandahar ‘destabilised’ after Karzai brother’s murder | euronews, world news (http://www.euronews.net/2011/07/13/kandahar-detabilised-after-karzai-s-brother-murder/)

Ahmad Wali Karzai was shot by a trusted member of his security detail at his home in Kandahar City earlier in the day.

His murder, which has been claimed by the Taliban, leaves the already volatile south without a leader; Ahmad Wali Karzai was considered a strong force for stability.

Two explosions were heard in the city soon after the funeral.

Analyst Haroon Mir said: “After Ahmad Wali Karzai we all know that no-one else will be able to fill the vacuum and chaos might return back in Kandahar (sic) and this is a tremendous achievement for the Taliban.”

The assassin Sardar Mohammad was immediately gunned down by other bodyguards. He had known Karzai for ten years.

THIS is an exert from the last email from our Chief Pilot that promised to retire a month ago, still here unfortunately......

"Airman" and "his lackey" reported the assassination of President Karzi’s half-brother but their sources were reporting no additional security concerns as a result. They were both satisfied with the security so far.


It is AMAZING how they manage to dig out anonymous "SOURCES" that say it is ALL OK!!!!! Like the claimed "PILOTS" that have been flying there and say it is ALL OK!!!!! Let those pilots keep flying there. I am NOT!!!!!

How can they DIG into this GOLDEN ORE of Charter without even offering their crew a part of the cake?!!! The joke of a pay-rise was more mocking than rewarding........ Etihad will not have recruitment trouble as long as FZ exist...... Just wondering how many of the latest FZ recruits will pass the screening down there though........ Talking to some of my colleagues tell me that they are not exactly the "cream of the aviation crop".........

[flying for fun]

I'd love to go into a USAF Base; they probably have Root Beer and Corned Beef Hash.

[StuckinFZ]

In the good old days the pilots used to stick together. That is why pay was as a doctor, and respect was big. Now the industry is full of leeches sucking blood from their colleagues. Stepping over dead bodies to get command or other positions. Full of brown noses willing to do anything it takes to please because they think this is the way to make a career.

Just the thought of THREE pilots volunteer to write letters to management telling them how "GREAT" it was to fly to Kandahar in their old airline makes me sick to my stomach. Either this being "fake" letters made by JV and DR or genuine letters from "colleagues" makes equal reason for concern....... If their old jobs were so great, what the heck are they doing in FZ........

Many of us have children, wife and family members that constantly ask if this is safe. Putting them through this is not good, and God forbid some Taliban might have a good day at "work" and do us in...... They are left with 24 months of salary.... Barely enough to ship my furniture home........

[StuckinFZ]

GREAT! Can I have your Crew Number then so I can swap if a KDH appear on my schedule.........

[flymetodubai]

....a quick look at the websites of airlines in the region

flydubai > Erbil, Sulaimaniyah, Kandahar, Kabul
Etihad > Baghdad & Erbil
Air Arabia > Kabul, Najaf
Emirates > Basra, Baghdad, Sanaa, Peshawar
Gulf Air > Erbil, Baghdad, Basra, Najaf, Peshawar, Aden, Sanaa
Qatar Airways > Sanaa, Peshawar

Welcome to the Middle East Boys...

[BurDubaiBob]

Wasn't it Groucho Marx who commented that "Military intelligence is contradiction in terms" ?!

Well, in spite of all their supposed 'intelligence', they certainly failed to spot or prevent the the Afghan President's brother having his brains blown out only two days ago, just as they also failed to spot or prevent the suicide attack this afternoon at his memorial service in a Kandahar mosque... which all goes to reinforce the our views on the 'intelligence' of 'black ops' !! :mad:

Btw, here's this afternoons METAR from Kandahar:

270/15 9999 SCT MORTARS, TEMPO 1912 ILR

(new METAR code 'ILR' = 'Intermittent Light Rockets' )

[Soap Box Cowboy]

Anyone know when they are doing the next round of recruiting?

[sandman2009]

Dear colleagues. It’s time to bring some reality to this conversation. We from FZ work for an Arabic Company, in the Middle East. It’s owned by Arabs. And most managed by Indians, in the daily operations. So tell me what did you expect when you joined it? The same conditions that you had in Europe or US? Come on! If someone decides to go to Kandahar or Kabul, do you think this is a call from David Ray, James Vial or even Ken Guile? Of course not...It comes from upstairs...way upstairs.
The only thing our bosses can do is try to minimize the impact on the pilot and cabin crew group,but not because they are nice or because they care about us.Just to avoid more headaches to them, that’s all.
And for those that are saying that won’t go to Kandahar or Kabul or Erbil, what about your colleague who is going to be called in your place? Do you think this is fair? And in case your insurance company does not cover the places we fly to, sorry my friend, it’s time to change the insurance company or your job.

[StuckinFZ]

All for changing job my friend. But we happen to have a bond. All i said was that the guys should be compensaten by mean of more flight pay, and there would be enough bend over backwards leeches to cover the route!

I joined fz because of american management in leading flight ops positions hoping they would be good to work with! The famous Southwest of the Middle East is looking more and more like the aviation joke of the millenium!

Our dear CP have seem fit to start personal vendettas against crew because of trivial stuff and there is no Arabic "reason" for this. It is BAD management. Not "arabic" management.

[sandman2009]

Sorry but that’s the reality we’re living, didn’t say I agree with it. And sincerely I don’t think that’s much we can do to change it... people will come, people will go, and life goes on...
But I completely agree with stuckinFZ :D about payment increase. But this time for everyone and not only for part of the group.

[StuckinFZ]

Starving children in africa, pollution killing the planet etc etc. These things are happening. Not comparable with fz management but one ting in common. Giving up and say, this is life deal with it it, is the most dangerous thing to do. If we bend over and accept anything thing will be bad. For sure we can not directly impact the crap. As long as the said leeches of the industry let it happen. To plead ignorance is as bad though.

[dubaigong]

Sandman,

I don't fully agree with your statement "I don't think that's much we can do to change it"
There is always something we can do about it , it is more do we really want to do something ?
Tell me what will or can they do if we ALL say we are not going to Kandahar ?
Fire everybody ?
They will have to start talking with us and find a solution BUT of course we need to ALL agree on what we want and that's where the problem start.
Some pilots does not see the problem to go there and even said to the chief pilot that they have done it before and it was not a problem.
So I don't find it unfair to let them go and stay home if I have a problem going there because I find it totally unsafe...
When the security is as good as they can not avoid the president's brother to be killed another to blow himself during the funeral , how can I trust the company saying to me that it is safe to fly there ?
Just to remind you also that when we joined we have been told that our main market would be India and the subcontinent BUT never say anything about Kabul , Kandahar etc...

[StuckinFZ]

dubaigoing is totally on the money. I do not see why the company can not even have the decency to ASK us, or communicate this in a more respectful way.

I have never felt less respected by any person or company than now with flydubai. Just because you pay someone a salary mean you have the right to their life.......

Constant roster changes etc. is in a bit the same problem. When you on STBY finishing at 3PM you suddenly find yourself with a nightflight signing in at 7 pm!!!!!! So how can you plan a life?

How can you even say that the problem is with the insurance companies?????? Some of these companies are world leading. And the Premium to cover us in Kandahar is HUGE!!!! Same as getting coverage for a climb to mount everest etc......!!! Who is paying for the added COST of the insurance then?

And that JOKE of a medical insurance will not even cover me if I go back home to the USA.........

[skysod]

Purely on the life insurance aspect, called my company (Legal & General) today and was amazed to be informed that I am covered in Khandaha at no extra charge!! Not sure if this applies only to existing policies though!

[jonbj]

hi dear colleagues,
actually iam fo in a leading airline in north africa but unfortunatly with no career perspective. I have almost 5000h on B737. I have been invited for an interview end of august in dubai. i will really appreciate if someone could give me some infos about the process in dxb because i dont know what to expect there. do you have an idea of how long is to be upgraded?
thank you very much. Fly safe.

[jonbj]

thanks for the reply! i ve read all the posts but no information about the process in dubai (is it different of ctc process?) If you have some infos please PM. My choice is already done if i am successful at FD. I am fed up of being considerated as "foreigner" by local captain and flying more almost 100h/month without career perspective.
Fly safe

[StuckinFZ]

Just because you are tired of you current job dont mean you have to come to fz. There are plenty of options. Ey, ek, qr. Etc etc. Unless you failed all of those airline screenings. As they do it properly. The only reason to join fz should be that it it the last job on earth. Look up pprune tread about kandahar

[Diz]

Hi All,
Just got an email from FZ .They want me to choose UK or DXB for the assessment for Aug.
But after hearing about all the excitement and perills that Fz crew have to go through I'm a bit unsure about having a career over there.Think I'll just stay where I am. Eventhough the pay I earn now is half of what FZ pay...not willing to fly to a danger zone .
And another thing is all the expenses for going to DXB is on our own..No thanks.

All the best.

[dubaigong]

Dear Diz,

I would not be too disappointed if I was you about the difference in salary...
You say that you get around half of what FZ is offering , are you sure ?
The basic for a captain per month is around 4600 Euros , the housing and transport allowances around 3000 Euros and the sector pay is roughly 28 Euros/Hrs.
You will need at least 2/3 of you allowances if you want to live in a European standard house or apartment and don't forget that if you need to go to the doctor or loose your medical etc... the coverage here is a lot less than what we are used to in Europe.
So I don't really think that you would be able to get twice your European salary after all is paid...
Lot of guys realize now that they have made a mistake and are looking to move to another company.

[StuckinFZ]

Fact is that it is getting more expensieve in Dubai and FZ is not ready to give us a proper pay rise. On A Scale we are doing ok, I admit, but the people on B-Scale is getting shafted. As for the rest of poor management and Kandahar flights etc....... Night and Day alternating rosters, that could be fixed for free.... But the airline is not willing to do anything about that either......

[Spit The Dummie]

It's been reported that a very senior member of flydubai 'Cabin Crew / In Flight Service Management' has been putting-it-about (in the purely 'oral' sense) that the impending exodus of flydubai pilots, towards Etihad in particular, could easily be thwarted through nothing more than a phone call from GAG to his opposite number down the road in Etihad,... much the same as the similar arrangement also put in place between Emirates and flydubai, wrt stymying the the movement of pilots between the airlines.

One doubts however that Abu Dhabi's airline would actually give a ****! Indeed they might actually relish the chance to procure a lot of very experienced & capable pilots, from one of their Dubai competitors and, as such, they are probably rubbing their hands with glee, remembering all the aircraft that Etihad have on order, plus their own present chronic shortage of pilots!

And just imagine the mayhem (wrt grounded aircraft & loss of face for 'Dubai' ) that Etihad / Abu Dhabi could cause if they 'coordinated' the resignations of those they've recruited from within flydubai?!

Alas, with an endemically poor management skills base, plus a correspondingly even worse attitude (certainly so within certain tiers of management) it's probably too late that the penny is finally dropping, wrt the plight that they have 'managed' to produce around themselves within flydubai. But, with their typical knee-jerk reaction (and 'jerk' is indeed the word to describe them!), their response is seemingly to resort to yet more 'spoiling' & 'bully-boy' tactics, in a no doubt desperate attempt to stop an impending pilot exodus?!

But here's a thought. Rather than trying to implement yet another ban on the movement of staff between various UAE airlines, maybe GAG should simply sack some of the muppets in Upper-Middle Management, Safety, Rostering & HR, who've induced this crisis?!

[Guided accordingly]

Wiz ( and wannabes)

Please read all of above and take note !

None of the pilots here are as thrilled about the recent exciting developments, (kandahr et al), as my friend dubaigong would have you believe. Many are re considering their longer term futures with flydubai. By that I mean they fall into a few catagories ; 1. Activley looking for other jobs, 2. Returning to old jobs ( ie furloughed ), 3. playing the waiting game and summing up leaving vs. Bonds, End of service benefit, vs Tennancy contacts, etc etc
.
There are of course many sitting on the fence, they will be the guys left in 6 to 12 months. Either way, be assured that many have changed their opinions recently and no longer view this as long term. Retention will be the bigger issue.

The fz business plan was based on flights to india and cheap expendable crew that would leave within 3 years due unsustainable schedules and low cost airline lifestyle. However the Indian govt blocked Indian flights so Fz cleverly found other destinations to make up the shortfall. Nothing wrong with this, in fact all credit to the commercial dept, except the crew were recruited to join a low cost airline and not military charter operator flying into war zones! The security dept and management have struggled to convince Pilots, Cabin Crew and in some cases themselves (CP meeting anyone?). The security brief is vague, incomplete ( almost funny !) and differs from the daily updates that can easily be found online. Confidence lost as many doubts, questions and fears go simply unanswered. The company advice is to check your insurance policy. It maybe the biggest aviation cock up ever !

On another note, interesting that EK recruitment was in the office today…

mmmmm ?

[Diz]

Dear dubaigong,
I'm not from Eu..and where I'm from I get less than 4500euros/month all in after tax..It's a big increase to get 5100AED..that's why I'm still considering..

What about this exodus to EY etc?do they hire non rated DECs?I've been told at one of their roadshow,EY at the moment are hiring Tri/e B777 only..for NG we don't have much choice.

So now I'll just wait and see.

[GAITH AL GAITH]

The other day there was a guy who was round like a football was seen in Gaiths office trying to blow him because he badly wanted the job so all you guys there be aware of him and one important thing is that his interview was conducted after office hours and loud bangs were heard .

[StuckinFZ]

This keeps getting better and better. Talk about crapping up something with real potential. COO that is as ball-less as the eunuchs in the old egypt. A CP that is like a hand puppy and a chief of security that is clueless, add to this a dyslectic chief of training. What a Team!!!!!!
:D

Well. Let the second mayhem begin when these captains that can not fly properly in cavok is starting to land in blowing sand with that HUD. :{

[dubaigong]

Dear StuckinFZ,

I don't know what your position is at FZ but for sure you have a strong opinion about the capacity of some of us.
I hope for you that other pilots at FZ don't have the same opinion about you and your performance.
I don't know what gives you the right to make such statement about other captains who , according to you , are not able to fly in cavok conditions and also to be very rude about most of the management.
We may disagree with them and be very disappointed BUT this doesn't give us the right to insult them.
You should moderate your comments on a public site and if you really have the proof of what you are saying then you should report it as soon as possible to the company and these pilots should be re-trained.
The comment you made is also very serious as it means that not only the pilots concerned are targeted BUT also the recruitment team and process , the training team including CAE and CTC as these pilots should have been stopped or given more training IF YOU ARE RIGHT of course.
Now , my experience here , shows that some people frustrated not to be where they would like to be are really prompt to criticized others but they should look first at their own performance.

[temporarily unsure]

In the last couple of days, I have had a phone call from "China", and another from "India" on my UAE mobile.

Both were unsolicited, and in both cases the agent claimed that my details had been passed on by a colleague.

Just wondering if anyone else has found that "it's good to talk"?

[Toilet]

Grow a pair, if you don't like it in FD, you can leave, pay the bond and go fly in lala land, where the rainbow ends.
If you wallue you live so much, and you think you are going to be shot down in Kandahar, then the remaining 20.000 us you owe is not a big deal. Or perhaps it is, so you deside to stay, but then fly the roster and stut the f... up, take it like a man and do your job. I am so tired of listening to this BS.
Life is a gamble, you did your bet on red, and the roulette came out black. Thats life, so if you are so unhappy with FD, please leave, get a repayment plan with the company, and take the next EK out of here.

[dubaigong]

Toilet,

Fz claim to be a "family" airline but with people like you and this kind of comments I doubt it will never be.
You should respect what other people think even if you don't agree with them.
With the kind of comment you are making about "life is a gamble" I hope you are not yet a captain and hope that the passengers flying with you will never discover what kind of thoughts you have.
General public have a different image of what a pilot should be , they expect them to be calm , taking decision base on facts and surely not expect them to be gamblers...
Don't forget we are supposed to be a civilian low cost airline and based on that you should understand that people with family may be concerned about these flights.
Like said above they have big insurance issues and sometimes problems with their family being scared...
Not every pilot here have a military background and are looking for an adrenalin shot each time they fly...
If it is what you are looking for , then feel free to help you fellow pilots by volunteering to fly to Kandahar and swap with them.

[skysod]

This is developing into an interesting thread, but hey guys can we keep it civil and leave the personal insults out of it please!
As previously posted, everyone is entitled to their opinion without being subjected to personal attacks and insults.

Just for the record, in spite of all the aformentioned on here and the fact that I agree with some of it, I'm still very happy at FZ and knowing what I know now would still have come here and that goes for my wife too! Then again, I do have good life insurance that is valid ANYWHERE! (Feel free to point out the error of my ways if that's your opinion, but please no personal attacks!!)
Skysod.

[masalama]

any airline that asks a rated captain to sign a bond for the type he/she has tons of experience on has to be viewed with caution and concern. Best to avoid the said company like a CB or be prepared for a surprising ride....
:=
masalama.

[Toilet]

A Toilet is used to flush all the crap away. And there is a lot of it here.

Keep up the good work guys, grow a pair or stand up and shout out, the problem is that you don´t have the balls to do so, you sit and moan on pprune and on the flightdeck.
Or you take the low road and report sick, so others have to take your flights
to Kandahar.

The company has reportet that they will pay the insurance in case its needed.

You fly in the middle east, wake up, this is how its done here, and sorry to say it but if you can´t handle it, leave.

[The Prophet of Truth]

Dear Toilet,

Because of people like you that we have 4 different pay scales for Captains and 3 for FO's.............It is not because we are in the M.E. that we can be treated like a toilet stuff( I guess you like it), anyway.........keep behaving as an Alice in the wonderland and let's see how you career will end up......I hope in the right seat.....for the sake of you crew and pax (no place for gamblers here!!!).

Enjoy you Kandahar flights!

[dubaigong]

Toilet,

All right you are the only one to have balls then show them , where were you during the chief pilot meetings ? I didn't hear anybody reacting except one guy that I know very well and it is was not you...
What else have you done to show to the company that you have some balls and don't agree with what they are doing ?
What do you suggest ?
On top of that , until now NOBODY have called sick for the Kandahar flights as far as I am aware.

[Toilet]

Yep, but I am a happy idiot. On the other hand that makes you a whining little scottish mama´s boy .
Good luck in your search, I really wish you the best, but I am sure you will not be happy before you go back to the UK and the safe haven of your XL union...

[Guided accordingly]

.... Go Flush yourself ! ....... :E

[Amdram]

Toilet,

What are they usually full of. Crap mostly, which is funny considering that's remarkably similar to what you post.

You are to be congratulated in that I know of no other pruner whos pseudonym reflects so accurately as to what they post.

Well done Sir!

[Toilet]

Ok, but I am right, you have no balls, mrs. M


For the rest of the guys..
We all ready established the Idiot and toilet part, you must be able to do better with the insults. Come on guys, you are supposed to be cool calm and collected...

[dubaigong]

All right guys , I think we all agree about our "friend" Toilet... :ok:

So the best to do would be just not to react anymore to his comment as he is really too smart for us. :)

[Alaska737]

Diversion airfields for Kabul should be carefully reviewed prior to departure from base due to the impact on fuel, time and potential payload. The only approved alternates for flydubai are Peshawar, Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi. Bagram will accept an aircraft during a full emergency but numerous restrictions apply. Kandahar is not to be planned for security reasons.


Can anyone shed any light on this? Thanks

[Dustwing]

Afghanistan (http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1056.html)

any other ideas?

D:sad:

[dubaigong]

One of the reason why Kandahar can not be used as an altenate for Kabul is because to be accepted in Kandahar you need a unique ISF number and transponder code that gives you the right to land there and these numbers are valid for only 30 minutes.

These numbers must be requested in advance and , I guess this takes some time which will render the access to Kandahar almost impossible in case of diversion.

On top of that , if I need to divert going to Kabul I would prefer to go anywhere else than Kandahar...

[EladElap]

What about using Mazar-I-Sharif, OAMS as the alternate? That's what we use out here. VOR/DME/ILS, RNAV, full fire fighting facilities, civilian ramp can easily accommodate a 738. Added bonus that it sits a lot lower than Kabul, in a ''plain'' of sorts, so the weather tends to be rather different to that of Kabul.

[EladElap]

dubaigong, for a normal flight yes you do need a PPR from ISAF. However I have diverted there from one of the smaller fields, and they've been more than accommodating allowing me to land their without having a PPR. As I've said though, for my money Mazar-I-Sharif is the best, also in terms of security (in spite of the UN incident there not too long ago).

[Flyer1015]

For anyone who has done the flyDubai assessment, is a medical exam a part of the interview/selection procedure?

If not, at what point does one obtain a UAE GCAA 1st class medical?

[Dustwing]

medical is part of the selection process, a medical 1st class you get after joining, doing everything again; there are some clinics in bahrain and qatar that are GACA authorized, you may get one there if you like... good luck.

D