Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged

[NGFellow]

I know of a non-type rated pilot who passed the screening at CTC. He was called a week later for the final interview and starts class in a month. He lives in Dubai, and that might have sped things up.

[bluesaddict]

That's good news! When did he go through the screening process? I have been accepted for the screening process, but for this one they want type-rated pilots.
I hope they do one for non typed soon.

[NGFellow]

He attended the screening in November. He said they started with around 11 guys and ended up with 2-3 at the end of the day. I heard CTC may lose the contract to screen pilots for FD in 2013-2014.

[bluesaddict]

Then I hope they call soon!:)

[DucknDive]

Things are worse than ever. Its just like Flat Cap says, people lost the will to fight. What is there to fight for? They never listen anyway! Things never improve only getting worse month by month.
No point in complaining anymore, just get a new job. Thats whats going on with many in the company that I know including myself.

[dubaigong]

This is not exactly what is going on in Flydubai...
As Duckndive says some are looking for another job , some are gone already , BUT some are not at all looking for another job and even one as a minimum did not return to the previous company when call back...
So the reason why it is so quiet here now is maybe because most of the ones complaining are gone the remaining unhappy ones are in the process of leaving and the remaining mass found the package good enough to stay and stop complaining when they look around and see what else is available on the market...

[what-to-do]

Dubaigong..... it's been a while. Glad to see that you still have a knack of saying lots but hardly anything of any real substance.

So basically what you are saying is that some have left, some are leaving and some wish to stay...... I guess that's every company I have ever worked for.

FlatCap & DucknDive are probably more accurate in their account than you seem to realise.

[pole shift]

Another safe and exciting destination coming up fairly soon :uhoh:
5 airlines to operate from Sialkot | ePaper | DAWN.COM (http://epaper.dawn.com/~epaper/DetailImage.php?StoryImage=21_11_2012_009_002)
If you dont know where this place is, google it!:ok:

[Kollsman]

Hi all,

Attending interview in Dubai next week for first officer position.

Anyone with idea of what to expect and what the interviews are like in Dubai.

If its ok with you , please pm me direct .

Thanks

[Voodoo 3]

And for those that can't be bothered I'll save you the trouble.

It's midway between Islamabad and Lahore in the North east of the country near to Kashmir.

No real terrain around and the longest runway in Pakistan, so not all bad.

Another rumour doing the rounds is to ......Sarajevo

[bluesaddict]

Happy New Year everyone!!. Could someone,please, say how much the school allowance covers and wether they give you the money or do you present the payments?

Thanks!

[RandyBMC]

35,000AED primary, and 55,000AED secondary. You pay and present receipts, though you may be able to work with either the school or fz to have the money before you pay out of pocket.

It is enough for some schools, but most have raised tuition beyond that point, so you are out of pocket whatever the difference. It does not cover uniforms or transport.

I am out of pocket 13,000AED for secondary (and it is the same charge for primary, so it would be a lot more out of pocket for that age group) at a decent American curriculum school. There are much cheaper options, but most of the good schools will be at or above the allowance.

Those numbers are for each year.

Hope that helps!
Randy

[bluesaddict]

Thanks a lot Randy. My kids go to a british school, I hear these are cheaper. Do you know if it's true?
I have passed the screening process and now I have to book an event but I need to know the expenses before I make the move.
Thanks a lot for the help.:)

[dash8pilotCanada]

Anyone know how long you have to wait to reapply after an unsuccessful
interview at CTC??

[bailee atr]

6 months to reapply.

[RandyBMC]

Yes, they are slightly cheaper just because there are more of them. However, the good ones are still at or above the allowances. Take a look at a few, or if you have friends with kids in the schools you are considering, even better. Ask them! I know Repton and Wellington are both popular British schools. There are a bunch though.

Good luck!
Randy

[bluesaddict]

Thanks! I'll keep you guys posted.

[bluesaddict]

Another question: It says that the salary is based on 80hrs, do you fly aprox. those 80? more, less....

Thanks,

[RandyBMC]

We didn't used to, but lately we have been flying close to that or more. I'm not sure if it will remain that way. For the last two years, it was more like 65 hours.

Once you are low vis qualified, you end up with more of the long sectors and can rack up hours that way too.

Randy

[bluesaddict]

So as long as you don't fly the 80hrs you don't get the pay announced?
What percentage should I discount flying only 65hrs?

[bluesaddict]

BTW Randy, what's low vis qualified?? Isn't everyone?

[long-gonner]

FO flight pay is 110 AED per hour, so it would be about 1600 AED less than what's on the website. Base, housing, transportation, and allowances are independent of flight hour pay.

Low Vis qual requires a certain number of supervised approaches not in Cat 2/3 wx. As flydubai's training department has been understaffed, not all crews have performed the supervised approaches yet. And to be honest there is only about a half dozen cities we fly to, only two or three of which are the long Russia/East Eruo flights, that have Cat 2/3 runways. All low Vis qual really does it make it more difficult to swap flights, yeah as if it could get any more difficult :ugh:

[bluesaddict]

Ok, my bad. So you can count on (in my case) 7800Eur.

[bluesaddict]

By allowances do you mean medical insurance, personal accident.....or some other thing? In the case of insurances, do they give you the money or they provide you with the service?

[RandyBMC]

The housing and transportation allowances are all part of the package, but are broken out separately, along with basic salary. So, you have a basic salary, flight pay, transportation allowance, and housing allowance which make up your monthly paycheck. You then have your education allowance which as stated above is applied for independently.

If you have a couple of those Russian or long flights a month instead of a single Doha, Bahrain or Kuwait, it helps you get a lot closer to the 80 hours.

I think most have been nearer to the 80 hours lately with or without the low vis qualification. I have 82 hours this month plus my LPC (which is two sim sessions) so I will have a really good pay month. As I said though, you are not guaranteed anything for the month, so it can change (and has).

Randy

[bluesaddict]

Roger that!

Thanks.

[The Prophet of Truth]

Hi Guys,

Just an insight about pay: The max number of hours you can fly at Fz is 900 per year, well that is what it should be. I say should because our brilliant rostering team top us at 850, give or take. If you split 840 by 12 you will find your maximum average monthly flight pay around 70 hours block. So what FZ promises is not true and you cannot count on that. Take 10 hours flight pay (1100 Dhs for F/Os and 1600 for CA) out of the figures you have and them you will get the real deal: the lowest pay in the UAE!!! Sad but true..............One more thing: the housing and transportation allowances are a joke.....you cannot afford to buy, drive and keep (fuel, Salik, service, insurance...all you need to drive) a descent car with Dhs 1700 a month. The housing at 144k is absolute inadequate. Even the CA's housing of 168k is not enough anymore. EK and EY are hiring with way better conditions......just saying.......

[bluesaddict]

Shouldn't you divide the hours by 10 1/2 months? in the website it says 42 days vacation....

[long-gonner]

Nice catch blues:ok:. What several fail to realize, including our GED level scheduling team is that with 42 days of vacation, minimum 2 sim events, ground school, and lets say on average 6 sick calls a year, no one should reach 900 hours in a year. The fault lies with the company for allowing the schedules to built so inefficiently. Its tough to explain, but its a combination of total duty hours per week plus forcing days into a schedule that really don't fit. Hopefully we have seen the worst, but the next six months will be very telling. There are some though that have seen enough, and if they can they are leaving.

[bluesaddict]

I agree with you, Long-gonner. My company had me flying around 800hrs for a few years a while ago and almost killed me.....it meant about 17 nights out a month. To tell you guys the truth, the only thing that worries me about FZ is if the money is enough to pay for an apartment (villa if possible), school and all the expenses. I know you can spend all the money you want in Dubai but that's not my wife's and I mind-set, we want to have a decent life with our kids and go out with them every now and then and save money. Opportunities to upgrade I think has been answered before and I'm looking forward to face the rest if I can get a decent QOL.

[Old King Coal]

My flight totals during the last 3 years at FZ:

2010 = 797 (block) hours / 319 sectors.
2011 = 708 (block) hours / 256 sectors.
2012 = 822 (block) hours / 336 sectors.

plus 8 (paid) hours worth of obligatory simulator, once every 6 months.

... do the math!

[bluesaddict]

Thanks for the info!:ok:

[PT6Driver]

Can the education allowance be used for schools back home eg UK?

[Old King Coal]

PT6Driver: AFAIK, the answer to your question is "No".

That said, some of the original joiners (aka, the 'A' scalers) were, and / or are, able to claim for education fees that occur outside of the UAE, however I'm led to understand that FZ's Employment Contract now states that the education allowance will only be (re)paid for education that takes place within the UAE (and subject to proof of receipts as such). Basically the powers that be want to keep the money within the UAE.

[bluesaddict]

What are the A scalers?

[The Prophet of Truth]

Hi, just answering....no I divided 840 by 12 because that is the average of what you are going to get. During your annual leave you won't get ANY flight pay. So there will be months when you are going to get 90 hs flight pay and some others when you will get 0, 20, 50....depending on how you bid your leaves. Average around the year is 70 or less. There are MANY pay scales in Fz. A scales are the pilots who joined during the 1st year and they get Dhs 6000 more than everyone else. Them comes the rest with just small differences on the basic.....not much. A scale pilots get a decent amount of money, but B and C should be looking somewhere else. There were promises that eventually we all would get on the A scale, but after almost 4 years and no changes is quite obvious that is just another fallacy to keep people around.

[Old King Coal]

The 'A' scalers are the group of pilots who joined right at (or even before) flydubai started operating flights, and therein their Contract of Employment is slightly different to that which has since been offered, and / or is presently being offered.
E.g. the Contract of Employment, as offered to the 'A' scalers, provides a higher basic salary + higher allowances (to say nothing of a less restrictive policy wrt the 'education allowance'), i.e. when compared to what has subsequently been offered to those whom have joined at a later date and, all in all, it reflects flydubai having revised its T&C's downwards. :(

I should add (hence the edit) that the 'A' scalers now represent just a small percentage (10% & diminishing ?) of FZ's total pilot cadre.... and yes I am an 'A' scaler. :O

[bluesaddict]

Well Old King, you also took a risk.....No embarrasment needed:ok:

[bluesaddict]

thanks for the info on the A scalers guys. :ok:

[Old King Coal]

PT6Driver: Every month (regardless of being on leave or not) you will get paid the following:

Basic Salary
Housing Allowance
Transport Allowance
Education Allowance - subject to the proviso of your child(ren) being educated within the UAE.

If you have been flying you will also get paid (monthly in arrears):

'Flight Pay' at either 160 Dhs per block hour (Captain), or 110 Dhs per block hour (F/O).

Nb. In simple terms a 'block hour' (or part thereof) is defined as the time difference between the park brake being released at the beginning of a sector, and the park brake being applied at the end of the sector.

Also, every time you go to the simulator, you will receive 4 hours of 'Flight Pay' at the rate respective to your rank (see above) per session, regardless of how long or short the session is.

E.g. If you were flying during October then you would receive the relevant number of block hours rate (based on your rank) worth of 'flight pay' in your end of November salary, along with amounts for 1+2+3+4.

Conversely, if you were on leave during the whole of October then you wouldn't have accrued any 'flight pay' and so your salary (for the end of November) would only consist of amounts for 1+2+3+4.

Just to be clear. The salary is normally paid on the 26th of each month, and 'flight pay' is paid monthly in arrears (i.e. added into ones pay in the following month).

Just to complete the picture; Some of you might have heard that the UAE has something called an 'End of Service Gratuity', and which UAE based employers are required to pay as follows, i.e. when one eventually leaves / resign:

21 days worth of ones daily rate of remuneration, for each year of the first five years of service.
30 days worth of ones daily rate of remuneration, for each additional year of service provided that the aggregate amount of severance pay shall not exceed two years remuneration.

Nb. When determining ones 'daily rate of remuneration' for this purpose, this is based upon ones Basic Salary(1) only, and it does not include ones 'Allowances'(2+3+4) or averaged 'Flight Pay'.

Do the math !

[bluesaddict]

Same thing in my company.

[chinny]

can you confirm that IS the case with the educ allowance-makes a big difference:sad:

[jkd_01]

Hey guys just got through the screening process, any guys done the assessment recently who are type rated, what's the story with the Sim check?

[Kabul 1]

The slightly difference is
Aed 2000,00 per month in car allowance plus Aed 24000,00 per year in house allowance pmus the basic salary difference
It means a slightly difference of AED 48000,00 more to the A scale, not including the salary difference
Slightly......
And all first officers that arrived at that time and upgraded
They are receiving the A scale:=

[dubaigong]

Kabul1

This is the case in many airlines now , there are different type of contract depending when you have joined the company.
What you have to look at is what has been offered to you when you apply and if you get what you have signed for , you should not look at what other are getting.
If you were not happy with the conditions you shouldn't have signed your contract.
And as said by somebody else , the A scale pilots joined before the company even started flying which was a serious risk...
I see people complaining but what are they doing about it ?
I don't see any big reaction in the company except a very small group of pilots ( always the same ) raising their voice.
If you want things to change , join them and this will increase the number which may push the management to act.
Of course it takes more to act to change things than to moan on pprune...

[RandyBMC]

Actually, the difference is more like 75000AED per year from A-scale Captain to B-scale Captain. The FOs that joined on A-scale then upgraded do in fact go to the A-scale for Captain. Fair enough - or it wouldn't be too much of a raise from A-scale FO to B-scale Captain! They joined under those terms. I also never want to see anyone pulled down - we should all just be raised. In other words, be happy that the guys on A-scale have what they have, just wish for it and ask for it for all, as precedent exists.

That said, I am not an A-scaler (but certainly wish I was!).

[DucknDive]

So the sporting/hunting rifles we carry in the hold turned out to be 2 tons of automatic weapons in the hold to ........ without proper overflight permits. Nice! Knew I could trust the security department :ugh:

[doubletap]

....think you'll find most of the 'risk takers' were unemployed XL pilots or on furlough from the US, more like 'no-choice takers'. We all took a risk joining the company, more so once the inaugural chaps/chapesses built their 'training' empires & didn't have to fly to some of the more exotic destinations.....for whatever reason.

[dubaigong]

Doubletap,

Your comments about the first group of pilots who joined Flydubai are totally unfair and inappropriate at least for most of them.
I guess it is just jealousy...
It shows obviously that you don't know them personally and that you must have joined quite recently.
As far as I know there were only 1 or 2 pilots who have been able to avoid the " unwanted flights to Afghanistan " and this is now over.
You should take more time to gather your information and think twice before expressing an opinion about others ( remember " D.O.D.A.R." , it is not only for aviation )
Read what Randy BMC has said above and keep your anger for the right fight.

[what-to-do]

Dubaigong

Easy fella, getting back to your ranting old ways. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

As for DODAR, is that a bird?

:O

[The Prophet of Truth]

Actually, Doubletap is right. Half of the A scalers were unemployed when they came here. Besides....what risk? This company was supported by EK and UAE government. It was not a 4 airplanes low cost in Asia......they walked into Boeing's office and bought 56 aircrafts.....risk? Risk of what? Become a trainer? Chief pilot? Head of something? Sorry, but there was no risk! It is just one of the endless excuses (we are a low cost, we are a new airline, bla bla bla) fz uses to to denny any package upgrade to the pilot group (I almost forgot, they gave us Dhs 10.00 per block....how nice...). Besides many pilots were offered A scale during their assessment in fz, and months latter (after they resigned from their jobs) fz offered B scale only. Very, Very fair.....don't take me wrong, with all things that should be improved fz is still a ok job.....but they should make things right to everyone: same package, insurance, profit share and last but not least ROSTER. But, as dubaigong said, it will take more than just moan on PPrune to get things changed.....:(

[long-gonner]

And so what that the "A" scale pilots were available at the right time to sign the contract flydubai was offering? Why imply that there were no other options for those guys? Most were long time training Captains, some had 1k's of wide body experience, and one had even been director of training at his last airline. By accepting the job at flydubai and not accepting other jobs, they were in fact taking a calculated risk. Moving your family to a country in the Middle East is a risk! You are absolutely correct that those first B scale guys that interviewed and accepted the job on the "A" T&C's should not have been treated the way they were. What I don't get is blaming anyone in the pilot group for the company's (very wrong) decision to reduce the pay. Stop implying that senior management came to the A pilots and said "hey, how would you feel if we cut the new guys pay 10%?" Hopefully this will get addressed, but unless applications stop coming I doubt the company will budge. More importantly though, as OKC said its about 10% of the group on A now with the number dropping. That makes increasing the B scale to the A scale less likely. Probably at some point a longevity scale will have to be introduced for basic salary, but the allowances probably won't increase much.

[Old King Coal]

Wrt the subsequent 'scales', I recall that - when we got wind of it - some of us 'A' scalers proposed & were willing to forgo any increase in our own T&C's, if that'd mean that there'd be no 'B' scale... well you can go figure how successful was that suggestion?! (but, nonetheless, we tried)

Ah well, two buckets (aka Hertzberg's Theory of Motivation (http://tinyurl.com/4ts522a)) !

[jkd_01]

Has anyone been to Dubai for the assessment? If so any info? Is it the same things you have to do at ctc?

[Bengu]

Hi,

Some questions about Flydubai!
Minimum for non type rated are 2500 hours total time and 1000 hours on aircraft over 10 tonnes, are some guys selected with that minimum or all non type rated guys are way way more experienced ? Or type rated pilots are so many to apply that only a few guys without TR are selected?

Besides what is the ratio between the selected pilots? ( between guys without TR and guys coming with a TR?)

Thanks

[bluesaddict]

Does anyone know if FZ takes care of the expenses to stay in Dubai during the screening process?

[JackN]

Chaps,

Coming to this thread with no real knowledge of FZ at all, however with the current tax situation in FR, I am looking around at what might be an option in the near future. The salary advertised on the FZ website is very tempting, regardless of what it is for the original joiners. I was wondering if anybody can let me know how much of that is made up of basic salary, and how much is dependent on flight pay? I'd also be interested to know the roster pattern or, if there are different patterns for different guys, what I could expect if I joined in the next few months.

Many thanks for your help.

[VOYAGER12]

JackN.

Well, here is an idea..... why not read the previous posts for all you need to know. Not exactly rocket science.

[Flat Cap]

Have a look at page 48 or thereabouts, full discussion on it there. Other than a 10 dirham an hour flight pay raise, its all still correct.

[Specialised]

Hi Gents,
I am preparing for the CTC assessment and have looked through the whole thread and was hoping someone might be able to advise me of any changes or more up to date info regarding the days of assessment for FlyDubai.
I would be very grateful!
Thanks and hope to meet you there!

[flydream1982]

Hi,

Some questions about Flydubai!
Minimum for non type rated are 2500 hours total time and 1000 hours on aircraft over 10 tonnes, are some guys selected with that minimum or all non type rated guys are way way more experienced ? Or type rated pilots are so many to apply that only a few guys without TR are selected?

Besides what is the ratio between the selected pilots? ( between guys without TR and guys coming with a TR?)

Thanks


I'd be interested to know that too.

[speedhold]

I applied to fly dubai well over a year ago and still no response . When I logged in to cbeck the status its say awaiting decision. How long does it take to get a call for a interview. I dont have a 737 type . Times are 4200 2800 jet emb 145 crj 200 atp

[fly82]

Hi speedhold, I´m tt 5500 with +- 3000h on erj 145 and after waiting 2 years I just got an email telling me that I didn´t make the cut...

[ironbird123]

Dont feel bad fellows, i have 3000+ tt with 737ng type and time and nothing at all.

[maxalphaboy]

To all those, who have not yet heard replies.

Just a heads up that the possible reason may be that the current head of recruitment has resigned, quit or suitable alternative!

Therefore the position is being temporarily filled, and it is a very small department considering the rate of expansion. 2/3 people managing 1800 staff.

The company is running at the bare minimum of pilots IMHO. So there is and still will be a requirement for pilots now and in the future.

Just yesterday I was having an informal chat with a colleague who confirmed that 6 more 737NG's are coming asap and the remainder of the order to take the fleet to 50 will be honoured by the end of the year. Currently the fleet stands at 26/28 not sure of specifics.

Also I am pretty sure there is going to be a review of the recruitment procedure and the use of CTC, as again IMHO they have not delivered the best results.

All I would say to those who have applied is, keep updating your details, for those that are rated, keep current. Those Non Rated, dont lose hope the company will continue to recruit Non TR, as they have been very pleased with the standard of those new to type, hired from Aer Arran, flybe and Air Southwest.

I am not in a management position or based in FZ head office, Im just a humble servant who "monitors the situation" from the inside.

MAB :ok:

[Iakovos]

Thanks for the info MAB. Appreciate it.

[ualgrizz]

6 more airplanes with Emirates gazillion more...and we are headed for a one year operation with single runway as they resurface the other. Hmmm....how is that going to work??

[cccc1]

I'll go to CTC soon as well, as a non type-rated FO.
In the middle of gathering as much info as possible to prepare for the CTC assessment.
Cheers to you all!!

[B787J]

Max --- not all you say checks out :ugh:... Airline operates on the minimum crew required as per our ops .. You know you work for a LCC don't you ?

All the others that haven't heard I suggest that you email CTC and inquire , I hear that there is a lot of activity going on at the moment ... You wouldn't want to miss out ? Hiring both TR n NTR

[chinny]

Hi guys.
CTC- the post by rkramer787 on page 75 is pretty close to the mark(90%) in my case.all pretty much as said happened.
The intvw in Dxb was straight forward and followed similar lines to intvw at CTC-one pilot and one hr guy-both lovely chaps and straight talking.Medical in Shj was fun-NOT-just hassle.heard from them pretty quick afterwards and am embroiled now.
t and c's are pretty much as in previous posts-certainly not the worst out there and COULD always be improved on:ok:.

any other direct q's then pse pm me and will try to help.biggest thing be yourself as nvr had clue at any stage what they were looking for or how assessment was progressing.the FD team have experience of intvw and will suss u out if not being straight.

good luck.:ok:

[flyer19832007]

Just a few questions, perhaps more suited to those who have just gone through selection/been employed or for those just about to go through selection at CTC

1- does anyone know how often assessments happen at CTC/Dubai for FZ?
2- how long from application did it take for CTC to get back to you for an assessment?

(I am fully aware some haven't heard anything for a long time)

3- For those with assessments coming up- what is your experience levels?
4- Were you employed/current at the time?

Just trying to gauge a general timeframe of events, although I am under no illusion that everyone's experience is the same as I know everyone's circumstances are different!

Thanks in advance,

Flyer.

[jkd_01]

Hey flyer

I heard back in about 2-3 weeks. I'm due to go to assessment at the end of the month I have 1850 on type 2000 total currently employed

[flyer19832007]

jkd

Thanks for the reply, good to know it can happen quite quickly, good luck with your assessment.

Flyer

[guasty]

Hi guys,

anybody knows how long does it take to have the first response about the screening process?

Tanks guys!

[Mrglass]

Anybody have any pointers on 're-applying' - I threw my info on the app website before I had the 3000/1000 for a non typed pilot, it subsequently did not make the cut.

I now have more that the required mins and live, work and fly in the UAE - but can't see how to 'reapply'. My application just appears to be a:
"...previous and now in-active application"

Any tips? Or do I have to start an entirely new application?

Any FD pilots in Abu Dhabi want a few free beers? All it will cost is information. PM me and let me know!

Thanks

[TakeItEasy]

Could anyone give a quick statement of the FZ philosophy of hand flying the aircraft? Many thanx in advance

[jimmyg]

P2Prep, P2Interview, P2Fly.... where does it end?:ugh:

[RandyBMC]

From our supplementary SOPs (1.6.1):

When traffic and workload are light, hand flying is encouraged to maintain proficient flying skills.

I hand fly often on climb-out and descent. It is all dependent on the situation.

Hope that helps,
Randy

[1975]

Hello there.

My application has been approved some while ago for the assessment at CTC. Does anyone have any info on how many are hired vs the ones that start the CTC assessment? I am non- type rated with 4000 hours Fokker 50 turboprop co-pilot time.

Are Flydubai only recruiting via CTC or by other means as well?

Regards

1975

[TakeItEasy]

Randy, Thank you very much!

That helps a lot. I consider to apply to FZ. However, I would never work for an Airline that prohibits hand flying. Thanx a lot!

[dum dum pacheco]

Hello sirs,
Is there any cost to apply for flydubai?

[dum dum pacheco]

150£ to apply?

[jimmyg]

From what I understand, you must pay your travel and expenses to the interview with CTC in London. Sure sounds like a pay to interview.

Correct if if I am wrong.

[dubaigong]

No , you are not wrong it is a cost.
What is true though is that some pilots came to Dubai , passed all the tests , have been offered a job and decided not to join...
So after that the company decided to change the process.
Can we blame them ?
There are a few guys applying to different companies in the Middle East going to the interview ( when it is free ) and then pick the one that suits them the most...
Is it really fair ? I let you decide BUT all I know is that if it was your company and your money , you will be upset.
The same thing happened years ago with type ratings , I have never been asked to pay for any type rating until recently and during my career I have seen more and more pilot joining a company to get a type rating with 500 Hrs and then leaving to join the company they wanted to but requiring to be type rated with some Hrs on type.
So now more and more companies require us to sign a bond , or to pay for the rating or to stay a certain number of years...
Can we blame them or should we blame ourselves ?

[jimmyg]

Yes of course I do see the point but find the logic hard to swallow.

I think that to punish the masses for the mistakes of the few, is a weak argument and supplies the onus for companies to pass costs along to employees, rather than building expenses into the cost of doing business. This is an easy solution of weak management with a unstable business structure. My point is that in the aviation business it is becoming an systemic disease of having your employees bear more and more of the expenses.

Having spent a good deal of my aviation career in a management position, I have witness this first hand. It is most especially prevalent within the M.E. Endless meetings talking about how many angles can dance on the head of a needle or number of grains of sand, rather than looking at removing the boulders in the center of the road. Eventually which will lead to the demise of anyone who questions the relevance or upset the power struggle those who try so hard to maintain their power circle. I have grown weary of mangers whose first line of defense to to cut from their workforce. The long term damage this has caused is one of the reasons for such a high level of transient workers in the first place.

Post script: Sorry I digress, just have to let it fly every once in a while. Now back to more capitulation.:rolleyes:

[spanishfly69]

jimmyg, Do not blame management, blame the pilots that accept it.
As pilots, we are our worst enemies...

[jkd_01]

Just back from selection however I wasn't successful at the interview stage. We only did the multi capacity test on the pilapt and the group activities mentioned in previous posts.

They will tell you a story how they would like everyone to pass BULL****. it isn't the case we were 7 and only 4 got to the interview then 3 to the sim ts always been like that with ctc
I don't feel ctc represent fly dubai needs well. I have done ctc selection before and not passed the interview I don't know what they look for? I really felt I interviewed well prepared good answers, but you know you are not being interviewed by a pilot so sometimes I got the impression they not have a clue what I was talking about .
I have 2000 hours on type currently employed, also 2 other guys were type rated none of us got though

The thing the gets me is your trying for position to be a pilot so that should one of the first things should be tested but obviously they rather have someone who interviews well and fits a personality they are looking for. Maybe I was a bit too relaxed or didn't beg for it enough lol

Finally they asked for me to reapply in 6 months yet they don't give u any feedback whats the point you don't know what your mistakes are so how do you improve your answers ? Which answers didn't they like? Anyways hope u guys have better luck than me

[Iver]

Sorry to hear that jkd 01. Perhaps a mixed blessing for you. If going to the Gulf, I would focus on the big 3 with EK being the clear #1 choice. Get more 737NG time and then throw your hat into the EK ring. :cool::cool::cool:

[what-to-do]

I agree with Iver!

FZ is still finding it impossible to control the rostering issues that have been very apparent for three years now. Senior management are claiming that they know nothing of any concerns over rostering and are asking for feedback on the subject. :D

My question is 'what have the current and previous chief and deputy chief pilots been doing in this time'? My assumption would be that they feed serious issues such as fatigue inducing rostering up the chain of command in the hope that action could be taken to reduce the impact of such poor rostering, which it is!

FZ had moved away from a rather silly and fatigue inducing 5 on 2 off roster, which doesn't sound too bad, but when you have night shifts and day shifts in the 5 days, it is unbearable. We now see that this type of rostering is now back, and, adding insult to injury, we now have single days off with an early start the next day that requires an early night! :ugh:

One only has to read OM-A to see that we are running rough shot over our FTL Scheme, which lets face it, is there to protect pilots and crew from the dangers of fatigue.

Be mindful of this fact when considering FZ......

[jkd_01]

Maybe it is a blessing in disguise then :)

[gio2]

I'm considering join FZ, and in need of infos.
From previous posts I learned of about 7-800 hours/y with 250-330 legs. But roster are 5-2. With 2 sectors a day it takes 170 days to fly 340 legs, +leaves + sims and class there should still be room to the 365 days a year.
2-5 makes around 20 days per month, times 10,5 = 210 working days
What is that I don't understand?

One more question: there's any kind of reserve days (when you are at home ready on call?)

Many Thanks

[Echo_Kilo]

Hi,

anyone recently been invited with low hours, hence towards the min. required hours.
At the current I do have about 1500 and a bit TT and 550 on type(NG)

[jimmyg]

Does all this not speak volumes to you?

[Toastal]

Guys, with the current mass recruitment through CTC en all, roughly what will be the time frame to command as a new joiner F/O meeting the requirements within 1&1/2 yrs? What is the format for upgrade? A lot of guys on here saying it is a ridiculous process.


T:suspect:

[BurDubaiBob]

Toastal: The flydubai Command upgrade process is necessarily rigorous. It is a process which is not to be underestimated, or taken as a 'right', and just because someone has such & such hours, or has been in the company for certain period, does not guarantee a pass, as some F/O's have found out!

flydubais original order was for 50 aircraft and so far they have taken delivery of 30 of those. That said, the initial 2 aircraft were (sub)leased out of the fleet in 2011 - which means that, today, flydubai operates a fleet of 28 aircraft. Now depending upon how you slice it up, and assuming that no more aircraft are ordered, that leaves either 20 or 22 aircraft still yet to be delivered from that initial order.

By my reckoning there are presently 150 First Officers already in flydubai. If, say, 6x F/O's are required to upgrade, in order to supply enough Captains for each additional new aircraft, that means that there are already enough F/O's in place to fulfil the Command requirement for all the aircraft yet to be delivered from that initial order, and if flydubai take on Direct Entry Captains it would only make matters worse for F/O upgrades! Now unless something changes, eg. a lot of Captains decide to leave, or flydubai order more aircraft, or a lot of the present F/O's fail their upgrade, any new-join F/O can expect to sit a very long time in the RHS. And the longer you leave it to join, the worse it gets.

It is suggested that flydubai will take 6 new aircraft this year (2013) and which would require, say, 36 F/O's to be upgraded to Captain in order to crew these aircraft in the LHS - which leaves approx 114 F/O's still waiting for their chance.

There will, inevitably, come a point when new-hire F/O's are effectively seat-locked by a lack of growth in the company and or lack of leavers from the LHS, and it might be said that that point has already been reached?!

Just do the math !

[bluesaddict]

Budget carrier flydubai in talks for 50 aircraft order - chairman | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/13/dubai-flydubai-idUSL5N0BD2JP20130213)

[dum dum pacheco]

Do they ask technical questions during the interview? Or at any phase?

[bluesaddict]

Hi guys! I just booked with Flydubai for the interview in Dubai on the 27th. Any advice on where to stay and how to get to Flydubai HQ?

Thanks!

[long-gonner]

Taxi is best way to get around Dubai. Cheap and plentiful. Ask the hotel to book one for you in the morning if it makes you feel better.

Hotels. Plenty to choose from within 10 minutes of the airport. Back in the day when flydubai paid for the hotel we stayed at the Samaya Hotel Deira. Breakfast was excellent and on a quiet street. Another option would be to stay at the Pullman Hotel at City centre mall. A few people I've met stayed at the Premier Inn Dubai Airport. Only thing about the PI is that it is on a busy road, don't know how quiet it would be during the night. Doesn't matter where you stay as you can always take a taxi to any place in the city.

[long-gonner]

Rosters are random. Seems like every month they invent new ways to make us more fatigued and angry. March madness includes single days off between changing from night patterns to day flights. Single days off also completely disable the ability to trip trade. Days off usually no more than 8 or sometimes 10. Even if you have 10 on your roster it really isn't 10. You will be scheduled to end your duty late on the last day, and then after two days off you will start at 6am for a week of early AM reports. You can request two specific days off in a month, but those are not guaranteed.

I agree with Bobs logic on upgrades, but if quality of life issues are not addressed you will see attrition increase. That will leave lots of empty seats to be filled.

[gearupflapsupshutup]

guy and galls,

I am trying really hard to make up my mind. But need some help from people with kids in Dubai.
If I join you earn about 35000 a month. Thats maybe a lot in dollars but does it cover the cost of basic living, ie.12 eggs a week 12pints of milk, commuting car, family car...and so forth..

Now I have got 3 kids, but don't like to spend more than 150000 on rent.
When the houses are advertised as +maids room can I count this as an extra usable bedroom?

Does the school allowance cover a descent British school?

I just need someone who can put this in plain english if it is worth the move...
I am at the mo half the salary in the UK...

[Sciolistes]

gearupflapsupshutup,

The extra maids room can be used as a bedroom, certainly in Arabian Ranches Al Reem (the 'cheap' houses), the maids room is about the same size as either of the kids rooms upstairs. I would at least take a look at the less fashionable areas like Mirdiff, Jumeirah Village Triangle, etc for cheaper options too. The agencies are now putting up properties here for 170,000/yr when previously they were around 140,000/yr. A 30,000/yr increase. That is a big whack, plus the 5% agent fee plus the 5% deposit.

If any of your kids are in secondary school, the education allowance does not cover the cost of schooling here. You'll be looking at around 5000 AED+ per year/per secondary school kid increasing with age. That is for a very good and long standing not for profit school, I'd guess GEMs et al are going to be more. School fees going up 5-10% too.

Long and short. Moving and living in Dubai is expensive. You earn more than you would in the UK (or wherever), but it just plain costs more too. From the expected cars, furniture, rent to the unexpected cost of some basic items, fees, tolls, fines and moving expenses due landlord issues...it just plain costs. Don't expect to save much in the first couple of years.

The company has said they are looking into rent and school fee increases, hopefully there will be some good news on that soon.

[gearupflapsupshutup]

I can't find the info about pay scales after year one, do they go up or is it just the one scale?

[ABBOT]

My kids are about old enough to be looking after the parents now, but I am hearing that the education allowance pays for around ten or eleven months of the years education depending on school.

Housing, rents are on the up. Owners are being contacted by agents now offering increased rent deals. A three bed plus maid in the Al Reems is now up to AED 180,000 for lakeside, 170,000 for parkside and 160,000 for a back to back. Electricity and water adding up to an average of 1,500 per month. You are responsible for repairs, so maintainable contract between 4,000 and 6,000 per annum.

Cars, take ex- vat euro price for new purchase for new items. Finance at around 2.5. %. Deposit 20%. Some lower deposit deals around for less in demand models.

I monitor cost of living fairly closely, my database showing 21% rid over last 33 months. For foodstuffs, over all, about euro price plus 28%.

Drink, EPC discount price for budget wine per bottle AED 35. 3 litre box AED 80, 24 tins of beer, AED 150 & a brand name bottle AED 120.

Petrol AED 172 per litre. Car insurance AED 4,000 per Annum, registration and odd fine budget AEd 3,600 per Annum.

Staff travel with EK can be trick on popular routes, watch out for high cargo figures on what look like lightly loaded destinations. EK cargo takes precedence over FZ staff.

Living, horses for courses. I am very much into diving, desert driving, camping, hiking, climbing, etc. so get on well here. Fortunately my family have similar interests and also thrive.

Can get a little warm in the summer, so watch out if you are a cold blood.

UAE and Oman are very liberal Islamic states. Qatar, Saudi and Kuwait somewhat less so. Bahrain is in the middle these days.

So, living can be good if you the environment suites you. Costly, in the early stages with a minimal relocation allowance definitely yes! I transferred 60,000 Euros across to ease the transition.

Hope this helps.

[Non rev]

Hey guys, applied at flydubai yesterday and with in 24 hours I received an email to schedule for my assessment. I will be attending the assessment here in Miami. Anyone else for states attending it? My qualifications are, I am regional pilot at 2500 total time with no Ng experience.

[LNAV737]

Hi guys ! I just got an e-mail to book my date for CTC.I just need your opinion after reading all of this and talking with some people who attended assessment already.Is it really worth it going to the assessment when we all know that out of 8 people no matter what their qualites are only 2 or 3 will be called for the sim...and 2 or just 1 will go to the final stage ? :suspect:It was the same with Wizz Air 21 people 12 went for the sim session 4 got offers....:* On the other hand it would be stupid not to give it a try ....except candidate needs to arrange travel and accomodation...i wouldn't mind that if i was employed in Europe but traveling from Asia ...hmmmm ! :confused:

Thanks guys and best of luck to all of you

[Non rev]

^^^^^^:ugh:

[jimmyg]

FlyDubai must love this!

People salivating paying to travel half way around the world for a chance for a first interview:ugh:

Mark my words, once they get you, next is a reductions in salary, rosters and quality of life.

There was a time when contract work was a financial rewarding option.

Just say no! only we can stop the insane denigration to our profession.

[Guided accordingly]

Just wonder does any one applying to flydubai actually ever read anything the guys who work here write ?

F/os can make around 39000 AED's per month (was in yesterdays Arabian Business press )

It sounds great converted into your own currency, however, unless you are a single guy living in a small apartment here you will struggle to save anything.


Married & 2 children ? A different story....

1 The housing allowance no longer covers a decent family house in a decent area. ( by decent I mean not a construction site )

2 The education allowance does not fully cover education. finding places in schools is a challenge, Flydubai have priority at GEMS group schools, however the fees start about 15- 20k (per child) MORE than the allowance provided.

3 Petrol and cars are relatively cheap, however with children you will need two cars

4 Food 10 - 30 % more expensive depending on where you come from.

Lots of hidden costs setting up here. A new arrival pays for UAE ID cards ( you and dependants) , Deposits for Phone, Water, Electricity, Cars, Driving licences, Housing deposits. I arrived here with just over 16,000 euros to help cover set up costs.

With the rising cost of living here (rents up over 25% during last 12 months) you really have to think how you want to live here and for how long.

Bear in mind also there is no pension system in UAE, you will have to make your provisions elsewhere, with no contributions from the company.

If you are thinking of coming to UAE longer term consider EK or EY the packages are more realistic and aimed at retaining pilots longer term. EK FO 44 k per month. EK 35k but Housing and bills covered by EK.

Flydubai has become a stepping stone for many, but beware if you come here moving to EK/EY will not be possible for minimum of 3 years. ( local agreement)

Life can be good in Dubai, but there are many things to be aware of before making such a commitment. Good luck.

[Cowtown]

Just to give a realistic income for an EK F/O. Four plus years with kids at school I've never cleared more than 28k on a normal month. Not complaining, just giving it as it is. Long term EK would still be the obvious choice. Everything is on the up in Dubai. As always it's as good or bad as you want it to be!

[bluesaddict]

Just wonder does any one applying to flydubai actually ever read anything the guys who work here write ?

F/os can make around 39000 AED's per month (was in yesterdays Arabian Business press )

It sounds great converted into your own currency, however, unless you are a single guy living in a small apartment here you will struggle to save anything.

Married & 2 children ? A different story....

1 The housing allowance no longer covers a decent family house in a decent area. ( by decent I mean not a construction site )

2 The education allowance does not fully cover education. finding places in schools is a challenge, Flydubai have priority at GEMS group schools, however the fees start about 15- 20k (per child) MORE than the allowance provided.

3 Petrol and cars are relatively cheap, however with children you will need two cars

4 Food 10 - 30 % more expensive depending on where you come from.

Lots of hidden costs setting up here. A new arrival pays for UAE ID cards ( you and dependants) , Deposits for Phone, Water, Electricity, Cars, Driving licences, Housing deposits. I arrived here with just over 16,000 euros to help cover set up costs.

With the rising cost of living here (rents up over 25% during last 12 months) you really have to think how you want to live here and for how long.

Bear in mind also there is no pension system in UAE, you will have to make your provisions elsewhere, with no contributions from the company.

If you are thinking of coming to UAE longer term consider EK or EY the packages are more realistic and aimed at retaining pilots longer term. EK FO 44 k per month. EK 35k but Housing and bills covered by EK.

Flydubai has become a stepping stone for many, but beware if you come here moving to EK/EY will not be possible for minimum of 3 years. ( local agreement)

Life can be good in Dubai, but there are many things to be aware of before making such a commitment. Good luck.

Thanks for the info, is it that bad? I'm married with two kids, would I be able to save some money?

[bluesaddict]

Bluesaddict - What Guided Accordingly wrote is pretty much on the ball. Rents here are rocketing and so far the company has made no commitment to keeping up with the increasing cost of living. There is no structure in place for pay increases so you can't even forecast future earnings.

From a purely financial standpoint, would I come here today with what is on offer elsewhere? No. Whilst the headline salary looks enticing, if you end up shelling out most of it just to exist here then I can't really see the point. Will you save money bringing your family here? As a DEC, perhaps if you are very careful but as an FO, not a chance. Whilst EK isn't a bed of roses either, the overall package is certainly well ahead of fd. If you want to come to the sandpit I'd look at EK/EY first.

Actually I'm going next week for the assessment with FZ in Dubai, I'm going for a FO position.......

[Guided accordingly]

Thanks for the correction Cowtown.

I know the EY figure is correct, but the EK one was 3rd / 4th hand.

So, we've established that an EK f/o takes home 28k per month.

The BIG difference between EK and FZ/EY is that EK housing and utility bills are covered by the company, so in effect you are protected from the volatile rental market (not to mention landlords and agents) and the worry that you might have to move at the end of the tenancy contract, etc.

To rent a typical EK family house at DSO at current prices will be around 180 - 200K per year, plus about 27K Util (dewa) bills. So it figures the EK housing package is worth around 207 to 227 per year. (at current, rising prices)

FZ F/o earns 39K total.

Part of the 39K is the Rent allowance of 12k per month, 144 k Per year.

Now figure this is supposed to cover rent. Add to this 5 % (of your rent) in municipality tax, Dewa (elec and water) bills for a small medium family villa budget at least 20K per year.

The average small family house on arabian ranches is now 160K for rent alone. The asking for the smallest ( A1) villa on villa project is 170K Same story at DSO. JVT is cheaper but under construction, when complete (12/18 months) the prices will be hiked same as the rest

With prices rising and no real guidance or structure to future pay or allowances at Flydubai, its a tough call to make.

Its better than being out of work, but an FO with a family is unlikely to save any money here.

[Guided accordingly]

Blues addict.

Not saying its all bad. It depends on what you're expecting.

In money terms, I think most will agree an FO with a family will not have much money ( if any) left at the end of the month.

As mentioned above, the crux of the problem is that rents (and other costs ) here have rocketed in the last 12 months, but the pay has not. There is no incremental pay scale here, no yearly pay rise, so who knows where we'll be in 3 years.

In true Dubai style Rents are projected to rise even further, so its difficult to know what you're committing to.

I hear that the company has been ''looking'' at the housing allowance issue for a few months, but no one is really expecting any imminent change. (maybe if we cancel flights due lack of crew!)

Consider delaying your start date.... theres probably a property crash due in about 18 months :sad:

[Cowtown]

As is rightly mentioned, we are fairly well protected while we are in EK accommodation. What we see at the end of the month is our pocket money. If you are inclined to take on additional roles, SFI etc, then you can add another 5k+ to the equation. Saying that EK recently demonstrated their ability to change things at a drop of a hat by telling 7 SFI's they were no longer needed. Good luck to all with your choices....

[bluesaddict]

Is it possible to delay the arrival, if you make it?

[Non rev]

They may be low time, but are still qualified. May be they want mix of high time and low time guys. No one knows the logic.

[dubaigong]

another reason may be that they prefer less qualified pilots as they are easier to keep longer that the more qualified ones.
Don't forget that once you are here and you realize that EK is there with better conditions , you may leave to join them and for that the minimum experience requirement is higher than for FZ...
We have already lost quite a good number of pilots with a lot of experience going to EK or other long haul carrier....

[bluesaddict]

another reason may be that they prefer less qualified pilots as they are easier to keep longer that the more qualified ones.
Don't forget that once you are here and you realize that EK is there with better conditions , you may leave to join them and for that the minimum experience requirement is higher than for FZ...
We have already lost quite a good number of pilots with a lot of experience going to EK or other long haul carrier....

Is it asker to move to EK from FZ?

[dubaigong]

It is just what it is , a possible explanation to rpmranger's question.
The rest is just a question personal of preferences and career planning.....

[what-to-do]

Don't be too despondent, count it as a blessing in disguise! The rosters here are diabolical and extremely fatigue inducing..... and have been for the last three years.

Beats me why people are still applying, when scrolling back through this thread reveals a rather unhappy pilot fraternity.

Unless your out of work and need to pay the bills - avoid this place! Emirates or Etihad would be more suitable. Remember though, once at Flydubai you're handcuffed for three years with regard to jumping ship to another UAE carrier. So if you come here and don't like it, you're stuck. That won't be mentioned in the interview by the way.

Good luck with the job search.

[ironbird123]

Guys, I have read and understand your grief at flydubai, but I really don't think it is as bad as some other places, BELIEVE me on that one. I would like to understand something however, understanding how CTC conduct their interviews and their end results, for them to be going to America to conduct interviews and assessments and to see how much advertising going on for the said dates, IS SOMETHING REALLY SIGNIFICANT GOING ON AT FLY DUBAI? Why the sudden need to do road shows? How many pilots are they looking to hire? Just don't see the point to go around the world just to select 2 people for a job.

:)

[jimmyg]

Watch for aircraft order with Dubai airshow this April will give some clue as to future growth.

[Guided accordingly]

The simple answer...

FZ is desperate for F/o's (at least 30 I hear) due to upgrades, guys leaving and the recruitment system not meeting demand..

Crew planning have emailed explaining that Captains s are being rostered in the RHS to cover the shortfall. (True low cost !)

Maybe this explains why after over three years of operation the schedules are a complete and utter mess.

Gents, this is how it rolls at FZ.

[Guided accordingly]

6 more coming this year.

Rumour of another 50 at the airshow.

Some expansion predicted, but expect replacement the older spec aircraft on the present fleet.

[wellsey]

So just how bad is the roster? Coming from a place where 6 on 2 off ain't unusual and 4 or 5 sector days are the norm here.
I understand FD have flights all times of the day and early days followed by nights regularly, but arent the majority of your days 2 sectors?
An example of your recent rosters would be very helpful in making this difficult decision. My missus is keen on the move as she can work in Dubai too so our income would be reasonable. It would be nice to see her occasionally though!

Thanks.

[BritishGuy]

The Dubai Airshow is in November BTW...... 17th-21st Nov 2013.

[seven3heaven]

Another roster is issued and it's just more of the same. 3 nights in a row, starting with the shortest and getting progressively longer followed by 2 days off and then straight back into earlies. I don't have more than 2 days off together for the whole month. Unfortunately the manager of the department who issues these rosters has to be the most incompetent individual I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Then again, the office staff only get 2 days off a week so why should we get more days off than them.

If you do want to come out to the UAE I strongly advise you to apply to the big boys first. No job will ever be perfect but this place should be your last choice.

- You will fly between 850-900 hours a year with minimal days off
- You will fly rosters that would not get through a fatigue management system
- You will do layovers in third world countries
- You will fly into war zones
- You will fly deep night shifts returning mid/late morning

Doing all of the above knackered!

Don't get sucked into the trap of thinking that you will see more of your family here than what you would at Emirates because you are home after 99% of your duties. Think about it, 4/5 lengthy days on followed by 2 days off, finishing late on your last day and starting early on your first. On your first day off you are shattered and on the second day off you are already preparing yourself for the next duty.

A previous post mentioned that we mostly do 2 sector days/nights. On the whole that would be a true statement but you have to consider that the destinations are constantly challenging ( terrain/RT/incompetent dispatchers/difficult passengers ) Some of our 2 sector days consistently go into discretion, all of which takes its toll after a while. We do also have 4 sector duties even through the night, fancy that?

Do your homework on house prices if you are considering coming out here. You have been warned !!!

[Guided accordingly]

Do not make the mistake of comparing FZ to European LCC.

I suspect there are no european LCC's that operate :

1. 4 sector nights !
2. 3 consecutive MAX FDP nights, followed by single day off, then rest before starting over.
3. Ignore the 18 - 30 hrs rest principle.
4 Consistently depend on crew operating into discretion with no plan B.
5 deep nights, 2000 rpt , off duty after the sun comes up.
6 Call crew during rest, before the standby starts

[what-to-do]

Adding insult to injury, management now write to pilots to suggest pilot sickness levels are too high.........

I ain't no rocket scientist but even I can guess the probable cause here! :ugh:

[guasty]

hi guys,

but with this high demand of first officers, what about command courses?
What are min requirements by the company?
how long does it take for a first officer to be ready for that?

Thanks guys:ok:

[celester340]

hi guys i had earlier applied to flydubai but my application status said

"This is a previous and now in-active application"

I want to reapply and change a few details/update my application but the system doesnt let me do so....anyone know how i may work around this?

Thanks.

[RJ900NG]

I am in the same position.... need some help

[Non rev]

Did you call them?

[Iver]

Allow me to re-post the articulate post by seven3heaven regarding life at Flydubai again for those interested. Sound appealing? :eek::eek::eek: See below:


Another roster is issued and it's just more of the same. 3 nights in a row, starting with the shortest and getting progressively longer followed by 2 days off and then straight back into earlies. I don't have more than 2 days off together for the whole month. Unfortunately the manager of the department who issues these rosters has to be the most incompetent individual I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. Then again, the office staff only get 2 days off a week so why should we get more days off than them.

If you do want to come out to the UAE I strongly advise you to apply to the big boys first. No job will ever be perfect but this place should be your last choice.

- You will fly between 850-900 hours a year with minimal days off
- You will fly rosters that would not get through a fatigue management system
- You will do layovers in third world countries
- You will fly into war zones
- You will fly deep night shifts returning mid/late morning

Doing all of the above knackered!

Don't get sucked into the trap of thinking that you will see more of your family here than what you would at Emirates because you are home after 99% of your duties. Think about it, 4/5 lengthy days on followed by 2 days off, finishing late on your last day and starting early on your first. On your first day off you are shattered and on the second day off you are already preparing yourself for the next duty.

A previous post mentioned that we mostly do 2 sector days/nights. On the whole that would be a true statement but you have to consider that the destinations are constantly challenging ( terrain/RT/incompetent dispatchers/difficult passengers ) Some of our 2 sector days consistently go into discretion, all of which takes its toll after a while. We do also have 4 sector duties even through the night, fancy that?

Do your homework on house prices if you are considering coming out here. You have been warned !!!

[Non rev]

That is why I am applying too. These European pilots do not know how easy they have. American conditions are way worse. I have seen pilots complaining about night flying. I, here in states do stand ups, with only 3 hours of sleep at night. 100 hours a month. Luckily, I moved to domicile, otherwise,commuting is extra toll for only $40/hour!! Health insurance sucks and no living expenses. For us many, FLyDubai is going to be increase in QOL.

[what-to-do]

Don't make the general assumption that we're all European, we're not. People are posting their personal views with regard to FZ. Whether or not you accept or disagree is really down to you as an individual.

Nobody is saying don't apply to FZ, just look around first as there are better options. This way you have at least been given an honest perspective of what to expect if you make it here.

Trust me, it ain't just Europeans complaining and leaving FZ.

Best of luck guys.

[rj2driver]

Iver and seven,
Really? What kind of "other" options does a career regional FO with nothing but an RJ type and no jet PIC have?

[RandyBMC]

If you are having issues with the online application, you can always try this trick. Re-register a new user. You have to use a new email address. Let me know if that helps.

Randy

PS - I did stand-ups in the US. I worked at a regional flying turboprops. These rosters (at flydubai) are worse. Hopefully they are addressing it with PBS, but take heed of the warnings. Our COO is now in fix-it mode and has met with the guys from AIMS recently about the implementation process of PBS, so it is more than a rumor.

[rpmranger]

Randy,
I was hoping that might work, so I actually just tried to do another app with a "new" email address earlier tonight before your post. It wouldn't work. I guess it's based off our name or something. Still said I had an app on file already.(which is in-active, and won't help) :ugh:

[Iver]

Rj2driver,

I sympathize with your situation. In my opinion, knowledge is power and the first-hand testimonial is always a good thing.

From what I have heard, both Jet Blue and Spirit in your country are hiring high time RJ FOs (probably to lock them in with no PIC time) and the legacies will be ramping-up hiring soon that will increase slots at all other US airlines (as people leave for Delta and UAL). Perhaps more networking will improve your odds.

As for FlyDubai, it is good to get a variety of perspectives and know what to expect...

Good luck

[rj2driver]

@Iver...
I have flooded every possible opening with resumes already...Spirit, Jetblue, US Air, Frontier, Virgin, Fly Miami,etc. With most of the captains at the regional airlines trying to get a move on, I am not exactly a hot commodity, at least not right now. FD may suck, but the RJ life sucks too...for 4 times the pay I will be happy to endure 4 times the suckiness. If they give me the chance I am taking it.

[Iver]

Go for it! Let us know how it goes. It could be a great experience for you.

Cheers

[Old King Coal]

rj2driver: if your looking for 'four times the suckiness', I'm reliably informed that that sort of thing is most definitely available, for a modest fee, from vendors located within the numerous bars & hotels. Fwiw, this place is a veritable United Nations of Whores, wherein a truly staggering range of nationalities is available, with the Chinese (true to their form) being the cheapest, so I'm told ! ;)

Sodom-sur-Mer (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/16/dubai-sex-tourism-prostitution)

[seven3heaven]

I fully understand and appreciate that you guys working at regional airlines have a pretty rough ride with regards to pay and conditions. There are many guys out here from the US that I have had the pleasure of flying with and I have heard about the lifestyle.

Flydubai may turn out to be a good stepping stone for you, but that's all it will be. The biggest disappointment about FZ is that it could have been a great place to stay for a long time. Instead it's just another company that will fail to hold onto the majority of great pilots working here because it refuses to address issues like fatigue inducing rosters.

I really hope the COO addresses the issues as Randy mentions above, but until I see my rosters start to improve or a solid indication of a PBS system that will not be interfered with by the rostering master I will be looking for a way out after my bond has finished.

[cvflyer]

Hey Guys,
I have applied for a position in flybubai on Sunday, and still no decision was made about wehther I will have a chance to go for the interview or not.... That is all I need.
I have been flying the ATR-72/42 500 for about 4 years now. Salary, roostering and leave days are pretty good, but aviation is not taken seriously where I am, and I am desperate to fly jet... I really don't care about any of the mentioned disadvantages about flydubai, all I need is to fly a Jet in an airline where I can be proud of being a pilot...
Anyone knows if they are still hiring? Or any suggestions on any other airline in the world? Thanks a lot in advance.
By the way, I have 2600 hours total.
Safe landings

[rj2driver]

Just send in your application online and hopefully you get invited to the assessment/interview...

[jai]

quick question if anyone can help. i have 2200TT (300hrs short of their TT min of 2500) but i have 1300hrs rj time so more than their requirements. I intrested in applying but don't want to be rejected because of the Total time and have to wait 6 months to reapply since in 3 months i will get to 2500. I did send them an email but no answer yet, also planning to attend the vegas job fair and ask the question in person.
anyone can shed some light on this?

thanks!

[jimmyg]

You know funny thing after 30 years in this crazy business.

I am now wishing I could fly a ATR in New Guinea in shorts and a polo shirt.

[latetonite]

Jimmy, after 35 years in this business, if you find this job, just give me a call. :p

[cvflyer]

But I am guessing you have done it all by now Jimmy

[jimmyg]

Every flight is a reflection of what can be done better or different.

If I ever get to the point of "done it all" then time to hang um up.

[ironbutt57]

Same boat JimmyG, however the ATR is way to much work...day VFR in a C-208....2 sectors per day...:p:ok:

[jimmyg]

One just never knows in this business anymore.

My expectation was that I would spend the golden sunset years of my career with Pan Am, flying Pacific route, two trips a month making 300K a year and sitting on a multi million dollar pension fund.

Now I would be happy with a Twin Otter on floats with Jimmy Buffet playing in the background.

[Soft Altitude]

Without wanting to rain on anyone's parade, a friend with 11000 hours, 10500 commercial airline jet and heavy jet time, 2300 hrs on B737-300, 2600 hrs PIC TRI on A320 got rejected at the initial screening !!!
At least that is what it said on the FZ site that he applied through !

Definitely strange aviation times we are living in ...

[captkirk3000]

A friend of mine applied for a DEC and got rejected as well.
He has 11000TT, 7000 PIC glass jet alone...not sure how the screen works but I heard with 400 cadet program for locals, you would think they'd want experience guys in the left seat!

[jimmyg]

Same here, trust me this is a blessing. You do not want to get locked into a bad contract for 3 years.

The cycle is most hopefully on an upswing and by the end of 2013 or beginning of 2014 we might see some better contracts out their for experienced folks.

I am still on the lookout for that all elusive commuting contract with all the bells and whistles.

[Captain Biggles84]

Hi can someone set the record straight for me??

On the FZ website is quotes F/O pay rate, plus all the extras. There is no mention of housing allowance. But as i read through previous posts there is talk of a said allowance. Which is true?

Cheers

[RJ900NG]

does any one have the an e mail address for fly dubai HR department. Their online application is not working. Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[rj2driver]

Are you sure? Just tried it and seems to work fine...give it another try.

[long-gonner]

It looks like the salary on the website is quoting the total monthly sum on base pay+housing allowance+transportation allowance+monthly flight pay.

[Colonal Duke Lacross]

try [email protected]

HR manager,

regards

[Captain Biggles84]

Also,


Where are most FZ crews living in Dubai.. Which suburbs to they find the best in terms of affordability with what they are paid and lifestyle..

My rough math has the money not to bad, however if you were supporting wife and kids on it i can see how it would prob be chewed up pretty quick.(that's on F/O pay)
But a single guy or married and no kids with wife working. Could def make it work i feel. Someone correct me if I'm way off the mark.

[Baby Goat]

Hey guys,
I've been reading a lot of the posts here on this thread and it seems like FZ would be a position to take only as a last resort. My current job is not bad here in the US, but I entertained FZ for the 10+k/mo untaxed advertisement.

If I were to move I would bring my wife and it would just be her and I. We are both under 30. I had originally thought about fulfilling the 3 year contract, picking up another type, saving some money and coming back to the US.

I have my initial CTC interview in April and would just like some opinions (based on my situation) on whether you all think this would be a complete mistake for me or not (if hired). Also, my year 13' salary here will probably be around 65k, gross.

Any comments would be much appreciated!!:ok:

[Non rev]

What is your current background, Baby goat?

[rj2driver]

Goat, FD's pay is damn near double your salary man, I'd say go if it's just you and the wife....3 years rolls by pretty quick. I have an assessment coming up in May, do post some gouge please...

[Baby Goat]

Non Rev:

I've got about 3500TT, 1300 SIC heavy time and about 2000 total jet. No PIC jet but about 1000 PIC piston.

I'll post after the interview on how things went.

And BTW, my assessment is in May, not April.

[Vortac1]

+1 on the gouges...

:ok:

[had-enough]

Babygoat,

There is enough suitable feedback on this thread from Flydubai pilots for you to have a good insight into life here. If, as RJ2driver, you think the cash is too good to turn down then go for it. Unfortunately, the reality is that the FO salary doesn't quite go that far out here.

The take home salary (after housing) is around 24,000 to 26,000 AED average, which I is around 6,800 USD. Factor into that water and electricity + cooling fees (if appropriate) plus general living costs in Dubai (which is higher than the US) and you will be nearer the correct figure.

THEN, you have to consider the working conditions here. For example, very random rosters of 5 days on 1 day off, 4 days on, 2 days off. This will be a mixture of day flights and night flights all mixed together with no real concept of the fatigue levels being encountered by pilots. I understand that around 20% of the pilot work force is currently 'sick'. In addition, Captains are flying in the right seat due to a shortage of FO's....

Hope that helps?

[ualgrizz]

Goat, FD's pay is damn near double your salary man, I'd say go if it's just you and the wife....3 years rolls by pretty quick. I have an assessment coming up in May, do post some gouge please...

Easy Flicka...life is more than just money my friend. Do, do your due diligence before coming here...besides the cost of living in Dubai will render your salary much less than the "double your salary" you speak. For me, it was a good place to hang my hat for a few years while furloughed from an american legacy..."ual"grizz. FlyDubai, like everywhere has the good, the bad and the ugly. But, it's unfortunate the ugly seems to be getting uglier and the bad worse...schedules (absolute crazy 10 hours night flights followed by serious early morning shows and we are getting more of them) and housing allowances failing to keep up with the skyrocketing rents. As well, we go to some pretty austere places with not so nice guys lurking in the bushes. There is an "attempt" to make some changes to some of the ugly and bad, but this "attempt" has lingered for over 3 years. On the other hand, the good is very good...job security...it is easy to keep your nose clean...just do your job. Your colleagues are good people with very few exceptions. The place is growing like a bad weed...chances of moving to the left seat are good. You can save money in three years, but don't expect to be a wealthy man (in the generic sense) when you leave. There are plenty of posts about Dubai itself. Other than being a hot oven in the summer, it's not a bad place to live, but it's not the States and it's not your country...often times you are reminded...but, generally speaking you are welcomed. Most people that come here adapt well...keep your middle finger to yourself (sometimes that is hard to do when you drive) and be mindful of the customs and courtesies. There is a symposium in April with some FlyDubai reps...if you are considering this place you need to go. Listen to a guy named Randy...he will not blow smoke up your skirt and will tell it like it is.

"Good Luck"..."Taken" with Liam Nesson

[babisiliop]

The specific email [email protected] is not current
doen't go to recipient.
Any other good one?

[RandyBMC]

Try [email protected] - that goes to all of the appropriate people without inundating their personal e-mails.

[BurDubaiBob]

imho, ualgrizz has got it pretty much spot on! :ok:

Perhaps the only rider that I might add (and also as I wrote previously (http://www.pprune.org/7730585-post1628.html)) would be to suggest that a move from the RHS to the LHS might take a lot longer than some F/O's are either expecting or willing to wait for, what with a significant number of highly experienced F/O's already in place within the company.

Note well that Cmd upgrades within flydubai are done on the basis of seniority, followed by meritocracy.

If flydubai do not order some more aircraft (over and above the ones that have already been ordered and which are still be delivered), any F/O who joins the company today would be looking at a significant number of years before they get a chance at a Cmd upgrade, this being a situation which some flydubai F/O's are now realising and stuck with.

And even if flydubai do order some more aircraft, the timescale of their delivery might be such as to make any chance of a Cmd upgrade almost intangibly remote.

Do the math!

[rj2driver]

All of you guys that say it is so bad at FD should come over to the States, get a job at a regional that has better schedules and less misery, and you should then be OK when you get that $1,100 paycheck every two weeks. At this point some of us don't care for upgrading etc, we just want to be able to pay off student loans and save some damn money!!
Another thing: DXB is what you make of it, I have been there. If you want to live in a castle then be prepared to pay for it. It is possible to live well and modestly too. These assumptions that the cost of living will wipe out half your salary off the bat are misleading.
The challenge remains: I can get you an interview at my regional, $1,100 every couple of weeks, your choice of base - LAX, SFO, ORD etc
Now you do the math!

[captkirk3000]

The US regional lifestyle is very hard to deal being single and even worst if you're married with kids! However it's a great place to build flight time quickly!
Most of us hang in with hopes of getting hired with legacy carrier. Sad thing is, they consistently drag there feet on flying, shift flying between different regional carriers, they're notorious for laying off pilots every few years in big numbers and not to mention unions fighting with management for better pilot contracts (every US carrier period). Unless you get hired during the first hiring way, furlough and/or displacement are likely to happen when the cycle comes. Also It's not promised that every legacy we apply to will call!
Their are tons of RJ pilots here in the US and so the legacy carriers could pick, choose and refuse. As rj2driver said its to the point where we don't care about upgrade, just need money to pay bills and survive until a better opportunity presents itself.
As for me FZ has giving me that opportunity to interview and I'm going to take it!

[Flat Cap]

I don't think anyone here envies the life of the regional pilot in the US, undoubtedly the hours are long and the pay is dreadful, and if i had had to have taken that path to a pilot's job I may well have not bothered. However, getting into the whole "my career is more crap than yours" isn't really that constructive an argument.

What all the guys that are currently here in the Sandpit are trying to do is tell you the pure unvarnished truth, the sort of thing you won't get when you come here for interview, so when you arrive you do so with your eyes wide open because if you come thinking it's going to champagne and roses it will be a very rude shock.

If you read the negative stuff on this thread, and no it's not just belly-aching there's not much I've read here on this thread that isn't the truth (scout's honour), and you still feel your life will be better for you in DXB, then do please come, we will welcome you without reservation, the people I fly with are one of the redeeming features of life at FZ.

Living life well and modestly in DXB is harder than I thought and a recent report in the press here said 70% of ex-pat workers find it difficult or impossible to send money home. I've been here 3yrs and only in the last few months have I been able to save anything.

A modest 3 bed townhouse villa in an expat community will cost you about $40,000 to rent per year. Food costs are 20-30% more than I was paying back home. I know the package looks like king's ransom compared to the regionals, but you will burn through it at an alarming rate. Most people need about $10-15000 just to set themselves up over here, paying deposits, buying cars, furniture, paying the UAE government for an almost endless number of pieces of paper.

Best of luck
F-C

[ualgrizz]

RJ...your getting your panties is wad...take a shot of that Texas whiskey. If you come here try the Armenian Cognac...never tried until I got here...not too bad either. Nobody is advocating not coming...well, I take that back, I'm sure there are some. You were insinuating that a first officer is going to make a lot of money...."double your salary man, of 65 large...do it man" right??? I recently flew with a gent from the States, married, he is living pay check to pay check. I shared a spot with a mate of mine on arrival and he too was living pay check to pay check until he upgraded...now that's just anecdotal ain't it...but you've been to Dubai and know all about this stuff. Neither was living high off the hog. Now, I've been to Paris, Munich and lot's of other hot spots, but I don't have a clue about the cost of living. You have been to Dubai...when and for how long...you lived here in some sort of castle? The recession is no longer a player here my friend. I assure you, you will not be able to afford that castle. There are very few us that live in said luxury. It sounds like you have it rough wrt the cash flow and the balance sheet...I assume you have kicked your wife's a$$ out the door to work. She will not make much here...but there are exceptions. Just sayin' lower the expectations a bit...the coin is OK but I remind you again, you're not going to be wealthy. That reminds of my buddies that used to give me grief about my free $100,000 education (30 years ago). It was free alright, shoved up my a$$ in nickel at a time. Point being...that extra cash you are gonna make here is coming out of your hide.

Come on down...enjoy the place...just be aware. There are some people that love it. I say again it's not the States. I hope you get here. I am told the recruiting folks are targeting guys like you...young guns, with some jet time, little green around collar, perhaps having a tough time at home with the finances. Gets you wondering...don't it!

[Non rev]

Ualgrizzz, spending tons of time with kangrooooz eh mate?!

[what-to-do]

"These assumptions that the cost of living will wipe out half your salary off the bat are misleading"

Really? Based on what? I live here and totally agree with the other posts.

If you want to come, come! But don't please start telling people already here how it is. The fact is, the money is much better than back home, but so is the cost of living. My rent has just gone up by 30,000 AED, that's 8000 USD. Do you think my salary went up that much this year?

By they way, don't sound so angry, we're just giving you the facts!

[Fear_of_heights]

Can someone please share some info about the CTC in the UK I will be more than grateful! :ok:

[ironbird123]

Hey guys, does flydubai put you up when you start, and if so, for how long please?

Thanks

[long-gonner]

They don't put you up, they just don't pay you a housing allowance the first month on property but book a hotel for you while in training. If its changed someone please chime in.

Just did my 3rd all night flight, got home mid-morning so I fought rush hour traffic on both ends of the drive. Fell into bed exhausted and could not physically move until very late into the afternoon. Now I have two days off to recover and then start a string of 6am reports!

Lived the regional life in the US, did the 30k a year for most of it. Yes, the money is nice here, but as Grizzz so eloquently put it......you earn it a nickel at a time and at the end of it all it might not be worth it.

[latetonite]

Long- goner, yes, that's the way it is am afraid. At the end you choose your poison yourself. Try to come fly in Asia, a bit further, and discover not everything is like at home, or even close to it. Good luck anyway.

[rpmranger]

Still haven't seen any assessment dates for non 737 type rated guys yet..

Sure do wish they would open some up in the USA before those dates pass up. :ugh:

[Vortac1]

When I got my invitation to the assessment they did advise they will have more dates through the year. I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet...

[long-gonner]

Latetonite, thanks for the invite, im not interested in jobs any further into Asia. Yes, we all make our own choices, which is a very astute comment on a thread giving people information to make choices. Best of luck to you.

[pemac]

... a friend of mine was there yesterday, I think to get some updated information about the assessment soon.

Pemac

[Mrglass]

I just got done with the Dibden Manner assessments. I have limited time to write this so it's all bullet points:

- 10 in group, 3 culled after group exercises
- 7 made it through to Sims
- Mix of nationalities but at least 2 USA, 2 French, 1 Dutch, 1 German,
- Group exercises first, split into two groups of 5. Same as others have noted - we had the "stranded on the moon" scenario. Chip in, don't interrupt, use logic, work as a team, and participate.
- Other portion was 10 min presentation on how we can help FlyDubai stay top-dog during massive expansion.
- Computer sims were:
- Joystick crosshairs alone (left = left, right = right, stick aft = line up, stick fwd = line down)
- Joystick crosshairs + shapes/numbers
- Joystick corsshairs + shapes/numbers + counting backwards
- Took about 20 mins max to complete.
- I was upside down on the final test - i.e I had 7 hits and 8 Misses...thought I was done at that stage, but nailed the other computer tests so maybe they score all of them together.

- 1 on 1 interview Qs were:
- TMAAT you were in a crew that had bad CRM
- If you could go back how would you handle the situation differently?
- Tell me about an emergency where you had to trouble shoot and discover what the fault was yourself
- If you could do the situation over, would you do anything different?
- What will you bring to FlyDubai?
- Tell me about your airline history ( I queried if she meant my entire flying history, she said no...just airline...So I started with my cargo 'airline' experience then regional)
- What is your leadership style
- What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Swallow?

Sim:
- 737-800 full motion sim. Given profiles the night before. Memorize the 4 profiles:
- Normal T/O, ILS (before FAF), ILS (after FAF), Go-Around.
- The sim is a sim....what can i say...they are looking for briefings, CRM, leadership, standard procedures, nothing crazy.
- They obviously take into account what you have flown before...i have never flown a 737-800 (I fly an E145). I also did not bone-up on the 737 in flight sim or anything like that. Basically everything i know about it came from the profile and talking to a couple other candidates who were type rated but still in our 'non-typed' group for some reason or other.
- Just apply your pilot skills!
NOTE:
- You will get ZERO feedback. not even a wink wink, nudge nudge....my sim instructor didn't even look me in the eye when i shook his hand at the end, it was all very abrupt....that got me worried, but I passed any way so try not to read into it.

- Also, I thought I did a "reasonable" job in the sim....I didn't crash! But I did blunder some profile call outs, lost more than a bit of heading during the single engine section, but I held altitude and did a good raw data ILS....keep fighting, keep correcting, keep verbalizing, use your PM and don't give up or get despondent. I truly felt I had screwed myself after the Sim...but looks like they are taking into account the whole package your present and don't expect you to ace a heavy aircraft you've never sat in before...thank god.

- Also, Be a good PM when it's your turn, speak clearly and do things deliberately and in a manner that helps out your teammate. You're in it together but they do specifically warn against 'leading' your colleague if they are slacking or not getting something....it's a fine line, but you've got to help out where you can!



Tips:
- Wear a suit, one guy did not have a jacket and was sent home...not because of that, but maybe it was a contributing factor?

- Be personable with other candidates, don't stand out as the wacky loon of the group - just be yourself.

- Have your TMAAT answers ready to go....not canned...but refresh your personal experiences so they are fresh in your mind and can be applied to a range of questions

- If you stay at Dibden Manor ensure that you are polite to all staff, they are very nice people...especially Mandy!

Ultimately - Be yourself. Communicate well. Dress smart. Be eager but not desperate. Research the company, UAE, Culture.

Oh and bite your tongue when they describe Dubai as a growing "country"....I'm sure if you corrected her during the brief you would be fast-tracked for ejection!

Hope this all helps - Will post more when/if i get done with Dubai interview.


Addendum (Other thoughts):
- The assessors did not mention that they were looking for "improvement" in the computer tests, indeed I had completely forgotten about that aspect and just did my best on each one...and as stated got the worst score on the final test! So, logic would suggest that improvement was not the only thing they were concerned with.
- I do not know why the initial 3 were culled, everyone in the group was experienced (more so than me...see my hrs at the bottom...I was probably one of the lowest time guys in there). Must have been my devilish good looks and charm.
- Dibden Manor is very nice, but you feel a bit 'enclosed'...I bailed on the 2nd night and got an external hotel, primarily to study with cohorts, but also to not be the only guy left at the Manor.
- Assessors are tuned into pilot experience, stories and situations, I strongly advise you not to fabricate stories as they will probably detect this. My examples were not particularly exciting, but they were true and I used my verbal skills to show what I learned from each event. Use your words people!
- Lots of waiting around nervously to see if you are progressing - nothing you can do about this, just talk to the other candidates - odds are there are some interesting folks there not too unlike yourself.

Enjoy the day!


My humble experience: 3100TT, 1100Jet, 2000PIC, 2500ME

[Non rev]

Fantastic write up. Let us know about the final round! Congratulations. :D

[Eastern_Skyjets]

wow non rev with something positive to say for once :D

[ironbird123]

Thank you Mr G

[mamad]

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Swallow?

Are pilots supposed to know this ???????

[celester340]

Thanks mrglass,

could u please post some more details on accommodation? Do they arrange that for you? Or did you have to do that yourself?

Also i'll be landing at heathrow airport.... any idea how to make it to the CTC center?

Thank you.

[LNAV737]

Guys id anybody going for an assessment on 23rd of May ?

Cheers :D

[jetstreem]

Thank you mrglass. Very helpful indeed. I had been hearing horror stories of half the attendees being cut by lunchtime, for no apparent reason. So it's nice to have some hope!

I sincerely hope that CTC are willing to put all candidates that meet the expected standards through, and aren't simply filling quotas based on sim availability and type rating dates. That was what I was being lead to believe, but hopefully not the case.

I think the no feedback policy though is a disgrace in a professional flight training environment. The least that could be done for those who are sent home would be a generic email saying the areas of the test where they didn't make the grade. Aren't we all for progression and improvement through training? *Sigh* I doubt anything will change soon, so thanks for the heads up anyway.

JS

[Mrglass]

could u please post some more details on accommodation?
Yes....

Do they arrange that for you?
Negative, but they do offer rooms at Dibden Manor for 45GBP per night. Nice little rooms, free WIFI, communal iron/board, private bathroom & shower.

Or did you have to do that yourself?
Ultimately it's up to you. I stayed first night in Dibden then stayed in a nearby Premier Inn which was 60GBP per night. There are also Holiday Inn Express dotted about for about the same price...but remember to tag on at least 10-15GBP taxi fare each way if you take this option

Also i'll be landing at heathrow airport.... any idea how to make it to the CTC center?
Yes, once out of the arrival hall you'll see signs for the "central bus station" this is where all of the NATIONAL EXPRESS COACHES leave from. It will cost you ~21GBP (Maybe cheaper if you prebook online) to go from there to Southampton Bus station....from there you can get a taxi to Dibden Manor for about ~25GBP...make sure you have your directions as it is not a well known place among taxi drivers, but we got there no problem.....The National Express coaches are a good bet as they have electrical plugs, comfy seats and most importantly...WIFI! Well worth it.
National Express Coaches // Coach, Rail & Bus Travel Throughout The UK (http://www.nationalexpress.com)

Dibden Tip: That building has old-school English pluming and heating...it's like an oven in there! luckily it will be cold outside so crack your windows open the second you get in unless you like to sleep hot!

Hope this helps, best of luck

[Mrglass]

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Swallow?

Are pilots supposed to know this ???????

Yes, I heard that if you don't know the answer to this one you will not progress to the next stage. In fact I hear you will be cast into a gorge of eternal peril!

[celester340]

Legend you are! Thanks so much!

I sent them a mail on hotac at ctc aviation.....havent got a reply last 2 days which is why wanted to know a few more details on the staying bit.

Is that the correct email?

Regarding the computer tests.....any place i can get some practice? Or is it honestly not required? Just common sense?

Thanks again!!

Regards!

[Mrglass]

Expensive, but cockpitweb has similar tests....but 150GBP.

There is another which I can't recall right now but will find for you.

[Non rev]

WHAT IS THE AIRSPEED VELOCITY OF UNADEN SWALLOW?

For us ignorant Americans, what's the answer?!:{

[pemac]

Thank you Mr. G., nice and worthy report :ok: when you have to expect the results?

P.

[rj2driver]

I have a CTC assessment in a few weeks in the States, and I just realized that I have no idea what the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow is...now I'm worried. I googled it and came up with 10-14 meters per second, depending on whether the swallow is African or European. Is this really a serious interview question that they expect a serious answer to?

[what-to-do]

FFS :ugh:


Airspeed Velocity of a Swallow - YouTube

[iggle piggle]

They asked me what my favourite colour was.:)

[Mrglass]

Red....no Blue!

(Thank you "what-to-do")

[Deverwey1986]

Many thanks for the information Mr Glass, extremely helpfull.

Could you tell us how many of those 7 passed to Sim, eventually also passed the Sim itself?

[jetstreem]

Yeah I've just heard it is quite a popular question. Just had another friend get back who got asked it.

If you're searching for the airspeed velocity of a flying swallow, just make sure you get the right type. The continent they come from makes all the difference.

[ABBOT]

Is the swallow fat? This could seriously affect its profile drag and reduce its terminal velocity. Is it starved, this could feign area rule thus increasing its wetted area and increase its terminal velocity.

Obviously grooming is a major factor, a well groomed, thin Swallow with a large wetted area would certainly be faster than a scruffy tub of a Swallow.

We are of course making an assumption here, that they are both transiting the planet Earths atmosphere. Assumptions are dangerous, what if our fat and thin scruffy and dapper Swallows are not of this Earth? Could it be that this question is posed of two alien Swallows jumping into the vacuum of space and affected only by Newtonian physics! In that case drag would not be a factor at all!

The possible answers to this question are endless, but maybe I am looking a little bit to deep.

[flyingcamel]

Give an example of a time where the thread hurtled headlong into Python based silliness.

Can anyone apart from myself give an example of a time when one could not book a NTR assessment for love nor money?

Bad timing. Story of my life. :ok:

[DucknDive]

Think twice before signing a 3 year bond with FZ. I would never have done this looking back.
The roster is absolutely crap causing extrem fatigue still being disregarded by the company. No one cares about the crew as long as the flight departs on time day or night.
You fly to destinations that are high risk carrying military personnel and weapons.
You will be blocked for 3 years for EK and now FZ have requested a permanent ban for both EK and EY. This has unofficially been approved so forget joining EK or EY after joining FZ, you will be stuck.
Very bad atmosphere in FZ due all the disapointed employees and most crew are looking for other jobs.
Sadly nothing is being done by management......

You have been warned....

[KAG]

Why don' t you leave?

[Aerofoil]

I did leave...for exactly the reasons stated above. Duckndive is painting a very true picture about flydubai but for most people its not just as simple as 'why dont you leave'. Many have family in dubai and kids at school, also there is the problem of cheques being paid in advance for accomodation. So you can't just leave...unless you want a warrant out for your arrest for the next time you enter the gulf that is! 'Trapped' is a very accurate description of the place and of the setup at Flydubai.

[TyRod]

Hello guys,

I have about 2500 hours TT (2000 on atr), I'd like to know if flydubai is still looking for F/O. And if so what is the proportion of guys hired without being type rated? How many new FO are entering the airline each year?

Thanks


R

[KAG]

Airfoil: you might want to get in touch with DucknDive to explain him (her) how to start and implement the leaving process you seem to master, not being in jail because of it. :ok:

DucknDive: Airfoil might be your exit ticket and help you to end your misery. Good luck with that, keep us informed, I hope you can leave soon.

Tyrod: when airfoil will leave his seat you will have one more chance to get hired.

I love stories with good endings and everybody happy. ;)

[DucknDive]

KAG. Thanks for your consideration. Well I am leaving so don`t you worry!

I just find it amazing how some people are ok with whats being done by FZ, even happy. The place has changed lots from what it used to be and it seems to be a constant downhill slope.

[what-to-do]

KAG, is there anything you don't have an opinion on? 768 posts...... you need to get out more.

Just wondering, what's it like in your perfect World? :rolleyes:

[KAG]

What to do: you are probabely right.

DucknDive: good for you. Wish you the best with your next airline.

Most of them are steps for the next move after all... Hated (sometimes) but needed... Have seen that a lot in my (long) expat life. Keep positive though. Cheers.

[Sandrojet]

Hi Mrglass,

I just got my Status updated. It now says: Screening Passed.

I also got an email too, saying that for the moment there aren't any Sim slots open for non 737 Type-rated pilots. I was wondering if there is a way to at least do the interview first, and if passed, go home and wait until they can schedule the Sim ride.
Are there any math or tech questions?
Can you post the 4 profiles/call outs they gave you the day before the Sim?

Thank you,

Alex

[Mrglass]

Hello all,

Sorry I have/am extremely busy with a house move and various other things.

- No maths other than counting backwards mentally during computer task
- Profiles - i'll post if I get time in the future
- Doubt you would get a split interview. Looks like I got lucky getting a NTR interview slot - I've been lucky all my life though, what can I say. Watch that thing like a hawk: i.e 3 times a day until you see it pop up.

Other stuff:

Timeline:
- Got Dubai interview email 2 days after the Sim ride.
- Dubai interview is approx 25-30 days after England interview
- Will post when/if I get the nod for ground-school start date.

Again, apologies for lack of input recently.

[celester340]

congratulations mrglass thats great news!!

Just need a lil more help from u guys....i got an email saying they will not be able to accommodate me as they are full. So now i got to make my own arrangements for the staying part.

Was wondering if there are any small inns or Bread & Breakfast places close by? Anyone stayed close by in and around the area?

Thank you.

[High Energy]

For CTC selection your best option, by far, is Dale Farm House B&B and get a rental car. 7 min to CTC. Just google it.:ok:

[celester340]

thanks friend i already sent an email to dale farm house couple of days back...waiting for a response..... was hoping a few other places wud also be there as options.

Thank u.

[gcpilot8]

someone above in one of the posts said that after working for FZ, there is an unofficial ban to work for EK and the other carrier.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif

is this a scare tactics for new pilots from applying to FZ and increase chances of getting an offer letter by eliminating competition? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif can anyone confirm this rumor?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/bah.gif

[what-to-do]

gcpilot8

What rumour? This is a fact! This is being posted by current FZ pilots.

Go back through the thread, you'll find it mentioned many times.

[captkirk3000]

I spoke to an EK FO who was a former FZ CA and he told me that he was affected by the 3yr band on applying to EK from FZ. As for other ME carriers, their is no band.

[seven3heaven]

The EK ban is official. Its a 3 year block on you joining Emirates, although I would not be surprised if this get extended to 4 or even 5 years if they keep losing guys to Emirates. As for the other lot down the road its a bit more complicated, there is no official ban that I am aware of but I do believe that if you join them you have to move to Abu Dhabi and If you have any length of time left on your Dubai visa they would think twice about taking you on.

Something has definitely slowed down the rate of guys going to Abu Dhabi so it is either as I mentioned above or the two companies have come up with an agreement to stop guys going down there. It's all rumour and guess work at the moment but something is stemming the flow.

Instead of dirty tricks and behind closed door agreements all they need to do is sort out the T & C's and rosters and then people might actually want to stay here. Simple !!

[drach]

On my recent info I believe approx 3 of 7 would pass, then many are failing final interview. You could try joining NASA probably easier.
That said if you want hours it's the place to go, my friends are flying approx 80 90 every month, good command prospects. I believe 2 yrs is a good benchmark.
Good luck

[celester340]

hi guys,

can anyone share some more info on car rentals? where to hire them from and how much do they charge per day? Are they available at heathrow itself and in that case is it better to hire a car from there and drive down to dibden for the ctc assessment?

Mrglass?

Thanks.

[Mrglass]

Cars...

Yes just like any major airport there are car rental places at the airport, just follow the signs for rental cars.

Should cost between 30-50GBP per day depending on model.

[High Energy]

Cheapest I found was Enterprise. I alwas use them over any other. I paid less for a 4 day rental, incl petrol, for a brand new polo than a return ticket from LHR to Southampton with public transport...

[MD11Man]

drach,

Could you say anything more about how many fail the final interview and what they're looking for?

Thanks!

[celester340]

Thank you gents.

I'll have a look at enterprise.

Online...for a polo or a small car...for 3 nights...comes to about 70-80 pounds.

Just another question.....a UK license is not required? Will the license of my country do? I dont wanna book the car online only to find out later the dont accept foreign licences.

Thanks!

[Non rev]

^^^^^ just call them dude. Do you not know how to research?

[celester340]

thanks non rev..... remember its a forum....information and experiences are shared.... i cant call every car rental service in the UK.... i dont live there...and i cant afford to be put on hold for 10 min to speak to a representative.....

Ive checked the websites too..... drivers licences are not specified.....

Im gonna be flying for 20 hours to get to LHR...so give me a break if im trying to make my life a little more easier when i land.

Thanks..... if u have hired a car from LHR.....can u share that experience? Its easier to work on recomendations from fellow ppruners.

Thanks so much :-)

[MD11Man]

celester340,

I don't know where you are from, but I have never had any problems getting a car in the UK - with my (European) non British license.

Maybe this link will help; Car Rental in the UK | Europe | USA Car Hire - Alamo Rent A Car (http://www.alamo.co.uk/rentalpolicies/740/uk/GB), look under license requirements. (not advertising alamo, but they have been good for me in the past)

Good luck!

[celester340]

Thank u MD11, I'm from india....I remember my license was not accepted in the US..... even an international license was only valid for a month there. (instead of the general year)

I have looked at alamo,sixt,national,hertz,europcar to name a few....

Luckily my ATPL is recognized by ICAO :)

Thanks so much! Regards.

[RandyBMC]

The best advice I can give regarding the final interview at flydubai (and it should help at the CTC final interview as well) is to organize your own past aviation experiences.

The interviews are based on your stories - "give us an example" or "tell us about a time" - so the better you know those stories and have thought about your past the better.

I would have several stories prepared, focusing on the details. Be able to talk about specifics rather than generalizations. Make sure you are telling the truth too, as it is really easy to spot a lie or even an embellishment. Your stories should include what you were flying, where you were flying to, what position you were in, who was pilot flying and pilot monitoring, etc.

Once you have your stories laid out, try to anticipate which stories would fit best for which competencies they display. Hit the big ones, like communication skills, teamwork, problem solving, achieving goals, etc. If you can, have at least two stories per topic you come up with. Invariably, you will use a story that better suits the next question you are asked (which is why it helps to have two).

Also, what did you learn from the experience, and what might you do differently having gone through it? Those are pretty typical follow ups in any interview (not just flydubai).

Be yourself! Having this organization of your experiences will help you be more relaxed so we can see you for who you really are (hopefully that is a good thing!).

Hope that helps,
Randy

[jetstreem]

Randy,

That REALLY helps. Thank you.

JS

[Sandrojet]

Hi RandyBMC,

I passed the first screening, now I'm trying to schedule my Sim Ride.On my app. page it only shows slots for Type-rated 737 pilots. Do you have any idea when they might start opening Sim slots for non type-rated pilots? I noted that there are 2 locations available for the Sim, Las Vegas and London. I live in San Francisco and I would love to do my interview and Sim in Las Vegas! Are they doing interviews in other locations?

Thank you,

Alex

[celester340]

Hello again,

Mrglass or anyone for that matter....can u please post something on the sim profile in detail? That CTC has provided?

Thank you.

[NinER fIveR]

Raw data takeoff and climb with a couple of radial intercepts. Vectors for downwind to prepare an ILS. Fly it down to minima, no runway, go around. Engine failure on the go. Recall items (if necessary), clean up and stabilize the aircraft and you are done.

I felt it was not about perfect manual flying as it was about making good decisions and being organized while flying manually. Still you have to scan and maintain smooth control inputs and corrections.

Those with type ratings will also have to demonstrate how to prep and manage a LNAV/VNAV approach with full automation. Both exercises can be done in about 45-60 mins.

Everything including checklists, charts and even approximate pitch and power settings are given to you the night before in a briefing pack (after you have passed the day 1 events). If you follow the briefing pack and listen to the SFI/SFE closely you will be fine.

Good luck :ok:

[celester340]

Thank you so much mate. Just wanted to know for the guys who havent flown the 737,how would one know how to tune the radios/use the ND for the radial intercept? Are the instructions given like u said the previous night along with the charts/checklists/power pitch settings?

Thanks again so much.

[doubletap]

.....soooooooo, a candidate who needs to be told how to tune a radio interviewed by somebody who has had a command for 10 minutes. All looking good for those marginal Kathmandu approaches. :ok:

[Otto Throttle]

celester,

Relax dude. The sim briefing pack is fairly basic. It lets you get a general idea of the profiles and the standard calls to be used in the exercise. You get a full briefing beforehand with the TRE, which lasts up to 90 mins. It's very comprehensive, and talks through the profiles in detail, with some handy tips as to how to manage each stage and the flying characteristics of the a/c. The briefing pack doesn't cover everything you need to know, but the brief does.

In the sim, you will be shown the location and operation of all relevant switches and equipment. It is a very basic exercise, and therefore only uses a very limited amount of the a/c systems. It's simple enough to operate as required.

I would suggest if you are still awaiting the assessment phase, spend your time concentrating on that. I understand far more fail to make the grade on day 1, than fail in the sim.

[celester340]

thats very sweet of u otto..... thank u so much for the indepth brief....puts the nerves to rest for a bit :) much appreciated thanks!

[Ethiopia]

Is there any way to delete a very old application in order to make a new one?

[pemac]

In addition to the nice report from Mr. G. here some further aspects of the Apr.10th-Assessment, sorry for being a little bit late but my mate didn't pass the test unfortunately and I didn't want to bother him with Test-Information.

Though you've got the option to choose TypRated or Non Typerated on the Online-Application process (my buddy is not typerated and he clicked it accordingly) he faced a mixed (half by half) group of rated and nonrated guys.

===============

Test starts with presentation through FlyDubai-Women: "We do fly in dangerous areas such es Iraq, places of war etc.!"
Group of 10 was divided in a blue and red part. All blue were native speaker, the red one non natives. Exemption in the red group was a french guy but with almost 10 years experience in UK.

Red group (native speaking): 2 USA (with On-Site-Experience in Abu Dhabi), 3 UK, 1 FR

Blue group: 2 NL, 1 South American, 1 IT, 1 GER

It starts with the Apt.Test (Supervisory staff: "It's not so important!!"), Multicapacity etc. Only one (rated) 90sec-Run following introduction.

2 Team-Exercises

1) 4 points for discussion: Challenges right now, oportunities for Fly Dubai, what can crews do to make FD grow, (can't remember the 4th point)

2) NASA-Game: You've landed at the moon, you've got a list with 10 items, create a ranking, 5min before given time ended, they surprised with 2nd list and 5 further items (powdered milk, bottle of water etc.)

Lunchtime:

4 of the red group are allowed to continue

4 of the blue group were sent home. My buddy was in the blue and became blue

=== I'm not a native speaker, if you find any linguistic errors, you may keep it ===

[skysod]

They classified Americans as native English speakers?!!!:}

[BritishGuy]

Be safe out there.....

US Civilian Cargo operator (National Air Cargo) down in Bagram.

BBC News - Seven killed in US cargo plane crash at Afghan base (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-22347199)

[bernyfly]

hi pemac, thx for the update.:ok: