Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged

[Tolerant Dubai]

Just to add to the mix.....

New destinations being looked at are rumoured to be Baghdad and somewhere in Somalia, probably Mogadishu.

Try tech stopping there.....

I posted this on December 1st 2011.....:O

[Ali Ronn]

Fortunately there's a big difference between 'looking' and 'going', so I won't be handing in my resignation just yet...

[Tolerant Dubai]

Well one is already on line......

[Ali Ronn]

There's quite a difference between BGW and MGQ (don't need to spell that out here).

If these were both being 'looked into' at the same time, and only BGW has materialised, then one would expect it is because the safety department have had the good sense to reject the latter for obvious reasons!

I live in hope...

[Flipboard]

@ Ali - Bagdad and Mogadishu is/was not looked at, at the same time. Mogadishu is up for review now. The top 3 is Moadishu, Bagdad and Kabul as #3. The issue is that commercial dep and safety dep is looking into going there, if no one shouts out they will soon introduce the flight, and then what. Do we start the fight then, or should we make our self heard now ?

[Ali Ronn]

It won't make any difference whether you object or not.

[Whoop Whoop Wake Up]

Unfortunately, I agree with Ali.

If the Company believes a route is profitable and meets their safety criteria, they will operate there regardless of your concerns. If you tell them you don't want to go there, they will invite you politely to shut up or find another job - what else can they do? Well, actually, they could offer those that are less concerned for their physical safety or without a family to support a financial incentive to operate flights into unstable countries/war zones, but that is a Pandora's Box they cannot afford to open.
Some people have already voted with their feet over the current destinations. The Company was 'sorry to lose them' - but evidently not that sorry...

[Flipboard]

I don´t know about you guys, but I would rather loose my job than my life.

This article is form August 2011..

LIZABETH JACKSON: By almost every index that exists the Somali capital Mogadishu rates as the most dangerous place on earth.

It is also in the grip of famine and every day scores of people are dying not only from violence but also from hunger caused by a man-made famine.

For aid workers trying to get aid into the city, security is one of their main concerns.

Africa correspondent Ginny Stein flew into Mogadishu this week but before she left she filed this report.

GINNY STEIN: Over a fine Indian meal in one of Nairobi's back street restaurants the security arrangements were laid out.

"You will have four to six guys within a five to ten metre radius, armed with concealed pistols around you at all times, I was told. Fifty metres away, there will be 30 to 40 men all armed with AK-47s or light machine guns. And from there, out of sight, but in the district there will be at least 100 to 200 heavily armed men. This is a standard three tier security arrangement."

I must admit, I'd stopped taking notes at about tier one, stunned by what I was hearing. I had to ask for it to be repeated to ensure I could accurately relay the information back to the ABC.

This, I am told is what it takes to operate safely in Mogadishu, but even then there are no guarantees.

And for the first time in my life, I am told there will be a price on my head; as a hostage I am worth about $4 million. Of course I am no-one special, I am just another potential revenue raising hostage.

The person laying all of this out was Australian aid worker and Somali veteran Tony Burns.

He's the operations manager for SAACID, the largest local aid agency working in Mogadishu. For 14 years he's worked with them in delivering relief aid.

We first meet the day news breaks of Al Shabab's retreat from the city.

For four years the Al Qaeda inspired militants have waged war in the battle torn streets of Mogadishu. Now they've pulled back claiming it represents a change in battle tactics. From now the plan is to wage guerrilla war.

I ask Tony what impact that will have on security in the city.

TONY BURNS: It definitely will get worse because previously there was a defined front line and that's not going to change. So essentially the whole city will become a front line. You'll have covert teams of Al Shabab moving about the city, doing hit and run attacks on military and political targets, you'll have freelance militias popping up throughout the city and doing the same and criminal militias doing the same.

So for the next two or three months, in transition to whatever comes, it's going to be much more dangerous.

!!!!And it goes on like that !!!!


This is Ginny Stein, now in Mogadishu, reporting for Correspondents Report.

[tothepoint]

Flipper,
you seem to be ranting on about something that doesn't exist!!!
I haven't heard FZ add Mogadishu as a destination.

Might as well talk about 787's, moving to Jebel Ali, setting up another base, car parking, 5 different payscales, DEC's, roster's the list goes on. I understand its a rumour website but nickers in a twist over nothing, more pressing issues to deal with. Such as some pilots/crew not being entitled to the full employment benefits due spouse - but not all!!! why not rant about all on a level playing feild, married or not!!

[captkirk3000]

Greetings to all!
I received an email invite to select a date for the assessment with CTC in the UK. However, I read on flydubai's website that you can choose to come to a pilot selection program instead of going to CTC. According to the website, the next pilot select is in Dubai, March 2012.
Question how would I go about choosing to go directly to Dubai for the pilot selection program instead of going to CTC?
Can someone who has recently went throu the assessment process please send me a PM please!

Thanks in advance!
Captkirk

[NGrat]

tothepoint

Flipper,
you seem to be ranting on about something that doesn't exist!!!
I haven't heard FZ add Mogadishu as a destination.

Might as well talk about 787's, moving to Jebel Ali, setting up another base, car parking, 5 different payscales, DEC's, roster's the list goes on. I understand its a rumour website but nickers in a twist over nothing, more pressing issues to deal with. Such as some pilots/crew not being entitled to the full employment benefits due spouse - but not all!!! why not rant about all on a level playing feild, married or not!!

This is confirmed by CP on last pilot meeting. "we are monitoring the situation, and when we think its safe enough we will start operation to MGQ"

Brgds

[Cruza]

Hi Chaps,


I know the requirements for FOs detailed on the FD webpage, my TT not a prob,Mutli Turbine >2000 but not on over 10 tonnes and have 737 classic time but little short of 500. For the guys who already work there and in the know, would you say worth applying or is FD really set on that 500hr mark?

Thanks for the info

[FZckntkawrap]

Always apply for a job you truly want. If nothing else, you at least showed interest, and sometimes that might just be enough to get in the door.......

[Guided accordingly]

Newbies, wannabes, Jobseekers, read between the lines and consider 'FZ Cntz' post above please and ..

''apply for the job you really want ''


The Flydubai Ad should read ....

Top destinations include, Kabul, Bastion, Kandahar, Baghdad, Najaf.

Announcing soon, exciting flights to Mogadishu and Benghazi !!

Awesome layovers in 'charming chiittagong' and 'disease ridden Dhaka'.

Only 67% of flights are night flights,

Great lifestyle and pay . . . . . :E

Come to FZ , the math is yours to do ! :)

Welcome aboard, be guided, and enjoy the ride :eek: lol

[Flat Cap]

As my old latin master used to say "Caveat Emptor"!

Apropos of nothing; I note with interest the 2 most recent fleet acquisitions log the out time when the wheels start to turn rather than brakes off. I sure I have a vague recollection of just a few short weeks ago, some important managing type saying "the company had no plans to change from the original brakes off arrangement". Obviously a small slip up at the Boeing factory that will be rectified shortly.

'Ear all, see all, say nowt; Eyt all, sup all, pay nowt
And if th' ivver tha does owt fer nowt -
meck sure tha' do it fer thi' sen'

F-C

[whatelse]

Dear colleagues,


Is Flydubai still hiring F/Os at the moment? Are there any expantion plans this year?

Thank you

[daf]

Let me know also :ugh: if they hire

[ManaAdaSystem]

If you two numpties cant find the FZ website, then I seriously doubt your chances to pass the selection! Really!

[potatowings]

I understand your post entirely MAS, but to the two previous posters defence. While they are advertising on their website. I have it on fairly good authority that they are not recruiting at the moment but will later in the year.

[daf]

Agreed!! I also hear from sources that they got what they need.

So, I was just wondering what people says.


:=

[whatelse]

Thanks potatowings!

MAS, things aren't that obvious! So don't forget to think out of the box :E

[ManaAdaSystem]

I have it from good authority that they are recruiting Effohs at the moment, but the course date is a totally different matter.

If you want the job, apply as per their web site. If not, don't apply. Why you need to step outside the box to do this, I have no idea.

[potatowings]

You're welcome guys.

Good luck to you both

[GOT123]

I am very interested in coming in contact with pilots from flydubai!
Specially if you come from Scandinavia....

Have lots of questions about living situation, family, children! And all that, that's got to be covered on the home front before moving down there!

Or if anyone have any other ideas!

Thanks!

[sanddigger]

Mmmmm......just taxi slower :ugh:

[Fly26]

Hi all, just got a question about Fly Dubai....if anyone has any info on it that be great (apologies if its been discussed)

Just when you fly into the delights of Kabul, Baghdad, Najaf...etc do you feel happy with the procedures/measures put into place to get in as safe as poss? Is it under military ATC or are the locals now involved these days?

Also who approves the procedures to get in...ex military guys or local management? From previous posts (airports closed due rocket attacks) it all sounds a bit dodgy......

cheers all

[Boeing Europe]

Hi all,

Have a few questions would appreciate some help:
1 what is the approx time to command in FD
2 are most pilots happy at the moment
3 I hear the pay is very good similar to emirates fo..?
4 is there a posibility you can get home once or twice every say 2 months?

really appreciate all info

[Flat Cap]

@Fly26

There are a few that are perfectly happy going to Afghanistan, most grit their teeth, close their eyes and think of England. Frankly I find going there a royal pain in the ar$e. Search for the Flydubai Kabul thread, you'll get a sense of what its like. Personally and I may well be considered a korma eating big girls blouse for saying so. No I don't feel safe and no I am not convinced the company has sufficient procedures in safe if it all goes pear shaped down route.

@BE

1. Currently running at 2yrs, this will change as the airline matures see "BurDubaiBob's" post earlier in this thread for more details.

2. Usual Middle Eastern mix of pilot attitudes a few happy souls, most just getting on with the job taking the money and trying to enjoy the good bits while ignoring the cr@p. A reasonable number thoroughly and vocally pi$$ed off desperate to get out.

3. On an average month an FO will take home 36,000 dirhams ($9800), out of this rent, utility bills, transport, must be paid. Flydubai don't arrange accommodation,utility bills, or chauffeur cars to pick you up.

4. Maybe if you don't mind being home for a max of 2 days at a time, and you live in southern EU,you might get a lucky break and have a 4 or 5 day block but don't count on it. Flydubai is based in DXB it's pilots are DXB domiciled they generally expect you to be here unless your are on leave, expect no favours from crewing.

If you come, lower your expectation, have your eyes wide open and it may not seem so bad.

Cheers
F-C

[BurDubaiBob]

I agree with what Flat Cap says.

1) There are already more than enough F/O's in flydubai to fill the LHS of the all aircraft still to be delivered - based on the original order of 50 aircraft made at Farnborough in 2008.
Unless flydubai order more aircraft, or unless a lot of Captains quit, any F/O who joins flydubai today will almost certainly wait many, many, many years for a slot to become available in the LHS.

2) Some are, some are not.

3) An Emirates F/O earns nearly as much as flydubai Captain. The total package at Emirates is far superior to that in flydubai.

4) Almost certainly impossible!
You could perhaps try bidding for 1 week of leave every 2 months, but there is no guarantee that you would get it.
The most you can expect from the roster is perhaps a few groups of 3 consecutive days-off spread throughout the month, though usually surrounded by duties with a late finish and early start.

[Iver]

Sounds like Flydubai would be a fall-back position if you don't get hired by EK and you really, really want to live in Dubai.

Has anyone compared Flydubai's package and roster to Air Arabia's lately? Probably been answered, but do you need to be fully typed and experienced on their respective airplanes (737NG and A320 respectively) to be considered for employment? Are many non-737 experienced pilots getting hired at FD (e.g., Flybe E-jet or Q400 drivers)?

Sounds like a natural alternative for pi$$ed off Ryanair 737NG drivers who want to escape their lunatic CEO.

[Fly26]

Flatcap & BDB

Thanks for your info thats really helpful. Flatcap thats interesting what you said regarding Kabul etc...I thought as much. I dont mind dropping into these places as long as I know what I'm getting into before hand. After all its still a war zone. Thanks for the thread are have a look.

[LNAV VNAV -]

'4. Maybe if you don't mind being home for a max of 2 days at a time, and you live in southern EU,you might get a lucky break and have a 4 or 5 day block but don't count on it. Flydubai is based in DXB it's pilots are DXB domiciled they generally expect you to be here unless your are on leave, expect no favours from crewing.'


I have a lot of friends in Fly Dubai and they are more than happy with rostering. They use AIMS and give away flights all the time, thus creating blocks of days OFF like 7, 8 or even 9 days OFF at a time. They go home all the time and almost never use their leave. I am certain about this because I talk to them every day! I don't know how this ties with what I read above!!

[DHC-8]

Hey fellow drivers,

Firstly I would like to thank everyone here already employed taking the time giving us real intel as usually once people get hired they forget all about forums.

Secondly i would like to know how is the atmosphere like in the cockpit? captains attitudes? autocratic? mister i know everything? or i know better than Boeing follow my SOP??

Cheers guys, talk to you soon.

[BritishGuy]

LNAV VNAV, please don't generalize. You must be on CRACK to make such statements. 7-9 days off on the trot to go home and never use their leave? I don't know of ONE that manages this type of rostering.

Troll?? Maybe?? Has to be.

[Fly26]

LNAV VNAV

Really?? Can anyone else back this up?

[LNAV VNAV -]

Are you expecting me to give you their names???

They are Fly Dubai captains and First Officers. They live in Dubai and work for Fly Dubai. They all joined within the last year. Three captains and five first officers to be precise. I speak regularly with all of them and they all say that it is easy to give flights to other pilots using AIMS SWAP (or something?) and take their days OFF. So, if they have, say, two days OFF, then three flights and then three days OFF, they give away the three flights and end up with eight days OFF in a row.

I don't understand where you see a generalization and I don't like the crack comment. :=

[BritishGuy]

I can assure everybody on here that 5+ (heck, 3+) days off at FD is NOT the norm. Unless you're using bits of your annual leave to bump up your days off I find it hard to believe. Yes, it is possible to swap your stuff with other people - true, but when most people have schedules that are so restrictive, it's really hard to change too much as everyone else is in the same position. But try using AIMS to do any type of swap/drop is an absolute nightmare. The parameters are just so restrictive that it doesn't just allow you to drop your trips and gain so many days off on the row.

I hope your buddies at FD aren't counting their Available days and Standby days as days off.

I guess I won't justify it too much - one post on here saying FD rosters are great doesn't change what most people on here are saying.

[Flat Cap]

Not saying clearing a block of days isn't impossible, just improbable and the higher up the seniority the better chance you stand of managing if. However as a new entry FO with sen. no. 350 you certainly couldn't attempt to build a commuting lifestyle out of it for instance. I managed to hook a 2 blocks of days off once, took me week and a fair bit of arm twisting to do it.

As for AIMS, its a bit of a curates egg, good in parts and some are more skilled in its manipulation that others. However, swapping duties that span 2 days is tricky, and a large % of FD duties go over night, swapping the Northern duties tricky because you can only swap with LVO qualified guys, and there a only about 3 of those (minor exaggeration for poetic effect but you get the idea).

If your mates are doing it regularly L-V my respects to them, for they are better men than I am Gunga Din.

That said, for me at least the most recent rosters have shown a marked improvement and I have been getting 3 and occasionally 4 days off in a row. But don't tell anyone or they will all want it.

F-D

[BritishGuy]

I would say recently (since Jan 2012) rosters have gotten a little better, but some people make out that the rosters are the best on earth. They're better than what they were before, so making an improvement isn't so hard. Sort of like being an E grade student and making an improvement to a D/C grade. So of course we're a little happier, but by no means are they 'great' - well, I'll speak for mine anyway. They're alright - but by no means great.

To a certain extent I guess it's all depended on who you've worked for in the past. If you've worked for a 2 bit airline then you'd think this place is heaven. But then again, if you're used to working for a civil airline (again, hard to come by) then this place is pants.

Wrapping things up, rosters have improved a bit - that's for sure, but more improvement is possible and an effort should be made to make sure rosters, conditions etc are continually improving.

For example, topping up insurance and coverage out of your own pocket. Errr..... no thanks. It's sort of embarrassing to know that your company values you so much that in the event of an accident, your passengers are insured for more than the crew is. Shameful I think.

[ABBOT]

Bit of a surprise in February, got local life insurance bill in. Last year it was AED 4200, this year AED 9140. Jumped up and down a bit and asked why, I'm not ski-ing any faster, diving any deeper or climbing any higher? Answer, er no, it's not that we just checked the destinations that you go to with Flydubai, budget that one in chaos.:8

[ABBOT]

Chaos should be chaps, I'll preview next time:eek:

[updown1989]

Hi folks,

Don't want to stir things up, but, anyone even thinking of coming here to 'Flydangerous' should see that one of the wonderful destinations on offer (amongst Kabul and Kandahar) is the delightful Camp Bastion.
Is it really wise to be operating a civilian un-armed airliner to a War Zone?
Link here to full story.

BREAKING NEWS: Vehicle exploded on Camp Bastion runway at same time as U.S. Defence Secretary arrived | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114951/BREAKING-NEWS-Vehicle-exploded-Camp-Bastion-runway-time-U-S-Defence-Secretary-arrived.html?ITO=1490)

I have a trip coming in the not too distant future and I am not happy about going and nor are my wife and family.

Remember that if you are killed on duty here with the present sh1 life insurance policy (which is less than a passenger gets) then the family will barely get enough money to bury you and the flight home, what then for them?

However, the company, will kindly let you PAY FOR YOUR OWN 'upgraded' life insurance policy. This is not only insulting, but, absolutely disgusting considering the places these people will have you fly to.
This really is the barrel. Do not come here unless absolutely desperate to work or have no sense of danger.

Seriously, I used to read this stuff when I was in my home country and took it with a pinch of salt. But no, it is VERY REAL guys!

Sure some people say they are happy here and have no problems (so they say) and I am pleased for them, however personal risk of life is too precious when one has a family to feed and look after.

Just read this;

Car bomb attack on Camp Bastion runway just as U.S. Defence Secretary arrived for 'surprise visit'
Vehicle drove onto runway and burst into flames
Explosion happened as Leon Panetta's plane was landing
Afghan man employed at the base was driving the vehicle
Poses huge questions over security at Afghan base
Comes days after rogue U.S. soldier massacred 16 Afghans
By DAILY MAIL REPORTER
PUBLISHED: 15:43 GMT, 14 March 2012 | UPDATED: 19:02 GMT, 14 March 2012

U.S. Defence Secretary Leon Panetta was the apparent target of a suicide bomber at Britain's main base in Afghanistan today.
A vehicle drove onto the runway at Camp Bastion and exploded into flames at the same time as Mr Panetta's plane was landing in what looks to have been a suicide attack.
It comes just days after a rogue U.S. soldier massacred 16 civilians on a rampage - and weeks after American troops were caught burning Korans.
And it has posed massive questions over security at the base.


Read more: BREAKING NEWS: Vehicle exploded on Camp Bastion runway at same time as U.S. Defence Secretary arrived | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114951/BREAKING-NEWS-Vehicle-exploded-Camp-Bastion-runway-time-U-S-Defence-Secretary-arrived.html#ixzz1p7cO1Coq)


Think twice before applying, that's all I'm saying.

Safe sky's

Regards

UD89

[Tolerant Dubai]

updown1989,

I totally agree. Add to the mix our plans to fly into Mogadishu and the term “Flydangerous” really is the most appropriate name for our airline.

[dash8pilotCanada]

According to their website, Flydubai is not hiring any more DEC.. Can anyone confirm this? Are the really full stocked on captains?

[Kabul 1]

Yes
It s confirmed.

[ABBOT]

When flying to some of our more uncouth destinations we should purchase ourselves a discounted return ticket to afford ourselves similar protection as our passengers!

This would go a little way to alleviate the stresses of worries such as Kabul, Kandahar and Baghdad. Where one may be subject to shooting, bombing or the chance of being abducted by an insurgent or imposter. Or, Chittagong or Dhaka were a dose of Dengue fever may ensue. Not to mention the untold pleasures of the new proposed destinations.

I admit that it may be a little bit of an odd solution, but in the situation in which flydubai's employees find themselves 'odd' may be the new 'normal'.

I do foresee a small issue with the companies insurers, as the crew will obviously need to change appearance and take their assigned seats in the cabin in the event of any downroute issue, in addition, a passenger discrepancy on departure would need to be accepted.

I will suggest this to my insurers in the hope of a discount to my new premium.:8

[RandyBMC]

Not sure exactly how this would help, as the biggest issue would be an airplane going tech. If it didn't, we can fly it back as planned. :confused:

[ABBOT]

Pax insurance pays better that proposed company insurance on return of mortal remains, corpses that is. Just maximising on investment.:O

[Sciolistes]

Where did you get that information?

[ABBOT]

IATA general conditions of carriage, article 16.4, on the death of a passenger the sum of $75,000 shall be paid. However, death is only the beginning as they say. Quote from Julian Bray, editor of the Lloyds list 'the average payment to the relatives of a person killed in an aircraft incident is $140,000.

The sum of theses two figures is considerably more than the payment made to a staff member who dies in the course of their duties based on a multiple of annual basic salary. This is especially important with low cost operations, as the basic salaries are often very low.

Another factor to consider, the crew may be determined to be jointly and severally liable for the loss, for many, once dead this is not much of a factor. However, the estate of the deceased could come under threat.

[LookingSouth]

Good Day. Does anyone know of when CTC will be offering another round of FO interviews?

Thanks

[NGrat]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any facts regarding the repatriation tickets mentioned in the FZ contract??
I heard that some guys was denied the tickets because they were joining a nother like Emirates or Etihad??
I believe the contract clearly states that FZ will provide repatriation tickets after completion of contract, and nothing is mentioned about leaving or staying in UAE!!
Does anyone know if its mentioned in UAE labour law??

Cheers

NG

[NewBird]

Hello Ngrat,

I dunno about FZ contracts - but my company gives a ticket only when one is moving out of UAE permanently. Few of my friends who have moved over to other companies in the UAE - were not given a ticket. From what limited knowledge i have on UAE labor law -unfortunately - one is entitled to get a ticket only if you move permanently out of UAE:ugh:

[Bodacia]

Hi,

I am a recent ex 767 captain, and a four year ex 737 captain, is it worth applying to Fly Dubai in the hope of getting a fairly rapid command? I have been reading some of the posts here, is it that bad or are these things being over stated? Is it easy to get back and forth to London with staff travel? I have spoken to a friend in Emirates who says that the pay of a Fly Dubai captain is about the same as an Emirates First Officer when the perks of the companies are taken into consideration, is this the general perception in Fly Dubai? One last question, I hear that Definately Emirates and possibly Etihad received about a months salary as a bonus last year, was this also the case with Fly Dubai.

Apologies for all the questions, but I have applications in progress for Emirates and Etihad, I don't want to miss out on a chance of a quick command with Fly Dubai should I blow the Emirates interview for DEC next month.

[Elephant flyer]

Bodacia - Go for the Emirtaes DEC - it's a no brainer. Conditions are far superior. As you know there are no DEC positions in Fludubai now and all promotions are upgrades. Flydubai have reduced the remaining number of 737s on order and this year there will only be a net gain of approx 3 or 4 aircraft. So no point in joining as an FO with a hope of quick upgrade as it is done on seniority. There won't be that many upgrades this year which is going to upset a lot of FOs. The company has held an emergency meeting to discuss the large amount of pilot resignations. Don't know what was reviewed, but there's been no mention of any pay increase this year, and there's been no increase in transport allowance, education allowance or housing allowance for a number of years.
Now pilots feel trapped in the company. Bad enough a $24,000 bond for three years (even for type rated pilots), although every pilot accepted this when starting, but now they have an agreement with Emirates to stop pilots joining ER until they've been at FZ for three years.
They must be so scared about pilots wanting to leave.

Maybe the "grown up way" and professional way would be to consider the conditions and improve them. Though some things won't change.

Make your decision, but I wouldn't cancel that interview with ER!

[ABBOT]

This is getting increasingly difficult to use, now you have to fill in a form, have it approved, get a number from Emirates and then drag off to the travel office for the issue of a low priority ticket.

You then turn up at the airport and try to get a flight, the chances of getting on can be very slim. Now, if bumped off, you used to be able to call the Emirates travel centre and get re-listed, then have a shot at another flight.

That situation is no more, according to the latest plan, you have to e-mail Emirates and get another number to allow you to re-list. I have not tried it yet, but I think it will make being bumped from the 08:00 LGW, then resisting by phone onto the 08:05 BHX and then sprinting for the gate a little difficult.

Flydubai's in house travel is easier, all on line with six discounted firm seats per aircraft up for grabs. Can be a little pricey, but they are firm.

Hope this helps with your plans.:bored:

[biggle99]

Hello Guys

What exactly are they looking for as First Officer regarding hours and experience. I just received an email from Flydubai.

Thank you for your application to flydubai.

Following a careful review of your completed application, we regret to advise you that your application has not been successful on this occasion. Unfortunately, we are unable to provide any feedback on the reasons for our decision at this time.:ugh:

Currently flying Q400 as command and have over 7000 hours of which 4000 multi pic. Also hold a B737 rating :confused:

Also can I reapply again in the future ? it doesn't show anywhere.

Cheers

[Fly26]

Recieved the same email........Im 2600 hours on type, Have FD stopped recruiting FO's now? thanks all.

[Boeing Europe]

Hi all just curious as to some people saying emirates FO'S make the same as fly dubai captains as advertised on the ek website emirates FO's are on 29k aed basic while on flydubai website it says Fo's can expect to earn approx 39k aed thats like 6800 euros and from what i have been told by other friends working in dubai (non aviation) they said you can live extremely confortable on that after your rent is paid etc even with private pension paid insurance etc,talking about a single guy n my case no spouse / kids :ok:

[Iver]

Sorry to be a bit negative, but maybe you gents who received the bad news from Flydubai should see this as a "sign." Why not add to your experience and hours and then apply to Emirates and Qatar once you are more competitive instead? Both are growing fast... QR is adding 750 pilots this year according to a recent article. Just a suggestion...

[Flat Cap]

@BE

It's more complicated to compare than you might guess. EK get fringe benefits like paid housing inc. utilities and a chauffeur car to and from the airport these are not included in the 29k, all of this is included in a FZ FO's 39k.

But to give you a board comparison the total package if you factor this in for an EK FO would be 29k basic&flight pay, 13k housing, and oh say 1.5k for transport and 1.5k for utilities.

So FZ Fo = 39k (36k is closer to the truth), EK FO. approx 45k, FZ Capt. 52k

hope this helps.

F-C

[VaniosLenos]

Recently the company was hiring first officers with no experience on type, straight out of ATRs and Jetstreams etc, to fly the NG, probably in an effort to man the agressive expansion. By the time these pilots, together with the cadetts, gain experience on type, along with the internal upgrades, will have as a result, the overall drop of the level of experience of the company's pilots. And on a busy 4 sector day or when things start to look...complicated then its not a good recipe. I would like to hope that rostering is aware of this and is not pairing new upgrades with new, inexperienced on type, hires:).
Also there is a possibility that the company has realized this particular issue and they are now looking 'more carefully' (through CTC) for pilots experienced on type, taking into consideration the fact that only 3 or 4 new aircraft are arriving this year.

[RandyBMC]

The upgrade requirements are "vigorous", with the average flight time of an upgrade candidate being around 7000 hours (some a lot more, some less). The minimum requirement to upgrade is 4000 total, 1000 B737 and 500 flydubai. There are then several checkpoints to reach the upgrade, including a panel interview with the Chief Pilot and Head of Training. Not really seeing the drop in experience you are mentioning.

That said, I don't disagree that our environment is challenging, and it takes a good crew to make it work!

[FZckntkawrap]

Hi VL,

While I agree that the overall level of NG experience may have decreased in recent months, I honestly think the overall standard of pilot has increased in the right seat. Personally I would rather have a 4,000 hour former turboprop skipper backing me up in the right seat than a 2,000 hour 737NG only pilot who went through a cadet program. It's not meant as a slam against cadets, but sitting in the LEFT seat of ANY aircraft making decisions makes you a much better FO if you have to sit right seat once again to eventually advance your career. It really is strange all of this attitude about "oh god, we've hired a bunch of turboprop pilots". Most of the recent hires won't see upgrade for at least a good solid 3 years, just ask the guys that have already been waiting 2+ years.......

As for rostering, if it's legal, they will schedule it :}

[Dan 98]

I have just had the PFO didn't even make the paper sift!! TR 737 with 1600hrs on type.
I obviously didn't tick one of the boxes....they don't tell you which one though. :confused:

[NGrat]

Thanks... Guess ill wait a few month with my resignation. And of course ill be leaving the country...:suspect:
Just heard a few Captains got denied DEC with EK even though they have been with FZ more than 3 years, and had the received thumbs up by EK, can anyone confirm that?? If thats the case i think FZ really is stretching the boundry here... they might as well hire slaves and take away their passports!!

NG

[Alaska737]

It was inevitable that they would create some kind of permanent ban to stop anyone leaving FD to go to EK. How can you trust a company that has successively each year implemented a new ban! There is no respect anymore, the word "slave" is very real at FD.

[tothepoint]

Randy,
Vigorous - doesn't really spring to mind. Those on furlough with a decision between 3 deferrals and up to 10 years to make their mind up should consider themselves fortunate to be hired relatively early on in the piece to be given the opportunity to upgrade. Especially when the old CP was accepting F/O office workers and extra curricular activities as a carrot.

I'm of the opinion that 4 sims and some line training to command isn't vigorous compared to the majority of other airlines around the world. And I've flown with some that would have not made it through a vigorous process! So the line experience of a newly upgraded 1000hr 737NG capt rostered to go to OAKB on their first roster is probably stretching it and leaving the door open to some indiscretions. Learn on the job with basic upgrade training is where FZ is at, great if you have the seniority but unless capt move on there are many with much more than the minimum that won't get the chance for a while.

In relation to the DEC at EK, that is by far the biggest threat. - those that have completed the initial 3 year contract that were accepted and then denied are having their livelihood dictated by management that are inept and borderline unconscious to what is happening around them. (or very conscious to what's happening and resort to this kind of behaviour).

On another note Mogadishu hasn't happened as yet - still waiting.

Rostering is still a farce and if you are a night owl and enjoy living in the night rather than the day then this is the job for you!!

For those that have missed out on being recruited consider it a good thing.
Many are there are hoping that Europe and the US will pick up economically so they can return - not many in for the long term.

Not to say that I don't enjoy the variety of flying but discussions at pilot meetings to fix things such as pay structures and rosters to make FZ attractive and keep people here are useless until there is some action taken.

[RandyBMC]

Vigorous is certainly what I consider the interview to be, considering there isn't one in the US, at any carrier. It is seniority based. I can't argue with you when you say you have flown with some that would not have made it through a "real" vigorous process, as it was your experience and not mine; I just hope you aren't referring to me! :}

I do consider myself lucky to have been hired at flydubai when I was. Just like I consider myself to be unlucky to be at UAL when I was to endure two furloughs and have to rebuild my career twice. I am always thankful for any opportunity I am given in aviation - something I think I have learned over a, well, not short career. I am no spring chicken anymore (not that I'm old!).

I have worked in the office on a couple of special projects. One of those is the current issue of pilot morale - which I am trying to use to better the conditions. I certainly wouldn't have tried to make a difference if I thought everything was perfect here. Take a look back at my posts and I think I have been pretty honest and realistic about flydubai, good and bad. Most, if not all, of the things I have worked "in the office" on have been to better the pilot group's conditions. More like union work (an illegal term here, which is why it is office work).

Ok, so all of that said, I agree that we fly to some very challenging places, even for experienced folks - circle to lands in KTM and KBL are good examples. I have been thankful for the excellent help I've encountered from both seats. I was merely saying in my above post that I don't necessarily see any difference in the quality of the upgrades to the DECs. Thought that to be a fair statement to rebut.

Feel free to shoot me an email if you have anything else you would like to discuss. I'd be happy to buy a round while we talk it over. :ok:

Randy

[tothepoint]

Not a dig at you R, BMC more so on the word vigorous, I think that the process here is a little less vigorous than others and the process could be a little better.

I think it leaves alot of guys learning out on the line which ain't so good for the new upgrades considering where we fly, they just have the advantage of seeing it for a year or 2 before the change seats.

my shout on the beers - no offence was intended personally.

[onvacation]

Does anyone know if Flydubai banned captains from joining emirates as DEC's.
Also, is the flight pay raise gonna happen, and how much will it be?

[Ali Ronn]

I heard that DECs had been prevented from transferring to EK, but I checked directly with the people allegedly affected and I do not believe this particular rumour to be true.

We should consider putting questions such as this on the FZ Portal, where we may be able to get a definitive response for the benefit of all the pilots.

They will announce details of the pay rise when they're ready - I can't see much point in discussing it speculatively until then.

Why don't you try and attend the Chief Pilot's meeting tomorrow?

[shoreline]

Does FZ have any layovers already?

Also, is it possible to see a FZ roster to get an idea?

Thanks

[Speedy737]

Hello there. I'm keen on joining FZ and looking for a little info. Currently emplyoyed with an airline in India, and once I hand in my resignation I have to spend 6 months in the company before being allowed to leave. Was wondering if FZ would be willing to wait the 6 months, or do they need pilots to joint immediately. That is of course if selected by FZ. Also if anyone can tell me how long I'd be looking at in the right seat before seeing the left. Thanks in advance!!

[onvacation]

Sweet raise huh? Keep the money and make better schedules!

[FZckntkawrap]

Keeping the raise won't have any affect on our schedules. Even if we had a prefbid system it too would be used against the pilots. 5 on/2 off is back again!

[bailee atr]

How much of a raise are they talking about. Is it a raise for base pay or housing/benefits?

[Old King Coal]

From recruitment of its initial pilots in late Feb 2009 (and aside from the introduction of the 'B' salary & allowances scale) all salary's & allowances remained static until April 2011 when a 2% increase was applied to the Basic Salary only (i.e. no increase in 'Allowances' ), and which not all pilots received (based upon length of service and / or date of promotion; thereby effectively introducing a 'C' scale).

In April 2012 a 10 Dhs per hour increase in Block-Hour pay was awarded to all pilots.

Do the math! :E

[Speedy737]

Hello!! Can anyone possibly answer my earlier post please. I see the airline has screenings coming up in august. Any info you can give me would be much appreciated. Thanks

[The Prophet of Truth]

I feel cheap!

[migair54]

Hello all..

I applied for FZ a long back like 4 or 5 months and everytime i check my application it shows Awaiting for decission.

How long does it take usually??

I´ve seen they have some kind of open days in Dubai in August, is it possible to go there or do I need to be invited??

Thank you mates...

[Blue system]

Hi,

I also would like to know what time frame one can expect from application (NTR) to the rejection or go ahead from FlyDubai?

I applied at the same time as two of my mates (all of us have well above minimum requirements) and they got the rejection email within a week. I have now waited for approx 4 weeks and still haven`t heard anything? My experience is about the same as my mates but I am a TRI/TRE and have got a university degree in an aviation related subject.
How much will FlyDubai weigh in on my TRI/TRE experience and university degree at inital online screening of my application.

See you in Dubai.....(hopefully) :cool:

[MIKECR]

Can anyone confirm whats happening recruitment wise...are they still looking for more people or have things slowed up?

[FZckntkawrap]

As much as most of us would like to help with the hiring and HR questions, please understand that flydubai HR does not like flight ops in anyway at all. It is difficult enough for those of us who work here to manage our own contractual benefits, ie getting questions answered about simple matters, that to get answers about hiring plans is next to impossible. At one time pilot recrutment was handled by the senior instructors, now HR handles it and flight ops has been cutoff from "interfering" so the experts can understaff our FO positions and hold up long deserved upgrades.

[Chirpy Pilot]

Applied to FlyDubai around December last year and received an email from them stating that I meet their requirements and will be in touch Spring 2012.
Received an email this morning, now saying that I have been unsuccessful in my application as I now dont meet their requirements. Have over 8000 hours half on which is on jet/turbo prop command. Strange!

[FZckntkawrap]

Chirpy,

It's not strange, it's flydubai HR at its best! Lots a great candidates passed over for no reason, or at least no reason our illustrious HR department will share!

[Iver]

Chirpy,

Sounds like a gift. Although you have to take anything said on Pprune with a grain of salt, FD gets the fewest compliments in this board. If you want a Middle Eastern version of Ryanair with lots of night flying, keep applying. Others are hiring in the Gulf. If FD cannot appreciate your background and treat you in a professional manner, perhaps others will. Just expect long delays with those airlines considering the large inflow in applications. Manage your expectations.

Good luck!

[111boy]

sorry to hear that chirpy, almost the same happened to me. Except I did the one hour interview in Dubai and endless, pointless medical. Same as you hours wise, current on the 800. I look back on it as a waste of time, and reading these threads, I think you had a result, good luck.

[Ali Ronn]

Chirpy

It could be a case of bad timing.

I expect with your experience you applied for a direct entry command?

FD are only taking FOs now, as they expect to satisfy captain requirements with upgrades.

However, communication leaves a lot to be desired and if this was the reason, it my not have been stated.

[Chirpy Pilot]

No applied as an F/O. Probably a blessing in disguise, as changing type soon onto Embraer 190. Then medium term goal is to go contracting left hand seat Middle East/Asia. Bofore anyone mentions Qatar/Emirates long haul does not interest me.
Thanks for all the replies.

[Not Military]

Heard from someone who heard from groundcrew there that a misile hit the airfield last week and barely missed one of our planes? Is it true? False? Partly True? Does anyone know anything?

[Elephant flyer]

Chirpy, sorry to hear your story. I know any job when you need it is a blessing, but I think you've had a lucky escape. I endorse Iver's comments. Ryanair of the Middle East is apt.
A company that bonds type rated pilots for $24000 and then also blocks them from moving for a minimum of three years within the Middle East is outrageous. Everyone who signs knows about the bond and accepts it, but for a company to hold pilots prisoner because they are so scared that professional pilots will seek to work for a professionally run company simply "stinks" (for the want of using a printable expression).
No rise in transport allowance and no rise in housing allowance since the abolishment of A scale, when living costs are going skywards in Dubai shows the complete and total lack of understanding and appreciation of the workforce by this management, who show a complete total incompetence in communication with the workforce.
I wish you well with your career Chirpy and hope you find an employer worthy of your experience. Don't even think about looking over your shoulder with a glance back at Flydubai - the management at least are not worthy.

[BritishGuy]

Is this what you're talking about? A bomb near Kandahar Airport. BBC report today.

BBC News - Kandahar hit by suicide attackers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-18337557)

[Flat Cap]

OK so I'm prefacing everything below with, this as general rumour not reported action. Certainly nothing remotely as formal as a Safety (:uhoh:) Dept. notice about events, and I've not yet run into the crew members involved for confirmation. However in the absence of "official" information, the FD drivers that read this migh find it informative.

Technically it should probably have its own thread, but people asked and look here.

Event happened some 3 weeks or so back. Twin rocket attack on KDH, one of which struck the ramp pretty well at the location FD usually park up at the scheduled time the FD aircraft should have been there. Fortunately this particular day the flight was running a little late. So it was all done and dusted by the time the FD flight arrived, and beyond some shrapnel damage to the tarmac no harm done. Had they been on time that day ......:ooh:

Apparently the people with the rocket launchers "just got lucky" that and the chances of it happening again like that is negligible. So that nice. :suspect:

Crew filed a full report to The Spaceman in the hope that it would be released via the official channels 3 weeks later nothing and so the rumour mill grinds to slowly into life and smoke signals and tom-toms send the message "Careful team there are nasty men with guns out there"

"The air attack warning sounds like...
This is the sound
When you hear the air attack warning
You and your family must take cover."

Name the song and win a coconut.

Take Care
F-C

[Alaska737]

I am shocked! No news on this delightful destination....it would surely be another money spinner and benefit those greasy palms with all the hazard pay our crews don't see!

[Whoop Whoop Wake Up]

F-C

I do have the story first hand from one of the crew involved and you are on the money.

And guess why they were late and missed being hit by a rocket on ramp kilo in KDH...

Yup - they had a TCAS RA in OAZ and had to fly a missed approach!

Two Tribes Go To War. Where's me coconuts?

WWPU

[Iver]

For the adventurous people out there, certainly would be more "interesting" than flying back-and-forth into Stansted 2-3 times per day... :}:eek::}:}:cool:

[feeso]

Hello guys, does anyone have any news about the new Fly Dubai Assessment. Please if u have any updates let me know.. Safe Flying to all..

[Elixir]

Has FlyDubai changed their hours requirements for FO applications? I am sure it was 1500 hours total but now I've just been on the website and it says 2500 hours.

[Tolerant Dubai]

You’ll end up with around 24-26,000 AED per month.

My advice, don’t bother, most people I know (including me) are all leaving. This is probably THE worst company I have ever worked for.

The pay this month is delayed. Company will not take responsibility for the mess and has said that any financial liabilities are our own problem. This is despite the pay being late. As you know, financial liabilities in the UAE can really cause you problems, even jail.

You pay peanuts, you get........:ugh:

[FZckntkawrap]

I'm no company apologist if you've ever read any of my posts, but this months debacle with salaries is not flydubai's fault. Yes its a mess and it affected everyone at the company who does not use NBD. You would be surprised that if you got up off your duff and called your local financial institution to explain the issue with the central bank, most if not all late fees would be refunded, but hey its more fun to get on here on a Saturday night to moan :{

This has to be second worst company I've ever worked at :cool:

[Tolerant Dubai]

Congrats.

'but this months debacle with salaries is not flydubai's fault’.

I’m glad you think it’s all OK. I do apologise, I thought it was OK to voice my own opinions on here.

By the way, have you read any of the emails from the CFO?

May I ask how you are able to tell me that this is not flydubai's fault?

[Breakthesilence]

Hi there,

I have a single but important question:

does an eye surgery (myopia correction) done in 2005, respecting all the pre and post requirements by the medical aviation law (JAA) compromise the medical fitness in flydubai?
Every year declared suitable by the Medical Authority during the First Class Medical renewall.

Is the medical check performed during the selection or before joining?

Thanks a lot

[Nightrider083]

hello i am Hs125 900xp pilot with over 1000 hrs can i apply for flydubai?? i dont have Airbus or boing type.. any advice mates..

[adverse-bump]

Advice? How about checking there web site for yourself! :ugh:

...and once you've looked don't bother !

[738buku]

Just applied.. Will see how it goes..Rated on type

[Toilet]

Well there is some thing FDB is good at , and that is crew turnover, actual we are right up there in the top, when it comes to pilots and cabin crew leaving the company.

13 % of the pilot corps has left Flydubai from day one. That's 47 pilots during a world recession...Well done , keep up the good work, can´t wait to see the numbers when the economy is back on track

Easyjet had back in 2006 when everything was booming a turnover at 10 %...

[archer_737]

Applied last week (near 3k hours on type).

Received the rejection email yesterday. I am not shortlisted for any interview with them.

I wonder if they have a common system with EK and they saw there that I was already in the successful applicants pool for Emirates.

Otherwise I can't understand that I am suitable for a EK position and not for a FD one.

Well, will have to look for another "B plan".

[LookingSouth]

I do have an interview coming up with flydubai. I know there has been lots of information posted in the past regarding the interview with CTC. But does anyone have any updated information within the last few months?

Thanks in advance.

[Alaska737]

The real questions people should be asking (and maybe someone can confirm the accuracy of) is the pilot attrition rate - I heard 20%
When looking at a potential company you should also ask what kind of punitive culture do they have? Rostering culture? Are they bound by the contracts or change things to suit themselves? Honesty? Openness? Safety? Discretion being expected rather than optional?

[Tolerant Dubai]

Donald Rumsfeld Unknown Unknowns ! - YouTube (http://youtu.be/GiPe1OiKQuk)

Guess who?

Comments please :O

[BritishGuy]

Hahhahahah, pure class!

[macca32springer]

Does Donald Rumsfeld work in the safety department now?

[RavidDay]

No Macca, this maybe hard to believe, but it is an even bigger bullsh!tter than Rumsfeld!

[bettigio]

Elixir
Has FlyDubai changed their hours requirements for FO applications? I am sure it was 1500 hours total but now I've just been on the website and it says 2500 hours.

Strange....the NearMiss with Air Arabia last week the F/O had 470 total time.
Is it true FlyDubai is getting B777?

[Dusty1]

B737 type rated first officers

B737-300 to 900 (NG/EFIS) endorsed within the last 24 months.
At least 1,500 hours total flying time.
At least 500 hours on B737-300 to 900 (NG/EFIS) type aircraft.
Non-B737 type rated first officers

First Officers – must have 2,500 hours total flying time, of which 1,000 hours must have been gained on modern (EFIS) multi-crew, multi-engine aircraft over 10 tonnes operating weight (preference will be given to those with PIC time).

[Michaelamou]

Hi guys,

I'm thinking about applying to FD, would anyone be so kind as to please PM me the latest on the interview and selection process.

Appreciate any info, thanks alot.

[falcon10]

Have 9000+ mostly jet, 737 rating, heavy intl etc, and got the no thanks email today for the FO position! WTF?

[Tower Ranger]

Bit of thread drift but we were all a bit surprised to be clearing you guys in 123 to Alepo today, there can't be many riskier place to fly into at the moment. Do you get extra danger money for flying into active war zones?

[Tolerant Dubai]

Tower Ranger, technically Syria is not a war zone and neither is Afghanistan. That is of course, according to our safety dept.

Just lots of naughty boys pointing guns at one another and not meaning actually hit anything. Duck and dive ladies!

[Tower Ranger]

Thanks TD, if I saw that trip in my monthly rota I`d be thinking "duvet day'!

[ABBOT]

Flydubai is a wonderful establishment, this is of course if you have a highly evolved sense of humour, a penchant for cynicism and a liking for horse****.

Fortunately, I have all three. However, the dung from my well bred steeds I think smells a little sweeter.:O

[DucknDive]

Almost done with my 3 years in FZ and I was hoping on staying but noooo way. Things are really bad here and I would never recommend anyone to join unless you have no other option. Still operating into Syria and claiming its safe!!! A civilian airline that sends out a Rocket Alert Response guide!!!
Just really disapointed on this lot and see no future here anymore :ugh:

Good luck

[Tolerant Dubai]

It's astonishing isn't it?

I read the latest 'safety' brief regarding Syria and fell off my chair laughing. The news was on at the time and reporting a very different situation.

However, it does make me wonder why our Chief Commercial Officer was sent in to review Aleppo and not the 'safety' team. No wonder he found that the biggest concern was baggage congestion due to lack of staff......

Maybe they are staying at home and taking shelter :ugh:

Wonder if we will ever get a 'security' update on Kabul or Khandahar :=

[ZAZOO]

Why does it take so long for a simple response from flydubai......applied months ago and now I have an offer next door and since no response from them I just can't weight the two options....

Oh well

[what-to-do]

I'm afraid this is your first insight into FZ...... don't get much better once you've joined.

Best of luck guys!

[mave292]

Anybody else's salary lodged into their account this morning ?? Strange

[Old King Coal]

mave292, forsooth, do you not read the emails emanating from HR? ... such as this one sent on 9th August 2012 @ 10:09:

Eid Al-Fitr (End of Ramadan) is expected to be on 18th or 19th August 2012.

It is generally expected that the flydubai office in Dubai will be closed for 2 days on Sunday 19th & Monday 20th August .
Please plan your work and personal schedules accordingly. Employees working on shifts/rosters will continue with their regular schedules.

In additionally, as a one off gesture, we will be processing this month’s payroll before the Eid holiday to ensure you receive your salary in time to enjoy the festivities.

[mave292]

Obviously not, have a tendency to delete HR emails !!! Thanks

[Jeffdh17]

When I saw the text message from the bank I just assumed it was my end of service benefit and they must have forgotten to inform me that my services were no longer needed. Hahahahaha!

Happy EID!

[Capt Bubbles]

Has anybody been to CTC to do selection recently? Has the format changed at all to the one that is kicking about on here? Thanks in advance :)

[changi.prison]

In additionally, as a one off gesture, we will be processing this month’s payroll before the Eid holiday to ensure you receive your salary in time to enjoy the festivities.

Something my previous employer never did. It was always AFTER the weekend or AFTER the holiday.

[Dusty1]

Capt Bubbles, I would also like to know:confused::confused:

[BritishGuy]

Keep 'yer heads up!

BBC News - Afghan rocket attack damages US army chief plane (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19325354)

[pole shift]

Bagram! We will soon start to fly there! New missions on the way! :uhoh:

[RavidDay]

BritishGuy. flydubai's highly accredited and profession Safety & Security Department have assessed that particular rocket attack as of no consequence, and they are vigilantly monitoring the situation using information supplied from reliable sources. With such cast iron assurances what could possibly go wrong ?!

[what-to-do]

Well, I make that three rocket attacks at three of four Afghanistan destinations, all of which have occurred in the last few months.

For some reason FZ think that this is an acceptable risk. Notice that the security brief mentions that the media has reported the recent rocket attack.... But our own safety dept. was unable to do so..... even with access to 'several reliable sources' as they claim.

Note that the same reliable sources of intel were unable to confirm any of the last two rocket attacks......

I'm sorry, but how can a rocket attack not be a threat to security? :ugh:

[RavidDay]

what-to-do. FZs Black-Ops Dept, and his 'reliable sources', have a 100% success record in failing to forewarn or prevent any rocket attacks. By burying or ignoring those same attacks, it certainly helps the profitability of the airline as well as helping to keep certain persons employed... and that retirement ranch needs to be paid for somehow!

[Tolerant Dubai]

Well, I guess we have a choice, as the 'Spaceman' put it rather eloquently....... Fly to Afghanistan or leave the company.

The latest security briefs, whilst a step in the right direction, are still rather worrying. I have no confidence in the so called 'reliable sources' used by the security department, and even less confidence in the man at the helm either.

[DucknDive]

Yes! Another reasuring report from our safety department!

You will no doubt be aware that the media has recently reported a rocket attack at Bagram Airbase during the night on a recent visit by the chairman of US Joint Chiefs of Staff. We have assessed this incident and do not believe that this affects the security review.

We believe! :D

Really makes you wonder what actually would affect any security review in this company......

[DucknDive]

Well yes, we have the choice, fly to Afganistan or leave the company but when joining many of us specificly queried about war zone operations and the company said that it would NEVER happen. Now we are becoming a military charter company.

Looking back I would never have signed a 3 year bond if I knew what I know now.

[pole shift]

DucknDive I would agree with you. As more aircraft are coming then we would have a problem as to where these aircraft would fly. No India, no more GCC destinations, perhaps 1-2 more Russian if we get traffic rights, and Europe? Skopje was the latest so next could it be Tirana? (Albania). There are more bases we could fly in Afghanistan (Mazar el Sharif) so apparently that is what is happening :ok:

[skysod]

Flydubai hiring DECs once again for limited time only!

[Tolerant Dubai]

How can a start up (ish) airline have unexpected expansion? Surely if the aircraft orders are already in place, it shouldn't really be unexpected.

Therefore the recent announcement for DECs at FZ is more probably due to a pilot shortage, rather than unexpected expansion!

Still, if it makes you happy..... WOW, we didn't see that coming. :ok:

[Son of the soil]

Excuse me to ask for numbers they wish to hire.. and if it a good job why are pilots leaving the airline and which numbers are leaving?

[TakeItEasy]

I am type-rated 737 CP with a lot of hours. If I would have the choice btw QR or FZ, what would be advisable? I would be looking for ish 7 years staying in Dubai or Qatar. Anyone a professional and honest opinion???

[Tolerant Dubai]

I suggest you read all the threads concerning FZ and Qatar and make your mind up. There's enough on here to see what the general mood is at both airlines.

Personally, I have friends in Qatar and I work in FZ..... given the choice, I wouldn't touch either. However, like most things in life, it's a personal choice...

[voodo wing man]

I worked for FZ for 2 years.Now I am in Qatar.Dubai is much better to live,but here you may save more money and it is not soo terrible...make your choice...

[Flat Cap]

I'm with you Tolerant Dubai, given a choice between FZ and QR I think I would pick EY.

Once upon a time I was giving a qualified positive about FZ (look back in the this thread), but over the course the last 6mo that has changed and can do so no longer. Do not, I say again, do not join FZ unless you are unable to secure a toilet cleaners job back home.

With the possible exception of the Flight Ops managers that do at least seem to care and want to make the company better, but are blocked and pretty well powerless to implement any sort of meaningful change. Across the board FZ as a company is failing it's flightcrews on a daily basis.

HR seems to go out of its way to undermine demotivate staff by avoiding their responsibilities is there is even half a chance to do so.

Safety and Security are neither safe nor secure. FZ has Bastion, Kandarhar, Kabul, Bagram, Damascus and Aleppo all on its books at the moment. Aircraft have been dispatched into live fire war zones, been on the ground during rocket attacks. Had to depart while areas within 3 miles of the end of one of the runways are being shelled. The only time flights have been cancelled is when airport staff have been unable to pass through the front lines to be able to do the ground handling. On each occasion the threat is assessed as tolerable, and not directly affecting FZ operations. Places that have been considered as future destinations Mosul, Mazar i Sharif, Mogadishu. All the high spots.

You don't get a choice you go there or you resign.

Commercial run the place, they will select destinations and the flight times with complete impunity. Flight too long for that deep night duty period? Don't worry we will just reduce the block times and send you anyway, we know you'll want to get home and use your discretion.

Which brings us nicely to rostering...oh I forgot there isn't any. 5/2 for three and a half months not so uncommon. There are fortunate souls out there that do better, but its pot luck. 18-30 rest periods not unusual. mornings to nights and back to mornings, body clock everywhere, landing at 5:30am on your third deep night on your 6th duty day. All perfectly legal of course.

"Ah!" Say those prospective FO's but what about the quick command. The current FO's were told 12 months, for some it has been 26 already, and still counting. New joiners are told 2yrs, it will be more than that. Unless there is a flood of exiting Capts. which is an might be a possibility as the initial hire guy reach 3yrs. So as long as you get through the process, by no means guaranteed, it is as advanced rocketship 737 you'll be flying, so the NASA Self-Study Command Course and testing program is a vital sifting tool to thin the ranks a bit. Then for added First Officer motivation, and despite it being the declared aim for over 2yrs for it not to happen, after a 2month stoppage DEC recruitment begins again.

I hate to be the harbinger of doom, but if you come you need to come with your eyes wide open, and with a Plan B. Don't get yourself trapped here, if you can help it.

Keep safe when your out there team, your on your own.

F-C

[Guided accordingly]

... To Flat cap !

Guys, in 3 yrs, this is the most accurate summation of fz I have read.

If you're thinking of coming here and have just read the above, do yourself a favour, read it again and consider your options carefully.

[Tolerant Dubai]

BRAVO :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[what-to-do]

Interesting......

BROWN v. CONTINENTAL AIRLINES INC, No. 10 (http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-5th-circuit/1574571.html)

[Guided accordingly]

Syrian Rebels Threaten Civilian Flights to Halt Weapons - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-08-31/syrian-rebels-threaten-civilian-flights-to-halt-weapons)

[Tolerant Dubai]

So the COO is on long term sick leave and it seems from the above post that the CP is out of theatre fighting legal action in the US. The term rudderless springs to mind. Never mind, HR will ome to the rescue ....

[Amdram]

Respect for life to the person who enquiries about his appeals proceedings at the next CP meeting.....!

Amazing, first chief gets into court bother with a former f/o and the second with former employer.

Don't they have enough to worry about in the top job without these hanging over their heads????!

[ManaAdaSystem]

FZ must be making a bundle of money on these flights? Are the loads really that good?
Doesn't the insurance companies have a thing or two to say about FZ flying into high risk areas?
And how will your personal insurance company react if you get killed or wounded in one of these areas? LoL insurance? Most insurances have a clause or two about not being valid if you are in a war area.
Have FZ adressed these issues?

[DucknDive]

Unplanned expansion!? Thats the official reason for accepting dec applications for the moment, however the truth behind it is that so many captains are resigning that we are running short.

What Flat Cap wrote is the reality of working in FZ. As I mentioned before, I would never ever recommend someone to join here and as my 3 years are almost up I will leave asap!

[TakeItEasy]

Thanx for all the answers until now. I was reading every single page about all three main ME Airlines and FZ also. The problem is EY is not looking for non-rated Captains (I am 737 rated only), so I will have to choose btw QR or FZ.

[DucknDive]

TakeItEasy,

Lifestyle is clearly better in Dubai vs Doha but hard choice between the companies. We are all hoping FZ will improve one day, sadly I just don´t see it anymore....

[falcon10]

What are they looking for in terms of experience? I exceed all their requirements by a lot but got the no thanks email a few days after applying. I tried again using different email address etc and same thing.

[skysod]

Falcon10, don't think they select on flying qualifications only, but are also profiling applicants in some way to determine if they are likely to want to stay for the long term! Exactly how they do that is anyone's guess!

[6000PIC]

It never ceases to amaze me how seemingly intelligent and informed flight crew continue to swarm to such a poorly run "airline ". Tough lesson to learn.

[skysod]

Flydubai now offering to buy back Captains' leave for October, but only at normal pay rate!

[Tolerant Dubai]

At the normal rate is about right! Even when faced pilot shortages, FZ try to resolve it with their usual inability....

They are buying back leave due to unexpected expansion, and that, coupled with unexpected pilot recruitment and unexpected need for more training captains..... Leaves FZ in a rather unexpected mess.......

Unless you're a pilot at FZ, who quite frankly have been predicting this unexpected mess for some time..... :mad:

[IThoughtTheredBeFood]

Even at the normal rate is double time isn't it, unless you don't get paid leave! The shower across the water did the same last year.

[ex-XL]

The leave buy-back deal being offered is based on the daily rate of the Basic Salary only.

It does not include any additional contribution towards the housing allowance, or any additional contribution towards the transport allowance, and whilst volunteers would get flight pay for their block-hours, there is no guarantee that they will be rostered for long flights and instead they can probably expect lots of ****ty little short flights.

[Comanche]

Thinking of applying as DEC, although I am not entirely convinced in view of the fairly negative feedback on this forum. Some questions that I have not seen covered:

-are most days 2 sector days?
-what is the average for monthly duty hrs?
-taking into account the full package, maybe one would be better off starting with EK as a FO?
-is the contract permanent or initially three years?

[Iver]

Are all flights out-and-back or do FlyDubai provide limited layovers for pilots? Mate of mine took a flight out of DXB to Dhaka that departed at something like 3AM and arrived mid-morning into Dhaka. Do the FlyDubai pilot complete the return flight after that sector? That's roughly 2,000 miles and a killer departure time - talk about exhausting...:yuk:

So, if you are one of the pilots on that Dhaka roundtrip, how soon after that trip would you be flying again? Next day (maybe another evening departure)? 2 days later?

[Amdram]

Iver, the specific flight you mention is currently the only flight that we do as a nightstop. We arrive around 11am local and depart about 25 hours later.

[DucknDive]

-Most days are 2 sectors.

-Average for me is around 70 h, we`ll see, short of skippers for the moment so might increase.....

-I would defenately go for EK in the right seat looking back, even tried but FZ block you for 3 years......... Better longterm for sure.

-Permanent contract with a 3 year bond.

Go for EK or EY.

[Alaska737]

I will just give the facts. The norm is about 70-75hrs per month with minimum days off. You are not rewarded for picking up trips on your days off with subsequent extra days. You cannot exceed 85 hours per month by trip trades, and at 850 annual hours you are also stopped from all trip trading. You can request 2 days off each month, although not guaranteed due to seniority and they cannot be grouped at end/start of each month. Fatiguing duties have been a major focus, but I hear fewer complaints on the line. Preferential bidding has been confirmed, but no date given.

Can anyone else advise on the unplanned expansion? I suspect due to the Afgan cargo company collapse, but hearsay is a dangerous thing.

[Comanche]

EK may be better long-term, but long time for command probably 7 years now, unless I get in DEC but little chance with no wide body or training experience. LCC in Europe is often 4 sectors with a lot of repetitive rotations, which causes extreme boredom and fatigue. Both EK and EY I hear do not even allow any personal electronic devices on the flight deck (Ipads etc) and if my source is correct EY do not even allow any reading material other than ops manuals or charts.

The package offered with FlyDubai is not among the best. The attraction for me is living in DXB and having good schools for the kids. In other words, I'd probably rather do LCC 2 sector days/nights in the ME rather than LCC 4 sector days in Europe, although the pension is better in Europe.

Ref leave, do the 42 days attract any wrap around days? So if you book say 14 days, do you get only 14 days or 14 days + your normal days offs either end?

[Sciolistes]

The package offered with FlyDubai is not among the best.
What better deals are out there for a narrowbody FO?

[RandyBMC]

EY have narrow bodies (A320), there are many far east carriers with better packages. Air Arabia is better, even Qatar has narrow bodies and the package is better.

There are benefits at flydubai, mostly being the crew that we fly with. Great group! Hopefully, management will soon do something to prevent attrition and attract quality new pilots. The current trend is not a good indicator of that however. I hope things change.

Here's how I see what could be done to change the culture:

Split the flight crew from the rest of the employee group from an HR standpoint. There is no need to treat pilots like the entire employee group. If the pilot group needs a pay raise to be competitive with the marketplace, or to cope with operations that are more challenging than other airlines, it shouldn't have to wait for the whole employee group getting a pay raise. Likewise, quality of life should not be compared to office workers, as we are in a different operating arena with different responsibilities.

Related to pay, develop a yearly rate that is transparent to all so pilots and their families can make plans, and rates are not arbitrary. This would be the easiest way to abolish the current pay scale structure which really doesn't make sense. If cost of living goes up, there should be a raise tied to this at year end, and can be evaluated by HR comparing basic necessities such as milk, fuel, education and housing year on year.

Allow pilots more control over the roster. This can be done by line bidding, PBS, more RDO selections, less restriction on trading parameters, or a combination of these. Also, on the subject of rosters, stop violating the language of OMA section 7 with regard to rostering flights with rest periods of 18-30 hours.

Related to rosters and dove-tailing with safety/security, allow folks that fly into danger zones to be additionally compensated for this flying. Simultaneously, allow for specific bidding of these flights. I know there are plenty of pilots willing to fly these trips for the money, and it would empower the pilot group and remove animosity from the people not comfortable with these flights. We would all have to have some flexibility for standbys, but if the above were put in place, I'm sure that leeway would be much easier to come.

Develop a structured, transparent, scheduled and honest communication means from both Flight Operations and Safety. The structure for this is just about in place with CP meetings and the reports available on EFOS, so it would only be a matter of changing the culture a bit. Safety needs to become a pillar, and should err on the conservative side - we should lead the region, not be reactionary.

Develop the upgrade program to the required crew levels by having a pipeline of qualified candidates ready for training. Pool applicants if necessary, but have them ready to start training to avoid the need for DECs. The whole process should be streamlined through he use of an upgrade coordinator, which could come from the FO ranks (I'm sure someone would gladly volunteer to assist his fellow pilots, and of course himself in the process).

These are only a few ideas that have been formed into formal suggestions. Even if only a couple came about, it would be a good spin of the rudder away from the falls (meaning a step in the right direction). There are certainly more, but these are my best idea on how to start changing the culture and truly make flydubai the "Southwest of the Middle East".

I only post this in an effort to help and perhaps show some of the ideas guys from the line are tossing around in the flight deck.

Randy

[Flat Cap]

Amen to that, Randy. From your lips to God's ears.

My breath remains resolutely unheld!

F-C

[RavidDay]

FZs Black-Ops Dept has issued a memo, regarding flights into and out of DAMascus, stating that the safety & security of such flights hinges on the guy at the airport saying that it's safe. This is the same guy that does flydubai's handling at that airport, though suggestions about a "conflict of interest" are being strongly denied.

The Black-Ops Dept memo also mentions 'other security advisors', though not one of those 'other' sources has ever been named or divulged. Aircrew must trust to the integrity & professionalism of the Black-Ops Dept that these 'other sources' are reliable enough to stake their life upon the outcome.

Black-Ops Dept assures that DAMascus International Airport is nowhere near any of the fighting, but their memo does not comment on what is in place to stop the Free Syrian Army from coming within firing range of an aircraft and launching one off?!

Parking on the ramp in DAMascus is not without risk, but being attacked whilst on the approach or departure is what worries aircrews the most. It is 100% certain that the Black-Ops Dept is unable to predict or prevent any such attack.

News channels are reporting that the Free Syrian Army does have surface to air missiles - scroll to 1' 42" Obama directs CIA to support Syrian rebels - YouTube

[Ali Ronn]

RandyBMC

I'm sure the irony is not lost on you that the chasm between the utopia you envisage and the cultural environment that we find ourselves in, is the very same that causes you - with some frustration I imagine - to make these suggestions on a forum such as this, instead of delivering them into the open arms of the Company.

No need to go as high as God's ears Flat Cap, mere mortals could fix this.

Until then, I suppose the attrition meetings will continue.

Last one out - don't forget to shut the door.

[FZckntkawrap]

Ali,

I clearly read the irony, partial sarcasm, but wanted to say this those who might miss it: No pilot at flydubai has VOLUNTEERED more of his time than Randy to make this place better for all here now and those that follow after most of us eventually leave. Yes, the ACP has tried as well from the inside to change things, but Randy's efforts are pretty much unpaid on his days off compiling all such complaints as you could imagine from every pilot that wanted to participate in a survey on what NEEDs to be improved and would be nice to have improved. All of this information is there for the company, no one is hiding it from them lol! But I agree, why take action when all the middle managers can continue to have nice chats about why the pilots complain so much. Its easier to simply do nothing but have more meetings, and a picnic where you ask your employees to VOLUNTEER more time and personal resource because the company is too cheap to get it catered properly.

[Alaska737]

I applaud your efforts to help make some changes, and I can imagine your great frustration at these things falling on deaf ears. Starting at the end of this year there will be larger numbers of crew who will be out of their bond period and the true haemorrhaging will begin. Prior to that time the EK transfer was a good option even with bond repayment, however more and more guys now realize that joining the back of the queue at EK at this point would not serve their career as it would have last year. Anyone with recall rights should consider their fate here if they give up those options, an escape to a home based carrier with perks is always a better option than the uncertainty here.

[Boeing Europe]

Does anyone know if they will get really short of FO's when the bonds expire I have 1200TT and 900 737NG really want to get to DXB so would love to work here , anyone know the chances of me getting in below the minimum...?

[VaniosLenos]

IMHO the company knows that more pilots will be heading towards the ME. One has to look into the European economic crisis, the collapse of airlines every month and the job security you can have in the ME. Out of that pool of pilots some will end up in FZ.
For as long as the company can man the airplanes then I doubt if we could expect any improvements. The good thing is that there is the will, at least as it is expressed in the Chief pilot meetings, for things to change.

[Ali Ronn]

No sarcasm intended. I think Mr BMC has done a great job too. I am only sad that the effort was, perhaps, for nothing.

[Flat Cap]

It's a far easier thing to have weekly meetings all about pilot attrition and chat earnestly over coffee and baklava than actually do something, if you do something it might be the the wrong something, or worse yet actually cost something. Once of course you have set aside the hidden cost of the endless Forth Bridge exercise of training new guys as the attrition rate cranks up passed 12% pa and moves ever closer to 15% pa, it is far far easier to do fcek all, and mutter darkly about the outrageous salaries and the generous number of days-off of the prima-donna FZ pilots. As we know this year is all about showing that profit nothing else matters far too many careers and bonuses hinge on it.

Randy is doing a sterling job and the flat cap is doffed in salute and respect of a thankless and Promethean job undertaken with great resolution and professionalism. I commend him.

Your right Ali Ronn, mere mortals could easily do the resolve it, not at all rocket science get the life-style right get the pay right and you have a happy workforce and attrition of 2 or 3%. Unfortunately there are none so deaf as those the do not wish too hear, and none so blind as those that do wish to see. This seems cover most anyone with any wasta within the company. Divine intervention may well be required. I expect no change until we start parking aeroplanes, which will probably require no more 737 operator collapses anywhere in the world for about 6 months.

Yours resignedly

F-C

PS. Just read the latest Damascus "security" brief. So a group that has declared a credible threat against civilian aircraft, has the motivation, skills, equipment and infrastructure to deliver on that threat in a "war zone", sorry "area of conflict" oops no that was last week "area of disagreement" :hmm: that's the one, is in fact not threat to to aviation at all! The risk is tolerable and everyone promises, scout's honour not to shoot anyone, so long as the DAM station manager says its ok. Obviously the man's a security genius with 20/20 foresight and far better judge of the situation than say ohh the FCO?. :mad:

[freightpuppy]

I am scheduled for a screening shortly at CTC for FD B737 Captain.Can someone please help me out in giving some information in detail regarding the process and what to generally expect.I apologize if this has been covered before.

[cmcjma]

DucknDive said: Looking back I would never have signed a 3 year bond if I knew what I know now

I may join FlyDubai, what do you know that will change your decision regarding flights to Afghanistan ?

Thanks DucknDive

[Alaska737]

Just sign here! Preferably in blood. 3 years no pro-rate, thats all, so don't say we didn't tell you the truth. When we thought everyone had access to newspapers, you come along. Great! Do you have anyone else in your family that can fly? Or just from your town will do?

[cmcjma]

Alaska737, that was not my question.
There is a bond. I know the written conditions. Let the decision on me.
I would like to know what is not written...

The concerned post and my question was about Afghanistan flights. It seems there is some dangerousity about the operations. At least, it is what I have understood.
Give me some facts. That is what I need to take a good (CRM?) decision.

Your opinion is valuable, but again let the decision on me.
Thank you.

[BritishGuy]

Cmcjma, here is your answer. Hot off the press (as of 15th Sept 2012)...... Can't get anymore current news than this. Sorry.

BBC News - Camp Bastion assault: Two US marines die in 'Taliban revenge' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19608561)

[Tolerant Dubai]

Not sure what it is you're actually asking!

As for the 'dangerousity' of the Afghanistan routes, just read the news papers and you will see that most of the destinations that FZ operates into, are in fact military installations that are being attacked on a regular basis, and subsequently, people are being killed...... thats pretty dangerousity to me.

You don't need CRM to help make that decision, just common sense. Leave it to the military pilots and stick to the regular fee paying passengers.... it makes life hell of a lot easier.

One more thing, FZ doesn't even have the foresight to compensate it's pilots for the added risk either..... :=

[skysod]

FD A/C returned from Bastion yesterday and within hours the base was attacked with a number of fatalities!

[ex-XL]

A lot more too this than flydubai have told their crews.

From an International Security Assistance Force Joint Command News Release

KABUL, Afghanistan, Sept. 15, 2012 – International Security Assistance Force officials are providing additional details about the Sept. 14 attack on Camp Bastion in Afghanistan’s Helmand province in which two coalition service members were killed when insurgents attacked the base’s airfield.

Because it is still early in the investigation of this attack, information is subject to change as new details become available, officials said.

The attack commenced just after 10 p.m., officials said, when approximately 15 insurgents executed a well-coordinated attack against the airfield on Camp Bastion. The insurgents, organized into three teams, penetrated at one point of the base’s perimeter fence, officials said.

The insurgents appeared to be well-equipped, trained and rehearsed, officials said. Dressed in U.S. Army uniforms and armed with automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenade launchers and suicide vests, the insurgents attacked coalition fixed- and rotary-wing aircraft parked on the flight line, aircraft hangars and other buildings, officials said.

Six coalition AV-8B Harrier jets were destroyed and two were significantly damaged, said officials, noting three coalition refueling stations were destroyed. Six soft-skin aircraft hangars were damaged to some degree.

Coalition forces engaged the insurgents, killing 14 and wounding one who was taken into custody, officials said.

In addition to the two coalition service members that were killed, nine coalition personnel -- eight military and one civilian contractor -- were wounded in the attack, officials said. None of their injuries are considered life-threatening.

[Spit The Dummie]

ex-XL, they cancelled the following Camp Bastion flight and the Safety & Security Dept issued a memo about that attack. It is thin on facts but promises to tell us more once all of the facts are known, or that they have had a chance to dress it up as "just them pesky darn Taliban doing it to annoy us gee shucks".

We are constantly told the 'situation' is being 'closely monitored', using information provided by US Air Farce 'Intelligence', as well as Security risk companies, and personnel stationed on the ground, plus other undisclosed 'reliable sources' - which is probably no more than the bloke who cleans the toilets at the airport - but not one of them has been able to predict or prevent an attack. This speaks volumes about their 'intelligence' and its total lack of reliability.

The Spaceman also has several memos to his name, assuring crews about how the perimeter security at these airfields far exceeds ICAO standards, and that the distance from any city, and the wide open space around these airports, and the roaming patrols of hundreds of soldiers, and the 24 hour rocket attack detection radar, and the mine fields, all provide additional perimeter security, and that being attacked, or injured, or maimed, or killed, is highly unlikely!

Unfortunately the Taliban do not read his works of fiction and so they blew a hole through the perimeter at Camp Bastion, then stormed onto the airfield with guns & rockets blazing, and were quite prepared to die themselves!

The Taliban Attack On Camp Bastion - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/the-taliban-attack-on-camp-bastion-2012-9)

ISAF provides additional details on Camp Bastion attack (http://www.isaf.nato.int/article/isaf-releases/isaf-provides-additional-details-on-camp-bastion-attack.html)

[MerAir80]

Hi guys,

One of the requirements as NTR FO is :
"At least 1,000 hours on modern (EFIS), multi-crew, multi-engine aircraft over 10 tonnes operating weight (preference will be given to those with PIC time)".

I have 5700h flown on MD82 as FO. Do I suit that since the MD82 might not be considered as equipped with EFIS (modern generation EFIS is what I mean)?

Any help about that would be appreciated. Anyone with such a doubt?

Thanks in advance.


Happy Landings

[Tolerant Dubai]

Have you considered calling the company and asking? Just a thought.....

[MerAir80]

Tolerant Dubai,

Are you kidding me?

Awaiting for a better (someone else) THOUGHT.



Cheers.

[what-to-do]

Have you considered calling the company?

[Kabul 1]

Call the company..
Why not?
It s really the best way
As they are changing the rules constantly
Good luck

[MerAir80]

Already tried to call but no way to be in touch with them.
That's why I asked to shed some light on that.

[Old King Coal]

MerAir80 - I assume you are aware that all flydubai assessments are conducted in the UK by a company called CTC Aviation (http://www.ctcaviation.com/clients/flydubai). Have you tried calling them (http://www.ctcaviation.com/about_us/contact)?

Or why don't you simply apply (online (http://flydubai.ctcaviation.com)) and then wait and see if you get invited for an assessment?

[ualgrizz]

"US Air Farce 'Intelligence' "

Getting a bit personal are we Spit the Dummie...aka A$$wipe. What kind of street-cred do you have to make such a stupid statement? Sounds like too much time in front of the tube watching "Pussy Galore". Mate if you are bent out of shape flying to hot areas, just go to the office and tell them you have a problem with your genitals. I'm sure the guys will understand. We have ladies that will do it.

Have a nice day, Grizz

[Spit The Dummie]

17th Sep 2012 21:08
Posted by: ualgrizz

Dummie or whatever / "US Air Farce 'Intelligence' "

Getting a bit personal are we Spit the Dummie...aka A$$wipe. What kind of street-cred do you have to make such a stupid statement? Sounds like too much time in front of the tube watching "Pussy Galore". Mate if you are bent out of shape flying to hot areas, just go to the office and tell them you have a problem with your genitals. I'm sure the guys will understand. We have ladies that will do it.

Have a nice day, Grizz

ualgrizz: I am rather surprised at you resorting to name calling (A$$wipe ?!) - did they teach you that skill in the Air Farce Academy?! - but I suppose the truth often hurts, and it stung you into a puerile rant, plus a misplaced defence for your ex-airfarce Spaceman buddy?! And all of which is even more surprising when you yourself have confessed that he is an idiot! Now no doubt in a show of great brother-in-arms integrity, you will of course deny this to his face, but at least WE know the truth about how you feel. Let's call it our little secret shall we?! ;)

By the way - and this will probably be something of a 'face-palm' moment for you (JohnA) - it is not very 'intelligent' to use the same handle, or your real name, or your real email address(es), on various other Bulletin Boards, as this almost certainly proves the quote by Groucho Marx that "Military intelligence is a contradiction in terms", and we can now say that this also seems to be true even for ex-military - doh! :E

Duck&Dive!

[4HolerPoler]

Chill please guys; it's a hot topic but keep calm & quit name-calling or you'll find yourself in the cooler.

[wingletflyer]

Some B737-800 operators in Shenzen, China are providing quite high and acceptable accident and medical insurance in spite of "LOW RISK" operation enviroment:

Donghai Airlines, China (http://jobs.flightglobal.com/job/1401349111/b737-captain-donghai-airlines-182-000-usd-year-net-/?deviceType=Desktop&cmpid=EMC%7cJOBS%7cNSJOB-Jobsbyemail&utm_source=jbe&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2012-07-19&ProcessedTrackID=74866)

Insurance: Donghai will provide accident insurance for pilot with 1.5 million USD, , and medical insurance with 0.5 million USD

Considering some combat zones flydubai is flying, the management should revise the insurance and medical policy upwards with no additional cost for the drivers and offer commuting opportunity.

[rkramer787]

CTC & PILAPT assessment gouge (flydubai). Cheers!

http://www.pdfhost.net/index.php?Action=DownloadFile&id=201ca543786b8327571c3780df9b8de5

[Spit The Dummie]

I could hardly invent a better example to prove my previously made points: Syrian Gunship Helicopter in Mid-Air Collision With Passenger Airliner | Damascus News (http://english.cri.cn/6966/2012/09/20/3241s723335.htm)

FZckntkawrap - I see that the Moderator deleted your post and also those of ualgrizz, though both your objections and commentary have been noted.

Now here's some food for thought...

You certainly cannot ignore the FACT that the Taliban have been brazen enough to 'successfully' attack one of the most heavily defended airbases in Afghanistan.

In spite of all of the Coalition's resources, and 'intelligence' - plus reassurances from certain dodgy 'veterans' inside various airlines, that attacks like this were highly unlikely even at these war zone airports :rolleyes: - it seems that nobody saw this attack coming - doh! - and that surely speaks volumes, doesn't it?!

And today, in Damascus (which is another flydubai war-zone destination), a military helicopter, conducting live-fire military operations only moments previously, was involved in a mid-air collision with a civilian passenger airliner.

This seems very much at odds with the notice we were issued, only a couple of weeks ago, in which we were basically told that "flying into Damascus is not the slightest bit dangerous" and that they are "closely monitoring the situation".

But, yet again, they failed to predict that anything could go wrong (in a war zone situation, with live fire occurring within very close proximity - doh?!!!!).

So putting all this together, we can only deduce that there is obviously something very wrong with their crystal ball and / or with their 'intelligence', is there not?!

As a licensed Commander, of a civilian airliner, you should think very carefully about your culpability, accountability, and liability (legal & otherwise) and, with all due respect to certain veterans, this is not some gung-ho game being played out between civilian aircraft and fighter jets or military helicopters manned by military jocks !

I would ask just how much more evidence is required to convince people that this war zone type flying is not safe, and that it should never have been allowed in the first place. Imho, some serious questions need to be asked about the integrity & abilities of those who are authorising this fiasco. :mad:
.

[Tolerant Dubai]

:D:D:D:D

This has been predicted by the pilots here at FZ for some time. We have all known that this sort of thing could indeed occur, and now it has.... what a shock! :\

All the 'monitoring' in world can't prevent this from happening again.... common sense, however, could.

[onvacation]

Resign then!

[spanishfly69]

I did resign

[what-to-do]

Having read some of your other posts, which lets be honest, are quite negative about FZ, you have the nerve to say resign!

Is it fair to ask if you did?

Telling someone to resign is a rather cheap shot, especially if their concerns are regarding flight safety, which is in stark contrast to a number of your complaints regarding T & C's......

[onvacation]

Fair enough. I'm definitely negative about Flydubai, but when some meathead names someone on a forum and makes a stupid blanket statement...then I think he deserves the comment!

Flydubai is crazy to send airplanes into some of the places they are going!

Their scheduling department is vindictive and completely incompetent!

I am already finished!

Good luck!

[wingletflyer]

I fully support the post from what-to-do.
If onvacation would write his last post instead of blantly one word: resign, it would make more sense at the first place..

Yes there is only one way to make FZ understand and correct the way they proceed: Resign or better do not start at all.

[Alaska737]

Anyine that says this option is so easy is only kidding them self, as they forget that we are bonded for upto $36,000 for 3 years. Do you think it's fair to just say resign when you have a family to support and a massive debt hanging over you? Having recall rights and contract expiry approaching for many of us makes things so much easier.

[ualgrizz]

STD (No, not what you are thinking):

I am impressed that you took the time to watch Gen. Welsh...good on you! If what he said will not move you...nothing I will either...you will never understand people like me. Which is fine...my expectations are low. In contrast, I am not moved by atheism or pacifism, but I will not get on a public forum and bash their groups/organizations not knowing what they are all about...less I expect to be "b1tch slapped"!

What is taught at the "Zoo" other than physics, chemistry, astro, aero, any kind of math imaginable, and geopolitical issues? Believe it or not, diplomacy, I didn't do so well in the course. Hence, that's why I only said, "A$$wipe"(by the way what's so different between Spaceman and A$$wipe?). My buddies with funny names like Buford, Sheik, Stalker, Guns, Boots, Torch, Spike and "Bug" (maybe you know him) would have used many more colorful 4 letter words in their diatribe.

Moreover, putting a bar conversation on a public forum is also in bad taste. But that's OK, I am sure I said what I said and unlike some I'm not hiding behind a keyboard...I don't remember the conversation and I don't know who you are (let's keep it that way). However, you did not discuss the context in which I described our mutual friend (eg wearing an inappropriate uniform on the flight deck and speaking to crowd about "flying" the F-16 and F-15). I would not brow beat him about his job...nor should you, unless you know all of the pertinent issues. I don't know all of the contextual elements that he deals with or his pressures...and you probably don't either. I do know that I would not want to be in his position. Perhaps, like you and the guy from LA, he wants to keep his job (not arguing right or wrong here)...did you tell the CP or the DFO you are not going to fly to the hotspots because it is too dangerous. If not, do you expect him to go to the CEO and say, "I will quit unless you cease ops to Kabul or Damascus"? I don't believe his are the final decisions on said issues. More importantly, if not for him, I think we would be going to Mogadishu...think about that while you are playing tiddly-winks.

I hope we have an agreement in principle...I will not call you an "A$$wipe" if you don't insult my legacy institutions. Or next time, I will forward your insults to my friends with the funny names:eek:

Have a nice day, Grizz

[what-to-do]

Translators required, to apply, post your CV on this thread! :rolleyes:

[DucknDive]

Just looked at my October roster. Does anyone know where to buy a bulletproof vest???

Last CP meeting :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Will hopefully be leaving this CIRCUS soon.

[Boeing Europe]

For DE FO 737 rated??

[dash8pilotCanada]

From their website:

All pilots

Fluent in English to ICAO level 4 or above.
Hold a ICAO ATPL certificate.
Hold a 1st Class Medical certificate from ICAO.
Eligible for a UAE residency visa.

[jamesIST]

I think its a GCAA requirement. Unless you are a local then you have to have the full ATPL.

[airbusa320pro]

rkramer787 MANY THANKS FOR THE POST.:ok:

Sorry that u didn't make it or maybe it's FZ's bad luck. But you surely did answer a lot of Qs being asked on this post.:D

All the best for the future. Cheers !!:ok:

[rkramer787]

You are most welcome. I hope some good comes from it.

[Tolerant Dubai]

I'm guessing 778...... unless it's a trick question? :)

[dash8pilotCanada]

Hello All,

Has anyone passed the screening phase of the application and getting an error message when trying to book an interview?

[Dusty1]

For rkramer 787

Brilliant post on the CTC assessment day1. I am almost certain I was on the same selection day than you? (I am the South African).

You have captured my thoughts on the selection proses exactly.

A must read for anyone considering an assessment at CTC

:D

[rkramer787]

Dash8: I did not get an error msg, but their system is quite bad, in my opinion. That's not exactly true, if you remember the pm I sent you. Based on what I have seen, I doubt they care to make it run smoothly.

Dusty: I was wondering if any of you would weigh in. Glad you like it and agree. Many have agreed with it and I appreciate the validation my fellow pilots have shown.

[guest2054]

hi all. can anyone tell me how long it roughly takes to get a reply from CTC to attend a selection process as ive been waiting roughly three weeks now and i havent heard anything. Should i contact CTC and find out whats going on or just wait?

[Pussmoth]

I am currently a Captain on the 777s. Was contemplating a switch to FZ as DEC even if it meant a demotion in terms of equipment as I am not being paid my salary on time. There is a backlog of close to 6 months of salary. To add to this, my company is on the verge of a huge pay cut.

However, having gone through the forum, I guess I will have to reconsider my options. No point in going from a frying pan to fire. I wonder if anyone has anything good to say about FZ. If I am willing to give up on the 777s, FZ better be a really good company to work for... Request inputs from those in FZ... Captains preferably...

[Guided accordingly]

On a positive note, except one notable cock up ( fz blamed bank, bank blamed FZ ... whatever :E) The salary here has always been paid on time. :ok:

As for the rest... re read the above posts.

Rostering dept responsible for 95 % of issues. As always its promised to improve but, its unlikely. Folk here getting tired of empty promises.:hmm:

This months morale booster is that the trip trading function on The AIMS system has been virtually blocked.



( AIMS = Amazingly Incompetent Mindless Scheduling )

[Whoop Whoop Wake Up]

...And October's morale booster is that leave bidding has returned to the pre-AIMS system of blocks of 7 days always starting on a Tuesday!

Since AIMS cannot accommodate such a restrictive system, we have been told we are not allowed to use the 'anywhere in a period' option anymore.

They might as well throw AIMS in the bin as it is totally wasted here.

[Pussmoth]

Thanks for all your inputs...

[what-to-do]

Whoop whoop,

Isn't the current leave software the same as last years? As I understand it, it was bought by mistake and was not up to the job then...... I guess we have clearly decided to roll with it!

I love the fact that we have black out periods (weeks) just to make the system work......... square peg, round hole!:ugh:

Has anyone else come across such a convoluted system to book leave?

[Dune]

Has anyone else come across such a convoluted system to book leave?

Emirates

-One window of opportunity per year to attempt to get what you would want via "bid".

-One additional window of opportunity per year to attempt to get anything you could stomach given you didn't get anything that you wanted.

-Otherwise NOTHING AVAILABLE FOR THE ENTIRE YEAR (leave system totally locked with no leave showing available). This is for Captains; F/O's not so sure as we seem to have a bunch of them.

Then further into the year (when the company sees fit to burn off your leave as they now view your leave balance as "unacceptable") they will either open up a very short notice "leave available" period or otherwise force leave upon you (at dates/times of their choosing and many times in blocks of 4 days).

Nice when you have a "decree" company where you can write your own rules/change the rules at a whim (Emirates are not government employees and therefore do not have to abide by the government labor laws, nor a private company and therefore do not have to abide by the UAE labor laws).

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Guided, whoop whoop and others
Rule numbers
1. Any system is only good as the user.
2. Numbers numbers numbers (of crew)
3. The leave system has been "enhanced" - it does work at other airlines, you however have to test the set up, rules etc refer to rule No1 or possibly 2.

If someone at FZ is saying that AIMS is no good, well its been around for 30+ years, is used around the world. Yes it has its moments but;
Back to rule No1
:\

[wingletflyer]

Pussmoth,

Did you try THY?
I bet you will have better life style in Istanbul than Dubai not even mentioning the equipment and exotic! FZ destinations..

[Iver]

Pussmoth,

I agree with above post - definitely try DEC THY and not sure if Qatar still offer DEC. Otherwise, I would give EK and the other large UAE carrier a go even if it means FO slot - still better than your situation.

[VaniosLenos]

One just needs to read the thread about Turkish Airlines before making a decision...
FZ might have some issues (which airline doesn't have?) but at the end of the day is what you make of it...

[TakeItEasy]

How many hours is a Captain flying per year (average)?

[Alaska737]

Can anyone shed some light on the latest innovations?

[Flat Cap]

Good job a rocket attack on the airport doesn't affect flight safety or the inbound flight might not have been able to land there god forbid.

They will be telling us aircraft report being shot at weren't really being shot at all, they just happened to see people shooting things beneath them....oh no wait.

Fortunately all of these things are down to blind chance and are isolated incidents...all 12 of them, and entirely unrelated to any socio-political disagreements you may read about in the press. We shall all be taking holiday cruises down the Kabul River this time next year.

F-C

[DucknDive]

I lost my trust in the security department in FZ a long time ago. Only empty words just to keep the commercial department happy. I really do not feel safe in this airline due to the constant threat of many destinations we fly to.
I would think more than twice before signing a bond in FZ. There are many other options out there and I will resign asap due to warzone flights.

[Whoop Whoop Wake Up]

FC

I'm sure they don't even believe their own propaganda any more - the arguments that Afghanistan destinations are safe are so clearly untenable.

However, their good judgement and ability to acknowledge the evident danger are clouded by $

Until crews start being repatriated by medivac or in body bags and that cost is taken into account, the situation is, unfortunately, unlikely to change.

[skysod]

Don't think the latest ACN/initiative to increase revenue is likely to enhance our safety and security, and as for the knock on effect on retention/recruitment, let's not even go there!............me thinks this could well be the final straw for many at FDB! :eek:

[Aerofoil]

Well i know of one guy who has resigned in the last 24 hours!

[bailee atr]

What is the ACN initiative?

[Voodoo 3]

Well i know of one guy who has resigned in the last 24 hours!
Is that a result of the latest missive, roster, T's n C's? Also which seat? Can't afford to loose too many more from the left, light on numbers as it is.....

[ZAZOO]

Things gone real quiet down here.

Oh well silence they say is golden.

Fly Safe.

[Flat Cap]

..Or speaks volumes Zazoo.

We've lost the will to complain, and have fallen into a surly resentful silence.

:hmm:

[jimmyg]

Thought I would throw my hat in the ring to see what happens. 737 typed plenty of hours with what I feel is a pretty stellar career and background to boot. Not current on 73 as I am on the Bus now. Currently working and flying in the region.

Got turned down right out of the gate. They must have known I would never pay to come out to an interview with CTC.

[Iver]

jimmyg,

Perhaps a mixed blessing for you. Use your Bus rating and experience to get an interview at EK, QR, the other big UAE carrier or Air Arabia. From what I hear, Flydubai is nothing to cry over... :{:E:}

[jimmyg]

Yes defiantly, I am on shortlist @ EK

[bluesaddict]

I have been successful on the first screening part of FD selection but I'm not type-rated on the 737. Any one can shed some light on when will they interview non type-rated pilots?

Thanks,