Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged

[S.F.L.Y]

We are in the UAE for as long as we are needed then we are out.
As such, we need to maintain property in our home countries AND have somewhere to live here.

Do you think that all expats working in UAE are maintaining a property in their home country? This is not your employer's problem anyway. I think that most people who recently joined flydubai did it because they wouldn't be able to maintain a single property otherwise... suddenly expecting money to maintain two doesnt' sounds right to me.

[onvacation]

The schedules are terrible and scheduling software is just an excuse. We have 6 airplanes and a limited number of routes. There are enough pilots here to have absolutely wonderful schedules since we are only working part time! We are only getting 7 or 8 days off a month. The only reason I'm posting this is because I want people to know I don't think it will get any better.

Finally, If you decide to come here to Flydubai, you will enjoy the other flight crew. They are from all over the world and for the most part, fun to work with.

[DDRJ440]

hey guys how's the current hiring going on? I've been looking around and flydubai looks like a good place, but I'd like to know what are competitive minimums and how many are they looking to hire? I'm aiming at the FO deal. They published 500 hrs. min. on a 737 "glass". Would 1000 hrs. in the 737-300/500 no NG be enough? what are the actual average mins. Any recent info?

thanx

[RandyBMC]

I know it will have to get better than it is now simply because we will be getting more routes.While we only have 7-8 days scheduled off, I know I am getting quite a few more than that since we aren't being used on standby days.

That isn't necessarily good, because the pay isn't up, but we are not flying the other 22 days of the month. We are also home every night (or day).

I also would like to know why you think the software is an excuse? Just negative? Wait and see, and I will be the first to admit a problem when one becomes apparent. As long as I am kept in the loop and things are being done to correct issues, I will give the powers that be a chance.

I totally agree that the flight crews are the best part of working here. Good times!

DDRJ440,

I would guess the average FO has 5000-6000 hours total time, most of that in jets. Half or so in the 737 of one variant or another. 1000 in the 300/500 should be enough if you have quality experience besides that, decent total time and a type rating in the 737.

I want this to be clear to all considering flydubai: this place is not perfect. It is far from it. There are issues with the rosters, we do not have all of our destinations, and there are certainly the standard folks you run into at all companies building their own empires. If you are flexible however, I think it is a great place. It is one of the best airlines I have worked at from a people perspective. We have folks that really care about the direction of the airline, and from the management I have seen genuine effort to make things right (which is why I am inclined to give the schedules a chance to sort out as we get the routes and aircraft to support good rosters). We can all complain about the company we work for - even the best in the world! All in all, there are fewer gripes here than at any other airline I have seen, especially in the Middle East.

If anyone has any questions at all, I will do my best to answer them as honestly and unbiased as possible.

Hope that helps!
RandyBMC

[jupilair]

Thank you very much Randy I have been following your posts. I am pretty sure that FD is a great place to work at, sure some improvements have to be made but if everybody heads in the same direction the result should be good..... Concerning the roster, do you think that the Ryanair model (5 ON/ 4 OFF) will come in application in FD? I guess with more A/Cs and Pilots it would be the easiest and most economic.
I want also to ask you some infos about the recruitment for the moment as it seems to be such a mess.
In my case I received a phone call in january to check my details, my contact told me to expect an e-mail for an interview in March, since then nothing ... three weeks ago I answerd an Add of Recruit Appoint, it appears to be for Fly Dubai, and the e-mail I received from them was stating that they where the choosen Agency for FD 2010 recruitment, and that even if I have apply via the FD website I have to reapply via Recruit Appoint???
To be honest I begin to find this attitude unprofessional. For the moment I have a really well paid job in Europe ,but 2 months ago I would have joined FD without any hesitation. Now I am a bit perplex and I have the impression that if I received one day any news from FD I will just put the phone down and go for my captain upgrade in my actual company. Sad as the idea of a professionnal adventure in the sandpit was pleasing my family.

[trent1974]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..................

[lalo737]

No News, Good News,

[BurDubaiBob]

Do not be fooled that lack of news represents a happy ship. flydubai is nothing more than Emirates Airlines Lite. Management at this airline have probably set a record in their speed of destruction of crew morale and for failing to deliver what was sold at the interview. Expect a pilot exodus when the bond periods expire, and even some before that!

[SkyDive6]

would you kindly elaborate more?

[gottofly]

website says.......if you work on a non-rostered day, you will receive an additional AED 350 per day.is this honored?

[Canyon Runner]

Hey all!
Lot of interesting posts and ideas being shared here. I have personally applied for a FO position at FD about a couple of weeks ago. No news yet. Was wondering if any you experienced folk out there know what the current hiring scene is.

I think I may meet the mins to interview but they probably have a huge enough pool already. I have abt 3000 hrs total of which 1500 plus on the -7/8/900s. Any inside info or tips would be nice~!~

Cheers

[SassyPilotsWife]

Hey FD guys,

Just wondering if it is mandatory for you to live in Dubai or can you live in Al Ain ? I know some very very nice villas that are cheaper than alot in Dubai. Schools are ALOT cheaper and the place is filling up with expats! Great place to have your families.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I agree re location, but very long drive.

Try Ras al Khaimah, also good value, and 30 mins or so from the SJH airport.

glf

[ShinjukuHustler]

350AED for working your day off? Wow, where do I sign up. I cant think of anywhere else in the world who would pay me 50quid to give up my day off :}

[lalo737]

Mr. Randy bmc where are you??? Any news from you

[gottofly]

can anyone tell me if flying hours at FD have gone up to 60+ a month now?
what is the procedure once u land in DXB after u get a job?ground school,sims,regulation exam??????how long before one gets released on line and what salary?
does FD give accomodation during training?
I am already on the NG.
thanks in advance.

[FZckntkawrap]

Hours are variable month to month depending on how much training the company is doing at the moment. Also, your amount of flying is not affected if you have leave or fly a full month. Some how the rosters all come out with the same block hours, meaning the guys with leave fly the longer sectors and the guys with no leave have 8 days off and fly all the short flights during the month. :ugh:

Procedure after you land? Indoc, GCAA Air Law test, medical, get the visa and other paper work taken care of on your own. Company provides hotel during first month by keeping your first month housing allowance (all of it), then you are on your own to find housing. Some of the pilots have setup a briefing day to come in and explain everything the company does not help with (care about helping with) to get you settled easier.

Salary as published on company website. How long to the line depends on GCAA paperwork and if you have problems in training (CAE delays, instructors available, etc....). Average, about 4-6 weeks to get everything in order.

If you are already on the NG, stay where you are at now. This is not the place to lateral unless your operator is going under. :=

[NGFellow]

Contact email for HR/Recruitment at FD?

[skyflyer737]

Hi FZckntkawrap

Thanks for the informative post. Just wondering why you're advising against coming across from another NG operator to FD? I am an FO on the NG in Europe but have a FD interview in the coming weeks, so any info (good or bad) appreciated.

Thanks a lot.

[gottofly]

Hi FZckntkawrap,

i have PM'd you.pls reply.Thanks

[gottofly]

how many captains does FD currently have and when is the next aircraft expected"?

[giggedy]

Well guys,

I turned it down and worried if I did the right thing, but now...

Im asking, is it still really the best 737 job out there ?

Latest destination Kabul ?? Really? What next ?

Buddies tell me of 4 sector nights starting at midnight, more max duty night flights, poor rostering practices, random drug testing/Alc on report.

Is there any concern amongst you guys or is this all blown out of proportion ?

[NGFellow]

Is the 24,000 USD 3 year bond a decreasing one? I.E. for each month/year served the amount is reduced?

[Voodoo 3]

Giggedy,

If it's not the best 737 job in the world as Carlsberg might say, it is a job nevertheless. Yes there are some issues at the moment, rostering certainly being one of them (earlies to lates anyone?) and the Kabul destination has definately raised lots of questions and concerns.

Yes no-one likes to go to work at midnight and fly all night and sleep all day but it is paid really quite well (tax free) and does enable you to have a life on your time off.

Like most things in life, if you don't want it then fine as someone else will be there to take your place. I chose to come here and while there are things that I hope change, by and large things are a lot better than not and I am happy to be here.

NG Fellow, yes the bond decreases on a pro-rata basis. That is the longer you stay then the less you will pay the company if you leave before your three years. (Decreases month by month)

V3

[Iver]

Do not take these questions as negative. With all due respect, if EK is currently hiring pilots with 737NG experience (they are also evidently considering pilots with CRJ experience only), why go to FD if you could get hired by EK? Are sleeping at home every night and the lack of serious jet lag the big benefits of FD relative to EK? How different are the starting salaries/packages between EK and FD?

Has anyone on these boards considered both EK and FD and chosen FD? If so, how did you compare the two?

[NGFellow]

Thanks for the info regarding the bond. I think that there should not be a bond for someone who is typed and qualified on the airplane. However it appears that FD is requiring one for all applicants.

Regarding housing, what would a 4 bedroom/4bath apartment run these days?
School allowance--is it per child, upto 3 or the total?
Travel: ID 90's on other airlines?

[DHC6to8]

Was going to take the deal at FD until I found out that they wanted to staple my arse to a chair... I mean, why bond typed guys? If you make a sweet deal sweet enough, you won't have to staple any arses down!!
I walked...
6to8

[FZckntkawrap]

All info regarding housing/cars can be found at www.dubizzle.com (http://www.dubizzle.com)

School allowance is per child, up to 3 kids. All schooling must take place in UAE, meaning they won't pay for private school in the home country......even University.

Travel on EK is only ID90 benefit.

[Voodoo 3]

You're absolutely right there NG Fellow. Lots of us came to FD with masses amounts of NG experience, some even IRE/TRE too. We only needed a few sim sessions, barely touched groundschool and very limited line traing and they still slapped a 3 year $24k bond on us. A lot of us grumbled at it but accepted as we wanted the job but as DHC6 said, it wasn't for him and he walked.

Iver, as for why people might be going to FD and not EK, maybe they have been put off by all the EK moaning threads on this forum. It must have made some people think twice?!

V3

[giggedy]

I gather the rumour that business ID 90's will no longer be available to FD staff with EK has now been officially confirmed.
(except managers of course)

Why? If a seat is empty whats the problem with a standby pax occupying it? (extra fuel burn :E)

Nah, someone at EK got the sh*ts cos these new guys were onto a good thing :)


You have to ask why FD T's and C's are going downhill so early on ?


'EK lite' has a certain ring to it, eh?

[Greenkiwi]

I am one of the first self funded student pilot doing the MPL programme in Sharjah which MAY lead to a job in Air Arabia. At the end of training I should end up with circa 500 hours on the A320. I would be happy to work with Air Arabia but just want to see what all my options might be. I live in DXB. Does anyone have a phone number or e mail of someone in Fly Dubai flight deck recruitment who I can contact to discuss future career prospects at Fly Dubai, as this might affect the type rating I opt for as I am presently heading to A320 type rating? Hope to be flying by 2011. Just finished 850 hours of ground school. Thanks.

[NGFellow]

You need Boeing time for FlyDubai. I suggest you look at Airbus operators with an Airbus type rating. Also, unless you are a local "Shabab" you need more hours.

[onvacation]

Unless your a Masochist, I wouldn't come here. Things have progressively gotten worse! 7 to 8 days off a month with 45-50 hours of flying is rediculous! Early morning trips at the beginning of the week followed by all nighters at the end of the week...I've never been this tired flying only 45 hours! Lot's of standby days and now they only give us a one hour call out (have fun living in Sharja). They expect everyone to be contactable everyday. No more business class on emirates...no big deal though because you can't string enough days off together to go anywhere! The B scale makes it all worth it though...can't wait to fly to Kabul! It's too bad all the negative changes, because they have a lot of good people here!

[ManaAdaSystem]

Oh my, and you guys have not even started the India flights yet? They will be back to back night flights for sure!
80 hrs+ (yes, you have been complaining of not enough hours) of that should give the word fatigue a new meaning.:eek:

Bond for rated pilots? Now we know why.

[BurDubaiBob]

I could write a long list on the reductions in Terms & Conditions and undelivered items at flydubai, but right now the only real item of concern is Kabul.

We are now expected to fly into a war zone, whilst our management bleat on about how much they care about us, though if you examine the list of reductions in T&C's and broken promises delivered to us thus far, it doesn't exactly show a lot of care or compassion!

The Flight Operations and the Safety Department (which is seriously lacking in both credibility and stature) must be only too well aware that operations into / out of Kabul are fraught with danger ( surface to air missile anybody? (http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/389268-safi-airways-kabul-2.html#post5661114) and see a Stinger in action (http://www.redstone.army.mil/history/asf/stinger_long.asf) ) but they haven't got the balls or integrity to stand-up and say "No!" to it.

And be in no doubt that most reputable life insurance, health insurance, or mortgage policies will not pay out should you get injured or killed during operations in to or out of Afghanistan... and the flydubai answer to this will be to recompense you, or your dependents, with two years worth of your basic salary only. Not exactly equitable is it?! :mad:

Pic of an Afghan freedom fighter taking aim..... http://www.pauliddon.net/img/rebel%20stinger.jpg

[Ali Ronn]

It's not back to back night flights I mind, it's continually swapping from earlies to lates with 12 hour standbys inbetween...

Not to worry about Kabul though, we are assured the rocket attacks on the airport are 'random'!:ooh:

[NGFellow]

Random rocket attacks are like statistics. If only .1% of aircraft are targeted, and you are part of that .1% it matters not if you are part of the 99.9% of the aircraft not being targeted

[gottofly]

Is FD expecting an aircraft every mnth after october this yr and if so,can one expect to get more flying?Also,can anyone confirm if economy ID90 tickets are still given and if so,how many?thanx4info:)

[Gmann2005]

Hi guys,

Can anyone confirm if FlyDubai are still interviewing First Officers or has it all gone quiet for a few months?

Thanks

[FZckntkawrap]

Still interviewing. Rumor is that they will slow hiring in the summer, July and August...... Hiring should pickup again for the fall as there are lots of airplanes arriving starting again in October. If you do get a job here, don't expect to be able to go home or get out of Dubai very often. Schedules are garbage, no one knows what their leave is past June, and there is no support from the chief pilots office to make any of it better. Don't even think about giving the front office any ideas on how to improve the situation......that will only lead to a "tea & biscuits" meeting with the chief pilot. However, since this is a low cost operation you must bring your own biscuits as only the tea, coffee, or water will be provided :}

[subbudhar777]

Hey! Could u throw some light on the amount of hours captains are flying as of now....looks like almost all the sectors are 03:30hrs or more on an avrage...:rolleyes:

[stealthone]

Hi guys. Can somebody shed some light on command upgrades? What are the minimums and how long does one need to be with the company before moving from right to left?
Thanks and safe flying.

[sirius3]

Hi
Can anyone fill me with the interview details including the sim check. I know its somewhere in the 29 pages...... Thanks in advance

[Voodoo 3]

Sirius, Check out post 95 for starters. That was the profile way back when EK instructors were doing the initial sim detail. As for now when FD are doing it, I'm afraid I don't know if it's broadly the same or not.

Hope that helps anyway

V3

[sirius3]

Vodoo3 Thanks again..... Algebra...:ugh:.. are u there. If so whats the housing deal these days...

[SKYWRITER1]

Why dont you look on their website? Its all there regards pay. Try the search function too, the questions your asking are not exactly rocket science :ugh:

[trent1974]

Heard a rumour that flydubai is hiring again.

Anyone???

[kotakota]

did they ever stop ? Place is humming , new aircraft , new courses , and Emirates also at full throttle............Recession , what recession ?

[Fubaliera]

will they ever hire non type rated at fly dubai

[fly2AK]

Give it time I am sure they will need to hire non-typed guys again. Hiring seems to be picking up every where else and FD may have trouble finding all the type rated guys they would like to hire.

[Spendid Cruiser]

Many problems with the online application form. I emailed Valuemanage a few times and have received no response. Does anybody have a contact other than the email address on the application page?

[sirius3]

Try [email protected]. However they require u to apply online so that it is e- recorded with a reference number. Keep trying on line sometimes their website is under maintenance. All the best.

[Spendid Cruiser]

Thanks sirius3, much appreciated :ok:

[nowbali]

Hey Dude, I am a B737 driver. Living in Ajman
Where does the Fly Dubai pilots hang out.
What are the names of the pubs
My email is [email protected]................
Thank you Sir
Best regards
Roy

[Gulfstreamaviator]

The Company has made great strides and attracted much business.

However the more complex the calculations to arrive at the final fare will back fire on the airline.
People will give up trying to work it all out: should I pre pay for 12kgs, and should I pre pay for the sandwich,
What happens when they dont have your ordered and prepaid for sandwich, a full refund, I hope.
The seat you have pre paid for, is occupied by elephant man, and he does not wish to move.

Do the company provide catering and water for the crew, or do you have to supply your own.?


Just think what fun a hacker could have if able to gain access to the web site.

glf

[NGFellow]

I heard a rumour that FlYDubai might consider dropping the training bond for current/qualified Captain's as they were having trouble getting guys to come on board. Any insight?

[ex-XL]

NGFellow - That very same rumour (no bond) was suggested during the interview of flydubai's first group of pilots 2 years ago. Then several months after many Captains had joined (with no bond in sight) it came as something of a shock when they were presented with a 'Training Bond' - for USD $24,000 decreasing over 3 years - and a Management attitude of "sign it, or else!". This was a 'training bond' for Captains with thousands of hours on type, with many of them also trainers or examiners on type, it being the exact same amount of bond that was required of those FO's who did the full type-rating course. Go figure?!!
So, if your rumour is true, will flydubai also be dropping the bond for their Captains who were already rated & experienced on type? or it will they drop the bond onto new joiners just as they did to those early joiners? A lot of my mates there will be very happy if flydubai do drop it.

Rumours also abound of poor moral, appalling rostering, erosion of various terms & conditions, no rise in pay or allowances in the period since its first pilots joined 17 months ago, the loss of Business class travel privileges with Emirates, two pay scales for pilots doing the same job, flying into a war zone / Kabul, etc.

For FO's looking for a fast upgrade, things are reported to be that bad that only a handful of eligible FO's have applied for the Command upgrade. This is much in part due to the climate of fear engendered by a punitive safety management culture, plus that prior employment at NASA is seemingly a prerequisite (you need to demonstrate your rocket polishing abilities for the Chief Pilot ).

Information being fed to me suggests that recruitment at flydubai looks to be very buoyant, if only because most of its pilots can't wait to get out!

[jackbauer]

Important note, ex-XL does NOT work for F.D.

[VONKLUFFEN]

What is XL?

[NGFellow]

XL is the guy who posted about Fly Dubai.

[jimmyg]

Does that mean what has been posted is not true?

[Flat Cap]

It means that XL is reporting what a friend at Fly Dubai has told him, not his direct experience.

So like most every other post here at pprune, it contains elements of fact, elements of speculation, and elements of what ever slant the orginal source chose to give it.

Some will spin a dark picture, other others a bright one. The truth lies all across the spectrum between the two.

Cheers
F-C

PS. XL was a uk charter airline that fell victim to the economic collapse in 2008.

[BurDubaiBob]

I am a pilot in flydubai and imho ex-XLs report is right on!

For a long time I have been advising friends not to come here and will continue to do so. Many of my colleagues are similarly advising their friends. This place is not as advertised. It is populated by one of the worst management & administrative cultures that it has ever been my displeasure to work with, one which is either blind, or ignorant, or arrogant to the damage they have caused and continue to cause to crew morale & T&C's. Our senior cabin crew are resigning in droves and the vast majority of pilots are p!ssed off to the back teeth with how things work around here. Southwest Airlines of the Middle East it is NOT!

[Fata Morgana 909]

Anyone who knows how the Flydubai leave policy is? Can you for example take three times 14 days a year, or do you have to take 30 days in a row like in Ryan?

Also it is paid, anything else you need to know regarding leave?


Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Be well

[NGFellow]

What are the neighborhoods (family) that would be suitable for a FlyDubai pilot? It would have to be relatively close to the airport (30 mins) since one probably would be working 5ON/2OFF or 6 ON/1OFF. Also fairly close to major international schools and somewhat within the Captain allowance of AED 160,000 (Villa or Apr 3 bedrooms or bigger).

[mikehagen]

What is the policy at FD regarding hiring guys on leave from current employers?

[NGFellow]

I would guess that they would not care as you are required to sign a 3 year/24K bond. If you leave before that then you owe them the amount which is prorated. Based on the write-ups it does not seem to be a career airline, and more of a contract position. After three years of abuse, people just go elsewhere.

[NGFellow]

My preliminary research is indicating that the allowances offered simply defer the costs but don't actually cover them in entirety. For example the school allowance is AED 30,000. Most schools will run between AED 40,000-60,000. Housing is AED 160,000. A nice 3-4 bedroom will run between 180,000-240,000. You also have to buy health insurance for your family as they are not covered. So while you might be making more money at FD on paper, your out of pocket expenses will be significant.
Add to that the fact that you are bonded for 3 years/24K. Stuck even if you hate it.

For those of you currently there, am I pretty close on my estimation or off base?

[skysod]

Ok, I can't resist any longer......and just to show it's not all bad........I'm an F/O here at Flydubai, just into my second year........I love it here, wife loves it too and I'm far better off financially (even after paying all the bills) than I was as a Captain in my previous job!:):):)

[dcsagcs]

Guys think less about money! As a pilot you can still have fun flying your bird, but it`s not a place to take your family...
:ugh:

[Flat Cap]

Your a bit over on housing costs, NG-F, it does depends where you live. But the usual pilot ghetto's are Arabian Ranches, 3bed+Study+maids+familyplayroom with a lake view 3000sq ft is about Dh 150,000. Similar in Emirates Living-Meadows/Springs. Go to Victory Heights you could easily get 4/5 bed almost 5000 sq ft. for the same sort of price. Prices still falling as well, so you should be able to remain in pocket on housing.

Lots of useful info on housing and living in dubai here:
Dubai Expat Forum for Expats Living in Dubai - Expat Forum For Expats, For Moving Overseas And For Jobs Abroad (http://www.expatforum.com/expats/dubai-expat-forum-expats-living-dubai/)

Dubai does have a chronic under supply of school places, so prices are high, and waiting lists long for the most popular schools. It's not unusual for people to have to supplement school fee's, so you will probably be out of pocket there.

The bond is 24k amortising over 3 yrs, you will do a 738 conversion course whatever so there is no weaseling out of it. There are however more expensive bonds in the world over longer periods too.

Keep in mind flydubai is not I repeat not a western airline, if you come you need your eyes wide open, and your wits about you, and beyond taking the money expect nothing. Guys like BurDubaiBob don't get that pissed off for good no reason, it is a long long way from perfect, that said and at risk of getting flamed I will stick my neck out and say there are quite a few worse airlines to work for in the Middle and Far East.

Up side: the money is not bad for a 737 gig, pay is regular. 42 days a year leave. Your in Dubai probably the city of choice in this neck of the woods. The aircrews are all pretty good, with the odd loose cannon thrown in to keep you on your toes. Brand new top spec aircraft.

Down Side: Dodgy destinations, Kabul and Erbil in Iraq probably most notable. Lots of flying to airfields in the moutains with an NDB at 1 end and CbTs on the other. US Airforce management techniques can be....interesting, so be good and don't cock up; you will be asked to consider you employment options if you do. Leave not notified until 2 months before so planning is a pain, currently on a straight seniority basis. Pay and terms and condition predicated on the pilot market, economic down turn resulted in a 10% paycut. Not yet reversed and nothing on the horizon. The schedule/roster can be a real horror, deep night reports 02:00 or so for a 4 sector night duty finishing at 10am next morning, within 10mins of min. rest before you got to darkest Africa on the evening of the same day. It's legal but not pretty.

Tried to be reasonably even handed, I'm sure other may well chip in.

Personally for me, its good so far and have no complaints at the moment I'm in the "happy camp". Pilots do however operate in a fluid environment always subject to change.

Cheers
F-C

[NGFellow]

So if one had an offer from FlyDubai Vs Oman Air, which would be better? Also keeping in mind that at FD all you will ever fly is the NG. At WY you MIGHT get to the A330.

[fly2AK]

Skysod- you seem to be a rarity here, as I too am on my second year I see many that are not happy with how things have turned out. I don't think I neccessarily net more here than I did in my home country as a captain. Now with that said, I am hopeful FD will come around and improve morale and live up to some of the promises they sold most of us on prior to employment here. I think most of us are giving the company 2 -3 years and if things don't improve many will leave between that time frame. I meet very few pilots that say they love it here in Dubai and with FD, but more power to you. I see the industry starting to improve next year and as that happens we will see who is truly happy here and who is not. Everyone has to make their own decision whether FD is the place for them or not, but you should have the honest facts before formulating that decision. All of my friends that ask about FD, I tell them the truth and after they know the facts, none of them want to come here. I wouldn't quit your job and leave your home country to come here, but that is just my opinion. I might add as a pilot at FD, ex-xl's is getting some pretty accurate information so I wouldn't disregard his post.

[NGFellow]

Any FD folks--Wanted to know what areas are preferable to live--Arabian Ranches etc. Since you have to drive to work practically every day, how long is the commute.
What would be the best areas that are within 30 mins of the airport? Also anyone with kids in primary school what schools are they going to. How long did you have to wait. I hear JESS etc are great schools but expensive with a 3 year waiting list I know that they are tons of posts on schools etc, but I am just trying to get info on locations and schools being used currently.

[doublesector]

Been reading this for a while and decided its time to have a say…

I have been at FD for over a year and I’m sad to say I agree with much of what’s been posted above by Ex xl and a2k.

Sure there are worse, but during the past year I have witnessed the changes (as described above), and whilst there is a happy camp of mainly newcomers, there is underlying concern amongst pilots that things will not improve quickly, if at all. The usual suspects such as rostering, leave, decreasing T&C’s, Management and HR, are all playing their part in slowly making FD a less desirable place to work. The current issue for many is fatigue due to unintelligent rostering that combines early, day, and deep night flights all in the space of 5 days! None of this is helping morale.

FD may have a recruiting problem on its hands by the end of the year.

For first officers especially, the big question they have to ask is why come to FD? Emirates are looking for 700 pilots, have virtually the same recruitment process and offer a vastly better package. (I’m sure someone will oblige by posting the T&C’s for EK and FD on here for comparison.) We’ve all read the moans on pprune re EK, they appear much the same for any company in the ME. If the decision has been made to come to the ME as an F/O the choice would be clear. Do you sit in the RHS of a 777 for more money, or a RHS 737 for less?

Time to command at FD is not going to be quick either, despite the obvious need. Ask any F/O here that applied. Few met the criteria, I heard only 6 applied.
Command upgrades have been delayed, this can only mean more DEC’s. (Another morale booster!)

As a captain the choice is more complex, but an FD skipper nets about 10000Dhs more than an EK F/O, not inc the hidden benefits at EK (ie. discounts, staff travel, proper medical cover, etc) The jury is out on that option at the moment, but I know it’s being considered by some.

With 4 more aircraft scheduled to arrive this year, and 12 next year. The company is expanding alright, but unless some issues are addressed, 18 months down the line may see a big turnover of guys as the bonds expire. 3 capts and 2 f/o’s have already quit, even the Chief financial officer is on his way next month.

FD has great potential, brand new aircraft, plenty of routes and some great people. But I think they will need to up the ante with T&C’s and improve morale, to attract and retain both pilots and cabin crew in the future.

[stealthone]

Doublesector,
A friend of mine told me that FOs must have 1000 company and 5000 total hours in order to apply for an upgrade. It would take almost 16 months to accumulate 1000 hours. A lot of FO joined the company with around 3000 to 3500 total hours so the frustration is understandable.
I heard the word going around that FD is pushing DGCA to allow upgrades after 500 company hours and 4000 total.

[fly2AK]

There are a lot of rumors about upgrade and very little actual communication about it. If you require information here you have to dig for it most of the times and that seems to change daily. Most of the initial FO's that I know had well over 4,000 hours and some up to 11,000 hours. The ball buster will be if you have to have 1,000 with FD in order to meet the mins for upgrade. With and average of 55 hrs a month and 6 weeks vacation that is about 578 hours a year and that will take about 20 months before a first officer meets the mins for upgrade. I know some of you are thinking "well it would take longer at other places to upgrade" well the simple fact is this isn't other places and most chose to come here based off of assurances of good rosters, good pay and quick upgrade meaning better pay. Well, none of that is happening and while camp happy is small here and tends to be on the new arrivals most are not happy, but are still holding out hope for improvements but not holding their breath for it to happen. A lot of guys here are looking towards the future to find their way out. Those who have been here a year or longer have not seen improvements, rather a decline in the potential of a great place to work. There are many growing opportunities out there for pilots right now that would be far superior than coming to false hope. Many of us here continue to get emails, calls, and offers for positions elsewhere and I am sure within the next year many guys will seriously question why they are still here. FD will have difficulties in the near future finding guys to come here but as long as they are getting pilot's nothing will change. As one airline CEO has said, " I must be paying these guys too much, classes are still full" they were the lowest paid pilots in the industry. We are our worst enemy. If you choose to come here that is fine but it must be based on fact not fiction and coming here you have to except all the problems that go along with your decision. Keep your options open and talk to the guys that are working at you potential employer before you make a decision. Best of luck

[standardboeing]

If your thinking of coming here this is why EK is widely considered a better job.

More money – Flydubai has 2 pay scales. If you join now on the ‘B scale’ you’ll never get close to an EK FO, don’t expect to save any money. The rental market has dropped significantly but you’ll still have to spend all your money on the things mentioned below.

Better medical insurance. – If you or your family are sick then the dismal medical insurance will have to be used. This means paying out cash, filling out forms and hoping that you might receive some of the cash back (it also takes 4 weeks)

No Provident fund.

Schooling. EK has a debenture with some of the better schools in Dubai so you stand a better chance of getting your kids a place.

We’re all paying a $24000 bond for an airplane we could already fly!

Way better staff travel – Flydubai’s answer is a 3 day 3 stage trek around Dubai to end up with the worst grade EK standby ticket available.

Leave –Leave is done on seniority and rarely confirmed weeks ahead.

Rosters – A veritable nightmare suffice to say they are a mess and come out in the last few days of the month.

The chance to upgrade – No ones done it here and it’s all gone very quiet!

As previously mentioned, morale here at FD is at an all time low and the management continue to turn a blind eye. Given the choice most of the guys here would opt for EK, we all choose different companies for different reasons but don’t believe what your told in the interview. Flydubai has relied on the goodwill of a very experienced group of pilots to get it up and running successfully. Sadly whilst the management are keen to congratulate themselves and shout ‘good job’ they are soon to find a mass exodus of dejected unmotivated people who can only be replaced by pay to fly novices.

Flydubai is a stepping stone company or somewhere to wait and keep your hours going if you’ve lost your job. It is certainly NOT a career airline.

[olster]

Standard Boeing you forgot the ludicrous,unfair and disproportionate 'fines' for minor and unintentional infractions. These consist of being docked a days pay for such 'crimes' as not being quick enough to answer the phone.Subsequently ,the pay will disappear with no contact from management or rationale or hope of redress.That wasn't mentioned in the interview now was it? I have never known anything similar in any other company.The 'dickdance' around Dubai to purchase an N2 lowest priority ticket is also getting mega-tedious.There will be payback however, in the form of mass exodus -it's called karma.

[standardboeing]

I agree entirely olster.

Unfortunately the misguided fools in management seem to think karma is somewhere to buy a fake handbag and will only react once the pilot stampede starts.

[doublesector]

Olster,
I recently had the pleasure of flying with someone who was ‘fined’ a days pay for being deemed non contactable. The rationale behind such policy is difficult to understand.

For the benefit of potential FD recruits, as per flight ops policy manual, ‘Not contactable’ means not returning the call within five minutes…. yep, five minutes!

Standardboeing
You also forgot to mention the questionable crewing practices emerging and interesting interpretation of the FTL scheme within FD. Anyone with titanium gonads care to file a Rosi?

And don’t forget those weekly updates received from the top. Has anyone the foggiest idea what this weeks final poetic paragraph was all about?

Does anyone know if the end of service benefit can be taken before three years has elapsed ?

[fly2AK]

Guys have been fined for being sick on a day off and the more days your sick on off days the more days will be docked pay from your base pay. Lets not forget the guys who were called on a day off to come into work and were docked a days pay for not being available on a day OFF because they didn't answer their phones. The next year will be a trying year for most of us and I think next year FD will have a hard time staffing even half of their fleet do to the mass exudus that will probably happen. The attitude of this operation is like one I have never seen. Rosters are the worse I have ever seen and seem to be very vindictive :ugh: the benifits are not great, the flying is little and at horrible hours, staff travel sucks, Dubai is very expensive so trying to save money if you have a family is difficult at best, safety department is a toll of intimidation, upgrades - well after they have determined the blood type of your 1st born they may consider letting you plea a case why you are worthy of being selected for upgrade and that movement has gotten very quiet and no one has upgraded yet. I honestly don't know anyone that is happy here and right now seem to be in a holding pattern waiting to get out and very few seem comfortable but I haven't met anyone that is actually happy other than managment. If you come here knowing the problems and concerns of those who are here at FD then you are just punishing yourself. If you have a job in your home country I would stay and not even think that this is an opportunity. The only opportunity you will have coming here is the opportunity of regret.

[doublesector]

These were mistakes, right?

How can you be fined a days pay for being sick or not being available on your day off ?

Don't even mention rosters. There is clearly an agenda in addition to crewing flights. :hmm:

[fly2AK]

I am afraid not a few guys have had this happen to them and it was brought up to managments attention and it has been months and they have yet to see their money returned. I have also been told they won't get their money back. The abuse continues and the morale declines and anger starts to build. I see and work with a lot of angry people that are getting to their breaking point and probably won't last past 2011. As for the end of service benifit (EOSB) Well as I understand it you will get it after your first year of employment and it goes up for every year of service. Meaning when you leave as long as you were here a year you would get 21 days for each full year.

[Voodoo 3]

So management have shown that you can forget about having a day at the Wild Wadi, Ski dubai or even down the beach because if you and your phone are seperated by more than five minutes then you can expect a slap on the wrist and a fine too.

Outrageous attitudes and as has been suggested above, if they seriously expect to be able to expand at the rates that they do, ie, around 10 aircraft per year then they will have to stop these mental acts as it will put off many good quality pilots from applying and we may well be left with whats left. Yes, they may be able to fill the positions but will they be worthy candidates or the only ones that want to put up with this current attitude.

Might pop to a mall sometime and see if I can buy a waterproof case so I can take my phone into the shower with me.

Crewing 'Where were you, we called over five minutes ago to ask you to fly on your day off'

Employee 'I was in the shower'

Crewing 'Well you are on a day off but didn't call back. You will therefore be fined, have a nice day'. Click brrrrrrrrrrr! :ugh:

I jest a little bit but that is how they make it feel.

V3

[subbudhar777]

Hey! Guys I have been following this thread for sometime now. I have a job offer from FD and suppose to joing in October 2010. I must say that the problems with rostering and the managment seem to be very discouraging for a chap like me who is on his way to join FD!!!!:confused:

Is there anything that is positive about FD??????????????????

Can someone flying for FD please throw some light on a typical months roster???
How many hours is DEC pulling in a month???

How many days do you get off in a week????

How long does it take to get the Resident Visa Processed for self and family?????

Thanks in advance. Any information about FD would be greatly appriceated:D

[donwannafly]

:DBravo, signs despiration on FD!

[menikos]

Hello,

What is your experience ?

Thanks :ok:

[doublesector]

subbudar777, ( and other joiners)

Im sure all FD here will agree... here are some facts...

Expect between 50 and 90 hrs, anything between 4 short 1hr sectors, to 2 medium 5hr sectors. It is extremely variable.

Do not expect more than the legal minimum days off, 7 per month, if lucky you might get 8. Also expect to see some single days off.
Do not expect to be able to commute home on days off.


The company expects you to be contactable everyday between 1600 and 1800 for possible roster changes.
If not available you may be marked un contactable whereby you have a days pay docked from you salary.

Rosters are presently published about the 25th of the month, ie about 5 days in advance of next month.
They are presently not e mailed, but printed out for you to collect in person !

AIMS has introduced the ability of requesting 2 days off per month. We are still awaiting September's roster to see if it works !

Rostering here has been truly awful, no set patterns, constant swings from earlies, lates to nights all in the space of a few days.
Recent implementation of AIMS has brought new hope, but the current situation is expected to continue for sometime.


Annual Leave, bid by seniority. Place bids for whole year. Confirmation of the leave can be as little as a month before, making planning difficult.
Leave is taken in blocks of 7 days. no wrap around days. You cannot carry leave over into next year. There have been occassions of guys being forced to take leave when not requested.

Visa, normaly within two weeks of arrival for yourself. For family, its up to you. There is little or no help from the company for this, most however get everything done within a month or so. Keep the receipts, the company will refund family visa costs. (its UAE employment law)

On the positive side, there are many good people here, the aircraft are good, the company is is financialy sound, expanding fast.. and there is always the chance things will improve. There is a rumour of a pay review doing the rounds, if this proves to be true, this may well inject a desperately needed positive vibe amongst the hard working and tired crew.

Your situation is unique to you, much depends on what you want, or expect from the job.

The comparison drawn above with Emirates is accurate one, I would urge you to think carefully about your priorities before coming to FD.
Its true there will always be something to gripe about, but it's suprising how many folk here are weighing up the cost of the bond, vs a better lifestyle elsewhere.

[subbudhar777]

Thanx Doublesector the info u gave is I am sure highly appriceated by all of us guys either joining or planning to join FD.

Just had a last couple of questions...

You mentioned that it takes abt 2weeks to get your resident Visa processed is that the minimum time or if ur lucky you can get it a little earlier than dat???

Can we keep an additional loss of license insurance in addition to the one provided by FD??!!!

Do the guys in FD get a fixed Weekly Off day where they can keep there phones away for or switched off??? LoL

And for the info of the friend who wanted to knw my experience I have 7500TT and 3000 PIC on B-738w.

Happy landings to all of you there in d SKY...

Thanks again Doublesector

[B787J]

... No one said its going to be walk in the park ... i remember my interview and being told its not easy ... hang in there and yes things are not immaculate but they are getting better ... better rostering system in place... rents have dropped by about 50% ... plus its Dubai ... it is a LCC and should not be compared to EK /EY ... all the whiners if you are not happy then you should leave ... work for another airline that will go into administration :8 .... i would say i personally like the environment and enjoy work its a fun place to be in ... n most of the people are genuine and enjoy what they do...

To all those looking to join flydubai i would say .. if you comehere with the right attitude you will enjoy it here ... :ok:

[Flat Cap]

If you pull your finger out and get your immgration medical done quickly as you can it is possible to get the visa in less that 2 weeks, I did.

According to the Flight Ops Policy Manual you have to be contactable 16-18 every day except on Days Off. How true this is or not or what happens in regular practice, I will leave for others comment.

Having additional loss of licence insurance is something between you and you insurer, no prohibitions I have seen or heard of.

Rgds
F-C

[scoteros]

It's a long time since I have been posting on this site but I had to say my word after what has been said about my company...

First of all you have to compare FlyDubai with other low cost airlines not with company flying long haul and first class passengers as Emirates...

I am here since the day one and if I have to admit that we are far from what we have been told when we joined "FlyDubai will be the Southwest of the Middle East" I can not accept all the bad things said about this company.

I am flying for more than 20 years and I must say that FlyDubai is certainly the best low cost airline to work for if I compare with what I have seen in Europe.

Everything is better than what was on offer in Europe , here we receive free food and drinks when we are on duty , we don't have to pay for our uniform and even free dry cleaning is available...
The salary ( depending on your pay scale A or B is between 14000 to 15500 USD per month tax free for captain ) is around twice the one I would get in Europe after tax in a low cost airline.

The roster is not nice at all , I agree but we don't fly 900 Hrs a year but we are only around 600 Hrs , which means more free time as we have also a lot of flights with an average of 3 Hrs per leg.

Also look what is on offer on the FlightGlobal website and maybe your are smarter than me BUT I could not find anything with better condition.

And last but not least , if it was so bad here and so nice everywhere else why are all my well experienced fellow pilots staying here ?????
Yes they are complaining yes they are talking about leaving But they are still here !!!!
So before taking your decision to join or not , read your contract , gather as much facts as you can and then make your own decision.

All I can say is that even if I am also disappointed by our management and I admit that we are far from being the Southwest of the Middle East , I still believe that it's the best job available on a B737 I can find now and I don't regret my decision to come here.

Good luck to all of you

[Fata Morgana 909]

Great stuff re FD some more if anyone has the energy to fill in the …. blanks!

You guys that are working there, do you see a will to improve things from the management regarding the roster and the other issues that seems to be out there?

I guess it could be considered normal not having the operation at its peak so early in the days.

Also what is the company culture like, can you compare it to other low cost carriers like Wizzair or Ryan etc?

Cheerio

[doublesector]

Scoteros in answer to your Question...

'" if it was so bad here and so nice everywhere else why are all my well experienced fellow pilots staying here ?????
Yes they are complaining yes they are talking about leaving But they are still here !!!! ""

Not everyone wants to do the 'ballistic bob' departure.:=

Consider the cost of leaving !

24000 USD Bond. (even those experienced type rated guys)
School fees, debentures etc.
6/12 month Tenancy agreements.
Selling up and moving from Dubai is not going to be straightforward or cheap.

Remember, its not just changing jobs, its uprooting the whole family to another country !

Once here, you need three years to make it worthwhile.
Though, I think we will see more leavers ( 5 so far) within the next 18 months.

On a positive note there are some encouraging rumours circulating that suggest some changes for the good are imminent.

[scoteros]

Maybe double sector , let's wait 3 years and see if your are right...
But I have seen this before in other companies and the people who really wanted to leave were leaving very quickly and the one complaining all the time were still there when I was leaving...

About the cost , first now after around one year for all of us the maximum to pay will be 24000-8000 = 16000 USD remaining. ( don't forget we are earning 15000 USD a month , so it's a month of salary only )

Second , most of us are flying for years and we should have some money saved for these situations...

Third , a lot of my fellows here are single or have been careful enough to leave their family home.

Fourth , you said yourself that 5 pilots left already so...it is possible if you think it is worth leaving...

And fifth , last but not least , one of our captain has been contacted by Emirates for a direct entry captain position and he is still here !!! he is not even interested in going there despite the fact that there will be no relocation needed...

But again I don't want to say I am right and you are wrong , I am just using my previous experience to tell you what will probably happen.

[doublesector]

You may be correct, lets hope so.
Regarding your observations,

Points 1&2 are based on willingness to pay a months salary back to your employer. For me its never been bad enough to want to leave that quicky !

point 3, may be the very reason they are thinking of leaving. It's not much of a life without family and/or the chance to see them often. :(

point 4, It was cheap for the guys that left !! They did a runner, or in one case the company actually paid for everything! I know one fellow that is working his notice, I can only assume he's paying back the bond.

point 5, I have asked EK HR and was told no plans to take DEC's.... at the moment. maybe thats changed. Each to their own.

Might I also add that Im not seeking to leave just yet, Im in the camp thats relatively happy waiting for some of the promises to materialise.

rgds

[mave292]

I dont normally write or reply to posts however at this stage I feel need to get my view across regarding FD. I am with FD a year now and I agree , things need to improve regarding rostering and sorting out the A and B payscale ,rumour going around atm that will happen in the not to distant future (fingers crossed). Once these issues are sorted I feel that this could be a great place to work. I have worked for BOTH the large low cost carriers in Europe and except for having a fixed roster , which by the way isnt much good if your not based at home as you could spend 2 days travelling to and from home(depending on where u are based) things are not much better. Brookfield contract, which is all you will get at Ryanair now is a pay as you fly situation, is that what you want? Yes the money is good before you sort out your tax and pension , and then spend another chunk of it on accommadation give you havent received your base of choice or home base. Easyjet, UK contract money not great either given the poor exchange rate to the Euro and then on a Euro contract the EXTRA money is going again on accommadation. FD offer a good package , you can see your family most days and they give you exactly what your contract states. The contract stated a 3 year bond , not ideal I admit for type rated crews but you knew about it , if you dont like it dont sign the contract. Some people will never be happy no matter what the deal is and they where more than likely unhappy at their previous airline, thats just pilots for you. Just look at the Emirates forums , alot of unhappy pilots there aswell. FD is as good a place to work as any other airline but like any other airline it has its faults but you do get what you sign up for which can go both ways depending on what you want or what your expections are ....

[FZckntkawrap]

I promised myself I would keep quiet and see if things improved over a 6 month period. It does not seem that things are improving, nor is there a desire from management to correct certain issues. Although the airline continues to grow, growth does not always mean improvement.

Rostering: Primary issue is the standby days that limit the amount of flying you can do in a month because they count against your total duty time. They also reduce your days off, which prevent you from swapping flights with other crew members. They give "lip service" to wanting crews to control their own schedules, but cram so much "fluff" into them that it is practically impossible to make any changes. As everyone else has said, leave is not awarded until the month before and it is highly unlikely this situation will change. It is run very shoe string around here, and the blame goes to the commerical/marketing department. The company is not able to publish a flight schedule and stay with it. It is almost as if they are throwing darts with a blindfold on and hoping for the best.......

AIMS is now building the schedules, but nobody really knows how many restrictions or limits have been imposed on the system. The rosters for August seemed a little better, but the September rosters appear to be going back to the oppressive nature of pre-AIMS rostering. Don't expect anymore than 7 days off and if you get more than 2 days off together be glad.

The widespread attitude towards the crews is one of general negativity. There is no desire to assist or be forward with information. However, your complete cooperation is expected at all times, including days off..... And HR policy can change on a case by case basis.

For some, yes this might be an improvement over a previous job. However most of the pilots at this airline are very experienced and came from good companies (yes, some had folded) with a wide variety of backgrounds. Instead of using the experience of the pilot group it seems some in flydubai are afraid of being shownup or perhaps are too set in their ways to try a different approach to resolving issues.....issues that occur at every airline and are easy to correct!

The health insurance is another issue that has not been addressed. It was changed with little notice that a 10% co-pay would be added. Also, according to the yanks/canuks they still do not have coverage when they are home unless it is life emergency. The dental portion does not cover basic cleanings and checkups, which is the only part most of us use!

For the people that are excited about free food...... The food here is terrible. It is usually several weeks old and has been sitting in a freezer. Some of the cabin crew, and even a few FO's I've flown with bring their own food! There have been at least 4 cases of crew food causing sick calls the next day, and that's just 4 that I've heard of these past few months.

Why not just leave? Most, including myself, are not willing to pay to leave a job. Most of us signed the bond in good faith that the company would listen to and correct issues as they arose. The company wanted us to be apart of the expansion and to help build a new company that would be the "Southwest of the Middle East" Unfortunately that has not been the case. The split pay scales have really put a divide in the pilot group. Just an opinion, but I doubt that the split will every fully go away. It is more likely that the B scale will be raised a small amount and the A scale will not see an increase for some time.

One positive thing: The employee lot has been opened up to ALL employees on a first come first served basis.

[Wacked]

Well despite what you all say it sounds a lot like most low fare setups these days but with nice new aircraft and good money. I have applied twice with 2 different emails( I was not current the first time and no way to update application), I have 9000 hours of which 8000 on 737s and havent heard a word. Is there any way to follow up an application, ie email address or phone number?

[olster]

3 years then out - never been in a company with such negativity towards the pilot community.Needs to change very soon otherwise it will fall apart.Talk it up as much as you like but the vast majority I fly with are constructing an escape plan.Having fun? -now that is hilarious.

[desertopsguy]

To FZckntkawrap...I noticed that you mentioned how standby days are being counted as duty time? This is only while you are on airport standby, standby at home is not elligible to be counted as duty time as there is no sign on or sign off; the duty begins when you sign on for 'duty'. If your info is correct then someone in your crewing dept or management does not know the regs. If I spend the month of Sept on standby then my total duty time is zero!

Additionally I dont know why your rosters are so bad as the commercial schedule is all round trips right? A new fancy program like AIMS will not fix your rostering woes if the people pressing the buttons are clueless! Have seen that many times before. Good rostering needs a particular kind of person in order for it to go well, hiring some beating heart from further east is't always the answer.

As it is only 14mth old Flydxb is hardly set in its ways and is most likely still finding its feet. A little digging on where the management came from may yield some answers as to why things aren't working out as promised.

Best of luck.

D.O.G

[FZckntkawrap]

Desertops-

According to our Part A, standby duty is counted against the total 55 hours allowed for a 7 day period of duty. The only exception is if on a 22:00-6:00 standby and not used. In that case, only half of the standby is counted as duty time.

[doublesector]

Desertops, you sound familiar with FTL / aims etc ....

FD september rosters contain some interesting planning. ie.

Is there any reason the AIMS software would sensibly generate, 2 off , 1 duty, 1 week leave, 1 duty, 2 off pattern ? Or, does an example like this require human input?

It maybe early days, However, the example above and a relentless 6 on, 2 off, 7 on, 2 off, was not envisaged as a benefit of the AIMS system.



thoughts ?

[WJAPilot]

Thanks for the various inputs here much read and learned.

Cheers

WJP

[standardboeing]

Check out the master thread on page 2

in terms of conditions and overall employee satisfaction?

NOT GOOD.

[LHR Rain]

Just like Emirates. That's funny the two airlines are owned by the same management. I wonder if Fly Dyubai does not honour contracts as well.

[Alaska737]

You must be management just trying to boost the appearance of working at FD!!!!! No single pilot would put those words!!!

[Alaska737]

Hiring restriction with Emirates now confirmed as increased to 2 years. **This has not been announced to the flight crew by FlyDubai management and has been done extremely underhanded! **It affects the rights of any pilot seeking an alternative option. A sure sign the company is getting desperate and realise their terms are getting worse!

Lower B scale pay (rumoured to increase but now confirmed as remaining as long as pilots continue to apply)

Staff travel with Emirates - only standby and a big hassle to obtain.

Flights into war zone airports such as Kabul. *

Flip-flop scheduling. *Daytime flight followed by a through the night flight that arrives often at 8am

Rest days are classed as days off on your schedule but real days off always absolute minimum (8) always.

You could get a 1am start following a vacation day or a 5am report following a day off.

No chance to commute as max 2 days off and very poor staff travel benefits.

Flydubai staff travel still at 50% of cost.

First officer upgrade guarantee does not exist and the company will seek to extend the time as much as possible as they cannot get enough 1st officers to apply! **The company is attracting 2nd rate captains as it's easier to fly them with the experienced FOs

Loss of license coverage is a 2nd rate coverage. *If you get ill for more than 2 weeks you will only get 2 weeks basic pay without housing, thereafter you get nothing! **There is no insurance for loss of earnings at all. **

Company frequently listens to CVR to obtain their own source of information!!! **

There is no open door policy to discuss any issues. *It is a "trust no-one" atmosphere. **

[stealthone]

Alaska737,
Can you elaborate on the so called hiring ban? What hiring ban?
Man, Flydubai is going to more than double the fleet by June next year and is desperate for pilots.

[standardboeing]

The hiring ban is the latest bad idea from our management for people already in flydubai looking to move to Emirates. (Believe me there are lots).
The ban is apparently 2 years from your start date.

Everything Alaska737 says is true. You would be crazy to join this company.

Morale is at an all time low. Anyone that tells you otherwise is almost certainly either a new joiner or related to our HR department.

Management’s answer to try and boost morale is weekly emails that are entirely unfocussed on safety or anything pertinent but contain strange poetry and abstract useless information about car parking.:ugh:

People saying you can’t compare it with Emirates please wake up and realise they are after similar experience levels for First Officers.

Any experienced FO’s considering a more to Dubai would be making a huge mistake to come here and not go to Emirates. Flydubai’s conditions suck and you’ll be a very long time waiting for an upgrade.

Clearly flydubai are aware of this otherwise why would the ban exist? They know there are lots of pilots looking for an exit strategy and this is their latest poor attempt to keep us here.

[doublesector]

Alaska,

I've not seen anything official on the EK recruitment ban?

How reliable is your source? It's a move I'm considering so its of concern. Surely this policy could only be enforced with the help of EK. Can you provide any more info?

Can anybody add anything to the rumours of the much discussed pay reveiw? The Gem I heard was that the 'b' scale is to go with a possible bonus on the horizon? Too good to be true ?

Regarding the other posts above, it looks negative, but unfortunately its mostly fact, and pretty much sums up the feeling on the ground floor.
(I'm not sure about the CVR point, though nothing here would surprise me).

LHR Rain,

The FD contract is a vague 4 page document. Changes to T&C's have been sneaked in via the back door during the last year, (reduced medical cover being one of the worst), but as these were never fully detailed in the original contract FD could argue they have not breached any deal.:suspect:

A flight ops policy document has recently been released, (Complete with some unexpected T&C's), but again it lacks full detail on for example, loss off licence, extended sickness, etc. It constantly refers employees to the HR manual, or the business manual...which, as probably youve guessed, we do not have access to. :hmm:

Certain Policies appear shrouded in secrecy and sadly HR is the last place you'd even consider asking for assistance.

Potential joiners be very careful !

[Alaska737]

The source is straight from the top. G**th is the one who negotiated the "ban" deal. It was settled just a week ago. Emirates HR are great and will not lie to you about your prospects if you tell them you are at flydubai!!! I will stick money on it that they will soon be asked to not disclose this information to more flydubai pilots after seeing the truth on this BB!!! An arrangement like this in most other countries would have been reason for many law suits.

As for the scheduling.......it's a recipe for a disaster!!

Sorry to break the news to you.

[Alaska737]

There will be no such change. I don't know who started that pay rumour, but it's not accurate. The official version of this rumour is "ONLY IF NEEDED".......the "if needed" is when pilots start leaving in droves or they cannot get more pilots!!! So, don't count your chickens any time soon!!

If you want to hear the truth about this then just go upstairs and ask!!

[Alaska737]

This payment is based on your basic pay......it does not include you average flight pay, housing or transport. Just remember that........it's a massive difference!!

[727Man]

They would get more FO's if you did not need to be type rated.

[doublesector]

Well that really is bad news !:ugh:

I can understand Fd protecting its business etc, but enticing folk here with empty promises, ( u do the math !) locking them down with bonds, and now this latest underhand manuouvre!

Wouldnt it be easier to stop the Pi$$ing about, make the guys happy so they want to stay. It worked at southwest, eh ?

The boys at Southwest must be laughing their asses off.

As for schedules, dont even go there... Its dangerous, period.

It is undoubtedly the largest single safety issue in this company...and the one thats given the most lip service. If we had a dollar for each time we heard '' Its legal'', we wouldnt need to be here. It may be legal, but the regs were never intended to be abused in this way.

Wait until the AIX accident report comes out, the one thing that will no doubt be manipulated out of the report will be the crews previous duties. Spin it whichever way you want, they screwed up because they were overtired. Its simple and its human! FD operate very simliar routes and schedules, we face the same danger if FD dont get a grip on the scheduling.:mad:

[doublesector]

727... they would get more if they just answered the applications and e mails !

[Count von Altibar]

Hiring bans of this nature are commonplace in the ME and have been for a long time. They usually don't tell you about them at the respective airlines but it becomes obvious after a while. I can't understand the surprise on here from some!?

[Alaska737]

Although, I am sure I would quit for sure if anyone started hammering nails into my hands!!!!

When a company refuses to reply to emails or answer questions in type then you have a good idea of what to expect!

One captain had failed his medical and had to pay all the investigation fees himself, so don't expect much out of the so called medical insurance or loss of license cover!!!!

I have friends at SW who love it........they have stepped time rosters which takes away the fatigue issues. AIMS is only as good as what goes into it!!

[fly2AK]

Well despite what you all say it sounds a lot like most low fare setups these days but with nice new aircraft and good money. I have applied twice with 2 different emails( I was not current the first time and no way to update application), I have 9000 hours of which 8000 on 737s and havent heard a word. Is there any way to follow up an application, ie email address or phone number?

This is a quote from "wacked" on page 31 and seems to be the consenses of the European low cost airline pilots. You will also hear references to Southwest as well and FD being the Southwest of the middle east. FD is so far from the Southwest culture it isn't even funny. SW from day 1 has made employees the number one priority above their customers. They can do this because they know if they take care of their employees, the employees will be happy. Happy employees are motivated and caring and in turn will pass on that good hospitality onto their passengers. This creates happy passengers, happy passengers make repeat passengers. Repeat service makes good business and good business makes money.
Southwest has been around for 39 years and have made profits for the last 37 of those years. Pilots are the happiest in the industry right now and from the many friends I know there average 16 - 17 days off a month and fly 80 - 90 hrs a month. They all love their job and are treated and paid very well. The SW pilots are the highest paid 737 pilots in the world. SW operates 544 737's and this happens smoothly because the employees make it happen.
Now let's talk about Virgin America and Allegiant. Although they are not the highest paid they do compare in QOL. VA junior line holders are getting 16+ days off a month same as Allegiant with up to 19 days off a month and still flying 80-90 hrs a month. All these companies have preferential bidding. Some guys have a string of 10 days off a month.
Jet blue another low cost with happy people (minus on flight attendant). The point is it works, keep your people happy and the company will operate efficiently and with less hassles to deal with. I disagree with FD being the best low cost out there. However for the Europeans that might be the case, I have heard the stories of the European low cost carriers and I just ask, why did you put up with that for so long? The poing to take away from the posters on this board is there are unhappy people and there are the happy people. You have to listen to the facts that are presented to you, generally by the unhappy people and decide if this is the job for you. The happy people usually only post opinions and not much fact. Listen to the fact and decide. Unfortunately, if you are thinking of coming and hoping or expecting change, then you are feeding a vicious circle in the effect that as long as people are coming with the current conditions here and the pay nothing will change. It will only change if it has too, so as long as pilots come and pilots stay to fly their airplanes, life at FD will remain the same. Best of luck with your decision on FD and remember FD is not the SW of the desert :=. Their only similarity is they both fly B737's and SW has many more of those and many more people happy enough there to make SW their one and only career airline. Disclaimer "I didn't have time to proof read so excuse the spelling or grammer errors" Thank you for your cooperation!;)

[8ah]

Motivation = 80% of production........

Been counters ... Go figure why ....

[BurDubaiBob]

standardboeing mentioned about the poetry we sometimes recieve from our COO.

Here is an example from the 19th August instalment of our weekly update:
flydubai – the Airline

I am different

I serve sightseers.
I serve entrepreneurs.
I serve nervous job seekers.
I serve grandparents.
I don’t make distinctions.
Here, everyone is First Class,
Because I am everyone’s airline.

I am a new way of thinking,
Fueled by ingenuity and optimism.
I am a timely departure from the old way.
I am the world, made smaller.
I am pure liberation.

I am flydubai

:eek: :ugh: :mad:

[standardboeing]

That's funny Bob, my poem read like this:-

flydubai – the Airline

I am different

I serve everyone.
I serve food and drinks.
I serve rude, obnoxious and ungrateful passengers.
I serve everyone from grandparents to camels.
I don’t have time to make distinctions.
Here, employees are second Class,
Because I am the governments airline.

I am a strange way of thinking,
Fueled by fear, skepticism, red bull and terrible crew food.
I am chronically fatigued, a timely departure from the way forward.
I am the world, but more confused than ever.
I am purely here for the money.

I am flydubai

[BurDubaiBob]

And of course let us not forget the punitive & oppressive attitude that emanates from within the flydubai's Flight Safety Department, a department that is headed-up by an onerous weasel of a man. Someone who engenders ZERO RESPECT FROM ANY PILOT WITHIN THE COMPANY! A man for who, upon inspection of his FAA license, it can be revealed that his only Type Rating is held as a 'CPL' - not ATPL - aboard a military transport aircraft, with no FAA record of him ever having been type-rated as a Commander / ATPL of a Public Transport jet.

For our JAA Licensed readers: the USA FAA do not require a F/O to be Type Rated, whereas Captains must be Type-Rated, at ATPL level.

And if you don't believe me on this, do go ahead and look it up on the FAA's pilot certification website. First login to this site and fill in the details here (https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/default.aspx) and then click on this link (https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/AirmenList.aspx?lname=AIRMAN) or copy paste it into your web address field. With regards to a FAA type rating: C/ = Commercial pilot and L-300 = a stretched ‘civilian’ version of the Lockeed C-141. Note that this information is freely available within the Public Domain - rather than being anything to do with Walter Mitty 'Black Ops'. :E

Now as for this muppets supposed previous 'military credentials', being reported that he was once a Colonel in the US Air Force, a quote by Groucho Marx comes immediately to mind ( "Military Intelligence, is a contradiction is terms" ! ) and he seems a classic example of the 'Peter Principal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle)', of someone being promoted to their innate level of incompetence! In this case, someone qualified only through having attended various 'courses' but who has no real 'hands-on' experience of the safety task he is charged with managing. He certainly doesn't fly-the-line and neither is he Type-Rated on the aircraft type that we fly.

Without doubt, the epitome of a "Yes!" man, and management no doubt love him when he suggests that places like Kabul are actually completely risk free, so much so that he'd even be willing to take his family on holiday there! Go figure? :rolleyes: Obviously someone with little or no integrity. Some might say a cretin (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cretin). The sooner this fcukwit leaves the UAE the better it will be for the company, and especially so for the integrity of the flight-safety department!

[fly2AK]

Just to clarify and I am not defending Mr Safety. However, under the FAA system a F/O is not PIC type rated they are SIC type rated. Previously they were not typed at all and the reason why was they never went through a command course on the airplane so they wouldn't receive a PIC type rating. The american first officers still go through a 6 week course on the aircraft to be flown and are held to the same standards as the captains but they are exempt from doing a flapless landing and performing a rapid decompresion as the flying pilot and they are not given any command leadership training. This is not meant to defend Mr. Safety. It is to clarify the first officer program in the US. The F/O's get a SIC type rating now. Anyways, the saftey culture brings cause for many concerns within the pilot group and unfortunately a lack of trust. Trust is vital to any safety program.

[Alaska737]

Can anyone confirm that if we don't answer the phone on a day off that we lose a days pay????? I haven't been able to substantiate that one.....

If it's not true then do we get paid when they call on a day off to change assignments??? I guess the answer to that is no, but legally doesn't it make that day a duty day????

[ManaAdaSystem]

Legally?

In the UAE? I think you should have stayed at home.

[Alaska737]

Ok! I asked for that one!!!! But, for everyone on here.......I cannot find any legal obligation to suggestion we must avail ourselves outside of duty hours.........

Given that fact we are now banned from emirates for 2 years, we still need to preserve our days off as non-contactable. This is really a ridiculous situation otherwise!!!!!

[mave292]

I dont suppose while they where discussing the recruitment ban with Emirates they might have considered discussing the re-enstatement of our Business Class travel .....:ugh: Think the only thing that had peoples moral up a little was the possible pay rise, thats the end of that so by the sound of it

[gpu connected]

Hello, just came off the emirates thread and it seems that FD has similiar problems. The question is as a european based pilot who is trying to get away from the usual grind. what options are out there?

[olster]

where's the Business Class?

[CaptGlenQuagmire]

All part of the Management propaganda to improve recruitment, as were rumours of a pay increase and improved AIMS rosters :hmm:

[Born_In_The_USA]

Just heard some hot news from a source in the UK that FZ are going to charge all new applicants $230 (150 sterling) for the honor of having an application submitted for processing with them/CTC.
How low and cheap can you get, are FZ really that desperate to follow in the footsteps of Ryanair when this was supposed to be and sold as a Southwest Airline model.
With me having to find my own airfare aswell as application fee and non refunded will they be asking next to pay them for the first 12 months flying!!
It looks like EK should have no problems recruiting their pilot pool and FZ will now deservedly struggle with these tactics.
BITU$A

[doublesector]

BA are looking for DE Capts on 737 at LGW.....Amongst many things, I hear they benefit from proper staff travel too. :E

[mave292]

We had Business Class sby with Emirates however it was taken away from us, rumour has it it will be re-enstated again in the next month or so

[CaptGlenQuagmire]

yawn:zzz:

Mave....I think the biz class is another rumour.... Like the pay review and roster improvements, etc.

(I heard that some silly chick in HR told EK that biz class was not req'd for FD employees, EK now reluctant to give it back! Is that true? )

Why increase pay?people are still joining. Why improve rosters ? Your welfare makes no difference to FD while the flights go ontime.

The latest news is that prospective candidates have to pay for flights and accom costs for interviews... (unlike EK,EY,QY)

'C' payscale next ? :cool:

[scoteros]

Dear Captain Mainwaring,

You are free to express your opinion and even insult the management of FlyDubai if it makes you feeling better... :E:E:E

BUT

For your information some pilots at FlyDubai are happier here than they were at their previous company... :):):)

AND

Pilots are still queueing for interview... :uhoh:

So stay where you are and please don't change your mind :ok::ok:

[young nasty man]

Could someone tell what the difference between the A scale and the B scale? Both Capt and F/O?

[scoteros]

The first group of pilots who joined the company at the start ( around 40 ) are on the A scale then all the pilots joining after were allocated the B scale ( around 10% less than the A scale )

This apply for both Captains and First Officers. :{:{:{

Despite some rumors , there is no official announcement that this will change in the near future. :\:\:\

[young nasty man]

So does that mean that if you guys get it back, that your salary,transport allowance and housing allowance all go up? Will your sector pay increase too?

Seems to me that they would need to, if they want to attract pilots in the numbers that they need!!

Can't see someboby jumping from the likes of FR to FZ for that money!

[CaptGlenQuagmire]

The latest twist from the FD website ;

Selection process

flydubai has partnered with CTC Aviation Group plc (www.ctcaviation.com (http://www.ctcaviation.com)) on pilot selection. All initial pilot assessment activity takes place at CTC's Crew Selection Centre in the UK with successful applicants being invited to Dubai for final interview.

Candidates invited to an initial assessment in the UK attend at their own expense but, if successful, flydubai will provide a return ticket from an Emirates Airline network destination to Dubai for the final interview phase. flydubai will also provide hotel accommodation in Dubai for candidates during this final stage.

Because we invest heavily in this selection process, we ask candidates who are invited to attend the initial selection process to contribute towards the cost when the assessment date is confirmed. The charge is GBP 150 and is fully refundable on successful appointment to flydubai. The refund will be applied for at the time of joining. Unfortunately, a refund cannot be provided to unsuccessful candidates.

:eek:

[Jihad Jim]

Anyone in any doubt as to FDs low cost credentials can now rest easy.

[scoteros]

Captain Mainwaring,

It seems that insulting is the only thing you do but you should maybe also just accept that some people don't have the same view as you have...

You will find pilots happy at Ryanair , British Airways , Virgin Atlantic etc... and at the same time some are not at all...

It doesn't necessarily means that the one happy are all management stooges as you seem to think.

Nobody will never force you to join Flydubai if you don't want to and I will never insult you because you think it is not worth , so please don't insult those who think it is worth to do so....

Just respect the fact that diversity exist on earth...

[doublesector]

Scoteros, Glad youre happy with FD, and the great lifestlye it has to offer :p


Not sure many of us would recommend to friends that they pay USD240 /GBP150 for an interview with FD, when EK, offer far superior package, for simlar experience level... ..for free! :sad:

[scoteros]

Doublesector,

It is funny that people complain when they have to pay 150 for an interview with FZ when thousand of pilots in Europe have paid 250 Euros to Ryanair to be able to send their CV get an interview and do a sim check...

If you want to compare FZ with other companies you have to compare with other low cost airlines and not EK.

Also EK is operating B777 , A330/340/380 , B747 and not B737 and you should know that in our industry the bigger the aircraft the more you are paid...

So comparing the package on offer to EK with the one in FZ is not ( for me ) relevant.

To finish on the subject , you must know that some pilots have had the opportunity to join EK at the same time than FZ and they have chosen FZ...

Between starting as a captain in FZ and starting as a first officer at EK , do you math again and you will see that the package is not as good as you seem to think.

But again , as I have said to captain Mainwaring before , diversity is part of our world and what sound nice to you may not be the case for me and vice versa...

If tomorrow EK comes to me and offer me a position in their company , I will refuse it.
I have met pilots for the last 15 years who were flying for EK or are still flying there and with what I have heart , I prefer to be in FZ.
I can even tell you that 2 pilots that I know have left EK ( captain B777 ) to join Ryanair last year...

So you see...

[olster]

Scoteros - EK are highly unlikely to offer you the gig with them (that you will turn down)tomorrow as flydubai have negotiated a 2 year lock -in for the troops.Your rose -tinted view of fz does not accord with the vast majority of pilots that I speak with.I have not heard of 1 pilot who turned down EK for FZ and they would be insane to do so.

[concretewall]

I know for sure there is pilotS who has choosen FZ for EK,but.. it was based on that they didn't want to give up their left seat.
It's two completely diff jobs so i don't really understand why the discussion is here.
Seems like there's pilots happy/unhappy in both airlines..

[standardboeing]

concretewall you’re right about pilots being happy/unhappy in both airlines but morale within FZ is now dreadful. Thank goodness the architect of the ‘b-scale’ has left (to manage the spicegirls) but who knows which useless moron will replace him. We need some good news fast.

[doublesector]

As you said scoteros, for you its not relevant. :ok:

For anyone else considering the move to Dubai, they would be daft not to compare whats on offer here.

The Ryanair of middle east wants your cash !

[Maj09]

Guys

Read again? no fee for application and the "security deposit" for assessment is....fully refundable on successful appointment to flydubai....

Confident in your abilities and serious about a move.....no issue......it is your choice after all?.....let's not make it sound like we are all foced to fly for the companies we do......or apply for jobs we clearly wish someone would just hand to us!!!!!

[B787J]

Theres been a lot of crap said here that ain't true.

lets start with the 2 year agreement with Ek - was actually initiated by EK themselves and not FZ.

Around the rostering bit - comeon you cry babies the airline is over 15 months into operations, its not perfect but at least they are trying to make things with the new AIMS system :D, management is always looking at ways to improve conditions and work morale, how many airlines in the world actually do that .

look at the command upgrades happening within 15 months of First Officers joining in.:ok:

My advise to you guys would be do not come here and be MISERABLE and make other MISERABLE you would doing yourselves and FZ a favor :ugh:

If you ask me, this is a wonderful ariline to work for ... Off course it is not prefect , but NO AIRLINE in the world is. The good part though is that people enjoy working in it and would be a good airline to work for.

FZ is always looking at ways it can find to improve and be more efficient for this industry.

Lastly you cannot compare the airline to EK, its like comparing Apples to Oranges !!!

Anyway .... cheers and come and join FZ :ok:

[scoteros]

It seems that with B787J , I am not the only one anymore to be quite happy at FZ...

Of course I agree 100% with what B787J have said above...and hope that more people with positive thinking will join instead of negative minded people.

[olster]

B787J,using your excruciating grammar and spelling you seem to want to promote the notion along with your new pal,Scoteros that flydubai is a wonderful 'ariline' (sic).The vast majority of posts on this particular thread have generally been accurate -I wish it weren't so.The fact remains that the roster remains random and chaotic,leaving the circadian rhythm in tatters at the end of a 6 day tour.Pilot morale is low and there appears little enthusiasm from the upper tiers of the company to correct this.Unfortunately,for most,this is not a wonderful ariline at all.Fear not,at the end of the bond period,many will be taking your advice and departing.

[FZckntkawrap]

For the chaps that came from airlines with low reputations that feel coming to work in fear for your job is the norm, than yes flydubai would be a small step up in life. For those that come from, shall we say, more established airlines, it is a step backwards even by lowcost standards. The problem is they brought pilots in with many years of experience on the promise that this "would be your last interview", "you will never want to leave", "Southwest of the middle-east", and everyones favorite "you do the math". Even if you forget the rosters and just concentrate on the management aspect this place is no where near anything like Southwest.

FYI. The 2 year no EK ban was not from EK, it was directly from the top at flydubai.....

AIMS could make everyone's roster better, but the users are clueless and won't let go of any control over the pilot group. They want to roster us like office workers, end of story......

commmand upgrades in 15 months? Got your app in? Welcome to rocket school!

"People" don't enjoy working in it. Everytime I go in the briefing room "people" are complaining about 6on/2off rosters with changing work patterns, getting sick from crew food, split A/B pay scales, lack of information from management, our top notch safety department that puts out soooooo much useful information to make the operation soooooo much safer, and the snazzy uniforms (hey, at least they are free right? and they get you a free drink at JBR security guard appreciation night!)

[Spit The Dummie]

olster - B787J is almost certainly a new hire. Previous posts suggest a F/O from Qatar Airways?, who seems to have swallowed FZs interview promises hook, line, and sphincter… doh! Just give it a few months and wait for them to be back on here with a change of view! ;)

FZckntkawrap - You mention the safety department. Did you know that the COO's recent weekly update, supposedly penned by the Manager SMS, was nothing more than cut + paste of definitions from the FAA (http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/sms/) and Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_Management_Systems)?! Whilst the COOs intention might have been to promote the black-ops guy as some sort of 'safety guru' the truth is easily determined.

And is it true that the person who heads rostering in flydubai was previously sacked from the same job in Etihad for incompetence? By all accounts the GCAA were so appalled at Etihad's rosters they very nearly pulled its AOC. Maybe this explains why rosters in flydubai have been so bad? Having AIMS will make little difference all the time that someone of this caliber is tinkering at the edges!

[FZckntkawrap]

I guess my sarcasm was a little bit over the top with regards to flydubai's safety "guru".....

[park360]

spit the dummie!

I have been a dummie myself like you not to know what happens on the other side...until i spent some time . All i can say is...get used to another day another dollar concept...not sure what u expect... don't brood and moan when you can leave and go to greener pastures...I guess all that takes B..... by the way...you got yr facts wrong about the head of rostering guy...he is ex.EY and is well known among the instructor group there..I believe he was asked to join he left EY. Personally...with all the complexities involved I reckon he's doing a good job. the problem is in our expectations.

[doublesector]

Park....

Thats hilarious, the best laugh I've had on here for a while ! :D

You clearly have this months golden roster.

For the rest of us, it is a total shambles. The constant use of 18-24hr rest periods after 2-3am finishes is utterly soul destroying. I know of guys reporting at 1:00 am having been awake for 13 hrs at the start of a duty. The circadian rhythm is virtually non existant by the end of each duty block. Personally, I have never felt so unhealthy in all my life.

We have all heard the stories here about guys missing radio calls (and worse) because they have fallen asleep. Its still happening. To date none of this has been addressed and there's a notable silence from Mr saftey in response to reports & asr's concerning fatigue. Don't even mention the ROSI that was filed to the GCAA.

Hopefully it will improve, meanwhile it's and accident waiting to happen and not sustainable.

Good Job........

[park360]

Doublesector,

I don't think you are reporting the facts, I was incapacitated for a while and during that time i was able to spend a lot of time with the rostering team...All I can say is..get out of the kitchen if you cant stand the heat

[doublesector]

Thanks Park, A simple and elegant solution to all the FD rostering issues, almost managerial in stance, but sadly not very constructive.

Perhaps given your first hand knowledge of FD rostering, you would be kind enough to enlighten us all and explain some of the issues from a rostering veiwpoint. Any explanation of rostering practices and policies from upstairs is somewhat vague and so far not terribly convincing.

[Speedbake]

"head of rostering guy...he is ex.EYand is well known among the instructor group" this may very well be true ...he is another James Hogan cronie...Ex. GF..Ex. EY....possibly soon Ex. FD..!!! an excellant A** L***** wasn't liked by pilots & CC at niether airlines ...!!! if this is the same guy am thinking about ...make him feel at home boys!! :cool: :p

in the brownies!!

[park360]

Speedbake...sorry...your:= source of information is not accurate...

[aeroweb340]

any feedback on the Flydubai CTC wings selection process?:ugh:
thanks

[Obi Wan Kirk]

I just read that FlyDubai has appointed CTC to select their pilots.

For the first part of the selection they are asking candidates to pay £150.00.
We are about to have a massive pilot shortage and here is a rapidly expanding airline asking potential employees to pay to be interviewed.

Are they finding enough people?
I know Emirates seem to be struggling.

[exeng]

My advice is that any company that asks you to pay for initial selection is a good sign that that company needs to be avoided.

The global market for experienced Pilots is on the upturn just now in my opinion. (That situation could of course well turn the other way in a very short time)

I never have, and never will pay an airline for the privilege of an inteview with me - nor also will I pay for any training that I may need to fly their aircraft type.


Regards
Exeng

[PRT2010]

The appointment of CTC by FlyDubai is a shocker at best and should be avoided at all costs.

FlyDubai are in need of pilots as expansion plans are a foot with new a/c soon to be delivered. However with the pilot job market on the rise paying for an interview is appalling. Its one way for CTC to make money. Its even worse when you look at the fact that you can be out on day 1 before even having the sim check!

FlyDubai has the possibility of being a good airline, and with a relative currently working for them, a few small changes would make things a lot more impressive. However right now its not brilliant and this way of recruiting is not helping. :oh:

[Lubeoil]

A few months ago I applied to Flydubai directly however I have recieved an email telling me to re-apply through CTC and yes, they want me to pay 150 pounds for the assesment. There is absolutely no chance that I'll be paying them for the pleasure of an interview. I think such recruitment strategy creates a poor impression of this company. They really should be ashamed.

[Janu]

Paying for an interview, as if we hadn't heard enough already! Ah, at least they'll most probably get some reasonable CV's this way... they hope.

[dan1165]

150 £ for their ****y selection !!! :eek:

[Sindbad]

Never heard of checkride on a Fixed Base Simulator before.
Does CTC have a 737NG Full Flight Sim?

[Kernow 101]

Weren`t the requirements for 2,500 total time before?? Website now says 1,500..........Guess EK must have had a hit on their recruitment source?

As for CTC getting in on the act :yuk::yuk::yuk:

[737737737]

Hello! does anyone have any idea about what kind of questions are presented during CTC interview for flydubai? Thanks!

[Obi Wan Kirk]

A friend of mine with 3000 hrs on B737NG has four interviews in 15 days in four different countries. Vietnam, Indonesia, poland & Turkey. They are paying for him to fly there + accomodation and sim check. I say this as it is a CLEAR indication that the pilot shortage has already started...

So you guys in FlyDubai had better change policy or you will have your new B737s sitting on the ground with no drivers.

[Coolflying]

I got an interview for Nov, but 150 pounds= 234 US plus Airline ticket plus Hotel accommodation plus food, you looking at over 2000 US just to see if you get a job, then if you are so lucky requires you to be bonded for 3 years, let me think about it, NO.:=

Regards,

[Aussie]

Out of interest mate, where is he interviewing in Poland? Enter air?

Cheers

[Obi Wan Kirk]

Hi Aussie,

I am not sure which Polish outfit, but four interviews in 15 days is a VERY good sign the market is in our favour.

[737737737]

well...actually they say that in case you pass the interview you will receive money back. At least it look like fair to me...well, will see...

[Luckyguy]

I don't consider that fair at all. What about the poor guys, starting out on their careers, who have already committed their funds to a licence, type rating and line training ? They find themselves paying out money they have begged, borrowed or stolen, YET AGAIN........ for an interview !!
And when they get the letter saying, " We regret to.......".

It's just another example of an employer of professional people, seeking ways to offset the cost of recruiting pilots, using the funds of those who can ill afford it.

Look through this site. It is littered with threads about the gradual erosion of the T's & C's of professional pilots. Pilots who, through no fault of their own, find themselves searching for jobs after committing years of effort, experience and safe operation to the industry. Pilots who have little choice other than to accept the new offer so that their jobs are safe until the management find another way to strip the meat right down to the bone and beyond.
The beyond ?........ Paying for an interview along with the newly qualified professionals who they will share their experience with, to work professionally, efficiently and safely for an employer,who given half a chance will pay him less, work him harder and not give a tinkers cuss about his staff number.

SHOCKING !!

Rant over.

:ugh:

[Tuborglite]

Is the 500h on type an absolute or have people with less been hired??

[paokara]

Dear Flydubai recruiter:

I would love to come and interview with your company, however first I would like you to send me a $3000 certified check for my airline ticket with Emirates and airport expenses till I get there.
I would like to get picked up at the airport by your staff and placed on a 4 star hotel while the interview process takes place with breakfast, lunch and dinner included.

Here is what I have to offer to you:
Bachelors Degree in Aeronautics
FAA ATPL with 5 type ratings and 14125 hrs total. B737 command 1250 hrs, other jet command 8245 hrs.

If my qualifications are of interest to you, dont call me just send me the check with a phone number and a person to call.

Sincerely,

will not fly for food

[Captain Partzee]

Paokara. You are absolutely right. But unfortunately after all you read this:
" Hello! does anyone have any idea about what kind of questions are presented during CTC interview for flydubai? Thanks!"
The meaning is fly for food! :mad:

[scoteros]

Hello everybody,

First of all , I don't see the point to insult Flydubai or any other company when they require us to pay some money to go for an interview...

We are in a free world and nobody will never force you to go for it BUT the real problem I see and have seen for far too long is PILOTS ready to pay.

So if you want to insult somebody , you should target your fellow pilots accepting to do so...

Why should a company stop to do so if pilots are sending their CV and are going to the interview ?

This problem has been raised years ago by the pilot's union in my company where every training was paid by the company and nobody had never paid for a type rating...

Look what is happening in Europe for example with Ryanair , they have done it for more than 15 years and every pilot joining has to pay for his recurrent training in the simulator every 6 months , what about the command upgrade ( the trainee has to pay for his food and accommodation during the training and will be paid 90% of a full captain salary for the first 6 months on line ... etc... )

Is Ryanair short of pilots ?

So before complaining let's try to educate our fellow pilots and then the company will not find anybody accepting their conditions and then the problem will be sorted out...

[scoteros]

Tuborglite,

Pilots with less than 500 Hrs on type have been hired and even without B737 type rating when the company started but I am not sure it is still the case...

[737737737]

First of all...come down please. Is this a forum to complain or the aim is to help people to find useful info. Please keep your comments and try to answer questions...not attacking people. Everyone has his own reasons and can decide what to do...and one more time...come down. Are you Pilots or what??? when do you have to land the ac with extreme winds do you fly or you start yelling against God who is giving you strong crosswinds???

[kotakota]

7737 - whatever................

dry your eyes................. ( Rhodesia - 19voetsak.......)

[737737737]

...what does it mean "whatever........"?

[scandicstar]

What happened to your friend with 3K NG hours after going thru four interviews in four different countries in two weeks? Is he contemplating to join any of the companies or the companies are contemplating to take him:O? Your answer is an indication of pilots supply and demand.

[paokara]

I just want to make a point here:

My services are not for free. If an airline want me to be their pilot and represent the airline as soon as I walk out of my house and way before I turn a switch........then my time is going to be paid.

you are right, pilots should not pay a dollar for all the above you mentioned.

I NEVER DID AND NEVER WILL

[BurDubaiBob]

Dear F/O colleagues, forget about studying all those boring manuals, or attending a tough command upgrade interview, or partaking in rigorous command upgrade simulator sessions, or any of those rocket polishing hoops that you’re expected to jump through in order to get a Command at flydubai.

If you want a Command at flydubai it’s now much simpler than you could ever believe. All you have to do is to become the ‘Safety Manager’ !!

Then, without even so much as an interview, or a current medical, or a simulator assessment, or a Type-Rating on B737-800, or thousands of hours on type, or attending recurrent training courses, etc, YOU TOO will be able to don the full regalia of a flydubai Captain, complete with shiny gold wings and 4 stripes upon your shoulders!

But wait, there’s even more!

Your newly found pseudo-rank will give you all the power that your Walter Mitty persona demands. You will think it ok to turn up, uninvited, aboard the company’s flights, invite yourself into the flight deck and sit on a jump seat for hours upon end, from where you can then make a complete ass of yourself and further dispel all myths that your are a professional Airman in any other sense than your surname.

Yes sir’ee, by simply going to the Uniform Stores Department and procuring a flydubai Captains uniform you too can masquerade and swan about as a flydubai Captain!!

STOP PRESS!!! Due to unprecedented demand, the Uniform Stores Department, are no longer accepting walk-in fittings and so you’ll need to phone ahead to arrange an appointment for the fitting of your shiny new flydubai Captains uniform. But do get your order in soon, before every Tom, Dick, and Harry catches on to the idea that to become a professional Captain requires nothing more than putting on the uniform!!!

In all seriousness folks, apart from the blatant insult that this serves towards our Captains, who have worked long & hard to earn their position, and likewise the insult towards our F/O’s who are presently tearing their hair out trying to move from the right seat to the left seat, surely there must be a law against this sort of outrageous impersonation and impropriety against our professional standards & integrity?! :ugh: :mad:

[mave292]

Brilliant :D Thought it was just a rumour, this cant be legal ??

[doublesector]

Bob,

After almost Pi$$ing myself laughing, I still cant decide if this latest move is outrageous, outrageously funny :E .... or both !

Its even funnier than when he was seen parading around in a bullet proof vest airside in Kabul !

Either way, for the reasons you highlight, its unacceptable.

He really should stick to 'counting' brake applications.....:rolleyes:

[CaptGlenQuagmire]

Is it true the same guy has a Dubai Police uniform too, but only wears it when entertaining at Hen Parties ..... :ok:

[jimmyg]

I thought that everyone here in the ME in uniform was addressed as Captain:cool:

[James T. Kirk]

Surely it's a bit more involved than just putting on the uniform (hereafter referred to as costume). Don't you have to attend the same church every Sunday as Trailer Trash, Magoo and Bilko? I am surprised that the uniform stores hold costume stock in such "Wee" sizes.;)

[jockebill]

Does anyone have any information about the recruiting process for Flydubai now when it's CTC doing it for them?

[737737737]

That's what I heve been asking already many times...but here everyone looks to more interested in other discussions...

[scoteros]

That's maybe because nobody knows...

It's new so , who knows ? except CTC and the top management of the company which will not come on this site to answer you.

You have to be patient enough to wait until the first guy went through and then maybe there will be somebody able to answer you...

[737737737]

Thanks for the info, I had understood. However, it is hard to find the information you seek in a forum where some people they are just attacking each other ....
Ok, lest's wait for the first one walking the CTC doors... :-)

[Sindbad]

Thank you for submitting your online application to flydubai.

We are pleased to inform you that you have been selected to progress through to the telephone interview. This element will take approximately 5 minutes to complete.

You will be contacted by a member of the Pilot Recruitment Team within 72 hours. To prepare ahead of this interview, we would be grateful if you could have the following information to hand:

- Date of Birth
- Application number
- Details of your unrestricted Class 1 medical and date of expiry
- ICAO Level 4 English details
- Confirmation of your total flying hours/B737 hrs/PIC hrs if applicable

Your availability to attend assessment will be checked as we are currently looking for those sucessful through the initial screening to attend an event DD/MM. Dates will then be run on a fortnightly basis.

The assessment will take place at Dibden Manor, Southampton, UK.

Please note that those who successfully pass their assessment day will be required to undertake a simulator assessment on the following day and an overnight stay will be required.

We looking forward to speaking with you soon but as we have limited time in which to complete the short telephone interview, we will not be able to answer any queries and would ask that you hold them until you are contacted with the result.

Regards

Pilot Recruitment Team

[jasonjdr]

Did they not also ask you to have a credit or debit card handy aswell for the telephone interview now its CTC :}:}

[Sindbad]

jason dj
I withdrew my application before they did :}
It made no sense interviewing in the UK for a job in DXB!

[737737737]

My advice is: do not waste energy and money. The first day of selection has nothing to do with aviation experience. CTC does not give any feedback to candidates. Some Pilots are selected for the SIM session, some others aren’t, without any explanation. I spent lot of money, that’s the only thing I know for sure!

Good luck!:ugh::ugh:

[Dio]

Any update on Flydubai? I hear they are ringing around for guys to start next week!!

[scoteros]

I heard also that the recruitment via CTC is not working as planned , it seems that there are not a lot of people showing up....

On top of that , 5 more pilots recently resigned ( one of them being a first officer who has been offered an command upgrade... )

It seems that the honeymoon between the company and the pilots is over

[johnz]

Despite the fact that I am not a pilot YET, I really enjoyed your info on Fly Dubai... very educational.

This is actually the first time I read about Airline interviews and tests.

Once again great info, Thanks,

Cheers

[Cabair351]

Hi,

Just hoping someone who has recently been through the CTC Flydubai assessment can provide a little information about what to expect, particularly regarding the Pilapt/interview etc...

Thanks in advance.

[Iver]

Anyone venture to guess how many Ryanair pilots have jumped over to Flydubai? What percentage of new pilots at FD come from European airlines?

This has probably been asked before many times, but if you have 737-800 experience (and you meet more than the minimum requirements), why not just apply to EK and fly the 777? I suppose if you want to avoid long-haul flying and layovers down route maybe Flydubai would work better for you.

[ManaAdaSystem]

It would be smart of Flydubai to target FR pilots. After all, FR pilots are used to bending over constantly, so that is nothing new for them. For senior FR Effohs: A command in Dubai with FZ or Belarus with FR.

What would you choose?

[scoteros]

Flydubai without any doubt....

[b737to744]

I was one of the first group of candidates to attend the assessment at CTC aviation on the 9th of NOV.After reaching LHR,I took the national express bus to Southampton.Then I took a taxi to Dibdon manor,ctc aviation compound.The bus takes around 2 hours and the taxi 15minutes.The cost of the bus is 23.4pound(if you purchase a round trip ticket) and for the taxi 21pound.The cost of the room is 45pound per day including breakfast.
The first day was group exercise,pilapt(pilot aptitude) and interview.we were 8 and separated in to two groups.one group does the group exercise and the other pilapt.The group exercise consists of two tasks.As it was the first time,HR people came from flydubai to watch the process.The plapt does not consist ATPL and maths test as in compass test.It only consists aptitude tests,six of them.You will be given 3 trials and you are required to show improvement from your previous score.After lunch,which is free,6 of us passed for the interview.The interview is evidence based as you have seen in the application.Why do you want to join FD,what will you bring to FD,what is your leadership style.etc.
After the interview,only three guys passed to the next days sim assessment.I was one of the guys who didn't make it to the sim.You spend a lot of money for the entire process.I think it is not fair for FD management to do this.
I wish good luck to all of you who are going to attend one of the assessments.

[Cabair351]

Dear B737to744,

Thank you very much for the information.

[DQ4]

I understand FlyDubai are to increase the salary and benefits (Accommodation allowance etc) back to the original levels the initial crew received. Any idea when this will happen?

[bowing]

When they get rid of CTC

[TAGAZOU HOU HOU]

This post is for all Boeing 737 pilots who are planning to attend an assessment day at CTC.

Stay away from them and their Shenanigans.

[TAGAZOU HOU HOU]

It's a scam to pay £ 150 for an interview. This is not normal and is no longer the goal of selecting pilots but to make money on the backs of candidates. This process is a real shame.

[PRT2010]

Just reading through the posts about FD and must say they most ring true - from what I've been told by very close friends currently at FD.

Currently though the number of FR guys 'jumping' to FD is minimal - i.e. its still in single digits - not like EK!! And a command in Belarus....that's a new one!!! Good to see the rumor network hard at work! :D

A large proportion are ex Astraeus pilots inc HOT. Nearly all of them are those who jumped ship to Zoom and when that went under, the door at AEU was closed for most of them. :ugh:

My concern as mentioned by others is those experienced guys who feel that they need to pay to attend an interview! Its crazy and disrespectful to say the least and in the current market, just wrong!! :=

It seems to be CTC's greedy way and are happy taking advantage of those idiotic enough to pay. Even worse though is FD bonding TR guys for a significantly large sum!! For what exactly?? It sounds like a lack of confidence by senior management at FD!

Annoyingly like many new airlines they have the opportunity to do very well and be an airline people push to work for, however currently the opposite is the case. I personally don't think GAG, KG or DR have done themselves any favors! Worse still only a few adjustments are needed to significantly improve the situation, but from what the bush telegraph is reporting.... the yanks will not be moved! :ugh:

Pity.

[Old King Coal]

PRT2010, whilst looking to avoid thread creep, the last time I checked, out of approximately 100 Captains at flydubai just 4% of them have prior experience of working with Astraeus, and out of approximately 100 F/O's at flydubai just 2% of them have prior experience of working with Astraeus. So an overall aggregate of just 3% of the flydubai pilot force, which is hardly "A large proportion are ex Astraeus pilots inc HOT" as you put it and, fwiw, I think you'll find that HOT is Qatar B777.
Not a single pilot has come directly from Astraeus - which probably reflects something good about working for Astraeus?! ;)

[BritishGuy]

Does anyone know if FD is still entertaining interviewing folks locally (in Dubai), if they're residents in Dubai? I know up until about 2-3 weeks ago they were. One Captain from my airline was told to go to CTC in the UK and when he mentioned to them that would it be a problem if he just interviewed locally as we're Dubai based, they said 'sure' and he just ended up interviewing in Dubai. Is this still the case, or is CTC the HARD rule now?

[PRT2010]

Well hello "Old King Coal". Good to see you're well. Just to confirm what I said: "A large proportion are ex Astraeus pilots inc HOT. Nearly all of them are those who jumped ship to Zoom and when that went under, the door at AEU was closed for most of them."There are more than 4% Capt ex AEU at FD as well as more than 2% F/O's and randomly that can be confirmed by the FTM who is also ex AEU. ;)

Not to worry either way as the problem still resides on the main issue of people paying for interviews and allowing themselves to be unnecessarily bonded. :=

Hopefully the mgmt will open up to changes - only time will tell.

[CFM-56NG]

Basic salaryAED 17,000Housing allowanceAED 12,000Transportation allowanceAED 1,700Variable flying pay
(based on working an 80-hour month)AED 8,000Projected totalAED 38,700
OK ...
considering all the bs made by ctc aviation ... is the salary worth the sacrifice????
I am considering to try however i am in doubt about aply to ek or fd for a reason .... salary and benefits ( considering i am a young f/o around 2000hrs on ng's) fly dubai seems to pay a lil more considering you can save the accomodation allowance, and i dont know if this is possible with ek.. having i ll be on right seat for at least couple more years till qualify for cpt training
however the workload seems to be compatible with what im flying today around 85hrs/m
by the way how the accomodation allowance is paid??? in one shot or comes within the salary???
how are the rent rates in dubai ??? can you find some reasonable apt for 60k?????
how about days off and night flying??? very long?
fd seems to upgrade faster than ek dont know if is that real...
can anyone enlight me on that one????


i ve been in dubai years ago and worked for ek as ground crew so i know what to expect from ek and dubai as a city ... but how about fd????
should i seat on my company for few more hours and try to aply for ek???
:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[scoteros]

Dear CFM-56NG,

This topic has been already covered before.

Personally I don't understand how we can compare EK and FZ as there are two completely different airlines.

What do you want ?

If you want to fly big aircraft , stay in hotels all over the world with up to 26 cabin crew members , wear classic pilot uniform with a hat etc... then choose EK.

Now if you prefer to be home more often , avoid to sleep at outstation , wear a more relax uniform with no hat and no jacket , walk to your aircraft with only 4 cabin crew members and are not frustrated to fly smaller airplane , then choose FZ.

I don't think that one is worse or better than another , it's just completely different business.

About the command upgrade it is like everywhere else , if you are there at the right time with the minimum requirement and the fleet is growing rapidly then your command upgrade will be quicker...

For the time being one copilot has been upgraded at FZ after just one year ; it will be like this for the ones who joined early BUT who knows what it will be for the others ?

On top of that out of the 3 first copilots send for the upgrade only one , so far , has been successful ( one failed the interview , the second the simulator training )
By the way the one who passed had more than 10500 hours total time with thousand of hours as captain on other smaller jet aircraft so...

This kind of choice is so personal that you are the only one able to decide BUT before doing so ask the right questions to get all the information you need to make YOUR right decision...

Good luck

[olster]

Choose FZ over EK? Now that is hilarious.Satire is alive and well.

[PGP737]

I went as well on the 9th Nov. at CTC... I paid a lot of money just to see my self getting fool, by the HR of CTC!!! I have many thousant hours on the B737 and I didn't pass the evidence based interview. Good luck to the 3 guys that did it.

[FZckntkawrap]

In all fairness to FZ, the first several classes of FO's had people with high flight time, but 0 737 time. A few months later the company started hiring 737 qual'd FOs only. Those chaps are now coming up on the 12 months since initial line check and are being interviewed for command. The SFO's that didn't have the 1,000 737 time will have it shortly and will interview as well......it's only a matter of time.

[doublesector]

The current recruitment system is a croc of sh1te, and will not last long as FZ will be parking up aircraft due to lack of crew. Even guys upstairs are concerned about recruitment..and RETENTION even more so. Brace yourselves for some busy months ahead guys. New a/c imminent, but not enough recruits.

Still many issues at Fd to that make it unattractive to many. How many consec days off do you get ? Are you getting 80 hrs flying and the 16 days off as promised? The present leave system is a awful. Why bid for the whole year but only get the leave confirmed just weeks in advance? Rosters, confirmation of days off and leave are all left to the last minute. Are your leave plans working out? Have you Experienced the joy of making a medical claim here at FZ? Even the CP and COO had to either stump up the $$$, or go back to the U.S as the medical cover at FZ is utterly Inadequate. Massive bond for guys already type rated. Add all this to the Ctc experience and it's not terribly attractive right now. It might just convince guys to look elsewhere and consider long haul.

At fd you PAY your money first, THEN you make your choice.

[scoteros]

Doublesector,

As said before , if you are so disappointed by FZ and it is a so bad company to work for , why do you stay ?

Five pilots have resigned recently and a few other already left the company , so feel free to go where it's greener...

But before leaving , have also a look to other threads like the one about Emirates , Qatar Airways , Etihad etc... and you will see that it seems that pilots think like you about these companies.

You will never find a company where everybody is happy and you will always find people to see the bad points and not the good ones BUT as far as I can see all the so called bad companies still find pilots to fly their airplanes.

Even a company where the CEO says that he would like to replace the first officer by a cabin crew member is still finding pilots to fly his airplane so....

Hope you will find you dream airline

PS:Just a thought , if pilots were using their energy to unite and to bring changes in their company instead of complaining all the time , maybe things would be different...

[doublesector]

You do agree the above is correct though?

Potential joiners might like to be aware of the pitfalls before they shell out £150, plus flights and accomodation to join FD.

Youre right, all airlines have good and bad points, and It would appear all airlines in the ME have similar issues. (some worse than others)

But, surely the downsides can be discussed here without being given the ''dont like it, then leave'' line. That sounds like a management quote and wont solve anything. As for uniting and sorting the problems, a good idea, but does anyone think that will work here? There was an attempt to set up a pilot group / roster commitee etc in the first few months, but the idea was quashed. Maybe different now.:hmm:

[scoteros]

Doublesector,

I agree only partially with you but my goal was not at all to be nasty with you or to push you or anybody else to leave...

It is not because I am saying something positive that I am from the management.There are also normal line pilot ( Cpt and F/o ) quite happy here even if they all agree that there are things to be improved...

I also agree that the downsides have to be discussed but not ONLY the downsides , each time some of my friends ask me about the company I try to give them all the information at once ( good and bad ) and I let them decide.
Because your post was titled "SAVE YOUR MONEY...GO ELSEWHERE ! "
Which , according to me , does not leave any other outcome that it is not worth to join that company...

I totally agree that leaving will not sort out anything and that's why I have also told you to look at the other threads before taking your decision as I think it is not brighter in plenty of other airlines that we could have the opportunity to join...

I personally have raised the CTC recruitment issue to the management and as I have told you if we were talking to each other ( united ) we could agree to ask every pilot to raise the problem and then maybe things could start to change.

Many guys I meet and who are not very happy about what is going on here , when I ask them "what have you done about it ?" Most of the time I got this answer " nothing "

That's where the problem is , of course we can not create a union in this country but I am sure there is a smart way to deal slowly with the problems we are facing by taking our responsibility.

That was the all meaning of my answer to your post.

Of course it will be easier for us if we could convince all the pilots not to join the company and then they will have no other choice than to raise the conditions and be nicer with us but as soon as the pilot force will be in place then we will be quickly back to where we were , that's why I don't really like that way of doing.
It would be better to all agree on something that we want and to go and discuss it with the management.
And don't say it is not possible here , it is possible , as long as we are smart enough to talk to each other and stay united.
If it is to do like in some European low cost companies where each time the management is nasty with one pilot who dared to raise his voice the others don't move a finger then of course it will not be possible...

[DQ4]

Will the Terms and Conditions be returned to the original offered at the beginning?

[piloten23]

hi guys

anybody who went for the assesment for flydubai recently, that could give any tips about what they do on these test in CTC OR IN DUBAI

HAVE AN ASSESMENT SOON

[turbine100]

As someone trying to get a foot in the door in the industry with 500 hours, AOC work on light aircraft and trained part-time, around a full time job to pay for my JAA license etc as I went. (Same as many others etc) I find it really frustrating that CTC come along, especially the fact that you have to go through them and no longer direct, attend the same selection as someone wanting to train from scratch on a cadet scheme, when someone like myself has a license, bit of experience and no debts as I worked bloody hard.

Personally I am at a point where I don't mind paying towards a TR if tied to a job and gets my foot in the door on a common type.

However I would rather be able to apply directly to airline without the CTC bit and knowing they affect the T&C's etc of those experienced on type.

Happy days and wish you guys all the best at Fly Dubai

Oh, if anyone knows of any F/O jobs, please PM me :)

[PGP737]

@turbine100
You are not british that's why ctc aviation rejected you!
My too!

[travelin12]

Hi, I have read alot of stuff about the CTC interview. Does anyone have any specific info as to the process? What is the "evidence based" interview all about. Received an invite for the interview but wanted to do some research before I spend 150GRP for nothing. Current and qualified B737NG Captain with over 16000 TT USA Passport. Thanks to all who can shed some light on CTC.

[travelin12]

I have an FAA waiver for defective color vision. Does anyone know whether the UAE GCAA accepts that? I reviewed the medical standards in their regulations and it seems there is some tolerance. I have an upcoming CTC assessment and don't want to throw away the 150GBP and travel expense for nothing.

thanks...

[expatinaction]

Does anyone have a number for FlyDubai please????

[olster]

0800-150-ripoff

[Voodoo 3]

Shouldn't that instead be 0800-2000-allday followed by 2000-0600-allnight!? :(

[blusky75]

I received their mail in which They told me to espect a call in 72 hours....
2 days after They sent me an e-mail telling me They called me but were not able to reach me and that They would have tried to call again the next day...... from that day I have not received any call yet!!!!!
20 days have passed...
Am i the only one in this situation??

[jupilair]

BlueSky if they have tried to call you you should be able to see there number on your phone...You just have to call them back you push on 2 and you answer there questions.

But seriously is that a joke???Which qualified pilot on the 737 with a certain amount of hours will pay even one cent to get an interview, especially now when so much companies around the world offer free interview with most of the time flights, Hotac and sometimes food???
It's time that somebody help seriously the HR of FD...

[blusky75]

if I had found the missed call I would have called back for sure, but that day I had been flown all the day and when I switched on my phone I didn t see any message, I discovered only checking my mail that they tried to call me..anyway...today I got the answer via e-mail. They told me sorry for the delay but they had a lack of staff due to the Christams holydays and they will call me during the next days...we will see.... actually it is true, it is a pity to pay for an interview.... but at the moment i think that FD is the only Company offering something of decent....

[Alaska737]

What happened to an announcement?

[DQ4]

I would be interested, but they would need to improve all areas of the terms and conditions before I would consider moving my myself and family out to Dubai.

[vector3]

A flyDubai flight was grounded at Amman international airport following a bomb threat from a passenger.

Passengers were evacuated after a man, who reportedly works as a co-pilot in the UAE, asked to see the pilot.

When he was refused he claimed ha had a bomb and threatened to blow up the plane.

Police were alerted and managed to evacuate the passengers before beginning a search of the plane, but no explosives were found.

The passenger who made the bomb threat is a co-pilot who works in the United Arab Emirates, a security official said.

"He said he was just making a joke. He was arrested, and an investigation is now under way," he added.

[BritishGuy]

I know FlyDubai (or should I say CTC) are conducting interviews at various locations in Feb/Mar of this year. They also have Dubai as a location they'll be interviewing in. Does anyone know if CTC will be conducting the interview, or with FlyDubai be doing the Dubai based interviews the way they have been doing in the past (before the whole CTC rubbish got involved).

[blusky75]

This I don t know....I was contacted yesterday via e-mail...They said there is anymore the phone interview and I can choose the date from the website( only in UK) but also They said that it is possible to do the interview in Dubai ( commencing from February the 7th) or New Zeland ( to be confirmed)...
I asked if it s possible to attend at the Dubai selection Process...so waiting for an answer.

I think that it could be good coz maybe You do everything in the same day, final interview included ( i m so optimistic :))) )

[expatinaction]

Please does anybody have a phone number or a direct e-mail address for HR?? Thanks.

[frogone]

I have to agree with Australian guy, this is nothing more than a con. £150 for an interview, so where do you draw the line?

CTC can invite as many as they want for an interview and take no one if they so wish. It's nothing more than a black economy.

I've never had much time for CTC, they are just a bunch sharks with an over inflated opinion of themselves. :yuk: FlyDubai should do themselves a favor and kick them into touch!

[jimmyg]

Bravo:D!

If only more pilots are willing stand up for are hard earned profession; I would not be working as a contract pilot in the Middle East.

[desertopsguy]

They learned this trick from Ryanair who first started this con some years back. Although, I believe FR directed it towards the 250hr zero to hero wannabe's... Seems FlyDubai have taken it a step further.

You can complain about it all you want, there will be no shortage of takers, the hiring machine will grind on with or without your contribution am afraid.