Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged

[Voodoo 3]

PBS for me is an absolute dream though I don't tend to get 15 days off per month. Normally closer to 12/13 but then I don't bid for long flights. This month my earliest report is 0630 and aside from one flight, latest home is 2220 with NO overnights.

Yes, you've probably guessed I do have very high seniority and save a couple of standby's and one flight which I didn't request the entire month has the annotation R below each day, so requested duty.

For those that are bemoaning the fact that its alright for the chosen few who have seniority I would like to say this: Even the most junior pilot now has more control over when and where they work than even the most senior pilots had last year before PBS. The best we could manage was two days off in a row. Imagine if you had no control, then you are welcome to the often shocking rosters that we had to endure for over 4 YEARS!!!!! Every month you are getting more senior as more aircraft and pilots arrive and after one year there should be a definite improvement if you think you are getting bum rosters now.

To a degree the fault can lie with the individual for not bidding correctly. I have seen some terrible bidding and it is no result the the pilot ends up with such garbage. I put in about eight to ten bids with max priority four. The system can and does work no matter your seniority. If you are more junior then be more flexible and then as your seniority rises then you can be more specific and you should see a difference.

As others have mentioned above and I do know their seniority numbers, PBS can and does work. I've seen some schedules from junior pilots in both seats and yes it does work for them too.

As the email suggests - bid smart!!!

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Here are the latest figures for a New-hire Captain. It looks like the original joiners get a little more than the new guys in all the pay areas but not 12-13% less more like about 5%.

Captain:
Salary per month
Value in AED
Basic salary
25,225
Housing allowance
14,000
Transportation allowance
2,300
Variable Flying Pay *
(based on working an 80 hour month)
12,800
Projected Total
54,325

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Here are the FO pay rates

First Officer:
Salary per month
Value in AED
Basic salary
17,000
Housing allowance
12,000
Transportation allowance
1,700
Variable Flying Pay *
(based on working an 80 hour month)
9,200
Projected Total
39,900

[pole shift]

Voodoo 3
The reality is that low seniority pilots have absolutely no chance of getting a 'gentleman's' flight as is called.
It will always be night FRU, OSS, MUX, DOH, MCT, double sectors, etc. Never mind the annual leave.
What is the point of having an 'R' underneath my night TBS I wonder...
The pilots of the same company are called colleagues. They usually do the same work and earn the same or simillar living, given the same rank, especially in a new company. It changed here. Seniority can be rewarded in a different way, more salary, different scale, more annual leave, etc.
Not in expense of the days OFF of the other pilots. Everyone has a lifestyle, family, children, that they would like to spent weekends with, or see more often, or spent more time with, etc etc.
Fairness is the magic word. Alternating seniority in bidding can correct things I guess. But I guess high seniority guys wouldn't like to give it up...
But after all is not a fair world.

[spanishfly69]

Pole, Welcome to Airline World.

That is what it means when pilots say SENIORITY is EVERYTHING..

Like Bill Gates said "Life is not fair, get used to it"

[Voodoo 3]

Pole,

I do appreciate that all the flights must be covered and that includes all the night awfuls. Some people don't actually mind night flights and so do bid for them because then they have more chances of being awarded their OFF days. I can understand that low seniority pilots sometimes must feel they just get whats left but that is exactly what the highest senior pilots got even in September last year. We had no control over what we were rostered and the amounts of all nighters and 0120 four sector trips I did doesn't even bear thinking about. And yes, I've done all those you write about (before PBS ;))

You got an R under your TBS because something in your bid came under that schedule. I operated that trip some months ago even with my seniority before PBS so don't worry, the senior guys have done all these trips too.

If you can put up with a few flights that you may not like then I can be willing to bet that after only even one year, your seniority will have risen by enough with all the new joiners etc that you would see a noticeable difference in what you are awarded. I would suggest that you be far more flexible about where you go and a greater spread of times you are willing to depart in. If you are very rigid and the computer can not schedule your trip then it will bin off any other conflicting bids you have and then you WILL end up with whats left.

I saw the roster of one recently joined FO. He said he did some flexible bidding but ended up with a roster that he said he couldn't have written better himself. I'm not saying that will be the case for everyone every month but the feeling I get is that most people are happier with PBS than without it, at least you have MORE control than before!

Upstairs have decided it will be a seniority driven schedule and so live with the not so good for now, it will get better for you.:ok:

[what-to-do]

Pole shift,

What did it say on your FZ contract when you signed?

As mentioned earlier, you're doing nothing we haven't for last three/ four years. Flydubai is a seniority based airline, that isn't going to change i'm afraid.

I really don't see why a recently joined pilot should get all the benefits that it has taken three to four years for everybody else to achieve, during which time, many pilots had left because the rosters were so tough.

Hang in there, like all of us have!

[LostinT2DXB]

PS,

During the first two years of this airlines exsistence I would have agreed with your sentiments. Unfortunately though, about 2.5 years ago this pilot group stopped being "colleagues". The "I want mine now" group started buying rosters, or as you call it "privileged" rosters from the planning guys. Honestly I could not believe that was happening until one day I found a printed copy of a DECs roster. This guy had been with FZ maybe six months, but his roster had two commutable periods of time off, long stretches of 6 days off WITHOUT trip trades. All the while the guys who started this airline, the guys who flew the 25 hour rosters, sat 10 standbys a month for almost the first year of operations, were getting 8 days off with AM/PM shift changes in the SAME block of flights. Maybe one day when the airline stops growing something might change, but for now it is what it is and for good reason.

[Jack330]

The only big issue with flydubai is that silly rule that is allowing the first officers to keep their seniority even after they've been upgraded as captains.
I've never heard such thing before, it doesn't exist in any other serious company...Common sense dictate that once you pass your command upgrade (that in Flydubai is quite easy) then you pass behind.....If they keep this rule for the future upgrades they will loose all their valuable and experienced captains because they will never have the chance to become senior, never until the upgraded fo's are in the company....

[Vortac1]

Im not sure I follow. You are saying that FOs that upgrade should lose their seniority and go back to "Year 1" seniority right after upgrade?

If thats the case, it would be the first time I hear of such a move in any company.

[Jack330]

I'm not talking about losing all your seniority but usually, once you become captain, you go back in the captain seniority list and then go up in that list.. Like it happened to us in USA, you enter a new list behind all the captains...
I am sure, only in flydubai there is such a thing believe me

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Vortac,


It may seem strange to you but at most Ex-Pat airlines that is exactly what happens. An FO who upgrades will then join the bottom of the seniority list as a Captain as he has changed positions. I have worked at 2 previous ExPat jobs and seniority did not count for much but in the few instances it was utilized if an FO upgraded he would then become the bottom level Captain. This is different than a US seniority system which Fly Dubai seems to be using, the difference here being no US carrier hires DECs. The system is what it is however and new joiners will have to realize this and look at their FOs as being senior to them in seniority. It reminds me of the old adage "Don't piss your Copilot off as someday he will be your Chief Pilot."

[Vortac1]

Wyoming and Jack,

Thanx, I totally understand now, I got confused there for a second.

Yes, in US once an FO upgrades he becomes the most junior CA, unless a more junior FO upgrades before due to meeting total time requirements or jet time requirements before the other guy/gal.

Everybody keeps their seniority slot in US, regardless of seat. Now upgrades will come to whoever has the seniority AND meets the minimum requirements first, once they're both captains, everything else they bid for (vacation, schedules...) is based on their original seniority date (date of hire or initial hire check ride usually).

Not too sure how different it is in FD...

[MrCarlosDanger]

Jack...what airline in the US would that be???? When your captain number comes up you can defer or upgrade. By defering you increase the value of your seniority number as a captain at a later time...you don't drop to the bottom of the captains list! Hence, you can be a senior FO one day and be a senior captain the next as in FD. Further, what airline in the US hires DECs?? Sorry mate but your logic flawed. I am not aware of any airline in the US where you loose relative seniorty by upgrading. So be careful in painting with such a broad brush...perhaps in some fractional programs that may be the case, but no legacy airline will practrice what you speak.

[spanishfly69]

Jack,
Your comment shows what kind of experience you have. How can you say something you have no clue about it. I understand that you might not agree. But to say that no airline does it that way is having no clue. Why do we as a pilots want to judge everything for what we think things should be. Change your paradigma, and adapt. Period..

[Blue system]

Jack, please :ugh:

I think its a silly rule to take DEC:E but I understand why an airline like FZ has to do it.
This is a very fair and transparent way of doing things by FZ. But you both want to come as DEC and cut in line before the Fo's who joined long before you:=

There are plenty of excellent Fo's in the company. Many come from previous commands on CRJ, ERJ, ATR, Dash with training backgrounds. There's even a fair number of TRI and TRE's among them. All they need is 6 months to settle in to the 73 and maybe an additional 6 months to get some route structure experience.

[On speed on profile]

Jack,

Assuming you are an FZ pilot.... When you interviewed, it was explained to you that you would join the master seniority list and retain that for your employment at FZ. It was also explained to you when you pulled your number out of the shoe box if more than one of you joined on the same day. If it wasn't, I can guarantee you were given enough opportunity to ask the question. You clearly are able to post on this forum as well so don't pretend you were going in with your eyes open....... It's is very public knowledge how seniority is implemented at FZ.

Bottom line, if you sign the contract, stop moaning..... If I had a dirham for every DEC that is moaning about their PBS roster AND hasn't bothered to sit down for more than 10 minutes to try and understand PBS, I'd be retired!

This is getting old and very boring now!

[Old King Coal]

https://www.zawya.com/story/flydubai_announces_47_per_cent_profit_increase_over_2012_Res ults-ZAWYA20140303081834/

However, it's not all good news because the announced AED 222.8 million profit figure has not surpassed the threshold required to trigger a bonus payment for the FZ staff (wherein the threshold for that was set, in March 2013, at AED 330 million). :{

[what-to-do]

Surprise, suprise! Just remember that if you went that extra mile this last year.... it wasn't enough. Maybe two miles would suffice next time? :ok:

[Jack330]

I was only pointing out that Flydubai, unlike any major company, will always depend on expats DEC because it has a different structure and is also growing so fast that it will never cope with the need of captain even if they had their own cadet program, here is the necessity to adjust the seniority issue accordingly. In many US big airlines this system is perfect because everybody is joining as a copilot then becomes experienced and eventually becomes captain retaining his seniority, flydubai is a place where one DEC joins then instead of becoming more senior is going backwards when most of the FO's upgrade to cpt.
Where I work in Asia for example, the seniority works like in europe... (lufthansa, british etc etc) You join as a cadet then you become first officer but when you become captain you pass in the captains list and you go back...In my personal opinion this is the way it should be but we are all different .... I'm not saying that I'm right, I was just listening to some complaints of some friends after they introduced the PBS there..

[what-to-do]

Jack,

As pointed out, this aint the USA. Move on.

[Old King Coal]

Well the principle in FlyDubai is that your loyalty (i.e. your longevity of service and therein assistance with helping to build the company) is rewarded via your Seniority Number - regardless of which seat you happen to occupy, it's that simple!

[beachbum88]

Just a quick one does anyone have an accurate and up to date pay scale for FO's at FlyDubai, thinking of applying but want to know more. If there is flight pay is it hourly or is it a daily rate? Already rated on the NG with 2000 hours. Also what other benefits are included and what is estimated/realistic take home each year?

Thank you

Tom

[Old King Coal]

tomgee88: wrt "Probably been asked already"

Indeed it has, and if you could be bothered to look (even just one page back) you'd see the answer to much of what you ask (here (http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/335052-flight-deck-positions-flydubai-master-thread-merged-115.html#post8345794)) and a trawl further back through the pages would also fill in the gaps wrt additional elements of the package. Some various other aspects are also listed on flydubai's own website (here (http://careers.flydubai.com/careers/position/job_aca4d1000000000022036#.UxRuHtx3CZc)).

Wrt you specific question regarding 'Flight Duty Pay'. It is paid hourly and is based upon 'block' hours (F/O's get 110 AED per block hour).

I would hazard a guess that the annual take-home salary for an FZ F/O (based upon doing 80 block hours per month for 10½ months... remembering that in each year you'd have 1½ months of leave to take) would be in the region of: 460,800 AED / $125,456 USD / €91,064 EUR / £74,993 GBP, and one also needs to consider that there is no taxation of ones income within the UAE.

[beachbum88]

Thank you for your response! Are FO's paid a salary as in 12 months of year or is it like FR where you are paid only when you work?

Thanks again

Kindest Regards

Tom

[burnable gomi]

:ugh:
What is this industry coming to when somebody feels to need to ask if you're paid for all 12 months in the year? :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Old King Coal]

Tom,
Basic Salary
Accommodation Allowance
Transport Allowance
are all paid by flydubai on the 26th of each month, every month (regardless of whether you were flying or not, or away on leave, etc).

Flight Duty Pay is also paid monthly, albeit 'monthly in arrears' (i.e. any flight duty pay one might have earned during the month of, say, March, would be included as part of ones Salary & Allowances payment that would be made by flydubai on the 26th April).

[SOPS]

No wonder this Industry is in the state it is, when people are accepting as 'normal' that they may not get paid each month.:ugh::ugh::ugh:. We are all doomed.

[beachbum88]

Thank you and I couldn't agree more it's a terrible state to be in but it is reality for many in the likes of certain European airlines which is why I am looking at all
options now that my hours are finally starting to build.
Thank you for your help today.

[pole shift]

Jack
I couldn't agree more with your last post.
It would be more constructive all those trying to tell you off, if they would at least appreciate that a DEC is a proven, and experienced aviator, and at least be given the opportunity to maintain his/her CAPTAIN seniority at the time of joining rather than seeing him/herself going backwards, when a non type rated FO from the ATR/SAAB/DASH 7, 8, 9, or whatever upgrades.(no offense to anyone :) )
In any case is a pointless discussion. Of course people know when they sign what they sign for, a reminder is unnecessary. It would have been better if more consideration was given to those doing the donkey work, rather than advice and compassion.

[Voodoo 3]

Just remember that if you went that extra mile this last year.... it wasn't enough. Maybe two miles would suffice next time?

I'm quite sure that I could do five miles bare feet on broken glass in the summer heat while flagellating myself the whole way and it wouldn't make much of a difference.

Wondering now why I bothered to go with flight plan fuel so much if the thanks I get is great job, no bonus but here's to next year…….:(

[Old King Coal]

Recite after me: "Don't pat me on my back; Pat me on my wallet"

[Blue system]

Pole shift,

Many of the Fo's are proven, experienced aviators with 5000-10000 hours and several thousand hours PIC/Airline command to boot. They just lacked the right typerating or else they would be sat direct in the left seat with that experience.

So tell me again why a DEC that joins at a later stage should jump the que?
And ofcourse a DEC will not move backwards :ugh: . He keeps his number like everyone else...

[On speed on profile]

Pole shift,

You may think you are a proven and experienced aviator but what exactly have you brought to the company with regards to commitment??...... Because that is exactly what the FZ seniority system rewards and for everyone who has endured the bad rosters over the last few years, it actually finally means something.

By their very nature, a DEC has probably left a not so stable job (or even unemployment) to come to FZ because the terms and conditions are better or they had no other option. Count yourself lucky if you fall into either bracket. Just because you are a captain, it doesn't automatically entitle you to better rights than your fellow, longer suffering FO. You may not like it but it is a fair system and it is one that every pilot in FZ knowingly signs up to.

I suggest you stop whining about it on here, stick your head above the parapet and go and make your thoughts heard where it counts if it really bothers you that much....... Or not.........

A little humility and respect goes a long way in the flight deck and the crew room!

[JimbosJet]

Is anyone able to shed some idea on the length of time it takes before you hear from Fly Dubai following an online application? I'm current on a modern Boeing with 5500+ hrs and applying for a non-type rated FO position. Is recruitment ongoing or is there a backlog due to the training departments workload?

Oh and before the flaming starts, I'm humble enough to realise that I may not hear anything at all if I'm deemed unsuitable.

[WYOMINGPILOT]

I think everything is backlogged due to the runway closure which lasts until summertime. Type rated applicants are being given November start dates. It will clear out next year but expect slow response times now. The good news is lots of expected future growth with the new orders.

[Azadpanchi]

Is this Flydubai CAE 737 TR program actually for recruitment or just a scheme by CAE to sell their TRs..?? can anyone confirm..?? :confused:

[Thrustrequired]

Hi guys, I would like to share my situation with you all in search for some thoughts !

I'm actually flying in South America, and my current situation is starting to bother me. My airline has something around 120 acfts and a lot of old skippers (who are unable to retire due to previous airlines bankruptcy). My number on the seniority list is something around 400 and there is no fleet growth expected on the near future.

My duty roster has only 8 days off (no matter what) and we are usually flying 5x1. Long ground times, short rest periods, days and nights in sequence are often found. The salary ain't bad because I'm single and live with my parents, but I would have to struggle to afford having a family with that. Long story short, I can't save much nowadays, would save even less if I had wife and kids.

That said, do you guys think that going to ME would be a nice choice ? I know some people that decided to do the move, but I'm very connected to my family and must admit that I fear leaving all behind.

I'm 3700 tt, 2900 on the 737.

I know this is a very personal decision, but what do you guys think ? Am I going to have better T&C in the ME ? Is FlyDubai a good choice ?

I'm also curious about the upgrade time for an applicant like me.

Thanks in advance for the help !!! :ok:

[Vortac1]

Hey Thrust,

Like you said, this is a very personal decision, nobody will be able to give you a straight answer for your particular case.

But...I'd strongly suggest to go ahead and bite the bullet and read this thread thoroughly from the beginning. It will tell you all you need to know about FD, conditions, pros and cons. It will give you some idea of what to expect as an expat for FD, you should be able to compare and maybe judge if its worth leaving home behind.

Its a tough choice, good luck!

[LostinT2DXB]

Thrust,

It is never an easy decision to leave ones home. You need to ask yourself where do you want to be in 5 years, 10 years, or even 20 years. Set some goals, see if your current job can get you there in your reasonable time frame. The ME is a land opportunity, but it is filled with risk at every turn. You have an advantage of no wife or kids, so money wouldn't be an issue right now with taking the job at FZ. People who come here with a non-working spouse and a few kids are already behind the power curve with needing a large villa/apartment, school fees, etc....

Do your homework, understand what this place is, and really take a good look at your goals in life.......then make a decision.

Just as an FYI, there is a long line of applicants to get into this job, so if you haven't even filled out the app it would be a good place to start!

All the best with your decision:ok:

[High Energy]

A little birdie in Sri Lanka told me that Flydubai is looking to fly from Matalla to;
-Singapore
-Kuala Lumpur
-Jakarta
-Bangkok
-Manilla

Timeframe yet unknown but this is with the Sri Lankan CAA. So still a rumor.

[Thrustrequired]

Hey "Vortac" and "LostinT2DXB" !

First of all, I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts with me ! It's always good to hear the opinion of those who are actually "living the situation"

After taking some time to talk with my girlfriend (7yrs with the same woman lol), we decided that the best thing to do is go to DXB in my next vacation so we can feel how things are up there.

As you guys suggested, I'll do my homework... And that means learn as much as I can about the company from this thread and talk with those who are flying nowadays at FZ.

By the way, how's the job market for pilot's spouses ? My girlfriend is a nutritionist and I would like to have some insights about how would be her life up there.

Thanks again for the help, folks.

Fly safe... :ok:

[had-enough]

Thrustrequired,

Vortac isn't even an FZ pilot, so be careful when taking advice from people 'living the situation', but do read this thread all the way back, should give you all the info you need.

Best of luck!

:O

[Vortac1]

Hey Thrustrequired,

No need to thank, many of us here are glad to throw some advice from personal experience. As Had-enough so eloquently put it, I dont fly for FD, I never claimed to be an FD pilot, this is why I refrain from providing input regarding first hand info from the company itself, but not when it comes to issues regarding becoming an expat or doing your due diligence when it comes to making the call to head to UAE.

With that said, I did and am "living the situation" that the OP is asking about, which is insight about becoming an Expat in Dubai. I went through the entire process and decision making analysis with my wife when this opportunity presented itself a few months back, just like Thrustrequired is trying to do now. I've also been an expat in Europe before and in US in a prior life. Yeah, I think I may have a little bit of insight with regards to being an expat in different continents, just trying to share the experience to others, thats all.

Thrustrequired, good call on heading over to Dubai with the girlfriend first, I did the exact same thing before we pulled the trigger, proved to be a good move.

Feel free to PM me your email address or skype name, I'd be more than happy to help out in any way I can.

Good luck amigo.
V

[henriksch]

Hi guys

Have been looking through this thread, and gotten alot of very usefull information. I have a CTC assessment for DEC coming up, and I am preparing the best I can.
Just a few questions, that I hope you can help with.

For the interview; what sort of sim profile is it for the DEC (rated)?
I have seen that CTC use the PilApt test. What would be the best place to get my hands on some material to prepare for this (i just have ipad available)

For the work;
It sounds like PBS have helped alot, and people are getting happier with the roster. i would of course be very low senority. Would it be possible to bid for, say, 4 long night flights, and then two days off followed by another 4 night flying days. I know its hard, but it would at least provide some stability to a low senority pilot (assume the night flights are not too hard to get, since they dont sound too popular)

Regarding the travelling on EK flights. How does this work. Is it similar to what EK crew get? Is it ID-90 or a third?

Thank you

[N747EX]

Hi all, just wondering about the housing allowance for FO's the 12,000 AED still seems a bit short for a 2/3 bed villa or how are you guys finding it now? Thanks

[LNAV737]

Hi ...2-3 bedrom villa ? Hhaah i don't think so my friend.Most likely 2 bedroom apartment in not so popular areas ....good luck with the villa:=

[Otto Throttle]

N747EX,


A 3/4 bed villa is still a possibility on the FO allowance (I have one bang on the money), but it all depends where you want to live. If you can be flexible about the areas you are prepared to live in, you can still find a half-decent place for the budget. However, rentals are increasing fairly rapidly as a result of rampant greed and the more popular areas are probably priced more in line with the indications given by LNAV. Don't lose all hope though.


Search this thread and some of the expat forums elsewhere on the web, and they will give you a pretty accurate range of where your living expenses are likely to be.

[High Energy]

Flydubai daily flight to Moscow starting Sep 2014! No timings/airport and terminal known yet.

Link (http://www.flydubai.com/en/news/article/flydubai-to-operate-direct-flights-to-moscow/)

[N747EX]

Thanks LNAV and OTTO for your replies much appreciated. Currently about halfway through this thread very informative indeed

[pedro2110]

Hi all,
Can anyone tell me more about roster these days since new system has been implemented?
I am thinking about aplying for dec, but i need to be able to visit europe 2 times a month... Is this possible in your opinion?

Do you get 2 blocks of 4 days off? Or if not can we use our a/l days do create this possibility? Many thanks!

[MrCarlosDanger]

Anything is possible…but your situation is probably unlikely with a very low seniority. However, I have been surprised by other rosters. You might be able to bid all long night flights to free up time for 4 day blocks. But I think that is the exception rather than the rule. I think most guys are getting at least one four day block and I am hearing few getting 6 days off…consecutive. I am going to test the waters with 4 days at the end of the month and 4 days at the beginning.

I am sure others will chime in.

[Ethiopia]

flydubai to operate direct flights to Moscow (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/middle-east/item/1053-flydubai-to-operate-direct-flights-to-moscow)

[chrislikesblue]

Are they still calling type-rated FO's for assessments? Or did they freeze the assessments?

[Crashlanding]

Yes at CTC looking on the dates its about every 2 weeks ish there is another batch of dates listed

[pedro2110]

Thanks for the input.

Are you a captain there?

My main worry remains the traveling, how is experience on staff traveling to europe with emirates?

Pay is good i guess... Roster still the challenging thing there?

[SebastianDesoto]

Class date, July 20th. Assessment was in July 2013, interview was in September, 2013.

Non type rated FO, approximately 5000 total with 2800 turbo jet and 1000 turbo prop. All SIC.

Not married, no kids ( but I do have a fiancé). I plan to keep cost of living as cheap as possible, while still being comfortable. My plan is to pay off huge loan debt and try to save money for the first three years. I am coming here to work, primarily. I do not really party, but I am social and adventurous. I'll put as much effort into ensuring I am not one of those horror stories. Meaning, I intend to study my ass off and learn as much as possible while flying so that upgrade goes as smooth as possible.

I read here about the neighborhoods of Bur Dubai and Deira. Are those reasonable for someone in my situation? If the operation move to Al Maktoum International, maybe I should just resign myself to paying for Marina Area? Is there any shared housing in Dubai?

[SteepApproach]

Is it true or a mistake that there's a non type selection slot available on march???

[flydream1982]

True.
Started this week, one more date next week.

[chams76]

Hi all,

one question what about a policy of line trainning???

many thank if you have direct contact at flydubai email...

Vbrgds

[overclock25]

Hi guys!

I willing to apply as FO, all of the requirements are satisfied, 2100 total, 600 on type, except the ATPL licence (still frozen ATPL).

Could I have any chance to get in?

Thank you for the suggestions

[Azadpanchi]

Are they hiring second officers from CAE dubai? Heard they have hired 7 SO's from them. Is it true?
Can people working there shed some light on this? Any input will be very helpful.

[Trackdiamond]

If one exceeds all the minima except total time by 100hrs and holding both ICAO and UAE ATPL..what are the chances of being interviewed?Will obtaining a rating add chances or not make a difference without time on type?

What's the latest on interviews?both oral/written and the sim screen?

Any pointers from those that have recently interviewed please inbox me.Do they still use the compass pilapt?
Cheers

[Trackdiamond]

Will the launch of the business class soon mean that Fly Dubai is metamorphosizing into a premium Low Cost Carrier?It probably will do wlll with such product differentiation..

[NinER fIveR]

Trackdiamond,
The old CTC website would have failed your screening based on less than required minimum total hours, so I'm guessing the new one will too. The screening for these things is usually done by robots (whether they are of the computer code or human variety).

If you have a reasonable expectation to surpass the minimum for total hours within the next few months I would say that you should state the minimum required as your total time and apply with that figure now, based on the fact that you will more than likely have it (or better) at time of interview. Good luck :ok:

[NinER fIveR]

Azadpanchi
There is zero reliable info about the SO program at FZ coming from within its walls. However, it exists, and there are a handful of SOs in the company now. Your best bet is to call CAE in Dubai and ask to speak to the person coordinating the program with FZ. Careful as you will most likely be talking to a SALES person with a target of selling $25k type ratings.

[Azadpanchi]

I guess you are right..Thanks a ton Niner Fiver..much appreciated :ok:

[filipo]

hello people,
been flying jets for a short time..actually flying my first jet. I have 1500 on crj and 5000.tt:ugh::ugh: . looking at the application to be filled out for fly dubai, it seems that one has to have a university degree. I do not have that. I am your regular line pilot. is there any one with thoughts on how I can make the application even with my seemingly low education level

[Vortac1]

Hey Filipo,

I'm curious about where you found that requirement of a college degree. Was it in the application form itself? I browsed here (http://careers.flydubai.com/careers/position/job_5e3881000000000038890#.UzuBvym9K0c) for the company's requirements for FOs (non type rated) and couldn't find anything about a college degree being a requirement to apply... :bored:

[filipo]

it is not under the requirements...when u fill out the application on line , there is a part that requires one to tell what kind of degree they hold..u check it out

[Old King Coal]

If asked, on the HR form, what (if any) further education / degree qualification you might hold?... simply write 'none',.. wherein, for aircrew applications, it is NOT (repeat NOT) a requirement.

[busykill]

Any other type rated fos starting in august?

[eduelp]

Just wondering, any former FR FOs in FD around that can share their minds?

[N747EX]

After applying it says one should here back within 28 days or application is unsuccessful, in reality is this correct?

[ssangyongs]

Experienced and rated FO on type (737) still have to go through CTC?

[mukul]

hey guys been called april last week for a screening date, any suggestions apart from fcoms and jepp stuff?

been doing some smart cockpit though
737-800 3000hrs. P2

[mark65]

Hi everyone.. may be i will be joining FZ in the near future..anyone could tell me (more or less) how long is the training..
Do they give any days free at the end?
thanks a lot for your help

[justclimb]

Mukul,
you could go through previous posts on this thread, that will give you a good idea of what to expect. For a quick and short brief, on the first day - PILAP test, group discussion, situation given to the group whereby the decisions of the group have to be unanimous. After lunch break, those who get through will be interviewed. Successful candidates are given a sim brief for the next day. Sim consists of SID departure with no A/T, no FD, no FMC, no automation, followed by procedure locator ILS app. Go around at minimums, landing gear up - engine failure. Radar vectors if provided are to follow a track, and not heading as in India. Remember to follow the white line on the compass rose of the PFD, which will give you the track and not the magenta, which will be the heading line. All the best.

[alloha]

Coming over for screening in Dubai late April. I have 6000 hours B737EFIS but completed the NG difference course and 737/300-900 is on my license .But no actual flight hours on the 738.My last 2 LPC were on a 738 sim. FD would consider me as a TR candidate or NTR? True or false that Command upgrade is something like 2 years from joining. Thanks in advance.

[pole shift]

I wonder why everyone is so desperate to join this outfit, where you will fly like crazy in the worst times, only to see your senior 'colleagues' earn more, fly less, have double the days off than you do in a month, whilst you will NEVER be in a position to even get close to that, even when the company has 100 aircraft.

All the best of luck :ok:

[LostinT2DXB]

Still at it pole?

You use the word "senior" as if it implies something negative. Show some respect to the senior pilots who helped start this airline. They were the ones doing proving runs, sitting 15+ standbys a month the first year of operations, and didn't have many of the luxuries that you and your fellow "junior" colleagues enjoy when you walk in on day 1. You probably will never understand the concept of seniority and rewarding those who stay with a company for many years. That's unfortunate as you might want to consider changing careers. Maybe you would prefer an office job in bldg 2 where everyone is "equal"? :}

[pole shift]

It's ok, no need to feel embarrassed when people eventually find out what is really going on. No one can take it away from you, nor your scale A, nor your privileged rosters.
As founders of this company you have every legitimate right to enjoy the fruits of your hard work earlier on of so many years as you say.
Respect and consideration should be shown to those doing the donkey work, rather than advice and compassion.
As aviation is such a small world, you may find your self one day into the position of every new joiner in this company.

[N747EX]

Do flydubai provide the option to bring your wife to Dubai for the final interview as emirates do?

[Vortac1]

Not sure what emirates does. FlyDubai does not cover any expenses for your better half on the final interview. I brought mine with me, but on my own dime.

Hope it helps.
V

[N747EX]

Thanks vortac, I believe emirates give your better half a ticket aswell to have a look around

[LostinT2DXB]

Pole,

Embaressed by what? That I took a job at an airline when I did? That I signed the contract that I signed? That seniority and longevity are honored and respected by pretty much anyone with any understanding of the airline industry?

You sound bitter that someone (anyone) was able to take a job at FZ before you and have anything better. Also, you signed your name to your contract so if you want to place blame, blame only yourself for agreeing to work at a lower pay scale. The B scale is something of a bad idea from the company, but if people were not willing to accept the terms the company would have to raise them. I sincerely hope everyone gets a housing increase shortly, although I suspect it won't be as much as is needed. Something that should make you giddy is that I suspect the A scale won't ever see any raises! If you truly think you are doing donkey work it is only because the stuff you write on here makes you look like a donkey :ugh:

As for finding myself in the position of a new joiner, it is an individual choice to jump ship to another airline. If you choose to make that choice you should be very aware of what you are leaving and where you are going as the grass is usually never greener. The company's seniority system is based on the thought that its better to reward those who commit to stay rather than those who change jobs every few years. Right or wrong, its the system management chose.....

[SteepApproach]

What does it mean A scale and B scale? Is it a seniority transition from B to A? It is only about rostering? Does anybody can show a same FZ roster? Too many questions...sorry��

[LostinT2DXB]

The company decided it was paying the pilots too much, so after two months of operation it started offering a different contract to new joiners. The new contract paid 10% less than the original contract. Of the 50 pilots hired under the original pay, only about 30 have remained with flydubai and are known as the "A-scale" pilots, however some people who have no respect for seniority or just can't grasp the concept that there are things out of their control consider the A-scale pilots the "privileged" ones. There is a much more detailed post earlier in the thread, but that's the short version......

[SteepApproach]

Thanks a lot LostinT2DXB..now much clearer!
Can't see anything so "unbelieveble" in it...

[NinER fIveR]

Another CIS destination promising to expand the network by late summer.

Kazakh air carrier to resume regular flights to Dubai - Trend.Az (http://en.trend.az/capital/business/2266238.html)

[High Energy]

Yep, billateral agreements between Dubai-Kazakhstan dictate that if Ek/Flydubai want to operate to Kazakhstan then Air Astana has to be allowed to Dubai as well.

[yuck]

It's not difficult to guess where Flydubai is going to fly.... just check Air Arabia destinations. Most of the "new" destinations that we fly to are already flown by them!

The Flydubai office staff does obviously a very hard work to find new places to fly to...:zzz:

[High Energy]

For what it's worth. We probably won't be on time anyway and someone else will get the PR exposure.

New airport opening

After a series of delays, Qatar’s new state-of-the-art Hamad International Airport will begin passenger operations for 10 low-cost airlines on Wednesday, April 30.

The airport’s first commercial flight – expected to be a Fly Dubai service – is due to land at 11:15am on Wednesday.

[High Energy]

Flights to Aden (South Yemen) and Kandahar to be launched.
Link (http://www.albawaba.com/business/pr/flydubai-aden-kandahar-572658)

Aden is exactly like Matalla procedural wise but with crappy ATC.

[dogsbreath]

Just to put the facts in context. The A scalers as they are known were the 30 original Captains who signed up with Fly Dubai, when the airline didn't even exist as such, they made a commitment to a paper airline, and many of them were instrumental in writing the original flying manuals and securing the first AOC. They made a leap of faith, and as such the company has seen fit to leave them on their original pay scale. I was one of the original 30, and left to pastures new, not greener, just new. Worst decision I have made in aviation, worse even than turning down the then Chief Pilot, Mike Keene, for a job at a little start up airline in Luton, owned by some Greek Playboy !!!

[MrCarlosDanger]

Come back then.

[Old King Coal]

MrCarlosDanger: wrt 'Come back then.'

It would probably be true to say that (to my knowledge & memory, which is capacious), of those whom have left, only one has ever returned. It would seem to be the case that, once one 'resigns' (be that either voluntarily, or else wise :rolleyes: ), one will never be welcomed back, and therein a resignation from FZ should be considered as very much a burning of ones bridges! :ooh:

[MrCarlosDanger]

Perhaps if you taxi across an active runway without permission (after being told by the FO to stop) that results in a 747 aborting...or perhaps tear an airplane apart while airborne to rearrange radio boxes you will not be given an invitation to return. Are you aware of anyone else who inquired about coming back and in turn denied? I think each case is reviewed on it's own merits. So if the guy wants to come back just ask...worst case they say no. I do tend to believe however, if you poke someone in the eye on the way out forget about it.

[Old King Coal]

Carlos, in answer to your question, I know of at least one whom requested a return to the flock, but rather than giving him an outright denial he was told to attend the whole CTC thing again, which to me, at least, seems a tadge over zealous.

Ah well, must dash, my KoolAid's getting warm.

Ps. any sign of the ever promised increase in the T&C's ?!

[olster]

Yes Carlos , those were exciting days : the taxi route from 30L changed forever after the first 'incident' .

[Voodoo 3]

Ps. any sign of the ever promised increase in the T&C's ?!

Habibi King,

I always thought of you as our man in the know. We're waiting for you to tell us!!:)

[LostinT2DXB]

I know of three that wanted to return. One was allowed to return, but his seniority was adjusted to his return date. The others must be the one OKC mentioned, plus one other that never had his emails/phone calls returned.

[Iver]

Not sure if this has already been posted, but it's nice to see that you will be adding two lovely destinations to your list (more flights to Yemen and Afghanistan should raise your blood pressure).

FYI - not passing judgment, but I found this blurb on Wikipedia about Kandahar:


By 2011, Kandahar became known as the assassination city of Afghanistan after witnessing many target killings. In July Ahmed Wali Karzai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Wali_Karzai), brother of President Hamid Karzai, was shot by his longtime head of security. Soon after the Quetta Shura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetta_Shura) of the Taliban claimed responsibility. The next day an Islamic cleric (mulla) of the famous Red Mosque in the Shahr-e Naw area of the city and a number of other people were killed by a Taliban suicide bomber who had hidden explosives inside his turban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turban). On 27 July 2011, the mayor of the city, Ghulam Haider Hamidi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghulam_Haider_Hamidi), was assassinated by another Taliban militant who had hidden explosives in his turban. Two deputy mayors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deputy_mayor) had been killed in 2010,[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar#cite_note-31) while many tribal elders and Islamic clerics have also been assassinated in the last several years. Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Services_Intelligence) (ISI) spy network is often blamed as the masterminds behind the Taliban-led insurgency.[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar#cite_note-32)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar#cite_note-US-blames-Pakistan-4) This form of terrorism is the idea of ISI to defend its sovereignty (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty). The ISI is using the insurgents in the name of Islamic jihad (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad) to counter the growing influence of its rival India in Afghanistan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan%E2%80%93India_relations) and the Afghan claim regarding the disputed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversy)Durand Line (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durand_Line) border.[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar#cite_note-33) The overwhelming majority of the victims in the attacks are ordinary Afghan civilians.[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar#cite_note-civilians-34) On 6 June 2012, at least 21 civilians were killed and 50 others injured when two Taliban suicide bombers on motorcycles blew themselves up in a market area near Kandahar International Airport. Referring to them as the "agents of Punjab", ANA provincial police chief, Brig. Gen. Abdul Razaq stated that the Taliban "have once again spilled the blood of innocent civilians."[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar#cite_note-35)


Here is Flydubai's press release:


Flydubai (http://airlinersgallery.smugmug.com/Airlines-Asia-2/Airlines-Asia2-FP/Flydubai) (Dubai) has announced that it will launch a three times weekly service to Aden and a twice weekly service to Kandahar, starting on August 1 and July 25, 2014 respectively. These new route launches bring the airline’s network to 68 destinations.

Flydubai will become the first UAE-based carrier to fly directly to both Aden in Yemen and Kandahar in Afghanistan. The airline first began operations to Sana’a, the capital of Yemen, in 2012 and Kabul, the Afghan capital, in 2010.


Aden is the commercial capital of Yemen and its deep and naturally protected seaport remains a key driver of the country’s economy. Due to its strategic geographic location, Aden Free Zone has established itself as a regional logistics and manufacturing hub which has helped strengthen economic and social development in the seaport city.


Flydubai will operate three flights per week to Aden, one of which will be via Djibouti. This new service will increase flights to Djibouti to six a week. In addition, flights are available for sale between Aden and Djibouti. Located in southern Afghanistan, Kandahar is the capital of Kandahar Province with an estimated population of 500,000. The city is a major trading center for sheep, wool, cotton, silk, felt, grains and fresh and dried fruit.

[Old King Coal]

Iver: I'll bet Terry Taliban and his Al-Qaeda chums can't believe their luck, what with now (almost) direct flights between Afghanistan (Taliban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban) & Al-Qaeda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda)) and Yemen (Ansar al-Shari'a (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_al-Sharia_(Yemen)), aka Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_al-Sharia_(Yemen)); and Islamic Jihad of Yemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Jihad_of_Yemen)) and thereon into East Africa (Yemen's Al-Shabaab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Shabaab_(militant_group))) and, who knows, maybe even further westwards (to join up with their pals in Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda_in_the_Islamic_Maghreb), and Boko Haram (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram), etc).

I suppose the only thing better would be direct flights, therein avoiding the temptations of fleshpot Dubai; though, that said, it might be handy for, both figuratively & literally speaking, a 'last minute layover' - what with all those comely maidens & wide-eyed houris whom frequent the various sherbet stands throughout the city - before martyring oneself on the Jihad ?!

[High Energy]

We now fly to Sana'a a few times a day but that used to be worse then Aden. We used to have to call into Sana's 20 minutes prior to our ETA and ask if the airport was safe. Ie no terrorists overrunning the airport. If it was safe you could continue if no you had to hold enroute. Divertion was to Aden. I never had any issues operating into Aden but I know it's story with regards to Al-Qaeda.

WRT the new Doha. We did our usual duties and arrived in style...40 minutes late.

08pm: HIA has seen its first plane land - the Flydubai flight was 40 minutes late but every one cheered all the same - the press conference has been held and the airport is now an operating facility

[olster]

very succinctly put as usual OKC - a 'Cook's tour ' of global ' hotspots' now available on FZ . Of course the usual robust risk analysis will have taken place ...

[dogsbreath]

Again, I'm not sure you are aware of all the facts as regards the runway incursion, fault, if you can call it that, was levelled at ATC as much as the Captain, ATC instruction was to "follow your buddy" which the Captain did. The incident was never filed by the way. The FO only asked whether the aircraft had had permission to cross, he did not tell the Captain to stop. If you want to discuss it further please private message me. Old king, nice to hear from you as always, keep the faith, I miss you all.

[dogsbreath]

To all at flydubai, every airline in every country has it's faults, they are businesses not charities. I have flown for enough companies to know which are good and bad, FZ is good believe me, compared to say Globespan or Astraeus. And remember, in the UAE you are not giving 50% of everything you earn to subsidise every waster and scrounger in Eastern Europe on UK benefits. THE GRASS IS NOT GREENER. Bitter experience has taught me that. I'd come back tomorrow if they would have me.

[Calmcavok]

And remember, in the UAE you are not giving 50% of everything you earn to subsidise every waster and scrounger in Eastern Europe on UK benefits.

Not intending to turn this into a political debate, but I think it's your fellow countrymen & women who are the wasters and scroungers. The Eastern Europeans seem relatively hard working!

[pole shift]

These political discussions are cool!
Looking back a few years throughout the Middle East there have been terrorist attacks almost everywhere except....guess where! The UAE! Ever considered from where all these nice groups OKC is referring to, are sourced? Hmmm...
I would think we are safe to fly even to Mogadishu, a UAE registered aircraft is not to be troubled...:}

[High Energy]

flydubai (FZ, Dubai Int'l) has secured a tender to ferry Kyrgyz Muslim faithful from Kyrgyzstan to Saudi Arabia during the Hajj pilgrimage which this year will fall between October 3 to 7.

In its assessment, the Krygyz Spiritual Administration of Muslims said the Emirati carrier was chosen as none of the other applicants conformed to the tender's criteria.

Link (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/27617-flydubai-wins-kyrgyz-muslim-pilgrim-tender)

[High Energy]

New destinations announced in India;
-Delhi
-Kochi
-Thiruvananthapuram (good scrabble word!)

Timings to be confirmed
Link (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/news/flydubai-to-connect-3-more-indian-cities/article5977951.ece)

*Update* Delhi 4 x per week the other two new Indian destinations 3 x per week.
Delhi is supposed to start in June.
Link (http://www.business-standard.com/article/pti-stories/flydubai-to-start-delhi-operations-eyes-smaller-cities-114050501169_1.html)

[High Energy]

Not sure if these new destinations were already listed;
-Almaty
-Shymkent

This brings the total so far for 2014 to 9 new destinations.
Link (http://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/flydubai-expanding-with-flights-to-india-and-kazakhstan-1.1328454)

[High Energy]

Flydubai to move to DWC in full in 2015 and possibly back to DXB in 2024 when Emirates switches to DWC.
Interesting article here (http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-05-05/dubai-study-opens-way-for-emirates-to-delay-hub-move-until-2024)...

The plan would see FlyDubai transfer to Al Maktoum from Dubai International airport next year, before making the switch in reverse in a decade’s time, the document suggests.

The masterplan is still under discussion and has yet to be approved, a Dubai Airports spokesman said

After 2024 FlyDubai will have the option of moving all flights back to Dubai International or keeping some at the Al Maktoum terminal and operating a split-base model.

Why doesn't Flydubai get a massive dedicated terminal at DWC as the Goverments aim is to expand us quickly? Then by 2024 when we reach 100+ aircraft the mutual benefit between a big carrier like Flydubai and a massive carrier like EK combined with a huge unrestricted airport would surely be enormous. Now it's the time to do it properly...

[High Energy]

Finally some Moscow details released;

Moscow Flight Details:

flydubai will operate daily flights between Dubai and Moscow starting from 23 September 2014.

FZ911 is scheduled to depart Dubai International Terminal 2 at 0900hrs local time, landing in Vnukovo International Airport at 1410hrs local time. FZ912 is scheduled to depart Vnukovo International Airport at 1510hrs, arriving into Dubai at 2010hrs local time.

Link (https://www.zawya.com/story/flydubai_announces_five_new_destinations-ZAWYA20140505094735/)

[Vortac1]

Thanks for the great info High Energy.

Definitely an interesting article about FD possibly moving to DWC next year. Guess time will tell.

[Calmcavok]

Sounds like a right bloody confusing palava!

[Raropilot]

Applied well over a month ago as NTR. over 6000TT 1000 PIC turboprop, but No jet time :rolleyes: other than the automated reply following submission of said application, not a peep from them... Have they stopped hiring heavy prop captains in favour of jet experience? :confused:

[Flyboy_SG]

Hey guys,

Anyone giving interview at ctc, Southampton on 22nd may.
Looking for a ride share from LHR. We are two.

Happy landings !

[N747EX]

Raropilot I applied about the same time as you with jet time and havent heard anything either since the first application received e-mail.

[High Energy]

Sounds like more Matalla flight are being considered.
Link (http://www.dailynews.lk/?q=business/flydubai-happy-colombo-mattala-operations)

[High Energy]

Flights to Srinagar (Kashmir) potentially being lookd at.

The Indian agency has approached the Dubai government and the low-cost carrier flydubai to introduce the flights to Srinagar, the capital of the northernmost Indian state, pending clearance from the New Delhi government

“There are no discussions about flying to Srinagar, although it is of interest,” said Sudhir Sreedharan, the airline’s senior vice president commercial for Gulf, Indian subcontinent and Africa.

Link (http://www.thenational.ae/business/industry-insights/tourism/jammu-and-kashmir-looks-to-lure-gcc-tourists-with-dubai-direct-flights)

[pole shift]

Apparently we are going to have a lot of fun this summer! OAI, KBL , KDH, OAZ...:E


Taliban offensive opens with rocket attack on Kabul airport

The Taliban launched their annual “spring offensive” on Monday by firing rockets at Kabul airport, but the attack missed its target and caused no casualties, Afghan officials said.

At least two rockets exploded at 5:00 am (0030 GMT), the exact time that the insurgents had vowed to start a new nationwide operation against US-led foreign forces and Afghan government facilities.

Taliban leaders said last week that the offensive, which will be the last before NATO combat troops withdraw from Afghanistan, would cleanse “the filth of the infidels” from the country.

“Two rockets landed north of Kabul international airport,” Sediq Sediqqi, the interior ministry spokesman, told AFP. “There were no casualties.”

NATO’s International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) confirmed it was investigating the attack on the airport, where it has a military base.

It also said that mortars have been fired at Bagram airport, the biggest ISAF base in Afghanistan, which lies north of Kabul.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the attacks via a recognised Twitter account, and said other strikes had been carried out across the country.

The “Khaibar” offensive, named after an ancient battle between Muslims and Jews, will coincide with a second round of elections next month to choose a successor to President Hamid Karzai, who has ruled since the fall of the Taliban in 2001.

About 51,000 US-led NATO troops still deployed in Afghanistan are set to withdraw by December, ending a long and costly battle to defeat the rebels, who launched a fierce insurgency after being ousted from power.

A small number of US troops may stay on from next year on a training and counter-terrorism mission, but the Taliban warned that the insurgency would continue against even a few thousand US troops.

The Taliban “insists on the unconditional withdrawal of all invading forces,” the group said in an English-language statement on its website last week.

The statement said that attacks during the coming “fighting season” would target US military bases, foreign embassies and vehicle convoys, as well as Afghan officials, politicians and translators.

Afghanistan’s fighting season traditionally begins in April or May as snow recedes from the mountains, and the Taliban mark the occasion with an annual declaration to attack foreign forces and unseat the Kabul government.

[arcdu]

This may seem a strange question, but for those of you in the application process could you let me know how you applied. Have done a google search, but the flydubai website has nothing about pilot recruitment that I can see, and there is also nothing on the CTC website that I can find (so hopefully they are no longer involved).

Does anyone know the recruitment plans for the future, presumably they still need pilots for the expansion plans? Thanks for any information.

[Old King Coal]

Pole Shift: see http://www.nst.com.my/latest/taliban-offensive-opens-with-rocket-attack-on-kabul-airport-1.594331

[flydream1982]

Arcdu, it took me 2sec on google typing "flydubai CTC":

flydubai Application Form (http://flydubai.ctcaviation.com/)

You're welcome :ok:

[arcdu]

Thanks Flydream,

Already found that, unfortunately it crashes every time I get to the box for phone number so was wondering if that was how other people applied and if it is just my computer at fault.

[N747EX]

Go to the careers section on the flydubai website you should be able to find it. Honestly we call ourselves pilots and cant even apply for a job on
our own

http://careers.flydubai.com/

[arcdu]

N747EX

Thank you for your useful input. As I said in my original post there appears to be nothing on the flydubai careers website regarding pilot recruitment. In fact when you select "Pilot" it states that there are no positions which match these criteria.

Current vacancies are, however, listed for a variety of other disciplines, which leads me to believe that there is no pilot recruitment going on at the moment, or alternatively that they have enough candidates at this time.

However I am only guessing, so thought I would make use of the wide ranging resource that is pprune to attempt to gather information from those who might have more knowledge on the subject than myself. My apologies if seeing a fellow professional pilot using a professional pilot's internet site in such a manner somehow offends you.

[flydream1982]

Arcdu, when I applied last year the link I gave you was working fine.
I know they are interviewing at the moment, but maybe they already have a large pool of applicants who passed the initial screening,which could explain why there are no openings on the flydubai website,who knows?

[Flyboy_SG]

Yes, Arcdu is right. There is no activity in FDs career page.
Ctc site is the only one which is working now. I guess its just the heavy demand.

[Old King Coal]

Accompanied by the standard out-of-touch, KoolAid drenched, gee whizz what a great bunch of guys & gals you all are, covering letter: flydubai have just announced their new super-dooper-thanks-for-going-the-extra-mile revised package, and the figures (for Captains, at least) are:

No change in the basic salary.
Flight Pay increased by a whopping great 5 Dhs per block hour, i.e. up from 160 Dhs to 165 Dhs per block hour (effective 1st April 2014)
Housing allowance increased by a whole 1,000 Dhs per month, i.e. up from 14,000 Dhs per month to 15,000 Dhs per month (effective 1st Aug 2014) *
Transportation allowance increased by a whole 300 Dhs per month, i.e. up from 2,300 Dhs per month to 2,600 Dhs per month (effective 1st Aug 2014) *

* Captains on higher scales will have no change in their current allowances.

Almost speechless and overcome with emotion, for some strange reason I can feel a very nasty attack of Tourette's Syndrome coming on! :mad:

[skysod]

Would love to know what increases the office staff/management at FD have had over the last 5 years......anyone out there care to shed some light?!

[FlyingTinCans]

First Officers got:


No change in basic
Flight pay increased by 4 AED/Hr
Housing allowance increased by 600AED/month
Transport up by 300AED/month


Better than a kick in the nuts but still falls short of covering the increase in living expenses here in Dubai.

[High Energy]

...Post removed for legal reasons...:mad: :mad: :mad:

[mave292]

Ok so maybe I am still trying to hold out a little bit of hope but it doesn't say anything about not getting an increase in Basic salary, it is referring to our compensation package, i.e. Transport and Housing, so lets just see if another email is sent before the 26th !! If I'm not mistaken all previous increment increases where announced by the Chief Pilot. Maybe i am being a little naive but lets just see :ugh:

[rosterbuster]

For god's sake please have an ounce of gratitude for something, you would have to earn about 8k back in the uk to get that as a rise, get real old boy.

[mave292]

I have gratitude however it doesn't cost 30000 euro/sterling plus to RENT a 3 bedroom house in a middle class area in the UK so maybe you should get real old boy

[rosterbuster]

If you are not happy with it, why are you even here? Why not vote with your feet?

[mave292]

I am very happy here and I'm here a since 2009. As i said I am grateful however its not extra money in my pocket, unfortunately it is going to go to the landlords here in Dubai, we have always received an increment in the basic salary which does go into my pocket therefore I am holding out some hope, where have i complained may i ask ??? I gave an opinion

[Contractpilot1]

This is still a new company just now starting to level off in many areas. What I mean to say is that during the first couple of years of operation it was total chaos. Now one may argue that such can be expected of a new venture while it struggles to find its place. That is only true of an organization that goes off half-cocked from the onset, following the "if we build it they will come" philosophy.

The guys and gals who have been here during the first 2 years have had to ride the wave of trial and error, and much of the "figuring it out" process was done at the expense of managing expectations.

Therefore, the "original" pilot group has had to suffer through the pitfalls and fickle nature of the growth and expansion of our operation across all departments. From pay scales to rostering to upgrades, each of us has undoubtedly felt that the company has dropped the ball at one time or another.

My point is that if management would simply acknowledge the efforts and patience of those of us who have had to endure by simply cutting us some slack in the above mentioned areas, then we would not feel as taken advantage as so many of us do.

[asteroid02]

We got a pay rise but it’s inadequate especially with regards to Housing and Pension. And the package that I signed up to is being progressively eroded by inflation. I have worked out that I take home about AED7,000 more per month than I would in Europe, however, I have also worked out that it will take me at least 3-5 years to simply break even because there are huge hidden costs. Here is the reality of those hidden costs.........

There is ZERO pension which is a hidden cost of circa AED 32,000pa. Although there is an End of Service gratuity, it is now where near a replacement for the lack of pension; it equates to just AED4,000 pa if you stay for <3 years, AED8,000 pa for 3-5 years and a paltry AED12,000 pa for > 5 years of service.....a 20,000k short fall at best or 28,000k shortfall in the worst case. Ouch!! That is very, very painful!
This is a company that has chosen to do everything it possibly can to avoid / minimise that end of term gratuity.....only the basic qualifies......that’s why FDB uses so many allowances and that is why FDB has never ever increased the basic.....all increases have been made to the allowances.

The housing allowance is now inadequate. You won’t rent a 3 bed villa for much less than AED145,000 pa unless you live on a building site. And rent is increasing at an alarming rate. It’s in excess of 10% pa and FZ have only increased the allowance by 5% in 3 years. And, if you have children, you will have little control over where you live unless you want to drive huge distances. School places are very limited and can dictate where you live which can mean living in a more expensive area than you would otherwise choose.......many companies pay schools debentures which mean their employees get priority school places but FZ did not when I joined.

Schooling fees may, in some cases, have a shortfall of up to AED20,000 per child. And you get ZERO allowance if you choose to school you kids in their homeland. FZ have chosen to confine the allowance to schools only within the UAE.......(the government want you to spend your money here rather than sending it home). This is OK for Junior School as the Junior Schools are very good. However, the Senior schools in the UAE have a poor reputation and it could be very expensive mistake for your kids in later life if they end up at a poor senior school in the UAE.

Dubai is also expensive. Many items costs 30% more than in the US or Europe even after VAT...it’s allegedly tax free but the base price of most things is far higher than it would be outside the UAE. On average our shopping basket costs 30% more. This includes everything from food through footwear, clothing, consumables, electronics etc. Cars and fuel are however cheap.

This is a company that provided literature at the interview which categorically said “You are entitled to concessional tickets on the Flydubai........and Emirates....”. This is untrue; there is ZERO discount on FZ travel......not even one dirham. And although Emirates concessional tickets are available they are almost impossible to use as there is no formal access to predicted loads.......how can you expect your wife to turn up at the airport with young kids, in your absence, without having the slightest idea whether the flight is under or overbooked? Unfortunately, despite being given literature that said concessionary travel was available, it’s not repeated in the contact.
And your parents will have to pay full fare tickets to visit you or their grandchildren.

There is no annual increment & when you return home you will start on year 1. The difference between a year 20 pilot and a year 15 pilot can be between AED25,000 and 50,000 pa!

It costs AED 25,000 to ship here and AED 28,000 to ship back.
You will pick up other considerable other one off costs.....curtains, white goods, selling vehicles at home.....

Another hidden cost is about AED7,500 pa for your family to return home each year.

Another hidden cost is about AED 3,000 pa for a family with kids for trips to the doctor / hospital.

There is NO compassionate leave for your parents.....you will miss their funeral. It only covers your children/wife. However, it appears as though the company will help, but only if it suits them.

The package also offers little or no compensation for the additional risks that occur when living in Dubai which simply would not be present in the US or Europe. Blood money can be payable should you be unfortunate enough to kill a pedestrian or be involved in an accident. Standard Blood Money, when found liable for causing a death, is AED200,000 and it’s also payable in varying amounts for damaged cause to a person’s body parts. Most insurance companies will pay the deceased directly but will then recover the amount from you! Some won’t pay at all in which case you can go to jail until the amount is paid. For other offences, you or your family can be asked to leave at any stage.

Other costs include losses on selling your cars when you leave Dubai and how much will it cost for white goods, curtains, setting up house when you return home?
And how do you go for an interview or sim ride?
When you do return you could possibly end up with a seasonal contract which would prove to be very expensive indeed if you end redundant at the end of the contract........you return to zero seniority when you return home.

The list goes on and on.

This is a very one sided post and there are many very good things about FZ and Dubai however, don’t come here on the hope of making more money than you could in the US or Europe. Only come here if you are unemployed or are from a politically unstable /dangerous country.

Rant over.

[boredbusdriver]

Anybody recently jumped ship from Ryanair to flydubai, any information would be greatly appreciated

[Vortex Thing]

Boredbusdriver

Anybody recently jumped ship from Ryanair to flydubai, any information would be greatly appreciated

We need a little more? I'm ex FR (not for very long I hasten to add) but a fair few years back. If you want to know if the grass is greener. Then we need to know if you are Capt or FO, which base your at in FR. Are you single or married, with or without kids, etc.

FZ has lots to offer but it comes at a cost and the cost is only worth it for some (will happily say many) but not all demographics.

So ask away and I'm sure those of us getting edgy about the onslaught of summer will be happy to help!

[boredbusdriver]

Hi vortex thing,

Currently an FO, single with no kids and in a uk base. I've got the hours for command in fr but a 5 3 roster in Southern Italy isn't very appealing.

Basically how long can u expect to wait for command?

Is the money enough to have a decent lifestyle down there, (decent appartment, good social life while putting a bit away each month.)

I've heard FOs can expect around 7.5-8k euros per month, do U get the full housing allowance if u managed to find cheaper accommodation (unlikely I know in dubai)

How many times a year could a trip back to Europe be planned, i see u get 42 days leave, is it difficult to get a couple of weeks at a time?


Cheers

[Rodolfo]

Hello guys !!!

What are the minimum requirements for an upgrade from FO to Capt in Flydubai?
How long time are FOs expending to become Capt?
How is the upgrade process?

Thks

[asteroid02]

You still get the full housing allowance even if you find a cheaper place and that is how a lot of single people make a bit of extra money. But even apartments are expensive now! Cheap 1 bed studio apartments are about AED60,000 pa while nice 1 bed studios in Downtown are more like 100,000 - 120,000 pa.

And you can take your leave as individual weeks which means you could potentially use EK staff travel to make it back to Europe occasionally.

As a single guy, the major hidden cost here will be the lack of pension. There is an End of Term Gratuity but it leaves you with a AED28,000 pa shortfall if you stay for less than 3 years. If you stay for longer you get a bigger gratuity but, even if you stay til you retire, it still leaves you with a AED20,000 pa shortfall!

Generally its a lot easier for single folk. FZ is not anti family but it damn well feels like it sometimes.......my wife is even unwelcome at the annual company party!

[2012]

Boredbusdriver, I sent you a PM

[Arewerunning]

Interested in the same info as rodolfo and boredbusdriver.

I am not flying the boeing though:ugh:

[Vortac1]

Guys, most (if not all) of that info is already on this thread. I'd strongly suggest to go ahead and read up the entire thing, worth your time. At least the last third of it for the most recent/relevant information, it will answer all your questions. Well worth it if you are considering FD.

As for those asking for interview tips, start on page 90 on this thread, there's some info on interviews there.

[Vortex Thing]

Boredbus

As an FO you are pretty much guaranteed 8,000€ Per month on average.

Re is the money enough. As a singly you will be laughing. You can live the life of Reilly and put £1000 a month in the bank at home if you come debt free. That will give you a very nice apartment, a very nice car and when your seniority lets you see daylight again a nice lifestyle.

Re Command 2-3 bank on 3 yrs likely you will interview around 2 - 2.5 yrs and promote within 6-8 months of interview. Thats currently where we are running at.

As a singly you will likely want an apartment so you will likely spend just under the allowance. The allowance is really misnamed it is basically pay but has been called an allowance for reasons previously explained. In essence it doesn't matter what you do with it, it is yours to pay the mortgage, spend on rent or keep. You get it in full every month or even in advance every 6 months should you choose.

Again on trips home. Leave must be taken in 7 day blocks. You get you leave allocation in Dec for the whole next year. As a junior FO ( seniority wise not the rank) you will not get the popular periods i.e Xmas, easter and school holidays but you will get all your leave and will get it more easily if you bid for off peak. I,e if you say you want 3 wks in october you will almost certainly get it. If you want two weeks covering xmas and new year then you are dreaming.

It gets better very very quickly i.e in 2-3 yrs you will choosing where and when you fly when you go on leave and what days off you have. The opposite of course being true when you join.

In answer you could have 3 two week trips home, 7 single week trips home or variations on the theme. As a singly it is very very easy, us married guys are more constrained to school holidays and getting home is very difficult sometimes.

If you have the hours for command in FR unless you have some burning desire to get out here. Command is command. Take the command get 500-1000 hrs LHS then think about where to go or what to do. I love our life here but many things are not within your control. So if something goes wrong here and you leave if you once had command you have more options.

Life in FR is horrible, FR is horrible but nothing is worth more than command time in this game, trust me give me a time machine and I would have made some very different choices back when I started my civilian flying!

Im not suggesting coming as a DEC as that is a policy that is to be discouraged but have the PIC 738 in the bag may be useful when you do need it down the line with a family to support and you find yourself unemployed. It will likely happen at some point in your career and it it doesn't forewarned is forearmed.

VT

[bigboyal]

Quick question to any FlyDubai FOs:

On average how much of the €7000-€8000 take home salary are you able to put away and save each month? (Assume married couple, no children, with an average lifestyle, decent accommodation and a nice car with maybe four trips back to the EU per year. No loans or debts back home.)

In my current role I'm saving around €1500 per month so would need to be putting away more than that to make the numbers stack up.

[Coupled_To_Me]

Is your wife planning on working?

[VeroFlyer]

So many variables to that question, depends on what your taste in motor cars is....as well as restaurants, bars, apartments, shops, etc. You can save a hell of a lot as a single guy or even a married couple with no kids, it just depends what sort of life you want here. I would suggest if you come here trying to skimp and save your not going to enjoy Dubai and neither is your partner.
It's a question of finding a balance.

[bigboyal]

Well I think it would be safer to assume that she wouldn't be working, so just one income stream.

With regards to choice of car, something with a V8 like a Mustang etc...

Tend to eat out 2-3 times a week and perfectly happy with the American chain restaurants. Other than that I'd be pretty much average in most respects - don't really drink or party to excess any more but have the occasional blow out.

[VeroFlyer]

Then you'll save more than 1500 euros a month. Just don't expect to come here from day one and start smashing it away. Talk to most people (myself included) and they'll tell you the first year in Dubai can be expensive with all the set up costs, rent up front etc. But after a year then you can most certainly expect to be saving a fair amount.

[sascha410]

You can save min 3000E and still live eg. in Dubai Marina or JBR, have a V8, eat out 3-4-5 times a week... And you can settle down fairly quickly I will say it will take you just couple of month. Good info on rent/buy/...anything can be obtained from dubizzle.

[Vortex Thing]

I think I would only slightly agree with Sascha there.

The dubizzle site is excellent for furnishing your apartment or villa. Its also good for used cars et al.

For property I wouldn't go near it with a bargepole. Suggest property finder.ae for a more balanced view.

Dubai Marina and JBR are an acquired taste and certain types of folk won't be quite so happy to live there as others. It would depend on the sort of background you are from, what you like to do and the pace of life you like to live. I know many a couple who live and love the marina I also know some who think it is their embodiment of hell who live and love DIFC and Old Town. The beauty is as a single FO is that the choice is yours.

I wouldn't go as far as to say you can put 3000¢ away easily unless you have been very fortunate and have no debt here or at home and live reasonably frugally.

This difference between myself and Sascha's point of view is likely again down to personally taste. I know Skippers and FOs here who think that 140,000AED is an expensive amount for a two bed apartment. I also know skippers here who happy to pay 200,000AED for a two bed apartment and don't think much off it.

If you are from London paying £2000 per month for a nice city centre apartment is not at all unreasonable in my eyes. If you wanted to live in a really nice apartment and earnt say £7000 spending £3000 per month wouldn't seem unreasonable if this is your main home and you are here to stay. I FOs who spend more than captains with 3 children on accommodation.

Well what is that in AED basically it is 18,000AED per month or 216,000AED per year. I also know that there are reasonably senior captains with their wives and children in apartments for 90,000AED pa.

So the lifestyle that you choose has a huge effect on your disposable income and hence of course on what you can save. It al depends on what you think is a reasonable way to live your life.

My tuppence worth if you want to come here and make some money and plan on at least 5 yrs here then don't go living in a studio in Sharjah as you will soon tire of being here and feel very differently about the place. On the other hand unless you really are a true SW3, SW7 or broke Londoner then you likely don't need to go much past 120,000AED per year to find something of a good UK standard for a singly.

Please bear in mind this is my opinion and I have a friend who is skipper from Bulgaria who thinks that anyone spending over 75,000AED per year is mad. Personally I have never seen anything anywhere apartment or villa that I would live in for less than 120,000AED if life gets does get so expensive that I have to move the family into an apartment then I wouldn't be here for long!

[G SXTY]

Like what Mr. Thing says.

I've been here less than a year, so still recovering from the start up costs, but €1500 per month is about what I have budgeted for savings. That's based on the wife not working, no kids and a pretty decent 2 bedroom apartment in the Marina costing around AED 140k per year. We eat out once or twice per week and don't buy into the 5-star Dubai lifestyle.

As others have said, it all depends on the sort of lifestyle you want here. A single person, living frugally, could probably save €2-3000 per month. If you get blingy with your accommodation, car, shopping, brunches etc, and especially if you have a wife and kids to support, you could quite easily blow the lot.

[Rodolfo]

So, and about a family with wife that doesn't work, two children (17 and 10 years old) that will have to study in an international school?
How much money we can save, if this is anyway possible.. or.. How much money I'll have to complete to afford the Dubai life cost?
Thks

[Vortex Thing]

Rodolfo

That is close to my current demographic and the vast majority of the pilots here who I know well are the same (i.e wife not working or very low paid part time) and two children under 19. A smattering of them have 3 children but the vast majority have two mostly in junior (that is under 12yrs old for UK system)

As an FO (WITH NO DEBT) you get paid enough to live a reasonable life in a nice house and break even.

It is possible to save something but very very little i.e $500 per month would be good. To save more you have to sacrifice something. So reduce your accommodation costs by living in a less desirable area, stay in more, choose not to have a maid, choose not to have pets, don't do Extra Curricula Activities for the children, no holidays, and get rid of anything that is a cost in your home country
. (i.e if you have a house it must be rented or sold at home not empty for when you need it)

As a CAPT again (WITH NO DEBT) then you are 15,000AED per month better off so basically you wait 2-3 yrs get your command and then you can do the things you sacrificed before.

Suddenly family holidays, that nicer car and a new bike for the kids is not hmmm maybe next year. It is something you can do at the time. That investment property back home can be added to/bought/traded up etc.

Basically your life is fine as an FO but do not expect to save anything if you want to have a reasonable life but you can offset that as a skipper. If you have stuff that needs paying off at home then factor that in and it is fairly likely that you will end up with 5,10 or even 15,000AED per month deficit unless you reduce something. Some/most things cannot be reduced substantially so your options are take a loan pay it all off and likely reduce your sources of irritation OR live on credit until you get upgraded. (I think one of these to be more sensible than the other) but it is all personal choice.

Suffice to say yes you can live as a family of 4 on an FOs salary but not indefinitely!

Have a good weekend
VT

[Rodolfo]

Vortex Thing.

Thanks for your post.
So, that is exactly what I was imagining. Some sacrifice to achieve a better position after.

Thanks a lot.

[asteroid02]

I couldn't agree with Vortex Thing more.......its not the money spinner that people think.
People forget there is no pension when they say that they can save every month..........you will have to use about 400 Euros per month of your own money to compensate for the lack of company pension (and that's calculated with taking the gratuity in to account).
And there are lots of other hidden costs as well.....see my earlier thread on these costs.
If you are unemployed or a political refugee then its a good move!!

[A6FDB]

Long time reader first time poster.

After having been here for just over 2 years this is my two cents,

I came from a low paying turboprop job with no light in the end of the tunnel so I made the leap to the Middle East. Joining today it will take approx 3 years to command. You won't see daylight for the first 18 month as an F/O and your take home pay will be average 35000+ aed.

2 bed flat (not in marina or down town) will set you back 120-130,000 aed
2 bed house or flat (marina or downtown) 140-160,000 aed
3 bed house 180,000+ aed

Restaurants are fairly cheap but groceries are very expensive. Cars can be very cheap to own. Buy used from the dealerships that offer warranty and service (easier to get a loan from the bank and usually cheaper than dubizzle, and if it goes wrong you can drive there and shout at people).

I manage to save 1000 usd/month. Hoping to make that 3,000 when I get my fourth stripe. You can have a good life in Dubai and save a bit of cash, but things are getting a lot more expensive recently and FDB are not paying me any more than they did 2 years ago.

Friends of mine got 15% inc on basic and 20% on housing but they don't work for the government. (Locals who do had up to 100% inc in December to cover the increasing cost of Russian ladies amongst other things).

Dubai gov't orders 30-100% pay rise for staff - Banking & Finance - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/dubai-gov-t-orders-30-100-pay-rise-for-staff-531354.html#.U4lzzSe9KSM)

Would I recommend anyone to come?

Yes IF you can look the other way when you see people being treated worse than dog****, don't get to stressed driving amongst Indians, if you have children don't expect to save any money as an F/O and like night flying.

[FlyingTinCans]

PBS has made the rosters much much better. To say you will be doing nothing but night flights for 18 months is an over exaggeration in my experience. 10 - 12 days off a month, with 60 to 70 block hours and some day & some night flying is achievable within your first year now - if you learn how to use PBS.

I also came from Turboprop and am less tired on an FZ roster than on my old regional roster, and even with me topping up a pension myself I save quite a lot more money too and enjoy a lifestyle that I could only dream of back home.

Moving to FZ or any airline in the Middle East isn't just a career choice it's also a lifestyle choice for you and your family. Some guys forget that, come here then realise they don't like Dubai, don't like the Middle East , don't like the lifestyle and then end up hating the job.

As for how much you will save, that is entirely person dependent, there are lots of ways on google to accurately budget the lifestyle you want/can afford here, things are getting more expensive in Dubai (just like every other major city in the world) and the pay/allowance increases that FZ are giving are not keeping up so account for that too.

[flydream1982]

Ok,pardon my ignorance,but you guys only save 1000$ a month???
Let's say you get 35000aed/40000aed a month all in,married (wife not working) with no kid,and rent a 1bedroom apartment for 110000aed/120000aed a year,surely you can save at least 3000$ a month,can't you?

[A6FDB]

This month my take home was 35600 working 50h without leave.

Rent 10000
Car 7000 (paid of in sep, So in sep I will be able to save around 12000 aed/month but that's 2 years in)
Dewa 1000
Salik + petrol + insurance 700
Phone + internet 700
Flights home around 20,000 p.a. 1500/month

Total costs 20900

35000 - 20900 approx 14000 = 3800 USD

Anyone who manages to live of less than 1000 USD for 2 and not eating cat food in DXB I salute them. I have a better lifestyle than I had back home and my hobbies cost more but hey I'm planning on staying for a while and I'd hate the place if I didn't. But on the other hand I know single guys who don't save a penny so I must say I'm better off.

I'd recommend anyone who was in the same situation as me to come, but don't expect to save 3000$ a month unless you live as a hamster in international city.

[WFZ]

For sure we like all to talk about money, but its really difficult almost impossible to save money with family as F/O in FDB.......the other main question is, what will happen at your salary if you need to stay out of work for sick leave for 4 months ? think about it.:D
PBS....i dont think any other company in the world would consider to have some pilots working 7 or 8 days flying the same destinations with long-day-light flights and the other pilots working 18-22 days with short and long flights almost in the night.:ugh:

[bahamaboy1974]

I'm a turboprop pilot with over 10,000 hrs, the problem that i find for me is the fact that i don not have any jet time and the company that i work for takes years to upgrade, i've been right seat on this dash-8 for 10 years with no upgrade in sight. how do i get pass this hurdle without any jet time. would love to move to the middle east

[what-to-do]

WFZ

I read your post with interest. Tell me, which of these points were kept from you during the application process and subsequent interview?

You can't tell me that you were not informed that flydubai was a seniority based airline? You complain about having to fly a mixture of short and long flights..... are you seriously complaining about that?

With respect to the night flying, you have to understand that the people above you in seniority, who you seem to begrudge, have already spent 4-5 years doing the very same as what you are now. This is not preferential treatment, this is a perk, which is earned after being at FZ for a few years. You will, I'm sure, be in the very same position soon, and I expect I won't hear you complain then.

Seeing as PBS was only implemented in Nov '13, it is fair to say that we have put up with 'horrible' rostering for much longer than you have thus far. Believe me, prior to PBS things were much worse.

[Voodoo 3]

the people above you in seniority, who you seem to begrudge, have already spent 4-5 years doing the very same as what you are now

That'll be me then. Came at the beginning and if anyone wants to see the rosters that I flew even last summer before PBS kicked in, even being one of the most senior pilots in the company then they are welcome. It'll look just like what all the guys with low seniority are complaining about know. I have done well over my share of night flights and 18-30 hour rest periods over time. As has been explained before, the seniority structure of PBS is partially a reward for those who have stuck out the dark days of poor rostering and now if we can never fly when the sun has set and take 15 plus days off a month then we shall take it, gladly.

Don't forget that for those who still don't get what they think are good rosters be grateful you still have at least a say when you go flying, where and when you get your days off. Before PBS, all we could request was two days off and no destinations or time to go flying, at least its something now to have some control.

Also to a degree it is not PBS that gives someone a poor schedule but the person who has bid in the first place. I have heard of some dreadful bidding requests and then these guys wonder why they are always turning up in the middle of the night to go flying. It's just like an FMC, you put rubbish in, you get rubbish out. Learn how to use the system to your advantage. Bid as towards you seniority, bid effectively and you may just surprise yourself!

Believe me, prior to PBS things were much worse.

Yes they were and as I have have tried to explain above if the guys think they are stuck only on night duties and the dross that no-one else wants, if they give it even two years then their seniority will only go up as people may leave and more aircraft arrive. It took me well over four years to get any sort of roster control so if you others have to do maybe only three years to get the same then consider yourselves in a very good position.

Man up, get on and enjoy the flying and be honest if you have to bitch about the schedule while down at the beach clubs (we've all been!), having got free entry and then getting 40% off lunch with EPC while the kids are having fun splashing around in the pool, then tell me, how bad really is it here…...

[asteroid02]

Another hidden cost is in the price of Electricity and Water...........mine cost AED 6,000 pa more than they would back home.......the houses have absolutely zero insulation and the glazing is low quality without argon or neon filling.

Prices per Kwh are lower than they are back home but I use a huge amount more Kwh here because the climate is so extreme and insulation is not used houses in the UAE.

I live in one of the smaller villas and, being very careful with the air con, have averaged AED 16,200 pa for Electricity and Water (Gas is not used here except in bottle form for cooking).

[A6FDB]

PBS does work for anyone who was in the company when it was introduced, and it works a treat amongst the F/O's. I happen to be one of the privileged that work 8-9 days a month and never sees the early hours of the clock anymore. And I am currently enjoying 16 days off in a row without any leave.

But looking at my colleagues rosters now they have it worse than what I did pre PBS. Mostly because the flying before was varied. I got some long some short and some day some night. The guys with staff numbers of 2500 have all short all night with very little options for improvement.

Now with 2 years in the company that has doubled in size over the last 2 years I'd only have about 40 people below me as a skipper and would go back to all nights and morning KBL. Now for me that's fine because in 2 years time I'd get a decent roster but the same can't be said for FO's starting today. Anyone who starts today and plan to upgrade would look at 8 year's before any decent roster looking at the same expansion rate. So it's not as fair as you make it out to be.

But hey if won't affect me for long so I won't care about the rest of my colleagues then. Im all for PBS but the fact that I work 8 days/month and can get 16 days off in a row when someone who started a year after me enjoys the 0320 KBL and the next day a 2100 Bishkek shows its slightly broken.

[Old King Coal]

Fwiw (and to help spell it out for those whom were not here, i.e. when this sort of rostering was the norm) here's an example of a FZ roster from mid-2010 and pre-AIMS (note well the number of duties with rest periods / rest hours in, or v.close to the, 'to-be-avoided', 18-30 hour period). What we have today - via PBS - bares little or no resemblance to this.

http://tinyurl.com/kpwyo93

[LostinT2DXB]

Wow OKC, thats a trip down memory lane. ATZ, Don't miss that dump of an airport!

[WFZ]

Probably i was misunderstood, i believe in seniority and i dont complain at all about my roster, and i m vary far to feel envious ....what i m saying is, for me its just a little bit unfair having people working in such different way. We are talking about to be senior in a company 5 years old and having people with a big difference in roster with just 2 years difference in seniority.
Results= you can fly with Cpt called on stby to do 4 sector and telling you "this is just a waste of time" :=
Seniority its a good think but working 7-8 days in a month to fly what you want ....its not what i desire.
To conclude, for me its more important to know what will happen to my salary if i need to stay out of work for any sick reason after 45 days ....do you know? ......well salary and allowances = 0

[vfr on top]

Seems like a very 'I'm alright jack' attitude taken by some of our colleagues. So the fact that these harsh, tiring, inefficient, dangerous and unsafe rosters are now being done by others is ok now? The same rosters you were whinging and complaining that were unsafe. Are they not unsafe anymore?

So to my colleagues flying 8 days a month, completing 80 hours and all during daylight hours, would you not like to see a fairer system? One that gives everyone a fair shot?

[flydream1982]

Man up, get on and enjoy the flying and be honest if you have to bitch about the schedule while down at the beach clubs (we've all been!), having got free entry and then getting 40% off lunch with EPC while the kids are having fun splashing around in the pool, then tell me, how bad really is it here…...

Do you guys really get free entry at the beach clubs with the EPC?

[what-to-do]

VFR on top,

You have completely missed the point!

Not so long ago, before PBS, the rosters were much worse, very much worse, than anything the PBS system is awarding now.

What low seniority pilots here at FZ are getting now is still not as bad as we had in the dark old bad days.

It isn't going to change, so at some point, you're either going to have to live with it or vote with your feet...... by which time you'll probably be senior enough to stop moaning!

:ugh:

[High Energy]

PBS is here and here to stay so make sure you understand the system. I see sooo many guys ending up with crappy rosters and when you see their bid list it's easy to understand why.

I'm junior here but since the PBS introduction the rosters are phenomenal. (no joke) You just need to know what works for your seniority. And yes I do my fair share of nights...so what.

[Old King Coal]

vfr on top: wrt "The same rosters you were whinging and complaining that were unsafe. Are they not unsafe anymore?", there are two parts to your question:

1) Was it unsafe? Yes, imho, the rosters 'way-back-when' were often unsafe, albeit that they were always ‘legal', e.g. just look at the Rest Periods within that roster that I've posted (above) and go figure just how tired you'd be with such sympathetic Rest Periods as those?!… and that particular roster was far from being a one-off, i.e. we endured that sort of thing for years! Indeed so concerned were some of us, that at least one of us (:O) filed a ROSI with the GCAA about it; and be well advised that that - in the environment we're in here - takes some serious balls!

2) Is it still unsafe? Uhm, that’s never an easy question to answer; Perhaps a better question would be “Has it got better, and is it getting better?”. On both counts for that latter question, I’d say, "Yes!". And before you say “Yeah, but you would say that, i.e. a bloody ‘A’ scaler sitting at the top of the bid”, I would point out that a couple of months back, I managed to miss the deadline to enter my bids into PBS (:ugh:) but, nevertheless, the roster I got was still massively better than the ones we endured in the years gone by. QED?!

You’ve got to put it into the context of where we were, versus where we are now, and where things are going in the future. It is without any doubt that PBS has improved our lot and our lifestyle; and trust me when I say that if they were to ditch PBS and return to the non-PBS system, there would be an exodus, and it’s much for that reason that PBS was introduced, i.e. to prevent an exodus (and I suspect especially so of the more 'senior' pilots)!

And here's an interesting proposition: You might recall, from a little while ago, that the pilots were asked to produce a summary of their flying experience, i.e. hours on type / total hours. Uhm, now why was that (really)?
There's a suggestion out there that the GCAA (and probably also the aircraft Insurers) were becoming 'concerned' that the company might be suffering a 'dilution' of its overall experience level, i.e. what with all the new Cmd upgrades coming on stream, plus significant numbers of previously un-type-rated pilots joining the company, and therein the question was asked about what is the average experience level, and what are FZ doing to ensure that the experience levels stay strategically high?... always remembering that the last thing anybody wants is an incident / accident with the word 'Dubai' written somewhere down the side of it!
Of course with T&C's not exactly keeping pace with the costs of living in Dubai, there needed to be found a method to help with 'retention' (especially so of the folks with very high levels of experience on the B737, i.e. typically ones 'senior' pilots / the early joiners)... and the easiest (and cheapest) way to do that is to introduce PBS, i.e. it's an almost instant lifestyle win for the 'senior' pilots, and one that certainly helps with their retention, all whilst the new joiners are held captive by their bond.
Whilst this aforementioned suggestion might be pure speculation, it might certainly be said to have a level of plausibility to it.

[vfr on top]

What to do

you are missing the point. So I ask you again, would you like to see a fairer system for everyone? Or are you happy with your roster so f*** everyone else?

For the record, I have been here long enough to get around 50% of my bids. I was around with the old roster. It is better now yes. BUT how you can justify some of the workforce getting 8 days off a month while others work only 8 days per month? It's inefficiency crewing wise, completely unfair and most importantly unsafe. I am senior enough to be happy with my roster compared to the dark old days but remember it is still the dark old days for some.

The attitude of you 'senior' guys is quite upsetting. I don't want to work 8 days a month I want us all to have a shot at a good roster.

And I believe yes it will change. I've heard it mentioned that a fairer system is being looked at and on the way by the end of the year. So enjoy it while you can....

[Voodoo 3]

It's inefficiency crewing wise, completely unfair and most importantly unsafe.

How inefficient crewing wise? Every flight is covered and everyone or far more than most at least is getting more time off than before PBS.

Unfair? Unfair how? You put the time in, you'll get seniority, you'll get more chance to bid for the plumb trips.

Unsafe? Unsafe how? Please don't throw out the regular line that we have low timed pilots flying together on all nighters etc. There was a time when we started places like Kabul and Kathmandu. Neither of the operating pilots had been there but we read the brief, kept to SOP's and just got on with it.
Each upgraded pilot here has got their seat having been through a thorough interview, assessment flights and many sim details. Not everyone has passed so it's fair to say that each one is worthy of their seat. Everyone has been through the same training and while one could argue that experience does vary through the workforce, to say that it is unsafe I don't believe is a fair statement.

PS, I don't know who is working 8 days a month (not me thats for sure), and if they can PBS well enough to get it then good for them.

OKC, that 0120 report four sector duty:yuk:. Anyone at FZ who never operated that duty has no grounds to say that PBS is failing them. That duty could (and maybe did) bring grown men to tears…:{ And even though we had seniority, we couldn't wriggle out of it back in a non PBS life!!

[what-to-do]

VFR on top,

you're seemingly one of a very small bunch of people who just want to complain. I'm not a 'senior' pilot and I certainly don't get all my bids, and yes I work the occasional night flight too. When you mention that my attitude upsets you, oh please! Firstly, I'm not a senior pilot, I just accept the way it is and respect the contract I signed. Secondly, you appear to be complaining on other peoples behalf! Let them speak up, don't they have a voice?

More specifically, I don't see that many pilots working 8 days per month with 22 days off, but if they do, good on them. To be honest, that's where I want to be, and I'm prepared to wait my turn.

I have friends who are right at the top of the seniority (not trainers), who DON"T get all their bids either and, DON"T work 8 days per month, even though they would love to. So the pilots you're referring to must be a very small number indeed, if at all any.

What about the rest of us, the people not at the top who are extremely happy with PBS? Take it away, and I'm outta here!

One more point, if you're getting 50% of your requests why are you complaining?

[LostinT2DXB]

It always amazes me how the socialism train is never late......

Why should a DEC who just walked in off the street have any better roster than the guys who put in 5+ years at this place? Some of you talk about a "more fair system", but what does that mean? Share days off equally? Why??? More importantly, HOW??? The company tried "fair allocation" and it DIDN'T work! People abused the system, bought their rosters! Over my long stint with this company I maybe did one long day flight a month, usually every 3rd month, while new guys were given flights I could never touch. Pure seniority PBS with ZERO meddling from crew planning is the only fair way to award rosters, and reward company loyalty/longevity at the same time. If you want rotating seniority please feel free to apply at EK. Our seniority is diluted enough with our vacation bidding system. Honestly some of you guys live in a socialist pixie dust fairy land where all things can be equal. Again, if you like how some other company awards its monthly roster, please quit and go there! Also, try to understand this isn't some 10 airplane operation where we are all "best chaps" and hang out at the pub after a rotation! For the most part this airline is made up of freelancers who will probably last a few years and quit to go elsewhere chasing the next big contract. Again, why should the people who earn the seniority by staying here give up anything to a guy who just walked in off the street???:ugh:

[pole shift]

It is really amazing... When someone brings up the subject of PBS and expresses his thoughts as a less senior pilot in this company, then the same people 'attack' him like vultures, to tell him off, and give him the lecture about how they suffered and how much sorrow their roster brought into their lives.
One can easily look back on the thread only to see people moan for the ex chief pilot or the ex safety manager, or whatever.
But now, hey, that's history and we, old timers in this company can have a lough when we get 20 - 22 days off, and hang out in the pub 3 times a week, or go to the beach hotel with our EPC card every Friday and Saturday.
And also don't forget to look at PPRUNE and check if someone is bringing up PBS, since, you never know, someone in the company's management might see that a lot of people are complaining, and decide to do something about it, make sure we tell him off, so we rest assured that our sovereignty and prerogatives are never in question.
:D

[LostinT2DXB]

It's not a Jr pilot vs Sr pilot issue. Honestly, I think those complaining about PBS don't really understand what they are truly complaining about. Seniority is a tenet of this profession, get over it......

[what-to-do]

Pole shift,

Yet another person that doesn't read posts completely. If you're referring to the person above 'VFR on top', then he or she admits that they are not a junior pilot and that they get 50% of their PBS bids. Their issue is that they want to fight for the junior pilots here at FZ, and make it 'fair' for everyone.

I have made it clear that I am not a senior pilot, BUT, I respect the seniority scenario and the contract I signed.

There is no 'attack' on anyone here, freedom of speech etc. However, there is a difference of opinion and furthermore, a rather weak argument against PBS.

As for your post, it seems more like a rant than a constructive argument. What exactly is your point? We disagree with the post, period!

Just how many people do you know with 22 days off?

[Vortex Thing]

I have 6 flights and 2 standbys and 22 days off. This month. So now you know someone who sctually has that!

I know chaps getting rostered better!

Old King Coal is not only a merry old soul he is also on the money. As are Voodoo, Pole, LostinT2 and Asteroid!

So VFR whilst I'm not saying that the majority are always right. There does seem to be more who get that this is not about "I'm alright Jack" as reward for longevity.

We have no incremental pay scale and no other reward, so am I happy that some pilots are flying 22 days a month with 8 days off when I'm not?

Errm yes I am as it builds a stronger airline for the future as the more senior end has more to loose by leaving as they wont get that sort of roster elsewhere. That means better retention of those experienced in FZ which is good for the company in the long term.

Rentention is always cheaper than recruitment and the double bonus being stability is good from a training perspective that means more money in the pot. That will be the pot belonging to the company that we are all in together.

Right don't we have a party to get ready for?

[fliion]

VT

A reminder of life in your Disney-world.

The stories of children behind bars at Dubai Women's Prison (http://7daysindubai.com/stories-children-behind-bars-dubai-womens-prison/)

f.

[vfr on top]

No party for me I'm on a night flight....

Right so we can knock this argument on the head that no one gets 22 days off??
I'm not making this stuff up, I wish I was!

You're saying you should be rewarded for longevity? It's a 5 year old airline for goodness sake. That's hilarious!

As I mentioned, I am not looking for 'dec's who come off the streets' as you so eloquently put it, to get better rosters then you 'old timers' who have been here for 5 years or so. I am asking for it to be fair. We are all out here, away from home trying to better our family or social lives. So why should you get to be off for 22 days to spend with your family and or even commute. While others slave away in the deepest darkest of nights dat after day? Why because you've been here for 2 years longer then the next guy? Give me a break.

You just sound very defensive and almost a little fearful of losing this system that is really looking after a small number of you.. So stop waving your rosters around the crew room bragging about how good it is and spare a thought for the poor sod and who's just come in from another night flight.

22 days off, I mean seriously..... :confused::confused:

[Vortex Thing]

Fliion

So let me get this right. My advocating that our seniority based system is fair means that I support everything that happens in a country that is not a democracy, that I cannot vote in, that I can currently never become permanently resident in and that coincidentally you also live in?

From the information I have to hand any of the 3 million expats living in Dubai, including yourself are therefore party to the same crime.

Suggest you may want to go to the corner and have a word with yourself old chap.

Back to the thread VFR

Seniority is a very simple and very fair concept. 5 yrs or 50 yrs old is irrelevant as if someone joins one week before you they have more time in the airline than you and vice versa. I am not defensive, i simply think it fair! If the company change the system then that is their right. Whatever the system as long as it is fair then that is what matters. I do not think that someone who made a commitment to come here X years ago should be treated the same as someone who arrives today. I also think a system where everyone shares the same workload with no possibility of improvement is cloud cuckoo land as there is no incentive to stay loyal to the airline.

Service should be rewarded somehow or we become mere wage slaves waiting for another airline to offer better Ts and Cs. Fliion et al ( see the EK BONDING THREAD) would have us believe that we are all simply mercenaries who go to whomever gives the best package. Well guess what the mgt have found a way to reward you without increasing the budget. How about that!

No firm I ever joined gave us school holidays, weekends, religious holidays OFF immediately normally when you are new you are at the bottom of the leave pile and work pile no different to life 30 years ago in school.

Lunch bell goes off, 6 th formers go and eat whatever they fancy. Then 5 bells signals the 5 th form and so on until the 1 st formers go in ten minutes before the end of lunch and have whatsoever is left. The 1st form know that they the smallest and youngest get the worst or unwanted choices as that is their place but guess what the next year they move to the 2nd form and so on until they about to go to uni in 6 th form age 18 are the top of there food chain. Guess what preparation for real life!

And funny old thing they then go to university where they are bottom of the pile again as they are freshers and move on up the pile until they are in final year and are seniors again more perks!

Then yet another institution do you think soldiers sailors and airmen are treated the same way in basic training that they are treated after years of service.

Seniority has its privileges, so it has been, so it should be and long may it continue to be!

[nakbin330]

Relax VFR, a system like this will never last. Either the system will go or FZ will. 22 days off is a serious lack of productivity in anyone's book.

[Old King Coal]

flilion: not sure quite what has your post got to do with price of fish and / or FZ and / or the subject matter in hand? Though, in response, in many respects the details within the article you've linked to, seem little different to the situation wrt women's prisons in (say) the UK (https://www.gov.uk/life-in-prison/pregnancy-and-childcare-in-prison). Basically, "If you can't do the time, then don't do the crime!", and especially so if you're the mother to young children.

vfr on top: One would imagine that you wear Serengeti sunglasses, i.e. the ones with those nice rose tinted lenses? Fwiw, I too have a pair, but I use mine for keeping the desert sun out of my eyes. It's for sure that you've not been here long enough to know the full history of it all (indeed, as far as one can tell, you've not even been in airline aviation all that long, have you?!), but, suffice to say, PBS was always on the cards; e.g. even being muted for implementation prior to day 1, wherein I can still recall KennyG telling us that PBS would be implemented (that was during our interview, back in Oct 2008, i.e. back when you, vfr, were still looking for your first airline job). That said, the subsequent reason for delay in its implementation was put down to a need to achieve a sort of "critical mass" in terms of aircraft & crew numbers (yes, that was the phrase that was used; uhm, what an amazing memory I have!). So, vfr, I suspect a few more decades in airline aviation will eventually tarnish your tinted glasses, just as it has done for most of us who've been in this business a LOT longer than you!

nakbin330: It will last, indeed just as much as the same Seniority based systems have lasted in all those USA airlines (i.e. where our management hail from), and likewise the same exact same seniority based systems in the likes of BA, Lufthansa, etc, have lasted... the flying program is being fully covered (we even have people on Standby, forsooth!) and, if there's any shortfall in the hours being achieved by the aircrew, that's more a function of the Commercial Dept than anything to do with Rostering. Just by doing some simple maths, maths which I'm sure even you can understand (albeit that one assumes that you also understand the rules defined with Part 'A' / Section 7 ?), it goes like this: If someone were to have 22 days off, in a month with 30 days = 8 days available to fly various routes. If those routes have a total block time, per duty, of 10½ hours (and we do indeed have flights that will provide that level, or more, of block hours per duty) then, hey presto, you've done 85 block hours... which, I'm sure you'll appreciate, is the block-hour figure that the system likes to roster us to per month, because that then ties in nicely with the 900 blocks hours limit per annum (what with accounting for annual leave, sim sessions, recurrent ground school, etc). It's not exactly f'ing rocket science, is it ?!

Fwiw, I too will not be attending this evenings 'office' soirée, because 1) I'm flying tomorrow, and 2) the date of this jaunt is usually broadcast so late in the proceedings that, as air-crew, it's very hard to plan for in advance (even with a high seniority number :rolleyes:), and 3) the best party was the first one, i.e. the BBQ we had on the roof of the Marriott = legend!... and anything else would pale into insignificance in comparison, as those whom were there will surely testify! :)

[LostinT2DXB]

Yes, seriously:ugh:

You want a more fair system? Please describe how it would work? What is fair to some might not be fair to the rest. How do you make it more fair and exclude the DECs as you seem to want? When does someone start to be important enough to have a "privileged roster" at a company? Is it after probation, 1 year, 2 years, or maybe 4 years of service??? Seniority is pretty straightforward to understand, at least for most. As previously pointed out, our vacation bidding is a socialist system. Everyone should enjoy getting some good choice of leave that your true seniority probably can't hold.

Here is why the company can't return to the fair allocation system used previously: ASR's regarding fatigue. If you look at ASRs prior to PBS implementation there were a significant number dedicated to fatigue related issues with rosters every month, probably around 20% if I were to hazard a guess. After looking over the last two months batches of ASRs, guess how many ASRs mentioned fatigue. Come on, take a guess! ZERO! Not a single ASR mentioning fatigue. What that says is that the system is astoundingly better than what we lived under for the last 4+ years. But please, go to the CP meetings, schedule time with the COO and tell them they are wrong and this system doesn't work. Please tell them that the 5 year guys who started the airline, did proving runs, sat around on 15 standbys every month during the first year have not earned ANYTHING. Maybe you should enlist the help of crew planning in your quest for a fair system :} The original pilots are not special, seriously, just a bunch of nice average guys like most at this company. The difference is they were hired first! Everyone comes after them, it's called SENIORITY! At this company when an FO upgrades they get to keep their place on the master list. Do you have any idea how much that torques off the DECs? Maybe the DECs will protest enough to change that system to make it more fair?? You can't change one aspect and not expect it to affect another aspect of the system. Example: remember that genius survey to split vacation bidding into two parts during the year? Sounded great until the full plan was made clear that we would have to bid 3 weeks before the end of June and 3 week post June!

Disclaimer:
I like our vacation bidding system just the way it is.
FOs have earned their place on the seniority list and it doesn't matter what seat you sit in, date of hire is date of hire.
PBS IS AWESOME! :D

[Voodoo 3]

PBS being run by seniority whether you love it or hate it is in my mind here to stay.

Even if you are really junior and you have a not so good schedule, isn't it great to know that just a couple of years if you put the time in and creep slowly up the ladder then you too will be able to enjoy far more flexibility about where you fly, whats days etc. Seems like a great incentive to stay to me!

VFR, sure you'll be bleating later about how its OK for everyone else to be at the party but you'll be the only one keeping the company flying tonight! Do one more year and then come and tell us how your roster has changed for the much much better. If you leave in that time then do please also tell us how you have joined another airline and even if it does have PBS, you'll either be at the bottom and have to climb again or it'll be rolling seniority like EK and you'll NEVER get away from all those duties that you would hope to leave behind.

the best party was the first one, i.e. the BBQ we had on the roof of the Marriott = legend!... and anything else would pale into insignificance in comparison, as those whom were there will surely testify!

Truly it was! Those Brazilian meats:ok:, still salivating at the thought of those!! Have looked at the pictures way back when we were young, keen and all smiles! What a difference five years makes, haha!;)

To be fair King, this was the first year they brought out the date of the party before the PBS/RDO cut off date so was able to plan this year.

[skysod]

I'll keep my post short.......PBS Rules OK......now off to the chilled pool!! :):)

[WFZ]

We are talking about to be senior in a company 5 years old and having people with a big difference in roster with just 2 years difference in seniority.
Results= you can fly with Cpt called on stby for 4 sector and telling you "this is just a waste of time" :=
I agree that's the cheapest way to refrein senior to leave the company and we are talking about nothing.
For me its more importante that you guys pay attention during all your days off and dont slip coming out from your chilled pool......if you need to stay out of work for any sick reason after 45 days ....i m sure you know what will happen to your salary......:oh::D

[fliion]

The employees of FZ work for the same people that own, operate and pay for that prison...so when I come across perky, giddy exuberance ...I raise an eyebrow.

f.

ps. BA/FR etc do not own & operate HMs prisons.

[LostinT2DXB]

Sure fliion. Maybe it's better to follow the church's example :yuk:

Mass grave of 796 babies found in septic tank at Catholic orphanage in Tuam, Galway - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/mass-grave-of-796-babies-found-in-septic-tank-at-catholic-orphanage-in-tuam-galway-30327483.html)

Every society or period in time has its sins......

[skysod]

In the UK they say "prison doesn't work"..... I've always believed thet prison does work......it's releasing people early that doesn't work........and prison certainly works out here!!

[fliion]

Lostin - that would be a good response if I worked for the same people who operated that facility.

f.

[LostinT2DXB]

If you want to hang your hat on that..... Looks like a clean facility for people who broke the law and put their (unborn) children in bad spot. Blame the country and not put the responsibility on the individual is your motto? Not very American if you ask me :eek:

Anyway, you don't work here so please stop rubbernecking. You are just causing a traffic jam.......:ugh:

[fliion]

Extraordinary - defending the long term incarceration of an innocent child over compassionately releasing and deporting the mother - tells me the FZ indoctrination program is fine tuned...

...right, back to the big boys thread.

f.

[Old King Coal]

fliion: do us all a favour and **** off, you're in no position to take any moral high ground !

[JAARule]

Since there's about five families and they're all related or inter-related and own everything, I guess we ALL work for the people who own and operate Everything. Why pick on one prison?

And who cares anyway - I'm more worked up about FD getting 22 days off a month and we're slaving away. A good start would be FD doing ALL OMDB's night turn-arounds especially india. Yeah....

All in favour?

[what-to-do]

OKC,

I second that motion. :D

Fliion, I think you meant back to the chasing boys thread.....

[LostinT2DXB]

Has nothing to do with my employer and everything to do with zero respect for drug smugglers no matter the gender.

[Calmcavok]

As someone mentioned recently in this moribund Middle East section: "nothing makes an Emirates pilot more unhappy than a happy Emirates pilot." I think that can be expanded to "...and a happy FlyDubai pilot will put the Emirates pilot into counselling for the foreseeable"

Many friends very happy at FZ, especially with PBS. Lucky barstewards with their 80 hours in 8 days!

[vfr on top]

OKC I would have a lot more respect for you and your post if you could have refrained from resorting to insults. I've been in the airlines for 14 years and I have still managed to keep my rose tinted glasses. I call it positivity. Something that your miserable posts seem to lack. (whinge whinge whinge)

Ok I get it. The select few of you on this part time roster are happy. I know. I understand. Why wouldn't you be. I'm not arguing with that.

My issue is this. A handful of you are happy. We know that. But I am under the impression that a LOT of people are not. You are arguing that PBS is amazing. Yes it is, for YOU. But if the majority are unhappy with it and think it is unfair, would you like it changed to something that helps the WHOLE workforce and divides the flying to all of the crew? When I say fairer why not let us have a rolling bid system or something to that effect?

So back to my question, if the complaints are coming from the rest of the crew that they are tired, stressed, fatigued, it's dangerous etc etc (the same complaints you guys had only 7 months ago) would you give up your part time roster to help your colleagues? Would you vote that an equal system should be put in place?

Or 'I'm alright jack'

Judging by the angry responses above unfortunately I believe I know the answer already :(

My gripe is not with seniority. Reward longevity and loyalty yes. But at what cost? Dividing the crew up in to groups that are so exhausted verses a crew that has so much time off they don't know what to do with themselves is a bit overkill to the seniority system.

[Old King Coal]

VCR on top: you in airlines for 14 years, my arse (just look at your previous posts, back when when you were a snivelling wannabe) and since when was flydubai ever about being fair, you clearly do not get it, do you?!

[flyingcamel]

Some great info on here, and thanks to all for that. I'm heading out to Dubai for the final phase of selection soon and wondered if anyone had any recent experiences.

As far as PBS goes, I know that IF I join I will be in the same boat I was in when I joined my current airline; no weekends, last dibs at leave etc etc. However, I think the fleet is going to treble over the next 5 years or so, no? So anyone joining soon is quickly going to reap the benefits of rapidly inflating seniority.

The key to reaping the benefits of PBS will probably lie with the bidder, as any such system is bound to be extremely complex. And as I found out at my current airline, and many friends the same at BA (lucky buggers), it is important to try to fully understand the system and it's rules in order to benefit from it. I will be on the lookout for some very nice men who may take the time to explain it to me and offer tips and advice, which I would take gladly.

Anyway, just my tuppence worth. Enjoy the sunshine! :ok:

[LostinT2DXB]

Camel,

Hope you enjoy your visit to Dubai and are successful with FZ.

You would be surprised about the leave system. Most people get what they want out of it. Yes, as a new joiner after October you will get the left overs as that's when the bidding happens. As for PBS and weekends off, like you said it depends on the bidding. I actually try to work Fridays and Saturdays because I hate weekends in the city!

Good luck and all the best:ok:

[justclimb]

Hi guys,
I went through the selection process for type rated DEC in Nov13 at Dubai.I am in the holding pool with an expected joining date of third/fourth quarter 14. Anybody can throw some light on narrowing the window.Tried to get the info from Flydubai with no success.Appreciate :)

[VeroFlyer]

Never mind all this trivial talk about pay and life style...when are we getting a new uniform that's befitting of an airline pilot?!

[jetstreem]

I've actually taken to reading the BBC news website instead of our company ACNs for the latest updates on our route network. There always seems to be something on there! And usually not good...

BBC News - Gunmen kill 13 at Karachi's Jinnah International Airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27757264)

Hope no FZ crews were there at the time.

[High Energy]

How much was our housing allowance increase again? Certainly not 27.7%!

Bank warns Dubai of property bubble
Posted on » Monday, June 09, 2014

DUBAI: Low residential rental yields in Dubai may indicate growing imbalances and overheating in the real estate sector, the UAE's central bank said yesterday, in the first official warning about soaring property prices.

House prices in Dubai soared 27.7 per cent from a year ago in January-March, leading the global rankings for a fourth straight quarter, according to consultancy Knight Frank.

Link (http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=378752)

[captain.weird]

Some rumours about their cadet pilot programme?

[Old King Coal]

High Energy: Whilst one's far from sure which member of our esteemed leaders this is, they're sure doing an excellent job of demonstrating that tried & trusted management technique for dealing with the massive increases in Dubai's house & rental prices... and if you listen very carefully you can even hear the subterranean chant of "La La La, I can't hear you" !

http://wideofthemark.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/head-in-sand.jpg

[High Energy]

OKC, you made my day with that pic. :ok:

[overclock25]

Hi guys,
I would like to know if the selection process is still ongoing. I've applied as FO, but heard nothing at the moment.

Thanks a lot to everybody :)

[jetstreem]

And further to my last post (courtesy of the most reliable source of security info on the FZ route network)...

BBC News - Fresh militant attack near Karachi airport (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-27777449)

"No, no it's fine there... All the gulf carriers are operating in to Karachi. There's no problem. Off you go!"

Not good.

[High Energy]

They are doing something...my KHI just got cancelled. :ok:

Also in the news today;
Flydubai interested in flying to 35 Tier-II (secondary) airports in India.
Link (http://www.telegraphindia.com/1140610/jsp/business/story_18495657.jsp#.U5b8S8saySM)

[jetstreem]

Ok well that's good. I know the safety dept have a big area to cover and they're pretty good at it, all things considered. It's just more the nature of the route network I guess.

Keep your eyes open, and fly safe guys 'n gals!

[Sandrojet]

Hi guys,


I have my interview with CTC on the 17th. I was wondering if anybody wants to split a room and save some money. I'm staying at the Holiday Inn.

[High Energy]

This article doesn't specify the details of this new deal but one interesting line caught my eye.

flydubai currently uses 3,000 seats per week to India out of the 5,000 allotment.

Link (http://www.businessinsider.in/flydubai-Keen-To-Invest-In-An-Efficient-Indian-Airline/articleshow/36354514.cms)

[flyer19832007]

Have FZ changed the website for applications again?

I have applied before, but having seen they are advertising again, I went onto the website to update my application.....but they don't recognize me! :confused:

[NotsoEZY]

Does FZ have any form of protection for their pilots? In the 1st 4years since they started the exchange rate for the GBP has been approx 5.55dhs per GBP and now it's 6.4!!! That is a massive pay cut for all the expat Brits! I know EK has a mechanism but what about FZ?

[asteroid02]

Yes that's right, we are getting screwed by the exchange rate and these trends can take a decade or longer to revert back. Sadly I don't think it will revert to 5.85 until the next major recession or until Labour win an election, whichever the sooner!

Hopefully FZ will recognize this but they are happy to skimp on the housing, pension, education allowance, crap staff travel, the fact that your wife is unlikely to find work......

[Vortex Thing]

Errm it's really really easy for your wife to find work.

In fact there are so many jobs out there that Mrs VT had great difficulty choosing when the decision was being made to return to work post mini VTs!!

[Crashlanding]

Transportjock

See post 2423 cpt
2425 fo

I wouldn't say it kept up with rental increase

[ABBOT]

Exchange rate between sterling and Dirham is running at an achievable 6.4 to 1, about where it was before the financial crisis hit. Indications is UK base rate rises coming sooner rather than later also likely to edge up sterling value.

Federal reserve indication that no USA base rate rise likely in near future, that will hold down Dirham.

[High Energy]

3 weekly Zagreb service to start towards the end of the year.
Link (http://www.balkans.com/open-news.php?uniquenumber=194558)

[Voodoo 3]

That's almost as far as Venice!!!, and EK get to layover there.

Anyone going to take a bet that we won't!:(

[High Energy]

VCE is 167 mi further than ZAG. (great circle distance) I bet it's right on the duty time limitations.

I believe QR has ZAG as part of a triangle flight with BUD, right? Does the airline that can't be mentioned go to ZAG?

[Voodoo 3]

I bet it's right on the duty time limitations.

I'm sure BEG is and ZAG is further than that.

But even if it isn't there'll be some manipulation to make sure that it is, funny that!:=

[Old King Coal]

Can someone please remind me of the IATA Delay Code for 'Flight time longer than Block time' ? ;)

[captain.weird]

Inside rumour that flyDubai will get a 787?

[Iver]

Cpt Weird,


That would be a JUICY rumour for Farnborough if it happens.... No doubt they could fill the 787 on certain routes and extend the LCC further into Africa and SE Asia.

[dubaigong]

Cpt weird,

There has been rumours about all type of aircraft since 2009 ( B777 , A330 , A340 and B787 ) we are mid 2014 and all I see is a growing fleet of B737-800 and still around 80 more to come...
So probably Flydubai will pick another type for the long term future BUT the real question is when ?
So my guess is that you will not see anything else than B737 flying under Flydubai colours for at least 5 years.
So many more pilots will be gone by that time and will never see it unfortunately.

[jetstreem]

The 787's is a good one though isn't it?! It's (or should I say they've) been gathering weight recently, and there might just be some substance behind it. You never know.

As ever with this airline, I think the motto is 'Anything's possible, but nothing's certain until it's happened.' And also 'You can be sure that the flt crew will be the last to hear about it!'

[High Energy]

Have a look at Donetsk airport as it stands today. Or should I say what 's left of it. Wow...

Link (http://novosti.dn.ua/details/228578/)

[ABBOT]

100 CI (100% crass incompetence)

[ABBOT]

Former post a delayed response to OKC's enquiry

[pole shift]

It's nice to have rumors around. Especially when it's for better aircraft, more money, better staff travel (it's non-existent at the moment), provident fund, etc etc...
It gives people the (false) hope they need to stay :E

[Old King Coal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZF-skCY-M

[plasticmerc]

HR really have done a great job finding all these optimists to fill the ranks.
It's the only thing they have ever done right.

OH earlier someone said that the company is safe because it has the name Dubai on the side of the aircraft, it is a common saying from HR and management people.

I guess as safe as the worlds tallest building the Burj Dubai was.

The chances of flydubai buying the 787 any time soon or in the future in my opinion NONE! get over it folks it will be 737 800's and sometime in the future 737 - 8 MAX. That is all

there's your two type fleet.

Continue living the dream, back in my box Halas.

[Coupled_To_Me]

Hi pole shift

What's the situation with staff travel? I was under the impression it is possible to purchase space available tickets with Emirates, including Business Class.

[pole shift]

That is true but the procedure to do it is quite lengthy, and of course you will have very low priority to travel, and after all emirates, DNATA, etc staff.
Traveling with your own company is really a bad joke. You can purchase firm 50% tickets and only if those tickets are available for your flight.
I would think that this is the only company in the world, where you as a pilot of this company cannot get a 10% space available ticket to travel, rather you may have to buy a full fare ticket, even if there are 20+ seats on the aircraft. :ugh:

[FlyingTinCans]

The procedures to book EK standbys are a long winded but no more so than when I worked for other airlines and wanted EK standby. You can't just decide to jump on a flight somewhere you need 2-3 days to process it all, once your listed its easy to change listings for the same route.

FZ pilots are allowed to book premium standby tickets (J class travel), if you book this ticket you become a higher priority than the VAST amount of emirates employees, DNATA etc. who are not allowed to list in J class.

I agree with pole shift that staff travel on FZ is a joke but the access to unlimited EK standbys keeps most of us happy....ish