Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged

[Flyer1015]

medical is part of the selection process, a medical 1st class you get after joining, doing everything again; there are some clinics in bahrain and qatar that are GACA authorized, you may get one there if you like... good luck.

D
Are the medical standards the exact same as the UAE GCAA, or does flyDubai have their own stanards?

For example, at Emirates, when you fill out the application form, there is a medical portion and they have an attachement for Emirates medical standards, which may vary (eg, more strict) than the UAE GCAA 1st class standards.

What's flyDubai's take on the medical? Just UAE GCAA standards, or more?

[dubaigong]

For our medical renewal we can go anywhere we want to go as long as the doctor is GCAA approved so I guess they just follow the GCAA requirement...

[cedex]

Just been trough the CTC-assessment, and now got invited for the final stage in Dubai. Can anybody please PM me some info about the interview in Dubai?
Would be greatly appreciated:}

[ce650flyer]

Just got called for the CTC assessment in the UK on the 16th. Can anyone with any information please PM me with details.

Thanks

[The Prophet of Truth]

Do not worry about the interviews, the company has dropped the standards a lot. From the last group 5 out of 6 were selected......... there are more people leaving than people coming........It seems that the Annual Leaves in Oct and Nov will be cancelled. Think well before joining. Good luck!

[dubaigong]

This is not true... := As far as I know there are only 2 pilots on their notice period right now and around 12 in total left the company since March 2009. :ok:

How can you say that there are more people leaving than people coming ??? :ooh:

It's obvious that you would like to see a lot of people leaving the company and maybe a lot of them are looking for another job BUT only a few are leaving for the time being.

Please try to state facts and not rumors even if this site is called pilot rumors network....

[The Prophet of Truth]

Dear Gong,

Last month at least 4 pilots didn't show up for the GS and 2 left the company, there was an email from CP about it remember? Please do your math again! I said what is going on now, not what happened in the past, besides, I will do my math but I am pretty sure that more than 12 left the airline.........Sorry, maybe I am not keeping the track of it as good as you are......

[dubaigong]

You really hate this company too much , you should think about leaving it will be better for you health...
And if you were doing your math correctly , first , you would not count the pilot who did not even start in the company ( how can they leave if they did not even start )
Second , if more were leaving than coming the total number of pilots should be decreasing and this is not the case...

I am very sorry

[The Prophet of Truth]

Dubaigong,

Please don't take things personally. First I guess nobody hates Flydubai.....people have complains and issues and that is what we have been talking about in this site. FZ is not the only company who is having difficulties in finding crew. I am just pointing the fact that if they don't make things better here, there is a chance, just a chance to have flights cancelled in the future for lack of crew. FZ could be one of the best jobs out there with just few changes........

I guess everyone will agree that they could do few thins better like:

1) Better insurance, specially for those flying into war zones;
2) better health insurance (the current one is good for small procedures but fails to cover major things);
3) same payment for pilots, enough with the different scales;
4) no more 3 night flights in a row, I guess everyone agrees that even been legal it is really hard on the 3rd night.

I tried to point few thing to been taken into account for the new joiners....
They have other options out there and they should consider. One think that brings many pilots to fz is the fast upgrade, but it is not that fast anymore (is still fast compared to other airlines but now is around 18 months). This upgrade time will gradually and slowly increase as it is a natural process in every airline. When I search for a job I look at pprune to see what people say about it and I like to get some different points of view. Fz is not perfect like some people try to make it appear, but I NEVER said it was bad..........I just pointed there are a lot of people unhappy, a lot of people leaving or trying to and not so many coming anymore. Actually I am happy here but that are few points that really bothers me and I would like to see them solved rather than resign. Of course that if nothing changes I will eventually consider a relocation. Try not to take those comment as something personal buddy. I have nothing against you and I am starting to thing that this thread is loosing its point............anyway thanks for reading!

Safe flights!

[skysod]

Have to agree......flydubai isn't perfect, but I'm just into my 3rd year with the company and for the record I'm happy and I'm staying!!:):):)

[Guided accordingly]

C'mon Gong, Get off the fence and grow some ! One minute youre pro, next minute you'll be thinking HGS is the best thing since slice bread, so to speak.

(BTW, love the latest low vis training mail, no one else thinks HGS is worth a ****e in real conditions, 2nd AP all the way !)

Your figures differ from mine. Sorry or not, I think youre talking Bol*&^ks . Recruitment is down the pan and People will be leaving soon. :sad:

[Guided accordingly]

You lucky A scaler :)

[spanishfly69]

Guided accordingly, He is not lucky. He signed his contract and you signed yours

[Guided accordingly]

Poor Sod . . . . . .LOL :}

[dubaigong]

Guided accordingly,

It is not a question of being pro or against... := and don't know what the HGS has to do here ? :confused:
The thing is that it is possible for a human being with a brain ( maybe without balls as you seem to think ) to agree with something and to disagree with something else...;)
So I fully agree with The Prophet of the Truth about the insurances , pay scales and rostering issues :ok: BUT I don't agree when somebody says that everybody is leaving and nobody is joining. :=
There is nothing to do with getting off the fence and growing some....
About growing some , many people are moaning about the KBL and KDH flights BUT who is doing something about it ? :sad:
Show them how to grow some and as you have grown some lead us then...:ok:

[tothepoint]

I can't figure out why you guys continue to argue these points!! its aint changing in the near future.

One wonders why you would join FZ.

DEC - if you have no other job - short term until the market in your homeland picks up (could be sometime).
F/O - for position long term you'd be far better off at EK, especially with a family. OK maybe you join if you failed EK recruitment selection.

The pay won't change but the cost of living in the UAE will increase and therefore making it harder and harder to save a quid!!

FZ should count themselves lucky that more haven't resigned. Better jobs out there thats for sure.

Good luck to those that come. read the pro's and con's. if you decide to come don't whinge about it, just get on with your job and wait for the door to open again and hope it opens sooner than later!!

[Flyer1015]

F/O - for position long term you'd be far better off at EK, especially with a family. OK maybe you join if you failed EK recruitment selection.
Or maybe even with 4000+ jet time, EK doesn't bat an eye at you because that time is in jets under 30 tons. FD requires jet time in 10 tons or above. For FOs, that is another deal-breaker.

[bkjoo1980]

Anybody knows now how long FZ will takes FO to be a Captain? is it getiing longer time to be a captain? Now in my company they say it will probably takes about 3 years to be a captain.
And whats the progress of CTC interview like?? A lot of people getting through? not sure these days...

[BritishGuy]

BBC News - US special forces Afghan helicopter downed 'by Taliban' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14430735)

"The Taliban say they have modified their rocket-propelled grenades to improve their accuracy but that may not be true, our correspondent says".

[tothepoint]

BKJoo1980,

Don't worry about the time to command. I'd be more interested in a job that had good rostering policies, payscales that were even across the board and so on.....

Then the time to command.
Well that is an unanswered question. 8 per month was the target - sadly it seems only about 2/month go through the ridiculous interview, a process that many of the current LHS pilots would not be able to get through. As recruitment for DEC's continues, there maybe a point where a minimum amount of F/O's are accepting jobs vs majority of DEC's accepting jobs, then upgrades will come to a small trickle!! Alot of F/O's ready to come across to the LHS tough but many looking elsewhere.

But as time goes on and bonds are becoming smaller people are seeing the exit signs - then upgrades might continue. Thats is if the F/O's don't start resigning!!

[The Prophet of Truth]

Dear BK1980,

Following the very good explanation "To the Point" has given my guess would be something around two years.

Good luck!

[BurDubaiBob]

BritishGuy - a point well made but seemingly ignored by many.

In spite of supposed 'intelligence', the powers-that-be are regularly unable to foretell or prevent such attacks, which doesn't exactly inspire confidence in their often heard sermon of "Of course it's safe lads" !

And as to their mantra that "Terry Taliban does not posses weapons capable of downing an aircraft"... well that excuse is now looking a bit thin, isn't it ?!

tothepoint & The Prohphet Of Truth - your estimation of 2 years is only correct for those who have already joined!

As I explained here (http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/335052-flight-deck-positions-flydubai-master-thread-merged-47.html#post6548036), unless there are some fundamental changes in the hiring profile, there will soon come a point when those joining in the right hand seat can anticipate to sit there for a lot longer than 2 years and - with the present hiring profile vs aircraft still to be delivered - that particular point for new hire F/O's is only a few months away!

For those contemplating joining FZ in the RHS, might I suggest that you either make very soon or else expect a very long / indefinite wait in the right seat !

[temporarily unsure]

Isn't it a bit strange that it's OK for the pilots not to be covered for going into a war zone when the a/c docs folder has an updated schedule of insurance? Perhaps the lessors take a different view?

[hazy85]

any idea guys about who the cp is, where is he from and what kind of person is he?

[Wellington Bomber]

an american guy who is shortly retiring as he has reached 65 by the name of David Ray

[Miss Aviator]

If I believed in Karma that would be what happened for me. Passed CTC aptitude and group stuff but was let go after the interview. They could at least give you a chance in the sim and then make the final decision... anyway, better that it didn't work out because I am so through with flying in KDH... Now flying in a much better place thank you very much.

Back in 2007 out of only just 5 flights I had made there 4 had incidents:

1- airport unsafe so we hold for 40min (it was under attack again)
2- missile launched at us but missed--ATC asked if we are ok
3- Two US helo's that are there to protect us during our night landings with no lights caused a TCAS RA because the tower said it was ok to turn base (could not see them on TCAS and they have to have all their lights off too)
4- and finally after landing and fueling up the alarm goes off and the airport is under attack...we were told in such cases that we should exit the aircraft and run away from the aircraft and hit the ground for cover A REGULAR WAR ZONE !! So what does the company do after this? Provide us with flack jackets and helmets !!! unbelievable and pointless. The captain made a very good point that if they were to shoot at the aircraft filled to the gills with jet fuel that our running and hitting the ground would not do much as the explosion would engulf us so we stayed in the aircraft. Our situation was laughable and moronic, how silly to be wearing a flack jacket and a helmet inside the aircraft (these were cargo flights BTW).

In previous years all crew were paid danger pay but is more money worth the risk of losing your life ? We weren't getting danger pay and the insurance didn't cover us either and still captains were accepting to fly there -- I was still low time so that was my excuse. What about Best Air that was in the hotel near Kabul airport that got attacked back in 2008 I believe? I heard accounts of the crew walking past the machine gun raked hotel walls and witnessing a couple of dead bodies (none of his crew hurt but the other wing of the hotel demolished) Most crew that were involved in that one quit afterwards.

So if Karma is out there I would like to thank her :ok:

[Miss Aviator]

I just found out about another terrible attack... a little late but better late than never. For all that are considering working in Afghanistan with FlyDubai:

Barack Obama warns 'our work is not done' after Taliban hotel siege - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8606417/Barack-Obama-warns-our-work-is-not-done-after-Taliban-hotel-siege.html)

That Spanish pilot was working for SAGA Airlines at the time but insert any airlines name... makes no difference to the angel of death.

It's real folks... sh*t happens out there so if you do go you have been warned.

Peace, out.

[spanishfly69]

Miss Aviator thank you so much for the information.But please, Remind me again why did you apply and interview for flydubai?

[Guided accordingly]

Spanish,

My guess would be she applied for the same reasons as the rest of us. She was lucky, she didn't join flydubai before she found out that : -

We now fly into war zones.
Personal Insurance is inadequate. ( aircraft cover ok!)
Personal Medical cover is substandard.
Management Lie... period.
Security dept Lie ... period.
Rostering is as bad as it was before aims was introduced.
Unhelpful HR.
Multiple Pay scales for same job.


It could just be enough to put you off ? :hmm:

[spanishfly69]

Guided Accordingly,

I have to agree 100% on what you are saying about FD.

I only think that now days you should to do your diligence before you apply to a job. Miss aviator did interview with CTC; therefore there are no excuses for her or Him not to know what is going on in FD. She most likely even pay her or his travel arrangements for the interview.
So, as a pilot, you look really bad when you get turned down for a job and then you start talking badly about the place.

It is just my humble opinion

Cheers!!!

[roden737]

Just something completely different.....

I received an invitation for the CTC assessment (as you all know , everything payed by me..)

Is there anyone here that knows about the requirements to pass the medical later on in DXB)
The reason for me asking is that I have lenses ( -3 both eyes one of them with a cylinder )
If I would go to a initial JAA medical check I would not pass the class 1 due to my eyes, it would be nice to know if that will be a problem before spending a lot of money.....

Thanks!

[pocho]

Back to the interview and selection process:
Just had an interesting one....some insider CTC was talking about the system of selling some "special" classes to pass the Flydubai pilot selection process.
Anyone had the same info ? I am just posting this strange info I got, but unfortunately I don't have evidence of that.

[Son of the soil]

pocho I am also hearing CTC selling some special course to help people pass the flydubai interview.

[zman]

Hey guys anyone have any scoop on the cheapest way to do the southampton screen?
im coming form the US and what a pain to nonrev into london then bus it to southampton then cab to CTC!

i was told 45 pounds a night at CTC anyone else have any suggestions?

thx

[StuckinFZ]

My suggestion: Apply for another job. A job where they at least cover your cost of travel and accommodation for screening.......

[roden737]

StuckinFZ,

There are simply not a lot of options around.... Maybe they will reconsider when CTC doesn't have to schedule extra dates anymore due to the huge amounts of people coming.

Anybody who has any idea about my medical question for FlyDubai? Simply put are the standards the same for a JAA Class1 initial or recurrent?

Thanks!

[Wizofoz]

My suggestion: Apply for another job. A job where they at least cover your cost of travel and accommodation for screening.......

I've worked for 5 airlines, and the only element of that I EVER recieved was HOTAC in Dubai with EK (After I paid the airfare).

Why would an airline consider you if you can't even be ar5ed to turn up at the interview under you own steam?

[zman]

when you join is the basic salary 17000 plus housing and transport allowance and school?

do they give you a start up kit or cash to furnish a place?

how long is training 2 months?

once out of training what king of cash from flight time can i expect?

Thanks

[SKYWRITER1]

Wizofoz,

maybe because they used to. They paid flights (which they get cheaply from Emirates) and hotac for everyone. Now you have to go to Southampton, which isn't the easiest to get to internationally, and over 3500 miles from Dubai, before having a final interview in DXB.

Considering they are desperate for pilots, all of which will be expat, they dont make it particularly attractive to people who would be possibly giving up a lot, or who are skint because they are out of work.

I work at FZ, and am happy here, but for a company who will soon be short of pilots (according to an official email) they dont do themselves any favours when it comes to attracting people, and I'm not just talking about the selection process!

Zman,

As far as I remember, you get 3500aed for relocation expenses but no set up pack. Training took 4 weeks if rated, then about a week line training. I'm currently flying 80hrs/month, but the yearly average is more like 60/month.

[zman]

thanks for the info do you guys also get employee pass travel on emirates and FZ? my wife would like to go ho,e to EU and like to know if we can use EK ?

thx

[Sqwak7700]

Why would an airline consider you if you can't even be ar5ed to turn up at the interview under you own steam?


Because that interview is half-way around the world for the majority of the candidates that they are looking for.

This isn't popping into the local hamburger joint to apply for a job. This is an airline looking for EXPATRIATES because they do not have a local population of professional pilots to meet their needs. They should FULLY cover those costs as part of doing business.

Then again, by the tone of your post, I'm afraid they are scraping the bottom of the PROFESSIONAL pilot's barrel for stock. As long as there are shady flying schools who will do anything for a buck, there will always be enough licensed individuals more than willing to race to the bottom. :hmm:

[spanishfly69]

SQWAK7700,

Amen!!!! That is the best post I have seen.

[Sqwak7700]

(apart from Kylie Minogues @rse)

Can't really argue much with that.:ok:

But I'm not sure about your "supply and demand" theory. When I applied to green brush-wing airlines, they had a stack of resumes and even though I was in a group of 30 guys or so, I only saw a handful of them later. We all had loads of experience and I had some friends with even more hours than me who didn't even get a bite. Yet I came off the interview making money (I didn't spend all the allowance they paid me while in Hongkers for the 4 days).

So I don't think it is a supply issue. Major airlines will never have a shortage of applicants. That is what regional airlines are for. But the minimums have changed and gone considerably south, and I think that is why they can get away with some of the stunts they are pulling now. Some new guy with a few hundred hours is much more likely to sacrifice if he can get his foot in the door. The airlines know this, and they are very much aware that "you get what you pay for".

I just wish someone would be held accountable when everybody starts asking "how could they do that?" after someone augers one in good. Then all these HR people scurry off to the rocks they crawled out from and look for others to take the blame. Funny how their HR skills don't seem to work to isolate the problem then. :hmm:

[Dio]

Just heard that new upgrades will be bonded for a further 3 years!! This is due to a recent upgrade resigning after 3 months!!

[skysod]

To be honest, was surprised this wasn't already in force........it was at my previous airline!

[dubaigong]

At least this time , don't blame the company but the first officer who was smart and selfish enough to take the upgrade and then resign...

[zman]

the apt test is all the fly joystick coardination switch freq type test right?
also the written portion has basic type quest with some math?

thanks

[tothepoint]

Dubaigong,

"At least this time, don't blame the company but the first officer who was smart and selfish enough to take the upgrade and then resign..."

Maybe its one getting a little back from being bonded in the first place as a type rated joiner. Disrespect and bullying of employees will result in similar actions.

Treating employees with respect for the professional jobs they undertake will result in loyalty and respect and bonds would not have to exist!!!

Unfortunately that is the minority of workplaces these days, so expect more of the same.

[roden737]

Zman,

There used to be a lot of info in a different thread (interview, jobs&sponsorship)
Unfortunately most of that is gone..
Would be nice if a few people would post their recent experience in detail.

[Jeffdh17]

See thread labeled: FlyDubai Interview Preparation. :}

[dubaigong]

Tothepoint,

I respect your view BUT I don't agree with you.
I don't understand why being bonded when joining ( which , by the way was well known to everybody before signing the contract ) can be seen as a good reason to accept as a fair behaviour the resignation of a first officer 2 months after being upgraded to the left seat ?

On top of that , even the company does not respect you as you think you should be , does it mean that you have to act the same way ?

I am maybe old fashioned but that's not the way I have being raised and educated.
If you want to be treated as professional you should act as a professional...

[Wizofoz]

dugong,

It's simple business. If you have a problem keeping qualified staff, offer incentives for them to stay.

Training an employee to do a job required for your business is not doing them a favour, it is what you need to do to stay in business. That employee does not then owe you anything.

Do you think the managers making these decisions are bonded into their jobs, or get paid sufficiently to not want to leave?

[tothepoint]

gong,

I don't disagree with your principals and ethics. just calling it as it is.
A place that is finding it hard to recruit crew will continue to do so unless the small items, such as pay, bonding and other such things mentioned are fixed to entice professionals to join.

Without a representative body to deal with these issues, such actions taken (being unprofessional), cast light on certain areas.

The reaction to further bond (if that is true) an upgrade candidate as a result of the resignation gives you an insight, react now think later method, which is detrimental to the encouragement of good crew applying for an upgrade.

Its a 2 way street.

[tdk90]

What is the maximum consecutive days off per month one could expect as a new hire...also does anyone commute back to Europe?

Thanks

[three eighty]

also does anyone commute back to Europe?


It's a low cost airline, I somehow doubt there will be much time for commuting

[dubaigong]

Forget about commuting for the time being , it is not a commuting contract that you have on offer here.
For the time being you can expect between 1 and 3 ( if you are very lucky ) days off in a row maximum.
Then if you manage to swap some of your flights with days off from fellow pilots , then you will be able to increase this number and try to get home for a few days...

[iranair]

John Dooley is the F@cker i ran away from and joined FZ for .. and now it seems like he is following me here.. i guess i've just started to regret leaving RYR in the first place.. i have not seen any of the things ive been promised by this company.. i thought the HR dept in RYR was bad , boy was i in for a treat.. guys if you have the hours then join EK... at the time i didnt so now im stuck here and bonded for 3years.....

[BritishGuy]

Errrrr........ Did I miss something here? Is this a confirmation that John Dooley has joined FlyDubai and is the new Chief Pilot?

[Miss Aviator]

Well, yes, my bad for not looking at every single airport they fly into. I just assumed that hardly anyone flies there and made an a%% out of u and me. tsk tsk tsk.

I was not bad-mouthing the establishment, I was just stating a fact, and I will say it again... let it be known that Afghanistan can be very dangerous and also you will not be covered under the current life insurance policy when you fly there.

Regards,
Miss A.

[iranair]

John Dooley isn't the new chief pilot,, he is not a pilot full stop, he is taking up a role in the management part of FZ. i really think this airline is going to be the new RYR of the middle east. btw the guy you are thinking of is Gerry Conway ! and yes he is also coming .

[Panama]

Iranair, could you clarify what you mean when you state "I have not seen any of the things I've been promised by this company".
What is it exactly that they have not come thru on?
I ask because I am trying to get the interview invitation to CTC and want to know if Fly Dubai is not respecting what was advertised on their job posting.

[dubaigong]

Panama ,

I think you have misunderstood Iranair's comment , He was talking about Ryanair and not Flydubai...

[iranair]

no mate .. both companies are just as bad !

[dubaigong]

Sorry I was wrong then...

But now I have to disagree totally with you Iranair.

Or you don't know Ryanair or you have forgotten how it was ?

In Ryanair a first officer going for an upgrade has to pay 4500 Euros before starting his training.
Ryanair tells you where you training will take place and it is your problem to go there , find an accommodation and pay for it , the same for your flight training anywhere in Europe ( not taking into account where you live ) and then when finally you get on the left seat , you are paid 90 % of a full captain salary...
That's not the case here....
We get paid 4 hours sector pay when we go to the simulator , we get a free uniform even the shoes and cleaning is free for your uniform if you want to use the facility.
When you get personnel problem ( somebody sick , a death etc ... ) in your family at your home country you have no problem to get your duty removed and to go back home.
Do you know that recently a first officer in Ryanair committed suicide because Ryanair could not care at all about his personnel problems and did not allow him time to sort it out ( he was a father , and now is son is an orphan.... )

I could continue like this for ages , so please Iranair whoever you are don't talk about things that you don't know.

Comparing Ryanair with Flydubai is like comparing Hitler with the Dalai Lama....

If you hate that company so much , just go somewhere else but don't mislead the one who may be interested in joining Flydubai.

[Guided accordingly]

Theyre both the same, separated by about 5 years. FZ will be the same when its had as much experience of pi$$ing people off as RYR.

Whats going on in rostering ? Have they lost it ? And what, no vomit inducing email congratulating early release of capts rosters ?

Why the single days off and replacing standbys with AVBL ?
(AVBL = 24 hour on stby now it appears)

Not convinced AIMS has actually improved our lot that much. :ooh:

[iranair]

WOW dubaigong talking against FZ with u is like saying anything bad about the bible in the state of alabama ...yes I was at RYR for a real long time , yes i'm familiar with all the problems, just like everyone else who started out in RYR i was shipped to a base in the middle of nowhere and i was expected to find my own ACC and way around the city without any help from the company ,, so i don't need you to teach or remind me of anything i experienced in RYR,
i was targeting the people behind the scenes both in RYR and FZ, i've had people calling me from the rostering in FZ on my off days and was sort of forced to work a particular day off or i had to face the consequences . i can also go on .
i agree with our colleague above in terms of FZ being 5years behind RYR.
u mention the poor chap who committed suicide in RYR and the cause of the whole problem was no other but John Dooley, he refused that person any sort of time off even though he was in the worst possible situation in his life. and guess what genius the same John Dooely is now coming to FZ. same goes for Gerry Conway who is only approachable when he needs something from you, other than that u he'll tell u to F off and not bother him .
And as far as your behavior goes.. mate u need to clean up ur act, saying ''Whoever you are '' well im just another Pilot who made a transition to FZ to get treated better . and i have been disappointed at times, and i'm also seeing the old RYR traits coming into play here at FZ .you are telling me to leave if i hate it so much? ok, pay off my bond and i will... mate ur manners need reconsidering coz frankly the way u speak to people from the safety of your room is appalling . Grow up mate . :ok:

[Mat Finish]

and guess what genius the same John Dooely is now coming to FZ. There goes your daily free bottle of water.

Mat Finish
never a shiny moment..

[dubaigong]

I will grow up with your help , I guess...

I was in the chief pilot meeting a few days ago and just to show that not all the pilots in Flydubai agree with your comment I will tell you what have been said.

Two pilots were there and they have suggested to the chief pilot to set up "road shows" in Dublin and other European cities to be able to tell to the Ryanair pilots what Flydubai and Dubai really are as , acording to them , what was said on some website ( PPRUNE ) was misleading and if they had the opportunity to talk with them they are sure that they will be more than happy to join Flydubai...

So I respect your view BUT this is far from being the reality TODAY in Flydubai.

What it will be in 5 years , you don't know and neither do I...

Concerning the 2 ex-Ryanair persons joining Flydubai , this is going on for at least 2 months and as far I can see they are not here... So until they are part of the company and start to damage our actual conditions , this is just speculation.

I am also very sorry to hear that the bond is what is stopping you from leaving , I have never been stopped by a bond when my feeling about my company has been as bad as yours about Flydubai.
If your financial situation is so critical that you can not afford to pay back your bond to get away from hell , I am sad for you and will be more than happy to organized a fund raising to help you mate...

[iranair]

Dubaigong u clearly have issues which needs to be addressed. reason that no one had the guts to stand up and say anything is due to the fact that no Unions are allowed to cover these guys back side .
and no my financial situation is not in a spiral dive , i just don't get why i have to give a company money to leave , when i was type rated to begin with . i knew that from the start before joining but what i didnt know was the way people in the HR and crew control treat people in this company .
it's funny how u remind me of those kids back in primary school.. always snitching , always back bitting behind everyones back . wow i do feel sorry for you.
i'm sorry to say this but i hope you never make it to the left seat . and in the right company u never will .
i wont reply to anymore of ur stupid posts since u are so anal about FZ and have no moral understanding of what others are talking about . If i didn't know any better i'd say FZ pays you commission for every pilot you keep in this company !

[Dio]

Can someone please tell all of us who this John Dooley fella is? What positon he holds in RYR and why does iranair fear/hate him so much?

[tothepoint]

Dubaigong,
Don't be so patronizing.
The place has low crew moral, that is reflected everyday on the flight deck. Standard whinging about conditions that aren't hard to fix.
There are heaps of great folks at flydubai and it could be a super job, as most thought when they joined. Southwest of the middle east springs to mind, hardly the case.
Are core issues addressed at pilot meetings or do attendees not want to speak up about the core issues that need to addressed due being singled out for doing so.
Take a chill pill and enjoy your job here, don't take it personally. If someone moved half way across the world with kids and family and FZ is not living up to their expectations they are within their right to express concern at the direction and to look for work elsewhere.
I would be great if factual information is posted to enable others to form an opinion. But then it's a rumor network.

[dubaigong]

Of course they have the right to express their concerns and to look for work
elsewhere...I have never denied that !

Do they have the right to mislead the people looking for information to make up their mind ? I don't think so.

And I repeat it , saying that Flydubai is as bad as Ryanair is not true at all FOR THE TIME BEING

Do I accept that things are far from being perfect here YES
Do I agree with the fact that some promises have not been delivered YES
Do I agree that the rostering system with the standby and now the available days should be improved YES
Do I agree that there is a lack of true communication from a part of the management YES

But if you take into account that no union exist at all in this country and you have a factual look to our conditions and compare it to the one in Ryanair , you can not come to the conclusion that we are as bad as Ryanair.

[zerotohero]

dubiagong

you are also very wrong my friend

No F/O has to shell out 4500Euro to begin a command training, you are however bonded for that amount for 12months after the upgrade to make sure you don't jump ship right away but no cash is ever asked for

the 90% thing of for Ryanair contract F/O's upgrading not Brookfield ones which you will find 99% of new upgrades are these days so its just the step up in pay on your current contract to captain pay (changes there soon though)

As for where you do the training, yes there are only certain base's for this, STN BGY and maybe HHN? bear in mind here that this is a huge company with 44+ bases now and the trainers have to be somewhere, they cant all be in your base so yes you will have to travel most likely, if they were all in one base say Dubai then yea no moving, look outside the sandpit there my friend, your argument is massively one sided and bias

[zman]

Anyone doing the screen on the 30th?

what HR questions do you get asked?

while in training the basic 17000 is paid is there anything else?
do you stay at a hotel or are you given the allowance to find a place ?

[sondbird101]

Been here for 5 months. Not my first rodeo in the middle east. Best to show up do your duty collect a paycheck and enjoy your time off. So far has worked out for me. As for the two clowns from Ryan Air no need to worry until its time to worry.

[skysod]

Just to even things up a little.........the vast majority of people I fly with seem to be very happy here (albeit with reservations about some of our destinations) but of course most of them can't be bothered posting on here........they're too busy enjoying life!:):)

[Tolerant Dubai]

Ha ha, you’re flying with a different airline to me my friend! If you actually do fly at all?

Dream on Dreamer :D

[skysod]

Hi TD, as that was your first post on pprune, may I suggest that If anyone's credibility is in doubt, it's more likely to be yours!

[Tolerant Dubai]

Sorry, I apologise, I didn’t realise things were based on number of posts recorded against your name...... or names.

The fact of the matter is, multiple posts or not, the people I fly with don’t share your 'happy clappy' point of view. That my friend is a fact.

Lets wait and see what the next six months have to offer and then we can reconvene on this topic if you like?

[Guided accordingly]

Mr Skysod... Ive been thinking.

You might be a captain, possibly old school, and recently upgraded??
Either way you MIGHT be flying with mainly new f/os ??

Recent recruits have very different expectations to those of two years ago.
That fact in itself is changing the dynamic, and face of fly dubai

Question ?

During the next two years will terms and conditions at fly dubai ...

1..Improve ? :O
2..deteriorate ? :sad:
3..Remain the same ?:*



(Question directed at all, except maybe D'gong who is clearly on the shisha) :8

[FZckntkawrap]

It will be a mixed bag. Some areas will improve, others will stay the same, and a few things will get worse.

The pay will not change more than 3% in a given year, and the gap between A and B will not go away until the last A scaler has left the company. Allowances for the overnights will be very little, if any, as I expect them to say that our housing and transportation allowance covers it already :}

Delays will grow, mainly from connecting passengers and not having the facilities to handle them. Terminal 2 is way behind schedule with regards to the grand expansion plan. Also just staffing the airline with enough crew will be problematic if the plan to rebond FOs once upgraded actually comes to fruition. Who will come to flydubai to sit as an FO for three years and then be forced to sign another bond for 3 more years?

However, the staff parties will continue to be excellent and who isn't impressed with the new crew food :}

good luck to us all, the next 3-6 months will be very telling of the companies intent for the future of flydubai

[skysod]

Hi GA, their could be some truth in what you say.
However, I just like to post on here now and again if I think the comments are overly negative just to give (IMHO of course) a more balanced view of what life working for FD is really like.
As I have already said in previous posts, I'm happy to be here and from the numerous conversations with colleauges on the flight deck I know that many others (but by no means all) feel the same.:)

[Tolerant Dubai]

Skysod,

Sorry, don’t mean to pick on you..... it’s not personal. However, I wonder just how much you actually fly. The feelings of these so called colleagues of yours are not in line with the mainstream pilots here at Flydubai. As such, your opinion is not really balancing things at all.

Most people who I fly with do not share your (or your colleagues) point of view. In reality the picture is a little bleaker I’m afraid, just read the posts on this site.

If I had another chance to make the choice between FD or Emirates..... FD wouldn’t even come close.

I am happy for you, as you appear to be content at FZ, you’re part of an elite group.

[skysod]

No worries TD, evryone's entitled to their own opimion on here!
Bye the way, did 76 hours in July, 75 in August.

[Alaska737]

Can anyone confirm this is true? How can they justify the cost of 3 sim sessions and line training that costs just 2000dhs extra for a trainer for a month! You still fly normal line flights and pay your own housing! I would rather pay to be trained than jump through hoops, this was certainly not the agreement when I joined!

[dubaigong]

Alaska 737,

It is true , it was not in the agreement when you have joined BUT they did not expect that a first officer upgraded to the captain position ( with no cost or bond ) would be such a gentlemen that he resigned around 3 months later...
It is not fair for the first officers following and looking for an upgrade but what can they do to avoid other one to leave after being upgraded ?
Also , if you were the owner of the company , what would be your reaction ?

[Tolerant Dubai]

Your comments always make me laugh! If a guy wants to leave the company, what’s it to you? Good on him!

This guy played the game, got his command...... didn’t want to stay, and has resigned. Get over it! More to follow, I’m sure.

This is purely business. When a company blocks movement to Emirates and Etihad, and is now about to bond new captains, it’s beginning to smell like acts of desperation. Why not try and resolve the issues causing people to leave in the first place?

You always seem to take these thing personally, don’t! Lifes too short :ok:

[tothepoint]

Dubaigong,
Many previous posts by you suggest that if one person is unhappy and contributes on this website with negative information then they should just resign, find a new job.....

Maybe the upgraded f/o took your advice. :D

If I was the owner or the management it probably wouldn't have happened in the first place. Small problems to fix = happy staff inc pilots, engineers, cabin crew and office staff.
Terms and conditions have changed and don't suit some people especially as the cost of living in Dubai increases. I don't think he'll be the only one.

[dubaigong]

Tothepoint,

Again you have your opinion and I respect it but I have mine and you also have to respect it...

I surely said that if people were not happy they should leave BUT I didn't say that they should do it in a way that they will make the life of those staying worse because of the way they leave...And I have never said that people contributing with negative comments about the company should leave !!!
This is YOUR interpretation. I have made negative comments and still do about the company but I try not to lie or give false information.

If this first officer was so unhappy to decide to leave don't tell me that he just realized it 3 months after his upgrade to the captain position...

And once again my view is that it is not because the management does not behave properly that we should act the same way...

Believe me or not , I am not happy with what is going on and I am also looking for another job BUT in the meantime I try to see if there is a way to change things and to improve the situation...

Don't forget also that if the conditions here does not meet your wishes you have to realize that for thousands of pilots coming from other countries than ours these conditions are great....

[dubaigong]

Tolerant Dubai,

Don't worry your comments also make me laugh... I would like to see how you would react if this was your company and that it was your money invested in it...

It's easy to say that he has played the game , didn't like it and just left... He was here for a specific goal has reached it and left without thinking of the others... It's another option...

Don't worry I don't take it personally BUT I am just acting like you , if you see me saying something you don't agree with you come right away with a comment about it...
I do exactly the same but with only one goal which is to balance the facts that only negative comments are made not the positive one...

[StuckinFZ]

Dubaigoing, how do you know he did not have personal reasons to leave? How can you draw the conclusion that he is an unprofessional person etc.......... I think it is unacceptable that all the other FO's upgrading should have to "pay" for him leaving...... He might have had reasons to leave that we don't know.

Firefighting management methods as they are using in FZ will never make for a good work place, fire PREVENTION should be the way to go. Like many people are saying. Fighting for a better work place, being not happy to be on 24 hr, stby (AVLB) etc does not mean that you should pack you bag and leave. Pilots working conditions over the last 10 years have deteriorated dramatically globally, and I am sorry to say, it is due to people like you, willing to accept things, without putting up a fight.

[dubaigong]

StuckinFZ,

Please tell me where I have said that this first officer was an unprofessional person ???
It seems to be a disease on this website to interpret what has been said by others...
About the personal reasons to leave that's usually the explanation given to the management by most of the pilots leaving to stay in good relationship ( in aviation we never know , it is a small world )
But when outside the company and in front of a drink that's not exactly what have been told by most of them and I was there... So maybe they lied in the pub...

Also before moaning about the available day and spreading again wrong information to everybody , do your homework.
The AVLB day is NOT a 24 hours standby ( read your part A section 7 it is not legal to be on standby for 24 hours ) , 48 hours before that day you will receive a notice from crew control changing that day for a duty or will remove and become a day off.
I have had it and I have confirmed with crew control the status of this available day.

Cheers mate

[Voodoo 3]

I believe that the recently upgraded f/o who resigned did so because he was on furlough with his former carrier and was recalled with it not being deferrable. In other words if you don't come back now you will loose your position.

Maybe he was in a difficult position having just been upgraded maybe not, I don't know.

I do stand to be corrected if this info (second hand) is not true however.

V3

[Tolerant Dubai]

Dubaigong,

"If you want to be treated as professional you should act as a professional...”

This is what you wrote about the recently resigned and recently upgraded Captain. It seems to me that you did indeed suggest he was unprofessional, and therefore, StuckinFZ was correct in his statement.

Nothing wrong in having a difference of opinion my friend, but your posts have nothing constructive to offer in return, and in addition, they are now becoming more of a rant than anything else.

Cheer up my friend :)

[dubaigong]

We are more than 200 pilots now and since this thread started how many different people have posted here ?
So according to me all the negative comments does not reflect the view of the 200 + pilots flying in the company or at least they don't say it here...

About bringing something constructive... , don't tell me than my posts are worse than all the negative one !

I , at least try to see some of the positive side of the company to balance the negative view of the others... for me it is a little bit constructive...

[Guided accordingly]

FZ are still looking for a replacement Chief Pilot , Have you got your application in Gong?

[dubaigong]

Dear Guided accordingly,

The answer is NO... you don't have to be worried...

But the people who think that changing the chief pilot will bring big changes in the company will most probably be very disappointed.

My guess

[dubaigong]

VERY GOOD NEWS for all the first officers , they have finally decided NOT to bond the first officers for the command upgrade until further notice....

So you see that some positive things also happen here :ok::ok:

[Alaska737]

Excellent news dubaigong. Not doing the bond has actually restored my trust in what is said, and that trust to me is an importatnt reason for me to stay.

[tdk90]

Can someone post a link that shows current T&Cs, pay etc.?

Is there a housing allowance or company accommodation like EK?

Thanks

[dubaigong]

tdk90,

Just go on their website flydubai (http://www.flydubai.com) , work with us section and then pilots and you will have the answer to your question...

[tdk90]

Thanks, I did look at that already, so that is accurate? No mention of housing allowance of company accommodation then..I'd be bringing my family so was hoping they'd offer a similar deal to EK.

What's the difference between the A and B scale I've read on here about?

Thanks

[Tolerant Dubai]

Dubaigong,

Very happy for you! :D

No need for us to worry anymore........ :ugh:

Surely this is actually more the case of something foolish that has not been introduced, rather than a good thing that has happened?

With this type of positive spin you should consider a job in management, your talents are wasted on here. :O

[StuckinFZ]

I see you chose not to answer the comment from another poster on you not calling the newly upgraded not professional. You are quick to point out other peoples errors, but not so quick to admit your own. Weak quality in a commander! Also, there is NOTHING in our manuals guiding us in the use of the AVBL days, so if this is "up to crewing" it will in effect turn into a 24 hour stby. Even if you dont call it such. My available was changed much less that 48 hours before by the way.

[dubaigong]

Dear StuckinFZ and Tolerant Dubai ,

I flew today with a captain who told me that he decided to join Flydubai because all the pilots he knew in the company told him that it was a good company to join despite the fact that is was not perfect...
So I am sure that you will find something to say against that like " you should join the management" etc...
But I had a great day flying with a happy captain who will try to convince some of his friend to join...
I am sure you will like to hear that...

Cheers mate :ok::ok:

[Tolerant Dubai]

Great news!

Between you two, you may just have sorted out the company's recruitment problems!

Great job. :D

"Every night at home at Flydubai will not be true anymore ...:\ , from October we are starting lay over at Dhaka and Chittagong
Who knows what will be next...:mad:"

This is what you wrote on another thread.....Now if I had wrote that, you would have burst into tears :ugh:

[dubaigong]

You will never make me burst in tears , you always make me laugh... :ok:

And about what I wrote in another thread , this just a fact that I have pointed out to somebody thinking about joining EK or FZ saying that in Flydubai he will not be home anymore every night because another poster said that he will be...
So , as you can see ( despite the fact that you see me as a management fan ) I try to always give the correct information to avoid having people joining the company without knowing how it really is.

At the end of the day what is important is that you enjoy your life...and that I enjoy mine...

[StuckinFZ]

To all of those that think of joining FZ...... Get a Bomb- (Kandahar, Duck and Dive......) and Mosquito Repellent (Dhaka and Chittagong)- spray before joining......

What glorious layovers.... Can't wait......

Again you will not answer direct challenge dubaigoing.....

As for you SCREAM of NO bonding for command upgrades, according to CP letter as of yesterday nothing is decided, so stop throwing lies around, you can not know if there will be a bond or not. Unless you are already management, or in cohorts with someone upstairs leaking you information in return from you ratting out colleagues of course...............

[BOMBER X]

Hello Gentlemen,
I have applied in FlyDubai as non-type-rated non-jet F/O and so far I have just received an automatic reply. Does someone has any idea about how much chance my application can lead to be called for assessment in regards to the requirements and the current needs. Also could someone give info regarding the CTC assessment in UK and final stage in Dubai?

I would highly appreciate any answer-you can PM me too.
Thanks for your lights!

Bomber X;)

[Guided accordingly]

It gets better... look forward to more DFS afghan routes, esp when the troups pull out. Fending off malaria during the bangladesh layovers may be the safer option. :sad:

Truck bomb wounds 77 foreign troops in Afghanistan | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/09/11/uk-afghanistan-blast-idUKTRE78A12820110911)

[Voodoo 3]

GA,

Don't forget AIMS is your friend because if you don't want your nightstops then there will be plenty of pilots who will.

[Sindbad]

A few queries on FlyDubai if anyone can assist.
Remuneration :
Is there any kind of annual increment?
Do you lose out on all the Flying allowance when on annual leave or is there a minimum paid?
Accommodation:
Is the housing allowance paid in full no matter what your actual rent is? Or paid against an invoice from the landlord?
Is living in Sharjah convenient? And how is the standard and rents compared to DXB?
Technical:
Is FZ a CAT II or CAT III airline? Are the aircrafts HUD equipped ?
Are the Engines 24, 26 or 27K?
Thanks for your help.

[torallin]

No annual increment, small pay-rise last year, but this will not benefit new hires. Airline have commented that a new pay-rise will only come once airline is profitable.

Flight pay is BLOCK hours, and only paid when you fly, no flight no flightpay.
Housing is paid in full no matter where and how you live. Sharjah is cheaper but nicer areas in Dubai cost just a little more. Look in Downtown, Business Bay and Mirdif. Dubizzle.com is a good place to look to get an idea.

Airline is trying to get CAT II, HUD, still pending approval, training have started.
Aircraft is mixed 26 and 27K.

[fly2AK]

It has been ages since I have been on here. Anyways, for Sinbad

A few queries on FlyDubai if anyone can assist.
Remuneration :
Is there any kind of annual increment? NO, Not at this time
Do you lose out on all the Flying allowance when on annual leave or is there a minimum paid? You will loose out on all your Flying allowance while on Leave. Gone the whole month 0 Flight pay.
Accommodation:
Is the housing allowance paid in full no matter what your actual rent is? Or paid against an invoice from the landlord? You get your full allowance, so live as good as you want or as frugal.
Is living in Sharjah convenient? And how is the standard and rents compared to DXB? From what I know the rent is cheaper but the standard of living is below Dubai. Most that live in Sharjah come to Dubai for entertainment.
Technical:
Is FZ a CAT II or CAT III airline? Are the aircrafts HUD equipped ?
Are the Engines 24, 26 or 27K? 26k & 27K engines, HUD Equipped, but not Cat II or III yet but it is coming.
Thanks for your help.

[Saint-Exupery]

Gents, fly2AK, torallin

Would you mind to confirm on the following:
How much is the fix income, without any extras, just net cash?

I just come across the "projected monthly total". Need to know the individual numbers. On what kind of productivity is "approximately AED51800 per month" based on?
What is the relation bw. fixed and duty pay? How much housing allowance will be given?

Thanks for lightning me up on this!

PS: What kind of deals are offered to trainers, if any?

[BritishGuy]

No offence Saint-Exupery, but 95% of the stuff you've just asked is stated on the FlyDubai wesbite and has also been stated in a post above.

You get your basic money. You get the car allowance. You get the housing allowance. EVERY MONTH. RAIN OR SHINE. Only the flight pay is the variable.

It's ALL on the FD website.

[Diz]

Is there a chance the screening process be done in DXB instead of in CTC UK?.. They gave me dates to choose but it's in UK, a little bit too far and time /£ consuming...

Heard rumours FZ will fly to KUL via CMB...any truth?

[BritishGuy]

BBC News - Afghan gunfight: Kabul police battle insurgents (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14897358)

This type of news from KBL should have folks thinking........

[Saint-Exupery]

BritishGuy,

thank you for answering. I just visited FD website again, but I can't find the answers to my q's.

I just wonder how much the basic pay would be, assuming that the 51800 is the overall total incl. basically everything.

Could you eventually break it up into basic salary, flight pay, housing etc.?

Alternatively, pls post the link to those info.

(Can't find all of this on Pilots - work with us - flydubai (http://www.flydubai.com/english/work-with-us/pilots.aspx))

PS: Seen the article about the latest gunfight in KBL on CNN.... not the most welcoming destination!

[Guided accordingly]

British Guy,

Theres a trend developing over there. It appears KBL is more out of control than KDH.

Do you know if all the flights operated ?

[BritishGuy]

Saint-Exupery, I just had a look at the FD website again, and it seems that they've taken off how they 'break up' the 51000 AED. Sorry for assuming it was still on there. 51000AED is the assumed Captain salary based upon 80 hours flown. I cannot remember the break up of the 51000 - am sorry. All I can say is that the reason the basic is small is so that the 'UAE gratuity payment - end of service payment' isn't all that big. It's calculated upon the final basic salary. Sorry I can't help much more on that front. I'm sure someone else will chime in.

It does seem that recently things in Afghanistan are getting worse and worse by the day. What to say.

[The Prophet of Truth]

basic: 23600 (not good enough)
transport: 2300 (not good enough)
housing: 14000 (enough)

Total: 39900 without flight pay. In the months with annual leaves is quite hard to save any $$$.

The flight pay is 150 per block hour. We do not fly 80 hours as promised.
You can count with 65 block what will give you 50.000 DHs monthly (at least 10% less than any other airline in the region).

FZ= hard work + low pay

Best regards

[ManaAdaSystem]

You are complaing about not enough block hours, then you complain you work too hard?

[Sunrig]

Never done four to six short sectors giving you some five blockhours and maybe up to 12 dutyhours?

[ManaAdaSystem]

Yes, I've done that, and I still do. It's part of the job, same as long, 5 hours+ sectors.

It can't be that many 6 sector days in FZ.

[Flyer1015]

From the flyDubai website:

Remuneration (projected monthly total)
Captains - approximately AED 51,800 per month
First Officers - approximately AED 38,700 per month

Do these projected monthly totals include the flight duty pay of 150 Dirhams per block hour? Assuming a 70 block hour month, that's another 10,500 Dirhams to add to the figures above.

Or is that already included?

[Voodoo 3]

The figures quoted are including flying duty pay based on I think 80 hours per month. So that is your take home pay. Work more or less than that and then adjust accordingly. Captains 150/hour, F/O's 100/hour.

[The Prophet of Truth]

This amount is assuming 80 hours already. If you fly 70 as you said the salary will be less........lets say 50300. This is a good figure to work with (65 to 75 hs month). There is no minimum pay, if you are sick or in an leave and do not fly any hours in the current month than your salary is 39900 only. We do not work many hours but we fly to very bad places and at least half of your flying time will be in the middle of the night. There is no extra pay for night flights.

[Guided accordingly]

indeed all excellent, providing you don't get shot down in the course of duty :hmm: (management or RPG's.. )

[RandyBMC]

As was stated, the following are the pay totals for a "D" scale Captain (which is what any new DEC or upgrade will receive):

Basic: 23500AED
House Rent Allowance: 14000AED
Transport allowance: 2300AED
Flight pay: 150AED per block hour (as stated above, figure 70 hours a month)

It is important to remember that you will need your housing up front to pay the landlord, as Dubai works on a 6 month in advance rent set up ("two checks" for instance - it is sometimes possible to find more checks for payment, perhaps quarterly, but the rent is usually higher for such an arrangement). The company will forward you this amount up front up to half of your total allowance (84000AED for a D scale Captain) and withdraw the total housing allowance amount from your pay check every month until the housing "loan" is paid. You can do this every six months.

It does mean that your take home will not include this amount.

Education allowance is 35000AED for primary schooling and 55000AED for secondary. This sometimes is enough and sometimes isn't, depending on the school. Also, all benefits are only applicable for up to three children only.

There is no sick pay - you lose any pay for that particular trip you call in sick for. You do have a limited number of sick hours you may use, however.

When on leave, you get BASIC salary only - no flight pay. You of course continue to receive your housing and transport allowance, as well as education allowance. That means you must figure in 42 days without pay a year - or about a month and a half. You can NOT sell back your leave - it must be taken.

As was said above, end of service benefit is based on BASIC salary only, which is your current pay at the time of leaving. Another reason a lot of our pay comes from flight time as it reduces the cost to flydubai on someone leaving the company.

Finally, there are the bonds, required of both typed and non-typed pilots. Don't forget to factor these in as they will be there if you decide to leave before they expire.

These are all numbers, again, for D-scale Captains. There are four scales of pay for Captains and three for FOs and this time, which are not necessarily tied to seniority, but are more random. All new joiners will be on the D-scale for Captain and the C-scale for FO (the lowest for both seats) which only makes sense.

I hope that helps clear up some of the questions above. Feel free to ask any others for clarification.

Randy

[nserranop]

Thanks for your post about the pay and pilot scales.What amount of tickets to go home for a family living in USA or in Southamerica? Let's say , we take 2 times 21 days vacation a year. Do you have Zed tickets, and emirates tickets?
Thanks
nelson S.

[Guided accordingly]

Unfortunately staff travel is not a priority.

No Zed fares, although, to be fair I hear this is being looked into, but don't expect a quick result.

Discounted fares available on FZ flights. Destinations and flight times not always suited to vacations. (nuff said!)

ID90 concession with Emirates, but, with a twist ! Lowest priority ID 90 tickets. (ie you and family bumped off before the cleaner!) Insane booking system that requires hr approval, multiple e mails and unnecessary driving around dubai. No access to load info so standbys very much a gamble. (It helps to have friend in Ek with access to booking sys)

Some good experiences had by single guy /girl travellers, but for groups/families, its not very practical. EK flights are heavily booked, and there are plenty of stories of guys getting stuck down route for days, then paying full price ( some with other airlines!) to get back for duty.

A stress free vacation it does not make !

[Immigrant]

Congratulations with new, nice destinations :ok:

How those flights to Ukraine, No overnights?? :rolleyes:

[TRUECRUZ]

Hey does anyone know who the frontrunners for the new Flydubai Chief Pilot Post are?
:rolleyes:
I hear it is down to an over zealous Irish Man and a tall American. Hear they are both internal. Anyone any news?

[nserranop]

So, in the T&C don't you have once a year, a flight ticket to go home for every member of the family?
What about , bidding for a specific flight or a free day?
One final question.If you have the opportunity to join Qatar or FZ, considering ,quality of life,city,company management,etc etc,what would you choose?
Thanks.
NS

[Immigrant]

So guys any info fore flights to Ukraine, do you have overnights??

[macca32springer]

Is it just me, or have we done away with AIMS and returned to manual rosters?

It appears that our rosters now have to reflect those of HR...... i.e. HR don’t get any more than 2 days off in a row, so why should pilots....

Anyone else wish to share their thoughts? Apart from Dubaigong!

[prmpilot]

flydubai CTC assessment

The computer test: Pilapt software-Aptitude Package

Pilot computer test software: pilot aptitude test, job application, pilot recruitment. (http://www.cockpitweb.com/pilottest.html)

Modules
*Flight Director: (the cross-hairs kind) with joystick. Keep it centered pitch and bank for 90 sec., 3 drills. Your score will be shown at the end of each run. They look for improvement.

* Concentration/Color Grid: A grid is shown with shapes of different color appearing for a few seconds at a time. Multiple shapes appear at the same time across the grid. The top of the grid contains a bar with different colors for each row, the side of the grid has the shape outline. When a shape that appears matches both the color and outline of the row which it appears in, you have to mouse-click on the shape before it disappears. The side screen will show the number of correct hits and also the number of misses.

*Puppet: There is a figure of a guy shown standing in different positions. He is holding a square in one hand, and a circle in the other. There is audio that makes commands, for example “ Positive right circle”. This is asking you identify which figure, or figures are holding a circle in the right hand. Or “negative left square”, meaning which figure or figures are NOT holding a square in the left hand. There may be more than one or none of the figures that are correct. You have to mouse-click the correct number (0-3 at the bottom of the screen), of figures that display the correct answer.

*Flight through squares: You use the joystick to navigate through a stream of square boxes that require you to make small pitch and bank changes to keep the airplane (represented by a small cross), in the center of the boxes as you fly through them. Fairly simple. Your score should improve after each 60 second run, 3 runs total.

*Flight Director Plus: 3 modules.
1st run is the same as the first flight director joystick drill.
2nd run they add in a shape on the left with a number in the center. While flying the cross hairs, you have to listen for the audio which will tell you for example “red triangle 3”. This means look for the red triangle with a no. 3 in the center of it to appear on the left. Once you see it, you have to hit the red button and then the no.3 on the keypad to confirm. There are also yellow and green buttons for the different commands.
3rd run the give you the first two together PLUS the audio counts down a number sequence. You have hit the trigger when the audio sequence is wrong. For example the audio says ‘899, 894, 889”. This means that the sequence is counting down by 5. When you hear the sequence fall out of order, for example 879, 876. Now it just changed to counting down by three. You have to hit the trigger to confirm, and a new count will start. It’s the most difficult one, but they look for more hits than misses it seems. Just concentrate on the flying as much as you can. I think they want to see that you aviate safely no matter what the distraction.

The testing module is a cumulative score, so don’t worry at all if you do well on some modules and not so well on others. It’s meant to be challenging as it goes on. No one nails it all, and it’s not expected.

The group exercises are just like Emirates. They give you two while they watch and take notes. Just be a good participant, offer suggestions and solutions, but listen to all input and don’t shoot down anyone’s ideas.

After this you eat lunch and then they give you the green light to continue or you politely get shown the door.

The HR is one on one. Straight- forward TMAAT questions, a bit about why you want to work there, know a bit about the company, etc. Very friendly. Don’t be a brown- noser too much. Don’t seem like you’re begging for the job. Don’t go on about how badly you want it, etc. Just be polite, clear and concise with your answers, don’t be fidgety. Be confident, but not arrogant. You want to be seen as a professional that knows how to do his/her job, not a starry-eyed kid on Christmas. This is the majors, they expect that you are past that phase.

After this, they will again tell you if you’ve passed and will go on to the sim. If so, you will get a briefing package to go over. That’s the end of the day. Don’t stay up all night obsessing about the profile. It’s not expected that you master the 737-800 overnight. Go have dinner with the guys, have a drink and get some sleep.


The sim profile starts with a full briefing. They tell you what the want to see and ask you about your experience and type. You will be assessed as PF and then you be PM for the next guy. The profile is at Liverpool RWY 27. It is a 2 engine T/O, all raw data, do a full SID, vectors for a normal ILS, go missed, then a failure on the missed. Clean it up and you’re done more or less. A couple of guys got a hold entry in between, but nothing much different.

*Fly smooth and easy on the controls and trim. Don’t be constantly monkeying it.
*Maintain alt and airspeed. If you get off 100 or 200’, CORRECT. Don’t be paranoid, but make the corrections. They want to see that you are aware of what is going on.
* Brief what you are going to do. Set up the radios and the guidance panel during the T/O brief for the SID. When you brief the approach, ask for the autopilot, tell the PM your HDG, ALT, and AIRSPD you are maintaining, and X-fer the controls, with “you have the controls”.
*Configure with flaps 1 setting on base, next is flaps 5 as you roll final (you’ll be like 13-15 NM out). Gear down, flaps 15 at one and a half dots on the G/S, flaps 30 landing checklist at half a dot, then follow it down at 7-800 FPM.
*HIT THE TOGA BUTTON on the missed so you get the F/D. put in the rudder when they fail it and clean it up. It flies easy on one, use the rudder trim once you get a hold of it. Flaps and gear up on schedule….don’t panic or rush. If the PM forgets or gets flustered, REMIND HIM and call for what you want. Be in command! Make sure to have the PM declare the emergency with ATC, climb straight-ahead and STANDBY you advise them until you are ready for instructons.

BE CONFIDENT, USE CRM, AND DON’T BE A PANSY! THEY WANT TO SEE A CAPTAIN! If you’re a nervous wreck, keep making silly mistakes, and apologize for every wrong move you will not pass.

GOOD LUCK!

[Guided accordingly]

Macca, I thought It was just me !

Past two months worst FZ rosters since before aims. Whats going On ?

Anyone else having :

Single days off.
Single days on between days off. (wtf?)
Available days

(BTW has anyone noticed from last crewing e mail that avbl can be changed with 30hrs notice, as opposed to 48hrs as stated in the FOPM? When and why did this change?)

I hear the delightful layovers start with a midnight depart DXB then 24 hrs in CGP before return. Nothing quite like a 24 hr rest period following a run of nights before an early rtn. (Clueless!)

Please be guided . . . get some mossie cream and look for another job :eek:

[Tolerant Dubai]

Absolutely agree!

This is terrible rostering at it’s best. I’m doing day flights followed by night flights , followed by day flights. One day off, maximum two.

Does it not say in part A that this type of rostering should be avoided? It seems it is now a target.

If it gets too bad bad, call in with the ‘F’ word and submit an ASR..... oh hang on, what happens to our ASRs.... :mad:

Just what moral here at flydubai needed..... well done management.

Dear Santa, can we please have a new Chief Pilot soon?

[mave292]

To top things off guys our salary is a day late, not in the Emirates NBD account yet:ugh:

[tothepoint]

As stated by tolerant dubai, and as previously stated,
anyone wanting to move to dubai for the long term and hasn't applied to EK should do before FZ. (job requirements noted)
Short of flight crew more a/c being delivered = more work, not a bad thing for cash. Not being able to escape Dubai once a month, explore the region over a few days off and generally having a life is the down side.
Something has to give and the resignation of another 2 Capt's just confirms the general consensus.

[Spit The Dummie]

Do you mean contraventions of the Ops Manual / Part A / Flight Time Limitations / 7.2 / 'GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF THE SCHEME' (see also: CAR-OPS 1.1105):

Rosters with numerous inclusions of fatiguing rest periods ? (OMA 7.2.a)
Rosters published less than 1 week before commencement, and with changes (seemingly) to various duty notice periods ? (OMA 7.2.b)
Rosters with numerous single days-off and with ever earlier starts following a day off and / or ever later finishes prior to a day off ? (OMA 7.2.c)

And let's not forget those with Rosters that fall short of the projected block hours, as advertised during recruitment, which then has the knock-on effect on their 'projected take-home pay' !!
To make up the short fall, maybe the Rostering & Commercial Dept's would care to contribute towards paying some folks bills !?

Some people in (mis)Management suggested that for good rosters to occur we need to have a 'critical Mass'. I now realise that they were actually referring to some sort of extreme religious intervention ! :}

[TRUECRUZ]

Hey you are very right :D
Got some info from a reliable :mad: upstairs that told me that AIMS is deliberately manupulated . They have also rigged AIMS to make it really hard to swap now. They call them officially ongoing system errors but I have it from upstairs that this is done to avoid people swapping around too much and to have more control over us.

Talk about no life Roster:\ or the usual "BUT ITS LEGAL" slogan:yuk:

Hey has anyone been called out on Standby recently and then got a call back some time later asking you to stay at home and put back on standby again? This can surely not be legal either. This has been happening to me 3 times now and once I was called out and then told not to come in and put back on standby and 6 hours later they called me again and 20 minutes after that called and cancelled me and put me back on standby again for the third time := finally 1 hour before my standby finish they call me and send me on a long trip.
:{

[TRUECRUZ]

Hey Tolerant Dubai

The last rumor I hear of the chief Pilot is that it may go to a Irish Lepracon who is hell bent on doing some serious damage upstairs and to some folks on the line. As it is he hates all the guys from the land of the free and the Brazilians and is looking for some serious retribution :ouch:

If management does'nt make a quick anouncement to clear things up about who the leader will be :mad: they just keep damaging their own reputation. :D

[Tolerant Dubai]

Truecruz,

Who ever the new Chief Pilot is, it has to be an improvement on the person in place now. As for the new one being Irish hell bent on retribution, well lets just wait and see. Personally, I think this might be a little over the top.

However, the new guy really does need to make some immediate changes, otherwise people will just vote with their feet...... pretty much as they are doing now.

For me, this is the worse rostering I have ever experienced. I know AIMS is capable of much, much better schedules, if it were free from malicious human interference. I have been exposed to AIMS for many years and have only ever seen this level of crap at Flydubai.

But guys, as long as you are all doing a 'great job’ and writing EFOS reports with a positive spin, you’ll be fine..... you may even get it printed! :O

[StuckinFZ]

Where is Dubaigoing? Why is he not here defending useless indians in rostering and the upper management that let them carry on with the abuse? Where the hell did these AVBL come from? Impossible to swap, Funny how they show up before and after ROFFS to make it impossible to get some consecutive days off....

The last few months the Days off has gone from 13-15 to 7-8....... Clottered up with STBY and AVBL...... September is showing 5 AVBL on my schedule and 3 STBY............

[Guided accordingly]

Just heard two more capts resigned, and one fired. Whats going on ?

Any news on new CP, its all very quiet ?

Got 81 hrs oct, mostly at night, lots of shift changes, ie. late, early, night. Is everyone else the same ?

Stuckin, Agreed its crap, I think you should change ur handle to stuck in ****tagong, it has a certain ring to it ! :)

[Alaska737]

With EK housing now up to 14k a month and basic to 25k, bonus, real medical and extra benefits, no need for the ridiculous staff travel forms to check whether we fly a single minute into that day and then wait for 2 weeks for an approval! It seems like a no brainer as I near the end of my prison term!

[tothepoint]

I have a feeling many will past GO and pay their money than put up with the on goings at FZ.
Something is seriously wrong up top, just taken far too long to announce a new CP. Either a puppet is preferred or no one with some balls has considered or been considered for the job. That being said changes to the rest of the system aint going to happen given that a new CP is high priority nd that has taken forever!!!

As the A scale Capt's slowly resign then pay issues won't be such a problem.

EK a far better package for anyone considering the Mid East, unless you find it hard to go back to the RHS.

cadets better be good ones, thats all I can say!

[StuckinFZ]

What about changing my handle to BombedinKDH or ShotinKBL.........

Unfortunately too many handles to chose from in this Airline.....

[Voodoo 3]

Guided,

Two captains resigned and one fired.

One fired!?!?!?!? Do you have any more on that. What for? Not heard a peep about that so either very recent or very hush hush......

[0123456789]

UN Security Council released a report on the situation in Afghanistan.

Read here:

http://unama.unmissions.org/Portals/UNAMA/SG%20Reports/110921%20SG%20Report%20on%20Afghanistan%20FINAL.pdf

The average monthly number of incidents for 2011 is up 39 per cent compared with the same period in 2010.
If memory serves correct last year (2010) was the most violent year in recent years already.........

........0123

[Kabul 1]

Fired."..Who? When?

[Alaska737]

Dude!!!!! Are you kidding??? 2hrs along those roads to the hotel in ****agong each way for a per diem of $2 an hour???

[tothepoint]

Alaska,

along with a 2hr bus ride you also get a free set of steak knives!! (that would be a DOHA return prior to the ****agong day stop).
Its awesome, I can't wait to collect my per diem, it may pay for a pair of wellingtons to go for a walk. don't stay out too long as its a 0445 wake up call for an 0815 departure!!

Race you the door.

[777forever]

Wait a min, its seriously a 2 hour bus ride to the hotel?

[Diz]

Wonder how you guys get to T2 DXB? Do you drive or take public transport or get a cab. Where do you guys stay?how much per month ?
Say a 3bedroom villa...

[mave292]

Are they for real with the latest ACN on the overnights ? Feel like i'm 12 again and back in school

[Flat Cap]

@Diz

Pretty well everyone drives to T2 Diz, public transport not really an option give FD report times. You can taxi, alot of the Cabin crew do, it's not that expensive, but does add up.

People live all over, singles and those with no kids can usually be found at JBR, Dubai Marina, or Palm. Those with kids at Silicon Oasis, Arabian Ranches, and the Palm. A 3 bed will cost from 115-150k dirhams depending where it is.

F-C

[Diz]

Thanks F-C...
Actually now I'm thinking twice and figuring if it's worthwhile working for FZ considering everything from working condition to family quality life.I am from Asia.will be bringing along wife and 2 boys..Still employed and quite comfortable ..reason is money...But before I decide,need to calculate the expenses...etc.

Been to DXB ,layovers..the last was in 08...so I know a little bit about Dxb..the heat the people.From this forum I know the crew are fantastic to work with.

Who knows one day we'll be flying together...saw yr plane inCMB...nice :ok:

[CAP B767]

how Many airplanes are coming end 2011 to December 2012, how many drivers per plane need FZ? Real numbers for a captain flying 70 hours a month, and average flying days a month? What one receive cash, and how is the deal of loan to pay the rent in advance to the landlord ?
FZ stopped screenings for non type rated , and expect January start again with it.
Thanks
CAP B767

[Alaska737]

Many companies are now offering DEC to FOs with over 6000hrs, I can't see why guys would stay at FD now. Company treats you like 1st graders!!

[cedex]

Hello Cap,

Average scheduled flying seems to be between 70-80 hours. But if you want to fly more that can easily be done by taking on flights from other guys.
I believe you can get 6 months advance on your housing allowance, that usually covers your first payment on housing. Rent is paid every 6 months most of the time.

[Dio]

What companies are you refering to?

While Flydubai has many major problems, and I think Emirates is the place to be if you come to Dubai, particularly if you have a family, I'm not in favour of bulls##t for bulls##t's sake!!

People who read this site have enough info in these pages to make up their minds without having to read rubbish!! I have been critical of this place(rosters/layovers/payscales) but if people still want to come so be it!!

I for one have seen no real exodus, yes one or two, but where are the 40ish who are off to Etihad?

[Tolerant Dubai]

The 30-40 or so pilots were never ‘off’ to Etihad. A large number of pilots had ‘applied' to Etihad. Maybe this was due to the unofficial two year ban on joining Emirates....

However, as recruitment there (Etihad) is currently quite slow, naturally there has been no mass exodus. I think it’s fair to say some pilots are unhappy and ready to jump out of the flydubai fire..... but we are not stupid, and won't do so without first securing another job first. Basic economics!

[Dio]

I find it hard to believe that the lack of movement is down to the ban on Emirates!! You can "apply" to a lot of places!! Most people who can leave Flydubai without paying a penny towards the bond have been in the company for 2 years(simple maths)

As I say, I don't agree with a lot of things in the company but facts are better than BS any day of the week, and from what I can see there is a lot BS out there, be it 30-40 "applied" to Etihad or command jobs for F/O's with 6000hrs or pilots being fired(i've heard nothing of that one on line) I'm all for pilots finding better terms elsewhere or improving the exisiting ones they have but to do so by talking smack is not the way forward. Management know the amount of BS that is out there about this place and have done nothing to change what is on offer, the only way I can see a change happening is if there is constructive critisism, to add to the BS does not help!!

People will read this and think what they want, we can't help that, but if you want a guy to say he/she is not joining having been offered the job, they have to have valid reasons to put to the company otherwise we may all accept that the company will not change it's policy, because it's all nonsense that they have heard before.

[Tolerant Dubai]

I was simply making the point that there were a lot of applications to etihad. The reason being, in my opinion, that some flydubai pilots were suitably fed up enough to put an application in and with a two year block on joining Emirates, Etihad seems the only viable choice if you want to stay in the UAE. So lack of movement has nothing to do with Emirates at all. It is the rate of recruitment at Etihad which is currently quite slow.

However, of those guys that applied, how many will be offered a position or even still wish to leave Flydubai, no one knows. One thing for sure though, it’s an indication of pilot moral here at FD.

P.S. I actually know people who applied :O

[flyermd]

Guys, I don't know what to think of this thread any more. A lot of you complaining about things, wondering why people are still applying for the job....
This is how I see it:
-bad rostering is a common thing to meet in many companies, even with 90+ hours a month; so, how bad can it be with 70hours average? how many sectors per day?
-being home every night ( for a family guy like me ) is a target, something that you don't get for sure with Emirates....
-when what you take home now is half of what you could get with flydubai, again, why not joining? I know that you have to pay for everything, but if my math is right, you have a decent life stile with 25000aed out of the 48-50.000aed for a DEC. Not to mention that the projected income of a DEC with flydubai is higher than that of a F/O with Emirates (checking both web sites).
I'd be more interested in reading here the latest things about fleet (numbers, maintenance etc) training, updates regarding the routes, schedule, insurances, places to live in dxb ( to form/join an expat pilots community) and stuff....
I'm really considering joining this company so I would appreciate some subjective (as much as possible ) minuses and pluses regarding flydubai.

[ManaAdaSystem]

Minus: No pension.

[flyermd]

that's if you're thinking loooong term (the pension scheme). by let's talk about 5 years. at least I don't think I can cope with the climate for more. and once again, let's compare a captain with flydubai with (the obvious position for new entry) a f/o with emirates.

[RandyBMC]

Actually, 5 years you receive a significant pension pay out from EK, and at 7 years, you receive the full payout if I'm not mistaken. I will have to check with some EK friends, and maybe some can comment in the meantime, what the amount is, but it is very significant.

As for pluses and minuses, I'll throw out a few (and I will be as objective as possible -subjectivity just clouds it all).

Pluses:

Great guys to fly with 99% of the time, in both seats
Excellent, respectful and fun cabin crew
Home most nights or days - except for the new CGP layover
Great westernized culture for the middle east
Good housing options within budget
Active expat and pilot community - lots of social events
Perfect shiny new airplanes with very rarely even a single MEL
Management that has potential to be good
Very solid financial stability
42 day leave
Education allowance
Lots of good schools for the kids
Great weather 7 months out of the year
Huge continued expansion potential

Minuses:

Rosters (to include vacation and bidding), enough said
A few spots some people aren't comfortable with from a safety perspective
Roughly 70% night flying
Still some walls between departments (something most places have)
Lack of any retirement
No flight pay for sick usage (you lose pay when you call in sick)
Unpaid 42 day leave
Education allowance is partial for most institutions
Mediocre health insurance at best
Only 3 children are covered for everything (same as EK)
Above mentioned health care not provided in North America
Very weak travel benefits
SUMMER
Payscales are skewed now
Management that has potential to make huge mistakes
New company relatively speaking, so still quite a few rough edges

There are some small changes that could be made at flydubai that could have a huge impact on pilot morale and lifestyle. We just changed Chief Pilots, and I know the office is aware of what those concerns are (including rosters, health insurance, payscales and retirement). I am a bit of a guarded optimist in that I am hoping to see change in these concerns over time - which to be honest I have since I've been here, mostly for the better.

Like I stated on both lists, management can make good decisions that will have a huge boost for morale, and they can conversely make small changes or even no changes that will worsen pilot morale. We all know that the probable and realistic outcome will be a balance of good and bad decisions - which will give us all something to complain about during trips! As long as the company will acknowledge the issues and work toward correcting what can be changed without negatively affecting the business, I will be happy and I think most of the pilot group will be (most of the changes - even payscales - can be accomplished without jeopardizing the business BTW).

I am sure there can be additions to both lists - feel free to add or argue.

Hope that helps!
Randy

[BritishGuy]

Surely, the medical benefits for one is something that has decreased over time. Being a singleton, this can sometimes not really bother you. But having a family, well others depend on that benfit which I feel is very poor indeed.

[flyermd]

very helpful post indeed, Randy. Thank you!
Could you elaborate a bit on the issue of health insurance? What is it not covering? Can you pay extra to make it a good one?
what do you mean by "no flight pay for sick usage" ? you receive just the basic salary and no flight hour pay? (which makes sense once you don't fly). there's no compensation from the insurance if one calls days off on medical reason?
the unpaid 42 days leave is indeed something to worry about....

[ManaAdaSystem]

Regarding no recruitment of non rated pilots:

Pilots - work with us - flydubai (http://flydubai.com/english/work-with-us/pilots.aspx)

Read the banner on top of the page.

[RandyBMC]

We are definitely still taking non-typed pilots. They are great guys - most of the FO applicants are current turbo-prop guys with a lot of experience.

Health insurance has co-pays with in network, and out of network or dental stuff has to be reimbursed, which seems to be hit or miss. There is a max cap as well. It used to be great (Amman Gold), but has changed twice since we started and is absolutely not an improvement. There is not a way to bump with more money to a different policy.

The sick leave is just different from any other carrier I've flown with. So yes, you keep your basic pay, but lose the flight pay.

Not totally sure on the recruiting side - we only see them once through the CTC assessment. We are probably about 75% pass rate or better on the final flydubai assessment.

Hope that helps!
Randy

[flyermd]

morning Randy! once again thanks for the shared info. any comments on the final interview in dubai, after passing CTC.

[float flyer]

Whats good for one is not always the case for the next guy...weigh up the facts as put by Randy (Well done by the way!)

Annual leave IS paid, it is your basic! Should make sense, don't fly, don't get flight pay...that's way it is called Flight Pay. Same with sick pay...

Like I say it aint rocket science!:ok:

[Adamsm]

Transport Jock - you will have to pay your own way to CTC :{ But if you are selected, flydubai will pay for your ticket to Dubai for final interview:D

[RandyBMC]

You are absolutely right - you don't lose your basic salary. I wrote that it is unpaid because the compensation package listed uses 80 hours for an average of flight pay for your monthly remuneration. We don't get that during leave, or sick pay. Since our flight pay is a much larger portion of our package than, say, EK, I think it is definitely worth mentioning.

Our monthly flight pay for FO at 80 hours is 8000AED, and for Captains it is 12000AED. EK has significantly less of their salary in flight pay. For comparison, the US airlines are mostly paid completely in flight pay, though there is a monthly minimum guarantee (around 78 hours) so that acts like a basic salary. In addition, you are paid for any trip you call in sick for (or have vacation during).

I just want to make sure everyone is aware of what they sign up for so they are happy when they get here!

Hope that helps,
Randy

[CAP B767]

Randy thanks for your valuable information.
Waiting the assessment for NTR Captain ,Hope to join on first semester next year.
A couple more questions.
Roosters: just 2 days off in a row maximum ?
Vacation: you take the 42 days in a row, or you can take 21 days twice a year?
How much could be the expenses(water, energy, gas,Internet, cable,maintenance) for 2 persons in an apartment
Can I get an apartment 2 bedroom in a nice place for 120000 a year?
Company pays for parking in airport?
Thanks
CAP B767

[tothepoint]

Transport Jock,

Just re your comments about EK and FZ. Take home pay may not be that much different provided you fly your 80hrs.. but no provident fund at FZ, long term that is a nice to have.
Rosters at EK for longer flights, effectively mean more days off at home or days off to travel. Rosters at FZ are terrible - and that is being nice!!! Can only request 2 days off per month (this may be changing). Majority of rosters now are like a normal working week... 2 off 5 on (75% of flying is late night or early morning)

If you are coming with a family EK package is far more superior for health care, accomm and travel benefits...
Water and Elec bills here are on the rise and so are many other things such as fuel and groceries.

Overall I think many are using FZ as a placement whilst waiting to return off furlough or better jobs to come up.

Capt 767-
Parking at the airport is provided,
check out www dubizzle dot com to see what 120k will get you for rent.

[flyermd]

guys, at the FZ company presentation they advertised for captains:
basic: 23500
housing:14000
travel 2300 !!!!!!
flying hours :12000
so far everything except travel is the same as some of you said; so, is this 2300 the NEW travel allowance or they were just wrong????
at the final stage of the interview (in DXB) they put you through a medical also? how technical (difficult) is the face-to-face interview?
many thanks!

[Old King Coal]

flyermd: The package at flydubai has always been made up of the following:

A fixed monthly Basic Salary.
A fixed monthly Housing Allowance.
A fixed monthly Transport Allowance.
A variable monthly amount for Flight Pay, which is based entirely upon how many Block Hours you achieve in the previous month (the amount being paid monthly in arrears).
Regarding flydubai's projected headline figure for Flight Pay (e.g. 12,000 DHs per month for a Captain).

Having reviewed all of my salary slips (from my previous 29 months as a Captain within flydubai), I can attest that my own reality on Flight Pay is that it has averaged out (for me) as approximately 10,120 Dhs per month... and no matter how I slice-up the data, if I take a large enough spread of months (e.g. say, the last 12 months?!) that pretty much always works out to be my average. I'll leave you to do the math on how much that sort of monthly shortfall in (projected) earnings could equate to in the longterm; though, suffice to say, that the difference between projected versus actual is not necessarily small coinage ! :uhoh:

[flyermd]

totally agree with you! but on top of what you said, i see the transport allowance short of 1700 of what was on flydubai web site couple of months ago; this plus the 2000 short of the variable pay, you're 3700drh short of projected monthly!!!

[Spit The Dummie]

For those thinking of joining flydubai, you definitely should have read of this thread: http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/468945-what-happened-security-kabul-if-you-go-tech-flydubai-aircraft.html

[StuckinFZ]

With regards to the old saying, if you don't like it, leave. I think that is exactly what a lot of the FZ pilots will do.....

Then Goofy, the man with a Womans name, and spaceman can sit there and figure what went wrong........ All while our COO looks for another airline he can run without making any decisions.....

From bad to worse..... That is what is going on with 5-2 rosters and destinations too far away for normal duties without layovers, getting bumped up to MMO to make it legal......

[onvacation]

Is anybody else pi$$ed off about how the vacation bidding works? Horse $hit!

[Flyer1015]

Is anybody else pi$$ed off about how the vacation bidding works? Horse $hit!
For those considering employment here, how does it work? What happened?

[StuckinFZ]

It does not work.......

[Flyer1015]

What specifically doesn't work? Are pilots being assigned random portions of vacation weeks?

[Guided accordingly]

Well done, congratulations, etc, to crew scheduling for an amazing effort !:D

It is the 24th and boy this months effort is an award winner !

Please correct me if I'm wrong guys, but the Dec rosters are out and it appears that no matter how over/under crewed we are; no matter how many flights that need covering; it's now obviously the norm to schedule a max of two consec days off. Of course its between a late and an early, with all manner of Sh1te in between. (Don't even mention AVLB duties!)

Is this how AIMS software plans optimum utilisation, versus crew rest ?
Or is there some other agenda behind this?

As human beings, How does the body cope with this crap long term ?
(ie. 3 yrs+)

Fatigue is now an issue here. The safety Dept knows it for sure.

We're getting by, but I worry that the holes in the cheese are gonna line up soon.

What are we going to do about it ? Your thoughts please? :confused:




(pls, no wanabees, this question is for guys that work here !)

[Tolerant Dubai]

Simple answer is they aint going to do anything about it, we can’t do anything about it.

Simple solution...... see ya!

[Dio]

Perhaps a few more all pilot e-mails might get us somewhere!! They seemed to back down over the leave bids, and with the CP advising us not to do it again, I would think they might be a little scared of this function!!

[tothepoint]

In the 5 airlines I have previously worked for 1 being a start up, I have never seen such inept rostering practices.
For the past few months, the 2 OFF, 5 ON schedule has been normal. 75% of flights are night and early morning!!

Obviously I am confused. A bidding system in place that isn't used to the full potential!! Rubbish in = rubbish out!!!

I would not be suprised to see more resignations as a result of the current practices - heard a few tendered the resignations last week - just the beginning.

Would have been better of flipping burgers at Burger King!

[Alaska737]

I suggest those of you with a wife ask them to hit the "post" button when you are flying. I heard there was an Englis captain who is willing to present any concerns we had to the management? If he is willing please post an email address here?

Questions...isn't a 2 year hiring ban against the human rights conventions???? How can we prove this????

[Tolerant Dubai]

Human rights.....ha ha, there are no such rights here I’m afraid. Just have to post all our concerns on this forum for those people intending on applying here. Maybe they won’t make the same mistakes we did!

My roster is 5 on, 2 off also. Have early starts followed immediately with night shifts, before allowing me to have 2 days off to rest...... on so on.

This is BAD rostering. The idiot who puts these rosters together is either a vindictive little ****e or completely inept at his job. Either way, he needs to be replaced.

:ugh:

[Whoop Whoop Wake Up]

Tolerant Dubai

I'm sure there are many people in the company that share your anger and frustration, but resorting to personal insults will not change anything and diminishes the value of a good argument.

[Guided accordingly]

Allocated leave now on AIMS, ahead of the previously published date of 30th Nov. However, the auto allocation of un awarded leave is due on the 5th dec ?

Does anyone understand why If leave is automatically allocated by AIMS, it cannot be done in one process by hitting the enter key ?

[Tolerant Dubai]

Whoop Whoop,

You are absolutely correct. Personal attacks are actually bad form and do indeed diminish a good argument.

However, this is either vindictive rostering or inept rostering. Vindictive as it appears that pilots should not have more than two days off in a row. This is despite being shift workers and working nights on a regular basis. Simply saying ‘it’s legal’ when challenged suggests that there is no interest in the rostering department on the effects of fatigue and the potential impact it has on flight safety. How many incidents have there been over the years caused by pilot error, where fatigue has played a major role? Of those, how many were legal? How about requested days off? Two requested days off a month, which cannot be linked together over the end of a month and thus provide 4 day block. If you try and leave a day in-between this selection, you will almost certainly have a trip or AVL or USBY or STBY. Any reason why this should be so?

Inept rostering results from the apparent inability of this department to construct a roster that adheres to the flight time limitations set out in Ops manual part A. A roster that fails to provide suitable rest pre and post night flying. Flipping early day reports to night flights in the same 5 day block, a practice that should be avoided according to our manual, due to the fatigue inducing effects that have been proven to occur.

Trip trading has been made virtually redundant due to only having a maximum of 2 days off to pick up an extra flight, which therefore causes all sorts of violations on the system. In order to trip trade you have to have a flight taken by someone, before you can trade for a more favourable trip.

Therefore I still stand by what I say without the 'little ****e’ bit.

:O

[pilotdreamer2]

Is it really that bad at flydubai? I hear a lot of negative comments. :(

[onvacation]

The rosters at Flydubai suck! If you come here to work you will regret it!

[Flyer1015]

What's the horror with vacation bidding as has been mentioned?

[Whoop Whoop Wake Up]

Tolerant

All correct. Except he who pays the piper calls the tune.

Until they realise upstairs that talking about safety isn't good enough - that safety costs money (competent people in key roles, enough crew to have a decent roster, enough training for challenging destinations, not flying to very dangerous places for a few $ more, etc etc) the downward spiral will continue.

And when it spirals into the ground, do you think those responsible will put up their hands and say "we let that happen"? No, they will run around blaming anyone but themselves, as they have already proved with Kabul.

[Flyer1015]

How long does it take for one to hear from CTC after applying? The first step is their "screening" and if you are well above the mins, what's the approximate time it takes to process and screen your application to invite to London? 1 month? More? Less?

[flyermd]

guys, will anyone tell how is the final stage of the interview in DXB? Technical questions, TMAAT ones, general aviation knowledge?
thank you in advenace!

[flyermd]

Flyer1015 : for me it took a couple of months after applying online, but after an email sent asking them for the status of my application, in week time was invited for an interview. So be patient! If they want you, they'll call you! Good luck! :ok:

[adverse-bump]

Is it really that bad at fd?

Is there anyonej willing to put there hands up and say they enjoy it at fly Dubai?

[tothepoint]

Its not really that bad - its just 2 aspects of the job, both flight and cabin crews which are getting them off side.

1) Rostering - its appalling - no other way to describe it. Can only request 2 days off per month. Based on those 2 days off a roster seems to be made up of 5 days on - early and late starts followed by 2 days off - recovery.
Problem with that arrangement is it becomes very hard to swap/trade due many flight time limitations imposed.
Hence its the worst rostering system I have ever been associated with. Not sure how, if or when it will change. Its a contributing factor to very low moral.

2) Security systems in place for some of the destinations we go to...
Not only present destinations in afghanistan but for new places and how much faith can be entrusted to the people that devised the last plan in Kabul (cockup).

Other than that, most people won't complain too much because they have moved half way across the world with family for a job not living up to their expectations - but are either bonded or have no other options at present which will change in due course.

Fixing these 2 issues would curb some of the negativity you hear on this forum. But that comes from leadership not management and I haven't witnessed any from the present.

Halas

[Tolerant Dubai]

Just to add to the mix.....

New destinations being looked at are rumoured to be Baghdad and somewhere in Somalia, probably Mogadishu.

Try tech stopping there..... :O

[NGrat]

Just to add to the mix.....

New destinations being looked at are rumoured to be Baghdad and somewhere in Somalia, probably Mogadishu.

Try tech stopping there..... http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif

TD.... Baghdad is not worse than Kabul, kandahar etc.... I have been there on layovers many times in previous company. I would rather have a overnight in BGW than other places FZ flies to.
Flying to BGW is just as peaceful as flying EBL or SUL, DOH and BAH, No problems at all. Infact i would rather fly baghdad than Katmandu, ****tagong etc!!

Rgds

NG

[Flyer1015]

What about vacation bidding? I hear some gripes for that system. What's with that?

[temporarily unsure]

Hmmm.

One FO on a recent course has gone AWOL - simply vanished into thin air! Another Capt from an EU airline has looked at his current roster - which bears no resemblance to the rosters that he was shown 4 months ago & is considering doing the same...

Ask yourself why...:ugh:

[CowboySupportMission]

Anybody know or hear of when the next non-rated FO interviews will be run?

Thank You

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Tolerant Dubai
Does the FTL scheme allow any more than 3 earlies?. Or is like CAP371 where you can only do 3 then have to switch to lates etc.
The other question about leave is AIMS can do anything, either the whole lot or a re-run after the initial run.
To an outsider sounds like not enough crew and toooo much going on

[Guided accordingly]

3 Bomb blasts in kabul today, 48 killed, more injured.

Further blast in Kandadhar city today.

The Company position, Afghanistan is not a war zone and flights are an ''acceptable risk'' !

Dont be going tech there today guys, safe flying.

[Guided accordingly]

Incompetence extraodinaire !

Has anyone got a clue what is going on ?

[captkirk3000]

Does anyone know the average upgrade time at flydubai?
Also when the next assessment for 2012?

[Dio]

Anybody know what happened at the last CP meeting? I hear the roster was up for debate!!

[Tolerant Dubai]

Dio,

The roster is up for debate at every meeting and has been for 6 months or so. However, we’re still talking about it :ugh:

Captkirk3000,

Command upgrade at flydubai is not the rapid process once sold to prospective FO’s. If you joined today, at the current rate of appx 2 upgrades per month, you could expect an interview in excess of three years. However, a slow down in expansion next year, may even exasperate the situation further. I believe a few a/c will be released from service next year, and therefore the new a/c will replace these. Thus the net increase will not be by the 7 a/c due to arrive, more like 3 or 4.

[captkirk3000]

Tolerant Dubai!
Thanx for the info. I guess I'll continue to update my info with CTC/flydubai...hopefully they will do some hire throughout 2012!

[LookingSouth]

Good Day. I am a non-rated pilot with 5400 hours. I have passed level 1 of the screening process. Just wondering when the interviews will be running again.

Are upgrades based on seniority or performance based?

Thank You. :ok:

[ABBOT]

40 dead and 140 wounded today in Bagdad, I guess tht should meet the criteria for flydubai to commence services:sad:

[fly2AK]

@ LookingSouth not really sure when the interviews are taking place but as for upgrades they are seniority based. However you need to meet the requirements for upgrade ie 2 successful Proficiency Checks, 1000 hrs on the 737 I think 500 with FD aircraft and 4000 hrs total time. Pass the assessment interview, pass 12 of 14 assessment flights, and then you will head off to training. My colleages can confirm if I have the upgrade requirements correct, been a while since I have seen the requirements here. However they should be correct. Right now upgrade is not going as fast as people were expecting but hopefully that will change once they stop the Direct entry captains. Best of luck and remember "Be careful what you ask for!"

[fly2AK]

@ Abbot at least 69 dead now just hope that no one gets a tech in Baghdad! We can always ask for a flack vest when we pick up our EFB ;-)

[torallin]

Today I flew to Kabul. During push an aircraft asked for clearance to Kandahar, the tower recommended delaying start as Kandahar was closed due to Rocket attack.......

Please read this as a food for thought.......

At Kandahar Airfield, rocket attacks part of daily routine - The Whig Standard - Ontario, CA (http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?archive=true&e=1051264)

[EladElap]

Par for the course old chap... the safest part of Kandahar is the airlfield/base.... enjoy flying into the Stan!:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Iver]

More upgrades on the way... Looks like another new 737-800 should be arriving shortly (or just arrived):

A6-FDW - Fly Dubai Boeing 737-800 Aircraft Photo ID: 173743 | Airplane-Pictures.net (http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image173743.html)

[Sciolistes]

I guess that would be this one (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Flydubai/Boeing-737-86Q/2036849/L/&sid=5f26125e41c53cb7f057ee68b7bd1e25) Iver:

[Alaska737]

Jan schedules look great but now a new 3year hiring ban???? December resignations must have been high? Another great way to promote trust!!!

[Guided accordingly]

Really ? Where did u hear this? Does this apply to ek only?

[tothepoint]

Guided,

Yes the 2 year period between moving to EK is extended to 3 years.
I don't know about other carriers.

Maybe there was an overwhelming number of FZ pilots that had done 2 years applying. Easy way to curb that trend.

[captkirk3000]

So with all the December resignations, does this mean that this year FZ will be hiring more aggressively or just to fill a small number of vacancies?
Also what is the success rate of the pilot assessment for FZ?

[dash8pilotCanada]

Any addition to what CaptKirk has said,

Are they actively looking for Non-Rated Captains? Are they filling up with Rated Captains? I know alot of companies put the posting on their website but then do not end up calling many people for interviews :\

[BritishGuy]

Can someone confirm or quash these rumors please?! I keep hearing that 7 of our f/o's have gone through the EK interview and have been successful. They were all at their 2 year point (or more). From what I understand, once you're done with 2 years, you can use the 'gratuity' to pay off the last year of the bond (the 3rd year) so you walk away net-net, not at a gain, but not at a loss.

Now the company have gone ahead and changed the bar from a 2 year lock in to a 3 year lock in (even if you're wiling to buy yourself out?!) That is absolute pants.

Absolutely knackered from my current roster - just wrapping up a batch of long nights in a row. Cannot function properly. Thank God next months schedule is a little more user-friendly. I just hope the rosters keep improving as I will add, the January rosters may be great for some, but mine is just 'ok' - nothing to write home about.

[LookingSouth]

Just curious from guys working at Flydubai. I have head a lot of reasons why you do not like it. (Scheduling, Kabul, Etc). Just wondering what are some of the things that you do like about it.

Also any updates on interviews for non-rated guys?

Please PM me if you have honest opinions about the company you prefer not to discuss on the public chat.

Thanks


Lookingsouth. :ok:

[Alaska737]

It's such a shame that in one knee jerk reaction that FD has again proven they have absolutely no sense of honesty. The once 1 year hiring ban got extended to 2 years and now 3 years......who's to say they won't keep doing this each year to keep their pilots in an illegal contract! Even UAE law is about to be lowered to just 6 months, but FD has just demonstrated that they only do what suits them. Several of the guys who got hired at EK were told their start dates have been postponed for at least an extra year! Anyone thinking of joining FD, be VERY VERY VERY careful!

[Guided accordingly]

Potential joiners take note !

Consider also the impeccable timing of the launch of flights to Baghdad and Najaf..

Bombs target Iraqi Shi'ites, kill at least 73 | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/05/us-iraq-violence-idUSTRE80409W20120105?view=227951862)

Please be Guided accordingly :ooh:

[wrongwayaround]

Thanks for all the good info gents.
I put my application in this morning.. THEN read this thread..
Is anyone willing to PM me? I'd really appreciate a skype chat or something.
WWA

[Alaska737]

All operations are warned that there are ongoing military operations in Iraq and non-military flight operations could be at significant risk. *There are continuing reports of indiscriminate missile and small attacks on aircraft operating in Iraq. *Operators undertake flights within the Baghdad FIR at their own risk.

[Sciolistes]

What is that you're talking about there? A NOTAM?

[Soprano]

Any FZ FO's willing to tell me what their monthly salary averages out like? And what are the accommodation costs like?

[Alaska737]

According to UAE labor law the 3 year ban is illegalll. My husband and I moved to dxb because we believed FD was an honest and reasonable company, but they prove time and time again that they are not. We didn't even consider EK but these unannounced and underhanded tricks are pushing us to leave the UAE altogether. I hear so many stories that are not even on this forum, and it makes us only wonder what other things will they do?

[Iver]

Alaska 737,

Thank you for sharing your concerns and feelings. Sounds like FD has not treated you to your expectations. That situation for you is unfortunate and this type of message is clearly not resonating with a lot of job seekers on this forum. Contract law does not exist in the Middle East. Simple as that...

People coming to the ME to find their "dream jobs" should come with their eyes WIDE OPEN. Pilots are considered commodities.

[Alaska737]

There are labor laws in UAE, but you are correct that only the unscrupulous companies choose to ignore them.

You can follow many links here

UAE Labour Law (http://www.dubaifaqs.com/labour-law-uae.php)

The bigger they are the harder they fall! Eventually this stuff will bite them in the a*s!

[Jaboet]

Does FD reject applicants who have had an accident? I had a forced landing in a light aircraft a few years ago.

[Flipboard]

Mogadishu now, this has to stop right here. We need to tell the company that this is not ok..

[Alaska737]

Aden Adde International Airport in Mogadishu Relatively Safe - YouTube

[Ali Ronn]

Flipboard

What makes you think Mogadishu is on the cards?

[Flipboard]

It was informed on the last pilot meeting that they are looking into Mogadishu.